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[00:11:07] <jerware> Error: Same or higher version of .NET Framework 4 has already been installed on this computer.
[00:11:10] <jerware> But AVR Studio insists on installing .NET 4
[00:14:12] <d-rock> Welcome to .Net hell
[00:25:26] <Xark> For extra fun Windows update will start hassling you for .NET 4.1 too. :)
[00:25:40] * Xark notes that is a slow ass update...
[00:26:41] <jerware> Atmel needs to get on the ball and support linux.
[00:27:12] <d-rock> +100
[00:31:42] <Casper> jerware: why do you want avrstudio on linux when you have vim and gcc?
[00:31:55] <Xark> The compiler is already on Linux (came from there...)
[00:32:53] <jerware> Casper: It has a feature to debug the avr and step through the code wine the avr chip is running.
[00:33:00] <jerware> while*
[00:33:11] <jerware> not a simulator.
[00:33:57] <Casper> ah the debugwire that I never used
[00:34:01] <jerware> Derek Molloy does it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plJf0r7IcWc
[00:41:51] * Xark wonders about https://elementztechblog.wordpress.com/2014/11/09/debugging-avr-ics-using-jtagice-and-eclipse-in-linux/
[00:44:44] <jerware> isn't avr-gdb a simulator ?
[00:45:33] <Xark> I think it is a debugger. Can probably debug real HW (with proper target remote) and simulator.
[00:46:17] <Xark> Those instructions clearly enable "Eclipse C/C++ GDB Hardware Debugging".
[02:46:46] <Tekkkz> Morning!
[02:48:14] <Tekkkz> Does anyone know a tutorial for How to use the USB interface on the atmega32u4?
[03:04:26] <malinus> Tekkkz: tutorial? idk. People just usually download the LUFA usb framework, and do w/e they wanted to do. But if you want, you can read the usb specification, and the atmega datasheet.
[03:08:21] <Tekkkz> lufa ok
[03:08:23] <Tekkkz> thx
[03:15:13] <malinus> Tekkkz: yep. The documentation should be enough. What exactly do you want to do with the usb?
[03:30:53] <Tekkkz> i wanna send data to it and recieve data from it
[03:34:28] <malinus> Tekkkz: you probably want the virtual serial then
[03:38:05] <Tekkkz> ?
[03:38:20] <malinus> you
[03:38:22] <malinus> want
[03:38:23] <malinus> the
[03:38:26] <malinus> virtual serial
[03:38:30] <malinus> probably
[03:38:37] <Tekkkz> what is it?
[03:39:37] <malinus> Tekkkz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port#.22Virtual.22_serial_ports
[03:41:44] <Tekkkz> yes
[03:41:47] <Tekkkz> i need this
[03:41:55] <Tekkkz> easy to comunicate with python for example
[03:41:59] <Tekkkz> but how to do this?
[03:42:49] <malinus> Tekkkz: use the virtual serial class from LUFA
[03:43:41] <Tekkkz> okay ill have a look later, now im away, cu
[04:46:09] <specing> Tekkkz 100% spoon fed
[04:47:52] <Tekkkz> what?
[04:48:54] <specing> do you want me to spoon feed you on what spoon feeding means?
[05:00:56] <Tekkkz> i know what it means
[05:01:06] <Tekkkz> and why are you saying this?
[07:11:03] <Rasmus_> Hello, can i get help with AVR micro-controller?
[07:12:35] <specing> perhaps
[07:14:22] <Rasmus_> Can i use the NE567 as a ADC or not?
[07:14:42] <malinus> Rasmus_: I thought you wanted help with avr mcu?
[07:14:47] <malinus> :)
[07:15:52] <Rasmus_> Malinus_ : no i just ask about that because i want to start a mini project
[07:17:40] <specing> avrs have 1MSPS adc built in
[07:17:59] <malinus> Rasmus_: what research have you done before asking this question?
[07:20:23] <Rasmus_> I read a book called Programming AVR microcontrollers in C.
[07:21:35] <malinus> Rasmus_: but what makes you ask that very vague question? Do you want us to read the datasheet of NE567 for you?
[07:23:05] <malinus> Rasmus_: let me tell you how this usually work. You do some research, then you try some stuff, google some more, try some more. If you still can't figure it out, you can ask the specific question, explaining everything you tried and what is wrong. :)
[07:23:14] <malinus> rip
[07:23:22] <Willd> And he was never to be seen again.
[07:24:37] <specing> march newbie squash count: 1
[10:12:38] <Tekkkz> haha
[10:12:38] <Tekkkz> you are really polite to newcommers
[10:24:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> only idiots.
[10:30:53] <Tekkkz> hm you are right, most of them come into the irc and asking google questions and want to get the code
[10:32:06] <Tekkkz> but i must also mention that since arduino is on the market many young "engineers" so students with 16-20 years are there and it is ofc difficult for them to read the datasheets
[10:32:17] <twnqx> lol
[10:32:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> the ones that bother me most are those who come in, ask a question, then get pissed and leave less than 2 minutes after asking.
[10:32:44] <Tekkkz> hm ok
[10:32:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is not difficult for them to read the datasheets
[10:33:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is difficult for them to comprehend the data in the datasheets
[10:33:13] <twnqx> if they do not understand a detail in a datasheet, it's ok to ask for clarification
[10:33:21] <Tekkkz> yes
[10:33:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> there really are no big words that you don't learn by at least 10th grade in most datasheets.
[10:33:23] <Tekkkz> but normally
[10:33:35] <Tekkkz> they dont read the datasheets
[10:33:37] <Tekkkz> :D
[10:33:47] <aczid> can confirm I didn't read the datasheet at that age :P
[10:33:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> exactly.
[10:33:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> I did!
[10:33:56] <Tekkkz> Lambda_Aurigae: yes, you are right, i can also read them, but like you see, my english is bad
[10:33:57] <twnqx> i didn't
[10:34:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was reading datasheets when I was 12.
[10:34:06] <aczid> only read some asm and then it all made sense :P
[10:34:06] <twnqx> 'cause there was no internet to get them when i was that age.
[10:34:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, the TTL databook but close enough.
[10:34:24] <Tekkkz> im 16 and i learned to handle datasheets
[10:34:31] <twnqx> i think i bought 2 or 3 datasheets
[10:34:37] <twnqx> for several DM each
[10:34:41] <Tekkkz> haah
[10:34:43] <Tekkkz> germany!!
[10:34:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> back in the day, when I was really getting into electronics, you could get the datasheets from the manufacturers. Often for free in big books with all their products in them.
[10:35:03] <twnqx> as a kid?
[10:35:04] <twnqx> lol
[10:35:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> just had to call or write.
[10:35:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes.
[10:35:27] <twnqx> i had some books about 74xx too
[10:35:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> I still have some of my TI books that they sent me when I was 12 to 14.
[10:35:53] <aczid> I would have killed for some mcu's at that age :)
[10:36:03] <aczid> I had a ti83 though, which was nice
[10:36:03] <twnqx> just that there were none
[10:36:08] <twnqx> well, i had a c128
[10:36:09] <Tekkkz> hm, what a thanks that we have the internet today
[10:36:09] <Tekkkz> or no, not thanks, what is glück?
[10:36:15] <twnqx> that had 6510+z80
[10:36:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> didn't have MCUs at that time.
[10:36:23] <twnqx> luck?
[10:36:23] <Tekkkz> im too im too lazy to look it up
[10:36:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> but did have an ALU.
[10:36:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> and lots of other logic chips.
[10:36:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> https://i.imgur.com/tO4TgCjh.jpg
[10:36:40] <twnqx> but yes, we are lucky we have the sources now
[10:36:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> for those of you squeamish, don't look.
[10:36:54] <twnqx> lol
[10:37:26] <Tekkkz> uhh
[10:37:29] <Tekkkz> haha
[10:37:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> should be captioned, "Oops. Guess we broke the internet."
[10:37:52] <Tekkkz> hehe
[10:37:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> looks like both copper and fiber lines in that hole...well, they were in that hole..
[10:38:02] <twnqx> directly crossposted to german network operators group
[10:38:10] <aczid> oh man that pic hurts D:
[10:38:15] <Tekkkz> btw, which controllers are you favourites?
[10:38:35] <twnqx> i never dealt with anything but avr in my own designs so far
[10:38:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tekkkz, depends on the job....avr, pic32, 8052, in that order generally.
[10:38:43] <twnqx> but i want to get to arm :X
[10:38:53] <Tekkkz> jajaja, i meant which avrs
[10:38:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh..
[10:39:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmega1284p all the way!
[10:39:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's big,
[10:39:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> it has lots of stuff!
[10:39:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> and lots of sram!
[10:39:20] <specing> stm32 is cheaper
[10:39:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> 16K of sram.
[10:39:24] <Tekkkz> hm yes
[10:39:26] <Tekkkz> i bought an atmega32u4 now
[10:39:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> specing, a lot of things are cheaper,
[10:39:30] <Tekkkz> cause i want to test the usb
[10:39:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> unless you get free samples.
[10:39:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> which, I can get stm32 as well.
[10:39:48] <specing> stm32's features start when avr ones end
[10:39:53] <Tekkkz> +stm32
[10:40:11] <specing> 180 Mhz cores, 8+ UARTs, 10+ timers, dual ADC, dual DAC, ...
[10:40:15] <Tekkkz> i have an stm32f4 discovery board here, bought it some time ago bec. i wanted to test arm
[10:40:15] <Tekkkz> BUT!!
[10:40:18] <Tekkkz> i dont like it
[10:40:20] <specing> for much the same price
[10:40:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> but it's difficult to stick an stm32 chip on a solderless breadboard and play with it.
[10:40:33] <twnqx> depends all on the purpose
[10:40:38] <specing> true
[10:40:39] <Tekkkz> the programming way of avr's is much more cooler than for stm
[10:40:46] <twnqx> though mega*u* are my new general favourite
[10:40:55] <Tekkkz> yep
[10:40:56] <Tekkkz> mine too
[10:41:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, if they only came in a dip package I would dump most pic stuff.
[10:41:16] <Tekkkz> haha
[10:41:17] <twnqx> i don't care about package
[10:41:39] <specing> the MIPS pics?
[10:41:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> I do...I work with kids a lot and having 10 and 12 year olds soldering SMT chips is not something I want to look at.
[10:41:44] <Tekkkz> i bought the atmega32u4 breakout, its nice and cheap and fully configured
[10:41:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> specing, yeah...love those things.
[10:41:50] <twnqx> well yes
[10:41:55] <twnqx> i can understand that
[10:42:03] <Tekkkz> hm soldering smt as 16 years old is no problem
[10:42:10] <twnqx> but you could just use breakout boards to large DIPs?
[10:42:31] <twnqx> Tekkkz: i am sure 12year olds can learn to do that as well
[10:42:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> I talked to a rep at microchip a while back and they just sent me a care package with 40 different chips in it, including some serial srams, serial eeproms, driver chips, and 32bit pics
[10:42:37] <twnqx> but it still takes some expereicnce
[10:42:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, then I would have to buy the boards.
[10:42:55] <specing> Lambda_Aurigae: wow
[10:43:08] <specing> Lambda_Aurigae: how are those PICs programmed?
[10:43:16] <specing> JTAG or that shitty icsp
[10:43:18] <Tekkkz> you got the chips for free?
[10:43:20] <twnqx> Lambda_Aurigae: 20 pieces 15$?
[10:43:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> I throw a USB bootloader on them.
[10:43:24] <twnqx> or so
[10:43:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have a pickit3
[10:43:41] <Tekkkz> btw
[10:43:49] <Tekkkz> never got it: what are the main differences between avr and pic?
[10:44:00] <Tekkkz> there are so much discussions
[10:44:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> avr is one clock per instruction(for most things)
[10:44:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic is 4 clocks per instruction.
[10:44:11] <twnqx> wha
[10:44:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic32 is a 32bit mips core that is not pic but has pic peripherals.
[10:44:19] <twnqx> really? but pipelined, i hope?
[10:44:26] <Tekkkz> ok
[10:44:32] <twnqx> pic is 16 bit
[10:44:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, somewhat pipelined...avr has better pipeline system.
[10:44:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, some are...pic24 is 16bit.
[10:44:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic18 is 8bit
[10:44:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> as is pic16 and pic12
[10:44:55] <twnqx> pics mostly have software rerroutable I/O, as in you can decide which pin has a function
[10:44:58] <twnqx> oh?
[10:44:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> dspic is 16bit.
[10:45:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> twnqx, on the newer ones, yes, it is called peripheral pin select..
[10:45:18] <Tekkkz> twnqx: sounds nice
[10:45:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> with newer usb pic chips you don't need a crystal either.
[10:45:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> they have a pll onboard that can sync the processor clock to the usb clock.
[10:45:50] <Tekkkz> maybe thats the only useful stuff on a pic :D
[10:45:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> so you can run them on USB with the internal RC oscillator.
[10:46:03] <Tekkkz> uhh
[10:46:12] <twnqx> dunno, generally my main reason to prefer AVR is the fact that i am familiar with them
[10:46:22] <Tekkkz> yes
[10:46:30] <twnqx> and that i know the toolchain works on linux :3
[10:46:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> the pic32mx270f256b has that..which is what I just got...as well as 64K of sram and 256K of flash in a 28pin dip package.
[10:46:46] <twnqx> though i keep running into gcc corner cases
[10:46:54] <twnqx> when it comes to optimization.
[10:47:25] <Tekkkz> he standard bootloader on the atmega32u4 is DFU right?
[10:48:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tekkkz, I think so.
[10:48:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is a flip program for linux to work with the dfu bootloader too.
[10:49:04] <Tekkkz> mh i prefere avrdude
[10:49:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> for the pic32, the xc32 compiler is based on gcc and it is open source.
[10:49:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> although compiling it is a royal bitch.
[10:49:27] <Tekkkz> im away, see you later, bye bye
[10:50:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> I still prefer AVR for its simplicity over any of the PIC line.
[10:50:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> the fact that my first ever avr programmer still works with every chip I use is a plus.
[10:50:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> and that is over 10 years old.
[10:50:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> can't say the same for any pic programmer.
[13:58:15] <Juris4cm> hello
[13:58:17] <Juris4cm> is this proper way to transfer or divide energies between capacitors with smallest loss?
[13:58:24] <Juris4cm> http://imgur.com/0C9A98j
[14:04:23] <malinus> Juris4cm: you might get more help on ##electronics. What are you making?
[14:04:35] <Juris4cm> I get ban there
[14:04:41] <Juris4cm> just want to transfer energy
[14:04:53] <malinus> hahaha
[14:05:06] <malinus> How is it related to avr?
[14:05:19] <malinus> (I was just lauging at the ban :P)
[14:05:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> well, the coil will short out the capacitors and drop them to 0V
[14:05:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you get rid of the coil and one switch then when you close the other switch the two capacitors will even out their charge.
[14:05:54] <Juris4cm> I will do it with avr :D
[14:06:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> so if one has 5V and the other has 0V then the two will end up with 2.5V...minus some loss to resistance and general electricity-goes-byebye
[14:06:30] <Juris4cm> http://www.av8n.com/physics/capacitor-transfer.htm
[14:06:56] <Juris4cm> I think it should work
[14:07:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[14:07:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you go with that, sure.
[14:07:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you can close one switch, open it at the right time, then close the other at the right time then open the other at the right time.
[14:08:19] <Juris4cm> thats why I ask in AVR
[14:08:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you don't have rather large capacitors and coil then those times are going to be in the uS timeframe at best.
[14:08:51] <Juris4cm> ok I will try with diode in first
[14:08:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't know what kind of switches you are looking to use but anything mechanical is not going to be anywhere near fast enough.
[14:09:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> try what with diode?
[14:09:06] <Juris4cm> If I will get more charge then it will be good
[14:09:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> how do you get more charge?
[14:09:18] <Juris4cm> 2 mosfets
[14:09:35] <Juris4cm> Lambda_Aurigae try to calculate energy loss in capacitor transfer
[14:09:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> all the diode does is drops the voltage somewhat one direction and keeps it from flowing the other.
[14:09:56] <Juris4cm> Lambda_Aurigae in link is schematic with diode
[14:10:14] <Juris4cm> I think you are not fameus with 2 capacitor problem
[14:10:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> not just a diode.
[14:10:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> do you know what is special about that diode?
[14:10:42] <Juris4cm> there is nothing special
[14:10:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> bullshit.
[14:10:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> that is a zener diode.
[14:10:53] <Juris4cm> it just allows current to one direction
[14:10:55] <Juris4cm> I know
[14:10:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> not a regular old diode.
[14:11:00] <Juris4cm> but I can use diode
[14:11:18] <Juris4cm> capacitor will charge in such way that it will be opposite to diode
[14:11:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> no..it allows current to flow in one direction like any diode...back current will flow if the voltage reaches its breakdown voltage level.
[14:11:37] <Juris4cm> man I know electronics
[14:11:44] <Juris4cm> dont learn me basics
[14:11:45] <markm_> ok so im a little confused, the atmega32u4 documentation states only that the status register is not pushed when an interrupt occurs so you have to do that yoruself. what about the general purpose registers? are those pushed automatically? (i hope the freek not)
[14:11:48] <markm_> it doesnt say
[14:12:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> Juris4cm, then why are you asking about basics?
[14:12:29] <Juris4cm> because you don't know problem
[14:12:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> markm_, I don't believe so.
[14:12:40] <Juris4cm> I am not asking about basics
[14:12:48] <Juris4cm> I asking how to not lose energy
[14:12:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> Juris4cm, it's not a problem...it is an exercise in basic electronics but no problem.
[14:13:11] <markm_> Lambda_Aurigae, i kind of need to know for sure, it dictates how much space i leave for the stack lol
[14:13:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> markm_, let me look at a datasheet...a minute.
[14:13:48] <Juris4cm> Lambda_Aurigae so you know most efficient way to transfer energy between capacitors?
[14:14:06] <markm_> Lambda_Aurigae, thats that im looking at, unless that factoid is buried somewhere else i cant see it lol
[14:14:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> yes...let an analog electronics expert do it.
[14:17:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> only the program counter is pushed onto the stack by the AVR itself.
[14:17:38] <markm_> Lambda_Aurigae, tyvm, thats what i HOPED the answer would be lol
[14:17:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> however, if you are using avr-gcc, the interrupt handlers do lots more than that.
[14:17:46] <markm_> no. im doing 100% pure assembler
[14:17:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> then only the PC.
[14:18:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm looking at Interrupt response time
[14:18:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> section 7.7.1 in the atmega1284p datasheet.
[14:18:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> but should be the same for any 8bit AVR core.
[14:18:24] <markm_> i think i knew this a few years ago lol... been a while since i worked on avr
[14:18:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> response time takes 4 clock cycles during which time the PC is pushed onto the stack.
[14:18:49] <markm_> yes it will be the same, if you found it there i TRUST atmel not to bugger things up by making this processor different :)
[14:19:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's under the avr cpu core section of your datasheet.
[14:19:33] <markm_> tyty, it should also be under the INTERRUPT section. i hate the way all the relevant information is scattered to the 4 corners of the documents like this
[14:19:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> nope..it's under the cpu core.
[14:19:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> but there is a link under the interrupt section to the cpu core section.
[14:19:57] <markm_> i mean it should "also" be mentioned in the interrupt section
[14:20:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> first paragraph/section of the interrupt...for a general explanation of the avr interrupt handling refer to reset and interrupt handling on page 16.
[14:20:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> it is even a hot link.
[14:21:53] <markm_> which works great if you dont deliberately disable links in pdf files for security reasons lol
[14:22:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> links inside should still work
[14:22:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> never bothered to disable them.
[14:26:49] <Juris4cm> it WORKS! :D
[14:29:40] <hje841> in minicom for Linux, how do I issue a 'connect' command?
[14:30:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> what is a connect command?
[14:31:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> minicom is just a dumb terminal...it connects to a serial or character device and allows you to see what is coming through and send data back by typing.
[14:31:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> alt-z or crtl-a z will give you online help.
[14:32:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> one or the other, depending on the version/build/os/day of week it was built.
[14:32:25] <hje841> hmm.. it says 'disconnected' at the bottom and I don't see any way to change that
[14:32:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> aahh...so you aren't wanting to issue a connect command...you want to connect to a device.
[14:33:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> start minicom in configuration mode and set it up...then start it normally and it will go through the process.
[14:33:46] <hje841> exactly. and I have been changing to many settings that I'm beginning to think that there was a 'connect' command.
[14:34:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> I recommend going through one of the seventeen dozen minicom tutorials out there.
[14:34:23] <hje841> I've tried moserial (a gtk serial version) an there is a 'connect' button
[14:34:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://openmaniak.com/minicom.php
[14:34:49] <hje841> thanks
[14:34:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.linux-tutorial.info/modules.php?name=Howto&pagename=Remote-Serial-Console-HOWTO/modem-minicom.html
[14:35:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> the first two links for a google search of minicom tutorial
[14:37:24] <hje841> I wonder if there's any difference in minicom if it's on /dev/ttyS0 and /dev/ttyUSB0
[14:41:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> not sure.
[14:41:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> never used it myself.
[14:42:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> or, rather, not in a long time and never with usb serial adapters.
[14:45:32] <malinus> hje841: iirc you just give the port and bauderate
[14:45:34] <hje841> I'm on the Arduino platform, so that's what I have to deal with
[14:46:14] <malinus> hje841: or try picocom, I think I had more luck with that one
[14:46:39] <malinus> the default setting of picocom should work
[14:46:50] <malinus> I think :)
[14:47:56] <hje841> thanks, I'll give it a go
[14:48:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> kermit for the win!
[14:49:29] * Lambda_Aurigae pats his amber screen vt102 terminal.
[14:49:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> or we go old school.
[14:51:03] <hje841> picocom says 'terminal ready' as the last output when I start it. is it supposed to give more?
[14:51:31] <malinus> I don't remember sorry
[14:51:39] <malinus> I usually look those things up when I need them
[14:51:50] <hje841> okay, I'll try google a bit
[14:52:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> what more should it say? "Hello, it looks like I'm connected to an ardweeny. Let's play."
[14:55:02] <hje841> I was kind of expecting a '$>' kind of prompt
[14:56:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> does the device at the other end provide a prompt?
[14:56:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> because picocom is just a terminal program...a dumb terminal.
[14:56:34] <hje841> but it seems to work in a different way. it only outputs the data from my device. I have implemented a 'message++'-echo so when I put in 'e' picocom gives me 'f'
[14:56:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> it would be like connecting a vt100 to the serial port of the device.
[14:56:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> sounds like local echo is turned off.
[14:57:13] <hje841> you have a point
[14:57:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> to turn on local echo you use --echo or -c at the command line.
[14:58:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> man picocom
[14:58:21] <hje841> now that works :)
[14:58:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> is a wonderful thing.
[14:58:44] <hje841> yeah, that's my next order of business :)
[14:59:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> man picocom then /local echo
[14:59:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> will take you right to it.
[15:02:32] <zerowidth> Lambda_Aurigae: oh duh, of course local echo is a command-line arg
[15:02:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> picocom is new to me..
[15:03:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> just found it in the man pages.
[15:03:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> I usually use kermit or my hardware terminal.
[15:05:21] <hje841> I wanted to use minicom, but for now picocom works and I just need it for learning the UART on the atmega328p (my test is an Arduino sketch)
[15:05:36] <malinus> hje841: I told you maaan
[15:06:50] <hje841> malinus, okay, okay :D
[15:07:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> for a full functional terminal program that does LOTS of stuff, install ckermit...the executable for it is kermit....it has a full help system online.
[15:10:03] <hje841> moserial seems to do the job too. it's a gtk app
[15:10:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup.
[15:11:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> kermit has a bit of a scripting environment in it along with the ability to execute local commands, read/write local files, and other fun stuff.
[15:11:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> heck, it can even play web browser in your console.
[15:15:19] <hje841> wao.. all I need for now is just a dumb terminal :) maybe the scripting will come in handy if I get to a point where I'm using the serial for debugging
[15:16:06] <malinus> Lambda_Aurigae: I just use python if I want to do fancy stuff :)
[15:16:38] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've used kermit to upload hex files to 8052 chips with built in bootloaders..
[15:16:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> although, can do that with picocom and minicom too for that matter.
[15:21:23] <malinus> or python :V
[15:21:24] <malinus> :D
[15:30:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> or cat
[16:54:07] <Tekkkz> Hey!
[16:55:02] <Tekkkz> lufa seems to be more complex for sending and receiving data between pc<=>avr than as i need it ..
[16:55:45] <Tekkkz> any tips?
[16:56:47] <malinus> it really isn't
[16:57:08] <malinus> the virtual serial stack should be pretty simple
[16:58:14] <malinus> Tekkkz: you can still just use some 5v rs232<-> 12V rs232 <-> usb, if you prefer to simply use the serial peripheral
[16:58:45] <malinus> that's once additional ic though (or two, rather)
[17:00:18] <Tekkkz> hm no, then i didnt need to buy an 32u4
[17:00:38] <malinus> exactly, then what are you bitching about?
[17:00:39] <malinus> :D
[17:00:44] <Tekkkz> haha
[17:00:45] <Tekkkz> ok
[17:00:57] <Tekkkz> the problem is: i have no overview frm teh files
[17:01:08] <Tekkkz> donno what is for what, what do i need and so on
[17:01:19] <Tekkkz> cause there is so much shit in it too
[17:01:50] <malinus> well what about actually reading the documentation. Crazy as it sounds, it might give you a better overview.
[17:02:24] <Tekkkz> yep i thought so too
[17:02:32] <Tekkkz> but maybe i wil lread it tomorrow
[17:02:36] <Tekkkz> now its so late
[17:02:49] <Tekkkz> and im so bitched about so mich files :D
[17:02:54] <Tekkkz> too late for me to work :D
[17:04:37] <Tekkkz> never mind
[17:04:44] <Tekkkz> im gonna sleep right now
[17:04:48] <Tekkkz> see you tomorrow
[17:04:52] <Tekkkz> byebye good night
[17:13:28] <Casper> has anyone here used the tiny85 timer1? They talk about async and sync clock source, but I can't find where to set it to one mode or the other... has I missed something? or is there something missing?
[18:00:37] <markm_> on the avr are return addresses byte addresses or word addresses? i seem to recall something about them being word addresses
[18:07:55] <Xark> markm_: Since instructions are always words, I think they are word addresses (except for LPM perhaps).
[18:08:45] <markm_> lpm needs the word address converted to a byte address (simple shift). its been 4 years almost since i touced avr asm :)
[18:09:19] <markm_> im coding it again and i just looked at some code i had written and thought "wait... isnt this wrong?" lol
[18:11:02] <specing> NIH confirmed
[18:15:25] <markm_> blargh wish there was a compare and skip if NOT equal opcode lol
[18:16:52] <specing> bne?
[18:17:12] <specing> oh sorry, been thinking about MIPS
[18:17:42] <markm_> cpse <--- cpsN ? lol
[18:17:59] <markm_> the left one exists. was wishing for the one on the right
[18:18:03] <specing> hcf
[18:18:14] <aczid> cool, I figured out how to use simulavr to benchmark the cycle count of my code :D
[18:18:18] <markm_> thats only on intel FPUs
[18:18:37] <markm_> division is futile, you will be approximated
[18:20:06] <aczid> regarding lpm byte/word adresses... -now- I finally understand why pointers for lpm take another right shift :D
[18:46:30] <Xark> markm_: Can't you just brne over the next instruction?
[18:47:16] <markm_> xark the brne requires a separate test. 1: test, 2: branch. the cpse is a compare and branch in one opcode
[18:47:23] <markm_> im cheap. i dont like to use opcodes! lol
[18:47:58] <Xark> I see. In my case flags were already set.
[18:48:04] <markm_> im rewriting the forth compiler i wrote 4 years ago. i wrote it as direct threaded then, im doing it as sub threaded now, way more efficient
[18:48:24] <markm_> im shooting for the absolute SMALLEST forth kernel i can get (to go in boot sector)
[20:11:39] <aczid> cpse is also neat because it doesn't touch the carry bit
[20:11:46] <aczid> markm_: cool work btw :D
[20:12:08] <markm_> aczid, you know forth?
[20:12:18] <aczid> no, but I like avr assembly
[20:12:34] <markm_> i like all assembly except PIC
[20:13:44] <Casper> markm_: but pic16 are the best one evah! :D
[20:14:11] <markm_> oopts... sorry bud i missed your breakpoint and stopped 2 opcodes further on... oh well
[20:14:25] <Casper> and the best one documented ever!
[20:14:47] <markm_> im somewhat disappointed with avr. they are adding PIC support to the dragon
[20:14:49] <markm_> HAVE added it
[20:15:09] <markm_> and microchip is adding avr support to pickit4
[20:15:45] <markm_> either that or the eevblog guy is pulling everyones leg lol
[20:16:43] <aczid> early april fools? :)
[20:17:28] <aczid> dude that video was from march 31st 2013... :)
[20:23:38] <markm_> well is it true? lol
[20:23:49] <markm_> who cares when from... if its true im disappointed with atmel :P
[20:24:05] <aczid> well, I would be highly skeptical ;)
[20:24:50] <markm_> it wasnt an april fools joke.. he was serious
[20:25:02] <markm_> but maybe he was just pulling the legs of all the AVR fanboys he hates lol
[20:25:05] <Casper> nothing that come on 2 days before and 2 weeks after april 1 is real
[20:25:11] <markm_> i.e. PIC/AVR what is difference
[20:28:17] <Casper> pic16 have a very shitty opcode list but claim to be simple (sure, with 30few opcodes...) , avr have more opcode (130few) and better documentation
[20:28:33] <Casper> and avr are faster per clock, but less used commercially
[20:28:45] <Casper> but both do the same thing at the end of the day
[20:31:18] <markm_> and avr code doesnt need a skid bucket
[20:31:40] <markm_> avr c compiler doesnt produce broken code if you have more than 300 lines of C and optimzations turned on
[20:32:39] <markm_> however, i wish the 32u4 had 256k of flash like the pic24fj256da210 etc
[20:32:58] <markm_> are there any avr's with a decent sized flash?
[20:33:34] <Xark> markm_: 256KB?
[20:33:41] <markm_> yes
[20:34:11] <Xark> Look into 2560 then (but kind of expensive). If 128KB is enough 1284 may be good (also 40 PDIP and more SRAM).
[20:34:11] <Casper> markm_: I wish some 8 bits avr had a dac...
[20:34:28] <Xark> Casper: xmega does...
[20:34:38] <Casper> Xark: that ain't 8 bits..
[20:34:42] <markm_> dac = pwm :)
[20:34:49] <Xark> Casper: Yes it is, same instruction set as AVR, just different IO
[20:34:54] <Xark> AVR8
[20:35:00] <Casper> true dac, not PWM dac...
[20:35:07] <Casper> ain't xmega 3.3V?
[20:35:08] <Xark> Casper: It has a true DAC...
[20:35:20] <markm_> pwm == poor mans dac
[20:36:01] <Xark> Casper: Note the top "Key Feature"
http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/avr_xmega.aspx
[20:36:26] <markm_> xark are there any dev boards with the 256k/128k avr's
[20:36:55] <Xark> markm_: Sure. E.g., Arduino mega, and no doubt some Atmel boards.
[20:37:10] <Xark> markm_: Or breadboard a 1284 (easy)
[20:37:11] <markm_> FUCK arduino
[20:37:40] <Xark> markm_: You don't have to use their IDE, their hardware is a bog standard AVR (with wonky pinout...)
[20:38:04] <Casper> markm_: but really, look at the arduino too, you don't need to use arduino code, but maybe that there is an interresting board that you could use
[20:38:04] <markm_> atmel produces a dev board that works for almost all of their devices.. . .
[20:38:07] <markm_> wonder how much that is
[20:38:43] <markm_> casper i use arduino's at work, i just implemented a digi mesh driver for arduino in 3 days. the more i use arduino's the more pissed off i get lol
[20:38:48] <markm_> but yea. thats using their IDE
[20:39:03] <markm_> my plan is to take all of works arduino's and burn my forth into them ALL
[20:39:03] <Xark> http://store.atmel.com/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:10500272;c:100113#tc:description for 1284 (nice price too)
[20:39:05] <markm_> take taht
[20:39:25] <markm_> WOW that is a nice price!
[20:39:39] <markm_> theres another difference between atmel and PIC
[20:40:11] <markm_> how much does microchip charge for the PICKIT? or for the more professional in circuit debuggers....
[20:40:36] <markm_> and they also charge for their dev tools.
[20:40:55] <markm_> hrm does atmel let you use their studio for production code or do you need a license? i forget
[20:41:32] <Xark> markm_: I believe it is free. Check their libraries, but compiler is just gcc.
[20:41:35] <Casper> oh it's later than I tought! bbl! :D
[20:42:19] <markm_> xark so is PICs - but their compiler buggers up the object code on anything other than utterly trivial code when you have optimizations turned on
[20:42:30] <Xark> markm_: They are evil
[20:42:31] <markm_> make a change in module a... suddenly module b isnt performing as expected
[20:42:49] <markm_> gcc is probably the single WORST thing ever to have happend to the programming industry
[20:42:57] <markm_> erm no. make that GNU deve tools as a whole
[20:43:07] <markm_> their debugger is worse than their compiler
[20:43:08] <Xark> markm_: Questionably GPL complaint too. However, I think they have an unencumbered toolchain available now.
[20:43:35] <Xark> markm_: I disagree.
[20:43:52] * Xark has been loving gcc since the late 80s. :)
[20:44:17] <markm_> xark gcc is ok on x86, it is sufferable there
[20:44:32] <markm_> but on an embedded device C is a shitty language to use
[20:44:46] <Xark> markm_: I first used it in 68000 and it was better than vendor compiler (Lattice). :)
[20:44:47] <markm_> "developing embedded applications in C is like opening a can... with a rock"
[20:44:51] <markm_> -- ron oliver --
[20:45:09] <Xark> I use C++ (carefully).
[20:45:15] <markm_> for 68k it was probably fine but i bet that amiga c compiler was better
[20:45:19] <markm_> erm i forget what it was called
[20:45:22] <markm_> dice! thats it
[20:46:12] <Xark> markm_: I don't remember dice. I mostly remember Lattice (in several incarnations) and Manx C.
[20:46:25] <Xark> (aka Aztec C)
[20:46:38] <markm_> i seem to recall all of those during my amiga days
[20:46:55] <markm_> problem with gnu dev tools is they have their head up their ass, they NEVER left the 68k days
[20:47:16] <markm_> which is why they have that stupid at&t butchery
[20:47:41] <markm_> the guy that wrote dice went on to work on fbsd i believe and then left and created erm.. dragon bsd or whatever its called
[20:48:03] <Xark> markm_: I agree gdb without a front end isn't too fun, but I am pretty happy with the rest of their tools (especially binutils is awesome and flexible compared to other toolchains). However, nice that clang has lit a fire under their ass. ;)
[20:48:26] <Xark> Hmm, sounds like Matt Dillon.
[20:48:29] <markm_> clang is no better. i could argue it is even worse
[20:48:33] <markm_> yes. thats him
[20:48:35] <Xark> Dargonfly IIRC
[20:48:39] <markm_> yea thats him
[20:49:07] <markm_> cool dood but he got rid of the forth bootlader from dragonfly lol
[20:49:11] <markm_> /thwap
[20:49:16] <markm_> lol
[20:49:17] <Xark> I remember using several of his tools on Amiga. I remember he worked on Linux in the early days and got upset and went to BSD. :)
[20:49:32] <markm_> then he got upset there too
[20:50:21] <Xark> markm_: I really like clang. Nice and strict (finds questionable code). :)
[20:50:31] <markm_> i guess the atmel jtagice is $300 too
[20:51:01] <Xark> markm_: If on a budget you might get away with AVR Dragon (but limited on parts it supports).
[20:51:16] * Xark notes Dragon works nicely on 328P...
[20:51:19] <markm_> xark at hart im an embedded developer. C and embedded are mutually exclusive which is why i have so much dislike of arduino. which MORON decided to use object obfuscated c++ on an avr?
[20:51:27] <markm_> i have a dragon
[20:51:36] <Xark> markm_: So you want all asm?
[20:51:59] <markm_> xark i write forth compilers. forth is the single best embedded language ever devised. PERIOD
[20:52:17] <markm_> does the dragon support this mega-1284?
[20:52:22] <Xark> markm_: Pass. :) I tried it on Apple ][ and switched to assembly.
[20:52:27] <markm_> i guess so
[20:52:33] <markm_> its in the "related tools"
[20:52:50] <markm_> xark i never really liked any of the 6502 forths i used :)
[20:53:19] <Xark> 6502 wasn't really kind to any language (but did pretty good with "tuned" asm).
[20:53:21] <markm_> my isforth for x86 linux which i then ported to ARM (32) and then to Android (native library) and then rewrite in thumb2...
[20:53:31] <markm_> yes
[20:53:46] <markm_> back in my c64 days i only ever did asm. i didnt do forth yet
[20:54:01] <markm_> tho i DID have (and still do have) a vic20 forth cart :)
[20:54:03] <Xark> Yeah. I was coding professional games in 100% asm in those days.
[20:54:08] <markm_> i think i had the c64 one too
[20:54:17] <markm_> xark damn. wish i was but i was nub
[20:54:27] <markm_> do i know any of the games you worked on?
[20:54:59] <Xark> I think Amiga was the first system that C was "allowed" (and then later PC, Genesis etc.).
[20:56:12] <markm_> i dont like the look of this jtagice. looks like a blue maxie pad
[20:56:41] <Xark> :) I think it is the same as AVRISPMkII?
[20:56:48] <markm_> if i got one of those i would probably rip it out of that and put it in a real enclosure. one that didnt look totally GHAY
[20:56:53] <markm_> yes
[20:56:59] <markm_> maxie pad
[20:58:05] <Xark> Hehe, I have the AVRISPmkII, but I can't say the little blue case ever bothered me (seems most of my dev tools are bare board...)
