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[03:13:47] <ecilop> если что - сегодня техн. отд. не пашет. Отпуск у меня до пнд., а в пнд. - неоплачиваемый отпуск на 1 день.
[03:14:11] <ecilop> sorry
[03:25:04] <Lt_Lemming> bad ecilop BAD!
[03:25:08] <Lt_Lemming> :-P
[05:00:21] <Fleck> hey, have q. about scopes, signal is ~3V, when I adjust Vertical know (Volts per div) I have to scroll soo far down (with vertical postition knob) to see signal, any way to keep line centered? or jump to volts position or something
[05:01:13] <Fleck> auto works great, but I sometimes need to increase V div, then V position is at 0
[05:01:34] <Valen> is it a DC or AC signal?
[05:01:38] <Fleck> DC
[05:02:09] <Valen> I mean are you looking at a signal that stays there for 15 seconds at 3.2 volts or is it a wiggly line running at 200Hz
[05:03:00] <Fleck> it's DC, when I press button, it's digital signal, but that's not the point
[05:03:14] <Fleck> and that's in this case only
[05:03:20] <Fleck> but I have this problem every time
[05:04:14] <Fleck> the problem is that when I change V/div - V/pos it at 0
[05:04:34] <Fleck> and if signal is around 3V, I have to move vertical position manually
[05:04:58] <Fleck> when V/div is small, it takes ages to scroll down :D
[05:11:49] <Fleck> dunno how to explain better :/
[05:36:25] <Fleck> also, on scope it's written: all inputs 1Mohm/16pF, 400V MAX CAT II, does it mean I can simply stick probes to AC mains w/o additional parts?
[05:39:08] <RikusW> DO NOT connect the ground clip....
[05:39:53] <RikusW> you probably want to use an isolation transformer...
[05:42:04] <Fleck> if I have isolation transformer, then and only then I can connect GND clip too?
[06:07:30] <ecilop> Not only. Without transformer it's dangerous.
[06:08:40] <malinus> Fleck: why would you even want to measure mains?
[06:08:58] <Fleck> well, look at triac output
[06:09:10] <RikusW> Fleck: right
[06:09:28] <RikusW> I'd avoid connecting the scope to non isolated AC
[06:09:47] <Thrashbarg> I'd avoid connecting anything under test to non-isolated AC :/
[06:10:27] <Fleck> Ill get 230V/110V AC transformer
[06:10:35] <RikusW> Neutral is more or less ground, but connecting earth to it makes the GFCI trip....
[06:10:36] <ecilop> I connected to non isolated. I checked circuir before.
[06:10:49] <ecilop> *circuit
[06:11:09] <Thrashbarg> I get two large transformers and wire the secondaries toghether. If there's a short it'll just drag the voltage down and not blow it up
[06:11:22] <Thrashbarg> 240V -> 24V -> 240V
[06:11:28] <RikusW> the "ground" on PC smps is at -175V , so sparks will fly :D
[06:11:33] <ecilop> фига се :D
[06:11:41] <Fleck> ecilop: :D
[06:11:48] <RikusW> Thrashbarg: like 2 MOTs ?
[06:12:19] <ecilop> on my PC "ground" is 0.
[06:12:23] <Thrashbarg> RikusW: well that's a posibility, but you'd be stepping from 240V to 2000V and back down agan. Also MOT's are usually rubbish quality
[06:13:13] <RikusW> Thrashbarg: you could use the HV side as primary to 240 -> 24V
[06:14:06] <Thrashbarg> I wouldn't... you'd be putting the coils under stress from too much current if you had a heavy load on it
[06:14:09] <RikusW> seen this
http://danyk.cz/index_en.html ?
[06:14:20] <Thrashbarg> yes
[06:14:43] <RikusW> up to 300W or so should be safe...
[06:15:12] <RikusW> Fleck: now don't go connect your scope to any of danyk's circuits :-D
[06:15:15] <Thrashbarg> heh
[06:15:24] <Fleck> RikusW: sure ;D
[06:15:58] <ecilop> Or use powerful divider
[06:16:22] <RikusW> that won't be enough on the marx generator....
[06:16:29] <RikusW> 240kV at 1000A
[06:16:44] <ecilop> not too much for good dividers
[06:17:33] <ecilop> There are dividers for use at 500kV.. The are huge :)
[06:17:38] <ecilop> *they are
[06:18:18] <ecilop> only for low frequency
[07:39:19] <MarkX> morning all
[07:40:21] <Lambda_Aurigae> rumplestilskin
[07:43:05] <MarkX> ....rumplestilskin to you too
[08:16:31] <MarkX> ugh
[08:16:40] <MarkX> if i have to make all my own footprints i might as well go to altium
[08:17:48] <Tom_itx> excpet for the cost
[08:18:15] <Tom_itx> you gotta make footprints in any of em
[08:35:56] <Tom_itx> http://www.diacut.com/products/
[08:38:18] <Tom_itx> http://www.toolking.com/osung-micss10-diamond-coated-micro-saw-blade-straight-10mm/
[08:38:59] <Tom_itx> those are pretty small
[08:39:14] <Tom_itx> and $$
[08:40:38] <Tom_itx> http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Diamond-Coated-Micro-Saw-Blade-Straight-10mm-Health-and-Beauty-/196215269?gpid=18283950120&gpkwd=&goog_pla=1&gclid=Cj0KEQjwn4iiBRDFh76wlfCVuYABEiQAwWJ1IqMk0hqxqX_3ZrvK9VFC9N2MvQxP3YdXkGLu8nYQlfoaAsRT8P8HAQ
[08:40:41] <Tom_itx> better price
[08:42:20] <Tom_itx> ignore all that
[08:42:23] <Tom_itx> wrong channel!
[08:44:12] <Getty> lol
[08:44:59] <Getty> Tom_itx: i am just not understanding why its Health & Beauty.... i would say its not healthy, neither does it make you beautiful, to use those on yourself ;-)
[08:45:27] <Fleck> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153338817394815 :DD
[08:45:53] <MarkX> Tom_itx: lol yes... price.... a big concern.... ;)
[08:48:29] <MarkX> Fleck: lmao reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmlCAhrAWYw
[08:49:36] <Fleck> ;p
[09:46:44] <twnqx> i am still wondering if WormFood is related to the user WormDrink here on freenode...
[09:58:26] <WormFood> nope
[09:58:38] <WormFood> twnqx, I have no idea who that is. No relation to me
[10:03:06] <twnqx> WormFood: btw, i'm back in shenzhen... for another 3 weeks :P
[10:08:32] <WormFood> twnqx, cool. I'm not leaving to anywhere anytime soon
[10:08:46] <WormFood> What area of shenzhen are you staying in (near what subway station)?
[10:08:56] <twnqx> grand theater
[10:09:27] <WormFood> 45 minutes, 2 transfers, to my place
[10:09:38] <twnqx> :o
[10:09:43] <WormFood> Are you comfortable taking the bus?
[10:09:45] <twnqx> that's quite the other side of the city :P
[10:09:50] <twnqx> not really
[10:09:59] <WormFood> I meet many people, chinese and foreigners, who HATE taking the bus
[10:10:08] <WormFood> I have no problems with the bus
[10:10:30] <twnqx> well, i'm ok with it as long as it's... emptier than tokyo subways at rush hour :P
[10:10:37] <WormFood> I'm 15 minutes away from Windows of the World, by bus
[10:11:16] <WormFood> take the subway to my house from WoW, and it takes 30 minutes...not counting the time to transfer....but by bus, on the worst day, it's 30 minutes.
[10:11:48] <twnqx> heh, it takes me about 45mins - 1h from my work place in bantian to the hotel :P
[10:11:53] <WormFood> Do you know Seeed Studios? They're literally 1 subway stop away
[10:12:09] <WormFood> actually, they're closer to me to just walk there...they're at the opposite end of the same road I live on
[10:12:26] <twnqx> weird, i thought they were near SEG plaza
[10:12:29] <WormFood> you're staying in a hotel?
[10:12:34] <WormFood> no
[10:12:58] <WormFood> before that, they were in central nanshan...now they're at north nanshan (district)
[10:13:11] <WormFood> I haven't visited their new offices yet. Maybe we can go together one day
[10:13:26] <twnqx> i am an existing customer :P
[10:13:52] <twnqx> i spend a good part of today trying to find WorldSemi in the LED mall hackvana recommended me
[10:13:59] <twnqx> didn't find them :(
[10:14:12] <WormFood> show me the address. I'll bet I can find them
[10:14:23] <WormFood> are they in hua qiang bei?
[10:14:49] <WormFood> I haven't yet not been able to find a place, in hua qiang bei, given the address.
[10:14:56] <twnqx> well, i don't know if they even HAVE an outlet in the shenzhen international led trading centre
[10:15:08] <WormFood> I go there a few times a month, on average, every month, for the last 6 years
[10:15:13] <day> im having trouble with linux+avrdude+jtag ice mk2 (jtag2isp)
http://dpaste.com/0S2Y8SB
[10:15:31] <WormFood> I met Bunnie in Shenzhen once
[10:15:41] <day> thats the line i used: sudo avrdude -pm88 -cjtag2isp -Pusb -e -U flash:w:test.hex
[10:15:44] <WormFood> You know, the first dude to hack the original xbox
[10:15:52] <twnqx> heh
[10:16:10] <twnqx> i know bunny from bunnystudios :P
[10:16:28] <WormFood> twnqx, tomorrow, I'm supposed to go to buji, and see my friend's new baby
[10:16:45] <twnqx> and i met a guy from the team that hacked the ps3 in tokyo last month :P
[10:16:50] <day> if i unplug the programmer from the board i get another error. this leads me to believe that it might just as well be a problem with the board. can i test the programmer on its own somehow?
[10:17:04] <twnqx> with another chip you can, day
[10:17:26] <twnqx> WormFood: no worries, tomorrow another two colleagues of mine will arrive
[10:17:53] <day> so theres no dryrunning testmode?
[10:18:45] <twnqx> day: the errors kind of tell you that SPI or reest is misconnected
[10:19:32] <WormFood> day, it's been a while since I programmed an AVR, but it seems I remember having a problem with one chip, and I had to adjust the timing, so it was very slow, and I was able to reset/reprogram the chip like that. I was using a different type of programmer, but maybe the same technique can help, if you've set the fuses to something funky ;)
[10:19:44] <WormFood> twnqx, do you use wechat?
[10:20:09] <twnqx> i guess i should finally install it
[10:20:33] <WormFood> when you do install it, add me. Same nick as here
[10:20:43] <WormFood> it has some really nice features
[10:21:16] <twnqx> more into skype and threema :P
[10:21:26] <WormFood> add me on skype, same nick as here
[10:22:24] <WormFood> I'll be back in a few minutes. Lets try to arrange a time to meet up. My plans to go to buji tomorrow, may change, due to other things, but I want to go.
[10:37:17] <day> NOOOOOO
[10:37:24] <day> it really is a uc problem
[10:37:27] <day> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[10:37:36] <WormFood> did you try my suggestion?
[10:37:41] <day> yes
[10:38:31] <day> all the work for nothing
[10:38:59] <WormFood> set your delay values really high
[10:39:00] <day> http://s4.postimg.org/679tm8w6k/2014_10_17_23_40_30.jpg
[10:39:01] <day> T_T
[10:39:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> not for nothing.
[10:39:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> you learned something.
[10:39:05] <day> yes for nothing
[10:39:11] <day> that i suck at soldering
[10:39:12] <WormFood> for an education :P
[10:39:18] <WormFood> soldering is easy
[10:39:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> looks like you overheated that chip though.
[10:39:40] <day> nah thats just flux
[10:39:46] <day> it looks clean
[10:40:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> is that an atmega1284p?
[10:40:09] <day> w/e ive got 40more of those :P
[10:40:12] <day> atmega88
[10:40:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh.
[10:40:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> duh...yeah, too few pins for the 1284p..
[10:40:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> why not just get it in dip package?
[10:40:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you are just going to make a dip adapter for it.
[10:40:47] <day> meh i got them super cheap
[10:40:59] <day> no i only build the dip adapter for breakboard testing
[10:41:06] <day> i wouldnt do it in a real circuit obviously
[10:41:19] <twnqx> did you measure the contacts? all of them?
[10:41:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> nothing obvious about it..people do dip adapters all the time.
[10:41:35] <twnqx> i had some cases where the cover wouldn't reaqlly melt
[10:42:03] <twnqx> also, did you apply vcc/gnd to all the pins?
[10:42:09] <day> twnqx: i removed the isolator before soldering them
[10:42:19] <twnqx> still
[10:42:19] <day> no i didnt only to two which is usually enough
[10:42:26] <twnqx> ...
[10:42:28] <twnqx> do all.
[10:42:30] <twnqx> always.
[10:42:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> including avcc
[10:43:02] <day> the dip packages are always fine with 1 gnd 1 vcc :/
[10:43:36] <twnqx> most of them only have one.
[10:43:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've had them fail that way....specially when using the i/o pins that double as analog pins..they derive their digital i/o from the avcc side too.
[10:43:58] <day> hmm i keep that in mind for the future
[10:46:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's right there in the datasheet.
[11:49:05] <tpw_rules> i'm having a weird optimization failure with avr-gcc. it works, but it's substantially less optimized than it should be. -Os -std=gnu99 -mmcu=atmega328p code:
http://pastie.org/private/thrmxmoeo0otn3mwqzohw asm output:
http://pastie.org/private/s4liesmrd9f6fi2wahe0vg . top is with cx like in code, bottom is with cx removed and x used directly
[11:51:04] <tpw_rules> with cx, it stores cx in a callee-saved register and copies it to r24 to pass to tft_draw_chr each loop because it might be clobbered. all well and good. if i use x directly, it stores x in a caller-saved register, so it must push and pop it before/after calling the function. it even copies to/from r25 instead of pushing/popping r24 itself
[11:52:04] <tpw_rules> ultimately, instead of pushing zero_reg to make a frame to store x, it should push a callee-saved register and hold x in there so it's not pushing/popping each go around the loop. it just needs to do the copy to r24 in order to call tft_draw_chr. this is exactly what happens when i use cx insteac
[11:55:11] <twnqx> hint: post to the avr-gcc mailing list
[11:55:18] <twnqx> those guys are really good
[11:55:55] <tpw_rules> do i have to subscribe to receive replies or will they be e-mailed to me?
[11:56:18] <Tom_itx> you have to wait.
[11:56:32] * Tom_itx gives tpw_rules a number
[11:56:41] <twnqx> just post with "Please CC: me on replies as I am not subscribed"
[11:56:46] <twnqx> works 4 me ™
[11:56:49] <tpw_rules> lolk
[11:56:52] <tpw_rules> thanks
[11:57:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> or subscribe...lots of good info comes through that list.
[11:57:25] <twnqx> yes, but you can just read the archives
[11:57:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> that too.
[11:57:56] * twnqx got his 10pack of the ISP wlan chips today
[11:57:58] <twnqx> :3
[11:58:17] <twnqx> i'd get really poor if i was staying in shenzhen for a year i guess
[12:00:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm already really poor...well,,,,poor enough that I can't buy toys on a whim.
[12:01:36] <twnqx> well, i am usually making a profit from my trips to shenzhen
[12:01:47] <twnqx> aaand time for bed
[12:01:54] <twnqx> oops, almost 1aqm
[12:02:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> closing on noon here.
[12:02:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I'm trying to clean up the mother-n-law's computer.
[12:02:42] <Tom_itx> sure is
[12:02:51] <Tom_itx> haven't acomplished anything yet either
[12:03:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> how someone can get so much spyware, malware, and just general CRAP installed on a computer in 6 months is beyond me.
[12:03:07] <Tom_itx> well.. i did rake the back yard
[12:03:33] <Tom_itx> Lambda_Aurigae all the social sites
[12:03:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[12:03:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> and her just clicking on ok whenever something shows up on screen.
[12:03:55] <Tom_itx> i seldom get anything on my pcs
[12:04:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> tried her on linux and she threw all kinds of fits because things she wanted to install wouldn't.
[12:04:06] <Tom_itx> the mrs i gotta fix about every 6 mo
[12:04:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> I never get anything on mine that I don't want...but, I run linux too.
[12:04:24] <Tom_itx> i run both
[12:04:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> wife runs win8 and hers is clean.
[12:04:52] <Tom_itx> her surface pro 3 bit it the other day
[12:05:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm ready to tell mother-n-law to take it to staples or bestbuy to get cleaned.
[12:05:10] <Tom_itx> haha
[12:05:35] <Lambda_Aurigae> the inlaws go to texas in the winter.
[12:05:43] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple that get most everything
[12:05:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> invariably, she will call me and want me to remote to her computer and help her get it online.
[12:05:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> WTF? If it isn't online I can't fucking remote in!
[12:07:04] <Tom_itx> kinda like the 'no internet' commercial?
[12:07:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> probably.
[12:08:13] <Tom_itx> download our helpful pdf...
[12:08:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> that the one where they got no internet....guy tells them to reboot the computer...they can't because they can't see...why can't they see? because the power is out.
[12:08:40] <Tom_itx> email tech support....
[12:08:49] <Tom_itx> I SAID I HAVE NO INTERNET!
[12:09:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> in our phone book it says if your phone is out, call such and such a number.
[12:09:06] <Tom_itx> ( the lady is on the phone with tech support)
[12:09:26] <Tom_itx> tech: you have no internet? ... you should call somebody!
[12:11:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> now, I did have one lady call me and tell me her internet was down and proceeded to give me all her personal information, including her account password and everything....she got it all out before I was able to get a word in edgewise to tell her I was NOT an internet service provider and that she had called my home phone.
[12:11:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> she got pissed at me for screwing with her and wanted her internet turned back on NOW.
[12:12:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> I finally had to laugh and hang up on her.
[12:17:26] <jadew> you should have said NO! and hang up
[12:18:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah, but I like fucking with people on the phone.
[12:18:18] <jadew> OR!
[12:18:23] <jadew> ok, we'll look into it
[12:18:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> like all the political callers wanting my opinion on this or that candidate.
[12:18:53] <Tom_itx> sometimes when a cold caller calls, i'll ask questions i know aren't on their script
[12:18:59] <jadew> "it takes at most 48 days to deal with this kind of issues. We are sorry for any inconvenience, etc etc"
[12:19:17] <Lambda_Aurigae> my standard reply these days is, "Before you ask your questions, here is what I think. I think every politician should hang by the neck until dead and left hanging there to rot."
[12:19:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> usually they hang up on me.
[12:20:53] <jadew> - Do you have 3 minutes? - Sure. - What is your opinion about <whatever>. - Ah... my schedule just filled up, bye.
[12:21:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> I just want video phones so I can see the look on their faces when I tell them their favorite pile of bloodsucking vermin should be hung.
[12:22:19] <jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfsdkGeMc8
[12:22:21] <jadew> YouTube: Best Prank Call Ever by Tom Mabe
[12:31:20] <tpw_rules> argh! i just spent 20 minutes writing a detailed report on what went wrong, why i thought it was wrong, what i think should be better, and info like the source, asm output, and compiler flags and i forgot to include the farking gcc version!
[12:34:22] <tpw_rules> someone needs to revoke my bug report license
[12:35:16] * Lambda_Aurigae gets the .50 cal sniper rifle ready
[12:37:19] <MarkX> hmm maybe i have a supreme misunderstanding of PWM
[12:37:22] <MarkX> and AVR
[12:37:51] <MarkX> but lets say i want to control 4 LED's separately using PWM. Doesn't that mean I'll need 4 separate counters?
[12:38:09] <Tom_itx> no
[12:38:13] <MarkX> lets assume all PWM is fast pwm
[12:38:22] <Tom_itx> the counter sets the frequency
[12:38:29] <Tom_itx> the ocrx reg sets the period
[12:38:37] <tpw_rules> you just set the overflow point as your period
[12:39:02] <MarkX> ah so i'd need 4 over flow points
[12:48:47] <MarkX> what about the output pins though, i'd need 4 OCRx ?
[12:49:51] <jadew> yes
[12:50:10] <jadew> how else would you drive 4 LEDs with PWM?
[12:52:55] <MarkX> damn
[12:53:04] <MarkX> i think i made a mistake then
[12:57:29] <Tom_itx> if you want them all different you would
[12:57:45] <Tom_itx> otherwise you could flip pins inside an interrupt
[12:58:09] <Tom_itx> or use a fpga to get as many as you want
[12:59:49] <MarkX> hmm i see
[13:00:54] <Tom_itx> or chain 2 avrs and use the clock output of one to feed the other one
[13:01:31] <MarkX> or put an and gate there and make a primitive led select :S
[13:02:27] <jadew> MarkX, that won't work with PWM
[13:03:21] <jadew> actually, it would, but you need to do things differently
[13:03:40] <MarkX> no? i was thinking the interrupt method Tom_itx suggested. could flip a selectled1 pin and flip the pwm out pin
[13:06:32] <MarkX> i'm just thinking aloud right now. basically i have to drive 2 motors in fwd and rev. i found a schematic online how to do that with one motor. i'm going to have to implement that to two motors....and add in PID loop control .... using an arduino library which is something i've never done before
[13:06:39] <MarkX> so daunting :(
[13:06:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> look at how rue_house does his 8 servo pwm with 2 timers.
[13:07:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> doesn't ardweeny have all the libs to do that for you?
[13:08:36] <MarkX> yep but i wanted to be all smart and do it "the right way". aka on a breakout board for an atmega32u4
[13:08:49] <MarkX> i didn't learn till recently that I can use arduino libs on avr
[13:08:55] <MarkX> by recently i mean last week
[13:08:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> then you started talking about arduino libraries.
[13:09:13] <MarkX> well i wasn't going to rewrite PID library XD
[13:09:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> basic arduino is just an avr.
[13:09:38] <Tom_itx> the 68332 moto pwm module was kinda neat
[13:09:58] <Tom_itx> it used a phase shift pwm for a total of 16 channels
[13:10:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_itx, nice.
[13:10:11] <MarkX> i didnt realize that till a week ago.
[13:10:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> probably a bitch to interface though.
[13:10:14] <Tom_itx> required one external logic gate
[13:10:22] <Tom_itx> no it was easy
[13:10:34] <Tom_itx> low overhead too
[13:10:43] <MarkX> just burned a simple flash led hex from arduino ide and boom, flashing led...
[13:11:14] <Tom_itx> it took an xor gate iirc and used 2 pins for the phase shift
[13:11:20] <Tom_itx> master and 15 slaves
[13:13:01] <Tom_itx> MCPWM:
http://cache.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/app_note/TPUPN05.pdf
[13:14:01] <Tom_itx> just figure out how to do that with an avr
[13:14:11] <Tom_itx> (maybe rue did)
[13:14:17] <Tom_itx> i didn't look at his code
[13:14:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> shouldn't be too difficult.
[13:16:35] <Tom_itx> http://www.coocox.org/Show_Comp.php?id=267&name=mcpwm
[13:16:42] <Tom_itx> ported to some other chip
[13:16:51] <jadew> that's interesting
[13:16:58] <Tom_itx> it was cool
[13:17:31] <Tom_itx> one of the reasons i liked that chip
[13:18:31] <jadew> I'd go for a small CPLD if I had to do anything fancy with LEDs
[13:18:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> 68k series chips in general rocked.
[13:18:53] <Tom_itx> yeah you'd need drive chips with an FPGA though
[13:19:14] <jadew> Tom_itx, well, after a certian number you need that with MCUs tooo
[13:19:17] <jadew> *too
[13:19:22] <Tom_itx> yeah
[13:22:06] <MarkX> i think i'll just get one motor working with PID first
[13:22:08] <MarkX> then go from there
[13:28:22] <jadew> what's PID?
[13:28:37] <Jartza> 'allo
[13:29:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> pelvic inflammatory disease
[13:29:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> or
[13:29:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> proportional integral derivative
[13:30:40] <MarkX> the first one
[13:37:26] <MarkX> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mgWMj2LhTM
[13:37:36] <MarkX> its in spanish but should show PID loop control at work
[13:40:22] <jadew> what does PID stand for?
[13:41:04] <MarkX> <Lambda_Aurigae> proportional integral derivative
[13:42:56] <jadew> tells me nothing
[13:43:41] <jadew> what does it do?
[13:44:02] <jadew> looks like PWM based on the difference read on the ADC
[13:44:37] <jadew> is that done without a MCU?
[13:45:07] <MarkX> here one sec
[13:45:17] <MarkX> http://playground.arduino.cc/Code/PIDLibrary
[13:45:25] <MarkX> that has a better description than i could ever provide
[13:46:58] <jadew> so another name for negative feedback?
[13:47:26] <MarkX> i don't know
[13:47:40] <MarkX> i've always called it PID loop control
[13:47:42] <jadew> judging by the plot, it looks precisely as negative feedback
[13:49:27] <jadew> MarkX, how do you read the value back from the motor?
[13:49:40] <MarkX> i have it connected to a pot
[13:49:53] <jadew> so it's only meant to do a full ration?
[13:49:57] <MarkX> less
[13:50:01] <MarkX> 270degrees
[13:50:45] <jadew> *rotation
[13:50:58] <MarkX> lol i read that as rotation anyways
[13:51:27] <MarkX> it saves me from using a motor with a built in encoder or an encoder system
[13:51:33] <jadew> I don't know what happens to me, I keep making lots of typos where I miss letters or replace them with something else
[13:51:44] <MarkX> hehe
[13:53:42] <MarkX> https://learn.adafruit.com/system/assets/assets/000/016/821/medium800/components_ClosedLoop.png?1400582368
[13:53:43] <MarkX> boosh
[13:53:46] <MarkX> thats exactly how mine is
[13:55:14] <jadew> http://cdn.meme.li/i/kpcan.jpg
[13:55:49] <MarkX> gold!
[13:57:43] <jadew> it's good to know this thing has a name, I always wondered how those automatic air freshners work
[13:57:50] <jadew> because they're super cheap
[14:12:10] <RikusW> PID is feedback, but I don't think its linear
[14:12:44] <jadew> well, it seems it doesn't even need to be monotone
[14:13:10] <RikusW> soldering irons use it
[14:13:16] <jadew> given that you decide how to calculate the error and adjustment, you get a lot of flexibility in it
[14:13:48] <Jartza> my espresso machine has two pid-controllers and my heating has two pid-circuits
[14:13:56] * RikusW comtemplates building a soldering iron controller...
[14:14:00] <Jartza> ...heating-controller, that is
[14:14:15] <jadew> RikusW, I thought about that too, but then I just bought another soldering station :P
[14:14:18] <jadew> takes less time
[14:14:22] <RikusW> heh
[14:14:41] <RikusW> I can buy a iron without a station over here..
[14:14:54] <RikusW> http://magnumproducts.co.za/
[14:14:59] <RikusW> I got one of theirs
[14:15:06] <RikusW> takes standard weller tips
[14:15:20] <RikusW> EW-... type
[14:16:46] <RikusW> 2004 station + 1002 iron
[14:17:10] <RikusW> cost about 100 Euro
[14:17:18] <RikusW> ZAR 1100
[14:17:22] <jadew> nice
[14:17:43] <Jartza> I now have two wellers
[14:17:48] <RikusW> I can't imagine soldering without temp control anymore
[14:18:04] <RikusW> and the nicely shaped tips
[14:18:12] <Jartza> the other was originally US-version, but I changed the transformer
[14:18:30] <Jartza> got the station free from a friend of mine, it was used like 4 times
[14:18:47] <Jartza> then he moved from US back to finland
[14:19:07] <jadew> I have a hakko fx 888 and a hot air / soldering station (no-name)
[14:19:14] <jadew> it really helps having two stations
[14:19:31] <jadew> with two irons you can just pick up smd components
[14:19:58] * RikusW got a Ryobi CPS-2000K heatgun..
[14:20:20] <jadew> heh, I had something similar
[14:20:21] <RikusW> indeed
[14:20:38] <jadew> it tends to melt the PCBs
[14:20:47] <Jartza> I'm thinking to buy some kind of solder paste dispenser
[14:20:50] <RikusW> my heatgun got finer temp control in addition to the normal I and II settings
[14:20:57] <jadew> ah
[14:21:01] <jadew> that's useful
[14:21:05] <RikusW> very
[14:21:08] <Jartza> the magnum products seems to have this manual
[14:22:30] <RikusW> I got it for like ZAR350 (USD $35)
[14:22:49] <RikusW> (roughly /10)
[14:23:18] <jadew> RikusW, about as much as I paid for mine
[14:23:58] <Jartza> I have the cheap chinese hot air station
[14:24:02] <Jartza> atten 858d+
[14:24:42] <RikusW> with some patience a m128 or avr32 can be removed from a pcb without harm
[14:24:56] <RikusW> like preheat and low heat
[14:25:12] <RikusW> I made a mark on the temp dial where solder starts to melt
[14:26:53] <Jartza> I've been practising with some smd, solder paste and that hot air station
[14:27:19] <Jartza> https://slack-files.com/files-pub/T02FEAMUS-F02QEJFFJ-fa51c1/20141018_008_1.jpg
[14:27:27] <Jartza> not perfect maybe, but ok I think
[14:28:45] <RikusW> so far I soldered all smd parts using my iron and normal 0.7mm solder and flux
[14:29:01] <RikusW> even .6mm pitch parts
[14:29:34] <RikusW> I used a EW-103 tip for that, (flat 5mm wide tip)
[14:29:48] <RikusW> the chip was a GTL2000
[14:31:49] * RikusW used the heatgun to repair automotive radiators as well
[14:32:02] <RikusW> and fuel tanks..
[14:33:08] <Jartza> RikusW: I also tried soldering those same components as in the picture with soldering iron
[14:33:18] <Jartza> did work, but looked much uglier
[14:33:32] <RikusW> some liquid flux should help
[14:34:23] <RikusW> http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s
[14:34:28] <RikusW> look at the photos page
[14:34:38] <RikusW> that was all done using just my iron
[14:35:27] <RikusW> I even soldered a SIM900 module, was easier than expected, bridging is almost a non problem
[14:35:35] <RikusW> very easy to remove
[14:40:34] <RikusW> looks nicer than mine ->
https://www.ryobitools.com/power-tools/products/details/549
[14:41:14] <RikusW> temp can also be varied by distance to pcb
[14:41:18] <Jartza> RikusW: well, I'm still beginner in soldering :)
[14:41:49] <RikusW> Jartza: once you get liquid flux you won't go without it again
[14:42:00] <jadew> RikusW, if you're in the market for a new station, get one of these:
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/226/621/447/447621226_927.JPG
[14:42:04] <RikusW> I apply it using a syringe and longish needle
[14:42:11] <Jartza> RikusW: I do have it ;)
[14:42:31] <RikusW> 5cm
[14:42:35] <jadew> you won't regret it, the hot air is much nicer to work with and the iron is not as bad as you'd expect
[14:42:35] <Jartza> liquid flux and also this kind of "gel" too
[14:43:04] <Jartza> I would just like to have some sort of solder paste dispenser
[14:44:52] <Jartza> that one on the magnumproducts-site looks nice
[14:45:34] <Jartza> I found a lot of these DS-982A electronic dispenser controllers with pedal from ebay, but that would require a compressor too
[14:47:04] <MarkX> liquid flux
[14:47:05] <MarkX> is amazing
[14:53:18] <Jartza> yeah
[14:53:36] <Jartza> I bought this weller f-sw32 because it was cheapest :)
[15:14:51] <rue_house> Lambda_Aurigae, unlike arduino, my hobby servo pwm pulses are not jittery
[15:15:22] <rue_house> and, as I recall arduino actually has less than 7 bit resolution, I have over 10
[15:19:44] <rue_house> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tG2bTOGxK0
[15:19:46] <rue_house> this is just PD
[15:19:59] <rue_house> the integral term was causing too much instability
[15:20:34] <rue_house> thats a standard solinoid, not meant for position control at all
[15:21:06] <rue_house> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg7K5X-_r2o
[15:21:13] <rue_house> this is also PD
[15:21:41] <rue_house> gear motor and pot, I have a manual positioning rig I'm operating it with on the other side of the room
[15:22:00] <rue_house> didn't have it tuned that well there tho
[15:56:02] <LoRez> how do you mark the values in an array as volatile?
[15:56:12] <LoRez> (avr-gcc)
[16:37:50] <Tom_itx> LoRez wouldn't you declare the whole array volatile?
[16:38:44] <LoRez> Tom_itx: that would be my guess, but I'm seeing odd issues. I think it has to do with this not sampling a second time.
[16:50:00] <Tom_itx> http://blog.regehr.org/archives/28
[16:54:44] <LoRez> yeah, I think my issue presently is a lack of being able to get the ADC to do multiple conversions
[16:55:19] <aandrew> Tom_itx: interesting, I did not know that people could sometimes use volatile to cover up a race condition
[16:56:44] <LoRez> (I'd already read that)
[17:00:22] <aandrew> Tom_itx: very interesting regarding nonvolatile accesses can be reordered around volatile ones
[17:00:33] <aandrew> I've not run into that before, at least not to my knowledge
[17:00:45] <aandrew> I did a lot of memory barrier hand-wringing when writing PCIe drivers though
[17:08:22] <Cykey> Hi folks. I've tracked down the issue in my code to this piece of code specifically. The while loop never ends. Is my code clearly wrong?
[17:08:25] <Cykey> SPDR = data;
[17:08:25] <Cykey> while (!(SPSR & _BV(SPIF)));
[17:13:26] <RikusW> is SPI setup as master ?
[17:13:53] <RikusW> check SPCR setup
[17:17:23] <Getty> might be a vague question but i also accept vague answers, are there any kind of "core" arguments of still doing atmega stuff in compare to ARM? (beside like, you know, if you dont need to switch cause you already sell something hehe)
[17:19:04] <Tom_itx> if your project doesn't require more than 8bit don't use them?
[17:20:58] <Getty> Tom_itx: you mean s/don't use them/why not use them/ ?
[17:21:25] <Tom_itx> if your project doesn't require more than 8bit don't use arm?
[17:22:09] <Getty> yeah but why you put this as "given"? i mean that sentence makes sense if you define why atmega is for sure the way to go if you can pick both by the requirements
[17:22:15] <Getty> i want to find out specific this definition
[17:22:59] <Tom_itx> you said you'd take vague answers...
[17:23:02] <Tom_itx> you lied
[17:23:17] <Getty> wait, you didnt answered it ;) you just say "of course you take atmega if you just have 8 bit"
[17:23:22] <Getty> but i want to know why is that so obvious?
[17:23:31] <Tom_itx> cost?
[17:23:33] <Tom_itx> size?
[17:23:38] <Tom_itx> ease of programming?
[17:24:11] <Getty> i never compared exactly the arm market with atmegas like specific how the cost are on the same I/O that comes out
[17:24:18] <Tom_itx> you could do the same thing an atmega could do with discrete logic...
[17:24:21] <Getty> in general it seems not much of a difference
[17:24:33] <Tom_itx> but why would you?
[17:24:47] <Tom_itx> find what fits best and use it
[17:24:54] <Getty> heheheh you still assume the case (which i personally have) that you already use atmega
[17:25:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> why use a 10 dollar arm to do what a 2 dollar attiny can do just fine?
[17:25:29] <Getty> ah so, there are really no arms which are at the same price range if you need the minimum?
[17:25:51] <Getty> i just know that there are "tons of arms for all requirements" but i never can "catch them all" (haha pokemon joke)
[17:25:57] <Getty> thats why ask for that kind of feedback :)
[17:26:36] <Getty> so the atmega is for sure always cheaper as some as powerful arm. no matter what arm production you take?
[17:26:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've never seen an 8pin arm.
[17:26:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> they might be out there though.
[17:26:56] <Tom_itx> no i didn't assume anything, it was an example
[17:27:08] <Tom_itx> i've never seen a 6 pin arm either
[17:27:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..just found an 8pin arm.
[17:27:20] <Getty> hehehehe
[17:27:21] <Getty> :)
[17:27:26] <Getty> and is it chea?
[17:27:28] <Getty> p
[17:27:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> let's see the price next.
[17:27:40] <Tom_itx> ease of programming?
[17:27:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> cheap in volume..
[17:27:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> now there's the kicker.
[17:28:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/nxp-puts-32bit-arm-core-in-8pin-package-for-39.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222914687
[17:28:59] <Getty> uuuhhhhh
[17:28:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> and can't run at 5V.
[17:29:35] <Tom_itx> why would you though?
[17:29:48] <Tom_itx> put all that in a package with only 8 pins...
[17:29:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> I still run many of my microcontroller projects at 5V.
[17:29:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_itx, sometimes that's all you need.
[17:30:13] <Getty> oh dear i kicked something on ;) hehe
[17:30:28] <Getty> lets be clear, we know there are always realities and why seek around if you got what is needed, that is clear
[17:30:29] <Tom_itx> wasn't that what you wanted?
[17:30:50] <Getty> its really just the feeling that i should "break out" of the atmega stuff and go arm
[17:30:52] <Getty> yeah sure :)
[17:30:55] <Getty> its interesting
[17:30:58] <Tom_itx> maybe i'd use arm if i knew arm better than avr
[17:31:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> use whatever you need to get the job done.
[17:31:09] <Tom_itx> maybe i'd use pic if i knew pic better than arm
[17:31:19] <Tom_itx> etc
[17:31:23] <Tom_itx> there's that too
[17:31:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I use a lot of avr for most things and occasionally I go for pic32 for some higher power stuff and/or usb.
[17:31:31] <Getty> yeah that is clear, thats the way electronic world goes
[17:31:31] <RikusW> heresy :-D
[17:31:49] <Getty> but i try to define my way here, and i am already at a point where my dad (the electronican) cant do the software programming anymore
[17:31:52] * Tom_itx sits RikusW back in his corner
[17:31:53] <Getty> (he has no idea of tcp/ip)
[17:32:11] <Getty> at this point i have the urge to say "ok fuck it, we go arm" and so do the jump without pain
[17:32:28] <Tom_itx> then you should
[17:32:43] <Getty> yeah i didnt said that at first, cause i dont wanted to get this answer straight away
[17:32:49] <Getty> i really like atmega and my dad loves it
[17:32:57] <Getty> and bringing my dad to arm is like... yeah..... painful act
[17:33:15] <Getty> so i try to find..... reasoning to stay but its hard to find, as all we get with atmega in the end is problems
[17:33:32] <RikusW> I've considered arm, but not put much time into it...
[17:33:36] <Getty> not "HUGE GIANT BLOCKER" problems, more like... thousand examples and none work ;)
[17:33:44] <Getty> yeah i think you NEED to have the time
[17:33:50] <Getty> but we are fresh here about the MCU programming
[17:33:59] <Getty> its like we now programm our 3rd process
[17:34:12] <Getty> first some atmega8 (see homehive.tv) then atmega2560 and now some atxmega
[17:34:22] <Tom_itx> is arm 16 or 32bit core?
[17:34:35] <Tom_itx> i still miss my 68332
[17:34:36] <RikusW> thumb is 16bit afaik
[17:34:43] <Tom_itx> it was 32 iirc
[17:34:46] <Lambda_Aurigae> going arm will require different programmer....jtag at a minimum or specialized programmer for that specific arm product.
[17:34:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_itx, that one I posted the link to is a 32bit core.
[17:34:58] <Getty> yeah sure, programmer are buyable
[17:35:10] <Getty> the question is: what will my dad say about the electronics?
[17:35:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> then the dev environment....
[17:35:21] <RikusW> my other concern is the toolchain...
[17:35:36] <Getty> will he have problems if we tell him to get there without him actually being able to program it
[17:35:36] <RikusW> some are _expensive_
[17:35:48] <Getty> yeah well we would go very open ways if so ;)
[17:35:49] <RikusW> unlike Atmel ICE
[17:35:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> there is gcc for arm but it doesn't support a lot of the odd peripherals for all the different manufacturers.
[17:35:54] <Getty> and we are master of toolchains
[17:36:04] <Getty> give us something, we do it..... the time in "pure IT" made us strong in that topic
[17:36:05] <Getty> hehehe
[17:36:39] <Getty> but the electronics is a black thing for us
[17:37:02] <Lambda_Aurigae> for each manufacturer, there is a different toolchain, different libc at the minimum for the specific hardware if you are programming in C.
[17:37:04] <Getty> i think we are at a rare position, designing a device, getting it 100% ready by the electronican and then we actually learn how to program the stuff ;)
[17:37:35] <Getty> yeah but its normalized in some way, which is of couse the same with atmega, but its "just" atmega, just one "product line" (which is not a bad one, as asid, it works fine)
[17:37:53] <Getty> but if there is no link anymore between the developer of the MCU software and the electronican
[17:37:57] <Getty> then it really "doesnt matter" anymore
[17:38:10] <Getty> AS LONG there is not an electronic reason he can through into our face
[17:39:22] <Getty> a good example btw is contiki, we really would love to use the fullstack of contiki, not that its like required, but we prefer to think bigger and more normalized, but damn ... try to make that xmega port
[17:39:58] <Getty> we dropped that plan now and switched to using lwIP or uIP directly in "normal" avr code (so like no fancy framework/OS on top)
[17:40:31] <Getty> and i am really sick of caring of that topic, and i feel with ARM we can go probably better ways there as there is a LOT of OS
[17:40:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> contiki is a bit much for an 8bit avr.
[17:41:04] <Getty> it would be actually fine on the xmega if we take out what we dont need
[17:41:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> looks like it WILL run on an avr...but heck, that's a massive program for a small processor.
[17:41:17] <Getty> by the "test hex" we had without xmega specific porting was all fine in size and plan
[17:41:24] <Getty> yeah sure
[17:41:41] <Getty> but in our case it would fit, and the more general we are the more fast we can kick out the next
[17:41:52] <Getty> i am not a fan of contiki, but the.......... area is not wide
[17:42:11] <Getty> what are xmega OS there that we can use at all?
[17:42:17] <Getty> "OS"
[17:42:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> dunno.
[17:42:53] <Getty> hehehe :)
[17:42:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> I don't run any OS on microcontrollers...however, I've not touched xmega myself.
[17:43:07] <Lambda_Aurigae> from 8bit I went up to pic32 which is a whole other world.
[17:43:08] <Getty> i can 100% understand people who dont go that way
[17:43:45] <Getty> but as "fresh guy" i see now the chances to go directly the best ways before i am fully stock
[17:43:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have an OS about 80% written for AVR...but it is a clone of an old OS from the 80s...
[17:44:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm pseudo-duplicating the old BASIC OS environment from the commodore computers of old.
[17:44:34] <Getty> haha :)
[17:44:37] <Getty> wait a sec, you know....
[17:44:42] <Getty> https://github.com/adamdunkels/ubasic ? ;)
[17:45:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's one that I looked at as I was working on it.
[17:45:33] <Getty> haha ok :)
[17:45:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> mostly I'm porting commodore 64 ROMs to AVR.
[17:45:44] <Getty> i would strongly suggest uLua for anyone who like that direction of thinking
[17:45:51] <Getty> just a sidenote i have to put out
[17:46:05] <Cykey> RikusW: Yes. Here's my setup routine: SPCR |= _BV(MSTR); SPCR |= _BV(SPE);
[17:46:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> with a parallel project to run on the same hardware that uses a C interpreter rather than a BASIC interpreter.
[17:46:11] <Getty> Lambda_Aurigae: thats sexy, i always thought about "full devices" which are just one game
[17:47:39] <RikusW> Cykey: I'd do SPCR = _BV(MSTR) | _BV(SPE); then you have a known value
[17:47:57] <RikusW> though thats probably not the cause of your problem
[17:48:29] <RikusW> I prefer explicit assignment for initialization
[17:51:53] <Cykey> RikusW: Could it be caused by some kind of SPI interrupt thing?
[17:54:31] <RikusW> maybe try while (!(SPSR & (1<<SPIF)));
[18:01:15] <Cykey> RikusW: same results
[18:02:50] <RikusW> check your SS pin ?
[18:03:12] <RikusW> if its input and pulled low SPI will change to slave mode
[18:04:02] <LeoNerd> Set SS to output *before* enabling SPI
[18:04:10] <LeoNerd> Order is important
[18:06:27] <RikusW> and set it high
[18:09:51] <Getty> "Set SS to output .... Order is important" <huehue> <couldntresist>
[18:12:00] <Cykey> Ah, yeah, fixed
[18:12:05] <Cykey> the order IS important
[18:13:03] <Cykey> I wish I had one of these:
https://www.saleae.com/logic
[18:14:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Logic_Shrimp_logic_analyzer
[18:14:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> make one of these.
[18:14:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Logic_Shrimp_v2_design_overview
[18:15:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> or one of these.
[18:20:59] <tpw_rules> Lambda_Aurigae: or get a saleae clone
[18:24:09] <vsync> What? That LA is shit, i know my friend dave from eevblog told me
[18:25:30] <tpw_rules> which one
[18:25:45] <vsync> you need a $10k one
[18:26:47] <tpw_rules> a) what b) that particular one looks pretty shit but c) get a saleae clone, you get 8 channels and as much sample memory as your pc has
[18:27:03] <tpw_rules> for cheaper
[18:31:19] <vsync> dave says you need $10k agilent
[18:34:10] <tpw_rules> when? as i recall he quite liked the saleae
[18:34:47] <tpw_rules> depends on what you need to do. for absolute bandwidth, yes. the saleae wins on capture time and probably protocol decoding
[18:35:03] <tpw_rules> or if you need to capture many dozen/hundred signals at once. you can also buy an old one off ebay for not very much
[18:35:37] <malinus> Lambda_Aurigae: can yor AVR run commodore 64 roms now?
[18:36:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> malinus, no...never will either...c64 roms are 6502 assembly.
[18:36:12] <Lambda_Aurigae> somewhere there is a 6502 emulator for the avr though.
[18:36:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, it could be done that way.
[18:36:37] <malinus> I thought that's what you were making
[18:36:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm duplicating a lot of the functionality of the c64/c128 basic.
[18:36:54] <malinus> may I ask what for?
[18:36:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> but the interpreter will be running native avr.
[18:36:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> for the fun of it.
[18:37:06] <malinus> oh okay
[18:38:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> eventually I want to use a ps-2 keyboard and mouse with it and drive vga at 800x600 and have a built in web browser and irc client.
[18:38:58] <malinus> all in one 8-bit avr?
[18:39:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> oh no.
[18:39:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> on several AVRs
[18:39:06] <malinus> haha
[18:39:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> atmega1284p will have the basic OS and built in apps.
[18:39:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> one avr for the vga driver
[18:39:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> and one for i/o
[18:39:48] <malinus> Lambda_Aurigae: have you considered simply using one 32-bit mcu? it would be easy for it
[18:39:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> i/o will handle keyboard, mouse, and possibly audio. I might even break audio off to another chip.
[18:39:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah...
[18:40:04] <Lambda_Aurigae> parallel development is being done on a pic32.
[18:40:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> pic32 at 40MHz.
[18:40:35] <malinus> I was thinking about one of those 100+mhz STM's
[18:40:39] <malinus> but yeah, sure
[18:40:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> the ultimate goal is to be able to build the thing with through hole parts and little to no soldering.
[18:41:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> like, do it all on solderless breadboards.
[18:41:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's a for funzie project.
[18:41:36] <malinus> I would say doing all that on one single STM-development board could be fun too ;P
[18:42:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> true, if I had one to play with.
[18:42:39] <malinus> they are like $5
[18:42:51] <Lambda_Aurigae> this is being done with 90%ish free parts...between samples and scavenged stuff.
[18:43:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> so far the only thing that's cost me anything is the solderless breadboards.
[18:43:34] <malinus> I'm trying to make a ext-filesystem SD-card reading library for the 8-bit avr. So I shouldn't be talking ;P
[18:43:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> ooo...I'd be interested in that.
[18:43:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> if you could read and write ext2 that would be awesome.
[18:44:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> I have fatfs for the avr
[18:44:44] <Lambda_Aurigae> the i/o chip also handles access to an sd card for storing basic programs.
[18:45:00] <Lambda_Aurigae> using a fatfs system.
[18:45:30] <malinus> yeah, there is a lot of fat* libraries to do it. I haven't heard of anyone doing ext2 before, so I thought why not?
[18:46:00] <malinus> haven't really started working on it yet though. and to be honest I don't even know all the minimal implementations of ext2 in details yet.
[18:46:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> shouldn't be too difficult...I just never bothered to read the docs on ext2.
[18:46:34] <malinus> yeah it's also a good excuse to learn about the file system, which I heard is very simple
[18:46:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> and I just added another project to my pile.
[18:46:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> I bought Kerbal Space Program a short while back.
[18:47:02] <malinus> oh no
[18:47:03] <malinus> haha
[18:47:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> the full version is so much more advanced than the free version.
[18:47:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, now I have to build a set of spaceship flight controls.
[18:47:23] <malinus> I have like 100h+ in that games
[18:47:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> me too.
[18:47:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> and now adding more to the full version.
[18:48:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> and when they get the multiplayer working I'll add even more.
[18:48:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> imagine,,,KSP Battles!
[18:48:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> solid rocket booster missiles!
[18:48:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> and space mines.
[18:51:37] <Lambda_Aurigae> am just now moving my kerbal install over to the SSD so it will load faster.
[18:53:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> lots of new bits of hardware that I have to figure out how to use too.
[18:53:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> I want to build things in space.
[18:54:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> want to make an hydrogen ion engine, hydrogen fusion reactor, and hydrogen space ramscoop mod for long duration flights.
[19:19:58] <vsync> well no wonder
[19:20:12] <vsync> freenode chat of mcus evolved into a discussion of video games
[19:20:20] <vsync> gee wiz, who would have thought of that ever happening
