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[02:02:15] <CluelessZac> for some reason I can't program my attiny45
[02:02:19] <CluelessZac> but I can do thw arduino just fine
[02:02:22] <CluelessZac> any ideas?
[02:02:29] <CluelessZac> I've already reqired multiple times
[02:11:15] <evil_dan2wik> CluelessZac, don't they have a different programming interface?
[02:11:23] <evil_dan2wik> how are you trying to program your tiny right now?
[02:23:37] <CluelessZac> evil_dan2wik, Arduino tends to use a bootloader, but still has an ISP header on the board
[02:23:54] <CluelessZac> evil_dan2wik, I'm attempting to use the avrisp mkii to flash/program he attiny45
[02:24:09] <CluelessZac> evil_dan2wik, avrdude: stk500v2_program_enable(): bad AVRISPmkII connection status: Unknown status 0x00
[02:24:09] <CluelessZac> avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1
[02:24:25] <ecilop> rst pin?
[02:24:47] <evil_dan2wik> do AT Tinys program from ISP?
[02:25:07] <ecilop> why not?
[02:25:13] <CluelessZac> evil_dan2wik, yes
[02:25:37] <CluelessZac> evil_dan2wik, how are you supposed to program it then?
[02:25:38] <evil_dan2wik> ok, I thought they had their own protocol.
[02:25:48] <CluelessZac> ecilop, what about reset pin?
[02:26:07] <ecilop> datasheets has many answers
[02:26:32] <CluelessZac> ecilop, yes, and I don't have time to read the entire thing
[02:28:38] <ecilop> CluelessZac: you found time for foolery hobby with attiny.. And not found time for read specs?
[02:28:48] <CluelessZac> ecilop, don't be annoying
[02:32:16] <evil_dan2wik> CluelessZac, same goes for you.
[02:33:59] <CluelessZac> ecilop, evil_dan2wik the Attiny45 datasheet is 235 pages long, and I doubt it'll explain what's wrong here
[02:34:37] <ecilop> CluelessZac: Do you know that all datasheets has index?
[02:34:52] <CluelessZac> ecilop, I don't even know what I'm looking for
[02:35:16] <ecilop> Memory programming section..
[02:40:13] <CluelessZac> ecilop, the programmer should still work...
[02:41:29] <ecilop> maybe your rst pin broken
[02:42:05] <CluelessZac> ecilop, on both new 45 chips?
[02:42:28] <ecilop> cases rarely
[02:42:31] <CluelessZac> I think the programming baud may be too high
[02:42:37] <ecilop> Maybe
[02:43:17] <ecilop> avrdude + avrisp must work with defaults chips
[02:44:18] <CluelessZac> well
[02:44:22] <CluelessZac> thanks, but I need to sleep now
[02:44:26] <CluelessZac> early appointment
[02:46:35] <evil_dan2wik> CluelessZac, go away
[02:46:42] <evil_dan2wik> be Clueless in your sleep
[02:46:47] <evil_dan2wik> wake up with idea in the morning
[03:35:04] <LeoNerd> ATtinies do ISP just the same as ATmegas. They do HV programming as well; though apart from the big 20pin jobbies they all use a serial version instead
[03:35:53] <LeoNerd> A highly amusing protocol that is effectively 11bit dual-lane SPI
[03:44:32] <Tom_itx> CluelessZac, that avrdude error says it can't see the target chip
[03:45:07] <Tom_itx> most attinys use ISP, a handfull like the 4 5 9 10 20 etc use TPI
[03:45:15] <Tom_itx> xmegas use PDI
[03:45:27] <Tom_itx> atmegas use ISP
[03:54:40] <Fleck> what device you use for TPI and PDI ?
[03:55:32] <Tom_itx> my programmer
[03:55:59] <Fleck> link?
[03:56:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[03:56:45] <Tom_itx> does ISP PDI and TPI
[03:57:18] <Tom_itx> with studio or avrdude
[03:57:27] <Tom_itx> on windows linux or osx
[03:57:31] <Fleck> circuit available?
[03:57:51] <Tom_itx> if you have access to my PC
[03:58:03] <Fleck> :D
[03:58:06] <Fleck> share?
[03:58:29] <Tom_itx> i tried that once and somone stole my design and started reproducing them
[03:58:32] <Tom_itx> so naaaa
[03:58:58] <Fleck> :/
[03:58:59] <twnqx> i can RE it easily, there are enough companies specializing on it around here (shenzhen) :3
[03:59:13] <Tom_itx> oh i'm sure
[03:59:28] <evil_dan2wik> Tom_itx, sue them.
[03:59:35] <Fleck> :p
[04:00:02] <evil_dan2wik> get all the money they earned off it, plus all your designs, plus more.
[04:21:10] <malinus> I can vouch for Tom_itx and his programmer :)
[04:21:18] <malinus> (especially the programmer)
[09:17:47] <rue_house> I think toms programmer is the only one with all 3 protos and the fuse recovery
[09:18:14] <LeoNerd> protos?
[09:18:16] <LeoNerd> Oh.. protocols.
[09:18:30] <LeoNerd> Also, 3? Which 3 is that then?
[09:19:25] <twnqx> spi, jtag, hvpi, hvsi?
[09:19:30] <twnqx> wait, that's 4...
[09:19:51] <LeoNerd> TPI
[09:19:55] <antto> "jtag" sounds very german ;P~
[09:19:57] <LeoNerd> (one I learned of only today ;) )
[09:20:30] <twnqx> so german it's ISO specified?
[09:21:33] <kastein> guten jtag
[09:21:39] <antto> >:)
[09:26:42] <cmtptr> fraulein
[09:51:41] <Casper> SPI, TPI, PDI
[09:52:00] <Casper> there is an HVSP adapter for some select tiny
[09:52:21] <Casper> and tom's programmer is stuck in the canadian customs :(
[09:52:29] <Casper> grrr I hate our customs...
[09:52:36] <Jartza> my pcbs are also in customs
[09:52:46] <Jartza> hopefully not stuck for long, I already paid the VATs today
[10:08:03] <synico> tom's programmer eh?
[10:08:09] <synico> does it also do debugging?
[10:08:18] * synico just googles it
[12:46:08] <Tom_itx> synico, no debug.. ISP TPI PDI
[12:46:41] * Tom_itx gives synico an led to debug with
[12:48:43] <antto> wat if there is a bug in the LED /o\
[12:49:11] <antto> an LED that is inverted
[12:49:18] <Tom_L> free engineering calc for android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.electronicproducts.engineeringcalculators
[12:49:39] <Tom_L> for you unfortunate iphone owners you can get it at the I store
[12:49:55] <antto> what about me?
[12:50:07] <Tom_L> get a new phone
[12:50:16] <Tom_L> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/electronicproducts.coms-engineering/id919551753?mt=8
[12:50:21] <antto> mine still works
[12:50:37] <Tom_L> so did mine
[12:50:42] <Tom_L> now it works for me
[12:53:34] * Tom_itx gives antto a pencil and some paper
[12:53:49] <antto> but i haz comput0r
[13:03:15] <LeoNerd> Tom_itx: Ever looked into debugWire?
[13:14:13] <Tom_itx> no
[13:16:02] <Tom_itx> i think Rikusw may have
[13:19:11] <LeoNerd> Mmmmm, yes, I read a thing
[15:40:32] <vanquish> so I'm having a frustrating issue... I have var1, var2, and var3, all type uint32_t
[15:40:51] <vanquish> var3 = (var1+var2)*165
[15:41:09] <vanquish> var3 = <correct answer> mod 65536
[15:41:25] <vanquish> it's like it's truncating to a 16 bit variable
[15:41:49] <vanquish> anybody have any idea why?
[15:42:19] <Jartza> of course depends of the contents of var1 and var2
[15:42:44] <vanquish> why would it? they are 32bit variables
[15:42:56] <vanquish> it's not overflowing
[15:43:14] <vanquish> correct answer is 20bits
[15:43:24] <vanquish> but i only see 16 bits of it
[15:44:11] <Jartza> well, if var1 and var2 have value like "1073741824", I'm pretty sure it will overflow ;)
[15:45:12] <vanquish> alllrighty then, lets use actual case numbers
[15:45:17] <Jartza> then the result would need 39 bits
[15:45:41] <vanquish> var1 =99; var2=0;
[15:45:58] <vanquish> var3 = (99+0) *165;
[15:46:24] <vanquish> printf("fuzzlenuck: %u", var3);
[15:47:03] <Jartza> how about %lu ? :)
[15:47:10] <vanquish> lemme try
[15:48:08] <vanquish> also, >.<
[15:48:28] <vanquish> yeah, %lu looks like the right value
[15:48:37] <Jartza> yeah, unsigned long
[15:48:42] <vanquish> *sigh*
[15:48:55] <vanquish> i don't even want to think about how many hours i just wasted
[15:49:11] <Jartza> your %u made a conversion to unsigned int
[15:49:23] <Jartza> which in avr is most often 16 bit
[15:49:37] <vanquish> %d did the same thing
[15:50:27] <vanquish> or, just makes it negative
[15:50:28] <vanquish> *sigh*
[15:50:36] <vanquish> okay, well that solves that problem.
[15:50:45] <vanquish> Jartza: thank you much, I owe you a beer
[15:50:51] <N1njaneer> Printing really large values (%u %lu %l) seems to have issues in AVR - I always have to break up longs manually to get them to print, especially hex :)
[15:51:02] <vanquish> but since you will never get it, take this internet point worth one gold star and my upvote
[15:51:30] <Jartza> vanquish: no prob :)
[15:52:04] <Jartza> yeah, %d usually is just "int", %d is "unsigned (int)"
[15:52:21] <Jartza> sorry, latter should've been %u
[15:53:00] <Jartza> but then again it also depends of the printf implementation
[15:59:04] <vanquish> man
[15:59:12] <vanquish> i must just really suck at printf
[16:03:19] <vanquish> var3 is type double; printf("test: %f,var3);
[16:03:23] <vanquish> prints test: ?
[16:04:09] <Jartza> %lf ;)
[16:04:23] <vanquish> son of a bitch
[16:04:29] <vanquish> *sigh*
[16:05:15] <Jartza> %f = float, %lf = "long float", meaning double
[16:05:16] <vanquish> hrm, seems not
[16:05:19] <vanquish> still prints ?
[16:05:37] <Jartza> not sure how well avr printf handles them, though
[16:05:49] <Jartza> I never use floats or doubles in avr
[16:06:36] <vanquish> yeah...it's kind of a pain in the arse
[16:07:00] <vanquish> i'm trying to read the temperature of this chip, it reads back 2 bytes
[16:07:19] <vanquish> the conversion formula is
[16:07:35] <Jartza> use fixed point arithmetics?
[16:08:12] <Jartza> ahh yeah, the standard avr libc printf doesn't support floats or doubles
[16:08:18] <vanquish> (HighB[7:0]*64 + LowB[7:2]/4)/2^14*165-40
[16:08:23] <vanquish> ....
[16:08:30] <vanquish> wow...that would have been nice to know
[16:09:20] <vanquish> haven't ever used fixed point math
[16:18:06] <Jartza> Shavik: my second factory made pcbs are currently in customs
[16:18:13] <Jartza> hopefully receiving them tomorrow or day after
[16:18:22] <Shavik> I hope everything works properly :)
[16:18:30] <Jartza> me too :)
[16:18:33] <Shavik> These are like my 4th or 5th batch
[16:18:38] <Jartza> I've already sold the devices :D
[16:18:41] <Shavik> All different designs. oh buddyu
[16:18:45] <Shavik> brave
[16:18:52] <Jartza> and... I need to solder them myself :P
[16:18:56] <Shavik> Part count?
[16:18:58] <Shavik> mostly DIP?
[16:19:03] <Shavik> well through hole. not dip
[16:19:04] <Jartza> didn't have time to fix any assembly service
[16:19:10] <Jartza> never actually thought to sell them
[16:19:17] <Jartza> 5 smd components, rest through hole
[16:19:27] <Shavik> TLC5940 PWP has small pitch :(
[16:19:30] <Jartza> not that complicated no
[16:20:05] <Jartza> little over 20 components, something like 50-60 pins
[16:20:07] <Shavik> We're using the AtMegaUC3 (missing some numbers here I think) and omg, it has so many pins lol
[16:20:30] <Jartza> the idea was to make some nice giveaways for our customers
[16:20:34] <Jartza> and we did
[16:20:40] <Jartza> but then everybody else wanted one too
[16:20:45] <Shavik> lol nice
[16:20:47] <Shavik> what does it do?
[16:20:56] <Jartza> so my boss told me "let's try simple webpage and see how many people want"
[16:21:05] <Jartza> currently I have >300 orders :D
[16:21:10] <Jartza> Shavik:
http://tagsu.io/
[16:21:23] <Shavik> congrats!
[16:22:05] <Shavik> driving a 16x2 with an 85
[16:22:09] <Shavik> that is something i haven't tried yet
[16:22:16] <Shavik> done it with the 328
[16:22:30] <Shavik> I need to make some devices people want to sell
[16:22:37] <Shavik> My day job is making nurse call equipment / devices
[16:22:38] <Shavik> :/
[16:22:46] <Shavik> good experience but I want some stuff outside of work
[16:22:53] <vanquish> that is by far the coolest web page i've seen in a while
[16:23:00] <Shavik> I agree vanquish
[16:23:03] <Shavik> good job on that
[16:23:15] <Jartza> thanks :)
[16:23:21] <Jartza> the editor is still a bit beta though
[16:23:34] <Jartza> but I've only delivered 15 devices so far :D
[16:23:39] <Jartza> because... the PCBs are in customs
[16:24:11] <Jartza> and yes, after the first batch I'll be looking for assembly-service
[16:24:24] <Jartza> but I guess I'll redesign it to be as much smd as possible
[16:24:44] <Jartza> the modem actually seems to impress people quite a lot
[16:24:53] <Shavik> modem, we talking dialup?
[16:24:55] <Shavik> what type of modem
[16:24:57] <Jartza> you can of course try the editor without tagsu even, just don't put volume quite loud
[16:24:59] <vanquish> yeah ^^
[16:25:05] <vanquish> what typfe of modem?
[16:25:06] <Jartza> Shavik: nope, you can update the texts to Tagsu using audio ;)
[16:25:13] <Jartza> just try the editor and hear yourself
[16:25:14] <Shavik> fancy
[16:25:34] <Jartza> then just connect tagsu to headphone plug of your phone/tablet/laptop/pc and press play
[16:25:42] <Shavik> dude thats pretty cool
[16:25:47] <Jartza> <4 seconds and 2kB of user data flashed
[16:26:04] <Shavik> At work, we use a headphone jack (stereo) and use it for serial data to upload new configurations to our devices
[16:26:16] <Shavik> So DB-9 <-> Stereo 1/8" jack
[16:26:21] <Shavik> Not audio tho
[16:26:24] <Shavik> so missing the cool factor
[16:26:35] <vanquish> ah...interesting
[16:26:48] <Shavik> What is the transfer rate of that audio:?
[16:26:52] <Jartza> 12kbps
[16:28:00] <Jartza> although there's a little overhead with Tagsu
[16:28:17] <Jartza> because I send data in blocks, adding block index number and CRC
[16:28:47] <Jartza> and after 4 blocks (64 bytes + overhead) I need to keep 12ms pause for the flash to erase & flash a page
[16:29:01] <Jartza> but I think it's still quite decent speed :D
[16:29:13] <Shavik> does everything you need for short strings
[16:30:02] <Jartza> https://www.dropbox.com/s/40amnapwviu2bsb/20141002_002.jpg?dl=0
[16:30:12] <Jartza> there's a pic of the previous version
[16:30:43] <Shavik> Who made those PCB's?
[16:30:49] <Jartza> hackvana
[16:30:54] <Shavik> Hmm never heard of them
[16:31:04] <Jartza> join #hackvana ;)
[16:31:09] <Jartza> or talk to him here
[16:31:21] <Jartza> or check www.hackvana.com
[16:31:34] <Jartza> the support has been amazing
[16:31:43] <Shavik> We've been using Sunstone/Screaming Circuits
[16:31:44] <Jartza> that's basically first device I ever made
[16:31:44] <Shavik> not the cheapest
[16:31:50] <Shavik> But great quality
[16:31:56] <Shavik> And support is fantastic
[16:32:03] <Shavik> always good to have alternatives
[16:32:04] <Jartza> nice
[16:32:24] <Shavik> We've used RapidPCB in TX, as well as a Chinese manufacturer that currently makes our production devices
[16:32:30] <Jartza> I can honestly say that I couldn't have done that device without all the support from people on #hackvana, and also here
[16:33:03] <Shavik> I've disliked working with China as they like to be liberal in their part selection and choices. Not sticking to the design 100%, etc
[16:33:16] <Shavik> I'm too generic with that statement. but the people i've worked with there have been "difficult"
[16:37:12] <Jartza> well
[16:37:27] <Jartza> I made a short video of the prototype I etched
[16:37:37] <Jartza> which will be the layout of the new PCBs
[16:37:48] <Jartza> just need to upload it, takes a few minutes :)
[16:43:39] <Jartza> I need more upstream :)
[16:55:12] <Jartza> argh
[16:55:20] <Jartza> and then dropbox seem to have gone down
[16:59:12] <Jartza> Shavik, vanquish...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5m1uheib6w131u/20141015_001.mp4?dl=0
[16:59:14] <Jartza> ;)
[17:00:45] <Shavik> Very nice
[17:01:13] <Jartza> but that's just home etched proto
[17:01:23] <Jartza> hopefully the ordered pcbs work as well :)
[17:01:31] <Shavik> I'm now really itching for a personal project so I have an excuse to order some pcb's
[17:04:14] <Jartza> :)
[17:04:22] <Jartza> just beware that you don't end up like me
[17:04:31] <Jartza> I guess I can spend rest of the year soldering
[17:06:43] <Jartza> because of this "small and fun giveaway, that we're gonna make few pieces"
[17:17:01] <Shavik> :) I'm sure its been fun though
[17:17:08] <Jartza> yeah ;)
[17:17:18] <Jartza> a lot of
[17:20:21] <Jartza> never expected my first ever design to be sold anywhere, though
[17:22:13] <Jartza> but well.. time to go to sleep
[19:09:12] <hackvana> Hello folks. Hi Jartza, hi Shavik!
[19:09:23] <hackvana> Jartza: Your vid looks great!
[19:12:35] <Tom_itx> ug
[19:14:41] <Tom_itx> hackvana, do you do steincils yet?
[19:16:04] <N1njaneer> I should start doing stencils :)
[19:16:34] <N1njaneer> Paper stencils work pretty well for short runs of anything 0603 or larger
[19:16:40] <Tom_itx> stainless?
[19:16:53] <Tom_itx> i'm using kapton currently
[19:16:55] <N1njaneer> I outsource all of the stainless stuff.
[19:17:00] <N1njaneer> Kapton laser cuts nicely.
[19:17:17] <Tom_itx> yeah i have a dude that does those for me
[19:17:55] <N1njaneer> Everything else we do as 4-mil stainless since we're doing a lot of really tiny stuff for medium volume.
[19:18:43] <Tom_itx> that would be about the right thickness for most smt right?
[19:19:07] <Tom_itx> brass would be ok
[19:19:59] <N1njaneer> 4 mil works best for us on paste-release and repeatability for very tiny features on the stencil printer.
[19:20:19] <N1njaneer> 5 mil was pushing it without heavily optimizing aperture sizes.
[19:20:33] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure how thick the kapton is
[19:20:37] <Tom_itx> probably 3 mil or so
[19:20:44] <N1njaneer> 3-4 likely
[19:21:08] <Tom_itx> it does a good job
[19:21:28] <Tom_itx> i made a mod and taped over a couple holes without making a new stencil
[19:21:41] <Tom_itx> been working ok but some day i'll need a new one
[19:21:47] <N1njaneer> Everything we get is typically 20 x 20 in a tube frame for production.
[19:21:57] <Tom_itx> right
[19:22:03] <N1njaneer> I in-house cut paper stencils for really short runs of large-aperture parts :)
[19:22:43] <N1njaneer> Lighter-weight paper is usually about 3-4 mils so it works pretty decently.
[19:23:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Stencils/stencil_form3.jpg
[19:23:05] <Tom_itx> that's how i currently do it
[19:23:12] <Tom_itx> machined recess for the board
[19:23:40] <N1njaneer> Nice. That should help nicely for registration!
[19:24:03] <Tom_itx> very much so
[19:24:13] <Tom_itx> i just leave them taped in place
[19:24:18] <Tom_itx> clean good after use
[19:24:41] <Tom_itx> you can barely see the clear packing tape hinge at the tops
[19:25:22] <N1njaneer> Sweet!
[19:25:42] <N1njaneer> We just milled out first enclosures the other day, which was a nice step up here.
[19:25:45] <N1njaneer> +our
[19:27:14] <Tom_itx> on the USB mount pads, the center separator has torn out but it doesn't matter there
[19:27:23] <Tom_itx> it still flows good
[19:27:33] <Tom_itx> the 2 on the left
[19:27:33] <N1njaneer> Do you have a good source for kapton sheetS?
[19:28:23] <Tom_itx> no i just have them made
[19:28:32] <N1njaneer> Gotcha. I'll have to look around.
[19:28:48] <Tom_itx> http://ohararp.com/stencils/
[19:28:53] <N1njaneer> Dupont was nice enough to send me a huge sheet of copper-coated Kaptop for free for doing flex circuit prototyping :D
[19:28:57] <Tom_itx> it's about $300 / lb though
[19:30:39] <N1njaneer> Yeah, McMaster has it for about $30 per 12" x 12" sheet
[19:41:06] <hackvana> Tom_itx: I do indeed:
http://lowpowerlab.com/blog/2014/03/23/getting-more-serious-about-smd-production/
[19:42:40] <hackvana> Stencil8 is a rocking way of aligning the stencil and the PCB.
http://www.hoektronics.com/2012/10/27/super-simple-smt-stencil8/
[19:43:10] <hackvana> Folks give me their design, and I add the tooling rails and add a border and mounting holes to the stencil
[19:44:52] <N1njaneer> hackvana: Not bad! This is similar to what our manual printer looks like. If you can get some pieces that have milled shoulders on them it then allows you to easily do double-sided board runs.
[19:46:27] <N1njaneer> That is a very eloquent and flexible solution, though!
[19:46:35] <hackvana> My customers really like it.
[19:46:45] <hackvana> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=675
[19:48:32] <hackvana> This is a clear stencil (not from me) so you can't see it, but it's still stencil8. I sent the customer the files and he had the stencil made. I supplied the PCBs.
[19:49:17] <N1njaneer> The enclosure we recently did --
https://www.dropbox.com/s/22eacmx8vmhfxm0/enclosure.jpg?dl=0
[19:50:59] <N1njaneer> First thing of significant complexity we've attempted!
[19:52:55] <hackvana> That's pretty nice. What's the material?
[19:53:12] <N1njaneer> 6061 Aluminum
[19:53:24] <N1njaneer> Then an 80-grit bead blast.
[19:53:49] <N1njaneer> This was stopped in process since I found I had a dimension incorrect in the CAD data, but I finished it off to see the end result. Not bad for non-anodized.
[19:54:34] <Tom_itx> cost?
[19:56:33] <N1njaneer> About $10 in aluminum for that chunk of stock
[19:58:11] <Tom_itx> no, for the whole stencik
[19:58:12] <Tom_itx> l
[19:58:24] <Tom_itx> sry, reaching over a pile of crap to the kbd
[19:58:28] <N1njaneer> lol
[19:58:37] <Tom_itx> multitasking
[20:05:23] <Tom_itx> hackvana, what's the average cost for a stencil frame? I have my own mounting system I can use
[20:06:41] <Cykey> Can I use SPI with a 32kHz clock rate?
[20:06:49] <Cykey> I'm trying to minimize current consumption
[20:07:33] <N1njaneer> CyKey: Yes. :)
[20:07:43] <N1njaneer> Or slower. It will just be.... slow!
[20:07:47] <Cykey> That's fine
[20:07:58] <Cykey> I just need to transfer like 20 bytes at most
[20:08:01] <Tom_itx> use a teletype button for the clock
[20:08:01] <hackvana> A frameless "naked" or "stencil8" stencil (19x29cm useable area) is USD30. Framed is USD40.
[20:08:14] <hackvana> Shipping is of course more for a framed stencil.
[20:08:15] <Tom_itx> hackvana, that's not bad
[20:08:21] <N1njaneer> hackvana: What's the forming process?
[20:08:30] <Tom_itx> can i put a couple designs on one and space them apart?
[20:08:33] <hackvana> They are laser-cut.
[20:08:40] <Tom_itx> aluminum?
[20:08:42] <Tom_itx> ss?
[20:08:44] <N1njaneer> Stainless?
[20:08:45] <Cykey> I'm trying to run my atmega328 on two stacked CR2016 batteries (to get ~6V)... is there a better way?
[20:08:45] <hackvana> Stainless steel
[20:08:48] <Tom_itx> cool
[20:08:52] <Cykey> I don't want big 9v batteries
[20:08:52] <Tom_itx> 3 mil?
[20:08:55] <Tom_itx> 4 mil?
[20:09:05] <hackvana> For USD15 you can also have the sidewalls electropolished, which really helps with paste release
[20:09:06] <N1njaneer> hackvana: Post-electropolished?
[20:09:10] <hackvana> Yes
[20:09:26] <hackvana> Tom_itx: Multiple designs no problem.
[20:09:38] <Tom_itx> so a blank SS plate is 30 USD?
[20:09:41] <N1njaneer> Cykey: Yes, use a boost converter - CR2016's will wear down to unusable levels very quickly even though the battery isn't dead.
[20:09:44] <Tom_itx> no frame...
[20:10:08] <hackvana> A SS sheet laser cut with whatever you want is USD30. Add USD15 for electropolishing.
[20:10:17] <Tom_itx> that's not bad
[20:10:21] <hackvana> 0.10mm, 0.12mm, 0.13mm, 0.15mm
[20:10:22] <N1njaneer> Cykey: 3V is specified only when the battery is COMPLETELY brand new. They will quickly drop off to 1-2V under normal load and use. A boost converter will fix the problem.
[20:10:35] <Tom_itx> i don't think these designs will change now.. next order maybe i'll have you make one
[20:10:45] <Tom_itx> how do i tell you how to space the designs?
[20:10:52] <N1njaneer> hackvana: Who's laser cutter if you don't mind me asking? LPKF, etc?
[20:10:55] <hackvana> You can do it yourself with gerbv
[20:10:59] <Tom_itx> ok
[20:11:00] <hackvana> Yes, LPKF
[20:11:23] <N1njaneer> The fiber-laser model? How do you like it?
[20:11:24] <Tom_itx> does polishing make that much difference?
[20:11:25] <hackvana> Come see me in #hackvana when you get closer.
[20:11:41] <Cykey> N1njaneer: are boost converters complex? I'm not very good with electric stuff ;P
[20:11:47] <hackvana> Electropolishing makes a great deal of difference if you have fine pitch parts.
[20:12:07] <hackvana> 0.5mm pitch is borderline. Finer pitch and you need electropolishing.
[20:12:27] <Tom_itx> nothing real fine
[20:12:40] <Tom_itx> you've seen the files :)
[20:12:45] <hackvana> Yes
[20:12:58] <hackvana> Tom_itx's programmers are very nice :-)
[20:13:01] <Cykey> N1njaneer: Also, space is a problem... The whole project needs to fit in a small area
[20:13:13] <N1njaneer> CyKey: Not particularly. The appnotes and datasheets are very straightforward these days. Generally a cap, diode, coil, and a couple resistors and that's it.
[20:13:48] <N1njaneer> Cykey: You can make them super compact.
[20:15:07] <N1njaneer> But do look at a boost converter, for sure. CR's are very hard to work with elsewise.
[20:15:31] <Tom_itx> at least with SS i won't have to worry about tearing the stencil
[20:15:42] <Cykey> N1njaneer: Are there other types of batteries that would be OK?
[20:15:58] <hackvana> Indeed
[20:16:15] <Tom_itx> i've gotten good mileage with these kapton ones though
[20:16:35] <hackvana> Some of the high altitude balloon guys are getting long run times out of a single AAA
[20:17:38] <hackvana> There's more energy in a AAA than a CR2016, and if you're already looking to have a boost converter, 1.5V is no problem.
[20:18:46] <Cykey> http://hackaday.com/2009/07/07/avr-boost-converter/
[20:18:48] <Cykey> thoughts?
[20:19:39] <N1njaneer> Good starting point!
[20:20:24] <N1njaneer> If you can spare some additional space, A123's are rediculously power-dense and a third of the size of a AA
[20:24:17] <Cykey> So, like, instead of taking space building a boost converter
[20:24:24] <Cykey> I could use that space for a 9V battery, lol
[20:26:52] <N1njaneer> The boost converter should easily fit in a 1cm-sq area of board real-estate
[20:29:44] <Cykey> N1njaneer: Which IC do you recommend?
[20:30:45] <N1njaneer> TI makes a lot of great ones.
[20:32:31] <N1njaneer> Sorry, hold on, was thinking of something else.
[20:33:05] <N1njaneer> Try the NCP1402 from ON Semi. SOT-23-6 package, needs two caps, coil, and a diode. Tiiiiiny.
[20:33:16] <N1njaneer> Have used that one before on designs. Works well.
[20:36:09] <Cykey> and I can get a good 5V output from a CR2032 battery from that?
[20:36:44] <N1njaneer> I think I was using 3.3V - use a lower voltage on the micro if you don't need high-speed
[20:37:07] <Cykey> "use a lower voltage on the micro if you don't need high-speed" what do you mean?
[20:37:45] <N1njaneer> AVR's will run fine at 3.3V or lower, but you are limited by the maximum clock speed. i.e. 8Mhz for 3.3V, 16-20Mhz for 5V, etc
[20:38:59] <N1njaneer> But if you're only running at 32.768Khz or such for super low power, voltage shouldn't be an issue.
[20:39:13] <N1njaneer> But depends on your applications and what the micro has to talk to :)
[20:39:32] <Cykey> The reason why I need 5V is because my 16x2 SPI LCD uses 5V
[20:40:07] <N1njaneer> Sure it won't run on 3.3V?
[20:41:08] <Cykey> N1njaneer:
http://www.newhavendisplay.com/specs/NHD-0216K3Z-NSW-BBW-V3.pdf
[20:41:13] <Cykey> See page 5
[20:41:24] <Cykey> unless I'm reading it wrong, it says min. voltage 4.7V :(
[20:41:41] <N1njaneer> And you're trying to run that from a CR cell?
[20:41:47] <Cykey> ...yes
[20:41:56] <Cykey> that might seem stupid
[20:41:58] <Cykey> lol
[20:42:02] <N1njaneer> The backlight is going to consume a LOT of battery
[20:42:13] <Cykey> no backlight
[20:43:29] <N1njaneer> I would measure the current draw of the display to make sure it's not going to suck things dry :)
[20:45:14] <Cykey> I don't have it here
[20:46:56] <N1njaneer> Experiment!
[20:47:00] <N1njaneer> What is the application?
[20:47:06] <Cykey> Calculator
[20:47:10] <Cykey> ;P
[20:47:16] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I have question, my friend
[20:48:06] <Cykey> N1njaneer: The thing is, I could use a 3.3v parallel LCD (there are tons of these), but I'd like to use as few inputs as possible
[20:49:42] <N1njaneer> Hey Jeremy!
[20:50:15] <Cykey> N1njaneer: Here are the pins that I need (I/O): 1 analog input for the VKey voltage keypad (
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12080), 5 digital inputs for +, -, *, /, =, 1 UART TX, and then all the outputs for a parallel LCD
[20:50:22] <Cykey> think an atmega168 can provide all of that?
[20:50:56] <N1njaneer> Should be able to, yes.
[20:51:13] <N1njaneer> Also, start with a 328 and work your way down. Only difference is in code-size and RAM.
[20:51:30] <N1njaneer> If your final application winds up smaller, keep moving down to smaller devices. Pin-for-pin compatibile
[20:55:58] <Tom_itx> CluelessZac?
[20:56:31] <Cykey> N1njaneer: Oh, I have one of these!
https://www.adafruit.com/product/338
[20:56:36] <Cykey> That'll work
[20:56:44] <Cykey> A bit harder to use. but eh!
[20:56:46] <Casper> Tom_itx: package is now in canada, shall be here friday
[20:56:51] <N1njaneer> There you go!
[20:56:54] <Tom_itx> u hope!
[20:58:27] <Tom_itx> friggin surface pro3
[20:58:38] <Tom_itx> had to reinstall because of a bug
[20:58:42] <Casper> :D
[20:59:11] <Tom_itx> if you push the windows button and the ^ volume it turns on the narator
[20:59:14] <Tom_itx> but
[20:59:40] <Tom_itx> the windows button sticks randomly in firmware so if you push the volume button it randomly turns it on and off
[21:00:28] <Casper> hehe
[21:00:40] <Casper> those functions shouln't be mapped by default
[21:00:54] <Tom_itx> they shouldn't exhist
[21:01:37] <Casper> oh they need to exist... but they shouln't be mapped like that
[21:01:43] <Tom_itx> they are kinda nice though
[21:01:56] <Tom_itx> i don't use one but own some
[21:02:26] <Tom_itx> detachable kbd is nice but i hate the feel of the kbd
[21:02:45] <Casper> so... since the package will be here friday... I need to do a digikey by thursday...
[21:02:51] <Casper> before 7pm..
[21:02:54] <Tom_itx> mine is on hold
[21:03:06] <Tom_itx> waiting for hammondmfg
[21:03:39] <Tom_itx> the kbd & power charge cord are both magnetically coupled
[21:03:50] <Tom_itx> err attached?
[21:09:20] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I'm trying to program a Attiny45 with your programmer. The programmer works fine on the arduino ISP header, but for some reason I keep getting errors with the 45
[21:09:32] <CluelessZac> avrdude: stk500v2_program_enable(): bad AVRISPmkII connection status: Unknown status 0x00
[21:09:32] <CluelessZac> avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1
[21:09:42] <Tom_itx> is it wired right?
[21:09:52] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I've rewired iit 4 times.
[21:10:17] <Tom_itx> vcc & gnd right?
[21:10:23] <CluelessZac> yessir
[21:10:38] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, well, I was doing it vcc and gnd to programmer only
[21:11:00] <Tom_itx> that should still be ok
[21:11:03] <CluelessZac> it works on the arduino isp header, burns, swap to attiny45, change to attiny45 fuses/hex and try to burn, nothing
[21:11:05] <Tom_itx> pullup on reset?
[21:11:20] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I don't have equipment to test it, but it works on the other platform.
[21:11:22] <Tom_itx> something in your setup
[21:11:30] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I've tried two different 45s
[21:12:03] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I'll try some more. Thanks though. :P
[21:12:17] <Tom_itx> i'm looking at the data sheet
[21:15:12] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I'm currently using the arduino software with the github attiny master library
[21:15:33] <CluelessZac> Having trouble getting atmel studio to work at all, but that may just be drivers
[21:15:47] <Tom_itx> drivers are a pain on it
[21:15:50] <Tom_itx> sometimes
[21:16:01] <Tom_itx> were you using avrdude on windows?
[21:16:19] <Tom_itx> we need to establish where you're at first
[21:17:22] <Tom_itx> pin1 on the programmer is going to pin 6 on the chip?
[21:17:41] <Tom_itx> pin4 on the programmer is going to pin 5 on the chip?
[21:18:07] <Tom_itx> pin3 on the programmer is going to pin 7 on the chip?
[21:18:30] <Tom_itx> pin5 on the programmer is going to pin 1 on the chip?
[21:18:42] <Tom_itx> and vcc & gnd
[21:18:55] <Tom_itx> 2 & 6 on the programmer
[21:19:40] <Tom_itx> assuming it's a DIP part
[21:21:50] * Tom_itx waits
[21:35:38] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, dude, I'm sorry
[21:36:02] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, yes, Avrdude/windows
[21:36:07] <Tom_itx> ok
[21:36:19] <Tom_itx> first of all you need different firmware on the programmer to do that
[21:36:38] <Tom_itx> it's an issue with windows and the jungo and libusb drivers
[21:36:39] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, how the hell is it working with arduino then? :?
[21:36:44] <Tom_itx> no idea
[21:37:02] <Tom_itx> you know you can use avrdude from their package?
[21:37:08] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I have jungo and libusb drivers so I can easily switch between the two, I can't find the firmware
[21:37:28] <Tom_itx> is studio working?
[21:37:40] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, no, not even with the jungo drivers
[21:37:47] <Tom_itx> it took me days once to get the drives ironed out when switching back and forth once
[21:38:11] <Tom_itx> i would suggest picking one or the other and sticking with it
[21:38:24] <CluelessZac> arduino for now
[21:38:35] <Tom_itx> ok then you need to upload different firmware on the programmer
[21:38:38] <Tom_itx> it's on my site
[21:38:39] <CluelessZac> I'll wind up swapping back to atmel studio once I'm warmed up
[21:38:44] <Tom_itx> you'll need FLIP to do it
[21:38:52] <CluelessZac> could you link me, I'm having trouble navigating to the firmware
[21:38:55] <CluelessZac> have flip
[21:38:55] <Tom_itx> from atmel's site
[21:38:57] <Tom_itx> ok
[21:39:51] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[21:39:54] <Tom_itx> at the bottom
[21:40:17] <Tom_itx> you want the latest 13-10-27 files
[21:40:39] <Tom_itx> and you want to load the 131027 avrdude-5.10 version
[21:40:59] <Tom_itx> get them all from the rar file
[21:41:47] <Tom_itx> you don't need either of the rescue files
[21:42:15] <Tom_itx> if you use studio you will need to reload the 131027 windows studio version
[21:42:23] <Tom_itx> which is the default one
[21:42:40] <Tom_itx> for some reason it works with avrdude under linux just fine
[21:42:47] <Tom_itx> it's the windows drivers issue
[21:42:53] <Tom_itx> that causes the problem
[21:43:31] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_User_manual_index.php
[21:43:38] <Tom_itx> instructions for uploading it are there
[21:45:42] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, hm, trying to program, the led next to the program checkbox in flip turns red
[21:46:03] <CluelessZac> it erases though
[21:46:28] <Tom_itx> did you push the program button on the programmer?
[21:46:33] <CluelessZac> yes
[21:46:40] <Tom_itx> select atmega32U2 as the chip
[21:46:47] <CluelessZac> yup
[21:46:48] <Tom_itx> make sure the file is selected
[21:46:57] <Tom_itx> open the usb port
[21:47:00] <CluelessZac> yup yup
[21:47:10] <Tom_itx> RUN
[21:47:16] <Tom_itx> then Start Application
[21:47:18] <Tom_itx> to reset it
[21:47:44] <Tom_itx> you may also need to install the usb driver for FLIP
[21:47:52] <Tom_itx> it's separate from the others
[21:48:03] <CluelessZac> it detects the chip atuomatically
[21:49:01] <Tom_itx> with the button pushed, all the leds on the programmer are out
[21:49:51] <CluelessZac> yup
[21:50:04] <CluelessZac> I hit run, they're all gree, program turns red
[21:50:07] <CluelessZac> verify blank
[21:50:51] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, wtf, it programmed that time
[21:50:57] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:51:03] <CluelessZac> took 10 tries, but it suddenly took
[21:51:07] <Tom_itx> odd
[21:51:08] <CluelessZac> restarting flip over and over
[21:51:15] <Tom_itx> maybe the cable is flakey
[21:51:20] <Tom_itx> who knows
[21:51:39] <Tom_itx> so the leds are back on?
[21:51:57] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, yup
[21:52:05] <Tom_itx> ok try avrdude now
[21:52:12] <Tom_itx> make sure the driver is installed
[21:52:20] <Tom_itx> or use the one from arduino
[21:52:25] <Tom_itx> i've done that
[21:53:48] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, brb, weirdly having to restart
[21:54:09] <Tom_itx> friggin drivers
[21:57:43] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, yay
[21:59:24] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, yay I'm back, oh no, no dice
[21:59:35] <Tom_itx> now what?
[21:59:45] <Tom_itx> i'm betting a driver issue
[22:01:00] <Tom_itx> avrdude -c avrisp2 -p t45 -U lfuse:r:con:r -U hfuse:r:con:r
[22:01:04] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I've had this working in the past, it's driving me insane
[22:01:06] <Tom_itx> will read the fuses to the console
[22:01:17] <Tom_itx> lfuse anyway
[22:01:34] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/using_avrdude_index.php
[22:02:12] <Tom_itx> just don't mix drivers and firmware versions or you'll get nowhere on windows
[22:02:32] <Tom_itx> it's a PITA to get it back right again!
[22:02:51] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, :P
[22:03:06] <Tom_itx> i'm relatively sure that's the issue right now
[22:03:14] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, so with the latest firmware I have to have the latest driver?
[22:03:27] <CluelessZac> like libusbv1 != firmwarev2
[22:03:31] <Tom_itx> with the firmware i suggested you want libusb as the usb driver
[22:03:36] <CluelessZac> but libusbv2 == firmwarev2
[22:03:43] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, it is
[22:03:46] <CluelessZac> currently
[22:04:05] <Tom_itx> where does the programmer show up in the hardware device list?
[22:04:52] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, maybe 32 bit libusb driver versus 64 bit windows?
[22:05:01] <Tom_itx> very likely
[22:05:02] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, Atmel USB devices
[22:05:09] <Tom_itx> if you're running 64bit
[22:05:21] <Tom_itx> i haven't tested every iteration of it
[22:05:29] <CluelessZac> I'll test for you. :d
[22:05:32] <Tom_itx> heh
[22:05:53] <Tom_itx> are you gonna use plain avrs more or arduino?
[22:06:11] <Tom_itx> i'd almost suggest using jungo and going back to the original firmware
[22:06:18] <Tom_itx> for normal avrs
[22:06:26] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, right now I'm in a transition
[22:06:30] <Tom_itx> i still use studio4 just for uploading files
[22:06:42] <Tom_itx> it's alot leaner than studio6
[22:06:59] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I actually started with arduino, so I know it more than anything else, but it's hidden a lot of the inner workings away from me, so I don't understand many of the concepts I maybe should
[22:07:06] <CluelessZac> like eeprom versus flash memory
[22:07:10] <Tom_itx> exactly.
[22:07:27] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, so I'm in a transition between arduino and atmel studio
[22:07:30] <Tom_itx> now you're lost
[22:07:49] <Tom_itx> well cut the cord...
[22:07:54] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, Also, I've started a business venture (worth a shitload of money) I need to deliver a commercially viable board
[22:08:03] <Tom_itx> you'll learn alot more with plain vanilla avrs
[22:08:08] <CluelessZac> so I'm scrambling.
[22:08:21] <Tom_itx> never practice under pressure
[22:08:54] <Tom_itx> does the firmware use arduino libs?
[22:09:21] <Tom_itx> you can still get the .hex file ( with a little digging ) from arduino and upload it with studio
[22:09:24] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, good point, I figured I could throw together proof of concepts and first versions under arduino, and refine it into more my own baby with atmel studio
[22:09:36] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, which firmware?
[22:09:42] <Tom_itx> you'd be better off starting off clean
[22:10:12] <Tom_itx> does your code use arduino libs is what i was asking
[22:10:38] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, Barring any legalities I may be skipping over at the moment, it will be at first.
[22:11:06] <CluelessZac> My plan is to transition away from/revise/refine. Also, I don't like relying on other code I don't know. I'd rather rewrite everything and better understand it.
[22:11:58] <Tom_itx> then i'd set things up to use studio
[22:12:02] <Tom_itx> and stick with it
[22:12:09] <Tom_itx> just bite the bullet
[22:13:50] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, atmel studio actually has arduino libraries specifically for the purpose of transitioning over.
[22:18:18] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, Unable to connect to tool AVRISP mkII (000200212345) with atmel studio jungo drivers, and atmel studio firmware via flip
[22:18:37] <CluelessZac> on either atmega328p or attiny45
[22:20:16] <Tom_itx> did you change the firmware on the programmer back?
[22:21:01] <Tom_itx> if you're gonna use studio you need the original firmware back on it
[22:21:28] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I did
[22:21:30] <Tom_itx> go in hardware settings and force the driver change and select the one in the FLIP directory for it
[22:21:41] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, I think windows 8.1 64 is just a nightmare with this driver BS
[22:21:50] <CluelessZac> but the thing is, everyone uses 64bit now
[22:21:50] <Tom_itx> windows is a PITA for driver changes
[22:22:07] <Tom_itx> you can force it i think
[22:22:14] <Tom_itx> it may be stubborn...
[22:22:25] <Tom_itx> but that's what needs to happen
[22:23:17] <Tom_itx> once you do that reinstall studio so the jungo driver gets back in place
[22:23:38] <Tom_itx> i know it's a pain but i had to do that once just to get things back like they should be
[22:24:57] <Tom_itx> it _will_ work, just be patient...
[22:28:06] <CluelessZac> Tom_itx, it's showing the jungo driver as in place
[22:28:16] <CluelessZac> it *appears* to be switching drivers fine...
[22:28:35] <Tom_itx> does the programmer show up under the jungo driver in hardware?
[22:28:42] <Tom_itx> if it does, it's installed right
[22:29:06] <Tom_itx> if not, libusb is still holding on to it
[22:30:08] <Tom_itx> gotta get some sleep now.
[22:30:29] <CluelessZac> Thanks though1
[22:30:51] <Tom_itx> lemme know how it goes
[22:32:23] <N1njaneer> Whew. FINALLY.... My SAMD20 is finally dumping stuff out the UART.
