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[07:56:09] <GuShH> Tom_itx: was it you who used PET bottles for heatshrinking cells or something like that?
[07:56:10] <GuShH> got a link?
[07:57:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> I want to use milk jugs to make filament for a 3d printer.
[07:57:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> I want to make a 3d printer first,,,but,,
[07:57:58] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm looking at a possible computer tech/admin job for a local school district. the highschool has several 3d printers.
[07:58:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> which I would be able to use after hours if I got the job.
[08:02:06] <GuShH> Lambda_Aurigae: not simple to do it in a controlled manner, the filament that is
[08:02:11] <Roklobsta> how robust are things made on 3d printers? any decent compressive, shear and tension strength?
[08:02:26] <GuShH> depends on material, fill rates, etc.
[08:02:31] <GuShH> usually not that good, Roklobsta.
[08:02:47] <GuShH> the time it takes to print an almost solid part, is just ridiculous.
[08:02:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> GuShH, I've seen several filament extruders you can buy and/or build...I know it's more an art than a science making it at home though.
[08:02:57] <GuShH> they're trash sir.
[08:03:09] <GuShH> you can poop out plastic spaghetti with basic tools
[08:03:11] <Roklobsta> i never used one but I see how 3d parts are being used in mechanically stressfull situations and i can't image the layers are bonded all that well.
[08:03:21] <GuShH> but a consistent filament is hard to achieve without a lot of babysitting at home
[08:03:38] <GuShH> Roklobsta: they usually aren't, but that's due to operator fault
[08:03:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> GuShH, yeah, can imagine...but would be a funzie project I think.
[08:03:45] <GuShH> totally fun
[08:03:50] <GuShH> in fact, it's on my to-do list
[08:03:55] <GuShH> well, my-attempt list.
[08:04:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm thinking of something to cut costs for quickyprints at the school actually.
[08:04:20] <GuShH> there's a guy with promosing results using a cooling bath and a roller based puller but he has no feedback built in for the diameter
[08:04:23] <GuShH> he just dials it in, old school.
[08:04:24] <Roklobsta> whatever happened to the laser/fluid 3d printers?
[08:04:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> run milk jugs through a shredder then melt and extrude.
[08:04:38] <GuShH> you need to clean the jugs very well first
[08:04:42] <GuShH> get rid of foreign material
[08:04:50] <Roklobsta> yeah, no smelly milk allowed.
[08:04:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> Roklobsta, they still exist...in fact, are making a comeback.
[08:05:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..part of the process would be cleaning them somehow
[08:05:11] <Roklobsta> Lambda_Aurigae: i would have thought they would be better than the extrision printers.
[08:05:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was thinking a strip shredder first then a wash then a crosscut shredder.
[08:05:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> Roklobsta, much better...more expensive to run....UV resin printers.
[08:05:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> or laser resin printers..
[08:05:49] <GuShH> Lambda_Aurigae: easier to clean the shredded bits with a power washing cycle inside a drum with a drainage, just hooking up an import power washer to the top, would work if you can tumble the parts....
[08:05:54] <GuShH> but the raw material is also cheap
[08:05:59] <GuShH> consider buying a huge bag instead
[08:06:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was thinking a milk jug drive at the school..
[08:06:30] <GuShH> I get the whole concept of recycling, it just doesn't work very well on a small scale, it costs more.
[08:06:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> kids could bring them in and drop them in a bin outside.
[08:06:46] <GuShH> and most of what you see of recycled material has virgin material added to it
[08:06:50] <GuShH> except maybe for lead heh
[08:07:12] <GuShH> Lambda_Aurigae: bring them CLEAN
[08:07:31] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah..at least a rinse out first.
[08:07:32] <Roklobsta> yeah the council hate it when i put lead in the yellow bin.
[08:07:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> it's just an idea I'm tossing through my twisted skull.
[08:07:56] <GuShH> we used to recycle aluminum cans at school, they would sell them to the local smelter... I think they would compress and heat dry them before they could use them
[08:08:03] <GuShH> cans in general are nice aluminum but terrible to melt
[08:08:18] <Roklobsta> we used cans at school to smelt ourselves for casting.
[08:08:27] <GuShH> but all we had to do was crush them on the crusher and it would fall inside the bin, that was our part.
[08:08:41] <GuShH> (instead of throwing them onto other bins, or leaving them around)
[08:09:07] <GuShH> some guy would pick them up and resell to the smelter/s
[08:09:08] <GuShH> heh
[08:09:27] <GuShH> probably shred them first, or compress them further.
[08:09:38] <GuShH> problem is the surface area and the coatings
[08:11:45] <Jartza> in finland we have no extra cans
[08:11:51] <GuShH> aw
[08:11:54] <GuShH> why is that?
[08:12:16] <Jartza> the recycling is countrywide and well organized
[08:12:17] <GuShH> I do stock pile aluminum shavings from machining, but I don't know what to do wit hthem
[08:12:23] <GuShH> surface area is even bigger than on cans
[08:12:30] <GuShH> Jartza: that's good
[08:12:46] <GuShH> so what can I do with bags upon bags of aluminum swarf?
[08:13:05] <GuShH> if you don't do it under a special atmosphere they would just oxidize and turn to dust if you tried melting them
[08:13:22] <Jartza> you buy can of soda/beer/cider from store, each can has 0.15EUR deposit in price
[08:13:57] <Roklobsta> GuShH: make thermite
[08:14:03] <GuShH> ah yeah
[08:14:06] <Jartza> and all grocery stores have machines where you return the empty cans
[08:14:09] <GuShH> bottles here are like that
[08:14:11] <GuShH> at least for beer...
[08:14:17] <GuShH> 1 usd a pop, so you send them back
[08:14:27] <Jartza> and then you get the money back
[08:14:28] <GuShH> they do have machines that pick up the bottles and print out a ticket
[08:14:48] <GuShH> Jartza: yeah I've seen the cans range up to 50 cent of an EUR in Germany and such
[08:14:53] <GuShH> I used to buy lots of import beer
[08:14:55] <Roklobsta> the good old Pfand in Germany. I remember taking my crates of beer back to the shop.
[08:15:05] <Jartza> yeah, bottles have the deposit too, plastic and even glass bottles
[08:15:05] <GuShH> nice
[08:15:30] <GuShH> I have like 40 glass bottles and no desire to buy 40 beers...
[08:15:36] <GuShH> they won't let you just send them in and get the money back
[08:15:42] <GuShH> you have to buy the same amount of beer back!
[08:15:50] <GuShH> it used to be you could just get the money and be done with it
[08:15:59] <GuShH> they just want the bottles, right? now they want you to buy the product and the bottles.
[08:16:00] <Jartza> the machine accepts all of them and automatically sorts them
[08:16:06] <GuShH> yeah it's neat how it works
[08:16:13] <GuShH> it tells you the brand of the beer and the size
[08:16:20] <GuShH> using optical recognition
[08:16:29] <GuShH> and weigh sensor to tell if it's within the empty range
[08:16:56] <Jartza> aluminium is crashed, plastic gets shredded and glass is just thrown to big container
[08:17:15] <GuShH> the glass ones go into boxes for 12 bottles (don't know the name)
[08:17:35] <GuShH> these are sorting units, nothing special. the boxes get picked up by a truck and sent to the plant
[08:17:54] <Jartza> GuShH: and at least here, in addition it reads barcode, which must be intact
[08:18:08] <GuShH> heh
[08:18:13] <GuShH> for the beer bottles it doesn't, here.
[08:18:17] <GuShH> but it can tell if it's a full bottle
[08:18:19] <GuShH> (I've tried it)
[08:18:47] <GuShH> I thought "I bet the script kiddie who wrote this code didn't account for someone grabbing a bunch of new beers from the shelf and throwing them into the machine, to get free money"
[08:18:47] <Jartza> it accepts cans without barcode too, but won't return any money
[08:19:25] <Jartza> lot of people here visit estonia to buy beer
[08:19:25] <GuShH> so anyway who knows what may be inside the bar stock I buy
[08:19:29] <GuShH> maybe your old lawn chair?
[08:20:52] <Jartza> and beer from estonia doesn't have deposit, that's why the barcode
[08:21:43] <Jartza> cans can still be returned though, but no money is given back
[08:22:45] <Jartza> GuShH: for that empty/full reason those machines usually are outside the shopping area :)
[08:23:16] <Jartza> but there were some kids using string to pull the bottle back
[08:23:29] <GuShH> hahaha
[08:24:04] <Jartza> after they got caught, they fixed the machines to prevent that :)
[09:17:29] <cm_ms> hi
[09:20:03] <mux_> yo dawg
[09:23:57] <cm_ms> short question: I have problems with my avr project. I am trying to get dmx-data into my 2313 while using the internal oscillator.
[09:25:06] <cm_ms> while connected to a static 5v power supply everything works fine. but if i connect the +5 to a smps (12V -> 7805 -> yC) there seem to be some usart issues
[09:27:43] <twnqx> how many capacitors (on both sides of the 7805), and per power pin of the 2313?
[09:30:04] <CoolBear> When in doubt, MOAR CAPS!
http://i.imgur.com/TfagHWt.jpg
[09:30:19] <cm_ms> i'll try that. thanks :)
[09:32:55] <twnqx> cm_ms: rule of thumb, 100nF ceramic on each power pin, and for the 7805... i'd probably put 150µF aluminium caps on each side
[09:33:50] <twnqx> with a SMPS on the input you might even want to add some smaller one there, 1µF-10µF
[09:33:56] <twnqx> (in parallel)
[10:00:29] <cm_ms> I added an aluminum cap (100u) to the output of the 7805 and a 1u ceramic and it works now. Thank you
[10:15:47] <CoolBear> Sweet \o/
[11:37:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> cm_ms, the internal oscillator will vary frequency with input voltage...and a noisy power supply will do nasty things to it too.
[15:47:39] <mux_> my life is complete!
[15:47:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> finally get a girlfriend?
[15:48:22] <mux_> no man, have had one for 8 years already
[15:48:28] <mux_> I finally beat FTL on hard
[15:48:36] <mux_> the galaxy is saved!
[15:48:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> no clue what that is nor how it would complete someone's life.
[15:49:08] <mux_> in that case I predict many hundreds of hours of completely lost time in your future
[15:49:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah. I am married after all.
[15:50:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> and, we now have cable TV.
[15:50:29] <mux_> well, that too
[15:50:32] <Lambda_Aurigae> so, lots of lost time.
[15:50:50] <mux_> well, if you ever see a game called FTL on sale, buy it and play it
[15:50:55] <mux_> your life will change dramatically
[15:51:23] <mux_> you will gain at least 50 pounds, ignore all family activities and fail to show up at work for a couple of weeks
[15:51:32] <mux_> then emerge victorious with the same phrase I just uttered
[15:51:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> being,,Faster Than Light ??
[15:51:39] <mux_> or die painfully
[15:51:47] <mux_> yes
[15:52:11] <Lambda_Aurigae> doesn't look very interesting.
[15:52:30] <mux_> let me ask you a question
[15:52:37] <mux_> do you like embedded electronics?
[15:52:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> of course.
[15:52:57] <mux_> (this is just the lead-in question)
[15:52:58] <mux_> alright
[15:53:01] <mux_> do you have emotions?
[15:53:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> barely.
[15:53:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> looking at the website, it just doesn't look interesting.
[15:53:34] <mux_> hm, in that case you might be one of the few humans (are you human?) who might not completely get addicted to FTL
[15:53:47] <mux_> I should have started with the human questino
[15:53:48] <Lambda_Aurigae> I've never claimed to be human.
[15:53:50] <mux_> *question
[15:53:53] <mux_> sorry
[15:54:01] <mux_> classic noob questionnaire
[15:56:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> there are very few games I enjoy.
[15:56:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> I play with Kerbal once in a while.
[15:57:15] <Lambda_Aurigae> And every 6 months or so I do a month of x-plane flightsim.
[15:58:03] <Lambda_Aurigae> then once every few moons I join in an IRC based WoD game.
[16:04:50] <mux_> well, I'm not too different
[16:04:57] <mux_> I mostly play whatever feels most like electronics
[16:05:06] <mux_> which boils down to things like space engineers and minecraft
[16:05:17] <mux_> and ftl, because then I feel like I'm a captain in star trek
[16:05:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah...I futz with minecraft here and there as well...
[16:05:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> haven't touched that in several months though.
[16:05:38] <mux_> I mostly... watch people play minecraft nowadays
[16:05:48] <mux_> much like it started as well
[16:06:01] <mux_> probably watched at least an order of magnitude more than I played
[16:06:40] <mux_> but yeah, it's pretty much impossible to get around minecraft these days if you're even the least bit interested in stuff and things and shit
[16:08:23] <mux_> now, can somebody help me magically fix this problem I've been trying to solve for a friggin week?
[16:08:36] <Lambda_Aurigae> what's the problem?
[16:09:00] <mux_> trying to port LUFA mass storage bootloader to XMEGA
[16:09:13] <mux_> my problem: all of it
[16:09:21] <mux_> proposed solution: magic wand
[16:10:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> hmm...not my cup of tea there. I have no xmega devices nor have I worked with LUFA other than using it in something premade.
[16:10:30] <mux_> at this moment I highly doubt it's something to do with my LUFA porting
[16:10:44] <mux_> I am getting mixed results even just moving code from application to bootloader flash
[16:10:55] <Lambda_Aurigae> abcminiuser is the only one I know of who could help on that.
[16:11:30] <mux_> I know, but he hasn't been around for a while and I do kind of want to fix it before he returns (which is probably monday)
[16:11:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> I know Tom_itx knows something of LUFA but not sure how much.
[16:12:08] <mux_> do you know anything about bootloaders?
[16:12:11] <mux_> in general
[16:12:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> on AVR and PIC, yeah.
[16:12:28] <mux_> because I'm even just struggling with that apparently
[16:13:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> not sure I understand the xmega bootloader system though.
[16:13:38] <mux_> I thought, and this may be my downfall, that programming a bootloader is basically nothing else but shifting the code to a higher flash address and jumping to that address instead of 0x00 on boot
[16:14:25] <mux_> and, in the case of AVR, if you're using interrupts those also need to be separately instructed to execute from that range of memory (IVSEL in PMIC.CTRL in the case of xmega)
[16:14:27] <mux_> that's it
[16:14:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> on the regular avr you turn on the bootloader system and usually shift the interrupt table to the bootloader interrupt table.
[16:14:55] <mux_> yeah, so...
[16:15:04] <mux_> my simple mind says
[16:15:25] <mux_> W1, --section-start=.text=0x20000 on the linker
[16:15:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> then when the bootloader is done it switches stuff back over to the regular code and interrupt table.
[16:15:51] <mux_> and do a CCP_IOREG call on PMIC.CTRL = PMIC_IVSEL_bm
[16:15:53] <mux_> but
[16:16:05] <mux_> then I take some working code in application
[16:16:24] <mux_> move it over to bootloader, put the fuse settings to boot from the bootloader section, move over the interrupt table
[16:16:29] <mux_> and my code works differently!
[16:16:39] <mux_> not all of it
[16:16:43] <mux_> but some
[16:16:55] <mux_> you know what
[16:17:03] <mux_> I am having a minor epiphany just talking to you
[16:17:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> I tend to do that to people...the pain will subside by midnight.
[16:17:32] <mux_> I'm using an atxmega128a4u which has an address space that is too large for a 16-bit pointer in the z-register
[16:17:54] <mux_> maybe I'm supposed to look at functions that try to read from flash and make them use the rampz register
[16:18:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> very possible.
[16:18:41] <mux_> that's the only thing that I can think of that may be different
[16:28:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> someone over on the pic channel was having something of a similar question...having to do with branching commands and which to use...one ended up being for short jumps and the other for the entire memory range.
[16:38:01] <mux_> well that's the next problem to attack
[16:38:26] <mux_> but it seems that indeed, I should initialize RAMPZ to 2 at start-up to fix the addressing issue
[16:39:37] <mux_> I've indeed heard that there was some rjmp-issue that can happen as well, but I"m not sure if that affects me
