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[08:04:04] <wondiws> Are there counterfit AVR chips known to be around?
[08:15:58] <wondiws> anyone in here?
[08:18:06] <jhn> To answer your question: Rumors have it, yes. But you never know. Any specific problem? Or just asking?
[08:19:36] <wondiws> I have hear a fake chinese AVR programmer
[08:19:47] <wondiws> one MCU on the PCB:
[08:21:14] <wondiws> it saids: "ATMEL MEGA8L 8MU1041 CHINA-B )H1400
[08:21:27] <wondiws> "ATMEL MEGA8L 8MU1041 CHINA-B OH1400"
[08:21:51] <wondiws> I can't find any information on the internet on it either
[08:22:21] <wondiws> this MCU has USB (and it does get enumerated when I plug it in) and the real ATMEGA8L does not support USB
[08:25:37] <jhn> You can bit bang USB 1.1 on a mega8,
http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/index.html
[08:27:27] <antto> was that how the usbasp programmer works?
[08:27:37] <antto> "vusb"
[08:28:35] <jhn> Sorry, don’t know each programmer out there. By looking at the documentation you should be able to fin out.
[08:30:13] <wondiws> it is an usbasp programmer, sort of
[08:30:19] <jhn> There is only one problem when building a programmer: Flashing the MCU. You can get DIY kits with a ready-to-go MCU, I highly recommend his.
[08:30:27] <wondiws> but the firmware needs to be flashed
[08:31:08] <wondiws> jhn, fortunately I do have a German myAVR programmer that does work
[08:31:17] <wondiws> I use that most of the time
[08:32:34] <jhn> I have fond memories of the myAVR as well. bit Banging has a tasty co-notation here… :-)
[08:33:06] <jhn> Then you are set, go and flash the USBasp.
[08:33:37] <wondiws> unfortunately I get ID 0x000000 in return
[08:34:56] <wondiws> when I google the only advice people get is indeed to flash this chinese counterfit thing
[08:35:15] <wondiws> but it's said you need to place a jumper on the chinese programmer
[08:35:21] <wondiws> well, there is no header
[08:36:33] <wondiws> but I don't know why you would need to set a jumper, as I use the ICSP port of my arduino for SPI devices like SD card readers as well, without worrieng about jumpers
[08:36:43] <antto> http://media.giphy.com/media/A5OMC5iYIBuPm/giphy.gif
[08:37:09] <jhn> Reverse engineer the thing, see if it is a copy-cat of USBasp and go from there. Or trash it, buy an original USBasp. Depneds on how expensive your free-time hours are.
[08:37:54] <wondiws> my free time hours are expensive: I have absolutely no need to do this except curiosity
[08:38:01] <wondiws> are not expensive*
[08:38:25] <antto> my chinese usbasp doesn't quite work, never gonna waste money nor time on a chinese programmer especialy usbasp
[08:38:45] <wondiws> I love to waste time
[08:39:10] <antto> i reflashed my usbasp with the newest firmware - still nope
[08:39:17] <jhn> OK, proceed at your own discretion.
[08:39:22] <jhn> Bailing out.
[08:39:45] <wondiws> jhn: what's wrong with curiosity?
[08:40:19] <jhn> Nothing, need to get things done here.
[08:41:11] <antto> mine *does* have the headers, so i slapped a jumper, and flashed it, but it didn't fix the problem.. the chip itself works, but the usb connection is terrible, it dissappears from the computer right when you start programming something, and then randomly appears as unrecognized usb device or something like that
[08:41:43] <wondiws> that is due to the bit-banging I imagine...
[08:41:57] <antto> whatever it is due - it's not acceptable
[08:42:31] <antto> i learned: "use a proper programmer"
[08:43:38] <wondiws> I also tried once programming using parport, holding the resistors together using gravity alone... and it worked at the first try already :p
[08:44:38] <wondiws> but I think i'll leave this shitty chinese programmer for now
[08:48:16] <myself> antto: that sounds like a power problem, do you have a filtering cap between vcc/gnd near the chip?
[09:23:23] <antto> myself i bought it pre-built from ebay
[09:23:58] <antto> so i don't have a clue how it works... it surely had some components (smd) besides the avr chip
[09:24:11] <antto> it worked at first, for about 1 week
[09:24:39] <antto> then i left it for a few months, and next time i had to use it - it started to cause USB problems
[09:25:09] <antto> wondiws i use a parallel port now, but without the resistors
[09:25:15] <antto> it works solid
[09:25:45] <wondiws> thats interesting antto
[09:26:47] <antto> yeah, the circuit diagram showed something like 220 ohm resistors on each pin, but someone told me that i can probably ommit those (and i used kinda long wires)
[09:27:25] <wondiws> do wires still have that much resistance?
[09:27:51] <antto> i use it to flash an atmega2561, works every single time, i also used it to flash the new firmware on the usbasp itself
[09:28:20] <antto> well, nah, the wires won't be so high in resistance
[09:28:43] <antto> they're not uber long, something like 30cm total
[09:28:46] <Thrashbarg> the inputs on a CMOS device are high impedance, but they're also capacitive, so the resistors would make things blurry at higher speeds
[09:29:16] <wondiws> I wonder if I will measure any resistance at all at wires, I'll check
[09:29:23] <Thrashbarg> you'd get less than an ohm
[09:29:49] <antto> yeah, but measure your your multimeter's probes shorted first
[09:30:02] <antto> mine gives about 4 ohms then (it's uber cheap)
[09:30:03] <Thrashbarg> yup... the meter probes probably have more resistance when combined
[09:30:25] <antto> so then measure the wire, and i bet you won't really get much higher value
[09:30:26] <Thrashbarg> 4 ohms ouch
[09:30:46] <wondiws> 00.3 when shorted
[09:30:50] <wondiws> or 00.4
[09:30:54] <antto> yeah, not great, it's a 2.5 euro multimeter ;]
[09:30:57] <Thrashbarg> heh
[09:31:31] <Thrashbarg> I got a $99 Fluke which specifically stated on the box "Not to be sold outside China"
[09:31:42] <antto> waat
[09:31:45] <antto> why? ;]
[09:31:50] <wondiws> do they have different standards in China? :p
[09:32:01] <Thrashbarg> I figure they sell them cheaper in China, but more expensive elsewhere
[09:32:05] <twnqx> mh
[09:32:18] * twnqx makes note for the shenzhen trip next month
[09:32:22] <antto> i thought china keeps the nice stuff for themselves, and export the crap-quality stuff
[09:32:28] <Thrashbarg> the same multimeter is about three times that if I were to buy the English version
[09:32:42] <antto> oh
[09:32:48] <antto> yeah, makes sense
[09:33:06] <antto> Thrashbarg where are you from?
[09:33:10] <Thrashbarg> Australia
[09:33:20] <Thrashbarg> so there's an extra "you're in Australia" tax
[09:33:24] <antto> how much is a 0.5l of beer there?
[09:33:44] <Thrashbarg> not a beer drinker... I figure about $10
[09:34:09] <antto> yup.. and in my country (since we're a poor country) it's much much lower
[09:34:12] <antto> like 10x lower
[09:34:15] <Thrashbarg> eyah
[09:34:27] <antto> yet, if we export, i bet the price won't be the same ;P~
[09:34:33] <Thrashbarg> the cost of living here is one of the highest in the world... if not *the* highest
[09:34:43] <Thrashbarg> potatoes are $6 a kg ffs
[09:35:36] <twnqx> what
[09:35:38] <twnqx> 0.5l
[09:35:43] <twnqx> for $10?
[09:35:46] <wondiws> I made a small zig-zag pattern on my breadboard and get 00.7 ohm
[09:36:11] <twnqx> i'd say maybe 3...
[09:36:43] <twnqx> i don't think that australia is more expensive than skandinavia by a margin
[09:37:45] <wondiws> I thought Scandinavia levies extreme taxes on alcohol and tobacco?
[09:37:46] <Thrashbarg> yeah just looked it up, the cheapest bottle is $2.50 for 750mL
[09:37:57] <twnqx> makes more sense.
[09:38:09] <Thrashbarg> here comes a long link
[09:38:10] <Thrashbarg> https://www.danmurphys.com.au/dm/search/dm_search_results_gallery.jsp?bmForm=sort&bmFormID=ksy.Rtc%2F14768bca6f9&bmUID=ksy.Rtd&bmIsForm=true&bmPrevTemplate=%2Fdm%2Fsearch%2Fdm_search_results_gallery.jsp&bmSingle=Sortval&Sortval=%2B+price&bmFields=bmPrevTemplate%2CbmForm%2CbmIsForm%2CbmUID%2CbmFormID%2CbmSingle&bmHash=220509b5c94ffae7d4bfadaa23fda77cde90c8fc
[09:38:14] <twnqx> wondiws: exactly that's why i didn't beleive ein 10AUD :P
[09:38:43] <Thrashbarg> lol I was thinking more if you didn't want to drink cat piss
[09:39:40] <antto> we got 2L plastic bottle beers for about less than 1.5 euros here
[09:39:43] <Thrashbarg> the cheapest 500mL can of beer is $7.89... but there's aluminium to be had there
[09:39:51] <twnqx> Oo
[09:40:52] <antto> more or less about the same price as a 2L bottle of coca-cola
[09:40:54] <Thrashbarg> lol this website is broken... lists it wrong
[09:42:00] <antto> 0.5L alu can - 0.5euro ;]
[09:42:33] <Thrashbarg> http://i.imgur.com/kPlZL.jpg <-- this too
[09:42:45] <Thrashbarg> our 'large' is smaller than their 'small'
[09:42:45] <antto> i also know that the beer in scandinavia is uber expensive
[09:43:23] <twnqx> only in sweden
[09:43:33] <twnqx> in denmark and finnland it's just expensive :P
[09:43:40] <twnqx> ok, haven't been to norway...
[09:43:58] <antto> yeah, sweeden, beer is like 10 euro iirc
[09:44:13] <twnqx> 50€ for a box of 24x 0.3, lol
[09:44:15] <Thrashbarg> but it's engineered to perfection and does the washing up afterwards
[09:44:24] <antto> hahaha
[09:44:31] <twnqx> we went with a ferry to denmark for shopping >_>
[10:42:21] <wondiws> I have not been very careful with my myAVR programmer, and no I can't program my Arduino Uno with it. My myAVR programmer does still program my special "Helios" Arduino. Could the myAVR programmer still be at fault regarding the Arduino Uno not being programmed?
[11:21:31] <antto> how much flash space does the chip in the arduino have?
[11:23:29] <antto> or are you _sure_ this "myAVR" programmer supports the chip
[12:06:43] <N1njaneer> Just buy the official $30 USD Atmel programmer that supports anything and everything. Problem solved. :)
[13:42:43] <Tom_itx> N1njaneer i don't think it supports tiny10
[14:24:11] <wondiws> antto, I used the myAVR programmer all the time
[14:24:14] <wondiws> for the Uno
[14:24:30] <wondiws> I'll try again this evening if for some reason I have more luck
[17:05:41] <wondiws> why is a *.hex file actually much smaller than an *.elf file?
[17:05:56] <wondiws> even though it's text
[17:14:54] <Tachyon`> linking?
[17:14:59] <Tachyon`> I dunno
[17:15:00] <Tachyon`> it shouldn't be
[17:15:19] <Tachyon`> a .hex file would always be more than twice the size of the binary
[17:19:16] <wondiws> *.lst files are just for info? They cannot be assembled?
