Back
[00:56:31] <rue_house> does anyone still buy maxim true? so many companies make knockoffs of all their stuff
[00:56:39] <rue_house> for SO much cheaper
[03:11:55] <madist> someday everyone will be making knockoffs
[06:04:56] <inflex> Tom_itx: maybe I have blown the buffers... just tried one of my simpler usbtiny programmers... all fine :(
[06:11:51] <Thrashbarg> bust my buffers!
[07:20:52] <dunz0r> Busting buffers batman!
[11:58:08] <Bushman> ave
[12:07:44] <Bushman> let's assume i'm a compleet noob and i need to install avr toolchain and tools for use with an USB programmer
[12:08:03] <Bushman> could someone sugest some recent tutorial for linux?
[12:08:16] <Bushman> the one i've found is from 2012
[12:12:08] <N1njaneer> No idea on that. All of Atmel's official support is on the Windows side of things, and regrettably I don't believe they will be porting Atmel Studio over to Linux. At least the back-end is all gcc so at least that part is cross-platform.
[12:22:54] <Bushman> N1njaneer: well, i can live without avrstudio or without any IDE t all but i won't be able to do much without properly installed toolchain and makefile example :P
[12:23:32] <Bushman> the tutorial i'm using is a bit outdated and some package names don't work for me
[12:24:05] <Bushman> like right now i'm investigating why i can't seem to find libusb and with what was it replaced :P
[12:32:51] <Bushman> man, this tutorial is horrible
[12:33:15] <Bushman> it tells me to install stuff by downloading it and compiling it -_-'
[12:33:32] <Bushman> did they heard of pre-compiled packages back then?
[12:34:01] <Bushman> it's 2012 and the author acts like if it was 1999
[12:55:32] <myself> why would you use linux if you're allergic to bad tutorials and compiling things?
[12:55:43] <myself> I thought that's WHY people used linux.
[12:56:32] <myself> (I'm only slightly trolling. It really is a sincere question wrapped in some snide attitude.)
[12:58:03] <jonored_> There are some binary packages you can download & use, but maintaining cross-compiling toolchains for all the uC architectures and host architectures is a bit rough on distro maintainers. Gentoo manages sorta, but it breaks a lot.
[13:00:45] <jonored_> You can usually install arduino with whatever toolchain it uses via package manager, though.
[13:08:57] <Bushman> myself: i use linux because i like free software and lack of annoying viruses and malware
[13:09:27] <Bushman> also i'm not alergic to compiling as long as the tutorial is recent
[13:09:34] <N1njaneer> I don't think I've had to deal with a virus on Windows since like the late 90s. Have just never legitimately detected one. :D
[13:09:53] <Bushman> the only one i have found was quite old and already outdated in may parts
[13:11:12] <Bushman> N1njaneer: heh, i didn't had any problems with viruses either... until someone plugged USB pendrive without my consent
[13:11:55] <Bushman> then it was just downhill
[13:12:28] <Bushman> that's when i've migrated to linux for good. it was back in 2004 i think
[13:12:35] <Bushman> anyway...
[13:13:20] <Bushman> right now i'm strugling with USB interface... for some reason the FTDI won't detect properly and there's no /dev/ttyUSB0 ;/
[13:16:07] <Bushman> ok, now i know what's the problem... it's the same manufacturer but different device
[13:16:48] <Bushman> it's Serial converter, not FT232 USB-Serial (UART) IC
[13:16:55] <Bushman> different devID
[13:55:35] <Bushman> mmmmkay
[13:56:36] <Bushman> it seems i was able to force udev to modprobe proper module for this device and i get the ttyUSB0, also avrdude is talking to the atmega16 on the other end of the cables :P
[13:56:54] <Bushman> now back to seting up toolchain ;]
[13:57:12] <Bushman> (should i be taking notes of what i'm doing?)
[14:25:35] <Bushman> oh man, i think i'm gonna need some help with properly writing (let's face it: modifying) makefile for my tiny project
[14:25:45] <Bushman> can anyone here help me with makefile?
[14:28:27] <ivanshmakov> Bushman: Specifically?
[14:31:47] <Bushman> specifically for atmega16 and a simple barometer driver
[14:32:14] <Bushman> it's an out of a box code, never touched by me and works for other people
[14:32:31] <ivanshmakov> Bushman: I mean, what’s the specific problem with Makefile?
[14:38:26] <N1njaneer> This is why I like IDE's managing the toolchain -- no mucking about with makefiles unless you REALLY need something custom. :)
[14:38:30] <Bushman> well, i never wrote one myself before?
[14:38:30] <Bushman> :P
[14:38:45] <N1njaneer> Bushman: Sorry, can't help you with that. I'd suggest looking for examples and modifying to suite :)
[14:39:01] <Bushman> N1njaneer: yea, i'm on it just now
[14:39:45] <Bushman> got an example from a friend and we're going over the steps i need to modify... let's see what will come out of this ;]
[14:39:50] <Bushman> wish me luck :P
[14:43:30] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: Personally, I don’t think I ever had any issues with makefiles /per se./
[14:44:50] <N1njaneer> ivanshmakov: Yes, but I'd rather spend time writing code rather than writing makefiles. And working on projects with hundreds or thousands of source files, makefiles can quickly become massively cumbersome to update.
[14:46:38] <N1njaneer> There are times when you need to, but this day in age you shouldn't have to. IDE's exist for a reason - primarily to remove the burden of tasks the computer can do automatically so you can focus on your application development. Same reason a compiler exists - why write things in assembler or machine code when you can write it thousands of times faster in C? Sure there are times when you might need
[14:46:39] <N1njaneer> to hand-code some assembler to spot-optimize or check things, but it should be the exception and not the rule. :)
[14:47:11] <N1njaneer> Regardless, always use the tools that GET THE JOB DONE EASIEST AND FASTEST for you in particular. The focus should be what you ARE doing, not what you are using TO do it. Try a bunch of things, pick the past of least resistance.
[14:47:18] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: Makefile code is just as code-y as any other code. Besides, I’ve dealt with a few projects with hundreds of files, – they aren’t (or at least shouldn’t) be any harder to deal with than those with just a few.
[14:49:12] <N1njaneer> But why waste the time? What is the benefit, other than another task that isn't developing your application? :)
[14:49:17] <jonored_> N1njaneer: Usually stuff like gcc -M makes most of the cumbersome part basically go away...
[14:49:59] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: The “conceptual” problem with IDEs is that they do not somehow take the task of building software to any higher abstraction. In the nutshell, IDE is effectively just one or two one-size-fits-all templates which you fill with the names of your files.
[14:50:27] <N1njaneer> I just like the fact that Atmel Studio and/or Eclipse does all that on the back-end, and rarely if ever requires hand-tweaking. But it can still be done if necessary.
[14:50:36] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: The “particular” problem with IDEs I’m typically having is that they offer a bunch of menus…
[14:51:17] <jonored_> and unless you're building a lot of different binaries from the same source tree, it's a couple lines to say "link objects for all these source files I've got together", and the rest basically takes care of itself.
[14:51:27] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: … and don’t offer a “menu label text search” function of any kind whatsoever. While Makefile editors do.
[14:51:37] <N1njaneer> ivanshmakov: And it generally gets the task done a lot faster. There are also better and worse IDEs out there. But the time a good IDE saves me is completely worth it.
[14:51:39] <ivanshmakov> jonored_: Seconded.
[14:52:36] <jonored_> makefiles that /don't/ take advantage of the stuff make can do are barely better than just writing a shell script to build each file in order, though..
[14:52:46] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: For me, it would rather be a waste of time to familiarize myself with any given IDE.
[14:52:54] <ivanshmakov> jonored_: Seconded for a second time.
[14:53:50] <N1njaneer> But again, the whole point is to figure out what works fastest and easiest for you and your needs in developing. For me, getting things done quickly and reliably is absolutely necessary because it pays the bills. That means a commercial IDE, with full commercial support so I can pick up the phone and have someone to call if things get stuck. :)
[14:53:55] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: As for the “least resistance” thing, – it surely leads to an optimum. It may be a local one, though.
[14:54:05] <N1njaneer> Or in the case of Atmel, free support and free toolchain :)
[14:55:50] <N1njaneer> I just watch more and more people struggle to set things up in an extremely cumbersome and difficult way than they need to, especially if they are just starting out. For as much flack as Arduino takes and for all the shortcomings it has, the thing they really nailed was making it just about the easiest toolchain and IDE to set up and use so newcomers can jump right in an start doing stuff. :)
[14:56:44] <N1njaneer> But again, the wisest person tries a number of options, finds what works and doesn't, then adapts for their application and needs. If there were one ultimate solution that was the silver bullet, everyone would agree on using it. Different strokes for different folks, as it were.
[14:57:59] <N1njaneer> It's just often times hard to pick apart people's motivation between "I need to do XYZ the long way around because of my specific needs" versus "OMG I have to use Linux solely because it's NOT Windows and I want to be a 1337 hax0r" :)
[14:58:33] <N1njaneer> Most people fall into the former category, but a lot seem to pop up in the latter.
[15:00:05] <N1njaneer> I love Linux and use it for various things that it arguably does far better than Windows, but I've also enjoyed Windows getting to the point of being very stable and usable (XP and 7 at least!) and allowing me to do what I need to do quickly. Not to mention deployment to the marketshare of customers out there that only run Windows. It makes no sense for me to develop software that requires the
[15:00:05] <N1njaneer> customers to have Linux if they have no idea how to use it.
[15:00:22] <ivanshmakov> N1njaneer: For me, I use Linux because it’s quite a decent kernel for a GNU system. And I use GNU because the other system’s developers tend to have a “DON’T EVER TOUCH THE INTERNALS OF OUR SYSTEM OR YOU SURE BREAK THEM!11” attitude towards the community, including me.
[15:00:23] <N1njaneer> But I digress. Just my opinions based on my own experiences. :)
[15:00:51] <N1njaneer> ivanshmakov: Makes sense, sure!
[15:01:11] <ivanshmakov> I mean, if not for that attitude, they’ll surely make the sources available.
[15:01:14] <N1njaneer> ivanshmakov: As I said, if it works well for you, then by all means use it. :)
[15:01:41] <jonored_> I think a lot of the strong reaction for makefiles is that it often feels like the arguments against are frequently strawmen of really poor usage.
[15:02:46] <jonored_> (Admittedly, I use it partly becuase i can't stand rodent-waving to try to figure out how to get something done...
[15:03:00] <N1njaneer> jonored_: As long as the code compiles and runs correctly, I really don't care how it happens, as long as I get the task done on time and it works :)
[15:03:02] <ivanshmakov> (I think that I’ve craved for sources ever since I learned about compiling back in early 1990ies. So, when I discovered GNU/Linux, – I immediately got attached to it.)
[15:04:58] <ivanshmakov> jonored_: The problem is not just using some gestures to communicate with the software, – that one I can stand. It’s the lack of the search function /over the user interface/ what makes it hardly tolerable, however.
[16:43:04] <Bushman> yay! it blinks!
[16:49:28] * Casper adds 2 small heavyish cardboard tubes with wires to it
[18:15:06] <inflex> Morning all
[18:21:11] <Roklobsta> morning
[18:28:59] <Bushman> heh, i've managed to go throu all the makfile issues, compiled the sensor example, configred serial to get the data on my PC and...
[18:29:11] <Bushman> yea, TWI error
[18:29:41] <Bushman> heh... no data goes from the sensor and i have no idea how I2C works in this example XD
[18:31:43] <Bushman> ok, let's be honest. I have no idea how I2C works... in general.
[18:31:45] <Bushman> XD
[18:39:15] <inflex> lol
[18:39:41] <inflex> I'm abut the same Bushman ... I've got the bitbash lib that works for me... and that's all I need :p
[18:44:39] * Bushman pimpslaps inflex
[18:44:51] <Bushman> where were you when i needed a makefile!? :D
[18:47:50] <Bushman> inflex: what's a bitbash?
[18:48:38] <N1njaneer> Like a bitbang, but it happens in the Australian outback
[18:48:43] <N1njaneer> Behind a bush
[18:50:19] <Bushman> N1njaneer: nice try, i've almost believed you...
[18:50:24] <Bushman> ...NOT.
[18:51:41] <N1njaneer> Bitbang effectively means doing communications by toggling GPIO controls under software control to make things happen, rather than a state-machine in the silicon like a UART or PWM counter or I2C doing the heavy lifting for you.
[18:51:43] <N1njaneer> Does that make sense?
[18:55:07] <Bushman> yup
[18:55:40] <Bushman> i've heard of bitbang method.
[18:55:51] <Bushman> RS232 on gameboy lol
[18:56:03] <Bushman> those were times XD
[18:56:15] <Bushman> i even done some coding back then
[18:56:29] <Bushman> terrible job but it worked
[18:57:49] <Bushman> now i'm almost as green as avocado :D
[18:58:13] <Roklobsta> or borwn if it's it's an old avocado.
[18:58:17] <Roklobsta> brown
[18:58:25] <Bushman> remember some basics but i'm lost with all those new stuff like a child in a fog
[20:33:13] <nofxx> how do you guys program the xmegas? gonna try usbasp at 3.3v + the pdi trick
[20:33:47] <Tom_itx> i use one of my programmers
[20:33:52] <nofxx> got usbasp and a bus blaster (jtag possible?)
[20:33:54] <Tom_itx> which works at 3.3v
[20:34:07] <nofxx> Tom_itx, got schematics so I can build one like tonight? hehe
[20:34:25] <Tom_itx> you'd need an nxp level converter
[20:35:51] <nofxx> Tom_itx, which one? and you program directly on avrdude, no patches?
[20:36:01] <Tom_itx> yup
[20:36:32] <Tom_itx> i've got an xplain i program with it
[20:36:51] <nofxx> that's nice, there's a link? ;)
[20:37:34] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[20:38:26] <Tom_itx> they're both the same, one is in a box
[20:39:16] <inflex> lo Tom_itx
[20:39:27] <Tom_itx> hey
[20:39:30] <inflex> Tom_itx: what buffer chip did you use on these programmers? I might order a few to replace
[20:39:46] <Tom_itx> it's fun to replace...
[20:40:01] <inflex> I have hot-air
[20:40:08] <Tom_itx> that will be a plus for sure
[20:40:11] <Tom_itx> i don't
[20:41:16] <Tom_itx> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NXP/GTL2003PW118/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugR9%2fKGXiWOqkGNGBoFtjLoBnn42i6CVm%252b3gptrOpZ1hQ%3d%3d
[20:41:39] <inflex> still can't imagine how I blew them
[20:41:54] <inflex> but I did notice that when I didn't have my chip connected on the usbtiny, it produced the same effect
[20:41:55] <Tom_itx> i've had maybe 2 or 3 counting yours
[20:42:13] <Tom_itx> i think one guy plugged it in 12v
[20:42:39] <Tom_itx> you could try just reflowing it to see
[20:42:54] <Tom_itx> but if it isn't working, my money is on the buffer
[20:43:13] <nofxx> Tom_itx, nice oven, gonna buy one soon for smd
[20:43:28] <Tom_itx> works good. inflex and i made them together more or less
[20:43:35] <Tom_itx> he did most of the grunt work
[20:44:09] <inflex> yes, I grunted a lot
[20:44:17] <Tom_itx> it's always fun doing projects on opposite sides of the globe
[20:46:55] <nofxx> Tom_itx, where can a pdi-less-soul can get a tiny mkII ?
[20:47:19] <Tom_itx> from me of course :)
[20:48:44] <Tom_itx> i had a commerce link on the page but it's not there now since i moved my dyndns service
[20:50:24] <nofxx> assembled? only board? how much? paypal? ship to brazil ? heh
[20:50:40] <Tom_itx> yes and yes
[20:50:58] <Tom_itx> which one did you want?
[20:51:25] <nofxx> well, maybe one of each. you mean assembled and kit?
[20:51:43] <Tom_itx> no, i don't sell them as kits
[20:52:11] <Tom_itx> pn
[20:52:12] <Tom_itx> pm
[20:56:18] <Tom_itx> nofxx, it does all 3 8bit avr protocols
[20:56:24] <Tom_itx> ISP, PDI and TPI
[20:58:10] <inflex> they're great programmers nofxx --- really good. I used a few of them to do all my Tiny10 work
[22:05:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> Bushman, what flavor of linux do you use?
[22:06:41] <Tom_itx> wow that was painful
[22:06:58] <Tom_itx> now let's try launching it...
[22:19:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> Tom_itx, I find a steam catapult works best.
[22:19:59] <Tom_itx> not a bad idea
[22:20:13] <Tom_itx> launching studio takes forever on my old hardware
[22:20:19] <Lambda_Aurigae> in the event of lack of steam, a trebuchet will suffice.
[22:21:24] <Tom_itx> i suppose i could uninstall a few of these
[22:21:55] <Tom_itx> i've got studio 4, 5, 5.1, 6.0, 6.1 and 6.2 installed
[22:23:07] <Tom_itx> more for version control than anything else