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[07:06:15] <abcminiuser> Firefox: crash simulator 2014
[07:10:47] <Valen> abcminiuser: thats not using the latest esr is it?
[07:11:02] <abcminiuser> Latest stable channel
[07:11:03] <Valen> because I just schedualed that for deployment at like 30 computers tomorrow
[07:11:06] <abcminiuser> Not ESR
[07:11:11] * Valen crosses fingers
[07:11:26] <abcminiuser> FF 29
[07:11:32] <abcminiuser> Crashes a crapload for me at leasrt
[07:12:20] * Valen has a :-<
[07:12:28] <Valen> there are no browsers I like the look of any more
[07:12:39] <Valen> ff is doing change for the sake of change with its UI
[07:12:55] <Valen> chrome is the spawn of google and is trying to run backround stuff these days
[07:12:58] <Valen> IE is IE
[07:14:58] <malinus_> Valen, chromium is not too bad imho
[07:15:25] <Valen> I should give it a go
[07:20:42] <abcminiuser> New FF looks like Chrome :S
[07:20:54] <abcminiuser> Except freezes and crashes, but has adblock so I still love it
[07:21:53] <Tom_itx> stayin busy these daze?
[07:22:43] <Valen> adblock exists for chrome
[07:47:42] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, you betcha
[07:47:50] <abcminiuser> Lotta tech in these lightbulbs (really!)
[10:51:59] <awozniak> Looking for data that shows xmega192a3 internal 32MHz RC oscillator drift vs temperature
[10:53:12] <Tom_itx> nothing in the back of the PDF?
[10:54:17] <awozniak> Nope.
[10:54:27] <awozniak> found a ap note that covers the crystal oscillator
[10:54:32] <awozniak> but not the 32MHz RC\
[13:25:06] <hetii> HI :)
[13:25:18] <hetii> Dis some of you know LPCOpen project ?
[13:25:39] <malinus_> I'm looking at this scope (digital), it's dirty cheap, nice 100mhz hackable to 200mhz, 1Gs/s, but only 40k depth. What do you guys think?
http://storeinfinity.com/oscilloscopes/hantek-dso5102p-usb-digital-storage-oscilloscope.html#disqus-block
[13:27:24] <Kev> malinus_,
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hantek-DSO5102P-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-2Channels-1GS-s-7-TFT-LCD-800x480-Record-Length-24K-USB/1064576212.html
[13:30:07] <malinus_> Kev, only $3 difference when including shipping, but thanks a bunch
[13:31:26] <Kev> i sent this because of the "reviews"
[13:32:00] <malinus_> oh right
[13:33:17] <malinus_> Kev, it should be good enough. I'm just wondering how limiting 40k depth will be.
[13:44:20] <Tom_itx> i've heard it's hard on the ADC hacking scopes
[13:46:37] <Tom_itx> a few in here have gotten the rigol from dx.com and like them
[13:47:42] <Tom_itx> http://www.dx.com/p/rigol-ds1052e-5-6-tft-lcd-50mhz-2-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-30573
[13:47:46] <Tom_itx> http://www.dx.com/p/rigol-ds1102e-5-6-lcd-100mhz-dual-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-81526
[13:47:51] <Tom_itx> http://www.dx.com/p/rigol-ds1102e-5-6-lcd-100mhz-dual-channel-digital-color-storage-oscilloscope-81526
[13:47:54] <Tom_itx> woops
[13:50:17] <malinus_> yeah I've looked at that one too. It's $100 more, and it has a much smaller screen. It does howerver have a nice 1M depth
[13:51:16] <malinus_> Tom_itx, which scope do you have?
[13:52:10] <Tom_itx> an old analog Phillips 100Mhz
[13:52:27] <malinus_> Tom_itx, is that good enough for you?
[13:52:32] <Tom_itx> i seldom use it
[13:52:46] <Tom_itx> if i need something for avr i generally use the saleae
[13:52:57] <Tom_itx> sry gotta run right now...
[13:52:59] <malinus_> saleae?
[13:53:04] <Tom_itx> logic analizer
[13:53:06] <malinus_> what is "the salea"
[13:53:07] <malinus_> oh
[13:53:09] <Tom_itx> dot com
[13:53:11] <Tom_itx> look at it
[13:53:16] <malinus_> k
[13:53:24] <Jartza> hmmh
[13:53:28] <Tom_itx> they got some new ones out that really look nice
[13:53:37] <Tom_itx> +- 10v with analog inputs too
[13:53:39] <Jartza> in attiny85, it should be faster to write to program flash, than to eeprom?
[13:53:48] <Tom_itx> ja
[13:54:09] <Jartza> I have quite specific need for data, that will be written around 1000 times during one chip lifetime
[13:54:22] <Jartza> I was thinking that I might also store it directly to program flash
[13:54:27] <Jartza> as I have some free space there
[13:54:38] <Jartza> next I have to figure out how to do that in attiny85 :)
[13:57:14] <twnqx> for 1000 writes
[13:57:18] <twnqx> you shouldn't have to care
[13:57:25] <twnqx> also, you can't to single byte writes to flash
[13:57:26] <Jartza> yeah
[13:57:28] <twnqx> do*
[13:57:34] <Jartza> it doesn't matter
[13:57:42] <Jartza> but 512 is a bit tight for me
[13:58:03] <Jartza> yet I still have > 3kB of program flash available
[14:01:03] <Jartza> I will update all the data at once, currently around 600 bytes
[14:01:27] <Jartza> I was thinking many ways to pack the data, but if using program flash, I don't have to
[14:49:58] <N1njaneer> Tom_itx/Malinus: I have both a Saelae Logic 16 and a Rigol DS2202 here that I use regularly. Both excellent products, but for two different uses :)
[15:08:22] <Jartza> I've heard some good things about saelae
[15:08:35] <Jartza> I have ikalogic's scanaplus
[15:08:50] <Jartza> and hantek dso5102p
[17:34:17] <vox_> so question, if i use High voltage programming will that reset just fuses or will flash and eeprom be wiped as well
[17:55:52] <malinus> Jartza, oh you have the hantek dso5102p? That's the one I'm looking at right now. What do you think about it?
[18:25:58] <Jartza> malinus: it's the first oscope I've ever got and I've had it like 2 days :)
[18:26:12] <Jartza> so far I like it, but I have to learn to use it to make any opinion :)
[18:26:45] <Jartza> I'm new to the whole electornics-thing, I've been mainly in the coding-side of the business for so long and hardware was just something that came from somewhere:)
[18:28:16] <Jartza> but I read a lot of reviews and watched a lot of videos and so on
[18:28:30] <N1njaneer> I love my DS2202 :D
[18:28:35] <Jartza> and somehow I got the feeling that this one has the "most bang for buck"
[18:29:11] <Jartza> N1njaneer: no doubt, but it costs like what, 6-7 times the hantek? :)
[18:29:17] <malinus> ^
[18:29:40] <Jartza> of course, depends of the needs
[18:29:50] <malinus> Jartza, only thing cofusing about that particular scope, is that some places it states different depths. Ranging from 24K-40k. What did it say on yours - also where did you get it from?
[18:30:23] <Jartza> yeah and I also found a netsite saying it can be updated to 200Mhz
[18:30:40] <Jartza> and I bought mine from ebay.de
[18:30:56] <N1njaneer> DS2202 is 52M sample depth which is the main reason I went with that model - better depth. :)
[18:31:04] <Jartza> but the actual oscope was shipped from UK
[18:31:25] <malinus> Jartza, oh, mind linking to the exact seller/product?
[18:31:29] <Jartza> but ordering from ebay.co.uk I get wrong kind of plug :)
[18:31:50] <Jartza> as I live in finland, germany has the same plug
[18:31:57] <malinus> Jartza, also, did you pay any customs?
[18:32:11] <Jartza> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Hantek-DSO5102P-USB-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-2-Channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-/321410038427
[18:32:23] <Jartza> we don't pay any customs within the EU
[18:32:55] <Jartza> so ordering anything from another EU-country is piece-of-cake
[18:32:58] <malinus> Jartza, well neither do we (denmark here), but from UK you normally should. Did they declare a lower value?
[18:34:25] <Jartza> they didn't declare any value, as that's not necessary within EU :)
[18:34:29] <Jartza> not even from UK
[18:34:39] <Jartza> they only use the funny-money in UK :)
[18:34:55] <Jartza> so you have to do price conversation
[18:35:22] <Jartza> so 1£ is around 1.24 euros
[18:35:31] <malinus> Jartza, check this out. The ebay sellers website:
http://storeinfinity.com/oscilloscopes/hantek-dso5102p-usb-digital-storage-oscilloscope.html seems to be 40€ cheaper.
[18:36:08] <Jartza> sure, but they ship from hong kong
[18:36:17] <Jartza> so it's customs + taxes
[18:36:22] <malinus> ah
[18:36:30] <malinus> that's the trick!
[18:36:32] <Jartza> yep
[18:36:50] <Jartza> and from germany the postages were also cheapest to me :)
[18:37:02] <Jartza> it was like what, around 20 euros
[18:37:33] <Jartza> which was strange, as the device was still shipped from UK :D
[18:37:53] <Jartza> but with "correct" power plug and cheaper postages, than ordering from UK
[18:38:29] <Jartza> the customs are actually piece-of-cake, if I remember correctly, around 3%
[18:38:54] <Jartza> but the value-added tax comes on top of that
[18:39:10] <Jartza> and they calculate it from the product price PLUS postages, which sucks
[18:39:47] <Jartza> so if ordering from hong kong, $294 is about 227 euros... postage something like 30 euros
[18:40:10] <Jartza> so I would've paid tax from 227+30 euros, 24% from that
[18:40:16] <Jartza> plus the 7 euros customs
[18:40:46] <Jartza> and suddenly the oscope would've cost me 325 euros :)
[18:41:21] <Jartza> and now it was 239 + 20 for postage
[18:41:40] <Jartza> no other costs. and arrived within 7 days of ordering it.
[18:41:55] <Jartza> last time I ordered something from hong kong, it took 2.5 months :(
[18:42:24] <Jartza> the package almost went around the world :)
[18:43:52] <malinus> Jartza, yeah exactly! Did you consider the rigol ds1052e?
[18:43:59] <malinus> before buying the hantek
[18:45:55] <Jartza> yes
[18:46:26] <Jartza> but I read some articles and forums and watched youtube videos and for some reason the hantek still looked like better choise
[18:46:35] <Jartza> I might be wrong, of course, but so far I'm happy with it :)
[18:46:49] <Jartza> helped a lot with my modem-circuit already
[18:47:13] <Jartza> although N1njaneer gave me quite good hints what to try....
[18:47:52] <Jartza> at work I have access to a big & expensive LeCroy, but it's a bit too advanced for me :D
[18:48:13] <Jartza> and it costs something like 40k euros, so I always feel a bit terrified even looking at it :)
[18:48:18] <malinus> haha
[18:48:35] <Jartza> so I decided to leave it to the real hw-guys
[18:48:38] <malinus> Jartza, well the rigol has a bigger depth (1M), while this hantek is only 40k. But it has a nice big screen.
[18:48:39] <Jartza> and not amateurs like me
[18:48:47] <malinus> Jartza, what do you work with?
[18:49:19] <Jartza> malinus: for the last 2 years with this product:
http://cdn.kone.com/www.kone.ae/en/Images/kone-ksp858-factsheet.pdf?v=2
[18:49:23] <Jartza> :)
[18:49:29] <Jartza> and still the same, only the next version of it
[18:49:52] <malinus> Jartza, oh, you are engineer of some sort?
[18:50:00] <Jartza> nope
[18:50:09] <malinus> what then :)?
[18:50:15] <Jartza> I'm a plumber who codes embedded C and Linux kernel drivers :D
[18:50:42] <Jartza> and also some C++/Qt/QML/GTK+ and system code
[18:50:47] <scottstamp> That's one sexy elevator panel, Jartza.
[18:50:51] <malinus> well this is unusual
[18:50:55] <Jartza> and C and asm for embedded arm
[18:51:05] <Jartza> so avr is a new hobby for me, like the electronics
[18:51:16] <Jartza> scottstamp: it sure is, it actually won a Red Dot award
[18:51:23] <scottstamp> Nice!
[18:51:25] <Jartza> and some other awards for the design
[18:51:28] <scottstamp> I generally suck at UX
[18:51:30] <Jartza> both the mechanical design, and UI
[18:51:54] <malinus> install it in our elevator ;)
[18:52:14] <Jartza> http://www.red-dot-21.com/products/kone-ksp-858-destination-control-unit-20594
[18:52:25] <Jartza> sure we'll do, is it Kone elevator? :)
[18:52:38] <Jartza> if not, then it takes a bit longer
[18:52:49] <malinus> hehe
[18:53:12] <Jartza> http://exhibition.ifdesign.de/winner_en.html?ma_id=14095
[18:53:39] <Jartza> I actually work as a contractor for Kone
[18:53:42] <Jartza> not a real employee
[18:53:49] <Jartza> more like a consultant
[18:54:13] <Jartza> my real employee is company called "Rakettitiede", which translates directly to "Rocket Science" :)
[18:55:03] <Jartza> small consultant company (15 people) who have more or less long background working together and people who have >10 years of experience
[18:55:30] <Jartza> and many of us have "roots" in vic20/c64/spectrum -era :)
[18:55:51] <Jartza> except I started a bit before vic20 :P
[18:57:09] <malinus> Jartza, I'm gonna order the same scope. Now we can complain to each other if we made a wrong choice ;P
[18:57:22] <Jartza> so I have two different degrees :D first one is the word-moster "vocational qualification in business information technologies" and another one is plumber :)
[18:57:36] <Jartza> malinus: sure we can :)
[18:57:42] <Jartza> or hack it to make it better? :)
[18:58:15] <malinus> yeah, it seems to be very hackable. Check out the thread about it on eevblog forums
[18:58:19] <malinus> it's like 200 pages
[18:58:35] <malinus> it's actually running linux, and you can log in and whatnot
[18:58:37] <Jartza> that's the one basically which convinced me to buy that one
[18:58:46] <malinus> (trough the usb)
[18:59:01] <Jartza> yeah
[18:59:06] <Jartza> ksp858 also runs linux ;)
[18:59:10] <Jartza> surprise
[18:59:34] <malinus> everything good runs linux ;)
[19:00:18] <Jartza> my macbook runs osx, but on top of that it runs 3 different linuxes on parallels :)
[19:00:54] <Jartza> although I have one windows-machine at work
[19:01:18] <Jartza> last time I booted it a year ago, because I had to do one fix to one cortex m3-sw which is compiled with green hills compiler
[19:02:18] <Jartza> btw. I'm thinking of visiting denmark sometime this autumn
[19:03:06] <Jartza> it's been already 6 years since last visit
[19:03:09] <malinus> turism or business?
[19:03:20] <Jartza> then I was driving a vespa :)
[19:03:28] <Jartza> just a holiday-trip
[19:03:50] <Jartza> thought of going through sweden-denmark-germany, maybe visiting france and belgium on the go
[19:03:57] <Jartza> few days here and there
[19:04:14] <Jartza> 2008 I traveled 6 weeks around europe with vespa
[19:04:17] <malinus> cool
[19:04:27] <Jartza> I guess my blog still exists... hmm
[19:04:28] <Jartza> http://exhibition.ifdesign.de/winner_en.html?ma_id=14095
[19:04:31] <Jartza> agh
[19:04:36] <Jartza> http://eurovespa.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/uneventful-beginning/
[19:04:44] <Jartza> story begins from that :)
[19:06:16] <Jartza> whoa
[19:06:20] <Jartza> haven't checked that blog for ages
[19:06:25] <Jartza> 20,732 views
[19:08:23] <N1njaneer> Arduino environment failing to launch. See my immese lack of surprise-face.
[19:09:14] <Jartza> :D
[19:09:32] <Jartza> I guess I should be asleep
[19:09:48] <Jartza> have to wake up in 5 hours
[19:09:55] <N1njaneer> Go to bed!
[19:10:00] <N1njaneer> We'll either see you when you wake up...
[19:10:05] <N1njaneer> ... or in your dreams.
[19:10:12] <N1njaneer> brb
[19:11:20] <malinus> Jartza, but in short - should I buy it ;P?
[19:11:30] <malinus> also, sleep well :)
[19:18:52] <Jartza> malinus: just go for it :)
[19:18:57] <Jartza> but now, nighty nights
[19:24:50] <N1njaneer> So Arduino sketches with hypens in the filenames will cause the environment to hang and then crash on start. That's some quality software engineering right there.
[19:34:01] <aandrew> only an idiot would put hypens in filenames. :-)
[19:34:18] <N1njaneer> hmm?
[19:35:03] <aandrew> it's a joke
[19:35:12] <N1njaneer> Mmmm.
[19:35:37] <N1njaneer> I generally don't, but one would think it should be more graceful in handling character parsing issues.
[19:36:45] <aandrew> oh I agree
[19:36:50] <aandrew> I just thought I'd poke some fun
[19:37:43] <N1njaneer> Gotcha :)
[19:37:46] <N1njaneer> Wasn't sure of your intent.
[22:06:42] <Trackk> hello
[22:08:59] <Trackk> i am going to start working on an Xmega series, i have some experience on embbeded systems with TI
[22:09:20] <Trackk> any suggestion on which rtos i can use?
[22:19:18] <N1njaneer> Trackk: Several choices, but in many cases an RTOS isn't required. What is the intended application?
[22:20:29] <Casper> in fact, an rtos is usually sign that the programmer don't know what he's doing...
[22:20:51] <Casper> like the one that wanted an rtos for a led flasher...
[22:21:02] <Casper> yes, someone really wanted that
[22:21:07] <Casper> on attiny...
[22:21:24] <Trackk> these will be all the features: reading adc, external ram, usb, usart, display, tcp/ip
[22:21:42] <Trackk> it's a bunch of stuff... so i was thinking on going for a rtos that covered most of it
[22:21:49] <Valen> nothing there really screams rtos to me
[22:22:05] <Valen> it says a bunch of interrupts and a tcp stack ;->
[22:22:37] <Casper> same to me, it however scream hardware usb support
[22:22:45] <Trackk> as i said i have just some basic experience on embbeded systems, and i used a software stack from TI before...
[22:23:20] <Trackk> the xmega128a1u has usb support
[22:23:36] <Valen> didn't see that, yes hardware usb
[22:23:41] <Valen> lufa ftw?
[22:24:02] <Valen> actually that might so well, dean has a usb network card in his lufa stack examples
[22:24:06] <N1njaneer> Yes, and in many cases an RTOS will add so much overhead that you CAN'T do what you intended to.
[22:24:20] <N1njaneer> Sometimes even interrupt overhead adds too much latency.
[22:25:01] <N1njaneer> It's cool that you CAN run an RTOS on a micro, but it's often exceedingly difficult to handle fixed latency responses and guarantee data thruput. Again, really depends on the application requirements.
[22:25:16] <Trackk> okk I see
[22:25:20] <Trackk> thank you guys for your suggestions
[22:25:27] <Trackk> then I guess I will code everything by myself :)
[22:25:42] <Trackk> gonna be tough
[22:25:42] <Valen> to my mind its often simpler
[22:25:45] <Valen> nah
[22:26:00] <Valen> all the things you said you wanted to do with hardware have interrupts
[22:26:17] <Valen> fire up another one based off a timer for stuff that needs to happen based on time
[22:26:21] <Valen> jobs done
[22:26:38] <Trackk> yup
[22:26:42] <N1njaneer> And unless you have a need for interrupts specifically, you can also run them in a polling loop, which can inherently remove synchronization issues related to interrups.
[22:26:44] <Valen> your main function becomes main { sleep }
[22:26:45] <Trackk> and accessing external memory?
[22:27:10] <Valen> some avr's have the ability to do that nativley
[22:27:13] <Valen> IE expand internal ram
[22:27:21] <Valen> i presume that is what you are doing
[22:27:27] <Trackk> yes EBI it's called in xmega
[22:27:36] <Trackk> (i think)
[22:27:55] <N1njaneer> LOL and make sure they actually have the pins broken out for it!
[22:28:08] <Trackk> what do you mean broken out
[22:28:27] <N1njaneer> I found some massive errors in some of the datasheets where they claimed the parts had an EBI, and then were missing an actual critical PORT on the part bond-out :)
[22:28:36] <N1njaneer> Been a few years, would have to look at which part that was.
[22:28:41] <Valen> that'd make life difficult
[22:29:20] <N1njaneer> Slightly. I gave Atmel a bit of an earful over that, but we have an excellent FAE :)
[22:30:03] <Trackk> hehe
[22:30:22] <Trackk> ok cool
[22:30:46] <Trackk> i'm glad that it's not gonna be that difficult to programm it
[22:31:14] <Trackk> i'm a total beginner with avr
[22:31:26] <Trackk> n_n'
[22:34:50] <N1njaneer> Just write it in C to being with, and start breaking things as soon as possible. Ask in here if you get stuck with anything.
[22:34:57] <N1njaneer> +begin with
[22:36:05] <Trackk> yes, thank you guys!
[22:36:44] <Trackk> when I become a master on avr in the future I will be here answering noobs like me right now
[22:36:46] <Trackk> haha
[22:38:01] <myself> Hah, that's exactly how it works.
[22:41:50] <N1njaneer> Best way to learn. :)
[22:47:22] <Trackk> just found out about Atmel Software Framework
[22:47:45] <Trackk> that pretty much solves everything
[22:48:03] <N1njaneer> ASF has some very good examples, but they are working on constantly improving documentation - it's very thin in areas, but the code works and is pretty decently documented.
[22:49:26] <N1njaneer> It's also difficult to get certain projects started at times, also because of partial lack of documentation on how to do so. There's supposed to be some significant improvements made in Atmel Studio 6.2 however. ASF primarily needs to be worked with as C projects right now - there's a bit of a challenge getting some of it to work correctly with C++ unless they've recently fixed this.
[22:49:53] <Trackk> i'm comfortable with C
[22:50:02] <Trackk> as long as I make it work..
[22:53:41] <N1njaneer> C++ on AVR is very useful in that you can do some nice organization, code reuse, and run-time composition of functionality which I find very desirable. But obviously you can't really do things like new(), delete() and similar without some very special case scenarios in place. And generally you can just statically define everything anyhow, which tends to be a lot safer if you need a micro that
[22:53:42] <N1njaneer> might be running for months or years.
[22:56:26] <Trackk> i see... it will be running for months
[22:56:34] <Trackk> unless someone unplug it
[22:58:30] <N1njaneer> Then you don't want dynamic allocations :)
[23:01:35] <Valen> memory fragmentation is bad mmmkay
[23:01:48] <Valen> also nobody uses c++ on avr
[23:01:49] <Valen> ;-P
[23:02:28] <N1njaneer> Valen: I use C++ quite readily.
[23:02:37] <N1njaneer> Not for everything, but enough.
[23:04:08] <Valen> pshaw like your anybody ;-P
[23:06:07] <N1njaneer> Well considering how many thousands of AVR's we program with code I've written per year that then have to go out in to the field to run for many years, I can confidently say I have a reasonable handle on what I'm doing. :)
[23:07:03] <N1njaneer> Have to use what works for you personally. C++ does that well for some of my needs.
[23:09:30] <Trackk> i'll see what works best for me then :)
[23:09:36] <Trackk> thanks guys for all your suggestions
[23:09:37] <N1njaneer> No solution works for everyone, but there's no reason to overlook potential benefits when people wish to share them :)
[23:10:00] <N1njaneer> I simply assert that I have found C++ extremely useful, even for AVRs
[23:11:18] <N1njaneer> Trackk: Enjoy. AVR is a great platform.
[23:33:09] <N1njaneer> Ahh, found my notes. The XMEGA128A1 was the one I was looking at, and it is missing PORTL, which means a 4-port EBI mode is impossible on that device. The appnotes that describe that are (or at least were) ambiguous about pointing this out.
[23:51:09] <N1njaneer> So quiet!
[23:53:55] <RikusW> indeed
[23:55:49] * RikusW cpu is running <10C
[23:56:06] <RikusW> only aircooled...
[23:56:18] <N1njaneer> I've got a 50L dewar of LN2 here if you want to make it run cooler!
[23:56:34] <myself> 50L is pretty big! What do you use it for?
[23:56:55] <RikusW> its below 0C outside...
[23:57:17] <RikusW> and 9C or so inside....
[23:57:41] <RikusW> sunrise was like 20 min ago
[23:58:10] <RikusW> Its winter over in ZA
[23:59:44] <N1njaneer> We keep it here for various lab needs, which of course also includes the occasional making of awesome ice-cream.