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[01:51:45] <rue_more> same phycail axle?
[01:51:50] <rue_more> ?
[01:51:53] <rue_more> physical
[01:52:29] <rue_more> if they are both working togethor to turn the same axle, you wire them in series and they automatically work out it out between them
[02:01:31] <Casper> or parallel
[02:01:53] <Casper> but I beleive he mean on the same axe, isolated wheel
[02:25:49] <dgriffi> what resistance is adequate when directly connecting an input pin to an output pin (as with a matrix keypad)?
[02:27:08] <Casper> out to in need no resistor
[02:27:35] <Casper> might put one for safety in case you fuck up, in this case use like a 220
[02:27:50] <dgriffi> I was looking at this:
http://winavr.scienceprog.com/example-avr-projects/4x4-keypad-example-using-avr-gcc-c-language.html and they suggested I do need them
[02:28:31] <Casper> ah because you can short 2 outputs together with that
[02:28:35] <dgriffi> the keypads I'm messing with have internal pullups of around 40 to 80 ohms
[02:28:36] <Casper> I suspect the high bits are output
[02:29:04] <Casper> 40-80?!? that look like a defective keypad
[02:29:12] <Casper> or do you mean 40-80k?
[02:29:21] <dgriffi> lemme look again
[02:29:45] <Casper> and yes, the schem there is 4-7 as output, so the resistor there is to prevent an output short if you press 2 buttons at the same time
[02:30:13] <Casper> 1k would be the lowest I'ld use in this case, 10k should be fine
[02:30:24] <Casper> 100k might cause issues
[02:30:31] <rue_mohr> if you have two identicle mtoros on two identicle wheels on opposite sides of a robot the only way ou can ensure the robot goes straight is to have a tracking systemt hat adjust the speed of the wheels as they turn
[02:30:50] * Casper goes to bed
[02:30:56] <Casper> nite
[02:31:01] <rue_mohr> wow, lag
[02:31:19] <Casper> rue_mohr: yes you lag, as always
[02:31:28] <rue_mohr> always/
[02:31:35] <rue_mohr> I got an upgrade to fiber
[02:31:40] <rue_mohr> I'm not supposed to lag
[02:32:02] <rue_mohr> I think your just talking about me not living on my keybaord
[02:32:09] <rue_mohr> today I converted a rototiller to electric
[02:32:24] <rue_mohr> it'd been nice if the 2hp motor hadn't smoked like that
[02:32:29] <Casper> rue_mohr: do you have a suggestion for cellphone provider? :D
[02:32:43] <rue_mohr> hahah fiber teathered cellphone!
[02:33:04] <rue_mohr> "yea telus? I need a longer fiber..."
[02:33:35] <rue_mohr> "HOLD!? I _BEEN_ ON HOLD FOR 2 __HOURS__ NOW!"
[02:34:29] <Casper> o.O
[02:35:42] <dgriffi> I must have a dodgy keypad because it's giving me a resistance of 1M between switch terminals when the button is up
[02:35:56] <rue_mohr> yup
[02:36:23] <rue_mohr> give the inputs pullups (on the avr) and ground out the active lines
[02:36:29] <dgriffi> I I'm using this one:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8653
[02:36:40] <rue_mohr> that will make it resistant to the right resistance opens
[02:38:31] <rue_mohr> dgriffi,
[02:38:38] <dgriffi> yes?
[02:38:56] <rue_mohr> http://paste.debian.net/94504/
[02:39:04] <rue_mohr> does that give you any ideas?
[02:40:13] <dgriffi> hmm
[02:40:49] <rue_mohr> keep in mind that PINx will return the state of any output bits in the x port
[02:41:10] <rue_mohr> so if you inputs and outputs are on the same port, your gonna get a unique number when you read the PINx
[02:41:57] <dgriffi> next step is to get an LCD
[02:42:12] <rue_mohr> maybe
[02:42:14] <dgriffi> I've been getting my output by blinking lights
[02:42:47] <rue_mohr> leds are fine,
[02:42:58] <rue_mohr> I'm just showing you how I did a matrix keybaord
[02:43:01] <dgriffi> For my purposes right now, it's doing okay
[02:43:06] <rue_mohr> bascially, active low, not high
[02:43:16] <dgriffi> I see. yours seems more easily digestible than the other examples I've seen
[02:43:44] <rue_mohr> the numbers out of it dont make sense, but after knowing what they are, you just use them
[02:43:52] <dgriffi> one of the things I want to do with my project is to allow for key combos -- two keys maximium would suffice
[02:44:11] <rue_mohr> in a matrix without diodes, you get phantom keys
[02:44:20] <rue_mohr> C1 C2 C3
[02:44:23] <rue_mohr> R1
[02:44:24] <rue_mohr> R2
[02:44:25] <rue_mohr> R3
[02:45:20] <rue_mohr> if you push C1, R1 and C3,R3 it will look like R1,C3 and R3,C1 are also down
[02:45:32] <rue_mohr> because of the circuit paths in the keyboard
[02:45:55] <rue_mohr> if you want to do that you need a keyboard with individual connections or built with a diode on every key
[02:46:47] <rue_mohr> the diodes in series with the key ensure the path cant loop to create phantoms
[02:47:52] <dgriffi> what if I do it by scanning columns. "Which of these three keys are down?" then move to the next column.
[02:48:42] <rue_mohr> if your holding down the two keys, the connectins on the phatom keys have 0 ohms across them, they are effectivly down
[02:48:45] <rue_mohr> draw it out
[02:49:23] <rue_mohr> its not adding up to me right now, but I think I fell asleep a few hours ago
[02:49:48] <rue_mohr> maybe its a 3+ key problem
[02:50:02] <rue_mohr> ok this is hopeless, I'm going to bed
[02:50:19] <rue_mohr> output short
[02:50:31] <rue_mohr> yea, I'm going to bed
[02:51:31] <dgriffi> yeah.. I'll try asking tomorrow
[04:15:21] <anton02> is it more common to use a servo or a DC motor to steer a car in robotics projects?
[04:17:17] <megal0maniac> anton02: Think about it
[04:17:34] <megal0maniac> What is the difference between the two?
[04:17:52] <anton02> megal0maniac: one gives precise degrees of steering and the other doesnt
[04:18:06] <specing> there you go
[04:19:16] <megal0maniac> anton02: You've answered your own question. Do you want to adjust your steering by 30 degrees or do you want to go more or less in the direction of LEFT
[04:20:58] <anton02> well there is one other issue and i wonder just how much of an issue it is. when you're turning, the DC motor will have a max load placed on it after it moves all the way left and continues to steer the car left. I wonder how draining on the battery this would be.
[04:21:40] <megal0maniac> anton02: You're doing it again... Answering your own question
[04:21:45] <anton02> it would equal the stall current which is quite high
[04:21:59] <megal0maniac> By now it should be VERY clear that a DC motor is not the ideal tool for the job
[04:24:18] <megal0maniac> anton02: Please do a little bit of research before you ask on IRC. You're going to make people not want to help you. These questions have been answered before, multiple times in great detail
[04:55:49] <inflex> A lot of the time I find people ask such inane questions when they're seeking some sort of magical loophole that'll allow them to use what they have on hand rather than ordering or waiting for the parts they have on hand.
[04:56:25] <inflex> ie, consider how many times you see people asking painful questions about simulating AVR+electronics while they wait for their kits to arrive.
[06:42:52] <anton02> can u only use mouse IR encoders from ball mouses? in dark areas?
[06:43:10] <anton02> can u only use mouse IR encoders from ball mouses in dark areas?
[06:47:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> no
[06:47:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> they are IR.
[06:47:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> using them in bright sunlight might not be a good idea but if you shroud them they should be fine.
[06:48:15] <anton02> Lambda_Aurigae: probably be better to just use a mechanical encoder then for an RC car
[06:48:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> get some dead car radios with the spinning tuning wheels
[06:48:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> the kind that go clickclick ever so softly.
[06:49:22] <anton02> interesting. Are they used mainly in old toys?
[06:49:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> radios
[06:49:33] <Lambda_Aurigae> like, out of a car.
[06:49:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> modern car radios use them a lot.
[06:49:41] <anton02> oh
[06:49:53] <Lambda_Aurigae> the kind of dial that just spins and spins and never hits a stop.
[06:49:57] <Lambda_Aurigae> those are rotary encoders.
[06:50:16] <anton02> yeah i found one in my old mouse on the web wheel
[06:50:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> I find the ones in radios are a bit more robust.
[06:50:46] <Roklobsta> can i use a SPICE model of my circuit with AVR simulator and why not?
[06:51:15] <anton02> there's 3 pins in a line. I wonder if the 1st and 3rd would be vcc and gnd and the middle is the encoder's output
[06:51:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> Roklobsta, no clue.
[06:51:49] <Lambda_Aurigae> anton02, probably common, phase1, phase2
[06:52:29] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/rotary-encoder-tutorial
[06:55:39] <anton02> Lambda_Aurigae: that tutorial has phase1, common, phase2. i wonder how much variance there is between different manufacturers
[06:55:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> so I had them in the wrong order.
[06:56:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> I was just listing the connections, not necessarily the order.
[06:56:24] <Lambda_Aurigae> as for variance between manufacturers, look up datasheets.
[06:57:33] <anton02> i wonder if mouse IR encoders have phases like that too
[06:57:45] <Lambda_Aurigae> that's how they work.
[06:58:06] <Lambda_Aurigae> only, there will be a VCC and GND in there along with the two phase outputs.
[06:58:39] <Lambda_Aurigae> they will have vcc and gnd because they use phototransistors and LEDs.
[06:59:31] <anton02> weird i can only see 3 pins on the IR and 2 on the light
[06:59:52] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok...so you have 5 total rather than 4.
[07:00:05] <Lambda_Aurigae> they have separated the phototransistor and the LED
[07:00:14] <Lambda_Aurigae> or, rather, phototransistors.
[07:01:15] <anton02> oh u mean vcc for led, and none for IR
[07:01:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> or maybe they use photodiodes rather than phototransistors.
[07:01:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEQQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cqham.ru%2Fforum%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D32050%26d%3D1237457446&ei=UWFSU57VEI-MyATK84K4DQ&usg=AFQjCNHP-SL9ggfWkYvkCAN2Fo5X-toSSg&bvm=bv.65058239,d.aWw
[07:02:06] <anton02> thanks
[07:02:22] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/mouse.html
[07:02:30] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://hackaday.com/2008/05/16/how-to-scavenge-a-mouse-for-parts/
[07:04:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> everything you have been asking could have been answered with a simple google search or two.
[07:04:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> in fact, it has been, only I've been doing the google searches.
[07:09:54] <Lambda_Aurigae> http://hackaday.com/2014/04/19/the-pyro-board-a-two-dimensional-rubens-tube/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29
[08:41:49] <anton02> where this description says 'between stops' i wonder if that means the rotary can't keep rotating and is stopped.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SR1216
[09:31:03] <anton02> in the automobile industry i wonder whether they consider high mass moment of intertia wheels to be better or worse. pros: you can coast for longer due to more rotational kinetic energy being stored in them. cons: it will take more braking power to stop the car, and more load on engine to get the car going.
[09:40:49] <anton02> i was going to pid feedback a dual motor rear drive train to ensure that both motors are operating at the same velocity but then i realized all that's going to happen is that the faster motor will have its speed reduced until it matches the slower one so what you could instead do is determine the velocity difference and apply that speed to the faster motor and forget the PID loop
[10:59:10] <Lambda_Aurigae> anton02, yes, that rotary switch won't continuously spin.
[11:29:45] <Casper> anton02: high mass wheels are considered bad for all situation, except for cost
[11:30:04] <Casper> the only reason why you have steel wheels is the cost and strength
[11:30:06] <anton02> Casper: mass is a different property though
[11:31:09] <Casper> still related closelly
[11:31:36] <Casper> the more inertia it have, the more it "steal" from the engine power, killing acceleration and braking distance
[11:31:50] <Casper> also, it cause it to be harder to turn
[11:32:01] <Casper> as in change direction (steering)
[11:33:13] <anton02> Casper: do you know where I could get full rotation rotary encoders?
[11:35:00] <Casper> optical wheels... make one? :D
[11:35:27] <anton02> good idea. I'll make one if it's not too hard.
[11:35:44] <Casper> http://www.bushytails.net/~randyg/encoder/encoderwheel.html
[11:36:22] <anton02> Casper: what parts do you need? IR receiver and IR LED?
[11:39:15] <anton02> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZD1950 and
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZD1945
[11:55:18] <anton02> apparently you use something called a 'photointerrupter'
[15:21:59] <Jartza> dam
[15:32:01] <Lambda_Aurigae> anton02, if you just need speed you can use a wheel with regular slots cut in it and a single photodiode and LED combo.
[15:32:26] <Lambda_Aurigae> you don't really need a full rotary encoder if you know the direction and only need to know how far or how fast.
[15:44:17] <ColdKeyboard> I hate the guy who selected usb connector on the open workbench logic sniffer!
[16:16:41] <Xark> ColdKeyboard: Why? Did yours break off or something (or you prefer micro/B connector)?
[16:19:23] <ColdKeyboard> I prefer the one that is used by 99% of android phones now... But what can you do, it was designed before it was so popular... :\
[16:19:54] <ColdKeyboard> For some reason I'm not able to capture any data from my OWLS... I guess I'm setting some triggers wrong :\
[16:20:37] <ColdKeyboard> And I have 2 clients, one that I've downloaded from gadged factory/dangerous prototypes and one from OLS site... The one from OLS site, when I click get metadata I don't get anything :\
[16:26:34] <Xark> Hmm, I am quite happy with Jawi client.
http://www.lxtreme.nl/ols/
[16:27:01] <Xark> No metadata is good indication of a serial port issue.
[16:28:51] <ColdKeyboard> I'm using that one. And I don't get metadata. I have the device registered at COM10 and 115200... no idea why I don't get metadata... :\
[16:29:58] <Xark> Probably java serial library issue (at least I have heard of that happening to a lot of people). Like libftdi vs FDTI drivers or something...
[16:30:13] <Xark> (vs default java RXTX blah lib)
[16:31:30] <ColdKeyboard> How can I fix it? And how can I check which firmware version is running on my board? :)
[16:49:42] <ColdKeyboard> I didn't do the update firmware... not it's showing metadata but I'm confused about pins...
[16:53:43] <ColdKeyboard> How do I know which pin is which when I try to select trigger? I'm using RIGHT BUFFERED probe header and I'm using PIN that has 0/16 written above it. How do I know which group does it belong to? :\
[16:57:43] <Xark> ColdKeyboard: I believe first 8 pins are first group. Get metadata working before worrying about trigger. :)
[16:58:09] <ColdKeyboard> Metadata is working now :) I've had to run the update and now it's working.
[16:58:51] <ColdKeyboard> I'm selecting all groups and inside/outside pins and running capture without trigger to figure out what group does this pin belong to but no luck :\
[17:28:33] <ColdKeyboard> It's working now... I was confused but now it's working fine :)
[17:54:36] <chickenfillet> Why is a cap used between dtr and reset on avrs?
[17:55:20] <chickenfillet> I have seen people suggest this to connect to an ftdi connector.
[18:09:53] <Casper> low pass filter
[18:10:05] <Casper> prevent noise from triggering reset (very sensitive input)
[18:19:29] <chickenfillet> Fair enough, thanks.
[18:19:47] <chickenfillet> But common to have it in series?
[18:32:49] <Casper> in series, that would only allow pulses to pass, block DC
[23:20:25] <rue_house> http://youtu.be/tlFo9bbvUiw
[23:40:50] <Casper> too slow!