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[00:05:42] <Casper> Valen: you know what's funny?
[00:05:48] <Casper> board are getting simpler and simpler
[00:05:56] <Casper> yet, the price stayed the same
[00:07:01] <Casper> no more north bridge, soon there won't be any regulator, onboard video is now on cpu... soon they will include everything in the cpu...
[00:07:12] <Casper> and won't even have a southbridge... or even a bios
[01:02:49] <Valen> called inflation
[02:36:08] <FreezingCold> Okay so don't kill me because this is #avr, but I thought people here might have a good idea. For Cortex-M0's, what simulators are there out there? I want to try playing around with the NXP LPC810, can't find any sims though
[02:36:50] <Roklobsta> huh is this #arm?
[02:37:11] <Roklobsta> oh just buy a dev board
[02:37:14] <Roklobsta> they are so cheap
[02:37:16] <Roklobsta> don't be cheap
[02:37:32] <Roklobsta> it's not 1994 any more.
[02:44:27] <FreezingCold> Roklobsta: It's not about being cheap, it's more about being able to quickly/cheaply/easily analyze inputs and outputs of a program
[02:44:28] <w|zzy> chances are simulators will be massively more expensive than a dev board.
[02:44:58] <FreezingCold> w|zzy: completely different thing, but PIC has a decent simulator that's free (from Microchip) and another open source one
[02:49:19] <Roklobsta> I gooogled this dev board in 20 seconds.
http://www.nxp.com/demoboard/OM13053.html
[02:49:22] <Roklobsta> 810
[02:49:57] <w|zzy> I cbf on my phone
[02:50:14] <w|zzy> got some fancy stuff on that too!
[02:50:19] <w|zzy> Pot and a RGB!
[02:55:06] <FreezingCold> Roklobsta: dev board != simulator
[02:57:29] <Roklobsta> if it has a run time debugger then it's better.
[02:58:25] <Roklobsta> like that board has built in jtag. Embedded JTAG (LPC-LINK) functionality via LPCXpresso IDE
[02:58:39] <Roklobsta> you'll be spoon fed and have your bum wiped for you.
[03:09:06] <FreezingCold> I guess I could just stick the thing on a USB hub and throw it in a closest
[03:46:03] <Roklobsta> work drinks finished?
[03:49:49] <FreezingCold> what?
[03:50:02] <FreezingCold> closet*
[04:09:18] <rue_another> PIC will generally be more hastle
[04:09:49] <rue_another> but microchip makes lots of great things, eeprom chips, io expanders, op-amps
[04:19:15] <tzanger> what I really dislike abotu PIC is the proprietary tools. making me spin up a windows IDE (or worse, eclipse-based shit) to work is not going ot win me over
[04:21:23] <Roklobsta> well, i am sure they will cope without you
[04:22:03] <Roklobsta> oh i was saying abcminiuser is on a bit early for friday night.
[04:22:17] <abcminiuser> Wheee
[04:22:33] <abcminiuser> Girlfriend's out, hence I'm here tonight
[04:24:21] <rue_another> hey
[04:24:31] <rue_another> hows work?
[04:25:30] <abcminiuser> Worky
[04:25:38] <abcminiuser> Nice to work on consumer goods for a change
[04:25:46] <abcminiuser> I'm building the next product :S
[04:34:27] <rue_another> sweet
[04:35:08] <rue_another> stable designs?
[04:35:27] <rue_another> moving goalposts?
[04:36:01] <rue_another> whats with lufa, seems to be slipping as the leading usb stack for avr
[04:36:20] <abcminiuser> It is?
[04:36:32] <abcminiuser> For 8-bits it's still OK, haven't pushed it for AVR32/XMEGA
[04:37:02] <rue_another> it seems every time someone mentions, they are using something else
[04:37:19] <abcminiuser> Oh, haven't been keeping up
[04:37:23] <abcminiuser> What's the new alternative?
[04:37:28] <rue_another> dont recall
[04:37:47] <rue_another> not into usb yet :)
[04:37:53] <abcminiuser> Might be V-USB
[04:37:55] <abcminiuser> The software one
[04:38:07] <rue_another> I'v heard of it
[04:38:22] <rue_another> bitbang software?
[04:40:02] <abcminiuser> Jupp
[04:40:08] <abcminiuser> Popular, it runs on all the cheap AVRs
[04:40:18] <abcminiuser> But is pretty much limited to just low speed HID
[04:40:21] <abcminiuser> Enough for many people
[04:41:15] <rue_another> I thought you were the first to have all that going in a widely published lib
[04:42:23] <rue_another> didn't you start bitbanging and then migrate/expand to the chips with hardware usb?
[04:50:10] <Valen> v-usb is the debil
[04:50:15] <Valen> lufa ftw!
[05:00:52] <FreezingCold> tzanger: I've learned to warm up a little to their tools. I've got a decent setup with them now, all Linux and no Windows VMs or wine
[05:01:57] <Roklobsta> abcminiuser: hmmm, is it wifi enabled?
[05:04:14] <abcminiuser> Can't say
[05:04:23] <abcminiuser> But it's definetely looking to be a thing
[07:59:23] <Roamin> Could anyone explain to me why while(!(SPSR & (1<<SPIF))); and while(!(SPSR & (1<<SPIF))){} are different ? I thought ; and {} would be somewhat equivalent in such a statement? (Atmel studio)
[09:24:59] <Casper> Roamin: it is equivalent, however the optimiser may handle them differently... is your issue that one is ignored?
[09:47:49] <Roamin> This is not my exact statement, but yes, the latter (with the {} ) seems to happen just once where the one terminating with ; seems to execute until the condition really is met.
[09:49:07] <Roamin> i guess its safer to use ; since it will always be handled properly
[10:10:18] <rue_another> what optimization level do you have set?
[10:10:21] <rue_another> O3?
[10:11:32] <specing> Roamin: oh god please no
[10:12:13] <antto> wouldn't it be exactly the same?
[10:12:20] <antto> {} <- empty block
[10:12:27] <rue_another> I think o3 deletes code that appears to do nothing
[10:12:33] <antto> while (something); <- nothing
[10:12:43] <specing> #define bit_is_set (var, which) ((var & (1 << which)))
[10:12:51] <specing> now rewrute the above expressions
[10:13:54] <rue_more> better yet
[10:14:08] <rue_more> #define IsHigh(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) != 0
[10:14:08] <rue_more> #define IsLow(BIT, PORT) (PORT & (1<<BIT)) == 0
[10:15:42] <rue_more> while(IsLow(SPIF, SPSR);
[10:15:52] <rue_more> ^)
[10:17:25] <antto> so why would a compiler optimize that out?
[10:18:44] <rue_more> I'v had gcc do some interesting things at O3, iirc I leave it at O2 unless I'm trying to be crazy
[10:45:47] <tzanger> FreezingAlt: I'm a big fan of CLI. I imagine you can probably build projects from CLI now but debugging as far as I can tell requires their GUI
[10:47:07] <FreezingAlt> tzanger: MPLAB X and gpsim are both mostly/all GUI, couldn't actually find any CLI debuggers
[10:47:10] <FreezingAlt> anyway, off to bed
[10:51:45] <Casper> antto: -O3 tell the compiler to optimise as much as possible
[10:52:27] <Casper> a loop that just check a register appear to do nothing if there is no code, so just waste time, so is optimised out
[10:53:11] <Casper> softwares ain't the brightest thing on earth
[10:53:26] <Casper> bugs are more intelligent than most code
[11:19:42] <tzanger> I generally use -Os, I find space is usually the constraint
[11:20:09] <Casper> I generally use -O2
[11:20:30] <Casper> because dioxygen is soooo usefull! :D
[11:31:02] <dunz0r> Use -O3 and make a fusion reactor
[11:31:06] <dunz0r> Or is that H3?
[11:37:53] <bss36504> I am lookng for a single chip, programmable (I2C or SPI) switching regulator. I dont care too much about resolution, but adjustability range of <=1 to >=3.3 is a must. I will have upards of 4 of these, so if they share an i2C address, they cant be used. Any suggestions? This is proving to be a difficult hunt
[11:38:15] <bss36504> oh and output current of>=500mA
[11:52:00] <phinxy> Can i drive a solid state relay directly from my micro without a transistor? its rated 3 - 30 volts or so
[11:52:33] <phinxy> ive read that the relay is separating mains from the circuit anyways
[11:53:18] <bss36504> It depends on how much current you need to drive the input of the relay with. If it can switch at 3 volts and you have enough current, you’re probably good to go.
[11:53:25] <Tom_itx> what's it 's current rating?
[11:53:42] <Tom_itx> i drive one from logic
[11:56:07] <phinxy> Tom_itx: Trigger Current 7.5mA / 12V
[11:56:15] <phinxy> Min. ON / OFF Voltage ON > 2.4V , OFF < 1.0V
[11:56:19] <phinxy> Operating Voltage 3~32VDC
[11:56:57] <bss36504> You may want to just use an external transistor to drive it.
[11:58:56] <phinxy> output, Leakage Current 3.0mA
[11:59:07] <phinxy> anything to worry about?
[11:59:15] <Tom_itx> 3v would be marginal
[12:00:05] <phinxy> what model are you driving from logic tom?
[12:00:21] <bss36504> Well the max rating for all your ports is 20mA, and that is shared across 8 pins. at 7.5mA, you could* potentially not have enough current. Problem 2 is that 3 volts is the very bottom of the spec for the SSR
[12:00:43] <bss36504> Personally I’d play it safe and use some external triggering component
[14:45:19] <xfebytes> Does anyone know if abcminiuser still comes on here or are there any other Atmel employees here?
[14:45:39] <bss36504> He was on just the other day
[14:45:51] <bss36504> Although, hes not an Atmel employee anymore.
[14:46:02] <xfebytes> oh, has he moved on?
[14:46:27] <bss36504> Yeah he works for an aussie company now that makes smart led lightbulbs
[14:46:37] <Tom_itx> he's not an atmel employee
[14:49:24] <xfebytes> I'll have to see if I can catch him at some point. Maybe he still has some connections. I've been trying to get a timeline for the release of the SmartConnect Wi-Fi MCUs, but haven't had much luck. I thought that he was still working on application code for Atmel
[14:50:04] <bss36504> His last project was some sort of wireless demo device IIRC
[14:51:17] <xfebytes> Sounds like he might have even been working on it then, unless he was working with one of their wireless modules or the SmartConnect Zigbee application code
[15:39:32] <hotch> Hi everyone. Anyone ever use a mac where their ISP did not show up in their USB devices? Since using AVRs I was never able to get my AVR MKII to work. I’ve had to use an Arduino (which is annoying especially as I have a love now for AVRs without Arduino!)
[15:40:21] <hotch> For example when I `ls /dev/cu.*` I can see when I plug in my Arduino or serial FTDI, etc, but when I plug in my ISP, nothing displays, and I think that is the cause of my problems..
[15:46:50] <bss36504> Ooh, LTSpice is on mac now. Works great
[15:48:51] <xfebytes> are you specifically looking for something to show up as cu.*? Could it be that it is coming in under a different name?
[15:52:29] <xfebytes> try comparing the output of ls /dev before and after plugging in the ISP.
[15:52:44] <tzanger> it's been on mac for a while now
[15:52:48] <tzanger> I was using it in october
[15:54:33] <bezoka> is hard to learn attiny13?
[15:54:41] <bezoka> or that same way like atmega8?
[15:55:32] <bss36504> tzanger: of course, I wasnt trying to imply that I am the first to discover it, just making an observation. I like it a lot so far, seems less annoying than the windows version.
[21:47:41] <madist> why does
http://winavr.sourceforge.net/ redirect to
http://www.webring.org/hub/avr?w=1280;rh=http%3A%2F%2Fwinavr.sourceforge.net%2F;rd=1
[21:47:52] <madist> (my browser is not compromised)
[21:48:30] <rue_another> why are you using winavr?
[21:48:43] <rue_another> you just need gcc and the right makefile
[21:48:50] <madist> avrdude from the official site doesn't seem to support ftdi
[21:49:05] <madist> yeah I'm on windows and I'm lazy to build avrdude
[21:49:32] <rue_another> hmm
[21:50:35] <rue_another> http://doswa.com/2010/08/24/avrdude-5-10-with-ftdi-bitbang.html
[21:51:26] <rue_another> hmm patches...
[21:51:39] <madist> and libftdi will also have to be built
[21:51:54] <rue_another> http://doswa.com/2009/12/20/sparkfuns-ftdi-basic-breakout-as-an-avr-programmer.html
[21:51:55] <madist> and when I go to build libftdi I'll probably find it needs some other lib first
[21:52:08] * rue_another hates it when that happens
[21:52:49] <madist> when I said avrdude doesn't support ftdi I meant the binary build was built without the option
[21:52:57] <madist> avrdude does support ftdi
[21:54:01] * rue_another grumbles
[21:54:14] <rue_another> I have a pretty new avrdude, and ftdi isn't built in
[21:54:35] <madist> I downloaded 6.1 and it didn't have it built in
[21:54:40] <rue_another> bwmega = BitWizard ftdi_atmega builtin programmer
[21:54:41] <rue_another> ?
[21:54:51] <madist> avrftdi
[21:55:11] <rue_another> avrftdi = FT2232D based generic programmer
[21:55:43] <rue_another> is there info on it?
[21:56:04] <rue_another> the signal connections?
[21:56:05] <madist> no idea. I just started on this 10 minutes ago
[21:56:29] <rue_another> take a button cell and call me in a week
[21:58:30] * Casper throws one defective hd at rue_another's desk
[21:58:33] <Casper> hi ya
[21:58:56] * rue_another slides it off, onto the pile
[21:59:06] <Casper> big pile?
[21:59:36] <Casper> https://www.flickr.com/photos/93694432@N04/12995697334/ <=== that's the store one, all wiped and defective
[21:59:39] <rue_bed> something like 6 eaten by my phone system computer, 2 eaten by the router, and 1 from...
[22:00:15] <rue_bed> oh, not 1, but 3 eaten by one of the shop workstations
[22:00:19] <madist> Casper: have you considered taking up aluminium smelting as a hobby ?
[22:00:22] <madist> aluminium casting
[22:00:47] <Casper> madist: I did, no space
[22:00:47] <rue_bed> I do, I'm 2 tubs behind on dissassembly
[22:01:13] <rue_bed> mainly becuase I drew a line at 1G a while ago
[23:37:34] <rue_bed> I wonder how many programmers there are for PICS that are that can be home made and work on all pics
[23:46:11] <Xark> rue_bed: I haven't seen many DIY PICKit3 clones (which I think is required for newer chips). Tons of PICKit2 clones...