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[05:42:26] <megal0maniac_afk> Ordered samples from Atmel in October last year. ETA for the one chip is 3 April. ETA for the other is 19 May O_o
[05:43:17] <Xark> Can't complain for "free" I guess. :)
[05:43:56] <megal0maniac_afk> According the information I gave them, the project would have been finished by the end of March :P
[05:44:09] <megal0maniac_afk> Also I ordered a bus pirate. Yay
[05:49:17] <twnqx> make something better yourself
[05:49:20] <twnqx> with usb 3.0
[05:51:40] <megal0maniac_afk> Well...
[05:51:59] <megal0maniac_afk> The cypress ezusb chip that the Saleae logic is based on has a big brother now which does USB3.0
[05:54:04] <twnqx> but i think it's BGA only no? :P
[05:54:10] * twnqx is still scared of BGA
[05:54:27] <twnqx> actually, BGA and exposed center pads
[05:58:08] <Lambda_Aurigae> hetii, everything you need to know about how to build a programmer and write programming software is in the datasheet.
[08:51:29] <bezoka> Hello
[08:51:41] <bezoka> Is hard to learn Asembler for atmega8?
[08:52:00] <bezoka> or better is learn c for it
[08:54:41] <Casper> asm is not too hard, but C is way easier, and about the same speed. actually since you don't know asm then C will most probably be faster
[08:55:01] <Casper> I still suggest that you make a small led flasher project in assembler, so you understand how stuff work
[08:55:08] <Casper> but then switch to C
[08:55:32] <bezoka> I know little C
[08:55:39] <bezoka> but dont know how to learn Asembler :D
[08:55:50] <bezoka> or asembly ;D
[08:57:38] <N2TOH> http://ovens.reviewed.com/news/some-dude-hacks-microwave-puts-manufacturers-to-shame?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=cpc
[08:57:46] <N2TOH> it's cooler the the BSD toaster
[09:29:24] <vsync_> damn it's so cool
[09:29:42] <vsync_> i mean it tweets. it has internet. and resbery peeh
[09:29:51] <vsync_> wow. amazed.
[09:30:27] <vsync_> oh but hey, i proceeded to read the text. it said software engineer. I stopped right there
[09:31:27] <hetii> Hmm some days ago somebody from ehre show IDE programmer, where i can find it ?
[09:31:47] <hetii> ok i found it
[09:31:51] <vsync_> I think we need a ruspbarry pee toilet seat that takes pictures, tweets, facebooks, foursquares, instagrams and the likes when you take a dump
[09:32:02] <vsync_> internet synced clock obviously aswell...
[09:32:16] <vsync_> and voice control for ass wiping surely
[09:32:39] <vsync_> also it scans your poop for possible QR codes for flushing instructions
[09:33:05] <vsync_> if no codes are found it scans your poop anyway and compares it against topics found on WEB MD forums for health issues
[09:37:09] <vsync_> and because people probably need the internet to figure out how to wipe one's ass, if the seat detects no raspberry pee ass wiper shield(r)(tm), it proceeds to wikipedia for querying instructions on how to wipe your ass the right way and sends them to your phone via whatsapp
[09:38:24] <vsync_> i do believe this will be a huge success. Anyone interested in funding me?
[09:41:36] <vsync_> actually. With the retardity (is it a word) of the internet people I could probably net millions with this in kickstarter
[09:41:39] * myself throws gobs of money at vsync_'s crowdfunding platform
[09:41:59] <vsync_> thanks!
[09:45:59] <vsync_> I need to make a hardcore-version with arduino for more tech-savvy people
[10:12:21] <_abc_> Hello. Is there a 24 bit integer data type in avr-libc or some extension thereof please?
[10:12:33] <_abc_> I have to use 32 bit because my data range is more than 16 but 24 would be okay
[10:12:38] <twnqx> i seem to remember having reas something like that
[10:12:42] <_abc_> Language must be C
[10:13:04] <twnqx> yes
[10:54:56] <RikusW> vsync_: make an asm avr version, it will teach you how to make your own toilet paper :-D
[11:07:54] <bss36504> Hey guys, long time...anyway, has anybody ever experienced the "Could not read memory content for global variable" message while debugging? I'm on an Atmega32U4 with a JTAGICE3, and the compile time SRAM usage is ~256 bytes, so I should have plenty of space. Any thoughts?
[11:08:19] <bss36504> This message appears in the "locals" or "watch" windows.
[14:52:12] <daxxin> hi ..someone can tell what best logic ic to decode serial data to 7 segments lcd?
[14:53:48] <megal0maniac_afk> daxxin:
https://www.google.co.za/search?q=7+segment+driver+serial
[14:55:50] <daxxin> actually i have 4 x 74hc595 driving custom multiplexed lcd controlling 4 different measures 2 digit but since is broken i want sobstitude with simply 4 separated lcd
[14:56:18] <myself> a notebook-sized chunk of perfboard covered in 7400-series discrete gate ICs implementing a state machine karnaugh map btree ringbuffer tristate lifo chain
[14:56:41] <daxxin> what best choice ..decode the 595 output or decode the serial data from the cpu?
[15:02:43] <bss36504> Has anyone seen N1njaneer on here lately?
[15:06:59] <megal0maniac_afk> bss36504: 2014-03-22.log:00:07 < N1njaneer> Time for dinner - may log on from home!
[15:08:14] <megal0maniac_afk> GMT+2
[15:08:17] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm a bot :)
[15:08:48] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk: Ah, thanks. I've been off for a while, but before that I hadn't seen him in weeks.
[15:09:01] <bss36504> We're only one timezone apart so I was wondering where he went.
[15:10:55] <megal0maniac_afk> He was here on the 21st, then before that 6 Jan, then before that 20 Dec
[15:11:25] <bss36504> must be january was when I saw him last.
[15:11:38] <bss36504> he used to be on almost every day all day
[15:11:56] <megal0maniac_afk> Yeah, that was 20 Dec and before. 6 Jan was a one time appearance
[15:12:09] <megal0maniac_afk> Damn these logs (and grep) have been useful today!
[15:12:30] <bss36504> haha ya know, I could have thought of using the logs lol
[15:13:28] <megal0maniac_afk> Interesting. I pmd him and got -!- N1njaneer: No such nick/channel
[15:13:33] <megal0maniac_afk> Maybe not registerd
[15:13:38] <megal0maniac_afk> *registered
[15:13:48] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser!
[15:13:51] <megal0maniac_afk> Lifx guy!
[15:13:55] <megal0maniac_afk> Welcome
[15:13:58] <abcminiuser> Ahoy
[15:14:08] * abcminiuser is here for 5 mins then has to go to work
[15:14:18] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk: I doubt that he's not registered. I believe he once said that he's been using that nick for ages. Howdy, abcminiuser
[15:14:18] * megal0maniac_afk is leaving right now
[15:14:29] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk lies about his afk-ness
[15:14:48] <bss36504> hows the new job treating you abcminiuser?
[15:15:02] <abcminiuser> Much better now
[15:15:06] <synic> try /msg nickserv info n1njaneer
[15:15:07] <megal0maniac_afk> When I'm afk it means I'm procrastinating, because I shouldn't be on IRC. But changing to not-afk means admitting that I'm procrastinating :P
[15:15:16] <abcminiuser> First few weeks were very rough, but happy now
[15:15:43] <bss36504> well thats good. What do you do for them? They make LED systems, right?
[15:15:55] <abcminiuser> Jupp, smart wifi/mesh LED bulbs
[15:16:05] <abcminiuser> I'm one of the FW engineers, working on the current and next-gen products
[15:16:24] <abcminiuser> There's three FW engineers, so I'm 33% of the engineering capacity :P
[15:16:33] <abcminiuser> Well, FW enigneering - there's apps guys too
[15:16:37] <bss36504> Interesting. Is this like "the internet of things" for light bulbs? That's pretty intense.
[15:16:49] <abcminiuser> Jupp -- www.lifx.co
[15:16:54] <abcminiuser> We released APIs yesterday
[15:17:09] <abcminiuser> Only in hippy Ruby, Obj-C and Android but still...
[15:17:42] <bss36504> dear lord, $99USD for a lightbulb
[15:17:49] <megal0maniac_afk> bss36504: But it has wifi
[15:17:55] <megal0maniac_afk> And 25 year lifespan!
[15:18:07] <bss36504> I suppose, but that initial investment...
[15:18:25] <abcminiuser> bss36504, I thought the same thing but hey, we can't make them fast enough
[15:18:52] <megal0maniac_afk> There's a particular market for those. I don't think people who hang out in #avr is that market :P
[15:19:00] <bss36504> I guess there is a niche for crazy expensive fancy lightbulbs. good for you guys I guess haha
[15:19:07] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk: Probably correct lol
[15:19:31] <abcminiuser> They pay my salary so I BELIEVE DAMNIT
[15:19:48] <megal0maniac_afk> I recently stumbled upon wifi SD cards
[15:19:53] <abcminiuser> Also I get to use them at home while I test the FW so I at least think they work OK
[15:20:02] <megal0maniac_afk> And now I want to buy one and hack it
[15:20:02] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac_afk, those have been around for donkey's years
[15:20:03] <bss36504> Haha I work for a startup coasting on investments with no product, but by golly, I have to believe we'll make money someday
[15:20:05] <abcminiuser> Eye-fi cards
[15:20:26] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser: Yeah, so I've discovered
[15:20:29] <myself> eye-fi cards are awful, grab the keyasic-based one, they're a lot more hackable
[15:20:37] <abcminiuser> Or that
[15:20:48] <megal0maniac_afk> myself: Was looking at the Transcend variant. It's also keyasic
[15:20:51] <myself> keyasic is inside the transcend, the flucard, the pqi wifi card..
[15:20:55] <megal0maniac_afk> It's the only one I can get locally
[15:20:56] <abcminiuser> Why is there only ever interesting chat here just as I need to go places?
[15:21:05] <abcminiuser> I keep it on all evening and nada
[15:21:05] <myself> to encourage you to log?
[15:21:11] * abcminiuser pokes room with stick
[15:21:14] <bss36504> abcminiuser: because you only sign on when you have to leave? :P
[15:21:15] <abcminiuser> Be interesting damnit
[15:21:18] <megal0maniac_afk> Your presence is inspiring
[15:21:18] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser we plan it around your schedule
[15:21:25] <abcminiuser> Hehe
[15:21:27] <megal0maniac_afk> And Tom_itx does that thing
[15:21:28] <abcminiuser> "He's gone!"
[15:21:33] <abcminiuser> Damnit, gotta go
[15:21:36] <abcminiuser> Talk this evening
[15:21:37] <bss36504> Say something cool guys!
[15:21:39] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm also gone. I'm doing maths
[15:21:48] <bss36504> I have an essay to write. yuck
[15:21:53] <megal0maniac_afk> Bye Dean! Enjoy work
[15:22:09] <abcminiuser> Cheers
[15:22:13] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm laplacing all of the things
[15:22:16] <Tom_itx> later
[15:22:31] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk: oh what fun that is.
[15:22:52] <bss36504> I haven't laplaced since last thursday
[15:27:44] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser is bad at logging off
[15:28:03] <megal0maniac_afk> Actually, that isn't fair. He doesn't log off often enough for me to judge
[15:47:15] * hjohnson is trying to figure out how to handle the twi bus on the xmega
[15:49:24] <megal0maniac_afk> I gave up on that
[15:49:33] <bss36504> is it that bad?
[15:49:35] <megal0maniac_afk> twi scared me
[15:49:39] <megal0maniac_afk> In general
[15:49:48] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm feeling braver now, though
[15:50:56] <hjohnson> lol
[15:51:03] <hjohnson> naw, it's just a fairly complex piece of kit
[15:51:52] <bss36504> Well atmel TWI is just I2C, right? not too bad I believe.
[15:52:07] <bss36504> I assume you're looking at AVR1308 hjohnson
[15:54:49] <megal0maniac_afk> twi/smbus/i2c is all much the same
[15:54:57] <bss36504> exactly.
[15:55:34] <bss36504> I've tinkered with I2C on the megas and some freescale chips. seems straightforward enough.
[15:56:10] <bss36504> Soon I'll be building a full custom, memory-mapped FPGA device using the omega EBI. Now THAT is a bit scary.
[15:56:21] <bss36504> omega=xmega. dumb autocorrect.
[16:06:12] <jadew> what is EBI?
[16:06:41] <bss36504> jadew: External Bus interface. It's for linking+memory mapping SRAMs and SDRAMs.
[16:07:01] <jadew> ah, good to know, never used it
[16:07:07] <bss36504> Me neither haha
[16:07:24] <bss36504> should be a bit of an adventure
[16:07:45] <jadew> so you're trying to emulate ram with the FPGA and have it do something else?
[16:07:52] <bss36504> yup
[16:08:28] <jadew> nice idea
[16:08:31] <bss36504> Going to use a Spartan 3AN FPGA, which has 18K blocks of RAM internally, and then write some glue logic to map the EBI into it.
[16:08:47] <jadew> I have 5 of those on the way too
[16:08:52] <jadew> the 50k gates one
[16:09:08] <bss36504> Yeah they're pretty badass. I was quite enthused when I found them
[16:09:12] <jadew> just cuz it has persitency and I find that nice
[16:09:30] <bss36504> The internal flash and SRAM make it really awesome. No tricky external memories or anything.
[16:09:37] <jadew> yep
[16:09:58] <bss36504> I might go with the 200K gate ones for this project, depends on what we need.
[16:10:28] <bss36504> I have no idea how much "stuff" you can fit into "x number of gates" so I'll try and err on the high side
[16:10:49] <bss36504> Gate counts aren't as intuitive as memory sizes
[16:10:50] <jadew> you'll know when you reach the top
[16:11:04] <jadew> and you start to change the design to make it fit
[16:11:19] <jadew> I realized a few days ago what 72 macrocells can fit - not much
[16:11:30] <bss36504> which cpld?
[16:11:38] <jadew> the xc9572
[16:12:18] <jadew> I was able to put an SPI slave module in there and 2 registers of 28 and 24 bits
[16:12:51] <jadew> had to modify the SPI design a bit and was still about 10 macrocells short when I wanted to add a few more 1 bit registers (like... 2)
[16:13:09] <bss36504> wow, plus no other logic? I know the fitter tries to use the most macrocells possible for efficiency
[16:13:17] <jadew> very, very little logic
[16:13:24] <jadew> like 20 lines tops
[16:13:25] <megal0maniac_afk> I've got a Spartan 3AN too
[16:13:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Haven't used it much
[16:13:55] <megal0maniac_afk> 200k gate version
http://www.xess.com/shop/product/xula-200/
[16:13:56] <jadew> I have a spartan 3E dev board, 500k gates
[16:14:07] <jadew> I use that to write and test stuff
[16:14:49] <megal0maniac_afk> It's really nice, it has a uC to program it, SPI flash for bitstreams, RAM, good documentation and lots of code
[16:15:08] <megal0maniac_afk> Library for interfacing with RAM is included
[16:15:18] <bss36504> nice, thats pretty cool
[16:15:39] <megal0maniac_afk> That's the baby
[16:15:47] <megal0maniac_afk> http://www.xess.com/shop/product/xula2-lx9/
[16:16:18] <megal0maniac_afk> And there's the LX25 for $119
[16:16:41] <megal0maniac_afk> 1.5 million gates
[16:16:45] <bss36504> We're going hardcore for this design. Full custom from the start 0_0
[16:17:06] <bss36504> When i say "we're" I mean me an one other guy at my company are doing this.
[16:17:25] <megal0maniac_afk> That does sound pretty awesome
[16:17:28] <bss36504> And we need it to work reliably when it's done
[16:19:27] <megal0maniac_afk> I recommend the XuLA to everyone though :P
[16:19:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Because it is great
[16:19:46] <megal0maniac_afk> And the guy who makes them is also great
[16:22:12] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk, jadew: If you're interested:
http://imgur.com/0uyaFsy
[16:22:43] <megal0maniac_afk> "Redacted" :P
[16:22:53] <bss36504> haha basically
[16:23:32] <jadew> what did you use to make that?
[16:23:55] <jadew> I want to document my current project and I want to draw things like that :D
[16:25:06] <megal0maniac_afk> jadew: How far did you get with the logic analyser project?
[16:25:11] <bss36504> I used an online tool called lucidchart
[16:25:13] <jadew> this is my fpga devboard:
http://dumb.ro/files/fpga_dev_board.jpg
[16:25:23] <jadew> megal0maniac_afk, pretty far, why do you ask?
[16:25:35] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/lafront/
[16:25:40] <jadew> the screenshots are not up to date
[16:26:06] <jadew> it has search functionality, auto re-arm so it works like a scope (very slow tho...)
[16:26:08] <megal0maniac_afk> jadew: Because I ordered bus pirate yesterday and it works with SUMP too
[16:26:19] <jadew> ah, I'm not sure it will work with the bus pirate...
[16:26:24] <jadew> I don't have one to test
[16:26:27] <megal0maniac_afk> Well I'll let you know :P
[16:26:30] <jadew> but you can give it a try anyway
[16:26:35] <megal0maniac_afk> Should be exactly the same protocol
[16:27:47] <megal0maniac_afk> That is one cool devboard
[16:28:01] <megal0maniac_afk> Although the red DP OLS makes it look cooler :P
[16:28:16] <jadew> hehe, it's really nice that it fits just right in there
[16:28:21] <megal0maniac_afk> Is that a legitimate platform USB?
[16:28:29] <jadew> so I can simply route signals to that port and see them in the LA
[16:28:36] <jadew> megal0maniac_afk, no
[16:28:44] <jadew> got it for like $30
[16:29:11] <megal0maniac_afk> Ah, one of those
[16:29:20] <jadew> it works fine
[16:29:23] <jadew> no complaints yet
[16:29:40] <jadew> after all, it just has to send the bitstream to the chip :)
[16:29:56] <megal0maniac_afk> Yip :)
[16:30:02] <megal0maniac_afk> I was considering this:
http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=JTAG-HS1
[16:30:11] <megal0maniac_afk> Well, that's what I'll get if I ever need JTAG
[16:30:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Since it works with the xilinx tools, so I can debug
[16:31:25] <jadew> that's a bit expensive
[16:31:27] <jadew> why that one?
[16:32:33] <megal0maniac_afk> Because it's the cheapest and smallest thing that works with the Xilinx tools. The clones I've seen are around $50
[16:32:47] <megal0maniac_afk> So may as well spend $5 more for something legit
[16:34:06] <megal0maniac_afk> Okay, I'm out. 'Night
[16:37:07] <jadew> night
[16:41:43] <jadew> bss36504, thanks for lucidchart, I didn't notice your reply
[16:42:28] <sabesto> anyone familiar with Keil C51?
[16:44:11] <sabesto> http://pastebin.com/p7ThkfcJ
[16:44:48] <sabesto> i'm only familiar with avr-gcc, trying to port a lib i wrote to a silabs chip using keil c51
[16:44:58] <sabesto> having problems with that struct
[16:45:07] <sabesto> UNRESOLVED EXTERNAL SYMBOL
[16:50:50] <bss36504> no problem, jadew
[18:27:51] <hetii> Q: Any idea if its possible to expose SPI interface from USB SD card reader to the system ?
[18:29:12] <hetii> Here i found that xecuter team use card reader as NAND programmer:
http://team-xecuter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92060&highlight=ISP+programmer
[18:36:50] <Lambda_Aurigae> generally a USB SD card reader doesn't use the SPI interface..it uses the SD proprietary interface.
[18:42:28] <hetii> Lambda_Aurigae: i suppose it depend on cards and their capabilities
[18:43:23] <Lambda_Aurigae> the spi option on the cards is a slower serial interface..the real interface that is used on high speed readers is a pseudo-parallel 4 bit nibble at a time thingie.
[18:43:56] <Lambda_Aurigae> I'm not sure how they are hacking that reader as they don't give any details.
[18:44:16] <Lambda_Aurigae> I suspect it won't work for all readers but not sure.
[18:44:29] <hetii> Yep :( i try contact with them and get some details.
[18:45:26] <hetii> but about SPI mode, i suppose its used first to negotiate the cards capabilities and if the card support high speed then its switched to 1/4/8 bit mode.
[18:45:47] <Lambda_Aurigae> yeah.
[18:46:34] <Lambda_Aurigae> but from the PC side of the world you don't see the different interfaces,,,just the final product of a mass storage device.
[18:47:10] <hetii> as i read such card reader use then SCSI command to talk with usb mass storage class. But i`m not sure if its possible or not by custom driver expose SPI interface to userspace
[18:47:25] <Lambda_Aurigae> I seriously doubt it.
[18:47:41] <Lambda_Aurigae> would be interested to hear if you do it though.
[18:48:25] <hetii> yep :) there are so many nice reader that could be used to control any SPI devices or used as a ISP programmer ;)
[18:48:59] <Lambda_Aurigae> use a microcontroller to simulate an SD card then write file to it to upload program
[18:49:54] <hetii> I found also such link
http://libusb.org/wiki/FAQ#CanIuselibusbtoopenafileonaUSBstoragedevice
[18:50:13] <hetii> libusb can be used for low-level communication with USB Mass Storage Class devices.
[18:50:28] <Lambda_Aurigae> yup...to a point.
[18:51:13] <Lambda_Aurigae> can access the mass storage interface.
[18:51:42] <Lambda_Aurigae> which doesn't care if it is an SD, usb thumb drive, usb harddrive, or usb floppy drive..
[18:52:18] <Lambda_Aurigae> you can basically send command to select a block on the device then read or write it, more or less.
[18:55:20] <hetii> hmm
[18:55:40] <Lambda_Aurigae> and possibly access the S.M.A.R.T. info.
[18:56:26] <hetii> General we need two things, first is set the SPI mode with SCK frequency and then command that will be able to read/write data from the bus
[19:06:12] <hetii> Lambda_Aurigae: ok, have no more power today, will keep you update if I discover some useful information.
[19:07:09] <Lambda_Aurigae> ok.
[19:07:20] <Lambda_Aurigae> they cut the power at dark around your place?
[19:18:48] <hetii> why ?:)
[19:18:58] <hetii> ahh
[19:19:22] <hetii> I just said that my mind are tired :)
[19:22:37] <vsync_> multiple minds?
[19:24:43] <Lambda_Aurigae> those of you who are alone in your heads are just jealous of those of us who aren't.
[19:47:32] <anton02> what's a good way to modularize the circuit board of something? i was thinking maybe you could have flat terminals on the underside of the PCB which would line up with their corresponding terminals on the thing you're attaching it to
[19:49:36] <Tom_itx> stackable headers
[19:49:52] <Tom_itx> ie pc104
[19:53:30] <anton02> that could work. But just to make clear, I do mean attaching and removing the whole PCB from a vehicle and not modularizing the components of a PCB
[19:58:56] <Tom_itx> card edge
[19:59:40] <hetii> Lambda_Aurigae: I just got answer from Matthew Dharm who is a author of linux driver for usb mass storage device that my idea will not work, because the usb-storage protocol doesn't expose anything that low-level.
[20:01:16] <hetii> But i found also this thread:
http://uzebox.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=290, so it should be possible to write a bootloader for avr that will emulate sd card, and transfer new firmware by drag and drop :)
[20:53:37] <anton02> are there cables that you can plug into IDC headers?
[20:54:23] <Tom_itx> sure
[20:55:03] <Tom_itx> like hdd connectors
[20:55:47] <anton02> i was thinking of having the cable connect to the idc header and then separate the wires of the ribbon cable and connect them to different components on the PCB
[20:56:19] <Tom_itx> why?
[20:56:24] <anton02> such as the microcontroller
[20:56:40] <Tom_itx> why not run traces from a pcb mount cable connector?
[20:56:54] <anton02> how do you do that?
[20:57:20] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/commerce/12v_TPI_Prog_top.jpg
[20:57:23] <Tom_itx> like that connector
[20:58:22] <anton02> how do you create traces though?
[20:58:30] <Tom_itx> with eagle
[20:58:35] <Tom_itx> i made those boards
[20:58:45] <anton02> can you buy eagle?
[20:58:58] <Tom_itx> yeah or you can download and use it free
[20:59:22] <Tom_itx> i purchased it
[20:59:28] <anton02> but how does a program create a trace? using what equipment?
[21:00:21] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[21:00:28] <Tom_itx> laser toner transfer
[21:00:34] <Tom_itx> then etch the board
[21:00:47] <Tom_itx> i had those other ones made at a board house though
[21:01:28] <anton02> i guess if i was going that route, i'd first want to get a draft board working first
[21:04:17] <anton02> Tom_itx: when you etch the board, does that make solder stick to the board traces?
[21:04:27] <anton02> or is it just so you know where to solder
[21:05:02] <Tom_itx> the board is copper clad, you remove copper where you don't want it
[21:05:22] <Tom_itx> then solder where you need to
[21:05:39] <anton02> oh
[21:06:01] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI1.jpg
[21:06:03] <Tom_itx> like that
[21:07:11] <tzanger> Tom_itx: nice
[21:07:43] <Tom_itx> that's a tiny10
[21:13:04] <anton02> what chemicals do i need
[21:13:10] <anton02> to make a board
[21:14:03] <tzanger> ammonium persulfate is really about it
[21:14:22] <tzanger> ferric chloride if you want to go oldschool but really ammonium persulfate is way better
[21:14:39] <Tom_itx> fecl3 is nasty
[21:14:50] <tzanger> #1 thing to make sure you do is to CLEAN YOUR BOARD before you put the resist on
[21:15:12] <tzanger> one thing people tend to forget is that clean copper is actually hot pink. dirty copper is copper coloured
[21:17:02] <tzanger> you want a fast etch which means you want to heat your etchant (not hot hot hot but probably 30C)
[21:17:36] <Tom_itx> i preheated mine in a sink of hot water
[21:17:41] <Tom_itx> in a bottle of course
[21:17:49] <tzanger> you also want agitation, swishing the board around at a minimum, if you're going to make a lot of boards at home you should invest in a little aquarium air pump and run a bubbler hose on teh bottom of your tank to bubble air through the etchant
[21:18:37] <Tom_itx> like that?
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/newtank2.jpg
[21:18:51] <tzanger> it's been a real long time since I've actually made my own boards, I tend to do more 4 layer designs now and frankly people like hackvana (on this chan and in #hackvana) make top-quality boards with soldermask and silkscreen for an incredible price
[21:19:15] <Tom_itx> yeah i've used him since he first started
[21:19:23] <Tom_itx> amongst others
[21:19:26] <tzanger> Tom_itx knows what he's doing, that's a great tank
[21:33:48] <hackvana> tzanger: Tom_itx: :-)
[21:34:49] <rue_more> void checkButtons(void) {
[21:34:49] <rue_more> // gcc hey, can you just do this one up for me, I mean, its kinda obvious from the name.
[21:34:49] <rue_more> }
[21:35:03] <anton02> how does printing toner to a copper board cause the copper to fall off?
[21:35:18] <Tom_itx> it creates a mask
[21:35:25] <Tom_itx> the open copper is what is removed
[21:35:30] <tzanger> anton02: it doesn't
[21:35:32] <Tom_itx> then you wash the toner off
[21:35:40] <Tom_itx> and you have the traces you wanted
[21:35:45] <tzanger> anton02: like Tom_itx says, the toner prevents the etchant from eating the copper under the toner
[21:36:09] <tzanger> actually yeah it's exactly like a painting mask
[21:36:25] <hackvana> Like this (but this is the photo method, not the toner transfer method)
http://capnstech.blogspot.com/2011/05/playpause-making-pcbs-at-home.html
[21:36:26] <anton02> so is it the hydrogen peroxide that dissolves the copper
[21:36:29] <tzanger> you put down the tape and it doesn't matter how much you paint the tape, when you take the tape off, the original colour is still there
[21:37:05] <tzanger> ammonium persulfate yes
[21:37:41] <tzanger> I'm no chemist but I don't think I've ever heard of h2o2 etching copper
[21:38:05] <hackvana> There's a yahoo group called homebrew PCB that is a good place to ask questions
[21:38:36] <anton02> hydrogen peroxide and hydrochloric acid are cheaper arent they
[21:38:38] <tzanger> it's baffling that yahoo is still around, much less for newsgroups
[21:38:46] <anton02> you prepare them in a 1:3 ratio
[21:38:54] <rue_more> iirc the h2o2 is to speed up the effect of the ACID your supposed to use with it
[21:41:50] <anton02> oh good i found some cheap ammonium persulfate
[22:20:56] <rue_more> anyone have a fav way to do software button debounce?
[22:42:04] <bss36504> rue_more: Just delay and recheck, thats how I do it.
[23:11:45] <rue_more> unsigned char A = 0x255;
[23:11:55] <rue_more> ho hum
[23:13:42] <Casper> o.O
[23:13:49] <Casper> someone screwed up?
[23:19:33] <rue_more> http://paste.debian.net/89642/
[23:19:36] <rue_more> thoughts?
[23:20:40] <rue_more> wrong operators is a good one
[23:20:54] <rue_more> I think
[23:22:11] <rue_more> yea
[23:22:17] <Casper> what a big broken piece of code!
[23:22:34] <rue_more> just got the operators wrong
[23:22:39] <rue_more> init dosn't matter
[23:25:25] <rue_more> http://paste.debian.net/89643/
[23:25:27] <rue_more> hmmm
[23:27:03] <rue_more> I wonder if thats enough debounce
