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[00:04:19] <anton02> Casper: oh, so by choosing a propertiary closed-source format, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, because you're being given the wheel when you buy the device. As opposed to RF which would be cheaper but you'd have to do extra work.
[00:08:07] <anton02> d
[00:08:14] <anton02> can you still hear me
[00:09:36] <Casper> anton02: there is some cheap RF modules, but are more complex often to use
[00:10:35] <anton02> you pay royalty for bluetooth
[00:14:19] <Casper> I don't know if those are good, but look at this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30ft-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL-for-arduino-HC-06-/331152506140?pt=Home_Automation_Modules&hash=item4d1a3a3d1c
[00:15:38] <Casper> the main issue with wifi is that you have to also have a tcp/ip stack, which is quite complex
[00:16:08] <anton02> Casper: what is arduino?
[00:17:37] <Casper> avr based developpement/toy board
[00:17:44] <Casper> ignore the arduino part
[00:18:04] <Casper> but basically anything bearing the name "arduino" can connect
[00:19:14] <anton02> Casper: good, because I'm not allowed to use prebuilt PCBs with microcontrollers. I need to solder my own microcontroller to a PCB
[00:19:38] <Casper> an arduino come with a board, an AVR chip, some misc devices/stuff/junk/goodies, a bootloader and the idiotic C library that encourage people to write in the worst way possible, all to supposelly simplify programming
[00:20:47] <anton02> Casper: can you use any avr chip? How about an atmega 64? Is there something better?
[00:22:37] <Casper> there is better, but it depend on your soldering capability
[00:22:54] <Casper> look at the atmel parametric tables, or the one on digikey
[00:26:10] <anton02> Casper: i wonder why the one you linked it so much cheaper than
http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,401,947&Prod=PMOD-BT2
[00:33:58] <Casper> china vs the rest of thw world, the problem with china is the shipping time
[00:36:07] <Valen> how many thousand do you want to make?
[00:36:48] <anton02> Valen: 2 single ones
[00:36:56] <Valen> get a pre-made module
[00:37:20] <Valen> any amount of money you spend to simplify it will be cheaper than trying to roll your own
[00:37:22] <anton02> Valen: bluetooth module? Such as the digilent one you mean?
[00:37:35] <Valen> nfi, the medium is basically irrilivent
[00:37:57] <Valen> bluetooth has the advantage that you may be able to drive whatever it is from a mobile phone if you do enough work
[00:38:03] <Valen> I'd go with a serial bridge
[00:38:17] <Valen> so you send serial data in, it brings it out at the far end
[00:38:24] <anton02> Valen: i dont know what you mean by pre-made module
[00:38:42] <Valen> if soldering a MCU to something is a big thing for you, you need to simplify as much as you can
[00:39:19] <anton02> Valen: this is a premade module though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30ft-Wireless-Bluetooth-RF-Transceiver-Module-serial-RS232-TTL-for-arduino-HC-06-/331152506140?pt=Home_Automation_Modules&hash=item4d1a3a3d1c
[00:39:27] <anton02> That's what ill get.
[00:39:37] <Valen> yeah something like that
[00:39:52] <Valen> though you do want TTL not rs232 so be aware of that
[00:40:08] <Valen> I'd think about getting something with better support though
[00:40:23] <Valen> something from maxstream perhaps
[00:40:51] <Casper> Valen: that's a link I gave him as the first ebay link, cheapest, didn't went deeper
[00:41:25] <anton02> Valen: what's the difference between TTL and rs232?
[00:41:38] <Casper> RS232 is what the pc output
[00:41:50] <Casper> 12V for logic 0 and -12V for logic 1
[00:41:56] <Casper> and yes, minus 12V
[00:42:03] <Casper> and yes, also inverted
[00:42:11] <Casper> TTL is 0/5V
[00:42:19] <Casper> which is what your avr "speak"
[00:42:45] <anton02> so the rs232 would be for USB to PC
[00:42:57] <Casper> no
[00:43:01] <Casper> serial pc
[00:43:04] <Casper> the DB9
[00:43:33] <Casper> usb-serial also speak rs232 if it have a db9 (but the output voltage may be less, like +/-6V
[00:44:42] <anton02> Casper: the ebay link you gave me has both rs232 AND TTL in the heading: 30ft Wireless Bluetooth RF Transceiver Module serial RS232 TTL
[00:45:19] <braincracker> <clixxIO> but I'm wondering, can I2C on AVR be implemented on any two pins? < no it can't though i did it on a 8 bit atmega
[00:45:53] <braincracker> hey guys, what's the situation?
[00:46:24] <anton02> Casper: so what's going on there?
[00:46:28] <Casper> anton02: I didn't checked more than that there, but it may have a TTL output and a TTL-RS232 converter on it
[00:47:04] <Casper> braincracker: you have 2 ways of doing it: hardware on 2 dedicated pins, or in software, then you can use anything, but use way more ressources and more error prone (bitbanging)
[00:50:37] <Valen> use hardware ;->
[00:50:42] <Valen> and interrupts
[00:51:06] <Valen> it'll save much gnashing of teeth later
[00:51:07] <Casper> yup, but that limit him to 2 pins, but best way when possible
[00:51:11] * megal0maniac_afk unearths a 114 yo tree
[00:51:20] * megal0maniac_afk beats specing to the ground
[00:51:23] <Casper> and if not, better fix it so it work
[00:51:24] * megal0maniac_afk leaves
[00:51:42] <Valen> it sounds like a clean sheet design, I'd suggest make that a requirement lol
[00:51:52] * Casper puts megal0maniac_afk in the snowbank in front of the snowblower of the city (they are cleaning the street)
[00:52:54] <braincracker> Casper i did it in software, but on 2 int pin, works nice nonblocking
[00:53:50] <braincracker> std does not work out for me.
[01:07:02] <braincracker> Casper<= what is your project now ?
[01:25:16] <Casper> braincracker: trying to understand smps
[01:25:29] <Casper> the info for them is quite meh
[01:25:50] <braincracker> smps re simple
[01:26:21] <braincracker> transformer calculations are a little difficult
[01:26:46] <Casper> smps theory is simple, in practice... not as much
[01:26:53] <Casper> specially when you try to hack an existing one
[01:27:16] <Casper> it use a tl431 with opto feedback, and a... UA3842 iitc
[01:27:34] <Casper> yes, the 3842
[01:27:48] <Casper> trying to add output current limiting
[01:36:05] <braincracker> ok that works fine
[01:36:41] <braincracker> well does the switch mosfet have resistors ?
[01:36:55] <braincracker> if it does, it will limit output short circuit current
[01:59:56] <Casper> it's an ATX psu that I want to convert to a charger
[02:02:28] <Casper> but if I use a pnp... I think I can easilly add current limiting
[02:20:50] <braincracker> Casper sure, but that will dissipate and drop voltage
[02:21:11] <Casper> except if you put the feedback after it
[02:22:41] <Casper> pnp... emitter on "in" of the shunt, base on 100R to "out" of shunt... collector to res to feedback... shall do the trick I guess
[02:23:21] <Casper> when the out drop bellow 0.3V it should start to turn on the pnp, which redirect some power to the feedback, causing it to lower the output voltage
[02:23:25] <Casper> so the current
[02:37:29] <braincracker> oh i see what you did there
[02:37:49] <braincracker> note it will drop 666mV
[02:37:50] <Casper> that.s what I'm gonna try tomorrow actually
[02:38:12] <Casper> isn't pnp ~0.3V and npn ~0.65V?
[02:38:19] <braincracker> you need an opamp to get it lower
[02:38:20] <Casper> I'm not used to work with pnp...
[02:38:51] <braincracker> germanium transistors open at about 0.3V i think
[02:38:59] <braincracker> do you have some to try ?
[02:39:01] <Casper> 2n3906?
[02:39:06] <braincracker> that is si
[02:39:06] <Casper> yeah... I think
[02:39:16] <Casper> I'll just fire up pspice and test
[02:39:32] <Casper> with a mockup of the feedback
[02:39:52] <Casper> http://www.pocketmagic.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/simple_smps_4B.png <=== it'S not that psu, but the feedback should be simmilar
[02:40:05] <Casper> since it use the same IC, and a tl431 and opto
[02:40:41] <Casper> so basically would put the res on the high side, between that power resistor there and the feedback path
[06:26:54] <antto> how bad could the function call overhead be from a void func(void) to a void func(.. a bunch of params ..) ?
[06:32:32] <twnqx> a push for each and every paramater
[06:32:52] <twnqx> plus register saving in the called function
[06:32:53] <ColdKeyboard> What is the best practice to put some data from one function into an global array?
[06:33:10] <ColdKeyboard> Pointers or using extern or... ? Any good examples?
[06:38:11] <antto> twnqx how does it sound if it takes 5ms for a function that reads from eeprom over SPI
[06:38:40] <antto> i tried setting the spi clock to 1MHz, and 8MHz - the function still takes 5ms
[06:39:44] <antto> ..it reads 16 to 64 bytes, not more, not less, and in all cases it eats 5ms
[06:52:57] <twnqx> well, caluclate it
[06:53:05] <twnqx> 1µs per bit
[06:53:08] <twnqx> at 1mhz
[06:53:25] <twnqx> 8µs per byte, etc
[06:53:34] <twnqx> the dominating number is neither bytes nor clock...
[06:56:51] <antto> how do i find what takes so long?!
[06:57:35] <antto> i tried inlining the function.. the compiler doesn't think it's needed..
[06:58:31] <antto> could it be the use of a bunch of volatile variables..?
[07:19:15] <twnqx> volatile only means they won't be cached in registers
[07:19:25] <twnqx> i would rather look at your measurement :P
[07:27:45] <antto> i set a pin high right before the function call, and then i set it low right after it
[07:28:15] <antto> then i record the signal as audio..
[07:29:41] <twnqx> too much input capacitance?
[07:30:07] <antto> what do you mean?
[07:30:38] <twnqx> some lowpass on the input of the sound card that makes µs sampling impossible
[07:31:03] <antto> ehm, that's not an issue
[07:31:12] <antto> i record at 88200Hz
[07:31:27] <antto> i see the impulse very clearly
[07:31:32] <antto> 5ms is 5ms
[07:32:28] <antto> in a given condition, the function doesn't have to read from the eeprom, and then the impulse is uber short
[07:33:04] <antto> ..like below 0.1ms
[07:37:36] <twnqx> i'd say your code has a bug, then.
[07:40:06] <antto> twnqx
http://codepad.org/gOepwaba
[07:41:01] <antto> ehm, forgot something, don't read it yet
[07:42:13] <antto> ah, feck
[07:42:42] <twnqx> the first part is trange, basically you go through it, whether you have to wait or not
[07:42:42] <antto> >:(
[07:43:36] <antto> i have enabled debug text output from inside chain_shift()
[07:43:46] * antto ashamed
[07:43:47] <twnqx> ahhh wait, you check the eeprom status, not the spi transmitter statuis
[07:44:15] <antto> hm, do i have a bug in the eeprom reading func itself?
[07:44:15] <twnqx> ah. 5ms of serial port, eh
[07:44:50] <antto> i should have myself a warning when i've enabled the f*ckin debug text output >:/
[07:45:10] <twnqx> heh
[07:45:24] <twnqx> no, i don't thnk so. it will probably be even faster than my asynchronous SPI code :P
[07:45:50] <twnqx> and i use SPI flash, not small eeproms
[07:46:19] <antto> those 5ms go into sending chars (debug text) over usb/ftdi at 19200 baudrate
[07:46:43] <twnqx> :)
[07:46:47] <twnqx> i use a ringbuffer for that
[07:47:06] <antto> you queue it so it doesn't block?
[07:50:50] <twnqx> yeah
[07:51:00] <twnqx> i also run my serial port on 2mbit/s
[07:54:32] <antto> okay.. 0.66ms at 1MHz spi .. gud ;]
[07:55:08] <antto> with 4MHz spi, it should be 0.66/4
[09:52:41] <antto> is it a bad idea to change the spi frequency..?
[09:54:06] <antto> ..this device has external eeprom and a few other things hooked to spi, if it's running at 2MHz - would it be nasty if i suddenly decide to change the spi freq (suppose the eeprom wasn't reading/writing currently)
[10:04:45] <RikusW> afaik you can change it whenever you want
[10:05:11] <RikusW> just don't go too high, the wiring might not be able to handle it
[10:05:36] <antto> i tried the device with spi at 8MHz and it seemed to function as normal
[10:06:16] <antto> but some units may have slightly different chips/eeproms and i'm not sure if higher than 2MHz would always work (2MHz will surely work in all of them)
[10:06:16] <RikusW> long wires and T's might get you into trouble at 8MHz
[10:06:42] <antto> so i'm thinking to make the spi freq setting loadable from internal eeprom at boot
[10:06:50] <RikusW> If speed isn't a concern go for 2, its safer
[10:07:04] <antto> if it doesn't work at higher freq - the user would set it back to 2MHz
[10:07:19] <RikusW> or the AVR itself
[10:07:41] <antto> nah, i won't go 8MHz, i just tried to see if it'll break ;P~
[10:07:45] <antto> i'd go 4MHz
[10:07:50] <RikusW> try reading at higher clocks until it fails
[10:07:53] <antto> or 2MHz if 4 doesn't work
[10:08:00] <RikusW> yep
[10:08:08] <antto> i can't go much higher than 8MHz
[10:08:17] <antto> the cpu runs at 16MHz itself
[10:08:32] <RikusW> some SPI bios flash chips can do 100MHz ! :)
[10:08:39] <antto> O_o
[10:08:45] <twnqx> or even 1,2,4,8 bit in parallel
[10:09:10] <twnqx> and in fact double/quad pumped data lines
[10:09:41] <RikusW> my IC only dat 8 pins DIP
[10:09:45] <RikusW> *had
[10:09:50] <antto> so on boot, i'll set the spi to 2MHz, and then i'll load the setting from internal eeprom - if it was set -> switch the spi to 4MHz
[10:10:02] <twnqx> no prob
[10:10:13] <twnqx> just don't change it in the middle of a transaction :P
[10:10:21] <twnqx> of a single byte, i mean
[10:10:34] <antto> ..of a transaction with the internal eeprom?
[10:10:51] <RikusW> while writing a byte out of spi
[10:11:00] <RikusW> first check that SPI is idle
[10:11:02] <antto> is the internal eeprom affected by the spi clock freq?
[10:11:12] <RikusW> not at all
[10:11:39] <antto> on boot, during initialization - i don't use eeprom yet
[10:11:48] <RikusW> twnqx: can it actually do harm to change the SPI speed will its writing a byte ??....
[10:11:50] <antto> so that's where i plan to do the freq change
[10:12:49] <twnqx> RikusW: i would expect not, as long as it's not quadpumped
[10:13:09] <twnqx> quadpumped would mean pll relocking
[10:42:03] <cyounkins> Hey there... Hoping somebody can help me. After setting the debugwire fuse on my atmega328p, plugging in a programmer (either mkii or jtagice3) appears to stop the clock and it's unable to enter programming mode. Anyone seen that before?
[11:00:38] <cyounkins> was finally able to find the mystical 'disable debugwire and close' selection under the debug menu in atmel stupido.
[11:02:41] <RikusW> indeed hidden away....
[11:03:44] <RikusW> cyounkins: studio will upload the hex automatically via dw when starting a debug session
[11:04:30] <RikusW> cyounkins: and the worst part is that atmel could've easily disabled dw in the programming dialog
[11:04:49] <cyounkins> Is the clock supposed to stop when a debugger is connected and DWEN is set?
[11:05:08] <RikusW> the clock doesn't stop afaik
[11:05:25] <RikusW> but SPI programming is disabled
[11:05:47] <RikusW> just use the debugger to load new fw
[11:05:58] <cyounkins> Right. SPI programming being disabled / abusing the RESET pin would cause any programmer connected which tried to use SPI to freak out with the classic rapidly flashing red light
[11:06:28] <cyounkins> (unless of course you try to switch to an AVRISP)
[11:06:34] <RikusW> I've built a programmer to disable dw automatically
[11:07:13] <RikusW> basically send 0x06 to the reset pin (open drain uart) at avr clock/128
[11:07:35] <RikusW> this will disable dw until the power is cycled
[11:07:50] <RikusW> AS4 did have a commandline utility to disable dw
[11:08:15] <cyounkins> Interesting.
[11:08:42] <RikusW> http://www.ruemohr.org/docs/debugwire.html
[15:07:40] <rue_mohr2> #define Min(X,Y) ((X) < (Y) ? (X) : (Y))
[15:36:55] <antto> Min(++x, --y) oops
[16:10:12] <hotch> I'm starting to use much larger library files. I have USART.h/c now. I am including the .h, but get an error trying to call a fn. Do I need to add the file into my compile cmds? $(COMPILE) -c main.c -o build.o
[16:17:48] <synic> hotch: usually you'd use a makefile or something
[16:18:26] <synic> cus yes, you do need to compile it too, and then link it etc
[16:19:35] <hotch> That is pasted from my Makefile.
[16:19:43] <hotch> I get that synic
[16:19:47] <hotch> Thanks :)
[16:20:29] <hotch> This is my file, how would I change this to link/compile both?
http://pastebin.com/K87bPU2Y
[16:23:23] <twnqx> easiest way: use "the" standard avr Makefile and edit it
[16:24:29] <synic> failing that, it looks like this explains it:
http://www.cs.colby.edu/maxwell/courses/tutorials/maketutor/
[16:24:43] <twnqx> http://siwawi.bauing.uni-kl.de/avr_projects/matrix44/makefile.txt this is a (preedited) one
[17:52:54] <clixxIO> Good morning
[17:54:34] <dxtr> Good evening
[17:55:40] <clixxIO> any projects to show?
[18:04:24] <clixxIO> Hi hackvana
[18:04:29] <braincracker> i have recovered some girl pictures from a cf card, will do?
[18:05:02] <clixxIO> braincracker: I'm only interested if they are the crispy-cream-calendar girls
[18:05:53] <braincracker> no :( only some random teengirls drinking some alcohol
[18:06:01] <clixxIO> actually they are not my favourite
[18:06:03] <braincracker> this is the trend now
[18:06:24] <clixxIO> yes
[18:06:49] <clixxIO> till they get too fat to go out in public
[18:06:57] <braincracker> oh
[18:07:12] <braincracker> and they suicide?
[18:08:00] <clixxIO> not sure
[18:08:20] <clixxIO> never pay attention that long
[18:08:52] <braincracker> poor little good looking teenbitches :(
[18:10:06] <braincracker> if they'd know they will get fat and ugly, they'd suicide right away
[18:11:52] <clixxIO> I got the impression that they just got drunk instead
[18:12:01] <clixxIO> they know..
[18:15:11] <clixxIO> hey, I'm needing to organise an avr project. I want to have a library
[18:15:48] <clixxIO> does anyone know of a good gnu template for an avr library on linux
[18:16:52] <braincracker> what template?
[18:17:10] <braincracker> avr-libc has common functions
[18:17:13] <clixxIO> like a makefile
[18:17:39] <braincracker> hm, never seen a working makefile from atmel yet, maybe somebody can show you
[18:17:59] <clixxIO> I can ask a web search I guess
[18:18:04] <braincracker> sure
[18:18:17] <braincracker> i found one in alternate source (google)
[18:18:53] <braincracker> you already installed avr-gcc ?
[18:18:58] <clixxIO> yes
[18:19:07] <clixxIO> that is all working fine
[18:19:13] <braincracker> now you'd need an example sw that comiles and you can try
[18:19:32] <braincracker> depends on your device type
[18:19:43] <clixxIO> I've got that but I've never made an avr lib
[18:20:20] <clixxIO> hmm.. I guess I need a lib for different device types
[18:20:36] <braincracker> possible
[18:21:06] <braincracker> you are doing huge business with goal of flashing leds?
[18:21:44] <clixxIO> yes, I realise that
[18:22:11] <clixxIO> I have a generator to make the project files :
https://github.com/clixx-io/clixx.io/blob/master/eventframework/clixx_mkproject.py
[18:23:29] <braincracker> :)
[18:23:56] <braincracker> 595 ics?
[18:24:42] <clixxIO> huh ?
[18:24:49] <braincracker> serial port extender
[18:25:03] <clixxIO> don't have
[18:26:26] <clixxIO> oh a 74H595
[18:30:12] <clixxIO> seems I need something like this: ar -cr libsomething.a obj1.o obj2.o obj3.o
[18:30:32] <clixxIO> and this: ranlib libsomething.a
[18:30:59] <clixxIO> to make a library
[18:31:31] <braincracker> cd4094 is a cmos extender too
[18:31:36] <braincracker> slloower
[18:32:07] <braincracker> you have large project?
[18:32:57] <clixxIO> it's a collection of hardware
[18:33:38] <clixxIO> so it will need different classes for different devices
[18:35:30] <braincracker> i should create some library thingy too, it is a chaos without a lib when you have 10 projects using same functions under development
[18:35:52] <Lambda-Aurigae> http://www.procyonengineering.com/embedded/avr/avrlib/ check out how they do this set of libx clixxIO ..
[18:36:00] <Lambda-Aurigae> it's older but lots of good stuff in there.
[18:38:52] <twnqx> braincracker: that's when git and branches come in handy :P
[18:39:12] <clixxIO> thanks Lambda-Aurigae
[18:39:35] <Lambda-Aurigae> I've used procyon avrlib for years.
[18:39:44] <Lambda-Aurigae> and even chatted with the maker a few times.
[18:42:38] <clixxIO> procyon looks like a decent piece of work
[18:46:11] <Lambda-Aurigae> yeah, but he never finished it.
[18:46:16] <Lambda-Aurigae> it was a university project.
[18:47:06] <Lambda-Aurigae> there is also an armlib from the same guys.
[18:47:45] <clixxIO> wow
[18:48:15] <clixxIO> I'm also working with some young people from a university
[18:48:54] <Lambda-Aurigae> I work with young people from elementary and middle school.
[18:48:57] <Lambda-Aurigae> and some from highschool.
[18:49:30] <braincracker> and with nsa guys
[18:49:44] <Lambda-Aurigae> nsa can kiss my ex.
[18:49:49] <braincracker> they help in creating well hidden security holes :)
[18:50:16] <Lambda-Aurigae> they are just the whipping boys for the government anyhow...you don't hear about the real stuff going on,,just what the nsa is doing.
[18:50:57] <clixxIO> I live in a prison-colony. nobody cares what happens here
[18:51:11] <Lambda-Aurigae> australia?
[18:51:12] <braincracker> they catch you when you try to ssh on their server
[18:51:20] <braincracker> and offer freedom and job
[18:51:33] <Lambda-Aurigae> been there, done that, bought the book, read the t-shirt, ate the crocodile.
[18:51:36] <clixxIO> Lambda-Aurigae: such a good guess
[18:51:37] <braincracker> here is how professionals get hired
[18:52:14] <Lambda-Aurigae> but Alice Springs was a fun place to play.
[19:29:49] <clixxIO> The Gold-Coast or Sydney is more fun
[19:30:32] <clixxIO> but my friend hackvana will probably tell you Melbourne is where all the action is
[19:33:35] <Lambda-Aurigae> been to melbourne and sydney and darwin.
[19:33:43] <Lambda-Aurigae> and canberra
[19:33:55] <Lambda-Aurigae> wanted to go to perth but never got the chance.
[19:34:15] <clixxIO> It's very nice over there
[19:34:42] <clixxIO> were you spying on us? (everybody does - haha)
[19:34:52] <Lambda-Aurigae> I spent just over a year at Pine Gap.
[19:35:04] <Lambda-Aurigae> working with a group doing over the horizon radar research.
[19:35:31] <clixxIO> cool
[19:35:35] <Lambda-Aurigae> it was a joint us/aussie spy research facility.
[19:36:07] <clixxIO> yeah well we don't do any spying for our own country here, just other countries
[19:37:17] <Lambda-Aurigae> it was a fun 15 months.
[19:37:29] <clixxIO> sure :
http://ccs.infospace.com/ClickHandler.ashx?ld=20140318&app=1&c=funv14.1&s=funv14&euip=202.154.112.65&pvaid=7ad191bd587d4310ad42b37b53f5d734&fct.uid=22c6a6934f874792889d528f9353e404&en=wR2%2bp8KG8juYhKsai6%2bvkB5K%2fGXwt2i5h7DidANkdoA%3d&du=www.smh.com.au%2fit-pro%2fsecurity-it%2faustralian-outback-station-at...&ru=http%3a%2f%2fwww.smh.com.au%2fit-pro%2fsecurity-it%2faustralian-outback-station-at-forefront-of-us-spying-arsenal-20
[19:37:36] <clixxIO> sorry
[19:38:01] <clixxIO> http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/australian-outback-station-at-forefront-of-us-spying-arsenal-20130726-hv10h.html
[19:38:11] <Lambda-Aurigae> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Gap
[19:38:30] <clixxIO> apparently we are the best spies according to ourselves for other countries
[19:39:27] <clixxIO> forgive me if I don't take my countries national security that seriously
[19:39:54] <clixxIO> but either do the people in the jobs - so what's the difference
[19:42:03] <Lambda-Aurigae> I was military at the time, cross posted to Pine Gap.
[19:42:13] <clixxIO> right
[19:42:52] <clixxIO> Actually, do you know the truth about Australia? it can be verified.
[19:43:03] <Lambda-Aurigae> what truth?
[19:43:27] <Lambda-Aurigae> I still have my aussie license to drive.
[19:43:31] <clixxIO> It wasn't set up as a convict-station, but as a British Navy base for the Pacific and Indian oceans
[19:43:46] <Lambda-Aurigae> oh, that...yeah...
[19:43:53] <clixxIO> the convicts were placed there only to deter the French
[19:44:03] <Lambda-Aurigae> good security.
[19:44:10] <Lambda-Aurigae> surround yourself with a bunch of psycho killers.
[19:44:11] <clixxIO> yeah
[19:44:39] <clixxIO> well it would sound scary if told as a story in europe - and it worked
[19:45:58] <clixxIO> then they tell some variation of it here as it being an independant country - it's not
[19:46:08] <clixxIO> just an outpost
[19:46:36] <Lambda-Aurigae> heck, even the boy scouts of australia still use "God and The Queen" in their oath.
[19:46:52] <clixxIO> they do in Government too
[19:47:16] <clixxIO> the biggest joke is the democracy notion
[19:47:38] <clixxIO> "Elect us and we will fly overseas and consult with world leaders"
[19:47:56] <clixxIO> the second part of the sentence is "and do what they want"
[19:48:24] <clixxIO> because they are sucked into being "International Managers"
[19:48:53] <clixxIO> and that's why they don't run any security bases of their own
[19:49:14] <Lambda-Aurigae> hell, we aren't a democracy here either....even though our government tries to force democracy on everybody else.
[19:49:25] <Lambda-Aurigae> we are, at best, a representative republic.
[19:49:43] <clixxIO> I think the Crimean is becoming a democracy now
[19:49:47] <Lambda-Aurigae> but it's more like a corporate represented republic.
[19:50:10] <clixxIO> it's all the same pretty much
[19:51:00] <clixxIO> but some of the stuff is so funny, it's hard not to comment about it
[19:51:06] <clixxIO> like the Snowden leaks
[19:51:45] <clixxIO> - actually I will stop there -
[19:52:25] <clixxIO> Is there any way in avr-gcc to know if avr-gcc is the compiler?
[19:52:45] <clixxIO> some compiler flag for avr-gcc?
[19:54:08] <clixxIO> like an environment variable that can be used as a compile switch ?
[19:57:48] <Lambda-Aurigae> dunno on that one.
[19:58:07] <Lambda-Aurigae> I'm sure there is.
[20:00:40] <Lambda-Aurigae> you might look at gcc itself rather than avr-gcc.
[20:03:10] <clixxIO> I'd have to look it up. I'm just going to go for a #define PLATFORM_LINUX and #define PLATFORM_AVR for now
[20:03:33] <Lambda-Aurigae> hehe.
[20:03:35] <Lambda-Aurigae> yeah.
[20:03:45] <Lambda-Aurigae> it's available, I'm sure, but most people do it that way.
[20:04:17] <clixxIO> because of the makefile, it's going to be important to pass it in as a #define
[20:06:19] <clixxIO> but now it's starting to work: $ avr-gcc -c -o clixxIO_EventQ.o clixxIO_EventQ.cpp [0 compile errors]
[20:06:46] <clixxIO> ar -cr clixxIO-avr.a clixxIO_EventQ.o [0 errors]
[20:08:34] <clixxIO> hmm - nice when a few things work
[20:10:50] <tzanger> hackvana: got the boards today. top notch as always
[20:17:41] <Lambda-Aurigae> tzanger, but, I thought the notch was supposed to be on the sides!
[20:17:56] <tzanger> heh
[20:45:16] <anton02> would a prebuilt bluetooth module be the easiest protcol and wireless format to communicate with an RC car?
[20:49:20] <myself> a prebuilt r/c transmitter and receiver would..
[20:49:37] <myself> if you wnat something different than that, you'll have to explain your requirements better
[20:54:26] <anton02> myself: I need to solder a microchip to a PCB then add the wireless module to that'
[20:54:44] <anton02> myself: also it will be a PC communicating with the car
[20:56:28] <myself> Oh, data!
[20:56:37] <myself> So, not normal RC car stuff.
[20:57:45] <anton02> myself: yeah, it would still be directions for the car to travel in though being sent
[22:20:36] <clixxIO> compiling with avr-gcc takes no time at all. Compared to the old days
[22:21:29] <clixxIO> I just spent an hour doing a make file, only to find it seems to take less than -.1 second for it to compile
[22:21:51] <clixxIO> < 0.1 sec *
[22:21:53] <braincracker> ohh, your 4 core i7 is faster with 100GB/s L1 cache than a 386 ?
[22:22:02] <tzanger> hey now
[22:22:15] <tzanger> I used to compile the linux kernel on an 80386DX/33 with 8MB of memory
[22:22:20] <tzanger> took a full 4 days
[22:22:21] <braincracker> :)
[22:22:25] <braincracker> hehe
[22:22:27] <braincracker> never tried
[22:22:36] <clixxIO> that's how I'm remembering compiling
[22:22:58] <Casper> tzanger: now it take 15 mins
[22:23:00] <braincracker> ddr3 mem in dual ch goes at 18GB/s
[22:23:02] <braincracker> :(
[22:23:19] <braincracker> pc-133 sd was good at 300MB/s
[22:24:18] <braincracker> a new s1155 cpu's L1 cache is 100GB/s+
[22:24:27] <clixxIO> ok, well the ram is too fast. Maybe I should downgrade
[22:24:46] <braincracker> you get used to slow compiling? :)
[22:25:05] <clixxIO> gives the comfy feeling
[22:25:08] <braincracker> i did a few minutes ago strace konqueror, because it gave segfault while loading a webpage...
[22:25:18] <braincracker> slows it down a bit
[22:26:20] <braincracker> you can slow down things much if you use blocking text output routine
[22:27:13] <clixxIO> It's not SoOoOooo bad, like I could just add more lines of code
[22:27:39] <clixxIO> or that new fangled thing, fork in code
[22:29:10] <clixxIO> I really only just have a skeleton anyway, nothing is really being done
[22:30:56] <clixxIO> the tools of new are really quite impressive
[22:31:53] <tzanger> Casper: 15 minutes? what are you building on? I can build a kernel from a make mrproper in about 3 minutes flat
[22:34:21] <Roklobsta> hrm, i have only worked with the 1280. no looking at a 48. alas no jtag....
[22:34:30] <Roklobsta> stuck with ISP only?
[22:35:50] <Casper> tzanger: maybe too many modules on mine? :D
[22:36:07] <Roklobsta> ah debugwire poop
[22:36:36] <braincracker> btw you can increase optimization level to slow down compiling
[22:37:02] <braincracker> i have a small C file that compiles in a minute
[22:37:16] <braincracker> well. not that small, the asm output is 1MB+
[22:38:43] <clixxIO> I'm really trying to cut down on all the fat where-ever I can
[22:39:05] <clixxIO> don't work for micro$oft [yet]
[22:54:47] <clixxIO> just joking - no plans for that
[22:57:44] <Casper> clixxIO: then if you do then you will only have plans to fat where-ever you can
[22:58:41] <clixxIO> yeah but the system of pay-per-line-of-code makes you not worry where the actual lines of code get inserted
[22:58:45] <Casper> I mean c'mon... why does windows 7 take like 7-8G? it have nothing! it shouln't take more than what... 1-2G?
[22:59:11] <clixxIO> heretic ! 64k
[22:59:24] <clixxIO> ok 640k
[22:59:30] <Casper> and some driver manufacturers should be ashamed
[22:59:38] <Casper> a 130MB ethernet driver?!?!?
[22:59:44] <Casper> compressed at that!
[23:00:12] <clixxIO> well how can you justify a team of 12 people making a 32k file ?
[23:00:21] <DarkSector> xchat -p
[23:00:24] <DarkSector> crap
[23:00:31] <Casper> the linux driver is about that big...
[23:00:36] <Casper> and they provide both
[23:01:27] <clixxIO> yeah but modern management tools count scm commits and '+' entries
[23:01:53] <clixxIO> accounting people don't understand that '-' entries are sometimes of more value
[23:02:58] <clixxIO> and then they test on newer/faster hardware. So everything they do is faster than last year
[23:03:44] <clixxIO> I'm not being cinical about my own profession..
