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[02:42:56] <RootB> Hey AVR
[02:42:56] <RootB> anyone here?
[02:44:00] <OndraSter__> nope
[02:44:07] <RootB> http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/6/66/Arduino_as_ISP_atmega644p.gif
[02:44:10] <RootB> im trying to do this
[02:44:29] <RootB> I don't have a reasonator however..
[02:44:42] <RootB> will it work with just a crystal between 12 and 13?
[02:44:47] <OndraSter__> and two caps
[02:44:55] <RootB> mmm
[02:44:58] <OndraSter__> but if you have not modified fuses on the mega in anyway
[02:44:59] <RootB> do you know whcih value?
[02:45:01] <OndraSter__> you don't need it
[02:45:02] <RootB> oh well
[02:45:03] <OndraSter__> huh
[02:45:12] <OndraSter__> it is in the datasheet (either for the xtal or for mega)
[02:45:18] <OndraSter__> around 18pF?
[02:45:23] <OndraSter__> depends on the freq
[09:43:49] <DanFrederiksen> any size limit to diptrace freeware version? just 300pins 2 layers? stupid eagle limits to 80x100mm board
[09:44:22] <twnqx> strange, my eagle doesn't have such limits :3
[09:44:45] <DanFrederiksen> yours says light?
[09:45:37] <DanFrederiksen> or perhaps an older version before they got greedy
[09:45:55] <twnqx> no, says pro :>
[10:02:38] <DanFrederiksen> gold edition? :)
[10:06:07] <DanFrederiksen> or did you pay for it
[10:07:26] <DanFrederiksen> it's ok they have commercial versions but 1640$ for an amateur piece of software is way too much
[10:07:43] * Thrashbarg just uses Kicad...
[10:08:03] <DanFrederiksen> is that completely free?
[10:08:19] <Thrashbarg> I believe so. I've only seen things to donate to the project
[10:08:21] <Thrashbarg> GPL, etc
[10:08:37] <DanFrederiksen> ok. is it good?
[10:09:04] <Thrashbarg> http://kaput.homeunix.org/~thrashbarg/Z80SBC_board.png <-- well I made that with it
[10:09:07] <Thrashbarg> and it didn't crash
[10:09:36] <DanFrederiksen> ok
[10:09:59] <twnqx> nah, i bought it
[10:10:17] <DanFrederiksen> twnqx, full version?
[10:10:22] <twnqx> no autorouter
[10:10:28] <DanFrederiksen> ok
[10:10:36] <twnqx> i didn't like it
[10:10:56] <twnqx> never produced results that were satisfying ;)
[10:10:58] <DanFrederiksen> most don't like autorouters
[10:11:36] <DanFrederiksen> I like it ok with a few tweaks. ultimately it's not something that should be done manually
[10:11:47] <twnqx> Thrashbarg: wow, z80 in 2014? :)
[10:11:49] <DanFrederiksen> it's an obivous computer task
[10:12:01] <twnqx> the results are never visually pleasing
[10:12:06] <twnqx> which is important for me :P
[10:12:10] <DanFrederiksen> :)
[10:12:11] <Thrashbarg> twnqx: yes... there are a few people who wanted a Z80 kit computer so I designed one
[10:12:15] <twnqx> (more important than time spent)
[10:12:29] <Thrashbarg> a few people I know
[10:13:22] <twnqx> does it run CP/M? :>
[10:14:03] <Thrashbarg> twnqx: of course
[10:14:17] <Thrashbarg> trying to get CP/M plus running but it's a god damn pain
[10:14:18] <Thrashbarg> 2.2 is easy
[10:15:03] <twnqx> with video out, or only serial?
[10:15:10] <Thrashbarg> composite 80 column video
[10:15:15] <twnqx> cool
[10:15:17] <Thrashbarg> off the atmega
[10:15:24] <Thrashbarg> and serial from the atmega too
[10:15:26] <twnqx> haven't seen a CP/M since i sold my c128d
[10:15:32] <Thrashbarg> dang
[10:15:41] <twnqx> that must have been... 1992
[10:15:59] <Thrashbarg> C128D's are valuable now ._.
[10:16:20] <Thrashbarg> I got one off a guy who said someone offered him AU$800 for one... it was a bit of a fluke but still
[10:16:35] <Thrashbarg> he had a few
[10:17:07] <twnqx> 30€ on ebay here
[10:17:19] <Thrashbarg> buy it now or auction
[10:17:47] <twnqx> auction
[10:18:07] <Thrashbarg> well, there's your chance
[10:18:12] <twnqx> 500€ buy now O_O
[10:18:16] <Thrashbarg> yea....
[10:20:24] <DanFrederiksen> I talked eagle into being more cooperative :)
[10:22:59] <DanFrederiksen> they really should make the free versions limitless, just not for commercial use. if I couldn't have patched eagle I would have gone to different software. likely diptrace
[10:23:05] <Thrashbarg> hmm 2:35am.... sleep dammit
[10:23:23] <DanFrederiksen> japan?
[10:23:27] <Thrashbarg> Australia
[10:23:50] <DanFrederiksen> ah, you probably have reverse summer time or such
[10:24:10] <DanFrederiksen> and half hour offset.. weird
[10:24:46] <DanFrederiksen> sydney?
[10:25:37] <Thrashbarg> Adelaide
[10:26:06] <Thrashbarg> we had a thing in the early 1900's apparently... half the population wanted a +9:00 time, the other half wanted +10:00 to match the eastern states
[10:26:15] <Thrashbarg> so they came to a compromise of +9:30
[10:26:18] <Thrashbarg> and no one was happy
[10:27:00] <DanFrederiksen> :)
[10:27:16] <twnqx> DanFrederiksen: be aware that you can't send anyone schematics from the cracked eagles ;)
[10:27:26] <twnqx> so for production you'll need a gerber export
[10:27:39] <twnqx> not that this would be a problem in the first place
[10:28:10] <DanFrederiksen> twnqx, why not?
[10:28:50] <twnqx> because there are digital signatures involved
[10:29:19] <DanFrederiksen> Thrashbarg, central vic is gold country. clever man with a large metal detector could find stuff
[10:29:36] <DanFrederiksen> twnqx, you really think the chinese board houses care about that?
[10:29:41] <DanFrederiksen> assuming any of it is true
[10:30:06] <twnqx> i saw it myself with 4.x
[10:32:19] <DanFrederiksen> looking in the files, there is no apparent signature
[10:32:28] <DanFrederiksen> it's human readable ascii
[10:32:36] <twnqx> right, with 6.x they switched to xml
[10:33:26] <DanFrederiksen> the gerber I'm looking at was one I did in 2011. it's not xml
[10:33:33] <twnqx> like i said
[10:33:36] <twnqx> original eagle files
[10:34:13] <DanFrederiksen> but that's not what you send to board houses though
[10:34:21] <twnqx> gerber would be a feasible workaround
[10:34:27] <twnqx> well, the chinese ones
[10:34:29] <DanFrederiksen> it's not a workaround
[10:34:45] <DanFrederiksen> eagle can export gerber. and that's how you always do it
[10:34:47] <DanFrederiksen> afaik
[10:36:36] <JFK911> some services will input eagle board files
[10:37:03] <DanFrederiksen> maybe. but gerber seems universal
[10:37:07] <JFK911> twnqx: There's a "fixer" for eagle files with blacklisted serial numbers.
[10:37:10] <twnqx> i used european boardhouses that worked on eagle, yes
[10:37:19] <DanFrederiksen> even though it's hardly a great format. should be a single file and binary. not a mess of files
[11:44:38] <jacekowski> eagle can generate gerber files
[11:45:48] <jacekowski> DanFrederiksen: binary formats are bad for interchangeablity
[11:46:53] <jacekowski> it could be just set of zipped files
[12:09:09] <avrdude> i'm trying to get my atmega3290 talking with my computer, i'm using an usart->usb bridge, and ive connected everything as it should be, but im getting nothing. is anyone familiar with this?
[12:09:39] <avrdude> i'm assuming i should connect the atmegas TX to the bridges RX, and vice versa
[12:10:06] <avrdude> and also ground
[12:10:45] <myself> Yeah-but.
[12:11:01] <myself> Sometimes people mislabel the tx and rx, it's apprently not a universally understood concept.
[12:11:27] <myself> It's probably harmless to swap 'em, and you can make it certainly harmless if you put like a 1k resistor in series to limit the current just in case.
[12:15:12] <avrdude> hmm
[12:15:29] <avrdude> that didnt help, but i got a null-character when i switched off the mcu
[12:15:30] <avrdude> weird
[12:18:55] <myself> that's just noise that the uart thought looked like startbits
[12:19:38] <myself> if you wire a loopback across tx/rx of your bridge chip, do you see your own characters echoed back into your terminal software?
[12:24:41] <DanFrederiksen> any of you tried using an avr for canbus? easy enough to code?
[12:32:21] <avrdude> myself: ill try that
[12:32:39] <avrdude> the RX led lights up everytime i send a char from my mcu atleast
[12:32:49] <avrdude> on the bridge dongle
[12:33:41] <myself> ahh, the only guy I know who'se done avr canbus stuff isn't on irc right now, but check out
http://canb.us for his project
[12:34:27] <avrdude> loopback also works
[12:37:50] <myself> neat, okay, now let's try to establish why you're confident the AVR is sending characters in the first place
[12:38:17] <myself> my next hunch is clock speed or dividers
[12:38:56] <myself> can you program the AVR to send a constant string of UUUUUUU and then measure the frequency or period of the signal? (It's 01010101 and thus useful..)
[12:40:15] <jacekowski> i've done can on AVR
[12:40:34] <jacekowski> but canbus has not a lot to do with uart
[12:40:44] <myself> canbus was DanFrederiksen
[12:40:57] <jacekowski> DanFrederiksen: i would say very easy
[12:41:41] <jacekowski> DanFrederiksen: i've used J1939 protocol on CAN so that was quite simple protocol as well
[12:53:46] <avrdude> myself: it suddenly just started working
[12:54:11] <avrdude> i just asked the avr to loopback whatever i sent it, so i tried with a single char first
[12:54:36] <myself> avrdude: heisenbug!
[12:54:39] <avrdude> didnt work, so i just mashed the keyboard and sent "adfkjlahwlekfh", which, to my surprise, came back
[12:55:00] <avrdude> idk what was wrong :x
[12:56:04] <myself> the first character is almost guaranteed to be hosed up because the receiving uart's shift register is stupid and eats a few bits off the front
[12:56:23] <avrdude> also
[12:56:32] <avrdude> im developing on an STK500 board
[12:56:54] <avrdude> which im powering with a standard 9V battery :p
[12:57:12] <avrdude> the board voltage started out at 5V half an hour ago, its now at 4.3 lol
[12:57:48] <avrdude> i noticed the power-led was a little weaker than normal..
[12:57:57] <myself> heh, 9v is a poor choice unless you're made of money
[12:58:03] <myself> in which case, hey good friend!
[12:58:10] <myself> can you just USB it?
[12:58:20] <avrdude> i honestly couldnt find another power source
[12:58:42] <avrdude> i cant find any 12V adapters, and the only way to power the board is with a 5.5mm plug it seems
[12:58:45] <myself> you usb-uart bridge board probably exposes Vbus somewhere
[12:58:56] <myself> jumper it in to Vcc on the target
[12:59:05] <myself> (assuming target vcc is 5v)
[12:59:31] <avrdude> i guess i could do that
[13:46:40] <bss36504> Anybody know much about FPGAs on here?
[13:50:59] <bss36504> Ok, I'll just ask. Sorry it's so open ended, I just dont know enough about designing FPGA systems. If I wanted to have, say, 4K bytes worth of "register" space, essentially a small memory array, inside an FPGA, how many gates should the FPGA have in order to have "plenty" of space left over for other logic? I know that "plenty" is pretty arbitrary, but I dont have any sizing info on that part of the design.
[13:52:04] <bss36504> I dont even know enough about fitting to know if 4K is way to big or trivially small.
[13:52:41] <myself> Are there any FPGA-based projects with channels on freenode?
[13:53:30] <bss36504> no idea, I just usually hang out in here so I figured Id toss it out there. People are generally open to answering non-avr questions.
[13:53:55] <myself> I'm just thinking you'd likely get more useful answers from a better venue
[13:54:03] <bss36504> probably :P
[14:08:16] <jacekowski> bss36504: well, normally you would have external memory for that stuff
[14:08:20] <jacekowski> but 4k is not a lot
[14:23:38] <bss36504> jacekowski: Well the reason is I want to have it inside the FPGA is so that I can implement an SDRAM interface (in the FPGA) and memory map the FPGA into an xmega
[15:05:56] <Casper> http://www.flickr.com/photos/93694432@N04/sets/72157641229267593/ <=== yeah that's a chinese laptop psu... maraccas sounding when you shake it
[15:24:29] <synic> freerange capacitors for everyone!
[15:27:13] <myself> I've heard of organic capacitors but this is ridiculous!
[15:28:46] <bss36504> Why doesn't Atmel's $600 AVR ONE! support the SAM devices? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.
[16:01:38] <Jordan_U> I'm trying to determine how difficult it will be to use a NHD-2.7-12864UCY3 OLED graphical display before I buy it, and I'm currently looking at the "app notes" found here:
http://www.newhavendisplay.com/exprog_page.html but the examples seem incomplete. For example,
http://www.newhavendisplay.com/app_notes/OLED_2_7_12864.txt doesn't state what toolchain is expected to be used (hopefully it will work with avr-gcc) and appears to use ...
[16:01:44] <Jordan_U> ... macros/functions like OLED_uDelay(100); which are not defined in that file. Can anyone help me make sense of this, or does anyone know of better documentation / a better solution for driving this display?
[16:29:37] <hjohnson> Jordan_U: do you have the actual datasheet for the display?
[16:30:44] <hjohnson> Jordan_U: also how are you interfacing with it?
[16:31:28] <hjohnson> looks pretty similar to LCD displays... Just use their code as a guide, write your own by reading the datasheet
[16:40:11] <OndraSter__> Jordan_U, tbh the harder part is the hardware itself :P
[16:40:22] <OndraSter__> if you get full datasheet with the communication you are done
[16:40:29] <OndraSter__> you can run Crysis on it then :D
[16:40:56] <hjohnson> lol
[16:41:10] <hjohnson> i'm just having a bitch writing my readline serial command
[16:41:43] <hjohnson> but it's a bit more hiellatious than normal, since it's blocking, and has to deal with either 16750 style UARTs, or the internal USARTs and present a consistent interface :P
[16:42:14] <OndraSter__> eh
[16:42:23] <OndraSter__> are you making your own CPU?! :D
[16:42:31] <hjohnson> naw, xmega
[16:42:34] <Jordan_U> hjohnson: The datasheet is here:
http://www.newhavendisplay.com/specs/NHD-2.7-12864UCY3.pdf I was really hoping to be able to use some sort of library rather than doing everything from scratch, but I realise that may not be an option.
[16:42:41] <OndraSter__> why the 16750 USART then?
[16:42:48] <OndraSter__> it is not like xmega lacks serial
[16:42:49] <hjohnson> OndraSter__: I need 12 UARTs
[16:42:52] <OndraSter__> oh
[16:42:54] <OndraSter__> bigger xmega? :D
[16:42:57] <OndraSter__> with 6 digital ports
[16:43:12] <OndraSter__> since each digital port has two (maybe except a few)
[16:43:13] <hjohnson> plus the other USARTs are used for I2C, SPI, and a few other bits
[16:43:18] <OndraSter__> huh
[16:43:23] <OndraSter__> what the hell are you making :D
[16:43:25] <hjohnson> the 128A1u I'm using has 8 USARTs
[16:43:32] <hjohnson> http://gerblook.org/pcb/SGvzRMHzpVymDwEhMWe78o#front
[16:43:33] <hjohnson> that
[16:43:34] <hjohnson> :)
[16:43:44] <hjohnson> NMEA multiplexer/telemetry/data management system for my boat
[16:43:49] <OndraSter__> oh
[16:45:03] <PoppaVic> heh.. I'd use N smaller chips all talking to a regular CPU, but - I'm like that.
[16:45:15] <OndraSter__> xmega is very powerful
[16:45:19] <hjohnson> so wifi module takes 1 serial, GPS 2 (it has two interfaces), Iridium modem 1, GPRS modem 1, 4x NMEA 183 I/O, 1x NMEA In (For AIS), compass 1, RS232
[16:45:21] <OndraSter__> it can handle loads of stuff just fine
[16:45:50] <OndraSter__> also don't forget USB, hjohnson ! :D
[16:45:52] <hjohnson> OndraSter__: yeah, this is doing lots of stuff.. also running GUI and other stuff
[16:46:02] <hjohnson> OndraSter__: yeah, I've got that in there, though it's probably not going to be implemented for a while
[16:46:04] <OndraSter__> writing custom GUI (+ OS?) or just simple GUI?
[16:46:22] <hjohnson> OndraSter__: well, using FreeRTOS
[16:46:26] <OndraSter__> ah
[16:47:08] <hjohnson> also has 128KB of RAM, though at first at least, I will only use the 64k due to the GCC limitation
[16:47:19] <OndraSter__> aye
[16:47:24] <OndraSter__> gcc cannot use the RAMPD
[16:47:42] <OndraSter__> kind of bummer
[16:47:44] <OndraSter__> I presume SRAM?
[16:48:31] <hjohnson> yeah
[16:48:42] <OndraSter__> I want to try the 4-port SDRAM
[16:48:47] <OndraSter__> but it is 4 or 8bit only..
[16:48:48] <hjohnson> well, more correctly, sizeof(pointer) == 2
[16:48:49] <OndraSter__> data
[16:49:05] <hjohnson> OndraSter__: well, on the A1U versions, they've finally implemented the 4port mode
[16:49:11] <hjohnson> (that's what I"m using, so there's no need for ALE)
[16:49:27] <OndraSter__> 4port mode has been in all A1's I think, but not for SDRAMs... *I think*
[16:49:41] <hjohnson> OndraSter__: naw, it wasn't in the non-U ones
[16:49:47] <OndraSter__> ah
[16:49:51] <OndraSter__> did not use the non-U
[16:49:53] <hjohnson> they lacked the EBIOUT register that lets you put the 4th port on port E/F
[16:49:58] <OndraSter__> ah
[16:50:05] <OndraSter__> yeah I know about that reg, had to write to atmel about it
[16:50:09] <OndraSter__> wasn't sure about something
[16:50:15] <hjohnson> ahh
[16:50:26] <hjohnson> I'll actually probably put my LCD up in high-mem
[16:50:27] <OndraSter__> some confusing doc, they changed it rev later I think :D
[16:50:42] <hjohnson> since I only have two addresses to write to, and for dumping the frame buffer I'll probably do via DMA
[16:51:23] <hjohnson> i'm doing as much DMA as I can for writing to/from the FIFOs on the 16550s
[16:51:31] <OndraSter__> makes sense
[16:51:34] <OndraSter__> that's why it is there
[16:52:23] <hjohnson> yep
[16:52:30] <OndraSter__> I am tempted to write some OS for (x)mega that is modular like normal "desktop OS" - loadable (or at least compilable-in?) drivers (just as any other embedded OS), but use some lua-ish scripting for the apps. So they can be loaded during runtime
[16:52:37] <OndraSter__> since there is no execute from RAM :P
[16:53:06] <hjohnson> OndraSter__: eh, FreeRTOS is pretty decent
[16:53:10] <OndraSter__> I know
[16:53:18] <OndraSter__> but the fake execute from RAM thingy...
[16:53:32] <hjohnson> though it turns into a big statically linked binary
[16:55:40] <hjohnson> so you can always tell when a TV production/documentary is Canadian...
[16:55:44] <hjohnson> we call power lines "Hydro Lines"
[16:59:44] <hjohnson> gah, I hate netgear switches
[16:59:54] <hjohnson> I"m soo looking forward to swapping the last of them out for Cisco
[17:02:35] <myself> I struggle to imagine a situation in which both would be options; their markets don't usually overlap much, do they?
[17:08:04] <hjohnson> myself: well, i took over running a campus network for a non-profit that I work with a lot
[17:08:14] <hjohnson> (it interconnects about 25 buildings)
[17:08:19] <hjohnson> anyhow, it was one big broadcast domain
[17:08:37] <hjohnson> and they were wondering why it didn't work very well... they had used pretty decent netgears (the web managed smartswitches)
[17:09:07] <hjohnson> anyhow, I broke the network up, applied proper QoS etc... and am slowly replacing all the netgear with (used) cisco gear
[17:09:25] <hjohnson> (the wonderful thing about cisco is their support policies are such that the market has lots of really good, very reaosnably priced used gear)
[17:10:25] <myself> yeah, I hear similar things about the HP Procurve, they're warranted forever and well supported, in addition to being virtually bulletproof in the first place
[17:10:44] <hjohnson> i dunno, not such a fan of Procurve or at least the modern stuff
[17:11:22] <myself> understood; loyalty takes years to earn
[17:14:56] <PoppaVic> myself: it's always fun to tell an employer that - watch their face..
[17:15:05] <myself> bwahaha
[17:15:36] <myself> Ask "Last time someone didn't work out, how much notice did they get before termination?"
[17:16:41] <PoppaVic> I got another job perking - if they call, I'll fly.. Giving current employer about the same time-span I get when I get told to stay & work a double or they changed the schedule
[17:17:00] * hjohnson needs to find a job. :(
[17:17:19] <PoppaVic> I've heard the owners like to say "if * doesn't like it here, they can leave." - Cool.
