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[00:13:08] <w|zzy> abcminiuser: Did you know Lifx are in virgin megastores already? Before they have been delivered to Australian KickStarter Backers!
[00:19:41] <abcminiuser> They're being shipped everywhere
[00:22:22] <w|zzy> No.. Mid december they are in virgin megastores.
[00:22:29] <w|zzy> In UAE.
[00:22:56] <w|zzy> It probably doesn't matter to most people... I just think its a bit of a dick move to release them to stores before meeting your kickstarter commitments
[00:30:46] <abcminiuser> Not sure of the internals
[00:34:58] <w|zzy> Im not having a go at you. Just letting you know to be careful of the bosses.. They don't seem, like most bosses, to have scruples.
[07:22:56] <Duality> my atmega328p is set to 16mhz but when i try to connect over isp it says isp sck is set to 0
[07:23:10] <Duality> it's not connected with a 16mhz crystal
[07:24:50] * jadew just got a DS1104Z
[07:25:01] <jadew> looks awesome at the first sight, it's calibrating now tho
[08:01:20] <_abc_> Hello. Does anyone know if the original stk500 software autobauds?
[08:01:47] <_abc_> I am looking at the firmware of a stk500 clone and it autobauds. I am under the impression the original always works at one speed. True?
[08:04:58] <RikusW> yes
[08:05:04] <RikusW> no autobaud on the original
[08:05:35] <RikusW> on USB baud is irrelevant
[08:06:01] <TLoFP> do interupts not get serviced in an ISR?
[08:10:09] <_abc_> RikusW: indeed but the damn usb to serial converter will output whatever it is told to and the chip talking to it on serial must match it
[08:10:34] <_abc_> TLoFP: in isr on avr and mega avr the other interrupts are blocked
[08:10:44] <_abc_> TLoFP: they are not serviced until yours is done afaik
[08:10:46] <RikusW> hmm yes
[08:11:02] <RikusW> I meant in the case of of onchip CDC
[08:11:07] <RikusW> like usb avr
[08:11:25] <_abc_> This is unlike 8051 where there are two priority sets for interrupts and the low pri set can be interrupted by an interrupt in the high pri set
[08:35:55] <jadew> TLoFP, on xmega you have 3 interrupt levels and on all of them you can enable interrupts while inside an ISR
[08:36:16] <jadew> since interrupts on that level or lower get disabled before the ISR is called
[08:36:35] <jadew> however, that can lead to trouble
[08:36:50] <PoppaVic> do the least required
[10:01:56] <Duality> can I store structs in pgmspace ?
[10:02:41] <Epsilon-Auriga> you can store anything in pgmspace...it's all a matter of how easily accessed you need them to be.
[10:03:33] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__avr__pgmspace.html
[10:05:12] <Epsilon-Auriga> and, unless your code is executing from the bootloader section of flash, it won't be able to write to pgmspace, only read.
[10:42:48] <The_Coolest> I've got a question: If I have enabled the pull up of a pin on the AVR, the pin is connected to a 1K resistor and the resistor is connected to ground
[10:43:12] <The_Coolest> what will I get on PINx?
[10:45:32] <The_Coolest> will the external resistor act as a resistor divider with the internal one or will it work as a sort of pull down?
[10:47:24] <N2TOH> the internal pullup is a mosfet not an actual resistor
[10:47:44] <The_Coolest> hmm
[10:49:30] <The_Coolest> N2TOH I'm asking because I want to be able to pull a pin low with a push button to enable the bootloader, but I also want to protect the pin against shorting it to ground when/if it's configured as output
[10:52:23] <The_Coolest> N2TOH any suggestions?
[10:52:34] <The_Coolest> or Epsilon-Auriga :D
[10:54:03] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://cq.cx/interface.pl
[10:54:11] <Epsilon-Auriga> The_Coolest: read...lots of info there.
[10:56:46] <N2TOH> yeah you can do that just be sure to limit the current within the AVR specs
[10:58:02] <The_Coolest> N2TOH the question is will it be pulled down and will the pin read 0 when I push the button
[10:58:20] <The_Coolest> Epsilon-Auriga I don't see a config like what I need
[10:59:15] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://cq.cx/interface.pl#2 just invert it!
[10:59:30] <Epsilon-Auriga> flip R2 and SW1 around.
[10:59:48] <Epsilon-Auriga> might want to drop R1 down to 100K or some such too I would think.
[10:59:56] <The_Coolest> I don't want a constant pullup
[11:00:23] <Epsilon-Auriga> or make both resistors something like 10K
[11:00:52] <The_Coolest> I'm really limited to a single resistor due to pcb size constraints
[11:01:05] <Epsilon-Auriga> there is info in there on how it works and what to do with the resistors.
[11:01:16] <Epsilon-Auriga> did you even bother to READ that section?
[11:01:24] <The_Coolest> I'm reading now
[11:01:34] <Epsilon-Auriga> not just look at the pretty pictures.
[11:02:27] <Epsilon-Auriga> or you could just use a 10K pullup and be done with it.
[11:02:45] <Epsilon-Auriga> unless you are really worried about current draw and noise then you need to experiment/do the math and all that.
[11:05:52] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.w9xt.com/page_microdesign_pt6_switch_inputs.html
[11:06:06] <Epsilon-Auriga> another good source of information that actually shows how to do the math
[11:08:14] <The_Coolest> thanks
[11:08:53] <The_Coolest> So if the pin's pullup is a mosfet then a resistor to ground will not pull the pin low
[11:09:06] <The_Coolest> In my case, the way I described
[11:09:19] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.w9xt.com/page_microdesign_toc.html
[11:09:29] <Epsilon-Auriga> don't use the internal pullup
[11:10:49] <The_Coolest> Tthat's the thing, I don't want to use an external pull-up/down
[11:11:04] <blathijs> The_Coolest: I think the pin will be pulled low. I've used a similar setup with an external small resistor to ground and that worked as expected of a voltage divider. I don't think I actually checked the voltage, though.
[11:11:53] <The_Coolest> i guess I should just try it :\
[11:12:29] <blathijs> Epsilon-Auriga: Great link, btw
[11:13:11] <Epsilon-Auriga> those were in the top 5 of a google search for "microcontroller interfacing"
[11:13:41] <Epsilon-Auriga> I've seen the first one before and use it for teaching kids how to work with microcontrollers...the last one has a lot more info that I'll probably print out and use as well.
[11:14:44] <Epsilon-Auriga> I just find it interesting that a good portion of the questions asked here could be asked of google as well but nobody seems to want to do that.
[11:15:44] <N2TOH> Google does not have a pulse
[11:16:09] <blathijs> Epsilon-Auriga: I guess it's also because there is a lot of information available, and as a novice user it's hard to distinguish the good ones from the bad ones, or to predict if a resource actually applies to your situation
[11:16:12] <Epsilon-Auriga> N2TOH: same could be argued for some people on irc.
[11:16:34] <N2TOH> MUHAHAHAHA!
[11:17:18] <N2TOH> good point, blathijs
[11:17:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> guess I'm old fashioned...as a beginner in electronics I had the library and radio shack...as a beginner in microcontrollers I had the manufacturer documents and a few web pages out there but no interactive irc.
[11:17:49] * N2TOH did the same
[11:17:57] <N2TOH> but the internet sucked back then too
[11:18:06] <Epsilon-Auriga> yup.
[11:18:38] <N2TOH> I'll give you a hint people were still using windows 3.11
[11:19:05] <Epsilon-Auriga> what "were"??
[11:19:08] <Epsilon-Auriga> they still are.
[11:19:36] <Epsilon-Auriga> I have a client who threw a fit because I didn't have a xerox printer driver for wfw3.11 less than a year ago.
[11:19:45] <N2TOH> ha ha very funny, I know yet there seemed to be a lot less clue factor back then
[11:20:05] <Epsilon-Auriga> I only got started in microcontrollers in 2001.
[11:20:25] <Epsilon-Auriga> and heavily into them about 2005 or so.
[11:20:25] <N2TOH> around 94/95 for me
[11:20:49] <Epsilon-Auriga> in 94/95 I was still using an old c-64 as my "microcontroller" for interfacing to the world.
[11:21:01] <N2TOH> in reference to the print driver, tell them it's extra and they have to purchate it as an add on
[11:21:14] <Epsilon-Auriga> yeah,,,about 200K USD too.
[11:21:20] <N2TOH> :)
[11:21:34] <Epsilon-Auriga> that's what xerox charges for custom driver development.
[11:35:16] <The_Coolest> blathijs it seems to work. getting a reading of 118mV on the pin
[12:00:13] <megal0maniac_afk> Epsilon-Auriga: Wow, didn't know you could do that
[12:00:21] <megal0maniac_afk> But where there's a $, there's a way
[12:00:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> megal0maniac_afk: yeah, for a price they will custom build you a printer too..
[12:02:18] <Epsilon-Auriga> to get a software change on an existing model we have to put forth a business case showing how much money we will lose if we don't get the change....then have to fight tooth and nail to get it even if it does fit the financial requirements.
[12:02:38] <Epsilon-Auriga> unless the customer wants to pay for the change, in which case they will be happy to jump right on it.
[12:03:14] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm glad I'm just a lowly worker bee :)
[12:03:18] <Epsilon-Auriga> glub....I could go to work now.
[12:03:23] <Epsilon-Auriga> but don't feel like it.
[12:03:30] <Epsilon-Auriga> got my frozen pipes problem fixed.
[12:03:41] <Epsilon-Auriga> thawed and section of pipe replaced.
[12:03:42] <megal0maniac_afk> Peeing on them doesn't work
[12:03:55] <Epsilon-Auriga> not when they are on the ceiling of a crawlspace.
[12:04:00] <Epsilon-Auriga> you just end up peeing on yourself.
[12:04:18] <megal0maniac_afk> Unless you invite a lot of friends over for a lot of drinks. And the pipe is more conveniently placed. Then maybe
[12:04:47] <Epsilon-Auriga> ended up getting a mouth full of fiberglass insulation in the process too.
[12:04:50] <carabia> oh hello the googloid assembly is here
[12:05:10] <megal0maniac_afk> Epsilon-Auriga: :(
[12:05:26] <Epsilon-Auriga> complete with mouse droppings....was not a fun experience.
[12:05:48] <carabia> google didn't tell you how to avoid these?
[12:06:26] <megal0maniac_afk> carabia: Google has no pulse
[12:06:36] <megal0maniac_afk> It doesn't know about unforseen problems
[12:06:57] <Epsilon-Auriga> of course it does!
[12:07:11] <megal0maniac_afk> Not if _you_ don't forsee them
[12:07:17] <carabia> googloids find a way
[12:17:42] <carabia> google should have also told you how the word is spelled 'foresee'
[12:18:19] <megal0maniac_afk> I could have, would have, didn't
[12:18:37] <carabia> wtf. forsee is uk? uk is homo anyway
[12:18:54] <carabia> i actually had to google this myself
[12:18:56] <megal0maniac_afk> Colour.
[12:19:15] <carabia> after i made a statement, which is always handy
[12:19:21] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm in South Africa. We use real English here. Schooled.
[12:19:23] <carabia> brits are a bunch of faggots
[12:20:13] <carabia> too bad the germans didn't have nukes back in the second world war i would've had them rather shoot nukes than V2's to london
[12:20:58] <carabia> or, the V2 would have been quite a handy way to carry them over the canal
[12:21:47] <carabia> aaaand back to soldering :D
[12:25:17] <Epsilon-Auriga> they were developing nukes.
[12:25:43] <Epsilon-Auriga> and the V2 was a stage in producing a nuke missile for the germans....as well as the USA as we stole their designs and scientists.
[13:48:17] <aep_> crap, uart is so slow that usb (lufa) times out
[13:48:55] <bss36504> wow
[13:49:00] <bss36504> bummer
[13:49:41] <bss36504> the downside to LUFA being polled vs interrupt driven is this sort of problem here.
[13:50:13] <bss36504> make a RTI that runs the LUFA code maybe?
[13:50:29] <bss36504> You kind of need a mini-scheduler to keep everything happy.
[13:53:57] <aep_> yeah
[13:54:06] <aep_> i was wondering if i can just use a really fast timer interrupt
[13:54:51] <aep_> otoh, its kindof the uarts fault for not being async
[13:58:16] <bss36504> the issue is, most LUFA applications revolve around the infinite while loop in main that checks up on stuff as fast as possible. What are you trying to UART here? Are you doing a USB-Serial converter or something? or is the UART talking to something else?
[13:59:17] <aep> just for debugging
[13:59:24] <tzanger> aep: aren't you checking for data available and only acting on the already-received date?
[13:59:24] <aep> lufa doesnt work for me, so i need to figure out why
[13:59:27] <tzanger> data rather
[13:59:34] <aep> so fat i've been using LEDs for debugging, but its pretty bad
[13:59:43] <aep> _sending_ is so slow
[13:59:58] <bss36504> maybe grab a little character LCD and Peter Fleury's library.
[14:00:03] <aep> because it actually waits for each bit to be set high for the time it needs to be high
[14:00:04] <catphish> i'm happy, i just managed to implement I2C and an interface to the MPU6050
[14:00:05] <bss36504> What about LUFA isnt working?
[14:00:27] <aep> the audio example
[14:00:40] <aep> Endpoint_IsReadWriteAllowed is always true
[14:00:44] <aep> i.e. the buffer never fills
[14:00:53] <aep> except on windows 8
[14:01:03] <aep> but not with linux or windows 7
[14:01:16] <tzanger> aep: why? if the transmit holding reg is empty, put a char in it (or as may as will fit until it says there's no more) then wait for the interrupt or poll for it
[14:01:30] <bss36504> ooh. never personally played with that demo. But the fact that it works somewhere and not another place is weird.
[14:02:04] <aep> tzanger: uh. i'm using lufas send functions and they take really long
[14:02:33] <Ni1njaneer> Hi bss! Happy new year!
[14:02:57] <bss36504> hi Ni1njaneer! Happy new year to you too! Hope your holiday went well
[14:03:06] <bss36504> oh, and whats up with your nickname?
[14:03:15] <tzanger> aep: hm
[14:03:24] <aep> i'll check why
[14:03:33] <aep> somehow i think this should be async
[14:03:40] <N1njaneer> Oops, fixed.
[14:03:46] <bss36504> N1njaneer: much better
[14:03:47] <N1njaneer> It just all blurs together anyway :)
[14:03:57] <N1njaneer> I did have some relaxing holidays, yes :)
[14:03:58] <aep> since the dedicated uart controller should do the "hold line up x miliseonds" ting
[14:04:12] <bss36504> I kept wanting to say "NiLnjaneer". didnt sound as nice.
[14:04:54] <N1njaneer> I still need to work on finishing off my network stack. Need to add IGMP support to it, as I just discovered I need to be able to support multicast for some new stuff I want to use it for. :)
[14:06:39] <bss36504> N1njaneer: I've been writing a test API for work lately. About time we unified our coding a bit. All Java, plus some custom c shared libs. Fully OOP design. I'm quite pleased. Glad to hear the stack is coming along. I've been so swamped with embedded stuff for work and school (only one more semester though, woot) that I don't have time to tinker on the side.
[15:42:27] <aep> apparantly the at90usb162 is just ridiculously underpowered
[15:42:55] <aep> it can't keep up with usb at 11Khz
[15:51:38] <aep> only on linux tho
[15:56:00] <aep> nah breaks down on windows too as soon as i do one more thing
[15:56:44] <aep> 12Mhz / 11 Khz = 1090 instructions. i can't believe a simple "copy 16 bit over usb" is that expensive
[16:19:54] <aep> werf. my avr32 started working magically
[16:20:03] <aep> right when i wanted to set fire to my avr8
[16:20:51] <bss36504> interesting. I've had problems with the at90162 as well. switched to the Atmega32U2 (same pinout) and things worked great.
[16:20:52] <bss36504> '
[16:21:40] <bss36504> I'm curious though, what could be the reason behind that? IIRC, the 32U2 is almost a clone of the 162, except for some memory upgrades.
[16:22:02] <aep> pretty sure my issue is usb memory
[16:22:12] <aep> 32byte just isnt enough cache
[16:22:26] <aep> or maybe the clock is garbage. i dunno
[16:22:47] <bss36504> well you have 32 registers, but you have however much ram. both are accessible in 1 clock.
[16:23:37] <bss36504> 32U2 has 1K ram, 162 hs .5K ram.
[16:23:40] <aep> no, its a fifo
[16:23:46] <aep> the usb memory thing
[16:23:54] <aep> you can only write one byte per clock on avr8
[16:24:23] <bss36504> oh well yes, you would get some good speed increase with a 32 bit processor
[16:24:35] <bss36504> besides the fact that it's baseline speed is faster.
[16:25:18] <bss36504> but I just know that my MSC design based on LUFA didnt work with the 162, but it worked great with the 32U2 on the same PCB. The 162 also has some stupid clock settings.
[16:25:49] <aep> yeah
[16:25:55] <aep> maybe i didnt get the clock right
[16:26:38] <bss36504> the 162 comes from the factory expecting an 8Mhz crystal, which pissed me off since it's the only avr I know of that comes that way. Tripped me up big time.
[16:26:58] <aep> uuuh
[16:27:05] <aep> this thing has a 16M
[16:27:10] <aep> it came on the board
[16:27:15] <bss36504> sorry, 8+MHz
[16:27:34] <aep> oh you mean it doesnt work with the internal clock?
[16:28:00] <bss36504> no it does, but without a crystal on there first you cant even program the fuses to get the internal clock
[16:28:08] <bss36504> thats why it's stupid
[16:28:12] <aep> oh
[16:28:32] <bss36504> the 32U2 comes from the factory with the 8MHz internal with ckdiv8 on.
[16:28:41] <N2TOH> why is it such a PITA to add the 1284p to the arduino IDE?
[16:29:14] <bss36504> however, some of them also have a factory bootloader that changes it to the crystal, so you get stuck in the same position. at least you can tell which parts they are (allegedly) by their part number suffixes.
[16:29:33] <bss36504> N2TOH: Just a bare 1284p? or like the mega1284?
[16:29:44] <bss36504> (mega1284 arduino board)
[16:29:55] <bss36504> I mean, i can make a guess. Arduino.
[16:29:56] <N2TOH> just the bare ATmega1284p chip
[16:30:33] <N2TOH> I'm just trying to burn the bootloader so I can start workign with th chip on a solderless board
[16:31:09] <bss36504> Doesnt the ide expect there to be another atmega in between the IDE and the 1284 as the USB-serial?
[16:31:37] <bss36504> the IDE talks to a chip, which then programs the 1284 using it's serial bootloader.
[16:31:42] <N2TOH> I have the ATMEL STK 500 board
[16:32:10] <bss36504> be that as it may, it's not an arduino. there could be other things happening behind the scenes with that intermediate chip, maybe not.
[16:32:13] <N2TOH> bbl I need to run to the store
[16:32:24] <bss36504> If you have an STK500, why do you want arduino?
[16:32:32] <bss36504> that's a waste of money
[17:24:22] <N2TOH> I need a boot loader on the chip
[17:24:43] <N2TOH> only reason I'm looking at the arduino IDE is for code recycling
[17:24:57] <Tom_itx> app note 109 is about bootloaders
[18:01:11] <The_Coolest> N2TOH>> Which chip?
[18:01:21] <N2TOH> ATmega1284p
[18:01:34] <The_Coolest> I added V-USB circuitry on my board, using the USBASP loader bootloader
[18:01:37] <The_Coolest> ohhh nice.
[18:02:00] <The_Coolest> I linked to it earlier, but check it out:
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=205322.0
[18:02:01] <N2TOH> I might try that after I manage to install the common serial port one
[18:02:21] <N2TOH> after reading the errata about the PDIP version having issues with the serial boot loader
[18:02:24] <The_Coolest> use optiboot
[18:02:30] <The_Coolest> ah
[18:02:44] <N2TOH> yeah I'm patching the IDE now
[18:02:47] <N2TOH> what a PITA
[18:02:58] <The_Coolest> yep
[18:40:49] <bss36504> abcminiuser: I had a USB-related idea. Might be worth integrating something like it into LUFA.
[18:41:02] <abcminiuser> Mmm?
[18:42:02] <bss36504> AFAIK, there is nothing as easy as Serial but at full USB speeds. I was thinking it might be nice to write up some drivers for Windows/mac/linux and make a simple dynamic lib to have just a simple byte-pipe, if you will.
[18:42:56] <bss36504> It would be nice to be able to just spew data at my micro from my pc, but at a higher speed than 115.2Kbps
[18:43:05] <bss36504> (or 250k or whatever)
[19:10:59] <N2TOH> there is USB firmware for the 1284p already
[19:12:05] <bss36504> N2TOH: What?
[19:38:41] <The_Coolest> non-USB AVRs can only bit bang usb which is slow and innefficient
[19:38:57] <The_Coolest> you need a chip with h.w usb support really
[19:40:26] <xorm> you can also UART to a USB controller
[19:41:24] <bss36504> yes, but that's just a virtual serial device. you would be forever locked into that device class.
[19:42:36] <The_Coolest> bss36504 was that meant to me or xorm?
[19:42:45] <The_Coolest> xorm interesting concept/
[19:42:49] <bss36504> xorm.
[19:42:50] <The_Coolest> I'm using v-usb.
[19:43:13] <xorm> bss36504, depends on the controller
[19:43:19] <xorm> nicer ones let you set up more
[19:43:56] <xorm> if you use a simple one like the low end FTDI then you have to deal with virtual COM and their drivers sure
[19:45:01] <bss36504> N2TOH was doing something with a 1280 and arduino eariler. I was perplexed by his statement. xorm: I dont really understand what you mean. If you use an FTDI, you have to have a physical serial connection somewhere, which is hella slow compared to USB. Actually what I was proposing to abcminiuser a little while back this evening. But regardless, a H/W USB module is the way to go if you want any kind of real speed.
[19:45:42] <abcminiuser> My bad, forgot about IRC :P
[19:45:53] <abcminiuser> Hrm, a bulk transport would be easy enough with libUSB
[19:47:14] <bss36504> I find it interesting that on the whole people would rather code their micro to be a virtual serial device and get less bandwidth rather than just using libUSB.
[19:47:14] <N2TOH> V-USB is what it's called
[19:47:27] <N2TOH> it just bit bangs out USB 1.1
[19:47:44] <The_Coolest> yup
[19:47:47] <bss36504> N2TOH: Ok, I figured thats what you were talking about.
[19:48:01] <The_Coolest> not very efficient on the uC side
[19:48:07] <bss36504> nope
[19:48:10] <N2TOH> my current pain is just getting any boot loader on there
[19:48:30] <xorm> libUSB is efficient?
[19:48:34] <The_Coolest> N2TOH what is the problem with that?
[19:48:38] <xorm> err
[19:48:42] <bss36504> xorm: libUSB is PC side
[19:48:44] <xorm> not libusb, the usb-on
[19:48:45] <xorm> yeah
[19:49:01] <N2TOH> with V-USB you can emulate HID devices
[19:49:20] <N2TOH> a special keyboard for example
[19:49:36] <bss36504> V-USB is just software. You can do anything if you get a micro with a HW USB, except it can actually go full speed
[19:50:38] <The_Coolest> bss36504 problem with writing windows drivers is that you also need to digitally sign them
[19:50:42] <N2TOH> this is what I have to work with
[19:50:44] <The_Coolest> major pain in the rear
[19:51:02] <bss36504> The_Coolest: Bah, no driver signing here :P
[19:51:24] <bss36504> I do think you can install unsigned drivers if you want though.
[19:51:36] <The_Coolest> N2TOH I've had no problem getting the bootloader onto the chip, maybe I can help?
[19:51:55] <The_Coolest> bss36504 on a 64bit os, it's not practical
[19:51:55] <abcminiuser> libUSB is bulk, so yes efficient on the PC side
[19:51:59] <abcminiuser> HID is horrendously slow
[19:52:01] <N2TOH> I'm installing AVR studio now as I eat
[19:52:06] <abcminiuser> And NOT FOR GENERIC DATA DAMNIT RAAAGE
[19:52:31] <bss36504> haha yeah. I was reading about HID the other day. It gets a lot of attention from the host, no?
[19:53:53] <The_Coolest> i think that if you need to transfer a lot of data and still have plenty of cpu time to do something else than usb, you better just get a chip with hw usb
[19:54:15] <The_Coolest> the xmega128A4U looks like something I'd like to tinker with
[19:54:26] <bss36504> I agree. Thats why the arduino uses a chip external to the main cpu for handling programming.
[19:56:10] <The_Coolest> i primarily added vusb to my boards to allow easy firmware flashes w/o programmers
[19:56:17] <The_Coolest> it's also fast
[19:56:49] <bss36504> side note: holy hell this FTP transfer is sooooo sloooooww
[19:57:26] <bss36504> The_Coolest: For that application, V-USB is nice. For anything requiring real speed or processing power, you might as well just get a USB part.
[19:57:40] <The_Coolest> yup
[19:57:57] <The_Coolest> I intend to look into the 128A4U next
[19:58:09] <bss36504> Especially since the USB parts come in all kinds of sizes and power levels.
[19:59:11] <The_Coolest> only downside of these is 3.3v
[19:59:29] <bss36504> meh, I dont have much use for >3.3v nowadays.
[19:59:48] <N2TOH> or use V-USB to build a programing deivce
[19:59:49] <bss36504> you can get 3.3v sensors of every variety, lots of things are moving to 1.8v
[20:00:04] <The_Coolest> well i think the only real thing i've got that uses 5v is probably the RTC
[20:00:15] <The_Coolest> N2TOH i did :)
[20:00:35] <The_Coolest> usbasp
[20:00:49] <The_Coolest> I also made a usbtiny based programmer
[20:01:02] <bss36504> The_Coolest: 3V
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/99
[20:01:02] <N2TOH> my gripe is that I bought the STK500 as it can do everything, and this is still a pain
[20:01:16] <bss36504> N2TOH: What exactly are you trying to do?
[20:01:46] <The_Coolest> bss36504 I've got a DS1307
[20:02:14] <N2TOH> for now just install ANY bootloader
[20:02:19] <bss36504> The_Coolest: buy another one :P
[20:02:35] <The_Coolest> you're still not saying what IS the problem, N2TOH
[20:02:37] <The_Coolest> lol
[20:02:40] <bss36504> lol
[20:03:01] <The_Coolest> bss36504 i bought a $2 on ebay, works fine and comes with 4kb eeprom chip :P
[20:03:05] <N2TOH> arduino IDE says the STK500 board is not responding
[20:03:24] <The_Coolest> screw arduino ide, use cmd + avrdude
[20:03:28] <bss36504> Step one) Close the arduino IDE. Step 2) open Atmel studio 6
[20:03:55] <bss36504> If you shelled out for an STK500, you should just stop with arduino, IMO
[20:04:21] <N2TOH> I already uninstalled the Arduino crap
[20:04:25] <atom1> what's the argument for getting a STK500?
[20:04:49] <N2TOH> I am installing Atmel studio 6 on the other machine now, a few more minutes
[20:05:08] <N2TOH> the STK500 can fix any of the fuse bits
[20:05:13] <bss36504> atom1: Nice dev board? I dunno. I didnt buy one.
[20:05:18] <N2TOH> that's why I bought it years ago
[20:05:22] <bss36504> too much $$$
[20:05:52] <N2TOH> I paid about $90USD about 7 years go for it
[20:06:12] <The_Coolest> N2TOH even the reset disable fuse bit? :P
[20:06:30] <N2TOH> yes
[20:06:36] <The_Coolest> hmm
[20:06:38] <bss36504> HVPP
[20:06:43] <N2TOH> ding
[20:06:45] <The_Coolest> yeah
[20:07:00] <bss36504> I think the only programmer besides the dragon that can do it.
[20:07:03] <The_Coolest> HVPP requires a ton of IO
[20:07:06] <atom1> mine does that on the t10 but not the isp protocol chips
[20:07:07] <N2TOH> and HVSP for the smaller tiny devices
[20:07:40] <N2TOH> I bought it to change fuse bits on a tiny85
[20:07:56] <The_Coolest> yup, my usbasp board doesn't do pdi
[20:08:08] <atom1> mine does
[20:08:41] <The_Coolest> wat
[20:08:54] <atom1> mine does ISP PDI TPI
[20:09:04] <The_Coolest> USBASP?
[20:09:05] <atom1> no HVPP
[20:09:08] <atom1> hell no
[20:09:14] <The_Coolest> heh
[20:09:30] <Tom_itx> USBASP is too slow
[20:09:57] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[20:14:08] <The_Coolest> Tom_itx very nice
[20:15:32] <Tom_itx> oh and most other devices don't have a recovery clock built in
[20:15:40] <Tom_itx> in case you screw up the xtal fuses
[20:15:47] <Tom_itx> ( most common noob error )
[20:15:49] <Tom_itx> by far
[20:16:11] <bss36504> Woah now, i'm no noob and I mess that up at least once per design :P
[20:16:32] <The_Coolest> lol
[20:17:29] <The_Coolest> Tom_itx just wonder how many units have you sold? (asking because I'm thinking about launching a board of my design)
[20:17:42] <The_Coolest> unrelated to programmers :P
[20:19:05] <PoppaVic> part of the fun is that the studio and arduino-ide apparently see 1 and 0 in reverse for fuses - according to what I reda
[20:19:06] <PoppaVic> read
[20:19:35] <Epsilon-Auriga> PoppaVic: that's what the datasheet says..
[20:19:44] <Epsilon-Auriga> programmed is 0, unprogrammed is 1, for fuses.
[20:19:51] <Epsilon-Auriga> it's the nature of flash.
[20:19:58] <Epsilon-Auriga> clear flash and you set all bits to 1.
[20:20:09] <The_Coolest> that confuses the hell out of me each time i have to play with fuses
[20:20:14] <Epsilon-Auriga> when writing to flash you are writing zeros.
[20:20:27] <Epsilon-Auriga> fuses are just a small section of flash.
[20:21:52] <PoppaVic> Epsilon-Auriga: yes, and I was reading about the fuse values, re: avr-studio and arduino - seems the numbers are reversed between them, which means some issues are very likely reading a doc/setting and not agreeing on the system used.
[20:21:56] <N2TOH> the old UV erase proms were the same way
[20:22:18] <PoppaVic> (and mung the right fuses, and you need a trashcan or hvp)
[20:22:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> PoppaVic: ardweeny is,,,,ardweeny....read the datasheet.
[20:22:37] <PoppaVic> yes-yes..
[20:23:04] <Epsilon-Auriga> you could always just stick with basic stamp...
[20:24:22] <The_Coolest> I just use this
http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/ to confirm i got it right before applying new fuse setting
[20:25:34] <bss36504> I just use studio which spells out in plain english what each setting does.
[20:25:48] <bss36504> checkboxes, comboboxes. cant go wrong there
[20:25:53] <PoppaVic> hahahahaha
[20:43:02] <bss36504> idk wtf is up with my connection today. at any rate, I'm off for the night. have fun everybody!
[20:44:44] <The_Coolest> gn
[21:01:48] <N2TOH> ah some progress
[21:12:45] <jadew> Casper, I got a DS1000Z too :D it's freaking awesome
[21:12:58] <Casper> :D
[21:13:17] <jadew> I thought it would be more sucky, but it's not
[21:13:55] <jadew> it's a huge upgrade from the DS1052E and it has pretty much all the stuff I was looking for
[21:14:33] <jadew> for example I was drolling over the multiple references (something you find on the higher range ones - but not on DS1052)
[21:17:08] <jadew> and guess what, when I got there to pick it up, they didn't have the 1074Z so they just gave me the 1104Z at the same price :P
[21:17:28] <Casper> O.O seriously?!?
[21:17:32] <jadew> yeah :D
[21:17:34] <Casper> you're lucky
[21:17:39] <Casper> or someone fucked up royally there
[21:17:53] <jadew> no, the guy was like... I have a surprise for you
[21:18:18] <jadew> we don't have the 1074Z, but I'm going to give you the 1104Z instead
[21:18:55] <jadew> he said he tought he has it when I asked over the phone, but apparently the stock on the site was wrong
[21:19:33] <Casper> well, bath time
[21:19:37] <jadew> see ya
[21:22:44] <Tom_itx> wow that's a step back
[21:22:56] <Tom_itx> mmm reading the scroll back
[21:36:47] <N2TOH> ok the STK500 bombs out of flash verify
[22:42:20] <w|zzy> Awesome jadew :-)
[22:43:50] <abcminiuser> https://github.com/abcminiuser/dmbs
[22:43:58] <abcminiuser> Finally getting around to making it standalone
[23:06:25] <abcminiuser> Tada