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[01:10:00] <megal0maniac_afk> aep: Audiophiles care about jitter in digital signals. Hence many people use outboard clock sources. It's kind of funny to read what they say the clock does to the sound. I think if you listen too hard, you start hearing things that aren't there ;)
[01:10:21] <megal0maniac_afk> For example, this thing basically outputs a square wave. $499
http://blacklionaudio.com/product/micro-clock-mk2/
[01:11:27] <N2TOH> you know what they say about a fool and their money
[01:21:22] <Sinestro> sprintf is crapping out on floats even though I have the correct magic in my LDFLAGS
[01:26:14] <jadew> Casper, any complaints? I might get one today too
[03:47:03] <inflex> lo folks
[03:47:28] <inflex> megal0maniac_afk: for sure, there's a lot of noises your brain generates when your ears can't find them.
[04:08:18] <phinxy> Hi
[04:09:03] <phinxy> Have anyone any idea what xmos 'starter kit' is? can i program/debug microcontrollers with it?
[04:38:40] <amee2k> okay, this is driving me crazy
[04:42:36] <amee2k> http://paste.debian.net/hidden/925cc448/ << i'm using the TWI interface on a mega88P for bit-banging (to shift out pulses with the shift register to get better timing than software delays). the program freezes after the UART debug print "4" and i can't figure out why. what am i doing wrong?!
[04:45:13] <amee2k> twi_txb() seems to return successfully twice, so i would assume that i'm getting the while loop (to wait until the last transmit completes) down correctly
[05:57:21] <Fleck> hello guys, it's me again! :D Got next q.!
https://github.com/dop3j0e/noiseplug/blob/master/avr/noiseplug.s << line 107 loads bassline addr from flash, I wonder, can I do the same with att13? Cause I don't see mem map like that in att13 datasheet, flash memory is kinda separate
[06:07:06] <Fleck> simplified q. I can't use LD functions to access flash, right? I need to use LPM...?!
[06:12:30] <OndraSter_> yes
[06:12:39] <OndraSter_> you were using tiny4/59/1 before?
[06:12:42] <OndraSter_> 4/5/9/10
[06:19:39] <Fleck> OndraSter_: trying to port code from att9 to att13
[06:20:18] <Fleck> but I guess, I'm too dumb to do this... heh
[06:22:00] <OndraSter_> well at4/5/9/10 are completely different
[06:22:00] <OndraSter_> well, "completely"
[06:22:01] <OndraSter_> they are VERY cut down
[06:41:33] <Fleck> OndraSter_: trying to convert - it seems vice versa :D some nice features in att9 :D
[06:41:55] <Fleck> more wave gen modes for timers, flash in mem map etc :D
[06:55:36] <Fleck> so how do I know address of :bassline for example? ldi r31, hi8(bassline+0x4000) << 0x4000 is begining of flash memory for att9
[06:56:08] <OndraSter_> huh
[06:56:24] <OndraSter_> LDI ZL, LO(bassline)
[06:56:28] <OndraSter_> LDI ZH, HI(bassline)
[06:56:33] <OndraSter_> (you may need to << 1 it)
[06:56:37] <OndraSter_> LPM R16, Z
[06:59:00] <Fleck> why shift?
[06:59:25] <OndraSter_> one of these SPM/LPM needed <<1 because flash is word wide, but registers are byte wide
[06:59:40] <OndraSter_> have not touched AVR in ages, can't tell for sure right now
[07:00:27] <Fleck> the Flash is organized as 512 x 16
[07:00:42] <OndraSter_> and the registers are x 8
[07:01:48] <Fleck> yeah
[07:03:21] <twnqx`> i would just look at the pgmspace macros, Fleck
[07:03:43] <twnqx`> they show how to read flash
[07:04:04] <Fleck> ok :)
[07:04:41] <aep> phinxy: yes
[07:04:55] <aep> phinxy: but there are pratically no comunity resources for it
[07:05:22] <phinxy> phinxy, the hardware sounds awesome tough
[07:05:52] <aep> err, yeah?
[07:06:20] <aep> what do you need from it?
[07:06:35] <aep> i just researched all that stuff for an audio application
[07:06:56] <phinxy> aep, do you know what you could do with it when you plug it in to a rasperry pi?
[07:07:15] <aep> the same thing you can do with avr32
[07:08:12] <phinxy> Why would you want to do that?
[07:08:27] <phinxy> add more modules to the raspberry?
[07:08:48] <aep> erm, i dont know. you asked. i'd just not do that
[07:09:26] <aep> if you're looking for an mcu companion to your rpi for fun and entertainment, i'd go for an arduino
[07:09:32] <aep> they're crap but alot of fun
[07:10:14] <twnqx`> and you can just kill the arduino side and use them as pure avrs :P
[07:17:58] <aep> i wish avr32 was that much fun. fricking asf
[07:32:28] <phinxy> if a readme says following symbols needs to be set do i just add "GLCD_DEVICE_AVR8" to the symbols or something like "GLCD_DEVICE_AVR8=TRUE"?
[07:36:50] <Tom_itx> or = 1
[09:16:23] <phinxy> im trying to get a LCD working (SPI). I got a .hex with working code but i dont have source left. trying to figure out which pins are which
[09:16:43] <phinxy> Why does SCE Chip select go to ground?
[09:20:37] <phinxy> The only thing that have the same pin name on the LCD is miso. not even a mosi >.<
[09:54:58] <megal0maniac_afk> aep: Which avr32 are you using?
[09:55:36] <aep> megal0maniac_afk: uc3-a3 for now. AT32UC3A3256
[09:56:02] <aep> i still cant figure out how uart works on this thing
[09:56:16] <aep> maybe the specs are wrong or something. everything else works
[09:57:09] <vcelis> Hi
[09:59:02] <vcelis> I'm looking for a decent (fully working) library for I2C on a attiny... No luck so far
[10:02:20] <megal0maniac_afk> vcelis: Hack the arduino one
[10:03:11] <megal0maniac_afk> aep: Aery32 has a pretty nice library for avr32. It's targeted at the uc3-a1, but it might be portable to a3
[10:03:58] <aep> megal0maniac_afk: good to know, thanks
[10:05:51] <megal0maniac_afk> As an example:
http://aery32.readthedocs.org/en/latest/functions/usart.html
[10:07:31] <aep> uhh, that doc linkes to something else for uart and mentions uart only being used for "PC"
[10:07:41] <aep> i wonder if usart isnt a uart after all
[10:08:41] <aep> werf
[10:08:48] <aep> maybe i'll just bit bang it...
[10:10:25] <aep> or maybe i should learn how jtag works and stop abusing terminals as debugger :D
[10:17:46] <megal0maniac_afk> aep: If you have a debugger, then yes :P
[10:33:17] <aep> not really
[10:33:25] <aep> can you build them out of something?
[10:33:33] <aep> bah, guess not
[10:42:01] <megal0maniac_afk> aep: Not for avr32, no. JTAGICE3 is a good investment at the moment. 8bit AVR, 32bit AVR and the new SAM D20 ARM support
[10:47:10] <aep> i'll wait until i know i'm going to keep using avr32
[10:47:24] <aep> never needed a jtag for avr8
[10:49:03] <carabia> :o i just had an epiphany
[10:49:08] <megal0maniac_afk> Oh no
[10:49:19] <carabia> oh no but this is good
[10:49:27] <aep> it barely ever is
[10:49:35] <aep> usually it ends up with dead people
[10:50:00] <twnqx`> megal0maniac_afk: does it work for the sam3a/x, too?
[10:50:47] <megal0maniac_afk> twnqx`: I think only the D20 at the moment
[10:51:03] <carabia> i'm thinking
[10:51:14] <carabia> actually no, it was not a good idea
[10:51:26] <carabia> it was perfect in theory...
[10:52:51] <aep> lol
[10:52:54] <aep> what was it
[10:53:21] <megal0maniac_afk> carabia: WHAT IT WAS
[10:53:23] <megal0maniac_afk> ?
[10:54:25] <carabia> well cause i've been whining about the availability of 128g uSD so i was thinking, why won't i make a breakout into the phone's usd socket so it'll be uSD->SD and just tape the sd card inside
[10:54:33] <carabia> cause it has a removable back panel
[10:55:22] <aep> actually, that exists
[10:55:43] <carabia> oh nice. won't be hard to do it DIY either
[10:55:45] <carabia> but...
[10:55:55] <aep> assuming you mean this
http://www.adafruit.com/products/966
[10:56:06] <aep> no wait, other way round
[10:56:08] <carabia> Turns out there's probably not more than two manufacturers spitting out 256GB SDXC
[10:56:23] <carabia> and the price point is $500
[10:56:35] <aep> i've seen microsd thingies that take sd cards too, but cant remember where
[10:56:53] <carabia> so i guess i'll just wait for a uSD 128GB, don't think the price will be too much diff. from a regular sd
[10:56:57] <aep> why do you need that much space?
[10:57:19] <aep> can't use a cheaper storage?
[10:57:24] <carabia> music
[10:57:41] <aep> harddisk?
[10:57:50] <phinxy> should a "Input Active low" light up a led..?
[10:57:52] <carabia> hardly convenient
[10:58:12] <aep> phinxy: if you put it the right way round, yes
[10:58:20] <phinxy> lol ok :)
[10:59:04] <aep> carabia: maybe this?
http://linux-sunxi.org/images/thumb/9/9d/JTAG_MicroSD_UART-back.jpeg/180px-JTAG_MicroSD_UART-back.jpeg
[10:59:27] <aep> can solder a large sd tray on the other side
[10:59:54] <carabia> no the problem itself isn't the adapter i know how i'd go about it
[11:00:01] <aep> ah
[11:00:05] <carabia> but the problem is the price :(
[11:00:10] <aep> of the sd cards? yes
[11:00:16] <aep> i dont see why you'd use sd anyway
[11:00:27] <carabia> it's the only choice
[11:00:44] <aep> build a new player :P
[11:00:59] <carabia> no it's a phone... s4
[11:01:04] <aep> oh
[11:01:09] <aep> google cloud music
[11:01:14] <carabia> the whole idea is so that i can ditch my player
[11:01:35] <aep> i didnt need locale storage ever since i switched to android. everything goes to the etherwarp
[11:01:38] <carabia> well i'm more than "sometimes" in places where you can't even get 3G
[11:01:44] <carabia> let alone hspa or 4g
[11:01:51] <aep> then you have the wrong phone :P
[11:02:05] <carabia> the antenna sucks in this, sure
[11:02:13] <aep> maybe bluetooth mass storage?
[11:02:24] <carabia> but so does the country's mobile network
[11:02:41] <aep> i know how to hack android to add a storage driver
[11:02:49] <aep> might be a product people want
[11:02:55] <carabia> sure but that'
[11:03:01] <carabia> would just add another battery...
[11:03:15] <aep> oh
[11:03:20] <carabia> I guess i'll go with a 128 card tbh
[11:03:34] <carabia> isn't quite as big as the 160 ipod i roll around now but will have to do :)
[11:04:10] <aep> last time i had no 3g i was scared i might get eaten by wild animals
[11:04:27] <aep> pretty much everything in central europe has coverage, even the woods
[11:05:12] <carabia> diff. story here
[11:05:39] <aep> except close to italy. heh
[11:05:58] <carabia> though the antenna on this phone is piss poor compared to my old phone
[11:06:13] <aep> what was your old phone?
[11:06:30] <carabia> but hey, no one gives a fuck right as long as you have a lot of software engineers n shit. software makes everything better
[11:06:36] <carabia> nokia n9
[11:06:54] <aep> that wasnt any better
[11:07:04] <carabia> yeah, it was
[11:07:10] <aep> then your android is broken
[11:07:17] <carabia> sure
[11:07:21] <aep> the N9 signaling stuff was serious shit
[11:07:37] <aep> well, maybe not compared to samsungs. dunno
[11:07:49] <aep> i've only seen comparisons to S60 devices
[11:08:01] <carabia> don't know though, but of experience. workplace is pmuch underground
[11:08:05] <carabia> with thick concrete walls
[11:08:29] <carabia> and i could get good reception in there pretty much anywhere i stood
[11:08:48] <carabia> with the s4 i have to sit by the outside door to get even HSPA
[11:08:57] <carabia> i mean, to get any*
[11:09:00] <carabia> lol
[11:09:04] <phinxy> What could be wrong if a SPI-like LCD shows "hello world" for a couple ms and then turn blank?
[11:09:16] <yunta> did you consider buying Jolla phone?
[11:09:22] <carabia> close to door it goes up to hspa, back out can't even make calls
[11:10:20] <aep> yunta: do you have one?
[11:10:29] <carabia> aep: though, coworker has iphone 5, and it's as bad as the s4
[11:10:46] <yunta> aep: yes
[11:11:00] <aep> and happy?
[11:11:22] <yunta> before I answer, small disclaimer is needed:
[11:11:29] <carabia> you are russian
[11:11:34] <carabia> that explains
[11:11:34] <aep> sounds finish
[11:11:48] <yunta> I actually work for Jolla. And have been in the N9 team as well.
[11:11:56] <yunta> so, my opinion is biased :D
[11:12:29] <aep> that unique way of forming sentences, Nokia employee
[11:12:42] <aep> "$bla , $bla is needed".
[11:12:45] <yunta> I'm actually polish, not finish :P
[11:12:52] <aep> you worked there for too long
[11:12:59] <yunta> possibly :)
[11:13:05] <yunta> and my english sucks
[11:13:17] <carabia> that unique way of saying that you were being disposed of. yunta you might want to ask your finnish coworkers the meaning of "suojatyöpaikka"
[11:13:31] <carabia> do that for me please :D
[11:13:56] <yunta> anyways, Jolla is the best phone I owned so far, but mostly because of pov on os
[11:14:31] <yunta> hardware-wise, the only cool part is I2C port for TOH (back cover)
[11:15:14] <carabia> is there no power for it?
[11:15:58] <yunta> there is 3.3V output from phone to TOH, 1.8V i2c, one gpio (as input, for interrupts)
[11:16:21] <carabia> yeah okay how much can you draw from the 3v3 line
[11:16:38] <yunta> I don't know that, I suppose I could check.
[11:17:23] <carabia> probably a few hundred mA:(
[11:17:31] <carabia> too bad, i had the killer other half for u
[11:17:37] <yunta> what would it be?
[11:17:49] <carabia> a miniaturized:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkEeOBDmqQg
[11:18:05] <aep> lol
[11:18:34] <carabia> i love it how there's the art of electronics next to it
[11:18:41] <carabia> these software engineers probably needed it to build that
[11:19:29] <aep> yeez, you just reminded me of why i want to gtfo out of this company
[11:19:39] <carabia> how so
[11:19:42] <yunta> lol, just make a dildo-shaped cover and turn on on-board vibrator
[11:19:50] <yunta> should be fun enough, for a phone
[11:20:18] <yunta> so, anyway, I like Jolla mostly for software
[11:20:27] <aep> err, wont tell. back to the avr32.
[11:20:28] <yunta> it's as open as we could make it
[11:20:40] <aep> yeah, enjoy
[11:20:46] <carabia> :D
[11:22:46] <yunta> carabia: "disposed" is not the best description. every good devel was asked to stay, but very few wanted.....
[11:24:11] <aep> but you'd like it here
[11:24:17] <aep> still the same useless open sauce crap
[11:24:51] <yunta> "here" is?
[11:25:10] <aep> erf. dont tempt me
[11:25:22] <aep> tell me how to get this UART thing working
[11:25:30] <carabia> aep: i like you
[11:25:57] <carabia> what's the matter with uart
[11:27:10] <aep> it basically .. doesnt do anything. the according pins work, i can set them and read from them, but the ASF uart library doesnt work
[11:27:28] <aep> it's an AT32UC3A3256, but i'm pretty sure its a software issue with this asf stuff
[11:28:24] <aep> i'm wondering if they need an external clock or something, because i'm driving this from internal
[11:29:06] <yunta> what's your main clock?
[11:30:03] <aep> OSC0
[11:30:11] <aep> the internal one
[11:30:27] <aep> or you mean the speed? i think its like 12MHz? not sure
[11:30:47] <yunta> and you uart speed?
[11:30:51] <yunta> *your
[11:30:57] <aep> tried all sorts of. 300 for now
[11:31:12] <aep> i dont have a logic analyzer, so i try to see a led blinking at 300 baud
[11:31:20] <aep> plus an ftdi of course
[11:32:11] <yunta> 300.... that's low :)
[11:32:36] <yunta> I asked because old atmega couldn't do high speeds without external quartz
[11:32:50] <yunta> (due to limited divisor options)
[11:32:51] <aep> ah. nah thats not the issue
[11:33:01] <aep> pretty sure the software example is broken
[11:33:14] <yunta> did you try your own code?
[11:33:35] <aep> nah, i guess i could set those registers myself, but i'm lazy
[11:34:07] <yunta> I can send you one-page example you can tune.....
[11:34:29] <aep> uh sure
[11:34:41] <aep> for an avr32? those are totally different than 8
[11:34:47] <yunta> oh, shit
[11:34:54] <yunta> :D
[11:35:05] <aep> see, thats the problem. the ttl on the 8biters works fine
[11:35:19] <aep> avr32 isnt that much fun. just broken example code that wont compile let alone work
[11:36:20] <yunta> it sounds kinda weird
[11:36:24] <yunta> the whole concept
[11:36:55] <aep> hm?
[11:36:57] <aep> of what
[11:37:05] <yunta> 8 bit is usually enough for simple real-time things
[11:37:10] <yunta> and for anything else, there is arm.....
[11:37:29] <yunta> what made you use avr32?
[11:37:57] <carabia> foar everuthan there r arduino
[11:38:01] <aep> to be honest, i was asuming its as easy as avr8
[11:38:41] <aep> otherwise i'd use a cortext m3
[11:38:45] <aep> same price and features
[11:38:56] * yunta is "happy" xmega user
[11:39:09] <carabia> id use x86 cus u can has great suftwure
[11:39:10] <megal0maniac_afk> xmega is great
[11:39:17] <megal0maniac_afk> and avr32 isn't that bad either
[11:39:19] <carabia> suftwure r best
[11:39:27] <megal0maniac_afk> I just wouldn't use asf, personally
[11:39:35] <megal0maniac_afk> But the aery libs work quite nicely
[11:39:43] <aep> i need a usb stack
[11:40:23] <yunta> I wrote my own for xmega... but there are at least: asf and lufa
[11:40:28] <megal0maniac_afk> iirc, aery have something resembling a LUFA port
[11:45:02] <aep> i'm alergic to fins, so i closed the video before i learned that
[11:45:13] * aep checks again
[11:48:07] <aep> yeah, they ported lufa
[11:48:27] <aep> according the author of lufa, it doesnt work so well on avr32 because it was designed for avr8
[12:16:15] <twnqx`> what's the IO voltage of an original arduino board? 5V or 3.3V?
[12:18:07] <aep> whatever voltage is on the IOREF port
[12:18:58] <aep> oh. not all of them have that thing apparantly
[12:19:18] <twnqx`> meh
[12:19:29] <twnqx`> i have a saintsmart 3.2" tft w/ touch in front of my
[12:19:40] <twnqx`> and wonder if it will need 3.3V or 5V for power :P
[12:19:56] <aep> usually 3.3 logic works with anything
[12:20:08] <twnqx`> seems the display needs 5V
[12:20:16] <twnqx`> yeah, but VCC doesn't :P
[12:20:17] <aep> whats your arduino?
[12:20:33] <twnqx`> i don't have one :P
[12:20:45] <twnqx`> i am just looking at a project that uses this display
[12:20:50] <aep> ah, then dont get one and just buy an avr with 5v
[12:20:53] <twnqx`> because i don't even have the connector pinout
[12:21:05] <twnqx`> nah, i want to go with stellaris
[12:21:15] <aep> what?
[12:21:18] <twnqx`> needs to have a web server
[12:21:30] <aep> oh an m3
[12:21:32] <twnqx`> a somewhat larger ARM with integrated ethernet phy
[12:21:46] <aep> from TI, really?
[12:21:46] <twnqx`> tiva then, successor of stellaris
[12:21:59] <twnqx`> yeah, unlike certain other vendors the jtag implementation is open
[12:22:04] <aep> i checked out tiva and disgarded it because i found zero resources
[12:22:13] <twnqx`> and doesn't require shitty UIs that only run on winblows
[12:22:36] <twnqx`> my prime selection thing is complete linux console toolchain, from compiler and libs to programming
[12:22:37] <aep> uhu
[12:22:40] <aep> wow
[12:22:49] <aep> have a url?
[12:22:55] <twnqx`> if that doesn't exist it's out :P
[12:22:56] <aep> i found very little information
[12:22:57] <twnqx`> uh
[12:23:02] <aep> yeah exactly
[12:23:14] <aep> which is why i sticked to avr32, but i'm kinda annoyed by their software
[12:23:23] <twnqx`> http://recursive-labs.com/blog/2012/10/28/stellaris-launchpad-gnu-linux-getting-started/
[12:23:34] <twnqx`> this was the first reasonable thing that i came across
[12:23:41] <twnqx`> and i have the stellaris launchpad on my desk, too
[12:24:20] <twnqx`> the old one, got it for a beer from someone i got to know on a Maker Fair :P
[12:24:49] <aep> neato
[12:25:03] <twnqx`> yeah well, no ethernet etc
[12:25:04] <aep> oh but its an m4
[12:25:16] <twnqx`> doesn't matter to me
[12:25:41] <aep> i need usb high speed 450mbit :/
[12:27:27] <aep> btw, pretty sure most avr8 biters are 3volts
[12:27:42] <twnqx`> most are 3-4, only the maga seem limited to lower end
[12:27:44] <twnqx`> 3-5
[12:28:25] <twnqx`> http://www.ti.com/product/tm4c129encpdt#this
[12:28:34] <twnqx`> chip is not in full production yet, but the one i want to use
[12:28:41] <twnqx`> apparently ~11€ + tax
[12:28:54] <aep> is there a comunity for these?
[12:28:56] <twnqx`> says usb hi-speed
[12:29:07] <twnqx`> probably only ti's internal forum
[12:29:09] <aep> nice
[12:29:20] <aep> then give me all your bookmarks now :D
[12:29:30] <twnqx`> i have none for this yet :P
[12:29:41] <aep> where do you source it?
[12:29:43] <twnqx`> i have ~200 tabs open, those were some of them :P
[12:29:54] <twnqx`> http://www.ebv.com/search/?L=3&keyword=XM4C129ENCPDTI1&category=3 seems only available here atm
[12:30:22] <aep> uhm
[12:30:44] <aep> really..
[12:30:45] <twnqx`> digikey had one, but refused to ship to me :X
[12:31:01] <twnqx`> claiming us export restrictions
[12:31:16] <aep> yeah, sourcing is hard when you're outside US
[12:31:28] <aep> i happen to be in the country ebv is in
[12:31:36] <aep> so this is my lucky day
[12:32:05] <aep> twnqx`: where are you at?
[12:32:16] <twnqx`> normally it's not, it's just that this is a preproduction chip
[12:32:26] <twnqx`> .de, and i usually source from digikey or mouser
[12:32:30] <aep> ah
[12:32:33] <aep> yeah mouser
[12:32:34] <Kev-> god damnit. I forgot to add vcc/gnd connections on a board I submitted to oshpark yesterday :D
[12:32:36] <aep> digikey seems weird
[12:32:46] <twnqx`> nah, digikey works great
[12:32:56] <twnqx`> usually <36h delivery
[12:33:06] <twnqx`> (if you order around midnight CET)
[12:33:16] <aep> oh wow
[12:33:25] <twnqx`> not that mouser is slower
[12:33:37] <aep> there's also the totally overpriced hbe-shop
[12:34:01] <twnqx`> digikey also handles TI's sample shipments :P
[12:34:07] <aep> ebv says lead time 22 weeks :D
[12:34:14] <twnqx`> yes, for more than the 221 stock
[12:34:31] <aep> eh, i dont get that site
[12:35:05] <aep> oh, so they even sell to private customers? there's no buy button
[12:36:22] <aep> maybe i want to use one of those after all
[12:36:32] <aep> just need to find more documentation
[12:37:30] <aep> twnqx`: did you research xmos too by any chance?
[12:37:55] <twnqx`> rings a bell, but apparently i didn't.
[12:39:02] <twnqx`> so far i mostly used 8bit avr, but i don't feel like glueing 10€ ethernet via spi to a 10€ µC to be expanded with battery-backed RTC etc etc if i can just have a 10€ controller chip all-in-one :P
[12:39:32] <aep> yeah
[12:39:52] <aep> i made the mistake to think avr8 -> avr32 is easy
[12:40:18] <twnqx`> i think i looked into the avr32 when they were fresh, and discarded them after that :P
[12:41:25] <tzanger> if i'm gong 32 bit im going ARM
[12:41:38] <twnqx`> x86!
[12:41:58] <twnqx`> you could just run DOS :D
[12:42:24] * twnqx` wonders if he still has some 80386 around
[12:43:36] <aep> like a hundret people mention that per day, i start to think they're serious
[12:44:19] <twnqx`> what, arm or x86?
[12:44:37] <twnqx`> i must admit that intel's latest embedded drive looked interesting as well
[12:45:52] <aep> untel
[12:46:14] <aep> and i've seen industrial machines run windows 95
[12:46:27] <aep> stuff that kills people if things go wrong
[12:47:26] <tzanger> yep
[12:47:58] <tzanger> usually when I see that though the actual x86 running things isn't actually in control. it's there in a management capacity and there is realtime hardware doing all the work
[12:48:14] <aep> right
[12:53:39] <phinxy> My controller only have one Slave Select output. Can i use whatever output pin for the chip select? If so, why is there a dedicated pin for this?
[12:56:05] <twnqx`> i think it's for slave mode
[12:56:25] <twnqx`> and yes, for output you can use any pin you want
[12:56:39] <carabia> it's for salve
[12:56:41] <carabia> slave
[12:56:46] <carabia> oh u were faster
[12:56:50] <twnqx`> :3
[12:57:03] <phinxy> of course, thanks
[12:58:09] <carabia> and you toggle that manually
[12:59:54] <twnqx`> indeed, in master mode it's just another IO port
[13:09:57] <aep> twnqx`: do you happen to live near Berlin?
[13:10:11] <aep> i need tons of stuff from digikey
[13:10:58] <twnqx`> near is relative :P
[13:11:08] <twnqx`> 2.5-3h
[13:11:20] <aep> dresden?
[13:11:43] <aep> well probably not worth sharing then anyway
[13:11:53] <twnqx`> nope
[13:12:00] <aep> lets see what the minimum order is, someone said its pretty high
[13:12:03] <twnqx`> i usually order for free shipping anyway
[13:12:06] <twnqx`> it's not
[13:12:11] <twnqx`> it's just 65€ -> free shipping
[13:12:17] <aep> ah.
[13:12:40] <aep> well thats ok. although i'll still need a shop for the ocasional missing resistor then
[13:12:54] <twnqx`> reichelt
[13:13:06] <aep> hm
[13:13:18] <twnqx`> best prices for low numbers of parts
[13:13:25] <twnqx`> especially passives :P
[13:13:37] <aep> i didnt know they have electronics. from their website it seems more like a shop for gardening tools
[13:13:46] <twnqx`> reichelt.de? :S
[13:13:51] <aep> weather stations and crap like that
[13:14:02] <twnqx`> they started as pure electronic components
[13:14:16] <aep> computers, various useless things
[13:15:05] <twnqx`> they are limited in choice, but for the standard stuff they beat the likes of digikey for <100/1000 pieces normally
[13:15:23] <aep> right
[13:42:48] <phinxy> extern void delay_ms(uint32_t ms); --------- expected declaration specifiers or '...' before '('
[13:43:01] <phinxy> any idea? should i use a older delay_ms library?
[13:43:22] <phinxy> i saw like 3 different delay libraries in ASF wisard
[13:45:50] <twnqx`> Oo
[13:46:02] <twnqx`> i would just #include <util/delay.h>
[13:46:07] <twnqx`> and then use _delay_ms()
[13:46:32] <phinxy> no harm in having both?
[13:47:03] <phinxy> delay_ms(); works fine but not in this LCD library :|
[13:47:05] <twnqx`> no idea, i don't use UIs, and i just use the one from avr libc, which is ok if you know and can live with the limits
[14:34:50] <rue_bed> phinxy, what do you have cpu_freq set to?
[14:35:23] <phinxy> rue_bed solved it by using a pre-defined __DELAY_BACKWARD_COMPATIBLE__ symbol
[14:35:57] <rue_bed> uint 32 wow
[14:36:15] <rue_bed> even 65535ms is a pretty good delay
[14:36:36] <rue_bed> I bet that adds some code size
[14:36:48] <phinxy> yeah it said something about 6,5s max delay in the code somewhere dunno why that is
[14:37:05] <Sinestro> Is avr-gcc smart enough to make x * 1 a nop?
[14:37:11] <rue_bed> the 447780 init is trickey
[14:37:27] <rue_bed> Sinestro, I have a nop for you
[14:38:10] <rue_bed> #define NOP() asm volatile ("nop"::)
[14:38:16] <rue_bed> ok?
[14:38:52] <Sinestro> I'm scaling a variable by a #defined constant
[14:38:56] <rue_bed> remember that -O2 in gcc will remove empty loops
[14:39:21] <rue_bed> if the constant is 1...
[15:05:29] <RikusW> code formatting in fontconfig is ridiculous :S
[15:17:57] <RikusW> seems tab=8 + 4 spaces is mixed...
[15:27:45] <phinxy> does this always set portd.3 to 0? ""PORTD |= (0<<3);""
[15:31:38] <RikusW> phinxy: that will do exactly nothing...
[15:31:59] <RikusW> PORTD |= (1<<3); //set to one
[15:32:16] <RikusW> PORTD &= ~(1<<3); // set to zero
[16:10:10] <phinxy> RikusW>thanks for the clearification
[16:28:05] <clixxIO> Hello, has anyone tried this ?
http://tinypicbootload.sourceforge.net/quickstart.html
[16:29:23] <clixxIO> it looks like a PIC bootloader, but they have AVR also
[16:29:25] <clixxIO> http://sourceforge.net/projects/tinypicbootload/files/
[16:52:00] <clixxIO> Hello people, recently I made an AVR circuit board that mounts directly to an LCD :
https://plus.google.com/109366813998920635083/posts/in7wS4EWCpJ
[16:53:03] <clixxIO> it's designed to drive the LCD via I2C, and then have some other things like buttons or sensors connected
[18:06:42] <Epsilon-Auriga> Sinestro: there are two printf/sprintf libs...one does not do floats.
[18:06:53] <Sinestro> that was days
[18:06:54] <Sinestro> ago
[18:07:03] <Epsilon-Auriga> last night I saw it.
[18:07:03] <twnqx`> Oo
[18:07:15] <Epsilon-Auriga> or rather, saw it just now but it was posted last night.
[18:09:23] <twnqx`> he left
[18:09:37] <Epsilon-Auriga> oops.
[18:09:51] <Epsilon-Auriga> I have joins/parts off...
[18:10:05] <Epsilon-Auriga> guess I should turn on parts at least.
[18:24:37] <clixxIO> Hi Pingo
[18:24:48] <pingo> hi
[18:25:04] <clixxIO> what are you working on?
[18:25:15] <clixxIO> any projects to show off?
[18:25:24] <pingo> not at the moment :)
[18:26:58] <clixxIO> oh ok
[18:27:25] <clixxIO> I'm just trying to get a new bootloader on my attiny boards
[18:28:58] <clixxIO> https://plus.google.com/109366813998920635083/posts/j7SBC9FFYxZ
[18:30:47] <carabia> where do you get your pcbs made?
[18:31:20] <clixxIO> orders@hackvana.com
[18:31:56] <clixxIO> mr hackvana is here on this channel
[18:34:24] <carabia> yeah was thinking... has been recommended a lot
[18:35:13] <clixxIO> It's worked out for me so far
[18:39:29] <clixxIO> I'm trying to get the low power sleep mode on the avr's working
[18:46:33] <Fleck> any good tut for avr asm?
https://github.com/dop3j0e/noiseplug/blob/master/avr/noiseplug.s << whats hapening in line 469? :/ and then - those labels, are as arrays? why some lables have more items in a row than other?
[18:50:45] <clixxIO> isn't that line blank?
[18:51:09] <Fleck> no, it says .org 0x300
[18:51:37] <clixxIO> oh sorry, my lcd is a bit crap
[18:52:54] <clixxIO> I have to guess, but it looks like it's setting the address of that data to a particular location
[18:53:10] <clixxIO> as in origin 0x300
[18:53:45] <clixxIO> I was coding in the old days - maybe it is something different now
[18:56:02] <clixxIO> The ORG directive sets the location counter to an absolute value. The value to set is given as a parameter. If an ORG directive is given within a Data Segment, then it is the SRAM location counter which is set
[18:56:36] <Fleck> sram location counter?
[18:57:03] <clixxIO> location address
[18:57:32] <clixxIO> counter is the old-school talk for address, as each byte goes in one by one
[18:58:20] <clixxIO> afaik
[18:59:29] <Epsilon-Auriga> Fleck:
http://www.avr-asm-tutorial.net/avr_en/
[18:59:54] <Fleck> ohh, that awful site :D
[19:00:50] <Epsilon-Auriga> it is a good assembly tutorial.
[19:01:25] <Epsilon-Auriga> it is where I learned avr assembly.
[19:02:24] <clixxIO> Fashion styling appears to be from the correct era :-)
[19:07:00] <clixxIO> Epsilon-Auriga: which is your favourite avr?
[19:07:58] <Epsilon-Auriga> atmega1284
[19:08:24] <N2TOH> I just orgered an atmega1284p
[19:08:32] <Epsilon-Auriga> same chip really.
[19:08:38] <Epsilon-Auriga> not sure what the difference is really.
[19:08:54] <Epsilon-Auriga> other than low power capability I guess.
[19:08:55] <clixxIO> 'p' is usually for power
[19:09:01] <N2TOH> "p" = pico power sleep option
[19:09:09] <Fleck> why not 2560?
[19:09:19] <N2TOH> 16KB sram
[19:09:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> Fleck: it's not available in a dip package.
[19:09:26] <Epsilon-Auriga> and 1284 has more sram.
[19:09:47] <Fleck> Epsilon-Auriga:
http://www.avr-asm-download.de/beginner_en.pdf << this one?
[19:10:03] <N2TOH> with 56KB of sram I could port mini-unix to it without extra parts
[19:10:10] <Fleck> ;p
[19:11:08] <Epsilon-Auriga> Fleck: that's an older at90s8515...but the stuff on that site is applicable to newer attiny and atmega chips as well as the old at90s.
[19:11:24] <N2TOH> to run external code requires a bytecode interpreter on the AVR
[19:11:40] <Epsilon-Auriga> N2TOH: that's why I have 8052 chips.
[19:12:19] <N2TOH> do they have an ATMEL = to the 1284p feature wise?
[19:12:28] <Epsilon-Auriga> not really.
[19:12:39] <Epsilon-Auriga> the ones I use mostly are ds89c450 from maxim-ic.com
[19:13:15] <Epsilon-Auriga> but I can map up to 64K of sram or nvsram or flash or eprom or eeprom to both program and data space.
[19:13:29] <Epsilon-Auriga> and with bank switching magic I can go far beyond that.
[19:13:48] <Epsilon-Auriga> running from external memory really slows the chip down though.
[19:14:15] <N2TOH> wait states and all
[19:14:22] <Epsilon-Auriga> yup.
[19:14:36] <N2TOH> heh piggy back boards
[19:14:54] <N2TOH> to keep the traces ultra short
[19:14:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> the ability to map data and program space to the same chip is nice too.
[19:15:18] <Epsilon-Auriga> use a 128Kx8bit nvsram.
[19:15:31] <Epsilon-Auriga> and bank switch.
[19:15:37] <N2TOH> yep
[19:15:39] <Fleck> Epsilon-Auriga: stuff? I need tutorial/manual :D I found only one there
[19:16:07] <Epsilon-Auriga> read the avr instruction set pdf for a manual of all the commands Fleck
[19:16:21] <N2TOH> I figure with the 1284p I can run most of the code out of flash, and use an interperter for what will not fit
[19:16:28] <Fleck> Epsilon-Auriga: not cool :D
[19:16:37] <Epsilon-Auriga> why not?
[19:16:57] <Epsilon-Auriga> it's straight forward...has all the commands, what they do, how to format them, etc.
[19:17:16] <N2TOH> Fleck, what ATMEL chip do you intend to work with?
[19:17:23] <Fleck> Epsilon-Auriga: well - try to find .org there ...
[19:17:30] <N2TOH> or atmel
[19:17:44] <N2TOH> read the "errata" first
[19:17:48] <Fleck> N2TOH: at the moment it's attiny13
[19:17:53] <Epsilon-Auriga> that's not assembly..that's assembler directive...you need to read the assembler manual for that.
[19:18:10] <Fleck> Epsilon-Auriga: that's what I ask... :)
[19:18:17] <Epsilon-Auriga> or
[19:18:20] <Epsilon-Auriga> use GOOGLE!
[19:18:51] <N2TOH> unless you need ASM or ML code. start with an easier language like C or BASIC even
[19:19:16] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc1022.pdf
[19:19:25] <Epsilon-Auriga> first link when I searched for avr assembler .org
[19:19:35] <Epsilon-Auriga> the avr assembler user guide.
[19:20:01] <Epsilon-Auriga> .org is explained around page 16
[19:23:38] <Epsilon-Auriga> as your .org 0x300 is still in the section for program space, it gets put in flash...so all that data is in flash from the way I read it.
[19:23:43] <Fleck> The Assembler runs under Microsoft Windows 3.11 :)
[19:25:51] <N2TOH> what I have yet to fully understand is the interaction between the program and data space
[19:26:19] <Ni1njaneer> N2TOH: The are the same on AVR when the data is non-volatile
[19:26:41] <Ni1njaneer> When you are talking about program/flash vs RAM, then are two different regions since AVR is Harvard Architecture
[19:26:49] <Ni1njaneer> then +they are
[19:26:56] <N2TOH> I was referring to how interpreters work on the AVR
[19:27:26] <Ni1njaneer> Oh sorry, missed the context :D
[19:27:46] <Epsilon-Auriga> N2TOH: depends on how the interpreter is written.
[19:28:04] <N2TOH> I know they are separate spaces, as close to AVR ML as can be done
[19:28:35] <N2TOH> a way to insert external instructions into the registers.
[19:28:55] <Epsilon-Auriga> you can't insert instructions into registers.
[19:29:20] <N2TOH> what if the code running from program space puts it there?
[19:29:32] <Epsilon-Auriga> well, you can put the opcodes into registers but it does you no good as the chip doesn't execute from registers.
[19:29:55] <N2TOH> then what good are the registers?
[19:30:04] <Epsilon-Auriga> for holding data.
[19:30:09] <Epsilon-Auriga> for working with data.
[19:31:06] <N2TOH> so a program could be written to mimic running external code. much like how basic ran on the old PIC based BASIC stamps of years ago
[19:31:09] <Epsilon-Auriga> registers are basically ram locations with special high speed access commands.
[19:31:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> go back farther than basic stamp...to the c-64 era.
[19:32:06] <N2TOH> I know they guy who created the picoweb with the NE2000 ethernet chip managed to do it, but is less the forthcomming with his source
[19:32:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> your basic program was not executed directly by the processor...it was interpreted.
[19:32:57] <N2TOH> correct, why not write an interpreter for another language.
[19:33:14] <Casper> interpreter are slow
[19:33:14] <Epsilon-Auriga> like,,,C ??
[19:33:27] <Ni1njaneer> Or just use C :)
[19:33:34] <carabia> python ppl here again?
[19:33:34] <Ni1njaneer> And be a master of everything
[19:33:38] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcode.google.com%2Fp%2Fpicoc%2F&ei=IBvCUsi7AaS6yQGwtoDACw&usg=AFQjCNGxI8PZmKxpoGQOChTTh9EvSfuU1A&bvm=bv.58187178,d.aWc
[19:33:41] <Epsilon-Auriga> hmm.
[19:33:43] <Epsilon-Auriga> hate those links.
[19:33:44] <N2TOH> I know interperters are slow, how much speed do you need?
[19:33:52] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://code.google.com/p/picoc/
[19:33:55] <Epsilon-Auriga> C interpreter.
[19:34:10] <Epsilon-Auriga> perl, python, and a plethora of others are interpreted.
[19:34:19] <N2TOH> why not an ASM or ML interpreter
[19:34:25] <carabia> of course. php also
[19:34:26] <Epsilon-Auriga> you could.
[19:34:31] <carabia> and javascript
[19:34:34] <carabia> and html
[19:34:52] <Epsilon-Auriga> would be about 1/10th the speed of running real assembled machine code I would think.
[19:35:10] <N2TOH> to emulate the DEC LSI-11
[19:35:28] <Epsilon-Auriga> in fact, there is an avr assembly interpreter....a couple of them...but they run on a PC, not on an AVR.
[19:35:54] <Epsilon-Auriga> and there is the guy who booted linux on an atmega1284p...he wrote an arm assembly interpreter.
[19:36:01] <N2TOH> there is one that I know of that runs on the AVR, but I can't get it
[19:36:28] <Epsilon-Auriga> it only takes 4 hours to boot linux too.
[19:36:57] <N2TOH> I know about the ARM on 1284p, that why I'm interested in a simpler implement. Like the PDP-11 or just porting UNIX to the AVR I have access to the source
[19:37:28] <Epsilon-Auriga> so, write a pdp-11 emulator for the avr.
[19:37:49] <Epsilon-Auriga> if ARM can be done, pdp-11 should be doable...the processor was much simpler.
[19:38:38] <N2TOH> I'd rather write an AVR emulator for the AVR and compile the code nativity, I already managed to get AVRGCC to compile some of the code without barfing or throwing error codes
[19:39:36] <N2TOH> the problem is what to do when you run out of program space, I was planing on just running into swap space from an SD card
[19:40:34] <N2TOH> cram all the serial I/O into flash along with the boot code. and intererpt the rest from disk
[19:41:13] <Epsilon-Auriga> your interpreter is going to have to do a lot of odd translation and stuff,,,that or you will need to mod the compiler.
[19:41:55] <Epsilon-Auriga> would probably be easier to write a pdp-11 emulator and run code that way.
[19:42:06] <N2TOH> the PDP-11 had the ability to trap instructions, that's why it had mirom codes in PROM to expand it's instruction set
[19:43:30] <N2TOH> you may be spot on about the PDP-11 emulator, yet the one guy who claims to have done what I'm after is the ability to run the native code full speed
[19:44:04] <Epsilon-Auriga> go for it then.
[19:44:15] <N2TOH> in the 1284p everything would be a serial port much like the PDP, ttys0,ttys1, SPI and I2C the same just faster
[19:44:56] <N2TOH> I'm researching the LSI-11 instruction set now. so far it's just vague descriptions.
[19:45:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11_architecture
[19:46:58] <N2TOH> wikipedia is my last resort source of information
[19:47:27] <Epsilon-Auriga> good links at the bottom of the page.
[19:47:43] <Epsilon-Auriga> and there is good information in there in an easy to understand format quite often.
[19:49:50] * N2TOH is reading now
[19:49:54] <N2TOH> it*
[19:50:25] <N2TOH> http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=Mini-Unix
[19:56:44] <Epsilon-Auriga> and bedtime here.
