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[00:23:06] <abcminiuser> "The majority of sieges aren't fights but games of chicken. The side that runs out of chicken loses."
[01:42:46] <braincracker> hey
[01:43:01] <sirpatrick> hi
[01:43:02] <LobsterMan> hi
[07:17:04] <Duality> do i read PINx register or PORTx register when I want to read data on the port ? that is data put on the port by a buss.
[07:17:33] <twnqx> PIN is what you read
[07:19:54] <Duality> hmm how did I get the idea to read PORTx
[07:23:14] <CeruleanSky> some systems have it so you can read or right using the same register and detects what you are doing from the operation
[07:23:48] <CeruleanSky> right=write
[07:25:46] <CeruleanSky> not avr based ones though
[07:27:39] <Duality> some thing else, i just decompiled a .hex to asm (for fun) :) and was wondering if i could get a c representation of this some how ? I know it's not gonna look anything like the original C code though. I hope to learn from it though :)
[07:28:30] <DanFrederiksen> is it true that you can't just change the period of PWM continuously? that atmega will trip up somehow and produce the wrong duty?
[07:57:00] <Epsilon-Auriga_> Duality: I saw, once, some years ago, a program that would turn x86 assembly into C but it was dirty and not good. Haven't seen one for avr though but it might exist.
[08:00:57] <Epsilon-Auriga_> I have also seen programs that take assembly and make C out of it. Literally turning every assembly command into a C command. While this is fun and interesting, it creates a huge program that, when recompiled is much larger than the original and in no way resembles the original C code.
[08:31:42] <Duality> Epsilon-Auriga_: it's interesting thing though. I think it would show how the compiler would do things if it could write code?
[08:35:26] <Epsilon-Auriga_> one problem is, every compiler does some things differently.
[08:35:41] <Epsilon-Auriga_> even different versions of the same compiler can do things differently.
[08:36:17] <Epsilon-Auriga_> so you would need to know exactly what the compiler was used in the first place.
[08:36:21] <Duality> hm had not thought about that
[08:36:27] <Epsilon-Auriga_> then, different optimizations do things differently too.
[08:37:28] <Epsilon-Auriga_> so many variables that writing a generalized decompiler is,,,a non-trivial task.
[08:38:08] <Duality> non-trivial does that meen it's not easy ?
[08:38:17] <Epsilon-Auriga_> means it's a bitch.
[08:38:21] <Duality> not that i intent to write :)
[08:39:48] <Epsilon-Auriga_> might be easier to look at what the microcontroller does and write code from scratch to match it rather than try to decompile existing code.
[08:40:12] <Epsilon-Auriga_> or learn assembly and disassemble and read.
[09:17:42] <Casper> DanFrederiksen: the PWM isn't buffered
[09:18:02] <Casper> so it may output the wrong thing at time
[09:18:32] <Casper> and... it's f****** cold outside!
[09:18:33] <DanFrederiksen> yeah the update of the two values duty and period should be atomic
[09:18:35] <Casper> -21C :(
[09:18:40] <DanFrederiksen> canada?
[09:18:46] <Casper> yup
[09:18:58] <DanFrederiksen> yeah that is a tad cold :)
[09:19:03] <Casper> started my car 10 mins before I went to work
[09:19:16] <DanFrederiksen> do you have electric heaters connected there?
[09:19:20] <Casper> and it didn't even reached the working temp once I got to work
[09:19:22] <DanFrederiksen> to parked cars
[09:19:30] <Casper> which is a 13 mins run
[09:19:34] <Casper> nope
[09:19:45] <Casper> my car does have a block heater, but I don't use it
[09:19:58] <DanFrederiksen> parking spots in upper norway have plugs, otherwise the cars wont start again
[09:20:56] <Casper> how cold does it get there?
[09:20:59] <DanFrederiksen> it's 8C here in Denmark now. fairly mild for the season
[09:21:38] <DanFrederiksen> I guess -30 in the worst parts of norway, maybe less. but cars can fail to work much sooner than htat
[09:22:20] <Casper> nahhh
[09:22:32] <Casper> unless they are diesel
[09:22:59] <DanFrederiksen> I borrowed my sister's car once. it refused to start at -5
[09:23:11] <Casper> tell her to maintain it better
[09:23:39] <DanFrederiksen> it's gone now but it was somewhat weak. weak battery or such. but still
[09:23:55] <Casper> old gas, summer gas (yes, the mix is different in winter and summer), old spark plugs and dead batt... all that can do it
[09:24:37] <Casper> winter gas contain more butane
[09:24:49] <Casper> so is easier to vaporise
[09:24:57] <Casper> so easier to ignite
[09:25:24] <DanFrederiksen> I think it was mainly weakness of battery and maybe sticky engine. it didn't turn over
[09:25:48] <Casper> yeah mostly the battery then, maybe a weak starter too...
[09:25:59] <DanFrederiksen> maybe a sticky engine
[09:26:20] <DanFrederiksen> it all adds up
[09:26:20] <Casper> sticky engine shouln't happend if she change the oil at the normal interval...
[09:26:51] <Casper> which is at worse every 5000km, newer car is even less frequently
[09:27:03] <Casper> and at most 6 months between the oil change
[09:27:28] <DanFrederiksen> are you newfie?
[09:28:02] <Casper> ??????????
[09:28:22] <DanFrederiksen> from newfoundland
[09:28:28] <Casper> oh no
[09:32:00] <DanFrederiksen> hmm, just checked google earth for weather in canada. I see I plotted you in montreal having spotted a zigzag light in 1990 :)
[09:32:12] <DanFrederiksen> good to keep records
[09:33:31] <DanFrederiksen> -36 bit north of montreal
[09:36:22] <DanFrederiksen> when I live in a small country where all the land is colonized it's weird that other countries have bizarrely vast areas that are untouched by man and if you are left there there is no way you could reach civilization in time
[09:37:06] <Casper> +
[10:16:26] <Casper> WTH... that computer have the 5VSTB present, it does have the 5V
[10:16:32] <Casper> but lack of 3.3V and 12V
[10:20:22] <DanFrederiksen> no idea what you are talking abotu
[11:00:28] <The_Coolest> Hey guys, I'm stuck. I'm trying to get usbasploader to work on my atmega1284p. at offset 0 it works as expected. Windows recognizes it and all is well. So the hardware side is OK. But at the correct offset the bootloader starts, but Windows can't recognize it.
[11:03:14] <Casper> did you forgot to select the vector table to the bootloader section? it's a register to set...
[11:03:37] <The_Coolest> the bootloader is just over 2KiB
[11:03:47] <The_Coolest> so I set the fuses to 0xDA
[11:04:04] <The_Coolest> which means 2048 word bootloader and rstvector
[11:04:24] <The_Coolest> BOOTRST.
[11:04:29] <Casper> DanFrederiksen: a computer I'm assembling, you press power, the cdrom light flash, you can open the tray, but no fan start ! took my DMM and 0V on the 3.3 and 12V rails
[11:04:53] <Casper> The_Coolest: your code need to select the vector table for the interrupts
[11:04:59] <The_Coolest> sounds like a psu fail
[11:05:17] <Casper> by default, the avr use the one at 0x0000 and not the one at 0xC000 or alike
[11:05:25] <Casper> and no, it's a chinese fault
[11:05:44] <Casper> there is a thingy to add more usb ports to the front
[11:05:49] <Casper> it have external power
[11:06:07] <Casper> and they fucked up... somehow... it still gave power... weirdly
[11:06:11] <The_Coolest> MCUCR = (1 << IVCE);
[11:06:16] <The_Coolest> MCUCR = (1 << IVSEL);
[11:06:22] <The_Coolest> I've got this
[11:09:03] <The_Coolest> indeed I have to comment these out if I burn the thing to 0x0000 offset
[11:11:23] <The_Coolest> can't tell wtf is wrong with it. works fine 'out of the box' on a 328p
[11:18:32] <The_Coolest> ok i was wrong. bootloader isn't even starting properly.
[11:18:39] <The_Coolest> maybe it crashes
[11:20:13] <Casper> is there any assembly code?
[11:20:19] <Casper> oh
[11:20:30] <Casper> you do need to compile with the offset command somehow...
[11:20:39] <The_Coolest> I do
[11:20:51] <Casper> you can't just burn the same binary
[11:21:20] <The_Coolest> I'm gonna test somethi g
[11:21:20] <The_Coolest> I know, i rebuild it with the offset
[11:22:03] <The_Coolest> gonna try and see where it hangs
[11:25:51] <The_Coolest> I'm gonna turn on a led to see where it hangs/resets
[11:26:40] <The_Coolest> Casper this is my board
http://i.imgur.com/NkRWoqT.jpg?2 http://i.imgur.com/yCTtJx4.jpg?2
[11:44:35] <Casper> can't look, I'm at work
[11:45:37] <The_Coolest> oh
[11:46:00] <The_Coolest> well it either crashes or locks up on usbpoll
[11:58:50] <Casper> ah great.... bro's car is broken... look like I might be forced to go there...
[12:00:13] <Casper> possibly a wheel bearing...
[12:00:23] <Casper> or stuck brake
[12:01:34] <The_Coolest> ouch
[12:02:19] <The_Coolest> guess it's time to contact the bootloader guy
[12:09:06] <Storyteller> what is avr? its atmel atmega chips right?
[12:10:11] <learath> AVR is the command set IIRC
[12:13:11] <Storyteller> Im trying to determine a family or architecture of microprocessors/microcontrollers to develop various things with, 3d printers, home atomation, a tricorder, weather station, high altitude experiments on a weather balloon etc
[12:13:42] <Storyteller> many different applications, that may take different chips, but I want to stick with one family to study
[12:14:07] <learath> so, most of those sound like low cpu, except tricorder
[12:14:53] <Storyteller> I think so, 3d printer might not be considered low power
[12:15:08] <learath> makerbot runs on an avr. avrs are low power :P
[12:26:31] <Storyteller> k, reading lots
[12:30:22] <Casper> damn it's f* cold outside...
[12:30:33] <Casper> just went do a quick computer undust...
[12:30:37] <Casper> in tshirt...
[12:30:41] <Casper> at -19C :(
[12:30:54] <Casper> 30 secs outside... that's almost the limit :(
[12:41:48] <kdehl> Heh. Where are you?
[12:48:47] <The_Coolest> meh got the new version from github, and it works.
[12:48:53] <The_Coolest> I believe
[12:53:02] <braincracker> hi
[12:53:21] <braincracker> coolness?
[15:03:42] <naquad> hi
[15:04:45] <naquad> i'm reading a book about avr programming and it has a chapter that uses oscilloscope for pcb debugging. a noob question: do i need an oscilloscope to make simple devices? from what i've read it looks like i don't, but just want to make sure
[15:08:02] <Tom_itx> no
[15:08:35] <naquad> no what? no I don't need it?
[15:10:30] <Tom_itx> no to the only question i saw there
[15:11:22] <megal0maniac_afk> Some LEDS should be good enough for most of what you'll be doing as a beginner
[15:13:07] <megal0maniac_afk> That, and printing to serial if you want to go into detail
[15:14:17] <Tom_itx> Mr. Noob:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[15:15:35] <megal0maniac_afk> Tom_itx: The teensy has a print-to-usb library. Uses a custom pc side app to receive strings over HID. Program including stack totaled 1.5kb
[15:16:18] <megal0maniac_afk> Was using it today to debug SPI. Very handy and very small
[15:18:15] <megal0maniac_afk> I do love teensy
[15:18:34] * megal0maniac_afk leaves
[15:18:55] <Tom_itx> nice one
[17:06:48] <kdehl> Anyone of you guys understand the details of LucidScience's VGA video generator?
[17:07:24] <kdehl> http://www.lucidscience.com/pro-vga%20video%20generator-14.aspx
[17:08:35] <kdehl> There's one thing that I don't understand. He checks for Memready sometimes, which is a flag he sets himself in the interrupt routine to state that he's using the bus.
[17:08:38] <kdehl> Wait...
[17:19:54] <kdehl> '... "MemReady", which allows the main loop to know when it is safe to have control of the SRAM for reading or writing. Without this MemReady flag, the main loop and video driver may try to access the same address and cause a flicker on the screen. By checking the status of R25 just before a read or write, this collision is avoided, making all animations and graphics routines flicker free.'
[17:20:08] <kdehl> I don't understand the need for that.
[17:20:52] <kdehl> In the interrupt, he flips the frames, and restore it to the previous state before exiting the interrupt, shouldn't the main loop be able to do whatever it wants then?
[17:21:53] <kdehl> It has nothing to do with vsync, which the routine PAGEFLIP takes care of by waiting for the vsync to actually occour.
[17:24:20] <kdehl> And another question: the interrupt is huge, it takes up most of the cycles, except when in vertical front/back porch. In horizontal front and back porch he seems to fill upp all the cycles, so to me it seems like the interrupt is taking up all the cycles until the next interrupt.
[17:25:53] <kdehl> The starts interrupt starts with the horizontal (and vertical) sync, goes on with back porch, actual pixel drawing and then front porch! Isn't it time for the next interrupt then?!
[17:45:31] <Storyteller> mornin
[17:45:38] <kdehl> Evenin
[17:45:51] <Storyteller> so, Im pretty new to microcontrollers
[17:46:14] <Storyteller> Im looking at several platforms, including AVR/ATMega
[17:47:07] <Storyteller> could you drive a tablet computer, ebook reader or handheld game off of an avr family chip?
[17:48:36] <Epsilon-Auriga_> the simple answer,,,yes
[17:49:16] <Storyteller> ok
[17:49:17] <Epsilon-Auriga_> however, your average android tablet is much more powerful than the most powerful atmega....on the order of 10 to 100 times as fast...considerably more ram and flash.
[17:49:29] <Storyteller> ok
[17:49:36] <Epsilon-Auriga_> there are several gaming platforms out there based on avr
[17:49:58] <Epsilon-Auriga_> and I did see a text file "ebook" reader once done with an avr and a small lcd.
[17:50:11] <Storyteller> so, you could make a simple ebook reader, or game platform that was built n dedicated irmware, but making an android tablet would be a les practical aproach
[17:50:25] <Epsilon-Auriga_> it can be done, yes.
[17:50:29] <Storyteller> ok
[17:50:45] <Storyteller> help me out here, AVR is to ARM as ... ?
[17:50:46] <Epsilon-Auriga_> displaying a pdf is not a simple task....it could be done on an avr but it's gonna be difficult.
[17:51:10] <Storyteller> x86 is to PowerPC ?
[17:51:11] <Epsilon-Auriga_> avr is 20MIPS with at most 256K of program space and 16K of ram.
[17:51:33] <Epsilon-Auriga_> arm starts around 50 to 80 mips and goes up from there to the area of several hundred mips.
[17:51:52] <Epsilon-Auriga_> and your average android has an 800mhz to 1ghz arm processor.
[17:52:04] <Epsilon-Auriga_> on the order of 1000MIPS
[17:52:25] <Epsilon-Auriga_> and it has gigabytes of flash and ram.
[17:52:26] <Storyteller> ok, so its a much smaller and dedicated platform
[17:52:42] <Storyteller> AR
[17:52:50] <Epsilon-Auriga_> think of an atmega1284p as being like a superturbo speed commodore 64.
[17:52:51] <kdehl> Storyteller:
http://benryves.com/products/avrtvgame
[17:53:06] <Storyteller> is it actually based on 6502 architecture?
[17:53:10] <Epsilon-Auriga_> no
[17:53:13] <kdehl> That's a video game console (kinda) created with almost only an AVR.
[17:53:15] <Epsilon-Auriga_> just a comparison...
[17:53:21] <kdehl> Nono. 6502 is way slower.
[17:53:22] <Storyteller> ok
[17:53:31] <Epsilon-Auriga_> atmega1284p has 128k of program space and 16k of ram and runs at 20MHz
[17:53:43] <Storyteller> I am very familiar with 6502/65816
[17:54:00] <Epsilon-Auriga_> c64 has 48K of rom for built in program and 64k of sram and runs at 1 or 2 mhz.
[17:54:37] <Storyteller> right, but I mean, is it like a 386 vs a pentium 3, is the AVR a child of the 6502?
[17:55:07] <Epsilon-Auriga_> the avr instruction set reminds me,,,somewhat,,,of 6502 instruction set...I think the designers of AVR might have been influenced by the 6502, kindasorta...but they are different architectures....avr being harvard and 6502 being von newman.
[17:55:38] <Storyteller> I read something about being developedto replace 6502 in something, but that may have been ARM
[17:55:47] <Storyteller> k
[17:55:50] <Epsilon-Auriga_> 6502 has one continuous memory space...64K without bank switching.
[17:56:08] <Epsilon-Auriga_> avr has 2 memory spaces...one for programs, this is flash...and one for data, this is sram.
[17:56:11] <Storyteller> yeah, thus memory mapping chips in te NES cartridges
[17:56:34] <Storyteller> very cool kdehl
[17:56:34] <Epsilon-Auriga_> I did find the other day a 6502 simulator that runs on AVR,,,faster than a real 6502 even I think.
[17:57:22] <Storyteller> nice. ok so avr may be a playfor to explore, Im looking at many, arm, rabbit, pic etc
[17:57:44] <Epsilon-Auriga_> pic18 is equivalent to avr/atmega
[17:57:51] <Storyteller> is there only atmel in avr? there are dozens if arm makers
[17:58:16] <Epsilon-Auriga_> atmel is the only maker of avr...it is their design and they haven't licensed it out yet.
[17:59:17] <Storyteller> ok, so its much more restricted then
[17:59:29] <Storyteller> closer to pic or rabbit than arm
[17:59:49] <Epsilon-Auriga_> no clue what rabbit is.
[17:59:53] <Epsilon-Auriga_> but yeah.
[17:59:59] <Storyteller> its a microcontroller
[18:00:01] <Epsilon-Auriga_> there is an avr32 chip that is more like an rm.
[18:00:04] <Epsilon-Auriga_> arm
[18:00:09] <Storyteller> the UC3?
[18:00:19] <Epsilon-Auriga_> that's one version of the avr32, yeah.
[18:00:30] <Epsilon-Auriga_> and there is the atxmega which is halfway between the two.
[18:00:53] <Epsilon-Auriga_> atxmega is all surface mount gear though.
[18:01:01] <Storyteller> ok, so, if Im puttering around on say, an 8bit avr, or an atmega or whatever, for say, a home security system I build from scratch
[18:01:06] <Epsilon-Auriga_> so requires soldering or buying a dev board or some such to play with.
[18:01:21] <Storyteller> how well does that scale carry over to a 32bit avr handheld device?
[18:01:22] <Epsilon-Auriga_> have done home security/automation with avr.
[18:01:44] <Epsilon-Auriga_> 8bit avr and 32bit avr are totally different worlds.
[18:02:01] <Storyteller> in other words, how much does doing a small specifc task in electronics using avr, transfer to computing in avr?
[18:02:07] <Storyteller> ok,
[18:02:46] <Epsilon-Auriga_> you don't usually run an operating system on an 8bit avr.
[18:02:56] <Storyteller> right
[18:03:00] <Epsilon-Auriga_> whereas on the higher end avr32, they run linux.
[18:05:23] <Storyteller> ok, so it looks like t has some strengths and weaknesses, thank you
[18:05:39] <Epsilon-Auriga_> just like everything.
[18:06:05] <Epsilon-Auriga_> things like the reprap and may 3d printers run either a pic18 or atmega chip to control them.
[18:06:27] <Epsilon-Auriga_> some tv remotes do too.
[18:06:39] <N2TOH> a pic or AVR in the remote?
[18:06:44] <Epsilon-Auriga_> I've seen both.
[18:06:47] <N2TOH> wow
[18:06:48] <Epsilon-Auriga_> in different remotes.
[18:06:58] <Epsilon-Auriga_> usually a pic12, pic16, or attiny.
[18:07:26] <N2TOH> I would think they would be too expensive for massmarket stuff like common remotes
[18:07:44] <Epsilon-Auriga_> not really..specially for programmable remotes.
[18:07:50] <N2TOH> ah
[18:08:13] <Epsilon-Auriga_> heck, keyboards for years used an 8051 chip.
[18:08:18] <N2TOH> speaking of has anybody made an IR extender for USB or PS/2 keyboards?
[18:08:34] <N2TOH> what about the IBM model M?
[18:09:32] <Epsilon-Auriga_> 6805 processor.
[18:11:10] <Epsilon-Auriga_> http://www.kbdbabel.org/schematic/kbdbabel_doc_ibm1394796.pdf
[18:15:54] <N2TOH> I have seen people replace the board in the M with an AVR to upgrade it to USB
[18:16:01] <Epsilon-Auriga_> yup.
[18:16:10] <N2TOH> wireless even
[18:16:13] <Epsilon-Auriga_> several big writeups.
[18:16:53] <N2TOH> apparently one of them salvaged the wireless chip from another keyboard
[18:23:17] <Storyteller> 6805? I have an IBM keyboard somewhere...
[18:34:19] <Epsilon-Auriga_> unfortunately, you won't be able to do much more with it than use it for its intended purpose.
[18:34:35] <Epsilon-Auriga_> they are ROM based, not flash or even eprom based.
[18:35:00] <Epsilon-Auriga_> I think there were some that were one time programmable
[19:14:36] <N2TOH> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jeri-ellsworth
[19:18:25] <Storyteller> ok, so basically, if you are using 8boit avr, you are using an ATmega 'something', barring about 12 other chips, that arent named atmega
[19:19:02] <w|zzy> hi abcminiuser
[19:19:39] <abcminiuser> Greetings, professor Falken.
[19:20:34] <N2TOH> LOL
[19:34:02] <Epsilon-Auriga_> Storyteller: there is attiny, atmega, and at90s....
[19:34:25] <Epsilon-Auriga_> with at90s being mostly older atmega style chips before they called them atmega...mostly.
[19:34:47] <Epsilon-Auriga_> then there is the atxmega which is a bit of a higher end with more features and faster.
[19:35:16] <Storyteller> and uc3 is pretty much the only 32bit, running at 66 or 84 mhz
[19:35:44] <Storyteller> thats the biggest concern for me, the lack of high speed chips
[19:36:30] <Epsilon-Auriga_> uc3 is the 32bit avr, yes...it's not as popular as other chips of that class though.
[19:38:19] <Storyteller> by class you mean other 32 bit chips?
[19:39:55] <Storyteller> ok, and xmega is the 16bit stuff
[19:40:08] <Storyteller> starting to get my bearings
[19:40:09] <Epsilon-Auriga_> 32bit under 100MHz class, yeah.
[19:40:43] <Epsilon-Auriga_> there are plenty of arm chips in that class too.
[19:42:15] <Storyteller> Im finding out if I even need faster speed for my needs, the mega/xmega may be fine
[19:42:41] <Epsilon-Auriga_> all depends on what you need to do and how fast.
[19:43:13] <Epsilon-Auriga_> if you want to run linux you can,,,CAN,,,do it on an 8bit atmega1284p with an external 1MB simm
[19:43:20] <Epsilon-Auriga_> it takes 4 hours to boot.
[19:43:21] <Epsilon-Auriga_> but,
[19:44:49] <Epsilon-Auriga_> it does run, mostly.
[19:45:03] <Storyteller> well, running a 3d printer
[19:45:11] <Epsilon-Auriga_> someone wrote an arm emulator for the avr
[19:45:26] <Epsilon-Auriga_> 3d printers mostly run on 8bit chips.
[19:45:35] <Epsilon-Auriga_> heck, they use arduinos...
[19:46:07] <Storyteller> is avr being phased out in favor of arm? moreso, as Im just getting into MCUs, is avr a better platform to learn and pursue than arm?
[19:46:25] <Epsilon-Auriga_> they are different realms.
[19:47:06] <Epsilon-Auriga_> like the difference between an 8 inch tablet and an 8 core 16gb desktop.
[19:47:12] <Epsilon-Auriga_> they are used for different things.
[19:47:23] <Epsilon-Auriga_> neither better than the other in every aspect...each has it's niche.
[19:48:42] <Epsilon-Auriga_> for the speed of a 3d printer, an 8bit avr running at 4MHz will probably suffice.
[19:49:13] <Storyteller> ok
[19:50:10] <Epsilon-Auriga_> most of your time being taken up with reading the serial port.
[19:50:20] <Epsilon-Auriga_> and it could probably run at 1MHz and handle everything just fine.
[19:51:18] <Storyteller> the bottleneck in 3d printers seems to be the extruder and motors, not the processors
[19:51:27] <Epsilon-Auriga_> yup.
[19:51:41] <Epsilon-Auriga_> how fast can you extrude and move...without making strings everywhere.
[19:51:56] <Storyteller> so, now its a question of involvement and learning time, if I want to go down the avr roasd, instead of the arm/other platform road
[19:51:59] <Epsilon-Auriga_> go too slow and you get blobs..too fast and your dots aren't big enough.
[19:52:15] <Epsilon-Auriga_> I found avr to be the easiest to work with..
[19:52:34] <Epsilon-Auriga_> open source toolchain, simple programmer hardware, awesome datasheets.
[19:53:03] <Epsilon-Auriga_> I've worked with pic, avr, 8051, msp430, and now stellaris(arm)
[19:57:40] <Epsilon-Auriga_> well, played with..
[19:58:02] <Epsilon-Auriga_> haven't done any microcontroller work professionaly...just hobby stuff.
[19:58:06] <Epsilon-Auriga_> and learning.
[20:19:04] <Storyteller> guy over in #arm is really advocating it, Im trying to get straight answers, but he is pretty zealous about arm
[20:19:17] <Storyteller> I appreciate you speaking rationally
[20:23:14] <kdehl> D'uh.
[20:23:15] <kdehl> Heh.
[20:23:19] <kdehl> What are you going to do?
[20:24:11] <kdehl> We talk PIC, 8051 and all kinds of different controllers and CPUs here. 6502, Z80 are brought up too...
[20:24:27] <kdehl> I'd like to try out som ARM too sometime
[20:24:37] <kdehl> They're a lot more powerful, aren't they?
[20:25:30] <Storyteller> arm is pretty chaotic, smaller platforms are more stable
[20:26:23] <Storyteller> Im interested in arm, for things like a handheld game console
[20:26:41] <Storyteller> but, its overkill for a 3d printer
[20:27:22] <kdehl> You are doing a portable gaming device?
[20:27:42] <kdehl> Then AVR is probably a little too slow for you.
[20:27:51] <Storyteller> Im doing a ton if stuff
[20:28:11] <kdehl> Heh. You have a long list of things you are going to do too?
[20:28:20] * kdehl has several lists
[20:28:32] <Storyteller> weather balloons, handhelds, a tricorder, ebook reader, 3d printer, other cncs, etc
[20:28:40] <Storyteller> space suff
[20:28:43] <Storyteller> stuff
[20:29:01] <kdehl> Take over the world stuff. I know what you mean.
[20:30:56] <Storyteller> http://www.makershed.com/NetDuino_Plus_2_p/mknd05.htm
[20:31:03] <Storyteller> arm, but loks good
[20:34:12] <kdehl> Storyteller: Try ebay instead. Way cheaper.
[20:34:17] <kdehl> But slower, of course.
[20:34:59] <kdehl> Hm. Not for that particular device, though, it seems.
[20:38:41] <kdehl> Storyteller:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARM-Cortex-M3-STM32F103C8T6-STM32-Core-Board-Minimum-System-Development-Board-/271332394707?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item3f2cabc6d3
[20:38:47] <kdehl> Ten bucks.
[20:40:34] <Casper> hmmm
[20:40:37] <Casper> sound expensive
[20:41:27] <kdehl> Really? For a complete development board?
[20:42:47] <Casper> they used to give one away
[20:42:58] <Casper> I lost the link it seems
[20:43:24] <Casper> ah it's over :(
[20:44:02] <Casper> http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/PF253215
[20:44:28] <Casper> don'T know how it compare
[20:44:35] <Casper> but they used to give it for free
[20:44:42] <Casper> hence the "expebsive" part
[20:45:03] <kdehl> Heh. Everything's expensive compared to free.
[20:45:20] <kdehl> $8.7 is still really good.
[20:46:33] <Casper> ya
[20:47:17] <kdehl> Dang, those are fast.
[20:47:23] <kdehl> Compared to what I'm used to.
[20:47:43] <kdehl> I started using an external 20 MHz crystal a few weeks ago, first time. I thought that was fast.
[20:47:54] <kdehl> Needed it to generate a VGA signal.
[20:47:55] <Storyteller> hi casper
[20:48:01] <Casper> o/
[20:48:06] <kdehl> Otherwise 8 MHz has always been enough for me.
[20:48:08] <Storyteller> Ill be getting one, its 10 bucks!!
[20:48:25] <Storyteller> \o
[20:49:06] <Storyteller> will it run a 3d printer?
[20:49:07] <kdehl> Yeah, I think I might get one too.
[20:49:30] <kdehl> Heh. The programmers are more expensive than the dev boards.
[20:49:42] <Storyteller> what do you mean?
[20:49:46] <kdehl> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-ARM-Emulator-ARM7-ARM9-ARM11-Cortex-M3-J-link-V8-ADS-IAR-STM32-JTAG-/390677365085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af62f815d
[20:49:50] <kdehl> You need a programmer.
[20:50:00] <kdehl> I bet that USB port on the dev board was just for power supply.
[20:50:11] <Storyteller> ooh!
[20:50:20] <Storyteller> thats a bit of a rip then :(
[20:51:17] <kdehl> Well, you still need one.
[20:51:20] <kdehl> A programmer, that is.
[20:54:46] <kdehl> Ah, damn you ebay.
[20:55:01] <kdehl> RTC module, $2.45
[20:55:03] * kdehl orders
[20:56:18] <kdehl> $1.35!
[20:56:24] <kdehl> With battery!
[20:58:41] <Casper> hehe
[20:58:56] <Casper> and 6 weeks delivery, delayed by 2 weeks due to xmas and the new year
[21:01:35] <Tom_itx> don't forget about chinese new year as well
[21:02:40] <kdehl> Hah.
[21:03:01] <kdehl> Yeah well, I don't really need it.
[21:03:05] <kdehl> I just had to buy it anyway.
[21:06:44] <Casper> Tom_itx: true
