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[02:33:37] <_abc_> Hello. I am confused by atmel nomenclature. What is the difference between atmega168-20PU atmega168P-20PU and atmega168PA-20PU ?
[02:34:06] <_abc_> I can't find a migration guide on atmel.com so I assume they are simply upwards compatible silicon upgrades? Correct?
[02:35:29] <_abc_> Ah P is 'pico power'?
[02:36:12] <_abc_> Which simply means it is selected/manufactured for ultra low power operation, or does it have extra registers?
[02:37:17] <_abc_> I can't really read 420 pdf pages to find differences vs another 400 page pdf
[02:38:00] <jerkey> _abc_ i ran into the same problem. it means it's a picopower CPU but apparently they don't document that anywhere, someone just has to tell you
[02:38:18] <_abc_> it does say picopower in the main page on atmel.com
[02:38:20] <jerkey> i looked in the PDFs for documentation of it AFTER i found out it meant picopower, and found nothing.
[02:38:34] <jerkey> well thats what it means. it also means it will have a different device signature
[02:38:41] <_abc_> BUT it also says 2.7-5.5V for the P model and also 1.8-5.5 for the A model, which is NOT pico anything
[02:38:46] <_abc_> Now search me
[02:38:56] <jerkey> i dont know
[02:39:09] <_abc_> sh*t anyway. Thanks. Maybe someone else does.
[02:39:37] <_abc_> http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATMEGA168P.aspx vs
http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATMEGA168A.aspx
[02:39:54] <_abc_> and
http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATMEGA168PA.aspx
[02:41:27] <_abc_> I don't need industrial temp range, I need commercial and low speed grade too, but my local distri does not have that.
[02:41:30] <_abc_> argh
[02:41:32] <_abc_> $$
[02:42:48] <_abc_> jerkey: can you look in your datasheet at quiescent current and 32kHz osc working current for P part? I do not have the ds yet
[07:57:22] <kdehl> Are 8" floppy drives compatible with that standard 34-pin ribbon cable?
[07:58:04] <kdehl> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTERNAL-5-25-FULL-SIZE-FLOPPY-DRIVE-FROM-PRAVETZ-8-MACHINE-VINTAGE-/181236031085?pt=US_Floppy_Zip_Jaz_Drives&hash=item2a32825e6d
[07:58:18] <kdehl> Seems to be that cable, but I wonder if it is the same
[08:24:36] <_abc_> pravetz was a Bulgarian clone of I forget what. Look it up. It is probably not compatible but maybe.
[08:25:28] <kdehl> Apple II.
[08:25:30] <kdehl> Heh
[10:18:36] <beaky> hello
[11:54:19] <ThiefMaster> hrm, does writing DDRx clear PORTx values even for unrelated pins?
[11:54:58] <ThiefMaster> i haven't found anything in the datasheet on a quick look but my program's behavior looks very much like it's the case
[11:55:06] <N1njaneer> Nope.
[12:04:28] <ThiefMaster> ah, found the error in my programs
[12:04:30] <ThiefMaster> -s
[12:04:44] <ThiefMaster> i had some macros and ended up writing to PINA instead of PORTA
[12:05:30] <ThiefMaster> and for whatever reason it worked just fine (apparently even enabled the pullups) when not touching DDRA afterwards
[12:08:16] <N1njaneer> Goodgood
[16:06:58] <kdehl> Is it true that I can only use 8 bits of the ISA bus of some 16-bit VGA cards?
[16:07:01] <kdehl> I think I've seen some project somewhere that did just that, but I can't find it again...
[16:16:47] <OndraSter> why you should be limited to only 8 bits?
[16:16:50] <N2TOH> what a VGA card from the AVR?
[16:17:01] <OndraSter> no, connect ISA VGA to AVR
[16:17:21] <N2TOH> yeah what I said
[16:17:41] <kdehl> Actually, I'm thinking 6502.
[16:18:00] <N2TOH> it;s been done, trouble is I have no idea where to find ISA video cards anymore
[16:18:10] <kdehl> N2TOH: ebay has lots.
[16:18:42] <N2TOH> I have considered doing this awhile back by mounting the AVR chip to an ISA protoboard and using an industrial backplain
[16:18:43] <kdehl> I just saw an ISA NIC run by an AVR, but it used all 16 bits...
[16:18:52] <kdehl> http://www.lightner.net/picoweb/article/picoweb.htm
[16:19:59] <bsdfox> hah that's impressive
[16:21:03] <kdehl> From 1999.
[16:21:03] <tzanger> you could use a bus multiplexer and feed the video card data in two 8 byte accesses
[16:21:40] <N2TOH> yeah I know of Dave's project. interesting guy, called him a few months back about his byte code interpter
[16:21:40] <N2TOH> I'm toying with the idea of writing a PDP-11 emulator after seeing the hack a day project the emulated an ARM CPU
[16:21:40] <N2TOH> I would use an 1284P or the newer 2564 with it's 32KB of internal SRAM
[16:21:40] <N2TOH> that's enough to run LSX UNIX
[16:21:50] <N2TOH> or use a bigger AVR with more GPIO
[16:22:21] <bsdfox> N2TOH, the one that runs linux on an avr?
[16:22:59] <N2TOH> yeah the linux on ARV was done by emulating an ARM chip, and ran an ARM port of Linux
[16:23:54] <N2TOH> I figured why not emulate a system that is closer to the performance of the AVR, then I found the source code to AT&T System 5+ UNIX
[16:24:19] <N2TOH> so why not squirt the K&R C code into AVR-GCC
[16:25:37] <N2TOH> I figured with some sort of byte code interperter I could cheat and side step the limitation of the Flash memory and RAM limitations by running from an SD card
[18:02:52] <Epsilon-Auriga> kdehl:
http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml http://old.pinouts.ru/Storage/8InchDisk_pinout.shtml
[18:02:57] <Epsilon-Auriga> they don't look compatible.
[18:05:29] <Epsilon-Auriga> N2TOH: I found a C interpreter.....
[18:06:00] <Epsilon-Auriga> and, where is that unix source? I want!
[18:06:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://code.google.com/p/picoc/ C interpreter that I have kind of gotten to run on an atmega1284p with some major cuts.
[18:11:05] <kdehl> Epsilon-Auriga: You really follow the log here. :)
[18:11:18] <N2TOH> looking now, it's off a wiki page
[18:11:18] <Epsilon-Auriga> yup.
[18:11:27] <Epsilon-Auriga> scroll back whenever I sit down at the computer.
[18:11:29] <kdehl> Epsilon-Auriga: Do you know about 8 vs 16-bit ISA bus?
[18:11:31] <kdehl> Heh.
[18:11:35] <Epsilon-Auriga> which is most of the time at home.
[18:11:44] <N2TOH> http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl
[18:11:46] <kdehl> Like, can you force 8-bit usage on a 16-bit card?
[18:11:47] <Epsilon-Auriga> some 16bit video cards can run in 8bit mode.
[18:11:52] <N2TOH> UNIX source code ^^^
[18:12:07] <kdehl> Epsilon-Auriga: But they're not required to be able to do so?
[18:12:16] <Epsilon-Auriga> no.
[18:12:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> thanks N2TOH
[18:12:21] <kdehl> According to what I can find, they're not.
[18:12:23] <kdehl> Yeah. Okay.
[18:12:27] <N2TOH> np
[18:12:28] <kdehl> Thanks for clearing it out. :)
[18:12:36] <Epsilon-Auriga> kdehl: trident and oak video cards were good for running in 8bit mode.
[18:12:56] <kdehl> Okay.
[18:12:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> look for ones with like 256K of video ram...those would be older and more likely to do so.
[18:13:06] <kdehl> I should keep looking for those.
[18:13:13] <kdehl> Okay, so it was quite common, huh?
[18:13:14] <Epsilon-Auriga> I have also seen, and have, an 8bit vga card.
[18:13:19] <Epsilon-Auriga> yeah, it was..
[18:13:29] <Epsilon-Auriga> in the day of 286, the cards were made for xt and at machines..
[18:13:34] <kdehl> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cirrus-Logic-GD-5422-ISA-VGA-card-/231111490062?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item35cf517a0e
[18:13:39] <Epsilon-Auriga> xt being 8bit and all.
[18:13:45] <kdehl> Yeah.
[18:14:25] <kdehl> So they automatically switch to 8-bit if there's no 16-bit extension of the ISA bus connected to card?
[18:14:48] <tzanger> oh god cirrus logic
[18:14:52] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Oak+Technology+Video+Card&_osacat=0&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XOak+Technology+Video+Card+8bit&_nkw=Oak+Technology+Video+Card+8bit&_sacat=0&_from=R40
[18:14:54] <kdehl> There are a bunch of 8-bit VGA cards on ebay, but they're so damn expensive.
[18:14:56] <Epsilon-Auriga> oak tech.
[18:14:56] <tzanger> I worked on a PCMCIA video card design using those
[18:15:32] <Epsilon-Auriga> some of those, specially the older ones, should support 8bit...would have to do some research.
[18:16:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showwiki.php?title=Hardware:8bit+Friendly+ISA+VGA+cards
[18:16:34] <Epsilon-Auriga> there ya go...reference for 8bit friendly isa vga cards.
[18:16:37] <kdehl> Oh man!
[18:16:40] <kdehl> Awsome!
[18:16:42] <kdehl> Thanks.
[18:17:02] <Epsilon-Auriga> trident looks to be the best.
[18:17:11] <Epsilon-Auriga> they were the most awesome ones back in the day.
[18:17:19] <N2TOH> why not just use an AVR with enough pins to support the full 16 bit ISA bus?
[18:17:32] <kdehl> N2TOH: Who says I'll use an AVR?
[18:17:41] * kdehl looks at the name of the channel
[18:17:47] <kdehl> Ah, right.
[18:17:48] <Epsilon-Auriga> N2TOH: it's doable...I've seen both 8 and 16 bit done with video cards.
[18:18:20] <Epsilon-Auriga> I did use an old 8bit vga card some years ago with an atmega32.
[18:18:25] <Epsilon-Auriga> it was relatively simple.
[18:18:29] <N2TOH> 16 bits's is doable it's just a matter of enough IO pins and/or strapping some pins on the card
[18:19:41] <kdehl> So, how about other cards, like NICs?
[18:20:03] <kdehl> I mean RS-232 and parallel port cards are commonly 8-bit anyway.
[18:20:15] <N2TOH> an NE2000 card has been done
[18:20:24] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-VGA-Trident-8900D-and-9000I-VGA-Display-adapter-/131049395288?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item1e83271458
[18:20:42] <N2TOH> that's why I keep mentioning full ISA bus support
[18:21:07] <Epsilon-Auriga> novel ne2000 cards are doable easily....never thought about it but it shouldn't be difficult to do one of those serial/parallel cards...I even have a few...hmmm.
[18:21:21] <kdehl> Hehe.
[18:21:33] <Epsilon-Auriga> N2TOH: you don't need more than 4 i/o pins to do full 16bit isa..
[18:21:42] <Epsilon-Auriga> just need a couple of shift registers.
[18:21:59] <N2TOH> just slap your chip of choice on an ISA proto board
[18:22:01] <Epsilon-Auriga> well, 4 or 8 or so, but, yeah.
[18:22:13] <kdehl> NE1000!
[18:22:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> that's 8bit actually kdehl
[18:22:24] <N2TOH> and for a few dollars more you can use a single ATMEL part
[18:22:36] <kdehl> Only BNC connectors, but what the heck.
[18:22:41] <kdehl> Epsilon-Auriga: Yeah, I just saw that.
[18:22:44] <kdehl> Epsilon-Auriga: And cheap too.
[18:22:47] <tzanger> go full retard and wire up an 8255 to an AVR
[18:22:53] <Epsilon-Auriga> you don't have a switch with a thinnet connection?
[18:22:59] <tzanger> nothing it can do that a PCA9555 can't do
[18:23:10] <Epsilon-Auriga> tzanger: have some, done it...
[18:23:17] <tzanger> heh
[18:23:23] <Epsilon-Auriga> free samples rock.
[18:23:27] <N2TOH> sound blaster 16 for the win!
[18:23:35] <tzanger> my very first hardware "hack" was a triple-8255 board I bult because I got sick of not having I/O on a computer
[18:23:50] <Epsilon-Auriga> I used them eventually for an 8052 board.
[18:23:53] <tzanger> that was a long, long time ago now, I must have been 10 or 11 I think
[18:25:38] <kdehl> Hm. Maybe I should go token ring. They're even cheaper.
[18:26:02] <N2TOH> RS-485 serial
[18:26:54] <kdehl> Heh.
[18:27:07] <kdehl> No, I will do ethernet one way or another.
[18:28:33] <Epsilon-Auriga> arcnet!
[18:28:55] <N2TOH> carrier pidgens
[18:29:31] <Epsilon-Auriga> or, go 10base5
[18:29:36] <Epsilon-Auriga> the original ethernet.
[18:29:46] <N2TOH> I would think that making an ISA board would be cheaper then buying all the newer shield and cape boards
[18:30:12] <N2TOH> yes thank you Xerox of inventing Ethernet
[18:30:26] <N2TOH> for*
[18:30:32] <Epsilon-Auriga> welcome.
[18:30:43] * Epsilon-Auriga works for Xerox.
[18:32:00] <Epsilon-Auriga> spent the day working on a 20000 dollar xerox inkjet.
[18:32:50] <tzanger> xerox never comes up with anything original anymore
[18:33:15] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.office.xerox.com/multifunction-printer/color-multifunction/colorqube-9300-series/enus.html?CMP=KNC-XOGUS&HBX_PK=colorqube_9301&HBX_OU=50&ADGRP=colorqube_9301&mkwid=s5GSCAFfk_dc|pcrid|30016805282|pkw|colorqube%209301|pmt|b|
[18:33:30] <Epsilon-Auriga> they can't even get the old technology right anymore.
[18:33:40] <tzanger> solid ink != inkjet, does it?
[18:33:46] <Epsilon-Auriga> fax addons for their copiers are sadly lacking.
[18:33:50] <Epsilon-Auriga> tzanger: yup.
[18:33:55] <Epsilon-Auriga> melts the ink..wax
[18:34:02] <Epsilon-Auriga> then shoots it through inkjet like printheads.
[18:34:24] <Epsilon-Auriga> prints onto a rotating oil film coated drum to build up the image then presses it onto the paper.
[18:34:48] <Epsilon-Auriga> that device has 4 printheads...880 jets each, 220 of each of 4 colors.
[18:35:13] <kdehl> I guess making a 8-bit VGA card shouldn't be too hard either. I could use a µC to generate the signal.
[18:35:14] <Epsilon-Auriga> makes up to 13 revolutions of the drum while printing and moving the heads for each revolution to achieve something like 600dpi.
[18:35:29] <Epsilon-Auriga> kdehl: it's been done...avr can do it....
[18:35:42] <kdehl> Epsilon-Auriga: I have done it. Heh.
[18:35:44] <Epsilon-Auriga> funnest is where they use the SPI hardware to generate mono VGA.
[18:36:11] <Epsilon-Auriga> not so good for graphics because of the bit spacing between 8bits of data..
[18:36:16] <Epsilon-Auriga> but great for text.
[18:36:54] <kdehl> Yeah. But it'd be nice with a full 640-pixel horizontal resolution. You need over 25 MHz for that...
[18:37:08] <kdehl> And more memory if you want to go graphical.
[18:37:23] <kdehl> Maybe an FPGA. But that feels like cheating to me.
[18:37:29] <Epsilon-Auriga> what's your pixel clock for 640x480 vga?
[18:37:54] <Epsilon-Auriga> 25.175
[18:37:57] <Epsilon-Auriga> a bitch to get.
[18:37:58] <Epsilon-Auriga> but
[18:37:58] <kdehl> 25.somethjin
[18:37:59] <kdehl> Yeah.
[18:38:00] <Epsilon-Auriga> go 800x600
[18:38:02] <Epsilon-Auriga> 40mhz.
[18:38:11] <Epsilon-Auriga> make pixels twice as wide.
[18:38:13] <Epsilon-Auriga> down to 20mhz.
[18:38:15] <Epsilon-Auriga> 400x600
[18:38:19] <kdehl> Oh.
[18:38:24] <kdehl> Man, that's clever.
[18:38:37] <kdehl> I might actually just try that.
[18:38:42] <Epsilon-Auriga> or even 200x600 if you want to go down even to 10MHz
[18:38:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> then double or triple scan lines.
[18:39:05] <Epsilon-Auriga> and get 200x200 res
[18:39:27] <kdehl> Nah, 400x600 sounds good.
[18:39:38] <Epsilon-Auriga> now
[18:39:42] <Epsilon-Auriga> get serial sram.
[18:39:56] <Epsilon-Auriga> microchip makes some nice ones with dual or quad output.
[18:40:01] <Epsilon-Auriga> that clock at 20MHz
[18:40:13] <Epsilon-Auriga> interleave them....1Mbit sram
[18:40:23] <kdehl> Yeah, I have that already. Heh. Dual-port SRAM that I will use for the VGA generator.
[18:40:25] <Epsilon-Auriga> and output video at full 800x600.
[18:40:38] <Epsilon-Auriga> I'm using that method.
[18:40:40] <Epsilon-Auriga> no dual port..
[18:40:47] <kdehl> Not serial though. It's parallel.
[18:40:49] <Epsilon-Auriga> just double buffered.
[18:40:57] <kdehl> Oh.
[18:41:03] <Epsilon-Auriga> 2 chips can be clocked at 20mhz each, interleaved I get 40mhz.
[18:41:10] <Epsilon-Auriga> write to one pair....set it for display.
[18:41:22] <Epsilon-Auriga> write to the other pair....switch during vertical blank,,,no flicker.
[18:41:43] <Epsilon-Auriga> using a bit of glue logic to do the vga output.
[18:41:48] <kdehl> Sounds similar to what that guy at lucidscience did.
[18:42:18] <Epsilon-Auriga> 40MHz crystal and some 74xx logic to toggle clock lines and select outputs of the two chips alternately.
[18:42:20] <kdehl> That's where I stole the timing maths of my 20 MHz signal.
[18:42:25] <kdehl> Yeah.
[18:42:31] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://tinyvga.com/vga-timing
[18:42:34] <kdehl> http://www.lucidscience.com/pro-vga%20video%20generator-1.aspx
[18:43:25] <kdehl> Yeah, anyway. It's a later project. First I need to get the ISA bus working.
[18:43:31] <N2TOH> kdehl, uC based VGA generators have been done.
[18:43:46] <Epsilon-Auriga> with my version, using a pair of 1Mbit serial srams with quad output I can get 4bit RGBI vga.
[18:44:02] <Epsilon-Auriga> using 4 of them I get double buffering video.
[18:44:19] <Epsilon-Auriga> at 800x600 resolution.
[18:44:26] <kdehl> Cool! Do you get new data from the SRAM after each HBLANK?
[18:44:36] <kdehl> Or after you ouput each row.
[18:45:06] <kdehl> I'm thinking NES terms, is it even called vblank generally?
[18:45:07] <Epsilon-Auriga> I set the sram to output data in sequence then just set the clock to toggling the clock line and let it go.
[18:45:21] <Epsilon-Auriga> vblank is the time at the end or bottom of a video frame that is not displayed.
[18:45:33] <kdehl> Yeah, I meant hblank, sorry.
[18:45:40] <Epsilon-Auriga> that's when you do your buffer switch,,,or write to a single buffer.
[18:45:53] <Epsilon-Auriga> hblank is the time before and after the display line...
[18:45:58] <kdehl> Oh, so not after each line.
[18:46:12] <Epsilon-Auriga> called front porch and back porch.
[18:46:20] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://tinyvga.com/vga-timing/800x600@60Hz
[18:46:33] <kdehl> But do you have enough memory in the µC to keep an entire screen there at once?
[18:46:37] <N2TOH> check out the LTC6904 it's an I2C programble clock that can output 1Khz to 68KHz
[18:47:00] <Epsilon-Auriga> I don't keep it in the uC
[18:47:07] <Epsilon-Auriga> I keep it in those srams.
[18:47:31] <Epsilon-Auriga> and use the output pins of the srams to feed to the monitor directly.
[18:47:36] <N2TOH> you guys have renewed my interest in building an AVR ISA card
[18:47:47] <kdehl> Oh. Um.
[18:47:57] <kdehl> They have both serial and parallel output?
[18:48:13] <Epsilon-Auriga> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en559066
[18:48:19] * kdehl checks
[18:48:19] <Epsilon-Auriga> pseudo-parallel.
[18:48:32] <Epsilon-Auriga> you can read or write 1, 2, or 4 bits at a time....
[18:48:56] <Epsilon-Auriga> then you can set it to feed data out one bit, nibble, or two nibbles at a time with each clock pulse.
[18:49:27] <Epsilon-Auriga> so it will stream the entire data with just toggling the clock a few(lots of fews) times.
[18:49:43] <Epsilon-Auriga> it's an SPI serial sram.
[18:49:50] <kdehl> Aha. And then you need as many of those chips as you want your color resolution to be.
[18:50:02] <Epsilon-Auriga> if you use only 1 bit output, yeah.
[18:50:07] <kdehl> 4 chips equals 4-bit colors.
[18:50:18] <kdehl> Ohhh.
[18:50:18] <Epsilon-Auriga> can do 1 chip and 4 bits out at a time.
[18:50:24] <Epsilon-Auriga> that's what SQI is.
[18:50:27] <Epsilon-Auriga> has 4 outputs.
[18:50:29] <kdehl> Hm.
[18:50:36] <Epsilon-Auriga> serial quad interface.
[18:51:12] <kdehl> But as soon as the next bit is output, the cathode beam will have moved to the next pixel anyway, right?
[18:51:24] <Epsilon-Auriga> if you clock it at the right speed, yeah.
[18:51:44] <Epsilon-Auriga> by feeding out at 40MHz...20mhz each for 2 chips interleaved.
[18:52:04] <kdehl> Right.
[18:52:28] <Epsilon-Auriga> or use one and you get 2 pixels for each clock
[18:55:25] <kdehl> No I don't get it. You need to output two bits serially from the SRAMS to the same pixel if you don't use one ram chip for each color bit...
[18:55:55] <Epsilon-Auriga> that chip can output 1, 2, or 4 bits at a time.
[18:56:34] <kdehl> Oh it can.
[18:56:43] <kdehl> Okay, well, now it makes sense.
[18:56:51] <Epsilon-Auriga> that's what SDI and SQI are..dual and quad
[18:56:56] <kdehl> I didn't read the datasheet that far. Heh.
[18:57:21] <kdehl> Clever little chip.
[18:57:25] <kdehl> I've gotta try this.
[18:58:30] <Epsilon-Auriga> it's on the first page of the datasheet!
[18:58:31] <Epsilon-Auriga> hehe
[18:58:56] <kdehl> And you have two sets of those chips that you switch between, in order to be able to update the image whenever you want without causing flicker?
[18:59:23] <kdehl> Alter between, after every frame.
[18:59:55] <Epsilon-Auriga> yeah.
[19:00:11] <Epsilon-Auriga> can let one set display constantly until I have the other set updated,,then send a switch command.
[19:00:30] <Epsilon-Auriga> so it can be several, or several hundred, frames before I switch.
[19:00:52] <hackvana> kdehl:
http://www.linusakesson.net/scene/craft/
[19:01:06] <Epsilon-Auriga> what I am looking to do is a 2/1 buffer thingie..
[19:01:13] <Epsilon-Auriga> actually having 3 buffers..
[19:01:22] <Epsilon-Auriga> the processor can write to only one.
[19:01:30] <kdehl> hackvana: I've seen that. Pretty awsome.
[19:01:38] <kdehl> That's smart.
[19:01:43] <Epsilon-Auriga> then a secondary processor copies updates from that to one of the display buffers...
[19:01:52] <kdehl> Of course you shouldn't update the frame until you're done drawing it.
[19:01:59] <Epsilon-Auriga> yup.
[19:02:23] <kdehl> (That's even a technique you use in the NES... I should have thought of that!)
[19:02:46] <Epsilon-Auriga> hackvana: that's the one that uses the hardware SPI master to generate vga.
[19:03:12] <Epsilon-Auriga> which is what gave me the idea to use spi serial sram chips.
[19:07:01] <Epsilon-Auriga> have considered using an 80column chip from a commodore 128.
[19:07:38] <Epsilon-Auriga> that outputs cga but I have an nec multisync that will accept it.
[19:11:05] <kdehl> http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showwiki.php?title=XTIDE+Rev2
[19:11:11] <hackvana> One of the guys in #hackvana had the idea of using an LFSR
[19:11:29] <kdehl> " Vintage Computer forum driven project to develop and manufacture an 8-bit ISA IDE controller."
[19:11:29] <hackvana> An LFSR will generate all the addresses in a range without repeating
[19:11:51] <hackvana> It could be used to pump the data out of a RAM chip without having to run all the address lines from the MCU to the RAM
[19:13:13] <Epsilon-Auriga> LFSR?
[19:13:27] <Epsilon-Auriga> shift register?
[19:46:09] <N2TOH> so I should start laying out a 16 bit ISA card with a high pin count AVR then...
[19:47:28] <Tom_itx> did you see rue_house's isa programmer?
[19:47:41] <N2TOH> umm no?
[19:48:03] <Tom_itx> search hackaday
[19:49:51] <N2TOH> http://hackaday.com/2011/02/03/stk200-pocket-change-programmer/
[19:50:14] <N2TOH> yeah that's freaking cheap! what about USB to IDE converters?
[20:19:01] <hackvana> Epsilon-Auriga:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LFSR
[20:20:02] <Epsilon-Auriga> aahh
[20:20:05] <Epsilon-Auriga> mini state machine.
[20:28:37] <hackvana> Of sorts
[20:28:51] <rue_house> tee hee hee
[20:29:01] <rue_house> finally used a ide port for soemthign
[20:43:45] <Casper> stupid staples... (.ca)
[20:44:05] <Casper> I enter my zip code like j4j4j4 and it can't find any store
[20:44:21] <Casper> I write it j4j 4j4 and it say invalid
[20:44:28] <Casper> it wanted: J4J4J4
[20:52:48] <N2TOH> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1778/
[21:22:25] <Valen> that seems dangerous
[21:24:02] <N2TOH> really?
[21:54:51] <Valen> people die from caffieen overdose
[21:58:49] <N1njaneer> For a 200 lbs (90kg) person, you'd have to eat more than a full container of that to put you even close to the LD50 for caffiene.
[22:00:56] <N2TOH> so it should have a child warning? or maybe just the LD50 info?
[22:01:08] <N1njaneer> Compare that to consuming a fraction of a bottle of asprin at once. :)
[22:01:43] <N1njaneer> Well like any other substance, medicinal or otherwise, it should have a child warning. Obviously people are also sensitive to caffiene that may have existing conditions.
[22:01:53] <N2TOH> they baned caffeinated alcoholic beverages here in PA
[22:01:56] <N1njaneer> But then again a single peanut will kill some unlucky people.
[22:02:35] <N2TOH> same deal with some antibotics
[22:04:00] <N1njaneer> N2TOH: I'm in OH. I think it was actually an FDA ban on the caffiene/liquor combination drinks after all the Four Loko stuff.
[22:04:15] <N1njaneer> (so country-wide)
[22:05:03] <Tom_itx> most advertised drugs these days come with more harmful warnings than what the drug does good
[22:05:21] <N2TOH> I know
[22:05:38] <N1njaneer> Yes, though many times those only happen in the minority of cases and people, but they need to be listed anyhow.
[22:05:56] <N1njaneer> As it is commonly said, labels and signs are not meant to inform, they are meant to cover one's ass.
[22:06:14] <N2TOH> and the manufactures are still making a killing both financially, and literally
[22:06:44] <N1njaneer> Yep, though offset by the tens of millions of dollars it takes to push through FDA testing.
[22:06:56] <Tom_itx> it's the drug companies way to be able to push their products to the public whether safe or not. gives the public a hope for a cure for whatever with disregard for safety.
[22:07:10] <Tom_itx> let your doctor decide....
[22:07:19] <Tom_itx> well he's gonna give you what you want
[22:07:21] <N1njaneer> Lot of gray area all around.
[22:07:27] <N2TOH> best advice I have heaver heard from a litigation lawyer "never take a drug that has been on the market less then 10 years"
[22:07:37] <N2TOH> ever*
[22:08:16] <N1njaneer> Assuming you're not a cancer patient with less than 10 years to live, and an experimental drug that could save your life :)
[22:08:26] <N1njaneer> Life is full of decisions :)
[22:08:38] <N2TOH> never mind the "cleanliness factor"
[22:08:48] <N2TOH> most cancer drugs are dirty
[22:09:01] <N2TOH> IE very sloppy QC
[22:09:16] <Tom_itx> cancer wasn't near a problem until we started using all sorts of new products and containers that bleed off poisons we injest
[22:09:30] * N2TOH nods indeed
[22:09:51] <Tom_itx> you are what you eat
[22:10:03] <N2TOH> I laugh at the CFL and LED light bulbs (/me uses LED)
[22:10:07] <N1njaneer> Tom_itx: Citation of that statistic?
[22:10:39] <N2TOH> the CFL has Mercury, LED contains Arsenic and other toxins
[22:11:12] <N1njaneer> Yes but in the LED it's encapsulated and will not come out unless you literally grind the die in to powder and ingest.
[22:12:45] <N2TOH> I know that's why I opt for the LED lights despite the higher purchase cost
[22:13:05] <N1njaneer> I'm doing my part - we've been RoHS compliant for all of the boards we produce going on 5+ years now.
[22:13:30] <N2TOH> GAHH! they remived the solder from the solder!
[22:13:30] <N1njaneer> I can't belive people are actually still running production with leaded stuff. I didn't find it difficult to switch over.
[22:14:18] <Tom_itx> increases tin whiskers
[22:14:21] <N2TOH> I used to do work that was exempt from RoHS, they insisted on the Lead solder for reliability
[22:14:40] <Tom_itx> but i suppose nowdays nobody keeps anything long enough for that to happen
[22:14:49] <N1njaneer> Haven't seen any in the past 5 years :)
[22:15:06] <N2TOH> I still use lead for my personal hobby projects
[22:15:58] <N2TOH> speaking of, a major lead smelter was shut down here in the US not long ago. now you can expect your car batteries to skyrocket in price
[22:16:19] <Tom_itx> they've already gone up
[22:16:24] <Tom_itx> quite a bit
[22:16:59] <N2TOH> I haven't checked in a while, I used to bitch that the starting batteries for the Mercedes 300D were over priced even years ago
[22:17:08] <N1njaneer> At least more than 98% of lead in lead-acid (such as car) batteries are completely recycled.
[22:18:11] <N2TOH> the shut down has also had a secondary problem, the cost of lead based ammunition has gone ass over tea kettle
[22:18:25] <N1njaneer> Lead is arguably the most recycled metal out there by weight. If it weren't, the cost of batteries would be rediculous.
[22:18:52] <Tom_itx> N2TOH, not a good idea to use lead for that anyway... you know it's harmful to your health
[22:19:00] <N2TOH> check out the cost of a 500 round brick of .22LR
[22:19:24] <N1njaneer> Bullets are generally bad for your health as well when they're being shot at you :)
[22:19:39] <Tom_itx> wondered if anybody would pick up on that :D
[22:19:44] <N2TOH> yeah inbound hot lead is never a good thing
[22:19:53] <Tom_itx> dean!
[22:20:00] <abcminiuser> Ahoyhoy
[22:20:13] * N2TOH passes the rum
[22:20:18] <N1njaneer> Dean, make everything awesome with you Make Everything Awesome button!
[22:20:22] <N1njaneer> +your
[22:20:42] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, you back home nowdays?
[22:20:46] <abcminiuser> Button?
[22:20:52] <abcminiuser> Jupp, got back Sunday
[22:21:03] <abcminiuser> Just had a two day relax to re-adjust in the city
[22:21:04] <N1njaneer> Don't you have one of those?
[22:21:28] <abcminiuser> Should I?
[22:21:30] <N2TOH> so for that AVR on ISA card, what integrated peripherals should be included?
[22:28:48] <N1njaneer> abcminiuser: Shouldn't everyone? :D
[22:29:57] <abcminiuser> Indeed :P
[22:30:01] <abcminiuser> I have a new job it seems
[22:43:05] <Valen> abcminiuser: orly anything nifty?
[22:43:17] <abcminiuser> LIFX.co
[22:43:56] <Valen> contract role though i presume?
[22:44:06] <N2TOH> OK where is the "grow light" setting?
[22:50:05] <abcminiuser> Full time
[22:59:14] <w|zzy> Nice..
[22:59:22] <w|zzy> congrats abcminiuser
[22:59:41] <abcminiuser> Cheers :)
[22:59:49] <abcminiuser> 5 days without employment, a new record
[23:09:38] <Casper> abcminiuser: like that?
[23:10:21] <abcminiuser> Jupp
[23:10:37] <Casper> but beware, you may become addicted to it!
[23:12:37] <w|zzy> So... abcminiuser... when am I getting my light?
[23:12:49] <abcminiuser> Hah, I'm first
[23:12:58] <abcminiuser> Seems they literally can't make them fast enough
[23:13:31] <w|zzy> well I should be in the first or second batch from kick starter.
[23:14:30] <w|zzy> do you know what Wi-Fi module they went with?