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[02:07:35] <megal0maniac> Ah, here everyone is
[03:09:42] <megal0maniac> Well that was fun
[03:11:33] <megal0maniac> /afk
[09:36:08] <ROMA> who said i can not cut anything??
[09:36:10] <Guest4674> http://foto3.inbox.lv/rofedo/links/SPIvsMy.jpg
[09:36:12] <Guest4674> :D
[09:38:05] <Guest4674> i am so proud to myself that i could shit rainbows..
[09:40:09] <Guest4674> i think lower part with jumpers can be removed too..
[09:40:40] <Guest4674> jumpers is for beginers...XD
[09:50:29] <theBear> i said it !
[09:52:47] <Guest4674> cut the shaipes ore something like this :D
[09:53:21] <theBear> why do you have no name ? have some self respect
[09:53:47] <Guest4674> my nick is used by someone else
[09:54:09] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest4674: So choose another one
[09:54:13] <Guest4674> and i don't like to "make carrier"
[09:54:27] <Guest4674> i like talk to pupil like in first time :)
[09:54:41] <Guest4674> people i think is right
[09:54:48] <theBear> you talk like you haven't tried english before
[09:54:54] <Guest4674> yes
[09:54:58] <Guest4674> that is true
[09:55:01] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest4674: USB to SPI bridge?
[09:55:01] <theBear> pick a name
[09:55:03] <theBear> use it
[09:55:26] <Guest4674> megal0maniac_afk USB2SPI2nRF24L01
[09:55:55] <megal0maniac_afk> I'll take that as a yes
[09:56:14] <Guest4674> ok USB to nRF24L01 bridge megal0maniac_afk
[09:59:32] <megal0maniac_afk> Eugh. $13 for one of those boards
[10:00:04] <Guest4674> megal0maniac_afk do you know cheeper alternatives? i need spi with one CE pin
[10:00:25] <Guest4674> one extra output pin
[10:01:12] <Guest4674> that is miso, mosi, clk, SS, and one extra programable output pin
[10:05:22] <Guest4674> anyone knows technique of soldering these SMD chips in home?
[10:06:10] <Guest4674> they are soldered pin by pin or all pins in once? Or nobody mess up with this tiny work?
[10:07:55] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest4674: I don't know of cheaper alternatives, excpet for writing your own bridging firmware using a USB atmega. Or even a standard atmega with usb to serial (arduino nano clone)
[10:08:25] <megal0maniac_afk> And lots of people do smd at home, there are various methods for various types of components. Ask google
[10:08:43] <Guest4674> then i must use V-USB lib or something what i can not sell
[10:09:32] <Guest4674> and AVR with USB can't be certified because AVR is not USB complicant
[10:11:11] * Guest4674 remember that some AVRs was connectable with USB.. going to AVR homepage
[10:11:56] <megal0maniac_afk> AVR with usb is usb compliant
[10:12:09] <megal0maniac_afk> Like the atmega32u2 or 32u4
[10:12:30] <megal0maniac_afk> And I was talking about atmega328 with ftdi232 chip, not vusb
[10:16:57] <Guest4674> megal0maniac_afk that is SMD.. i was wondering how SMD is programmed? have smd chips some sort of holders?
[10:18:07] <megal0maniac_afk> For some packages. Otherwise they're programmed in circuit (ICSP = In Circuit Serial Programming)
[10:18:53] <Guest4674> that means than it is soldered to PBC plate and then soldered extra wires for programming and then removed extra wires?
[10:24:26] <Guest4674> ok bye all
[10:24:36] <Guest4674> it is very quite chan :)
[10:53:58] <DanFrederiksen> what's the easiest/cheapest way to sense temperature with an atmega? just a thermistor? doesn't need to be precise, just overheating warning
[10:56:58] <megal0maniac_afk> DanFrederiksen: Many atmegas have a built in temp sensor. Little known fact :)
[10:57:09] <megal0maniac_afk> Check for that first
[11:00:20] <megal0maniac_afk> Downside is that it
[11:00:42] <megal0maniac_afk> 's on chip, and you have to use the bandgap reference if you want to use the temp sensor
[11:01:50] <megal0maniac_afk> But if you aren't using ADC for anything else, or you can deal with using that reference, then it works quite nicely
[11:10:34] <ambro718> DanFrederiksen: Choose ADC pin, connect resistor R1 between ADC and Vcc, connect thermistor (defined with R0 and Beta) between ADC and Gnd. Formula: p=ADC/1024; Rtherm=R1*(p/(1-p)); Rinf=R0*exp(-Beta/298.15); Tkelvins=Beta/ln(Rtherm/Rinf)
[11:11:30] <ambro718> if you don't like doing this in FP on the AVR you can compute a lookup table. My table generator:
https://github.com/ambrop72/aprinter/blob/master/gen_avr_thermistor_table.py
[11:12:19] <DanFrederiksen> megal0maniac_afk, I guess that can serve as ambiemt temp but I need the heatsink/IGBTs
[11:13:04] <DanFrederiksen> ambro718, spanks
[11:13:25] <antto> naughty
[11:45:58] * Gerritjan is away (auto-away after 2hrs of inactivity) - (06:30 pm)
[11:51:42] <blathijs> Gerrit_away: Could you make your IRC client not spam (auto) away messages in this channel? Thanks!
[11:52:58] <blathijs> Gerrit_away: Uh, wait, I actually meant that for #arduino, though perhaps the more regular inhabitants of this channel will have the same opinion on away messages :-)
[11:55:32] * amee2k pees on a tree :3
[14:13:25] <beaky> helllo
[14:13:33] <inkjetunito> hullo
[14:13:38] <N1njAway> hallo
[14:13:38] <beaky> how do i select the 1.1v vref for my analog comparator
[14:13:49] <N1njAway> beaky: Read the datasheet? :)
[14:14:12] <N1njAway> It won't bite.
[14:14:16] <N1njAway> (hard)
[14:15:13] <N1njAway> See section caleed "Changing Channel or Reference Selection"
[14:15:17] <N1njAway> +called
[14:15:24] <beaky> ah thx
[14:15:57] <N1njAway> Generally it's MUX 11110 for the 1.1v bandgap reference
[14:16:10] <N1njAway> But double-check the datasheet for your specific device
[14:17:25] <beaky> is it a good idea to use the 1.1v vref
[14:17:49] <megal0maniac_afk> Hang on. Analog comparator or ADC?
[14:18:15] <beaky> analog comparator
[14:19:37] <N1njAway> Oh comparator :)
[14:19:40] <megal0maniac_afk> Ah, okay
[14:19:51] <N1njAway> The go to the Analog Comparator section of the datasheet
[14:20:12] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: Yeah, I have the answer but I'm not going to tell you
[14:20:28] <beaky> the answer is "not possible" ? :(
[14:20:35] <megal0maniac_afk> Wrong. Try again
[14:20:50] <beaky> okt he answer is ACSR |= (1<<SOMETHING);
[14:21:12] <N1njAway> Gotta flips the proper selections bits in RTFM0
[14:21:38] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: Also, much like PWM and SMPS, the 1.1V bandgap could be a wonderful or terrible idea depending on your application
[14:21:39] <N1njAway> ACSR |= (1 << RTFM) :D
[14:21:59] <megal0maniac_afk> And wrong again. SOMETHING not defined. First use in this (something)
[14:22:13] <beaky> ACSR |= (1 << ACBG);
[14:22:18] <beaky> it says bangap
[14:22:23] <megal0maniac_afk> There we go
[14:22:27] <megal0maniac_afk> 10 points for beaky
[14:22:32] <beaky> :D
[14:22:34] <N1njAway> Banned-Gap
[14:22:35] <megal0maniac_afk> Okay, 6 points
[14:22:39] <N1njAway> It is disallowed from use
[14:22:52] <beaky> ok why is it bad to use 1.1v vref
[14:23:11] <N1njAway> What are you comparing it to?
[14:23:17] <beaky> comparing it to a power signal
[14:23:22] <beaky> that is up to 30V
[14:23:42] <megal0maniac_afk> Well, there's your problem
[14:23:53] <megal0maniac_afk> Resistor divider or GTFO
[14:24:02] <megal0maniac_afk> Magic black smoke
[14:24:23] <beaky> yeah i have a voltage divider network and a buffer stage
[14:24:38] <beaky> im too careful to smoke any more avrs
[14:24:43] <N1njAway> Or an op-amp if impedence is a concern.
[14:25:31] <beaky> what is impedance
[14:25:53] <N1njAway> Make sure you use a long-stemmed hobbit pipe if you intend to smoke any more AVRs. It enhances the flavor.
[14:26:18] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky:
http://www.google.com/search?q=impedance
[14:27:00] <beaky> woah its complex stuff
[14:27:12] <megal0maniac_afk> Welcome to the world of electronics
[14:27:51] <beaky> i am too scared to leave the black box of my attiny and venture towards the world of EE i am a programer guy
[14:28:23] <beaky> avr is like a bastion of reason against a world of nonidealities
[14:28:39] <N1njAway> Then I would suggest only connecting VCC and GND to your ATTINY and leaving all other pins disconnected for ease of use.
[14:30:07] <N1njAway> Bastion was that guy from The Neverending Story, trying to save the child-like princess from The Nothingness.
[14:30:39] <beaky> right avr is my hero
[14:30:44] <megal0maniac_afk> PCF8574 is my friend
[14:30:49] <megal0maniac_afk> I love PCF8574
[14:31:02] <megal0maniac_afk> Although I dislike I2C
[14:31:14] * RikusW too
[14:31:22] <N1njAway> Sorry, the Childlike Empress
[14:31:33] <beaky> whats not to liek about i2c it is only 2 wires
[14:31:45] <megal0maniac_afk> Anyone know the number for 74 series non inverting buffer off the top of their head?
[14:31:50] <RikusW> complex protocol
[14:31:53] <beaky> 7400?
[14:32:09] <RikusW> 74245
[14:32:14] <RikusW> thats 3state
[14:32:31] <RikusW> 74LS245 (HC for AVR)
[14:32:54] <RikusW> or AHC for the new fast ones
[14:32:58] <megal0maniac_afk> Ooh, nice to know. I just want it for the 8574. It doesn't provide much current
[14:33:14] <RikusW> 74244 is bidirectional
[14:33:43] <N1njAway> 74125 would also do you
[14:33:44] <RikusW> maybe google 74 ttl series
[14:33:55] <megal0maniac_afk> Lol I am
[14:34:04] <megal0maniac_afk> bidirectional is good though
[14:34:13] <N1njAway> I use 74LVX125's for level-shifting regularly
[14:34:25] <RikusW> though there is a select pin and its for all the bits
[14:34:40] <beaky> btw what happens if i dont have a for(;;) in my avr
[14:34:40] <beaky> in my avr firmware*
[14:34:40] <beaky> will the avr just crash? or is there defined behavior
[14:34:50] <megal0maniac_afk> It stops
[14:34:53] <beaky> ah
[14:34:58] <megal0maniac_afk> I think?
[14:35:07] <RikusW> iirc it resets
[14:35:11] <N1njAway> I like while(1);
[14:35:27] <megal0maniac_afk> Me too
[14:35:34] <N1njAway> Technically I believe it just runs through flash memory until it wraps around to reset vector.
[14:35:34] * RikusW suggests next: goto next; :-D
[14:35:39] <beaky> i like for(;;) because the ;; looks like cute spider teeth
[14:36:39] <N1njAway> Code should always look like something arbitrarily interesting.
[14:36:45] <megal0maniac_afk> RikusW:
http://xkcd.com/292/
[14:37:08] <N1njAway> And that is why you don't ever use goto
[14:37:17] <RikusW> lol
[14:37:32] <megal0maniac_afk> Because dinosaurs
[14:37:36] <megal0maniac_afk> Obviously?
[14:37:58] * RikusW wasn't academically indoctrinated to have such a prejudice against goto's :-D
[14:38:08] <megal0maniac_afk> I was
[14:38:10] <RikusW> though I don't use it often
[14:38:24] <megal0maniac_afk> If we use goto or global variable, we fail immediately
[14:38:29] <RikusW> why do the uni dislike it that much ?
[14:38:47] <RikusW> and whats so bad about a few globals ?
[14:38:47] <N1njAway> Optionally you can also do
http://imgur.com/sggIZd3
[14:38:56] <RikusW> (if used carefully...)
[14:39:04] <beaky> globals are a necessity
[14:39:09] <beaky> because isrs
[14:39:34] <N1njAway> Rikus: For embedded stuff, not generally a problem. For large-scale software engineering, one side-effect is that they can cause large projects to need recompiling of hundreds of thousands of source files with one line change, which is bad :)
[14:39:53] <RikusW> hmm
[14:40:00] <megal0maniac_afk> Yeah we weren't focussing on embedded
[14:40:06] <megal0maniac_afk> All in the box stuff
[14:40:16] <N1njAway> They clutter the namespace, the cause undue amounts of dependency linkage, and a whole host of other maintainability problems.
[14:40:30] <RikusW> global isn't thread safe either... unless used with great care...
[14:41:02] <N1njAway> For large-scale stuff, if you absolutely need to use the equivalent of a global variable, the best alternative is generally to use singletons or classes that internally offer such functionality via static members.
[14:41:30] <megal0maniac_afk> Getters and setter
[14:41:31] <megal0maniac_afk> s
[14:41:50] <RikusW> that sounds like COM/OLE
[14:42:17] <N1njAway> Kind of I suppose
[14:42:25] <jerkey> beaky impedance just means how sensitive a power source is to current draw (in this context) so for example if you had a 30v signal that would be pulled down by your resistor divider, it is high impedance and you need an opamp to measure it
[14:43:09] <jerkey> if you have a car battery, it is low impedance, because its voltage is less affected by current
[14:43:28] <RikusW> aka low internal resistance
[14:43:37] <beaky> so higher impedance = bad?
[14:43:51] <RikusW> == higher losses
[14:44:08] <jerkey> a transformer (60hz) wall-wart is a high impedance power source.. with no current draw its voltage is more than 2x the labeled voltage
[14:44:44] <beaky> why would i need a bufer after a resistor divider
[14:44:44] <RikusW> another interesting thing is that there is optimal power transfer when source and load impedance is the same
[14:45:05] <RikusW> the comparator is a buffer btw
[14:45:10] <jerkey> beaky its not good or bad, it just is what it is. low impedance power sources like switching supplies are good because they are predictable... always the same voltage.
[14:46:26] <jerkey> beaky you dont need a buffer after the resistor divider but before. the avr input is high impedance but the resistor divider might not be.. depends how high is high
[14:47:36] <beaky> my resistors are in megaohms
[14:47:37] <megal0maniac_afk> RikusW: Which is why there's impedance matching in amplifiers (using buffers)
[14:48:05] <jerkey> if you use a resistor divider of 1ohm / 5ohm you will short out whatever youre measuring with 6ohms. if you use megaohms instead, its a different story but the impedance of the avr could have a role in that scenario...
[14:48:07] <RikusW> especially RF...
[14:48:25] <beaky> i wish i could directly hook 30V to AIN
[14:48:36] <Tom_itx> i bet you do
[14:48:36] <N1njAway> RikusW:
http://www.amazon.com/Large-Scale-Software-Design-John-Lakos/dp/0201633620 is an excellent book that very well details why certain principles are used in software design, specifically when you are dealing with massively scaled architectures.
[14:48:38] <beaky> no need to mess with resistor dividers and impedance matching and buffers and mumbo jumbo
[14:48:46] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: You can
[14:48:50] * RikusW stands back to watch some fireworks :-D
[14:48:53] <Tom_itx> for a short time
[14:49:05] <jerkey> beaky its fine! use a 100k and 1M divider and you are fine!
[14:49:41] <Tom_itx> you want to choose the divider so that it covers the sample range you are working with
[14:49:45] <jerkey> you will see 1/11th of the voltage at the pin
[14:50:04] <megal0maniac_afk> Maybe a zener for safe measure
[14:50:06] <N1njAway> a / a+b :)
[14:50:34] <N1njAway> megal0maniac_afk: Possibly some dancing girls, too, to keep it entertained when idle
[14:51:03] <beaky> why not just use a LDO regulator instead of a resistor divider netowrk
[14:51:21] <megal0maniac_afk> N1njAway: I've found that the AVR is reluctant to reset when you introduce entertainment
[14:51:37] <beaky> btw is the tiny85 the only avr with internal pll
[14:51:51] <beaky> i like it but it is too tiny i need more pins to blink some leds
[14:51:54] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: No it isn't
[14:52:01] <megal0maniac_afk> 32u2 has pll for usb
[14:52:04] <N1njAway> megal0maniac_afk: Gotta hook the secret FUN_VECTOR interrupt
[14:52:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Needs 48mhz
[14:52:37] <N1njAway> 32u4, too
[14:52:52] <N1njAway> Actually all of the devices that have USB functionality.
[14:53:05] <megal0maniac_afk> Well, yeah
[14:53:06] <beaky> ok i will buy atxmega
[14:53:20] <beaky> the worlds greatest 8bit mcu
[14:53:20] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: Buy an LM741 first
[14:53:30] <beaky> lm741? why
[14:53:35] <megal0maniac_afk> I don't know
[14:53:43] <megal0maniac_afk> It has impedance
[14:54:00] <beaky> hmm i have two ua741s in my electronicsbox
[14:54:25] <N1njAway> Hook them together to build a 1482!
[14:58:26] <carabia> poor waller :(
[14:58:29] <carabia> wallet
[14:58:57] <carabia> 10e for 644-20
[14:58:59] <carabia> :(
[14:59:45] <megal0maniac_afk> You're clearly in the wrong country
[15:00:22] <megal0maniac_afk> Even here I paid ~7e for 1284
[15:03:16] <carabia> yes i totally am...
[15:03:51] <carabia> 10€ for 644, 15e for a 20x4 lcd... gosh
[15:04:25] <megal0maniac_afk> And I'm in Africa :D
[15:04:35] <megal0maniac_afk> I like saying that
[15:04:47] <beaky> wow
[15:05:05] <carabia> beaky where you from
[15:05:06] <beaky> here i pay 25 bucks for arduino
[15:05:14] <beaky> im from united arba emitates
[15:05:26] <carabia> oh well. prices could be higher. you fucking arabs got oil
[15:05:30] <beaky> 25 bucks for the ATmega328 itself
[15:05:46] <beaky> haha i wish i walked into the store in my shorts and ripped shirt
[15:06:00] <carabia> heh
[15:06:22] <OndraSter__> carabia, not every arab has oil :D
[15:06:25] <OndraSter__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcuAw77J8_Y :D
[15:06:44] <carabia> heh
[15:07:11] <carabia> Well. Maybe I can go pick up my stuff today so i can finish my build over the weekend...
[15:07:16] <carabia> I mean, tomorrow
[15:08:01] <carabia> After quite a few years i'm only now starting to really really like smps-es \:D/
[15:08:15] <carabia> smpsses
[15:08:16] <beaky> wow you are making a smps too?
[15:08:30] <carabia> no. i'm not making a god damn avr smps
[15:08:40] <beaky> D:
[15:08:49] <beaky> whats wrong with an avr smps :D
[15:09:01] <carabia> well. it's really not practical for anything
[15:11:39] <megal0maniac_afk> And there go beaky's hopes and dreams...
[15:16:50] <carabia> So
[15:17:06] <beaky> :(
[15:17:37] <carabia> does anyone have any clue about the phone "quick chargers"? Do they even do 1C?
[15:18:15] <carabia> i suspect not since the batteries are getting quite big
[15:18:27] <carabia> which is very retarded in a sense
[15:21:38] <megal0maniac_afk> What IS retarded, is a textbook published in 2009 which talks about ISA and USB supporting "up to 12Mbps"
[15:22:22] <carabia> what is retarded, are computers
[15:22:25] <carabia> period
[15:22:48] <carabia> actually, no. computers are okay. software ppl are retarded
[15:23:09] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: Don't listen to him
[15:23:15] <carabia> especially here in freenode every software engineer, which is like +90%
[15:23:50] <carabia> always take some case in point of "bad coding", and ramble on about how they could "make it so much better"
[15:24:16] <carabia> I wonder, into which black hole, all of that awesome software then vanishes
[15:24:40] <megal0maniac_afk> Armchair programmers, yo. It's a thing
[15:24:52] <carabia> Armchair * = freenode
[15:26:15] <beaky> lol
[15:27:11] <OndraSter__> haha
[15:27:11] <OndraSter__> I hate those people
[15:28:26] <carabia> who doesn't. They're everywhere. But out of all places here, #electronics has to be the all time low
[15:28:40] <beaky> lol
[15:29:46] <carabia> it's just filled with some people who figured out what sparkfun is, gets some avrs, sts or pics and figures "okay, now i've got this. How can i get my node.js or fucking ruby on rails on this"
[15:30:14] <carabia> "i wonder if i can program my soldering iron with python"
[15:30:46] <OndraSter> haha
[15:30:49] <inkjetunito> you can if you cloud and twitter
[15:30:59] <carabia> yes and facebook
[15:31:07] <carabia> instagram, and tumblr also. important
[15:31:16] <carabia> you can put some cool filters on your arduino
[15:31:33] <carabia> arduino is the worst. enabling this cluelessness
[15:31:45] <inkjetunito> there's a beaglebone on my arduino
[15:31:50] <N1njAway> carabia: I only speak about things I have direct experience with, but my take is that most advice is often highly situational-dependent, so it may or may not apply across the board. :)
[15:31:50] <N1njAway> At the end of the day, it's about accomplishing the goal moreso than how you get to it. There are generally multiple paths, and some have better theoretical merits and tradeoffs that may or may not apply to a given situation.
[15:32:14] <carabia> this is true
[15:33:07] <N1njAway> But at least in my situation, I can point to a hundred different things I've engineered that are out an in use in the world, and tell you why I chose to do them a certain way. But the other key part is that I can also tell you exactly what all of the shortcomings are of any particular method that was used, how I could consider improving, and why I do or don't consider it important :)
[15:33:08] <N1njAway> carabia: Yeah, there's a lot of that for sure.
[15:33:19] <N1njAway> It's very much the thinking along the lines of "Well, I bought a car and learned how to drive it. That immediately qualifies me to know everything there is to know about designing engines."
[15:33:53] <N1njAway> However, the philosophy I generally take on it is this --
[15:33:55] <carabia> Surely
[15:34:42] <carabia> As i'm an idealist, however also a pessimist. In my ideal world, people would be intrigued to find things out rather than be degenerate and just use them as-is
[15:36:25] <carabia> as it seems that "boredom" is the new disease. Rather hang in facebook or some other nonsensical garbage than doing something constructive, at least once in a while...
[15:36:55] <N1njAway> There is no faster way to spot someone who doesn't know what he's doing, is when he is spouting his mouth off trying to impress people. Unfortunately he doesn't realize he is in the presence of experts far more experienced than him. If he hadn't opened his mouth and immediately made everyone realize how little he knows, rather than the opposite effect keeping quiet, there wouldn't be an immediate
[15:36:56] <N1njAway> lack of respect for said individual. And likely more willingness to help him learn.
[15:37:20] <N1njAway> I apply that filter a lot.
[15:38:21] <carabia> seems reasonable
[15:38:23] <N1njAway> I have experience with certain things, but I don't have the need to try to impress people by running my mouth off, especially about things I know nothing about. I've learned that people tend to respect you a lot more when you are there to quietly assist people who are genuinely working to learn.
[15:39:16] <N1njAway> It's important to find the ones who genuinely ARE worth your time in trying to assist, and not wasting a moment's breath on those who aren't. Easier to just sit back, smile, and watch certain people make fools of themselves.
[15:39:26] <carabia> that's good, but it's a bit besides my original point. But yeah then again you're right
[15:39:46] <N1njAway> But yes, I share all of your frustrations wholeheartedly.
[15:40:07] <megal0maniac_afk> :)
[15:40:10] <N1njAway> I think Arduino is a great, low-overhead way for people to get started learning this stuff
[15:40:23] <N1njAway> But people need to be realistic about it.
[15:40:34] <megal0maniac_afk> My first purchase was an arduino uno and an ISP programmer
[15:40:50] <megal0maniac_afk> Was a great stepping stone, personally
[15:41:03] <carabia> you sir, put it in such beautiful words and with such an elegance, hats off to you sir
[15:41:20] <N1njAway> If it was the end-all be-all bee's-knees, the entire commercial world would be developing everything as Arduino. It's not that. It never will be. And eventually you will hit the glass-ceiling and realize that you need to learn a LOT more in order to transcend it.
[15:41:32] <megal0maniac_afk> Then I wanted to dig deeper and here I am :)
[15:41:34] <N1njAway> Thanks :)
[15:42:00] <N1njAway> Which is why I think folks like megal0maniac_afk are doing it the Right Way. :)
[15:43:17] <N1njAway> And the beauty of Arduino is that it's an overlay on top of a VERY capable MCU family. You can always use the Arduino hardware to prototype, but just target the AVR directly and get deep down with the metal in ways you just really can't do with Arduino's convenience layers.
[15:43:46] <carabia> I guess. My philosophy for learning has always been a bit, unorthodox I think, that's why I tend not to learn things like so. But i'm glad it works for other people
[15:43:47] <N1njAway> Anyways.
[15:43:52] * N1njAway puts the soapbox away
[15:45:14] <N1njAway> I think many of us AVR people are pissed about Arduino primarily because it's such simple and popular now, and we get stuck in a "Damn, *I* should have done that!" rut. Because we tend to think about the needs of things based on our OWN capabilities, not necessarily enabling the capabilites of others.
[15:45:29] <N1njAway> simple +stuff
[15:45:55] <carabia> yeah I think that's exactly it :D
[15:47:00] <N1njAway> On the AVR side, WE have to learn how to set everything up in the low-level registers and understand what's going on when you configure a timer and ISR and stuff. Arduino people go "Oh that's too complicated! I just call SetUpSerialPort(19200) and SendShitToSerialPort("Whee data!") and it all just works!! I'm so much more superior!"
[15:47:01] <megal0maniac_afk> I think some people also find it undermines the skill required to do even basic stuff with a microcontroller, when clueless "makers" throw together some firmware
[15:47:19] <megal0maniac_afk> Yes, that
[15:47:21] <carabia> It's a bit like when I first started RC planes, they were balsa and glass-fiber construction, hard to repair, gas engines. Now, it's lightweight foam and electric motors. :)
[15:47:48] <N1njAway> But when you need to do anything just SLIGHTLY outside the realm of what the convenience libraries will let you do, you are totally and utterly boned by the glass ceiling effect.
[15:48:15] <carabia> yup
[15:48:28] <N1njAway> Because transcending those limitations are what require the real skill. And most people have too short an attention span.
[15:49:05] <N1njAway> Mostly I think what bothers me the attitude some people have about it.
[15:49:10] <N1njAway> me +is
[15:50:05] <N1njAway> carabia: But it's exactly what you said about "OMG you idiot just use Ruby On Rails! It does everything! Why are you writing C code for that? LOLOL! I'm so much better."
[15:50:39] <N1njAway> The higher level tools there take care of specific needs and purposes, but they have major limitations that are traded for ease of use.
[15:51:37] <megal0maniac_afk> Which is why they made the Due with massive flash and ram :D
[15:54:32] <carabia> haha
[15:55:29] <megal0maniac_afk> "The main reason why Iduino Due has pins for external programmer is to make more innovation. User may need other ways to programming it, such as programming wirelessly, or through Internet"
[15:55:40] <megal0maniac_afk> I love these guys
[15:56:37] <megal0maniac_afk> Okay goodnight all. I have some sleep to catch, then an exam to kill :D
[15:56:46] * megal0maniac_afk goes afk
[15:58:19] <OndraSter> nn
[15:58:32] <carabia> nn
[17:21:38] <Duality> hey
[17:22:01] <Tom_itx> yeah so?
[17:22:36] <Duality> I am using usbasp, I just upgraded the firmware before I upgraded didn't have to specify a -B option, after I have to set -B and it works with -B 4 any ideas why ?
[17:22:59] <Tom_itx> something changed in the firmware?
[17:23:17] <Tom_itx> B adds delay
[17:38:30] <jerkey> xark casper N1njAway regarding the 262106 byte read from the atmega2560 device, I read it with an arduino-as-ISP, and i found three links showing the same number with a google search of "262106 atmega2560"
[17:40:05] <jerkey> the person in the third result is _writing_ an atmega2560 using a "USBasp" programmer. I was _reading_ with a arduino-as-ISP
