#avr | Logs for 2013-11-10

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[00:52:37] <megal0maniac_afk> Fornaxian: It's still there: http://distribute.atmel.no/marcom/techlib/Techlib_January_2013.rar
[02:33:01] <Roklobsta> anyone mess with zigbits much?
[06:38:50] <Fornaxian> megal0maniac_afk, thanks...
[07:03:36] <Raazeer> hi all!
[07:04:18] <Fornaxian> morning Raazeer
[07:04:19] <Raazeer> I could use some help with avra, in case anyone has any experience with that, and yes, I'm on 1.3.0 by now
[07:04:33] <Raazeer> morning Fornaxian!
[07:04:43] <Fornaxian> ask the question and someone might answer.
[07:05:06] <Raazeer> the man page of avra tells about the option '--includedir' but avra says 'unknown option'
[07:05:19] <Raazeer> might it be that the whole of avra is a little meschigge?
[07:05:34] <Fornaxian> installing it now to see.
[07:06:03] <Fornaxian> it exists on 1.2.3
[07:06:14] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, in case you happen to be on debian, don't bother, they are still on 1.2.3. there avra complains about the include files it has been packaged with
[07:06:25] <Fornaxian> hehe.
[07:06:29] <Fornaxian> yeah, debian here.
[07:06:40] <Fornaxian> I don't use avra generally...I stick with avr-gcc
[07:07:14] <Fornaxian> have you done an "avra --help" ??
[07:07:15] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, It so happens I already know avrasm and I was too lazy to brush up on my gnu asm just for the sake of it.
[07:07:20] <Fornaxian> see if the option is there.
[07:07:46] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, thanks for helping me see how much of an idiot I am.
[07:08:09] <Raazeer> I pasted the 1.3.0 binary over the package install but forgot to update the man page.
[07:08:15] <Fornaxian> oops.
[07:08:16] <Fornaxian> hehe
[07:08:44] <Fornaxian> am downloading the latest now.
[07:08:48] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, did I mention the make construct shipped with the avra source is fubar?
[07:09:19] <Raazeer> btw, don't bother with their 'Build' script except for reference.
[07:09:22] <Fornaxian> I'll play with it...but, thanks.
[07:09:45] <Raazeer> just 'cd ./src && make -f makefiles/Linux.make all'
[07:09:52] <Fornaxian> looks like they have an i386 binary package too.
[07:10:01] <Raazeer> Oo they do?
[07:10:07] <Fornaxian> http://sourceforge.net/projects/avra/files/1.3.0/
[07:10:11] * Raazeer is checking the sourceforge site again...
[07:11:28] <Fornaxian> my download of avr techlib is slowing everything else down...hehe
[07:11:43] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, so you found it after all?
[07:11:55] <Fornaxian> megal0maniac_afk had a link.
[07:11:56] <Raazeer> hm, no man page here, so the debian guys added that...
[07:12:03] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, gimmeeeeee
[07:12:13] <Fornaxian> it's january 2013 version but newer than I have already.
[07:12:20] <Fornaxian> http://distribute.atmel.no/marcom/techlib/Techlib_January_2013.rar
[07:12:26] <Fornaxian> 6.7GB
[07:12:56] <Raazeer> Norway, huh?
[07:13:05] <Fornaxian> that's where atmel is based.
[07:13:32] <Raazeer> hm, didn't know that.
[07:14:03] <Raazeer> on the other hand it's kinda obvious, they are a western european company and they're not based in the US or we'd be drowning in export restriction paperwork
[07:14:43] <Raazeer> I just heartbrokenly resolved to send back a TI stellaris launchpad because they wouldn't let me download software unless I founded a company
[07:15:06] <Raazeer> Boy did I want that chip...
[07:15:22] <twnqx> eh
[07:15:35] <twnqx> downloading that in .de was no issue whatsoever
[07:16:03] <twnqx> also, full linux OSS toolchain
[07:16:14] <Fornaxian> have no problem here,,,but I live in the USA.
[07:16:15] <twnqx> up to flashing
[07:16:19] <specing> Raazeer: lol? I could download it without problems
[07:16:27] <specing> and I am in europe
[07:16:53] <Raazeer> specing, I'm talking about the TI stellarisware crap
[07:16:59] <Raazeer> are you?
[07:17:14] <specing> stellarisware is that library, right?
[07:18:04] <Raazeer> specing, right
[07:18:33] <Raazeer> so how did you do it?
[07:19:05] <specing> looking
[07:19:16] <Raazeer> (I haven't sent it out yet and I'd really like to have my own ARM chip)
[07:20:21] <twnqx> use Independent Designer as company
[07:20:23] <twnqx> works4me
[07:20:35] <Raazeer> twnqx, I'll see what it does
[07:20:59] <specing> Raazeer: just request the download, I think I put something bogus in company name
[07:21:06] <Raazeer> (among others it will probably bring the US three-letters down on me, but then that's nothing new.)
[07:21:13] <specing> For downloaded software, you will receive an e-mail within 24-48 business hours that includes the availability date for your software purchase. Once the software is ready to be download, you will receive a second email with a link and your access code. Your credit card will not be charged until you are granted access.
[07:21:30] <twnqx> You have been approved to receive this Software.
[07:21:30] <twnqx> Click "Download" to proceed.
[07:21:30] <twnqx> In a few moments, you will also receive an email with the link to this file.
[07:21:40] <Raazeer> ok. I'll try again
[07:21:44] <twnqx> and fuck, i am in china atm :P though my proxy is in germany
[07:22:04] <specing> twnqx: what are you doing in china?
[07:22:07] <Raazeer> always fun to stick it to those isolationist bureocratic microbes
[07:22:11] <twnqx> consulting work
[07:22:15] <specing> 0.o
[07:22:25] <twnqx> (and shopping)
[07:22:26] <specing> twnqx: where in china are you?
[07:22:30] <twnqx> shenzen
[07:22:30] <specing> lol shopping
[07:22:41] <specing> met that australian?
[07:22:43] <Raazeer> specing, seems a bit extreme just to get proper chinese food, isn't it?
[07:22:59] <specing> Raazeer: shopping for electronics, lol
[07:23:06] <Raazeer> btw twnqx how did you like the _real_ chinese cuisine?
[07:23:19] <twnqx> not spicy enough
[07:26:29] <twnqx> and yes, i am too western for some of the stuff
[07:27:15] <Raazeer> twnqx, like ducks feet and stuff?
[07:27:43] <twnqx> chicken feet i already had in germany
[07:27:59] <Raazeer> twnqx, where in germany do you hail from?
[07:28:08] <twnqx> normally hannover
[07:28:24] <twnqx> but travelling quite a bit
[07:28:26] <Raazeer> wtd, they serve _chicken feet_ over in hannover?
[07:28:37] <twnqx> if you know where
[07:28:44] <Raazeer> not sure I want to
[07:28:47] <twnqx> but i had them in munich
[07:29:21] <Raazeer> twnqx, that I believe, there's a reason the bavarians are so close to barbarians in their english name
[07:29:35] <twnqx> as long as it's deep fried and spicy... it's not that much if a problem
[07:29:36] <Raazeer> all the culture they have comes from us franks
[07:30:15] <Raazeer> twnqx, nothing is a problem if it's deep-fried and spicy. and if you blank out of your mind what it really is.
[07:30:39] <twnqx> i had no problem with sheep brain when i was with a few lebanese guys in riyadh
[07:31:17] <twnqx> the stomach pieces on friday were neither spicey nor deep fried, still acceptable
[07:31:26] <Raazeer> twnqx, let's talk avr-asm, I'm scheduled to have lunch in half an hour.
[07:31:29] <twnqx> :D
[07:32:34] <Raazeer> kutteln and brains are easily the body parts I find most nauseating in any animaly
[07:33:14] * Fornaxian maked fried porkchops yesterday for his birfday lunchy.....
[07:33:32] <Fornaxian> had to cook my own birthday meal....poor me..
[07:33:36] <Fornaxian> but damn was it good.
[07:33:45] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, cooking is fun
[07:33:53] <Fornaxian> yup.
[07:33:59] <Fornaxian> it's like chemistry for the tummy.
[07:34:01] <twnqx> eating is better
[07:34:09] * twnqx got a birthday cake from the hotel today
[07:34:13] <Fornaxian> gotta eat while cooking...and afterwards.
[07:34:30] <Raazeer> ok, so I can turn the damned LED on or off, but I can't make the bleeding counter run.
[07:35:55] <Raazeer> http://pastebin.ca/2475189 here, see if you can spot where I went wrong. Probably I have to set something in TCCR0A.
[07:36:05] <Fornaxian> http://www.avr-asm-tutorial.net/avr_en/ Raazeer, awesome, if somewhat old, avr assembly tutorial.
[07:37:33] <Fornaxian> ok..forget that...doesn't talk about timers anywhere there...
[07:37:53] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, that's ok, it talks about interrupts
[07:38:02] <Fornaxian> it does at that.
[07:38:11] <Raazeer> say, the interrupt-enable bit doesn't get cleared when an interrupt triggers, does it?
[07:38:17] <Fornaxian> that was my first intro to avr assembly many moons ago.
[07:38:53] <Fornaxian> umm....not sure....I do so little with interrupts.
[07:40:07] <Fornaxian> and, I'm outta here..going to the workshop to build something.
[07:40:10] <Raazeer> Fornaxian, I'm not a big asm programmer, and a bit rusty besides. It's probably something really trivial, but I'll be damned if I can find where...
[07:42:32] <Valen> Fornaxian: I'm going to bed shortly sorry also I dont know ASM from my elbow, but if you hit me up in ~10 hours or so I may be able to help ;->
[07:44:03] <Valen> though I found this, its a chunk of timer setup stuff , dont take the comments as gospel but they may be close http://pastebin.ca/2475192
[07:46:59] <Raazeer> Valen, thanks every little bit helps
[07:47:14] <Raazeer> seems the 16-bit counters work totally different from the 8-bit I'm used to
[07:47:36] <OndraSter_> lies
[07:48:02] <Raazeer> OndraSter_, almost completely but not _totally_ different then?
[07:48:13] <OndraSter_> they are identical, but they have 16bits instead of 8
[07:49:01] <Raazeer> OndraSter_, I can tell you one important difference right away: the 8-bit seem to use TCCR0 while the 16-bit seem to use TCCR0A and TCCR0B, with B being mostly the equivalent of TCCR0 in an 8-bit
[07:49:09] <Raazeer> but I may be totally mistaken in that
[07:49:22] <Raazeer> if so, please do not hesitate to set my stupid head straight
[07:51:25] <OndraSter_> I don't see any differences other than that you count upto 65535 instead of 255
[07:51:25] <OndraSter_> maybe they have extra mods
[07:52:21] <Raazeer> OndraSter_, well that leaves the point that a program written for one will not assemble nor work on a chip that has the other layout ;)
[07:52:59] <Raazeer> also maybe I should actually _read_ those datasheets instead of bulling straight in and only consulting them after I got my horns stuck in something...
[07:54:25] <OndraSter_> which chip?
[07:54:32] <OndraSter_> they are 16bit to start with, it wouldn't work either ;)
[07:54:59] <Raazeer> OndraSter_, I'm still on the attiny13, trying to make the timer blink a led
[07:55:16] <Raazeer> which is kinda embarrassing, since once I wrote quite a mean line of asm
[07:59:17] <OndraSter_> well then
[07:59:17] <OndraSter_> attinies are not much compatible
[07:59:17] <OndraSter_> compared to different chips
[07:59:21] <OndraSter_> mostly because they differ in peripherals one too much
[07:59:44] <Raazeer> OndraSter_, do you consider timers peripherals then?
[08:02:58] <OndraSter_> everything is peripheral other than the core
[08:03:43] <Raazeer> OndraSter_, ok. that seems to be in line with atmel's reasoning
[08:04:07] <Raazeer> guess I better get used to that when I want to play with atmel's toys, right?
[08:04:58] <OndraSter_> with any microcontrollers
[08:21:53] <tzanger> man, trying to design in encryption is hard
[08:21:59] <tzanger> I've got a radio network using little 8 bit micros that I want to encrypt. doesn't ahve to be mil-grade but sufficient to keep casual attackers out
[08:22:04] <tzanger> I was going to use RC4 since it's simple, memory light and reasonably strong as long as I don't fall into the same problems as WEP did
[08:22:08] <tzanger> but those problems are really easy to hit, even knowing about them
[08:22:16] <tzanger> also trying to use a stream cipher in a lossy network is challenging because without causing a lot of network chatter you can't tell if the other end got the message and thus know that you can modify the IV/nonce
[08:22:23] <tzanger> same with the MAC part; i was going to attach a CRC16 of the plaintext and encrypt it along with the rest of the plaintext thinking that that was reasonably secure, but that's not helpful as that's exactly what WEP did for a MAC and it was broken relatively easily
[09:06:13] <megal0maniac_afk> tzanger: Can you use block ciphers for that kind of stuff?
[09:06:43] <megal0maniac_afk> Eh.. brb
[09:24:10] <megal0maniac_afk> Any Linux wizards feel like practising their bash skills and sparing a minute? :)
[09:24:31] <megal0maniac_afk> It'll literally be a minute if you know what you're doing, I think
[09:28:05] <Fornaxian> what'sup megal0maniac ?
[09:30:52] <megal0maniac> Fornaxian: One sec, I think i might have figured it out...
[09:35:34] <Fornaxian> 3.5 of 6.7 GB down so far.
[09:35:58] <Fornaxian> not the fastest connection in the world but at least it's rock solid stable.
[09:36:13] <Fornaxian> fiber to the house and I get 3MB/s connection..
[09:36:22] <Fornaxian> could get 10 if I wanted to pay the extra but don't need it usually.
[09:37:49] <megal0maniac> Heh :P
[09:38:07] <megal0maniac> 1mbps dsl, which is why I have a box to do the dirty work for me while I sleep
[09:38:42] <malinus> I know this isn't exactly the channel for it. But I know many of you guys also have small dev-computers. I'm about to buy a raspi, but are there other interesting alternatives in the same price-range?
[09:39:00] <megal0maniac> malinus: Beaglebone Black is a cool alternative
[09:39:13] <megal0maniac> I have a Seagate Dockstar, but that's more of a hacked consumer device
[09:39:49] <megal0maniac> Fornaxian: Consider this pseudocode :P How can I make it work? I don't understand bash scripting at all, but it should be clear what I'm trying to achieve http://pastebin.com/AJPxvQHn
[09:42:39] <malinus> Yeah the beaglebone looks neat
[09:47:39] <Fornaxian> just a min..opening now.
[09:48:16] <megal0maniac> Fornaxian: Considering cron to trigger the script every minute
[09:48:28] <Fornaxian> malinus, I use a couple of little acer aspire one 10.1 inch netbooks.
[09:48:52] <malinus> Fornaxian, they are not even close the price of a raspi though. like 3x the price at least
[09:49:09] <Fornaxian> got two of them for 10 bucks each a month ago.
[09:49:09] <megal0maniac> malinus: Not the black
[09:49:30] <malinus> Fornaxian, you were just lucky to make a deal then.
[09:49:38] <Fornaxian> ebay rocks.
[09:50:51] <malinus> that's true. Where else could you get your 1$ avr's?
[09:51:39] <OndraSter_> <Fornaxian> got two of them for 10 bucks each a month ago.
[09:51:40] <OndraSter_> WOAH
[09:51:42] <OndraSter_> teach me master
[09:52:20] <malinus> Fornaxian, you payed less for two computers, then the cost of a arduino
[09:52:32] <Fornaxian> keep eyes open..people will sell crap for way too much and good stuff for crap.
[09:52:48] <OndraSter_> I presume you are US based?
[09:52:52] <Fornaxian> yup.
[09:52:56] <OndraSter_> that explains
[09:53:01] <OndraSter_> I would pay $10 just for shipping. Of each.
[09:53:08] <megal0maniac> "Might not ship to South Africa" on most of the good stuff
[09:53:18] <OndraSter_> better than Italy, nobody ships there megal0maniac :D
[09:53:19] <megal0maniac> And "Might not" == "not"
[09:56:54] <Fornaxian> megal0maniac, no clue why it's not working...giving me all kinds of errors.
[09:58:41] <Fornaxian> best I'm seeing right now for aspire one on ebay is 35 dollars.'
[10:05:33] <Fornaxian> megal0maniac, something in the if statement.
[10:14:32] <Fornaxian> megal0maniac, it's really strange... != works but < and > do not.
[10:15:11] <Fornaxian> and you can't use -lt, -gt, or any of those because they are integer only.
[10:15:16] <Fornaxian> so, I'm stumped.
[10:15:24] <megal0maniac> I've fixed it, it seems :P
[10:15:35] <megal0maniac> You can't compare like that in bash
[10:16:19] <megal0maniac> This works http://pastebin.com/AJPxvQHn
[10:17:24] <Fornaxian> http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/sect_07_01.html according to this you can,,,but it doesn't work.
[10:20:04] <timemage> megal0maniac, i sort of missed the saga. can't compare like what in bash?
[10:20:20] <megal0maniac> timemage: Two floats
[10:20:35] <megal0maniac> In this case, load average and a threshold
[10:20:55] <timemage> megal0maniac, ah. yeah. really there's just a lack of float support altogether. you can cheat and use some fixed point arithmetic though.
[10:20:55] <megal0maniac> Fornaxian: Code works perfectly :) cron is running it once a minute
[10:21:17] <megal0maniac> timemage: If you check the pastebin link, you'll see I'm using bc instead
[10:21:26] <timemage> megal0maniac, i did find the link.
[10:23:04] <timemage> megal0maniac, if the loadavg is always specified to two decimal point, you could use something like tr -d '.' to remove the dot and proceed using a normal bash integral comparison. seeing as though you have a working solution, i wouldn't bother. not unless you expect bc to not be installed.
[10:24:22] <megal0maniac> It's specific to this box, so now I'm too scared to touch it :)
[10:25:29] <megal0maniac> But, as usual, I shall keep it in mind for future. Bash scripts can be bloody useful
[10:27:11] <megal0maniac> Also good to know that integer comparison will work
[10:27:26] <timemage> megal0maniac, someone was in ##linux recently soliciting points for his presentation on bash to beginners. they asked what we'd want to see on it. my first response was to tell them how to know when they should stop using bash and switch to a proper general purpose scripting language.
[10:28:04] <megal0maniac> Haha :) It does have its place, though
[10:28:21] <megal0maniac> Although how is bash not a general purpose scripting language?
[10:30:54] <timemage> megal0maniac, pretty much everything in it is an extension of working from the command-prompt. if you look at the design of powershell you see lessons taken from scripting languages and command shells and somewhat sanely unified, which is not an easy thing.
[10:30:55] <megal0maniac> Btw the motivation for writing this in the first place, is that irssi went rogue and started eating CPU time in a serious way. Only reason I noticed was because I felt the heatsink (of my Seagate Dockstar) and ran htop to see what was up
[10:32:06] <timemage> megal0maniac, the dockstar has something to do wih the cpu activity?
[10:32:17] <megal0maniac> No, irssi is running on the dockstar
[10:32:36] <megal0maniac> As is this script, and cronjob now :)
[10:33:23] <megal0maniac> Dockstar runs irssi, transmission, minidlna, samba, web server and some others. It's a tiny server in essence
[10:33:38] <timemage> megal0maniac, huh. you might be able to control it a bit using nice, ionice, cgroups, ulimit. however it's probably better to figure out what the real problem is. do you know what wchan was reading most of the time? msg me if you want.
[10:34:57] <megal0maniac> Shouldn't be necessary. I just want "warning lights", then I know I need to check something :)
[10:35:31] <megal0maniac> And it was a one-off. Irssi just failed to close, and it went mad
[10:37:07] <timemage> megal0maniac, i'm sort of confused about the logic of the program though. did you want to light to turn of if either threshold was exceeded?
[10:37:48] <timemage> megal0maniac, never mind. i didn't notice you had two different lights.
[10:40:14] <megal0maniac> Ah, yes :) Green for 5minute, orange for 15
[10:45:27] <megal0maniac> Cool, back to maths. Thanks for the tips :)
[10:47:09] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac_afk does cypress have free tools for the saleae thingy?
[10:47:18] <Tom_itx> for linux...
[11:02:04] <carabia> saleaeaeaea sounds too islam for me
[11:02:17] <carabia> wheres beaky i need him
[11:03:02] <carabia> i am making a low voltage cutoff with a mosfet and was wondering whether to pwm or not to pwm
[11:03:30] <carabia> i could use some gate driver high freq pwm for max efficiency w00t
[11:03:37] <Raazeer> re
[11:03:49] <Raazeer> had a nice lunch and found out where my assembley was off too
[11:05:16] <Tom_itx> carabia, http://www.saleae.com/
[11:05:50] <carabia> im on a phone cause relacom are a bunch of numbnuts
[11:06:11] <Tom_itx> some are reloading the fpga with other functions like freq generator
[11:06:29] <carabia> they effed up the dslam
[11:06:56] <carabia> last week. on friday they said its a bigger prob so hangs til monday
[11:06:57] <Raazeer> say, one of you fine ladies and gentlemen wouldn't happen to have worked with the HC-SR04 before?
[11:07:15] <Tom_itx> sr4 maybe
[11:07:17] <carabia> i am so going to change my isp and getting fiber aswell
[11:07:17] <Tom_itx> IR?
[11:07:34] <Raazeer> Tom_itx, with linux software niiiiice....
[11:08:09] <carabia> what is that islamic named thingy?
[11:08:25] <Raazeer> carabia, have you checked the website Tom_itx gave you?
[11:08:26] <carabia> gimme a 101 please
[11:08:48] <carabia> im on a phone. an e90 to be exact. cant really do multitasking
[11:08:55] <Raazeer> carabia, it's a logic analyzer.
[11:08:56] <carabia> sowwy.
[11:09:02] <carabia> oh alright :)
[11:09:02] <Raazeer> appaently with protocol analysis
[11:09:16] <carabia> expensive?
[11:09:43] <Raazeer> it says 299$
[11:09:44] <Tom_itx> not really
[11:09:54] <Tom_itx> no you can get the 8 channel for less
[11:09:57] <Raazeer> boy do I want one...
[11:10:02] <Tom_itx> you seldom use 16 anyway
[11:10:10] <carabia> how high freq
[11:10:12] <Tom_itx> they take cash
[11:10:16] <Tom_itx> read the specs
[11:10:20] <Raazeer> Tom_itx, everybody does ;)
[11:10:21] <Tom_itx> then you will know
[11:10:57] <Raazeer> I'd even try to get one if I didn't have a 1000$ scope with 16-bit LA right here in front of me on my desk...
[11:11:03] <carabia> will do when i get the lines back up
[11:11:32] <carabia> 16 bit. fancy
[11:11:40] <Raazeer> unfortunately, for 10 c-notes you don't get any protocol analysis...
[11:13:53] <carabia> cool. ill gotta be soon off to order cheap lipos outta china :) some low discharge 3 cells... suits my player real well!
[11:14:31] <carabia> 4400 mAh should do fine. add a usb port for charging pesky crap smartphones on the go
[11:15:05] <Raazeer> carabia, have fun.
[11:15:39] <carabia> will do. failure rate is like 10%. if i order 5 i should get 4 good ones at least :D
[11:16:29] <carabia> low discharge 1.5C 3 cells are almost the same size as high discharge 2 cells :)
[11:17:39] <jadew> carabia, that's 20%
[11:18:32] <carabia> jadew sure is but reality rarely works like numbers do. i pulled 10% out of my ass based on my epiric research...
[11:18:35] <megal0maniac_afk> Tom_itx: I have no idea. Doubt it.
[11:19:34] <carabia> usually it's just problems with soldering. have had loose wiring between cells, which is okay up til the point of shorting out
[11:19:50] <Raazeer> question, is there any site or android app that will help you calculate timing values?
[11:20:03] <carabia> for what?
[11:20:42] <Raazeer> e.g. how many clocks I have to keep a signal high to create a pulse of this-and-that with
[11:21:06] <carabia> kind of a broad question
[11:21:13] <jadew> yeah, it's called "calculator" on most systems
[11:21:24] <carabia> :DD
[11:21:32] <Raazeer> if I have this-and-this clock frequency, such-and-such prescaler set...
[11:21:43] <Raazeer> which brings us beyond the calculator.
[11:21:52] <Raazeer> which I have found, jadew ;)
[11:22:01] <jadew> that's one more division :P
[11:22:27] <jadew> you could put one that does it for you in like 10 minutes :)
[11:23:48] <jadew> say freq. is 1 000 000, 1000 prescaller and you want a period of 2ms
[11:24:08] <jadew> tick = 1 000 000 / 1000;
[11:25:00] <Raazeer> right
[11:25:02] <jadew> 1 / tick = 1 tick every 1 ms (0.001)
[11:25:31] <jadew> nr of ticks needed = perid / timepertick;
[11:26:23] <Raazeer> Ok, I think that much math is not _entirely_ beyond me... I was just hoping somebody had done the work for my lazy bones.
[11:26:38] <Raazeer> I might even code my own app, just for the fun of it.
[11:26:48] <jadew> you can probably put one together with html + js in under 10 minutes
[11:27:01] <jadew> then you'll have a calculator you can share with the world :)
[11:27:15] <Raazeer> jadew, I could probably, but I hate html and jscript
[11:27:21] <jadew> everybody does
[11:27:31] <Raazeer> also if I code it for android, I can put it on the store as beer-ware
[11:27:43] <Raazeer> (you can have it if you buy me a beer)
[11:30:11] <Raazeer> who would've thunk it, I found a calculator
[11:30:34] <Raazeer> http://eleccelerator.com/avr-timer-calculator/ there you got it.
[11:39:08] <jadew> I actually wrote a prescaler thing, but it's windows only (command prompt) utility http://dumb.ro/tb/download/prescaller.zip
[11:39:22] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/tb/download/prescaler.zip
[11:41:46] <jadew> http://pastebin.com/0xzJnKwT
[11:41:50] <jadew> http://pastebin.com/pub6KVwX
[11:42:14] <jadew> the number under the frequency is basically the nr. of ticks needed (for CTC for example)
[11:42:44] <jadew> so you could use it like prescaller 12000000 (freq. you need)
[11:43:07] <jadew> and it would tell you with what prescaler and what ctc value you can reach it
[11:52:17] <Raazeer> nice one, thanks.
[11:52:55] <Raazeer> jadew, you wouldn't happen to have any experience with the vaunted hc-sr04 ultrasonic ranging module?
[11:55:03] <jadew> Raazeer, not yet, I have one or two in a drawer in here, but didn't have the chance to play with them
[11:55:28] <jadew> that's what you want to drive?
[11:56:52] <Raazeer> jadew, ultimately yes
[11:57:35] <Raazeer> to be more precise right now I am able to create a trigger signal for one with my attiny already
[11:57:48] <Raazeer> problem is, I'm getting pretty unstable output
[11:58:40] <jadew> unstable output from the attiny or from the sensor?
[11:58:56] <Raazeer> jadew, the attiny is fine, it's the sensor that is causing me headaches
[11:59:27] <Raazeer> literally too, that's why I disconnected it again right now ;)
[11:59:39] <tzanger> megal0maniac_afk: sure I can use block ciphers but they've got the same types of issues and on top of that now your message size gets artifically expanded
[12:00:31] <jadew> Raazeer, I might give it a try later, at the moment I have to work on something else. I am pretty curious on how it works too
[12:00:37] <Raazeer> jadew, the output of the sr04 ranges from almost zero over the real one to way overlength
[12:00:44] <jadew> Raazeer, does it give voltage feedback?
[12:00:52] <Raazeer> jadew, no pwm
[12:01:11] <jadew> I see, so you have to filter that out in order to get a voltage, eh?
[12:01:13] <Raazeer> specifically, the with of the output pulse is directly proporitonal to the distance measured
[12:01:40] <jadew> yeah, measuring the width doesn't seem like a great idea with an avr
[12:01:42] <Raazeer> http://elecfreaks.com/store/download/HC-SR04.pdf here, have a datasheet
[12:02:08] <tzanger> nothing hard about it
[12:02:18] <tzanger> you have a timer for just that purpose
[12:02:33] <jadew> tzanger, chances are you're gonna miss a lot of edges
[12:02:36] <tzanger> if you throw an RC filter at it now you have tempco issues
[12:02:37] <jadew> depends a lot on the frequency
[12:02:39] <tzanger> jadew: howso?
[12:02:54] <jadew> tzanger, the mcu has a low freq
[12:03:10] <Raazeer> in principle it's not such a bad idea, but if I'm getting super-jittery data and have to do a sanity check on each measurement, that complicates the code by several orders of magnitude
[12:03:11] <tzanger> I've got a reliable 433MHz radio rx that measures 4us pulses very accurately
[12:03:14] <jadew> so your tick or the time when you can actually process the event could be several ticks if not more after the edge
[12:03:37] <tzanger> you don't do it in software
[12:03:40] <jadew> tzanger, yeah, but you're constantly polling the PIN
[12:03:55] <tzanger> jadew: no!
[12:03:58] <tzanger> you don't do it in software
[12:04:02] <tzanger> you use the timer module to do it
[12:04:24] * Raazeer carefully steps aside and looks how the situation between jadew and tzanger develops...
[12:04:48] <jadew> tzanger, relying on ISRs means that that's the only ISR you'll have running
[12:05:08] <tzanger> again, no
[12:05:15] <jadew> tzanger so how would you do it?
[12:05:21] <tzanger> I don't think you understand what using the timer module to measure pulse width entails
[12:05:24] <Raazeer> tzanger, I'd be happy to listen to any advice you might be able to give on how to do it better.
[12:05:45] <tzanger> you set up CCP with a timer period that makes sense for the application (i.e. how wide is the counter and what's the min/max pulse width you want to handle
[12:06:02] <tzanger> then you configure the module to start/stop on edges and interrupt
[12:06:14] <tzanger> so let's say you start counting. you can sleep, perform other operations, doesn't matter
[12:06:33] <tzanger> the timer will count and when the other edge is seen, the timer value is captured and you get an interrupt
[12:06:39] <jadew> tzanger, is that something you can do with regular AVRs?
[12:06:55] <tzanger> you can wait as long as you want (within reason) -- acknowledging the interrupt isn't time critical
[12:07:09] <tzanger> when you get to the ISR you read the timer value and you know how wide the pulse was because it's count * period
[12:07:25] <tzanger> jadew: yep, I do it right now on an AT90CAN and I have another application where I'm bringing it down to the Tiny12
[12:07:55] <jadew> so this CCP configuration is what enables the avr to capture the timer on edge, in hardware?
[12:08:42] <tzanger> yep
[12:08:57] <Raazeer> tzanger, is there any source code to be had for the stuff you did on the tiny12?
[12:08:59] <tzanger> most micros have this functionality in their timer peripherals
[12:09:09] <Raazeer> I'm using the tiny13, so that might be useful to me
[12:09:16] <tzanger> Raazeer: not on tiny12 yet but I can give you my at90can code
[12:09:38] <Raazeer> tzanger, I'd be delighted to browse it and see if I can glean any insights from it.
[12:10:17] <jadew> tzanger: "One Input Capture Unit" - is this it?
[12:10:41] <tzanger> if you use an RC filter to turn the pulse width into an analog voltage now you have all the accuracy/stability/tempco issues that come with analog
[12:10:52] <tzanger> jadew: probably yes, I have to see the datasheet
[12:11:05] <jadew> http://www.atmel.com/images/atmel-2486-8-bit-avr-microcontroller-atmega8_l_datasheet.pdf
[12:12:35] <jadew> Input Capture Unit The Timer/Counter incorporates an Input Capture unit that can capture external events and give
[12:12:35] <jadew> them a time-stamp indicating time of occurrence.
[12:12:41] <jadew> looks like it
[12:12:51] <jadew> wonder how I missed that
[12:13:13] <Raazeer> jadew, I don't think I ever saw anything like it in the tiny13 datasheet...
[12:13:36] <tzanger> Raazeer: http://pastebin.com/t5EPs13m
[12:13:55] <jadew> Raazeer, well, the tiny13 is a very basic AVR, it wouldn't surprise me if it missed the feature
[12:17:07] <tzanger> jadew: tiny12 has a fairly good CCP
[12:17:47] <tzanger> Raazeer: http://pastebin.com/RSbWwsu1 that's the timer1 init code, missed it in the last paste
[12:18:03] <jadew> I don't think tiny13 has that tho
[12:20:23] <jadew> tzanger, do you have a link to a full tiny12 datasheet?
[12:20:33] <Raazeer> tzanger, thanks
[12:20:57] <jadew> the datasheet on atmel's site seems to be the "15 pages" datasheet
[12:22:03] <tzanger> looks like tiny13 has it too
[12:22:09] <tzanger> jadew: I was just looking. I have one locally
[12:22:15] <jadew> tzanger, what is it called on tiny13?
[12:22:32] <tzanger> hm, no the tiny13 doesn't have capture
[12:24:54] <Raazeer> jadew, when you try out your sr04, be sure to record some waveforms
[12:25:05] <tzanger> looks like the only wayt o do it on tiny13 is to use pin change interrupt which has issues such as jadew suggested
[12:25:28] <jadew> Raazeer, sure thing
[12:25:53] <Raazeer> I think the problem is that with wider range the alledged rectangle waveform of the pwm signal goes all snafuey
[12:31:36] <Raazeer> officially the max range is 4 meters, but I'll be damned if you can get a sensible reply out of mine at anything over 120cm
[13:07:56] <megal0maniac_afk> jadew: Hot tip: remove the 's' at the end of the filename and put 'doc' in front of it :)
[13:08:35] <megal0maniac_afk> Oh, but I see what you mean
[13:08:41] <megal0maniac_afk> Well that sucks :P
[13:08:56] <jadew> what do you mean?
[13:09:07] <megal0maniac_afk> 20:05 < jadew> the datasheet on atmel's site seems to be the "15 pages" datasheet
[13:09:15] <jadew> ah
[13:09:19] <megal0maniac_afk> i.e. the summary
[13:09:24] <jadew> yeah
[13:09:44] * megal0maniac_afk might have it
[13:10:53] <megal0maniac_afk> I do. 94 pages. You still want it?
[13:11:31] <jadew> no, I trust tzanger, I just wanted to check if it has that input capture feature
[13:11:51] <jadew> thanks tho
[13:12:10] <megal0maniac_afk> Alright. I'm being lazy about reading scrollback, so I didn't know why you wanted it. Only that you did at some point ;)
[13:13:03] <megal0maniac_afk> tzanger: Techlib?
[13:18:40] <bsdfox> tiny13 doesn't have the input capture module
[13:18:43] <bsdfox> only output compare
[13:33:57] <shroomduke> what is "On-Chip 2-cycle Multiplier"
[13:35:53] <tzanger> megal0maniac_afk: eh?
[13:38:00] <rue_house> who here is in the usa and can help me with something
[13:38:14] <tzanger> what does locality have to do with it?
[13:38:24] <rue_house> I have an ebay listing problem
[13:38:33] <rue_house> something didn't work with the shipping part of my listing
[13:38:58] <rue_house> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161146644354
[13:39:07] <rue_house> what do you see regarding shipping on that
[13:41:00] <bsdfox> shroomduke, just a 2 cycle multiply instruction
[13:41:31] <rue_house> ah I know the wuestion, can you "request quote" from that listing?
[13:41:50] <bsdfox> rue: Shipping cost cannot be calculated. Please enter a valid Postal Code.
[13:44:59] <shroomduke> thanx bsdfox I gotta read this stuff about 10 times before I get it
[13:54:48] <Guest46847> hello. Who was worked with nrf24l01?
[13:56:09] <Guest46847> i have NRF24L01 WiFi modules and wonder why i can't connect it to PC WiFi network?
[13:56:55] <Guest46847> that is why i cant send info to NRF24L01 via WiFi from PC?
[13:57:13] <OndraSter_> wifi is not nrf24l01
[13:57:29] <Guest46847> frequency the same
[13:57:33] <OndraSter_> so?
[13:57:47] <OndraSter_> guys and girls have got the same fingers as well, yet they are different
[13:57:48] <Guest46847> so what is different?
[13:58:07] <OndraSter_> everythign else
[13:58:08] <bsdfox> Guest46847, modulation
[13:58:24] <Guest46847> modulation or data pocket format?
[13:58:36] <bsdfox> I'm guessing you have lots of other issues if you're just expecting the chip to connect to your wifi network
[13:58:53] <Guest46847> why?
[13:58:54] <bsdfox> <OndraSter_> everythign else
[13:59:09] <bsdfox> because electronics isn't based on magic
[13:59:10] <Guest46847> say one example
[13:59:22] <Guest46847> bsdfox electronics is based on facts
[13:59:30] <Guest46847> tell me one fact
[13:59:52] <Guest46847> what is different?
[14:00:19] <rue_house> bsdfox, so it wont accept a us postal code?
[14:00:41] <Guest46847> bsdfox so you don't know exactly what is different?
[14:00:51] <rue_house> I think request for quote can only be done after buying something
[14:01:54] <bsdfox> Guest46847, no, I know a lot about what's different but I don't enjoy conversing with you
[14:02:26] <bsdfox> rue_house, I put in a valid zip and it tells me the postal code is invalid still
[14:02:47] <GuShH> 123 fake st, 1234 always works for me!
[14:02:55] <rue_house> I think its only able to comprehend a canadian code, this is stupid!
[14:03:13] <GuShH> rue_house: what's your zip code?
[14:04:09] <rue_house> V0N2W6
[14:04:23] <GuShH> mine is B1623GJR
[14:04:25] <rue_house> ebay is being stupid
[14:04:38] <GuShH> GJR is the encoding for where the place is located with regards to the street
[14:04:48] <GuShH> not sure what else it includes
[14:04:55] <Guest46847> anyone know some wifi modules what can be controled with AVR and be connected to PC wifi?
[14:05:07] <GuShH> but it tells the mailman whether the place is located to the left or to the right, etc.
[14:06:16] <rue_house> ok wait, that listing, you guys on an ebay.ca site or a .com site?
[14:06:29] <rue_house> bsdfox, ?
[14:06:31] <GuShH> you should use .com if you are not in .ca :p
[14:06:43] <GuShH> for some reason ebay sends me to .co.uk and others out of nowhere
[14:06:55] <rue_house> I am in .ca but I think that only the .com will let you put in a us postal code
[14:07:00] <GuShH> yeah
[14:07:05] <GuShH> most likely that's it
[14:07:20] <GuShH> still, pretty stupid coming from such a massive store.
[14:07:28] <GuShH> they should detect it's an US code and redirect if need be.
[14:07:38] <Guest46847> anyone know any wifi modules what can be controled with AVR and be connected to PC wifi?
[14:07:46] <GuShH> Guest46847: I read you the first time
[14:07:48] <rue_house> http://www.ebay.com/itm/161146644354
[14:07:59] <GuShH> no answer means people are either ignoring you or there isn't a good answer.
[14:08:02] <rue_house> can you see if you can enter a us postal code into the shipping cost of that one?
[14:08:07] <GuShH> also, not everyone is waiting for you to talk :p
[14:08:22] <bsdfox> rue_house, I was on .ca
[14:08:32] <Guest46847> i thik more people was not with pc when i writed first
[14:08:34] <GuShH> Minor pin tarnish.
[14:08:34] <rue_house> Guest46847, hang out a while
[14:08:39] <Guest46847> so i must repeat time to time
[14:08:41] <bsdfox> rue_house, same error
[14:08:44] <rue_house> damn
[14:08:50] <GuShH> rue_house: I thought those connectors went for more ?
[14:08:53] <rue_house> I have two people who want to buy this item
[14:09:11] <rue_house> the only idea I have is to change it to fixed shipping costs
[14:09:20] <rue_house> they do, but I wanted to make sure they sold
[14:09:32] <GuShH> the tarnish cleans off easily though
[14:09:34] <rue_house> cause they been sitting on my shelf for like 3 years
[14:09:48] <GuShH> it's normal when no dielectric grease or other "pseudo passivation" is used
[14:10:02] <GuShH> you know what works wonders, silicone grease (for me)
[14:10:07] <GuShH> or just the spray
[14:10:33] <GuShH> rue_house: yeah I get it, although I bet soon you'll need them for a project
[14:10:35] * GuShH cracks up
[14:11:07] <rue_house> not those, I cant afford the socket!
[14:11:20] <shroomduke> Guest46847 have you read http://arduino-info.wikispaces.com/Nrf24L01-2.4GHz-HowTo
[14:11:36] <GuShH> why does it say 600 amp? is it missing a dot?
[14:11:44] <GuShH> looks like 60
[14:11:46] <Guest46847> bsdfox can you please be so kind and answer to me what is the wifi specification what uses PC? What codewords i must search in wifi modules?
[14:11:57] <rue_house> yea the stamp has no dot, dont know whats up with that
[14:12:02] <GuShH> the ones I use are the euro connectors... cheap plastic, but hey good enough for my non industrial uses.
[14:12:34] <GuShH> problem I've had with those is the strain relief clamp / cap at the back, it often cracks open and lets the cable loose
[14:12:42] <bsdfox> Guest46847, "wifi" is a nickname for the 802.11 RFCs
[14:12:44] <GuShH> (they come in blue and red)
[14:12:52] <GuShH> red are usually more than single phase, higher amperage
[14:12:55] <Guest46847> shroomduke thank you i already read it
[14:13:26] <GuShH> good thing is the sockets are just as expensive as the plugs
[14:13:30] <Guest46847> bsdfox so PC use 802.11 and that NRF24L01 don't use it?
[14:13:30] <bsdfox> Guest46847, there are modules you can use to connect to a wifi network but they're fairly expensive and you're going to need help getting them working
[14:13:37] <bsdfox> and you won't get help because you're a dick.
[14:13:54] * GuShH hands bsdfox some candy
[14:14:00] <Guest46847> bsdfox i programm in ASM so description is my help :)
[14:14:00] <megal0maniac_afk> bsdfox: Thanks. You just brightened up my day :)
[14:14:07] <GuShH> rue_house: year 1998?
[14:14:13] <GuShH> or 96
[14:14:23] <rue_house> can anyone tell me if there is a 'request total' available on that listing?
[14:14:32] <Tom_itx> what listing?
[14:14:36] <GuShH> this is what I was using before but with 3 prongs http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Set-L14-30-Locking-4-Prong-Plugs-30A-125-250V-L14-30P/231016740966?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D2610179569468747549%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D161146644354%26
[14:14:42] <GuShH> Tom_itx: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161146644354
[14:14:42] <Tom_itx> jeez take your ebay issues somewhere
[14:14:44] <rue_house> I think thathttp://www.ebay.com/itm/161146644354
[14:14:47] <Guest46847> bsdfox so PC use 802.11 and that NRF24L01 don't use it? Can you please be so kind please and please answer please to my question please?
[14:14:47] <GuShH> heh
[14:14:55] <rue_house> I think that only comes up if you commit to buy
[14:15:19] * GuShH also hands Tom_itx some candy, then promptly heads outside to do the tierod replacement before day turns into night and all of that.
[14:15:28] <rue_house> I need help from browers in the usa tow ork this out
[14:15:46] <GuShH> rue_house: all I see is the button to calculate shipping
[14:15:49] <Tom_itx> you need help with a spell checker too
[14:15:49] <rue_house> I have no idea how to fix this
[14:16:02] <rue_house> what about the shipping tab?
[14:16:04] <Tom_itx> what do you want ?
[14:16:06] <GuShH> beleive > believe
[14:16:13] <rue_house> does the thing under there work?
[14:16:18] <carabia> belieber
[14:16:25] <GuShH> gimme a us zip code
[14:16:30] <GuShH> justin belieber!
[14:16:37] <carabia> #beliebe
[14:16:39] <rue_house> 90210?
[14:16:44] <carabia> ahahaha
[14:16:49] <GuShH> Tom_itx: we all have some sort of dyslexkaiaha going on
[14:16:49] <Guest46847> ok bsdfox please thank you please dickhead. you know.. not everybody knows english very vell to be kind enought in first time..
[14:16:51] <rue_house> its valid isn't it?
[14:16:54] <Tom_itx> Shipping cost cannot be calculated. Please enter a valid ZIP Code.
[14:16:57] <Tom_itx> and i did
[14:17:09] <rue_house> try tis, say V0N1V0
[14:17:14] <Tom_itx> no
[14:17:22] <GuShH> for US that doesn't work
[14:17:23] <rue_house> dosnt' work either?
[14:17:33] <rue_house> I know,I want to see how stupid ebay is being
[14:17:47] <Tom_itx> US $10.30
[14:17:47] <Tom_itx>
[14:17:48] <Tom_itx> Canada
[14:17:48] <Tom_itx>
[14:17:48] <Tom_itx> Standard Shipping (Canada Post Regular Parcel)
[14:17:48] <Tom_itx>
[14:17:48] <Tom_itx> Estimated between Fri. Nov. 15 and Wed. Nov. 27
[14:17:49] <Tom_itx> US $9.78
[14:17:49] <Tom_itx>
[14:17:50] <Tom_itx> Canada
[14:17:50] <Tom_itx>
[14:17:51] <carabia> 90210!
[14:17:51] <Tom_itx> Expedited Shipping (Canada Post Expedited Parcel)
[14:17:51] <Tom_itx>
[14:17:52] <Tom_itx> Estimated between Thu. Nov. 14 and Fri. Nov. 22
[14:18:01] <carabia> spam q_q
[14:18:06] <rue_house> WTF?!?!
[14:18:12] <Tom_itx> carabia, you want me to ban me?
[14:18:16] <rue_house> Tom_itx, your logged in too, right?
[14:18:30] <Tom_itx> where else would i get that spam from>
[14:18:31] <Tom_itx> >
[14:18:31] <GuShH> I tried some alabama codes, no luck
[14:18:39] <rue_house> oh man
[14:18:45] <GuShH> 35006
[14:18:48] <Tom_itx> canada zip so i used canada country
[14:18:55] <Tom_itx> us doesn't work
[14:18:59] <rue_house> how do I fix this...
[14:18:59] <GuShH> yeah
[14:19:03] <GuShH> ask ebay!
[14:19:08] <Tom_itx> move to the US
[14:19:08] <GuShH> I never sold anything on ebay, too much hassle.
[14:19:10] <GuShH> heh
[14:19:18] <GuShH> don't forget to bring the plug with you
[14:19:30] <Guest46847> Can anybody please explain me what is difference from PC WiFi and NRF24L01 wifi?
[14:19:33] * Tom_itx plugs GuShH
[14:19:35] <GuShH> rue_house: I've seen stuff stamped with 0s instead of Os
[14:19:36] <rue_house> they made shipping calculator "easy" so I entered all the details...
[14:19:39] * GuShH turns on
[14:19:46] <Tom_itx> tmi
[14:20:06] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest46847: They are as different as PC wifi and bluetooth and a cordless telephone (which all work on the 2.4ghz band)
[14:20:10] * GuShH pops.. the breaker.
[14:20:23] <megal0maniac_afk> i.e. they are not the same, or even similar
[14:21:03] <GuShH> megal0maniac_afk: a good way to explain it is to compare the frequency domain as a street, where any type of legal vehicle can drive (motorcycles, bikes, cars, trucks) and yet they're all different in their unique way and purpose :p
[14:21:24] <megal0maniac_afk> I like that one
[14:21:31] <GuShH> of course, illegal as well... I bet most chinese modules spew out lots of noise everywhere in the spectrum
[14:21:46] * GuShH both likes and hates china
[14:21:56] <megal0maniac_afk> Same
[14:22:58] <bsdfox> GuShH, hah yeah I'd like to see a spectrum analyzer around these cheap nordic modules
[14:24:01] <GuShH> Tom_itx: should I use graphite based lubes on locks or is silicone ok?
[14:24:24] <Tom_itx> either is ok with me, it's not my lock
[14:24:29] <GuShH> lol
[14:24:34] * GuShH walks away
[14:25:07] <Tom_itx> moly grease
[14:25:08] <Guest46847> GuShH you away now?
[14:25:41] <Guest46847> can any body tel me what codewords i must search in wifi modules to be compatible with PC wifi?
[14:25:51] <Guest46847> LAN 802.11?
[14:26:12] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest46847: Have you even tried what I told you?
[14:26:18] <Guest46847> yes
[14:26:21] <Tom_itx> Guest46847, no
[14:26:24] <Guest46847> big plates
[14:26:39] <Tom_itx> ask google what you should ask google
[14:26:41] <megal0maniac_afk> Those are called PCBs
[14:27:18] <Tom_itx> gawd, irc is nuts today
[14:27:31] <Guest46847> megal0maniac_afk so there is no smaller modules like NRF24L01?
[14:27:39] <megal0maniac_afk> No
[14:27:48] * megal0maniac_afk can't take this madness
[14:27:56] <Guest46847> :D
[14:28:46] <rue_house> im on the phone with ebay now
[14:28:49] <rue_house> :/
[14:29:29] <Guest46847> i think i get what i wanted
[14:29:38] <Guest46847> need searching for 802.11b compatibility
[14:29:52] <Guest46847> thank you all who helped! :)
[14:30:23] <tzanger> Guest46847: 802.11
[14:30:38] <Guest46847> ...but can PC wifi can send NRF24L01 compatible signal?
[14:30:48] <tzanger> 802.11a, b, g, n, ac... those are all the common specifications that mean "wifi"
[14:31:00] <tzanger> Guest46847: yes, with an NRF24L01 itself
[14:31:05] <OndraSter_> hah
[14:31:06] <OndraSter_> haha
[14:31:09] <rue_house> Guest46847, you want to stream data or do webpage?
[14:31:18] <Guest46847> stram byte :D
[14:31:34] <rue_house> Guest46847, tcp or udp?
[14:31:45] <Guest46847> need to send byte to NRF24L01 from PC
[14:31:56] <OndraSter_> then you need nrf24l01 connected to your PC
[14:32:10] <Guest46847> i wander maybe there is a way not to do so
[14:32:17] <OndraSter_> there is not
[14:32:18] <tzanger> 2.4GHz is just a frequency; it doesn't describe how data is encoded at that frequency. hence you have 802.11b/g 802.14 which is ZigBee (which also runs on 2.4GHz), DECT which has a 2.4GHz protocol...
[14:32:24] <rue_house> they have wireless versions of the ethernet chips
[14:32:34] <OndraSter_> then you have microwaves
[14:32:35] <OndraSter_> in your kitchen
[14:32:40] <OndraSter_> that operate on 2.4GHz as well
[14:32:42] <rue_house> dont they?
[14:32:46] <Guest46847> tzanger i wonder maybe PC can encode more ways than only 802.11
[14:32:48] <tzanger> yes, TI has a rather nice embedded module which contains the TCP/IP stack and 802.11b radio and works off of SPI
[14:32:56] * rue_house wonders how you configure the wireless connection
[14:33:05] <OndraSter_> AT commands?
[14:33:09] <tzanger> Guest46847: no. the wifi cards in the PC are 802.11, either a, b, g, n or ac (or some combination thereof)
[14:33:16] <tzanger> there's also bluetooth which runs on 2.4GHz
[14:33:24] <tzanger> you *can* get cheap bluetooth modules for embedded use
[14:33:36] <OndraSter_> 2.4GHz is a quite used freq because it is free and unlicensed
[14:33:41] <tzanger> they implement enough of the bluetooth spec to look like a serial port and you talk to with a UART
[14:33:41] <Guest46847> tzanger so these wifi cards is ONLY 802.11 yes?
[14:33:48] <tzanger> Guest46847: yes
[14:34:09] <Guest46847> tzanger thank you very much :)
[14:34:11] <tzanger> Guest46847: nRF24L01 is just another incompatible module using 2.4GHz
[14:34:32] <tzanger> so you either need an nRF24L01 connected to your PC through a USB-to-SPI interface or something like that
[14:34:33] <Guest46847> so i need search for bluetooth i think
[14:35:00] <tzanger> Guest46847: look at bluegiga, they're a pretty big name. I have hundreds of the A7eng devices which are the same thing
[14:35:03] <Guest46847> i need to bild wireless device which does not need extra plug in PC side
[14:35:07] <tzanger> lots and lots of little bluetooth modules
[14:35:22] <tzanger> Guest46847: yep, bluetooth is good for that if the distance isn't too great
[14:35:39] <Guest46847> what distance aproximately?
[14:35:54] <tzanger> 802.11 is kind of "heavy" for embedded systems which is WHY the 802.11 modules for embedded are so pricey ($20ish)
[14:36:07] <tzanger> Guest46847: depends on the device. BT class 1 is 100m open-air I think
[14:36:12] <Guest46847> i see..
[14:36:18] <Guest46847> 100m is more than needed
[14:36:29] <Guest46847> 20m be enaught
[14:36:33] <tzanger> that's open-air, remember
[14:36:39] <Guest46847> thank you very much
[14:36:40] <tzanger> 20m I think class 2 is fine with
[14:36:42] <megal0maniac_afk> Without a microwave
[14:37:03] <Guest46847> megal0maniac_afk ?
[14:37:18] <megal0maniac_afk> Microwave oven is 2.4ghz :D
[14:37:38] <rue_house> AT&NETWORKNAME=HUMID&PASSWORD=I814U
[14:37:41] <rue_house> ?
[14:37:47] <tzanger> Guest46847: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Wireless-Serial-4-Pin-Bluetooth-Module-Slave-Module-Board-For-Arduino-/170896942880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ca406720&_uhb=1
[14:37:55] <rue_house> hey what do you know, its a know current ebay bug!
[14:38:23] <tzanger> see how it looks like there is a module soldered on to a larger module? that smaller module is one of the modules I'm talking about, they just slap it on a bigger carrier that makes it easy to interface to (adds pins basically)
[14:39:48] <tzanger> searching ebay for "arduino bluetooth" gets you in the right ballpark, about $10 for a module (they do come cheaper)
[14:40:33] <Guest46847> tzanger you are best :D
[14:40:40] <Tom_itx> rue_house they probably use the same web designers as the Affordable Healthcare Act site uses
[14:41:33] <Guest46847> so tzanger NRF24L01 is for beginers who doesn't know about these bluetooth modules? or NRF24L01 is easer to code?
[14:42:12] <tzanger> no
[14:42:24] <tzanger> nRF24L01 is not for beginners; it's just a different beast.
[14:42:44] <tzanger> it's a cheap module which is pretty flexible and allows you to quickly set up wireless networks between nRF24L01 devices
[14:42:44] <Guest46847> but less compatible with devices than bluetooth module
[14:42:55] <tzanger> it's not designed to be compatible. it's not that it's less compatible
[14:43:14] <tzanger> that's like saying your motorcycle is less compatible than a car for carrying a table
[14:43:20] <tzanger> it simply wasn't designed to be compatible
[14:43:37] <Guest46847> ok i think i get it
[14:44:16] <tzanger> the nRF24L01 has a LOT of hardware built into it to make wireless communications "easy" -- the bad old days doing any kind of hundreds-of-kbps high frequency design was very difficult because there are a lot of balls you have to keep juggling to get everything to work
[14:44:21] <Guest46847> nrf24L01 is just cheaper and resistant on highjacking (i hope i wrote write) :D
[14:44:31] <tzanger> hijacking?
[14:44:40] <OndraSter_> hijacking is a different layer
[14:44:45] <OndraSter_> everybody can listen to your signal
[14:45:10] <Guest46847> OndraSter_ maybe can listen but cannot take control over device
[14:45:23] <OndraSter_> huh
[14:45:29] <Guest46847> because must have Nrf24L01 module
[14:45:30] <OndraSter_> they can transmit on your frequency
[14:45:32] <OndraSter_> yes
[14:45:49] <OndraSter_> but if they know what to look for, it is actually way less secure than bluetooth on the tx/rx level
[14:46:00] <tzanger> Guest46847: that's something else entirely
[14:46:15] <tzanger> for that you want to look at encryption and authentication, and that's an entirely different kettle of fish
[14:46:22] <Guest46847> i just wonder differences between bluetooth and nrf
[14:46:30] <OndraSter_> a lot
[14:46:35] <tzanger> bluetooth helps a lot there because it's baked into the protocol (which is also part of why the bluetooth spec is 3" thick)
[14:46:43] <OndraSter_> only 3"?
[14:46:50] <tzanger> OndraSter_: it's small text :-)
[14:46:53] <OndraSter_> ah :)
[14:47:06] <OndraSter_> I only read the basics of BT
[14:47:11] <tzanger> I have on my shelf the CIP network library specification (industrial protocol) -- it's one 4" binder and two 2" binders
[14:47:46] <OndraSter_> nice
[14:47:54] <Guest46847> ok tzanger you give me hope :) Thank you and good night! (i have night :D)
[14:48:05] <OndraSter_> latvia hasn't got night yet
[14:48:05] <tzanger> Guest46847: don't worry about this stuff at the moment. get a nice cheap bluetooth module for arduino and just start talking ... it's a serial port to the PC and a serial port to the Arduino. by far the fastest way to get up and running
[14:48:06] <OndraSter_> ...
[14:48:25] <tzanger> and he's gone
[14:48:44] <OndraSter_> thank abcminiuser for that.
[14:48:52] <abcminiuser> Youwah?>
[14:49:01] <OndraSter_> well you don't know the saying "thank god for that"?
[14:51:14] <abcminiuser> Woooot
[14:51:18] * abcminiuser has XPROG working
[14:53:33] <OndraSter_> nice
[14:56:35] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter_: It's 22:40 in Latvia. Same time as here, and CZ I think
[14:56:45] <megal0maniac_afk> Which is considered by most as night :P
[14:56:46] <OndraSter_> it is 21:40 here
[14:56:47] <OndraSter_> DST yo
[14:57:00] <megal0maniac_afk> We don't have that confusing nonsense
[14:57:06] <OndraSter_> I wish we didn't either
[14:57:08] <megal0maniac_afk> We're close enough to the equator :)
[14:57:51] <megal0maniac_afk> Oh, you /don't/ have DST now
[14:57:59] <OndraSter_> no idea
[14:58:05] <megal0maniac_afk> Lol
[14:58:13] <OndraSter_> I just know that it screws up my mind
[14:58:20] <OndraSter_> also should I get an ice cream...
[14:58:51] <megal0maniac_afk> The answer to that is almost always yes
[14:59:28] <OndraSter_> well it is getting lat
[14:59:28] <OndraSter_> e
[14:59:32] <OndraSter_> I will be even fatter than now :o
[14:59:43] <Tom_itx> you're fat?
[15:00:05] <Tom_itx> i thought that was a merican trait
[15:00:14] * megal0maniac_afk was just going to say that
[15:00:36] <OndraSter_> lol
[15:01:04] <Guest57985> tzanger what you think about this?
[15:01:04] <megal0maniac_afk> Ah, I see. ROMA is a registered nickname
[15:01:08] <Guest57985> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RS232-TTL-LC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transceiver-Master-Slave-Serial-Port-Module-/300914079186?pt=US_USB_Bluetooth_Adapters_Dongles&hash=item460fe075d2
[15:01:28] <Guest57985> will it work with AVR?
[15:01:37] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest57985: It's exactly the same thing he sent you the link for and yes, it will
[15:01:50] <Guest57985> no this is different think
[15:01:54] * Tom_itx cleans the wax outta Guest57985's ears
[15:02:06] <Guest57985> there is no word arduino in description :D
[15:02:21] <Tom_itx> arduino is not the last word in avr
[15:02:30] <Tom_itx> let's get that cleared up right now!
[15:02:54] <Guest57985> what is : Support for 802.11Co-Existence ?
[15:03:02] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest57985: If it works with Arduino, then it will work with AVR because Arduino is based on AVR
[15:03:28] <Tom_itx> ardweenie is just a wannabe avr
[15:03:28] <Guest57985> megal0maniac_afk i say there is not said that it will work with arduino nor with AVR
[15:04:09] * megal0maniac_afk goes off to do some Bernoulli differential equations
[15:04:20] <tzanger> Guest57985: looks like it'd work fine, no need for EDR so don't pay for it if you don't have to
[15:04:39] <Guest57985> what is EDR?
[15:04:57] <tzanger> it uses 3.3V logic to talk to a microcontroller. So if you want 5V, get one for 5V or use level converters
[15:05:16] <tzanger> EDR is enhanced data rate, gets you up to 3Mbps which is probably overkill for you
[15:05:36] <Guest57985> i just saw most cheap module
[15:05:37] <tzanger> it's not going to hurt you if you have it, but if you can find a cheaper module without it, you won't miss it either
[15:05:46] <OndraSter_> <Tom_itx> you're fat? << no, I am just big boned :D
[15:06:00] <Guest57985> this is most cheap what i found
[15:06:05] <tzanger> DO NOT get a bluetooth LE (BT LE) module; that's a low power version that MOST PCs and cell phones do not yet support
[15:06:07] <Tom_itx> no
[15:06:13] <Guest57985> what mean Support for 802.11Co-Existence ?
[15:06:24] <tzanger> BT4 is fine because it will talk "regular" BT and BLE
[15:06:36] <tzanger> Guest57985: meaningless for you, and probably meaningless on a module like that as well
[15:06:46] <Tom_itx> Guest57985 seems you need to do your homework
[15:07:05] <megal0maniac_afk> Tom_itx: You think?
[15:07:15] <Tom_itx> seldom
[15:07:17] <tzanger> Guest57985: remember how we said that there are dozens of things on 2.4GHz? two of them that are used at the same time on the same physical hardware such as laptops and cell phones are bluetooth and wifi
[15:07:19] <Tom_itx> but that was obvious
[15:07:57] <Guest57985> tzanger i was thinking that 802.11 is wifi not bluetooth
[15:07:57] <tzanger> the coexistence thing is a signal that your wifi and bt hardware can use to figure out who can use the 2.4GHz radio; it helps both achieve higher data rates when used properly
[15:08:00] <tzanger> it is
[15:08:36] <Guest57985> tzanger so this module can comunicate with wifi?
[15:08:49] <tzanger> but that line is saying that this BT module supports that synchronization signal. that is only useful if you have an 802.11 radio that you're controlling. (you don't have this) so much like EDR, this is just a feature that is fine if it's there, but you won't miss if it isn't
[15:08:53] <tzanger> no
[15:09:11] <tzanger> it's a signal that helps it play nicely with wifi hardware that you design along with this module
[15:09:19] <tzanger> since you're not doing that, the signal is just not used/not useful
[15:09:24] <tzanger> guys be nice, he's clearly a beginner
[15:09:41] <tzanger> looking up this stuff would lead to greater confusion rather than greater understanding
[15:10:00] <tzanger> y'all know I do not suffer fools, but this guy's not a fool, just a newbie.
[15:10:12] <megal0maniac_afk> tzanger: Sorry. Maths all day. I did try
[15:10:46] <tzanger> when he comes back next week asking us to write his seiral modules for him he won't be treated as nicely. :-)
[15:11:11] <Guest57985> so most public bluetooth will not support LE and BT modules?
[15:11:19] <Tom_itx> tzanger sure...
[15:11:25] <Tom_itx> you'll write em for him
[15:11:55] <tzanger> Guest57985: no no... all I'm saying is that for you, for this project, those features are meaningless
[15:12:03] <tzanger> Tom_itx: not a chance
[15:12:32] <Tom_itx> maybe he'd be better off starting out with something a bit simpler
[15:12:42] <Tom_itx> like blinking an led?
[15:12:51] <Guest57985> don't get this line
[15:12:53] <Guest57985> DO NOT get a bluetooth LE (BT LE) module; that's a low power version that MOST PCs and cell phones do not yet support
[15:13:22] <Guest57985> i am very beginer in wifi and bluetooth :)
[15:13:32] <megal0maniac_afk> If it says bluetooth LE or low energy, don't buy it
[15:13:36] <tzanger> BLE is not compatible with BT1/2/3. it's an entirely separate beast and there are very few devices which can use it
[15:13:37] <Guest57985> so i am afraid to do some wrong things
[15:13:49] <tzanger> that module you linked will work very well to get you up and running
[15:14:08] <megal0maniac_afk> The module you linked to is good. Just be aware that it needs to work at 3v3 and not 5v
[15:14:21] <tzanger> and yes, your first project would be to get a blinking LED on arduino. Then the next project would be to set the blink rate from a PC over bluetooth using this module
[15:14:24] <w|zzy> bt le is very new.. only high end phones and comps released this year will speak it.
[15:14:27] <Guest57985> 3v3 doesn't scare me
[15:14:36] <Guest57985> zenner diodes and all is OK :D
[15:14:43] <w|zzy> tzanger: you missed a step..
[15:14:44] <tzanger> Guest57985: it's not about scaring you... does your arduino work well at 3.3V I/O?
[15:14:47] <w|zzy> blink led
[15:14:53] <megal0maniac_afk> w|zzy: lol
[15:14:56] <Guest57985> tzanger i don't have arduino
[15:14:59] <w|zzy> blink led get speed over serial
[15:15:08] <w|zzy> blink led get speed over bt
[15:15:11] <Guest57985> i communicate with USB with 3.3V
[15:15:14] <tzanger> Guest57985: ok, I don't know anything about your project. I was guessing
[15:15:24] <tzanger> w|zzy: true... that would be a logical next step
[15:15:57] <tzanger> Guest57985: pay attention to w|zzy... he's right.. there are three good steps which once completed will prove you have the link working correctly and aren't missing anything
[15:15:59] <Guest57985> tzanger where you see in link that this is not bt or le?
[15:16:00] <w|zzy> Yeah...modules can be a bitch
[15:16:39] <w|zzy> Guest57985: it will say in the spec.. it's the new tech, they will push it.
[15:17:04] <Guest57985> w|zzy and what is two letters for this one?
[15:17:13] <w|zzy> if you haven't money check out bluegiga
[15:17:20] <Guest57985> just want to be cleverer :D
[15:17:34] <w|zzy> le = low energy
[15:17:45] <tzanger> Guest57985: it's BT2.0EDR
[15:17:52] <tzanger> Guest57985: it's not BLE, which is good
[15:18:02] <w|zzy> cool
[15:18:19] <Guest57985> hmm
[15:18:37] <Guest57985> tzanger don't see BT2.0EDR in link :( cant find
[15:18:47] <tzanger> no
[15:18:52] <tzanger> er sorry
[15:19:03] <tzanger> it says BT 2.0.E.4 and then BT 2.0 and mentions EDR
[15:19:10] <tzanger> so it's BT 2.0+EDR
[15:19:13] <Guest57985> ou see
[15:20:14] <Guest57985> Enhanced Data Rate (EDR) compliant with V2.0.E.2
[15:20:20] <Guest57985> that line i think..
[15:20:55] * Guest57985 searching for bluegiga
[15:21:49] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest57985: Here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251066012059
[15:23:06] <megal0maniac_afk> I get everything from there
[15:23:13] <Guest57985> megal0maniac_afk no needing for backplane?
[15:24:02] <OndraSter_> when I hear backplane I have to think of some card cage system :D
[15:24:46] <Guest57985> i don't get why there is USB protocol: USB v1.1/2.0. in specs :D
[15:25:15] <megal0maniac_afk> Eh.. Maybe it'll be easier with the other board. Sorry, didn't see that
[15:25:59] <Guest57985> bluegiga is for bigger roomspace as i see
[15:26:33] <Guest57985> w|zzy don't see cheep bluegiga
[15:27:05] <megal0maniac_afk> Get the one you linked to earlier
[15:27:38] <Guest57985> ok thank you all
[15:30:51] <Guest57985> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RS232-TTL-LC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transceiver-Master-Slave-Serial-Port-Module-/300914079186?pt=US_USB_Bluetooth_Adapters_Dongles&hash=item460fe075d2
[15:30:58] <tzanger> Guest57985: that is entirely dependent on the environment including other transmitters / noise sources in the 2.4GHz spectrum
[15:31:39] <Guest57985> i gues this is bluetooth 2.0 so it must be about 20m ? tzanger
[15:31:52] <tzanger> megal0maniac_afk: I've used those exact modules. hard to solder for a beginner
[15:32:03] <tzanger> Guest57985: no... BT2 is not BT class II
[15:32:16] <tzanger> bt classes involve the output amplifier section
[15:32:30] <tzanger> bt spec (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0) are more features and protocol level stuff
[15:32:35] <tzanger> bt classes are how "loud" the module is
[15:33:03] <Guest57985> so there is no info in specs about "loudnes" ?
[15:34:48] <Guest57985> anybody!
[15:34:52] <Guest57985> please help
[15:34:54] <megal0maniac_afk> tzanger: Clamp. Problem solved :) I'd just be worried about those external caps, resistors
[15:35:06] <tzanger> Guest57985: don't worry about it for now
[15:35:13] <Guest57985> can any one tell aproximatelly workind distance for
[15:35:17] <Guest57985> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/RS232-TTL-LC-05-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transceiver-Master-Slave-Serial-Port-Module-/300914079186?pt=US_USB_Bluetooth_Adapters_Dongles&hash=item460fe075d2
[15:35:33] <megal0maniac_afk> It varies greatly
[15:35:33] <Guest57985> tzanger it is wery important
[15:35:45] <Guest57985> in what amplitude?
[15:35:58] <tzanger> Guest57985: if you know about audio amplifiers you will kno wthat there are class A, B, AB, C and D amplifiers ... the class of amplifier does not state how loud (in Watts) it can be.
[15:36:11] <tzanger> that is the same thing as the difference between BT protocol level and class.
[15:36:21] <tzanger> protocol level is "how" it talks. class level is how "loud" it talks.
[15:36:25] <Guest57985> i don't know about audio amplifiers
[15:36:29] <tzanger> Guest57985: no, I can't answer that question for you
[15:36:34] <tzanger> Guest57985: I don't know your physical environment
[15:36:43] <Guest57985> becouse of to small info in specs?
[15:36:58] <Guest57985> tzanger sugest there is open air deep in woods
[15:37:01] <tzanger> Guest57985: no, because it's impossible to give you an answer
[15:37:15] <Guest57985> tzanger sugest there is open air deep in woods
[15:37:18] <tzanger> Guest57985: the module will likely work perfectly fine with it within 10-20m of the computer
[15:37:22] <tzanger> but we can't say for sure
[15:37:31] <Guest57985> ok thanks for that
[15:37:57] <Guest57985> i just needed some aproximatelly numbers to which add +/-200%
[15:38:07] <tzanger> don't worry about it
[15:38:15] <Guest57985> why?
[15:38:21] <tzanger> get it working then come back here saying "ok it's owrking but when I go more than 3 feet from the computer it stops talking"
[15:38:24] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest57985: Like I say to our friend beaky, one thing at a time
[15:38:42] <OndraSter_> haha HAHA friend.
[15:38:49] <tzanger> heh yes, that is excellent advice
[15:38:57] <tzanger> get it working first. then get it working AWESOME
[15:40:00] <Guest57985> ok 5m in concrete room with walls will be enought
[15:40:17] <Guest57985> thank you all
[15:40:29] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter_: We love beaky
[15:40:38] <Guest57985> hope not to ask you anythink again :D
[15:40:51] <Guest57985> goodbye
[15:41:16] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky loves avr
[15:41:26] <Guest57985> does beaky loves asm?
[15:41:29] <tzanger> we're here to help
[15:42:01] <megal0maniac_afk> Guest57985: Not so much, I don't think
[15:42:12] <Guest57985> then whe have nothing similar :D
[15:42:31] <megal0maniac_afk> ...
[15:42:35] <megal0maniac_afk> :)
[15:43:48] <megal0maniac_afk> I need more patience
[15:44:11] <megal0maniac_afk> tzanger: Thank you for exercising yours instead
[15:44:29] <bsdfox\> patience is overrated
[15:44:48] <tzanger> I'm in a good mood, easy to exercise patience
[15:45:21] <tzanger> like I said, he came across as a radio newbie whcih *is* a tough thing to get a handle on... he didn't come across to me like someone looking for handouts, just a toehold to get started
[15:45:25] <OndraSter_> I usually begin with lots of patience
[15:45:32] <OndraSter_> but the other person has to be able to recognize that I have it
[15:45:47] <megal0maniac_afk> lol @ bsdfox\
[15:45:49] <OndraSter_> and that I am giving him some of my time and patience.
[15:45:51] <tzanger> ou should see my linkedin board posts... MOST of those are grumpy old man posts because there's so many "I WANT TO DRIVE STEPPER MOTOR PLEASE TO HELP"
[15:45:54] <tzanger> type posts
[15:46:08] <tzanger> HOW IS BABBY MADE
[15:46:12] <megal0maniac_afk> tzanger: Do you remember molavy?
[15:46:12] <OndraSter_> haha
[15:46:25] <tzanger> no, don't remember that one... might have been before my time
[15:46:41] <OndraSter_> I do remember his name
[15:46:48] <OndraSter_> (mostly because it is a bit similar to my surname)
[15:47:59] <megal0maniac_afk> <molavy> i need develop board using 1.3mp image sensor
[15:48:09] <megal0maniac_afk> <molavy> what is best image sensor in mobile device that fit my needs
[15:48:38] <megal0maniac_afk> Or my personal favourite (from 2 minutes of scanning):
[15:48:39] <megal0maniac_afk> <molavy> i want create my custom webcam using avr
[15:48:39] <megal0maniac_afk> [07:44:39] <molavy> at least 1.3MP resolution
[15:48:40] <megal0maniac_afk> [07:45:09] <molavy> what is best and fast way to create this
[15:49:00] <bsdfox\> lol
[15:49:14] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter_: You told him to buy a webcam
[15:49:30] <OndraSter_> I did? lol
[15:49:51] <OndraSter_> so it seems like I can be a funny fat person sometimes
[15:49:58] <megal0maniac_afk> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23avr/2012-05-23.html
[15:50:08] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter_: And you aren't even murican
[15:50:54] <OndraSter_> exactly!
[15:50:59] <OndraSter_> funny fat and non-murican!
[15:52:38] <megal0maniac_afk> Heh
[15:52:46] <megal0maniac_afk> Okay goodnight for real :)
[15:53:11] <jacekowski> well, you can do webcam on avr32
[15:53:19] <jacekowski> but it's not really cost effective
[15:53:22] <OndraSter_> nn
[15:54:02] <jacekowski> or even avr, with 1fps or less
[15:54:20] <jacekowski> although, xmegas can do dma and shit
[16:37:56] <Raazeer> re
[16:38:03] <Enma_Hinobara> fw
[16:39:06] <Raazeer> I think I'll get another SR04 and see if the output waveform is as botched as with the one I have
[16:40:44] <Raazeer> with the one I have I might as well process the output with the ADC
[16:41:26] <bss36504> Raazeer: What seems to be the problem?
[16:49:54] <Raazeer> bss36504, let me set up the scope quickly an I'll upload a waveform
[16:50:10] <rue_bed> did you know the output of all ultrasonic rangers is messy?
[16:50:22] <bss36504> I await eagerly.
[16:50:37] <bss36504> rue_bed: This one should put out a clean digital signal proportional to the distance
[16:50:43] <bss36504> google SR04
[16:50:50] <rue_bed> its never clean
[16:51:04] <rue_bed> no sensor that dosn't have a major filter in it puts out clean
[16:51:07] <bss36504> What are you talking about? It most certainly is. I've used them
[16:51:21] <bss36504> google SR04
[16:51:45] <rue_bed> your last one worked clean? what kinda field did you point it at?
[16:51:51] <bss36504> digital pulse in, digital pulse out. It has all the acquisition electronics onboard with the ultrasonic transducers.
[16:52:00] <rue_bed> heh
[16:52:13] <rue_bed> its not a trigger and echo line then :)
[16:52:35] <Tom_itx> alot of the new ones are spi or i2c
[16:52:44] <bss36504> rue_bed: http://elecfreaks.com/store/download/HC-SR04.pdf
[16:52:46] <rue_bed> yea, and they have built in filters
[16:53:39] <bss36504> Filtering is irrelevant in this case. Whether or not the samples are consistent is an entirely different issue than the echo line not acting like a digital signal.
[16:53:50] <rue_bed> nothing like watching an IR ranger compeltely fail to see a blue shoe
[16:54:13] <rue_bed> ah, I understood your signals were just all over the map
[16:54:18] <Raazeer> bss36504, moment, having discussions with scope about usb memory...
[16:54:55] <bss36504> Raazeer: haha, speak gently, and use positive reinforcement
[16:56:30] <Raazeer> bss36504, I'll speak gently and carry a big screwdriver in a minute...
[16:57:22] <bss36504> just be careful not to permanently damage her, or else you'll never get anything :P
[16:59:09] <rue_bed> bss36504, I shoudl mention thats the exact same module I thought it was
[16:59:15] <rue_bed> the $1 from china
[16:59:23] <rue_bed> with trigger and echo
[16:59:43] <bss36504> hmm, I've had good luck with them, and the parallax 3 wire ones as well
[16:59:58] <rue_bed> dont the parallax ones have analog out?
[17:00:17] <bss36504> no, they use a bidirectional pulse/echo pin
[17:00:31] <rue_bed> bss so, this is the first one of these you have used?
[17:00:39] <rue_bed> your using untested code?
[17:01:10] <bss36504> Oh, it's not my problem. I was waiting for Raazeer to get back to us with his scope capture.
[17:01:18] <rue_bed> hah, sorry
[17:01:23] <bss36504> I used both varieties a while ago
[17:01:26] <bss36504> no problem
[17:01:30] <rue_bed> huh
[17:02:13] <rue_bed> ultrasonsics given me scratchy, jittery results
[17:02:18] <rue_bed> and IR ranging sucked
[17:03:09] <bss36504> Well you'd still need to implement some sort of averaging, but my experience is that the results are usually in the right ballpark.. Either way, Raazeer shouldnt be getting an analog looking signal on that echo pin
[17:03:57] <rue_bed> unless somehow he got an analog version
[17:05:41] <Raazeer> http://picpaste.com/fOeEMV8N.bmp bss36504 try this link, see if it works
[17:09:07] <Raazeer> bss36504, here is another link in cas etho other one doesn't work: http://goo.gl/5lYKuW
[17:19:27] <Raazeer> bss36504, any ideas?
[17:21:48] <bss36504> Raazeer: um....
[17:21:49] <bss36504> hmmm
[17:22:35] <bss36504> Ok, scope is DC coupled? Are both systems sharing a ground?
[17:22:59] <bsdfox\> looks like a grounding issue to me
[17:24:33] <Raazeer> bss,no scope is ac coupled
[17:24:55] <Raazeer> and yes, ground is connected.
[17:26:08] <bsdfox\> not that it should cause the problem but you should be dc coupled
[17:27:04] <Raazeer> hm, it does look better when the scope is dc coupled
[17:29:06] <bss36504> Yeah, definitely make it DC coupled
[17:34:13] <Raazeer> the other thing is that if it doesn't get any echo, it still pulls the echo output high, but not really low again until trigger is pulled high again
[17:35:57] <bss36504> Alright, so you can put a timeout in your software since it's only rated to 400cm
[17:37:15] <Raazeer> bss36504, the trouble is, the wall is closer than 400cm
[17:38:55] <Raazeer> I think it behaves that way if it gets too many separate echos, like when the soundwaves are projected along a table top
[17:40:02] <Raazeer> I guess i'll have to install a ribbon cable and test some more with the sensor detached
[17:40:03] <bss36504> hmm...well at any rate, a timeout wouldn't be that bad of an idea. Granted, the datasheet isn't that helpful in these matters.
[17:40:40] <Raazeer> bss36504, thankfully I don't need precision but only a rough closer/farther decision
[17:40:59] <bss36504> that is fortunate
[17:41:34] <Raazeer> it must make sure the garage door doesn't close with the rear door of the car open
[17:41:40] <bss36504> I remember that my results weren't exactly precision, but certainly useable.
[17:41:54] <bss36504> oh gotcha. How about a laser system?
[17:41:58] <Raazeer> else the door will jam closed and we'd have to take a chainsaw to it.
[17:42:13] <Raazeer> naw, laser would be overkill.
[17:42:16] <bss36504> and it probably wouldnt be good for the car.
[17:42:47] <Raazeer> bss36504, that too, but we wouldn't have to take the chainsaw to the car so I'd say it couldn't complain compared to the door
[17:42:59] <bss36504> haha good point
[17:43:13] <Raazeer> actually all I need to know is "an object is within 70cm or no object is within 70 cm
[17:44:03] <Raazeer> the sensor will be attached to the inside of the garage door and look down
[17:44:17] <Raazeer> when the garage door is open that is.
[17:44:45] <Raazeer> and now I'll have to switch the sensor off again, it's drivingt the cats up the wall
[17:46:14] <bss36504> Computer decided to crap out. I didn't abandon you.
[18:36:05] <john_f> is avrfreaks dead?
[18:36:25] <Tom_itx> it's never been real reliable
[18:36:38] <john_f> or just my two samples this month failed.
[23:13:46] <tzanger> holy shit
[23:13:48] <tzanger> I think I got it
[23:13:52] <tzanger> http://mixdown.ca/dump/trig.png and trigsim.png
[23:14:09] <tzanger> instead of grounding the gate I can drive it to the rail and it will fire in both quadrants
[23:14:30] <bss36504> not really sure what I'm looking at here :P
[23:14:35] <bss36504> triacs?
[23:15:03] <tzanger> yeah
[23:15:11] <bss36504> whats the end game here?
[23:15:33] <tzanger> the lefthand side of the circuit is my offline supply; it "floats" ground 5V below the 24VAC "hot"
[23:15:43] <tzanger> that powers the AVR
[23:16:05] <tzanger> the righthand side is the triac which delivers 24VAC to the relay (Rload) when it's triggered
[23:16:32] <tzanger> I was driving the triac in quadrant 3 but during half of the cycle I couldn't generate enough trigger voltage to make it fire
[23:16:40] <tzanger> so I was only giving the relay half the sinewave and it would buzz
[23:17:22] <tzanger> if I drive it high instead of low I'm able to drive it in quadrant 1 and 3 (I think have to check) and it delives both halves of the sine wave
[23:17:29] <bss36504> So wait, youre actually moving the ground with respect to the 24VAC just to maintain 5VDC on the mcu? and are you driving this relay with AC? An odd choice I think.
[23:17:55] <tzanger> S1/V2 simulate the AVR io port
[23:18:07] <tzanger> bss36504: yes, I float ground ~5V below the 24VAC
[23:18:28] <bss36504> ahh! Why? I mean, it's cool, but why not just rectify it like a normal person?
[23:18:54] <tzanger> I have a tiny power supply then (only has to power the AVR and ~1ms of gate current) and I use the triac to drive the relay so I don't need a big power supply able to supply the coil current
[23:18:58] <tzanger> cost
[23:19:05] <tzanger> it's a very cost driven circuit
[23:19:29] <tzanger> if I rectified it like a normal person then the power supply would have to be strong enough to drive the relay coils
[23:20:08] <tzanger> right now the supply only has to drive the AVR and a few microamps of gate trigger current (since I only trigger them for a couple hundred microseconds, enough to turn them on)
[23:20:13] <tzanger> the AVR sleeps most of the time
[23:20:24] <bss36504> well, I didnt mean rectify the load voltage (the one across the triac) per se, but just the MCU power supply.
[23:20:59] <tzanger> well I can do that too, but now my AVR references neutral which gave other issues
[23:22:51] <bss36504> So why are you trying to trigger in quadrants I and III? wouldnt I and IV be better? then you can use a positive voltage to drive the gate, and the load still sees a sinusoidal wave.
[23:24:01] <bss36504> Just curious btw, I don't really have enough info about the application to judge, and I'm really tired.
[23:27:40] <tzanger> well quadrant 1 is when MT2/G are positive with respect to MT1; the positive half cycles are firing in that quadrant. you're right, it's quadrant 4 which is tackling the negative half cycles
[23:28:18] <bss36504> Oh ok, I was gonna say, Q-I AND Q-III seems a bit more tricky than necessary.
[23:28:21] <tzanger> before it was quadrant 2 and 3 that I was trying to use, and I couldn't develop enough gate voltage in quadrant 2
[23:28:38] <tzanger> I'm just stoked that it works, at least in sim
[23:29:05] <bss36504> so you just need to swtich on an off an AC current to a relay?
[23:29:11] <bss36504> switch*
[23:30:44] <tzanger> yes
[23:31:07] <bss36504> why AC? for a relay drive that seems unusual.
[23:31:22] <tzanger> well as I said, for DC I'd have to beef up the supply considerably
[23:31:40] <tzanger> the circuit does a lot more (reading inputs, counting cycles, driving LEDs) but this was the heart of it
[23:32:34] <bss36504> In fact, I'd be concerned. On the positive half of the cycle, the relay will close, then on the negative half of the cycle, it will be forcibly opened, or something to that effect. Wont that cause an issue?
[23:32:46] <tzanger> it's an AC relay
[23:32:57] <bss36504> Oh, thats a thing....huh, the more you know
[23:33:16] <bss36504> Industrial controls are not my most well learned topic
[23:33:22] <tzanger> yeah. coils are coils, but AC relays usually have "shader" coils which slow down the magnetic collapse and prevent it from chattering
[23:33:31] <bss36504> Alright, that makes sense.
[23:33:53] <bss36504> Well cool, glad you got it working.
[23:33:57] <tzanger> me too!
[23:34:08] <bss36504> How exactly are you keeping the mcu ground at -5V from the supply?
[23:34:13] <tzanger> this is one of the smallest circuits I've ever built but it's caused me the most grief
[23:34:18] <tzanger> I'm not
[23:34:25] <bss36504> haha that's the way it is.
[23:34:26] <tzanger> I have VCC connected to the 24VAC hot
[23:34:34] <tzanger> then I "dangle" ground 5V below that
[23:34:44] <bss36504> right, but the mcu ground is -5 with respect to the 24VAC.
[23:34:53] <bss36504> we're saying the same thing I think.
[23:34:53] <tzanger> so if you can visualize it, the 5VDC is riding the 24VAC
[23:35:03] <bss36504> right, but how did you create that difference?
[23:35:11] <tzanger> oh, that's the left hand side of the circuit
[23:35:11] <bss36504> zener?
[23:35:25] <bss36504> I didnt see a circuit, just a waveform
[23:35:26] <tzanger> http://mixdown.ca/dump/trigsim.png
[23:35:39] <bss36504> ooh LTSpice, nice
[23:35:46] <tzanger> I really, really dislike ltspice's schematic entry
[23:37:29] <bss36504> well thats certainly interesting, I like it.
[23:37:30] <tzanger> 'night. now I can sleep.
[23:37:45] <tzanger> yeah it's a neat little circuit.
[23:38:20] <bss36504> not sure what R1 and C1 are doing
[23:38:33] <tzanger> R1 and C1 are limiting current
[23:38:41] <tzanger> R1 is just a surge arrester for C1
[23:38:46] <bss36504> gotcha
[23:38:58] <bss36504> well very cool, seems like it should* work
[23:39:00] <Casper> look like I might have to use an overkill fet for what I want to do :(
[23:39:02] <tzanger> C1 is designed so its Xc limits the current without burning up a lot of power in heat
[23:39:42] <tzanger> it does work well, you dial C1 for the current limit you want and you adjust R1 to be as low as possible while providing some surge current limiting for C1
[23:39:53] <tzanger> I can probably take it way down, those are just experimental values
[23:39:56] <Casper> 22mohms 49A... for only 1A load :/
[23:39:56] <bss36504> Oooh I see now. you're limiting current without really wasting power. Very smart
[23:40:06] <tzanger> and 4k7 really makes the supply punk out
[23:40:36] <tzanger> it takes something like 0.9s for the supply to get up to 4.7V
[23:40:54] <tzanger> anyway, time for bed for me
[23:41:01] <tzanger> gotta get up in 6h
[23:41:10] <bss36504> G'Night. Time for me too, in about the same time I'll be up as well
[23:41:19] <bss36504> Casper: what are you making?
[23:41:42] <Casper> bss36504: a led dimmer, 555 based :D
[23:41:58] <Casper> 12V 1A
[23:41:59] <bss36504> what in god's name could possibly draw 49 amps?
[23:42:14] <Casper> but that's the only fet I have on hand that is suitable :(
[23:42:21] <bss36504> besides a huge refrigerator or something...
[23:42:34] <Casper> well
[23:42:43] <Casper> your cpu use more than that in amps
[23:42:52] <bss36504> good point, but at like <1V
[23:42:58] <bss36504> and not on one pin
[23:43:24] <Casper> the issue is: it will be in a non-vented, heatsinkless, plastic enclosure
[23:43:34] <bss36504> What's making you go with a 555?
[23:43:36] <Casper> that will run like 12 hours in a row
[23:43:46] <Casper> just need a slow PWM dimmer
[23:43:46] <bss36504> why not an attiny with PWM and a FET
[23:44:34] <bss36504> so is your string of LEDs drawing 49A?
[23:45:01] <Casper> no, 1A
[23:45:07] <bss36504> oh ok.
[23:45:25] <bss36504> ohhh, I misread your original statement. It's late haha
[23:45:39] <bss36504> you HAVE a 49A FET, you dont need one.
[23:47:34] <bss36504> I'm gonna head out, night all.