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[02:39:55] <Gerritjan> Any Dutch people here?
[03:04:21] <blathijs> Gerritjan: \o
[03:04:47] <Gerritjan> Hey blathijs
[03:07:14] <blathijs> Hey :-)
[03:08:04] <Gerritjan> Vrij blathijs
[03:09:51] <blathijs> Gerritjan: hm?
[07:14:15] <megal0maniac_afk> Wow. Website doesn't allow password with a # in it :/
[07:15:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Except it doesn't know that it doesn't allow it. It seems like the # is seen as a token, so if your password contains # then the # and everything after it are cut
[07:28:58] <Tom_itx> so use it as the last character :D
[07:33:12] <megal0maniac_afk> If it exists, then it breaks it. Can't quite figure out how
[07:38:26] <malinus> megal0maniac_afk, which website?
[07:41:25] <megal0maniac_afk> malinus: It's an internal page for an ISP. It's a frontend for cPanel, and it falls down when you try and change your cpanel password
[08:17:23] <Brittany_> Hey guys, wondering if anyone can get me started on a project. I'm working with an m644p and decided I wanna try and generate a sine wave to output to a speaker. Does anyone have a nice resource I could use?
[08:18:22] <Tom_itx> you will need some sort of DAC
[08:20:11] <Tom_itx> app note 314 may shed some light
[08:20:23] <Tom_itx> also 131
[08:21:09] <Tom_itx> or get an xplained board and it will have it on there with a demo
[08:21:33] <Tom_itx> app note 1508
[08:22:11] <Tom_itx> but you've already got the 644p
[08:22:45] <Tom_itx> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc2542.pdf
[08:25:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc1982.pdf
[09:31:00] <Maxoul> Hi, I'm having a "avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1" issue with an TinyAVR Programmer and an ATtiny85 and I don't know where to start
[09:31:42] <Maxoul> At least, my programmer is known by Windows as a "USBTiny"
[09:33:20] <Maxoul> And I may have written a 20Mhz extern clock bootloader to the t85 in Arduino software yesterday. If so, can I make something or it is "burn" (means will not work with an external clock added on the right pin) ?
[09:43:03] <beaky> hello
[09:43:27] <beaky> where should i put decoupling caps on an atmega328p
[09:43:59] <beaky> atm i have one across vcc and one across avcc
[09:44:05] <beaky> i.e. all of the VCC pins
[09:44:22] <beaky> and if i were to have an external xtal I would have one across each lead of my xtal
[09:47:43] <megal0maniac> beaky: Nobody is going to answer you if you keep asking stuff that's clearly explained in the datasheet
[09:49:07] <Maxoul> CMD: [ac 53 00 00] [00 00 00 00]
[09:49:08] <Maxoul> CMD: [ac 53 00 00] [00 00 00 00] seems like the tiny85 not responding at all.
[10:19:27] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: How's gdp coming along?
[10:19:38] <megal0maniac> Getting stuck with anything?
[10:20:18] <abcminiuser> No time this week, everyone's wanted to go out every night :(
[10:20:31] <abcminiuser> Perhaps later this evening, once dinner and the stupid brownies are done
[10:28:56] <rue_house> ENCOURAGE PEOPLE OR WE WILL SQUASH YOU.
[10:29:10] <rue_house> whats in the datasheet we can read for you?
[10:30:00] <rue_house> beaky, ?
[10:31:51] <beaky> im just wondering if i should put caps on the PWM outputs
[10:32:06] <beaky> maybe an LC filter?
[10:35:37] <beaky> also are there better ways to set the top count besides assigning to TCNT0
[10:47:00] <megal0maniac> beaky: Depends on which PWM mode you want to use, which depends on the application
[10:47:10] <rue_house> not if your trying to use them for pwm
[10:47:52] <beaky> i will use fast mode, which the datasheet recommends for active rectification and power supply switching
[10:48:11] <megal0maniac> So do that then
[10:48:25] <beaky> the complementary outputs of my tiny avr is really handy for synchronous switching
[10:49:02] <tzanger> beaky: tiny avr has complimentary outputs?
[10:49:11] <tzanger> PWM?
[10:49:21] <beaky> yes
[10:49:38] <tzanger> nice. having the hardware handle it is the only way to get nice tight coupling
[10:50:17] <beaky> even has dead time generator, which sounds macabre but is probably handy for preventing things blowing up or something
[10:50:22] <tzanger> I remember the VFD stuff I worked on we had to have the delays for the high side driver and low side driver as close as possible for the same reason
[10:50:40] <tzanger> I mean delays through the actual hardware/analog drivers for the IGBTs
[10:54:34] <rue_house> hmm dont recall compl channels
[10:54:43] <rue_house> which avr you lookin at?
[10:55:03] <beaky> attiny85
[10:55:20] <beaky> OC1A, OC1A bar, OC1B, and OC1B bar
[10:55:55] <beaky> theres also OC0A and OC0B but they dont have compeltematnayr bar version
[10:59:49] <megal0maniac> beaky: The bar is the logic symbol for active low, or inverted. That's why the RESET pin on an AVR has a bar, as it is active low
[11:01:00] <beaky> ah
[11:03:38] <DanFrederiksen> do you guys trust micros to do mission critical stuff, say PWM for a switchmode supply, or do you try to use a 555 or other config that doesn't have software?
[11:03:59] <DanFrederiksen> so cosmic radiation can't mess it up
[11:04:51] <megal0maniac> DanFrederiksen: a micro with properly written and tested code is just as reliable as a 555
[11:05:02] <megal0maniac> If not more so, since it relies on less external components
[11:05:09] <DanFrederiksen> megal0maniac, including cosmic radiation?
[11:06:30] <DanFrederiksen> it's for a battery charger for electric cars and if it overcharges the battery it could cause fires and death
[11:06:49] <megal0maniac> DanFrederiksen: That's why things are designed to fail safe
[11:06:59] <DanFrederiksen> I suppose it can just be engineered for failure modes. never rely on perfect operation
[11:07:03] <DanFrederiksen> yeah
[11:07:45] <DanFrederiksen> megal0maniac, have you done power electronics? what would you do? crowbar and fuse?
[11:08:02] <DanFrederiksen> watchdog?
[11:08:11] <DanFrederiksen> explosive bolts :)
[11:08:34] <A124> http://www.phrack.org/issues.html?issue=7&id=3
[11:08:41] <megal0maniac> A little. And watchdog is good because it has its own osc
[11:08:44] <A124> Wrong channel, lol
[11:09:11] <megal0maniac> Aaaaaaaaah!
[11:09:13] <megal0maniac> NSFW!
[11:15:37] <beaky> so to make a reliable smps, an attiny wont cut it?
[11:16:03] <beaky> yeah even the most finite of finite state machines can be vulnerable to being flipped by the comsmos
[11:17:03] <beaky> what can i do
[11:17:48] <megal0maniac> Make a binary clock
[11:18:03] <beaky> binary clock
[11:18:12] <megal0maniac> binary clock
[11:18:52] <beaky> but how will that make my sps more robust
[11:19:22] <megal0maniac> Oh. That had nothing to do with smps. That was just something you could do
[11:19:24] <megal0maniac> A project
[11:19:28] <beaky> ah
[11:19:33] <DanFrederiksen> hehe
[11:20:07] <DanFrederiksen> I think the conclusion we reached was it was ok to use a micro but you need to design the circuit such that if it all crashes then it fails safely
[11:20:43] <DanFrederiksen> fuse and crowbar circuit is one safety mechanism
[11:21:11] <beaky> ah
[11:21:15] <beaky> ok i have a 5A fuse
[11:21:19] <beaky> but whats a crowbar
[11:21:20] <DanFrederiksen> basically analyze the ways it can totally fuck up and design such that such a scenario wont burn the house down
[11:21:44] <DanFrederiksen> a crowbar circuit is one that short circuits the output in case of overvoltage such that it forces the fuse to blow
[11:21:54] <beaky> btw what does "encourage people or we wil squash you" mean?
[11:22:04] <beaky> ah
[11:22:04] <DanFrederiksen> don't be mean to noobs
[11:22:11] <beaky> oh :D
[11:22:33] <DanFrederiksen> only a fool thinks being a noob is wrong
[11:23:08] <DanFrederiksen> noobs grow into geniuses
[11:23:18] <DanFrederiksen> some of them do :)
[11:37:55] <rue_house> DanFrederiksen, your back
[11:38:25] <rue_house> yea some noobs just circle at the same level forever
[11:38:51] <rue_house> beaky, its not good to have a microcontrolled smps loop
[11:39:05] <beaky> ah
[11:39:08] <beaky> why not? :(
[11:39:21] <rue_house> beaky, the tl494 and uc3842 chips are great dedicated smps controllers
[11:39:53] <rue_house> every so often a microcontroller goes wrong, and in 1 cycle of something going wrong in an smps, smoke can come out
[11:40:18] <rue_house> then again, you could have an hour counter and make it smoke after a set number of operation hours
[11:41:05] <beaky> but uCs are reliable enough to control cars, so i guess they work for smps too
[11:41:26] <beaky> or is that different?
[11:42:21] <rue_house> they dont control the brakes or steering enough to not do what you insist on
[11:42:42] <tzanger> beaky: the uCs used to control cars are not your typical UCs either.
[11:42:45] <beaky> dont dedicated smps chips go wrong too?
[11:43:10] <tzanger> look at the Cortex-R series. Redundant memory, rotated cores... there's more than just bit flipping going on
[11:43:16] <rue_house> yes, but they are 100x more reliable than a microcontroller
[11:43:54] <tzanger> hell I think it's TI which has an MCU which has two cores that are clock-locked. One runs 4 cycles behind the other and is used to verify the computation of the first
[11:44:48] <beaky> wow this whole time i had no doubts my attiny was reliable :(
[11:45:10] <beaky> it doesn't do any verifying bits or redundancy
[11:46:25] <OndraSter_> lol
[11:46:50] <OndraSter_> even in your computer if you don't have ECC memory, there are a few corrupted bits per day
[11:46:57] <OndraSter_> based on some intergalactic math
[11:47:04] <beaky> yeah i guess i shouldn't use avr for a pacemaker or a spaceship or a smps
[11:47:19] <OndraSter_> xrd
[11:47:21] <OndraSter_> yes
[11:47:35] <beaky> how does my pc handle those corrupted bits?
[11:47:58] <OndraSter_> it does not
[11:48:01] <beaky> :(
[11:48:23] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter_: Could you throw me an xide binary? :D
[11:48:29] <beaky> so analog circuitry will be better than avr?
[11:48:37] <beaky> for a smps*
[11:49:05] <OndraSter_> megal0maniac_afk, sure, but it requries stuff (gcc) around it.. and it only compiles, does not flash
[11:49:16] <OndraSter_> no, dedicated SMPS controller will be a better than AVR beaky
[11:49:34] <beaky> but a smps controller wont let me digitally vary the output of my converter
[11:49:56] <OndraSter_> well it won't
[11:49:59] <OndraSter_> but you can get around that
[11:50:02] <OndraSter_> (tip: digital pots)
[11:50:45] <megal0maniac_afk> That's okay
[11:51:21] <megal0maniac_afk> I just want to check it out. I can't compile because VS wants a re-install and I don't have the ISO anymore :/
[11:51:49] <OndraSter_> oh
[11:51:51] <OndraSter_> sec
[11:51:57] <megal0maniac_afk> ta
[11:52:00] <OndraSter_> not sure if it will launch without the required stuff :
[11:52:01] <OndraSter_> :D
[11:52:09] <OndraSter_> let me find the original debug folder
[11:55:50] <OndraSter_> megal0maniac_afk,
http://temp.myxboard.net/workdir.7z -- contains everything, compiles stuff :D
[11:56:02] <OndraSter_> (built against .NET 3.5 or 3.0 IIRC)
[11:56:12] <OndraSter_> should run on linux as well (Mono), but won't compile (obviously)
[11:56:18] <N1njaneer> megal0maniac_afk: Durr... sorry. I JUST saw your PM's right now :(
[11:57:25] <megal0maniac_afk> N1njaneer: No worries, I think I killed it :)
[11:58:02] <megal0maniac_afk> I would have made more noise otherwise ;)
[11:58:12] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter_: Thanks. How big is the zip?
[11:58:53] <OndraSter_> 13MB
[11:58:55] <N1njaneer> Awesome! Congrats!
[11:58:59] <megal0maniac_afk> 2.7mb and counting
[11:58:59] <megal0maniac_afk> Ah
[11:59:00] <OndraSter_> or 13.5
[11:59:01] <OndraSter_> or thereabouts
[11:59:04] <megal0maniac_afk> Your server wouldn't tell me
[11:59:09] <OndraSter_> it is not my server :D
[11:59:13] <OndraSter_> it is some freehosting
[11:59:20] <OndraSter_> (yes, I have not moved myxboard.net to my VPS)
[12:02:45] <megal0maniac_afk> D:
[12:02:55] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: Dat compression!
[12:06:13] <OndraSter_> megal0maniac, IKR!
[12:06:20] <OndraSter_> and I did not increase the dictionary size even :P
[12:09:47] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: The aery32 uses a similar thing. Simplified framework, but not like Ardweenie :)
[12:10:02] <megal0maniac> http://aery32.readthedocs.org/en/latest/#module-functions
[12:10:18] <OndraSter_> :)
[12:15:22] <megal0maniac> It's quite nice. And small. And the makefile automatically uses flip to program the board using DFU
[12:15:40] <megal0maniac> So you run "make program start" and it compiles, uploads and starts the program
[12:21:54] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: What the hell?
[12:22:02] <megal0maniac> Projects\nuclear bomb.cpp
[12:22:22] <megal0maniac> There's a space in the filename
[12:22:51] <OndraSter_> so?
[12:23:09] <bitd> Bad OndraSter_ :P
[12:23:13] <megal0maniac> Also, nuclear bomb
[12:23:27] <OndraSter_> I am on windows, I haz no issues with spaces
[12:23:37] <bitd> OH GOD.
[12:23:43] <bitd> Windows and spaced filenames.
[12:23:49] <bitd> My only weakness <.<
[12:24:43] <bitd> I use camelCase for all of my files.
[12:26:01] <megal0maniac> Good bitd
[12:26:05] <megal0maniac> Bad OndraSter_
[12:26:10] <megal0maniac> Nice xide
[12:26:16] <megal0maniac> Except for the broken parts
[12:26:29] <OndraSter_> unfinished*
[12:26:46] <megal0maniac> Well yeah :P
[12:27:13] <bitd> Oke, so I have a choker coil with 6 pins.
[12:27:16] <bitd> How to wire <.<
[12:27:20] <bitd> http://www.conrad.nl/ce/nl/product/516643
[12:29:42] <megal0maniac> bitd: Get yourself some Drosselspulenbausatz
[12:30:10] <megal0maniac> Oh wow that doesn't help at all
[12:31:59] <bitd> I did that <.<
[12:36:05] <megal0maniac> Oh lame. This digital pot is I2C, not SPI
[12:42:37] <OndraSter_> I don't see any issue
[12:43:00] <OndraSter_> unless you are doing >400Kbps :D
[12:43:04] <OndraSter_> err
[12:43:09] <OndraSter_> or thereabouts
[12:43:24] <OndraSter_> actually
[12:43:25] <OndraSter_> much less
[12:45:18] <megal0maniac> Easier to code SPI
[12:45:20] <megal0maniac> I think
[12:46:16] <OndraSter_> well yes
[13:18:18] <ColdKeyboard> Can someone suggest good circuit simulator (that works with Win7) that can do DC and Transient analasis (with components like BJT, LEDs, etc) ? :)
[13:19:25] <megal0maniac> Orcad pspice?
[13:23:13] <ColdKeyboard> Is there a stand-alone version or possibly free/student version?
[13:24:39] <megal0maniac> ColdKeyboard: Yip. The lite version is free. I think they call it a trial, but it's not time limited, just limited in how big your projects can be
[13:26:26] <ColdKeyboard> That's great, thank you very much :)
[13:28:37] <megal0maniac> Cool :) It's a bit of a pain to use, but quite capable
[13:29:18] <beaky> wow its amazing how companies that just let you paste 140-character messages are worth more than companies that fabricate wonderful devices like microcontrollers
[13:29:33] <beaky> oops wrong channel
[13:31:35] <kdehl> How much do you need to pay for a cheap basic car insurance in the US.
[13:31:53] <kdehl> I know you can't generalize it like that, but let's do it anyway.
[13:32:02] <kdehl> That was a question, not a statement...
[13:32:38] <kdehl> I hate having too much chocolate and coke at home. I can't stop devour it until it's all gone...
[13:46:36] <megal0maniac> AS(d)F actually looks pretty cool
[14:02:07] <Fornaxian> kdehl, I pay about 150 every 6 months for my truck insurance but it's full coverage.
[14:04:45] <kdehl> Fornaxian: Sounds quite cheap to me.
[14:04:48] <megal0maniac> They want to charge me ~$55 a month for my bike. It's only worth $3000 in the first place O.O
[14:05:08] <Fornaxian> kdehl, it is.
[14:05:27] <OndraSter_> I pay $220/year for my car, basic insurance (but not in the US
[14:05:28] <Fornaxian> I also live in the boonies, middle of nowheresville back behind the cornfields in iowa.
[14:05:35] <OndraSter_> and I have a license only for a year and something now
[14:06:20] <Fornaxian> ok..back to worky.
[14:06:38] <megal0maniac> Actually my car costs around $60 a month. And it's a cheap car. And I've had my license for 3 and a half years
[14:06:50] <megal0maniac> Sheesh I'm getting royally screwed
[14:06:58] * megal0maniac makes plans to move to EU
[14:07:03] <megal0maniac> Or Colorado
[14:07:07] <Mr_Sheesh> I didn't do it.
[14:07:26] <megal0maniac> Mr_Sheesh: No I was just letting you know ;)
[14:07:38] <Mr_Sheesh> aah!
[14:08:03] <specing> OndraSter_: only a year?
[14:08:12] <specing> OndraSter_: do you have that course to take?
[14:08:48] <kdehl> OndraSter_: Where?
[14:10:01] <w|zzy> megal0maniac: that's not bad. it costs 1500 A year to register and insure a similarly priced car.
[14:10:20] <megal0maniac> w|zzy: There and the UK I think are worse
[14:10:40] <megal0maniac> Although vehicles are more expensive here in general ;)
[14:11:16] <OndraSter_> kdehl, czech republic
[14:11:22] <OndraSter_> specing, I did, a year ago :D
[14:12:02] <specing> OndraSter_: so why didn't you get a full licence (50 years or so?)
[14:12:07] <OndraSter_> huh?
[14:12:08] <OndraSter_> I did
[14:12:13] <OndraSter_> but I did it 1 year ago
[14:12:17] <OndraSter_> so I am paying high insurance
[14:12:25] <OndraSter_> 10 years from now it will be way cheaper
[14:12:26] <specing> oh, that is /past/
[14:12:34] * N1njaneer starts selling AVR Insurance
[14:12:38] <OndraSter_> did I use the wrong tense? :D
[14:12:38] <specing> I thought that one year is meant into the future
[14:12:41] <OndraSter_> no
[14:12:44] <specing> perhaps
[14:12:47] <specing> or I'm tired
[14:13:07] <N1njaneer> OndraSter_: You are using my favorite tense! Plu-perfect! :D
[14:13:19] <N1njaneer> Er actually no, not quite :)
[14:13:20] <N1njaneer> But close.
[14:13:28] * N1njaneer gives cookies anywas :)
[14:13:46] <kdehl> OndraSter_: Ah.
[14:15:25] <OndraSter_> Plu-perfect?!
[14:15:35] <OndraSter_> and yey cookies
[14:17:38] <N1njaneer> OndraSter_: Actually future-perfect is my favorite as in "I will have completed the work by tonight"
[14:18:17] <OndraSter_> haha
[14:18:18] <OndraSter_> yes
[14:18:48] <N1njaneer> I actually confused future-perfect for pluperfect, but now I have them straightened out.
[14:19:10] <specing> I always ragequitted when it was time to learn tenses
[14:19:39] <specing> got one or two Fs in highschool because of that...
[14:20:01] <N1njaneer> Eh, it's all gramatical stuff that unless you're writing and things you generally don't need to know. Like proper use of reflexive pronouns, which was a bad habit of mine until a friend helped break me of it.
[14:21:55] <N1njaneer> OndraSter_: (For completion of topic, Wikipedia cites "had thought" and "had reached" as examples of pluperfect tenst. I suppose the ever awkward "had had" would also be. Basically they are things that are more than perfect/completed, with the 'had' tacked on, blah blah blah)
[14:25:17] <N1njaneer> Yes I'm a geek.
[14:26:41] <N1njaneer> And it's my birthday today, too!
[14:27:25] <N1njaneer> Birthday cake for everyone in here who isn't idle.
[14:27:35] <N1njaneer> That should mean we only need about 3 pieces.
[14:28:14] <N1njaneer> Inkjetduino!
[14:28:34] <inkjetunito> the dutch ninja
[14:34:45] <N1njaneer> BSSS!!!!
[14:35:07] <bss36504> N1njaneer!!
[14:35:32] <bss36504> What's crackin'?
[14:36:42] <N1njaneer> Finally got my gmac problem figured out for transmitting packets, so now my evolving network stack properly answers ARP requests! :D
[14:36:48] <cplcpu> hello
[14:37:03] <bss36504> Ooh how fancy. Sounds like you're making good progress
[14:38:19] <bss36504> Here's a question for the group: What can you do with 4MB of memory? I need to come up with some more demo/application projects. Thumb drive has been done, works pretty well. I need something new that the general population can identify with.
[14:39:13] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Yeah, parsing apart IP now too, hopefully will get ICMP going this evening so I can answer ping requests, then UDP so I can get DHCP functional :)
[14:39:32] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Hmmm......
[14:40:11] <bss36504> Thats pretty good progress in a short period of time. What are you using for hardware?
[14:43:28] <N1njaneer> SAM4E16
[14:43:51] <N1njaneer> I've had it parsing packets for quite some time now, but there was a PHY config problem and I couldn't send anything. X.x
[14:48:01] <bss36504> Thats pretty sweet. A while back I was looking at making networked cluster of chip testers all PoE supplied and server controlled. I wasnt going to implement a complete PHY and stack though, I was going to use the Wiznet chip and an MCU to handle that. Then, unfortunately, our chinese design group though it was a great idea and stole all the key points from me and made a cut down version, so I never got to see it to fruition.
[14:49:51] <N1njaneer> The Wiznet chipsets are pretty cool with implementing a basic stack right on-board, and if you can live with the limitations imposed by that methodology, it's certainly a great way to go.
[14:51:14] <N1njaneer> There's still some nice, inexpensive 10/100 MAC/PHY combo chips that will take a parallel bus that I've recently found and would like to experiment with. The SAM4E is great in having the MAC on-board, but you still need an off-board PHY, and you are limited to one port. With the external chips you can easily do 2 or more Ethernet connections and just talk to it via a normal bus. This prospect
[14:51:14] <N1njaneer> excites me greatly :D
[15:00:41] <bss36504> Yeah i was just going to do some very rudimentary socket communication, nothing too fancy. Then I planned on using the Wiznet's SPI interface just for simplicity. I actually also wanted to use a CPLD for the high speed timing requirements, with an offboard MCU to do the more complex communication stuff.
[15:03:35] <N1njaneer> Good stuff!!
[15:04:19] <bss36504> Oh yeah, it WOULD have been cool, but they took it. As you can see, I'm still a little bit bothered about it. Fortunately, none of them work for the company now.
[15:04:43] <bss36504> Anyway, what to make for a new demo. I was thinking a voice or video recorder
[15:04:53] <bss36504> Problem is, 4MB really isn't that much space
[15:04:54] <N1njaneer> Mmm, go off and do it yourself, better, and make bajillions.
[15:05:19] <bss36504> 1Bajillion USD by the time I'm 40 is my goal
[15:06:50] <N1njaneer> bss: Mmm, take the 4MB of space, make it in to a 5792 x 5792 grid of bits, then run Conway's Game Of Life on it.
[15:07:21] <bss36504> I dont know if people (shareholders) could really relate to that the same way we could :P
[15:07:28] <N1njaneer> LOL exactly
[15:07:35] <N1njaneer> Was this the persistent memory?
[15:07:53] <bss36504> "look guys, I PROMISE that it is doing something cool, you just cant see it"
[15:08:00] <N1njaneer> You could....
[15:08:01] <bss36504> Yeah, this is non-volatile
[15:08:45] <bss36504> fast access times, single byte modify-able. It's like a flash and an EEPROM had a child. Serial flash density, EEPROM access
[15:08:52] <N1njaneer> Dissolve the surface of the chip off, then add a lens to it, and some bright-ass UV lights to illuminate some subject matter, and make it in to a crappy CMOS sensor
[15:09:11] <N1njaneer> What's the rewrite lifetime?
[15:09:20] <bss36504> 10^7
[15:09:28] <bss36504> at this stage, anyway.
[15:09:29] <N1njaneer> Wow, that's not bad.
[15:09:48] <bss36504> It's still a prototype, and realistically, we dont see that yet. That's like one or two cells worth of data
[15:10:00] <N1njaneer> Well, you could actually demonstrate various sorting algorithms on datasets in the actual memory.
[15:10:23] <N1njaneer> Like ones that you couldn't traditionally do in flash memory due to rewrite problems, or inability rewrite less than a page.
[15:10:33] <bss36504> But we're getting close to actual customer demo quality. Thats not a bad idea, I'd have to step up my controller game though.
[15:10:45] <bss36504> The quad I/O mode goes up to 104MHz
[15:11:36] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Here's a cool video that is pretty cool in showing visual representations of common sorting algorithms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRA0W1kECg
[15:13:18] <bss36504> The sound at the end of a sort makes me think of mario sliding down a flag pole
[15:13:50] <bss36504> pretty sweet video thiough
[15:14:42] <N1njaneer> bss: mario - lol yes it does!
[15:16:21] <bss36504> haha the sounds are cracking me up
[15:19:25] <beaky> if i set the fuse of the attiny to PLL
[15:19:30] <beaky> what will its frequency be
[15:19:46] <rue_house> 1 or 8Mhz
[15:19:56] <OndraSter_> attiny has got only PLL for timers
[15:20:00] <OndraSter_> and just one or two tinies
[15:20:30] <beaky> ah
[15:22:41] <beaky> why does the 64Mhz output of the pll get divided by 4 when used as the system clock
[15:22:52] <OndraSter_> because the core does not work at 64MHz
[15:30:42] <rue_house> it allows yo a high rez times for things like pwm
[15:30:51] <rue_house> that can work at 64Mhz
[15:31:16] <rue_house> besides, pll's need a few cycles to stay stable
[15:33:33] <beaky> i love my tiny
[15:33:44] <bss36504> N1njaneer: So i think I'm going to pitch a simple digital camera idea to my boss for the next application project. I was thinking
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8667+Our memory+Color LCD+xmega would be pretty sweet.
[15:33:58] <bss36504> beaky: tiny what?! dont keep us guessing!
[15:34:07] <bss36504> ahahaha
[15:35:19] <beaky> attiny85
[15:35:36] <bss36504> it was a joke
[15:41:28] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Oooh that could be cool!
[15:42:15] <bss36504> Seems pretty do-able as well. It would be my first foray into using an xmega, but I think the higher ups would love it.
[15:42:24] <N1njaneer> beaky: If you put coins under your pillow at night, I have it on good authority the AVR Fairy will come and put ATTINYs in their place.
[15:42:29] <OndraSter_> xmega is bloody awesome
[15:42:34] <bss36504> it really is
[15:50:21] <beaky> is atxmega better than the attiny?
[15:50:43] <bss36504> beaky, for the 80 billionth time, it depends on application
[15:51:22] <inkjetunito> beaky: is 1000 more than 100?
[15:51:23] <bss36504> If you only need 8 pins, probably a tiny is the way to go. If you want near 32 bit performance with the 8 bit core we all know and love, probably the xmega is a better choice
[15:52:46] <bss36504> Keep in mind, the xmega has a ton of peripheral options like DMAs, crypto cores, complex PWMs, complex I/Os etc.
[15:55:06] <OndraSter_> it is missing only MMU :D
[15:55:17] <OndraSter_> and execute from RAM
[15:55:27] <OndraSter_> ok, the MMU not really
[15:55:35] <OndraSter_> execute from RAM would be nice
[15:55:39] <OndraSter_> and possible on the a1 chips
[15:56:12] <ambro718> yay, JIT on AVR!
[15:56:24] <ambro718> then we could run javascript!
[15:59:50] <rue_house> thats stupid
[15:59:54] <inkjetunito> arduino, ethernet shield, raspberry pi and the rpi communicating with the javascript on arduino over http requests
[16:00:01] <rue_house> make a BF java engine, then it can run on anything
[16:02:33] <N1njaneer> I really, really like Atmel's ARM offerings now. Certainly the right price-point for mid-level stuff. Heck, some of the ARMs cost less than the larger AVRs
[16:03:06] <Tom_itx> do you need an arm on your coffee pot though?
[16:03:26] <N1njaneer> I BURNED my arm on a coffee pot once...
[16:03:35] <Tom_itx> that counts
[16:04:12] <OndraSter_> haha
[16:04:41] <N1njaneer> Beaky should build a TINY close out of transistors.
[16:05:06] <N1njaneer> +clone
[16:05:15] <N1njaneer> And keep it beneath his pillow
[16:05:26] <bss36504> haha
[16:05:45] <OndraSter_> :D
[16:06:05] <N1njaneer> It shall be powered by the warmth of his love.
[16:06:14] <OndraSter_> of tinnies
[16:06:21] <bss36504> and ohms law
[16:06:25] <bss36504> and mosfets
[16:06:25] <OndraSter_> some people love titties, some people love tinnies..
[16:06:27] <bss36504> and bjts
[16:06:44] <bss36504> guys, I love my tiny....
[16:06:48] <bss36504> tiny what you ask?
[16:06:51] <N1njaneer> I imagine Timmy from Southpark, but running around screaming "Eehhbalalahhh TINY!"
[16:06:56] <OndraSter_> :D
[16:06:57] <OndraSter_> :D :D :D
[16:07:06] <OndraSter_> yeah I have one southpark ep ready to be watched (yesterday's)
[16:07:11] <bss36504> hahahahaha
[16:09:22] <N1njaneer> The Minecraft/Cable Company episode recently was brilliant. That was basically the EXACT situation I was dealing with.
[16:09:33] <N1njaneer> As far as cable goes, or moreso Internet.
[16:09:41] <beaky> http://ideone.com/SD7jvy why does my code not work? :(
[16:10:36] <rue_house> you didn't set up CPUFREQ
[16:10:43] <bss36504> you're gonna have to provide more info on that.
[16:10:51] <bss36504> to beaky
[16:10:57] <N1njaneer> Gotta code is in Pascal
[16:11:10] <rue_house> (read_adc() + read_adc() + read_adc() + read_adc()) / 4; <-- that will probably overflow
[16:11:21] <beaky> ah right
[16:12:24] <rue_house> did you test ANY of the parts of all this code before putting it all togethor?
[16:12:45] <beaky> no i just put it all together first
[16:13:11] <rue_house> do you understand why thats a problem?
[16:13:16] <OndraSter_> haha
[16:13:18] <bss36504> probably whilst screaming YOLO at your computer and making love to your attiny.
[16:13:23] <OndraSter_> :D
[16:13:34] <N1njaneer> Beaky, ask not what your ATTINY can do for you, but what you can do for your ATTINY
[16:13:51] <N1njaneer> Give it a nice aquarium, a heat-lamp, and some crickets.
[16:13:53] <beaky> ok i will independently test each function
[16:14:12] <rue_house> how about if I said, you pwm init code dosn't work, your adc init code dosn't work, your oversample code dosn't work, your adc read fn dosn't work, and your system wont wake up from anything going on when its sleeping?
[16:14:20] <rue_house> shall we go thru and fix everything?
[16:14:31] <beaky> yes
[16:14:33] <N1njaneer> It did wonders for the ATMEGA128 I had here. Eventually it grew up in to an ATMEGA2560 :)
[16:14:42] <rue_house> ok, 1) test your pwm code
[16:14:53] <OndraSter_> nice N1njaneer
[16:14:59] <N1njaneer> beaky: Break it down, test parts individually.
[16:15:06] <rue_house> ONLY, so make a main loop, that ramps the pwm value up and down, use an led to confirm it works properly
[16:15:10] <OndraSter_> my 40pin atmega32 grew into 64pin atmega128
[16:15:27] <OndraSter_> and then into xmega256a3u
[16:15:29] <beaky> i thought the 128 only had 48 pins
[16:15:34] <rue_house> tell me when you have that working, show code!
[16:15:40] <N1njaneer> OndraSter_: You connect the SPI ports of two ATMEGAs together, and eventually little ATTINY's are born.
[16:15:41] <beaky> erm, 32 pins*
[16:15:52] <beaky> lol ninjaneer
[16:15:55] <OndraSter_> N1njaneer, why SPI?
[16:16:14] <bss36504_> be back on in a bit, dont let the fun die down
[16:16:20] <ambro718> the read_adc() sum won't overflow, since maximum value from adc is 1023, and int is 16-bit on avr. But that is not so say he shouldn't be casting this to uint16_t or something to make it more obvious.
[16:16:29] <N1njaneer> OndraSter_: I2C also works, UARTs even.
[16:17:09] <N1njaneer> AVRs need a constant supply of love, VCC, and clocks.
[16:18:10] <rue_house> beaky, there yet?
[16:18:16] <rue_house> just make a stripped down version
[16:18:54] <beaky> yes i got pwm to work!
[16:19:22] <rue_house> lets see the code!
[16:19:47] <beaky> http://ideone.com/SD7jvy
[16:20:20] <rue_house> ok, but your not stripping it down right
[16:20:42] <rue_house> ayour oversamples code still wont work
[16:20:47] <beaky> :(
[16:20:47] <OndraSter_> wtf is ment to do this?
[16:20:48] <OndraSter_> enum {
[16:20:48] <OndraSter_> setpoint = 13ll * 10230ll * 11 / 2000ll
[16:20:48] <OndraSter_> };
[16:20:53] <rue_house> it dosn't so what I said beaky
[16:20:57] <rue_house> does it pulse an led?
[16:21:04] <rue_house> ramp the pwm up and down?
[16:21:15] <beaky> all it does it blink a led at 50% duty cycle
[16:21:23] <beaky> at 250kHz
[16:21:24] <rue_house> no
[16:21:30] <rue_house> ramp the brightness up and down
[16:21:34] <rue_house> with the pwm
[16:21:35] <beaky> ok i will try
[16:22:13] <beaky> OndraSter_: that will automagically compute the value between 0-1023 that denotes 13V
[16:22:37] <OndraSter_> will it?
[16:23:35] <rue_house> http://ideone.com/yXguKg
[16:23:43] <rue_house> beaky, ^^ thats the kinda answer were looking for
[16:24:00] <rue_house> tho my answer is crude
[16:24:19] <rue_house> and probably strobes too fast
[16:24:20] <OndraSter_> this is the code you are looking for!
[16:24:54] <rue_house> beaky, you want to test everying on it own, in the simplest manner, with nothing else going on
[16:25:19] <rue_house> every peice of code should be so simple it cannot fail
[16:25:28] <rue_house> then when it does, its easy to diagnose
[16:25:45] <beaky> right
[16:25:48] <rue_house> and you add to it slowly, one little unknown peice at a time
[16:25:59] <rue_house> then if something fails, you know its what you just added
[16:26:06] <beaky> i will test it at lower frequency
[16:26:10] <beaky> so i can see everything from led
[16:26:19] <beaky> 250kHz is crazy fast
[16:26:20] <rue_house> no
[16:26:25] <rue_house> just make the code delay longer
[16:26:29] <beaky> ah right
[16:28:49] <beaky> ok i got it working! but it oscillates too much around my desired 13V output
[16:29:21] <rue_house> uh, dont ahve this running a power supply...
[16:29:34] <rue_house> run the led right off the mcu pin with a resistor
[16:30:05] <rue_house> beaky, remember, the trick to doing it once is to not put it all together and turn it on
[16:30:24] <rue_house> build it in little steps that are either foolproof or proven to work
[16:30:31] <rue_house> then you just do it once
[16:31:12] <beaky> right i still have no idea whether my adc is giving be bad readings or whether my pwm update step is wrong (I bet its the pwm though... maybe if i try PID)
[16:31:30] <rue_house> were gonna test that
[16:31:34] <beaky> i will try adc :D
[16:31:44] <rue_house> did you put the led on the pwm to confirm that IT works?
[16:31:45] <rue_house> wait
[16:31:48] <rue_house> confirm the pwm works
[16:31:56] <rue_house> your trying to jump the gun
[16:32:10] <beaky> yeah it blinks with varying brightness
[16:32:15] <beaky> with that ramp up code
[16:32:28] <rue_house> so it gets brioghter and them goes out?
[16:32:38] <rue_house> or it is on and gets dimmer?
[16:32:42] <beaky> yes then it goes back out and brigther and
[16:32:42] <rue_house> thats REALLY important
[16:33:30] <rue_house> wait, tell me if it goes out, and gets brighter, or if it goes on, and gets dimmer
[16:33:39] <rue_house> your answer dson't say
[16:34:08] <rue_house> did you already etch a board and solder in the avr?
[16:34:48] <rue_house> if you did, it says one thing, you must be at a university
[16:35:07] <beaky> i am using rbadboard
[16:35:17] <beaky> breadboard*
[16:35:29] <rue_house> ah, good, I'v not heard of a rbadboard
[16:35:34] <rue_house> :)
[16:35:40] <beaky> :D
[16:35:46] <rue_house> ok, tell me, on and gets dimmer or off and gets brighter
[16:36:10] <beaky> on and dimer
[16:36:29] <rue_house> ok, and your led goes between the pwm pin and vcc or gnd?
[16:36:50] <beaky> GND
[16:36:58] <beaky> should it be in vcc?
[16:37:23] <rue_house> ok, so that means 0 on the OCR is at 0% duty
[16:37:25] <OndraSter_> is there any resistor?
[16:37:31] <rue_house> lets hope o
[16:37:32] <rue_house> so
[16:37:59] <rue_house> beaky, remmeber that OCR = 0 -> 0V
[16:38:10] <rue_house> er wait
[16:38:16] <rue_house> I think I just got that backwards
[16:38:23] <rue_house> someone cross check me, I'm ill
[16:38:33] <OndraSter_> I have nearly midnight :D
[16:38:36] <rue_house> overflows to 0
[16:38:45] <rue_house> beaky, I got it backwards
[16:39:01] <rue_house> OCR = 0 -> 5V 100% duty
[16:39:15] <rue_house> confirm you know what I'm talking about
[16:39:46] <beaky> yes
[16:40:07] <rue_house> beaky, tell me how I know that 0 is 5V 100% duty
[16:40:08] <beaky> when ocr1a == ocr1c PB1 gets reset
[16:40:23] <rue_house> nono, from the led behaviour
[16:40:32] <beaky> the led is bright?
[16:41:16] <rue_house> the led brightness goes |\|\|\ the led is tied to gnd, the OCR is incremented
[16:41:26] <rue_house> so explain it thru to me
[16:41:42] <rue_house> this is really important, because if its wrong for the circuit your operating, YOU need to know it
[16:41:55] <rue_house> its a 1 bit difference in the init code
[16:42:23] <beaky> i guess my high switch should be open at the beginning
[16:43:51] <beaky> or maybe it doesn't matter
[16:51:14] <rue_house> go on and explain whats happening to me
[16:51:28] <rue_house> if I'm gonna tutor ya here you have to pay with keystrokes
[16:52:01] <rue_house> then is a fun step, we make the adc control the pwm direct
[16:52:25] <megal0maniac_afk> I was trying to do the same damn thing
[16:52:54] <rue_house> beaky, what country you in/
[16:53:19] <beaky> i am in untied arab emairetas
[16:53:31] <rue_house> ah, its probably late over there
[16:53:44] <beaky> how do i make adc control pwm?
[16:54:05] <rue_house> oh and your english is probably challenging too eh?
[16:54:08] <rue_house> ok ok,
[16:54:37] <rue_house> show me the code you have right now, and your origional code
[16:54:55] <rue_house> lets gradually merge this
[16:55:14] <beaky> http://ideone.com/SD7jvy i lost my original code :/
[16:55:37] <rue_house> all your junk is in there
[16:55:54] <rue_house> show me the code you just used to test the pwm
[16:56:25] <beaky> i lost that too :(
[16:56:30] <rue_house> you want I use simple english
[16:56:33] <beaky> i should use vcs
[16:56:40] <rue_house> you just compile it!
[16:56:49] <rue_house> make miltiple files!
[16:57:03] <beaky> ok i will start a git repo
[16:57:07] <rue_house> no
[16:57:11] <rue_house> just make muleiple files
[16:57:13] <rue_house> multiple
[16:59:06] <rue_house> http://ideone.com/yXguKg
[16:59:06] <rue_house> there is the code I had given you, remake your changes and repost
[16:59:06] <rue_house> keep all working copies of code, not in a vcs
[16:59:06] <rue_house> beaky, do you want me to use simple english?
[16:59:10] <beaky> nah im fine with standard english :D
[16:59:14] <rue_house> ok
[17:01:44] <beaky> http://ideone.com/JnvDHP
[17:02:38] <rue_house> your still doing too many things at once, but ok
[17:02:59] <rue_house> remove sleep mode, use empty loop in main for now
[17:03:14] <rue_house> sleep mode makes some things not work
[17:03:24] <beaky> what kinds of things?
[17:03:32] <rue_house> we will find out later
[17:03:39] <rue_house> for now, remove sleep mode
[17:03:54] <beaky> right
[17:04:12] <beaky> now the rampup is driven by interupt
[17:04:42] <rue_house> ok, add your ADC init code to this last code, in the main loop read the adc and apply the value to the OCR
[17:04:51] <rue_house> do you have a potentiometer you can put n the adc input?
[17:05:17] <beaky> yes
[17:05:38] <rue_house> ok do that, just 0-5V, are you using internal 5V ref for adc?
[17:05:48] <beaky> 1.1v
[17:05:55] <rue_house> hmm, ok
[17:06:06] <rue_house> do you know how to make 1.4V ref with an led?
[17:06:35] <rue_house> do you have a supply you can use for 1.1V?
[17:06:47] <rue_house> have a dead AA battery? :)
[17:06:48] <beaky> no
[17:07:04] <beaky> ok i will use 5v vref
[17:07:11] <rue_house> ok
[17:07:13] <BusError> megal0maniac_afk, bss36504 ; did some getho reflowing earlier:
https://plus.google.com/111387094029238541867/posts/VTEKpsg4F8C
[17:07:18] <rue_house> whe you have code ready, post
[17:09:28] <beaky> http://ideone.com/nIitNi
[17:10:09] <rue_house> (1 << ADIF) <-- if your not using the adc finished interrupt, no bother turn it on
[17:10:44] <rue_house> nevermind, I'm thinking of inerrupt mask enable..
[17:11:11] <rue_house> ok do not add 4 samples and do not divide by 4, your code will still overflow
[17:11:18] <rue_house> simpel for now
[17:11:45] <rue_house> oh you just divided by 4
[17:11:53] <rue_house> sorry, cant think straight, I'm ill today
[17:11:54] <bss36504> BusError: Neato, thats basically what I do with my hot air station
[17:12:35] <beaky> cool i can vary the brightness by turning the knob
[17:12:50] <rue_house> excellent
[17:13:04] <rue_house> it works normally, no brighter and dimmer bits in the middle?
[17:13:07] <beaky> my active feedback circuit in the synchronous smps will vary the output voltage by the error
[17:13:09] <rue_house> may I see working code?
[17:13:26] <beaky> http://ideone.com/nIitNi
[17:13:45] <rue_house> that cant be working code, you have /4 in there
[17:13:51] <rue_house> remove /4
[17:14:12] <rue_house> oh its just doing... oh
[17:14:12] <bss36504> BusError: How does the Attiny85 do the USB?
[17:14:13] <rue_house> oh
[17:14:18] <rue_house> beaky, I'm sorry
[17:14:20] <rue_house> I see
[17:14:32] <rue_house> adc is 10 bit, your using only 8 bit own
[17:14:34] <rue_house> pwm
[17:14:40] <beaky> right
[17:14:43] <rue_house> beaky, ok, I understand now
[17:14:48] <rue_house> ok
[17:15:23] <rue_house> beaky, ok, to average 4 samples you must make a long variable and add them to that, int is 16 bits, long is 32
[17:15:36] <rue_house> .. 10 bit
[17:15:41] <rue_house> wait a sec!
[17:15:42] <beaky> wont int be wide enough to fit 4 10-bit values
[17:16:03] <rue_house> your right, 1024*4 will still fit in 16 bits!
[17:16:04] <rue_house> ok
[17:16:17] <rue_house> ok, next add averaging!
[17:16:39] <rue_house> (your oversample code)
[17:17:21] <BusError> bss36504, v-usb
[17:17:22] <beaky> http://ideone.com/oZuSAk
[17:17:53] <rue_house> nope
[17:17:56] <BusError> bss36504, uses the built in PLL to get to 16.5mhz too, pretty neat
[17:18:05] <rue_house> beaky, /4 again
[17:18:13] <beaky> oops
[17:18:16] <rue_house> :)
[17:18:27] <beaky> http://ideone.com/IdfZ4d
[17:18:49] <megal0maniac_afk> BusError: Not bad :) Tried to do that recently, but I think the heatgun nozzle is too wide
[17:19:10] <rue_house> heh, in my mind /4/4 was /8 hah!
[17:19:24] <bss36504> BusError: Wow, that's pretty neat, and V-USB is perfect for the application.
[17:19:46] <rue_house> beaky, still works ok?
[17:20:24] <beaky> yes although i dont know how the oversampling and averaging helps in blinking a led :D
[17:20:26] <BusError> bss36504, yeah, very few messages etc. it's perfect. the firmware also 'emulates' an i2c eeprom (with the attiny own eeprom) and a lm75 witht he attiny own temp sensor!
[17:20:45] <rue_house> beaky, your dimming the led up and down now, yes?
[17:21:02] <beaky> yes when i turn my knob towards GND the led goes timmer
[17:21:29] <beaky> and going towards VCC makes it briger
[17:21:38] <rue_house> you have proved almost all your code
[17:21:58] * Tom_itx thinks rue_house was playing hookey today
[17:22:05] <rue_house> you must hav switched the polarity of the pwm
[17:22:11] <rue_house> Tom_itx, I'm ill
[17:22:24] <rue_house> proven by ^ silly mistakes while tutoring
[17:22:27] <beaky> ok now to go from pwming a led with adc control to implementing a smps!
[17:22:47] <rue_house> I hope it a buck converter
[17:22:57] <beaky> it is
[17:23:18] <rue_house> not running sensitive electronics
[17:23:45] <rue_house> anyhow, finish adding your changes, but test with knob and led
[17:23:54] <rue_house> you should be able to work in by hand
[17:24:02] <beaky> by hand?
[17:24:29] <rue_house> led and knob, use the led to know if the knob should go up or down
[17:24:45] <beaky> yes i turn my pot towards vcc to make it birghter
[17:24:55] <beaky> and towards gnd to swithc it dimmer
[17:24:56] <rue_house> regulation code usuauly works different than yours, but yours should be ok
[17:25:10] <beaky> mine oscilates too much
[17:25:22] <beaky> it will explode anything vonected to vout :D
[17:25:26] <rue_house> ok
[17:25:46] <rue_house> you need some standard loop control stuff then
[17:25:58] <beaky> ok i will go with P
[17:26:01] <rue_house> I cant help make it PID, but I can help you do P
[17:26:37] <rue_house> oh,your hand dimming version, you should add sleep to it and make sure it still works
[17:26:57] <rue_house> because you can still test that easily
[17:27:02] <beaky> right
[17:27:15] <beaky> hmm what will wake the avr up though
[17:28:32] <rue_house> I cant remember if the adc works in sleep mode, I dont think it does
[17:28:44] <beaky> hello
[17:29:07] <beaky> what kind of sleepmode should i put the avr in
[17:29:15] <beaky> noise canceling?
[17:29:37] <rue_house> your choice, try something and see if the simple code still works
[17:30:47] <Tom_itx> deep sleep
[17:31:01] <N1njaneer> With hypnosis
[17:31:36] <beaky> maybe pin change?
[17:31:40] <rue_house> anyone recall if you need to be awake to do adc conversion? I think so, cause the adc pulls a bunch of power
[17:31:50] <Tom_itx> i'm pretty sure you do
[17:32:05] <Tom_itx> i know i don't do much during sleep
[17:32:37] <Tom_itx> and the first few conversions aren't accurate
[17:33:12] <beaky> yeah noise cancleing and power down will close my led
[17:33:16] <beaky> i will go with idle mode
[17:33:49] <beaky> and wake up from an ADC
[17:34:08] <Tom_itx> does that result in a hangover?
[17:34:35] <beaky> yes life as a cpu is hard
[17:35:09] <beaky> always getting awakened by random interrupts and irritated by noise source
[17:38:21] <rue_house> beaky, you learned how to build code up then yes?
[17:39:29] <beaky> yes
[17:39:48] <beaky> incrementally
[17:41:17] <rue_house> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_III/servo32/adc_pwm_PI_uart4/
[17:41:24] <rue_house> in main.c is PI code
[17:41:38] <rue_house> for reference
[17:41:47] <Fornaxian> http://www.poisonedminds.com/comics/ssdd20031229.png
[17:45:21] <rue_house> Tom_itx,
[17:45:28] <rue_house> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/robots/buddy_III/servo32/adc_pwm_PI_uart4/main.c
[17:45:44] <rue_house> I had integrator runaway problems, had to add a threshold
[17:46:34] <beaky> i guess P is good enough for a regualtor
[17:46:54] <beaky> all i will do is compute error and then add it to my ocr1a
[17:47:22] <rue_house> Ihave two problems with PID, adjuting the values, and rewroking code for ID values of less or more than 1
[17:48:02] <rue_house> I dont have a digital scope, so on mechanical systems its hard to impossable to work out where the tuning is at
[17:50:23] <rue_house> my feedback loop is timed by the adc conversions, which ensures calculations only happen once per sample, but is also probably not a stable time base
[19:58:24] <ambro718> is it possible to put a string literal in program memory?
[19:58:42] <ambro718> I need the program-memory version of puts("String Literal");
[20:01:32] <Tom_itx> yes
[20:01:57] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/abcminiuser/articles/progmem_basics_index.php
[20:05:22] <ambro718> thanks, it works. Finally I can enable my assertions ;)
[20:05:48] <freezway> So I'
[20:06:16] <Tom_itx> just put a quarter in the cup by the door on your way out
[20:06:42] <w|zzy> Tom_itx: do you accept bitcoins?
[20:06:49] <Tom_itx> NO!
[20:06:57] <freezway> ve started transistioning from arduino to stright up avr's and been using my arduino to program and realized its actually pretty shitty as an ISP and am looking to buy a decent one
[20:07:00] <freezway> any sugguestions?
[20:07:14] <Tom_itx> yep
[20:07:15] <Tom_itx> mine!
[20:07:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[20:09:04] <freezway> Tom_itx, does it do all the chips the offical avrisp does?
[20:10:14] <ambro718> Tom_itx: it doesn't have the limitation of not being able to program >=128k chips, right?
[20:10:51] <Tom_itx> absolutely
[20:10:56] <w|zzy> I second Tom_itx's suggestion.
[20:10:57] <Tom_itx> it will do 128k
[20:11:05] <w|zzy> It's an awesome little device.
[20:11:08] <ambro718> cool
[20:11:17] <Tom_itx> and the last update made xmegas program ALOT faster
[20:11:41] <w|zzy> I've recommended it to a few people and they have been happy..
[20:11:44] <freezway> Tom_itx, so whats the catch? what does the "offical" atmel one do better than yours
[20:11:46] <Tom_itx> so if you have one you should run that update
[20:11:53] <Tom_itx> nothing
[20:12:00] <Tom_itx> mine is better because it's mine :D
[20:12:06] <Tom_itx> it's open source software
[20:12:17] <Tom_itx> it runs avrdude, studio, winders, linux, osx
[20:12:21] <Tom_itx> what more do you want?
[20:12:33] <Tom_itx> all the 8bit avrs that i'm aware of
[20:12:50] <Tom_itx> even the tiny 6 pin attiny 4,5,9 and 10
[20:13:08] <freezway> im just gathering all the info I can before i spend money
[20:13:13] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure if the regular one does TPI yet
[20:13:25] <Tom_itx> where are you located?
[20:13:46] <Tom_itx> oh and i'm on irc. atmel isn't :D
[20:13:51] <Tom_itx> well sorta
[20:15:01] <w|zzy> freezway: if Tom's can't do it, it is not worth doing. also a very competitive price.
[20:15:50] <Tom_itx> you can get bit banged isp programmers but that's all they'll do
[20:15:53] <Tom_itx> and they do it slower
[20:16:04] <freezway> Tom_itx, currently Rochester
[20:16:09] <freezway> check my ip...
[20:16:16] <Tom_itx> meh
[20:16:26] <freezway> why?
[20:16:32] <Tom_itx> just as long as you're not in dubai or shanghai
[20:16:52] <Tom_itx> actually shanghai may be ok
[20:19:18] <freezway> oh weird, im using ipv6
[20:34:51] <freezway> Tom_itx, does it come with the cable?
[20:37:23] <freezway> nvm
[20:40:36] <Tom_itx> comes with what you see
[20:40:40] <Tom_itx> the isp cable
[21:27:18] <rue_bed> hmm 20mA at 2V is 100 ohms
[21:31:29] <wip> if i disable reset in the fuse and install a bootloader, will i be able to reprogram my firmware?
[21:34:41] <Tom_itx> not without reenabling reset
[21:34:58] <Tom_itx> how does the bootloader load code? or does it...
[22:20:08] <wip> Tom_itx, thanks for taking the time! make sense now.
[22:21:44] <Tom_itx> np
[23:46:13] <twnqx> hackvana: any recommendation for electronics shopping in louhu district?
[23:46:26] <twnqx> luohu* apparently
[23:47:03] <hackvana> twnqx: What kind of stuff?
[23:47:09] <hackvana> Parts, or products?
[23:47:30] <twnqx> products i guess, but parts would be interesting too
[23:48:41] <hackvana> This is the area for products:
http://goo.gl/maps/WkUl2
[23:48:53] <hackvana> (Note, strictly speaking it's not in Luohu, but in Futian)
[23:49:34] <hackvana> And this for parts:
http://goo.gl/maps/nC5i8
[23:49:52] <twnqx> :) i wonder if this ever loads here
[23:50:30] <hackvana> Hmm?
[23:51:00] <twnqx> slow umts
[23:54:00] <blargo_> hey is this channle about programming with avrdude
[23:55:36] <twnqx> maybe
[23:56:26] <blargo_> cool. would it be possible to use a attiny85 to read a GPS signal and send it via a cell phone
[23:56:31] <blargo_> or cell modem
[23:59:54] <Casper> blargo_: I'ld be worried about the ram
