#avr | Logs for 2013-11-01

Back
[02:14:42] <juri_> ok, i'm starting to hate SPI.
[02:15:23] <N2TOH> why?
[02:15:34] <juri_> i'm vetting some very strange behavior when using the built in SPI hardware.
[02:16:14] <N2TOH> did you read the errata addendum for your specific part?
[02:16:21] <juri_> as in, one read its all 1s, the next read all 0s.
[02:16:43] <N2TOH> sounds like a wiring issue
[02:16:49] <juri_> i was talking to my 31855 i think.. but it seemed like the bitrate was askew.
[02:17:24] <N2TOH> do you know if your timing is within spec for all parts? IE not too fast, or too slow
[02:17:26] <juri_> i'm running at cpuclck/128...
[02:17:50] <N2TOH> what uCU
[02:18:02] <juri_> atmega 8535.
[02:18:09] <N2TOH> hang on
[02:18:36] <N2TOH> what revision?
[02:18:47] <juri_> the max31855 is a 3.3v part, so i'm using a 74lvs14 to convert the outputs from the microcontroller..
[02:19:29] <juri_> -16pu, clocked at 8Mhz.
[02:20:21] <N2TOH> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc1657.pdf
[02:21:04] <juri_> wrong part. thats the 90, not the mega.
[02:24:05] <N2TOH> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc2520.pdf
[02:27:26] <N2TOH> 11 0x00A SPI, STC Serial Transfer Complete
[02:27:38] <N2TOH> page 46 under reset vectors
[02:28:37] <N2TOH> other then that I would say check your wiring again for an intermittent connection.
[02:29:08] <juri_> yea, i'm getting interrupts.
[02:29:15] <juri_> its just that the data is.. interesting.
[02:30:56] <N2TOH> do you have a logic analyzer to look at the data bus?
[02:31:07] <juri_> with just my programmer hooked to the port, i'm seeing the input change back and forth between 95% all zeroes, and 95% all ones.
[02:31:20] <N2TOH> and other silly things like bypass caps on all the VCC supply pins?
[02:32:20] <N2TOH> what are you using for a power supply?
[02:34:04] <juri_> USB.
[02:35:17] <N2TOH> from what source your PC, or a cheap charger brick? or other noise generator
[02:36:33] <juri_> the PC i'm communicating to it with.
[02:37:27] <N2TOH> here is a suggestion that has little grounds other then it seems to help in many situations.
[02:37:44] <N2TOH> if your not already doing so consider using a USB hub
[02:38:47] <N2TOH> a powered one. I've seen this resolve many situations for a number of reasons including inadequate power supplies to sloppy USB framing to other signal errors
[02:40:00] <N2TOH> I know is sounds dumb, but I have lost count of the number of times a powered HUB has just "FIXED" the problem.
[02:41:46] <juri_> mmh. don't have one. :/
[02:42:38] <juri_> i was lucky to get the level shifter. found it running the LEDs in an old accesspoint.
[02:43:11] <N2TOH> that's OK just something to keep in mind when the opportunity to get one at low cost presents itself.
[02:46:01] <N2TOH> why not just run the ATmega at 3.3 Volts
[02:49:33] <juri_> i still need 5V for TWI.
[02:53:06] <N2TOH> ah
[02:53:28] <N2TOH> hey look over there, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymKU8EhUV30
[03:14:35] <juri_> ok, i've verified the SS pin is set correctly when not communicating, the pins go to the right places, and i've put into my host software the ability to change the sample edge (rising or falling), and clock polarity.
[03:14:55] <juri_> playing with the sample edge and clock polarity do jack. i'm calling this a dead part.
[03:54:51] <Tom_itx> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Digital_ICs/Microprocessors_Microcontrollers_DSPs/Introducing_Intel_39_s_Galileo_Development_Board.aspx
[04:35:29] <juri_> smeggenfeh.
[06:13:17] <juri_> ok, plugging 3.3V directly into my miso reads gobeldygook, not all 1s.
[08:42:27] <amee2k> possibly mildly unrelated but does anyone know a store called "funkkiste.de" ?
[08:43:07] <N2TOH> no
[08:43:19] <N2TOH> long time amee2k
[08:43:30] <amee2k> lol
[08:43:33] <amee2k> you could say that :3
[08:43:44] <specing> am333333332k
[08:44:18] <amee2k> i'm not terribly good at "googling" stores, and they want either pre-paid order or 5EUR handling fee for PP payment
[08:44:28] <amee2k> that doesn#t look entirely legit IMO
[08:47:04] <twnqx> why not
[08:47:17] <twnqx> paypal costs them money
[08:47:48] <amee2k> same country + insisting on prepaid
[08:48:10] <twnqx> they don't; they offer you paypal if you take the extra cost
[08:50:55] <amee2k> if the order was from abroad i'd get that because then it'd be nasty to sue someone
[08:51:19] <amee2k> but i don't find that terribly legit within the same country
[08:51:42] <N2TOH> amee2k, even some companies here is the US do prepaid orders or checks still!
[08:52:19] <twnqx> i don't know any shop in .de who will ship to private buyers without prepaying on first order
[08:52:43] <N2TOH> it's typically for smaller mail order shops to not accept bank cards or wire transfers
[08:53:38] <amee2k> if they don't do normal bill they can use "Lastschrift" (translation?) to bill it to my account
[08:56:09] <N2TOH> some people just don't want to be botherd with such things, much like your not interested in prepaying
[08:56:47] <amee2k> i don't have a problem with prepaying, but i'd prefer to know that someone else ordered and actually got his stuff :>
[08:57:01] <carabia> use google googloids
[08:57:25] <amee2k> i just tried to google them but kinda failed at it
[08:58:24] <N2TOH> what is it your looking to purchase?
[08:58:54] <amee2k> bunch of PP stuff
[08:58:59] <amee2k> worth ~150EUR
[08:59:48] <N2TOH> have you looked into US suppliers?
[09:00:19] <amee2k> no, because cross-pond shipping is wallet rape
[09:01:41] <N2TOH> USPS
[09:02:18] <N2TOH> https://www.connex-electronics.com/
[09:02:25] <carabia> nah. you can make it up in the prices... Just gotta buy a good bunch :)
[09:02:58] <N2TOH> at least take a look at their page, I have ordered from them several time already. always a joy to work with
[09:03:52] <amee2k> carabia: then i get to pay import tax instead :>
[09:04:19] <carabia> order an even bigger bunch
[09:04:39] <carabia> start selling avrs out of the back of a van
[09:04:44] <N2TOH> from what I understand the United States Postal Service has a better deal then USP and the other comercial carries when it comes to import duties
[09:05:27] <N2TOH> amee2k, did they give you any trouble with the parts I sent?
[09:05:49] <amee2k> no, but that was like 1.5EUR and not 150 :>
[09:06:48] <N2TOH> good thing I didn't send the eval board :)
[09:15:40] <N2TOH> how does that directional antenna that looks like a laundry drying rack work?
[09:25:42] <carabia> mean gain?
[09:28:48] <megal0maniac_afk> Sheesh. I thought that writing my own delay function would be more efficient :/
[09:29:34] <megal0maniac> asm volatile("nop"); in a for loop. Used 350bytes for a blinky program. Using delay.h, it took 68bytes
[09:32:48] <RikusW> I could do it in 32 bytes ;)
[09:32:54] <RikusW> erm 34
[09:33:03] <megal0maniac> In C, sure :P
[09:33:14] <RikusW> mmm maybe 38...
[09:33:16] <megal0maniac> *asm
[09:33:32] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Including a delay?
[09:33:50] <RikusW> yes
[09:34:01] <RikusW> my delay function uses 10 instructions
[09:34:04] <RikusW> 20 bytes
[09:34:17] <RikusW> look at the bottom of the blaster code
[09:34:45] <RikusW> SPH/L needs to be set before making a call...
[09:35:01] <RikusW> and 7 instructions for the loop
[09:37:26] <megal0maniac> Quick question, why does it write 0xFF to a chunk of the flash after the program?
[09:38:01] <megal0maniac> From 0x0042 to 0x03F5
[09:38:07] <megal0maniac> And 0x00 after that
[09:39:31] <RikusW> for your c app ?
[09:39:39] <N2TOH> just a WAG, but it could just be a marker indicating that is the end of the program
[09:39:41] <megal0maniac> Yip
[09:39:47] <RikusW> FF is blank flash
[09:39:58] <RikusW> how many 0x00 ?
[09:39:59] <megal0maniac> N2TOH: That what I thought too, but wanted to check
[09:40:24] <N2TOH> and yes FF is fresh unwritten flash
[09:41:29] <megal0maniac> Oh. 0x03F5 is the end of flash
[09:41:45] <megal0maniac> Sorry, dumb oversight XD I'm not used to flash this small
[09:42:02] <RikusW> t10 ?
[09:42:08] <jadew> `0p[]
[09:42:08] <jadew> -+
[09:42:24] <megal0maniac> Yeah
[09:42:29] <jadew> keyboard fell, sorry
[09:42:41] <megal0maniac> 0x03FF rather
[09:43:23] <RikusW> 3FF sounds better
[09:43:24] <jadew> altho, I'm glad you agree with my statement megal0maniac
[09:44:14] <megal0maniac> jadew: You haven't given me reason to doubt anything you say, yet :)
[11:41:53] <OndraSter> 'sup guys
[11:42:01] <OndraSter> and girls
[11:42:57] <OndraSter> so, if you were to make an ISIC card (should be 13.56MHz RFID) card reader, are there any projects you are aware that do that?
[11:43:04] <OndraSter> 125kHz are simple
[11:43:09] <OndraSter> (both to interface and decode)
[11:44:33] <OndraSter> and also - if you were to send data from <some place> to the internet (I basically need just HEAD or GET http request + read two bytes long reply - or just even run it on a dedicated port or something) - wiznet w5100/5500/similar or enc28j60? :)
[11:44:37] <OndraSter> and some tcpip stack
[11:47:56] <malinus> oh wow, you guys ready for a laugh: http://atnel.pl/
[11:48:00] <twnqx> the wiznet have the tcp/ip on the chip, iirc
[11:48:17] <twnqx> while the enc haven't
[11:49:36] <malinus> anyone tried the new awr attjny24 from atnel?
[11:50:12] <OndraSter> twnqx, that's why I am asking
[11:50:38] <twnqx> i don't believe in 8bit µC + ethernet, so i have no firsthand experience :P
[11:50:46] <OndraSter> because with keeping the tcpip in the wiznet I would save lotts more available RAM + flash etc
[11:50:50] <OndraSter> and could keep them smaller
[11:50:51] <OndraSter> and cheaper
[11:53:06] <N2TOH> how good or bad is the AVR touch sensor support?
[11:56:39] <malinus> twnqx, what about 8bit uC + DSL?
[12:16:24] <OndraSter> why twnqx ?
[12:16:51] <OndraSter> all I need is to send a http request to some place with data I read off something - and then get result of two bytes and based on those flip some GPIOs
[12:16:56] <OndraSter> why would I need ARM for that
[12:17:05] <OndraSter> wiznet should be just fine
[12:17:14] <OndraSter> + some atxmega32d* or 64d*
[12:19:08] <OndraSter> (I might change it so the data are cached locally and just once in a while synced)
[12:19:12] <OndraSter> in case of emergency.
[12:24:28] <twnqx> it's a general right-or-not-at-all attitude
[12:24:57] <OndraSter> twnqx, ?
[12:25:10] <OndraSter> what's not right about it?
[12:25:38] <carabia> malinus: lol
[12:25:49] <OndraSter> DSL done in software!
[12:43:04] <twnqx> you cannot implement a full tcp/ip stack in a system that doesn't have enough memory to store a full sized legitimate packet.
[12:43:34] <megal0maniac_afk> JUMBO FRAAAAAAAME
[12:44:21] <OndraSter> well w5100
[12:44:34] <OndraSter> or w5500
[12:44:38] <OndraSter> it has its own embedded memory
[12:44:49] <megal0maniac_afk> I recommend wiznet over enc
[12:45:00] <OndraSter> well the wiznet has builtin TCP so yeah
[12:45:07] <megal0maniac_afk> That too
[12:45:07] <OndraSter> presumably also DHCP, will have to check that)
[12:45:27] <carabia> how come 8 bits wouldn't have nuf memory to store a packet?
[12:45:36] <OndraSter> jumbo frames
[12:45:44] <carabia> how large
[12:45:50] <OndraSter> huh, lots
[12:45:55] <carabia> how lots
[12:46:04] <specing> you don't even need jumbo frames to go over 8 bits
[12:46:17] <specing> regular ethernet frames are 1500 bytes
[12:46:18] <megal0maniac_afk> specing: I was being ridiculous :)
[12:46:19] <OndraSter> upto 9000B
[12:46:24] <OndraSter> (jumbo)
[12:46:43] <carabia> go 128 use progmem
[12:46:50] <OndraSter> wat
[12:46:52] <carabia> ;D
[12:46:52] <OndraSter> progmem for what
[12:46:53] <specing> packets can go up to 65535 because the size field is 2 byte
[12:47:03] <OndraSter> and why would I go for 128 when I can go for xmega
[12:47:15] <carabia> go xmega!
[12:47:19] <OndraSter> aye.
[12:47:22] <specing> GO ARM!
[12:47:25] <carabia> so whatcha bitchin
[12:47:27] <OndraSter> I could go for xmega with external 16MB S(D)RAM
[12:47:29] <OndraSter> :D
[12:47:32] <OndraSter> I am not
[12:47:41] <megal0maniac_afk> specing: SAM D20?
[12:47:43] <carabia> nuf with armchair, start doing it
[12:47:43] <OndraSter> specing, this is #avr, not ARM
[12:47:56] <OndraSter> SAMD20 is a nice one as well, but my dragon won't work with it :P
[12:47:56] <specing> oh oops
[12:48:04] <specing> megal0maniac_afk: stellaris
[12:48:19] <specing> $5 board with a built-in OpenOCD-supported hardware debugger ;)
[12:48:26] <megal0maniac_afk> I have 3
[12:48:29] <megal0maniac_afk> Well
[12:48:43] <megal0maniac_afk> Stellaris + MSP430 + Piccolo
[12:48:53] <OndraSter> but how much does one stellaris cost outside of the board?
[12:48:59] <specing> I have 3, too; 2* stellaris + 1* MSP430
[12:49:08] <OndraSter> same here :D
[12:49:08] <megal0maniac_afk> You can't get stellaris out of board XD
[12:49:13] <specing> OndraSter: its unobtainable, but meh
[12:49:16] <OndraSter> LOL
[12:49:20] <OndraSter> then why are you suggesting that
[12:49:22] <megal0maniac_afk> Tiva C
[12:49:29] <megal0maniac_afk> Same thing, except you can buy it
[12:49:32] <specing> because I'm too lazy to make my own PCBs
[12:49:40] <OndraSter> this is not for a home use
[12:49:43] <megal0maniac_afk> specing: #hackvana
[12:49:45] <specing> I just take a $5 stellaris board and shove it in
[12:50:22] <OndraSter> too huge
[12:50:23] <megal0maniac_afk> specing: I don't like the toolchain
[12:50:26] <carabia> #hackvana?
[12:50:38] <OndraSter> aussie making PCBs in china
[12:50:43] <megal0maniac_afk> carabia: Yes. Someone else will make your PCB :)
[12:50:43] <OndraSter> @ hackvana
[12:50:50] <OndraSter> well you still have to design them :D
[12:50:55] <carabia> orly
[12:51:06] <twnqx> carabia: don't mix up ethernet frames with IP packets or TCP packets.
[12:51:16] <twnqx> a single TCP packet is allowed to have 64kB.
[12:51:24] <carabia> yeah
[12:52:55] <carabia> what's the pricing with this hackvana guy
[12:53:31] <OndraSter> http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq
[12:53:33] <OndraSter> read this
[12:53:51] <carabia> was just reading actually, 10x10 USD32, am i reading this right, for 5
[12:54:01] <carabia> or is it the bundle price for each for a minimum qty of 5
[12:54:08] <OndraSter> or 37 for 10pcs
[12:54:10] <OndraSter> it is alltogether
[12:54:12] <OndraSter> you get 10 boards for $37
[12:54:17] <carabia> cool. Kinda cheap
[12:54:18] <OndraSter> or 5 boarsd for $32
[12:54:37] <OndraSter> well if I look at CZE pricing of $50/1pcs for 10*10cm.. yeah :D
[12:54:48] <carabia> Does this guy do bigger than 10x10?
[12:54:48] <OndraSter> (and then second and up for $30)
[12:54:51] <OndraSter> sure
[12:54:52] <specing> megal0maniac_afk: ... but you like AVR GCC? LOL OLOLO LOLOL
[12:54:55] <carabia> Cool
[12:55:07] <OndraSter> specing, gcc, still gcc. The thing are the provided headers/libraries.
[12:55:22] <N2TOH> is that 10x10 inches or millimeters?
[12:55:26] <OndraSter> mm lol
[12:55:28] <OndraSter> err
[12:55:28] <OndraSter> cm
[12:55:31] <carabia> N2TOH: CM
[12:55:41] <N2TOH> oh that's still not too shabby
[12:55:49] <carabia> 10mm * 10mm 32 usd / 5pcs
[12:55:51] <carabia> LOL
[12:55:53] <OndraSter> so megal0maniac_afk have you got your SAMD20 yet?
[12:56:06] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter: No, still backorder and no eta
[12:56:09] <carabia> I wonder what all sorts of stuff can you fit on 10x10 mm
[12:56:10] <OndraSter> hehe
[12:56:12] <OndraSter> so xmega it is.
[12:56:14] <megal0maniac_afk> Got the tinys though
[12:56:19] <OndraSter> carabia, quite a lot
[12:56:31] <carabia> OndraSter: yes sure you can
[12:56:37] <carabia> a lot of resistors and caps and whatnot
[12:56:39] <megal0maniac_afk> Would also like an xmega e to play with but I'll prolly buy it
[12:56:39] <carabia> how useful
[12:56:46] <OndraSter> hehe megal0maniac_afk
[12:56:59] <OndraSter> I have no idea how you interface to the 13.56MHz RFID cards like ISIC
[12:57:01] <carabia> maybe even an smd led
[12:57:04] <OndraSter> (I have not searched the internet yet)
[12:57:08] <N2TOH> I was at the store so if anybody answered my question I would have missed the answer
[12:57:10] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter: atmega328 replacement
[12:59:41] <OndraSter> megal0maniac_afk, which one?
[13:01:05] <OndraSter> hmm ST (and presumably TI) have got some 13.56MHz readers
[13:01:08] <OndraSter> which does not sound half bad
[13:01:11] <OndraSter> (with SPI/UART)
[13:16:57] <megal0maniac_afk> The xmega e series
[13:17:44] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter: I just bought this http://www.ebay.com/itm/400426561641
[13:17:54] <megal0maniac_afk> It's also 13.56MHz
[13:18:02] <megal0maniac_afk> http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/MFRC522.pdf
[13:18:27] <megal0maniac_afk> I2C/SPI/UART read and write
[13:21:24] <N2TOH> any way to use these for 2 way coms?
[13:22:29] <rlc> what happened to at32ap7000?
[13:23:25] <megal0maniac_afk> Well, I googled it
[13:23:26] <rlc> I cannot find this chip on atmel website
[13:23:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Clicked on the first hit
[13:23:38] <megal0maniac_afk> (Atmel page)
[13:23:40] <megal0maniac_afk> Mature product; not recommended for new designs.
[13:24:09] <megal0maniac_afk> So there's that...
[13:24:09] <rlc> Is it replaced by 66MHZ avr32?
[13:24:29] <rlc> From 150MHz to 66MHz
[13:25:55] <N2TOH> is there a RFID chip that can act as both a most and target device?
[13:28:40] <OndraSter> the ST one is cheaper on mouser, megal0maniac_afk
[13:29:24] <megal0maniac_afk> rlc: I think that kind of thing is probably replaced by ARM
[13:31:56] <carabia> #ARM
[13:33:07] <megal0maniac_afk> rlc: Use the microcontroller selector on the atmel site
[13:39:20] <rlc> Ok
[13:39:26] <rlc> I saw it
[13:39:28] <rlc> Thanks
[14:35:56] <OndraSter> hmm the RFID reader.. some cheap ST/TI/whatever transceiver + xmega64d4/d3 + wiznet w5100/5500
[14:36:10] <OndraSter> does not sound that expensive even for 1 prototype + 10 or so real devices
[14:36:23] <OndraSter> (+ some 128kB external serial SRAM to cache the card IDs when the network has crashed)
[14:36:35] <OndraSter> or to quickly check whether the user is there and sync it once in a while
[14:37:05] <OndraSter> and PoE to get power to the device
[14:40:02] <OndraSter> does not sound that hard to do really
[14:53:03] <rlc> Anyone has a nice code for atmega for HD44780?
[14:53:36] <N2TOH> nope, but I'm sure MR.Google will have a few answers for you.
[15:02:25] <beaky> hello
[15:02:37] <beaky> how do i get started with at91sam sereis
[15:02:50] <carabia> hello
[15:02:55] <carabia> i love at91sam
[15:03:22] <carabia> do you need 32 bits just for smps
[15:03:29] <carabia> :_D
[15:03:32] <beaky> no i need ethernet
[15:03:39] <carabia> do u smps ethernet
[15:03:42] <beaky> yes
[15:03:57] <beaky> ethernet-controlled smps
[15:04:04] <beaky> also for data logging of power soncumpsingt
[15:04:09] <beaky> consmupiton
[15:04:15] <carabia> u can use something simpler
[15:04:18] <carabia> use uart
[15:04:31] <beaky> right uart seems a good choice
[15:04:39] <carabia> right
[15:04:46] <beaky> but its not as awesome as ethernet
[15:04:58] <carabia> well
[15:05:10] <specing> beaky: ethernet consumes lots of electrons
[15:05:15] <beaky> ah right
[15:05:18] <carabia> implement ethernet on the target device u are feeding uart
[15:05:26] <beaky> i need a beefy supply for ethernet
[15:05:40] <specing> go with serial and just connect to a router
[15:05:42] <beaky> which will ruin the point of my smps
[15:05:47] <specing> most routers have serial
[15:05:49] <carabia> no
[15:05:51] <carabia> stfu
[15:05:53] <carabia> do not smps
[15:05:59] <beaky> why not? :(
[15:06:22] <beaky> i have it working in sim with current feedback regulation
[15:06:28] <carabia> controlling smps consumes electrons
[15:06:55] <beaky> but attiny consumes little electrons
[15:07:08] <carabia> more than you think
[15:07:18] <beaky> 10mA seems tiny
[15:08:20] <carabia> Do you know like how many fking electrons that is?
[15:09:01] <beaky> thats 6.0 * 10^20 electrons eaten by the tiny
[15:09:05] <beaky> per second
[15:09:28] <beaky> 6.0 * 10^21 wow i fail at arithmetic
[15:09:29] <carabia> get a grip
[15:09:54] <beaky> but still i need the attiny there
[15:09:57] <beaky> for datalogging
[15:10:19] <beaky> and digital control, etc.
[15:10:20] <carabia> so have you still figured out it's easier to use a smps chip?
[15:10:25] <carabia> what you can do
[15:10:52] <carabia> is use an smps chip, and measure the current with a well preferably a hall effect sensor
[15:10:58] <carabia> depends on your load
[15:11:07] <carabia> you might not have to use a hall effect sensor
[15:11:24] <carabia> and you can measure voltage with a simple resistor divider if needed
[15:11:38] <carabia> and then dish that out in uart or log to an sd card
[15:11:41] <carabia> too hard?
[15:12:03] <carabia> beaky: i find you too much armchair and too lil engineer
[15:12:13] <carabia> you gotta be out there, smokin' stuff.
[15:12:46] <beaky> im still waiting for my components to arrive :(
[15:13:10] <carabia> take your mom's vibrator apart
[15:13:13] <carabia> plenty of useful components in it
[15:13:34] <carabia> probably even an smps
[15:13:59] <beaky> yes i could use those low-dropout micropower voltage regulators
[15:14:13] <beaky> i wonder if i cna find a mosfets inside something
[15:14:26] <carabia> I'd figure there might be a transistor in a vibrator
[15:14:31] <bss36504> Wow, guess I signed on at the right time...or the wrong time...
[15:14:31] <carabia> driving the dc motor
[15:14:35] <beaky> ah right
[15:14:39] <carabia> :D
[15:14:49] <beaky> ok i will open this cheapo toy car
[15:14:57] <bss36504> or maybe it's just a straight battery to a motor with an offset weight...
[15:15:10] <carabia> bss36504: Could be
[15:15:15] <carabia> a vibra is an offset weight in any case
[15:15:26] <carabia> but there might be a tranq. if it has multiple modes
[15:15:36] <bss36504> I cant believe we're actually speculating about this right now...
[15:16:11] <carabia> we are
[15:16:31] <carabia> And you know. If beaky had developed it, the dc motor would be pwm-driven
[15:16:34] <carabia> with an arduino
[15:16:40] <carabia> which would make the size a bit questionale
[15:16:41] <bss36504> HA! for sure
[15:16:43] <carabia> questionable
[15:16:52] <beaky> no i would use a sot-23 attiny11
[15:16:55] <carabia> however, the most hardcore users would have no problem fitting it in
[15:17:00] <beaky> i design for low cost and low profile
[15:17:02] <bss36504> well, probably small enough for his mother. hey-oh!
[15:17:07] <carabia> :D
[15:17:16] <carabia> ^five.
[15:18:05] <carabia> I suspect, you could make a sort of a vibrator without an offset weight
[15:18:09] <beaky> http://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX638.pdf
[15:18:14] <carabia> if you pwm'd it with low enough frequency
[15:18:16] <beaky> is thsi a good choice for buck converter
[15:18:31] <bss36504> maybe reciprocating?
[15:18:43] <bss36504> just a solenoid or something.
[15:19:01] <carabia> a low freq vibra with a dc motor could be applicable I guess
[15:19:10] <carabia> But it would be kind of lame. Probably wouldn't feel a thing
[15:20:40] <bss36504> beaky: depends on what you need. YOU have to decide if it fits YOUR application. If you can't determine that, you shouldn't be using it.
[15:20:47] <beaky> ah
[15:21:10] <beaky> my book goes on about how the max638 is a revolution of smps ics
[15:21:29] <carabia> and what is this book
[15:21:42] <beaky> art of electronics by hrowitz and hill
[15:21:52] <carabia> tough reads
[15:21:59] <carabia> mind you it's from the 80s
[15:22:02] <beaky> http://imgur.com/3RoAjC6 thhis is my design for buck converter
[15:22:03] <bss36504> 85% is actually not very good these days.
[15:22:26] <bss36504> again, beaky, how did you choose your component values?
[15:22:27] <N2TOH> carabia, keep reading
[15:22:29] <carabia> Where's the SMPS?
[15:22:54] <carabia> dude. You gotta use the AVR, to smps the input of the SMPS. That way, you SMPS your SMPS which is doubly efficient
[15:23:11] <bss36504> Yo dawg, I heard you like SMPS
[15:23:26] <beaky> i chose my values iwth what i have in my toolbox
[15:23:31] <bss36504> NO!
[15:23:34] <bss36504> bad :P
[15:23:38] <carabia> every good engineer does that
[15:23:42] <carabia> +1
[15:23:52] <bss36504> Not if you want to make a decent SMPS
[15:24:06] <carabia> dude
[15:24:07] <bss36504> beaky: did you read that thing I sent you the other day?
[15:24:21] <beaky> the tiny avr appnote?
[15:24:26] * N2TOH does it get the job done, AND produce a check? OK DONE!
[15:24:28] <beaky> about making smps
[15:24:44] <bss36504> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfggnw5etwwbh3t/Buck%20Converter%20Example.pdf
[15:24:51] <bss36504> that one.
[15:25:00] <ambro718> when using SPI in master mode, for which pins do I need to set data direction?
[15:25:19] <N2TOH> depends on the part
[15:25:46] <bss36504> MOSI=out, SCK=out, CS=out MISO=in
[15:26:04] <N2TOH> please reference your data sheets like an obedient engineering rep.
[15:26:20] <carabia> Why don't you use the ACDC register of AVR's? It's an upgraded version of the DCDC register n1njaneer told you a few days ago? ACDC register is 32-bits, the first two bytes are the incoming voltage, first byte being the number preceding the decimal point and the second one is the one trailing it. This is a huge improvement over the DCDC register which only allowed integer regulation.
[15:26:22] <ambro718> right, but will any of this be implicitly done by enabling SPI (I men effectively, not changing DDR)
[15:26:46] <bss36504> carabia: ooh thats mean
[15:27:05] <bss36504> ambro718: no, you have to set up the I/Os
[15:27:10] <ambro718> ok, thanks
[15:27:16] <bss36504> then configure the SPI module.
[15:27:18] <carabia> Then, there's a hidden feature, if you write the first 4 notes of Highway to Hell to the ACDC register, connect a speaker to gnd and the TX line, it starts playing the song. Hook up a mic in RX, You can actually record a karaoke version with the song played as a background
[15:27:35] <bss36504> hahaha
[15:27:55] <carabia> Which then gets uploaded via USB given your AVR supports it
[15:28:03] <beaky> ill just use the pwm
[15:28:16] <bss36504> -_-
[15:28:57] <beaky> the attiny features advanced pwm
[15:28:57] <bss36504> carabia: https://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/m/image/1281/35/1281351891588.jpg
[15:29:42] <carabia> ...
[15:30:17] <bss36504> beaky: He's messing with you, just make sure you understand how to pick components for an SMPS before you try and design one, otherwise it might work, it might not, but you'll have learned very little either way.
[15:30:31] <beaky> ok i will learn wikipedia article
[15:30:34] <carabia> :D
[15:30:42] <beaky> or read the chapter of my book on smps
[15:30:56] <beaky> even if its advice is "just buy a smps ic"
[15:30:57] <carabia> using the ACDC you can connectr mains straight. Given voltage of 100-240 VAC
[15:31:00] <bss36504> thats fine too. The principles will be the same, even if specific tech is outdated.
[15:31:16] <bss36504> dont connect mains to your mcu, you might actually die
[15:31:20] <bss36504> lol
[15:47:12] <OndraSter> I was like "so many lines in a few minutes I was not watching.. must be beaky "
[15:47:46] <bss36504> It's a little bit shocking how well known he is
[15:51:08] <OndraSter> aye
[15:51:15] <OndraSter> considering how much I have been reading this chat lately
[15:51:18] <OndraSter> (like, almost none at all)
[15:51:20] <OndraSter> not*
[15:52:35] <OndraSter> also tip for beaky - SMPSs can generate rather high voltages
[15:52:39] <OndraSter> even if you don't want to :)
[15:52:43] <OndraSter> if you wrongly regulate it
[15:52:56] <OndraSter> and also remember that 1k resistor at 5V is something else than 1k at 150V :D
[15:53:07] <carabia> orly?
[15:53:11] <carabia> *shock*
[15:53:14] <OndraSter> aye
[15:53:27] <carabia> dayumn. Thanks for opening my eyes
[15:53:30] <OndraSter> I was using a bleeder... then I wasl ike "wtf is the smell"
[15:53:38] <OndraSter> forgot that I was doing 180V supply this time :D
[15:53:45] <carabia> I was trembling in the darkness...
[15:53:50] <carabia> Now, you've shown me the light
[15:53:56] <beaky> http://kd1jv.qrpradio.com/tiny13switcher.pdf
[15:54:11] <OndraSter> :P carabia
[15:54:42] <carabia> If I could - I would send you nudes.
[15:54:52] <carabia> Chances are you don't want them
[15:56:09] <beaky> i love bjts
[15:56:19] <bss36504> oh here we go...
[15:56:50] <carabia> what do you love? I love npn
[15:57:12] <OndraSter> what is love? voltage don't hurt me
[15:57:23] <carabia> :D
[15:57:49] <bss36504> I Dont know, if amps are there, I wanted to probe, but you don't care.
[15:57:50] <carabia> voltage doesn't hurt
[15:58:48] <bss36504> so what is on, and what is off, just give me a sign...
[15:58:56] <bss36504> what is love? voltage dont hurt me
[15:59:00] <bss36504> dont hurt me
[15:59:02] <bss36504> no more
[15:59:16] <bss36504> Should I continue?
[15:59:20] <carabia> No
[15:59:26] <carabia> i meant, voltage doesn't hurt
[16:00:15] <bss36504> OndraSter: You liked my rendition of "what is love", right?
[16:02:41] <carabia> i don't feel like probing no sir no probing today
[16:03:41] <carabia> probing probing p-p-p-probing
[16:04:52] <OndraSter> :)
[16:05:09] <OndraSter> bss36504, "amps" would not fit...
[16:05:23] <OndraSter> and you need voltage to get the amps up your butt first.
[16:05:41] <bss36504> woah woah, this is getting strange.
[16:06:11] <OndraSter> oops, it was ment to be for carabia
[16:06:18] <carabia> why does it need to be up the butt
[16:06:44] <OndraSter> one of many places
[16:07:18] <carabia> I think it was a freudian slip
[16:07:32] <OndraSter> a what?
[16:07:36] <carabia> Cause there's a lot of places you could fit e.g. an alligator clip
[16:07:40] <bss36504> Soo theres really not much AVR talk going on here....
[16:07:42] <OndraSter> :D
[16:07:47] <OndraSter> bss36504, I tried few hours ago
[16:07:58] <OndraSter> but nobody apparently tried reading 13.56MHz cards on AVR
[16:08:03] <OndraSter> so I ended up googling instead
[16:08:21] <carabia> OndraSter: google it, googloid
[16:08:32] <bss36504> Alright, well I'm trying to import a LUFA demo into an existing AS project, and it's not going well. SO. MANY. FILES.
[16:08:47] <OndraSter> mm LUFA
[16:08:49] <OndraSter> which chip?
[16:09:22] <OndraSter> well, talking about the 13.56MHz - I was told that there are new ISIC cards coming up.. anybody knows something about that?
[16:09:30] <OndraSter> they are/were normal 13.56MHz MILFARE or something
[16:09:34] <OndraSter> the ISO**** standard
[16:09:46] <OndraSter> new ones are supposedly not
[16:10:31] <bss36504> Atmega32U2. Basically I want to have Mass Storage ability, but not have that as the main task. I intended to just rename main in MassStorage.c to something like runMassStorage, then write the rest of my code. The importation process has not been smooth. I'll probably just use AS to make an example project, then copy those files into this project.
[16:11:06] <OndraSter> hmm
[16:11:10] <OndraSter> I have never tried LUFA myself tbh
[16:11:13] <OndraSter> I wrote my stack instead :D
[16:11:20] <bss36504> Oh and btw, I've got the mass storage demo working elsewhere, but that project is just a mass storage device, so it was an easier process. I need to read up on the LUFA build process
[16:11:30] <bss36504> either way, enough for tonight.
[16:11:57] <bss36504> also, thats impressive. LUFA is pretty great though.
[16:13:33] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: Did you blow up your attiny?
[16:13:42] <carabia> think he did
[16:13:50] <carabia> he misconfigured the ACDC register
[16:14:06] <OndraSter> ACDC!
[16:14:30] <Tom_itx> back in black
[16:14:40] <megal0maniac_afk> I love ACDC
[16:15:04] <bss36504> ACϟDC
[16:15:40] <bss36504> Such an overrated band
[16:15:53] <Tom_itx> i got 6 or so of their albums on my mp3
[16:15:53] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm trying to figure out PWM
[16:16:09] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac_afk, it's a pulse you vary to control things
[16:16:12] <Tom_itx> did that help?
[16:16:14] <megal0maniac_afk> There seems to be a hell of a lot about timers, and hardly anything on PWM in the datasheet
[16:16:16] <bss36504> Now dont get me wrong, I may be a whippersnapper, but I do like a lot of older classic rock. Just not ACDC, or Rush (sorry, eh)
[16:16:23] <carabia> Tom_itx: ACDC is shit
[16:16:36] <megal0maniac_afk> Tom_itx: No, not at all. I know what it is :)
[16:16:49] <carabia> the guitarist, ripped the duck walk off of chuck berry
[16:16:52] <carabia> who is the real king of rock
[16:16:56] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac_afk, set the period with the prescaler then change the duty with the ocrx reg
[16:16:57] <carabia> not elvis. he just did shitty ballads
[16:17:00] <Tom_itx> did that help?
[16:17:09] <bss36504> Yeah, that's helpful
[16:17:25] <Tom_itx> did you read dean's article on it?
[16:17:42] <megal0maniac_afk> No, but now that I know it exists...
[16:17:49] <Tom_itx> one sec
[16:17:57] <megal0maniac_afk> Tom_itx: It's all good, I've got it
[16:18:20] <megal0maniac_afk> The timers one I take it
[16:18:30] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/abcminiuser/articles/avr_timers_index.php
[16:18:33] <Tom_itx> part 9
[16:18:45] <carabia> Can I SMPS?
[16:18:53] <Tom_itx> can you?
[16:18:55] <carabia> PWM AND TRANSISTOR SOUNDS GOOD
[16:19:03] <carabia> do i needs teh gate drivur?
[16:19:10] <Tom_itx> PWM and MOSFET sound better
[16:19:20] <carabia> mosfet is transistur
[16:19:28] <carabia> nao do i needs teh gaet drivur plx?
[16:19:36] <Tom_itx> more like a switch
[16:19:36] <carabia> wat r best gate drivur???
[16:19:44] <bss36504> I love gates
[16:19:51] <carabia> me too
[16:20:13] <bss36504> I fuckin' love you guys, you know that? :')
[16:20:26] <OndraSter> ok, so ISIC cards should be MIFARE 1k
[16:20:29] <OndraSter> now, I need to read them ;D
[16:20:31] <Tom_itx> hip4081
[16:20:50] <carabia> Tom_itx: bestest?
[16:20:58] <Tom_itx> never
[16:21:15] <megal0maniac_afk> 2n7002
[16:21:38] <carabia> guize. I need good gate driver to drive transistor for me smps
[16:21:40] <carabia> i love msps
[16:21:44] <megal0maniac_afk> Tom_itx: I guess I'm just strugging to grasp how the timer is used to produce pwm
[16:21:56] <carabia> good coil filter. wat r best?
[16:22:03] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk: You have a free running counter.
[16:22:14] <tzanger> carabia: is there a reason you're typing like you're having a stroke?
[16:22:19] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac_afk, the timer sets the period ( frequency )
[16:22:22] <carabia> tzanger: both
[16:22:23] <bss36504> it counts in the timer count register (TMRCNT?)
[16:22:30] <Tom_itx> the OCRX register sets the duty cycle of that period
[16:22:47] <bss36504> now, to make a pwm, it the counter is compared agains a preset value, stored in the OCRX register.
[16:23:06] <bss36504> When it reaches the value in the OCRX register, it toggles the output, and toggles again when the timer register overflows
[16:23:15] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac_afk, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_pwm_index.php
[16:23:21] <Tom_itx> look at the code file
[16:23:21] <bss36504> now you have a duty cycle set by OCRX
[16:23:58] <bss36504> and a period determined by how much time it takes to count to the overflow value of the timer count register (and this is controlled by the prescaler)
[16:25:32] <megal0maniac_afk> Okay, so say you preload the timer to count from 0 to 9. You set OCRx to match if the timer > 4. That gives you a duty cycle of 50%. And the frequency / period is determined by the preloaded value combined with the prescalar
[16:25:40] <megal0maniac_afk> *prescaler
[16:25:54] <Tom_itx> no
[16:25:56] <bss36504> no
[16:26:10] <bss36504> lets say the timer register is 3 bits long
[16:26:12] <Tom_itx> if it's an 8 bit timer you can set the ocrx reg from 0 to 254
[16:26:17] <bss36504> and so is the compare register
[16:26:22] <Tom_itx> so 128 would be 50% duty
[16:26:27] <OndraSter> megal0maniac_afk, no
[16:26:37] <megal0maniac_afk> \o/
[16:26:40] <bss36504> you feed a clock into the timer, and the timer counts up one for every clock, and stores it in the timer register.
[16:26:41] <OndraSter> ^ that
[16:27:04] <Tom_itx> the timer will count to 255 then overflow
[16:27:15] <Tom_itx> you preset the timer with ocrx to shorten the duty
[16:27:22] <bss36504> if you were to load a 4 into the compare register, then you would get 50% duty because the timer will count 4 times with the output low, and 4 times with it high, then overflow and start at 0 again
[16:27:39] <bss36504> the thing is, the timers in the avr are more bits, like 8 or 16
[16:28:38] <bss36504> so you have much finer control over duty cycle. the overall period of the waveform is determined by number of bits and the speed of the clock feeding it. A 1ms period clock into a 8 bit timer gives you 255 ms periods on your pwm.
[16:28:39] <megal0maniac_afk> I think I just failed to express myself :)
[16:29:04] <megal0maniac_afk> Got it
[16:34:06] <megal0maniac_afk> And ICR0x is used to set the TOP value for the timer (truncate it)
[16:34:20] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/mega128/pwm_test/
[16:34:30] <Tom_itx> there's code for both 8 and 16 bit timers
[16:35:10] <megal0maniac_afk> I'm bookmarking all of it, but I want to make sure that I understand before I look through code
[16:35:22] <megal0maniac_afk> Then at least I can identify stuff ;)
[16:35:30] <Tom_itx> well look at the timer registers and follow along in the data sheet
[16:35:35] <Tom_itx> to see how it's all set up
[16:36:02] <Tom_itx> some options vary from chip to chip
[16:36:12] <megal0maniac_afk> Yip, that's what I'm (slowly) doing
[16:36:18] <megal0maniac_afk> There's a lot of back and forth
[16:36:40] <megal0maniac_afk> And a crap load of options, even on a tiny10
[16:36:51] <Tom_itx> oh i got timy 10 code too
[16:36:55] <Tom_itx> you should have said...
[16:37:06] <megal0maniac_afk> Of course you do :P
[16:37:23] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/
[16:37:37] <OndraSter> so apparently there are two used standards for ISIC: mifare standard and mifare desfire
[16:37:39] <OndraSter> awesome
[16:38:27] <bss36504> read that as mifare desire :P
[16:39:20] <bss36504> megal0maniac_afk: I found the timer section to be an enlightening read.
[16:40:02] <megal0maniac_afk> It is, once you wrap your head around it
[16:40:14] <megal0maniac_afk> Lots of modes, it gets confusing quickly
[16:40:49] <bss36504> yeah, it's kinda neat how elegant it is.
[16:41:26] <OndraSter> haha, "if your card has got 10 numbers, it is mifare standard. 17 numbers = mifare desfire"
[16:41:29] <OndraSter> why does mine have 12
[16:41:49] <bss36504> just truncate it to 10
[16:42:04] <carabia> it's like you're the retarded kid in school, where the teachers just told you're "special"
[16:42:17] <OndraSter> bss36504, well I can't, I need to know which std should I design it for
[16:42:22] <OndraSter> which chip should I get that is capable of reading it D:
[16:42:36] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter: That one I linked to does everything
[16:42:50] <bss36504> I was kidding of course. I know literally zero things about MIFARE other than what I read in the wikipedia summary
[16:42:52] <OndraSter> well, you have ISIC at your school I presume?
[16:42:58] <OndraSter> (@ megal0maniac_afk )
[16:43:06] <megal0maniac_afk> Haha! No
[16:43:10] <bss36504> I dunno actually. I dont think so
[16:43:11] <megal0maniac_afk> Magnetic strips
[16:43:18] <bss36504> oh wait, not me
[16:43:21] <OndraSter> oh
[16:43:26] <OndraSter> I was hoping you would try reading it for me :(
[16:43:46] <megal0maniac_afk> Well I ordered that reader I linked to
[16:43:55] <megal0maniac_afk> But it's going to take a while
[16:44:08] <OndraSter> was it this one?
[16:44:09] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400426561641
[16:44:19] <megal0maniac_afk> Yip
[16:44:23] <OndraSter> cheap enough
[16:44:40] <OndraSter> I can always check out what chip it has..
[16:44:47] <OndraSter> oh
[16:44:49] <OndraSter> mfrc522
[16:45:03] <megal0maniac_afk> The MFRC522 supports all variants of the MIFARE Mini, MIFARE 1K, MIFARE 4K, MIFARE Ultralight, MIFARE DESFire EV1 and MIFARE Plus RF identification protocols.
[16:45:11] <OndraSter> already ahead of you, reading the datasheet
[16:45:29] <megal0maniac_afk> :)
[16:45:45] <OndraSter> http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NXP-Semiconductors/MFRC52201HN1151/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvQHWqrh58LgXtw8BZ1psdi0wsCKowVwL8%3d
[16:45:47] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac_afk, there's a tiny10 app there that is a 'red light' and siren thing
[16:45:48] <OndraSter> and it is not even that expensive
[16:46:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/goodies/pwm/
[16:46:12] <Tom_itx> kinda fun
[16:46:19] <Tom_itx> need a piezo and leds
[16:46:29] <megal0maniac_afk> Tom_itx: Red light. Siren. Police? :P
[16:46:36] <megal0maniac_afk> I'll check it out, thanks
[16:46:54] <megal0maniac_afk> Nooooooooooo
[16:46:56] <megal0maniac_afk> ASM
[16:46:58] <carabia> Tom_itx: I find your site a nice timemachine back to the early 90's
[16:48:26] <beaky> I love my attiny
[16:48:32] <carabia> i love attiny
[16:48:38] <bss36504> jesus h...
[16:48:55] <megal0maniac_afk> /o\
[16:49:04] <beaky> alright I am using my ir2104 to drive a noms fromt eh attiny
[16:49:09] <carabia> jesus.h implements void Create()
[16:49:10] <beaky> nmos*
[16:49:26] <carabia> or, introduces
[16:49:50] <beaky> btw, how do i make the attiny do 32.5kHz pwm
[16:49:52] <bss36504> carabia: no thats the parent class, god.hpp
[16:50:02] <carabia> -pp
[16:50:12] <carabia> no-one needs that. Not even jesus
[16:50:13] <Tom_itx> megal0maniac_afk, that was before avrgcc supported the attiny10
[16:50:15] <beaky> i think i can use a PLL to get it up to 250kHz
[16:50:20] <beaky> the internal attiny pll
[16:50:21] <Tom_itx> the newer compilers do
[16:50:23] <beaky> right?
[16:50:45] <megal0maniac_afk> That explains the abundance of ASM code examples for it
[16:51:09] <bss36504> beaky: just configure the prescaler as close as you can, then adjust the overflow value. Scroll up for all the links that Tom_itx has posted for megal0maniac_afk.
[16:51:28] <beaky> ah
[16:51:39] <beaky> how do i adjust the overflow value wont it be reset back to 256?
[16:51:47] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: READ
[16:51:52] <beaky> ok :D
[16:52:07] <megal0maniac_afk> Don't say "ah" and then dismiss what you've acknowledged
[16:52:20] <carabia> megal0maniac_afk: that's redundant
[16:52:25] <megal0maniac_afk> Exactly
[16:52:31] <carabia> the assumption is there are no acknowledgements
[16:52:38] <carabia> always live by it
[16:53:19] <OndraSter> so
[16:53:23] <beaky> wow this whole time i've been setting TCNTx instead of ICR0x to set the top count
[16:53:25] <beaky> i am silly
[16:54:31] <beaky> so theres no pll to improve the frequency without sacrificing resolution
[16:55:20] <bss36504> there is no PLL in the attiny
[16:55:30] <bss36504> wait, I lied
[16:55:36] <bss36504> ignore that
[16:55:50] <OndraSter> some had
[16:55:51] <OndraSter> have
[16:55:57] <beaky> yeah the newer ones
[16:56:03] <beaky> the attiny is awesome
[16:56:14] <beaky> its not the size that maters its how its used
[16:56:23] <beaky> that is why i use attiny instead of atmega
[16:56:27] <bss36504> whatever helps you sleep at night
[16:56:59] <OndraSter> hehe
[16:57:36] <beaky> ah damn
[16:57:42] <beaky> i have the tiny85v
[16:57:44] <beaky> which doesn't have pll
[16:57:48] <bss36504> beaky: in the literally 2 seconds it took me to check, it would appear that you cant clock the timer/counter0 with PWM with the PLL. only the system clock and prescaled clocks. Page 66
[16:59:41] <megal0maniac_afk> Goodnight all!
[17:00:19] <beaky> godnight
[17:00:29] <beaky> but timr1 can use pwm
[17:00:36] <beaky> page 86
[17:02:55] <bss36504> Ok, do that then. Why ask if you've already read it? I don't use ATtinys, I just went on an assumption that you were using the " timer/counter0 with PWM". I'm not gonna read an entire datasheet for you.
[17:04:30] <beaky> i love attiny because it features complementary pwms
[17:04:41] <beaky> this helps implementing synchronous buck converter
[17:04:46] <OndraSter> that's saying like "I like girls because they have legs"
[17:05:01] <OndraSter> that's like saying*
[17:05:05] <beaky> well attiny has the best legs
[17:05:13] <carabia> well i like good legged chicks
[17:05:31] <jacekowski> i like chicks for what is between the legs
[17:05:38] <carabia> that too
[17:05:56] <carabia> their inputs are quite intriguing, output not so much
[17:06:04] <carabia> though one can configure all of it as input
[17:06:32] <bss36504> beaky: your schematic wasn't even a sync buck though, so what does it matter?
[17:06:58] <bss36504> and maybe someone else can correct me, but aren't all the timers in a chip synced if they use the same clock source?
[17:07:33] <OndraSter> for starters, making complementary pwms is as easy as setting the other OCR to the same value and just setting it to set the opposite way than the other one
[17:07:49] <OndraSter> and to continue, xmega goes way further with its (high-speed) high-precision PWM
[17:07:54] <OndraSter> and dead time insertion
[17:07:55] <OndraSter> and what not
[17:08:03] <OndraSter> I don't remember all the features, there are way too many
[17:08:16] <carabia> so ATXMEGA is the best for SMPSING?
[17:08:22] <bss36504> OndraSter: thats what I thought. Thats like saying I like this girl because she has legs, just like that other girl over there.
[17:08:25] <OndraSter> :D :D carabia
[17:08:31] <bss36504> xmega is amazing in every way
[17:08:35] <OndraSter> it is
[17:08:38] <bss36504> also yeah
[17:09:31] <OndraSter> yey, they updated ebay, you don'T have to log into paypal anymore if you enable it!
[17:09:36] <beaky> why use xmega when you can use at91sam
[17:09:48] <OndraSter> that's like using a cannon on a beak-less fly
[17:09:52] <bss36504> why use a tiny when you can use a mega
[17:10:00] <OndraSter> why use mega when you can use Core i7
[17:10:15] <bss36504> why use an i7 when you can use a cray supercomputer
[17:10:31] <OndraSter> :)
[17:10:36] <OndraSter> why not clay supercomputer?
[17:10:42] <carabia> why use i7 when you can use CRAY
[17:10:48] <carabia> it's cray not clay
[17:10:51] <OndraSter> I know
[17:10:54] <carabia> f off
[17:10:56] <OndraSter> that is why I made the joke.
[17:11:01] <carabia> cray is the best for smpsing
[17:11:05] <carabia> high precision smps
[17:11:09] <OndraSter> :D
[17:11:10] <bss36504> OndraSter: it would be water soluble
[17:11:23] <OndraSter> but SMPS does not work with water in any way
[17:11:24] <OndraSter> or does it
[17:11:33] <bss36504> no a clay supercomputer
[17:11:55] <carabia> why not use a 68k
[17:12:06] <OndraSter> why not 80C51
[17:12:15] <carabia> why not use a vacuum tube comp
[17:12:16] <OndraSter> or Z-eighty
[17:12:23] <OndraSter> why not dedicated transistors?
[17:12:30] <bss36504> why not use op amps
[17:12:34] <OndraSter> why not build your own microcontroller out of diodes
[17:12:40] <inkjetunito> 555s
[17:12:46] <OndraSter> or relays?!
[17:14:21] <carabia> STFU. VACUUM TUBES
[17:14:36] <carabia> I'm gonna make one
[17:14:39] <carabia> Just to make you jealous
[17:14:48] <OndraSter> do it
[17:14:56] <OndraSter> I maybe have one or two somewhere
[17:14:57] <OndraSter> vacuum tubes
[17:15:03] <OndraSter> from when I was little... I threw them awa y:(
[17:15:03] <carabia> I have a bunch
[17:15:36] <OndraSter> triodes...
[17:15:44] <OndraSter> pentodes
[17:15:47] <beaky> i will use 4000-series cmos chips
[17:15:50] <carabia> I'll make a vacuum tube "mcu" for SMPSing
[17:15:55] <carabia> that'll make beaky nuts
[17:15:59] <carabia> nuts i tell you. nuts.
[17:16:03] <OndraSter> just because it will work
[17:16:08] <beaky> it will?
[17:16:10] <carabia> It will.
[17:16:16] <OndraSter> definitely
[17:16:23] <carabia> you lack faith
[17:17:01] <carabia> First, I will - like all the clueless armchair engineers - make a prototype in "minecraft"
[17:17:03] <carabia> yes
[17:17:07] <OndraSter> yes!
[17:17:09] <OndraSter> I can help you with that
[17:17:15] <carabia> I know you can
[17:17:16] <OndraSter> redstone is absolutely absolutely awful thing to work with
[17:17:37] <carabia> I don't know what that is, but I think I read somewhere about being able to make circuits in minecraft
[17:17:41] <carabia> so yes that's a big yes
[17:17:43] <OndraSter> you can
[17:17:49] <OndraSter> but the vanilla redstone is awful :)
[17:18:08] <OndraSter> well now you have a comparator with which making some basic logic gates is easier, but still
[17:18:11] <carabia> Yeah. I imagine anyone starting with electronics, fucking minecraft is the way to go
[17:18:14] <OndraSter> (yes, I play MC... but not vanilla)
[17:18:25] <carabia> I suspect you're a student of some sorts
[17:18:32] <OndraSter> electronics engineering
[17:18:33] <OndraSter> yes
[17:18:47] <OndraSter> (the hardware field on a software faculty :D)
[17:18:53] <carabia> great. I want my future pacer to be drawn by some minecraft nerd
[17:18:59] <OndraSter> :
[17:19:00] <OndraSter> :D
[17:19:03] <carabia> or some online roleplaying addict
[17:19:06] <OndraSter> wait, you don't know me do you?
[17:19:12] <carabia> I don't
[17:19:15] <OndraSter> you don't remember me from months ago
[17:19:16] <OndraSter> oh
[17:19:18] <OndraSter> I did some stuff
[17:19:20] <OndraSter> tell him megal0maniac_afk
[17:19:29] <carabia> All I know is you're from eastern europe. I think czech republic
[17:19:32] <OndraSter> yes
[17:19:37] <OndraSter> like 3072 LEDs controlled by a single atmega.. data read from a computer
[17:19:38] <OndraSter> over USB
[17:19:44] <OndraSter> I also wrote USB (+ CDC) stacks for xmega
[17:19:59] <OndraSter> those 3072 LEDs ofc supported PWM, no dedicated PWM chips though
[17:20:01] <OndraSter> and colours!
[17:20:02] <carabia> 3072 leds? like a MUX?
[17:20:05] <OndraSter> don't forget the colours
[17:20:17] <OndraSter> well I was muxing always 2 lines out of 32 lines at once
[17:20:22] <OndraSter> but yeah
[17:20:24] <OndraSter> 2k lines of ASM code
[17:20:25] <carabia> lame
[17:20:27] <OndraSter> to get it all working
[17:20:28] <OndraSter> :<
[17:20:35] <carabia> I need all to be ctrld individually
[17:20:39] <OndraSter> hehe
[17:20:45] <carabia> so, more muxing
[17:20:52] <OndraSter> I used shift registers, all 24 of them!
[17:20:58] <OndraSter> I should have used 16bit ones with PWM control
[17:21:00] <carabia> you need way more than that
[17:21:01] <OndraSter> would have been better :(
[17:21:48] <OndraSter> it was my project for when I was finishing and graduating from my middle school
[17:21:53] <OndraSter> then I wrote the USB + CDC stacks for xmega
[17:21:55] <OndraSter> all from scratch
[17:22:04] <OndraSter> and nearly finished xmega bootloader :P
[17:22:43] <OndraSter> I did my part of electronics and low-level programming already so no, I am not some random online roleplaying MC addict :P
[17:23:00] <carabia> Still, don't design my pacer pls
[17:23:07] <OndraSter> :D
[17:23:11] <OndraSter> live so you don't need one
[17:23:30] <carabia> I think dead people have little to no need for pacers
[17:24:49] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter: I'm not the person to ask to tell people about what you do ;)
[17:24:53] <OndraSter> :(
[17:24:57] <megal0maniac_afk> Wheres xide?
[17:25:02] <OndraSter> on my HDD
[17:25:09] <OndraSter> waiting for the bootloader to be finished
[17:25:16] <OndraSter> but with SAMD20 etc coming
[17:25:22] <OndraSter> and new arduinos with x86 CPUs coming..
[17:25:28] <megal0maniac_afk> hopeless :)
[17:25:39] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, did you see that link i posted earlier?
[17:25:43] <OndraSter> which one?
[17:25:44] <megal0maniac_afk> no after sales support
[17:26:23] <OndraSter> :<
[17:26:26] <Tom_itx> intel's galileo board
[17:26:32] <OndraSter> oh yes
[17:26:37] <OndraSter> I did
[17:26:42] <Tom_itx> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Digital_ICs/Microprocessors_Microcontrollers_DSPs/Introducing_Intel_39_s_Galileo_Development_Board.aspx
[17:26:42] <megal0maniac_afk> carabia: he did make quite a nice breakout for xmega though. only made 3
[17:26:53] <OndraSter> it is the Arduino I ment, Tom_itx
[17:27:45] <OndraSter> only 57€
[17:27:50] <OndraSter> which is jokingly cheap tbh
[17:28:14] <megal0maniac_afk> The arduino due was made so that people programming in arduino could have the same size progams as C programmers with an m328 with similar performance
[17:28:28] <OndraSter> :P
[17:28:34] <OndraSter> and what is the galileo for?
[17:28:44] <OndraSter> 256MB DDR3, intel quark SoC
[17:28:52] <OndraSter> 400MHz x86
[17:29:06] <OndraSter> ethernet, everything
[17:29:07] <megal0maniac_afk> Intel came late to the party
[17:29:21] <megal0maniac_afk> But the price...
[17:29:23] <OndraSter> well who else offers this?
[17:29:23] <bss36504> alright, off to a LAN party. later
[17:29:26] <OndraSter> at this price?
[17:29:28] <OndraSter> cya bss
[17:29:28] <beaky> bye
[17:29:29] <jacekowski> i really have programming x86 in ASM
[17:29:33] <jacekowski> hate*
[17:29:36] <OndraSter> nobody does x86 ASM
[17:29:40] <OndraSter> except the core linux people
[17:29:55] <beaky> there are web servers written in x86 asm
[17:30:03] <OndraSter> there is a whole OS written in ASM
[17:30:05] <OndraSter> including browser.
[17:30:08] <OndraSter> (MenuetOS anyone?)
[17:30:14] <beaky> templeOS?
[17:30:23] <jacekowski> x86 ASM is for sad people with a lot of spare time
[17:30:26] <OndraSter> :)
[17:30:31] <beaky> yes x86 was designed by masochists
[17:30:37] <OndraSter> no
[17:30:41] <jacekowski> ARM asm is a lot better
[17:31:15] <jacekowski> although, i feel sorry for people designing x86 CPUs
[17:31:21] <megal0maniac_afk> Is there any difference aside from the instruction set?
[17:31:24] <specing> OndraSter: AMD did, 10 years ago, see the Geode chip
[17:31:28] <jacekowski> random instruction sizes make pipeline really complicated to start with
[17:31:30] <jacekowski> and it gets worse from there
[17:31:38] <OndraSter> specing, sure
[17:31:43] <OndraSter> but - they did not make these boards
[17:31:54] <OndraSter> Intel now does
[17:32:05] <OndraSter> I own uhm... 4? geode-based thin clients
[17:32:17] <OndraSter> they can in theory boot both WinCE from internal flash or linux from flash or TFTP
[17:32:31] <OndraSter> but they are huge
[17:32:34] <OndraSter> compared to arduino.
[17:42:55] <beaky> http://imgur.com/3T5IqYm I DID IT! I made my smps work!
[17:43:21] <beaky> now to put an attiny85v there
[17:43:36] <jacekowski> at least something works today
[17:43:42] <jacekowski> my timing belt snapped today
[17:44:23] <tzanger> jacekowski: what kind of engine?
[17:44:30] <jacekowski> diesel kind
[17:44:45] <jacekowski> i'm not even going to bother how much damage it caused
[17:44:48] <tzanger> ah not such a big problem
[17:45:02] <jacekowski> it is a big problem
[17:45:09] <tzanger> I had a timing belt snap on a little 1.8T engine (inteference design)
[17:45:11] <tzanger> that was not a fun day
[17:45:17] <jacekowski> high compression engine with almost no clearance at all
[17:45:29] <jacekowski> at 110mph
[17:46:08] <tzanger> jacekowski: ok, yes, that can make for a bad day
[17:46:14] <tzanger> but I bet it didn't destroy your engine
[17:46:22] <tzanger> 110mph? jesus
[17:47:06] <twnqx> :X
[17:47:09] <jacekowski> yeah, i was surprised that engine is still in one piece
[17:47:18] <twnqx> jacekowski: i had that happen to a CHAIN
[17:47:38] <jacekowski> chains ussually give you plenty of warning before doing something nasty like that
[17:47:57] <twnqx> it apparently skipped a notch
[17:48:01] <twnqx> didn't break
[17:48:13] <twnqx> noone ever saw that happen at 50k km
[17:48:32] <jacekowski> failed tensioner or something?
[17:48:38] <twnqx> beats me
[17:48:41] <tzanger> I was pushing my luck... 200kkm on the timing belt
[17:48:42] <twnqx> 2.5k€ repair :(
[17:49:04] <twnqx> apprently the electrics had major intermittent failure due to a half-broken fuse
[17:49:33] <twnqx> wish snapped in a way it owuld get contact but turn off often enough
[17:50:10] <twnqx> mind you, pretty big V6
[17:50:10] <jacekowski> i'm not even going to bother taking my engine apart to see how badly damaged is it, but i've got no compression on any of the cylinders
[17:50:16] <twnqx> ouch
[17:50:23] <jacekowski> so there is big chance that it managed to punch a hole through the cylinders
[17:50:29] <jacekowski> pistons*
[17:50:31] <twnqx> yeah, no valve damage or anything here
[17:50:59] <twnqx> guess i was lucky.
[17:51:19] <jacekowski> unfortunatelly times of non interference engines are gone now
[17:51:46] <jacekowski> all emission and efficiency standards make it complicated
[17:51:54] <twnqx> and annoying
[17:52:05] <jacekowski> high efficiency means a lot higher compression and lower clearances
[17:52:10] <twnqx> they basically force lolunderpowered cars on us :(
[17:52:39] <jacekowski> 15 years ago my father had 1.6 engined car that had 60BHP
[17:52:57] <jacekowski> and when timing belt snapped on that it was 30 minutes job to replace it
[17:53:23] <jacekowski> now you get 140 out of 1.6 with lower fuel consumption
[17:53:39] * twnqx has 195kW
[17:53:47] <twnqx> no idea how much that is in BHP
[17:54:24] <jacekowski> fiat makes 1.4l engine that can do 200BHP/150kW
[17:54:41] <twnqx> yeah, but all of those tried had HORRIBLE turbo lag
[17:54:55] <twnqx> personall i consider e.g. audi's 2.0l turbo undriveable
[17:55:03] <twnqx> no accelration at all
[17:55:26] <jacekowski> diesel engines are great for motorways
[17:55:36] <twnqx> depends what you care about :P
[17:56:01] * twnqx uses cruise control set to 240km/h on highways :P
[17:56:09] <twnqx> legally.
[17:56:15] <jacekowski> 5th or 6th gear all the way
[17:56:17] <jacekowski> and still plenty of torque to overtake when you want it
[17:56:18] <jacekowski> without having to shift down
[17:56:25] <twnqx> doubt it :P
[17:56:41] <twnqx> at least in countries without speed limit :P
[17:57:09] <jacekowski> i live in a country with 70mph speed limit on motorways
[17:57:14] <twnqx> yuck
[17:57:32] <jacekowski> where do you live?
[17:57:36] <twnqx> germany
[17:57:51] <jacekowski> you have speed limits on most motorways there
[17:57:58] <jacekowski> or roadworks
[17:58:02] <twnqx> sadly
[17:58:05] <jacekowski> or some other kind of obstructions
[17:58:14] <twnqx> yeah. other motorists, mainly
[17:58:17] <jacekowski> or accidents
[17:58:52] <twnqx> though on my way to work i have seen 270 on the meter (roughly 260 GPS)
[17:59:13] <jacekowski> i've recently started driving slower to work
[18:00:01] <twnqx> depends on the time of the day for me
[18:00:06] <jacekowski> it's only 20 miles from home, and about half of that on dual carriageway
[18:00:36] <jacekowski> but doing that @65 vs @110 halved my fuel consumption for the whole trip
[18:00:51] <twnqx> but it doubled your drive time accordingly
[18:01:05] <jacekowski> and saving of 2-3 minutes was not really paying for itself
[18:01:39] <jacekowski> half of the trip i have to go on single carriageway
[18:01:44] <jacekowski> behind lorries and other cars
[18:01:50] <jacekowski> so i have to go slow anyways
[18:02:25] <jacekowski> and overtaking few lorries and other cars had no real effect on my arrival time
[18:02:51] <twnqx> i have 40km of pure highway
[18:03:04] <twnqx> and about 8km on other roads
[18:07:20] <twnqx> still looking at the bmw 435 as next car :
[18:07:22] <twnqx> :P
[18:07:35] <twnqx> a little more power than i have today
[18:12:54] <OndraSter> and I am here just sitting and looking outside at my Mitsubishi Colt '97.. :D
[18:13:00] <OndraSter> 1.3 engine, 55BHP
[18:13:59] <jacekowski> i've been driving borrowed renault modus
[18:14:03] <jacekowski> 1.6 diesel
[18:14:07] <jacekowski> 60BHP
[18:14:35] <jacekowski> it took longer to get to 30mph than my car took to get to 60
[18:14:42] <OndraSter> :)
[18:15:13] <OndraSter> I have issues driving my mum's Skoda Felicia - the gas pedal works the opposite way there - in my car it does most of the things in the first half (the most difference)
[18:15:18] <OndraSter> in my mum's the first half is "dead" :D
[18:15:50] <OndraSter> luckily I don't drive it that often, unless something is wrong and I am supposed to check it out
[18:16:14] <jacekowski> and for start i was following simple rule of going through all the bends/turns/corners at half the speed that i used to do in my car
[18:16:14] <jacekowski> and even that was too fast for some
[18:16:42] <jacekowski> in my mum's car it's like mix of your both cars
[18:16:59] <jacekowski> nothing happens in first half and nothing happens in the second half
[18:17:07] <OndraSter> :D
[18:17:35] <OndraSter> the thing is - it is fairly useless for me, I don't drive that often - it is impossible to park in Prague really
[18:17:37] <OndraSter> in the centre
[18:17:41] <OndraSter> and I don't go outside much
[18:17:42] <jacekowski> and shifting down doesn't help because it goes to over 4k rev and has even less power and torque
[18:17:49] <OndraSter> lucky me - no rev meter :D
[18:20:12] <carabia> Skoda. Just another VW. By Hitler.
[18:20:16] <OndraSter> hehe
[18:20:26] <OndraSter> I don't mind Skoda
[18:20:36] <carabia> skoda audi vw seat bugatti, all the same shit
[18:20:44] <OndraSter> I dislike BMWs - but mostly because whenever I see some douche, he is driving BMW
[18:20:52] <Tom_itx> heh
[18:20:56] <OndraSter> (that is a one implication, not both ways!)
[18:21:05] <carabia> As I have to work with cars, I hate skodas with a passion
[18:21:18] <OndraSter> heh
[18:21:21] <jacekowski> carabia: why?
[18:21:21] <jacekowski> it's same shit now
[18:21:38] <jacekowski> just slightly different bodywork
[18:21:39] <carabia> I hate it because of the interior. Cause i do electrical stuff
[18:21:55] <carabia> it's shit, and hard to fit anything anywhere
[18:22:07] <carabia> I hate VW's aswell, so it's no biggie
[18:22:17] <carabia> Superb's quite okay, Octavia's total crap
[18:22:21] <OndraSter> hehe
[18:22:31] <OndraSter> the new octavia looks rather nice
[18:22:45] <OndraSter> designed by the same guy who did Veyron
[18:23:25] <carabia> octavia's the skoda for even more broke-assed people
[18:23:27] <carabia> than the superb
[18:23:31] <OndraSter> haha
[18:23:34] <beaky> they use avrs in vw
[18:23:37] <beaky> i think
[18:23:38] <OndraSter> no
[18:23:50] <beaky> no? who buys all those automotive chips atmel makes? :(
[18:24:02] <OndraSter> in some ECUs they used qualcomm's proprietary 16bit chips, but no idea if it was WV or what
[18:24:11] <carabia> well, who gives two fucks about what they use?
[18:24:15] <OndraSter> and also I know that IDA could disassemble it I think
[18:24:30] <OndraSter> tbh my "dream" is Aston Martin <DBS/DB9/Vanquish if it comes> Volante.
[18:24:38] <OndraSter> but I don't really care for cars
[18:24:45] <carabia> me neither
[18:25:07] <carabia> My dream is to have a hammer, and an expensive car, and have my way with it
[18:25:24] <OndraSter> :))
[18:25:27] <beaky> my dream is a self-driving car
[18:25:27] <tzanger> never had a dream car myself
[18:25:39] <OndraSter> beaky, please, a) don't design it yourself
[18:25:41] <carabia> the bigger the hammer the better, A jackhammer could do just fine also
[18:25:43] <OndraSter> b) never ever get a driver's license
[18:25:55] <carabia> c) try not to smoke your mcu's first
[18:25:59] <OndraSter> c) there are SMPSs in it
[18:26:00] <OndraSter> :D
[18:26:13] <beaky> btw i finaly got my smps to work
[18:26:21] <carabia> your arduino smps?XD
[18:26:22] <OndraSter> how much smoke did get out?
[18:26:30] <beaky> no smoke
[18:26:34] <beaky> http://i.imgur.com/3T5IqYm.png
[18:26:34] <carabia> just flames
[18:27:14] <carabia> get a god damn 1uF cap. reverse polarize it and eat it
[18:27:19] <carabia> i mean 1F
[18:27:33] <carabia> just make sure to give it nuf voltage
[18:27:49] <beaky> there are caps that big?
[18:27:51] <carabia> there's an electronic experiment for you
[18:28:01] <beaky> i imagine a 1f cap would be as big as a 747
[18:28:18] <OndraSter> there are even bigger
[18:28:21] <OndraSter> far bigger
[18:28:22] <carabia> it's not.
[18:28:36] <carabia> a one farad cap is quite big. But i'm sure you're used to swallowing bigger things
[18:29:00] <carabia> just dismantled a roundabouts 1 F cap out of an old german taxi
[18:29:14] <beaky> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR1I_5alt4k
[18:30:25] <carabia> the cap was supposedly used as a keepalive for the taxi meter system for when the car was started
[18:30:57] <carabia> as the rail drops voltage under heavy load from the starter
[18:31:09] <carabia> dunno. fucking germans. Weird ppl
[19:17:23] <beaky> hello
[19:17:36] <beaky> Why do my projects always fail
[19:19:03] <GuShH> beaky: because you suck
[19:19:08] <OndraSter> lol
[19:19:21] <beaky> why do i suck
[19:19:26] <OndraSter> beaky, because you ask something, ignore the constructive reports that it is a terrible idea
[19:20:05] <beaky> what kinds of terible ideas?
[19:20:23] <OndraSter> like the SMPS
[19:20:31] <OndraSter> there are dedicated chips for a reason
[19:20:35] <twnqx> that wasn't a terrible idea
[19:20:48] <twnqx> but looking at the schematic, connecting the avr to 18V was.
[19:20:53] <OndraSter> :D
[19:20:53] <specing> LOL
[19:21:14] <beaky> i connect avr to the inputs of a mosfet driver
[19:21:38] <twnqx> that too...
[19:21:45] <beaky> why is that bad
[19:22:02] <GuShH> maybe if the driver has isolation, not so bad
[19:22:12] <GuShH> (they all seem to buffer at least)
[19:22:13] <twnqx> it's the gate of the driver
[19:22:19] <twnqx> should be ok.
[19:22:42] <beaky> yes drivers are designed to be driven by digital logic ics liek avr
[19:23:12] <twnqx> as long as they are the right type...
[19:23:51] <beaky> i guess ir2104 is right type :D
[19:24:17] <twnqx> <beaky> http://i.imgur.com/3T5IqYm.png at least has the avr at 18v for the power
[19:24:20] <twnqx> which IS deadly
[19:24:50] <beaky> the avr is at 18v? wow didt know
[19:24:54] <twnqx> ...
[19:24:57] <twnqx> look at the battery
[19:25:13] <twnqx> and how it connect's to the AVR V+ and COM
[19:25:22] <GuShH> lawl
[19:25:23] <beaky> oh thats not the avr, thats the driver :D
[19:25:35] <twnqx> oh
[19:25:48] <twnqx> ok then, there are some that will do that
[19:25:54] <GuShH> why the hell do you need a NOT
[19:26:04] <GuShH> use your mcu you silly bastard
[19:26:05] <beaky> simulate the attiny's complementary pwm
[19:26:16] <beaky> ok this time I will draw a schematic that includes an actual attiny85
[19:26:16] <GuShH> simulate? this is the real world
[19:30:06] <twnqx> nothing wrong with simulation, i use spice for most analog stuff :
[19:30:07] <twnqx> :P
[19:31:27] <OndraSter> I need to design (or find a good source for) an antenna for the 13.56MHz RFID :P
[19:31:31] <OndraSter> there are some from NXP
[19:31:35] <OndraSter> but it is all so much meth
[19:31:36] <OndraSter> math
[19:31:42] <twnqx> how about antenova?
[19:31:45] <OndraSter> they do have excel doc that counts it
[19:31:47] <twnqx> or just a pcb stipline
[19:31:57] <OndraSter> yes, it will be a PCB antenna
[19:32:18] <OndraSter> I could use the reference design... but they do not have anywhere written how big it actually is
[19:32:26] <OndraSter> I will just copy the chinese one that I have ordered :P
[19:32:38] <twnqx> ask joggl when he's around
[19:32:45] <twnqx> he did some of those designs :P
[19:33:44] <OndraSter> sure, thanks
[19:58:54] <kdehl_> There's something that I don't understand with the VGA signal. How does the monitor know what signal you are generating? Does it have an internal clock that it compares the VSYNC and HSYNC signals with?
[20:00:00] <kdehl> That seems somewhat unstable to me if the clock you're using in the signal generator isn't very exact. Which it doesn't seem to have to be. At least not within a percent or so.
[20:01:49] <Casper> kdehl: yup
[20:02:12] <Casper> the old CRT had a timer that was getting synchronised by the VSync and HSync signal
[20:02:34] <Casper> and this is also why they tend to break if you excede the max resolution
[20:03:06] <Casper> later on, they added a microcontroller to make the frequency more stable and to also protect the circuit in case of an invalid frequency
[20:05:47] <kdehl> Casper: I see.
[20:06:04] <kdehl> Well, I guess I do understand... somewhat.
[20:06:14] <kdehl> I'd like to see a VGA decoder.
[20:06:40] <kdehl> Maybe that'd make it clearer to me.
[20:07:49] <Casper> probably only 2 PLL...
[20:08:22] <Casper> now... with lcd monitors, it's all in digital domain
[20:08:45] <kdehl> Yeah.
[20:08:55] <kdehl> So I guess they have really fast ADCs?
[20:09:24] <kdehl> I had never heard of PLLs before. Wikipedia ftw.
[20:11:40] <Casper> yeah, now they detect the sync frequency, then sample the signals at the apropriate time
[20:12:29] <Casper> bbs, gonna check why my card reader ain'T working (disconnected power?)
[20:23:56] <Casper> wow!
[20:24:00] <Casper> a flawless reboot!
[20:24:12] <Casper> must be the first time it actually happened !
[20:27:42] <kdehl> Heh. Nice.
[20:27:56] <kdehl> But, by knowing the hsync and vsync frequencies, you can always deduce the resolution?
[20:28:47] <Casper> yup
[20:29:04] <kdehl> Ah.
[20:29:07] <kdehl> Alright.
[20:38:11] <bsdfox> that's not true for an unknown refresh rate though, right?
[20:38:25] <kdehl> At least the vertical resolution. The way I understand it, the horizontal resolution is more or less infinite, at least on a CRT display, right?
[20:42:18] <Casper> bsdfox: there is some assumption for the resolutions...
[20:42:31] <Casper> in analog, the horisontal resolution didn't mattered
[20:42:46] <Casper> but in digital world... there is a finite one...
[20:45:31] <kdehl> Yeah, absolutely. But say that I use a very fast µC, and hsync and vsync frequencies that pretends to be a 320x200 resolution, but actually generate 640 horizontal pixels, that would work on an old CRT?
[20:46:58] <Casper> yes
[20:47:00] <kdehl> (I couldn't find an official 640x200 VGA resolution mentioned anywhere, so I just guess it'd still be interpreted by the monitor as 320x200.)
[20:47:02] <Casper> most probably
[20:47:07] <kdehl> Interesting.
[20:47:26] <Casper> the electron gun was actually connected straight to the RGB signal often...
[20:47:33] <kdehl> I guess there couldn't be a 640x200 resolution, because the hsync and vsync timings would be the same.
[20:47:37] <Casper> with only a blanking circuit in betweeen
[20:47:37] <kdehl> Cool.
[20:47:41] <kdehl> Yeah.
[20:47:42] <kdehl> Heh.
[20:47:53] <kdehl> *same as 320x200.
[20:47:55] <Casper> so you may be able to even output 1600x240
[20:48:06] <kdehl> Yeah.
[20:48:07] <kdehl> Heh.
[20:48:43] <kdehl> But only on an old analog CRT, I suppose?
[20:52:31] <Casper> yup
[20:53:02] <Casper> maybe it will still work on "digital" analog one
[20:53:04] <Casper> however
[20:53:11] <Casper> remember that the beam will also be big
[20:53:21] <Casper> so you don't get true resolution...
[20:53:30] <kdehl> The beam?
[20:53:44] <kdehl> The electron beam is big?
[20:56:42] <kdehl> But hm. So a modern flat VGA display use really fast ADCs. I mean, they need to be able to do ADC conversions at like 100 MHz or more... which compares to AVR's 13 µs (~76kHz) at best!
[20:58:01] <Jordan_U> I'm looking for a library that will allow my atmel board to act as a USB host to recieve input from a USB keyboard. In my searches I keep finding documentation on how to make an atmel board act as a USB keyboard, but that is not what I want. Any pointers on where to start? I'm fairly new to Atmel and working with USB in general.
[20:58:47] <kdehl> There are controllers that have USB host support, I think that's what you want to look for.
[20:59:56] <kdehl> Or if you have a controller without hardware support:
[20:59:58] <kdehl> http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/hidkeys.html
[21:00:33] <kdehl> That being said, I've never tried this kind of stuff, maybe someone else will want to fill in on this.
[21:01:18] <Jordan_U> kdehl: That link appears to be another example of making a board act as a keyboard, rather than connecting a USB keyboard to the board.
[21:01:20] <kdehl> Oh, sorry, that link was just what you said you weren't looking for. Never mind.
[21:01:27] <kdehl> Yeah, sorry.
[21:01:27] <Jordan_U> :)
[21:01:43] <Jordan_U> No problem.
[21:02:19] <kdehl> www.atmel.com/Images/doc8486.pdf
[21:04:01] <kdehl> Man, I've always assumed that when a µC has USB support, it was _host_ support.
[21:05:35] <kdehl> Well, vusb seems to have host support, at least. But maybe you want it done in hardware.
[21:11:00] <kdehl> Gah. It's 3 am. Sleep time.
[21:11:22] <kdehl> Casper: Anyway, thanks for the help! It's much clearer now.
[21:12:15] <Amadiro> kdehl, I think host support is pretty rare on MCUs
[21:50:26] <malcom2073> Some have OTG, which can operate in host mode
[21:50:34] <malcom2073> but, anything you plug into it, typically you'll have to write the host driver for
[22:14:21] <tzanger> malcom2073: is there an oss or reasonably priced OTG stack for AVR?
[22:14:54] <tzanger> Amadiro: not really, no... the real bitch is the driver support for things like bulk storage which is probably what most use cases want
[22:15:12] <tzanger> lots of commercial OSes for micros have them but they're not cheap
[22:15:18] <malcom2073> Not that I know of
[22:15:24] <Amadiro> I've seen it in very few MCUs thus far
[22:15:25] <tzanger> I think MQX wants something like $4k
[22:15:28] <Amadiro> mostly only in larger SoCs