#avr | Logs for 2013-10-29

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[03:10:51] <megal0maniac_afk> Haha! From AVR-Eclipse website: "debugWire: a proprietary interface similar to JTAG, but using only one wire (the reset line)."
[03:11:05] <megal0maniac_afk> How in the world is it similar to JTAG?
[03:14:31] <theBear> it IS an interface :-)
[03:15:24] <N2TOH> debug interfaces are a farce! your code works, or it fails!!!!
[03:17:01] <theBear> yeah, but it can fail in so very many ways :)
[03:39:29] <megal0maniac_afk> And debugging tells you where
[03:39:46] <megal0maniac_afk> Working, step, working, step, BROKEN!
[08:46:48] <bss36504> ISP is the worst. >:(
[08:48:35] <bss36504> My chip is unresponsive, even though it is clocking at 1MHz and the ISP clock is 2.152Khz. Just will not enter programming mode.
[08:49:10] <bss36504> ISP always gives me issues. It works great for a while, then just inexplicably breaks. I've been going fine all along, then one time it just decided to stop working.
[08:50:43] <bsdfox> ISP should be reliable if your programmer works fine
[08:50:56] <bsdfox> if you're using parport with 12" wires you'll have problems
[08:51:27] <bsdfox> likely you've got the reset or isp disabled as it sounds like you were messing with fuses
[08:51:45] <bss36504> AVRISPMkII with ~4" wires.
[08:52:13] <bss36504> It *was* working great, now it just doesnt. Guess I'll try my JTAGICE3
[08:52:32] <bss36504> Nope, wasn't messing with fuses either, just programming.
[08:52:55] <bsdfox> there's nothing inherently wrong with ISP though
[08:53:09] <bss36504> And I dont generally mess things up when I play with fuses (I avoid disabling SPIEN :P)
[08:53:28] <bss36504> Yeah, it's just usually more frustrating than JTAG
[08:53:34] <bss36504> at least for me.
[08:53:48] <bsdfox> not being able to debug is frustrating :)
[08:56:37] <bss36504> That as well. Anyway, I know my chip is clocking since I set the CLKOUT fuse and I'm getting a nice clean 1MHz clock, VCC is 3.3 volts. I'd rather not have to solder a new chip on...
[09:11:54] <megal0maniac_afk> bss36504: YOUR ISP is the worst. Mine is great :)
[09:12:18] <bss36504> haha thank you for the support megal0maniac_afk :P
[09:12:32] <bss36504> Nah, I just put a new chip on the board, working again.
[09:12:45] <megal0maniac_afk> That's odd
[09:14:56] <bss36504> indeed it is. But I'm used to it at this point.
[09:17:06] <megal0maniac_afk> You're doing it wrong :)
[09:30:05] <bss36504> gee, thanks haha
[10:08:43] <beaky> hello
[10:08:48] <beaky> what is the fastest avr
[10:08:53] <beaky> i want to do digital signal processing
[10:14:02] <megal0maniac_afk> Get an xmega
[10:14:43] <megal0maniac_afk> Nice fast clock speed (32mhz) with lots of peripherals, without being too different from regular mega
[10:15:17] <beaky> ah
[10:15:47] <beaky> why not avr32 or atmel sam instead of xmega
[10:16:01] <bsdfox> neither of those are avr architecture
[10:16:04] <beaky> ah
[10:16:14] <megal0maniac_afk> avr32 isn't far off
[10:16:24] <megal0maniac_afk> That was my next suggestion
[10:16:34] <bsdfox> avr32 is very different
[10:16:53] <megal0maniac_afk> But it's still technically avr
[10:17:01] <megal0maniac_afk> As opposed to arm
[10:17:15] <megal0maniac_afk> It just isn't avr8
[10:17:23] <RikusW> The block diagram looks a lot like ARM
[10:17:36] <beaky> atmel sam is just atmel's trademark for arm?
[10:17:44] <beaky> what does sam stand for?
[10:18:09] <RikusW> small arm microcontroller ? ;)
[10:18:56] <megal0maniac_afk> RikusW: Have you played with aery?
[10:18:59] <megal0maniac_afk> Or xboard?
[10:20:15] <beaky> I love atmel because their chips are small but can do anything. e.g. attiny
[10:21:04] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: You need to do one thing at a time ;) Get one project working before jumping into another one. Otherwise you'll never get anything done
[10:22:28] <beaky> okay i will get my tiny led blinker to work
[10:22:47] <beaky> i can blink 6 leds at a time!
[10:22:59] <beaky> at variable frequencies thanks to the 6 pwm chanels
[10:25:54] <bsdfox> stop trolling
[10:26:31] <beaky> im quite new to electronics
[10:28:15] <megal0maniac_afk> 17:03 < megal0maniac_afk> RikusW: Have you played with aery?
[10:28:16] <megal0maniac_afk> 17:03 < megal0maniac_afk> Or xboard?
[10:30:05] <beaky> my attiny85v needs Vcc=5V to operate at 10Mhz, but the plain ATtiny85 can do 20Mhz at that voltage. why can't the v variant do that?
[10:30:21] <beaky> Vcc ~= 3V*
[10:30:26] * beaky double checks datasheet
[10:38:44] <beaky> maybe i can overclock the tiny85v
[10:38:53] <beaky> or will that set it on fire
[10:43:01] <RikusW1> megal0maniac_afk: not yet...
[10:43:42] <RikusW1> megal0maniac_afk: I was in XP in vbox...
[10:58:23] <megal0maniac_afk> HOLY CRAP the eevblog guy's voice is intolerable
[10:58:38] <megal0maniac_afk> Just when you think it can't get any higher
[10:58:52] <theBear> not to mention his attitude to things like blowing up expensive equipment or accidentally smoking whatever he is working on
[11:00:03] <beaky> I like his teardown videos
[11:00:51] <megal0maniac_afk> "It doesn't bloody matter. Why? Because... it really doesn't."
[11:01:07] <megal0maniac_afk> His 1man rants remind me of "gingers have souls"
[11:01:20] <OndraSter> I watch some of his teardowns - not the $1k+ scopes
[11:01:28] <OndraSter> it is all just one big ass FPGA/ASIC and few passives aroudn it
[11:01:30] <OndraSter> around*
[11:01:34] <beaky> yeah he does loves to ramble for half an hour ^^
[11:01:44] <OndraSter> I much prefer mike's teardowns
[11:01:46] <OndraSter> no shitting around
[11:01:46] <beaky> and smash $300 multimeters
[11:02:13] <beaky> i learned how to solder from his tutorials
[11:02:18] <beaky> and how to choose equipment
[11:03:00] <beaky> I wish he did more videos on his personal projects maybe i might learn good electronics design
[11:03:55] <theBear> but when you solder parts fall out of the pcb !
[11:04:33] <beaky> my bad i didn't solder it right
[11:04:39] <beaky> shouldn't have used solder as mechanical suport :D
[11:31:44] <theBear> bsdfox, you know i've ALMOST been convinced that there is no trolling involved... but like i say to them, time will tell
[11:33:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Any Linux gurus have a minute to spare?
[11:34:04] <theBear> maybe if yer real quick, if i could find the hd enclosure i'm looking for i'd already be gone :)
[11:34:51] <megal0maniac_afk> theBear: Machine (dockstar) after a while suddenly can't resolve anything. Ping returns "bad address" unless I explicitly use the IP and Samba stops working
[11:34:52] <OndraSter> fixing cars not working in a car, if changing fuses and relays fails: bash it with your fist until it works
[11:35:09] <OndraSter> fixing lights*
[11:35:21] <megal0maniac_afk> Reboot fixes it. And then it happens again in a few hours.
[11:35:33] <megal0maniac_afk> OndraSter: A hammer is a small adjustment tool, my boss says :)
[11:35:44] <OndraSter> haha
[11:36:49] <theBear> hmmm..... bad address eh
[11:36:52] <megal0maniac_afk> So it's obviously some DNS craziness, but why? And how is samba involved?
[11:37:14] <theBear> samba does very poorly without dns, depending on resolve order less or more poorly
[11:37:14] <megal0maniac_afk> theBear: Bad address is just wget's way of saying "can't resolve"
[11:37:54] <megal0maniac_afk> Okay, then the big question is why would my dns be disappearing, without intervention from my side?
[11:37:58] <theBear> hmmm, umm, cat /etc/resolv.conf when it's broken, i'm guessing you'll see it blanked.... i wonder, does it take roughly your dhcp timeout amount of time to break ?
[11:39:18] <theBear> woah, did you see what i said ?
[11:39:42] <megal0maniac_afk> I did. Accidentally started another instance of screen instead of reattaching :/
[11:39:46] <theBear> hehe
[11:40:09] <megal0maniac_afk> Currently (working) it just contains "search lan \ nameserver 127.0.0.1"
[11:40:15] <megal0maniac_afk> over two lines, obviously
[11:40:21] <theBear> ooooh, hmmmmm
[11:40:34] <megal0maniac_afk> Using dnsmasq for dns. It's openwrt
[11:40:37] <theBear> is it running as a firewall/nat-router dealey for your lan ? or running dnsmasw
[11:40:45] <megal0maniac_afk> But I'll check it when it breaks
[11:40:56] <megal0maniac_afk> Did get some funny error about swap last time...
[11:41:00] <theBear> ahh k... hmmm.. i assume it's got a static network setup then ?
[11:41:29] <megal0maniac_afk> It's all dhcp controlled
[11:41:38] <theBear> dnsmasq is generally VERY stable itself, i'd be surprised if it was dying unless something weird like running out of ram/swap was killing stuff
[11:41:51] <bsdfox> megal0maniac_afk, I bet you're running out of ram
[11:41:53] <theBear> check the dmesg after it breaks too, look for oom or other problems
[11:42:07] <bsdfox> or your overlay is filling up
[11:42:32] <bsdfox> if it's the overlay compile zram support isn't your build
[11:42:50] <theBear> and i suppose if the dns config (resolv.conf) IS getting reset by a crappy or confused dhcp client, you could 'cheat' by making resolv.conf r/o
[11:42:56] <megal0maniac_afk> bsdfox: / has 2.1gb free. I'm not using overlay
[11:43:00] <theBear> but now to the workshop :) you know i'll be back
[11:43:19] <bsdfox> megal0maniac_afk, oh I figured it was some embedded device
[11:43:32] <megal0maniac_afk> Alright, thanks :) I'll check that file again when it goes mad
[11:43:57] <bsdfox> also try unloading/reloading network driver next time
[11:43:59] <megal0maniac_afk> bsdfox: Sort of. Seagate Dockstar. uBoot is configured to boot off an external hdd, so everything is on there to save the flash :)
[11:44:11] <theBear> it's a drive-enclosure on steroids
[11:44:19] <theBear> actually kinda cool if you need something like that
[11:44:24] <megal0maniac_afk> bsdfox: /etc/init.d/network reload ?
[11:44:25] <bsdfox> neat
[11:44:45] <bsdfox> megal0maniac_afk, rmmod / insmod
[11:44:57] <bsdfox> do you know what nic is in there?
[11:45:06] <megal0maniac_afk> Ah, the driver itself. Okay. I feel like that might kill my ssh session :P
[11:45:35] <megal0maniac_afk> One sec
[11:46:22] <theBear> reload IF implemented shoudl just re-read configs and update as needed while running, you generally want restart, but it would in the case of network kill the network interface for a short time, or at least wipe and refresh/set any ips
[11:46:26] <megal0maniac_afk> Ah, it's the built in one. Makes sense, since there's only 1. mv643xx_eth_port
[11:49:12] <bsdfox> megal0maniac_afk, either open a screen session or write a bash script to unload/load the module
[11:49:41] <bsdfox> you might need to unload more too (just see if it errors with module in use)
[11:50:22] <megal0maniac_afk> I suspect it's an issue with swap/ram. It isn't running out, but something to do with that
[11:51:22] <megal0maniac_afk> dmesg says minidlna is shouting (repeatedly) about page allocation failures :/
[11:52:18] <megal0maniac_afk> Anyway, I'll leave it for now until it has another tantrum. Then I can dig :) Thanks for the pointers
[11:52:24] <bsdfox> maybe some flash is dying?
[11:52:47] <megal0maniac_afk> flash=ram or flash=hdd?
[11:52:48] <bsdfox> need to be careful not to log or write often to that stuff
[11:53:00] <bsdfox> I'm sure the chip has some embedded flash
[11:53:04] <bsdfox> uboot lives somewhere
[11:53:09] <megal0maniac_afk> It does, but it isn't mounted
[11:53:16] <bsdfox> I guess if it's all offloaded to the hd that wouldn't be hte problem
[11:54:12] <megal0maniac_afk> wtf?...
[11:54:26] <megal0maniac_afk> bsdfox: Can we take this off channel? I'm way off topic :P
[11:55:18] <megal0maniac_afk> Would you mind, that is?
[11:55:19] <bsdfox> I don't have any other ideas. hit me up when it breaks next time :)
[12:22:34] <megal0maniac_afk> theBear: Stupid dlna server was filling up /tmp
[12:43:14] <beaky> http://imgur.com/sfcbmu5 how do i improve my design
[12:45:53] <bss36504> beaky: What does it do?
[12:46:21] <bss36504> Or rather, what is it supposed to do
[12:46:23] <bss36504> ?
[12:48:51] <bss36504> beaky: How did you go about choosing your component values?
[12:49:31] <beaky> it supposed to supply usb power from a pv panel
[12:49:54] <beaky> and i chose components arbitrarily :(
[12:50:18] <bss36504> alright. Well dont choose arbitrarily. Switching converters are more complex than that.
[12:50:36] <beaky> right
[12:50:38] <bss36504> hang on a second...
[12:50:47] <bss36504> I'll find some good stuff for you.
[12:53:56] <bss36504> beaky: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfggnw5etwwbh3t/Buck%20Converter%20Example.pdf
[12:57:02] <beaky> attiny has low switching freuqnecy
[12:57:11] <beaky> if i use full resolution of pwm
[12:57:22] <bss36504> Also, you;ll need to consider if your battery has any special charging requirements. Eg. a multi-cell LiPo will require some sort of cell balancing circuitry. I'm almost certain you cant just throw any kind of rechargeable battery across two terminals and use it like a big capacitor.
[12:57:30] <beaky> right
[12:57:46] <beaky> how will i know the right voltage to buck down to in order to charge the battery
[12:57:53] <beaky> and when to 'disconnect' the battery
[12:57:56] <bss36504> You'll have to change the numbers in that example to suit your application
[12:58:24] <bss36504> There are chips that are designed to act as charge controllers. Check the selection at TI and Maxim.
[12:59:09] <beaky> yeah there are amzing chips that are 3 termianls where you just add an inductor
[13:00:01] <bss36504> Well no, thats a buck controller, not a charge controller. Honestly though, it might be better to use one of those anyway. That example I sent was just a guide on how you *could* make a discrete buck converter, if you so desired.
[13:00:22] <bss36504> TI even makes fully encapsulated buck converters that have the inductor built in.
[13:01:26] <beaky> wow
[13:03:29] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser: What is the target/primary application of these SAM D20s? They seem very avr-ish performance wise. Aside from being 32bit.
[13:03:55] <abcminiuser> Basically, "replacement" for all TINY/MEGA/XMEGA
[13:04:06] <abcminiuser> Not replacement as in the others won't be sold/updated
[13:04:20] <abcminiuser> But if you want ARM and you use AVR now, SAM D20
[13:05:29] <bss36504> abcminiuser: so you're saying that maybe Atmel is divesting from their 8-bit AVR line?
[13:05:31] <megal0maniac_afk> Ah, cool. They're pretty similar to xmega
[13:06:09] <bss36504> wait, I think I just misinterpreted your second sentence.
[13:06:15] <bss36504> nevermind :)
[13:07:44] <abcminiuser> Indeed, not saying anything
[13:07:57] * megal0maniac_afk wonders about AVR32
[13:07:59] <abcminiuser> Other than we'd rather you bough us still if you want Cortex M0 :P
[13:08:54] <bss36504> Oh I like Atmel an awful lot, so no worries there. Freescale's toolchain is garbage, haven't played too much with TI, no experiance with other brands so in terms of my personal productivity, Atmel is it.
[13:12:12] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser: Any idea of eta on stock for D20 samples? :P
[13:12:29] <abcminiuser> Not a hard date, but soon
[13:12:32] <abcminiuser> New silicon
[13:13:03] <megal0maniac_afk> Goodie. Hopefully by the end of November. Holidays :D
[13:18:58] <bss36504> No USB on the D20's though :(
[13:22:04] <OndraSter> no USB?!
[13:22:13] <OndraSter> but on which peripheral am I going to rip my hair out?
[13:22:36] <OndraSter> (ok, now that I know how USB works, it would take loads less time to make USB stack for D20)
[13:23:34] <OndraSter> but.. why no usb, abcminiuser ?
[13:24:01] <abcminiuser> Can't say, not my place
[13:24:04] <abcminiuser> I just code for them
[13:24:25] <OndraSter> sure
[13:24:28] <OndraSter> but... why D:
[13:28:14] <megal0maniac_afk> Realistically, most things that require microcontrollers don't require USB
[13:28:29] <OndraSter> but xmega...
[13:28:35] <OndraSter> sure
[13:28:49] <beaky> wow how do i learn how to program
[13:29:00] <megal0maniac_afk> Especially those that utilise things like event systems and the like. Not to say that it wouldn't be used, but, yeah.
[13:29:09] <megal0maniac_afk> beaky: Practise
[13:29:21] <beaky> ah
[13:29:30] <beaky> how do i learn electornics design
[13:29:33] <OndraSter> same
[13:29:59] <bss36504> beaky: Take classes?
[13:31:49] <theBear> lol @ arbitrary values
[13:33:06] <bsdfox> OndraSter, I think I read that arm doesn't have a usb peripheral for the m0. nxp integrated their own but I think they're the only ones with an m0 with usb
[13:34:56] <theBear> i coulda sworn the ti page i was looking at yesterday listed usb
[13:35:03] <theBear> oh, m4, woops
[13:35:42] <bsdfox> st is supposed to release the stm32f052 with usb
[13:35:52] <bsdfox> but I heard it was slated for Q4 2012..
[13:40:24] <theBear> hmm, and err, this year ISN'T 2012 right ?
[13:40:48] <theBear> when you don't work, you don't often write the date either
[13:48:59] <v0kehc> beaky: ffs, google bro. google. the answer is *ALWAYS* google
[13:51:05] <hrpn> startpage.com
[13:52:33] <v0kehc> hrpn: the *whole* internet, including the CA's
[13:52:38] <v0kehc> dont sites like this just seem silly?
[13:56:03] <hrpn> No, they don't.
[14:09:20] <v0kehc> hrpn: well, it gets decrypted and analyzed all the same. but to each his own.
[14:21:13] <abcminiuser> Who wants to quickly test a new DataSizeViewer update before I upload it?
[14:21:26] <abcminiuser> Seems to work, just want a "did not catch fire" tick of appoval
[14:22:05] <N1njaneer> What's it do?
[14:22:12] <Roklobsta|2> you can'r predict everything. besides, having an AVR catch fire due to a LUFA bug would be interesting.
[14:22:14] <N1njaneer> Besides view data sizes :)
[14:22:23] <MannImMond> is in on fourwalledcubicle?
[14:22:27] <megal0maniac_afk> Mmememee
[14:22:31] <abcminiuser> Lemme upload it
[14:22:40] <N1njaneer> Roklobsta|2: USB PYRO protocol
[14:22:42] <abcminiuser> Just has additional filter options
[14:22:56] <abcminiuser> So you can hide text/data altogether, or show symbols if they match a regex
[14:24:04] <abcminiuser> http://fourwalledcubicle.com/files/vsix/DataSizeViewer.vsix
[14:24:49] <megal0maniac_afk> Should I nuke the existing version?
[14:25:33] <N1njaneer> OH MY GOD MY COMPUTER IS ON FIRE
[14:25:41] <N1njaneer> Sorry Dean, it combusted.
[14:25:44] <beaky> lol
[14:25:56] <abcminiuser> And that's why I test on other's machines...
[14:25:57] <N1njaneer> Shit, now it's burning up the ASF
[14:26:03] <N1njaneer> Oh the humanity!!!
[14:26:04] <beaky> whats asf
[14:26:12] <abcminiuser> FYI regex is off by default, turn on via the settings
[14:26:16] <bss36504> Atmel Software Framework
[14:26:20] <beaky> ah
[14:26:28] <beaky> i love atmel
[14:26:32] <N1njaneer> abcminiuser: Okay, installed. How to test?
[14:26:42] <megal0maniac_afk> Yeah I can't find it
[14:26:44] <beaky> they are the number 1 microcontrolre company
[14:26:46] <bss36504> I love lamp
[14:27:17] <beaky> lamp?
[14:27:31] <beaky> linux atmel microcontroller program?
[14:27:34] <bss36504> It's a quote from a movie.
[14:27:45] <beaky> ah
[14:28:00] <MannImMond> Fun fact regarding ASF: if you are driving a mercedes A/CLA you are probably "using" the ASF
[14:28:13] <beaky> why
[14:28:15] <N1njaneer> bss36504: I love leg lamp
[14:28:41] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser: Seems to work
[14:28:46] <abcminiuser> Open project
[14:28:51] <abcminiuser> View->ELF Symbol Sizes
[14:28:52] <N1njaneer> Ahh crap I'm late again. Gotta run out the door momentarily.
[14:29:04] <bss36504> N1njaneer: lol. You know the Anchorman scene though, right? I think of it whenever beaky says he loves something.
[14:29:24] <N1njaneer> abc: Viewing ELF Symbol Sizes, sir
[14:29:39] <N1njaneer> The dialog box is on fire.
[14:29:59] <megal0maniac_afk> Anyone remember desktop destroyer?
[14:30:08] <bss36504> ooh fun times indeed
[14:30:42] <N1njaneer> abc: Anything else to look at? Sems to not have asploded here.
[14:31:05] <abcminiuser> If building a project shows the symbols correctly
[14:31:12] <bss36504> ASFloded*
[14:31:14] <abcminiuser> And ticking/unticking the filter boxes works
[14:31:21] <abcminiuser> And filtering via text works, I'll upload it
[14:32:05] <megal0maniac_afk> filtering by text is case sensitive
[14:32:24] <megal0maniac_afk> Can't say I'm a fan of that, but that doesn't mean it's wrong
[14:32:25] <MannImMond> abcminiuser: Btw. if you still look for extensions. I'd like to have one which adds the ability to create a shortcut to open the parent directory of the current file in a shell/in the explorer
[14:32:44] <N1njaneer> abc: Looks good to me!
[14:32:45] <carabia> i love microcontrololer
[14:32:56] <megal0maniac_afk> Double clicking goes to the right place
[14:33:18] <bss36504> I'd like one that would let me import an entire file structure into a project, rather than creating the folders manually and adding the files in groups.
[14:33:28] <megal0maniac_afk> Colours are good and... yeah. Looks good
[14:34:05] * N1njaneer gives abcminiuser ALL THE COOKIES
[14:34:28] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser: btw, where would you #define the board being used in AS? Obviously the makefile falls away. Just in the main .c file?
[14:36:07] <N1njaneer> mega: If you want the symbols global, easiest to pass them to the compiler directly. If using Atmel Studio it's in Toolchain->AVR/GNU C Compiler -> Symbols
[14:36:30] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac_afk, define it for what?
[14:36:31] <N1njAway> Gymtime - bbl!
[14:36:32] <megal0maniac_afk> Whoops. I mean specific to LUFA. Forgot to mention that :)
[14:36:36] <abcminiuser> Ah
[14:36:44] <abcminiuser> It's in the project toolchain definitions
[14:36:49] <abcminiuser> Added automatically via the ASF XML
[14:38:40] <megal0maniac_afk> Aha. I see 8mhz is also the default. Is that the correct place to change it?
[14:38:51] <MannImMond> uhm, are regexes supposed to be off by default?
[14:39:56] <megal0maniac_afk> MannImMond: Yeah
[14:40:18] <megal0maniac_afk> Ooooh... Only USBKEY exists under drivers
[14:40:57] <megal0maniac_afk> So obviously changing it in symbols is wrong
[14:41:36] <megal0maniac_afk> HALP
[14:42:39] <abcminiuser> Change device first
[14:42:46] <megal0maniac_afk> Did that
[14:43:07] <abcminiuser> MannImMond, yes, people don't know regexes
[14:43:17] <megal0maniac_afk> But under Drivers\AVR8 there only exists the global driver files, and USBKEY folder
[14:43:27] <abcminiuser> Go to the ASF Wizard
[14:43:39] <abcminiuser> You can select the board there
[14:44:02] <beaky> what are dead time generators for
[14:45:28] <beaky> dead time sounds so macabre
[14:49:23] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser: Is it possible to add a board to the list manually?
[14:49:46] <abcminiuser> Only if you edit the LUFA files and regenerate the VSIX :P
[14:49:55] <megal0maniac_afk> Aw
[14:50:27] <megal0maniac_afk> It appeared after I manually changed it, but then it complained about BOARD already being defined or something like that
[14:52:46] * megal0maniac_afk tries to find a way to use the USER board to do the same thing
[14:58:44] <megal0maniac_afk> Cool. It works. HOWEVER...
[14:59:24] <megal0maniac_afk> abcminiuser: In the global LEDs.h, the #else points to "Board/LEDs.h"
[14:59:41] <megal0maniac_afk> But the CWD is already Board
[14:59:55] <megal0maniac_afk> So it points to Board\Board\LEDs.h
[15:00:25] <abcminiuser> You need to supply your own board driver if the current one is missing it
[15:01:11] <megal0maniac_afk> I did, and putting it in Board\Board\ didn't work. So I just changed the #else to look in AVR8\USER\
[15:01:57] <megal0maniac_afk> The error was "../../../../Common/Common.h: No such file or directory"
[15:02:44] <megal0maniac_afk> So I think that if anything, the "Board/" in the #else statement is unnecessary, as you go one directory too deep and break the relative path
[15:03:49] <megal0maniac_afk> Also, the #else catches it because there's no (BOARD == BOARD_USER), which is fine, but not obvious
[15:12:32] <megal0maniac_afk> Just my 2cents
[16:03:59] <megal0maniac_afk> I now know why uint8_t ends with _t :)
[16:04:17] <megal0maniac_afk> Under C convention (such as in the C standard library or POSIX), types declared with typedef end with '_t' (e.g., size_t, time_t).
[16:04:58] <inkjetunito> but why does a block begin with {?
[16:06:57] <megal0maniac_afk> Because it does
[16:08:02] <inkjetunito> speaking of C*, avr-gcc 4.8 seems to be out \o/
[16:12:38] <ambro718> inkjetunito: what do you mean? gcc 4.8 has been out for some time, for anyone brave enough to compile it
[16:13:33] <inkjetunito> ambro718: i didn't notice it before 4.8.2 :)
[16:18:47] <OndraSter> not everybody's compiling their gcc
[16:26:49] <hetii> Hi :)
[16:29:39] <carabia> hello
[16:29:43] <hetii> I try fix driver for my new touchscreen in phone, as i notice i need plug in boot process the old chip(S2100A) to be able to use new one (BF6931A1).
[16:30:01] <hetii> General i see lot of errors like qup_i2c qup_i2c.1: QUP: I2C status flags :0x1121c4, irq:43
[16:30:53] <hetii> And to fix them i need replug BF6931A1, and then wake up from suspend mode.
[16:31:27] <hetii> so maybe some of you had idea how can i debug why the new chip is not initialized during boot process?
[16:49:08] <carabia> Has anyone tried those digital wellers?
[16:50:02] <carabia> WHS ones? Are they any good? Probably getting something cheaper since... Old weller's soon to die. Some mishaps, like driving a car over it
[16:58:58] <carabia> might just get another 81 :P
[16:59:37] <carabia> that WHS M looks really sexy with its tiny tips though
[17:32:03] <kdehl> Hm. I was thinking. I read on hackaday some guy made a small computer with the help of a 6502 CPU, a dual-port RAM chip and a microcontroller to generate a VGA signal.
[17:32:23] <kdehl> Looked awesomely simple, so I just ordered some chips to try it out myself.
[17:33:15] <kdehl> But, question is, what stops me from using a more modern CPU? I had a quick look at the pinout of the 80286 CPU, and it's very similar to the 6502, just more pins for the address and data, and it uses 5 Volt.
[17:34:12] <kdehl> Seems workable too. But then what, what about the latest mega yeah-athlon-whatever-they're-called-nowadays. What will make it difficult to use those, except for the billion of pins that you need to connect.
[17:34:40] <kdehl> They don't use 5 V, but that could be transformed. I guess. Or am I missing something?
[17:35:20] <Essobi> building a support circuit gets way more complicated once you get into that arena I'd imagine.
[17:36:04] <kdehl> Yeah, but what exactly?
[17:37:01] <Essobi> so.. a bios.. a northbrige, a southbridge and other things the internal firmware expects I'd imagine.
[17:38:21] <Fornaxian> modern CPU requires lots of support
[17:38:48] <kdehl> Essobi: But do you need all that just to get something up and running?
[17:38:50] <Fornaxian> as for an 80286, I think an atmega1284p is faster.
[17:38:54] <kdehl> Fornaxian: Like what?
[17:39:03] <kdehl> Haha. YEah, probably. But way cuter.
[17:39:07] <Fornaxian> kdehl, well, what memory will you use?
[17:39:08] <Fornaxian> dram?
[17:39:32] <kdehl> Fornaxian: No idea. I can't just use a dual-port ram like he did with the 6502?
[17:39:42] <Fornaxian> a pentium chip or newer,,and even older ones, don't have a memory manager built in.
[17:39:46] <kdehl> I haven't coded 286 for like 20 years. Heh.
[17:39:51] <kdehl> Oh.
[17:39:54] <kdehl> Man.
[17:39:57] <OndraSter_> kdehl, bus
[17:40:00] <kdehl> Okay. So let's not go that far, then.
[17:40:01] <OndraSter_> bus is the culprit
[17:40:05] <Fornaxian> that's what the northbridge chip handles..amongst other things.
[17:40:18] <kdehl> Hm.
[17:40:20] <OndraSter_> basically, anything P I+ is quite hard to interface (P I has 64bit bus already)
[17:40:20] <Fornaxian> for a 6502, you don't even need dual port ram.
[17:40:48] <carabia> is 1284p still in production?
[17:40:52] <Fornaxian> you could do an 80286 with sram easily enough.
[17:40:54] <kdehl> Fornaxian: No, that was to simplify the video handling.
[17:41:06] <Fornaxian> carabia, I just got some atmega1284 chips recently.
[17:41:16] <carabia> good
[17:41:26] <Fornaxian> not the p version though.
[17:41:31] <Fornaxian> but, yeah, it's a more modern chip.
[17:41:36] <kdehl> Hm. Does the 286 CPU have some support for specific RAM, you can't just use anything?
[17:41:40] <Fornaxian> and has the largest flash and sram of any dip package avr.
[17:42:00] <Fornaxian> kdehl, you will need sram unless you have a dram controller for the 286.
[17:42:29] <kdehl> Fornaxian: Right, so SRAM it is. Would it be sufficient with a few kb?
[17:42:31] <Fornaxian> I don't believe the 286 can handle the dram refresh on its own.
[17:42:36] <kdehl> Okay.
[17:42:40] <Fornaxian> depends on what you want to do with it.
[17:42:50] <kdehl> Just test it out a little, that's all.
[17:43:04] <Fornaxian> I have some 32KB nvsram chips from maxim-ic.com that would work well.
[17:43:09] <kdehl> And I'd even stay in real mode.
[17:43:15] <kdehl> Cool.
[17:43:27] <kdehl> I just ordered 2 kb chips and thought that was large. Heh.
[17:43:32] <Fornaxian> again, depends on what all you want to do with it.
[17:43:52] <Fornaxian> these are nvsram even....sram with battery backup..onboard lithium battery..10 year life.
[17:44:05] <kdehl> Yeah, I'd just try it out a little. Nothing fancy.
[17:44:08] <kdehl> Oh.
[17:44:12] <kdehl> Never played with those.
[17:44:12] <Fornaxian> somewhere I have a couple of 1MB nvsram modules too.
[17:44:22] <kdehl> Heh.
[17:44:26] <Fornaxian> I use the nvsram modules with 8051/8052 chips.
[17:44:33] <kdehl> Ah.
[17:44:37] <Fornaxian> those can execute program from external ram/rom
[17:44:53] <Fornaxian> unlike the atmega which can only execute from internal flash.
[17:45:06] <kdehl> I need to read up on memory management on the 286...
[17:45:09] <Fornaxian> the 8052 chips I have are as fast as an atmega too...possibly faster.
[17:45:18] <Fornaxian> but harder to work with overall.
[17:45:30] <kdehl> I have a few, but I've never played with them.
[17:46:00] <OndraSter_> kdehl, in real mode it is simple
[17:46:02] <Fornaxian> avr still is the easiest microcontroller I've found to work with overall.
[17:46:15] <OndraSter_> with protected mode it becomes way harder :)
[17:46:21] <OndraSter_> but protected mode without OS is an overkill
[17:46:23] <Fornaxian> I've never done anything with 286 or any x86 processor outside of a PC
[17:46:28] <kdehl> Anyway, I think I'll start with the 6502, and then try to replace it with a 286 once I get the hang of the memory management.
[17:46:37] <Fornaxian> have played with 6502 and 68000 chips though.
[17:46:59] <kdehl> Do you guys know if there was ever a protected mode operating system for the 286 other than Minix?
[17:47:03] <OndraSter_> Fornaxian, I got an older print server (USB - eth) that was based on some proprietary x86 core :D
[17:47:08] <OndraSter_> SoC with external flash+DRAM
[17:47:10] <hackvana> z-80 does dram refresh, and you can run CP/M on it :-)
[17:47:12] <kdehl> I don't recall that windows ever used protected mode on 286, only 386.
[17:47:14] <OndraSter_> had built-in PCI + USB :o
[17:47:22] <Fornaxian> OndraSter_, kewl.
[17:47:26] <OndraSter_> exactly
[17:47:27] <hackvana> kdehl: Xenix
[17:47:28] <OndraSter_> I even dumped the flash
[17:47:34] <kdehl> hackvana: You mean if I use a Z80, I could use a DRAM?
[17:47:38] <kdehl> hackvana: That's new to me.
[17:47:40] <OndraSter_> and it did boot just like on normal x86, from 7c00
[17:47:41] <hackvana> Yes
[17:48:23] <Fornaxian> hmm..looking like the 286 has some kind of memory manager...looking it up.
[17:49:27] <kdehl> Hm.
[17:49:38] <kdehl> Maybe the 6502 isn't the best choice here then, after all.
[17:49:48] <kdehl> But a 286 would be quite awesome.
[17:50:36] <hackvana> The 286's memory management was based on segments, rather than pages. So you could swap out programs but not page them.
[17:51:51] <Fornaxian> 286 needs an external controller for dram it looks like.
[17:52:06] <Fornaxian> 4 different pages refer to an external controller in conjunction with dram.
[17:52:55] <kdehl> But if I use a 4 kb SRAM, I wouldn't need that, would I?
[17:52:56] <hackvana> kdehl: http://searle.hostei.com/grant/cpm/
[17:53:16] <kdehl> hackvana: Nice!
[17:53:46] <hackvana> Or the more simple one here: http://searle.hostei.com/grant/z80/SimpleZ80.html
[17:55:39] <kdehl> hackvana: I was looking at this: http://jmp.no/blog/3-chip-computer
[17:55:52] <N2TOH> Fornaxian, you can run AVR code in an interpreted manner
[18:00:12] <beaky> is it a good idea to exactly scale a diital signal to the full range of the microcontroller adc?
[18:00:17] <beaky> an analog signal*
[18:00:24] <beaky> or are there problms with that
[18:00:25] <Fornaxian> N2TOH, you could run 6502 interpreted code on an AVR faster than you can run it on a 2MHz 6502.
[18:00:37] <N2TOH> LOL
[18:00:38] <N2TOH> cool
[18:00:47] <Essobi> lol
[18:00:50] <N2TOH> what about pdp11 code on an AVR
[18:01:37] <Fornaxian> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ANN5wMbNRU
[18:01:43] <Fornaxian> N2TOH, don't see why not.
[18:02:44] <Fornaxian> generating pal video signal and emulating 6502,,on the same atmega162
[18:03:03] <kdehl> That's pretty cool.
[18:03:35] <Fornaxian> https://sites.google.com/site/retroelec/ homepage for it.
[18:04:41] <Fornaxian> and that at only 16MHz.
[18:04:56] <N2TOH> http://www.lancos.com/ampeos/pagine/indice.html
[18:04:57] <Fornaxian> go with a newer higher end chip like an atmega65
[18:04:57] <Fornaxian> grr
[18:04:57] <Fornaxian> atmega644 or some such.
[18:05:02] <Fornaxian> and run it at 20MHz
[18:05:10] <N2TOH> atmega1284p
[18:05:34] <N2TOH> pin compatable with 644p with 128k flash and 16KB SRAM
[18:05:53] <Fornaxian> that works too.
[18:05:53] <Fornaxian> yup.
[18:05:55] <Fornaxian> I have a pile of them here.
[18:05:55] <hackvana> kdehl: Very interesting, uses the ATmega as a display controller!
[18:06:01] <Fornaxian> 1284 and 1284p
[18:06:39] <Fornaxian> if you were to stick with text mode only you could do without the external sram even.
[18:06:52] <kdehl> hackvana: I know. Hence the dual-port SRAM chip. I didn't even know those existed until I read that blog post.
[18:07:03] <N2TOH> who here understands italian?
[18:07:06] <Fornaxian> dual port sram has been around a long time.
[18:07:12] <Fornaxian> N2TOH, google translate.
[18:08:24] <Fornaxian> http://www.vga-avr.narod.ru/main.html atmega without external sram,,no graphic mode,,generating video signal using the spi port
[18:12:24] <juri_> ok, my code compiled, now why isn't my ADC change interrupt getting triggered?
[18:34:04] <kdehl> Man. I just found a Bulgarian clone of the 6502 on ebay called CM630P for $2.5.
[18:35:18] * kdehl orders two
[18:37:02] <OndraSter_> lol
[18:37:05] <Fornaxian> find an old commodore 64
[18:37:12] <Fornaxian> get the 6510 chip out of it.
[18:37:20] <Fornaxian> it's like a 6502 with a built in gpio port.
[18:37:26] <OndraSter_> bulgarian..
[18:37:26] <OndraSter_> when china is too expensive
[18:37:26] <OndraSter_> and fails
[18:37:31] <kdehl> Sacrifice a C64?!
[18:37:32] <kdehl> Hah.
[18:37:42] <kdehl> Couldn't find any cheap Chinese copies though.
[18:37:52] <Fornaxian> I have a pile of them.
[18:37:57] <Fornaxian> and only one power supply for them.
[18:38:10] <Fornaxian> have 4 non working vic20 boxes too.
[18:38:24] <Fornaxian> those have a plain 6502 in them I think.
[18:38:47] <carabia> got a couple of c64 diskette drives, a few kbd's and a cassette drive
[18:38:49] <carabia> ^__-
[18:39:01] <Fornaxian> those have 6502 chips in them too.
[18:39:04] <Fornaxian> the disk drives
[18:39:07] <carabia> yh
[18:39:08] <N2TOH> network them togeather
[18:39:22] <kdehl> Now, I only need a couple of 286 chips...
[18:39:22] <Fornaxian> cluster of 1541 floppies!
[18:39:35] <carabia> yes 1541
[18:39:38] <carabia> most importantly...
[18:39:40] <theBear> that's a lot of floppies ! <blank look> <grin>
[18:39:43] <N2TOH> cluster of C64!
[18:40:20] <carabia> THEY HAVE GOT A MTHRFKN 6581
[18:41:47] <N2TOH> eh?
[18:41:51] <Fornaxian> still a 6502 with addons.
[18:42:13] <N2TOH> 65K processor lol
[18:42:13] <Fornaxian> oh, wait
[18:42:15] <Fornaxian> that's the sid.
[18:42:24] <carabia> that's _the_ mos sid
[18:42:29] <Fornaxian> 6581 is the sound card for the c64
[18:42:38] <kdehl> SID?
[18:42:43] <carabia> SID.
[18:42:45] <carabia> Amen.
[18:42:46] <N2TOH> sound interface device
[18:42:49] <Fornaxian> sound interface device
[18:42:52] <carabia> and my 40k+ sid collection
[18:43:10] <N2TOH> they make SID cards for the PC
[18:43:13] <carabia> too bad they're eol :((( such a good lil chip
[18:43:57] <carabia> MOS SID is eol. goners.
[18:44:22] <carabia> both the 6581 and the other one...
[18:44:23] <OndraSter_> :)
[18:44:36] <carabia> 8580 i think
[18:44:39] <OndraSter_> I have got here NES which has broken controllers input
[18:44:39] <OndraSter_> have not fixed it yet
[18:44:50] <carabia> hah. fuck japs
[18:45:07] <Fornaxian> 6581/6582/8580R5
[18:45:11] <OndraSter__> I love these old computers
[18:45:13] <OndraSter__> they are so simple!
[18:45:21] <OndraSter__> and processors
[18:45:22] <N2TOH> need an ethernet NES cart
[18:45:27] <OndraSter__> :D
[18:45:32] <OndraSter__> 1Gbit?
[18:45:36] <N2TOH> sure
[18:45:36] <OndraSter__> why not fibre
[18:46:58] <hackvana> Fornaxian: View this and weep: http://www.linusakesson.net/scene/craft/
[18:57:56] <Fornaxian> yup..have seen that one too.
[18:58:40] <Fornaxian> it's even bookmarked.
[18:58:55] <kdehl> Gah. Why can't I find super cheap 1 MHz crystals?!
[18:59:07] <kdehl> I was expected to find something for like a dollar on ebay, but nono...
[18:59:21] <Fornaxian> 1MHz is not so popular these days.
[18:59:49] <kdehl> Guess not.
[19:00:15] <Fornaxian> hmm
[19:00:21] <Fornaxian> even futurlec.com doesn't carry them anymore.
[19:00:29] <bss36504> kdehl: buy an 8Mhz and use the clock divide.
[19:00:38] <Fornaxian> or 2mhz and do similar.
[19:00:48] <kdehl> Nah, I want to keep it simple.
[19:01:01] <bss36504> but...but...it's a fuse setting...
[19:01:05] <Fornaxian> 555 timer for the win!
[19:01:10] <bss36504> clkdiv8
[19:01:23] <hackvana> bss36504: good idea
[19:01:45] <Fornaxian> bss36504, but, I think he is not using it for an avr.
[19:01:56] <kdehl> No, it's for a 6502.
[19:02:18] <Fornaxian> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3541030 1MHz 555 timer.
[19:02:50] <speccy> Hi, I'm just starting with programming an Atmega328p with avrdude. My .hex to blink a LED is written to Flash but it doesnt seem to work, is there someone who can help me?
[19:03:17] <Fornaxian> speccy, probably.
[19:10:49] <speccy> http://pastebin.com/penbgQU6
[19:11:21] <hackvana> speccy: I know my flash program works
[19:13:51] <speccy> thanks guys, I'll take a look at your links
[19:23:33] <jadew> any idea what the connector for this cable is called? http://dumb.ro/screenshot/l1bIt.png
[19:24:23] <N2TOH> flexable circuitboard
[19:24:49] <N2TOH> also called a thin film substrate
[19:26:10] <jadew> and the plug for it?
[19:26:22] <N2TOH> IDFK
[19:26:29] <jadew> hehe
[19:26:39] <bss36504> Make a custom footprint, print a PCB with an adapter you can use.
[19:33:01] <kdehl> Okay, I have a newbie question about clock generators. Generally you use a crystal and two capacitors to generate a clock signal. But I found something on ebay called "SMT Active Crystal Oscillator," and if I understand it correctly, if I use that I don't need any capacitors?
[19:33:06] <kdehl> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PCS-1MHz-5x7MM-SMD-4-Pin-1-MHz-1-000MHz-SMT-Active-Crystal-Oscillator-/300952776207?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46122eee0f
[19:33:56] <N1njAway> kdehl: Yes, that's basically a clock in a can. You apply VCC and GND and you get a TTL square-wave out
[19:34:16] <kdehl> N1njaneer: Awesome. Thanks!
[19:34:17] <N1njaneer> They will also often have an enable pin on the fourth pad.
[19:34:39] <kdehl> Ah, that's what the fourth pin is for!
[19:34:40] <N1njaneer> Very common parts, and often time can get far more precision stability since it's a powered device.
[19:34:42] <bss36504> The crystal and the caps dont create the signal alone, there is a oscillator circuit inside the chip that just uses the resonant frequency of the crystal. But like N1njaneer said, the oscillator is more standalone.
[19:35:06] <kdehl> bss36504: Okay, I see.
[19:35:19] <kdehl> Damn, they're cheap. But surface mounted. Hrmpf...
[19:35:32] <N1njaneer> If you go really crazy, you can get OCXO's that have stability to parts-per-billion, so you have clocks that will only drift by a second over many months.
[19:35:41] <N1njaneer> kdehl: Super-common in thru-hole
[19:35:58] <Fornaxian> kdehl, look at old motherboards...they are everywhere.
[19:36:10] <N1njaneer> search "ttl oscillator" on eBay
[19:36:22] <kdehl> N1njaneer: thru-hole?
[19:36:30] <carabia> it is, what it says it is
[19:37:00] <carabia> also accompanied with its bigger brother, thru-the-rabbit-hole, TTRH packaging
[19:37:12] <N1njaneer> Actually search "dip oscillator" -- hundreds to choose from :)
[19:37:27] <bss36504> carabia: LOL
[19:37:30] <carabia> i think salsa is the best flavor DIP
[19:37:45] <carabia> some good DIP40 salsa
[19:37:59] <N1njaneer> Alternatively thru-black-hole, which is the circuit board equivalent of /dev/null
[19:38:28] <carabia> yes. but then there's always the conundrum about the information loss being real or not
[19:38:41] <kdehl> They're so damn fast. What about people like me, that refuse to leave the 90s? I need 1 MHz only!
[19:38:44] <N2TOH> Siracha
[19:39:03] <bss36504> kdehl: What could possibly not desire more speed?
[19:39:07] <N1njaneer> jadew: Are you still here?
[19:39:14] <jadew> yes
[19:39:15] <kdehl> bss36504: Exactly!
[19:39:31] <bss36504> kdehl: wut? haha
[19:39:42] <bss36504> I mean, why cant you use a faster crystal?
[19:39:49] <N1njaneer> jadew: That's normally referred to as a "flex connector" or "FFC/FPC"
[19:39:50] <jadew> N1njaneer, do you know what it's called?
[19:39:56] <jadew> awesome, thanks
[19:40:49] <N1njaneer> jadew: Search "flex connector" on DigiKey.com, then drill down to "FFC, FPC (Flat Flexible) Connectors - Board Mount" and use parametric search to drill down further based on number of contacts and pitch.
[19:41:08] <N1njaneer> Should be relatively easy to locate a mate.
[19:41:13] <kdehl> bss36504: Haha. I missed the "not" in your sentence.
[19:41:23] <kdehl> bss36504: I'm going to use a 6502. They can't handle more than that.
[19:41:28] <jadew> N1njaneer, thank you
[19:41:34] <bss36504> N1njaneer - Matchmaker
[19:42:01] <N1njaneer> Sometimes those connections are designed to be hot-bar soldered, but it appears like you should be able to find a connector for that.
[19:42:25] <N1njaneer> bss: I do what I can!
[19:42:36] <carabia> ethics of hot-baring on the first date are questionable
[19:42:57] <bss36504> Miracles do happen sometimes! Never thought I'd see it on our humble IRC.
[19:43:02] <jadew> N1njaneer, yeah, I found the category :)
[19:43:05] <N1njaneer> bss: Oh and I started writing that network stack this past weekend, too! I have it parsing Ethernet packets nicely, though trying to figure out what why I can't transmit one out to the network yet. Something running odd: )
[19:43:14] <bss36504> kdehl: Why? Why are you using that? haha
[19:43:42] <bss36504> N1njaneer: last thing on the bucket list, eh?
[19:43:56] <jadew> N1njaneer, for what device?
[19:44:12] <N1njaneer> kdehl: You can also easily take a faster clock crystal and send it through something like a 74LS393 ripple counter which will divide it down by 2^n
[19:44:32] <N1njaneer> So power-of-2 division between 2 and 512
[19:44:33] <kdehl> N1njaneer: Yeah, I saw that suggestion, but I want to keep it simple.
[19:44:47] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Yes, then I can die happily!
[19:44:52] <N1njaneer> jadew: SAM4E
[19:44:52] <kdehl> bss36504: I'm going to copy this guy's thingy: http://jmp.no/blog/3-chip-computer
[19:45:20] <jadew> N1njaneer, ah, does it have an ethernet interface?
[19:45:24] <N1njaneer> kdehl: Nice! I did a similar thing to that with a 68000 a while ago.
[19:45:31] <jadew> thought you're trying it on an avr
[19:45:31] <N1njaneer> jadew: Yes, on-board MAC, off-board PHY
[19:45:37] <jadew> nice
[19:45:46] <kdehl> N1njaneer: Cool.
[19:46:00] <kdehl> I was talking earlier about using an 80286.
[19:46:15] <kdehl> But 6502 is an all-time favorite of mine, so... I'll start there. Heh.
[19:46:15] <bss36504> kdehl: neat project!
[19:46:24] <N1njaneer> If it were an off-board MAC I could more easily snoop the bus. Fighting Atmel's ASF since I'm coding it all in C++ which does NOT play nicely with the ASF, which will only generate C projects.
[19:46:47] <kdehl> bss36504: Indeed. It was featured on hackaday.com
[19:47:01] <N1njaneer> I can send packets to the GMAC and they queue properly, but I can't see anything out on the network via Wireshark, it's weird.
[19:47:23] <bss36504> N1njaneer: Is it just me or does ASF work *almost* perfectly? It's such a pain to make it work for a generic hardware setup that it's not even worth it.
[19:47:37] <juri_> ok, now my ADC is reading all 1s.
[19:47:52] <N1njaneer> Then I was seeing ARP reply packets from all of Atmel's examples that were causing Wireshark to throw FSC check errors, which I wrote my FAE about yesterday to have the SAM group verify WTF is going on.
[19:48:09] <bss36504> so. many. acronyms.
[19:48:14] <N1njaneer> FSC is also applied at HARDWARE level on the GMAC automatically (which is nice) but means I can't really see what it's sending.
[19:49:15] <bss36504> juri_: check AREF?
[19:49:43] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Yes, that's been my experience. The ASF WILL become something really nice in the future, but the lack of documentation and the crazy-ass dependencies make it a bear to work with. And the six hours it took to figure out how to make it talk to C++ code was a bit... asinine. Required modifying a bunch of crap in the actual .cproj XML project settings, copying symbols, fixing linker settings,
[19:49:44] <N1njaneer> etc etc
[19:50:45] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Still Atmel Studio is LIGHTYEARS ahead of other toolchains like Digi's ESP (on Eclipse) or TI's Code Composer for the MSP430... Atmel Studio is WAY reliable and doesn't make you want to slit your wrists 10 minutes in.
[19:51:16] <bss36504> N1njaneer: oh that's awful. It's like they're trying to make something almost like Freescale's processor expert. I wish I could just say, "Ok, I have a 328, and I want to import an SPI driver. Then port the whole project to another part, and have ASF make it work.
[19:51:28] <bss36504> At least, thats what it seems like they are trying to do.
[19:51:49] <N1njaneer> And the worst part is those other toolchains MOSTLY work, but stuff like "Oh, JTAG stopped responding for NO REASON AT ALL TIME TO REBOOT TO FIX IT" hasn't happened to me yet on Atmel Studio. I click UPLOAD and it just loads and runs and debug perfectly EVERY time.
[19:52:22] <bss36504> I do love AS and Atmel tools in general.
[19:52:39] <bss36504> They usually just work. Though I do have a deep seated hatred for ISP + dW
[19:52:51] <bss36504> Countless chips bricked...haha
[19:53:02] <N1njaneer> Digi makes some nice stuff, but you literally do need a support contract with their office in order to make any of it work for production, and some of the lack of thought given to a lot of the design makes it an experience to suffer through every stop.
[19:53:05] <N1njaneer> +step
[19:53:41] <N1njaneer> bss36504: I've never managed to brick up an AVR device in 12 years from problems related to ISP/dW. Maybe I've just gotten lucky?
[19:54:17] <bss36504> N1njaneer: Let me clarify, I'm just too lazy to break out the Dragon and parallel program the fuses back to how they should be.
[19:54:30] <Valen> lol
[19:54:44] <bss36504> I always seem to get stuck in the dwen + SPI disable stage.
[19:55:50] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Trying to think of other things on the technical bucket list :)
[19:56:48] <bss36504> design an asic and get it made by MOSIS?
[20:00:34] <N1njaneer> Never done that personally, but we do have some cool custom silicon here :)
[20:00:54] <bss36504> Did your firm design it?
[20:01:42] <N1njaneer> Not in-house, no. But we're doing some pilot implementation for it - not a part you can outright buy. Almost qualified for production. :)
[20:02:26] <bss36504> Thats pretty awesome
[20:03:14] <N1njaneer> It's an amazing part. Imagine being able to control a string of RGB LEDs updated at video refresh rates using only a single wire between nodes in the chain. :)
[20:04:21] <bss36504> That is pretty awesome. I've dabbled in some LED array design work and software control, but nothing that cool. I work for a memory company, so I see all kinds of custom chips, but it's not very exciting. I definitely don't want to do applications for a memory company forever. Kinda lame.
[20:04:59] <N1njaneer> Lotsa neat applications when you don't need huge wiring harnesses anymore, and each node is an RGB LED, a 1x1m chip, and a single 0603 cap
[20:05:33] <bss36504> 1x1mm* ?
[20:06:12] <theBear> asf ? c++ ? i'm confused
[20:06:14] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Still cool stuff, though. Memory is admittedly at the heart of all systems! I like some of the neat exotic stuff out there like SBSRAM and friends :)
[20:06:20] <theBear> oh dammit, bear to work with
[20:06:28] <theBear> wrong highlight :)
[20:06:28] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Yep, CSP, or a 3x3mm QFN
[20:07:17] <N1njaneer> "30 beakys agree.... Atmel is awesome."
[20:08:18] <bss36504> N1njaneer: Memory is cool enough I guess. This is Phase Change Memory, so it's pretty cutting edge. But making demo applications is pretty lame, especially at these low densities. Now are these little leds the same as the one you hand soldered a wire to the die?
[20:08:42] <N1njaneer> bss36504: But yeah, I always thought learning more about ASIC layout would be awesome, but not something I could really do myself. So more a grand bucket list, but trying to think more about my coding bucket list.
[20:09:06] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Nah, that was just me dicking around with soldering XD
[20:09:26] <bss36504> I might end up dabbling in some small digital or mixed signal design on the next design rev of our chip, and we always need layout resources so I may end up learning that too
[20:10:00] <bss36504> My confidence in circuit design is not as high as it is with embedded design.
[20:10:57] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Just takes some practice I guess! You build, learn, let the smoke out a few times, repeat, then let it out less with each subsequent design.
[20:11:34] <bss36504> Unfortunately, the stakes are a bit higher in a chip design :P But I am learning. Haven't even graduated yet.
[20:11:41] <N1njaneer> Zen is wondering the consequences of letting the smoke out of a smoke machine. Did you succeed, or fail, or yes?
[20:13:34] <N1njaneer> bss36504: Nonsense, you just resculpt the chip with a FIB! Every chip design firm should have one. XD
[20:15:39] <bss36504> haha I suppose thats true. We're really, really small. 9 person design team, 4 test, 3 interns including myself (even though I've been there for 1.5 years and the company is only 3 years old) + a handful of upper management off location.
[20:16:09] <N1njaneer> Nice, that's awesome. I do like small shops.
[20:16:52] <jadew> you're making custom chips?
[20:16:58] <bss36504> It's a very nice work environment, but when you are the entire applications dept. with no mentor, it can be tough to spot mistakes.
[20:17:00] <jadew> how much does that cost?
[20:17:06] <bss36504> jadew: who was that to?
[20:17:16] <jadew> to you I guess, I didn't follow the discussion
[20:18:32] <jadew> so are you?
[20:18:36] <bss36504> Oh, I work for a small fabless semiconductor company. Our tech aggreement with a certain large semiconductor company costs roughly 800K a month and the masks cost easily $2M+.
[20:18:42] <bss36504> agreement*
[20:19:00] <jadew> damn
[20:19:05] <jadew> that's super expensive
[20:19:16] <N1njaneer> bss36504: What size process are you fabbing on typically?
[20:19:34] <bss36504> yeah. That doesn't even count the cost of paying the designers and test engineers + equipment costs.
[20:19:37] <N1njaneer> I know a lot of the older stuff isn't nearly as expensive.
[20:20:11] <bss36504> N1njaneer: We run 90nm tech right now on 200mm wafers but we're switching fabs to run 52nm on 300mm wafers
[20:21:05] <bss36504> 55nm*
[20:21:12] <jadew> so how does a chip come to be/
[20:21:15] <jadew> ?
[20:21:16] <N1njaneer> Nice! Yeah, I could see that being super expensive. There's a lot of older fabs doing much larger sizes practically sitting idle, so masks and fab turns are a lot less expensive - couple hundreds bucks a wafer through fab.
[20:21:18] <jadew> what's the process?
[20:21:26] <jadew> from idea to finished product
[20:21:37] <bss36504> Well: 1) Design in schematics
[20:21:43] <bss36504> 2) layout
[20:21:56] <bss36504> 3) Tape-out. Send the designs to the fab so they can make the masks
[20:22:09] <bss36504> 4) recieve wafers, test chips, modify designs
[20:22:14] <bss36504> 5) repeat until finished
[20:22:55] <jadew> so you guys have like huge schematics for each chip?
[20:23:07] <N1njaneer> jadew: There's actually some excellent videos on YouTube that detail the processes and theory.
[20:23:54] <bss36504> N1njaneer: Yeah our main cost is the tech agreement. PCM is experimental so we pay a large company with a 200mm fab lots of money to make our wafers and share IP.
[20:24:01] <jadew> N1njaneer, will deffinitely take a look, it's something that you don't hear about very often
[20:24:34] <bss36504> jadew: I think Global Foundries has a video about it. It's pretty cheesy in some parts, but it's informative.
[20:24:47] <N1njaneer> jadew: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBAKXvsaEiw a bit watered down explanation, but very good primer and a short video.
[20:25:41] <jadew> cool, thanks
[20:25:53] <bss36504> N1njaneer: ah yes, the good ol' "insert random cutscene of regular, relatable item" intro scene :P
[20:28:26] <N1njaneer> bss36504: I dug up another YouTube video if you want to see other wacky stuff I've worked on :)
[20:28:37] <bss36504> ooh goody :)
[20:28:51] <jadew> post it
[20:29:21] <N1njaneer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvF3JZcGvBQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iodpYzTgYE
[20:31:08] <N1njaneer> Did a hack to MAME about 10 years ago to run it out to laser in real-time :)
[20:31:33] <bss36504> Wait, so that's a laser projection?
[20:32:28] <N1njaneer> It is indeed.
[20:32:38] <bss36504> That is super badass.
[20:32:52] <N1njaneer> That's actually TWO projectors to load-balance the vector scanning.
[20:33:22] <N1njaneer> Rewrote it for SIGGRAPH since they really really really wanted to run Star Wars and it has a lot of detail.
[20:34:36] <N1njaneer> It was a fun show, and got to meet (and drink with) some really cool computer graphics peoples.
[20:36:19] <N1njaneer> But yeah, fun random shit that literally was done for the hell of it.
[20:36:32] <N1njaneer> Which is always the best reason
[20:38:49] <bss36504> That's really cool. There are a number of neat places I'd like to work during my career, and a place like yours sounds awesome.
[20:39:19] <N1njaneer> Make it happen! Cool stuff is out there in the world to do and experience. Anyone can if they have the ambition. :D
[20:40:54] <bss36504> There certainly is, and I have a lot of time to do it. I don't want to end up like some guys who work at the same place till they get laid off at 55 or they retire or whatever. It seems unfulfilling. Being pigeonholed at a big company is no fun at all.
[20:41:21] <N1njaneer> Definatly.
[20:43:06] <bss36504> I know a lot of guys who just got hit in the last IBM layoff. It was pretty sad to see these extremely valuable engineers who now have very few options. Take a pay cut or find another big company job.
[20:45:31] <N1njaneer> Yeah.
[20:45:37] <N1njaneer> Good to be light on the feet these days.
[20:57:54] <N1njaneer> Hooray. Slightly-used Zebra printer recalibrated and functional.
[20:59:31] <N1njaneer> Did I kill the conversation? X.x
[21:00:07] <bss36504> haha nope, sorry. Got distracted by my movie. Which is surprising since it's really not *that* good.
[21:00:15] <bss36504> Congrats on the printer :P
[21:01:04] <N1njaneer> Local surplus place has Zebra 105SL's for $90 each. Uline is still selling them for $2200, more with the network interface.
[21:04:34] <bss36504> Well this is neato: http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/10/28/holy-shit-motorola-announces-project-ara-an-open-modular-smartphone-hardware-platform/
[21:05:28] <N1njaneer> Wow, interesting. That's WAY better than that stupid Phonebloks concept
[21:06:02] <bss36504> N1njaneer: That seems like a neat printer. Not sure what I'd need one for, but if someone gave me one, I wouldnt throw it out...then again, I never throw anything out.
[21:06:08] <N1njaneer> Of course you drop it and it takes 20 minutes to figure out how to put it back together when it becomes 50 seperate peices XD
[21:06:29] <bss36504> It's like when you're a kid and you drop your lego creation down the stairs.
[21:08:17] <N1njaneer> bss36504: I want one of those modules that HAS lego-connector tabs on it. Gonna bling that shit out with some plastic trees and those coveted rooftop slanty-tiles!
[21:09:39] <bss36504> damn, I love playing with legos...
[21:09:54] * bss36504 gets in car to get tote of legos from parent's house
[21:10:05] <bss36504> timeless fun.
[21:10:39] <N2TOH> unless you step on them
[21:12:12] <bss36504> I just considered it part of a lego minefield
[23:08:54] <juri_> any idea why my adc always reads all 1s?
[23:11:27] <Casper> you set the pin as output? or set AREF to GND?
[23:17:14] <N1njaneer> juri_: Do you have it autotriggering as well as set up for clock division correctly?
[23:17:22] <N1njaneer> Also, which Atmel part?
[23:17:43] <juri_> ok, its doing something saneish now.
[23:18:04] <juri_> the input pin that is disconnected gives me random results, and the pins that are connected read all 1s.
[23:18:16] * juri_ grounds 1 of them.
[23:18:30] <N1njaneer> What part, Juri?
[23:18:35] <juri_> 8535.
[23:20:14] <N1njaneer> Do you have your reference selected properly?
[23:20:43] <juri_> i do now. didn't earlier.
[23:20:54] <juri_> ok; i declare that sane.
[23:21:20] <juri_> 5v=all 1s, 3v=0x0280-0x0288..
[23:22:14] <N1njaneer> Sounds better!
[23:22:46] <N1njaneer> There are some nuances with later chips with the ADCs - there's another option that sometimes needs to be flipped, since you can disable some of the ADC pins if memory serves. Have run in to that before.
[23:23:14] <N1njaneer> But just checked the 8535 datasheet and it doesn't appear to have that :)