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[00:00:15] <Casper> in fact, one of the main one...
[00:15:56] <braincracker> Tesla Roadster electric car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DnW3tpQ57I
[00:16:02] <braincracker> Tesla Roadster Sport VS Porsche 911 turbo (Motorsport)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxveY1R2pws
[00:16:14] <braincracker> the batteries are the most expensive part ;/
[00:25:07] <Valen> this guy is so awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp97GjuULX8&list=UUJ0-OtVpF0wOKEqT2Z1HEtA
[00:29:32] <Casper> the sad thing is that the battery need to be replaced every like 5-10 years
[00:29:44] <Casper> and that's about when you want to change the car...
[00:29:59] <Casper> and at that time... the battery will cost more than the resell value of the car
[00:30:01] <braincracker> 2010 Tesla Roadster Sport 0-60 in 3.7 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF8fFVuIS2M
[00:31:53] <specing> Casper: 10 years?
[00:32:23] <Casper> specing: the 10 years rating is probably way too optimistic
[00:32:25] <specing> all of the li-ion batteries I've had went useless after 3-4 years
[00:32:44] <Valen> li-ion are crap for calander life
[00:32:46] <specing> they can only hold <50% charge now
[00:32:55] <Valen> lifepo4 is where it is at for long life
[00:33:07] <Casper> and even then, it's still not proven yet
[00:33:21] <Casper> lab and real life condidions are quite different
[00:33:24] <specing> life poo 4 you? :D
[00:34:30] <Valen> the tesla is using a cobalt lithium battery but they keep the state of charge in a fairly managed region to maximise the life
[00:34:51] <braincracker> i think tesla has A123 cells.
[00:34:53] <Valen> theres some large format lifepo4s that must be coming up on 10 years now
[00:35:01] <Valen> yeah thats the lifepo4 chemistry
[00:36:28] <Valen> at 10 years they are meant to have 70% of their as new capacity
[00:36:42] <Valen> with 3000 cycles on them to 80% DOD
[00:36:48] <braincracker> it all depends on how hard you are pushing it.
[00:37:26] <Valen> that is where lifepo4 is losing to lipo at the moment
[00:37:34] <Valen> lipo has much better power/kg
[00:37:43] <Valen> a little better energy/kg too
[00:39:18] <Casper> but can LiFePO4 be used in standby application? like ups?
[00:39:33] <Valen> should be fine for it
[00:39:34] <Casper> standard lithium isn't good for that
[00:39:39] <Valen> just don't float charge it
[00:39:53] <Valen> lithium should be ok for standby use
[00:40:03] <Valen> if anything better than lead acid
[00:40:18] <Valen> lipo would be much more expensive though
[00:40:49] <Valen> I would suggest doing a few discharge/charge cycles per year for any lithium chemistry though
[00:41:56] <Casper> yeah, which make it not too suitable
[00:42:07] <Valen> you need to do that with lead acids as well
[00:42:10] <Casper> as it need manual intervention...
[00:42:26] <Valen> why? its all automated
[00:42:28] <Casper> never hear of a required cycle for LA
[00:42:57] <Valen> are you talking toy UPS or big style telco ups?
[00:43:09] <Casper> except for flooded type, to stir the acid (so a simple periodical 14.4V for 15 mins or so do the trick)
[00:45:25] <Valen> My understanding of the large UPS systems is they will cycle the battery banks periodically
[00:45:39] <Valen> mostly under the guise of load tests but it has the same end result
[00:45:56] <Valen> a lead acid thats just been sitting on float charge for ages will have hardly any capacity
[00:46:13] <Valen> put a few cycles into it and it will have much greater capacity
[01:00:39] <braincracker> Tesla prices starting at $101,500 for the Roadster - you replace the battery pack at a cost of around $40,000 ($32,000 plus labor and taxes)
[01:11:16] <braincracker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S why not put solar cells on the roof? ;/
[01:11:34] <Casper> Valen: "cycle" like 2 seconds transfert every weeks or so...
[01:12:11] <Casper> braincracker: solar panel wouln't give enought power
[01:12:22] <Casper> actually, insignificant power
[01:12:23] <braincracker> some power is more than no power :P
[01:12:37] <braincracker> rather stay in the desert with this?
[01:12:43] <Casper> for a standard roof, you'ld get what... 300W?
[01:12:49] <Casper> that's half an hp
[01:12:51] <braincracker> at most maybe
[01:13:09] <braincracker> biggest pack is 85kWh in these
[01:13:21] <Casper> a full day in sunlight would make your car move by what... half a km?
[01:13:34] <braincracker> for 426km
[01:13:54] <Casper> 426 on highway
[01:14:06] <Casper> not of start from a complete stop
[01:14:15] <braincracker> that gives 5km/kWH
[01:15:05] <braincracker> well, not that cool
[01:15:55] <braincracker> an electric bicycle accelerates with 300W
[01:16:26] <braincracker> and keeps up 30-40kmh-1 minimum
[01:16:50] <Casper> yes, but it have almost zero tire... hmmm... no idea what's the term... but the rubber tend to not want to change shape once you're stopped
[01:17:02] <Casper> and need lots of power just to overcome that
[01:17:16] <Casper> then you have to accelerate the full mass
[01:17:29] <braincracker> sure, 2.5T
[01:17:54] <Casper> then consider that the solar panel is in glass, it mean an high chance of breaking
[01:17:55] <braincracker> and the rolling resistance of tires is larger if the thing is heavier
[01:18:09] <braincracker> windshield is glass too.
[01:18:12] <Casper> plus the fact that it's almost black... it would absorb lots of heat, so more A/C :D
[01:18:23] <Casper> windshield is tampered
[01:18:29] <Casper> and laminated
[01:18:45] <Casper> solar panels need a thin glass to be more efficient
[01:18:46] <braincracker> get polycarbonate for your solar cells
[01:19:05] <Casper> less efficient
[01:19:17] <Casper> you'ld get then maybe 200W
[01:19:40] <braincracker> By December 2012, Tesla reported that production had reached 400 units per week or 20,000 per year.[35][36] In March 2013 Tesla reported they produced on average more than 500 model S EVs per week
[01:19:58] <braincracker> nice, so many rich people
[01:20:42] <Casper> ya
[01:20:49] <braincracker> A battery replacement option may be purchased for a cost of US$10,000 for the 60kWh battery and US$12,000 for the 85kWh battery and will provide a replacement battery anytime after the 8th year of operation of the original battery.
[01:20:52] <Casper> no wonder why so many people go bankrupt
[01:20:54] <braincracker> hoho nice, i'll get some of these
[01:21:36] <braincracker> stack it on an e-bike
[01:21:50] <Casper> or on an ups
[01:22:00] <braincracker> and wind turbines
[01:22:00] <Casper> run your house for a week :D
[01:22:03] <braincracker> sure
[01:22:13] <Casper> but you know what's sad?
[01:22:15] <braincracker> solar+wind
[01:22:30] <Casper> that the water supply from the city isn't more powerfull...
[01:22:42] <Casper> could have made a nice backup power...
[01:23:02] <Casper> I estimate the power at like 30W...
[01:23:10] <Casper> at 100W it would have been usefull
[01:23:35] <braincracker> use a water tower
[01:24:26] <Casper> would need to be too high and big and freeze in winter
[01:25:22] <braincracker> i'd tra painting it black
[01:25:24] <braincracker> y
[01:25:34] <braincracker> and adding solar collectors
[01:26:26] <Casper> I'm actually considering a steam turbine
[01:27:00] <braincracker> stirling engine is the proper way
[01:27:58] <braincracker> hm, wait, for what ?
[01:28:27] <Casper> small backup power
[01:28:36] <Casper> and possibly heat generation
[01:32:08] <braincracker> L.A. to Vegas in One Charge? Tesla Model S Road Trip! - Wide Open Throttle Episode 31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO9Rku_ZNeM
[01:32:22] <Casper> well, nite
[01:32:30] <braincracker> also it is not fun to stop and charge half-way or almost there on a trip
[01:32:44] <braincracker> i'd throw another 85kWh pack to the back seat
[05:35:34] <megal0maniac_afk> I think I like internal combustion
[05:35:42] <megal0maniac_afk> It works
[05:43:17] <specing> until you run out of fuel
[05:53:02] <megal0maniac_afk> Then you put more in and you're on your way again in 5 minutes
[05:53:21] <specing> you could also swap the battery
[05:53:57] <megal0maniac_afk> Equivalent is having a jerry can. And that doesn't cost $10 000
[05:54:51] <megal0maniac_afk> My entire car, with a full tank only cost $3 800. And cars are expensive here
[05:54:57] <specing> one day someone will invent a revolutionary battery that stores 100 times as much energe per kg than li-ion and doesen't have a memory effect
[05:55:23] <specing> I have a feeling that will happen when we run out of fossil fuels
[05:55:48] <megal0maniac_afk> Lots of people say that "the technology is already there" and "they're hiding it because they'd make more money out of batteries that die" and stuff.
[05:56:18] <megal0maniac> Don't know how much I believe, but I wouldn't be surprised
[05:56:33] <specing> neither would I
[05:56:58] <specing> Without access to information, we can only speculate
[05:57:46] <specing> and we arent getting that or any other information in a parliamentary "democracy"
[05:58:13] <megal0maniac> Right
[06:00:19] <megal0maniac> On another note, how would you make an interrupt driven LED blinker that blinks at 1Hz with a 16MHz or 8MHz or other unsuitable main clock
[06:00:43] <megal0maniac> Because timer overflows won't happen at 1Hz, regardless of the prescaler
[06:01:24] <megal0maniac> (While the programming lecturer tells us about creating our own functions in C)
[06:02:57] <specing> you need a stable time source...
[06:03:43] <specing> actually "blinks at 1Hz" is "blinks at 1/blabla the rate of clock X"
[06:03:57] <specing> but that depends on clock C
[06:03:57] <megal0maniac> So either I use a clock which I can divide nicely, or I do it in software?
[06:04:00] <specing> X
[06:04:44] <specing> ya
[06:05:49] <megal0maniac> Can you write to a timer? Silly question, maybe, but you could have it set the timer value to a preset value when it rolls over, truncating it to something convenient
[06:09:26] <megal0maniac> Otherwise with X of 16mhz, one could use a 16bit timer with prescaler of 256
[06:09:44] <megal0maniac> Which would give 953mS, which is close
[06:09:57] <megal0maniac> Not exact, but sufficient for blinking
[06:28:02] <Valen> I used a 8 bit timer with a prescaler and a top value to hit 100.25hz
[06:28:13] <Valen> if you are after accuracy then use the bessenham method
[06:29:59] <Valen> http://www.romanblack.com/one_sec.htm
[06:36:47] <Valen> megal0maniac_afk: ^
[06:49:56] <monkers> Hi, does AVRDude not work with the Arduino Leonardo? Eclipse tells me that AVRdude says "MCU is not supported" (ATmega32U4 @ 16000000 clock)
[08:40:49] <jacekowski> monkers: you may need newer version of avrdude
[09:15:52] <monkers> jacekowski - ok ty
[09:23:20] <antto> i get a lil bit confused, if MSTR and SPE are set in SPCR - what's the frequency of the spi?
[09:24:45] <antto> oh, SPR0 and SPR1, i see now
[09:25:03] <antto> so f/8 if just SPR0 is set
[09:25:18] <antto> f/16 i mean
[09:25:47] <antto> thus, for f/8 i gotta set this SPIx2 bit in the SPSR?
[09:37:10] <rue_bed> monkers, mcu not supported means update avrdude :)
[09:37:42] <rue_bed> or you can just create the definition for it in the config
[09:37:52] <rue_bed> which is all thats different in the new avrdude
[09:38:21] <monkers> gotcha
[09:38:28] <monkers> do you use eclipse?
[09:39:35] <rue_bed> nope, avrdude and gcc direct
[09:39:48] <monkers> ok
[09:39:50] <rue_bed> I use nedit for editing cause its got an awesome macro system
[10:04:27] <Amnesia> question, are ppl/cloog mandatory in order to compile avr-gcc?
[13:10:13] <abcminiuser> Jesus christ
[13:10:16] <abcminiuser> People are stupid
[13:11:26] <abcminiuser> Summary: Bitcoin
[13:11:27] <abcminiuser> Jesus
[13:12:31] <abcminiuser> NOOOOOO
[13:12:37] <abcminiuser> They're using out chips
[13:31:43] <xorly> abcminiuser: what's wrong with Bitcoin?
[13:32:53] <abcminiuser> EVERYTHING
[13:36:45] <Steffanx> Rant done abcminiuser?
[13:36:58] <abcminiuser> Honestly I can't be buggered today
[13:37:08] <abcminiuser> Just pretent I made my usual cogent argument against it
[13:38:06] <Steffanx> i guess you had a fun day at work
[13:38:17] <Steffanx> is it getting too gold for an aussie again?
[13:38:22] <Steffanx> *cold
[13:38:52] <abcminiuser> We'
[13:38:58] <RikusW> Steffanx: back in avr ? :-P
[13:38:59] <abcminiuser> We're under a bibical support load
[13:39:15] <Steffanx> For now RikusW.
[13:39:15] <abcminiuser> One of the sites was offline for reasons I forget, so we got the bunt of it
[13:39:21] <abcminiuser> 40 tickets for 5 people :P
[13:39:35] * RikusW is waiting to get ADSL installed again, after moving
[13:39:41] <Steffanx> "I NEED HELP! PLEAAASE!" ?
[13:39:48] <abcminiuser> We get all kinds
[13:39:53] <RikusW> GSM internet is crap... high latency...
[13:40:04] <abcminiuser> At least we try to answer every single one
[13:40:07] <RikusW> even on HSDPA
[13:40:15] <abcminiuser> Even if it's just a nicely worded "bugger off"
[13:40:54] <Steffanx> i should mail the atmel helpdesk more often i guess
[13:42:32] * abcminiuser rages
[13:42:47] <abcminiuser> Other than that, reference design work is fun
[13:42:52] <Steffanx> Can we redirect arduino questions to you too?
[13:47:49] <RikusW> don't torment him ;)
[13:51:08] <abcminiuser> I'm off again :P
[13:51:32] <abcminiuser> Load is down after we all pitched in
[13:51:32] <abcminiuser> So no more support for a few weeks for me
[13:51:32] <abcminiuser> So email away :P
[14:19:23] <ambro718> I made a portable Linux build of avr-gcc 4.8.1 if anyone needs it,
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx9devQE0OqbWTh4VUFvOWhlNEU/edit
[14:32:08] <Amnesia> ambro718: I just went through the compilation myself
[14:32:30] <Amnesia> is it correct that ppl and cloog are absolutely required by avr-gcc?
[14:32:42] <Amnesia> & libisl *
[14:44:48] * RikusW is now online using a custom SIM900 PCB and U2S as USB -> serial converter :)
[14:45:02] <specing> lol
[14:45:14] <specing> incoming reset by peer
[14:45:36] <RikusW> it seems 16MHz crystals can actually to 115200bps :)
[14:45:42] <RikusW> *do
[14:46:17] * RikusW is waiting to have ADSL installed at the new flat...
[14:46:27] <specing> is that IP you public one?
[14:47:07] <rue_bed> http://www.wormfood.net/avrbaudcalc.php
[14:47:12] <rue_bed> with 3.7% error
[14:48:01] <RikusW> are you ping flooding it ?
[14:48:04] <specing> ya
[14:48:12] <specing> 3700 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 49387ms :(
[14:48:23] <rue_bed> 14.7456 Mhz is a better one for any baud rate
[14:48:36] <rue_bed> specing, dont ping floor RikusW
[14:48:44] <specing> rue_bed: WHYYYYYYYY :(
[14:48:44] <rue_bed> or flood even
[14:49:00] <rue_bed> its not nice to do to people who may be on dialup
[14:49:10] <RikusW> hmm indeed
[14:49:22] * RikusW should get cloaked...
[14:49:29] <RikusW> or get back ADSL
[14:49:40] <rue_bed> RikusW, you get the baud rate link?
[14:49:49] <RikusW> yep
[14:49:52] <rue_bed> k
[14:50:01] <rue_bed> WormFood, hes got the link
[14:50:02] <RikusW> I use the ones in the AVR datasheet
[14:50:08] <specing> RikusW: did you see the flood coming or did I hit some random telco's box?
[14:50:35] <RikusW> and I wrote a function in asm to convert baud to UBRR for 16MHz crystal
[14:50:52] <rue_bed> RikusW, a table is nice, all the common crystals are there too, I almost never put in custom freq's
[14:51:11] <RikusW> specing: RX bytes started counting...
[14:51:18] <specing> hah
[14:51:23] <RikusW> 200KB or so
[14:51:59] <RikusW> rue_bed: I have to convert baud to UBRR on the fly
[14:52:09] <RikusW> but only for 16 MHz though
[14:52:15] <rue_bed> your crystal changes on the fly?
[14:52:17] <rue_bed> ah
[14:52:38] <rue_bed> never heard of anyone using a VCO on their avr
[14:52:43] <RikusW> the baud can
[14:52:51] <RikusW> because its USB -> serial
[14:52:54] <rue_bed> yep
[14:53:10] <rue_bed> well its 12
[14:53:21] <rue_bed> I best get up, shower and have breakfast
[14:55:14] * RikusW better check the battery level on that board, its not currently USB powered...
[15:02:05] <WormFood> 36.824 is also a good frequency
[15:24:23] <ambro718> Amnesia: I don't think so, afaik gcc only neets gmp, mpc and mpfr
[15:24:38] <Amnesia> ambro718: how's that possible
[15:24:47] <Amnesia> gcc failed to compile over here without them
[15:25:23] <ambro718> I built those manually, they're shipped in my build (and I've patched the rpath of binaries so they are found, and not the libs from the os)
[15:25:48] <ambro718> I've never heard of any of the libs you mention
[15:26:04] <Amnesia> could you give me some details of your building process?
[15:26:42] <Amnesia> <-
https://privatepaste.com/afc122edce
[15:27:14] <Amnesia> the compiliation of that fails without the libs I was talking about
[15:27:16] <ambro718> here's my ldd of cc1plus
http://ideone.com/nKZhY1
[15:27:57] <ambro718> hm you use lots of configure arguments
[15:28:16] <Amnesia> hm I don't have a binary called cc1plus..
[15:28:19] <ambro718> I just did this
http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/install_tools.html#install_avr_gcc
[15:28:25] <ambro718> Amnesia: of course you do it's in libexec
[15:28:43] <Amnesia> https://privatepaste.com/0b32ba190c
[15:28:49] <ambro718> well if you disabled c++ then you only have cc1
[15:29:24] <Amnesia> I don't even have libexec
[15:29:29] <Amnesia> in my entire fhs
[15:30:18] <ambro718> well you did pass --libexecdir=/usr/lib to gcc configure
[15:30:37] <ambro718> and what the hell are you doing installing that to your os
[15:31:46] <ambro718> anyway my compiler works, feel free to use it. Just need to export PATH=<dir>/bin;$PATH
[15:32:12] <Amnesia> https://privatepaste.com/c20aa75bf4
[15:32:13] <Amnesia> sorry you
[15:32:15] <Amnesia> 're right
[15:32:26] <Amnesia> but the reason I'm asking, is because I made some ports for my distribution
[15:32:41] <ambro718> well it's not linked to any of the libs you mentioned
[15:32:49] <Amnesia> nope..
[15:33:02] <ambro718> did gcc configure actually fail and complain that you need them?
[15:33:19] <Amnesia> yep
[15:33:42] <ambro718> could be due to you enabling some feature, or not disabling it
[15:34:07] <ambro718> the instructions on the doc page I linked work, they only need gmp/mpc/mpfr
[15:34:56] <Amnesia> do you still know what config arguments you made use of?
[15:35:48] <ambro718> the ones in the link, plus --with-<x>=... for x in {gmp,mpc,mpfr} to get it to find my custom builds
[15:36:33] <Amnesia> hm let me have a look..
[15:38:06] <ambro718> --enable-cloog-backend=isl is probably the culprit
[15:40:18] <Amnesia> I've also tried it without that
[15:40:26] <Amnesia> and it was mainly complaining about ppl
[15:40:41] <ambro718> Amnesia: you lose some optimizations by disabling cloog/graphite but I'm not sure if they're applicable to AVR in the first place
[15:41:58] <ambro718> btw I built 4.8.1 not 4.8.0
[15:43:17] <Amnesia> yeah I saw..
[15:44:38] <Amnesia> but ppl isn't installed on your box right?
[15:45:14] <ambro718> I don't know, let me check, it's an ubuntu vm
[15:45:29] <ambro718> so it links to a bit older version of libc
[15:46:42] <Amnesia> I bet ubuntu has those libs installed..
[15:48:34] <ambro718> nope, neither of the 3 is installed
[15:49:03] <ambro718> try removing various --enable options
[15:49:13] <Amnesia> https://privatepaste.com/7e1b9a14bf
[15:49:16] <ambro718> be sure to wipe the entire build dir between tries
[15:49:18] <Amnesia> that's what I've got as we speak
[15:49:41] <ambro718> what exactly is the error?
[15:50:00] <Amnesia> just a sec, I'll have to rebuild:)
[15:58:53] <Amnesia> dafuq
[15:59:00] <Amnesia> aren't getting an error anymore
[15:59:12] <Amnesia> reminds me of KISS -.-