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[00:42:10] <Roklobsta> heh, i have experinced that with TI DSP compiler.
[00:42:15] <Roklobsta> bad code
[00:47:01] <N1njaneer> Heh, FAE already read my email :)
[03:59:48] * twnqx blames ambro718
[05:08:09] <twnqx> does avrdude work with the jtagice mk. 3
[05:08:11] <twnqx> ?
[05:10:11] <RikusW> don't think so
[05:10:19] <RikusW> the protocol is still undocumented
[05:11:22] <twnqx> damn
[05:11:43] <twnqx> why do all the vendors fuck their interested users by forcing them on crap windows
[05:17:47] <specing> not all
[05:17:47] <twnqx> name one that doesn't
[05:18:12] <specing> get a stellaris launchpad and you'll get a $13 board ($5 in the promotional period) that has an OpenOCD supported debugger on it
[05:18:27] <twnqx> i have one
[05:18:34] <specing> so use that?
[05:18:42] <twnqx> i disklike the msp430
[05:18:58] <specing> stellaris == ARM cortex-m
[05:19:04] <twnqx> ah
[05:19:14] <twnqx> is there oen with CAN onboard?
[05:19:28] <specing> Idk
[05:19:35] <twnqx> right, i have that small stellaris rolling robot
[05:20:33] <twnqx> and a TI tms570, which - of course - is not supported by anything except TI's windows software
[05:21:25] <twnqx> right, stellaris has no CAN
[05:21:52] <twnqx> but hey, motion control!
[05:22:14] <Roklobsta> if using avrdude the ftdi chips are good
[05:23:03] <Roklobsta> honestly whats so special about the avr jtag chain that it neds to be a trade secret?
[05:23:37] <twnqx> or the communication protocol with the prebuilt mk3
[05:23:59] <twnqx> just saw it on special over for 120€, would have bought it
[05:24:07] <twnqx> if i could use it.
[05:24:13] <twnqx> special offer*
[05:24:51] <specing> twnqx: I just checked, the chip on the launchpad has CAN support
[05:25:22] <twnqx> funny, so TI doesn't even bother to list that
[05:25:32] <specing> it is in the datasheet
[05:25:52] <specing> whole 50 pages
[05:34:07] <twnqx> hm. a bit less ram than my can at90 has, but i guess it should suffice
[05:34:15] <twnqx> (ihave external extra 32kB)
[05:35:30] <twnqx> interesting. thanks specing
[05:44:28] <specing> Except this RAM is about 10x faster
[05:44:39] <specing> and you have bit access to all of it
[05:45:57] <twnqx> and the cpu is 5x higher clocked, probably deeper pipelined, and wider :P
[06:41:01] <twnqx> argh
[06:41:06] <twnqx> decisions, decisions
[06:41:20] <twnqx> buy 2000 47µ capacitors on ebay for 30€
[06:41:38] <twnqx> or buy 10 for 6€50 from digikey
[06:41:42] <twnqx> when i need maybe 1-2
[06:43:22] <twnqx> the bloody reel is 330€ on digikey
[06:43:27] <twnqx> :X
[06:43:45] <RikusW> ripoff :/
[06:43:50] <twnqx> yeah
[06:44:00] <twnqx> so i considering the reel
[06:44:01] <twnqx> :/
[06:44:04] <twnqx> (from ebay)
[06:48:44] <specing> lol 2000 caps
[06:48:59] <specing> do you even realise how many caps that is?
[06:49:15] <RikusW> twnqx: so if you need a 100uF cap in future you'll just use 2 47uF ? :-P
[06:49:34] <specing> it'll be still an uncountable amount when your grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand children inherit it
[06:49:37] <twnqx> specing: one reel.
[06:49:47] <twnqx> and yes, i have an idea
[06:49:58] <twnqx> i once bough 1k 100nF decoupling caps, 0402
[06:50:15] <twnqx> and even of those i barely used 54 so far, according to bookkeeping
[06:50:16] <RikusW> how many is left now ?
[06:50:22] <RikusW> heh
[06:50:32] <RikusW> I used more 100nF caps (0603)
[06:50:43] <RikusW> maybe 300 now
[07:13:32] <dani> hi there
[07:13:36] <dani> i need some helpt
[07:13:40] <dani> help
[07:13:55] <Guest45168> i need also a few tips
[07:14:21] <Guest45168> what is the best way to create a communication between my ATMega32 and my PC?
[07:14:27] <specing> I need a girlfriend
[07:14:39] <specing> I mean a new computer, sorry
[07:16:46] <specing> Guest45168: you only have 4 options:
[07:16:50] <specing> a) serial
[07:16:55] <specing> b) i2c
[07:17:10] <specing> c) parallel port
[07:17:19] <specing> d) hacked up USB
[07:17:56] <Guest45168> I can't use and RS232
[07:18:02] <Guest45168> so which one is the easiest way?
[07:18:16] <damjan> "and" what?
[07:18:46] <Guest45168> sorry, withou "and"
[07:19:13] <damjan> USB is available on all PCs
[07:19:27] <damjan> but then it's a bit more complex on the AVR side
[07:19:50] <damjan> .. or you can add a usb-to-serial chip
[07:20:17] <Guest45168> this usb-to-serial chip is something like this?
http://www.gravitech.us/ftusbtouabrb.html
[07:21:42] <damjan> or this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-USB-2-0-to-TTL-UART-6PIN-Module-Serial-Converter-CP2102-STC-PRGMR-/251039347548?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a731c735c
[07:23:04] <specing> Guest45168: i2c is the next easiest
[07:23:42] <Guest45168> so the easiest one is to use usb-to-serial chip?
[07:23:54] <specing> yes
[07:24:09] <specing> you'll have to do level translation otherwise
[07:24:29] <specing> which is recommended even if you are doing usb-serial
[07:24:42] <Guest45168> do you know any tutorial that will help me with this?
[07:24:44] <specing> since the usb chip might give you and expect 3v3
[07:24:54] <specing> while your micro runs on 5v
[07:25:08] <specing> and you risk frying the chip if it is not designed to be tolerant
[07:25:11] <Tom_itx> specing, gf != pc
[07:25:17] <Tom_itx> not even close
[07:25:52] <specing> Tom_itx: yeah, gfs are unreliable, I guess
[07:26:22] <Tom_itx> needy
[07:26:56] <specing> and that
[07:30:07] <Guest45168> ok. let's say i will use this specing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-USB-2-0-to-TTL-UART-6PIN-Module-Serial-Converter-CP2102-STC-PRGMR-/251039347548?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a731c735c
[07:30:19] <Guest45168> what should i do next? how will I communicate?
[07:30:32] <Guest45168> Should i only send signals on RX and TX
[07:30:32] <Guest45168> ?
[07:30:47] <specing> Looks like Intel will be releasing haswell low-end lineup in september
[07:30:49] <specing> http://www.cpu-world.com/Releases/Mobile_CPU_releases_(2013).html
[07:32:39] <specing> Guest45168: get a ftdi unit
[07:32:56] <specing> atleast that seems to be the general recommendation around here
[07:33:52] <specing> I have a Prolific pl2303 converter connected to a custom line driver board
[07:34:13] <specing> but that is from a time when I didn't know about all this ftdi stuff or it was a bit hard to obtain
[07:35:32] <specing> Guest45168: read the chip's datasheet for features
[08:05:41] <ambro718> Guest45168: look up UART/USART in the datasheet for your AVR
[09:06:41] <mr_boo> is the Teensy 3.0 considered on topic for this channel?
[09:08:28] <mr_boo> seems like at least earlier Teensys are avr based
[09:16:00] <mr_boo> is it considered practical to do everything in the command prompt and edit the makefile or would you recommend the editor environment that comes with WinAVR=
[09:23:38] <RikusW> AAVR Studion is easy to use
[09:23:42] <RikusW> *Studio
[09:25:02] <specing> mr_boo: the former
[09:28:59] <OndraSter> Atmel Studio is awesome
[09:29:07] <OndraSter> if you can - use it
[09:29:15] <OndraSter> and ignore the shouts of command line people :P
[09:29:20] <OndraSter> they are 99% linux users :D
[09:50:29] <twnqx> ambro718: [uartirq 6e1a657] uart: switch to UDRE interrupts, some more 4 files changed, 86 insertions(+), 110 deletions(-)
[09:50:38] <twnqx> the new code is quite a bit shorter :P
[09:51:01] <ambro718> cool :)
[09:51:32] <twnqx> and i added a few things (forgot to set CTS) and made queue overrun detection comile time optional
[09:52:09] <twnqx> not that CTS matters if you have no code to ever receive anything in the first place.
[10:15:46] <twnqx> yey, something broke
[10:16:04] <twnqx> this said something involves an AVR uploading foreign code to another machine
[10:16:19] <twnqx> so i wonder how to figure out *what went wrong :P
[10:24:12] <braincracker> h
[10:42:15] <orb77> Hi all, i've just setup a willem clone programmer on my parallel port. Erased a Texas Instruments 27c040-10 and read it, instead of seeing all FF like I should for a blank chip I see all 90 - Just so I know which direction to go in, would this suggest the chip is faulty or the programmer / setup?
[12:21:37] <Anaphaxeton> i decided to explore the AVR world, so here i am!
[12:21:46] <Anaphaxeton> i have a 1st question
[12:22:16] <Anaphaxeton> does programming a microcontroller mean interacting directly with the h/w?
[12:22:30] <Anaphaxeton> in other words, no kernel?
[12:22:35] <Tom_itx> yup
[12:23:14] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[12:23:45] <N1njaneer> Pretty much, yeah.
[12:23:45] <Casper> Anaphaxeton: avr 8 bits have a very limited ressource, so no ressource for an OS
[12:24:03] <Tom_itx> oh sure there is !
[12:24:40] <Anaphaxeton> i read about the resources and i was wondering, where does everything fit? apparently it would be only my code that would fit! hehe
[12:24:57] <Casper> sure, you can have some tiny os, but no real ressource left for it...
[12:26:21] <Anaphaxeton> if i write something in C (which is the most probable case) will a static link to the avr libc and writing the binary to the AVR's memory do?
[12:26:52] <Tom_itx> yes
[12:26:59] <N1njaneer> The toolchain generally will do all that for you automatically :)
[12:27:05] <Casper> Anaphaxeton: also, flash is for the program. program don't get copied to ram (and actually the avr can not execute code in ram). The flash can be written 10000 times, in block of many bytes (like 32 bytes, want to write 1 byte? read all, modify, write). Take that into consideration if your code ever modify the flash (like for data storage)
[12:27:11] <N1njaneer> Just write your code in main() and away you go
[12:27:32] <Tom_itx> Anaphaxeton take a look at my how to
[12:27:32] <Casper> and yes, all will be statically linked, it's a single stand alone application
[12:28:06] <Anaphaxeton> Tom_itx, i am!
[12:31:56] <Casper> Anaphaxeton: you will also read "eeprom", that have 100000 write cycle, and on most avr you can write byte by byte, you usually put your config/data there. ex: programmable thermostat, the (saved) user settings will go there and of course you have sram, which of course have no write limit...
[12:33:39] <Anaphaxeton> will this
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225 program an AVR? i have one and it is hidden somewhere. i think it could
[12:36:31] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
[12:37:07] <Tom_itx> if it did, you'd have to have the software to drive it
[12:37:41] <Casper> just get one of tom's programmer :D
[12:38:10] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[12:38:29] <Tom_itx> those are widely used
[12:43:53] <ambro718> *don't* get a USBTiny. Those can't program devices with 128k or more flash.
[12:44:13] <Tom_itx> yeah the bit banged ones are kinda limited
[12:44:37] <ambro718> I got this from a loca lstore,
http://www.diamex.de/dxshop/DIAMEX-USB-ISP-Programmer-Stick-fuer-AVR
[12:44:53] <ambro718> works very fast
[12:45:31] <ambro718> much faster than USBtiny even (which I think I managed to fry)
[12:54:42] <Casper> yes! yes!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:54:45] <Casper> I did the impossible!
[12:54:54] <Casper> find back a lost reddit post!
[12:54:55] <Anaphaxeton> run windows on avr?
[12:54:59] <Anaphaxeton> ah
[12:55:22] <OndraSter> Anaphaxeton, he said impossible :P
[12:55:24] <Casper> from 8 months ago!
[12:55:42] <OndraSter> if you said natively... then it would be impossibru
[12:55:47] <Anaphaxeton> i have a jtag adapter too, couldnt i use that one?
[12:56:04] <Tom_itx> not all jtag is created equal
[12:56:18] <Tom_itx> you'd still have to find something that supported it
[12:56:19] <Anaphaxeton> hmmm
[12:56:34] <Anaphaxeton> you mean software?
[12:56:38] <Casper> http://vimeo.com/43442146 ← thaty is what I was looking for!
[12:56:38] <Tom_itx> yeah
[12:56:58] <Anaphaxeton> first let me find what my adapter is :p
[12:57:17] <Anaphaxeton> what i remember is that i bought it from Switzerland
[12:57:25] <Anaphaxeton> customs robed me
[12:59:25] <Casper> we should all start sending each other some stuff by mail, a circuit board, some wires, some battery and 2 metalic cylinders :D
[12:59:36] <Casper> with a "fragile" sticker
[13:00:19] <Tom_itx> they ask about batteries when shipping
[13:01:26] <Casper> bahh who care, it's nott he batt that I'm worried, it's the 2 cylinders :D
[13:02:46] <N1njaneer> Stick some christmas bulbs in to blocks of silly putty with coiled wires coming out!
[13:03:56] <Casper> lol silly putty that could be fun...
[13:04:18] <Casper> imagine the custom guy that xray it, see that, then the bomb squad checking it up lol
[13:04:46] <Casper> oh yeah! add some cans of eurethane foam too
[13:04:57] <Casper> so if they explode it, they get an HUUUUUUGE mess hehe
[13:07:30] <N1njaneer> And a can of Axe Body spray to make it smell nice
[13:10:19] <Casper> that custom insanity need to stop...
[13:11:01] <Casper> "oh it have electronics! it could be dangerous! let's open the package" "oh it contain a flash drive! let's check the content to be sure that there is no piracy!" ....
[13:13:17] <specing> I have a better idea
[13:13:34] <specing> we should send each other massive encrypted emails containing garbage
[13:13:45] <specing> that way the NSA will store it indefintely
[13:13:50] <specing> clogging their HDDs
[13:17:39] <OndraSter> fuck NSA
[13:17:40] <OndraSter> fuck customs
[13:17:47] <OndraSter> .. fuck girls?
[13:17:58] <OndraSter> fuck bad governments
[13:18:39] <specing> Implying there is a good government out there?
[13:19:01] <Anaphaxeton> what we need is a bullhsit injector for IP
[13:19:24] <Anaphaxeton> make ecelon etc ring a million times per second
[13:19:46] <OndraSter> specing, I had this awesome idea about starting a new coutnry
[13:19:49] <OndraSter> country
[13:19:58] <Anaphaxeton> you came second
[13:20:01] <OndraSter> ;D
[13:20:16] <Anaphaxeton> another guy said we should go to an island in the atlantic
[13:20:24] <OndraSter> too cold
[13:20:32] <Anaphaxeton> the atlantic?
[13:21:01] <OndraSter> it is a sea..
[13:22:25] <Anaphaxeton> so?
[13:22:48] <Anaphaxeton> is the Caribean cold?
[13:22:53] <Anaphaxeton> http://www.amontec.com/jtagkey-tiny.shtml
[13:22:58] <Anaphaxeton> this is my jtag
[13:23:14] <Anaphaxeton> obviously not good
[13:29:44] <bss36504> I own a JTAG ICE3. Is there a good way to run a LUFA project in debug mode without breaking the USB part?
[13:29:58] <abcminiuser> Nope; welcome to the world of USB
[13:30:06] <bss36504> haha thought so. thanks
[13:30:16] <abcminiuser> Breaking execution pretty much always kills the stack
[13:31:22] <bss36504> It certainly seems that way. I cant for the life of me figure out why my MSC device wont format. The low level drivers seem to be ok. I follow the same format as the Dataflash R/W functions for the USBKEY.
[13:31:43] <bss36504> Trying a fresh project with new drivers to see if I can get it working.
[15:27:19] <OndraSter> hmm how would you "safely" discharge in-circuit a flyback transformer from old CRTs?
[15:27:28] <OndraSter> some 10k - 100k resistor + relay?
[15:28:01] <Tom_itx> large screwdriver
[15:28:05] <OndraSter> well
[15:28:12] <OndraSter> if it would not be a CRT
[15:28:17] <OndraSter> but in some product
[15:28:38] <Tom_itx> what about a light bulb
[15:28:51] <OndraSter> at few tens of kV?
[15:28:55] <OndraSter> it would blow up
[15:29:00] <OndraSter> sure few uA
[15:29:04] <OndraSter> but still kV
[15:29:04] <Tom_itx> might be an awesome site
[15:29:16] <OndraSter> I was thinking some resistors + relay...
[15:29:20] <OndraSter> but I'd be scared of the arcing
[15:29:30] <OndraSter> afterall, few tens of kV
[15:30:40] <Tom_itx> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_discharge_a_flyback_transformer
[15:31:16] <OndraSter> ahaha
[15:31:19] <OndraSter> "you touch"
[15:31:46] <OndraSter> well that is how I test electricity in the house - throw down circuit breakers but to be sure I threw down the right ones I touch the wires
[15:31:54] <OndraSter> but 240V is nothing to 25kV
[15:32:06] <OndraSter> or whatever flybacks go to
[15:32:08] <OndraSter> (50kV?)
[15:32:11] <Tom_itx> http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/safety.htm
[15:32:37] <OndraSter> (long) well people usually stick a screwdriver into the anode in the CRT
[15:32:39] <OndraSter> but I can't do that
[15:32:47] <OndraSter> I want to build a HV supply for joy
[15:33:03] <OndraSter> with huge DISCHARGE safety red button
[15:33:05] <Tom_itx> get an old sign transformer and you got one
[15:33:14] <OndraSter> ehe
[15:33:15] <OndraSter> hehe
[15:33:17] <Tom_itx> i did
[15:33:20] <OndraSter> but that one does not have safety discharge either
[15:33:36] <Tom_itx> i stuck some wires on a board so the arc would climb up
[15:33:47] <OndraSter> jacob?
[15:33:50] <Tom_itx> yeah
[15:33:57] <OndraSter> I want to build a Lifter
[15:34:09] <OndraSter> but the person does not have a RED button to discharge it :(
[15:34:14] <Tom_itx> what's the difference?
[15:34:22] <OndraSter> between?
[15:34:33] <Tom_itx> a lifter and jacob ladder
[15:34:57] <OndraSter> lifter is ... a lifter. Electrostatically charged aluminium (tin? whatever - from chocolate for example) plates
[15:35:02] <OndraSter> lifted up by the charge
[15:35:09] <Tom_itx> oh
[15:35:20] <OndraSter> http://lifters.online.fr/lifters/hexalifter/index.htm
[15:35:58] <Tom_itx> would a sign transformer work for that?
[15:36:29] <OndraSter> how much does it output?
[15:36:38] <OndraSter> it requires zero current, but 21kV to lift up whatever he made
[15:36:50] <Tom_itx> i dunno, prolly 10-20kv
[15:37:13] <OndraSter> you can try..
[15:37:20] <Tom_itx> not sure i even still have it
[15:38:11] <Tom_itx> i think mythbusters did it
[15:38:31] <OndraSter> they did everything
[16:01:51] <RikusW> I know a guy who made a lifter and got bitten :-P
[16:03:33] <OndraSter> yourself RikusW ? :D
[16:05:10] <ambro718> is there some kind of assembly macro for store/load that will use ether sts/lds or out/in based on the register number?
[16:09:50] <RikusW> no, not me :)
[16:10:03] <Tom_itx> i'm not gonna make one even if i still have the transformer
[16:10:29] <RikusW> ambro718: not that I know of
[16:10:51] <RikusW> its quite annoying, and can cause huge bugs
[16:11:01] <RikusW> very hard to find...
[16:11:37] <RikusW> ambro718: in short registers below 0x40 is IO
[16:12:19] <ambro718> RikusW: yes but my code is C++ templates which take a register number as a template parameter and then use inline assembly, it's not feasible to hardcode such logic
[16:13:45] <ambro718> for example on the newer AVRs, TCCR0* is belor 0x40 but TCCR1* not, and my code should work with both
[16:14:26] <ambro718> ORC0 and OCR2 same stuff
[16:15:01] <ambro718> I know using sts will always work but inefficient ;)
[16:17:14] <RikusW> ambro718: here is some macros I used in AS4
http://pastebin.com/p6KkRBVN
[16:17:39] <ambro718> thanks
[16:17:43] <RikusW> should work in the AVR Studio 6 Assembler too
[16:17:59] <ambro718> though I'll need to rework it a bit to be usable in inline asm
[16:18:10] <RikusW> not sure if it will work with c++ inline stuff...
[16:18:23] <ambro718> I think it'll need %= all around
[16:21:44] <ambro718> RikusW: how can this macro work, don't you need 0x20 offset of sts/lds?
[16:22:27] <RikusW> in out addresses are from 0 to 3F
[16:22:39] <RikusW> memory mapped its 0x20 to 0x5F
[16:23:24] <RikusW> the high IO's are directly mapped to memory
[16:23:31] <ambro718> I think your input is a bit strange here, it seems like it's supposed to already include the +0x20 offset for the non-io stuff
[16:24:12] <RikusW> the asm includes does it that way
[16:24:22] <RikusW> the one I used anyways
[16:24:27] <Roklobsta> RikusW:
http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/FAQ.html#faq_port_pass
[16:26:23] <ambro718> well, I get my register number via _SFR_IO_ADDR() which gives me the mem address -0x20 (the mem address is also what the datasheed lists in parentheses). So I'll have to keep the original number for in/out but add 0x20 for lds/sts, is that right?
[16:28:06] <RikusW> check a few high registers
[16:28:23] <RikusW> but I suspect it will be memory addresses
[16:28:39] <RikusW> go look at the header files
[16:28:52] <ambro718> no, I've already played with it, _SFR_IO_ADDR() gives what I said it does
[16:29:29] <ambro718> the header files basically work with those "IO" addresses even for high registers
[16:29:51] <RikusW> compile a test case and run in simulator
[16:30:04] <RikusW> only way to know for sure
[17:36:02] <ambro718> what's the difference between T/C0 and T/C2 (normal mode, both OCA and OCB used)?
[17:36:19] <ambro718> I have some code which works with T/C2 but breaks with T/C0.
[17:36:37] <ambro718> I'm sure nothing else is interfering with the T/C. Very strange.
[17:43:08] <ambro718> hm, OCR0A is in I/O space but OCR2A is not. Since I use sts to write both, shouldn't that work even on OCR0A?
[18:10:34] <ambro718> hm, nope, I tried out, it's still broke
[18:18:25] <ambro718> ahm, it stupid datasheet. When talking about the T/C0 prescaler it refers me to T/C2, even though the actual prescaler table for T/C2 does not apply to T/0 - you're supposed to find the table in the register description part...
[19:59:36] <P3X018> What is C data type of AVR registers? Is it uint8_t ?
[20:00:07] <N1njaneer> Yep.
[20:00:22] <N1njaneer> Except the special-purpose ones, which are generally split across two bytes.
[20:01:21] <P3X018> Then it will be an int type?
[20:03:33] <N1njaneer> Yeah, though the AVR C libraries will generally take care of that for you. Like the baud-rate register UBRRnH/UBRRnL, you can just set by saying "UBRRn = 700;" or such :)
[20:04:03] <N1njaneer> Instead of having to specifically set both of them individually with masking and shifting;
[20:04:03] <P3X018> ok great
[20:14:05] <ambro718> no, it'd be an uint16_t
[20:14:30] <ambro718> at least I'm not aware of 16-bit registers exposed as signed
[20:18:46] <braincracker> <Casper> "oh it have electronics! it could be dangerous! let's open the package" "oh it contain a flash drive! let's check the content to be sure that there is no piracy!" .... < o, it looks like it contains only random bytes...
[20:20:13] <braincracker> OndraSter <= i suggest we crate a state named "zion" and move underground, what you think?
[20:22:10] <braincracker> <OndraSter> it requires zero current, but 21kV to lift up whatever he made < that thing watts about 5W/g of weight
[20:22:36] <braincracker> btw they call it aluminium foil and not chocolate paper, you buy it in rolls in tesco.