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[04:58:56] <megal0maniac> Can anyone tell me the advantages of learning to use an FPGA in the context of education? Does it help one understand stuff better? Can it be a good teaching tool if used properly?
[04:59:15] <megal0maniac> This is not my homework, this is just my general curiosity ;)
[04:59:32] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Have you done anything with that CPLD board yet?
[05:00:37] <RikusW> not yet
[05:00:57] <RikusW> steep learning curve
[05:01:43] <megal0maniac> Do you use VHDL as well?
[05:01:51] <RikusW> not yet
[05:01:54] * megal0maniac isn't really sure of the differences between FPGA and CPLD
[05:02:08] <RikusW> FPGA is more flexible than CPLD
[05:02:16] <RikusW> though the one I got seems like a hybrid
[05:02:33] <RikusW> have a look on wikipedia
[05:02:57] <RikusW> I'm still busy on tracking code, trying to manage too many different and unknown states....
[05:03:10] <RikusW> have unknowns isn't nice at all
[05:03:47] <RikusW> like one problem, if the battery is low its a bad idea to try and download AGPS data, but actually you need it most then...
[05:03:56] <RikusW> what to do ?... :/
[05:04:35] <RikusW> downloading it might cause the modem to autoshutdown due to low voltage
[05:04:44] <megal0maniac> I guess you'd have two thresholds. One for low battery and one for critical
[05:04:50] <RikusW> not downloading it cause the GPS to consume more power trying to get a fix
[05:05:11] <megal0maniac> Critical would demand more cow farts :)
[05:05:22] <megal0maniac> Or are you being boring and using li-ion? :P
[05:05:29] <RikusW> no builtin methane fuel cell :-P
[05:05:38] <RikusW> li-ion.. + solar cell
[05:05:49] <RikusW> 2000mAh
[05:06:14] <RikusW> and the netram 100mA 5V solar panel
[05:06:28] <RikusW> though it doesn't seem to give a full 100mA
[05:10:20] <specing> FPGAs suck in the context of education because there are no open tools for them
[05:10:22] <megal0maniac> I'd be amazed if it did
[05:11:08] <megal0maniac> specing: Our university is using PIC. Another one is using Freescale and another Renesas.
[05:11:40] <megal0maniac> At least the pickit isn't too pricey, but the others...
[05:14:51] <twnqx> specing: what do you mean, no open tools?
[05:14:55] <specing> PIC is not a FPGA?!
[05:15:02] <megal0maniac> specing: I know that
[05:15:17] <twnqx> open as open source, or open as free?
[05:15:35] <specing> twnqx: open as in you can look what they are doing = open source
[05:16:11] <twnqx> yeah, mapper/place&route are not open
[05:17:48] <specing> And since those are not open, I have no intention on spending $$ on it
[05:17:57] <specing> because it would be wasted money.
[05:18:06] <megal0maniac> Because the mapper/place&router are the equivalent on hardware design on a micro
[05:18:15] <specing> the most I did with FPGA is take a week-long uni course on them
[05:18:16] <megal0maniac> You don't have access to that either
[05:18:45] <specing> Yes
[05:18:57] <specing> and the difference is that I can't do anything usefull with the latter
[05:19:06] <specing> since it is hardwired and unchangeable
[05:28:34] <w|zzy> umm.. it's hard enough teaching fpgas let alone using open tools and Redding them how the routers/mappers work!
[05:28:43] <w|zzy> Redding = teaching
[05:29:27] <twnqx> you don't spend anything on fpga software
[05:29:33] <twnqx> every vendor gives out his for free
[05:29:42] <w|zzy> correct.
[05:29:51] <twnqx> also, there's no mystery as to how they work
[05:30:38] <w|zzy> I wouldn't want to pay with the router code without many many many years of experience coding fpgas.
[05:30:43] <twnqx> transfer source to RTL, transfer logic to EBNF, break down logic to small x input, y output, eventually +carry functions
[05:31:14] <twnqx> drop in cells, run an optimizing autorouter to connect them within the grid
[05:31:44] <twnqx> shuffle stuff around until design limits are reached or declared unreachable
[05:31:51] <twnqx> done
[05:34:57] <megal0maniac> twnqx: But do you stand to learn anything by using FPGAs, other than how to use an FPGA?
[05:35:42] <twnqx> difficult question :P
[05:36:05] <RikusW> you'll exercise your logic gate knowledge
[05:36:32] <twnqx> you learn logic design
[05:36:44] <twnqx> and the impact of latency vs. clockrate
[05:37:14] <specing> < twnqx> every vendor gives out his for free <= you mean the single-core unoptimised version?
[05:37:31] <twnqx> that ended long ago
[05:37:58] <w|zzy> very few have limits. at least not limits that someone worried about paying for the software cares about.
[05:38:14] <specing> we still used that software a year ago when I was on that course
[05:38:25] <twnqx> at least xilinx gives out 32/64bit versions these days
[05:38:40] <twnqx> hm, i never monitored the cpu load
[05:38:52] <w|zzy> yeah. xilinx software is pretty easy
[05:39:16] <specing> I don't care whether they are easy or not
[05:39:20] <specing> they are not open
[05:39:28] <specing> and that is a showstopper for me.
[05:39:42] <Amadiro> also, ISE takes like 10 minutes to compile a blink-led on my laptop
[05:40:09] <specing> YES
[05:40:24] <specing> because the free version is an unoptimised single-core one
[05:40:36] <megal0maniac> specing: Because it's designing the hardware as well
[05:40:37] <specing> pay those $5000 and you'll get the fast version
[05:41:38] <Amadiro> I don't think there is a faster version of ISE, really
[05:41:38] <Amadiro> its just slow
[05:41:43] <megal0maniac> "ISE WebPACK. design software is the industrys only FREE, fully featured front-to-back FPGA design solution for Linux, Windows XP, and Windows 7."
[05:41:49] <megal0maniac> That's new
[05:41:53] <Amadiro> it seemed to me like most of the time was wasted in their TCL scripts that invoke the various components like a billion times
[05:41:59] <w|zzy> it is slow.
[05:42:21] <Amadiro> but I didn't bother replacing it with my own build system
[05:43:47] <Amadiro> also, most of the components (xte or whatever their synth was called) have pretty atrocious startup times -- just starting it to open a shell takes like 15 seconds
[05:45:59] <twnqx> back in university, so. 10 years ago
[05:46:12] <twnqx> i used a Makefile to run all the commands without IDE
[05:46:36] <w|zzy> all the software was coffee and licenses cost 15k
[05:46:37] <w|zzy> ?
[05:46:53] <twnqx> dunno, it was sparc, and i wanted to work remotely
[05:47:19] <twnqx> heh, ise-7.1
[05:47:30] <twnqx> and synplify pro 7.7 as verilog compiler
[05:47:51] <twnqx> (or iverilog for home use, which generates linux executables for debugging)
[05:57:31] <Roklobsta> megal0maniac: yeah, Altera's is back-to-front
[05:58:04] <Roklobsta> who here was using c++ to control steppers?
[06:01:04] <theBear> rif has been recently i think, using some lib he found
[06:02:05] <theBear> don't think he comes here tho
[06:03:30] <Roklobsta> i can't rem
[06:04:10] <theBear> lol, try sleeping pills
[06:05:18] <Roklobsta> that's a bad Dad pun
[06:59:43] <Tom_itx> theBear, it's an 'arduino like' lib
[07:00:25] <theBear> Roklobsta, it was a bad joke... rem - phase of sleep
[07:06:51] <Tom_itx> http://webbot.org.uk/iPoint/30.page
[07:07:05] <Tom_itx> must be wonderful. it was on P3 of google search
[07:07:54] <Tom_itx> limited chip targets too
[07:09:25] <theBear> heh, you know rif, the reasons he likes things are a little different to us.... and he's convinced he's not good at programming which i think changes some stuff in his eyes
[07:09:37] <theBear> he may not be a programming ninja, but back in the day he got by fine
[07:10:02] <Tom_itx> he was using the hubbard lib back then
[07:10:16] <theBear> while yer here, been reading, litteraly on the verge of breaking the seal and doing avr stuff again.. was reading about usbasp just now....
[07:11:04] <theBear> first little question, has anyone done the mod mentioned in the readme and already added a usb-serial mode to the firmware/source ?
[07:11:16] <Tom_itx> no idea
[07:11:31] <theBear> fairy nuff :) 2nd one...
[07:11:36] <Tom_itx> i'm sure somebody has
[07:11:48] <Tom_itx> but it's big banged so it's gonna be slow
[07:12:21] <theBear> from your bloggy blog i gather you tend to put some usb-bootloader-programmer (ala arduino-style bootloader) when you playing with/making similar things to make self-update easy ?
[07:13:15] <Tom_itx> mine uses an avr usb chip which has a bootloader built in from atmel. i use the LUFA lib for the programmer part
[07:13:30] <Tom_itx> which uses the hardware usart and spi for programming
[07:13:48] <Tom_itx> and also doesn't do serial :)
[07:14:11] <Tom_itx> the chip will but with the way it's wired for the xmega and attiny chips it won't
[07:14:41] <Tom_itx> the little usb breakout board will
[07:15:06] <Tom_itx> and there's a lufa serial demo in his lib i believe
[07:15:12] <theBear> hmmm.... isn't 'your programmer' based on a usb avr ?
[07:15:26] <Tom_itx> it's where arduino got their code for the uno
[07:15:31] <Tom_itx> yes
[07:15:45] <Tom_itx> originally at90usb162
[07:15:46] <theBear> see, i'm not against them, but i don't have any, and thinking it'd just be convenient for my resuming avr stuff to have at least SOME usb programmer
[07:15:51] <Tom_itx> now atmega32u2
[07:15:52] <Tom_itx> same chip
[07:15:58] <theBear> ooh on reflection, i'll need SOME usb serial adapter too
[07:16:37] <Tom_itx> most still use the mini b
[07:16:49] <theBear> mini b?
[07:16:58] <Tom_itx> style of usb plug
[07:17:12] <Tom_itx> most phones have gone to the micro b
[07:17:38] <Tom_itx> cameras still use mini b i think
[07:18:24] <theBear> oh, that's kinda irrelevant, i'm talking about making a programmer from what i got lying around, which is at90s2313, tiny2313 (i pretty sure i got at least a couple of them) and tiny tiny 8pin something (obviously not for a programmer, well, maybe, but that's not the point) point is i got no usb avrs
[07:19:23] <Tom_itx> ladyada code will work on the tiny2313 as will the usbasp
[07:19:27] <theBear> and there's serial examples/code everywhere for vusb and similar, just like usbasp code is easily findable, if i got the program space i may well just graft them together with maybe a switch and a reset button myself
[07:19:36] <Tom_itx> with a 12Mhz crystal
[07:20:00] <theBear> ladyada eh ? interesting... so you weren't talking about a usbasp with builtin soft-usb bootloader in the blog ?
[07:20:15] <Tom_itx> no
[07:20:17] <theBear> spose it doesn't really matter, all i need is a programmer, if it works it works
[07:20:22] <Tom_itx> i made one of those early on though
[07:20:41] <theBear> well i need serial too, but my point is that bootloader is unimportant/unneeded
[07:21:11] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/usbtiny_programmer/testing_index.php
[07:21:23] <Tom_itx> those were usbasp / ladyada compatible
[07:21:33] <theBear> not serial on the same device, just that once i switch from this machine to my new core2, only the 'server' and the music-computer will have serial/parallel, andn they both not easy to access
[07:21:38] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[07:21:43] <Tom_itx> these are entirely different
[07:21:48] <theBear> tho on the same note, once i do that, i COULD make this one the workshop pc
[07:21:55] <theBear> workshop currently no pc
[07:22:16] <theBear> i THINK this got ports, i haven't played with micros since i got it a few years back :)
[07:22:41] <theBear> yeah, i wasn't looking at the usbtiny, and i was pretty sure they were usb-avr based
[07:22:57] <Tom_itx> bitbanged
[07:23:46] <theBear> you mean the non-native-usb avr ones, like that and ladyada and usbasp ?
[07:23:51] <Tom_itx> yes
[07:23:57] <Tom_itx> my first link
[07:23:57] <theBear> still, 5kb/s sounds at least as fast as parallel
[07:24:01] <theBear> still beter than nothing
[07:24:40] <Tom_itx> the 2nd link of mine will program ISP, PDI and TPI
[07:24:45] <theBear> forgive if i repeating... while i'm in less pain today (it's been a VERY bad week, maybe the worst yet) i am very drugged up
[07:24:47] <Tom_itx> basically all the 8 bit avrs
[07:25:37] <theBear> yeah yeah, i know yer sales line, and i do feel it's about as good as a programmer ever needs to be, but i'm on a budget, and a soft-usb programmer with already owned parts is as gooder first-in-a-few-years project as any
[07:25:48] <theBear> even if i don't write any code :)
[07:26:12] <Tom_itx> if i were closer i'd give you one of those
[07:26:20] <theBear> also i make my own boards and only have a few of those 8pin tinys and the 2313's of various ages/series, spi is all i know how to wire up <grin>
[07:26:29] <Tom_itx> those use the 2313
[07:26:38] <Tom_itx> and a buffer chip
[07:26:39] <theBear> aww, i appreciate it, but i ain't worried, it'd be nice to use the rif programmer one more time
[07:26:48] <Tom_itx> rif used the ver1 with no buffer chip
[07:27:00] <theBear> no no, my rif programmer is parallel
[07:27:05] <Tom_itx> i know
[07:27:09] <Tom_itx> i have one of them too
[07:27:09] <theBear> i think i got it when rue was in australia
[07:27:29] <Tom_itx> his avr one is the ladyada rev1 one
[07:27:41] <Tom_itx> with no buffer chip
[07:28:27] <Roklobsta> ggrrrr, latest firmware updater for my clone JTAG has a flippin' virus!
[07:28:32] <theBear> but that makes me think, add a header or parport adapter, i can use his buffer 'programmer' with a 2313 like say
http://www.8085projects.info/image.asp?picture=Self-made%20USB%20port%20ISP%20%282313%20Analog%20USB%29.jpg apart from a pin change or two is the same as usbasp and i'm guessing the same as ladyada
[07:28:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/dragon/dragon1.jpg
[07:28:51] <Tom_itx> like the one on the right there
[07:28:52] <theBear> still, all those years i used a 3 resistor programmer, i'm not 'worried' about buffers
[07:29:32] <OndraSter__> haha
[07:29:36] <OndraSter__> AVRs can take a lot
[07:30:01] <OndraSter__> just like midgets take bbc...
[07:30:27] <theBear> yeah, probly more than yer average parport on reflection :)
[07:30:52] <theBear> look at all those avr monkies, you don't exactly hear about their unresistored leds and relays and god knows what else killing single pins :)
[07:31:00] <theBear> avr->arduino sorry
[07:31:06] <theBear> seriously, that offends even me
[07:31:23] <theBear> heh yeah, that's a rif programmer on the right :)
[07:32:11] <RikusW> Roklobsta: how is that even possible ?
[07:32:15] <theBear> i got his sexy little max232 board too, and also 2 or 3 of those awesome boards taht make me forever feel terrible and indebted to you (tom) and him
[07:32:31] <RikusW> The fw is encrypted by Atmep
[07:32:32] <theBear> RikusW, i would guess firmware updater is a .exe
[07:32:32] <RikusW> l
[07:32:37] <Roklobsta> RikusW: i asked for an update and the lined .rar file made MSE choke
[07:32:41] <Roklobsta> linked
[07:33:01] <Roklobsta> i have a clone
[07:33:02] <OndraSter__> so I have received a SPAM today...
[07:33:07] <OndraSter__> CZECH spam even!
[07:33:10] <theBear> err, congratulations ?
[07:33:16] <OndraSter__> some dude (company) is offering me
http://www.ti.com/tool/adc12d1800rb
[07:33:17] <OndraSter__> for 1 month
[07:33:20] <OndraSter__> for free :P
[07:33:25] <Roklobsta> i got an sms saying I won some UK lottery the other day
[07:33:30] <theBear> heh someone said "check you spam folder" and that's what happened ? <biggrin>
[07:33:34] <OndraSter__> I think it might not be spam and might have arrived on my XBoard email even :D
[07:33:51] <Tom_itx> theBear, i 'one upped' his little rs232 board:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/rs232_2.jpg
[07:33:57] <Roklobsta> rikus: what do you mean atmel is encrypted?
[07:34:13] <Tom_itx> and yes i have one of his too :)
[07:34:33] <theBear> Tom_itx, tut tut, i didn't pick you as the competitive type <grin>
[07:34:37] <RikusW> Roklobsta: Atmel encrypts all their firmware updates
[07:34:56] <Roklobsta> why ar ethey so precious about their damned jtag protocol?
[07:35:02] <theBear> wow, that's a fancy a-d
[07:35:09] <inflex> lo there Tom_itx, theBear , RikusW and of course Roklobsta
[07:35:16] <inflex> ...and OndraSter__
[07:35:17] <RikusW> hi inflex
[07:35:19] <Tom_itx> hey inflex
[07:35:24] <Roklobsta> evening from the frickin' cold end of the country
[07:35:31] <inflex> hah
[07:35:39] <theBear> it's probably just a policy, make all updates/internal code encrypted for business reasons
[07:35:42] <Tom_itx> time to go
[07:35:44] <theBear> inflex :)
[07:35:56] <theBear> thanks tom :)
[07:35:56] <RikusW> inflex: just imagine all 147 people greeting you ;)
[07:36:41] <RikusW> theBear: its to keep people like me from disassembling it
[07:36:54] <inflex> Well, 146 would :)
[07:37:07] <RikusW> though the stk500 and jtagice mkii is decrypted on the PC before sending to the bootloader :)
[07:37:12] <RikusW> *mki
[07:37:25] <theBear> RikusW, well yeah "business reasons" :)
[07:37:42] <CapnKernel> inflex: Hi
[07:37:53] <inflex> lo there CapnKernel
[07:38:03] <RikusW> Steffanx even connected a JTAGICE to his dragon's jtag ports, lockbits was set :(
[07:38:05] <hackvana> Hi from me too. Wait, we're the same person. How confusement.
[07:38:12] * inflex just switched to a new laptop, took a little longer than planned :
[07:38:14] <theBear> we're the same person ?
[07:38:24] * theBear freaks out
[07:38:31] <CapnKernel> capnkernel is hackvana
[07:38:33] <hackvana> hackvana is capnkernel
[07:39:07] <theBear> so who am i ?
[07:40:10] <Roklobsta> anyway, bed time. it's coold
[07:41:44] <RikusW> OndraSter__: that ADC will saturate 10GB ethernet....
[07:47:52] <specing> < Roklobsta> why ar ethey so precious about their damned jtag protocol?
[07:48:00] <specing> What are they encrypting it with?
[08:42:09] <OndraSter_> RikusW, aye
[09:32:54] <RikusW> specing: the bootloader data is encrypted
[09:47:48] <megal0maniac> RikusW:
http://www.altera.com/education/training/curriculum/cpld/trn-cpld.html
[09:47:53] <megal0maniac> When you've got time :P
[09:48:41] <twnqx> cplds... light glue
[09:48:50] <RikusW> thanks
[09:51:04] <megal0maniac> twnqx: Most of the stuff pertains to both CPLD and FPGA. I must say, the course seems pretty comprehensive
[09:51:54] <twnqx> i think with FPGAs/CPLDs there is one thing you have to undertand
[09:52:00] <twnqx> RTL design
[09:52:06] <twnqx> and that's about it.
[09:52:34] <twnqx> you can't really learn partitioning of a problem from books
[12:40:11] <megal0maniac> h
[12:40:56] <Casper> h what... h-bridhe?
[12:40:59] <Casper> :D
[12:41:06] <Casper> ← a bit bored
[12:41:31] <Casper> (day 3 of his 14 days vacation... starting well isn't it? already bored)
[12:54:47] <megal0maniac> Casper: I'm on surprise uni holiday. Got back yesterday and found out classes only start next week. This week was for registration only :/
[12:55:02] <megal0maniac> So I feel your pain. I'm in week 7
[12:56:55] <mr_boo> is the getchar() routine a standard function relating to the usart function of most avrs?
[13:02:38] <Casper> megal0maniac: atleast I can do stuff!
[13:02:41] <Casper> like take pics
[13:02:51] <Casper> http://www.flickr.com/photos/93694432@N04/9337302957/in/set-72157634742035890/ ← like that one
[13:08:47] <mr_boo> Casper: where is that place?
[13:09:44] <megal0maniac> Casper: Me too!
[13:09:54] <megal0maniac> Nice pic :)
[13:16:02] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/NgTATZh.jpg
[13:16:12] <megal0maniac> I raise you one rhino
[13:16:20] <megal0maniac> Casper: ^
[13:16:49] <megal0maniac> Or some frolicking zebras
http://i.imgur.com/0a3WbEf.jpg
[13:16:58] <megal0maniac> Or a teeny tiny frog :D
http://i.imgur.com/fE6TdHI.jpg
[13:17:04] <Lt_Lemming> welp... I've turned to the dark side... designing my first board based around an ARM chip atm :-D
[13:17:06] <mr_boo> Casper: where are the photographs taken?
[13:17:29] <mr_boo> Lt_Lemming: i've ordered a Teensy 3.0
[13:17:38] <megal0maniac> Lt_Lemming: It's okay. Atmel makes ARM chips too
[13:17:43] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/LcM4TJY.jpg <--- better tiny frog pic
[13:17:51] <Lt_Lemming> megal0maniac, using an STM32 :-P
[13:18:10] <Lt_Lemming> I think my frogs probably actually tinier as well
[13:18:21] <megal0maniac> :(
[13:18:30] <megal0maniac> Well at least mine is real :P
[13:18:43] <Lt_Lemming> so is that one
[13:18:51] <megal0maniac> Did you take it?
[13:18:56] <Lt_Lemming> mate of mine did
[13:19:02] <Lt_Lemming> but we get frogs that size
[13:19:13] <megal0maniac> Nice
[13:19:26] <megal0maniac> We don't, which is why I had to take a picture when I saw it
[13:19:35] <Lt_Lemming> my mums place had eggs laid near it a few years back, every night for about a month the house would get INVADED by baby frogs
[13:20:07] <megal0maniac> Hah :) Awesome
[13:20:45] <Lt_Lemming> sure... excepty they are small enough they get stuck in fluff... and then they die and weeks later you find dried out frog husks around the place
[13:21:16] <megal0maniac> Gross
[13:21:20] <megal0maniac> Supper time!
http://imgur.com/a/48vfh
[13:26:22] <antto> pics eh?
[13:26:44] <Lt_Lemming> indeed
[13:26:45] <Lt_Lemming> speaking of pics
[13:26:46] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/mKF5N6U.jpg <--- the board I am working on
[13:26:48] <antto> http://i.imgur.com/1XUkN.jpg
[13:27:29] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[13:27:29] <Lt_Lemming> nice
[13:28:39] <antto> and
http://i.imgur.com/ZivRW.jpg ;P~
[13:28:53] <Lt_Lemming> your kitty I take it?
[13:29:02] <antto> yeah
[13:29:14] <antto> Bianka ;P~
[13:29:31] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/4xtvAvt.jpg <--- Merida
[13:30:06] <antto> nice suit ;]
[13:30:13] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[13:30:22] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/CbYKT0H.jpg <--- how I often get worken up in the morning
[13:31:38] <antto> ;]
[13:33:31] <antto> http://i.imgur.com/lUN8QWR.jpg
[13:33:34] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[13:41:29] <megal0maniac_afk> antto: What camera/lens is that? It looks amazing
[13:45:04] <Lt_Lemming> mmm, that's some pretty amazing pixels
[13:48:25] <megal0maniac> Looks filtered
[13:48:31] <antto> Sony SLT a55 with a 50mm Minolta f1.7
[13:48:42] <megal0maniac> Prime lens?
[13:48:45] <antto> yup
[13:48:52] * megal0maniac drools
[13:48:58] <megal0maniac> f1.7...
[13:49:03] <antto> i got a kit lense too, but it's nothing like the minolta ;]
[13:49:09] <megal0maniac> antto: You can go away now
[13:49:14] <antto> hahaha
[13:49:56] <megal0maniac> Good composition though. I can't hold it against you if you can actually take a decent pic
[13:51:02] <megal0maniac> I've got a minolta too, but it's film.
[13:53:12] <antto> http://i.imgur.com/8xzYA.jpg
[13:54:54] <Lt_Lemming> heh, nice
[13:55:04] <Lt_Lemming> Merida's currently asleep on the foot stool under my desk between my foot
[13:55:13] <Lt_Lemming> probably has something to do with it being 6°C here atm
[13:56:43] <megal0maniac> antto: Very nice :)
[14:02:03] <megal0maniac> RikusW:
http://i.imgur.com/4vuinWn.jpg
[14:02:34] <RikusW> pickup and rhino contest ?..
[14:03:54] <megal0maniac> :)
[14:04:23] <megal0maniac> RikusW: It was a private reserve. The only time a car is in the enclosure is when it's time for food, so they like the car. This one had an itchy horn
[14:05:31] <RikusW> ah
[14:05:39] <megal0maniac> antto:
http://i.imgur.com/iV8nfRm.jpg
[14:05:40] <megal0maniac> :D
[14:05:56] <RikusW> like cattle going after a pickup truck with salt on it ;)
[14:08:18] <megal0maniac> http://i.imgur.com/ccAqQei.jpg
[14:08:26] <antto> nice
[14:08:54] <twnqx> antto: why to you have pictures of my cat!
[14:09:00] <twnqx> do*
[14:09:14] <antto> i don't!
[14:09:15] <megal0maniac> My friend named his cat Mouse
[14:09:35] <Lt_Lemming> my old cat was named PC
[14:10:09] <megal0maniac> I call my girlfriend's rabbit Mouse. She doesn't like it but I don't care :)
[14:10:43] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[14:11:29] <Lt_Lemming> bleh, I really need to stop procrastinating and finish these traces
[14:13:00] <OndraSter_> I don't have a gf.
[14:13:19] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: Do you have a cat?
[14:13:23] <megal0maniac> Or a bunny?
[14:13:25] <OndraSter_> none
[14:15:10] <megal0maniac> Then you'd be half way there :)
[14:17:33] <OndraSter_> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/1070088_10151806800573343_311569148_n.jpg
[14:17:36] <OndraSter_> who can recognize them?
[14:20:08] <antto> are those from some boy-band?
[14:21:26] <megal0maniac> No idea
[14:21:39] <megal0maniac> Armin van Buuren maybe?
[14:25:06] <megal0maniac> And Tiesto
[14:25:21] <megal0maniac> And Ferry Corsten
[14:27:30] <twnqx> you seem pretty much into electronicmusic to know these names
[14:27:47] <megal0maniac> Not so much
[14:27:58] <megal0maniac> I cheated. Reverse image search
[14:36:14] <antto> cheatz0r
[14:48:02] <mr_boo> when generating an interrupt from within the same interrupt service routine does that increase the risk of stack overflow?
[15:09:33] <Roklobsta> hmmm i have a doozy of a bug. somehow somewhere my code turns off global interrupt. disaster.
[15:10:13] <twnqx> pfff
[15:10:25] <twnqx> you just failed to declare an interrupt handler as interrupt handler
[15:10:37] <twnqx> so it's not reenabled automatically
[15:11:40] <Roklobsta> nono
[15:11:46] <Roklobsta> i am sure that's not it
[15:14:11] <Roklobsta> but in hunting this bug down i found i was double handing serial interrupts which is now fixed. santo stupido
[15:36:31] <Roklobsta> hmmm, I can't blame the debugger or compiler. One usually never can. It's a total PEBKAC.
[15:38:21] <Roklobsta> I had a glocbal Ser0 and a local Ser0, the glbal was initilised but the local was not. same namespace, function uses the local uninitialised copy.
[15:38:35] * Roklobsta facepalms.
[15:40:17] <Roklobsta> twnqx: all my cli()'s had matching sei()s and the IRQs are all declared properly
[16:40:07] <Lt_Lemming> http://i.imgur.com/JyvtWC0.jpg <---- all done routing the tedious bits
[16:43:03] <antto> whut is that gonna be?
[16:43:59] <Lt_Lemming> system to let people know when the local hackerspace is occupied
[16:44:14] <Lt_Lemming> wehn someone walks in the door they set a time using the rotary encoder in the middle
[16:45:16] <Lt_Lemming> it tweets/emails/IRC's out "space is open for X hours till X time"
[16:46:49] <antto> O_o
[16:47:10] <antto> i guess you come from the future *shrug*
[16:48:49] <twnqx> Lt_Lemming: what software did you use for this?
[16:49:08] <Lt_Lemming> Fritzing
[16:50:30] <twnqx> never heard of that
[16:51:05] <Lt_Lemming> it's pretty simplistic
[16:51:11] <twnqx> doesn't look elegant, after all :P
[16:51:22] <Lt_Lemming> trying to learn Altium, but it's a steep learning curve
[16:51:25] <twnqx> use round traces for something like that!
[16:51:36] <Lt_Lemming> twnqx, yeah I tried, didn't work so well in this
[16:51:44] <Lt_Lemming> and I think I still did pretty damned well!
[16:52:37] <twnqx> i'd have changed the io connections to stop need for the crossovers :P
[16:52:47] <Lt_Lemming> eh?
[16:53:06] <twnqx> as in, not seperate r,g,b per driver, but use driver -> r1,g1,b1,r2,g2,b2 etc
[16:53:15] <twnqx> assuming i am guessing right about the LEDs
[16:53:37] <Lt_Lemming> the reason I did that was so you can populate the board as single colour if you want to
[16:54:06] <twnqx> to save drivers, hmm
[16:54:28] <Lt_Lemming> the driver chips are like $6 each]
[16:54:51] <twnqx> wow, use a µC with more IO and no drivers :P
[16:55:25] <Lt_Lemming> those drivers are 12 bit PWM per channel, 24 channels, current limiting, 15MHz serial bus
[16:55:39] <Lt_Lemming> I'd need a pretty fucking serious µC to match that
[16:56:09] <twnqx> the question would be... do you need it :>
[16:56:29] <Lt_Lemming> I don't, but someone else might
[16:56:34] <twnqx> software defined PWM, 72 channels
[16:56:36] <Lt_Lemming> the board isn't designed just for me
[16:56:57] <twnqx> current limiting is just failure resilience, and the serial bus stops to matter
[16:57:55] <twnqx> but yeah, generally, it's ok
[16:58:28] <twnqx> guess having a sense of aesthetics with PCBs is stupid anyway :X
[16:58:35] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[16:58:57] <Lt_Lemming> not really, I could have done that a lot less neat than I did
[16:59:05] <tzanger> heh
[16:59:30] <twnqx> you do want to add more bypass caps (unless they exist on an invisble other side) though
[16:59:42] <twnqx> especially for the drivers
[17:00:13] <twnqx> or you risk that it won't work
[17:00:16] <Lt_Lemming> haven't put them in yet
[17:00:22] <Lt_Lemming> but there is space for them
[17:02:43] <twnqx> also, around LED 13 the ground plane is broken - i'd move the via :P
[17:03:20] <twnqx> (yes, i'm that pedantic with my own PCBs)
[17:03:25] <Lt_Lemming> there's no ground plane in that image....
[17:03:40] <twnqx> why are there different shades of green then?
[17:04:01] <Lt_Lemming> light green is connected pins
[17:04:08] <Lt_Lemming> the darker green is the PCB
[17:04:28] <twnqx> on the lower right pin of led13 is en even darker green
[17:04:51] <Lt_Lemming> oh yeah, I that is just where my cursor was when I took the screenshot so it was highlight the trace
[17:05:39] <twnqx> ah, lol
[17:06:24] <twnqx> well, i'd remove tons of unnessary bends, but again, just me
[17:06:44] <Lt_Lemming> heh
[17:06:54] <twnqx> i even have a v1.1 of a pcb on my hdd that will never be produced since i have the v1.0 manufactured and working
[17:07:12] <Lt_Lemming> hah, I have about 50 boards like that dude :-P
[17:07:29] <twnqx> but there were - in retrospect - one place where the ground plane could be closed better
[17:07:29] <Lt_Lemming> I have more projects than I care to count in my folders
[17:07:42] <twnqx> and a free realigned traces
[17:09:10] <twnqx> i still want to do a sam3x :X
[17:09:26] <twnqx> just can't find open source programming (flashing) tools
[17:22:33] <TechIsCool> I have a question is this return (PINC&(1<<4)) the same as this in terms of what it returns? return PORTC.IN & PIN6_bm;
[17:22:50] <TechIsCool> other than the pins being different?
[17:49:03] <twnqx> TechIsCool: not sure what that portc.in is, but you read portb and return the value of pin 4 on that port, yes
[17:49:19] <TechIsCool> portc.in is xmega not mega
[17:49:27] <TechIsCool> I googled it and solved it
[17:49:41] <TechIsCool> they are the same I just was writting it wrong
[17:49:43] <twnqx> portc.in should be a kind of different language :P
[17:50:00] <twnqx> though i guess you *could* arrange ports in structs...
[17:50:23] <TechIsCool> true
[17:50:40] <TechIsCool> I find it easier to read not sure if thats a good thing or bad thing
[17:57:21] <twnqx> it's more expressive
[21:31:46] <Roklobsta> urg debugging with JTAG is so painful
