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[07:15:58] <Badaboom> morning
[07:18:57] <braincracker> yo
[07:19:09] <braincracker> booom
[07:19:28] <Badaboom> yo
[07:19:55] <theBear> boooom
[07:19:55] <braincracker> morning atmel hacking?
[07:20:19] <Badaboom> lol naa taking it easy this morning
[07:20:37] <Badaboom> But i do want to fix my usbtiny today
[07:20:53] <Badaboom> well, my attempted usbtiny
[07:21:49] <Badaboom> So rather than using the 2 zener diodes i used 4 1n4148's and i think thats the problem
[07:25:29] <theBear> err, for what voltage ?
[07:25:37] <Badaboom> yes, the drop
[07:25:45] <theBear> no, what voltage ?
[07:25:52] <Badaboom> 3.6
[07:26:08] <theBear> and what is .6*4 ?
[07:26:22] <Badaboom> .7
[07:26:34] <theBear> err no, it's 2.4, ffs !
[07:26:43] <Badaboom> on each line
[07:26:49] <Badaboom> .7 x 2
[07:27:31] <Badaboom> I thought the vdrop is .7 on the 4148
[07:27:53] <Badaboom> well i can be from 3.3 to 3.7
[07:28:09] <Badaboom> err 3.6
[07:28:09] <theBear> one of us isn't making sense, and it's not me
[07:28:36] <Badaboom> if you have .6 voltage drop x 2 it =?\
[07:29:08] <Badaboom> err .7 sorry
[07:29:16] <Badaboom> 1.4?
[07:29:18] <theBear> .7*2 = 1.4
[07:29:25] <theBear> that's not 3.6, or 3.3 or 3.7 !@
[07:29:27] <Badaboom> so 5v - 1.4?
[07:29:40] <theBear> you said 3.6
[07:29:42] <theBear> not 1.4
[07:29:54] <theBear> i need a fucking smoke !
[07:29:58] <Badaboom> lol
[07:30:18] <Badaboom> 5v down to 3.6v via 2 drops of .7
[07:30:21] <theBear> only to calm me down from your nonsense, not because i'm the one not making sense
[07:30:32] <Badaboom> a zener normaly does this
[07:30:39] <theBear> a 1.4v zener ?
[07:30:45] <Badaboom> are you stoned?
[07:30:50] <theBear> i need a fucking cigarette !
[07:30:54] <Badaboom> Im making perfect sense
[07:31:10] <Badaboom> Your over complicating it
[07:31:15] <theBear> no you aren't, you're among other things assuming that i know the schematic you are referring to
[07:31:35] <Badaboom> ok,, take 5vUSB to 3.6v
[07:31:45] <nevdull> resistive divider
[07:32:00] <Badaboom> nevdull, yes
[07:32:09] <nevdull> or put 3 or so 4014 diodes inline
[07:32:29] <Badaboom> ty:)
[07:33:05] <Badaboom> series?
[07:33:09] <Badaboom> right
[07:33:11] <nevdull> yeah
[07:33:14] <Badaboom> rgr
[07:33:33] <nevdull> i think 4011 of 918 drops like .6v across it
[07:33:48] <Badaboom> k
[07:34:03] <Badaboom> you meant or?
[07:34:09] <nevdull> although you'll dissipate the energy as heat more than you would with a voltage divider
[07:34:14] <nevdull> yes, sorry...s/of/or
[07:34:18] <Badaboom> lol
[07:34:56] <Badaboom> i also think as my resistors go i need to go with 68k's as opposed to the 27ks i have
[07:35:10] <Badaboom> It specifies from 27 to 68
[07:35:38] <Badaboom> My guess is for ringing but im not sure on this one
[07:36:08] <nevdull> as long as they're rated for the power you're putting thru them it's probably a wash.
[07:36:17] <nevdull> what are you building?
[07:36:45] <Badaboom> Fixing the problems on my USBtiny i attempted:)
[07:36:51] <nevdull> gotcha ;)
[07:37:20] <Badaboom> Kept coming up on the comp as device failure..lol
[07:37:31] <nevdull> what's the fcpu you're using?
[07:37:54] <Badaboom> Ill have to look, it's been a while
[07:38:06] <Badaboom> Ill open studio
[07:38:14] <nevdull> i mean like what's the system clock frequency? 16Mhz? 20MHz? 8MHz?
[07:38:16] <Badaboom> oh wait, 12MHZ external
[07:38:26] <Tom_itx> usbtiny doesn't work in studio does it?
[07:38:44] <Badaboom> Tom: no you have to compile the file tho
[07:38:54] <nevdull> tom_itx: i think lady ada has a bootloader that will emualte the AVRISP mkII
[07:39:27] <Badaboom> Ive had it lying here and thought ide attempt to fix it
[07:39:44] <Tom_itx> i got a pile of those lying around
[07:39:46] <theBear> i apologise for losing my temper, but i need a f&^king cigarette ! <afk until further notice>
[07:39:55] <Tom_itx> the ole bit banged usb ones
[07:39:57] <Badaboom> np bear
[07:40:07] <Tom_itx> habbits.
[07:40:13] <nevdull> nuns wear them
[07:40:13] <Badaboom> lol
[07:40:19] <Tom_itx> they get in the way
[07:41:41] <Badaboom> nevdull: does that stand for never a dull moment?
[07:41:57] <nevdull> Badaboom: no it's a joke on /nev/dull
[07:42:00] <Tom_itx> alwaysharp
[07:42:07] <Badaboom> ahh:)
[07:45:04] <Badaboom> No flying today, plane is down south 2 hours from here getting fixed:(
[07:45:18] <nevdull> you're a pilot?
[07:45:27] <Badaboom> Yes,, Private only
[07:45:38] <nevdull> very cool
[07:45:43] <Badaboom> :)
[07:46:05] <Badaboom> PIE or St. Pete/Clearwater Airport
[07:46:16] <Badaboom> It's near Tampa, Florida
[07:46:45] <nevdull> there was a plane that made an emergency landing on the golf course next to campus the other day
[07:46:55] <Badaboom> oh really?
[07:47:17] <nevdull> yes, i didn't read or hear that anyone was hurt but it weird seeing it there
[07:47:33] <Badaboom> Actually...
[07:47:54] <Badaboom> My instructor always told me look for a golf course if u have a problem
[07:48:07] <nevdull> haha really?
[07:48:11] <Badaboom> Nice long fairway
[07:48:17] <nevdull> aah i can see that
[07:48:19] <Badaboom> Oh yes, that or a highway
[07:48:38] <Badaboom> Anything clear and long:)
[07:48:58] <Badaboom> Oh and No wires:
[07:49:13] <nevdull> i got my air combat wings in an SH-3H sikorsky in iraq, panama, and the philippines but helicopters are far and away from planes
[07:49:29] <Badaboom> I love Helis
[07:49:36] <Badaboom> Absolutely LOVE
[07:49:49] <nevdull> they're fun
[07:50:02] <Badaboom> Ive flown a Bell206lr
[07:50:20] <Badaboom> long ranger
[07:50:34] <nevdull> is that single or twin engine?
[07:51:34] <Badaboom> Dual
[07:51:43] <Badaboom> I think
[07:51:52] <Badaboom> It was a one time thing
[07:51:57] <nevdull> it's a nice bird
[07:52:15] <Badaboom> My friend works on them at a place i was doing touch and goes at
[07:52:58] <nevdull> ah cool
[07:53:08] <Badaboom> We have the Coast Guard station here j-hawks
[07:53:19] <Badaboom> Blackhawks
[07:53:24] <Badaboom> well converted
[07:53:55] <nevdull> yah hot and black
[07:54:28] <Badaboom> lol
[07:55:46] <Badaboom> wait seaking?
[07:56:05] <nevdull> yep
[07:56:08] <Badaboom> NICE
[07:57:01] <braincracker> a few cars... does not matter, it's clear :)
[07:57:09] <Badaboom> lool
[07:57:19] <nevdull> yah when i first came on the main pilot said "oh don't worry about any tubes spurting oil or other fluid...but do tell me if they stop!"
[07:57:30] <Badaboom> braincracker: i was always told, theyll get out of the way:)
[07:57:38] <braincracker> hahaha
[07:57:42] <Badaboom> lol
[07:57:56] <braincracker> "if they have time, and not busy phoning, and setting the gps"
[07:58:03] <Badaboom> Definitly not Marine One:)
[07:58:37] <braincracker> or tidying the baby on the other seat
[07:58:46] <nevdull> hah nope navy designation although i was in the USMC detached to them as the door gunner
[07:59:02] <Badaboom> Very Cool
[08:00:48] <Badaboom> You know what we have at the base here right?
[08:00:55] <Badaboom> SATCOM
[08:00:55] <nevdull> what's that?
[08:00:59] <nevdull> aaah
[08:01:01] <Badaboom> :)
[08:01:31] <Badaboom> alot of people don't realize that
[08:02:28] <Badaboom> MacDill
[08:03:42] <Badaboom> braincracker: or the makup
[08:04:30] <braincracker> but a 747"s engine wind blows away cars ;>
[08:04:42] <Badaboom> lol
[08:04:56] <Badaboom> No No,, try a C5:)
[08:05:14] <braincracker> i don't fly those, was just example
[08:05:17] <Badaboom> imagine little suzi going Mommy,, whats that
[08:05:49] <Badaboom> c5 engine = swallow an SUV whole
[08:06:10] <Badaboom> Itll damage the engine of course:)
[08:06:41] <specing> suicidal engines...
[08:07:15] <Badaboom> first time i saw a C5 i was at the base when i was knee high to a grasshopper
[08:08:51] <Badaboom> nevdull: up at Pensacola out at Eglin AFB they had the ac130-s praticing
[08:09:02] <Badaboom> Now thats a sight
[08:09:10] <nevdull> Badaboom: oh yah? was it nice?
[08:09:26] <Badaboom> all you see is a poof,, then BAM
[08:09:31] <nevdull> haha
[08:09:31] <Badaboom> tank gone'
[08:09:56] <Badaboom> turret poped up like a jumping jack
[08:10:29] <Badaboom> I love the power of the 130's
[08:10:36] <nevdull> yeah it packs a punch
[08:10:42] <Badaboom> yes it does
[08:11:33] <Badaboom> I was out on the beach by the tower at Eglin and every time i looked up all u see isthat damn thing circling...poof poof
[08:11:59] <Badaboom> then low rumble in the distance
[08:12:07] <nevdull> which guns was it firing?
[08:12:45] <Badaboom> umm 40
[08:13:18] <nevdull> i've seen them firing 25mm and 105mm but not 40mm before. that'd be fun to see.
[08:13:29] <Badaboom> i think the 105mm as well
[08:13:41] <Badaboom> oh yeah they do have 40mm
[08:14:01] <nevdull> i'm used to the 40mm fired out of m203's ;)
[08:14:09] <Badaboom> lol
[08:15:14] <Badaboom> We have a range not far from here that pretty much anything goes:)
[08:15:20] <Badaboom> and i do mean anything
[08:15:25] <nevdull> yah, that's fun
[08:15:35] <Badaboom> The local sherrif is a friend of the family:)
[08:16:09] <nevdull> haha sweet :)
[08:16:12] <Badaboom> Theres a bombing range up in the Ocala forest we frequent as well
[08:16:22] <Badaboom> oops:)
[08:16:22] <nevdull> collecting brass? ;)
[08:16:26] <Badaboom> Yes
[08:16:30] <Badaboom> but..
[08:16:46] <Badaboom> You have to be carefull of the unexploded
[08:17:02] <nevdull> yeah for sure.
[08:17:16] <Badaboom> I remember as a kid shooting bb guns at them
[08:17:45] <Badaboom> Think i almost gave the Grandfather a heart attack
[08:17:50] <nevdull> lol
[08:18:04] <Badaboom> He was army
[08:18:51] <Badaboom> Munitions , i think with Dupont at the time
[08:19:00] <Badaboom> or the Dupont facility
[08:19:26] <nevdull> where they make kevlar?
[08:19:39] <Badaboom> at the time it was more like Gas
[08:19:56] <Badaboom> among the few chemicals
[08:20:08] <nevdull> like NBC warfare gas?
[08:20:14] <Badaboom> yes
[08:20:19] <nevdull> yikes
[08:20:45] <Badaboom> yeah, i always thought he just did munitions and later on found differently
[08:21:02] <Badaboom> Grandmother pulls me aside one day
[08:21:10] <Badaboom> Long after he died
[08:21:15] <nevdull> i sweat my ass off in full MOPP posture in iraq for months. i wouldn't care to repeat it. i'd rather get gassed heh
[08:21:26] <Badaboom> lmao
[08:21:32] <Badaboom> No doubt
[08:22:17] <nevdull> i still have a box of atropine chloride injectors in my alice pack somewhere packed down in my med kit
[08:22:32] <Badaboom> wow
[08:22:35] <nevdull> not sure why, but you never know when the zombie apocolypse will happen...
[08:22:40] <Badaboom> lol
[08:24:39] <Badaboom> what no PT this morning?
[08:25:03] <nevdull> my PT starts at 0500 and i'm done by 0630
[08:25:08] <Badaboom> nice
[08:25:16] <Badaboom> oh god you said 0500
[08:25:31] <nevdull> oh-dark-thirty ;)
[08:25:35] <Badaboom> lmfao
[08:25:46] <Badaboom> I thought i was the only one
[08:26:00] <nevdull> haha 24hr time is just so much more convenient and expressive, imo
[08:26:11] <Badaboom> EXACTLY
[08:28:00] <Badaboom> Now i have the need to play battlefield3
[08:28:03] <Badaboom> lol
[08:28:07] <nevdull> lol
[08:28:57] <Badaboom> Used to land the Harrier on the crane in BF2
[08:29:04] <Badaboom> Freak ppl out
[08:29:13] <nevdull> jump jets rock
[08:29:21] <Badaboom> Yessir
[08:29:32] <Badaboom> -as
[08:30:01] <Badaboom> I don't know too many people that dont like it
[08:30:26] <Badaboom> I always like the A6 for some reason
[08:30:29] <Badaboom> older i know
[08:30:57] <Badaboom> But after the movie about them i just did
[08:31:02] <nevdull> yeah, they're very distinctive
[08:31:10] <Badaboom> yep
[08:31:33] <nevdull> plenty of them flying out of MCAS cherry point when i was a range officer at camp lejeune
[08:31:42] <Badaboom> Nice
[08:32:16] <Badaboom> Now the A10's.. good god
[08:33:08] <nevdull> yeah, my fav is the f35
[08:33:13] <Badaboom> ahh
[08:33:22] <Badaboom> Newer
[08:33:24] <nevdull> i just love the shape of them
[08:33:31] <Badaboom> Yeah, there neat
[08:34:09] <nevdull> and that new-ish plane that has two big rotors that rotate up and down allowing it virtical ascent/descent, then rotates forward to fly like a plane?
[08:34:11] <Badaboom> Damn things are gonna replace the Jumpjets:(
[08:34:13] <nevdull> i can't remember its name
[08:34:17] <nevdull> yeah they are
[08:34:23] <Badaboom> Osprey?
[08:34:40] <Badaboom> Its the Osprey
[08:34:46] <nevdull> yeah that's it
[08:34:53] <Badaboom> :)
[08:35:10] <Badaboom> Thats a crazy ass plane
[08:35:17] <Badaboom> But..
[08:35:37] <Badaboom> very stable on a hover as you can imagine
[08:35:41] <nevdull> yeah very multipurpose
[08:36:17] <Badaboom> the were doing cross sections at Eglin on one a while back with that funky ass tower
[08:36:43] <Badaboom> I always said that damn thing looks like war of the worlds .. one of the walkers
[08:37:05] <nevdull> haha
[08:37:31] <Badaboom> weather station my ass
[08:37:53] <Badaboom> sorry Advanced
[08:37:59] <nevdull> the usmc variant of the osprey (v22?) is mostly replacing the older ch46's
[08:39:13] <Badaboom> hmm
[08:39:20] <Badaboom> http://www.hhbeng.com/content.asp?id=133758
[08:40:07] <nevdull> interesting
[08:40:18] <Badaboom> It's a "lab"
[08:42:09] <Badaboom> Look at the tower supports
[08:42:20] <Badaboom> I swear its a walker:)
[08:42:34] <nevdull> tesla would be proud
[08:42:41] <Badaboom> Yes
[08:42:55] <Badaboom> He never got the credit he deserved
[08:42:59] <Badaboom> Never
[08:43:45] <nevdull> yah...the whole power via airwaves thing has been long in the making and just now being realized
[08:44:02] <Badaboom> Ever build one?
[08:44:08] <Badaboom> a coil?
[08:44:10] <nevdull> a tesla coil?
[08:44:12] <Badaboom> yes
[08:44:34] <Badaboom> The ultimate frequency jammer:)
[08:45:06] <Badaboom> I think they may be illeagle now?
[08:45:46] <nevdull> haha yah i have schematics (and for a good cellular jammer which def is illegal to make/own)
[08:46:03] <Badaboom> oh man, you reminded me of something
[08:46:33] <Badaboom> we had a long stay in Hotels and built all kinds of jammers as our entertainment
[08:46:48] <Badaboom> Staff = Not to happy
[08:47:43] <Badaboom> Remember the garage door openers with the dip switches?
[08:47:55] <nevdull> i built a radar false target generator from a gunn diode i bought from russia that i connected to a radar detector so that when it went off, it would calculate the beat frequency of my setting (35mph, 45mph, and 55mph) and jam the radar gun with the calculated beat frequency
[08:48:08] <nevdull> badaboom: oh yah
[08:48:16] <Badaboom> lmao
[08:48:55] <Badaboom> well take a 555 and 4017 and connect it to them in the old days and drive around the neighborhood watching the doors go up and down
[08:49:05] <Badaboom> binary counter:)
[08:49:08] <nevdull> lol yep
[08:49:12] <Badaboom> lol
[08:49:16] <Badaboom> That was fun
[08:50:51] <Badaboom> It's a wonder i had as few problems with the law back then as i should have:)
[08:50:53] <nevdull> yah i've played around alot with 4017, 4011's, etc in morse code generators, frequency shifters, etc
[08:51:00] <Badaboom> yep
[08:51:17] <nevdull> lol count yourself lucky :)
[08:51:48] <Badaboom> Well, my family was pretty good witht the law so...
[08:52:23] <Badaboom> My grandfather had a reserve sherriff badge he used to whip out
[08:52:27] <nevdull> yeah, i knew most all the municiple and county law enforcement as i taught most of them how to shoot heh
[08:52:35] <Badaboom> lol
[08:53:04] <Badaboom> I know most of them, i worked for them here a while back
[08:53:21] <Badaboom> Pinellas County Sherriff
[08:53:25] <nevdull> solexious is making me dyslexic
[08:53:32] <Badaboom> lol
[08:53:37] <nevdull> heh
[08:54:15] <solexious> :)
[08:54:52] <nevdull> yah i got my paramedics license, a concealed handgun permit, and contoms training in tactical EMS and served on a emergency response team as tactical medic for a couple of years before deciding to go back to get my phd
[08:54:52] <Badaboom> nevdull: my other nick is Echelon
[08:55:03] <Badaboom> Nice
[08:55:16] <nevdull> Badaboom: echelon as in the listening network?
[08:55:34] <Badaboom> See i knew you would know:)
[08:55:36] <nevdull> haha
[08:55:48] <Badaboom> Not many people do
[08:55:53] <Badaboom> and that shocks me
[08:56:14] <Badaboom> wait wait,, what listening network?
[08:56:18] <nevdull> people are blissfully ignorant of their absolute lack of guarantees for privacy
[08:56:27] <Badaboom> lmao
[08:56:32] <nevdull> the NSA packet/wire snooping network
[08:56:34] <Badaboom> Thats the truth
[08:56:43] <Badaboom> what,, whats that?
[08:56:51] <Badaboom> lmao
[08:57:05] <nevdull> i dunno...i had to encrypt that with pgp signature before sending it out plain text on an irc network
[08:57:12] <nevdull> now i just got put on a bunch of watch lists i'm sure
[08:57:22] <nevdull> lol
[08:57:22] <Badaboom> lmao
[08:57:33] <Badaboom> roflmao
[08:57:33] <Badaboom> The drives are spinning now
[08:57:57] <Badaboom> wait,, the static drives...spinning?? hmm
[08:58:05] <nevdull> yah, all it will take is to buy 5lbs of nitrogen fertilizer and i'll have homeland security boots kicking in my front door
[08:58:15] <Badaboom> lmao
[08:58:47] <theBear> not nitrogen, potassium nitrate
[08:58:57] <nevdull> aye, saltpeter
[08:59:08] <theBear> nitrogen fertilizer is different
[08:59:08] <nevdull> 1/3 of gunpowder along with charcoal and sulfur
[08:59:09] <Badaboom> lol
[08:59:11] <nevdull> r
[08:59:23] <Badaboom> Moving right along
[08:59:25] <Badaboom> lol
[08:59:41] <Badaboom> Is that the door?
[09:00:18] <theBear> i dunno, it just got kicked in
[09:00:42] <nevdull> haha yah but you can use nitrogen fertilizer as the source of nitrate (NO3-) for nitric acid in the process
[09:01:11] <Badaboom> The new version of the Anarchy Cookbook?
[09:01:18] <theBear> you can use fertilizer with potassium nitrate in it, usually these days when fertilizer says it contains nitrogen it means something different to containing kno3
[09:01:18] <Horologium> I have an anhydrous distribution facility 1000 meters from my house.
[09:01:18] <nevdull> i have a copy of that
[09:01:25] <Badaboom> lol
[09:01:37] <theBear> oh, i see what you say, but wtf you gonna get that much potassium ?
[09:01:49] <Badaboom> Ok,, we play with AVR's and are talking about this,, hmmm
[09:01:50] <Horologium> and anhydrous mobile tanks 100 meters from my house.
[09:01:52] <theBear> kno3 fertilizer literally only needs diesel added and it's on
[09:02:16] <Horologium> anhydrous ammonia and propane in the same tank do nasty things too.
[09:02:36] <nevdull> it's a nitrogen potassium phosphorous mix
[09:02:44] <theBear> yeah, propane aint popular here
[09:02:56] <Horologium> it is here...have a 500 gallon propane tank in my back yard.
[09:03:10] <Horologium> for my furnace and stove.
[09:03:10] <nevdull> yep, diesel and kno3 is like napalm...like putting kerosene in with naptha moth balls
[09:03:22] <Badaboom> lol
[09:03:25] <Badaboom> yeesh
[09:04:00] <theBear> no it isn't ! it's like a high explosive, by which i mean it is one... napalm is just sticky and flammable
[09:04:16] <Horologium> just use gasoline and styrofoam....5 gallon bucket, 1 gallon of gasoline(petrol for you europeans), add styrofoam and mix till the bucket is full.
[09:04:33] <theBear> not europeans, everyone except YOU crazy seppos
[09:04:45] <theBear> EVERYONE !
[09:06:02] <nevdull> seppo == septic tank?
[09:06:19] <theBear> heh, yeah technically, but most people forgot that years ago
[09:06:30] <theBear> now it just means them
[09:06:35] <theBear> as in them and us
[09:06:44] <theBear> which ironically is the US and the rest of us :)
[09:07:04] <nevdull> hehe
[09:07:17] <theBear> nothing personal Horologium, just the rest of the world hates your country :)
[09:07:33] <Horologium> no problem.
[09:07:37] <theBear> cool
[09:07:40] <Horologium> it's getting to the point that I hate this country.
[09:07:51] <Badaboom> nevdull: Webster College?
[09:07:59] <theBear> aha ! you're not just smart, but smart enough to overcome extreme brainwashing
[09:08:01] <theBear> nice work
[09:08:02] <nevdull> Badaboom: webster college?
[09:08:13] <theBear> you know, as in, what you talkin' bout willis ?
[09:08:15] <Badaboom> Phd?
[09:08:17] * theBear smiles
[09:08:45] <nevdull> badaboom: ah, no, university of colorado graduate school of applied science and engineering.
[09:09:01] <Horologium> when non-english speaking countries have a higher english literacy rate than the US, something is seriously wrong here.
[09:09:26] <Badaboom> ahh ok, was looking at the list from lejeune
[09:09:44] <theBear> hehehehehe, that's one good argument
[09:10:04] <nevdull> badaboom: ah gotcha.
[09:10:23] <theBear> Horologium, and remember, that DOESN'T include immigrants :)
[09:10:28] <Horologium> in the late 90s Ethiopia had a higher english literacy rate than the US.
[09:10:34] <Horologium> theBear, I know!
[09:10:40] <theBear> heh, and they talk with clicks and pops !
[09:10:48] <Horologium> the state of our education system is just horrid.
[09:11:06] <nevdull> badaboom: phd in computer science, specializing in non-monotonic reasoning systems and mathematical models of complex,emergent, adaptive systems ;)
[09:11:07] <Horologium> high school graduates can't even count change.
[09:11:10] <theBear> it's not just your education system, the whole system is aimed at keeping you all stupid and brainwashed
[09:11:11] <nevdull> yah i'm a blast at dinner parties
[09:11:30] <theBear> nevdull, heh
[09:11:38] <Badaboom> nevdull: wow
[09:11:44] <Horologium> went to a fast food restaurant the other day and my bill was 14.35. I gave the girl 20.35....
[09:11:59] <Horologium> she couldn't figure out how much change to give me....she punched in 20.00 on the register.
[09:12:15] <Badaboom> lmao
[09:12:15] <Horologium> theBear, again, agreed.
[09:12:15] <theBear> heh, counting the bit in your hand is the easy part
[09:12:32] <Badaboom> Thats just sad
[09:12:32] <Horologium> the whole thing coming down from the government just fucking scares me.
[09:12:32] <nevdull> hah, just as people who can't read are called illiterate, i like to call people who can't do basic math inummerate ;)
[09:12:42] <theBear> and i would assume pressing that number on keys marked with numbers.... no no no, i'm just being too rational again
[09:12:46] <Horologium> nevdull, good one...will have to remember that.
[09:12:49] <nevdull> ;)
[09:13:14] <theBear> "what do you call negative one standing alone in an empty room ?"
[09:13:31] <Horologium> no clue.
[09:13:31] <Horologium> too early and I'm too drugged....
[09:13:33] <theBear> dammit, you're supposed to be entertained by the reference
[09:13:37] <Horologium> took benedryl last night and it hasn't worn off.
[09:13:44] <Badaboom> lmao
[09:13:50] <theBear> but as i recall, overnumeracy
[09:13:53] <Badaboom> That stuff will do it
[09:13:57] <Horologium> I just got out of bed like 20 minutes ago.
[09:14:35] <Horologium> allergies brought on, apparently, by damage to my lungs last year caused by blood clots...so can't flippin breathe this spring.
[09:14:49] <theBear> that'll teach you for not abusing alcahol
[09:14:54] <Horologium> yup.
[09:15:01] <nevdull> Horologium: that's aweful. hope that gets better.
[09:15:06] <Horologium> I should go back to abusing alcohol.
[09:15:10] <Horologium> nevdull, permanent damage.
[09:15:18] <nevdull> Horologium: :(
[09:15:18] <Horologium> only way to get better is to get new lungs..
[09:15:23] <Horologium> but they aren't damaged that bad...
[09:15:29] <Horologium> just have trouble breathing in the spring.
[09:15:31] <nevdull> some shops in china are selling them on ebay
[09:15:41] <Badaboom> lol
[09:15:45] <Horologium> yeah, but the installation procedure is a bitch.
[09:16:00] <Badaboom> all of you need help:)
[09:16:07] <Horologium> thank you.
[09:16:07] <Badaboom> myself too i guess
[09:16:22] <theBear> i'll get the lungs for 50 bucks !
[09:16:26] <theBear> i could do with 50 bucks
[09:16:32] <theBear> can't help installing tho
[09:16:51] <nevdull> what? just power down, remove the old lung, and firmly seat the new lung in your ePCI slot, power back up, start breathing
[09:16:51] <Badaboom> I have a chainsaw
[09:16:52] <Badaboom> lol
[09:17:16] <Badaboom> nevdull: now now.. don't forget the static wrist band
[09:17:31] <theBear> i prefer a wristband that moves with me, a dynamic one as it were
[09:17:31] <nevdull> Badaboom: haha, im always one to cut corners that way ;) *zap*
[09:17:52] <Badaboom> lmao
[09:17:52] <nevdull> i prefer the antistatic mats
[09:17:57] <Badaboom> ahh screw it,, tazer anyone?
[09:18:04] <theBear> i prefer twiser mats
[09:18:05] <theBear> twister
[09:18:08] <Horologium> I like those conductive sticky pads like they use for EKG contacts.
[09:18:12] <Badaboom> you would
[09:18:39] <nevdull> Horologium: i just bought 4 of those EKG pads from a china shop on ebay to make an arduino-based ekg monitor
[09:18:52] <Horologium> used to have a whole bunch of them and used them in the shop just to freak people out. Would stick one to my upper arm then clip the ground wire to it.
[09:19:05] <theBear> damn you ! i thought you went to university ! and you use an arduino ?!?!?!!?!
[09:19:06] <nevdull> they plug into a tiny (smaller than 1/8") jack and i can get readings preliminarily on my oscope, but those pads don't stick for sh*t
[09:19:09] <theBear> did they teach you NOTHING ?
[09:19:21] <theBear> 2.5mm jack
[09:19:31] <Horologium> nevdull, I acquired a case of them some years ago...they were the sterile packaged ones but were outdated so the hospital was throwing the whole case away.
[09:19:36] <Badaboom> oh god, here we go
[09:19:43] <nevdull> theBear: i use an AVR usually, but sometimes i fall back to an arduino (no bootloader, straight c/c++/asm) for rapid prototyping
[09:19:43] <Badaboom> Pardon Our Noise
[09:20:06] <theBear> you may use a bootloader, not just the arduino one :)
[09:20:13] <nevdull> Horologium: hah what did you do with them?
[09:20:16] <Horologium> we need to make an ardweeny replacement.
[09:20:25] <Horologium> nevdull, grounding straps in the shop where I worked!
[09:20:40] <theBear> problem is there were already 50 alternatives ! damn you marketing !
[09:20:44] <Horologium> these had a little contact on the back side that looked like the male side of a snap.
[09:20:47] <nevdull> theBear: i use PDI on xmega, isp on mega/tiny
[09:20:56] <nevdull> Horologium: yeah, that's the way these are, too
[09:21:04] <Horologium> so an alligator clip would clip on nicely.
[09:21:21] <Horologium> in the morning I would stick one to my upper arm just under my shirt sleeve.
[09:21:22] <theBear> nevdull, then why use a board with a stupid name and a usb plug on it ?
[09:21:36] <Horologium> then clip on the ground wire whenever I was working at the bench.
[09:21:40] <nevdull> thebear: for USART/rs232 comms on the easy streets
[09:22:12] <theBear> you can do that AND have a bootloader without changing anything !
[09:22:16] <Tom_garage> yeah, use a board with a catchy name and a ethernet plug instead
[09:22:26] <Horologium> we need a dual processor board....a small usbavr for communications and bootloading and such then a larger one for the main processor.
[09:22:33] <nevdull> i haven't found much of a need for a bootloader, except the DFU bootloaders on the avr32's
[09:22:33] <theBear> we what ?
[09:23:11] <theBear> only 'need' for a bootloader is that it's stupid to have a usb connected avr (native or ft232 style) on a board AND have another board top program it when it could program itself !
[09:23:21] <theBear> top=to
[09:23:57] <Horologium> and add a serial sram or two for data storage and retrieval.
[09:24:13] <Tom_itx> does seem a bit silly
[09:24:25] <nevdull> i use an avrisp mkII to program it (i don't know what's in it, maybe an attiny?) when i supply power externally, or i use the usbtiny when i need my programmer to supply power to the board, and just /dev/ttyUSB0 with a terminal app
[09:24:54] <theBear> then why use an arduino at all ? just have a little scrap of veroboard or cardboard like i use !~
[09:25:15] <Tom_itx> i prefer tortilla flats
[09:25:17] <theBear> you crazy mang !
[09:25:25] <nevdull> theBear: i have *tons* of those kinds of boards laying about every flat, horizontal piece of space in my shop
[09:25:33] <theBear> i am aware of tortilla based prototyping, but have not done it myself
[09:25:47] <nevdull> some on breadboards, some on perfboards, some on boards i've etched, and one on an arduino board
[09:25:48] <Horologium> tortilla programming?
[09:26:04] <theBear> nevdull, so you're supporting the enemy eh ? you may as well send money straight to alquiada ! at least they do something that can be seen as positive
[09:26:09] <Horologium> does that include jalapeno classes and nach-i/o ?
[09:26:12] <nevdull> lol
[09:26:29] <Badaboom> Great The New taco Bell commercial is coming out soon sponsered my Atmel
[09:26:41] <nevdull> ATtaco
[09:26:47] <Badaboom> lmao
[09:26:50] <Tom_itx> tons??
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/Copper1.jpg
[09:26:50] <Badaboom> ATtaco
[09:27:26] <Badaboom> You do know you can etch using Lemon Hydrogenperoxide and salt right?
[09:27:34] <nevdull> of course
[09:27:51] <nevdull> i play around with vinegar, salt, negative etch resisting
[09:28:07] <theBear> jeez, that is tons
[09:28:09] <nevdull> although when i don't want to play around i use HCL and H2O2
[09:28:10] <Badaboom> yep, thats where i started to use lemon from
[09:28:20] <theBear> i started to use lemon on pancakes
[09:28:23] <theBear> now i use it with all kinds of things
[09:28:30] <Badaboom> Oh man your sick
[09:28:38] <theBear> full sic bro !
[09:28:42] <Horologium> so, first thing we need is a name for the board. second is a plan for the board. third is a multiplatform simple user interface for the board.
[09:28:42] <theBear> err fully
[09:28:52] <theBear> sorry, i guess i'm not 'down' with the youth of today
[09:29:12] <Badaboom> You mean the Ghetto Fab Youth?
[09:29:34] <theBear> back loofah, avr+ft232 clone+crystal+reg, lufa avrispmkII
[09:29:40] <Badaboom> Wear your shorts down to your ass youth?
[09:29:49] <nevdull> lol
[09:30:10] <Horologium> http://chrisclarkcustoms.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/ghetto_blaster.324205534_std.jpg one each ghetto blaster.
[09:30:15] <Badaboom> nevdull: i just came up with a target for the 105mm:)
[09:30:24] <Badaboom> wait what?
[09:30:43] <beaky> hello
[09:30:46] <nevdull> return my coffee and tell the 7/11 worker that someone spilled maple syrup in my coffee and he replies "oh no man, that's maple nut crunch" and i say, you're 18yo, you don't know shit about shit, and pull up your pants!
[09:30:54] <nevdull> Badaboom: lol
[09:30:56] <beaky> How do I do timing in software
[09:31:07] <Badaboom> lmao
[09:31:13] <theBear> say "i'll show you the meaning of nutcrunch !"
[09:31:20] <Badaboom> lol
[09:31:23] <Horologium> beaky, depends on what kind of timing you are doing.
[09:31:30] <nevdull> yeah, i'm sure juan valdez is fielding a field of maple nuts
[09:31:37] <nevdull> i'd bet my right maple nut that he's not
[09:31:38] <theBear> heh
[09:31:45] <Badaboom> lol
[09:31:50] <Horologium> beaky, need more specifics.
[09:31:54] <beaky> I want to find out the number of microseconds elapsed in between a low signal, a high signal, and another low signal
[09:32:07] <Horologium> ok.
[09:32:17] <Horologium> two ways
[09:32:25] <beaky> this sounds like a job for input capture, or hardware timers, but they are all occupied :(
[09:32:33] <beaky> so I need to roll my own with pin change interrupts or simple polling :D
[09:32:39] <nevdull> it's really a job for an oscilloscope, but... ;)
[09:32:44] <beaky> hah
[09:32:53] <Horologium> first way, on low signal, start a timer running with an interrupt set to trigger on the high signal....then read the counter in the interrupt.
[09:33:02] <Horologium> or, if you don't mind full blocking
[09:33:29] <Horologium> on low, start a while loop with a variable counting up,,inside the while loop you also check the i/o pin for a high signal.
[09:33:41] <beaky> ah
[09:33:43] <Horologium> when the high signal hits you break out of the while loop
[09:33:44] <beaky> thats what I did
[09:33:47] <Horologium> then look at your count.
[09:33:48] <Horologium> but,
[09:33:49] <beaky> but my timing is off :(
[09:33:58] <Horologium> that doesn't give you microseconds..just a count.
[09:34:14] <Horologium> you need to convert that count to microseconds by figuring out how many cycles per loop, etc.
[09:34:26] <beaky> ah right
[09:34:36] <Horologium> more accurate way is to use a counter.
[09:34:39] <beaky> how do I figure that out :(
[09:34:51] <Horologium> you look at the assembly listing and count cycles.
[09:34:57] <beaky> my hardware timer/counters are all busy doing PWM and whatnot :(
[09:34:58] <beaky> ah
[09:35:25] <beaky> time to learn me an assembler for great good
[09:35:35] <Horologium> use an attiny28 as a secondary processor then.
[09:36:24] <theBear> wtf ? how can you go from not soldering to soldering to having all counters busy and learning asm in 3 days ?
[09:36:31] * theBear calls shenanigans !
[09:36:49] <beaky> I am writing a program to measure height
[09:36:59] <beaky> using the Parallax PING))) ultrasonic transducer
[09:37:10] <beaky> I want to finally find out how tall I am
[09:39:21] <beaky> or is there a better way
[09:40:22] <Horologium> multiple yardsticks and duct tape.
[09:40:53] <braincracker> hahaha etching with lemon juice
[09:40:53] <beaky> damn that would've been cheaper than this overpriced parallax toy
[09:42:09] <nevdull> you could buy a box of m&ms, measure each m&m from each bag in the box to get a usable sample space, then glue them end-to-end up to the top of your head and you'll be within a standard deviation of the mean..that would be easier
[09:42:40] <theBear> multiple ? how damned tall you think he is ?
[09:42:45] <braincracker> who flies RC planes with joystick, remote cam?
[09:42:51] <nevdull> taller than a couple of m&m's i'm suspecting
[09:43:23] <theBear> i meant multiple yardsticks
[09:43:30] <nevdull> lol
[09:43:32] <Badaboom> lol
[09:43:46] <beaky> lol
[09:43:54] <Horologium> theBear, multiple would be 2 or more.
[09:44:00] <Badaboom> Eating left over Yankee Potroast:)
[09:44:04] <Horologium> few people are under 36 inches
[09:44:12] <Horologium> at least, few people over the age of 12
[09:44:34] <Badaboom> Oompa Loompa's too?
[09:46:18] <nevdull> and chupa cabres
[09:46:24] <Badaboom> lol
[09:51:23] <theBear> wtf ? since when was a yard a foot and ahalf ?
[09:51:48] <Horologium> ??
[09:52:36] <theBear> you saying a yardstick isn't a yard long ?
[09:52:41] <beaky> it seems I am 174cm tall
[09:52:41] <theBear> THIS SIR, IS AN OUTRAGE !
[09:52:42] <Horologium> it is 36 inches.
[09:52:52] <Horologium> or, 3 feet
[09:53:11] <theBear> oh, 2 or more, damn, i need a smoke !
[09:53:25] <Badaboom> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGeKSiCQkPw
[09:54:37] <Badaboom> ^ Inject Stupid Humor Here^
[10:02:59] <Badaboom> well folks, ill be back in a bit need to go to the store
[10:14:33] <Horologium> ok, taking suggestions on multi-platform(linux, mac, windows) app design. I have used java before and it,,,kinda works more or less.
[10:15:36] <Horologium> what programming language and/or total package would people suggest?
[10:15:55] <Horologium> also considering mono as it is available for all three platforms.
[10:17:22] <theBear> c
[10:17:34] <Horologium> I would prefer to work in C, yes.
[10:17:54] <Horologium> but then there is the problem of a cross platform GUI package.
[10:17:58] <theBear> so work in it... what kinda apps ?
[10:18:47] <Horologium> primarily a text editor
[10:18:56] <theBear> for gui, if you want full cross platform something like qerr, dammit i need a smoke, you know q-whatsit can work, tho many apps abstract the gui and build to suit either platform
[10:19:18] <Horologium> combined with some other functionality like makefile builder and interface for external device..
[10:19:36] <Horologium> never heard of q-whatsit.
[10:20:27] <Horologium> basically, I want to build something like the arduino system, cross platform, totally integrated in one package everything needed to build, upload, and interface with AVR apps.
[10:21:31] <theBear> you know, i think it's the one the use on old mobiles
[10:21:31] <Horologium> maybe FLTK...will have to look at that one.
[10:21:37] <Horologium> ther eis always wxWidgets.
[10:21:39] <theBear> fltk looks old and shitty
[10:21:50] <theBear> wx is a little better
[10:21:53] <theBear> but err, qt ?
[10:21:55] <theBear> yeah, qt
[10:22:05] <Horologium> qt is a bit heavy though.
[10:22:11] <theBear> your face is a bit heavy !
[10:22:17] <Horologium> of course
[10:22:20] <theBear> heh
[10:22:21] <Horologium> beside the point.
[10:22:53] <Horologium> bah...fltk is C++
[10:25:32] <Horologium> will have to look at wxWidgets...did some work with it some many years ago.
[10:45:02] <beaky> i like this channel
[10:46:39] <beaky> when i first joined, i needed help figuring out why my atmels wouln't program (suspevting they were dead, but actually the programmer sucked), now i finished my first proect
[10:46:51] <beaky> project* thanks to you guys
[10:49:24] <theBear> hooray
[10:50:43] <beaky> this channel and the avr dragon and avr studio 4 and datasheets and arrduino taught me a lot about uCs
[10:51:46] <theBear> the avr dragon eh ? is he like the chess dragon ?
[10:52:39] <beaky> nah its actually a low-cost solution for all Atmel AVR in-system programming and debugging needs
[10:53:19] <beaky> it only costs 50 bucks
[10:53:31] <beaky> compared to a jtag which costs $400
[10:54:47] <beaky> it is an excellent and reliable tool
[10:54:48] <dunz0r> It comes in a nice looking box too
[10:55:03] <beaky> well worth those 50 bucks
[10:55:06] <dunz0r> I wish the box weren't made out of cardboard :(
[10:55:17] <dunz0r> It's such a good looking box.
[10:55:42] <beaky> fanciest box ever
[10:56:42] <beaky> but i guess it has to be cardboard (and the dragon itself naked and not in plastic casing) to keep the dragon low-cost ^^
[10:57:09] <beaky> the ice-blue plastic is expensive iirc
[12:57:40] <Sitedude> Does anyone here have any Arduino experience?
[12:57:53] <Fleck> :D
[12:57:57] <Fleck> try #arduino
[12:58:08] <Tom_itx> way more than i'll admit
[12:58:14] <Sitedude> yay
[12:58:18] <Sitedude> well i tried #arduino
[12:58:24] <Tom_itx> haha
[12:58:28] <Sitedude> but my question is MCU related
[12:58:31] <Tom_itx> didn't have any answers?
[12:58:31] <Sitedude> so it's 1/2 and 1/2
[12:58:35] <Sitedude> neg
[12:58:40] <Fleck> shoot!
[12:58:44] <Sitedude> http://akb77.com/g/silabs/jump-to-silabs-step-1/
[12:58:48] <Sitedude> ya thanks guys
[12:58:49] <Sitedude> yay*
[12:58:55] <Sitedude> This is what i am working on here
[12:59:18] <Sitedude> I have a SiLabs chip i am trying to reflash with a c2 interface (c2clk, c2dat, +, gnd)
[12:59:35] <Sitedude> the guy above made a sketch for arduino to flash through c2
[13:00:06] <Sitedude> but i think his was written for a ATmeage168P and i have the arduino uno
[13:00:18] <Tom_itx> which is what chip?
[13:00:19] <Sitedude> when i compile the sketch it throws up errors
[13:00:27] <Sitedude> C8051F347
[13:00:34] <Tom_itx> no it isn't
[13:00:49] <Horologium> the ardweeny uno runs what chip?
[13:00:54] <Sitedude> ohh
[13:01:00] <Sitedude> let me check
[13:01:02] <Tom_itx> recompile the code for it
[13:01:07] <Tom_itx> then it might work
[13:01:08] <Horologium> you
[13:01:12] <Sitedude> atmega328
[13:01:15] <Horologium> grr...hate new keyboards.
[13:01:26] <Horologium> and, what errors is it giving you?
[13:01:29] <Tom_itx> so change the target for a 328 and it should compile
[13:01:47] <Sitedude> C2_Flash:474: error: 'PD5' was not declared in this scope
[13:01:47] <Sitedude> C2_Flash.pde: In function 'byte C2_Reset()':
[13:01:47] <Sitedude> C2_Flash:850: error: 'PD5' was not declared in this
[13:01:55] <Sitedude> I get those errors
[13:01:59] <Horologium> telling us it throws up errors without telling us what errors is like calling your auto mechanic and telling him your car makes noise and asking how to fix it.
[13:02:09] <Sitedude> So i changed PD5 to PORTD5 and it compiles but i dont think thats the right way to do it?
[13:02:10] <Tom_itx> patience young one
[13:02:57] <Tom_itx> change the header to reflect a 328 instead of a 168p
[13:03:13] <Sitedude> how do you do that, i dont see where it declares the 168p Tom
[13:03:34] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure either
[13:03:38] <Tom_itx> i don't do arduino
[13:03:39] <Tom_itx> ;)
[13:03:48] <Sitedude> https://github.com/x893/C2.Flash/blob/master/C2_Flash.pde
[13:03:52] <Sitedude> thats the sketch
[13:04:00] <Horologium> somewhere in the ardweeny software you should be able to set your target board.
[13:04:06] <Fleck> tools -> board Sitedude
[13:04:12] <Tom_itx> there ya go
[13:04:31] <Sitedude> wtf it compiled
[13:04:32] <Sitedude> haha
[13:04:38] <Sitedude> that will work on my uno?
[13:04:39] <Tom_itx> carry on
[13:04:52] <Tom_itx> that's for you to find out now isn't it?
[13:05:18] <Sitedude> By changing it from an Uno to an Atmega 1280 it seemed to compile okay. will it still run on my uno?
[13:05:29] <Tom_itx> use the proper chip
[13:05:47] <Tom_itx> the memory map is different
[13:05:53] <Tom_itx> may put stuff in wrong places
[13:06:25] <Horologium> registers are different, different number of i/o ports, different amount of memory,
[13:07:04] <Sitedude> ouch, so that means it wont work then :/
[13:07:14] <Sitedude> avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00
[13:07:15] <Sitedude> is what i got when i tried uploading the sketch as an amega 1280
[13:07:38] <Horologium> compile for the 1280 and trying to put it in a 328 would be like trying to stuff a big block 8 cylinder engine into a ford escort.
[13:07:49] <Tom_itx> well you don't have a 1280 now do you??
[13:07:56] <Sitedude> sure dont
[13:08:06] <Tom_itx> follow directions
[14:26:45] <wstraus> Hi guys, I made a little development board with a 644p on it. I wasn't thinking and I soldered an 18.432 MHz crystal on it before I set the fuses for an external clock. Now avrdude is telling me that it can't connect to the chip.
[14:27:59] <timemage> wstraus, i wouldn't expect that to be a problem.
[14:28:08] <wstraus> It would be a real pain to get this crystal off the board. Is there anyway I can trick avrdude into letting me set the fuses needed?
[14:28:30] <wstraus> Yea I didn't think it would be either.
[14:29:21] <timemage> wstraus, you're programming in isp mode, yeah?
[14:30:02] <wstraus> Don't get me wrong it could be something completely different that is making it not connect.
[14:30:40] <wstraus> I think I am. I'm using an AVRISPmkII clone.
[14:30:56] <timemage> wstraus, yup.
[14:31:50] <wstraus> I do have an old serial programmer I made when I was first starting out.
[14:32:18] <timemage> wstraus, did you have the programming connected to it and then just add the crystal or did it get disconnected and reconnected during that process?
[14:35:01] <timemage> wstraus, and by "programming" i mean "programmer" =)
[14:35:02] <wstraus> No, I took the parts and soldered them all on to the board before I ever powered the AVR up. I've never had avrdude successfully connect to this chip.
[14:36:20] <wstraus> That other programmer I have is a simple dasa btw.
[14:37:46] <timemage> wstraus, just a stupid question then. you have powered the target, right? =)
[14:38:25] <timemage> wstraus, probably going to be on the phone a but i'll follow up when i get off.
[14:38:35] <wstraus> Yes, it has its own supply and I see 5v at it's pwr pins.
[14:38:50] <wstraus> cool thank you.
[14:39:50] <uv> hi
[14:40:09] <uv> is anybody expert in xmega AWEX ?
[14:40:36] <megal0maniac> uv OndraSter__ knows some things
[14:41:19] <OndraSter__> never tried awex
[14:41:27] <uv> i want to use the internal event system for providing real time triggers for another timers
[15:02:06] <timemage> wstraus, what does avrdude say whne it fails?
[15:03:12] <wstraus> avrdude: initialization failed, rc=-1
[15:17:22] <wstraus> hmm, I just ran a little experiment on a breadboard, with the default lfuse of 0x62 I plugged in an external crystal and the AVR did not seem to care.
[15:17:44] <wstraus> I guess my problem is somewhere else.
[15:19:13] <Tom_itx> nope it doesn't care if it's not enabled
[15:24:59] <wstraus> hi Tom_itx I'm still using your programmer and it still works great.
[15:25:06] <wstraus> thank you
[15:26:40] <Badaboom> will using 2 1n4148's replace a 3.6 zener?
[15:26:48] <Badaboom> Im not getting this i guess?
[15:26:53] <megal0maniac> No
[15:26:59] <megal0maniac> Actually...
[15:27:01] <megal0maniac> Eh
[15:27:10] <megal0maniac> No
[15:27:30] <Badaboom> I thought earlier it would
[15:28:36] <megal0maniac> Zener will chuck any potential over and above 3v6. Standard signal diodes just drop by +-0.7V, so your output will fluctuate with your input. Zener is the correct way to do this
[15:29:24] <megal0maniac> Also the signal diodes you'd have in series, forward biased. The zener would be in parallel with the load, reverse biased
[15:29:26] <Badaboom> and Zener Diodes are reversed?
[15:29:37] <Badaboom> ahh
[15:29:41] * megal0maniac wonders if he passed electronics exam...
[15:30:27] <megal0maniac> Badaboom: This explains it nicely
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_3/11.html
[15:33:38] <Badaboom> ahh
[15:33:46] <Badaboom> lol now that makes sense
[15:34:03] <megal0maniac> Yeah. You use then differently
[15:34:14] <Badaboom> Very much differently
[15:34:56] <Badaboom> That's what threw me as i know diodes to have the line going to the negative
[15:36:05] <megal0maniac> Yip. You intentionally put then backwards because they're designed to break-down at a certain voltage
[15:36:48] <Badaboom> ahh..light just went on:)
[15:37:21] <Badaboom> So 2 1n4148's will not suffice?
[15:37:32] <Badaboom> series
[15:38:47] <megal0maniac> Well they will. But it's better to go the zener route. Your circuit will be limited to the current that the 4148s can take. A zener helps clean the power up as well
[15:39:07] <megal0maniac> Only a little, but they do
[15:39:15] <Badaboom> ok
[15:40:53] <megal0maniac> 'Night
[15:42:13] <Badaboom> ty Night
[16:06:03] * Aleks Eagle CAD sux.
[16:06:37] <Badaboom> Why do you say that?
[16:07:13] <Aleks> Badaboom, sorry, that was a /ame :) I broadcasted that on all channels that I'm on... because I'm a FLOSS user :)
[16:07:38] <Badaboom> ok
[16:07:44] <theBear> it's relatively free, and not open, but until someone writes a better open and free-er schematic and pcb editor, ya know
[16:08:00] <theBear> i'm kinda proud of cadsoft getting bought out by an international giant like farnells
[16:08:03] <Aleks> theBear, what about KiCAD ?
[16:08:21] <theBear> last i checked kicad wasn't so err, finished
[16:08:25] <theBear> but i admit it's been a while
[16:08:49] <inkjetunito> eagle is mature at least
[16:08:49] <theBear> oregano wasn't called oregano yet, for some reason i wanna say squirrel ?
[16:09:41] <sabesto> kicad works, eagle is the most unintuitive program i know
[16:10:07] <theBear> it's not the MOST unintuitive i used, but it certainly takes a little getting used to, newer versions better than older
[16:10:31] <theBear> last i tried blender (to be fair probably 8 years ago) it was damned rough
[16:12:52] <Badaboom> last i tried a blender the smoothies didnt taste quite right
[16:13:52] <theBear> that's cos some ass made some indian nut stuff in it
[16:14:00] <Badaboom> lmao
[16:14:03] <theBear> never let anyone make indian stuff with your blender !
[16:14:42] <Badaboom> never get that taste out
[16:14:58] <theBear> fortunately i never made this mistake, i've used blenders that did tho
[16:15:15] <theBear> i love indian food, just that blenders were never meant for it
[16:15:53] <Badaboom> same here but i think some of the spices could stain shit a different color
[16:16:44] <theBear> some of them do !
[16:16:50] <Badaboom> lol
[16:20:21] <Roklobsta> i think you'll find all cad software is unfinished. I rem. having to deal with all the quirks of protel99se and service packs but we still made 8 layer boards with bgas etc no probs.
[16:20:53] <Roklobsta> Altium on the other hand ... well Altium in 2003 was a ^&#%@%^&!.
[16:21:19] <theBear> autocad's have all been pretty special, since before windows
[16:21:27] <Roklobsta> And expensive. Dunno what it's like now.
[16:21:54] <Roklobsta> Kicad reminds me of Protel99. Does all the basics pretty well and doesn't get in your face with features and bloat.
[16:22:07] <RikusW> /ping rikusw
[16:22:59] <Tom_itx> /pong RikusW
[16:23:19] <RikusW> just checking if I'm actually connected
[16:23:25] <Roklobsta> rikusw does indeed pong.
[16:23:35] <RikusW> there were a space at the start of the line :-P
[16:23:46] <RikusW> seems my adsl is fixed now, by myself :-D
[16:23:58] <RikusW> turned out there was a wire with metal fatigue... in one of the telco wires...
[16:24:06] <RikusW> there were 2 pairs
[16:24:18] <RikusW> the other one was open and mine was 8k
[16:24:25] <Roklobsta> i think adsl sort of workes on 1 wire still
[16:24:41] <RikusW> hmm sortof, like me in and out all the time
[16:24:41] <theBear> heh
[16:24:43] <Horologium> adsl=almost digital subscriber line
[16:24:57] <RikusW> so I found only one wire in each pair was broken
[16:25:11] <RikusW> and connected the working ones, measures 13 Ohm now :)
[16:25:35] <RikusW> so telkom couldn't fix it, tech was here a while ago...
[16:25:42] <RikusW> so I did, at last...
[16:26:04] <RikusW> don't know whats the telco policy for someone else messing with their wires ? :-P
[16:26:34] <Roklobsta> They hook a blue box up to the line.
[16:26:54] <RikusW> I took the phone and connected my dmm probes
[16:26:58] <Roklobsta> I recall a blue box is just a phone port on one side of the box and a mains plug on the other.
[16:27:14] <RikusW> and when I got to the other switchbox there were no noise...
[16:27:53] <RikusW> at least I can watch youtube again now :)
[16:28:10] <RikusW> seems the cold makes the line very noisy...
[16:28:13] <Roklobsta> yeah more Gangnam Style home made videos for you!
[16:28:18] <RikusW> heh
[16:28:34] <RikusW> did you see the eyebrow gangnam styel one yet ?
[16:28:48] <Roklobsta> my kid 'discovered' GS recently. Have had to endure it a fair bit lately.
[16:29:46] <Roklobsta> GS is a good tongue in cheek song/video. Even thogh I don't speak a word of Korean.
[16:30:12] <RikusW> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8AZS6xuVvk
[16:30:15] <RikusW> like that one
[16:34:14] <RikusW> this one is better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n16yK9GViH8
[16:34:30] <RikusW> how do you even do that ? :-P
[16:36:01] <Roklobsta> Wshe's trying hard to get her 3 minutes on Ellen.
[16:36:54] <Roklobsta> rikusw: what is your normal adsl speed?
[16:37:58] <RikusW> 4MBit
[16:38:13] <Badaboom> You want to hear something sad? I can do that with my eyebrows but im damn sure not putting that on youtube
[16:38:22] <RikusW> heh
[16:39:02] <RikusW> last month or so the line got progressively worse, particularly in the cold evenings
[16:39:14] <Roklobsta> I get 22Mbit.
[16:39:18] <Roklobsta> haha
[16:39:38] <Roklobsta> you must be about 4km from the exchange
[16:39:44] <RikusW> there is 10MBit available in South Africa
[16:39:48] <Roklobsta> i am ~70m.
[16:39:53] <RikusW> but our exchange supports only 4
[16:40:15] <Roklobsta> oh that's awful
[16:40:43] <Roklobsta> it's like australia was 10years ago. The telco gave up on being asshats and just said everyone can have adsl as fast as it can go.
[16:41:16] <GuShH> I'm not in Australia but I doubt that's how it went.
[16:42:22] <Roklobsta> well, the industry is competetive, so when competitors put adsl2 dslams in the exhcnages and dropped the prices the big boys had to follow.
[16:43:05] <GuShH> when it's not puppeteered by the government then yes.
[16:43:55] <Roklobsta> well, Telecom was sold off but the govt legislated they had to wholesale their phone and adsl network out to competitors and it also regularly sets the prices the telco can charge per port.
[16:44:12] <braincracker> h
[16:44:12] <RikusW> telkom.co.za this company isn't liked very much, but its got the monopoly...
[16:44:21] <GuShH> the market is closed here in argentina
[16:44:28] <GuShH> only two telcos.
[16:44:35] <GuShH> they were in theory going to release it years ago
[16:44:43] <Roklobsta> yeah, monopoly govt Telecom is so 20th century.
[16:44:45] <GuShH> it's all bullshit since they make more money ,sorry they steal more money like this
[16:45:00] <GuShH> still running on copper almost everwyehre
[16:45:02] <RikusW> indeed
[16:45:06] <GuShH> only private fiber
[16:45:24] <RikusW> have to pay a $15 line fee to the telco even though we have a different ISP
[16:45:29] <RikusW> line costs $90
[16:45:36] <GuShH> man I've almost seriously injured a couple telecom employees a couple times... you may argue it's not their fault
[16:45:38] <RikusW> in total
[16:45:39] <Roklobsta> teh ogvt here is putting a new monooly network in with fibre to every house and business. already people can get 100Mbit for not much mopney.
[16:45:40] <GuShH> but they are part of the problem.
[16:45:56] <braincracker> what's up?
[16:46:26] <Roklobsta> I am glad the phone industry was deregulated here in the 1990s.
[16:46:34] <GuShH> with their friggin union and their ignorance they are as much part of the problem as anything else.
[16:46:42] <Roklobsta> it's driven the prices down and there is good choice.
[16:47:04] <GuShH> argentina is a game played by a few people.
[16:47:12] <GuShH> those with power get to play it for a while.
[16:47:25] <GuShH> until they get tired of shovelling bags of money.
[16:47:32] <Roklobsta> they never get tired
[16:47:39] <GuShH> they die.
[16:47:43] <GuShH> usually on their own, sadly
[16:47:48] <GuShH> I wish people would take charge
[16:48:02] <GuShH> I'd be so happy if at least one politician died every day
[16:48:16] * GuShH nods
[16:48:31] <GuShH> actually I have a theory about fake deaths...
[16:49:02] <GuShH> there really seems to exist a few companies that will get you a new life for the right amount of money
[16:49:41] <GuShH> not just witness protection, I'm talking the whole 9 yards.
[16:49:54] <GuShH> Roklobsta: so you're in SA?
[16:50:07] <Roklobsta> South Australia? No, Victoria.
[16:50:34] <GuShH> And where's theBear at?
[16:51:04] <Roklobsta> dunno
[16:51:28] <GuShH> I think I saw theBear from the future in a show called Shipping Wars
[16:51:33] <GuShH> http://shippingwars.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/roy-garber-shipping-wars.jpg
[16:51:59] <braincracker> Badaboom <= what coolness you doing ?
[16:52:17] <Badaboom> Nota, eating:)
[16:52:20] <Badaboom> you?
[16:52:41] <Roklobsta> the other day when I was downloading some linux updates at 2.2megabytes/s how I used to download crap at 2400bps.
[16:52:46] <braincracker> well, finished preparing some food and it is cooking right now
[16:53:03] <braincracker> still no avr timer ;/
[16:53:04] <Badaboom> nice
[16:53:06] <Badaboom> I finished Chaos today:)
[16:53:26] <Badaboom> Im calling it Chaos now
[16:54:07] <braincracker> it is not cool having cooking/baking equipment without a timer
[16:54:18] <Badaboom> lol
[16:54:27] <Badaboom> What about using the microwave?
[16:54:34] <Badaboom> Doesnt it have a timer?
[16:54:49] <braincracker> what do you think i should do with a microwave oven?
[16:55:01] <Horologium> many modern microwaves have a timer function.
[16:55:04] <braincracker> i have hot-plate, and IR oven
[16:55:16] <Badaboom> But no clock?
[16:55:19] <Badaboom> lmao
[16:55:27] <GuShH> you are in a microcontroller channel
[16:55:34] <GuShH> and you don't have the means to make one?
[16:55:35] <braincracker> no, it was the cheapest, i just hacked pt100 and temp control in them
[16:55:44] <Badaboom> lol
[16:55:49] * GuShH was about to stab someone
[16:55:54] <Badaboom> lmao
[16:55:58] <braincracker> i should write a timer/temp control thingy with an atmega
[16:56:06] <GuShH> PID?
[16:56:16] <GuShH> I'd just buy a pirometer (pyrometer?)
[16:56:26] <GuShH> 40 bucks with SSR, thermocouple and chinese smell in a box.
[16:56:32] <Horologium> you have a computer, likely an x86 of some power.....there are literally DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of timer programs out there, for free, for windows, linux, mac, and even slowlaris.
[16:56:32] <Badaboom> Someone say Pyro?\0/
[16:56:34] <GuShH> CHINESE SMELL.
[16:56:48] <Badaboom> lol
[16:56:52] <GuShH> I wonder if chinese cars smell like that too
[16:56:59] <GuShH> I'd never get on a chinese car though
[16:57:06] <GuShH> That's like a death wish
[16:57:06] <braincracker> Badaboom <= you are lucky if the cheap toasted ovens don't set your bread on fire by default ;)
[16:57:12] <braincracker> *toaster
[16:57:16] <Badaboom> lol
[16:57:28] <GuShH> Not sure why people even buy them, here they are not cheap
[16:57:34] <GuShH> and if you look at them it's a glorified bicycle.
[16:57:37] <Badaboom> Use the broiler
[16:57:45] <braincracker> Horologium <= oh, i meant a timer thing that will turn off the heat
[16:57:56] <Badaboom> Watch the clock
[16:58:05] <braincracker> so i press some keys, display things on some display like on your "modern microwave oven"
[16:58:36] <braincracker> Badaboom <= well i can make nice black cookies while watching clock and coding
[16:58:54] <Badaboom> lmfao
[16:59:21] <Horologium> one should not multitask while making cookies.
[16:59:26] <Horologium> it's against the law.
[16:59:36] <Badaboom> btw i never did get that damn secondary noise to go away from the Piezo
[16:59:53] <braincracker> secondary noise?
[17:00:08] <braincracker> what magic equipment is that?
[17:00:13] <braincracker> sonar?
[17:00:15] <Badaboom> The port stays open and ive used all bitwise ops
[17:00:28] <Roklobsta> gusssh: toaster ovens are for PCB production, not toasting.
[17:00:51] <GuShH> Roklobsta: no, toaster ovens are for toasting. you are just a cheap ass boy using them for PCB
[17:01:04] <GuShH> it's like using a spoon for a knife you weirdo.
[17:01:13] <Badaboom> No a low level noise coming from the Piezo..shuts up with the reset so im thinking its just the port has to much going on
[17:01:16] <GuShH> SURE EVENTUALLY YOULL CUT SOMETHING WITH IT.
[17:01:53] <braincracker> ;/
[17:02:03] <braincracker> short SC the piezo while idle
[17:02:09] <Badaboom> Not to sure PWM USI SPI should all be combine on one port
[17:03:07] <braincracker> it can be simple noise from the power line, add low ESR caps too
[17:03:31] <Badaboom> braincracker: i think its the code but ill figure it out later
[17:03:43] <braincracker> it can also be gcc
[17:04:05] <braincracker> or aliens injecting their virus in your program
[17:04:11] <Badaboom> hmm i think its due to the SPI init that port
[17:04:40] <Badaboom> I really should have used another chip
[17:04:44] <theBear> http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/24100000/The-Boondock-Saints-II-All-Saints-Day-Deleted-Scene-Romeo-Plays-Chess-the-boondock-saints-24102470-750-562.jpg http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/2f/56/2f5623_1165866.jpg that's me in the future, actually, i think that's just me with hairgel :)
[17:04:50] <Badaboom> I got landlocked with this one'
[17:04:52] <theBear> and a shave
[17:05:12] <GuShH> haha
[17:05:26] <Horologium> well, if you have something else running on the same port the piezo is attached to, of course it will make noise!
[17:05:33] <Horologium> at least, the same pin.
[17:05:36] <GuShH> still can't get over the cheesy mexican guns
[17:05:43] <Horologium> not necessarily the port...but the specific pin.
[17:05:48] <theBear> hehehe "you think they make me look gay ?"
[17:06:04] <GuShH> he almost cried when he saw them
[17:06:18] <Badaboom> Horologium: ive tried isolating it but no help
[17:06:27] <theBear> hehe
[17:06:27] <GuShH> still I think that's you in the present. you are roy in the future.
[17:06:37] <GuShH> so in the future you'll have a cat too
[17:06:47] <Badaboom> I thought thats him now;)
[17:06:47] <theBear> i dunno man, but i like the way roy's all old but the kitty hasn't aged a day :)
[17:06:51] <GuShH> lol
[17:06:52] <theBear> dammit ! why people keep thinking i'm ancient ?
[17:06:56] <Badaboom> lmao
[17:06:58] <Horologium> Badaboom, is that pwm output on the same pin that spi uses?
[17:07:14] <GuShH> theBear: must be the walking stick and the "get off my lawn" sign
[17:07:16] <Badaboom> Horologium: nope
[17:07:25] <Horologium> hmm.
[17:07:26] <theBear> maybe... i wanna get a picture, kinda chaplin style
[17:07:30] <GuShH> this coffee is horrible.
[17:07:37] <theBear> probly dressing up for the casino later today, migth be the time
[17:07:39] <Horologium> no clue then.
[17:07:48] <Horologium> time to go break a mower worse than it is already.
[17:07:48] <theBear> you'd think a modern fone would have a timer camera thinger like in the old movies
[17:08:02] <GuShH> Horologium: huh?
[17:08:02] <Badaboom> lol
[17:08:05] <Badaboom> Good luck
[17:08:08] <theBear> mowers are easy
[17:08:19] <GuShH> pretty much which is why I asked, huh?
[17:08:20] <Badaboom> I tried dating once,, there not easy
[17:08:25] <theBear> secondary to being a animal wheesperer i also wheesper mowers and chainsaws
[17:08:35] <GuShH> the mower is also an animal whisperer
[17:08:36] <theBear> Badaboom tisshhhh
[17:08:39] <GuShH> it whispers until it catches it.
[17:08:44] <Badaboom> lmao
[17:08:49] <GuShH> then it goes KAAAAAAAAIIIAAAAAAAAHHh
[17:08:54] <GuShH> and splatter goes everywhere.
[17:08:54] <theBear> maybe if the animal is deaf as a post !
[17:09:01] <GuShH> I've caught a toad once
[17:09:02] <theBear> which ironically would probably kill a mower
[17:09:04] <GuShH> with a small electric mower
[17:09:06] <Badaboom> tried one of those too
[17:09:06] <GuShH> it was horrible.
[17:09:22] * theBear does not approve of electric mowers or chainsaws or whipper-snippers
[17:09:26] <GuShH> I'll kill any animal for food, but when it's not intended it makes me sad
[17:09:36] <Horologium> GuShH, mower will start but dies after a few seconds....press the primer ball a few times and it will start and run a few seconds again.
[17:09:46] <theBear> i'll kill any human for food, only some animals
[17:09:47] <Horologium> so, if I have someone pump the primer ball it will keep running.
[17:10:03] <GuShH> Hmmm let's see I have two chainsaws a 26cc whipper... and a 158cc mower, nothing too big I ain't over-compensating for anything as you can see.
[17:10:04] <theBear> Horologium, you checked the ball and tubes aren't perished/cracked ?
[17:10:10] <Horologium> not yet.
[17:10:13] <Badaboom> Horologium: im excellent with mowers..one of my first jobs was repairing,, well helping
[17:10:14] <theBear> YOU FOOL !
[17:10:15] <GuShH> Horologium: is it a briggs?
[17:10:15] <Horologium> that's why I gotta go break it.
[17:10:30] <Horologium> it's an MTD...haven't looked at the brand of engine but probably a briggs.
[17:10:36] <GuShH> ah so it's overhead
[17:10:37] <Horologium> just a little pushy mower.
[17:10:40] <Badaboom> Briggs are easy
[17:10:46] <GuShH> WHY IS THERE SO MUCH NOISE NOW
[17:10:48] <GuShH> shadup
[17:10:51] <theBear> i was using the whipper snipper with clamps on half the lines until i finally picked up some extra tubing to properly bypass the tickler bulb
[17:11:10] <GuShH> MTD usually has a OHV copy from Honda
[17:11:15] <Horologium> the thing was used maybe 2 hours last summer then has been sitting in my garage since then.
[17:11:18] <GuShH> but if you say it's a briggs...
[17:11:25] <GuShH> sitting with fuel?
[17:11:25] <Horologium> it might not be briggs..
[17:11:28] <Badaboom> Horologium: depending on the carb try the mixture setting and idle adj screw
[17:11:30] <Horologium> as I said, haven't looked.
[17:11:30] <GuShH> can you take a picture?
[17:11:33] <Horologium> no..fuel was taken out.
[17:11:33] <theBear> not really sure how they can possibly have a reason for THAT many lines going to and from the tank and the tickler and the carb and back again
[17:11:42] <GuShH> and primed out the carb?
[17:11:47] <Horologium> yup.
[17:11:50] <GuShH> ie. ran until it stalled or at least cleaned it with air
[17:11:57] <GuShH> alright but it could still be the carb.
[17:11:59] <Horologium> ran till it died.
[17:11:59] <theBear> check all the lines and the bulb before you get carried away tuning to a system that doesn't really exist
[17:12:02] <Badaboom> You know what this reminds me of...
[17:12:08] <GuShH> the diaphragm can get stiff
[17:12:12] <Horologium> when I started it today it ran for maybe 15 minutes then died.
[17:12:13] <theBear> home improvement with al borland ?
[17:12:14] <GuShH> theBear: only two lines in the briggs
[17:12:16] <Badaboom> thats what she said
[17:12:19] <Horologium> now it will start after priming and promptly die.
[17:12:19] <GuShH> and a little fuel filter
[17:12:30] <theBear> heh
[17:12:34] <GuShH> Horologium: check the governer springs
[17:12:35] <theBear> filters are good
[17:12:43] <theBear> one liners about what she said are better
[17:12:47] <Badaboom> Get a sledge hammer
[17:12:51] <theBear> governor
[17:12:52] <GuShH> the new briggs carbs are all plastic
[17:12:54] <GuShH> non adjustable
[17:12:54] <Horologium> yup...was gonna clean the carby then play with gov setup.
[17:13:11] <Badaboom> use the idle adj screw first
[17:13:13] <GuShH> theBear: well sorry I'm not all boozed up like you are so I can't make much sense!
[17:13:15] <theBear> just tape a tube of start-ya-bastard to the intake and break the nozzle off
[17:13:18] <GuShH> Badaboom: there's none
[17:13:22] <GuShH> not on small briggs.
[17:13:25] <theBear> i forgive you
[17:13:36] <GuShH> you better take a picture of the engine so I can really give you a hand!
[17:13:38] <Horologium> this thing has wacked gov setup on the side of the engine..the handle has a bar you pull in but it doesn't connect to the throttle..I think it connects to a kill switch for the spark.
[17:13:47] <GuShH> if it's an MTD it may be OHV and they use a different carb
[17:13:49] <Badaboom> GuShH: define small?
[17:14:01] <Badaboom> Ive seen them on as small as 3hp
[17:14:03] <Horologium> if I can't get it running I'll come back for help.
[17:14:08] <Horologium> with pictures.
[17:14:23] <Horologium> haven't even torn into it or looked at it more than to say, yup, it's a mower.
[17:14:40] <theBear> that's all you really need to know with any mower
[17:15:23] <Horologium> had a nice one that the wifey horked bigtime...good heavy briggs on it....she hit something, not sure what or how exactly, but it bent the motor shaft....yeah, I have absolutely NO clue how she managed that.
[17:15:31] <Horologium> anyhow, time to go get greasy.
[17:16:05] <theBear> wifes can be special like that
[17:17:31] <Badaboom> Older ones used to have float problems
[17:19:37] <specing> summary of today's #avr: politics, NSA and lawn movers.
[17:20:23] <Badaboom> Think we can get the compiler to handle that?
[17:29:20] <theBear> heh, some of us are fond of lawnmowers
[17:29:36] <Horologium> it is an OHV...138CC
[17:30:17] <theBear> huh ? that's a small motorbike not a mower !
[17:31:23] <Horologium> err, 139cc
[17:31:28] <Horologium> that's what it says on top of the mower.
[17:32:05] <theBear> damn !
[17:33:42] <Horologium> it's a 21 inch mower.
[17:33:49] <Badaboom> The engine of the MTD 138 CC OHV engine has an auto-choke that does not require priming.
[17:33:50] <Horologium> from what I'm seeing online it is the fuel inlet valve.
[17:34:03] <Horologium> Badaboom, this one has a big red priming button on the front.
[17:34:11] <Badaboom> damn
[17:34:23] <theBear> tickler never hurts on a cold day
[17:35:40] <Horologium> http://www.mtdparts.com/equipment/mtdparts/mtd-black-21-139cc-push-mower looks like this engine.
[17:36:30] <Horologium> I'm guessing it's something in the fuel inlet of the carby because if I force fuel into it with the primer it will start and run a couple of seconds.
[17:36:39] <Horologium> and the bowl had fuel in it...I emptied it for the fun of it.
[17:37:09] <Badaboom> Is ther a float in the bowl?
[17:37:12] <Badaboom> there
[17:37:18] <Horologium> no clue...bowl doesn
[17:37:27] <Horologium> no clue...bowl doesn't look like it comes off without some major hassle.
[17:37:34] <Horologium> would take pics but phone is totally dead.
[17:37:39] <theBear> that doesn't look too hitech
[17:37:49] <theBear> and it got a big red button, close enough to yours :)
[17:37:52] <Badaboom> theres a pin valve if it has one
[17:38:01] <theBear> lol, well, obviously
[17:38:45] <Badaboom> :)
[17:38:58] <Badaboom> Those are known to have problems
[17:39:03] <theBear> most modern victa i used (and kinda technically own, tho far away now) has a crazy facade, 4stroke electronic this and that.... that looks like a sensible engine
[17:39:26] <theBear> i kinda wonder what can be electronic without a battery, but i aint worried
[17:39:39] <theBear> maybe it got some kinda super-transistor instead of points
[17:39:48] <theBear> damned thing just works, no need to mess with it :)
[17:39:53] <Horologium> the engine looks identical..only difference is mine has a side eject and no bagger attachment.
[17:40:54] <Horologium> and was on sale for 99 dollars when the wifey bent the shaft on the expensive pushymower.
[17:42:43] <Horologium> aahh..I see how the bowl comes off now..
[17:42:54] <Horologium> back out to see how badly I can break it!
[17:42:55] <Badaboom> I hate to ask but you are holding the shutoff bar down right?
[17:43:01] <Horologium> yes
[17:43:03] <Badaboom> ok
[17:43:07] <Horologium> if the bar wasn't down it wouldn't start at all.
[17:43:14] <Badaboom> True:)
[17:43:19] <Horologium> it's definitely a fuel issue.
[17:43:34] <Horologium> bbiaf.
[17:43:34] <Badaboom> Has it been sitting for a while?
[17:43:46] <Badaboom> rgr
[17:43:56] <Horologium> sat over the winter with no fuel in it...ran it till it was out then shoved it in the corner of the garage.
[17:44:06] <Horologium> so, carby likely needs a good cleaning.
[17:44:13] <Badaboom> yep
[17:44:34] <theBear> just spray whatever juicey stuff you got in the airhole and rev it flatout for a minute probly b e enough
[17:44:41] <Badaboom> ether
[17:44:46] <theBear> starter, cleaner, whatever you got handy
[17:44:56] <Badaboom> JP5
[17:44:58] <theBear> heck, even wd40 if yer desperate
[17:45:01] <Badaboom> yep
[17:45:09] <theBear> unless yer in the mood to rebuild a little carb, for fun like
[17:45:22] <Badaboom> good ole wd40 as a primer
[17:45:41] <RikusW> I was thinking about making something like
http://www.lcdparts.net/LB.aspx
[17:45:50] <RikusW> those are a bit expensive :(
[17:45:59] <theBear> that won't help the mower start !
[17:46:05] <theBear> oh wait #avr <grin>
[17:46:20] <theBear> what, inverter ?
[17:46:37] <theBear> or led backlight or err ?
[17:46:49] <Badaboom> Thats what i thought, its an inverter
[17:46:55] <theBear> aww, what a cute skinny strip, i didn't even see it behidn the inverter
[17:46:59] <RikusW> cfl to led converter kits
[17:47:15] <theBear> hmmm, for little character lcds or monitors ?
[17:47:15] <Badaboom> you want to make one?
[17:47:29] <RikusW> considering it
[17:47:39] <RikusW> my lcd screen died today
[17:47:44] <theBear> i recently stuck a VERY similar looking but fatter led strip in one side of a 19" monitor, didn't look any different to stock
[17:47:45] <RikusW> or rather its cfl did
[17:47:46] <Badaboom> ahh
[17:48:04] <GuShH> heh sorry about thatt
[17:48:09] <RikusW> crt doesn't quite look the same anymore ;)
[17:48:09] <theBear> even did a nice little hack-job so the 2nd-half of the existing inverter/control circuit would run it
[17:48:11] <GuShH> power outage
[17:48:18] <theBear> i forgive you
[17:48:22] <GuShH> running netgear off of just-made ups
[17:48:26] <theBear> but we're past mowers now
[17:48:28] <GuShH> :D
[17:48:30] <GuShH> awww
[17:48:33] <GuShH> damn you.
[17:48:42] <theBear> led ccfl replacement is the new thing, all the kids aren't doing it yet, so it's still cool with me
[17:48:52] <GuShH> don't know what regultor this little board uses but it's quite efficient
[17:48:54] * theBear does the fonz thing with thumbs up and a smile
[17:49:13] <GuShH> now as long as no cat messes with the dangling wires...
[17:49:16] * Badaboom needs 2 3.6 Zeners:(
[17:49:24] <GuShH> you can have some of mine
[17:49:36] <theBear> ahh, i saw earlier when i was too drunk to weigh in... you WERE using the diodes upside down, silly silly
[17:49:38] <GuShH> hmm I might turn this into a online ups for the network stuff
[17:49:45] <Badaboom> I dont want to hack up my circuit to drop it to 3.6
[17:49:52] <GuShH> even if it means the batteries will get cooked in no time
[17:49:54] <theBear> that's why i tried to ask the zener voltage, but in your crazy context my wording was too ambiguous !
[17:50:11] <GuShH> theBear: maybe better to use it as an offline ups with a float charger and a clever circuit?
[17:50:19] <theBear> but everything tom and the others said was quite right :)
[17:50:50] <Badaboom> well, i either use the zeners or hack up the circuit and drop the whole thing to 3.3 to 3.6:(
[17:50:54] <theBear> GuShH, hmmmm.. i dunno... i figure,hmmmm..... what kinda battery ?
[17:51:19] <theBear> Badaboom, a 3.6v zener is really just 6 normal diodes, in my eyes
[17:51:36] <theBear> it's not like a 13v zener, those are a nightmare when you aint got one
[17:51:43] <theBear> or a 42v zener
[17:51:47] <theBear> just 6 !
[17:51:51] <Badaboom> I really dont want to use 6:)
[17:51:58] <theBear> sissy !
[17:51:58] <Badaboom> itll look like shit
[17:52:02] <Badaboom> lmao
[17:52:29] <theBear> i got a reel of cute little err, 914's or something, they look kinda cool solderedin a little sausage
[17:52:42] <theBear> like a little sausages
[17:52:44] <Badaboom> lmfao
[17:53:02] <theBear> that's why foreigners call them links, well, umm, that's actually not why at all
[17:53:11] <theBear> but you get the image
[17:53:19] <Badaboom> yikes
[17:53:24] <theBear> and by that, i mean, you get the picture :)
[17:53:32] <Badaboom> no...
[17:53:42] <theBear> i should start drinking coffee, it's after 6am and i'm not making enough sense with too many words
[17:54:08] <theBear> little cute red diodes end to end, they look like a string of franks
[17:54:27] <theBear> you could make a breakfast themed circuit
[17:54:30] <GuShH> theBear: the only battery I have handy two 6V 10AH lead acid, sealed
[17:54:35] <Badaboom> Im going for pocket programmer not Oscar Myer
[17:54:39] <Badaboom> err meyer
[17:54:41] <theBear> paint the avr like an egg, maybe some bacon resistors
[17:54:46] <GuShH> I ain't got no fancy lithium shit to play with, unless I use the dead laptop's battery but that's flat
[17:54:46] <Badaboom> lol
[17:54:51] <GuShH> actually I should repurpose it for this!
[17:55:04] <theBear> oh, heh, oscar mayer have cool cars
[17:55:06] <GuShH> oh and they're tired SLAs... I wonder how much I'll get out of 'em
[17:55:13] <Badaboom> Ive got plenty of Lithum batteries
[17:55:25] * GuShH is waiting for the coffee... stovetop moka though, no power for anything else
[17:55:35] <theBear> GuShH, hmmm.... if they tired floating is as good as anything, give the float a little extra capability and you won't wear the batts too hard
[17:55:35] <GuShH> I'm starting to feel like one of those guys who lives off grid
[17:55:58] <GuShH> theBear: well generally offline UPS do last longer in the battery department (life wise)
[17:56:10] <GuShH> I'll cook something up and leave it as a permanent UPS type deal
[17:56:16] <theBear> stupid windter, almost 7am and the b+w backyard cam can't even see the ground yet ! it sees sun coming before i can with my bare eyes !
[17:56:20] <theBear> or my bear eyes !
[17:56:30] <GuShH> windter!
[17:56:36] <GuShH> panthers + wind
[17:56:50] <GuShH> at least you've got some cameras installed
[17:56:53] <GuShH> I've got none.
[17:56:58] <GuShH> wifi cams are still too expensive for me
[17:57:00] <theBear> GuShH, hmmm, erm, hmmm... i wonder why, if the trickle has enough wallop to power the equipment and trickle at the same time, what is different ?
[17:57:18] <GuShH> well good question
[17:57:18] <theBear> it's true, but i can tell you almost how to make decent cat5 baluns
[17:57:29] <theBear> or err, how to make almost decent ones
[17:57:42] <GuShH> I'm not making it up though online UPS will kill a battery way faster
[17:57:44] <GuShH> but I see what you mean
[17:57:52] <theBear> if yer in a hurry just a couple common mode chokes from dead atx will do for 50' or more
[17:58:01] <GuShH> if it's being topped off, why is it being "used" I guess electrons from the battery are still in use
[17:58:05] <theBear> i believe you, but i see what i mean too
[17:58:09] <GuShH> or maybe it's the way they keep them charged that kills them
[17:58:18] * GuShH gets ponderous
[17:58:25] <theBear> but then i think offline is trickle/topped up too
[17:58:35] <GuShH> I floated these for weeks non stop using an unregulated tiny wallwart
[17:58:49] <theBear> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gYIbMwswKM this will help
[17:58:53] <GuShH> better than not charging them at all.
[17:59:00] <GuShH> hmm should I watch videos...
[17:59:08] <theBear> it's true, specially tired ones, they like being kept lively
[17:59:12] <GuShH> I gotta save power however I can!
[17:59:25] * GuShH stares at the usb hub
[18:00:10] <GuShH> theBear: maybe newer online UPS are better?
[18:00:14] <GuShH> I never owned one.
[18:00:26] <theBear> i dunno, but the theory is hurting my head
[18:00:32] <GuShH> lol
[18:00:50] <theBear> i wonder, on long long term do sla prefer the odd discharge or just floating ?
[18:00:56] <GuShH> maybe...
[18:00:59] <GuShH> they charge cycle them
[18:01:06] <GuShH> and that's what kills the batteries
[18:01:07] <theBear> i only usually come across them long dead in alarms/door openers
[18:01:18] <GuShH> ie. it's online and it draws off the battery until it's time to charge it, then it gets charged
[18:01:29] <GuShH> now that would explain it, but why would you do that on lead acid?
[18:01:32] <GuShH> makes sense on lithium
[18:01:38] <theBear> but, that kinda stuff is fairly fixed load, , ooooh... i see
[18:01:39] <GuShH> (can you float a lithium in some way that isn't dangerous?)
[18:01:51] <GuShH> also why isn't there a standard lithium based battery for cars
[18:01:55] <theBear> maybe just dumb designers .. not like we aint seen that before
[18:01:57] <GuShH> shit, should I run to patent that idea
[18:02:11] <GuShH> my balls are tingling, it's a good sign.
[18:02:28] <theBear> meh, in a world that you can patent round corners and drawing a line by drawing a pixel then another then another till you got a line, patenting seems kinda pointless
[18:02:47] <GuShH> heh
[18:02:52] <theBear> and the chinese have shown us that you can pretty much sell ANYTHING you can make, at least a few hundred thousand times before anyone stops you
[18:03:05] <GuShH> oh coffee is done
[18:03:14] <theBear> good call, bbl
[18:03:15] <GuShH> the gurgling sound of a stovetop moka pot
[18:05:18] <beaky> hello
[18:06:33] <GuShH> hi beaky
[18:07:16] <GuShH> theBear: hmm I rarely get a blackout but when I do I feel I should've invested on emergency lights and more batteries
[18:07:22] * GuShH idly scratches head
[18:07:48] <GuShH> I should at least get one emergency light, but that means after a few years I need to replace the battery (they still use lead acid, tiny ones) so that's another expense....
[18:08:02] <beaky> hpiuui
[18:08:05] <GuShH> better to add one to the magic all purpose UPS instead
[18:08:11] <GuShH> and a usb output or two.
[18:08:17] <GuShH> the all in one wonder!
[18:08:19] <beaky> how do you powwer an avr?
[18:08:28] <GuShH> hamster
[18:08:30] <beaky> atm i hook it to a 9V battery and a 7805
[18:08:38] <beaky> but its slly
[18:08:39] <GuShH> that's wasteful
[18:08:42] <beaky> silly*
[18:08:46] <GuShH> beaky: depends on what you're doing
[18:08:50] <GuShH> I like lithium cells....
[18:08:55] <GuShH> two of them gets you nearly 9v too
[18:08:55] <beaky> right; would be better to use a coin atteru
[18:08:59] <GuShH> that's a great way to get rid of 9V
[18:09:16] <Horologium> cleaned out the carby best as I could and still the same thing.
[18:09:18] <beaky> what kind odf lithium cell do you use
[18:09:27] <GuShH> Horologium: got a pic of the engine?
[18:09:39] <GuShH> I'm powerless but managed to get back online
[18:09:49] <beaky> all my things ned 5V, but an ordinary cr2032 is onnly 3V, so i use a 9V + 7805
[18:09:58] <GuShH> should be good for 3 hours by my calculations
[18:10:21] <GuShH> I didn't actually measure the amp draw but I'm basing it off the rating of the wallwarts heh
[18:11:13] <GuShH> Horologium: if a 4 stroke engine turns on and then off, we have to determine whether the carb is supplying fuel, there's a main jet that does this. do you have carb cleaner? you can spray a bit as you turn it on and see if you can keep it on by spraying some in, then you've determined the main jet is clogged and it's a fuel delivery issue.
[18:11:43] <GuShH> (so spray it where the air filter goes, remove the air filter while you test)
[18:11:45] <Horologium> no carb cleaner or ether at the moment.
[18:12:03] <Horologium> I just pulled the carb and took it apart and cleaned it with fresh gasoline.
[18:12:07] <GuShH> well, then try to blow air through the fuel line, if it's a briggs you can take out the carb assembly with the fuel tank with 2-3 bolts
[18:12:16] <Horologium> it's an ohv 139cc
[18:12:23] <GuShH> ah so it's not a briggs
[18:12:31] <Horologium> old one was a briggs.
[18:12:37] <GuShH> it fires so you shouldn't suspect anything wrong with the valves (although I'd adjust them anyway heh)
[18:12:38] <Horologium> still have the engine but the carby won't work.
[18:12:45] <GuShH> a kit costs like 10 bucks
[18:12:51] <GuShH> and that's all that gets wrong with them
[18:12:54] <Horologium> it fires up and runs for 2 to 3 seconds.
[18:12:59] <GuShH> the ohv?
[18:13:03] <Horologium> yeah.
[18:13:08] <Horologium> the briggs has a bent main shaft.
[18:13:12] <GuShH> do you have ethanol in your fuel over there?
[18:13:16] <Horologium> yup..10%
[18:13:18] <GuShH> eek
[18:13:26] <GuShH> so you could be looking at damaged fuel lines
[18:13:31] <Horologium> I know, should probably get the better stuff.
[18:13:35] <GuShH> see if your vacuum / return isn't damaged also
[18:13:37] <Horologium> fuel gets into the carby fine.
[18:13:52] <Horologium> didn't pull the vacuum line, however.
[18:13:58] <Horologium> that could be plugged.
[18:14:02] <GuShH> then the membranes could be damaged, or the strainer inside the carb clogged
[18:14:09] <Horologium> which would cause the governator to stop working I suppose.
[18:14:24] <GuShH> more or less, it's just a game of trial and error
[18:14:37] <GuShH> if it starts at least you know you've got good ignition
[18:14:38] <Horologium> http://www.mtdparts.com/equipment/mtdparts/mtd-black-21-139cc-push-mower exact same engine as on this mower.
[18:14:46] <Horologium> starts if you prime it good.
[18:15:02] <Horologium> 6 to 10 pumps.
[18:15:08] <GuShH> yeah almost bought that one
[18:15:25] <GuShH> but got a 158cc briggs instead since the MTD use a chinese copied engine and I didn't want to risk my money heh
[18:15:44] <Horologium> wifey bought this one.
[18:15:52] <Horologium> after she hit something and bent the shaft on the old one.
[18:16:00] <Horologium> less than 2 hours on the old one too.
[18:16:06] <GuShH> these OHVs are very easy to damage, if you were to kick the valve cover, the engine would loose compression (there's very littler clearence with the cover and it would stick the valves open!)
[18:16:11] <Horologium> this one has maybe 4 or 5 hours on it total I think.
[18:16:14] <GuShH> lol
[18:16:31] <Horologium> when we first fired it up today it ran for about 15 minutes before it died.
[18:16:39] <Horologium> so I'm guessing something plugging something up in there.
[18:16:40] <GuShH> uh-oh
[18:16:55] <GuShH> if you've still got compression and ignition yeah, fuel problem.
[18:16:57] <Horologium> now it will start if I prime it but only runs 2 to 3 seconds.
[18:17:11] <GuShH> could be something is clogged or the diaphragm / pump on the carb is at fault
[18:17:16] <Horologium> even tried propping the governor halfway and no difference.
[18:17:18] <GuShH> double check the main jet
[18:17:26] <Horologium> I pulled the main jet and cleaned it.
[18:17:37] <Horologium> pulled everything I could get pulled and cleaned.
[18:17:41] <GuShH> heh
[18:17:55] <Horologium> acts the same way.
[18:18:03] <Horologium> thinking either a carby kit or just a new carby...
[18:18:07] <Horologium> either can't be too expensive.
[18:18:20] <GuShH> the kits are cheap
[18:18:33] <GuShH> but just to be on the safe side, remove the sparkplug and inspect it as well
[18:18:45] <GuShH> you can tell how the engine has been running based on it's condition
[18:19:29] <GuShH> crap I want my power back on :(
[18:20:21] <GuShH> Horologium: when it starts it runs very rough until it dies off, as if it's running lean?
[18:20:26] <beaky> is avr used in cars?
[18:20:31] <Horologium> runs normally.
[18:20:34] <GuShH> probably so
[18:20:35] <Horologium> not rough at all.
[18:20:56] <GuShH> I'm still thinking it's the carby or a vacuum problem :/
[18:21:32] <GuShH> great, now a neighbour's car alarm just went off...
[18:21:33] <Horologium> yeah, same here.
[18:22:05] <GuShH> Horologium: I'm guessing it's not on warranty anymore or the warranty recently expired? heh
[18:22:09] <Horologium> I'm not seeing the governor arm move at all but it might not be running long enough to get a good vacuum built up.
[18:22:24] <GuShH> I'd be blaming the ethanol on all my problems.
[18:22:25] <Horologium> guessing it had a 30 feet or 30 minute warranty...was a 99 dollar special.
[18:22:33] <GuShH> heh
[18:22:36] <GuShH> a return?
[18:22:40] <GuShH> or they were clearing stock
[18:22:45] <Horologium> no, just on clearance.
[18:22:51] <GuShH> I bought a returned chainsaw once, had a bad worm gear (oiler)
[18:22:52] <Horologium> was toward the end of the summer.
[18:23:02] <GuShH> $3 part
[18:23:08] <Horologium> wifey hit something with the good pushymower and bent the shaft.
[18:23:20] <Horologium> so she went out and bought the cheapest mower she could find.
[18:23:28] <GuShH> that's odd, I thought they all came with a key on the blade
[18:23:32] <GuShH> that would shear in that case
[18:24:04] <GuShH> the shaft is part of the crank and it's not a cheap part, it would cost me more than your new mower!
[18:24:21] <Horologium> http://www.mtdproducts.com/equipment/mtdproducts/lawn-and-garden/ProductDetailZoomView?storeId=10500&catalogId=20500&categoryId=1341915&langId=-1&productImagePath=%2fwcpics%2fMTDProducts%2fen_US%2fproducts%2f11A-A0JT706_prod_large.png
[18:24:25] <Horologium> that's the exact mower.
[18:24:30] * GuShH would be going medieval on the shaft's ass to get it straigthened out
[18:24:43] <GuShH> removal isn't easy though
[18:24:47] <Horologium> I don't have much in the way of metalworking gear.
[18:24:57] <Horologium> so straightening the shaft would be difficult at best for me.
[18:25:00] <GuShH> I don't even have an extractor for the bearings
[18:25:18] <GuShH> Horologium: bah if you've got the space, keep the engine at least.
[18:25:59] <Horologium> I've kept it.
[18:26:04] <Horologium> I don't throw much out.
[18:26:06] <GuShH> I've seen that particular MTD model, it's the one I was going to buy.
[18:26:17] <GuShH> But the only OHVs I own are real Hondas
[18:26:25] <GuShH> lol you're like me
[18:26:50] <GuShH> I have a hard time throwing stuff out because you can often see the potential in things and you know if you are going to buy it, it's going to cost you...
[18:26:52] <GuShH> so you keep it
[18:27:48] <Horologium> I'm just a packrat
[18:27:53] <GuShH> :o
[18:27:59] <Horologium> I have an old non-working powerpc mac
[18:28:05] <Horologium> is sitting on a shelf
[18:28:08] <GuShH> Hmm
[18:28:09] <Horologium> I just haven't thrown it out yet.
[18:28:14] <Horologium> no clue if it works or not.
[18:28:16] <GuShH> sell it for a fiver
[18:28:17] <Horologium> no use for it.
[18:28:24] <GuShH> or whatever it's worth
[18:28:30] <GuShH> I don't like macs...
[18:28:30] <Horologium> we are having a big citywide garage sale next month.
[18:28:37] <Horologium> it's going on the quarter pile.
[18:28:37] <GuShH> that's neat
[18:28:37] <beaky> I love pin change interrupts
[18:28:40] <GuShH> we don't do those here
[18:28:45] <Horologium> you should.
[18:28:45] <GuShH> if we did I'd have a lot more tools
[18:28:46] <beaky> interrupts are the best thing about microcontrollers
[18:28:51] <Horologium> start one up.
[18:28:59] <GuShH> where do you start?
[18:29:01] <Horologium> I live in a small town,,,very small.
[18:29:03] <GuShH> talking to neighbours?
[18:29:12] <Horologium> you find a place to have it, put out some fliers asking if neighbors are interested.
[18:29:20] <GuShH> this car alarm.. I swear I'm going to walk all the way to their car and do something to it.
[18:29:24] <Horologium> if they are then put out some fliers advertising when and where.
[18:29:38] <Horologium> there is a big grassy park across the street from me here.
[18:29:44] <GuShH> I think they have a volumetric alarm and they leave the windows down
[18:29:59] <GuShH> (older car I guess)
[18:30:02] <Horologium> winders down, eh?
[18:30:07] <Horologium> catch a snake and toss it in.
[18:30:11] <GuShH> lol
[18:30:14] <Horologium> any old snake.
[18:30:26] <Horologium> most people will seriously freak out if they see a snake in their car while driving.
[18:30:34] <GuShH> oh it's off now... I should really make an air raid siren
[18:30:37] <Horologium> even a little green snakie.
[18:30:40] <GuShH> for these moments
[18:30:46] <GuShH> you make noise? I make more noise.
[18:30:52] <Horologium> why make?
[18:30:58] <GuShH> because I've never found one for sale
[18:31:03] <Horologium> amongst things I have is an old air horn siren.
[18:31:03] <GuShH> they're rare here.
[18:31:10] <GuShH> they do have one at the fire department though
[18:31:10] <Horologium> weighs about 50 pounds.
[18:31:27] <GuShH> yum
[18:31:29] <Horologium> big honking motor spins a squirrel cage fan against a big horn.
[18:31:34] <GuShH> it's odd, whenever there's a fire they start the siren up
[18:31:52] <Horologium> takes several seconds to get up to speed and max volume.
[18:31:53] <beaky> why can atmegas work on such a wide range of voltages, but other electronics need a smaller range
[18:31:58] <GuShH> I bet any old veteran would go mental at it
[18:31:58] <Horologium> but at max volume you can hear it 5 miles away.
[18:32:06] <Horologium> beaky, depends on how they are made..
[18:32:13] <GuShH> they use the siren to alert the fire fighters heh
[18:32:22] <GuShH> why bother with an SMS!
[18:32:28] <GuShH> let's let everyone know there's a fire in town
[18:32:45] <Horologium> the general ATMega microcontroller is designed so...but that design is limiting, specifically in max speed.
[18:32:52] <GuShH> and of course, every dog in town goes nuts
[18:33:17] <beaky> ah
[18:33:27] <beaky> ATmegas are brilliant beasts
[18:33:31] <GuShH> meh
[18:33:41] <Horologium> chips designed to run at higher speeds are also designed for lower voltage and a much narrower voltage range.
[18:33:43] <GuShH> more of a msp430 guy
[18:34:07] <beaky> are there multicore atmegas?
[18:34:13] <Horologium> nope.
[18:34:17] <beaky> like the parallax propeller (8-core 32-bit chip)
[18:34:18] <beaky> ah
[18:34:18] <Horologium> if you want multicore then go ARM
[18:34:27] <Horologium> the propeller multicore chip is,,,,blah.
[18:34:36] <Horologium> it's a time sharing multicore
[18:34:59] <GuShH> I'm so bored...
[18:35:01] <Horologium> and a bitch to program for properly....unless you really like their proprietary programming language.
[18:35:07] <beaky> I like C
[18:35:15] <GuShH> what are you working on beaky?
[18:35:28] <beaky> GuShH: I am working on a thing that will measure height
[18:35:34] <GuShH> theBear: did you lose the fight with the coffee? you've gone missing!
[18:35:44] <beaky> but now I am looking for a proper power source
[18:35:45] <GuShH> beaky: oh and thang that will measure height...
[18:35:48] <Horologium> I need to go take a shower....smell like gasoline.
[18:35:57] <GuShH> if it's portable I'll always suggest go lithium
[18:36:04] <beaky> coin cell battery?
[18:36:08] <GuShH> what's your nominal power draw?
[18:36:17] <GuShH> min, max, average
[18:36:19] <beaky> what's nominal power draw
[18:36:26] <GuShH> tell me your average.
[18:36:26] <Horologium> just watch out for recharging lithium batteries...it can be,,,dangerous.
[18:36:36] <GuShH> Horologium: that's why they make proper charge management ICs
[18:36:39] <Horologium> nominal power draw is how much you draw, on average.
[18:36:44] <beaky> ah
[18:36:45] <Horologium> GuShH, bah....
[18:36:46] <beaky> how do I measure that
[18:36:54] <GuShH> there are tiny boards they sell too, which are ready to use
[18:37:07] <Horologium> local makerspace has concrete lined metal cabinet for charging lithiums.
[18:37:16] <GuShH> LOL
[18:37:19] <beaky> makerspace? like makerbots?
[18:37:21] <Horologium> power won't come on inside until the lid is shut.
[18:37:26] <Horologium> makerspace/hackerspace.
[18:37:27] <GuShH> I'll better keep my thoughts on that one.
[18:37:35] <GuShH> the word starts with F
[18:37:41] <Horologium> they have already had two blow up that I know of.
[18:37:57] <GuShH> I don't know if we have hackerspaces... but if we do, I don't care for them
[18:38:00] <Horologium> in less than a year.
[18:38:10] <Horologium> closest one to me is an hour drive
[18:38:19] <Horologium> and costs 40 dollars a month in dues.
[18:38:24] <Horologium> not worth it to me.
[18:38:27] <GuShH> beaky: you find your minimum and your maximum power draw, then you can average it over time.
[18:38:30] <beaky> ah
[18:38:31] <Horologium> if I lived 5 or 10 minutes away I might join.
[18:38:34] <beaky> how do I measure power?
[18:38:38] <GuShH> beaky: it depends on your application
[18:38:43] <GuShH> we're talking milliamps in this case
[18:38:45] <beaky> i use a multimeter?
[18:38:47] <Horologium> put an ammeter in line with the power source.
[18:38:47] <beaky> ah
[18:38:51] <GuShH> I'm starting to get frustrated.
[18:38:58] <Horologium> and a voltmeter across the power source.
[18:39:05] <GuShH> Horologium: this is why I'd get kicked out of a hackerspace, some things I can't deal with.
[18:39:06] <Horologium> read voltage and amperage at the same time.
[18:39:23] <Horologium> GuShH, it is supposed to be a place to experiment and play.
[18:39:30] <GuShH> I can explain things, but I expect a certain background knowledge... otherwise I get very pissed off.
[18:39:42] <beaky> so my nominal power draw is the product of current and voltage
[18:39:46] <Horologium> I went down there and taught a couple of microcontroller classes.
[18:39:49] * GuShH tends to have a short fuse
[18:39:52] <Horologium> then they discovered the ardweenies.
[18:39:55] <beaky> I will refactor my code to be interrupt driven with embedded sleeps
[18:39:57] <Horologium> and wanted me to teach ardweenie class.
[18:40:00] <GuShH> ...see that would make me very annoyed
[18:40:11] <Horologium> I haven't been back.
[18:40:14] <GuShH> lol
[18:40:24] <beaky> what's so bad about arduino? I kinda like it
[18:40:35] <Horologium> abstraction from everything.
[18:40:38] <GuShH> beaky: the fact that you don't know how to measure power is one reason why arduino is bad for you
[18:40:47] <GuShH> it shields you from reality
[18:40:48] <Horologium> hell, even the C/C++ main() is abstracted for you.
[18:40:50] <GuShH> (tm)
[18:40:50] <beaky> but once I figure out my prototype using the uno I move to vanilla avr and plain ATmega328
[18:41:07] <GuShH> you love it. shield, shields you. I'm a genius.
[18:41:16] * GuShH pats himself
[18:41:19] <beaky> so the bad thing about arduino is that its users don't know anything about electronics?
[18:41:43] <GuShH> it doesn't want you to know. it assumes you are a retarded snail
[18:41:44] <Horologium> beaky, more like they learn bad programming techniques and don't learn anything about the underlying hardware.
[18:41:52] <beaky> ah
[18:41:58] <Horologium> abstraction
[18:42:06] <beaky> arduino is for artists who don't care about good engineering
[18:42:17] <GuShH> I call it obstruction.
[18:42:28] <GuShH> and eventually it turns into destruction.
[18:42:32] <Horologium> this is why there are so many layers to modern computer OSs..
[18:42:42] <Horologium> abstract abstract abstract abstract.
[18:42:43] <beaky> but I thought the arduino folks encouraged folks to learn more about the underlying hardware to get more out of it
[18:42:47] <GuShH> beaky: that's a good way of saying it
[18:42:54] <GuShH> arduino is for baristas as are apple products.
[18:43:01] * GuShH is hated for this
[18:43:23] <Horologium> out of 1000 windows programmers, I bet you won't find 5 who know x86 assembly or how to access i/o ports without using some pre-made lib for it.
[18:43:36] <GuShH> true
[18:44:09] <GuShH> that reminds me I still got two sets of extra intel manuals I don't know what to do with
[18:44:17] <GuShH> because fedex screwed up and lost one box
[18:44:26] <GuShH> then it turned up, but another one was sent in the meantime...
[18:44:53] <GuShH> been hoarding them for no reason other than I'd feel bad to throw them away
[18:45:07] * GuShH thinks it's been 5 years since the last time he ordered them and wonders if they've been updated
[18:45:24] <GuShH> I only had the x86 and they didn't cover x64 arch at the time so I had to update
[18:45:52] <GuShH> and the alarm is back on, great.
[18:46:21] <GuShH> beaky: keep in mind when you measure in series (amperage) that you don't forget your probes on the A - mA setting and try to measure volts afterwards
[18:46:24] <Roklobsta> hmmm ordered what
[18:46:32] <GuShH> Roklobsta: intel manuals
[18:46:46] <GuShH> just an irrelevant story of why I have an extra set new in the box and I never used it
[18:46:56] <beaky> I like fluke multimeters
[18:46:59] <GuShH> they were free, I like hard copies better than PDFs
[18:47:07] <GuShH> beaky: me too, but not everyone can afford them
[18:47:18] <GuShH> do you have a REASON to have fluke?
[18:47:25] <GuShH> other than some fuckwit said they were good?
[18:47:30] <GuShH> (by fuckwit I mean Dave)
[18:47:50] <GuShH> you've been exposed to daveitis and arduinitis, you should seek medical help.
[18:48:05] <beaky> no I just asked the local store dude for a multimeter and he told me it is a good one
[18:48:19] <GuShH> see now I don't know if you are trolling me or not
[18:48:26] <GuShH> they are generally speaking very good instruments
[18:48:32] <GuShH> but you need a reason to have them.
[18:48:46] <GuShH> reliability is a reason why you'd buy a fluke vs a no name china meter.
[18:49:19] <GuShH> so if you are out on the sea in a boat and you need a reliable meter to test the electrical of the boat, sure a fluke is a great idea. it's going to get banged up and whatnot, you want something reliable.
[18:49:38] <GuShH> on a bench, being someone who just picked up electronics.. you don't have a reason for a fluke other than what some idiot said.
[18:49:51] <beaky> yeah :(
[18:49:56] <GuShH> you can put the money on other things in the mean time
[18:50:05] <GuShH> uni-t makes good meters for bench use
[18:50:11] <beaky> everyone told me to buy tools of good name brands so I don't end up screwed
[18:50:18] <GuShH> ut61e is one of the best for 50 bucks you can get anywhere.
[18:50:21] <Roklobsta> i used my tounge. I can tell if a 9V battery really does have 9V or not.
[18:50:37] <GuShH> I can tell if it's got some charge, but I can't tell you if it's at 8 or 9v
[18:50:40] <Roklobsta> tongue even
[18:50:50] <GuShH> it tingles the same for me.
[18:50:56] <Roklobsta> I have a well calibrated tongue. I calibrated it with my Fluke!
[18:51:01] <GuShH> also use your tongue for 380VAC please.
[18:51:27] <GuShH> try your tongue on a star configuration.
[18:51:31] <Roklobsta> I just grab on. I can tell the voltage by how hard I dance.
[18:51:47] <Casper> GuShH: and identify the phase order?
[18:51:56] <GuShH> it would've been funnier if you said "I can tell by how my balls dangle about"
[18:52:04] <GuShH> :p
[18:52:12] <GuShH> Casper: yes!
[18:52:31] * Horologium hugs his flukie clampmeter..
[18:52:31] <GuShH> then go ahead and synch two gensets with your tongue
[18:52:55] <GuShH> yey fire alarm
[18:53:00] * GuShH sighs
[18:53:19] <GuShH> I feel left out, I need a noisy alarm to show I'm worthy of this town
[18:53:21] <Horologium> GuShH, being deaf would have its advantages, eh?
[18:53:49] <Horologium> get some old smoke detectors...run wires all over the building and have them alternate at alternate corners of the building.
[18:53:51] <GuShH> maybe a fart machine and a megaphone would be a good start
[18:54:07] <Horologium> the alarms in smoke detectors are good and loud and annoying.
[18:54:14] <GuShH> yeah but only indoors
[18:54:18] <Horologium> or, get some of the old bells or buzzers from a school.
[18:54:21] <GuShH> I want to annoy everyone, like everyone annoys me.
[18:54:27] <GuShH> I have one of those
[18:54:28] <Horologium> put them outside.
[18:54:33] <GuShH> it used to be the doorbell
[18:55:08] <GuShH> you could hear it across the street, problem is the wiring went bust and I couldn't be bothered to run a new set (50+ meters) so I used a wireless one instead
[18:55:14] <Horologium> or, put a tesla coil on the roof and run a 20 meter wire to some other building with an arc gap at both ends..one end to the tesla, the other to a good ground.
[18:55:28] <Horologium> then fuck with everybody's radio and tv in a 10km radius.
[18:55:30] <GuShH> been meaning to interface one of those cheap modules to a relay output but since I don't have a DSO I can't see what the outputs look like when the button is pushed
[18:55:40] <GuShH> lol
[18:55:54] <GuShH> Horologium: maybe even wifi? or not broad enough spectrum
[18:56:05] <Horologium> wifi close enough would shit itself I'm sure.
[18:56:15] <GuShH> spark gap transmitter... that's how I communicate with the rest of the world.
[18:56:18] <Horologium> maybe 1km range for wifi, depending on the power and frequency of the tesla.
[18:56:19] <GuShH> and the titanic.
[18:56:31] <GuShH> I've actually made a coherer once, found it the other day while tidying up
[18:56:34] <Horologium> that's how marconi started out.
[18:56:39] <GuShH> two bolts, clear pvc tubing and iron shavings
[18:56:46] <Horologium> what's that do?
[18:56:57] <GuShH> once you pass high voltage through it
[18:57:00] <GuShH> it becomes conductive
[18:57:05] <GuShH> the filings somehow "align" and conduct
[18:57:11] <GuShH> if you tap it, becomes non conductive
[18:57:21] <Horologium> I like tall jacobs ladders...2 to 5 meters tall, encased in glass, with a top gap of 1 meter.
[18:57:45] <GuShH> I've fooled around with FBTs and such, love high voltages... but never built an actual tesla coil
[18:58:00] <GuShH> too much power...
[18:58:09] <GuShH> if I do I might go for solid state to begin with
[18:58:12] <Horologium> done properly, with a 2cm spacing between the glass plates, you can get 5 meters tall with a 14KV neon sign transformer.
[18:58:34] <GuShH> it all turns into an expensive hobby after the first or second idea for me though
[18:58:52] <Horologium> I get my neon sign transformers for 2 to 5 dollars used.
[18:59:13] <GuShH> in Argentina everything is made out of Gold by how people try to rip you off.
[18:59:32] <Horologium> jacobs ladder works better when it has a nice case around it..keeps the ionized gas contained so it conducts better.
[18:59:35] <GuShH> stupid country with stupid people and stupid economy
[18:59:48] <Horologium> open air jacobs ladder tends to fade out too fast, specially if there is any breeze.
[19:00:21] <GuShH> 60% remaining on power... still on a massive blackout, weird...
[19:00:24] <Roklobsta> need moar electrons
[19:00:30] <Horologium> however much I hate my country's government, at least there are lots of things to buy cheap here.
[19:00:37] <GuShH> and I've no gasoline for the genset
[19:00:40] <Horologium> time to build a bicycle generator!
[19:00:41] <GuShH> how awesome is that
[19:00:47] <GuShH> I have a proper genset
[19:00:51] <Horologium> guess no car either?
[19:00:55] <Roklobsta> horo: do you live in china?
[19:00:56] <GuShH> I don't stock on fuel because this hardly ever happens.
[19:01:01] <GuShH> Horologium: what if the car is a diesel
[19:01:03] <GuShH> and the genset isn't
[19:01:12] <Horologium> inverter on car battery, car at idle.
[19:01:16] <GuShH> lol
[19:01:16] <Horologium> voila, power.
[19:01:29] <GuShH> no I don't have any inverters.
[19:01:29] <Roklobsta> some veggie oil and a dash of vodka should suffice in the diesel
[19:01:39] <GuShH> Roklobsta: not on modern diesels
[19:01:46] <GuShH> you can't even run regular diesel on them
[19:01:50] <GuShH> the injectors get fouled in no time
[19:01:53] <Horologium> do you have a UPS?
[19:02:04] <GuShH> it's driving the modem, router, etc.
[19:02:10] <Horologium> then you have an inverter.
[19:02:16] <GuShH> it's not an inverter.
[19:02:31] <GuShH> I built it because like I said we never have to deal with these issues.
[19:02:34] <Horologium> no power, running on batteries, giving off mains voltage, yes?
[19:02:50] <Horologium> or just supplying DC to the devices directly?
[19:02:51] <Roklobsta> why is there a balckout
[19:02:58] <GuShH> don't know, haven't called yet
[19:03:03] <GuShH> Horologium: dc-dc
[19:03:38] <GuShH> I don't even have emergency lights installed in the house
[19:03:53] <GuShH> because it would be an extra expense and you hardly have any power faults so why even buy them?
[19:04:00] <Horologium> one of my basic tools in my camping gear is an inverter...used to be a 700W, now is a 1500W
[19:04:05] <Roklobsta> we had one last year, my cheap chinese multimeter showed that the phase slowly drooped from 200V to 60V over the course of 20mins. The plasma TV lasted until about 90V.
[19:04:10] <GuShH> you call that camping
[19:04:24] <Horologium> I use a tent!
[19:04:33] <GuShH> if you need an inverter you are not camping, you just moved a few miles on your truck.
[19:04:35] <Horologium> have a portable water heater and water pump and filter.
[19:04:43] <GuShH> that's not camping sir.
[19:04:48] <GuShH> might as well go to a hotel
[19:04:49] <Horologium> it's fun camping.
[19:04:57] * GuShH eyerolls
[19:05:01] <Roklobsta> just camp under a megavolt line and throw out an inductive loop
[19:05:09] <GuShH> It's ah... moving outdoors for a few days, not camping!
[19:05:14] <GuShH> haha
[19:05:16] <Horologium> that too.
[19:05:26] <Horologium> when I go by myself it's me, a tent, backpack, and some food.
[19:05:32] <Horologium> when I take the wifey, we go all out.
[19:05:40] <Roklobsta> gosh knows they waste so much power making corona discharhes
[19:05:41] <Horologium> our big tent sleeps 10 comfortably.
[19:05:54] <Roklobsta> 10 americans or 10 europeans?
[19:05:55] <Horologium> we have a queen sized double height air mattress with built in pump.
[19:05:56] <GuShH> haha
[19:05:59] <Horologium> 10 americans.
[19:06:02] <GuShH> 10 europeans french kissing
[19:06:04] <Horologium> 30 europeans.
[19:06:08] <GuShH> LOL
[19:06:17] <GuShH> not every american is fat
[19:06:19] <Horologium> the tent is big enough for 3 queen sized beds.
[19:06:23] <GuShH> fuck me
[19:06:30] <GuShH> that's not a tent either
[19:06:34] <Horologium> 14x16.
[19:06:38] <Horologium> cabin tent
[19:06:45] <Horologium> so you can stand up in it all the way to the edges.
[19:06:48] <GuShH> it has AC too?
[19:06:51] <GuShH> you are mental.
[19:06:53] <Roklobsta> 3 american queen size beds or 3 european queen sized beds?
[19:06:56] <Horologium> we do have a portable AC for it, yes.
[19:06:58] <GuShH> hahaha
[19:07:01] <GuShH> THATS NOT CAMPING
[19:07:06] <Horologium> and, yes, I am mental.
[19:07:12] <GuShH> go to a hotel.
[19:07:30] <Horologium> separate shower tent which doubles for a latrine with the little portapot.
[19:07:46] <Horologium> propane fired on demand water heater for showers and washing dishes.
[19:07:50] <GuShH> does it flush to the left side or to the right side?
[19:08:02] <Horologium> chem toilet..no flush.
[19:08:07] <Roklobsta> does the water go clockwise or anticlockwise?
[19:08:07] <GuShH> does it have a reverse osmosis setup too?
[19:08:16] <Horologium> although, the wife generally uses the litter box at night.
[19:08:22] <GuShH> tmi
[19:08:31] <Horologium> no, I haven't gotten a reverse osmosis kit,,,yet.
[19:08:37] <GuShH> haha
[19:08:45] <GuShH> get one with a pump
[19:08:45] <Horologium> litter box being a 5 quart bucket half full of kitty litter that stays in the tent.
[19:08:54] <Horologium> I want the one with the hand pump.
[19:08:55] <GuShH> you crazy cats
[19:09:06] <Roklobsta> just use redneck osmosis... force the toilet water through some old nylon pantyhose. The corn doesn't get through the little gaps in the 'hose.
[19:09:10] <GuShH> don't you hand pump enough when you camp out?
[19:09:16] <GuShH> specially if you're camping alone.
[19:09:23] <Horologium> hey, the kitty litter bucket works great for the wife.
[19:09:25] <GuShH> I bet that's all most people do when they go camping.
[19:09:29] <Horologium> naaa.
[19:09:35] <GuShH> your wife is NOT a cat!
[19:09:42] <Horologium> I'm usually too tired to do anything once I go to bed when camping.
[19:09:48] <GuShH> that's not camping though
[19:09:51] <Horologium> GuShH, no, but it works.
[19:09:57] <GuShH> I bet you don't even chop wood, you bring a log splitter with you
[19:10:00] <GuShH> Haha
[19:10:02] <Horologium> bah.
[19:10:03] <theBear> have you met his wife ? she might be a cat
[19:10:08] * GuShH rofls
[19:10:13] <GuShH> he doesn't camp he MOVES OUT
[19:10:14] <Horologium> double bladed axe, splitting maul, and a 9 pound sledge.
[19:10:24] <GuShH> "and this trailer? what is it for?" "my hand lotions"
[19:10:28] <Horologium> and a bowsaw.
[19:10:31] <Roklobsta> nah, he's got a crate of BBQ lihghters to keep warm with
[19:10:31] <theBear> hehe
[19:10:40] <GuShH> he needs a chainsaw.
[19:10:53] <Horologium> wife does use a propane handtorch with trigger start for starting fires though.
[19:11:01] <Horologium> have a chainsaw..it usually doesn't go camping with us though.
[19:11:04] <Roklobsta> it's an electric chainsaw, hence the inverter.
[19:11:15] <GuShH> that's odd
[19:11:19] <GuShH> everything goes but the chainsaw?
[19:11:26] <GuShH> Roklobsta: LOL
[19:11:28] <Horologium> gotta rough it somehow.
[19:11:51] <GuShH> you know it's getting cold now...
[19:11:57] <GuShH> no power for the furnace blower
[19:12:08] <Horologium> the 700 watt inverter is now built into my truck so I have a mains outlet in the dashboard.
[19:12:09] <GuShH> I should move to Horologium's "tent" 'til the power comes back on
[19:12:15] <Horologium> come on up.
[19:12:19] <Horologium> can put you up in the back yard.
[19:12:26] <Roklobsta> horo: cool so you can shave and charge your iphone when driving.
[19:12:29] <GuShH> saaawwweeet
[19:12:37] <Horologium> might have to fight the ducks for access to the pond water though.
[19:12:43] <GuShH> Roklobsta: inverters on cars are ok
[19:12:47] <GuShH> I don't have anything to say about that.
[19:12:54] <GuShH> nor computers on cars... no problem with that.
[19:13:06] <Horologium> Roklobsta, actually, it's used mainly for charging my work computer between stops.
[19:13:07] * Roklobsta wishes edison had won and we'd all have 100VDC mains
[19:13:16] <GuShH> only 100vdc?
[19:13:23] <GuShH> I'm glad Edison didn't win.
[19:13:24] <Horologium> Roklobsta, and generators at every third street corner.
[19:13:26] <GuShH> that bastard
[19:13:37] <Horologium> with either natural gas or steam fed to them.
[19:13:41] <GuShH> LOL
[19:13:50] <GuShH> oh and noisy too.
[19:13:52] <Roklobsta> nah, edison had visions of elepahnts powering treadmills on every street corner.
[19:13:53] <Horologium> in big cities they were to be steam powered.
[19:14:06] <Horologium> in rural areas, natural gas.
[19:14:11] <GuShH> Roklobsta: no, he had visions of killing elephants, then he went ahead and killed some.
[19:14:27] <Roklobsta> well, that's what you do to keep the elephants in line
[19:14:33] <GuShH> :o
[19:14:39] <GuShH> I need an IRC thin client..
[19:14:49] <GuShH> with very low power draw
[19:14:58] <Roklobsta> iphone?
[19:15:00] <Roklobsta> ipad?
[19:15:00] <Horologium> android tablet with androirc
[19:15:04] <GuShH> I said low power draw
[19:15:07] <GuShH> and I'm not gay so no.
[19:15:15] <GuShH> I won't ever buy an apple product.
[19:15:17] <Horologium> android cellphone with same software.
[19:15:23] <Roklobsta> hmmm, time for an avr with lwip and a tiny irc client
[19:15:23] <GuShH> maybe.
[19:15:26] <GuShH> you can even go leaner though
[19:15:28] <GuShH> with a micro
[19:15:36] <GuShH> Roklobsta: that's it
[19:15:44] <GuShH> regular keyboard interface...
[19:15:48] <Roklobsta> just need a PC to plug the serialport into.
[19:15:50] <GuShH> e-ink display maybe
[19:16:00] <Horologium> write an irc client for the avr with an eink display
[19:16:10] <GuShH> someone already did that but with VGA
[19:16:14] <Horologium> don't need a pc...there is an ardweeny wifi board!
[19:16:25] <GuShH> ethernet vga and whatnot
[19:16:27] <Horologium> or go wired with an enc28j60.
[19:16:36] <GuShH> arduinot.
[19:16:44] <GuShH> I said power efficient.
[19:16:50] <GuShH> you managed to mix wifi with arduino
[19:16:55] <GuShH> it's already useless.
[19:16:58] <Horologium> hehe.
[19:17:10] <Horologium> so go avr with an enc28j60.
[19:17:24] * GuShH imagines a massive tower of shitty boards hooked up to each other with 400 jumper wires balancing on a corner
[19:17:30] <Horologium> gotta go get my hairs cut...bbiaf.
[19:17:35] <GuShH> all to be enclosed in tupperware
[19:17:47] <GuShH> alright, do not tell us which hairs please.
[19:18:47] <damjan> has anyone analyzed the problem with irc clients on Android? I suspect that they force the wifi to on all the time, so that's why they are not power efficient
[19:18:59] <GuShH> maybe so
[19:19:20] <GuShH> too bad there's no commercial product (a thin irc client with built in e-ink screen)
[19:19:25] <damjan> so maybe there's a need for a custom protocol that can put the wifi to sleep
[19:19:45] <Roklobsta> sounds like a kickstarter project.
[19:19:46] <damjan> GuShH: you can root a Kindle and install whatever :)
[19:20:01] <GuShH> kindles are for old women.
[19:20:10] <Roklobsta> if some can convince others to cough up for $79 wifi LED light bulbs, eink irc lcient should be easy
[19:20:13] <GuShH> iphones for baristas.
[19:20:29] <damjan> GuShH: you asked for e-ink, what's better than a kindle
[19:20:30] <GuShH> Roklobsta: oh you mean those starter up websites
[19:20:33] <GuShH> what a bunch of bullshit
[19:20:36] <GuShH> do they really make millions?
[19:20:47] <GuShH> damjan: well fair enough
[19:21:01] <beaky> How do I program my avr
[19:21:05] <Roklobsta> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/limemouse/lifx-the-light-bulb-reinvented
[19:21:06] <beaky> if I clock it to 128KHz
[19:21:06] <GuShH> I signed up to one once, now I get daily mails with bullshit projects
[19:21:08] <Roklobsta> <sigh>
[19:21:18] <GuShH> Roklobsta: I would kick start their ass.
[19:21:21] <GuShH> or skull
[19:21:22] <GuShH> whatever came first.
[19:21:36] <GuShH> the latter would most likely be a kick end if you get what I mean!
[19:22:09] <Roklobsta> i see no benefit
[19:22:30] <Roklobsta> seriously, who the fsck keeps their iphone on their person all the time at home?
[19:22:39] <beaky> so its not a good idea to run an avr at 128 KHz
[19:22:41] <beaky> ?
[19:23:00] <Roklobsta> if you have to get up to dim the lights on the iphone, you can get up to do the same on a wall dimmer
[19:23:03] <beaky> I will overclock it to 8Mhz then
[19:23:08] <Roklobsta> beaky: avr can go to 0Hz
[19:23:50] <beaky> wow it can?
[19:23:56] <Roklobsta> low frequencies might only be a problem if you have computational speed issues or need to use a device that has timers/clocks like the serial port .
[19:24:03] <beaky> how do you program it at that low hz?
[19:24:21] <Roklobsta> beaky: it says right htere in the data sheet. 0Hz to 16MHz
[19:24:42] <beaky> ah I thought the mega328p can go up to 20 :(
[19:24:49] <Roklobsta> ok 20
[19:24:52] <Roklobsta> maybe
[19:25:07] <Roklobsta> sure you can push them past 16MHz but noone guaranetess anythings
[19:25:21] <damjan> Roklobsta: you can do the same from your tablet or laptop too, I guess :)
[19:25:30] <GuShH> Roklobsta: my brother does
[19:25:35] <damjan> and I'm almost never without them at home :)
[19:25:42] <GuShH> currently owns 3 iphones
[19:25:43] <damjan> *one of them
[19:26:10] <GuShH> an ipad (had two at one point I think) a macbook air
[19:26:19] <beaky> imagine an avr running at 80Mhz
[19:26:22] <beaky> or even 600MHz
[19:26:31] <beaky> how cool would that be
[19:26:33] <GuShH> why not more than a ghz
[19:26:42] <GuShH> GO BIG OR GO HOME
[19:26:45] <beaky> like 1.6Ghz like my atom?
[19:26:45] <Roklobsta> the kid across the road spent money getting his iphone glass replaced. now he's discovered the antennas are broken. I'd wanna punch the glass fixer guy.
[19:26:57] <GuShH> lol
[19:27:07] <beaky> anyone tried overclocking an avr? how far did you go
[19:27:08] <GuShH> Roklobsta: I'd punch them both for good measure
[19:27:12] <beaky> my professor managed 20mhz
[19:27:13] <Roklobsta> true
[19:27:31] <Roklobsta> No Sigal for 3G and wifi works if he stands right next to the AP
[19:27:32] <GuShH> don't drop your iphone kids, you'll cry like a bitch.
[19:27:43] <GuShH> it's broken or disconnected?
[19:27:49] <GuShH> I bet they're disconnected.
[19:28:01] <Roklobsta> i bought a defy+ on special for $99. CynogenMod 10 and if I drop it, I won't dry.
[19:28:06] <Roklobsta> cry
[19:28:17] <GuShH> I use an old phone and I don't care if it falls but when it does nothing seems to happen
[19:28:20] * GuShH shrugs
[19:28:21] <Roklobsta> i never opened one... so i don't know how they areconnected
[19:28:31] <GuShH> most people don't even know how to make a call with their cellphone these days
[19:28:32] <GuShH> lol
[19:28:42] <GuShH> Roklobsta: you need to take it all apart
[19:28:51] <GuShH> in the process you disconnect a few things.
[19:29:02] <GuShH> reversal of that to assemble it back involves connecting them back on, if you forget....
[19:29:07] <Roklobsta> is thete an mmcx type connector for the antennas or one of those press fit flexipcb types?
[19:29:18] <GuShH> I've fixed a few phones for fun, some people do it for a living... I feel bad and sorry for them
[19:29:28] <GuShH> it's like web developers you know, can't help but feel bad for those
[19:29:39] * GuShH tries not to laugh
[19:29:48] <Roklobsta> oh god. CSS/HTML/JS can kiss my fat hairt arse
[19:30:04] <Roklobsta> so can SQL
[19:30:14] <GuShH> I don't really hate SQL
[19:30:23] <Roklobsta> nor do i
[19:30:23] <GuShH> but if it involves data entry then it's like webdev
[19:30:25] <Roklobsta> it's boring
[19:30:39] <GuShH> most this stuff is mundane
[19:30:44] <Horologium> beaky, overclocked an atmega32 to 20mhz...normally 16....and an atmega1284p to 32mhz..normally 20..
[19:31:06] <GuShH> and I've got 49% remaining power :( sigh
[19:31:08] <Horologium> beaky, however, the ADCs didn't work.
[19:31:14] <beaky> ah
[19:31:33] <GuShH> maybe I could cook up a genset with one of my chainsaws.. yeh...
[19:31:40] <GuShH> it would sound lovely too
[19:31:46] <Roklobsta> and smokey
[19:31:51] <GuShH> yum
[19:31:54] <GuShH> love 2 stroke exhaust
[19:31:59] <Roklobsta> died from CO poisoning while on IRC
[19:32:05] <GuShH> hahah
[19:32:12] <GuShH> I've a CO2 monitor here...
[19:32:22] <Roklobsta> not good enough for Co
[19:32:23] <Roklobsta> O
[19:32:25] <GuShH> :(
[19:32:45] <Roklobsta> the CO steals oxygen, CO2 just crowds it out
[19:32:57] <GuShH> so one is a politician, the other a hipster
[19:33:06] <Roklobsta> mmm
[19:33:24] <GuShH> ones a jew, the other is attending to the batican.
[19:33:35] <GuShH> you know there's a reason jews have big noses...
[19:33:39] * GuShH runs away
[19:33:48] <beaky> I have an ATmega1284p, but I can't find a use for it :(
[19:33:59] <GuShH> set it on fire
[19:34:04] <beaky> since an ATmega328p is almost as spacy memory-wise, but more compact
[19:34:04] <GuShH> I'm sure you'll find a use eventually
[19:34:12] <beaky> and also cheaper on digikey
[19:34:23] <beaky> and arduino uses it
[19:34:29] <GuShH> eek
[19:34:39] <GuShH> hmmm
[19:34:55] <GuShH> bbl
[19:37:26] <Roklobsta> hmmm, 329 lines into an AVRtask scheduler. Time to test the fscker later
[19:38:20] <Horologium> 328 has 1/4 the memory.
[19:38:26] <Horologium> heck, less than that of sram
[19:41:37] <beaky> right :(
[19:41:50] <beaky> the ATmega1284p is like the best avr in DIP package
[19:42:13] <beaky> but its too much for my noobish needs :(
[19:42:21] <beaky> it can probably emulate a NES
[19:42:26] <beaky> too powerful :D
[19:44:21] * Roklobsta gawks
[19:44:25] <Roklobsta> too powerful?
[19:44:59] * Roklobsta wonders how a 20MHz AVR compares to those 100MHz 8051s .
[19:45:56] <beaky> but avrs run at 1 instruction per cycle. 8051 needs like 10 cycles per instruction
[19:46:02] <beaky> because they use x86
[19:46:14] <Horologium> no
[19:46:37] <Horologium> some modern 8051/2 chips run at 1 instruction per cycle.
[19:46:54] <beaky> btw why is 8051 criticized over avr?
[19:46:56] <Horologium> the ds89c450 which I use runs at 33MHz/~33MIPS
[19:47:03] <Horologium> because it is old.
[19:47:05] <beaky> ah
[19:47:14] <beaky> isn't avr old too?
[19:47:17] <Horologium> and doesn't have all the nifty new peripherals.
[19:47:39] <beaky> so 8051 doesn't have toys like pwm and adc?
[19:47:50] <beaky> or uart, usb, vga, ethernet, etc?
[19:47:51] <Horologium> 8051/2 also has the added advantage of being able to run program from external memory.
[19:48:01] <theBear> you gotta stop trying to sum everything up with little statements.. everything is different, different processors have pros and cons and numbers and specs, different components are the same, etc etc
[19:48:03] <Horologium> avr doesn't have vga or ethernet.
[19:48:13] <Roklobsta> 8051 has a native stack that lives in the 1st 256 bytes
[19:48:13] <Horologium> theBear, agreed totally.
[19:48:16] <theBear> avr is young, both the archtiecture and the series
[19:48:40] <Horologium> I bet you will find more 8051 or 8052 chips in commercial products than avr and pic combined.
[19:48:46] <Roklobsta> so even if youhave 64kB hooked up you can't use push and pop beyound 1st 256 bytes
[19:49:04] <Horologium> true.
[19:49:26] <theBear> i'll take that bet, anyone for avr+pic combined ?
[19:49:38] * Horologium puts his quarter on the table.
[19:49:43] <theBear> takers takers ? there ARE a LOT of cheap things that only need simple single chip 20pin micros these days
[19:49:50] <Roklobsta> i had difficulties once with an 8051 occasionaly conspiring to go over the top of the allocated stack
[19:49:56] * theBear gets out his blackboard and trademark silly chequered suit and matching hat
[19:49:58] <Horologium> there are 28pin 8051 chips out there.
[19:50:05] <theBear> i said 20 ! <grin>
[19:50:20] <Horologium> hehe
[19:50:26] <Horologium> so don't use the extra 8 pins.
[19:50:28] <Horologium> sheesh.
[19:50:34] <Roklobsta> the 8051 from SILABS was OK - internal flash, 100MHz ALU clock and a code cache! Plus 1/2 cycle ops.
[19:50:35] <Casper> now...
[19:50:46] <Casper> how do I print this on... an aluminium bar...
[19:51:02] <Roklobsta> some kind of anodising process
[19:52:17] <Roklobsta> the 8051 compilers with small and medium memory models and stack/function overlays were nice.
[19:52:22] <theBear> i think horologium wins the bet, but avr is definately creeping, hopefully pic is going backwards :)
[19:52:41] <theBear> oh wait, do we count one product sold a million times once or a million times ?
[19:52:50] <Horologium> Casper, inkjet with iodine ink...
[19:53:01] <Casper> I have a laser printer :/
[19:53:10] <Casper> oh I think I still have... something
[19:53:26] <Horologium> iodine will etch the aluminum nicely.
[19:53:33] <Roklobsta> yeah, just grab some betadine and an earbud
[19:54:23] <Horologium> theBear, it won't be long till avr and pic catch up but there are manufacturers out there who have used the 8051 series from the beginning.
[19:54:33] <theBear> it's true
[19:54:34] <Casper> let's see if it print correctly on label...
[19:54:37] <Casper> it's a cutting guide
[19:54:46] * theBear tries to remember what martin used before avrs were around
[19:54:48] <Horologium> heck, this microwave I bought 4 years ago and had to replace the door switch on has an 8051 series chip in it.
[19:54:54] <Roklobsta> i think 8051 is also royalty/patent free now
[19:54:57] <theBear> probly 8051, maybe the odd 68k
[19:54:59] <Casper> ... almost... the label wasn't wide enought :D
[19:55:31] <theBear> i can see the pcbs, big fat dips on most of the pre 2000s models, but, i wasn't really interested in what proc it was for repairs
[19:55:56] <Horologium> someone mentioned the other day flea86....an 8051 emulating an x86 processor at like 8mhz...the chip runs at 100mhz.
[19:56:31] <Horologium> we work on folding machines at the office and most of those have an 8051 for the controller.
[19:56:49] <theBear> but damn, it's impressive !
[19:57:06] <theBear> pretty sure he's the one with emulated vga and network cards on the same setup
[19:57:12] <Horologium> yup
[19:57:32] <Horologium> could probably get linux running on it with a little work.
[19:58:07] <Horologium> remember the guy who first did bitbanged USB on the avr?
[19:58:15] <theBear> pretty sure he's still in xt land, not sure he wants to move on, maybe 16bit actually...
[19:58:19] <Roklobsta> abcmini?
[19:58:19] <theBear> that foreign dude ?
[19:58:20] <Horologium> the one that the atmel AVR appnote is built on..
[19:58:32] <theBear> err, igor ?
[19:58:34] <Horologium> not vusb which is a knockoff.
[19:58:36] <Horologium> yeah..igor.
[19:58:43] <theBear> awesome ! remembered without cheating
[19:58:46] <Roklobsta> Igor SMASH
[19:58:46] <Horologium> did you ever see his bitbanged ethernet?
[19:58:50] <theBear> IGORplug
[19:58:58] <theBear> udp send only ?
[19:59:08] <Horologium> couldn't receive, but could send single packets over ethernet.
[19:59:17] <theBear> MAYBE, or maybe i just guessed that <grin>
[19:59:17] <Badaboom> well I just searched for 3.6 or 3.3 and no luck:(
[19:59:33] <Badaboom> Found alot of others
[19:59:42] <theBear> since i still got a bunch of pre-usb avrs, no usb ones, and no money in the forseeable future, i'm quite familiar with and interested in his work :)
[19:59:43] <Roklobsta> well any fool can bit band anyting. this fool has had to bit band rs232 and SPI on a parallel port in the past
[20:00:01] <theBear> i get the feeling lufa has caught up a bit, but never looked into it
[20:00:17] <Horologium> http://elks.sourceforge.net/ there ya go...linux for 8086.
[20:00:18] <Roklobsta> lufa eats all your cycles
[20:00:20] <theBear> Roklobsta, yeah, but usb and ethernet speeds on a 8-20mhz avr is pretty damned impressive
[20:00:36] <Roklobsta> worst ethernet speeds. ever.
[20:00:36] <theBear> but wha huh ?
[20:00:52] <theBear> hmmm, kernel subset eh
[20:00:59] <Horologium> yeah.
[20:01:01] <Horologium> but still.
[20:01:04] <theBear> interesting
[20:01:32] <theBear> i'm constantly entertained by how the latest hard work coding and compiler improvements make older hardware work better than it EVER did when it was current :)
[20:01:34] <Badaboom> Oh where oh where did the 3.6zener go oh where oh where did it go
[20:02:29] <Horologium> Badaboom, put 2 regular diodes in parallel then that in series with the 3.3
[20:02:31] <Horologium> gets close.
[20:02:45] <Roklobsta> tehbear bt it's always to a point
[20:02:46] <Horologium> kinda.
[20:03:24] <Roklobsta> the .net CLR apparently doesn't do any kind of vectoring so the SSE and MMX goes to waste on maths jobs
[20:03:29] <Horologium> "Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers
[20:03:29] <Horologium> and deluge the hobby market with good software." -- Bill Gates 1976
[20:03:29] <Horologium> We are still waiting ....
[20:04:28] <Badaboom> Horolmao
[20:05:12] <Horologium> I can't claim the response as mine...it was from one of the ELKS pages.
[20:05:21] <Casper> :D almost done doing the calculations :D
[20:09:26] <Roklobsta> I saw Windows 2.0 once. <shudder>
[20:09:27] <Badaboom> Horologium: second schematic down ...
http://vusb.wikidot.com/hardware?
[20:09:52] <Badaboom> 4.7 acting as a load cap
[20:10:13] <inflex> lo Badaboom
[20:10:20] <inflex> hiya Casper , Tom_itx , theBear
[20:10:26] <Badaboom> heya:)
[20:10:40] <Casper> hi inflex
[20:10:40] <Badaboom> Ill be on it tomorrow
[20:10:42] * inflex goes and orders a box of solder braid
[20:10:43] <Horologium> Badaboom, that's just to get from 5V down to 3.3Vish to run the chip...if you mean the diodes in series.
[20:11:04] <inflex> not a good way to drop to 3.3V
[20:11:22] <inflex> diodes are so unpredictable in low current range there
[20:11:23] <Horologium> the cap just does some smoothing.
[20:11:28] <Badaboom> yeah but i dont have 3.3 or 3.6 zeners
[20:11:54] <inflex> use a LED as a zener :)
[20:12:05] <Badaboom> Ive read that,, a blue one right?
[20:12:10] <Badaboom> or white
[20:12:34] <Horologium> no 3.3V regulator?
[20:12:36] <Badaboom> Hell Ladyada's latest design on that used 1 on each line
[20:12:44] <Badaboom> Horologium: nope:(
[20:13:47] <Horologium> that second schematic works...but is the least stable of the three.
[20:14:14] <Horologium> specially as the power out of your usb port can be anywhere between 4.25 and 5.5 volts.
[20:14:17] <Badaboom> yeah i read that too
[20:14:25] <Badaboom> yep
[20:14:29] <Badaboom> sigh
[20:14:43] <Badaboom> i think option 4 is to wait for zeners:)
[20:14:58] <Horologium> yup.
[20:15:13] <Horologium> or start tearing gear apart until you find some.
[20:15:15] * Casper loves eagles
[20:15:20] <Casper> even for non-electronics related stuff
[20:15:20] <Badaboom> The plane has killed our budget for this month leaving me no extra $$
[20:16:22] <Horologium> most of my electronics parts inventory has come from tearing stuff apart.
[20:16:26] <Badaboom> Thats what we get for allowiing an a-hole who lands on the nose to hard :(
[20:16:53] <Badaboom> Horologium: ive looked, any suggestions as to what may have a coulle?
[20:16:58] <Badaboom> couple
[20:18:26] <Badaboom> It's funny its things like 74hc595's 3.6v Zeners that should be on hand for this sort of thing
[20:18:45] <Badaboom> well the 595's just as a general purpose
[20:18:49] <Casper> so... bracket try #2...
[20:18:58] <Badaboom> {}
[20:20:21] <GuShH> yey
[20:20:32] <Badaboom> Power?
[20:20:38] <GuShH> yerp
[20:21:12] <GuShH> now what?
[20:21:15] * GuShH blinks
[20:36:28] <Horologium> Badaboom, TV, UPS, computer.
[20:37:09] <Badaboom> will a phillips 60" fork?
[20:37:14] <Badaboom> lmao,, jk
[20:37:20] <Badaboom> work
[20:38:44] <Horologium> dunno.
[20:43:34] <wstraus> I think I've got a problem with my trace length for an ICSP header on this board I made. Anyone know how forgiving ICSP can be about that?
[20:44:27] <Horologium> wstraus, depending on your programmer, anywhere up to 2 feet works usually.
[20:45:16] <Horologium> my parallel port programmer has a 2 foot cable between the computer and the 74125 chip and another 1 foot between the chip and the end of the cable.
[20:46:31] <wstraus> I could not get avrdude to connect with this board using while plugging into the header I designed into it but, I just soldered some tiny wires as close to the pins as I could and avrdude connected no problem.
[20:47:15] <Horologium> then something wrong with your pinout on the board maybe?
[20:47:18] <Horologium> or a broken trace?
[20:48:27] <theBear> my first unbuffered parport was about 3-4" unshielded and it was fine as fast as the computers of the day could go
[20:48:33] <wstraus> I'm more thinking I've got a few mm longer trace on my MOSI pin then I do on my SCK pin throwing off the timing.
[20:48:58] <Horologium> that shouldn't make any difference.
[20:49:22] <Horologium> 6 inches, maybe.
[20:49:26] <Horologium> MAYBE
[20:49:29] <theBear> 12" MAYBE
[20:49:37] <theBear> nah screw that, 12'
[20:49:37] <wstraus> hmm, I'm kinda lost on this then.
[20:49:40] <Horologium> but at the speeds that thing runs for programming, not bloody likely.
[20:49:42] <theBear> you'll be lost to noise before timing
[20:49:59] <theBear> and by noise, i mean from voltage drop over your 12' of wire :)
[20:50:03] <Horologium> I still say either pinout on your header is wrong or you have a broken line somewhere.
[20:50:34] <Horologium> theBear, I've done unbuffered as much as 16 inches from the parallel port unshielded.
[20:51:15] <theBear> i just said several feet, i could go measure it if yer want (can't destroy my first ever programmer, the one that started my avr adventure after an abcmini AND maxi board opened my eyes)
[20:51:25] <theBear> i couldn't afford them tho :)
[20:51:29] <Horologium> hacked off the end of a printer cable and did some wire wrap magic to some header pins that got stuck into a breadboard for an impromptu avr programmer just for the hell of it one day at a friend's house.
[20:51:38] <wstraus> I've triple checked the pinout. And I've watched the communication on my o-scope so I'm sure the traces arn't broken.
[20:52:03] <inflex> urrrrigh, put $600 in to my account this morning from weekend trading... now I'm broke again
[20:52:25] <Horologium> wstraus, something isn't hooked up right there...
[20:52:44] * inflex hates bills... and having to restock stuff. $300 in iphone screens alone!
[20:53:25] <Horologium> inflex, you aren't buying from the right fence then.
[20:53:43] <beaky> hllo
[20:53:45] <inflex> O_o ?
[20:53:51] <inflex> right fence?
[20:54:11] <wstraus> Let me check it all out again. brb
[20:58:06] <Horologium> fence, as in buying stolen goods.
[21:01:34] <inflex> oh right, yeah, stolen goods don't do me much good.
[21:09:25] <wstraus> Horologium: you were right about the bad connection. The header is working now. I guess something got fixed when I was soldering those wires down.
[21:11:19] <Horologium> imagine that.
[21:13:12] <wstraus> I was checking everything I could think of earlier. Don't know what I missed but I'm glad it's working now.
[21:13:47] <theBear> hehe
[21:14:22] <Horologium> daym.
[21:14:28] <theBear> oh, i get it, sarcasm ! the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded.
[21:14:32] <theBear> *BAM*
[21:14:32] <Horologium> I actually helped someone.
[21:14:37] <theBear> bada-BOOM
[21:14:46] <Horologium> what the fuck is wrong with me today?!
[21:15:28] <Horologium> I was actually nice to someone on #electronics on dalnet when everybody else was being a prick to the idiot.
[21:15:30] <theBear> heh, don't feel bad, i almost did the same in the php channel i somehow inherited management of a year or 2 back :)
[21:15:40] <theBear> i haven't programmed php for probably 10 years :)
[21:15:54] <theBear> WAY longer than the last time i actually programmed an avr
[21:16:05] <Horologium> you should moderate it and take voice from everybody.
[21:18:37] <Horologium> then setup a bot that randomly voices one person at a time for 5 minutes at a time.
[21:18:51] <wstraus> So, around what speeds do you need to start worrying about matching trace lengths?
[21:19:39] <Horologium> wstraus, 100MHz.
[21:19:52] <Horologium> depending on what you are doing too.
[21:20:30] <wstraus> Good to know.
[21:21:09] <Horologium> if you are measuring or dealing with sub nanosecond timings things get hairy with different length wires
[21:22:34] <wstraus> How about USB? Because I was blaming trace length on another board I made thats not working.
[21:23:01] <Horologium> an inch either way shouldn't matter with usb1 or 2
[21:23:28] <Horologium> 1.5MHz or 12MHz.
[21:23:36] <Horologium> but usb can be picky with other things.
[21:23:56] <wstraus> hmm, nope that board isn't even an inch long.
[21:24:18] <Horologium> look close at voltages on usb...can be picky there...
[21:24:29] <Horologium> as well as noise from surrounding traces.
[21:25:49] <wstraus> Yea, I kinda decided I needed to do a little learning by the time I gave up on that board.
[21:26:01] <Horologium> but, at times, it can behave nicely with the sloppiest of connections and setups.
[21:26:12] <Valen> anybody here played with some sort of plugin PID module?
[21:26:12] <wstraus> Maybe I'll try USB again later.
[21:26:16] <Horologium> I've done bitbanged USB on an avr on a solderless breadboard and it worked.
[21:26:28] <Valen> I'm looking for one thats lightish but most of all simple to use
[21:26:35] <Horologium> Valen, that is a very narrow question....NOT...
[21:26:39] <Valen> heh
[21:26:44] <Valen> i meant code for an AVR
[21:26:49] <Horologium> oh.
[21:26:51] <wstraus> Horologium: Wow that sounds cool.
[21:27:15] <Horologium> wstraus, vUSB...fun to play with but I wouldn't use it for a commercial project.
[21:27:46] <Horologium> can be flaky at times, specially on notebooks with very strict USB hardware.
[21:28:09] <Horologium> Valen, I've done some PID in the past but not with any kind of library.
[21:28:09] <wstraus> I'll take your word for it.
[21:28:39] <Horologium> older USB hardware seems to work better with vUSB.
[21:42:15] <beaky> so the first 255 avrs are reserved for bytes?
[21:42:25] <beaky> first 255 bytes* reserved for the avr
[21:42:31] <beaky> 256*
[21:51:28] <inflex> Horologium: found that myself as well. USB1.1 ports run much faster with the flashing than USB 2
[21:51:39] <RikusW> beaky: rams starts at 0x60 or 0x100
[21:53:47] <beaky> ah
[21:53:56] <beaky> even for things like the ATtiny?
[21:56:02] <inflex> yes
[21:56:28] <inflex> Pull up the data sheet, check "SRAM Data Memory" section
