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[00:20:06] <thetruthisoutthe> stanreg <= 2n7002, bs170 can do 500mA and can be switched with one io port.
[00:20:35] * stanreg googles bs170
[00:21:50] <stanreg> nice
[01:14:46] <stanreg> So this condition works fine (executes when PB.2 = 1): if (PINB & (1<<PB2))
[01:14:59] <stanreg> Whereas this one should, but does not ... any clues?:
[01:14:59] <stanreg> --
[01:15:01] <stanreg> input = (PINB & (1<<PB2));
[01:15:01] <stanreg> if (input == 1)
[01:15:02] <stanreg> --
[01:15:37] <stanreg> (uint8_t input)
[01:17:43] <thetruthisoutthe> it works, if PB2 is set to output in DDRB and if it is a button, you can turn on a weak pullup on PORTB
[01:18:06] <thetruthisoutthe> *input
[01:18:20] <thetruthisoutthe> it does not work if it is set to output
[01:18:42] <stanreg> thetruthisoutthe, yep, hardware works fine w/ my switch and with the first line, but not the second (when a variable 'input' is inserted).
[01:19:24] <stanreg> In other words, if I replace the variable-less solution by the variable solution, shit stops working.
[01:19:45] <thetruthisoutthe> i have no clu what do you expect
[01:19:48] <thetruthisoutthe> e
[01:20:13] <stanreg> In both solutions, when PB.2 = 1, condition should execute. It does in #1, not in #2.
[01:20:14] <thetruthisoutthe> it works
[01:21:10] <thetruthisoutthe> try while (1) { input = (PINB & (1<<PB2)); if (input == 1) ... }
[01:22:04] <stanreg> I'll retry.
[01:27:54] <thetruthisoutthe> try this while (1) { input |= (PINB & (1<<PB2)); input &= ~(PINB & (1<<PB1)); PORTB = (PORTB & ~(1<<PB0)) | (input << PB0); }
[01:29:15] <thetruthisoutthe> let PB0 be output
[01:31:51] <stanreg> work:
http://pastebin.com/0mN9AJN6
[01:31:57] <stanreg> dosen't work:
http://pastebin.com/4ktvtUtY
[01:31:58] * stanreg reads
[01:32:32] <thetruthisoutthe> logic is the key
[01:32:42] <stanreg> Right
[01:32:46] <stanreg> and it seems to fail me.
[01:33:23] <thetruthisoutthe> hmm
[01:33:30] <thetruthisoutthe> start with a simple thing
[01:33:37] <thetruthisoutthe> connect your led to a port
[01:33:58] <stanreg> yeah, I have a led on PB.1 and another led on PB.0
[01:34:04] <thetruthisoutthe> kk
[01:34:07] <thetruthisoutthe> then
[01:34:20] <thetruthisoutthe> set them as output
[01:34:39] <stanreg> With the first code, I can altern between both. With the second code, it never makes it in the "= 1" condition.
[01:34:59] <stanreg> Yeah, I excluded that bla bla from the pastebin, but I do set the pins as input/output correctrly.
[01:35:18] <stanreg> I think it's a syntax thing that I'm missing in my condition.
[01:35:28] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[01:35:52] <thetruthisoutthe> yeah the first code shows what it does
[01:36:30] <thetruthisoutthe> button press event and logic relation
[01:37:34] <thetruthisoutthe> now handle the press and release event,, and create a button pressed logic
[01:37:59] <stanreg> I'm using a switch.
[01:38:07] <stanreg> It works fine on the first code, and it doesn't on the second.
[01:38:08] <thetruthisoutthe> ;/
[01:38:16] <thetruthisoutthe> why you use a switch ?
[01:38:23] <thetruthisoutthe> you only need a button
[01:38:45] <stanreg> That's what I had at hand.
[01:38:56] <thetruthisoutthe> you can have a digital switch any time
[01:39:00] <thetruthisoutthe> ok
[01:39:15] <thetruthisoutthe> input = (PINB & (1<<PB2));
[01:39:32] <thetruthisoutthe> this operation stores the apparent state only.
[01:39:44] <stanreg> hmm?
[01:39:52] <thetruthisoutthe> this is not a readline like in turbopascal
[01:40:02] <thetruthisoutthe> it does not wait
[01:43:31] <thetruthisoutthe> nah let's see
[01:45:18] <thetruthisoutthe> looks like PB2 is not at bit zero, and you made a binary & operation
[01:45:53] <thetruthisoutthe> so input will be 8 instead of 1
[01:46:24] <thetruthisoutthe> input = ((PINB & (1<<PB2)) != 0);
[01:46:38] <thetruthisoutthe> this will give a true or false as 0 or 1
[01:47:40] <stanreg> damn it
[01:47:42] <stanreg> you're right
[01:47:56] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[01:48:10] <stanreg> input will be either 0 or 4.
[01:48:25] <stanreg> as pb2 is bit2.
[01:48:41] <thetruthisoutthe> want some brain teaser ?
[01:48:44] <stanreg> let's test
[01:52:04] <stanreg> right on.
[01:54:37] <thetruthisoutthe> http://pastebin.com/wnt5tDBN
[01:54:55] <thetruthisoutthe> (a line function)
[01:56:34] <stanreg> I'm a C noob, so this is way beyond my understanding, so far.
[01:56:51] <thetruthisoutthe> about time understanding it then
[01:56:56] <stanreg> haha
[01:57:15] <thetruthisoutthe> function( parameters )
[01:57:18] <thetruthisoutthe> function call
[01:57:39] <thetruthisoutthe> (float)(d) < typecasted variable
[01:58:06] <stanreg> I think I understand some of what is going on, but not the usage of the ? and the <
[01:58:12] <thetruthisoutthe> float dx = abs( p2.x - p1.x ); < declaration combined with initializer
[01:58:22] <stanreg> eg: ( p1.x < p2.x )?1:-1,
[01:58:26] <thetruthisoutthe> that is a select operator
[01:58:34] <thetruthisoutthe> if then else in short
[01:58:40] <stanreg> oh
[01:59:51] <stanreg> if p1.x < p2.x then =1 else =-1?
[02:00:12] <thetruthisoutthe> yep
[02:00:15] <stanreg> nice
[02:05:07] <stanreg> thetruthisoutthe, thanks for the help! gtg, later.
[02:44:57] <thetruthisoutthe> who uses printf on mcu ? ;)
[02:51:50] <theBear> is that a rhetorical, general, or literal question ?
[02:55:18] <thetruthisoutthe> i'm just used to being comfortable on PC ;/
[02:55:59] <thetruthisoutthe> a few ten kB does not count on PC
[02:59:44] <thetruthisoutthe> macro time
http://pastebin.com/7Dpq6fZy
[03:39:06] <theBear> it isn't a few ten k on a micro :)
[03:40:23] <theBear> the implementation i remember/used was basically just a 'neat' way to zoop a string/whatever to the serial port... no nls or redirectable output or matching os apis or any of the other stuff needed (or mostly even applicable) in micro land
[07:32:59] <Kev-> I remember someone around here posting a nice little webshop with components, probably china based, with really good prices and various shipping options
[07:33:02] <Kev-> Ring a bell for anyone?
[07:33:12] <Kev-> I can't remember the name of it or find it anywhere..
[07:33:18] <Kev-> not futurlec.com btw
[07:38:29] <RikusW> goodluckbey ?
[07:38:36] <RikusW> goodluckbuy ?
[07:38:38] <RikusW> seeed ?
[07:43:03] <Kev-> nope neither of those..
[08:22:23] <tzanger> hm
[08:32:07] <megal0maniac> Kev-: itead?
[08:32:10] <megal0maniac> dfrobot?
[08:39:04] <megal0maniac> Ebay? :)
[08:40:35] <RikusW> buybuyfast ?
[08:42:18] <megal0maniac> You made that one up!
[08:42:36] * megal0maniac is only just starting to realise the usefulness of U2S debug mode
[08:43:32] <megal0maniac> Haven't used it yet, but thinking about application. Only disadvantage is that you can't really use hardware peripherals like SPI or UART (or can you?..(
[08:43:36] <megal0maniac> ))
[08:46:14] <megal0maniac> RikusW: ^^
[08:49:43] <Kev-> Nah wasn't itead or dfrobot either.. Can't find the damn thing
[08:50:02] <Kev-> I'll just stick with ebay I think, prices are fine there and I haven't gotten into trouble with bad components... yet
[08:58:57] <RikusW> megal0maniac_afk: timing sensitive stuff won't work so well
[08:59:29] <RikusW> if you're very carefull uart might work, but very slowly
[08:59:45] <RikusW> SPI will be better since the master controls transmission
[09:00:09] <RikusW> megal0maniac_afk: where is really shines is say timer/pwm setup etc
[09:00:15] <RikusW> or accessing ports
[09:00:40] <RikusW> (I have to admit arduino iowrite is probably faster :-P )
[09:02:31] <RikusW> megal0maniac_afk:
http://buybuyfast.com/
[09:03:55] <Kev-> lol it was probably buybuyfast :)
[09:04:02] <Kev-> I thought you were trolling with the name
[09:04:48] <RikusW> My brother ordered some stuff there, its still in transit
[09:05:09] <RikusW> (just as long as its not byebyefast to your money :-P )
[09:05:16] <Kev-> indeed :)
[09:22:02] <Badaboom> Hello
[09:31:51] <Badaboom> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30aaujc&s=5
[09:38:50] <Badaboom> yes its a little hacked up but it works:)
[10:39:30] <abcminiuser> Ok, who's feeling brave?
[10:41:23] <theBear> why ? need someone to look at a genital rash or something ?
[10:42:58] <abcminiuser> Need someone to test a new version of the LUFA AS6.1 integration
[10:44:50] <Casper> abcminiuser: that ain't being brave, that's being suicidal!
[10:46:27] <theBear> hmmm, i don't think i'm really setup to even consider it, but outta interest, what is integrated ?
[10:47:14] <abcminiuser> It's just an updated version of the current release
[10:47:29] <abcminiuser> So all the examples including XMEGA targets now, and a start page written in XAML
[10:48:10] <theBear> ok, i think i get it (i haven't seen AS since maybe '05 or so :)
[10:49:33] * vectory_ hopes the examples dont include headers for additional abstraction as the asf examples do
[10:49:58] <abcminiuser> No, it's really basic at the moment
[10:49:58] <vectory_> or what ever examples you have there in as 6
[10:51:53] <theBear> i wonder... maybe that's where the "standard set of example code" that 'everyone' used to have, but i misplaced years ago and never found/remembered a source for came from
[10:53:08] <theBear> pretty sure my standard reference for stuff i didn't understand was this long forgotten source of common example c code, and the old old old abcbasic example dir (i bet one person in this channel remembers that horribly buggy and broken compiler/env :)
[10:53:59] <theBear> maybe they got a copy with their first devboard even :)
[10:54:30] <theBear> ahh, nostalgia :)
[10:55:43] <abcminiuser> No takers? :(
[10:56:27] <theBear> sorry man, my only vm machine is a bit busy and well, i don't think it'll run on any of my others
[10:56:49] <theBear> then there's the way i don't have any usb capable avrs :)
[11:00:07] <abcminiuser> I just need someone to check the new XAML getting started page works
[11:01:35] <theBear> hmmm, if you can remember abcbasic, and none of these big girls has helped you out either in a few hours or after i sleep (i think the insomnia is finally over tonight) i'll get the old vm up and give it a go for yer... it DOES work on xp right ?
[11:01:50] <abcminiuser> Jupp
[11:02:01] <abcminiuser> Don't worry too much, I can always farm this out to Twitter...
[11:02:44] <theBear> hmmm, i've heard of this twitter, apparently all the kids are doing it, didn't know it was farm related, i like farming
[11:18:16] <vectory_> twitter farms big data, some call it mining -_-
[11:18:37] <vectory_> btw, linux here, sorry :3
[11:21:01] <vectory_> but we use as 6 i school and i must say, i like the debugging with jtag. in terms of ease, the setup and use it's rather nice. just what would i use in ubuntu?
[11:21:01] <theBear> hmm, so that's what, kinda like farming poultry ? or more like a market garden ? :)
[11:21:38] <vectory_> more like a bee farm, you just go in once in a while to get the honey and let nature do the rest
[11:21:45] <theBear> heh
[11:38:15] <dfletcher> my brother in law kept bees. he left them alone and someone came along and stole all his equipment. yay nature ;)
[11:39:54] <abcminiuser> I hereby award myself one golden internet for awesome XAMLness
[11:40:11] <theBear> wow, that's err, a professional thief, and by professional, i mean beekeeper :-/
[11:42:25] <twnqx> what is XAML?
[11:42:33] * RikusW also got some hives of African bees
[11:42:46] <RikusW> some are worse than others, very agressive
[11:43:06] <OndraSter__> XAML is awesome thing
[11:43:17] <RikusW> I've had one hive pound me like a hailstorm once :-P
[11:43:36] <twnqx> stingy things.
[11:43:38] <RikusW> fortunately had double layered clothing...
[11:43:57] <RikusW> from what I've heard European bees are much more docile ?
[11:44:05] <theBear> that's how mcauley culkin died in that my girl movie... that was a sad movie
[11:44:27] <hackvana> mcauley culkin died! I'm off to the video shop!
[11:44:50] <RikusW> vectory_: I'm running Mint Nadia x64 and XP inside VirtualBox
[11:44:51] <theBear> RikusW, yeah you know, not just the climate but the whole way of life there, pushbikes, walking, those special cafes <grin>
[11:45:21] <RikusW> seems the smaller the bees the more aggressive...
[11:46:01] <RikusW> I've had bees getting into my veil... not nice...
[11:48:26] <RikusW> time to start stressing if they've managed to get in between the clothing layers...
[11:59:12] <abcminiuser> XAML is microsoft's UI markup language
[11:59:33] <twnqx> aha
[11:59:39] <twnqx> no surprise i never heard of it, then
[12:09:50] <OndraSter__> it is a good stuff for MVC frameworks
[12:09:54] <OndraSter__> for making apps
[12:10:04] <OndraSter__> that really disconnect logic from graphics
[12:11:58] * twnqx shrugs
[12:12:02] <twnqx> it's windows
[12:13:21] <OndraSter__> heh
[12:13:24] <OndraSter__> it should work in Mono too
[12:13:25] <OndraSter__> :P
[12:13:27] <theBear> hehe, there's certainly a disconnection of logic when you're thinking making apps, ms os and good stuff at the same time <grin>
[12:14:14] <dfletcher> there's always xul if you want a non-MS thing that's similar. bonus: they pronounce it "zool" :)
[12:15:12] <dfletcher> bees and XAML. exciting in here today isn't it :P
[12:15:12] <theBear> how about that ! funny you can be so familiar with a term for many years but never actually hear it pronounced :)
[12:16:25] <theBear> hmmm, last 5 minutes there's a bunch of big noisy ('racing') cars that kinda sound like they're racing around the surrounding backstreets
[12:16:28] <twnqx> xul... isn't that something from around mozilla?
[12:16:35] <theBear> it's 1am btw
[12:16:42] <twnqx> no, 7pm
[12:17:20] <theBear> oh, well that makes perfect sense then, big cars always racing in these streets early in the evening :)
[12:17:24] <dfletcher> twnqx, yeah. it's a UI description language they use to arrange the controls of firefox. but you can make other apps with it (and it has a nice built-in browser component ;)
[12:17:52] <dfletcher> you use javascript for app logic and xul flavor of XML to describe visual layout
[12:18:00] <twnqx> ugh
[12:18:16] <dfletcher> javascript is actually nice if you don't have to deal with the cross platform shash
[12:18:56] <twnqx> is it the reason why firefox etc are so absolutely sluggish whatever hardware you use them on?
[12:19:09] <theBear> crossplatform aint so bad, it's just supporting ie quirks that sucks :) so long as you don't care about ie clients, easy easy :)
[12:19:28] <dfletcher> it's not sluggish for me unless I have more than about 50 tabs open
[12:19:35] <theBear> twnqx, i do not understand the question and therefore refuse to answer it :)
[12:19:39] <twnqx> i am normally hovering around 200-300
[12:19:53] <dfletcher> organize you poop sheesh!
[12:19:56] <theBear> and i don't think i've managed to get down below 100tabs anytime in the last 5 years
[12:20:09] <theBear> no you psychic insulting guy !
[12:20:24] <twnqx> my firefox was OOM killed aearlier today
[12:20:31] <dfletcher> actually it's true I probably have that many open. but that tab organizer thingy in FF makes only a few open at once
[12:20:55] <dfletcher> the lack of that tab organizer tool is what's keeping me from chrome
[12:21:06] * twnqx uses treestyle tabs
[12:21:10] <twnqx> and tabcounter :P
[12:21:28] <theBear> dfletcher, last i checked (and that thing is only recent anyway) it keeps them loaded/open (or at least relatively loaded) once you have opened/used that tab in the current session
[12:21:54] <dfletcher> right theBear that works out nicely. so some groups stay closed up for months till I get back to it
[12:22:09] <twnqx> yeah
[12:22:21] <twnqx> it still hovers at 2-3GB for me :X
[12:22:36] <twnqx> in fact firefox was the sole reason i upgraded my laptop to 8gB
[12:22:51] <theBear> dfletcher, hehe, that's worse than me, at least i get to them quicker than that if they're new, and of course there's the large and variable number i want to keep open 'for now' to remind me something or for reference etc etc
[12:23:00] <dfletcher> sheesh get a modern machine. this beast has 32G ram I never get anywhere near the top ;p
[12:23:10] <twnqx> laptop with 32GB?
[12:23:14] <theBear> pfft, i got no swap and 3gb on this machine and never get close to filling it, and i got a LOT more than ffox running
[12:23:15] <dfletcher> desktop
[12:23:21] <dfletcher> laptops are not productive
[12:23:31] <twnqx> my desktop is at 12GB for... dunno
[12:23:34] <twnqx> 3-4 years
[12:23:42] <twnqx> i am still waiting for haswel for a replaceent :P
[12:24:19] <theBear> yeah, well my new as yet not entirely working nicely board is a 2007 model, so either suck somethign of mine, or send me your old hw, or at least ram
[12:24:32] <theBear> this one is WAY older, and it's my most powerful machine by far
[12:24:50] <twnqx> though i will not be upgrading before end of 2014
[12:24:59] <twnqx> sick and tired of only 4 cores
[12:25:29] <theBear> heh, any modern HUGE 12v rail psus are welcome too, then i can stop dicking about and this 2007 board with two cores will 'just work' and i'll be all happy
[12:25:43] <theBear> i'll be delirious with speed
[12:25:50] <theBear> oh err, that came out wrong :)
[12:26:11] <twnqx> i dissected a PSU with a 33A 12V rail out of curiosity last week
[12:26:35] <twnqx> but it was horribly flakey anyway
[12:26:48] <twnqx> for half a year it would take 2-6 attempts to turn the machine on
[12:26:52] <theBear> in the meantime, i'm in no hurry and i'm learning a lot in all kinds of areas modifying psus and juggling sub ohms of cable resistance and stuff like that
[12:26:56] <twnqx> then it started to fail suddenly in the middle
[12:27:20] <twnqx> so i scrapped it.
[12:28:16] <theBear> yeah, with the VERY low power (by 2007 standards) pcie graphics in this one all my supplies can't start it, except for the mini-jet-engine dual redundant server psu, which isn't cool for everyday desktop use, without the graphics my modified one goes in 1-6 attemps unless the wind is blowing the wrong way that day
[12:28:34] <twnqx> lol
[12:28:44] <twnqx> i guess that wasn't the problem with mine :D
[12:30:42] <theBear> if the power supply was even CLOSE to the same age as the board, say, post 2005 or so, it SHOULD have been fine, well, 33A 12v should work with anything i've seen specs for so far, except ridiculous graphics card setups, this one only needs something like 22a, but it's gotta be damned solid, tight timing on the powergood and rails coming on etc, and the psu i've modded was rated maybe 6a (on 12vrail only) under that stock :)
[12:30:53] <theBear> but so much learning
[12:34:02] <theBear> just about that time of year again, gonna have to start getting into bed THEN taking off my clothes so i don't get all chilled
[12:35:23] <twnqx> heh
[12:35:42] <twnqx> i just had to open the windows in order to get room temperature down to acceptable levels
[12:41:48] <sabesto> twnqx: got the same problem, fans seems to spin up and shut off again after half a sec, then it tries again
[12:42:06] <sabesto> havent been arsed to change PSU
[12:43:43] <twnqx> well, only after it statrted to switch off while i was using it did i change it :P
[13:22:33] <beaky> hello
[13:23:18] <beaky> I connected my avr to a 9v battery; it began to smell strange and when I press on my avr it is quite hot, and it no longer works :( what do I do?
[13:24:20] <IanCormac> oh lord
[13:24:28] <IanCormac> AVRs can't go any higher than 5v
[13:24:37] <IanCormac> You fried it
[13:24:44] <beaky> argh damn :(
[13:24:56] <IanCormac> sorry bud
[13:25:15] <beaky> no worries I have like 10 ATmega16As spare :D
[13:25:29] <beaky> so what should I do with a dead chip?
[13:26:48] <IanCormac> You could use acid to etch off the plastic
[13:26:51] <IanCormac> and look at the cool die
[13:27:36] <beaky> ah that's a nice idea for jewerly
[13:27:47] <tzanger> beaky: put it on the floor, pins-up. makes a good trap when you're going to hte bathroom in the middle of the night
[13:27:56] <IanCormac> That is true!
[13:28:03] <IanCormac> DIP pins are excellent stabbing devices
[13:28:04] <tzanger> it'd be a bit of a chore to etch off the plastic
[13:28:08] <tzanger> fuming nitric acid is no fun
[13:28:21] <beaky> btw what is the advantage of the DIP package over other packages?
[13:28:39] <tzanger> better for hobbyists.. that's abot it :-)
[13:28:45] <beaky> ah
[13:29:07] <beaky> what do professionals use?
[13:30:32] <twnqx> all forms of smd
[13:31:08] <twnqx> usually what ever is the cheapest that yet is reliable to solder, unless you have safety or space constraints
[13:32:09] <beaky> ah I am too scared to solder things
[13:32:31] <beaky> because I am afraid my design will be flawed and need improvement; can't just take everything out like one would in a breadboard
[13:32:38] * beaky is still a breadboard larva
[13:32:40] <IanCormac> And I think I'm going to start using SMD because I hate drilling PCBs
[13:33:00] <twnqx> ... yet you considered fuming nitric acid, which a friend of mine with a doctor in chemistry prefers to stay away from
[13:34:31] <beaky> so professional EEs don't use breadboards?
[13:34:36] <twnqx> ... no
[13:34:38] <beaky> :(
[13:34:56] <beaky> ok I will try to overcome my PCB shyness and stick my design onto a PCB :D
[13:34:58] <twnqx> and there's nothig scary about soldering
[13:35:12] <IanCormac> Well, professional EEs use breadboards for prototyping stuff
[13:35:22] <IanCormac> but not for actually producing stuf
[13:35:24] <IanCormac> *stuff
[13:37:10] <beaky> ah
[13:37:31] <twnqx> i can't remember when i last used a breadboard
[13:37:57] <beaky> breadboards get ugly pretty fast :D
[13:38:33] <beaky> mine has 5 dozen wires going everywhere
[13:39:05] <beaky> I'm afraid I might touch a naked lead and get shocked
[13:39:41] <twnqx> ...
[13:40:27] <twnqx> did you ever put you finger across the connectors of your 9V battery?
[13:40:45] <Tom_itx> no just my tongue
[13:40:53] <twnqx> i asked beaky.
[13:41:47] <beaky> twnqx: not yet; but I had some close calls
[13:41:53] <twnqx> then do it now.
[13:41:54] <beaky> sparks always fly from it :D
[13:42:05] <beaky> what happens if I do?
[13:42:06] <twnqx> with... your finger?
[13:42:09] <twnqx> nothign
[13:42:12] <beaky> ah ok
[13:42:32] * beaky gets zapped
[13:42:33] <twnqx> and the same with anything in your circuit, unless you managed to build a high voltage cascade
[13:43:10] <beaky> I am going to connect 10 9vs in series and try again
[13:44:05] <beaky> nah; being zapped is painful :(
[13:50:04] <tzanger> bah
[13:50:17] <tzanger> use a transistor-inductor oscillator and give yourself a couple thousand volts from that 9V.
[13:50:38] <tzanger> or use a pair of 2N3055s and a flyback transformer and get upwards of 40-60kV. I had LOTS of fun with that setup
[13:51:07] <tzanger> or go whole-hog and use a spark gap generator and give yourself literally millions of volts to play with
[13:51:09] * twnqx watches as tzanger flies back after touching the result
[13:51:15] <tzanger> twnqx: been there, done that
[13:51:42] <tzanger> the face of my 12V power supply that I used when I was doing those experiments was metal, and with all the corona discharge everything was charged up
[13:52:00] <tzanger> I couldn't turn off the damn thing without a little zap, but touching the HV lead of the flyback was the worst by far
[13:52:12] <twnqx> heh
[13:52:22] <twnqx> can i put a "crayzy" stamp on you, or do you mind?
[13:52:26] <twnqx> crazy*
[13:52:36] <tzanger> nothing crazy about it. you could do all kinds of cool things with HV
[13:52:40] <tzanger> it's all super low current
[13:53:07] <tzanger> I always wanted to get some really high voltage rectifiers and play with HVDC but could never find them
[13:53:39] <tzanger> so I couldn't really get really good results with corona motors (I think that's what theyre called)
[13:54:27] <tzanger> you take a straight piece of copper wire with a flat middle and pointy ends, bend it in a "long s" kind of shape (bend one end up 90 degress, the other end down 90) and balance it on the tip of a pin that's connected to the HV
[13:54:41] <tzanger> the electrons flying off the sharp tips would make it spin
[13:58:59] <beaky> How do I reboot my atmega without shutting the power supply?
[13:59:38] <twnqx> connect the reset pin to gnd
[14:00:32] <beaky> so I can connect a pushbutton to RESET in such a way that it becomes GND when I press it?
[14:00:45] <twnqx> yes
[14:01:15] <twnqx> i do recommend that you add a resistor in the range 4.7k-10k from reset to vcc as well
[14:06:26] <beaky> btw, what does vcc stand for?
[14:06:50] <beaky> vcc, vss, vdd... EE is full of cryptic acronyms
[14:08:10] <RikusW> Vcc positive supply
[14:08:20] <RikusW> Vss is negative afaik
[14:08:24] <beaky> ah
[14:08:35] <RikusW> use google or wikipedia ?
[14:08:38] <beaky> so cc means "current control"?
[14:08:46] <RikusW> no idea
[14:08:49] <tzanger> vcc = voltage common collector
[14:08:54] <tzanger> vss = voltage common source
[14:09:03] <tzanger> vdd = voltage common drain
[14:09:14] <beaky> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/17382/what-is-the-difference-between-vcc-vdd-vee-vss
[14:09:17] <beaky> ah thans
[14:09:28] <tzanger> vee votage common emitter
[14:09:29] <beaky> so its transistor terms ^^
[14:09:37] <tzanger> yes, because that's what ICs are made of :-)
[14:09:46] <beaky> wow thats cool
[14:10:05] <beaky> i like how everything in elecronics is a black box
[14:13:12] <beaky> EE is so easy
[14:14:56] <twnqx> digital EE is
[14:16:24] <beaky> remember all my dead avrs last week? my professor got them to work!
[14:16:44] <beaky> he told me they needed to be programmed with some JTAG mkII thing
[14:16:53] <RikusW> he won't be able to fix the 9V one :-P
[14:17:00] <beaky> :(
[14:17:24] <beaky> what is a JTAG?
[14:17:44] <beaky> how come it can make my microchips come to life when my usb programmer thing couldn't?
[14:18:10] <RikusW> you can program AVRs with ISP JTAG HVPP or HVSP
[14:18:14] <beaky> ah
[14:18:24] <RikusW> or even debugWire
[14:18:34] <RikusW> then there is TPI and PDI too
[14:18:55] <RikusW> and mega xmega and avr32 jtag differs too
[14:19:34] <RikusW> beaky: there is a chapter on JTAG in the mega16 datasheet
[14:20:08] <RikusW> (HVSP is for attiny only )
[14:32:07] <RikusW> oh and Atmel invented Vtg -> V target for its programmers
[14:32:23] <RikusW> to sense the programming voltage on the avr
[14:44:41] <Badaboom> RikusW: mega328 on an older ISP ?
[15:04:20] <vectory> beaky: jtag is one of the things that allows you insystem debugging, stepping through code on the chip instead in an emulator :)
[15:04:52] <vectory> i think you will like that, but it doesnt work on any mega, i.e. m8 doesnt support it
[15:08:41] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Still need a guinea pig?
[15:08:50] <megal0maniac> (I was too lazy to read the full log)
[15:08:54] <abcminiuser> Hell yes
[15:08:58] <abcminiuser> One sec
[15:09:07] <Badaboom> vectory: will an older ISP work with an atmega128?
[15:09:11] <megal0maniac> O
[15:09:12] <abcminiuser> Uninstall the version you have now
[15:09:15] <Badaboom> err im sorry 328
[15:09:24] <megal0maniac> I've got 6.1 release
[15:09:37] <megal0maniac> Okay, doing
[15:10:25] <abcminiuser> Make sure you restart studio once after uninstalling
[15:10:42] <abcminiuser> Then install this:
http://fourwalledcubicle.com/files/temp/LUFA-TESTING-13.05.21-18.31.20.vsix
[15:11:14] <abcminiuser> I want to know a) that the start page shows up like it does in the current release b) that the start page shows up docked by default, and not in a floating tool window
[15:11:25] <abcminiuser> c) that the new start page links work
[15:11:35] <abcminiuser> And d) that you can see the new XMEGA demos
[15:12:06] <megal0maniac> Oh balls. .vsix is associated with VS2012
[15:13:31] <megal0maniac> Also, I had 6.1beta+LUFA installed. I installed 6.1release which removed LUFA and the beta version. But I think it left the help content
[15:13:51] <abcminiuser> Hrm well you can force remove that
[15:14:06] <abcminiuser> But its the start page I'm most interested in
[15:14:19] <abcminiuser> The help is a bit updated too, but that should hopefully work the same
[15:15:34] <megal0maniac> Doesn't bug me, just noticed that there was no option to "add" when the dialog came up
[15:15:54] <megal0maniac> I'm going to make tea quick while this download un-stalls
[15:17:15] <beaky> avr is the best MCU brand
[15:18:53] <megal0maniac> beaky: Wise choice of words on #avr ;)
[15:20:04] <Badaboom> can anyone tell me if my older ISP will work with an atmega328?
[15:20:47] <inkjetunito> does it speak stk500?
[15:20:49] <Badaboom> by older i mean just a buffer from parallel
[15:21:12] <RikusW> all AVR's ISP are the same
[15:21:36] <beaky> my program instructs my code to run at specific times, but IRL it runs a bit faster
[15:21:42] <RikusW> even if its bitbang from parallel
[15:21:43] <beaky> like 1.33 times faster
[15:21:46] <beaky> why is that?
[15:22:04] <Badaboom> RikusW: i got a bad reading the other night so ill try it again,, ty
[15:22:23] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: You score 75%!
[15:22:30] <abcminiuser> Oh?
[15:23:06] <abcminiuser> Which one failed?
[15:23:06] <Badaboom> Ive never used PIC,, all i know is AVR
[15:23:07] <RikusW> beaky: tell them PIC is better :-D
[15:23:12] <megal0maniac> Start window isn't docked by default. Otherwise everything (including all of the links and 25 xmega demos) work fine. Help too.
[15:23:18] <abcminiuser> Balls
[15:23:30] <abcminiuser> Well I'll work on that
[15:23:35] <abcminiuser> It should work a lot smoother
[15:23:41] <abcminiuser> It's written in XAML now, rather than HTML
[15:23:51] <beaky> why is a JTAG so expensive?
[15:23:53] <abcminiuser> Which means it doesn't need the embedded web browser
[15:23:55] <megal0maniac> Well it was working, now you broke it :)
[15:24:04] <abcminiuser> Hrm..
[15:24:10] <beaky> it costs 300 bucks!
[15:24:25] <megal0maniac> Yeah, the start page is nicer. Didn't look into the previous one to be honest
[15:24:26] * RikusW got a few pic16f627's and a homemade programmer and its sw and assembler too
[15:24:28] <megal0maniac> beaky: 100 bucks
[15:24:37] <megal0maniac> Or even 99
[15:24:37] <beaky> ah maybe I was looking at another one
[15:24:49] <megal0maniac> beaky: jtagice3
[15:24:59] <Badaboom> RikusW: xcan u recommend a program since i know pony wont work?
[15:25:01] <beaky> http://store.atmel.com/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:10500154#tc:description
[15:25:03] <RikusW> beaky: the avrdragon is $50
[15:25:05] <megal0maniac> You can also get jtag on the cheap with a dragon :)
[15:25:15] <beaky> alright I will order the dragon then
[15:25:31] <megal0maniac> RikusW: But only for a few minutes, unless you're very careful ;)
[15:25:35] <RikusW> Badaboom: avrdude
[15:25:47] <Badaboom> rgr,, ty
[15:26:09] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I do take good care of my dragon
[15:26:13] <RikusW> and use U2S for ISP instead of dragon
[15:26:42] <RikusW> if I do happen to blow a U2S its not that bad, I've got 120 of them :-D
[15:26:44] <megal0maniac> WOAH!
[15:26:54] <megal0maniac> jtagice IS expensive
[15:27:10] <beaky> the stk600 is pretty pricey compared to the stk500 too
[15:27:12] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Why??
[15:27:17] <megal0maniac> (mkii)
[15:27:31] <RikusW> megal0maniac: get an AVRONE! instead :-P
[15:27:35] <abcminiuser> Super secret reasons
[15:27:44] <abcminiuser> Also it is a bitch to make and plastic is expensive
[15:27:47] <abcminiuser> So buy a MK3
[15:27:55] <megal0maniac> Or a dragon
[15:28:00] <megal0maniac> Because that has no plastic :D
[15:28:28] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Lots and lots of itty bitty parts in the mkII?
[15:28:29] <RikusW> AVRONE! is !!EXPENSIVE!!
[15:28:56] <beaky> wow that costs more than a mac
[15:29:29] <beaky> it's built like a mac too :D
[15:29:38] <beaky> (the AVRONE is)
[15:29:41] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, mixed through hole and surface mount, many components, plus custom plastic enclosure
[15:29:44] <RikusW> megal0maniac: its $599
[15:29:59] <abcminiuser> MK3 has less parts, less hard to mount parts and less plastic
[15:30:00] <megal0maniac> iirc, there's like one difference between avrone and the jtagice3
[15:30:07] <abcminiuser> Don't by an AVR ONE
[15:30:11] <abcminiuser> *buy
[15:30:12] <twnqx> just glue a few level shifters to a ft2232 and you have a perfect jtag adapter for avrdude...
[15:30:12] <RikusW> avrone can do tracing
[15:30:15] <inkjetunito> beaky: proprietary screws?
[15:30:16] <megal0maniac> I couldn't anyway
[15:30:37] <RikusW> megal0maniac: like trace _every_ instruction executed on AVR32
[15:30:43] <megal0maniac> inkjetunito: Mac just uses regular torx
[15:30:51] <twnqx> reminds me that i wanted to test this theory.
[15:31:07] <megal0maniac> RikusW: That sounds like lazy programming :P
[15:31:31] <RikusW> I'd stick to a dragon rather than paying R6000
[15:31:54] * twnqx grabs his ft2232 board and some avr board and hopes for no explosions
[15:32:06] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Are you working on LUFA now, or can I close AS for the meanwhile?
[15:32:37] * prpplague looks in to the discussion
[15:32:49] <beaky> http://ideone.com/bQbBUV any ideas why this code runs slightly faster IRL (e.g. the 10000 ms executes in 7 seconds)? I #define'd F_CPU as 8000000
[15:33:02] <abcminiuser> I'm cursing over the auto-docking, but no more test versions tonight
[15:33:10] <megal0maniac> twnqx: I'm intrigued by the 2232, but what does it actually do?
[15:33:11] <abcminiuser> Thanks for the help
[15:33:14] <megal0maniac> Alright :)
[15:33:23] <inkjetunito> megal0maniac: hmm. i thought they've used some strange special screws for some years already
[15:33:36] <prpplague> just can get an original flyswatter or the flyswatter2 very cheaply
[15:33:41] <twnqx> megal0maniac: your choice
[15:33:43] <RikusW> megal0maniac: the 2232 can do uart spi and jtag over hispeed usb
[15:33:45] <prpplague> for both jtag and avrdude
[15:34:01] <RikusW> megal0maniac: there is a 2232 board at seeed for $27
[15:34:03] <prpplague> <beaky> why is a JTAG so expensive?
[15:34:03] <beaky> http://ideone.com/6k4yGM oops sorry this is the right code
[15:34:10] <twnqx> 27$? jeez
[15:34:13] <prpplague> beaky: in most cases it is not the hardware that is expensive
[15:34:20] <prpplague> beaky: it's the software
[15:34:29] <megal0maniac> inkjetunito: Haven't encountered anything special lately
[15:34:45] <beaky> prpplague: ah good point; I forgot about the sophisticated firmware in those debuggers
[15:34:49] <megal0maniac> prpplague: Except it's successor, the jtagice3, is only $99
[15:34:51] <inkjetunito> megal0maniac:
http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/eQeNqVWBXWWSPPKU.medium
[15:34:57] <RikusW> twnqx: what did you pay for 2232 ?
[15:35:07] <twnqx> build myself
[15:35:14] <RikusW> and was it FT2232H ?
[15:35:16] <prpplague> megal0maniac: "successor" to what?
[15:35:30] <megal0maniac> prpplague: jtagice MKii. I think?...
[15:35:35] <prpplague> megal0maniac: ahh
[15:35:44] <twnqx> yes
[15:35:46] <beaky> the ice plastic body makes it look pretty
[15:35:50] <prpplague> hehe
[15:36:05] <beaky> I wish avrs came in that kind of plastic
[15:36:19] <megal0maniac> Same body as the $34 AVRISP mkII
[15:36:20] <prpplague> beaky: most of the jtag hardware on the market currently are all about the same hardware performance
[15:36:37] <prpplague> beaky: the big difference is the amount of software support, and support from the vendor
[15:36:50] <prpplague> beaky: both in individual support and community support
[15:37:33] <RikusW> well jtag is just the lower level protocol, most chips have vendor specific extensions
[15:37:33] <beaky> ah
[15:38:16] <prpplague> RikusW: exactly
[15:38:34] <prpplague> RikusW: and mos of the chip vendors charge for that info
[15:38:57] <RikusW> prpplague: I've hacked the mega jtag spec though
[15:39:09] <RikusW> the debugging part
[15:39:27] <prpplague> RikusW: indeed, there are many devices that are easy to hack
[15:39:30] <RikusW> https://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/jtag
[15:39:43] <prpplague> RikusW: try something like omap4430 that has 27 devices on the jtag chain....
[15:39:48] <RikusW> and made a jtagice mki clone that can program newer AVRs too
[15:39:54] <RikusW> ugh
[15:40:16] <RikusW> mine doesn't support chaining at all, it gets messy...
[15:40:44] <RikusW> prpplague: but it can be compiled for m8
[15:40:50] <RikusW> or any other avr
[15:41:23] <prpplague> RikusW: like i said, most of the hardware is all the same, it is the support from the hardware vendor that makes a difference.....
[15:41:52] <RikusW> they put in vendor defined scanchains...
[15:41:59] <RikusW> using those is usually undocumented
[15:42:37] * twnqx stares at avrdude
[15:43:01] <prpplague> RikusW: most SoC vendors charge for the information, so those costs are past own to the consumer
[15:43:11] <prpplague> RikusW: more support == more costs for info
[15:43:32] <RikusW> afaik ARM scanchains are documented
[15:43:35] <prpplague> RikusW: but also community involvement from the jtag hardware vendor is important as well
[15:43:38] <RikusW> so is AVR32
[15:43:43] <prpplague> RikusW: no
[15:43:45] <RikusW> yep
[15:43:52] <prpplague> RikusW: not for arm scanchains
[15:44:01] <prpplague> RikusW: the arm scanchain is open
[15:44:17] <RikusW> AVR32 is open too
[15:44:29] <beaky> so avr is open source?
[15:44:33] <RikusW> and mega and xmega programming too, but not debugging
[15:44:44] <prpplague> RikusW: sorry i misread your statement
[15:44:48] <RikusW> beaky: jtag programming specs
[15:45:00] <prpplague> RikusW: i thought you were asserting that the scanchains are not open
[15:45:04] <RikusW> ah
[15:45:21] <RikusW> the xmega jtag is just pdi wrapped in jtag....
[15:45:34] <beaky> is xmega better than atmega?
[15:45:34] <prpplague> RikusW: the arm scan chains are open, what are not open are generally the other devices on the chain, as well as any jtag routers that might be on the chain
[15:45:45] <prpplague> RikusW: that usually is the "key" that is kept secret
[15:45:54] <RikusW> ugh
[15:45:59] <prpplague> RikusW: so even if you have the arm chain, you can't connect to it
[15:46:08] <RikusW> thats nasty
[15:46:14] <prpplague> indeed
[15:46:23] <prpplague> so generally that is where the $$ comes in
[15:46:44] <prpplague> most SoC vendors consider that type of thing a steady reliable source of revenue
[15:46:53] <RikusW> if you have the bsdl2 files you should be able to figure it out
[15:47:07] <RikusW> speaking of, do you know where to get those specs ?...
[15:47:17] <RikusW> IEEE stuff is hard to get hold of... :(
[15:47:36] <prpplague> RikusW: bsdl is not the only item supported via jtag
[15:47:42] <twnqx> hm
[15:47:54] <RikusW> bsdl2 describes the chains
[15:47:55] <twnqx> and now to figure out how to tell avrdude...
[15:48:09] <prpplague> RikusW: only describes the boundry scan
[15:48:17] <prpplague> RikusW: and only in specific modes
[15:48:59] <masteraccurate> hi there! I have a question. I have get some mySmartUSB light and I will install the driver, whitch driver I need or what is the diference between the 2 driver versions? tool_usb-treiber-myavr-board-v6.5.zip and between tool_usb-treiber-myavr-board-v6.6.1.zip ??
[15:49:08] <RikusW> I've seen some altera ones describing the programming sequence
[15:49:47] <prpplague> RikusW: like i said, BSDL is a very limited operation, and you still need to know the jtag router
[15:50:37] <masteraccurate> Please help me with my Driver problem AVR-Friends! :)
[15:50:44] <megal0maniac> NO
[15:51:39] <megal0maniac> Sorry, continue
[15:53:19] <RikusW> masteraccurate: I don't know that board
[15:53:29] <twnqx> hmm ok
[15:53:35] <masteraccurate> It's the programmer from myavr.com
[15:53:37] <twnqx> avrdude can't use jtag with the ft2232
[15:53:38] <RikusW> try both...
[15:54:17] <masteraccurate> both? should I install first version 6.5 an then 6.6.1?
[15:55:23] <twnqx> hm, openocd doesn't seem to work either
[15:55:34] <twnqx> weird, i am pretty sure i used openocd with this board for xilinx
[15:56:46] <masteraccurate> ok I think I have to send an email to myavr.com and ask what are the differences, thanks for your help :) bye
[15:57:45] <RikusW> how should we know that anyways....
[15:58:18] <megal0maniac> Just use the latest :/
[16:00:40] <beaky> is 1MHz good for an avr?
[16:00:47] <beaky> or should I clock it to 8MHz?
[16:01:01] <beaky> all I do is blink LEDs
[16:01:10] <megal0maniac> How fast? :P
[16:01:18] <beaky> once every minute
[16:01:39] <megal0maniac> 125khz even
[16:01:46] <beaky> ah can avrs go that low?
[16:02:04] <beaky> I am using an atmega16 (probably overkill for blinking a led)
[16:02:47] <megal0maniac> I think that's the slowest you can run the internal RC osc.
[16:03:20] <megal0maniac> Oh never mind. Not the 16
[16:04:03] <megal0maniac> The 168 you can
[16:04:23] <megal0maniac> And CKDIV8 means you can get a 16khz core clock
[16:05:12] <beaky> wow
[16:05:28] <beaky> 16 khz is slow
[16:05:37] <megal0maniac> Someone stop me if I'm talking crap
[16:06:50] <megal0maniac> The ATtiny45 has the same clock settings. Can run up to 20mhz with external xtal
[16:08:08] <twnqx> Identifying chain contents...INFO:iMPACT:1588 - '0':The part does not appear to be Xilinx Part.
[16:08:10] <twnqx> heh
[16:08:17] <twnqx> xilinx impact refuses to program AVRs!
[16:13:23] <tzanger> well it is xilinx
[16:14:04] <tzanger> is the xilinx programmer something avrdude can work with? I bet it's just the end software making that decision and not some hardware level check
[16:15:15] <megal0maniac> 'Night all :)
[16:15:18] <twnqx> oh course not
[16:15:27] <twnqx> this is a platform cable USB 2
[16:15:38] <RikusW> megal0maniac: you can even put DC into XT1 :-P
[16:15:40] <twnqx> i don't know any software but impact that can use it :P
[16:16:23] <megal0maniac_afk> RikusW: Makeshift breakpoint? :)
[16:16:27] <RikusW> heh
[16:16:50] <megal0maniac> WOAH!
[16:16:54] <megal0maniac> Just had a cool idea
[16:17:24] <megal0maniac> Function generator into XTAL pin. Vary the clockspeed during runtime
[16:17:39] <megal0maniac> Literally slow down or stop time (within the context of the AVR)
[16:18:07] <megal0maniac> Okay that's all. :)
[16:18:08] <RikusW> can work :)
[16:18:21] <megal0maniac> Not much use, just a cool sounding idea
[16:18:28] <RikusW> and get the debug uart baud screwed...
[16:18:57] * RikusW suggests connecting the function generator the the PC too :-D
[16:20:24] <vectory> since you have to set the fuses to a specific speed (range?) i dont think that would work well
[16:20:50] <OndraSter_> why not connect the sine wavegen directly to the XTAL pin? :)
[16:20:54] <OndraSter_> oh
[16:20:55] <OndraSter_> nvm
[16:21:01] <OndraSter_> I thought you wanted xtal alongside the gen
[16:22:07] <tzanger> a 555 timer is cheaper than the func generator and would do the same thing
[16:22:20] <tzanger> gate that with a nice clean one shot and you have a stoppable clock
[16:23:27] <RikusW> vectory: you can set it to use external clock
[16:26:17] <vectory> still there are a lot of timing diagrams that you wanna consult first :)
[16:30:44] <twnqx> muahahaha
[16:31:08] <twnqx> http://pastebin.com/uik1yEyN - it works!
[16:31:51] <twnqx> interactive fusebit editor :o
[16:31:56] <twnqx> why didn't i know about this tool befoee
[16:38:58] <RikusW> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42460541/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/t/new-engine-sends-shock-waves-through-auto-industry/#.UZuK6RLpr9y
[16:39:18] <RikusW> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_disk_generator
[16:43:15] <twnqx> i wonder how 25kW and car match
[16:46:42] <twnqx> RikusW: sadly there's no date on that article
[16:46:54] <RikusW> was from 2011 or so
[16:47:22] <RikusW> updated 4/6/2011 5:29:19 PM ET
[16:47:25] <twnqx> so what happened to the end of the year thingy :P
[16:47:30] <RikusW> there is a date, look closely
[16:47:56] <twnqx> maybe killed by noscript/adblock
[16:48:11] <RikusW> right at top below author's name
[16:48:12] <twnqx> ctrl+f doesn't see it
[16:48:29] <twnqx> and i don't see it either :P
[16:48:52] <twnqx> i only have a discovery news logo, and then updated, but no date
[16:48:57] * twnqx shurgs
[16:49:43] <OndraSter_> yay for adblock
[16:49:43] <vectory> its clear what happend, the oil giants bought the project and killet it ;)
[16:49:49] <OndraSter_> the best invention since the internet started
[17:02:35] <RikusW> lol ->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-KFTXIoQvY
[17:03:19] <IanCormac> lol
[17:32:21] <Badaboom> RikusW: thanks, worked like a charm
[17:34:11] <Badaboom> whats a good solid programmer to build, one thats not a bitbanger
[17:34:38] <twnqx> that will, most likely, depend on which software you want to use
[17:34:49] <Badaboom> say avrdude
[17:35:34] <Badaboom> oh,, sorry.. so just use the one i have?
[17:36:18] <twnqx> i would say yes, there aren't too many supported non-bitbangers out there
[17:36:29] <twnqx> unless you get something like jtag mkii
[17:36:30] <Badaboom> gotcha,,ty
[17:36:45] <Badaboom> i have some 644's coming tomorrow ide like to try as well
[17:36:57] <Badaboom> these are 328's
[17:37:15] <Badaboom> now all i need is suggestions as to my next project:)
[17:37:28] <Badaboom> notice project(s),,lol
[17:37:55] <twnqx> help me build a 99% efficiency switching power supply
[17:38:00] <twnqx> (over the full load range!)
[17:38:04] <Badaboom> lol
[17:38:13] <Badaboom> wow,, thats a tall order
[17:38:23] <Tom_itx> easy peazy. just made one 99.8%
[17:38:26] <Badaboom> but i like it
[17:38:35] <twnqx> Tom_itx: ~400W
[17:38:40] <Tom_itx> 600
[17:38:40] <twnqx> and full load range
[17:38:52] <Tom_itx> i'm just messin...
[17:38:56] <Badaboom> lol
[17:38:56] <twnqx> so you get 99% at 60W just like with 600?
[17:39:06] <twnqx> theoretically i am around 95
[17:39:16] <Tom_itx> always looks better on paper
[17:39:22] <twnqx> indeed
[17:39:38] <twnqx> so right now i'm starting to replace the passive rectifier diodes with mosfets
[17:39:42] <twnqx> another 1-2%
[17:40:52] <Badaboom> they drop .07 right?
[17:40:57] <Badaboom> err .7
[17:41:08] <twnqx> around that
[17:41:12] <twnqx> depending on your choice
[17:41:21] <Badaboom> kk
[17:41:29] <Badaboom> yeah i think the 4001 does
[17:41:46] <twnqx> but for 85-260V input...
[17:42:03] <Badaboom> hmm
[17:42:06] <twnqx> and 400W
[17:42:21] <twnqx> you have quite some losses there at 85V ;)
[17:42:28] <Badaboom> yeah,,lol
[17:43:23] <twnqx> hm. after the ngspice update suddenly this sumlation works
[17:43:30] <twnqx> simulation*
[17:43:32] <twnqx> cool.
[17:56:48] <thetruthisoutthe> h
[17:56:54] <Badaboom> i
[17:56:58] <thetruthisoutthe> sup?
[17:57:01] <Badaboom> yo
[17:57:17] <Badaboom> did ya see my display?
[17:58:31] <Badaboom> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30aaujc&s=5
[18:00:12] <thetruthisoutthe> Badaboom <=
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30aaujc&s=5 heh, you made it? so, you have your array of digits and output one after one in a function?
[18:00:46] <Badaboom> yeah pretty much
[18:01:54] <Badaboom> i think the 6915 might be the betetr option, i was reading about it the other day
[18:02:09] <Badaboom> thats an soic i had to mount and use pins
[18:02:40] <thetruthisoutthe> <twnqx> for half a year it would take 2-6 attempts to turn the machine on <= sounds like the power good signal was not good ;)
[18:05:16] <Badaboom> thetruthisoutthe: its spi
[18:05:16] <thetruthisoutthe> and it may also be bad crank-up system design
[18:05:16] <Badaboom> I have a pacman that eats the hello afterwards,, its halarious,, but you cant put that on a pic
[18:05:16] <thetruthisoutthe> IanCormac <= i never use a breadboard, only when i slice bread
[18:05:48] <thetruthisoutthe> <twnqx> and there's nothig scary about soldering - sure, you might only burn yourself
[18:06:22] <IanCormac> Haha
[18:06:37] <Badaboom> thetruthisoutthe: sounds like a bot:)
[18:07:45] <thetruthisoutthe> <tzanger> I couldn't turn off the damn thing without a little zap, but touching the HV lead of the flyback was the worst by far <= because you earthed the thing ;)
[18:12:15] <thetruthisoutthe> Badaboom <= wtf is the 6915 ? aren't you using an atmel?
[18:15:10] <Badaboom> 6915 is another max chip
[18:15:25] <Badaboom> same type of driver chip ,, more options
[18:15:38] <thetruthisoutthe> max chips are lame
[18:15:45] <Badaboom> are they?
[18:16:05] <Badaboom> it thinks otherwise
[18:16:07] <Badaboom> lol
[18:16:12] <thetruthisoutthe> well for driving 7 segment display you use a lookup table, a byte array, and a loop
[18:16:52] <thetruthisoutthe> connect the + common to a transistor driven by a port, and segments to 7 ports
[18:16:55] <Badaboom> hmm,, im not that good yet
[18:17:04] <Badaboom> true
[18:17:06] <Badaboom> muxing
[18:17:35] <Badaboom> but with 7 digits totaling 7 transistors
[18:17:41] <thetruthisoutthe> yes
[18:18:08] <Badaboom> you don't think the chip is better?
[18:18:18] <thetruthisoutthe> or if you don't care additional components, and want to use only 3 ports, then use a 74ls138 equivalent address decoder
[18:18:26] <thetruthisoutthe> *about
[18:18:50] <Badaboom> Im only using 3 pins
[18:18:58] <Badaboom> with the max7219
[18:19:08] <thetruthisoutthe> no, a 7 segment driver ic is not better in any way
[18:19:14] <Badaboom> hmm
[18:20:44] <Badaboom> Its Attiny2313 to Max7219 via SPI
[18:22:01] <thetruthisoutthe> your atmel microcontroller is a computer with cpu, sram, eeprom, interrupts, timers
[18:22:11] <Badaboom> yes
[18:22:23] <Badaboom> so i get it
[18:22:26] <thetruthisoutthe> also, 1MIPS at 1MHz
[18:22:30] <Badaboom> your saying im limiting it
[18:22:44] <Badaboom> by using the 7219
[18:22:48] <thetruthisoutthe> additional cost, and not flexible
[18:22:53] <Badaboom> i see
[18:24:13] <thetruthisoutthe> if you don't want high brightness you don't need transistors btw
[18:24:30] <thetruthisoutthe> but you can always pwm brightness, so it is a good thing to have it bright
[18:25:29] <thetruthisoutthe> Badaboom <= you can drive 7 segment lcd crystal display directly with port pint too
[18:25:37] <thetruthisoutthe> t/s
[18:30:27] <Badaboom> ok
[18:32:28] <thetruthisoutthe> Badaboom <= you can switch leds, you can switch segments too
[18:32:39] <thetruthisoutthe> what is the difficulty?
[18:33:51] <Badaboom> oops
[18:36:15] <Badaboom> so 14 pins total then 1 per digit and a-g
[18:36:49] <Badaboom> excluding the dp due to not having 1
[18:41:08] <thetruthisoutthe> yep
[18:41:41] <thetruthisoutthe> 5 digit x 8 segment = 13 pins
[18:42:29] <Badaboom> I have 7:)
[18:42:49] <Badaboom> without dp
[18:43:07] <thetruthisoutthe> kk, you have enough ports for the application?
[18:43:52] <Badaboom> well thats why i used the 7219 to free up some port pins,, ill use all 14 pins just driving the display,, this conf i only use 3
[18:44:06] <thetruthisoutthe> ;/
[18:44:29] <thetruthisoutthe> atmega168/328 then
[18:44:59] <Badaboom> yeah,, just got the 328 in yesterday and getting to 644's tomorrow,, ill mess with the 328 tonight
[18:45:32] <thetruthisoutthe> also, you can have 2 address pins if you have a 74ls138
[18:45:43] <Badaboom> kk
[18:45:49] <thetruthisoutthe> 2 address binary address selector = 8 output lines
[18:46:00] <thetruthisoutthe> *****
[18:46:02] <thetruthisoutthe> i mean 3
[18:46:16] <Badaboom> ill have to get a 74ls138
[18:46:30] <thetruthisoutthe> i got some from old motherboards
[18:46:32] <Badaboom> so 3 to 8
[18:46:35] <thetruthisoutthe> yes
[18:46:41] <Badaboom> Ive used them in the past
[18:46:44] <thetruthisoutthe> and you connect the outputs to pnp transistors
[18:47:00] <Badaboom> 3906 should do
[18:47:14] <Badaboom> ?
[18:47:20] <thetruthisoutthe> anything should do
[18:47:23] <Badaboom> rgr
[18:47:36] <thetruthisoutthe> even p-fet
[18:47:46] <Badaboom> al the mb i have dont have any 138's:(
[18:47:57] <thetruthisoutthe> any 286 or older?
[18:47:58] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[18:48:02] <Badaboom> nope:(
[18:48:11] <thetruthisoutthe> those even have it in dip
[18:48:18] <Badaboom> yup
[18:48:42] <thetruthisoutthe> old hdd?
[18:48:46] <Badaboom> 3
[18:48:54] <Badaboom> how old?
[18:49:04] <thetruthisoutthe> well some have ics on them
[18:49:10] <thetruthisoutthe> ttl, cmos
[18:49:18] <Badaboom> i have 3 wd ive been parting
[18:49:22] <thetruthisoutthe> also cd drives
[18:49:30] <Badaboom> have some of those too
[18:50:18] <thetruthisoutthe> i found 74hc373 latches in some
[18:50:28] <Badaboom> nice
[18:50:30] <thetruthisoutthe> you can use those too for some port extending magic
[18:51:04] <thetruthisoutthe> put it on 8 ports, apply latch, and enable
[18:51:16] <Badaboom> the funny thing is, when i started out using avr's i never thought ide run out of ports,,lmao
[18:51:33] <thetruthisoutthe> well if you pick a 8 pin tiny, then you will
[18:51:47] <Badaboom> lol,, true
[18:51:56] <thetruthisoutthe> i have some tiny10 too :)
[18:52:07] <thetruthisoutthe> 5 io not including reset
[18:52:17] <thetruthisoutthe> so an rgb led, + 2 buttons
[18:52:35] <thetruthisoutthe> bike lamp
[18:53:06] <Horologium> i2c and spi port expanders are awesome too.
[18:53:24] <Badaboom> nice:)
[18:53:33] <thetruthisoutthe> a 100 pin in FPGA
[18:53:35] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[18:53:36] <GuShH> any 433MHz modules to recommend? maybe even BT? I don't need more than 50 meters reach, 10-15 indoors.
[18:53:51] <Horologium> once used a pcf8574 chip to drive a 16x2 lcd with 2 wires from an attiny.
[18:53:52] <GuShH> just serial, low bitrate
[18:54:10] <GuShH> was thinking
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330890285759
[18:54:11] <Badaboom> My largets is the 2560
[18:54:12] <thetruthisoutthe> they use those in tfts?
[18:55:22] <Horologium> thetruthisoutthe, umm...the pcf8574?
[18:55:31] <thetruthisoutthe> was thinking about that yea
[18:55:39] <thetruthisoutthe> http://bansky.net/blog/2008/10/interfacing-lcd-using-i2c-port-extender/
[18:55:46] <Horologium> GuShH, those look like they will work.
[18:56:27] <Horologium> not sure they would be fast enough for a tft interface though...
[18:57:10] <Horologium> they are an i2c port expander...can have up to 8 on an i2c bus...if you use both the pcf8574 and pcf8574a then you can put 16 total as each has a different base address and 3 address pins.
[18:58:45] <Horologium> and if you grab an spi interfaced digital pot you can even digitize the contrast adjustment on that.
[18:59:28] <Badaboom> interesting
[18:59:48] <Horologium> microchip has some nice little digital pots that would work for that.
[19:02:08] <Badaboom> i see they have i2c as well
[19:02:12] <thetruthisoutthe> Horologium <= wow that thing is bidirectional
[19:02:43] <Horologium> yup
[19:02:47] <Horologium> with an interrupt line too.
[19:03:24] <Horologium> they are a little pricy though...
[19:04:00] <Horologium> I got a bunch of them a while back on an ebay auction and have considered using them to make addressable christmas light strings.
[19:04:47] <Horologium> 16 of them on a strand driving 8 LEDs each...128 individually addressable lights.
[19:05:16] <Badaboom> Now thats a christmas tree,,lol
[19:06:04] <Horologium> could do red/green bidirectional LEDs and put 4 on each chip.
[19:06:13] <thetruthisoutthe> Horologium <= how much is 100 ?
[19:06:25] <Horologium> only 64 LEDs but get red or green output on each bulb.
[19:07:08] <thetruthisoutthe> http://www.futurlec.com/4000Series/CD4094pr.shtml
[19:07:19] <thetruthisoutthe> Horologium, Badaboom
[19:07:26] <Badaboom> lol
[19:08:26] <thetruthisoutthe> you can drive 1024 leds with these on a string
[19:08:45] <Badaboom> son of a,, i have 5 of those
[19:08:50] <thetruthisoutthe> ;>>
[19:08:52] <Horologium> the pcf8574 is much more.... 2.16 USD each in quantity of 100.
[19:09:07] <Horologium> I likely have a bunch of 4094 chips somewhere too.
[19:09:39] <thetruthisoutthe> Horologium <= well ok... not sure i's give that much for it, i rather get a tqfp100 atmel
[19:10:06] <Horologium> all depends on what you want to do with it.
[19:10:31] <Horologium> the cd4094 is good too.
[19:10:46] <Horologium> but individual addressability is an issue with those.
[19:10:57] <thetruthisoutthe> just update whole string
[19:11:02] <Horologium> true.
[19:11:13] <Horologium> and latch them all at once I suppose.
[19:11:18] <thetruthisoutthe> yea
[19:11:32] <Horologium> for that use they would work well.
[19:11:38] <Horologium> for bidirectional though, they wouldn't
[19:11:39] <thetruthisoutthe> the carry will carry your bits over
[19:12:40] <Horologium> ok...time to go take drugs and head for bed methinks.
[19:13:05] <Badaboom> yeah,, i have to take my meds for my leg
[19:13:31] <Badaboom> its litteraly the blue pill
[19:15:03] <Badaboom> thetruthisoutthe: bty i ordered 100 of those led's the other day
[19:15:11] <Badaboom> btw
[19:15:23] <thetruthisoutthe> rgb?
[19:15:27] <Badaboom> yep
[19:15:33] <thetruthisoutthe> what you building?
[19:15:51] <Badaboom> posswibly a globe
[19:16:02] <Badaboom> son of a,, i cant spell
[19:16:06] <Badaboom> possibly
[19:17:05] <Badaboom> was thinking of interfacing flight tracker with it to show the flights
[19:17:22] <Badaboom> probably gonna need more leds
[19:20:04] <Badaboom> hmm,, an interactive current events globe
[19:20:30] <Badaboom> ill call it wibly ^^
[19:27:57] <Badaboom> <GuShH> was thinking
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330890285759
[19:28:09] <Badaboom> 400,000 pixels (led's)
[19:28:14] <Badaboom> fml
[19:33:51] <Badaboom> definitly something alot smaller:)
[19:37:34] <Badaboom> crap i just noticed i posted the wrong link,, wth
[19:37:45] <Badaboom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaVfJOIBGck
[19:40:19] <theBear> that makes more sense
[19:42:59] <theBear> ooh, o1vmk2 mixer
[19:43:15] <theBear> i like their little announcing scooters
[19:43:48] <theBear> forgive me, they call it o1v96k or something, not mk2, but ya know, it's just mk2 :)
[19:45:00] <theBear> you know you could make something like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTtCkGuGmzQ with the 100 or so leds you already got, right ?
[19:45:36] <Badaboom> yeah,, thats what i was thinking,, more on the lines of what i can afford
[19:46:40] <Badaboom> wonder what type of motor that is
[19:50:25] <theBear> a spinny one
[19:51:09] <GuShH> lol
[19:51:22] <theBear> doesn't really matter so long as the speed of any 2 sequential rotations is fairly similar, lets say within 1/2(1rev/virtual columns)
[19:51:37] <GuShH> you'll have some form of tearing anyway
[19:51:44] <theBear> pfft, YOU might
[19:51:48] <GuShH> :o
[19:51:56] <theBear> it'll sure look better to the eye than a vidcam like i pasted
[19:52:05] <GuShH> obviously!
[19:53:11] <theBear> btw, that giant foreign ball is kinda funny, making all those normal sensible people shout as loud as they can
[19:55:21] <Badaboom> lol
[19:56:20] <thetruthisoutthe> Badaboom <=
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/815138.pdf
[19:56:22] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[19:56:24] <thetruthisoutthe> haha
[19:56:34] <thetruthisoutthe> only 1 nop needed for delay
[19:56:45] <thetruthisoutthe> (at 8MHz)
[19:56:50] <theBear> so, love is in the air... is that a cool song or a disco nightmare ?
[19:57:20] <Badaboom> thetruthisoutthe: i bought some with my last digikey order:)
[19:57:25] <Badaboom> 595's
[19:57:35] <thetruthisoutthe> so there you have unlimited number of outports ;<
[19:57:41] <Badaboom> :)
[19:57:50] <thetruthisoutthe> you don't even need scanning, just hook up all segments
[19:58:02] <Badaboom> ahh
[19:58:23] <Badaboom> Im getting a hammer for the 7219..lol
[19:58:51] <thetruthisoutthe> ;>>
[19:58:52] <theBear> dammit ! my question ! I MUST KNOW !
[19:59:27] <theBear> nah, just messin, it's cool
[19:59:31] <thetruthisoutthe> theBear <= hmm ?
[19:59:41] <Tom_itx> nm
[19:59:42] <Tom_itx> for sure
[20:02:04] <thetruthisoutthe> Badaboom <= so, don't even need transistors if you have one of this for every digit, just connect common+ to vdd, and maybe resistors in series with segments, not sure if eveb that is required, the pins will sink about 8mA max
[20:04:18] <Badaboom> hmm
[20:05:57] <theBear> thetruthisoutthe,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo like this
[20:06:25] <theBear> heh, on reflection i didn't need to ask, i'm man enough to say it rocks !
[20:06:39] <theBear> or whatever the equivalent term is for disco songs :)
[20:07:27] * theBear can't resist waving hands in the air for the chorus
[20:07:52] * theBear and disco music have a pretty special relationship
[20:08:00] <thetruthisoutthe> theBear <= i prefer a scooter instead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKIiefNLgM
[20:08:30] <theBear> and as i get older and more jaded/bitter/lonely, i start to like, well, at least appreciate, all those classic lovesong lyrics that sounded stupid as a kid
[20:09:18] <theBear> thetruthisoutthe, heh, i was just thinking about how much is the fish and wondering where the album was yesterday <grin> thanks for picking the next tune for the morning
[20:10:00] * theBear doesn't discriminate against genre
[20:10:31] <theBear> maybe hair or clothing style in the most extreme of cases tho <grin>
[20:11:07] <theBear> but i'm 'down with' the scooter and the dye witness, as i believe the kids would say
[20:11:52] <theBear> heh, sorry for the sidetrack, but i finally slept, and i'm still in a good mood, i felt like sharing :)
[20:12:02] <thetruthisoutthe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5pdgyOzJtE
[20:12:04] <thetruthisoutthe> hehe
[20:12:04] <GuShH> theBear: let's see you share your booze too!
[20:12:09] * GuShH hands theBear an empty glass
[20:12:34] <theBear> hmm, try this new (to me) japanese dry i got yesterday
[20:12:49] <Badaboom> ill bbl,, gotta reboot
[20:12:49] * GuShH is big in Japan
[20:12:51] * GuShH grins
[20:13:00] * theBear joins gush
[20:13:14] <theBear> GuShH, but you know, it may not last, i heard they're getting bigger
[20:13:58] <GuShH> called these lathe idiots, yesterday they told me 3700 today they said 4200, when I confronted them about the price issue they said "and we'll keep increasing the price" ... I should head over to their store and wreck it all.
[20:14:14] <GuShH> theBear: how are they getting bigger? mixing up western genes?
[20:14:18] <GuShH> or using robotic attachments
[20:14:20] <GuShH> :|
[20:15:30] <theBear> i dunno, i just listen to the songs, i don't write them
[20:15:56] <GuShH> oohh.. this was all a sexual innuendo by the way.
[20:16:13] <GuShH> pretty much everyone is "big" in Japan
[20:16:15] * GuShH runs away
[20:17:16] <thetruthisoutthe> theBear <= :) the morning song Lazard - 4 o clock in the morning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esx6UyfPIgE
[20:18:00] <theBear> orright, following the theme of songs names as sentences,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3NeMCXuMCk always makes me smile
[20:22:14] <thetruthisoutthe> another version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qIAzjDaKoA
[20:24:00] <GuShH> theBear:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330890285759 know of any better alternatives on that price range?
[20:24:39] <GuShH> I've had excellent luck with the chinese dc step down modules in the past, I figure these old things should work right off the envelope
[20:26:19] <theBear> wow ! it was innuendo ! something new everyday, and it's only just after 9 in the morning !
[20:35:58] <Tom_itx> renton
[20:36:14] <Badaboom> lol,, device not read,, yeah stop trying to get it to read an AT90S2313 when its an attiny2313A,, sigh
[20:36:50] <Badaboom> moving right along to the atmega328 not:)
[20:37:55] <Tom_itx> http://www.rentron.com/PicBasic/RemoteControl.htm
[20:38:49] <Tom_itx> doesn't meet all your criteria
[20:39:26] <theBear> i watched that just the other day too, not a bad movie all in all
[20:40:39] <theBear> GuShH, nah, last i looked a few years back it was 10 or 20 bucks a set from somewhere like dx/spark.... and they are about as simple as i can see working, but that's not bad for a simple rf module
[21:50:48] <thetruthisoutthe> what kind of ECC do you recommend for data communication with an atmel ?
[21:51:34] <GuShH> vague question includes irrelevant information!
[21:53:31] <theBear> err, you mean error correction/detection ? ECC is pretty specific and probably not appropriate here
[21:53:58] <theBear> ECC from memory would be a hw implementation of 1bit parity
[21:54:34] <theBear> both by having an extra bit on the ram side, and a memory controller which confirms consistancy by calculating that bit in 'realtime'
[22:07:58] <thetruthisoutthe> yes i mean error detection and correction code
[22:09:54] <theBear> depends a bit on the application... serial has builtin framing stuff, which will at least drop packets that are munged, and pretty sure there's a flag or two that can let you know when it happens if you need to... even the option of builtin parity bits which i'm sure you can monitor, of course then it's up to you if you need to do anything other than just drop/ignore the bad bytes
[22:20:24] <thetruthisoutthe> 1 parity bit is not enough for 8 bits
[22:21:59] <theBear> ecc ram would tend to disagree
[22:22:23] <theBear> unless it does things in batches of multiple bytes, but that would surprise me
[22:23:04] <theBear> and they definately only have one more chip than regular 8bit non-ecc modules in everything i seen from 30pin ram times up until ddr1
[22:23:37] <thetruthisoutthe> ecc ram uses 2 parity bits i believe
[22:24:18] <thetruthisoutthe> with 1 parity bit, you may only detect 1 bit error, and not correct it
[22:24:34] <theBear> they only add 1chip to the standard set of 8
[22:24:37] <thetruthisoutthe> ecc is able to correct 1 bit
[22:25:04] <theBear> hmmm...
[22:26:49] <thetruthisoutthe> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_memory
[22:27:02] <thetruthisoutthe> ECC protects against undetected data corruption, and is used in computers where such corruption is unacceptable, as with some scientific and financial computing applications and as file servers.
[22:28:08] <theBear> but, how do they add more than 1 bit with a single 9th chip ?
[22:28:21] <thetruthisoutthe> hm good question i'm confised
[22:28:41] <thetruthisoutthe> this looks like a parity chip only
[22:29:02] <thetruthisoutthe> i can't find the error correction code now
[22:29:20] <thetruthisoutthe> that can detect 2 bit change, and correct bit error
[22:30:51] <thetruthisoutthe> o yea found it
[22:30:53] <thetruthisoutthe> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamming_code
[22:31:23] <theBear> heh, good old wikipedia, covers all kinds of similar error correction on the "ECC Memory" page and even the ECC specific page is broad and non-specific :)
[22:32:00] <thetruthisoutthe> [7,4] Hamming code
[22:32:24] <thetruthisoutthe> It encodes 4 data bits into 7 bits by adding three parity bits.
[22:32:59] <thetruthisoutthe> 63 year old logic ...
[22:33:37] <theBear> yeah, but they (remembering wiki is usually inaccurate <grin>) list that as distinct from "ECC" in the context of "ECC memory modules"
[22:35:24] <thetruthisoutthe> happens
[22:38:23] <thetruthisoutthe> theBear <=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Symmetrical_5-set_Venn_diagram.svg
[22:38:25] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[22:40:21] <GuShH> :(
[22:40:36] <theBear> don't be sad
[22:40:52] <theBear> hmm, pretty picture, not really sure what it means tho :)
[22:41:23] <thetruthisoutthe> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_Diagram
[22:42:35] <theBear> i know how the diagram works, just not why it's filled with letters
[22:42:43] <theBear> or what the letters mean, in this case
[22:43:20] <theBear> http://static3.shopify.com/s/files/1/0016/9762/files/elitismdiagram600.gif
[22:44:49] <theBear> that's not aimed at you thetruthisoutthe , just a picture that makes me smile
[22:45:49] <thetruthisoutthe> oh the letters are meant to show the common part code
[22:46:09] <theBear> common part of what ?
[22:46:11] <thetruthisoutthe> the intersecting area's letter
[22:46:25] <thetruthisoutthe> combinations
[22:46:42] <theBear> but, they're just letters ! i know how to read the diagrams, why did you link that one and what does it try to express to me ?
[22:47:17] <thetruthisoutthe> it is in close relation to the hamming code diagram
[22:48:43] <thetruthisoutthe> but i'm not sure it is cool to solve matrices for data correction with atmel mcus
[23:09:57] <thetruthisoutthe> theBear <= or this ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BinaryGolayCode.svg
[23:14:27] <theBear> you'll find that most things like parity and similar concepts are fairly trivial to implement in things like micros, because they were designed to be 'simple' and often to be done with discrete logic
