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[00:04:16] <theBear> what valen said :)
[00:04:48] <theBear> all but the grumpiest of cars just a couple cranks with foot on the floor gets it past the cylinders, then a couple more revs and a backfire later yer running again :)
[00:16:55] <Valen> had one backfire out the cerby
[00:16:59] <Valen> that was exciting
[00:17:04] <Valen> smoke pouring out the bonnet
[00:17:13] <Valen> big thing is to put the foot down *slowly*
[00:17:21] <Valen> otherwise the pump just floods the thing
[00:18:19] <Casper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpOwkchy9Bw#t=1m20s WOW
[00:19:14] <theBear> cerby ?
[00:20:33] <Casper> bro called me and said that his car wouln't start, thinking it was the starter or a dead battery... went there, asked him to try to start.. good crank speed, but he dropped it right away... 1 sec crank...
[00:20:37] <Casper> he did multiple ones
[00:20:42] <Casper> so floded
[00:20:59] <Casper> I simply told him to floor
[00:21:34] <Casper> and hold... as expected, after a while, and standard cranking, it did started (and smell gas)
[00:23:06] <theBear> heh, that vid reminds me of one time i had to setup a foam machine for a work related thing/job ... was kinda cool to play with ... from memory it was some kinda bubbly evaporatey stuff (well, most of it evaporated in minutes, still wanted plastic on the floor and safety warnings) that was pumped onto something stocking-material like stretched over one of those 'industrial' fans that's just a huge plastic maybe 2' dia tube with grills either end filled wi
[00:23:06] <theBear> th a motor and big blades
[00:24:04] <theBear> what amazes me is when you need to get in a car for someone (often their own) and just give the steering wheel a 'bump' cos it's caught on the steering lock due to parking on a hill or curb or something
[00:24:28] <theBear> don't normal people wiggle things when they don't work ? or notice that it's odd for their steering wheel to be jammed at the same time as the key not wanting to turn ?
[00:26:12] <rue_shop3> I had a van that didn't care if the key was in while you were driving, fell out occasionally
[00:26:20] <rue_shop3> which was freaky
[00:26:52] <Casper> fell and locked the steering?
[00:27:04] <rue_shop3> no
[00:27:10] <rue_shop3> thank god
[00:27:38] <Casper> engine died?
[00:27:47] <theBear> rue_shop3, hehe, old cars like that are funny
[00:28:02] <rue_shop3> no, it just didn't care if the key fell out in run
[00:29:28] <theBear> i used to have a van with a one-model-off key barrel for the ignition, it was a small rectangle thingy in a larger plastic rectangle receptacle, took a special kinda angled jiggle to JUST get it to turn against the spring for start position, and towards the end a jiggle to get it into run position .... it was good, got broken into a few times but they never managed to start it, coulda left the key in there and they wouldn't have done any better
[00:29:30] <Casper> so... why freaky?
[00:30:14] <Casper> theBear: now they don'T care much...
[00:30:18] <rue_shop3> cause if it ever happened while I was driving and the steering wheel did lock ...
[00:30:43] <Casper> they steals BMW to make dune buggy
[00:31:22] <rue_shop3> do they make good buggies?
[00:33:14] <rue_shop3> I can make the pwm timer interrupt on overflow cant I?
[00:33:53] <rue_shop3> I'm gonna end up killing my rtc clock port, and I need realtime timing for the steppers
[00:37:15] <Casper> sure, pwm is a plain timer
[02:25:44] <rue_house> I have to find a disk for "corefast backup"
[02:39:18] <theBear> err, ok.... for reference i've recently been using something called fsarchiver for various purposes... has a fs (partition) and file mode, kinda general purpose mass archiver/backup tool, seems pretty solid, good at breaking huge things into regular sized files, all the appropriate options/features... afaik only runs in my favourite os :)
[02:39:27] <theBear> course that doesn't limit what it can backup/store
[02:46:14] <Fleck> http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD9850.pdf << heelp guys, page 1 saygs 0.0291Hz with 125MHz clock, but I seems to get half of that... Like if I set 1000Hz I get 500Hz, like 0.0291 is for half cycle?!?
[04:06:08] <megal0maniac> Well that was bloody ridiculous
[04:06:20] <megal0maniac> "Build a half-wave rectifier"
[04:06:54] <megal0maniac> At leasy it was easy :)
[04:09:08] <Valen> look ma I gots me a DIODE!
[04:14:09] <megal0maniac> Diode + zener + 2 resistors + cap
[04:14:26] <megal0maniac> Not one calculation
[04:16:15] <Valen> well thats a regulator then not just a rectifier
[04:18:09] <megal0maniac> I suppose
[04:18:26] <megal0maniac> But still. Not even full-wave
[04:18:46] <megal0maniac> Although i shouldn't speak too soon. It /is/ Electronics 1
[04:19:17] <Valen> I always liked looking at it on the scope
[04:19:30] <Valen> watching the diode work if you will
[04:19:41] <RikusW> go build a precision fullwave rectifier then (it eliminates the 0.7V Vfd)
[04:20:09] <RikusW> hint, it uses opamps and are signal level only
[04:21:03] <megal0maniac> RikusW: But I've passed my prac exam :D
[04:21:12] <RikusW> good :)
[04:21:13] <megal0maniac> Also don't know how to implement opamps
[04:21:24] <RikusW> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_rectifier
[04:21:38] <Valen> bah make a H bridge controlled rectifier
[04:21:53] <Valen> use a micro to control it and ensure PFC ;->
[04:22:21] <twnqx> lol
[04:22:25] <twnqx> you know
[04:22:38] <twnqx> i am currently designing something like that
[04:23:05] <twnqx> bridgeless even
[04:24:01] <twnqx> sadly it's a primary side regulator, so you can have some fun selecting components :P
[04:24:27] <Valen> isolation is for wimps
[04:24:45] <twnqx> my big stop sign are still inductors and transformers, and a weird document claiming very weird windings for the flyback transformer
[04:25:27] <twnqx> basically, the secondary windings only have 1 end connected
[04:27:03] <twnqx> we definitely need chinese inductor shops like the PCB shops that are available now :P
[04:27:33] <Valen> eh, if you need 5 wind em yerself
[04:27:45] <Valen> if you need 1000 the inductor manufacturers will do custom winds
[04:28:19] <twnqx> yeah, just hard to het the needed stuff
[04:28:39] <twnqx> and i am totally clueless, too
[04:29:52] <twnqx> i found sources of copper foil now, but the insulation is still kind of a problem
[04:30:16] <twnqx> "to be processed at 110°C" is not something i intend to do
[04:32:03] <OndraSter_> get a dragon to breath on it
[04:32:06] <OndraSter_> works every time for me
[04:37:57] <RikusW> megal0maniac:
http://www.play-hookey.com/analog/feedback_circuits/full-wave_rectifier.html
[04:39:07] <twnqx> RikusW: will that ever be able to deliver power?
[04:39:09] <RikusW> twnqx: I found a good cheap source for the wire, fridge motors
[04:39:19] <twnqx> as in a few hundred watts?
[04:39:21] <RikusW> those are only in oil, no resin/glue
[04:39:29] <twnqx> wire i irrelevant
[04:39:30] <RikusW> easy to unwind
[04:39:55] <twnqx> also the transformer runs at 100khz, so you want litz wire due to skin effect
[04:40:00] <RikusW> ah
[04:40:09] <twnqx> still easy to get
[04:40:24] <RikusW> (getting the fridge motor opened is a bit of a chore ;) )
[04:40:32] <twnqx> probably copper foil for the secondaries (i scrapped a 33A onw)
[04:40:34] <RikusW> messy too
[04:41:22] <twnqx> really interesting construction with several of the "best practices" recommendations i found
[04:41:38] <twnqx> e.g. EMI shielding windings
[04:41:53] <RikusW> aso far the hardest part for me is finding the ferrite parts
[04:42:04] <twnqx> not really
[04:42:05] <RikusW> RS prices on those are nuts
[04:42:10] <twnqx> really
[04:42:16] <twnqx> i found my epcos cores for <5€
[04:42:25] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Interesting concept :)
[04:42:28] <RikusW> where ?
[04:42:31] <twnqx> mouser
[04:42:39] <RikusW> will have a look thanks
[04:43:14] <twnqx> yeah, i was positively surprised, too :P
[04:45:13] <megal0maniac> RikusW:
http://i.imgur.com/pEPX5mK.png
[04:50:34] <RikusW> megal0maniac: 330R + 12V might be a bit small...
[04:50:46] <l9> is there any software that lets me mimick a avr running?
[04:50:54] <megal0maniac> simulavr
[04:51:06] <RikusW> megal0maniac: and why not just connect the opto emmiter directly to the led ?
[04:51:27] <RikusW> emitter
[04:51:55] <RikusW> 5v-> opto C E -> led -> resistor -> gnd
[04:51:59] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Oh yeah.. I didn't pay too much attention to resistor values though
[04:52:31] <RikusW> 1k is more like it
[04:52:50] <RikusW> 10mA 10V + 2V Vf on led
[04:53:16] <RikusW> so the final can have 2 resistors + opto
[04:55:54] <megal0maniac> It doesn't pull all the way to ground...
[04:56:20] <RikusW> should be enough for RI to register ?
[04:56:38] <megal0maniac> Yeah, I suppose
[04:56:51] <megal0maniac> It's internally pulled up as well, so that should help
[04:56:57] <RikusW> which app are you simulating with ?
[04:57:08] <megal0maniac> Crocodile clips...
[04:57:27] <RikusW> ah
[04:57:55] <RikusW> or simply connect RI -> opto C E -> gnd
[04:58:05] <RikusW> maybe with pullup
[04:58:15] <megal0maniac> That's what I'm doing now
[04:58:22] <RikusW> since you can write software to handle whatever signal level you get
[04:58:23] <megal0maniac> And it isn't pulling properly low
[04:58:38] <RikusW> use the opto transistor as pulldown
[04:59:03] <RikusW> you don't need to invert the signal with the second transistor, do it in sw on the pc
[04:59:20] <megal0maniac> Hmmm... Okay :)
[05:00:27] <RikusW> think like Intel, put most of the usb processing in SW :-P
[05:00:45] <RikusW> the MS usb 2 spec put most processing in HW ;)
[05:00:57] <RikusW> thats why there is 2 different usb 2 hub specs
[05:01:03] <RikusW> (root hub)
[05:01:13] <RikusW> ehci / ohci
[05:01:27] <megal0maniac> Each company is expecting the other to do their job :P
[05:01:45] <OndraSter_> each has got its advantage
[05:01:45] <OndraSter_> s
[05:01:48] <OndraSter_> MS -- less CPU usage
[05:02:22] <RikusW> Intel, sell the users faster cpu's :-D
[05:02:33] <OndraSter_> Intel -- in case of catastrophy can be fixed by software update
[05:03:16] <megal0maniac> I don't think I've ever actually seen ohci
[05:05:09] <megal0maniac> RikusW: It's actually better because the control lines are active low
[05:28:29] <RikusW> http://www.reactos.org/node/637
[05:36:44] <rue_house> no, intel sells cpu's with faster input clocks, not faster processors
[05:36:50] <rue_house> just like pics
[05:37:00] <jacekowski> and fastest processors at the same time
[05:37:09] <rue_house> no
[05:37:19] <jacekowski> what else is there that is faster than intel cpu
[05:37:24] <rue_house> 74LS595.c: In function ?:
[05:37:24] <rue_house> 74LS595.c:7:7: warning: implicit declaration of function ? [-Wimplicit-function-declaration]
[05:37:25] <rue_house> 74LS595.c:7:7: error: ? undeclared (first use in this function)
[05:37:25] <rue_house> 74LS595.c:7:7: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in
[05:37:25] <rue_house> 74LS595.c:7:7: error: ? undeclared (first use in this function)
[05:37:32] <jacekowski> fastest amd cpus don't come anywhere close to intel
[05:37:35] <rue_house> it annoys me it cant tell me what the name is
[05:37:52] <jacekowski> sparc is dead
[05:37:56] <jacekowski> cell is dead
[05:37:58] <rue_house> I'm not gonna get into a cpu argument
[05:42:35] <OndraSter_> there are many factors on which you can compare CPUs
[06:04:48] <theBear> i miss my supersparcs :(
[06:43:21] <RikusW> rue_house: its on line 7...
[06:43:34] <megal0maniac> :D
[06:43:55] <rue_house> yea, line 7 would be about 400 characters long if the macros were expanded out
[06:44:00] <RikusW> jacekowski: nvidia is faster than intel
[06:44:20] <RikusW> ugh..
[06:44:31] <jacekowski> we are talking about cpu's not graphic cards
[06:44:52] <RikusW> well there are multicore cpu's on there too ;)
[06:45:06] <RikusW> massively mutlicore
[06:45:52] <jacekowski> extremly slow for general computing
[06:59:17] <twnqx> rue_house: i know that feeling :>
[07:00:42] * megal0maniac considers another LUFA joke
[07:00:49] <megal0maniac> :)
[07:00:55] <abcminiuser> ?
[07:01:16] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Because twnqx wrote LUFA
[07:01:26] <abcminiuser> Oh yeah, I forgot
[07:01:33] <abcminiuser> Great job twnqx, I love the project
[07:01:54] <abcminiuser> It's so good I've been improving it in my spare time
[07:04:44] <RikusW> megal0maniac: got the proforma from Mantech a few minutes ago, they still have to add shipping.
[07:04:52] <megal0maniac> Gaw!
[07:04:55] <RikusW> so in a day or two I'll have my stuff :)
[07:04:56] <megal0maniac> Stupid Mantech
[07:05:50] <RikusW> in my last email I explicitly said don't wait for the solar panel I want to order now
[07:06:10] <RikusW> they have 6V 50mA panels for R37
[07:06:20] <RikusW> netram got 5V 100mA ones for R40
[07:06:31] <RikusW> and the same at seeed for $2
[07:06:54] <megal0maniac> Seeed :D
[07:06:59] <megal0maniac> China is always cheaper
[07:07:11] <RikusW> I bet that netram got it from seeed
[07:07:30] <megal0maniac> it is one of their suppliers
[07:10:36] <abcminiuser> Hrm
[07:10:40] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Didn't you have some sort of USB to SPI bridge?
[07:10:55] <abcminiuser> I have a honking great big email from a guy I've never talked to before, who don't ask anything
[07:11:20] <abcminiuser> It's just a "congrats on the LUFA release" followed by a ton of non-LUFA related project info, no questions...
[07:11:31] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, USB to Serial, although you could sub in the SPI driver
[07:12:14] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: It's tough being a celebrity
[07:13:54] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I might have some U2S SPI code for you
[07:14:14] <RikusW> will just have to go _find_ it
[07:14:22] <megal0maniac> RikusW: It's all good, I've got something. Just thought LUFA might have it too :
[07:14:23] <megal0maniac> )
[07:16:25] <abcminiuser> Hrm, I think this XMEGA demo port branch is ready for merge back into master
[07:16:36] <megal0maniac> Already??
[07:16:44] <abcminiuser> Not completely finished, but if I don't get some XMEGA demos into master soon it'll never go live
[07:16:50] <abcminiuser> I solved the UI problem: don't have any
[07:16:52] <abcminiuser> :P
[07:17:02] <abcminiuser> The demos will build for BOARD=NONE by default in Studio, which turns off all UI
[07:17:24] <abcminiuser> So it'll enumerate, then they can sort out the build problems due to missing UI hardware later when they switch to their specific board
[07:17:30] <RikusW> megal0maniac: found and emailed it, use at own risk ;) but it worked for me
[07:17:44] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I did add an interrupt line though
[07:17:49] <abcminiuser> But at least they will enumerate on both XMEGA and AVR8 out of the box
[07:17:55] <RikusW> you might need to modify that a little
[07:18:54] <megal0maniac> Okay.. But how is xmega different from avr8? In terms of defining board. Why can't one just define BOARD=xmegasomething? Or are you trying to avoid writing board definition files for xmegas?
[07:19:14] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Because different avr8 boards need different definitions anyway
[07:19:22] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Lol, thanks :) I'll check it out
[07:19:52] <abcminiuser> You can select the A3BU_XPLAINED or other XMEGA board, just like the AVR8s
[07:20:05] <abcminiuser> The problem is the demos assume the board has buttons, joysticks and LEDs
[07:20:11] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I used that code for a "serial" interface to an m644
[07:20:21] <abcminiuser> Which means it won't compile for a board that doesn't have one or more of those hardware parts
[07:20:39] <abcminiuser> It's always been an issue even on the AVR8s so I guess it's no big deal doing this for XMEGA as well
[07:21:34] <megal0maniac> Okay, I'm with you :)
[07:21:46] <RikusW> abcminiuser: another thing my U2S got only 1 led, its not easy to decide what it should mean for your mkii...
[07:22:08] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Submit a board definition file for LUFA :D
[07:22:10] <RikusW> I was able to move the ISP reset pin
[07:22:12] <RikusW> heh
[07:22:22] <megal0maniac> Dooooo itttt
[07:22:45] <RikusW> and my extension boards can do HV TPI but will need a firmware mod
[07:23:04] <RikusW> just put the pinout board on the HVPP instead of translator board
[07:23:05] <megal0maniac> HV TPI is a thing?
[07:23:18] <RikusW> 12V on reset for TPI
[07:23:18] <megal0maniac> News to me
[07:23:22] <abcminiuser> RikusW, "this LED confirms it is doing something"
[07:23:28] <RikusW> I wish ISP worked like that too
[07:23:41] <abcminiuser> I can make a board definition if you send me a schematic and purchase link
[07:23:43] <RikusW> abcminiuser: something like that should work
[07:23:46] <rue_house> I wrote this ages ago, I still love it
[07:23:52] <rue_house> zippo:/files/programming/c/avr/atmega32/steppermotion2# IncludeMap main.c
[07:23:52] <rue_house> main.c
[07:23:53] <rue_house> avrcommon.h
[07:23:53] <rue_house> usart.h
[07:23:53] <rue_house> 74LS595.h
[07:23:53] <rue_house> LS595settings.h
[07:23:55] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Isn't hvsp like that?
[07:23:55] <rue_house> avrcommon.h
[07:24:06] <rue_house> it maps out all the dependencys of a source from a file
[07:24:12] <RikusW> megal0maniac: TPI is simpler, 0V or 12V on reset
[07:24:20] <RikusW> 12V on ATmega use HVPP not ISP
[07:25:46] <RikusW> abcminiuser: or I can do it (already partly done it), how would it be merged with your code ?
[07:26:05] <RikusW> git ? diff/patch ?
[07:26:16] <abcminiuser> Well I use Git now properly, no more SVN->Git bridges
[07:26:32] <abcminiuser> So either a) pull request on GitHub or b) patch or c) emailed files :P
[07:26:35] * RikusW will have to learn a bit about git then (should have already)
[07:26:51] <abcminiuser> Basically I'm not snobby, so any form is fine
[07:27:16] <RikusW> abcminiuser: I'm not in too much of a hurry, got other things that must be done, like finishing some GPS tracker code
[07:27:26] <abcminiuser> No problem, I've got plenty to do...
[07:27:29] <RikusW> good to know :)
[07:28:46] <RikusW> abcminiuser: for now my board only supports TPI/PDI via LUFA :)
[07:29:05] <RikusW> not so sure I have time/want to implement that anytime soon...
[07:29:52] <RikusW> anyone seen Steffanx lately ?
[07:30:41] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Given that Rikus' board has one buttone and one LED, should be pretty straightforward to set up a boards file, no?
[07:30:49] <abcminiuser> Always brilliant to see people getting use out of my code :P
[07:30:59] <abcminiuser> Yes, simple
[07:31:02] <abcminiuser> Basically:
[07:31:27] <abcminiuser> 1) Add a new board macro to LUFA/Common/BoardTypes.h with a unique index
[07:31:46] <abcminiuser> 2) Add your board.h, leds.h and buttons.h to a new folder in LUFA/Drivers/Board/AVR8
[07:32:08] <abcminiuser> 3) Update LUFA/Drivers/Board/*.h with a check and include from your new board macro to the new board driver files
[07:32:21] <abcminiuser> 4) Then update the changelog etc. (my job)
[07:32:28] <abcminiuser> Actually, I added a new board last night, I'll find the commit
[07:32:48] <abcminiuser> https://github.com/abcminiuser/lufa/commit/fdf50e941126140cdb1f87296ea05079ab25e5f7
[07:33:15] <abcminiuser> Oh and 5) add the board/device/arch mapping to the BoardDriverTest build test
[07:33:21] <megal0maniac> Cool, thanks :)
[07:33:49] <megal0maniac> Looks relatively straightforward, once I've figured out your logic with the port masks etc
[07:34:01] <rue_house> hmm, is lufa taking over arduino territory?
[07:34:21] <abcminiuser> Ppfftt, hell no
[07:34:31] <rue_house> heh, hmm
[07:34:35] <abcminiuser> I've done the simplest abstractions possible to make semi usable demos
[07:34:44] <abcminiuser> No fancy pants generate Arduino/ASF framework
[07:35:00] <megal0maniac> rue_house:
http://www.visualmicro.com/
[07:35:43] <abcminiuser> Better link with no whitespace change noise:
https://github.com/abcminiuser/lufa/commit/fdf50e941126140cdb1f87296ea05079ab25e5f7?w=1
[07:36:29] <abcminiuser> Just ignore the documentation fixes to the other XMEGA boards in that commit, I forgot to stage those seperately
[07:36:40] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: Off the top of your head, can you tell me of a board with 1 LED and 1 button?
[07:37:00] <megal0maniac> I intend to copy-paste and change maks
[07:37:02] <megal0maniac> masks
[07:37:37] <rue_house> sweeet, my stepper controller lives!
[07:37:50] <twnqx> did it step away?
[07:38:03] <rue_house> just as fast as I commanded it to
[07:38:15] <rue_house> most of the time was taken up fixing gcc
[07:38:31] <rue_house> I still have a srange library problem somewehre
[07:39:05] <megal0maniac> If I get the U2S one right, I might attempt one for the xboard coco. But I won't submit that, given that only 3 exist :/
[07:39:10] <twnqx> fixing gcc Oo
[07:41:56] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, err
[07:42:00] <abcminiuser> One sec
[07:42:21] <abcminiuser> JMDBU2
[07:42:32] <megal0maniac> Cool, thanks
[07:43:55] * l9 is trying too figure out timers on a attiny...
[07:44:56] <rue_house> in general or for a specific purpose?
[07:45:44] <l9> just general learning the basics around avrs
[07:46:45] <rue_house> :)
[07:46:52] <l9> but i get kinda confused when it comes too ctc
[07:47:07] <rue_house> have you chosen a favorite avr for your projects?
[07:47:29] <abcminiuser> 19, have you read the Newbies Guide to AVR Timers tutorial?
[07:47:33] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, why is everybody still using atmega when there is atxmega?
[07:47:44] <abcminiuser> It's for MEGA devices, but it's still semi applicable to tinys
[07:47:46] <megal0maniac> I was waiting for both of those comments :D
[07:48:04] <rue_house> because you dont need a 15 pound sledgehammer to install finishing nails
[07:48:09] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, lack of DIP packaging for some, scared of complexity for others
[07:48:15] <OndraSter> but xmega is cheaper than mega, rue_
[07:48:17] <OndraSter> rue_house,
[07:48:24] <abcminiuser> Frankly they're brilliant chips
[07:48:33] <GuShH> rue_house: you don't?
[07:48:33] <rue_house> dont need it
[07:48:39] <rue_house> I'm flashing leds
[07:48:43] <abcminiuser> New XMEGA E essentially obsoletes 99% of TINY and MEGAs
[07:48:54] <GuShH> cost?
[07:48:55] <rue_house> and DIP
[07:48:59] <OndraSter> well still no 8pin xmega :)
[07:49:02] <OndraSter> or <32pin
[07:49:12] <megal0maniac> Now THAT would be nice
[07:49:14] <abcminiuser> The package is REALLY small
[07:49:19] <OndraSter> sure
[07:49:21] <rue_house> no 6 pin xmega?
[07:49:21] <abcminiuser> So with that kinda footprint, who cares?
[07:49:31] <OndraSter> still bigger than attiny13a though
[07:49:33] <megal0maniac> Me!
[07:49:42] <OndraSter> something like.. 8pin, hardware USB
[07:49:48] <OndraSter> that leaves 4 GPIO
[07:49:52] <OndraSter> enough for many things :(
[07:49:54] <OndraSter> :)
[07:50:06] <l9> abcminiuser: i am reading it now :) but what confuses me is the 8 bit vs 16 clock and the wgm12 bit.. could that be used for both clocks or... haha like i said learning the ropes bits by bits
[07:50:28] <rue_house> l9, there is a series of devices in a chain
[07:50:49] <rue_house> a few of them give you options on what devices comprise the next link
[07:51:26] <abcminiuser> I have a QFN XMEGA E on my desk
[07:51:32] <abcminiuser> Good novelty, but not a production package
[07:51:42] <twnqx> bah qfn
[07:51:52] <OndraSter> BGA!
[07:51:53] <twnqx> far too annoying to solder
[07:52:10] <rue_house> OndraSter, oh oh oh, do you have bga equiip?
[07:52:29] <rue_house> I have about 15 board I need to bga's reseated on!
[07:52:30] <OndraSter> I was joking
[07:52:31] <twnqx> do you need more than a microwave to heat it up?
[07:52:38] <rue_house> oh, damn
[07:52:58] <rue_house> they always seem to be breaking away from the baord...
[07:53:16] * rue_house checks if his s key is working... s s s s s s s
[07:53:49] <megal0maniac> Aw
[07:54:05] <megal0maniac> xmega E5 isn't in DIP
[07:54:28] <megal0maniac> But tqfp isn't so bad and it's 32pin
[07:54:34] <twnqx> tqfp is ok
[07:55:14] <abcminiuser> Surface mount really isn't that bad
[07:55:19] <abcminiuser> Or rather, the leaded packages
[07:55:33] <abcminiuser> Ones with bottom pads are painful
[07:55:33] <megal0maniac> For quick prototyping, or playing
[07:55:41] <rue_house> esp if you take hte time to make a PID controlled taoster oven
[07:55:53] <rue_house> ;)
[07:56:40] <megal0maniac> Oh..
[07:56:41] <rue_house> I love the stuff the paper mill throws out
[07:56:52] <megal0maniac> There's still no 32pin xmega with USB
[07:57:06] <megal0maniac> The E5 is really nice, but no USB
[07:57:16] <rue_house> isn't the xmega fast enough to bitbang usb2.0?
[07:57:27] <megal0maniac> 32mhz
[07:57:29] <rue_house> the tiny2313 could do usb1
[07:57:30] <abcminiuser> Yup, but it's still good enough to replace most MEGAs and TINYs
[07:57:45] <rue_house> ?
[07:57:58] <megal0maniac> Well the m328, yeah, but maybe not the 32u4
[07:58:12] <rue_house> I think thats where it started? abcminiuser was that you?
[07:58:27] <megal0maniac> Not if you want 32pin with USB
[07:59:35] <twnqx> i want ft345s :X
[07:59:43] <rue_house> I been up for 17 hours, I wonder if I should plan a nap
[07:59:51] <twnqx> simple to use usb 3.0
[07:59:53] <rue_house> I probably shouldn't be coding
[08:05:22] <megal0maniac> XCL looks cool
[08:05:51] <megal0maniac> Yes, you can do it in software, but still
[08:06:14] <megal0maniac> "Operates in active mode and all sleep modes"
[08:14:24] * megal0maniac will get an xmega32e5 to play with one day :)
[08:30:59] <iSaleK> Hi everyone :)
[08:31:28] <OndraSter> hi Mr. Guest
[08:32:40] <Guest56090> lol, now I can't change my nick back because I forgot to identify it :\
[08:32:46] <Guest56090> Nevermind...
[08:33:21] <Guest56090> Did any of you tried to hack a CameraSystem Twistercam RC helicopter?
[08:33:43] <Guest56090> It has WiFi control and it has camera that can write to SD card
[08:34:02] <Guest56090> I would like to hack it to make some kind of video-feed
[08:34:36] <Guest56090> the problem is that helicopter is about 80g and it cannot lift too much weight so adding another board to him would ground him
[08:34:45] <Guest56090> Any ideas?
[08:35:00] <specing> Ah consumer electronics, designed for one very specific purpuse
[08:36:50] <rue_house> yay! success, I'm gonna take a nap
[08:36:51] <Guest56090> I tought to hack it with SD card with WiFi but I can't seem to find one around me so I have to figure something else :\
[08:37:48] <specing> can't you just replace the whole board?
[09:14:18] <RikusW> guest needed to do release...
[09:14:32] <RikusW> probably got nick protection enabled
[09:16:57] <twnqx> is theBear around?
[09:17:08] * RikusW just came up with an idea to measure Vcc using the AVR ADC
[09:17:18] <twnqx> "wow"
[09:17:40] <RikusW> measure the temp sensor with 1v1 reference, then with Vcc as ref and do some math
[09:17:57] <RikusW> on t25
[09:18:05] <RikusW> I don't have any spare pins....
[09:18:12] <RikusW> should work ok I guess
[09:19:24] <tzanger> could you not also do the same thing with a resistor divider? top to vref, mid to ain, bottom to ground
[09:19:53] <tzanger> does your avr have an internal reference? it'd only work with that because you could switch between 2.56 and vcc
[09:20:20] <RikusW> int ref is 1.1 or 2.5V
[09:20:26] <RikusW> and the PCB is already done....
[09:20:34] <RikusW> and no spare pins...
[09:21:18] <RikusW> at 1v1 ref should get around 280 from ADC and 4v2 about 73
[09:22:44] <theBear> maybe
[09:22:55] <theBear> i sure ain't no square <grin>
[09:23:21] <twnqx> :)
[09:24:13] <twnqx> http://www.reichelt.de/bilder/web/artikel_ws/B400/L-07HCP.jpg vs.
http://www.reichelt.de/bilder/web/artikel_ws/B400/FED1.jpg
[09:24:28] <twnqx> are the two different builds of inductors exchangeable for power conversion purposes?
[09:25:23] <twnqx> (forward conversion)
[09:26:24] <GuShH> the former has an iron core the latter a ferrite core, plus your question is vague at best.
[09:27:07] <twnqx> the question would simply be: if i have a 750µH/6A inductor of either type for a forward converter, does it matter which one i choose
[09:27:34] <theBear> can't really see why not, assuming the specs both suit... i know the linear ones have more magnetic leakage and external field, erm, probably a few other things that will show clearly in specs, but if inductance suits i can't see anything stopping it working.... also what GuShH says, tho i've seen both shapes in various materials
[09:27:41] <GuShH> any inductor can be used with any former or inductance compliant to your design, toroidals are chosen for their flux properties among other aspects.
[09:28:08] <GuShH> theBear: but if you look closely the core is painted yellow which 99% of the time means it's iron powder
[09:28:29] <twnqx> i only was looking for the build type, toroidal versus whatever you call them
[09:28:32] <GuShH> also can I have some of your most potent pills? I spent a day in bed and I couldn't move for over a day
[09:29:03] <twnqx> because they have different names, the non-toriodal ones apparently are called chokes :X
[09:29:17] <GuShH> twnqx: like theBear said, there are losses and noise involved, among other aspects.
[09:29:30] <GuShH> a choke is commonly a low value inductor though again, it all depends on what it's meant to do
[09:29:33] <GuShH> and not how it looks :p
[09:29:40] <theBear> GuShH, mmm, i didn't know that colour, and the first one looks like a cad drawing, so i assumed no type :)
[09:30:00] <GuShH> the one ending on 07HCP is indeed a render
[09:30:06] <twnqx> indeed, those are not exaclt the ones i am interested in, just placeholders for build types
[09:30:28] <theBear> nah,the non toroidal are somewhere between linear core and umm, probably just linear core inductors... i've got toroid chokes, i bet the pc/laptop you are using right now has at least 1 toroid choke in the psu somewhere
[09:30:45] <GuShH> unless it's REALLY cheap
[09:31:10] <GuShH> then it runs off a series capacitor and it buzzes every time you stare at it (not)
[09:31:15] <twnqx> for me it's not about price, but about being able to buy them off the shelve :X
[09:31:27] <GuShH> it's cynical time
[09:32:11] <GuShH> twnqx: depending on the application it could be either critical or non critical
[09:32:17] <GuShH> cost aside.
[09:32:25] <twnqx> :X
[09:32:45] <theBear> twnqx, if yer getting into that kind of theory, it's kinda educational and cool, and very cheap, to salvage some cores, make maybe an avr-based inductance meter (assuming you don't already have one like most people,) then either practice the math or just ballpark wind and measure and tune the coils yourself
[09:32:52] <twnqx> primary side switch mode PSU, PFC part, switching at 20-100khz frequency
[09:33:14] <twnqx> the exact figure doesn't matter anyway
[09:33:26] <twnqx> changing with frequency, temperature and current anyway
[09:33:39] <GuShH> most people have an inductance meter?
[09:33:42] <GuShH> I thought most people didn't!
[09:33:47] <twnqx> i would agree to the latter
[09:33:49] <GuShH> it took me a while to get my first one...
[09:33:55] <GuShH> and it wasn't a great one.
[09:34:14] <GuShH> but if you've got a scope, you're set.
[09:35:10] <twnqx> not yet. can't make up my mind.
[09:35:21] <twnqx> (the cheap vs. good thingy hits me all the time)
[09:35:23] <GuShH> can't have it all in one
[09:35:38] <GuShH> you could get close to all-in-one with enough money though
[09:35:49] <twnqx> yeah, i saw scopes that cost more than my car
[09:35:59] <GuShH> there are scopes that cost more than a big house
[09:36:13] <twnqx> well yes, then there were the ones with "call for a quite"
[09:36:16] <twnqx> in the 25ghz range
[09:36:29] <twnqx> but i can't foresee a use for that atm.
[09:36:42] <twnqx> (also, i can't see a way to afford them :P=)
[09:36:47] <GuShH> a typical medium sized up-to-date electronics lab, say specialized in RF will cost more than an urban city block :/
[09:37:25] <GuShH> twnqx: there really isn't much you'd do at home that would require one of 'em.
[09:37:59] <GuShH> it's best not to look at the top of the line products, for your own sake :p
[09:38:12] <twnqx> yeah
[09:38:20] <twnqx> i am torn between 100 and 250mhz
[09:38:20] <GuShH> some of us are perfectly happy with our old analog scopes, for now
[09:38:52] <twnqx> and chinese cheap stuff like regol or uni-t, and the real things
[09:38:53] <GuShH> bandwidth isn't everything
[09:39:13] <GuShH> well, if you are going to buy used equipment... it's a bit problematic.
[09:39:20] <GuShH> unless you're buying from someone you trust.
[09:39:36] <GuShH> since a scope out of calibration is pretty much a useless scope
[09:39:50] <GuShH> and without another scope, you can't quite calibrate it, or fix it.
[09:40:13] <twnqx> (hameg, tektronix, agilent)
[09:40:46] <twnqx> or just a usb scope in the 50mhz range with no internal dispay
[09:41:12] <GuShH> hamegg? hamsammich?, maybe Hantek :p they're not exactly up to par with the other two you named...
[09:41:50] <GuShH> try rohde & schwarz
[09:41:52] <twnqx> Tektronix TDS7404 - 4GHz - 4CH - 20GSa/s
[09:41:57] <twnqx> 7.2k€ used
[09:41:58] <twnqx> :X
[09:42:06] <twnqx> heh, r&s
[09:42:13] <GuShH> a bit useless for someone who never owned or maybe even used a scope
[09:42:28] <GuShH> don't get me started on entry level "usb scopes"
[09:43:23] <twnqx> tektronix 2220
[09:43:29] <twnqx> 240€
[09:43:35] <twnqx> repaired after some capacitor exploded inside :X
[09:43:49] <thetruthisoutthe> hi guys
[09:44:14] <Fleck> http://paste.opensuse.org/52362840 << I know, this is not #arduino, but maybe you know why the bitshifting does not work right?
[09:44:25] * GuShH frowns
[09:44:29] <GuShH> god dammit
[09:44:34] <inkjetunito> eevblog #359
[09:44:37] <theBear> GuShH, if i didn't say most don't have L meters, meant to say that :)
[09:44:51] <GuShH> theBear: maybe I read that wrong
[09:44:52] <thetruthisoutthe> i have changed my called functions' attributes that i call from an ISR to static inline void and now my code works, why is this?
[09:45:01] * RikusW got an RLC VI meter :)
[09:45:14] <theBear> GuShH, maybe i typed it wrong, who knows :)
[09:45:15] <GuShH> I'm reading this price tag correctly though, something I was going to buy is now 20% more expensive
[09:45:16] <Fleck> freq = ((uint32_t)temp[3] << 24) + ((uint32_t)temp[2] << 16) + ((uint32_t)temp[1] << 8) + (uint32_t)temp[0]; << works higher, but still messes up at around 24bits...
[09:45:17] <RikusW> Wavetek DM27XT
[09:45:24] <GuShH> they increased the price twice this month
[09:45:34] <GuShH> bastards
[09:46:03] <theBear> one day 'soon' i'm gonna make myself a little avr based L meter, and it will please me, not to mention forward my education/experimenting/use of random salvaged inductor and transformer bits radically :)
[09:47:40] <GuShH> so this lathe was ~3800 now it's 4199
[09:47:58] <GuShH> on this other store it used to be 3250 bucks about... a month or so ago
[09:48:45] <GuShH> theBear: if well calibrated it'll be enough for most applications.
[09:48:46] <theBear> mmmm, sounds like now would be a good time to not buy one of those :)
[09:48:56] <twnqx> TDS684B 2300€
[09:49:00] <twnqx> 4 channels, 1ghz
[09:49:04] <twnqx> argh
[09:49:10] <GuShH> if I don't buy it now it'll cost twice as much by the end of the year
[09:49:11] <twnqx> shouldn't have gone to ebay, tempting again
[09:49:32] <thetruthisoutthe> will calling a function from within an ISR enable interrupts?
[09:49:35] <GuShH> twnqx: most of the high bandwidth will be available at 50Ohms only though
[09:49:49] <twnqx> thetruthisoutthe: normally not.
[09:49:49] <theBear> GuShH, yeah, and it shouldn't be hard, i've gone over the basics/theory more than a few times over the years... but it'll really open up the usefulness of random/unknown value cores for my current mid/longterm interest/learning about all that magneticey and inductey stuff
[09:49:54] <GuShH> for applications you aren't even aware of, mostly.
[09:50:10] <GuShH> I have a half-finished LCR meter project on the bench, somewhere.
[09:50:21] <GuShH> It began as a frequency meter
[09:50:45] <twnqx> GuShH: but the price is almost too good to be true
[09:50:56] <Fleck> nevermind, double casting worked.... :/
[09:50:58] <GuShH> twnqx: then it's either empty on the inside or entirely trashed
[09:51:02] <GuShH> maybe even water damaged.
[09:51:05] <GuShH> "sold as is, can't test it"
[09:51:44] <GuShH> buying used scopes off eBay is like buying chinese components, you are bound to get fakes / nailed in the arse sooner or later.
[09:52:04] <GuShH> also shipping damage, who takes care of that?
[09:52:09] <theBear> GuShH, micros are 'good' like that, once you got a screen and a couple inputs and outputs wired to somewhere, a freq counter isn't really different to a L meter, or 100 other things :)
[09:52:38] <GuShH> well mine was going to measure the relative frequency shift of the LC oscillator to estimate the X value
[09:52:57] <GuShH> so it's smart to start with the frequency measuring bit :p
[09:53:15] <twnqx> certified recalibrated with warranty, same scope: 4200€
[09:54:07] <GuShH> certified 20 years ago? :p
[09:54:29] <twnqx> nah, it's a used parts shop that specializes in that stuff
[09:54:29] <tzanger> twnqx: that's closer the the scope I want... 2.5GHz analog bandwidth (min, would ideally like 5GHz), probes and 4 channels
[09:54:37] <GuShH> twnqx: no offense but do you actually have a use for that scope? have you owned a scope or used one before?
[09:54:43] <twnqx> used, yes
[09:54:49] <twnqx> ... 17 years ago in university
[09:55:01] <GuShH> so a CRO most likely or an early DSO
[09:55:02] <twnqx> and no, i'm not willing to shell out 4 grand for a scope.
[09:55:17] <GuShH> If I found 4 grand I would be very willing to spend it on a scope
[09:55:18] <tzanger> the high bandwidth ones usually have two input channels for each channel, a 50ohm one and a standard 1Mohm
[09:55:20] <twnqx> before i change my field of work to electronics
[09:55:41] <twnqx> i would expect tektronix to solve that with probes
[09:56:04] <tzanger> 5GHz scope probes are insanely expensive
[09:56:11] <GuShH> I guess I'm not willing to spend that money on a lathe either, knowing it was nearly 1k cheaper A MONTH AGO
[09:56:32] <GuShH> active probes typically are.
[09:56:40] <GuShH> even more so if you want a matched set
[09:56:43] * GuShH shivers
[09:57:17] <thetruthisoutthe> 2.5G rated ptfe coax is about $7/m
[09:57:30] <GuShH> ...
[09:57:53] <tzanger> you usually end up soldering the probes to the board too
[09:58:02] <tzanger> high frequency scope probes are odd things
[09:58:53] <GuShH> this other store refuses to accept payment upon delivery, what kind of world is this
[09:59:37] <abcminiuser> XMEGA branch merged to master :P
[09:59:42] <abcminiuser> *sticks fingers in ears*
[09:59:44] <megal0maniac_afk> Yay!
[10:00:57] <GuShH> theBear: ok so I began to dig in, found another auction by the same user and it's listed with the old price... another user asked what's the difference between the one for $3845 and the one at $4199, they answered "no difference" ... sons of bitches!
[10:01:52] <GuShH> I've seen this on eBay where they have slight price discrepancies to catch sales, but never that big of a difference.
[10:04:58] <theBear> GuShH, heh, that's classic ebay.... and that's why people like you and me who can think do better than fools
[10:05:26] <GuShH> I wonder if egay.com was secretly bought by ebay.com
[10:05:35] * GuShH once entered egay.com by mistake
[10:05:49] <theBear> oh dear
[10:05:56] <theBear> least you didn't login and start commenting away :)
[10:06:03] <thetruthisoutthe> abcminiuser <= i have changed my called functions' attributes that i call from an ISR to static inline void and now my code works, why is this?
[10:06:05] <thetruthisoutthe> ;/
[10:06:08] <GuShH> >_<
[10:06:23] <abcminiuser> thetruthisoutthe, pastebin your code
[10:06:31] <abcminiuser> It shouldn't make any difference other than the ISR speed
[10:06:34] * GuShH waves to abcminiuser
[10:06:39] <abcminiuser> Heyo
[10:06:44] <GuShH> hiho
[10:06:48] <thetruthisoutthe> he
[10:06:49] <thetruthisoutthe> y
[10:08:15] <GuShH> theBear: So I took 50mg of sodium diclofenac and nothing... what's the next best thing? aside from 100mg
[10:09:35] <GuShH> (lower back pain)
[10:09:40] <theBear> hey man, you're talking to a guy who is getting more manic by the hour and hasn't managed more than 3 hours of sleep (more likely just drunken resting) in 3 or 4 days
[10:09:48] <theBear> oh,diclofenac, got confused
[10:09:55] <theBear> sounds like a sedative....
[10:10:03] <GuShH> hmm I had 15 hours sleep because of the pain
[10:10:17] <GuShH> it's a muscle relaxant
[10:10:49] <GuShH> Don't think it works for me anymore. Used to, at one point...
[10:10:52] <theBear> umm, i can't take things like that anymore, they ruined my stomach too much... dpeends a bit what works better/worse for you, but 20-50mg of codeine maybe with a little paracetamol isn't a bad thing
[10:11:07] <GuShH> I never took any of them regularly
[10:11:11] <theBear> yeah, i remembered once i got unconfused, voltaren is the brand here
[10:11:11] <GuShH> I know they can ruin your stomach
[10:11:13] <GuShH> ulcers...
[10:11:28] <GuShH> voltaren is a brand here as well
[10:11:44] <GuShH> I just had some of that gel stuff applied, doesn't work.
[10:12:00] <theBear> yeah, i had their big big brother daily prescription style last year, it tore my stomach a new one, i avoid them all now (nsaid is the style/family of drug) ....
[10:12:13] <GuShH> so I took a 50mg pill, doesn't work.
[10:12:18] <theBear> yeah, the gel is only good for minor sprains and stuff, the pills are for more serious stuff, but not real serious
[10:12:29] <GuShH> :(
[10:12:33] <theBear> got codeine handy ? like panadol forte or something ?
[10:12:41] <GuShH> nope
[10:12:45] <GuShH> no actual drugs handy
[10:13:00] <GuShH> and paracetamol does nothing either...
[10:13:29] <GuShH> This is when I think pot could be helpful
[10:14:29] * GuShH blinks
[10:14:51] <theBear> yeah, paracetamol never done a thing for me, headaches pain whatever, not since i was a kid, actually that's not true,i suspect it helps a little with swelling, like twisted ankles
[10:15:14] <GuShH> all I know is I took all those three things and I'm still hurting bad :(
[10:15:25] <GuShH> with a back brace and lots of rest
[10:15:47] <GuShH> surgery is the only way out I guess, but who wants to end up a veggie
[10:16:30] <edmont> hi
[10:16:34] <GuShH> hi
[10:17:15] <edmont> i'm using atmega128rfa1, do you know if it is possible for the bootloader to program the flash from the flash itself?
[10:17:38] <GuShH> theBear: ever used jb-weld or something like it? I wonder if it copes well with the expansion of aluminum on stainless steel
[10:17:39] <edmont> 62 kB max program size
[10:18:01] <GuShH> I think epoxies aren't very good in those terms
[10:18:14] <edmont> 62k program + 62k storage + 4k bootloader
[10:18:20] <GuShH> hence why I tried a high temperature sealant, didn't work.
[10:19:00] <theBear> GuShH, very very little, tho i'd like to play with it more, seems handy... here normal places only have araldite 5min and 24hr epoxies, and both are pretty useless for most things
[10:19:14] <GuShH> heh yeah I had a hard time finding it
[10:19:19] <GuShH> I wanted the Loctite one though
[10:19:22] <GuShH> impossible to get here.
[10:19:40] <GuShH> in fact jb-weld doesn't exist here, I got a similar product.
[10:19:54] <GuShH> http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/epxy_metal_s/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Metal-Concrete.htm
[10:20:07] <GuShH> thing is, there's no way (that I know of) for welding stainless to alu
[10:20:27] <theBear> mmmm, loctite always been good, i'd trust that
[10:20:32] <GuShH> which is why the alu fitting is screwed onto the SS, but it became leaky and I can't remove it to seal it from the inside, tried using a vacuum pump + high temp sealant, doesn't work.
[10:20:41] <theBear> i'm not real good with metal theory
[10:21:10] * GuShH hears a shotgun going off and then a duck
[10:21:12] <GuShH> :|
[10:21:33] <GuShH> not much theory as facts, the alu is expanding a lot more than the steel
[10:22:06] <GuShH> which is why I applied the silicone when it was hot, dry and free of contaminants, but it didn't hold 4BAR, let alone the 8BAR the boiler is rated for
[10:23:00] <theBear> a duck going off ? like, totally boogying down ? :)
[10:23:46] <GuShH> could've been a water heater exploding for all I know, but it was too sharp not to be a shotgun.
[10:24:23] <GuShH> who knows, I'm 30KMs from "the city" people are a bit more outdoorsy here.
[10:24:55] <GuShH> ooh
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/epxy_weld_t/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Weld-Bonding-Compound.htm
[10:41:01] <GuShH> theBear: bleh I'll let you know if the generic stuff is worth it, the only good thing about epoxy is that it lasts a long time (unless you somehow manage to mix the catalyst in by mistake)
[10:41:40] <GuShH> things like CA always seem to dry on me, even if they're sealed with no moisture inside
[10:57:45] <theBear> ca is tricky, for the VERY few things it's perfect for it's good, but there aren't many of those
[10:58:10] <GuShH> I've been using it to repair a marble countertop
[10:58:19] <GuShH> for the visible portion, epoxy for the bonding.
[10:58:46] <GuShH> basically mix in marble dust with the CA to fill in the gap, then sand down and polish
[10:59:00] <GuShH> looks very similar to the actual marble and it's the only cheap solution I've found
[11:04:10] <theBear> mmm, sounds about right... depending on the style of marble you can put in highlights and squiggles and stuff if yer get a bit creative
[11:04:59] <GuShH> heh I just want it repaired
[11:08:47] <beaky> hello
[11:09:28] <beaky> must I connect all the GND pins in my avr to my circuit?
[11:09:35] <beaky> or can I connect just one side?
[11:09:56] <twnqx> no, all. always. for every chip on the planet.
[11:10:30] <GuShH> whatever happened to analog and digital grounds, oh and floating grounds in the planet
[11:10:36] * GuShH pouts
[11:10:44] <twnqx> um
[11:10:56] <GuShH> hohum
[11:10:57] <twnqx> you might have separate analog and digital grounds
[11:11:06] <twnqx> connected to separate planes
[11:11:14] <twnqx> but you still should not leave them unconnected
[11:11:23] <beaky> yeah must i also connect the avcc and aref even if i dont use adc?
[11:11:27] <beaky> ah thanks
[11:11:31] <twnqx> avcc, yes
[11:11:35] <twnqx> aref, no
[11:11:48] <twnqx> but put a capacitor for good measures.
[11:12:02] <GuShH> 38 bucks for a tiny solenoid valve... the hell, it's a tube with a coil and a rubber o-ring, what's going on china!!
[11:12:15] <beaky> what's a solenoid
[11:12:15] <twnqx> GuShH: and floating grounds... well
[11:12:30] <twnqx> an electronmagnet operated valve, in this context
[11:13:23] <GuShH> beaky: nevermind twnqx's answer: it's a manly pneumatic switch that goes KAKLONK when you actuate it!
[11:13:40] <twnqx> lol
[11:13:41] * GuShH grins
[11:13:59] <beaky> wow
[11:14:05] <twnqx> you made me lol IRL
[11:14:11] <beaky> I wanna build a cool thing with avr someday
[11:14:20] <GuShH> and manly solenoid valves too
[11:14:27] <beaky> but at the moment I am still learning how to blink leds in a particular order :(
[11:14:43] <GuShH> led chaser project!
[11:15:14] <RikusW> edmont: its is possible
[11:15:54] <RikusW> edmont: demo asm code for mega8
http://www.ruemohr.org/code/BLM8.zip
[11:17:21] <RikusW> beaky: aref -> 100nF -> Gnd
[11:18:00] <edmont> thanks RikusW
[11:18:13] <beaky> why is it a good idea to stick capacitors to my power pins?
[11:18:22] <GuShH> decoupling for one
[11:18:24] * beaky is not an electrical engineer
[11:18:34] * GuShH is not a rabbit
[11:18:46] <beaky> :D
[11:19:07] <GuShH> beaky: then your answer is to filter out common noise in the power rail, in this case.
[11:19:13] <beaky> ah
[11:19:35] <GuShH> because every Fckn thing emits noise.
[11:19:39] <RikusW> edmont: I did that for mega8, should be easily portable to other AVRs, using SPM is finicky, if not done _exactly_ right it will fail....
[11:19:40] <beaky> so a capacitor is like a thing to control jittery current?
[11:19:44] <beaky> jittery signals*
[11:20:29] <RikusW> edmont: it is a STK500 style bootloader so AS or avrdude (stk500pp) can use it
[11:21:18] <GuShH> beaky: the vagueness of this conversation is making my brain hurt but yes in essence that's one of it's many uses.
[11:21:32] <GuShH> to smooth out ripples
[11:21:36] <beaky> ah
[11:21:58] <beaky> alright I will stick 100 nF capacitors to all my power pins except the GND and REF
[11:24:47] <GuShH> if it makes you happy!
[11:25:56] <GuShH> these little boards are neat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180947008880?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[11:26:00] <beaky> will it make my atmega16 happy? :D
[11:26:14] <GuShH> yes
[11:26:21] <Tom_L> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Computer_Systems/Standalone_Mobile/Study_Only_one_in_10_smartphone_owners_willing_to_wear_Google_Glass_regularly.aspx
[11:26:21] <beaky> yay
[11:26:44] <Tom_L> haha
[11:26:46] <Tom_L> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Computer_Systems/Servers/International_Space_Station_makes_switch_from_Windows_8_to_Linux.aspx
[11:27:10] <GuShH> hmmm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM2596-DC-DC-Converter-4-40V-to-1-5-35V-Step-down-Adjustable-Power-Supply-Module/151047329526?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D7794433382413615380%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D180947008880%26
[11:29:32] <thetruthisoutthe> beaky <= yes
[11:29:54] <thetruthisoutthe> 100nf is always
[11:30:27] <GuShH> not always
[11:30:54] <GuShH> can be 10nF, 1nF, 100pF, depends.
[11:31:11] <beaky> I am scared that my capacitor will blow up :(
[11:31:24] <GuShH> is it not ceramic or poly?
[11:31:40] <beaky> the sales guy said it was ceramic
[11:31:48] <GuShH> a ceramic will only blow up if over-volted, which could cause it to fail short and eventually crack open or pop
[11:31:54] <beaky> ah
[11:32:57] <GuShH> that happens as the dielectric layer is breached by the exceeding voltage and both plates electrically conductive with each other as a result you've got a vague resistor instead of a capacitor.
[11:33:19] <GuShH> my phrasing sucks today I need more coffee, or less pain. whatever comes first!
[11:33:40] <beaky> right; I will always keep my volts under 9v
[11:34:03] <GuShH> my volts are over 9000
[11:34:19] <beaky> wow that's high, are you doing a tesla coil thing? :D
[11:34:28] <GuShH> even the smallest ceramic will typically handle 16v
[11:34:47] <GuShH> actually tesla coils will reach way over 100kv and near the 1.000.000v range
[11:36:07] <Tom_L> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Packaging_and_Hardware/Prototyping_Tools_Equipment_Services/Othermill_A_low_cost_high_quality_desktop_mill.aspx
[11:38:45] <GuShH> god damn it, this jb-weld I got doesn't say what temperatures it's good for
[12:00:52] <Badaboom> wasnt aware you could jb weld an avr
[12:01:00] <Badaboom> but i guess u can
[12:03:34] <Casper> http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/apr98/breadbrd.html ← that too can be done
[12:07:54] <beaky> How can I
[12:43:09] <Badaboom> lmao,, next week is a chalupa board
[12:56:16] <Badaboom> 4 new atmega328 just arrived:)
[13:03:30] <Badaboom> Anyone here?
[13:04:51] <thetruthisoutthe> -
[13:05:04] <Badaboom> Hey
[13:05:19] <thetruthisoutthe> jb-weld and avr ?
[13:05:34] <Badaboom> lol,, im not sure if he meant an avr..lol
[13:05:50] <thetruthisoutthe> that is non-conducting i think
[13:06:08] <thetruthisoutthe> also if you want to use conductive epoxy you will have troubles because of the fine pitch
[13:06:12] <Badaboom> can u unbrick one avr using another?
[13:06:29] <RikusW> yes
[13:06:35] <Badaboom> Ive heard you can but no sucess
[13:06:37] <thetruthisoutthe> unbrick?
[13:06:43] <Badaboom> 1mhz to xtal 1?
[13:06:48] <RikusW> you can supply a clock if you set the clock fuses incorrectly
[13:07:17] <RikusW> if you disabled ISP you'll need HVPP
[13:07:31] <Badaboom> well,, i really want the 2 dead attiny2313's i have revived
[13:07:38] <RikusW> though hacking together a HVPP fuse programmer is rather trivial
[13:07:47] <Badaboom> Whats at the heart of HVPP 328?
[13:08:04] <RikusW> ?
[13:08:22] <Badaboom> the processor used,, i thought its an atmega328
[13:09:19] <RikusW> STK500 or STK600 can do HVPP
[13:09:28] <Badaboom> I dont have either:(
[13:09:39] <RikusW> or you can make a simple one using another AVR
[13:09:49] <RikusW> just read the datasheet programming section
[13:10:02] <RikusW> doing only fuse HVPP is rather easy
[13:10:11] <Badaboom> oh the 12v part,, yeah,, forgot about that
[13:10:43] <RikusW> implementing HVPP flash programming is a bit harder
[13:12:26] <Badaboom> I remember it requires alot of resistors
[13:12:43] <Badaboom> one for each line
[13:17:36] <Badaboom> bah,, its calling for an atmega8
[13:31:31] <thetruthisoutthe> Badaboom <= Tom_itx sells a hvpp restore circuit
[13:32:03] <Badaboom> hmm,, have a link?
[13:36:00] <thetruthisoutthe> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/commerce/commerce_index.php
[13:36:08] <thetruthisoutthe> AtTiny10 Reset Fuse Recovery Board
[13:37:16] <thetruthisoutthe> I don't know if it would work on your chip too
[13:40:15] <Badaboom> yup,, all 8bit's it says,, so ty
[13:40:30] <Badaboom> Its always good to have one around
[13:42:54] <thetruthisoutthe> where did you see that?
[13:43:00] <thetruthisoutthe> AtTiny10 Reset Fuse Recovery Board
[13:43:13] <thetruthisoutthe> Description
[13:43:14] <thetruthisoutthe> This board is designed to work in combination with the USBTinyMkII shown above on the new 6pin Attiny 4, 5, 9 and 10 allowing recovery from programming the RSTDISBL fuse when using the Reset pin as an IO. The switch selects between normal TPI and 12v modes. It simply plugs between the USBTinyMkII TPI plug and your target Tiny chip. The adapter has not been approved to work on any other chips.
[13:44:33] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx!
[13:44:35] <thetruthisoutthe> ask Tom_itx what it supports
[13:46:07] <megal0maniac> RikusW is nearly done with a board which will do HV on any 8bit AVR
[13:46:42] <megal0maniac> Base board is done and PCB for the adapter board is done and components have been ordered :)
[13:48:36] <thetruthisoutthe> a 12kB firmware is considered large in a MCU ?
[13:49:01] <megal0maniac> Depends on the application..
[13:49:19] <megal0maniac> And the size of the MCU :)
[13:49:27] <thetruthisoutthe> 16kB
[13:49:30] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[13:50:07] <thetruthisoutthe> it is like filling 60% of a hard drive with the os
[13:50:29] <megal0maniac> Unless your "harddrive" is a 1284p
[13:51:01] <megal0maniac> What are you talking about?
[13:51:13] <thetruthisoutthe> mega168
[13:51:24] <megal0maniac> But what "firmware?"
[13:52:26] <thetruthisoutthe> the thing i'm writing since 4 weeks
[13:54:16] <megal0maniac> As a benchmark, you can fit a USB stack and bootloader and programmer firmware (SPI and HV) and JTAGICE MKi emulator and usb to serial app and necessary code for management and selection into ~11kb
[13:54:37] <megal0maniac> Which is also considered fimrware :)
[13:54:57] <thetruthisoutthe> currently i have some ring buffer desync issues when hitting a key multiple times while a command is executing and being interrupted
[13:55:33] <megal0maniac> Debounce
[13:55:36] <thetruthisoutthe> done
[13:55:46] <megal0maniac> For as long as the command takeds to execute
[13:55:47] <thetruthisoutthe> interrupt debounce
[13:55:50] <thetruthisoutthe> 16ms
[13:56:10] <RikusW> megal0maniac: I'm done with the HVPP, just need more parts to complete the reset (headers from mantech)
[13:56:18] <RikusW> *rest
[13:56:33] <megal0maniac> thetruthisoutthe: I'm full of good ideas but I can't implement shit :)
[13:56:39] <thetruthisoutthe> hehe
[13:56:42] <RikusW> thetruthisoutthe: tom's hv circuit is for TPI only
[13:56:47] <Badaboom> sorry,, another phone call
[13:57:17] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I was just thinking actually, are you going to implement PDI into your programmer firmware?
[13:57:34] <megal0maniac> Or would emulating a MKII be too big?
[13:58:10] <thetruthisoutthe> megal0maniac <= i suspect it is not the multiple keypress that is problem, more like interrupting
[13:58:28] <thetruthisoutthe> pin change interrupt interrupts code at keypress/release event
[13:59:01] <thetruthisoutthe> introducing changed variables, and time delay
[13:59:02] <megal0maniac> Can't you just set a flag and check for it when the command is completed?
[13:59:38] <RikusW> megal0maniac: for now I'll let LUFA mkii do PDI for me
[13:59:44] <RikusW> STK500 don't support it
[13:59:47] <thetruthisoutthe> i don't know if i should disble the PCIE while executing a command ;/
[13:59:49] <megal0maniac> I know
[13:59:57] <RikusW> and I don't feel like doing STK600 just yet
[14:00:07] <thetruthisoutthe> it is not bad if it can queue keypresses
[14:00:39] <megal0maniac> STK600 is silly when MKII is already documented
[14:00:53] <RikusW> thetruthisoutthe: while in an interrupt all others are disabled
[14:01:05] <RikusW> STK600 is partly documented
[14:01:08] <thetruthisoutthe> thetruthisoutthe <= my command is not an interrupt
[14:01:19] <thetruthisoutthe> hahaha i talk to myself
[14:01:24] <megal0maniac> h
[14:01:36] <RikusW> except for the routing + topboards part....
[14:01:48] <thetruthisoutthe> RikusW <= my command is not an interrupt
[14:01:50] <megal0maniac> RikusW: And the protocol?
[14:02:10] <RikusW> there is an appnote for it, very similar to AVRISP mkii
[14:02:18] <megal0maniac> Oh..
[14:02:20] <RikusW> apart from the routing board stuff
[14:02:23] <megal0maniac> I thought it was still secret
[14:02:43] <RikusW> and jtag support which is jtagice mkii protocol encapsulated in stk600 protocol
[14:02:44] <megal0maniac> Ask Richard_Cavell for his :P
[14:03:03] <RikusW> dragon use stk500 encapsulated in jtagice mkii....
[14:03:03] <megal0maniac> Pretty sure it's dusty by now
[14:03:07] <RikusW> what a mess :-P
[14:03:46] <megal0maniac> I'm out. 4am to the airport tomorrow :/
[14:03:48] <megal0maniac> Night :)
[14:03:53] <RikusW> good night
[14:05:29] <megal0maniac> thetruthisoutthe: Not really going to help you, but if you were using an xmega, you could use the events system to deal with interrupts without interrupting the CPU. Pretty cool
[14:05:45] <thetruthisoutthe> :)
[14:16:35] <Badaboom> hmmso i take it it wont work then?
[14:16:41] <Badaboom> lol
[14:33:33] <iSaleK> So here is the deal. I have Twister Cam RC helicopter with 320x240 camera and sd card. When you record a video it stores it on the sd card. The challenge is to add live video feed with minimum changes and adding as few weigth to the RC helicopter as possible. On you disposal you have RaspberyPi and plenty of MCUs. The wireless communication that remote and helicopter use is closed source and accessible to you.
[14:33:49] <iSaleK> I'm interested how would you tackle this challenge?
[14:34:24] <iSaleK> The RC helicopter mentioned is TwisterCam ->
http://goo.gl/vtpje
[14:53:09] <iSaleK> Anyone? :)
[14:54:28] <RikusW> what data rate is that video ?
[14:54:47] <RikusW> you'll need a transmitter and receiver
[14:54:58] <RikusW> onse capable of a decent bitrate
[14:54:59] <RikusW> *ones
[14:58:05] <iSaleK> I think about 20fps or something like that. It doesn't matter, on the recieving end at least 2-5fps is needed
[14:58:05] <Badaboom> onse
[15:12:32] <thetruthisoutthe> iSaleK <= connect the camera to a radio transmitter, and use a receiver for it with a monitor
[15:12:54] <thetruthisoutthe> (or just get a camera that transmits video signal)
[16:24:17] <l9> RikusW: is it possible too run a pc build on a arm device like rpi
[16:32:21] <thetruthisoutthe> hey guys, how was that gcc always_inline attribute?
[17:13:58] <Hotroot> Let it be known across the land that Tom_itx ships products in like four seconds.
[17:14:37] <Hotroot> That is all
[17:36:23] <Voodoofish4302> Question related to fuses. is the only way to unset the debugwire flag to use a hv setup or jtagiceII setup?
[17:41:27] <OndraSter> Voodoofish4302, or use dW itself? :D
[17:41:31] <OndraSter> not hv
[18:13:55] <Badaboom> I hope noone here lived in the path of that tornado
[18:14:38] <OndraSter> what tornado?
[18:14:57] <Tom_itx> in OKC usa
[18:14:59] <Badaboom> The one that just went through Oklahoma City
[18:15:13] <Tom_itx> doesn't look good
[18:15:42] <Badaboom> no it doesnt..i was near there 3 years ago
[18:15:53] <Badaboom> In edmond
[18:17:24] <Badaboom> Tom_itx: im glad you are here,, i need an HVPP for a couple of my avr's
[18:17:56] <Badaboom> we were on your site earlier and i think the question is what device will do attiny2313's?
[18:18:05] <Tom_itx> dragon
[18:18:08] <Badaboom> rgr
[18:18:15] <Tom_itx> mine doesn't do hvpp
[18:18:33] <Tom_itx> i have an adapter to reset the reset fuse for the attiny 4 5 9 and 10
[18:18:58] <Badaboom> oh ok,, what about 328's and 644's atmega?
[18:19:26] <Badaboom> thats a just in case scenario but wanted to be prepared
[18:19:27] <Tom_itx> dragon would be the cheapest thing
[18:19:32] <Badaboom> ok
[18:19:52] <Tom_itx> unless RikusW has something
[18:19:58] <Tom_itx> not sure if he does or not
[18:20:17] <RikusW> I can disable dW yes
[18:21:12] <Tom_itx> but not hvpp
[18:21:26] <RikusW> Voodoofish4302: put a scope and 10k pullup on the reset pin then pull it down, release, you'll get 0x55 uart style
[18:21:43] <RikusW> use that to get the baud, usually avr clock/128
[18:21:55] <RikusW> and send back 0x06 to temporarily disable it
[18:22:02] <Tom_itx> i'm having usb driver issues here
[18:22:03] <RikusW> (until power cycle that is)
[18:22:07] <Badaboom> ok
[18:22:38] <RikusW> or calculate clock / 128 and use a uart to transmit 0x06 to the reset pin
[18:23:14] <Badaboom> no 12v?
[18:23:16] <RikusW> I used a transistor to make it open collector
[18:23:18] <RikusW> no 12V
[18:23:21] <Badaboom> kk
[18:23:30] <RikusW> ruemohr.org -> docs
[18:23:40] <RikusW> there is a doc explaining dW
[18:23:45] <Badaboom> rgr
[18:23:45] <RikusW> most of it
[18:24:04] <RikusW> even debugging
[18:26:56] <Badaboom> 2n2222 work?
[18:29:11] <RikusW> why not :)
[18:29:24] <Badaboom> cool,, i have one handy
[18:29:26] <RikusW> any general purpose npn should be fine
[18:29:30] <Badaboom> rgr
[18:29:35] <RikusW> and two 10k resistors
[18:30:01] <RikusW> while at it you can mess around a bit too, get a hex terminal maybe ?
[18:30:05] <Badaboom> yup,, plenty of those
[18:30:29] <Badaboom> do i have one ?
[18:31:33] <Badaboom> hex terminal ..editor?
[18:38:27] <RikusW> hex serial terminal app
[18:38:58] <RikusW> or just send the 0x06 and be done with it
[18:39:09] <Badaboom> kk
[18:39:15] * RikusW should get some sleep...
[18:39:29] <RikusW> hex terminal will give some feedback
[18:39:31] <Badaboom> alrigh ,, have a good night
[18:39:35] <RikusW> good night
[18:39:37] <Badaboom> ty
[18:39:43] <RikusW> 01:25 here ;)
[18:39:57] <Badaboom> ahh
[18:54:41] <Voodoofish4302> had a meeting sorry, anyway, OndraSter: I dont have any way to do dbw. I accidently a fuse... :(
[18:56:32] <Voodoofish4302> btw, I'm using an attiny85....I was going to try the hv programming via arduino since I had a couple of those lying around and have seen a way to do it....
[19:07:52] <Badaboom> 0x1e 095 0x0F ATMega328P Signature and 0x1e 095 014 Atmega328 signature
[19:08:03] <Badaboom> interesting
[19:11:14] <Tom_itx> they're different parts
[19:11:57] <Badaboom> yup
[19:18:21] <Voodoofish4302> one is low power, no?
[19:21:10] <Badaboom> Voodoofish4302: the p
[19:22:16] <Voodoofish4302> yep.
[19:41:01] <thetruthisoutthe> heyyyyyyyy
[19:43:28] <thetruthisoutthe> <Hotroot> Let it be known across the land that Tom_itx ships products in like four seconds. - what was that ?
[19:48:51] <Tom_itx> thetruthisoutthe
[19:48:57] <Tom_itx> do you like to wait for stuff?
[19:49:02] <Tom_itx> i don't
[19:49:08] <thetruthisoutthe> hehe
[19:49:15] <thetruthisoutthe> you sent him the thing in 4 secs ?:)
[19:49:23] <Tom_itx> i doubt it was that quick
[19:49:38] <Tom_itx> i try to get em out same or next day
[19:49:51] <thetruthisoutthe> you must have 24/7 package service up
[19:50:18] <Tom_itx> i'm not that far from the post
[19:51:07] <Tom_itx> which reminds me... i need to get one ready to go in the am
[19:51:20] <thetruthisoutthe> cool
[19:51:25] <thetruthisoutthe> you can do this internationally?
[19:52:00] <Tom_itx> sure can
[19:52:44] <thetruthisoutthe> exporintg importing from to the eu may have additional taxes
[19:53:12] <thetruthisoutthe> what is your experience?
[19:53:19] <Tom_itx> it shows little value
[19:53:28] <Tom_itx> $10
[19:53:50] <Tom_itx> usually not much if any
[19:54:06] <thetruthisoutthe> so only problem if $100 or more?
[19:54:19] <Tom_itx> not sure what the cutoff point is
[20:00:44] <thetruthisoutthe> Tom_itx, have they flagged your stuff as bomb yet? :)
[20:01:24] <thetruthisoutthe> TSA may do it anytime
[20:08:15] <Tom_itx> never
[20:30:32] <ambro718> I'm gonna try using an AVL tree to manage a timer queue, lol
[20:30:37] <ambro718> probably gonna be slow as hell
[21:14:01] <stanreg> ..knowing that each avr (tiny) pin can provide up to 40ma (according to specs) -- at 5v that means an output of 200mW. Why is it so unrecommended to run a, say, 1W LED by coupling 5 pin outputs?
[21:14:23] <Tom_L> that's just silly
[21:14:27] <Tom_L> use a mosfet
[21:14:35] <Valen> look at the max current per port
[21:14:50] <Valen> also that 40ma is the "absolute max rating"
[21:16:05] <stanreg> Valen, correct, it's a "guaranteed" absolute max of 50mA per *pin*.
[21:16:11] <stanreg> 40mA*
[21:16:49] <tzanger> there's a certain amount per min and then a max per port which is *not* the sum of the max per pins
[21:17:46] <stanreg> I see.
[21:19:27] <Tom_itx> sounds good until you read all the facts
