#avr | Logs for 2013-05-15

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[02:12:00] <Valen> whats the ISR for pcint1 called for a tiny84a
[02:12:07] <Valen> cant seem to guess it and can't work out where to find out
[02:12:15] <Valen> I would presume it would be something like PCINT1_VECT
[02:39:38] <OndraSter__> Valen, check the header file
[03:15:11] <Tom_itx> #define PCINT1_vect _VECTOR(3)
[03:15:16] <Tom_itx> case sensitive
[03:15:37] <Valen> thanks Tom_itx
[03:15:46] <Tom_itx> stupid headers
[03:16:02] <Valen> +1
[03:25:42] <Valen> hah, interrupt based button press thingie with debounce worked first go
[03:25:43] <Valen> w00t
[03:42:45] <mitsakos> hello has anybody used busblaster on a mac with openocd/
[03:43:36] <Tom_itx> never heard of busblaster and mac is a dirty word to me
[03:43:39] * GuShH pokes mitsakos
[03:44:05] <mitsakos> GuShH ?
[03:44:07] <Tom_itx> have you tried crosspak?
[03:44:37] <GuShH> http://dangerousprototypes.com/category/bus-blaster/
[03:45:41] <GuShH> mitsakos: sorry it must be the coffee typing, I think it wasn't such a good idea to get an espresso machine...
[04:39:11] <cart_man> what happens if 1 Atmega avr send 5V signal into another Atemgas pin that is also an OUTPUT of 5V?
[04:39:42] <specing> tias
[04:39:48] <twnqx> nothing
[04:40:07] <cart_man> even if theyre both HIGH? Nothing will blow out?
[04:40:10] <twnqx> a short circuit and possibly smoke should one decide to go the other way
[04:40:53] <Valen> provided the 5V's are the same it'd be ok
[04:41:03] <cart_man> the other way? both high?
[04:41:15] <Valen> I wouldn't reccomend it as its too easy for them to go the wrong way, put a resistor in the line
[04:41:23] <Valen> why do you want to do it anyway?
[04:41:48] <cart_man> Im making my own little communication system between 2 AVRs using 3 pins
[04:41:50] <twnqx> or don't output high actively ever
[04:41:59] <twnqx> activate pullups
[04:42:10] <twnqx> and turn to input for high, and output low only
[04:42:15] <twnqx> aka open drain communication
[04:42:48] <cart_man> I wont be using Active Highs for inputs no
[04:42:50] <Valen> rolling your own is a pain in the butt, I'd suggest using something off the shelf and supported by hardware if you can
[04:43:03] <Valen> IE usart, spi something like that
[04:43:11] <cart_man> Yea I know but I just want to do it for the little experience
[04:44:15] <cart_man> I have the whole thing figured out. It has handshaking and notifies if a bit is received etc
[04:44:36] <Valen> I strongly suggest putting a resistor in the line
[04:44:49] <cart_man> id probably place 220Ohm
[04:44:50] <Valen> drive one high and one low and make sure you don't blow anything up
[04:45:02] <Valen> given the loading even 10k wouldn't slow anything down
[04:45:29] <cart_man> wont I drop to manny V on the resistor for 10K?
[04:46:06] <twnqx> ... no
[04:46:27] <twnqx> where would you drop it? there's no divider with cmos
[04:46:40] <Valen> V = IR
[04:46:49] <Valen> what is the current flow?
[04:48:10] <cart_man> 0.05
[04:48:15] <cart_man> soz way more
[04:48:40] <cart_man> 5x10^4
[04:48:42] <cart_man> -4
[04:49:00] <Valen> what?
[04:49:20] <Valen> if you have a 5V output driving the input on the avr next to it
[04:49:28] <Valen> what is the current flowing into that input
[04:50:16] <twnqx> +inf in worst case :P
[04:50:33] <twnqx> though i don't know their mosfets Rdson
[04:52:48] <cart_man> Well usually I can put a clean 5V on the pin and it will react. I use to put 5V directly from my power supply to check if AVRs respond
[04:52:52] <cart_man> and it seems to work fine
[04:53:04] <cart_man> My problem is however
[04:53:37] <Valen> your missing the point
[04:53:53] <Valen> and twnqx if the pin is an input hits high impedance
[04:54:33] <Valen> I'm trying to get you to understand something really fundamental that you seem to be missing
[04:55:37] <cart_man> Both ICs will go into Passive mode where none of them send anything until I make a pin high and 1 of them goes active "Send out a really small high into the other" and then switches the ROLLS of his PiNs one of which will then become an Input. Just wondered what would happen if at any given time they might just both be HIGH.
[04:55:37] <cart_man> ok 1 sec
[04:55:38] <cart_man> Well thats what I dont get Valen
[04:56:05] <cart_man> causse
[04:56:07] <twnqx> the current you need to detect that high is µA in size...
[04:56:42] <cart_man> ah shit
[04:56:43] <twnqx> that's why you use 10k pullup/pulldown resistors and it still works
[04:56:51] <cart_man> I think im going to sound like a dumbass now but
[04:57:17] <cart_man> I really didnt know that it had to have uA range current to actually see the 5V
[04:57:22] <cart_man> thought it was waaay smaller
[04:57:29] <twnqx> ... smaller?
[04:57:32] <twnqx> as in nA?
[04:57:34] <cart_man> yea
[04:57:51] <cart_man> Like multimeters
[04:57:54] <cart_man> some of them
[04:58:05] <cart_man> anyway I dont know to much about the innards of AVRs YET!
[04:58:24] <twnqx> "they have cmos inputs" is basically all you need to know :S
[04:58:32] <twnqx> also, the schematic is in every data sheet
[04:58:45] <cart_man> "cmos input" opening up a whole can of worms imo
[04:59:07] <cart_man> Yip. Their Datasheets are really well documented
[05:00:01] <twnqx> the leakage of an input is specced as 1µA worst case in the data sheet i just looked at
[05:00:12] <twnqx> so yeah, maybe you should use nA scale
[05:00:40] <twnqx> but also, that tells you the input resistance
[05:00:59] <twnqx> now you can calculate how much the 10k resistor affects the voltage seen...
[05:01:21] <Valen> the parasitic capacatance of the PCB is going to be more ;->
[05:01:37] <Valen> BTW I would suggest 1K for your resistor
[05:01:47] <Valen> because why not ;->
[05:01:52] <cart_man> I thought so too...since its all I have atm heheh
[05:02:06] <twnqx> because 5mA worst case!
[05:02:16] <cart_man> I use to drain Active highs to ground with 220Ohm :s
[05:02:35] <Valen> that is perhaps a little more energetic than you need
[05:02:49] <twnqx> depends on the capacitance he has to overcome
[05:02:58] <twnqx> maybe he puts a 200µF capacitor with it
[05:03:00] <Valen> in the general case
[05:05:20] <cart_man> The Comms system that im making "If everything works well" will work at the speed of your clock and every bit will be accounted for with acknowledgement. Its just a stupid little project really to help me learn Atmels
[05:06:17] <twnqx> i am driving my LEDs with 330Ohm resistors
[05:06:20] <twnqx> seems too low :S
[05:06:37] <twnqx> i remember using 330 with 2.5V
[05:06:46] <twnqx> but now i have 5V i/O
[05:07:00] <twnqx> the yellow LED looks pretty orange :X
[05:07:55] <cart_man> I usually drive leds with 1K
[05:08:27] <cart_man> mostly because I have a million of them all over the place
[05:09:06] <cart_man> quickly restarting computer
[05:52:23] <h4x0riz3d> what can be causing verification fail when flashing hex via avrdude/usbasp?
[05:52:43] <h4x0riz3d> if fuses are set right, lock bits are cleared (0xFF)
[05:52:57] <jadew> dodgy data line
[05:53:01] <jadew> try increasing -B
[05:53:08] <jadew> do -B 100 for example
[05:53:56] <h4x0riz3d> we tried -B 20
[05:54:46] <jadew> you could also check with a scope and see if the data lines are ok
[05:54:52] <jadew> if they are, it could be a fault in avrdude
[05:55:09] <jadew> I found it to fail with different chips / programmers
[05:55:12] <h4x0riz3d> don't have scope
[05:55:21] <h4x0riz3d> hm
[05:57:00] <h4x0riz3d> the cpu i'm dealing with is on this small board (Vx) http://i.imgur.com/bMDsCUn.jpg
[05:57:10] <h4x0riz3d> it's an atmega2561
[05:57:40] <h4x0riz3d> the board has 40-pin headers (facing down) which are meant to fit on an atmega162 socket
[05:58:22] <h4x0riz3d> using these pins, i made an "adapter" to connect the thing to usbasp: http://i.imgur.com/pooq9pj.jpg
[05:58:38] <jadew> after you do a write, also a do a read into a file
[05:58:40] <h4x0riz3d> could it be that these cables are too long?
[05:58:47] <jadew> and compare the output with what you had as input
[05:58:59] <h4x0riz3d> i think avrdude does this automatically
[05:59:07] <h4x0riz3d> hence the verification fail
[05:59:21] <jadew> yeah, but that might give you an idea on what could be wrong
[06:00:10] <h4x0riz3d> well, i'm trying to flash a bootloader hex, which sits at the end of the flash memory
[06:00:28] <h4x0riz3d> so verification fails on the very first byte from the bootloader
[06:00:53] <h4x0riz3d> the memory before that is empty and verification is OK on it
[06:01:24] <jadew> what happens if you write something other than the bootloader?
[06:01:48] <h4x0riz3d> we also got a firmware hex
[06:02:00] <h4x0riz3d> which is supposed to sit in the beginning of the memory
[06:02:08] <h4x0riz3d> verification fail on the very first byte
[06:02:15] <h4x0riz3d> heh ;]
[06:02:21] <jadew> I see
[06:02:38] <jadew> so it basically fails for whatever you write in there
[06:02:46] <h4x0riz3d> the chip is responding, "writing" .. but the actual memory doesn't appear to be changed
[06:02:48] <Horologium> how long are the wires from the usbasp to the chip?
[06:03:34] <h4x0riz3d> from usbasp there is a flat cable (which comes with it) 20cm
[06:03:37] <jadew> it's possible usbasp doesn't support that chip
[06:03:40] <jadew> have you checked?
[06:03:45] <h4x0riz3d> and then i plug it to this "adapter" http://i.imgur.com/pooq9pj.jpg
[06:03:57] <Horologium> it is possible it is a usbasp with typical usbasp issues too.
[06:04:00] <h4x0riz3d> it says it does support it
[06:04:48] <h4x0riz3d> well, usbasp.de says it supports it, but my usbasp is made in china, i bought it off ebay
[06:05:18] <Horologium> I would try building an stk200 programmer and using that...but that requires a parallel port.
[06:06:59] <h4x0riz3d> when flashing the bootloader, the error is: mismatch at 0x1e000 0xff != 0x0d
[06:07:06] <h4x0riz3d> that's the same even with -B 100
[06:07:30] <jadew> do a read
[06:07:40] <h4x0riz3d> afaik 0x1e000 is the address of the first byte of the bootloader
[06:09:00] <Horologium> can you read the flash bits?
[06:09:06] <Horologium> flash bytes rather
[06:09:31] <h4x0riz3d> flash:r:dumb.hex ?
[06:09:37] <h4x0riz3d> * dump
[06:13:03] <Horologium> another thing, just for the fun of it, change the chip in the command line and see if it fails on chip signature.
[06:16:58] <cart_man> Guys if I set DDRC = 0b00000000;PORTC = 0b00000000; It means all of them are INPUTs and then in the while(1){} I could just say if(PORTC5 == 1){ //DoSomething }else {UNDO something} ?Why isnt mine working?
[06:17:06] <Horologium> we can also try terminal mode and see what happens with that.
[06:17:28] <cart_man> Obviously applying 5v to portC5
[06:17:41] <Horologium> try PIN rather than PORT
[06:17:54] <Horologium> PORTC is used for output.
[06:17:56] <Horologium> PIN is input.
[06:18:01] <cart_man> where though? in both instances?
[06:18:51] <cart_man> Ohhhh ok but with the Active high settings aswell ? meanign " PORTC = 0b0000000; " should be " PINC = 0b00000000 " ?
[06:18:52] <Horologium> http://iamsuhasm.wordpress.com/tutsproj/avr-gcc-tutorial/
[06:18:55] <Horologium> read
[06:19:07] <h4x0riz3d> Horologium https://gist.github.com/anonymous/73fb82ff731f5ffb44db
[06:19:22] <Horologium> cart_man, no..you use the PIN when READING THE PIN.
[06:19:32] <cart_man> Ohh ok thanks :)
[06:20:18] <Horologium> cart_man, read that tutorial page...it answers all those questions rather well.
[06:20:33] <Horologium> h4x0riz3d, and, what is this we are seeing?
[06:20:41] <Horologium> a dump of the entire memory?
[06:21:06] <h4x0riz3d> i think so
[06:22:35] <Horologium> ok....try programming the chip but change the chip in the command line...
[06:22:45] <Horologium> see if it fails on chip signature.
[06:23:29] <Horologium> if that fails,,,this is good.
[06:23:52] <Horologium> then go into terminal mode with avrdude....specify your programmer, your chip, then -t....nothing else.
[06:24:04] <Horologium> once in terminal mode type part
[06:24:20] <Horologium> and post what it shows.
[06:24:48] <Horologium> also
[06:24:50] <Horologium> dump lfuse
[06:24:52] <Horologium> dump efuse
[06:25:00] <Horologium> dump hfuse
[06:25:03] <Horologium> dump lock
[06:25:17] <Horologium> dump signature
[06:29:30] <h4x0riz3d> Horologium fail when using another chip model
[06:29:35] <Horologium> good.
[06:29:38] <Horologium> now try terminal mode.
[06:31:13] <h4x0riz3d> how do you enter this terminal mode exactly?
[06:31:27] * Horologium points UP
[06:31:34] <Horologium> then go into terminal mode with avrdude....specify your programmer, your chip, then -t....nothing else.
[06:31:59] <Horologium> http://www.nongnu.org/avrdude/user-manual/avrdude_9.html#Terminal-Mode-Examples
[06:32:35] <h4x0riz3d> oh god -t
[06:33:57] <Horologium> in terminal mode you can look at individual memory locations, look at and modify fuses, lock, and calibration bytes.
[06:34:04] <Horologium> and other dangerous things.
[06:35:56] <h4x0riz3d> avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e9802
[06:36:15] <Horologium> ok...what about if you dump the 3 fuses and lock?
[06:38:27] <h4x0riz3d> Horologium http://pastebin.com/HhD89mz0
[06:39:04] <Horologium> try the command erase
[06:39:08] <Horologium> to see if it erases the chip.
[06:39:15] <Horologium> after that quit terminal mode and try to program it.
[06:39:22] <Horologium> beyond that, I can't help as I'm off to work.
[06:39:23] <Horologium> laters.
[06:39:26] <h4x0riz3d> okay
[06:40:52] <h4x0riz3d> thanks
[07:07:24] <cart_man> Horologium: Sorry to bother you again
[07:09:14] <cart_man> Horologium: I got the input to work but it takes wayyy to long to respond when the switch is opened..Probably some cap that needs discharging ? so then I decided to make a voltage divider so the cap can drain much quicker. So I took a 10K from 5V to Pin and then from pin to ground a 1K and that should be fine though right? Problem is now it doesnt respond when the switch is closed. It just sees
[07:09:14] <cart_man> it as low. But its still 4.5V on the pin
[07:10:49] <cart_man> I replaced the 1K with a 220 ohm and still the same thing
[07:11:47] <cart_man> By the way I am using the bit_is_clear(PINC,5) to check PINS high and low...that wont be a problem?
[07:18:08] <cart_man> ?
[07:21:28] <vectory_> any idea weather PWM on LEDs works because either of persistance of vision, or because of switching characteristics of the diode?
[07:22:26] <theBear> pov mostly
[07:22:29] <cart_man> Id think persistance of vision
[07:22:48] <theBear> if the freq isn't too high you can hum and watch them modulate as your eyeballs vibrate
[07:22:49] <cart_man> 30 frames a sec VS ns pulses
[07:22:56] <cart_man> even uS mS
[07:23:06] <vectory_> theBear: freaky
[07:23:11] <vectory_> didnt see that yet
[07:23:13] <theBear> or if you go to a chemical brothers concert you can't help but see them going
[07:23:24] <h4x0riz3d> they actually blink, but if it's fast enough - the eye avarages it to a constantly lit color
[07:23:28] <theBear> same works with crt monitors, you get rolling like humbars
[07:26:39] <Tom_itx> or makes you go into convulsions
[07:27:16] <cart_man> yea them good oll convulsions
[07:27:40] <h4x0riz3d> i'm with a CRT monitor since 13 years, what convulsions?
[07:27:57] <cart_man> only some people get them though
[07:28:03] <cart_man> especially watching in the dark
[07:28:35] <h4x0riz3d> i've notice so many people didn't know how to set their monitor vertical scan rate
[07:28:43] <cart_man> flickering frames makes your iris relax and focus waaay to much without you noticing. Your brain thinks youre poisened
[07:28:46] <h4x0riz3d> so it stays at 50 or 60Hz and that's aweful ;]
[07:29:03] <theBear> some people are very sensitive to fluros which is 100/120, other people don't seem to notice
[07:29:19] <h4x0riz3d> theBear what?!
[07:29:25] <h4x0riz3d> why 100/120?
[07:29:36] <theBear> 'cos they turn off each half cycle
[07:29:37] <h4x0riz3d> they run on mains AC voltage, don't they?
[07:29:45] <theBear> yeah, which crosses 0 twice a cycle :)
[07:30:12] <theBear> 0, positive half, 0, negative half, repeat
[07:30:18] <h4x0riz3d> do they use a fullwave rectifier?
[07:30:46] <theBear> they don't need a rectifier, they aren't 'polarised'
[07:30:53] <h4x0riz3d> if they clip the negative portion, then they are only "lit" during the positive, thus 50/60 Hz
[07:30:57] <theBear> but they do extinguish below a certain voltage
[07:31:17] <theBear> and they can't clip anything , they're just electrodes in a gas
[07:31:42] <h4x0riz3d> okay, do they glow during the negative part of the wave?
[07:32:12] <theBear> of course
[07:32:26] <theBear> why wouldn't they ?
[07:32:43] <h4x0riz3d> because then it'd be effectively like 100/120 Hz
[07:32:52] <h4x0riz3d> but then, why am i able to see the flickering?
[07:33:00] <h4x0riz3d> i got a luminescent light at home
[07:34:32] <theBear> you're one of the sensitive people.... that whole 25fps thing is kinda misleading, it works with tv cos the phosphors are slow, and i think the idea with film is that the on time is MUCH longer than the off time
[07:35:11] <h4x0riz3d> i don't understand what you mean with the "whole 25fps thing" exactly
[07:35:37] <h4x0riz3d> but i know this and that about signal processing and moving pictures ;P~
[07:35:55] <h4x0riz3d> 25fps is a choppy animation still
[07:36:01] <h4x0riz3d> but it's not too bad
[07:36:41] <tzanger> use double types and get 29.95fps like God intended. :-)
[07:36:44] <h4x0riz3d> much more important is the shutter speed (if we're talking about video cameras)
[07:37:59] <theBear> the whole 25fps thing is that school and general 'wisdom' suggests that because tv/film are all 25fps and look 'normal' to us, that our eyes cannot see faster than that
[07:39:15] <cart_man> ^^
[07:39:34] <h4x0riz3d> i thought film was 24fps
[07:39:55] <h4x0riz3d> but that's not true, our eyes see it as choppy
[07:40:00] <h4x0riz3d> but acceptable
[07:41:43] <h4x0riz3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gCXvgkBNmU <- this is 25fps but due to the very fast shutter speed, it looks uber choppy
[07:42:23] <h4x0riz3d> lots of recent videos/movies use these new digital cameras where you can have fast shutter and it's very nasty on the eyes
[07:42:52] <h4x0riz3d> but they like it cuz it has less motion blur and thus easier to do post-processing like greenscreen or marker tracking
[07:43:41] <theBear> 24, 24.97, 25, 30 etc, the point is they're all much lower than what the eye can detect in the right circumstance
[07:44:08] <h4x0riz3d> older movies usually used ~50% shutter speed, which produces a nice motion blur
[07:44:33] <h4x0riz3d> nah, i wouldn't say 30Hz is undetectable by the eye
[07:44:48] <h4x0riz3d> especially if it's about blinking
[07:44:53] <jacekowski> theBear: it's 25fps with motion blur but 50Hz
[07:45:10] <jacekowski> theBear: and it's 50 half frames
[07:45:53] <theBear> yeah, i know that too, but my point wasn't about video, it was really just a side comment to help say why 100/120hz fluros have noticable flicker to some people
[07:46:12] <h4x0riz3d> a video at 25fps cannot blink with 25Hz, it can only blink at 12.5Hz
[07:47:05] <theBear> what if it's progressive scanned ? no interlacing
[07:47:35] <h4x0riz3d> the motion blur is what makes 24fps video look less choppy, but as i said, these new digital cameras tend to record at uber fast shutter speeds where you virtually have no such motion blur
[07:48:02] <h4x0riz3d> theBear ugh, that doesn't matter
[07:48:15] <theBear> i'm not arguing, just asking why
[07:48:15] <h4x0riz3d> 25fps means 25 "pictures" per second
[07:48:27] <theBear> if you got 25 pictures in a second, why can't you have 25 gaps ?
[07:48:44] <h4x0riz3d> because it's like samples in a sampled signal
[07:48:45] <theBear> oh, you mean the PICTURES can only make a 12.5hz blink
[07:48:48] <h4x0riz3d> nyquist theorem
[07:48:49] <theBear> got ya
[07:49:10] <h4x0riz3d> yes, one frame can be white, the other black
[07:49:15] <theBear> but if you have a blank between each picture, like with a film projector, you would have 25 pictures PLUS 25 moments of black
[07:49:19] <h4x0riz3d> thus one blink cycle is 25/2
[07:49:35] <h4x0riz3d> true
[07:49:40] <h4x0riz3d> that's what shutter speed is btw
[07:50:43] <h4x0riz3d> but you don't have this effect on a LCD monitor, or CRT monitor (with fast enough scan rate)
[07:58:16] <vectory_> seems i sparked a dicussion? :)
[07:58:34] <h4x0riz3d> ;P~
[08:04:06] <vectory_> im getting really confused with beeper/buzzer/piezo
[08:04:19] <vectory_> if i have a piezo on pwm, surely i can call it a beeper, eh?
[08:04:42] <vectory_> buzzer implies internal drive circuit tho, i assuem
[08:13:44] <kdehl_> Has anyone ever tried to interface a floppy drive with an AVR?
[08:14:01] <kdehl> In here, that is.
[08:14:10] <jacekowski> i did
[08:14:36] <jacekowski> then i found a spare SD card i could use
[08:16:55] <kdehl> Haha.
[08:17:20] <kdehl> Ignoring the fact that it's not worth it in any sensible way, how much work is it really?
[08:17:38] <kdehl> I doubt there would be any speed issues, really...
[08:18:03] <kdehl> I've looked very very little into IDE, but how much easier (if any) is a floppy interface?
[08:18:39] <theBear> vectory_, mmm, beeper isn't really a 'thing' ... buzzer implies you can connect dc and get a buzz out, piezo should just mean a piezo something with 2 wires, like a disc or a crystal
[08:19:03] <kdehl> And ignoring file table stuff, too. That is a completely separate issue.
[08:21:27] <RikusW> kdehl: you get a bitstream straight from the floppy
[08:21:35] <RikusW> you'll need to decode that
[08:21:56] <kdehl> Right. On the fly, naturally, I wouldn't have the space to do it afterwards.
[08:22:08] <kdehl> Or wait. Can't I just request individual sectors from the floppy?
[08:22:09] <RikusW> there is step drive on/off lines
[08:22:15] <kdehl> Those are 512 bytes each, iirc.
[08:22:22] <kdehl> Hm okay.
[08:22:39] <RikusW> you just turn on the motor and step to the right track
[08:22:52] <kdehl> Okay.
[08:22:58] <RikusW> and wait for the sector 0 pulse and start decoding...
[08:23:11] <kdehl> Hm. Sounds simple enough.
[08:23:17] <RikusW> thats what the hole was for in the old 5 1/4" disks
[08:23:43] <kdehl> What hole?
[08:23:45] <RikusW> not sure but you might need error corection stuff too
[08:23:54] <kdehl> I know there was a write protection hole on the side of those.
[08:24:03] <RikusW> beside the big drive hole there was a small one
[08:24:07] <kdehl> No, still is. I have a whole bunch of those.
[08:24:12] <kdehl> Oh.
[08:24:17] <RikusW> like 3mm
[08:24:22] <RikusW> and on the disk 1mm
[08:25:07] <kdehl> What was that hole?
[08:25:08] <RikusW> aI have no clue what the raw disk format is
[08:25:16] <theBear> you used to be able to buy little hole-punch kinda things to add holes to disks, if you were real lucky your disk had good enough magneticey bits on it to act as highdensity
[08:26:23] <RikusW> sector 0 marker
[08:26:59] <kdehl> Are we talking about 3.5" floppies now? I know those had a hole for being HD instead of DD, and another one for write protection.
[08:27:04] <kdehl> Oh.
[08:27:10] <kdehl> Hm.
[08:27:25] <theBear> we're mentioning them
[08:27:30] <vectory_> no a hole in the magnet film
[08:27:35] <vectory_> *no,
[08:27:44] <kdehl> Hm. Okay.
[08:27:49] <kdehl> I don't remember that.
[08:28:07] <kdehl> Ah.
[08:28:09] <kdehl> Right!
[08:28:17] <kdehl> Google is my friend. I see that hole now.
[08:28:43] <RikusW> 1.44MB had 2 holes in the metal center
[08:29:35] <h4x0riz3d> the offset to the bootloader address is set via the fuses, right?
[08:29:53] <RikusW> yes
[08:29:56] <h4x0riz3d> k
[08:30:03] <RikusW> BOOTSZ
[08:30:07] <RikusW> and BOOTRST
[09:12:55] <twnqx> BOOZE > BOOTSZ
[09:13:36] <tzanger> twnqx: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nni0rTLg5B8
[09:25:34] <twnqx> heh
[10:00:52] <cart_man> Hey guys...can an MCU change the orientation of its PINS while running in the forever while()? that wont be a problem right?
[10:01:11] <tzanger> what?
[10:01:23] <tzanger> "change the orientation of its pins" ?
[10:01:31] <cart_man> Input or Outpur
[10:01:33] <cart_man> output`
[10:01:34] <tzanger> Do you mean like roll over, sit?
[10:01:38] <Tom_itx> they can change from input to output yes
[10:02:03] <cart_man> k thanks
[10:02:11] <tzanger> cart_man: I have an application that changes the function of the pin from input to output to analog input to interrupt-on-change in its main loop
[10:02:19] <tzanger> you can make them do anything really
[10:04:24] <cart_man> Sweet I thought at first that they are set and will stay that way :(
[10:05:03] <cart_man> RikusW: where are you from?
[10:05:15] <RikusW> South Africa
[10:05:23] <cart_man> RikusW: Standerton?
[10:05:27] <RikusW> no
[10:05:36] <RikusW> close
[10:05:41] <RikusW> Warden is my hometown
[10:05:56] <RikusW> currently in Bloemfontein
[10:06:29] <RikusW> what makes you think its Standerton ?
[10:06:52] <cart_man> RikusW: Guy named Rikus White who lives in standerton and uses MTN to connect :s
[10:07:07] <RikusW> ah
[10:07:16] <RikusW> cart_man: where are you from ?
[10:07:23] <cart_man> RikusW: Pretoria
[10:08:16] <cart_man> RikusW: Thought it would be really crazy if I saw him on an international channel talking abou things he really knows nothing about...haha anyway ...
[10:09:13] <cart_man> Anybody know a Channel for the National Instruments simulator program?
[10:10:54] <RikusW1> zlog
[10:11:18] <RikusW1> my adsl connection is going nuts :S dropping all the time...
[10:11:35] <cart_man> Mines been like that for 3 weeks or so
[10:11:56] <RikusW1> started last week
[10:12:37] <RikusW> I might be in Pretoria in a few months
[10:13:19] <RikusW> telkom technician said there was noise on the line when checked from their side
[10:13:41] <RikusW> however when he came to test it from here couldn't find anything wrong....
[10:14:06] <theBear> old fashioned non-smart telephones are good for makeshift linesman handsets to test that kinda thing
[10:14:35] <RikusW> cart_man: so far you're the 4th South African on this channel that I know of
[10:15:05] <twnqx> there must be a nest somewhere!
[10:15:08] <cart_man> RikusW: Really? you come here allot? I know 1 person other then myself that code AVRs
[10:15:12] <Casper> RikusW: you're wrong, it's the same guy under 4 different nicks! :D
[10:15:16] <theBear> hehe
[10:15:44] <twnqx> Oo
[10:15:54] <twnqx> he's here all the time, cart_man... all.the.time.
[10:16:13] <theBear> damn, you guys really got some crappy connections between yer
[10:16:37] <cart_man> WHoaaaahh! Yea indeed. Happens only in SA
[10:16:53] <twnqx> *ZA
[10:17:03] <twnqx> .sa is saudi arabia :X and it's worse there
[10:17:06] <RikusW> cart_man: I've been in this channel for > 2 years iirc
[10:17:17] <cart_man> Idd ZA
[10:17:24] <twnqx> Zouth Africa :D
[10:17:26] <RikusW> line was down again...
[10:17:28] <theBear> heh
[10:17:32] <cart_man> nice...im about to stick to this channel really. Got a job doing AVRs
[10:17:52] <RikusW> cart_man: https://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/
[10:18:01] <twnqx> i'm still looking for someone helping me make a transformer :X any ideas where to find people with the knowledge?
[10:18:13] <theBear> what kinda transformer ?
[10:18:26] <twnqx> SMPS
[10:19:02] * RikusW considers using GPRS again for IRC only....
[10:19:08] <theBear> hmm.... in some ways they're easy.. which bits you having trouble with ? and what you going for, just main transformer from ~300vdc -> output voltage ?
[10:19:21] <cart_man> SwitchMode?
[10:19:24] <twnqx> power factor compensation stage first
[10:19:39] <cart_man> Oh
[10:19:40] <twnqx> so ca. 380VDC source
[10:19:41] <theBear> SwitchModePowerSupply
[10:20:01] <RikusW> twnqx: I made a switchmode transformer
[10:20:17] <theBear> power factor is just a big inductor, you wanna have enough core/windings to fill in as much of the gap between charge peaks as possible
[10:20:17] <RikusW> for stepping 12Vdc to 350Vdc
[10:20:19] <twnqx> output to ~60V/5A, +-15V/1A, 5V/3A secondary
[10:20:20] <cart_man> RikusW: Where do you solder those little chips?
[10:20:32] <theBear> and of course thick enough wire to pass the current
[10:20:40] <RikusW> at home using a Magnum iron + EW-103 tip
[10:20:48] <twnqx> regulated to the 15V source
[10:20:56] <twnqx> (primary side regulated to secondary side voltage)
[10:21:24] <RikusW> cart_man: I have made 120 of those
[10:21:59] <Tom_itx> sold?
[10:22:11] <cart_man> RikusW: I have 3Phase Brushless Sensorless DC motor drivers, and they are too small for me to solder. Its chipscale and its about 5mm in length with 10 pins on it. Just insane
[10:22:12] <RikusW> a few
[10:22:14] <twnqx> theBear: active power factor compensation
[10:22:46] <RikusW> cart_man: pin pitch ?
[10:23:01] <cart_man> Cant find anyone who can solder them also they dont have Pins like that their dont extrude from the body
[10:23:17] <cart_man> Their pins*
[10:23:21] <RikusW> cart_man: I've soldered a SIM900 with ease
[10:23:29] <RikusW> GPRS module
[10:23:39] <theBear> twnqx, oh, active, still just an inductor, but you switch it like a boost converter
[10:23:43] <twnqx> yes
[10:23:44] <RikusW> even the 0.8mm tqfp's are easy
[10:23:52] <twnqx> boost regulator in the first stage
[10:23:58] <cart_man> Well I salute you cause WTHell?
[10:23:59] <RikusW> cart_man: whats the part number of thoses motors ?
[10:24:06] <cart_man> Give me 1 sec
[10:24:08] <twnqx> 0.8mm IS easy
[10:24:20] <twnqx> 0.5/0.4 is where it starts to get tricky
[10:24:35] <RikusW> 0.4 is tricy
[10:24:39] <RikusW> *tricky
[10:24:52] <theBear> in that case you size the inductor vs the switching speed vs the power, you wanna switch fast enough it never saturates, and it wants to store enough power each time that it can 'fill in the gap' while recharging
[10:24:56] * RikusW blames the adsl line for dropping the k :-P
[10:25:06] <twnqx> theBear: that's what the controller chips are for
[10:25:42] <theBear> controller chips only adjust in relation to feedback, they can't know when the inductor will saturate or how big it is
[10:25:53] <theBear> that's what the design maths are for
[10:25:56] <twnqx> i'm not really worried about the boost inductor, even if the controllers want a secondary winding for zero crossing circuitry
[10:26:26] <RikusW> cart_man: netram.co.za got some nice but expensive toys, just discovered them yesterday
[10:27:22] <cart_man> RikusW: Where did you find that GPRS and for how much?
[10:27:34] <twnqx> i just dissected a PC PSU transformer and it kinda scared me
[10:27:43] <cart_man> RikusW: Yea i know about Netram but i build things on my own for experience
[10:27:43] <twnqx> admittedly it was meant for 12V/30+A
[10:28:07] <RikusW> www.otto.co.za R175 (or 165?)
[10:28:42] <cart_man> RikusW: Ghez RScomponents ask 400 for elCheapo but it has seriel integrated
[10:28:43] <RikusW> the SIM900 can load custom firmware onto it as well
[10:29:04] <cart_man> RikusW: the Micrchip I was talking about = MTD6501
[10:29:41] <cart_man> But it seems they have seen their erros and added extruding pins :) yay ..after I spend R70 on 5 of them and waited 2 weeks
[10:29:50] <cart_man> Now that they look like that Ill just buy them
[10:29:57] <cart_man> must be way easier to solder
[10:30:21] <RikusW> which package do you have SOIC ?
[10:30:22] <cart_man> RikusW: Those 300kv motors from Netram are the ones im planning on driving with that MTD6501 IC
[10:30:24] <RikusW> 1.27mm ?
[10:30:47] <cart_man> I had the really really small one...cant find the exact code now atm
[10:30:56] <cart_man> What is SOIC btw?
[10:31:16] <RikusW> SOIC is the package type
[10:31:30] <RikusW> like DIP, the ones that fit in breadboard
[10:32:12] <RikusW> cart_man: how many mm from pin1 to 4 ?
[10:32:56] <RikusW> do have a look at 4.0 PACKAGING INFORMATION in the datasheet
[10:33:35] <cart_man> RikusW: ahm if I remember correctly ...
[10:33:49] <cart_man> RikusW: wait ill search for them theyre somewhere in my room
[10:33:55] <RikusW> 3.75 ?
[10:35:08] <RikusW> how many pins 8 or 10 ?
[10:35:12] <cart_man> 10
[10:35:19] <RikusW> 10 pin one is MSOP and 0.5mm
[10:35:33] <RikusW> you'll need a PCB to solder that one
[10:35:58] <RikusW> where did you buy it ? RS maybe ?
[10:36:16] <cart_man> found it
[10:36:17] <cart_man> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22281A.pdf
[10:36:24] <cart_man> Yea from RS components
[10:36:27] <twnqx> bah, humbug. you can always solder straight on the pins!
[10:36:58] <cart_man> but my solder skllls are really just not great
[10:37:01] <RikusW> so you have 6505 no 6501 ?
[10:37:05] <RikusW> RS number ?
[10:37:18] <cart_man> 761-7201
[10:37:52] <theBear> heh... rs started about 5 mins drive from here
[10:37:57] <theBear> way waaaay back
[10:38:28] <cart_man> RikusW: Btw does that sim900 Communicate Via Seriel?
[10:38:33] <RikusW> yes
[10:38:38] <cart_man> Theyre insanely huge now
[10:38:58] <cart_man> I remember people driving 2 hours just to get to Communica back in the day
[10:39:03] <RikusW> inside you have 1MB of ram for your app it seems
[10:39:24] <RikusW> I by from Mantech
[10:39:27] <theBear> mmm, they seem to keep up with farnells in most countries and cattledog sizer
[10:39:28] <RikusW> and more recently RS
[10:39:45] <RikusW> Have bought some PICs from Communica loong ago
[10:40:04] <theBear> apparently it was a govt contract for flush speaker mount/grills that got them started
[10:40:26] <theBear> you know, like you see in the ceiling at big shopping centers/buildings
[10:40:51] <RikusW> cart_man: if you want to prototype with that I'd suggest doing it deadbug style
[10:40:58] <cart_man> Where are you from Bear?
[10:41:03] <theBear> west of 'stralia
[10:41:17] <cart_man> deadbug style?
[10:41:21] <theBear> even been back here for a few years
[10:41:23] <RikusW> upside down
[10:41:30] <cart_man> Ohh yea I see
[10:41:31] <cart_man> lol deadbug
[10:41:34] <RikusW> strip some multicore wire and tin a few strands
[10:41:43] <RikusW> also tin all the pads on the ic
[10:41:48] <cart_man> Well I want to try and make my Raspberry pi get GPRS feeds
[10:41:52] <RikusW> and I do hope you have some liquid flux
[10:41:59] <theBear> or if you got some of that ridiculously skinny 'factory pcb modification' wire that'll do
[10:42:07] <cart_man> :( no expensive stuff
[10:42:23] <RikusW> then put the wire on the pad and heat the wire with an iron
[10:42:27] <cart_man> Im a broke student
[10:42:33] <RikusW> tweezers will help a lot
[10:43:00] <Tom_itx> yeah and they're cheap
[10:43:21] <RikusW> I've done an AAT3681 lipo charger that way
[10:44:09] <RikusW> cart_man: liquid flux agent at Mantech is R50 for 250ml
[10:44:44] <cart_man> ghez that is not bad at all !
[10:44:48] <RikusW> http://www.mantech.co.za/Stock.aspx?Query=flux+agentand
[10:45:21] <RikusW> I bough my 250ml bottle 2 years ago, its still half
[10:45:31] <RikusW> that is after soldering 100 U2S boards
[10:45:35] <RikusW> and some more
[10:45:48] <cart_man> dam ok
[10:45:49] <theBear> hmm, i suppose flux lasts a lot longer than solder paste ?
[10:46:13] <cart_man> No Idea first time I will be using it really
[10:46:23] <RikusW> theBear: yep
[10:46:26] <theBear> heh, i was asking the guy that had some 2 y.old :)
[10:46:40] <theBear> cool, makes me less worried about using mine quickly
[10:46:58] <RikusW> cart_man: I use a 5cc syringe and long needle to apply the flux
[10:47:06] <cart_man> I have this suringe with Silver stuff in it that my grandad gave me...NO idea what it does, Ive tried to Solder it and it didnt conduct unless there was almost none of it left because it vaporized
[10:47:22] <RikusW> solder paste ?
[10:47:42] <RikusW> cart_man: magnumproducts.co.za
[10:47:51] <RikusW> a lot cheaper than weller
[10:47:53] <theBear> unlikely for a granddad to have solderpaste... maybe it's tip conditioner ?
[10:48:10] <cart_man> could be...found it odd cause i kept my solder iron there for quite some time and it seemed to just reduce into nothing...
[10:48:12] <cart_man> lol
[10:48:18] <theBear> tho that'd be odd in a syringe
[10:48:19] <RikusW> I've got some TT-95 tip cleaner
[10:48:30] <theBear> usually it comes in little tiny tins
[10:48:35] <cart_man> Nah my Grandad is into things like this...he taught himself Assebler for PIC16F
[10:48:42] <theBear> heh, nice
[10:48:58] <cart_man> Assembler `
[10:49:03] <cart_man> lol Assebler
[10:49:24] <theBear> paste is a bit weird with a soldering iron, hitting it with a hot hairdryer or paintstripper gun would give a better idea, it should kinda turn into a little ball of solder and probably a bunch of runny flux stuff
[10:49:54] <cart_man> hmmm..Would a hairdryer really work?
[10:49:58] <cart_man> cause that I can try
[10:50:06] <theBear> if its low temp paste and/or a very hot hairdryer
[10:50:39] <theBear> even the hottest paste should do its thing once you get it up to a little over 200c
[10:51:01] <cart_man> what about an oven?
[10:51:02] <theBear> not really sure how hot a hairdryer is up close, but they usually got glowing elements which means quite a few hundred degrees at the element
[10:51:11] <theBear> choking the airflow would up the temp too
[10:51:25] <theBear> an oven will do it, but it's not real healthy to get those fumes in yer oven
[10:51:35] <cart_man> OH yea of course
[10:51:39] <cart_man> :/
[10:51:55] <theBear> at the same time, i'm likely to be experimenting with reflow in my oven some day soon
[10:52:03] <RikusW> I've got a Ryobi CPS 2000K heatgun
[10:52:12] <RikusW> was R350
[10:52:26] <theBear> what are R's ?
[10:52:29] <RikusW> ZAR
[10:52:44] <theBear> hmm, how do they compare to a currency i might know ?
[10:52:51] <cart_man> Thats not to expensive I suppose but I can buy something like that roughly every second month
[10:52:55] <RikusW> 1 Australian Dollar equals9.22 South African Rand
[10:53:06] <theBear> hmmm, cool
[10:53:10] <RikusW> theBear: google -> aud to zar
[10:53:17] <theBear> that's close enough
[10:53:55] <RikusW> /10 for approximation
[10:54:08] <theBear> yerp :) 10% is good enough for my purposes
[10:54:20] <cart_man> RikusW: what did you use the Sim900 for btw?
[10:55:08] <RikusW> currently busy developing sw for it
[10:55:20] <RikusW> I did use it for an internet connection for a while too
[10:55:39] <RikusW> It will be used with a PA6H GPS for tracking
[10:55:40] <cart_man> RikusW: sounds nice
[10:56:15] <cart_man> RikusW: Diving into the world of embedded Dev myself when I get out of College.
[10:56:33] <RikusW> What are you studying now ?
[10:56:44] <twnqx> theBear: i wonder if i can get solder paste to melt with my IR preheater :P
[10:57:06] <cart_man> RikusW: Computer Eng --> roughly Electronig Eng really. Just allot more programming and Digital Signal Processing etc..
[10:57:15] <RikusW> ah
[10:57:17] <cart_man> Electronic`
[10:57:45] <RikusW> I did industrial electronics and logic systems to N4
[10:59:57] <cart_man> RikusW: Nice ! Really wish I could finish though
[11:00:13] <RikusW> cart_man: id you do solder the MTD6505 deadbug style make sure you solder some thick wire to the center pad too
[11:00:18] <cart_man> RikusW: keeping me from doing things with MCUs and learning about FPGA's
[11:00:18] <RikusW> its the heatsink
[11:00:39] <RikusW> FPGA's are on my todo list too
[11:00:59] <RikusW> seems you get very expensive ones like > $100,000
[11:01:03] <RikusW> for one chip
[11:01:24] <cart_man> RikusW: Do you know a place that can solder those ICs on their bellies though? Pref near pretoria.
[11:01:43] <cart_man> RikusW: Yea well the cheapest Development board is 3000 rand O.o
[11:01:46] <RikusW> you'll need to make a pcb to do that
[11:01:55] <RikusW> cart_man: my U2S board is R200
[11:02:03] <RikusW> with mega32u2
[11:02:27] <cart_man> Wait...Your boards? FPGA?
[11:02:38] <cart_man> the one you linked me?
[11:02:42] <RikusW> ATmega32u2 on my boards, yes
[11:03:08] <RikusW> cart_man: a single layer pcb at bosco.co.za is not that expensive
[11:03:11] <cart_man> I saw atmega did not know its an FPGA O.o
[11:03:18] <RikusW> its an AVR
[11:04:31] <RikusW> look at the price and cry -> http://za.rs-online.com/web/p/fpgas/0293984/ ZAR81945.91
[11:05:10] <cart_man> Ohh trust me I know !
[11:07:17] <RikusW> cart_man: Posmo PCB -> 012 8045043 MORELETA STREET, SILVERTON Pretoria (Gauteng)
[11:08:06] <RikusW> http://www.yellowpages.co.za/DetailsPage/SA_3227785_1_220/SA_3227785_1_220
[11:09:17] <RikusW> I've used Bosco before
[11:12:12] <cart_man> Ghez
[11:12:18] <RikusW> http://www.yellowpages.co.za/DetailsPage/SA_3227785_1_220/SA_3227785_1_220
[11:12:26] <RikusW> http://www.approvedlocal.co.za/posmo-electronics-cc-93937.html
[11:12:33] <RikusW> cart_man: Posmo PCB
[11:12:41] <RikusW> last one got google maps link
[11:14:20] <cart_man> ahh sweet thanks :)
[11:14:36] <RikusW> http://www.bosco.co.za/contact.asp
[11:14:43] <RikusW> another one
[11:15:20] <RikusW> if you use single layer no soldermask or silkscreen it should be a lot cheaper
[11:16:30] <RikusW> last time I checked setup fees for that was R140
[11:16:59] <RikusW> cart_man: or you could try hackvana, 5x5cm boards are around $19
[11:17:13] <RikusW> then its double sided with green soldermask
[11:19:20] <cart_man> I would probably ne using the single side no doubt. I havent designed anything on that level yet anyway
[11:22:36] <cart_man> also Rikes Ive seen some Schmartboards that could work aswell
[11:22:44] <cart_man> dont know if you know those boards
[11:24:04] <RikusW> I've seen some
[11:40:31] <hackvana> Howdy
[11:40:36] <hackvana> RikusW: How's things?
[11:41:43] <RikusW> hi hackvana
[11:41:53] <RikusW> was busy all day ordering stuff
[11:42:23] <RikusW> like that 0.5W solar panel from seeed, there is a local company selling it
[11:42:26] <hackvana> You have all the fun
[11:42:30] <RikusW> yep
[11:42:32] <hackvana> How's the markup?
[11:42:39] <RikusW> about double
[11:42:44] <hackvana> Ouch
[11:42:52] <RikusW> but then there is shipping and 14% VAT too
[11:42:55] <hackvana> Still, turnaround should be shorter
[11:43:00] <RikusW> $2 at seeed
[11:43:19] <RikusW> ZAR40 here $4.3
[11:43:43] <RikusW> thats why I took the local one, don't want to wait for HK post
[11:44:22] <RikusW> hackvana: so no backlog I hope ?
[11:45:18] <hackvana> No backlog, sameday service.
[11:45:27] <hackvana> Mog ordered on May 10, he got his boards on May 15.
[11:45:32] <RikusW> nice
[11:47:24] * RikusW saw and FPGA for nearly $10k
[11:47:38] <RikusW> Altera EP1S80F1020I7N
[11:48:28] <cart_man> Ghe thanks Altera...Crushing my dreams etc
[11:49:21] <RikusW> there are cheaper ones
[11:49:27] <cart_man> RikusW: what GPS IC would you recomend for a newbie?
[11:49:46] <RikusW> have a look at PA6H on otto.co.za
[11:49:55] <RikusW> R165 iirc
[11:50:32] <cart_man> RikusW: yea I have 3000 rand ones in my garage...theyre still in their packaging and also have those impossible pins, So close and yet so far I gues
[11:50:34] <RikusW> its very simple to use, give it 3v3 and connect to an AVR uart
[11:51:10] <RikusW> the PA6H does need a pcb
[11:51:52] <RikusW> though I got away with a blank pcb and some plastic to seperate it from the pcb
[11:52:07] <RikusW> just soldered the ground pins to the pcb for a good ground plane
[11:52:34] <cart_man> Ok cool will do
[11:53:13] <RikusW> I've used SPX5205 as 3v3 regulator
[11:53:18] <RikusW> got it at RS
[11:53:43] <cart_man> There a USB version O.o?
[11:53:53] <cart_man> Just read something about it
[11:54:07] <cart_man> Ill probably go with ap1501-33 since I know it pretty well
[11:54:09] <RikusW> the GMS version look on otto
[11:54:19] <cart_man> Ohhh I see
[11:56:18] <RikusW> PCB I made for PA6H http://imagebin.org/257765
[11:57:56] <RikusW> GPRS board http://imagebin.org/257766
[11:58:57] <RikusW> The GPS I soldered http://imagebin.org/257767
[11:59:49] <RikusW> PA6H module http://imagebin.org/257768
[12:00:36] <cart_man> So could I use the PA6H as a standalone model to simply retreive Co-Ordinates?
[12:00:44] <RikusW> SIM900 http://imagebin.org/257769
[12:00:48] <RikusW> yes
[12:01:09] <RikusW> the one I made with plain pcb works quite well
[12:01:16] <cart_man> Because that kind of what I am going for..also the red string is the Antenna right?
[12:01:32] <RikusW> http://imagebin.org/257767
[12:01:42] <RikusW> the antenna is the brown block on top
[12:02:04] <RikusW> the red trace is the antenna yes
[12:03:54] <RikusW> this one http://microchip.ua/simcom/SIM900x/AppNotes/AN_SIM900_SIMCom_Monopole%20PCB%20Antenna.pdf
[12:04:15] <RikusW> red is the top layer, blue the bottom
[12:07:43] <RikusW> cart_man: http://imagebin.org/257770 hackvana made these for me
[12:08:37] <RikusW> and I assembled them http://imagebin.org/257771
[12:09:33] <cart_man> Hackavana from SA?
[12:09:40] <RikusW> AU
[12:09:51] <RikusW> lives in China now to make us pcbs
[12:09:52] <cart_man> So how much did it cost you to send it and all?
[12:10:22] <RikusW> those were a bit expensive, DHL was $60 and $100 for all 20 boards
[12:10:35] <RikusW> but you can get by with $19 + $3 for tracking
[12:11:03] <RikusW> he must be in shock to leave to quickly :-P
[12:11:26] <cart_man> Sorry I got DCed
[12:11:30] <RikusW> but you can get by with $19 + $3 for tracking
[12:11:36] <RikusW> those were a bit expensive, DHL was $60 and $100 for all 20 boards
[12:11:48] <cart_man> did you use all yours?
[12:11:56] <RikusW> with only $3 for tracking it will take a while to get here
[12:12:09] <RikusW> cart_man: I'm doing it for a company which paid for it
[12:12:15] <cart_man> Ohh ok I see
[12:12:39] <RikusW> but 5x5 cm is $19 + $3 = $22 which is fairly cheap
[12:12:55] <cart_man> The PCB you linked earlier..thats the same board?
[12:12:56] <RikusW> much cheaper than the bosco setup fees for double sided
[12:13:02] <RikusW> yes
[12:13:28] <RikusW> the red/blue one was still on the PC being designed
[12:13:31] <cart_man> Sorry I missed something because of Disconnect...what did you say about the 19$ and 3$ tracking?
[12:13:54] <RikusW> that is for a 5x5cm board from hackvana
[12:14:06] <cart_man> Ohhh I see
[12:14:09] <cart_man> ok now it makes sense
[12:14:31] <RikusW> double sided and with silkscreen (white letters)
[12:14:49] <cart_man> Ahh nice ! You wouldnt mind me using it ?
[12:14:55] <RikusW> will cost you R700 or so for setup at bosco
[12:15:05] <cart_man> Ouch!
[12:15:13] <cart_man> whow thats expensive
[12:15:25] <cart_man> 3times the IC cost
[12:15:33] <RikusW> I did my U2S boards at bosco, was R500 setup fee without silk
[12:16:11] <RikusW> cart_man: you could propbably use my boards as a reference for your design
[12:16:32] <kdehl> RikusW: Have you used a FDC9266 floppy controller?
[12:16:34] <RikusW> I mostly got everything out of the datasheets
[12:16:41] <RikusW> kdehl: no
[12:16:57] <kdehl> So you bitbanged everything yourself?
[12:17:05] <RikusW> cart_man: I forgot some stuff, like the cap on SIM_VCC etc...
[12:17:29] <kdehl> I read some unreliable forum post somewhere that the signal from the floppy is analog, and you need a controller in between.
[12:17:30] <RikusW> kdehl: not tried to connect to a floppy yet, but I've read a bit on the specs
[12:17:35] <kdehl> Ah.
[12:18:08] <kdehl> jacekowski: You were the one who actually tried! Heh. Have you used a FDC9266?
[12:18:14] <RikusW> I'm not entirely sure about the data coming from the read heads, but its a bitstream for sure
[12:18:32] <RikusW> maybe still mfm or something
[12:18:33] <kdehl> Yeah, okay.
[12:20:28] <RikusW> cart_man: seen loot.co.za ?
[12:20:49] <cart_man> RikusW: well dont check it often..almost never, should I?
[12:21:12] <RikusW> I've bought a few books from there, and my 2.5" 1TB drive too
[12:21:27] <RikusW> seems their time estimates are quite good
[12:21:48] <hackvana> Bedtime for me...
[12:22:13] <cart_man> Ohh yea ok welll sure I will someday of course. I have used them for a Naga mouse
[12:22:19] <cart_man> while ago
[12:22:34] <cart_man> cheers hack
[12:22:51] <RikusW> bye
[12:23:45] <RikusW> cart_man: I did use AppCAD to calculate trace impedance
[12:25:39] <cart_man> yea I suppose that could become a problem when working with small signals like that?
[12:26:09] <cart_man> 3.3v?
[12:26:26] <RikusW> for the RF trace
[12:26:33] <RikusW> it MUST be 50Ohm
[13:01:23] <Qantouri1c> Most AVR's don't have a DAC ?
[13:01:34] <Qantouri1c> So I need to do pulse-with modulation ?
[13:02:45] <Qantouri1c> or a seperate DAC :)
[13:03:20] <OndraSter__> xmega
[13:03:27] <OndraSter__> AVR core
[13:03:31] <OndraSter__> with awesome peripherals
[13:03:34] <OndraSter__> including DAC :)
[13:03:40] <OndraSter__> (A series)
[13:04:42] <tzanger> PWM works wonders as you mentioned
[13:04:55] <tzanger> you could also do a simple R2R with 4-8 I/O lines and an op-amp
[13:13:01] <Qantouri1c> tzanger: it's for a function generator, parrelel DAC would be better then :)
[13:13:23] <Qantouri1c> "ATmega48A"
[13:13:27] <tzanger> heh
[13:13:27] <tzanger> yes
[13:13:30] <Qantouri1c> the word "DAC" is not in that manuel ...
[13:13:50] <tzanger> it's funny... in over 20 years of electronics design I have only needed a function generator maybe a half dozen times
[13:13:56] <Qantouri1c> hehe :)
[13:14:14] <Qantouri1c> tzanger: that's why i'm buidling one instead of buying one
[13:14:17] <tzanger> for doing some testing/playing around trying to figure out some analog stuff they're handy as hell
[13:14:20] <Qantouri1c> + it will learn how to program and use a avr
[13:14:30] <Qantouri1c> tzanger: that's why I want one :)
[13:14:44] <Qantouri1c> still need to figure out a scope :)
[13:15:02] <twnqx> 2gsps adc, done?
[13:16:10] <Qantouri1c> twnqx: where would I see the results ? :)
[13:16:30] <Qantouri1c> send them over UART ?
[13:24:32] <twnqx> nah, udb 3.0
[13:24:36] <twnqx> usb*
[13:24:47] <Qantouri1c> and then you need software :)
[13:25:46] <Qantouri1c> function generotor: ok ... scope ... less ok unless you want to make it a project
[13:25:50] <tzanger> the nice thing about using an AVR as the heart is you can easily create an AWG out of it, although you'll ulimtately be limited by the AVR's execution speed
[13:26:15] <Qantouri1c> I don't know what a AWG is
[13:26:24] <twnqx> arbitrary waveform generator
[13:26:37] <twnqx> sample playback.
[13:26:51] <Qantouri1c> aaa yes
[13:26:55] <tzanger> actually that might be fun to build out of an STM32, you've got DMA there
[13:26:59] <Qantouri1c> that's what i'll be using for a function generator
[13:27:02] <tzanger> or a Cypress FX3
[13:27:16] <tzanger> you've got 320MB/sec there... hmm
[13:27:33] <twnqx> or just an fpga :>
[13:27:48] <Qantouri1c> Well I have no programmers ?
[13:28:06] <Qantouri1c> well I don't have avr yet either so :p
[13:28:25] <cart_man> Guys im using a 20Mhz clock on 1 Atmega so now I want to use 2 atmegas but only 1 Crystal. I just extend the OSC2 to the OSC1 of the secondary IC right?
[13:30:14] <Qantouri1c> cart_man: if i look a the datasheets: no
[13:30:25] <Qantouri1c> wait wrong schematic :)
[13:31:02] <Qantouri1c> index
[13:31:07] <Qantouri1c> http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/2154
[13:31:27] <Qantouri1c> looking that that image it might work
[13:32:04] <tzanger> twnqx: nah, FPGA means I still need a usb interface IC. drop the middle man. :)
[13:32:10] <Qantouri1c> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=23869
[13:33:39] <twnqx> tzanger: well yes, 320MB/s is fast enough...
[13:33:58] <twnqx> the question is whether you can generate data at that speed
[13:48:46] <Qantouri1c> 16MHZ / 200 cycles per cycli (assuming) -> 800Khz ... sounds nice :)
[13:56:48] <tzanger> twnqx: yes, which is why you use the FX3 RAM to store the waveform data (up to 512kB, although realistically maybe only 3/4 of that) and stream new waveform data over USB3. That way it's not the hardware that's ever the choke point, it's either shit windows drivers, software or shitty USB3 root ports. :-)
[13:58:17] <Qantouri1c> standard DIP is 5mm appart correct ?
[14:00:35] <turutk> hi, i am a beginner to avrs and i have a basic question
[14:00:52] <turutk> i am using an atmega328 and trying to set up pwm
[14:01:10] <turutk> but pwm pins are the same pins that my usbtiny uses
[14:01:31] <turutk> how do i program the chip if i use pwm
[14:07:38] <tzanger> DIP is 0.100" which is 2.54mm IIRC
[14:20:03] <Qantouri1c> tzanger: yes indeed
[14:20:31] <Qantouri1c> Are the bytes of AVR LSB-MSB or MSB-LSB ?
[14:21:47] <Qantouri1c> turutk: you made me think about PWM now :)
[14:22:14] <turutk> after messing around
[14:22:30] <turutk> i found out that OCR2A and MOSI is the same pin
[14:22:51] <turutk> if i unplug the wire that goes to a mosfet
[14:22:56] <turutk> then i can program as usual
[14:23:07] <turutk> if i plug in that wire i get initialization failed error
[14:23:49] <Qantouri1c> IIRC only special programmers can reprogram it then ? (Never had one before, never used AVR)
[14:24:11] <abcminiuser_> BAHAHAHA
[14:24:22] <abcminiuser_> Adafruit found the Benny Hill thread
[14:24:52] <Qantouri1c> O dear ... how slow is sin() on AVR ?
[14:24:58] <jacekowski> very
[14:25:00] <twnqx> very.
[14:25:05] <Qantouri1c> howmany cycles ?
[14:25:11] <jacekowski> 1k or so
[14:25:11] <twnqx> hundreds, i'd guess
[14:25:14] <Qantouri1c> 1K ?
[14:25:16] <Qantouri1c> hell
[14:25:23] <Qantouri1c> on that budget I can put the sin in memory :)
[14:25:28] <twnqx> sure
[14:25:30] <LoRez> best to use a lookup table
[14:25:34] <twnqx> i did that back on a 386/40mhz
[14:25:36] <Qantouri1c> well for the precision i need anyway
[14:25:37] <jacekowski> sin is a floating point operation
[14:25:43] <jacekowski> and avr has no floating point hardware in in
[14:25:46] <Qantouri1c> jacekowski: yea, but I only need 8 bit :)
[14:25:50] <LoRez> if you can spare the space
[14:25:58] <twnqx> still, multiple divisions etc
[14:26:00] <Qantouri1c> LoRez: EEPROM will still be faster :)
[14:26:14] <twnqx> but it in pgmspace
[14:26:17] <twnqx> put*
[14:26:22] <Qantouri1c> pgmspace ?
[14:26:32] <jacekowski> flash
[14:26:33] <twnqx> rom. with your code.
[14:26:34] <jacekowski> program space
[14:26:43] <Qantouri1c> a ok :)
[14:27:22] <Qantouri1c> I only need 8bit precision, so I should be fine with a lookup table of 32bytes :p
[14:27:29] <twnqx> errr
[14:27:30] <Qantouri1c> will have aliassing issues
[14:27:42] <twnqx> i would go the full 256 bytes...
[14:27:50] <Qantouri1c> or that
[14:27:54] <Qantouri1c> or more :)
[14:27:55] <Qantouri1c> i'll see
[14:28:02] <jacekowski> you only need 0-90 degrees
[14:28:10] <jacekowski> everything else can be worked out from that
[14:28:11] <twnqx> true, you can mirror out the rest
[14:28:20] <Qantouri1c> yea, but that costs cycles :)
[14:28:32] <jacekowski> not a lot
[14:28:47] <twnqx> pgmspace costs cycles too
[14:28:50] <twnqx> unless you copy to ram
[14:29:04] <twnqx> i wonder how much slower my external ram is compared to internal :X
[14:29:26] <jacekowski> same speed
[14:29:34] <jacekowski> but most avrs can't use external ram
[14:29:35] <Qantouri1c> 1kB of ram
[14:29:40] <twnqx> same speed?
[14:29:48] <twnqx> but alone the buffer costs a clock
[14:29:56] <jacekowski> unless you use some gpio hackery
[14:29:57] <twnqx> it's at least 3 clocks access
[14:30:00] <Qantouri1c> good think I need next to nothing for my program :p
[14:30:11] <twnqx> i thought internal ram would be faster
[14:30:13] <jacekowski> no
[14:30:17] <Qantouri1c> twnqx: and how slow is the pgmspace ?
[14:30:26] <jacekowski> twnqx: it depends on how it's implemented
[14:30:40] <Qantouri1c> jacekowski: a same speed :)
[14:30:40] <Qantouri1c> nice
[14:30:52] <twnqx> Qantouri1c: pgmspace is just a different instruction
[14:31:02] <Qantouri1c> nice :)
[14:31:07] <jacekowski> pgmspace is 1 clock cycle
[14:31:10] <jacekowski> or 2
[14:31:16] <jacekowski> not a lot anyways
[14:31:17] <twnqx> then it would be FASTER than ram at 3
[14:31:31] <jacekowski> depends on ram
[14:31:38] <jacekowski> and which avr we are talking abot
[14:31:44] <Qantouri1c> This also means I can pre-flip MSB and LSB if needed :)
[14:31:51] <twnqx> external ram is output low 8 address bits, high 8 address bits, read data
[14:32:12] <jacekowski> twnqx: some AVRs have memory controller to handle that
[14:32:13] <twnqx> with the standard extmem interface
[14:32:17] <twnqx> yes, so?
[14:32:26] <twnqx> they don't run faster than the cpu core
[14:32:36] <jacekowski> for pgmspace you do the same
[14:32:56] <twnqx> i would guess pgmspace is 16bit wide address + data
[14:32:57] <jacekowski> low 8 bits, high 8 bits, read stuff to register
[14:33:08] <twnqx> or rather, i am pretty sure it is
[14:33:27] <twnqx> but the extmem interface is *physically* 8 bit
[14:33:35] <twnqx> hm ok
[14:33:47] <twnqx> it's 16 bit address, but lower 8 bits shared with data
[14:34:12] <twnqx> so 2 cycles
[14:35:05] <jacekowski> LPM instruction is 1 cycle
[14:35:23] <twnqx> for fetching 16 bit of data
[14:35:31] <jacekowski> 8
[14:35:40] <twnqx> sure? i am pretty sure you can't fetch 8 only
[14:35:46] <twnqx> because rom word length is 16 bit...
[14:35:54] <jacekowski> it's not rom, it's flash
[14:35:56] <jacekowski> and yes i'm sure
[14:35:58] <twnqx> same thign
[14:36:04] <jacekowski> i've got instruction set in front of me
[14:36:13] <jacekowski> Loads one byte pointed to by the Z-register into the destination register Rd.
[14:36:13] <Qantouri1c> dang, this DAC needs +-4.5 volts :/
[14:36:53] <jacekowski> and wait
[14:36:54] <jacekowski> it's 3 cycles
[14:38:12] <jacekowski> so progmem is slower
[14:38:56] <jacekowski> but external ram is cleared on powerdown
[14:39:06] <jacekowski> so you have to use some sort of non volatile storage anyways
[14:39:33] <twnqx> if you declare it as a const array it will be copied automatically by the startup code :P
[14:40:09] <jacekowski> yeah, but then it's stored in your program memory anyways
[14:40:15] <jacekowski> so you may as well use it like that
[15:03:43] <Qantourisc> What kind of resistor do you ned to pull up ?
[15:04:24] <Qantourisc> (or down)
[15:07:02] <Qantourisc> a cmos
[15:09:15] <theBear> err, a regular one
[15:10:08] <Qantourisc> theBear: TTL = 5Kohm
[15:10:15] <Qantourisc> CMOS up to 100K (according to internet)
[15:10:24] <Qantourisc> PS, I need something like an AVR Dragon right ?
[15:11:28] <theBear> oh, what value
[15:11:58] <theBear> what for ? i think a dragon is both an overengineered programmer and a emulator
[15:12:25] <Qantourisc> theBear: feel free to recommend me another programer (that can program after you misprogrammed??? it )
[15:12:57] * Qantourisc wonders howmutch mA the atmels can deliver safely
[15:13:05] <Qantourisc> AKA: hook up an array of LED's :)
[15:13:17] <RikusW> Qantourisc: smallest pullup on reset is 10k
[15:13:18] <theBear> oh, a paralell/non-isp programmer, don't know any off the top of my head, i'd probably just find a schem at avrdude or ponyprog website
[15:13:50] <Qantourisc> theBear: and that works after you screwed it up ?
[15:13:51] <theBear> from memory most chips are 200mA total and 20mA max per pin, something like that, like everything it's clearly stated in the datasheet :)
[15:13:52] <Qantourisc> reset ?
[15:14:07] <Qantourisc> theBear: wrong datasheet then :/
[15:14:19] * Qantourisc fetches the other one
[15:14:44] <theBear> that's the kind of programmer you need to program something you have set fuses a 'little' wrong but that can still be programmed, tho there are fuses that make a device totally unreprogrammable or readable
[15:15:06] <Qantourisc> theBear: ever ?
[15:16:44] <theBear> the idea is that you can make a commercial product and completely lock the chip so people can't steal your software or mess with your device
[15:16:53] <Qantourisc> a ok
[15:17:03] <Qantourisc> so just make sure I don't set THAT one :)
[15:18:45] <theBear> yeah, but if you just set a normal not reprogrammable fuse, or something that breaks the clock settings or something, a paralell mode/"high voltage" programmer can fix it
[15:20:56] <Qantourisc> are they all "high voltage" ?
[15:22:22] <theBear> there is generally ISP programmers, the normal ones that need miso and mosi and reset and power and not much else, then parallel mode ones which i THINK are all 'high voltage', but will definately do what you want, then some obscure methods like jtag which i believe works on the chips with hw jtag interfaces, but that's only really practical/likely if you are already using the jtag for something else
[16:05:23] <h4x0riz3d> i got a function which writes to an external eeprom, and another function which reads from it
[16:06:06] <h4x0riz3d> if i write() then read() immediately after that - i get "WTF" .. but if i insert delay_ms(100) between the two - it works as it should
[16:06:09] <h4x0riz3d> why?!
[16:11:07] <tzanger> h4x0riz3d: does your eeprom have a minimum time you have to wait before it can respond to commands after a write?
[16:11:22] <h4x0riz3d> no idea
[16:11:51] <h4x0riz3d> write() usually writes 16 bytes at once (in a for loop)
[16:11:52] <tzanger> well that seems like a pretty important thing to know before asking why
[16:12:02] <h4x0riz3d> read() reads them back, again in a for loop
[16:18:00] <h4x0riz3d> looks like 10ms is enough
[16:18:04] <h4x0riz3d> (delay)
[16:19:23] <theBear> (e(e))proms do take time to write physically
[16:20:09] <h4x0riz3d> but it's never been the problem about writing
[16:20:10] <theBear> not sure about modern technology, but older ones semi-literally 'burn' things on the inside to store the data
[16:20:17] <tzanger> they usually NAK until they're done unless they have internal buffering to accept a command while one is in progress
[16:20:36] <tzanger> h4x0riz3d: you're not understanding what we're saying
[16:21:11] <h4x0riz3d> http://pastebin.com/KDthHpti
[16:21:13] <tzanger> AVR: EE, write 0x01 with 0xaa. EE: ok. AVR: EE, what's at address 0x01? AVR: EE? AVR: EE? Hello?
[16:21:16] <theBear> if that process of physically changing things inside isn't finished and it somehow allows you to write, the value is going to be wrong because it hasn't yet finished writing
[16:21:17] <tzanger> vs
[16:21:37] <theBear> sorry, somehow allows you to READ
[16:21:46] <tzanger> AVR: EE, write 0x01 with 0xaa. EE: ok. AVR: /waits for a few ms/ AVR: EE, what's at address 0x01? EE: 0x01 contains 0x12.
[16:22:58] <tzanger> it's kind of like the relationship between my wife and I... Wife: tz, do x. me: Ok. Wife: tz, do y. Wife: tz? me: Hang on, I'm busy doing x still Wife: So? why can't you do both?
[16:23:00] <theBear> that's a good point, you may just be getting a "i'm not ready yet" response but not parsing it as different to data
[16:23:16] <tzanger> in this case, h4x0riz3d is acting like my wife :-)
[16:23:33] <theBear> <grin>
[16:23:37] <h4x0riz3d> okay, what do you suggest?
[16:23:59] <theBear> read the eeprom datasheet, or do a few tests to be SURE of a reasonable/working delay, and stick with that
[16:24:16] <theBear> but really, i think we both suggest reading the eeprom datasheet to be sure
[16:24:17] <tzanger> h4x0riz3d: I suggest reading the datasheet for your EE and either implementing busy checks as I'm sure it'll need them, or simply waiting longer than the maximum write time
[16:24:52] <theBear> 10ms might work today, but in different weather it might need 15ms, the datasheet in that case may well say 20ms for a known safe margin
[16:24:58] <h4x0riz3d> i don't think it's 1 type of eeprom
[16:25:07] <theBear> huh ?
[16:25:17] <h4x0riz3d> the BOM for this device lists a few different EEPROM models
[16:25:33] <tzanger> doesn't matter. look at all the eeproms you'll use from all the vendors you'll use them from (trust me vendor to vendor varies greatly in some cases) and select the maximum write time + 10ms as your minimum delay
[16:28:22] <cart_man> Hey
[16:28:54] <cart_man> Does someone know which fuse is actually the "Full-Swing" fuse?
[16:28:54] <cart_man> what is it called in Atmel Studio 6?
[16:29:06] <cart_man> I just broken my brand new AVR
[16:29:16] <cart_man> trying to fix it now
[16:29:24] <cart_man> RikusW: you there?
[16:29:27] <tzanger> this becomes apparent when your design goes to production and the purchasing manager's bonus is proportional to the amount of money he can save the company and you end up with eeproms that are made by Atnel or Microship and have 10x the write time than the parts from the approved vendors.
[16:30:08] <h4x0riz3d> well i'm looking at the datasheet on one.. and O_x i can't figure out which value i need
[16:30:33] <h4x0riz3d> "Write Cycle Time" maybe?
[16:30:34] <tzanger> there'll be something in the AC timing table about time to write or something to that effect
[16:30:41] <tzanger> yes that sounds right. which part is it?
[16:31:03] <h4x0riz3d> http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=CAT25320LI-Gvirtualkey69800000virtualkey698-CAT25320LI-G
[16:31:27] <tzanger> well that's spi not I2C but same idea yes
[16:31:36] <h4x0riz3d> 5ms
[16:31:58] <h4x0riz3d> so i need to wait at least 5ms between write and read?
[16:32:09] <tzanger> between write and anything but read status cmd I bet
[16:32:39] <tzanger> During an internal write cycle,
[16:32:40] <tzanger> all commands, except for RDSR (Read Status Register) will
[16:32:40] <tzanger> be ignored.
[16:32:55] <h4x0riz3d> because, if you look at the function i pasted above - there's only these NOPs when writing a single byte
[16:33:31] <tzanger> or you could just read the status register and look at RDY#
[16:33:46] <h4x0riz3d> and when i write 16bytes at once in my for loop - there's no delay between each byte, and that seems no problem (ever)
[16:34:16] <h4x0riz3d> i only got a problem if i read immediately after writing those 16 bytes
[16:34:17] <tzanger> so write, then spin in a do { busy = read_status_reg() & 0x1; } while(busy);
[16:34:34] <tzanger> h4x0riz3d: you're probably using burst write mode, which lets you write up to 32 bytes at a time
[16:34:56] <h4x0riz3d> i don't know, i didn't write that code
[16:35:02] <h4x0riz3d> http://pastebin.com/KDthHpti
[16:35:06] <tzanger> After sending the first data byte to the CAT25320, the host
[16:35:06] <tzanger> may continue sending data, up to a total of 32 bytes,
[16:35:06] <tzanger> according to timing shown in Figure 6.
[16:35:13] <h4x0riz3d> these two functions are for readin/writing single bytes
[16:35:17] <tzanger> why don't you read the datasheet and compare to the code
[16:35:19] <h4x0riz3d> i just use them *shrug*
[16:35:33] <tzanger> using stuff without trying to understand them is not a good tactic
[16:36:04] <tzanger> it leads to silly questions on IRC, for one, and can cause some really nasty bugs for yourself or others to try and untangle later on
[16:36:04] <h4x0riz3d> ouch then
[16:36:24] <RikusW> cart_man: yes
[16:36:31] <h4x0riz3d> because i'm neither into EE, nor into AVR coding
[16:37:10] <tzanger> no worries, this is a good place to start. :-)
[16:37:22] <RikusW> cart_man: what fuse values dit you set and for which avr ?
[16:37:25] <tzanger> how did you get yourself to using this code if you're neither an EE nor AVR programmer?
[16:37:44] <h4x0riz3d> it's part of a synthesizer
[16:38:09] <h4x0riz3d> but the firmware wasn't "good" (the user interface of it)
[16:38:26] <h4x0riz3d> and since it was open source, i managed to modify it little by little
[16:38:35] * h4x0riz3d knows some C++ before that
[16:38:44] <tzanger> nice
[16:39:00] <h4x0riz3d> but i'm totally lost with circuit design and stuff
[16:39:39] <tzanger> if you got this far you've got what it takes to get through it
[16:39:51] <h4x0riz3d> it took me 2 days to figure out that the bug i'm stuck on is related to this (reading immediately after writing)
[16:40:09] <h4x0riz3d> and i was reading my other parts of code over and over and couldn't see what the problem is
[16:40:38] <cart_man> RikusW: it is a Atmega 328 and I set the Lowe Fuse to 0xFF
[16:40:43] <cart_man> for 20Mhz crystla
[16:40:55] <RikusW> e and h fuse ?
[16:40:55] <cart_man> but it worked fine on my other AVR though exactly the same
[16:41:05] <cart_man> Didnt touch them
[16:41:09] <cart_man> Stock standard
[16:41:24] <RikusW> FF is right
[16:41:35] <RikusW> did you connect a crystal and the two 18pF caps ?
[16:41:51] <h4x0riz3d> tzanger so you say the first 32 bytes can be written immediately, after which..?
[16:42:00] <theBear> heh, if yer not into understanding or avr coding you should be in #arduino, not here :)
[16:42:05] <cart_man> But it has to be the fact that my MAIN MCU's XT2 goes to the XT1 of the second Atmega 328
[16:42:05] <cart_man> and I didnt switch FULL-Swing mode on
[16:42:26] <RikusW> disconnect that for now and see if it works
[16:42:37] <cart_man> ok
[16:42:40] <tzanger> h4x0riz3d: as is in the data sheet, you can write 32 bytes and then you must wait the write time (or poll the RDY# bit) to see when you can write more
[16:42:41] <RikusW> you could always use CKOUT
[16:42:46] <h4x0riz3d> theBear at first i was at #arduino, but then they always assumed i have an arduino, and i don't
[16:42:47] <RikusW> lfuse = BF
[16:42:58] <tzanger> fuck that
[16:43:10] <tzanger> don't send him into the inflatable castle of programming
[16:43:37] <tzanger> he's able to program and he found datasheets.. we just need to help him read them and understand what's in them
[16:43:38] <theBear> mmm, that doesn't really work for modifying existing code, but seriously, if you wanna modify code in a hardware device, you should at least understand the bits you are messing with
[16:44:02] <theBear> but he said he's not into ee or avr coding :(
[16:44:14] <theBear> maybe we need to CONVINCE him to read and understand them :)
[16:44:35] <h4x0riz3d> :/
[16:44:41] <RikusW> cart_man: fullswing seems to be F7
[16:44:45] <theBear> we're not here to do his work for him, eh should at least be interested in avr coding if he is avr coding, otherwise it seems kinda pointless
[16:45:05] <theBear> yer never gonna be good at something if you can't get interested in it
[16:45:06] <cart_man> so the lower bit will read F7?
[16:45:16] <cart_man> and it should be the Secondary AVR?
[16:45:17] <jacekowski> well, he can pay someone else to do it for him
[16:45:31] <h4x0riz3d> theBear i'm interested in changing the user interface of this synthesizer
[16:45:40] <h4x0riz3d> (via modifying the code)
[16:45:56] <h4x0riz3d> but i cannot modify the BOM or components
[16:46:10] <h4x0riz3d> nor do i understand why each component was chosen or what it does exactly
[16:46:11] <theBear> thusly you are interested in programming an avr, thusly you have a vested interest in understanding them enough to achieve your goal
[16:46:48] <cart_man> Hmm you guys talking about me?
[16:46:53] <theBear> heh nah
[16:47:19] <cart_man> YAY it WORKS !!!!!!!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOO
[16:47:19] <theBear> seems i just got a bit upset when someone was asking for help with avr coding at the same time as saying they aren't interested in avr coding
[16:47:29] * theBear is sensitive on the inside
[16:47:30] <cart_man> RikusW: Thanks R
[16:47:42] <h4x0riz3d> i didn't say i'm not interested
[16:47:43] <cart_man> Ohh I see
[16:47:49] <cart_man> yae then he really shouldnt bother
[16:47:53] <h4x0riz3d> i said i'm not _into_ EE/avr
[16:48:01] <theBear> doesn't taht mean the same thing ?
[16:48:10] <RikusW> though I'd go with CKOUT
[16:48:10] <RikusW> and set the other avr to external clock E0 - that will brick it unless an external clock is connected
[16:48:10] <RikusW> cart_man: how long is the connecting wire ?
[16:48:17] <h4x0riz3d> meaning that's not what i normally do, nor do i have some background experience in it
[16:48:18] <cart_man> As in Digital system development AVR?
[16:48:30] <cart_man> so youre into Hobby stuff?
[16:48:51] <RikusW> cart_man: F7 is full swing
[16:49:00] <h4x0riz3d> when you say "homework" it's like i'm going to sell this afterwards
[16:49:13] <theBear> mmmm, i guess into something has a different meaning there... i'll stop ranting now, everyone knows my opinion... i'm happy to help so long as i'm helping someone learn, not helping them avoid learning
[16:49:53] <jadew> sup?
[16:50:05] <theBear> me, stupid insomnia
[16:50:13] <cart_man> RikusW: Im kind of afraid of doing the Full Swing thing now
[16:50:14] <jadew> welcome to the club!
[16:50:41] <cart_man> RikusW: If I do the Full Swing fuse now will it still be programmable with the Crystal directly on it?
[16:50:55] <RikusW> BF is normal + CKOUT
[16:50:55] <RikusW> E0 is external clock input
[16:50:55] <RikusW> cart_man: which fuse value did you use ?
[16:50:55] <RikusW> fullswing ?
[16:50:55] <RikusW> just had a huge lag....
[16:50:55] <RikusW> adsl ping is like 60s sometimes...
[16:51:08] <h4x0riz3d> theBear it's not like i'm "avoiding" to learn.. but it's just too many things that i don't know and i'm half-way in them
[16:51:15] <theBear> last few days freenode has often had several minute delays too
[16:51:20] <cart_man> RikusW: No I didnt use Full swing YET
[16:51:27] <jadew> full swing will only make the clock wave bigger
[16:51:28] <RikusW> only CKOUT ?
[16:51:33] <theBear> h4x0riz3d, mmm, i suppose that's good then
[16:51:36] <RikusW> I'd say thats the better way
[16:51:37] <h4x0riz3d> if i have to pause everything in order to properly learn those things then i'll be "learning" for years
[16:51:47] <jadew> will consume a bit more power, but it will be able to drive another MCU too
[16:51:57] <cart_man> RikusW: I am plannign on BUT I was wondering that if I use the Full Swing fuse now that its working with th Crystla on Osc1 and Osc2 will it still function like that?
[16:52:13] <RikusW> if it works leave as is ;)
[16:52:31] <h4x0riz3d> do you have to know assembler before you start writing C or C++ code?
[16:52:32] <RikusW> use the CKOUT pin + fuse
[16:52:42] <jadew> h4x0riz3d, I don't know what you're talking about, but having WHAT to learn for years is great
[16:52:56] <h4x0riz3d> it's not great
[16:53:04] <h4x0riz3d> that means i won't get anything done
[16:53:31] <jadew> sure it is, my goal was to make a thermometer when I got into this, I don't have the thermometer done yet, but in the process I _stopped and learned_ a lot of other stuff
[16:53:35] <angs> how can I activate a pin change interrupt inside an another pin change interrupt function? e.g. http://pastebin.com/drdTPQ5P what I want to activate PCINIT8 when PCINIT6 is interrupted on the code
[16:53:56] <RikusW> you could do sei() in the code
[16:54:02] <tzanger> angs: yep you can do that
[16:54:08] <RikusW> but there might be trouble waiting....
[16:54:11] <angs> if I use sei() inside ISR (PCINT0_vect) it works, but how is it possible to do without using sei inside ISR (PCINT0_vect)?
[16:54:12] <jadew> yeah, but... don't
[16:54:13] <tzanger> you're executing code, doesn't matter where you enable the next pin change
[16:54:20] <tzanger> oh wait
[16:54:22] <RikusW> race conditions , re-entrant code etc...
[16:54:30] <angs> is it bad to use sei() inside an ISR?
[16:54:30] <tzanger> you want to be in an isr, enable interrupts and catch the next one? no don't do that
[16:54:33] <tzanger> nested interrupts are bad
[16:54:47] <RikusW> yep
[16:54:49] <tzanger> but if you want to be in an isr and reconfigure how the next isr will get called, that's cool
[16:54:55] <RikusW> I'd rather not do that(tm)
[16:54:59] <angs> my actual question is here http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16574860/avr-c-reading-input-by-an-external-interrupt
[16:55:35] <angs> I would appreciate if any of you could tell me how I should fix the code
[16:56:23] <tzanger> I don't understand what you're trying to do
[16:56:34] <tzanger> are you trying to figureout hte time spent high and low?
[16:56:53] <angs> no I want to take sample when the pin change
[16:57:03] <tzanger> so why are you using three pins?
[16:57:16] <tzanger> use one, have it interrupt on any change (1-0 and 0-1)
[16:57:32] <jadew> and then sample = PINx;
[16:57:45] <cart_man> WHoaa sounds simple
[16:58:05] <cart_man> Ive had nested interrupts lock my AVR up :s
[16:58:19] <tzanger> so don't nest interrupts
[16:58:23] <jadew> nested interrupts raped my dog
[16:58:26] <cart_man> indeed^^
[16:58:26] <angs> first I was using two pins the interrupts but I messed with something that was not working
[16:58:52] <angs> I will try it with two interrupts then ask it again
[16:59:02] <tzanger> why two?
[16:59:02] <jadew> angs, you don't need two interrupts
[16:59:04] <tzanger> do it in one
[16:59:07] <jadew> one is enough for both states
[16:59:09] <jadew> high and low
[17:00:24] <angs> ok thank you I will try it again
[17:00:47] <jadew> what's the end result you're trying to achieve?
[17:01:21] <angs> it is a manchester code, I was trying to decode it. but it is not the full code, I just thought I was doing mistake there
[17:01:36] <jadew> got it
[17:01:53] <angs> the sequence is not always 1 0, if it is longer than one bit, then I use timer to sample
[17:02:05] <angs> thank you for the help I will make my mind and try to code again
[17:02:07] <h4x0riz3d> tzanger okay, i see the write code actually has this do {} while() to check the status, i added it to the read function and now it works
[17:02:09] <h4x0riz3d> thanks
[17:02:22] <tzanger> no worries, you should also add it to the start of the write
[17:02:30] <h4x0riz3d> it has it
[17:02:34] <tzanger> oh ok
[17:02:36] <h4x0riz3d> that's where i copied it from
[17:02:36] <tzanger> perfect
[17:03:04] <jadew> do {} while(1);
[17:03:10] <h4x0riz3d> seems whoever wrote the code only had trouble when writing long chunks of data at once, but never had issues with reading immediately after writing
[17:03:45] <vectory_> linux kernel nests interrupts alot, i heard. just sayin
[17:04:36] <vectory_> or it just interupts, when it is in kernelmode already. just noticed i might confuse that due to lack of knowledge
[17:05:31] <tzanger> h4x0riz3d: or they just never tried to read right away, or were using faster flash parts, or were just plain lucky
[17:05:54] <tzanger> vectory_: which driver nests interrupts?
[17:06:03] <tzanger> (I write linux device drivers as part of my job)
[17:06:16] <h4x0riz3d> the original code doesn't have such a case where they read immediately after writing, otherwise i would have experienced it on my unit with the original firmware ;]
[17:06:42] <h4x0riz3d> i'm doing radical changes to the user interface ;P~
[17:06:42] <vectory_> tzanger: i just said, i might have misread something :X
[17:19:49] <cart_man> RikusW: Do you have some sort of IM you?
[17:44:45] <cart_man> tzanger: you still there?
[17:50:43] <tzanger> cart_man: yes
[17:51:12] <cart_man> Will it be ok if I asked you qeustions about C programming for Linux? From time to time I mean.But non AVR related?
[17:51:31] <cart_man> I ask whoever I can cause the learning curve is quite steap
[17:51:53] <Tom_itx> should be ok
[17:58:48] <cart_man> tzanger: Do you know anything about XMPP and/orr LibPurple ?
[17:59:23] <cart_man> or anybody for that matter
[17:59:56] <tzanger> cart_man: I use xmpp but have never developed anything with it
[18:00:37] <cart_man> tzanger: you mean you use the software or use the library in C?
[18:01:57] <cart_man> I want to write a lightweight Console version of Gtalk for Raspberry Pi.
[18:02:31] <R0b0t1> cart_man: What about XMPP?
[18:03:05] <tzanger> I've used Adium/kopete/gtalk and a few cli based ones. never wrote any xmpp software
[18:04:25] <cart_man> R0b0t1: I just want to right a Gtalk client with XMPP in linux and in C. I need to write one big program that will incorporate Gtalk and the IO pins on the Raspberry POrts so thats why I need to keep the whole thing on C level
[18:04:28] * R0b0t1 thought he meant XMM as in SIMD, oops
[18:05:30] <vectory_> tzanger: so how much maillists are you subscribed to? :P
[18:05:33] <R0b0t1> cart_man, there should be script-level bindings for IO, I would expect the same with Gtalk. In any case, were you having any specific problems, or looking for organization suggestions?
[18:06:06] <vectory_> R0b0t1: that was mmx, no?
[18:06:34] <R0b0t1> vexorg, indeed, SIMD used XMM registers and was newer, MMX used MMX registers and was older iirc.
[18:07:08] <cart_man> R0b0t1: well I was hoping to talk to someone in the future about things I ran into a while ago...I was doing it from a Tutorial and after allot of errors I just ran into more :s
[18:07:36] <vectory_> i looked at opcode table for x86 and cried for avr risc yesterday :D
[18:07:39] <R0b0t1> Which kind, for which library?
[18:07:45] <tzanger> mmx was a precursor to simd, yes. Wikipedia would have all the gory details
[18:07:49] <R0b0t1> vectory_, yup :P
[18:08:06] <cart_man> But I will have to send the code and all that... Its not very long though about 120 lines . The library is XMPP and LibPurple
[18:08:32] <R0b0t1> I was working with polymorphic code a while back and could disasm x86 machine code in my head, luckily that skill quickly passed. I feared for my sanity.
[18:08:38] <R0b0t1> cart_man: bdpaste.net
[18:08:56] <R0b0t1> shit, forgot extension
[18:09:23] <R0b0t1> http://bpaste.net/
[18:09:41] <R0b0t1> cart_man: If any of the errors pertain to a project, you may wish to find their IRC or mailing list.
[18:11:56] <tzanger> R0b0t1: heh same here. I was pretty in to virus research back in the day. none of it is all that interesting to me anymore mind
[18:12:48] <R0b0t1> Yeah same.
[18:12:49] <R0b0t1> :\
[18:13:15] <R0b0t1> Some guy in ##pic was planning on doing polymorphism with an 8051 core and some NVSRAM.
[18:13:19] <R0b0t1> Horologium, in fact.
[18:13:21] <cart_man> R0b0t1: do I email the paste on paste.net or something?
[18:13:33] <R0b0t1> cart_man, you can say the url in here.
[18:13:57] <cart_man> haha neat website :)
[18:13:58] <cart_man> http://dpaste.com/1164056/
[18:14:00] <R0b0t1> I may not be able to help a great deal, mind.
[18:14:18] <cart_man> Yea no worries im pretty sure yore much better then nothing
[18:15:08] <R0b0t1> http://bpaste.net/show/1bEtbOFRgRY9nLdcInNW/
[18:15:09] <R0b0t1> Syntax!
[18:15:20] <R0b0t1> cart_man, paste errors as well?
[18:15:46] <cart_man> On it...Ok 1 sec restarting into Linux :s
[18:15:57] <cart_man> thought I had it pasted somewhere already
[18:19:18] <cart_man> Ok back
[18:22:25] <cart_man> R0b0t1: http://goo.gl/bxpmc
[18:22:29] <cart_man> theres the erros
[18:22:35] <cart_man> It still doesnt make sense to me
[18:22:57] <cart_man> Yesterday night I got at it again and had allot of trouble getting LIbs to work
[18:27:37] <R0b0t1> cart_man, can you repaste to a site that does not redirect on adblock?
[18:28:17] <cart_man> R0b0t1: http://paste.org/64600
[18:28:20] <twnqx> R0b0t1: it doesn't redirect on adblock + noscript:P
[18:28:21] <cart_man> errors or code?
[18:28:36] <cart_man> I made the errors and the code seperately
[18:28:48] <Casper> cart_man: don'T use paste.org
[18:29:04] <cart_man> :( forgot what the first one was
[18:29:16] <cart_man> when I switched into linux
[18:29:37] <R0b0t1> bpaste.net
[18:29:37] <twnqx> still clearly linking error
[18:29:52] <cart_man> shit ok going bpaste.net ...sigh sorry
[18:30:30] <twnqx> anyway, bed.
[18:31:11] <cart_man> R0b0t1: http://bpaste.net/show/99207/
[18:31:56] <R0b0t1> Yes, is linking error.
[18:32:19] <R0b0t1> Does the linking switch for your compiler point to the proper directory?
[18:32:48] <cart_man> Well I had allot of trouble getting it to stop complaining about the Libraries
[18:33:10] <cart_man> im using CodeBlocks
[18:33:14] <R0b0t1> That might've been similar, but for includes. Did you fix it with the -I switch?
[18:33:16] <cart_man> and I added all the directories to the linker
[18:33:38] <cart_man> No I dont know where to use the -I switch ...thats if I compile via Terminal right?
[18:33:41] <R0b0t1> You must be missing a directory, somehow. Where did libpurple install to, what is the .so's name?
[18:33:53] <cart_man> it installed to /usr/include/
[18:34:07] <R0b0t1> cart_man, well, yes. Codeblocks still invokes GCC, however.
[18:34:16] <R0b0t1> cart_man, no, /usr/include is the header files
[18:34:20] <R0b0t1> (or should be)
[18:34:34] <R0b0t1> the .so should be located in like /usr/lib or /usr/share/lib
[18:34:43] <cart_man> let me check
[18:37:54] <cart_man> R0b0t1: No I cant seem to find it in /usr/lib or /usr/share/lib
[18:39:33] <cart_man> I did install it though ?
[18:42:14] <cart_man> are you talking about libpurple.so ?
[18:42:49] <R0b0t1> Yeah
[18:42:56] <R0b0t1> The linker is unable to find it
[18:43:11] <R0b0t1> It also may be named differently, such as including a version number
[18:43:38] <cart_man> ok I foundit with "FIND" terminal
[18:43:39] <cart_man> turns out
[18:44:05] <cart_man> /usr/lib/libpurple.so just like you said
[18:45:01] <cart_man> Do I add the /usr/lib/ to the Linker folder in codeblocks?
[18:47:59] <R0b0t1> Yeah
[18:48:41] <cart_man> Holy shit ! The terminal just popped up :))))
[18:48:51] <cart_man> Omg such a noob at Hard-Mode Linux
[18:51:55] <R0b0t1> Hooray.
[18:54:59] <cart_man> heh thanks ...did you copy and paste it into an IDE or just compiled it like that?
[18:55:10] <cart_man> Thanks allot btw!
[18:57:51] <cart_man> Because if you switch your Gtalk User name and pass and also add prpl-gtalk as IM server then youll probably just get NULL
[18:57:56] <cart_man> checking why
[19:01:43] <Hotroot> As a total newbie getting into this without specific AVR's in mind, is it worth splurging for a Dragon-like programmer?
[19:03:20] <cart_man> Yea
[19:03:24] <cart_man> cheaper one
[19:03:33] <cart_man> AVRISPMK II aint that much cheaper
[19:03:42] <cart_man> and Dragon has ISDebugging
[19:03:48] <dunz0r> And HV
[19:03:50] <cart_man> which is a big deal I realized
[19:03:54] <cart_man> HV?
[19:04:01] <dunz0r> High Voltage programming
[19:04:14] <cart_man> Oh right...
[19:04:33] <Hotroot> HV is for when I screw something up, right? Not sure exactly what.
[19:04:38] <dunz0r> Haven't have to use it yet on my Dragon, but it's nice to know it's there.
[19:04:46] <cart_man> Think allot of different things
[19:04:50] <dunz0r> Hotroot: Exactly. If you set fuse pins the wrong way etc.
[19:04:50] <prpplague> Hotroot: not exactly sure what you are planning, but something as simple as the usbtiny programmer from sparkfun, is more than enough to get started
[19:05:04] <dunz0r> *fuse bits
[19:05:27] <Hotroot> I don't really know about fuse bits yet.
[19:05:44] <Hotroot> prpplague: Probably just some simple breadboarding for now, but I appreciate versatility
[19:06:36] <Hotroot> I mean, if I'm going to have one programmer, why not have the one that can target all the chips I might use? On the other hand, I'm getting conflicted info on which chips the regular USB programmers can use.
[19:06:58] <prpplague> Hotroot: i'd recommend the usbtiny to get started, then after you know about what you want to do, and you are sure you want something more robust, then buy it
[19:08:17] <Hotroot> Can usbtiny do all ATtiny's and ATmegas?
[19:09:09] <prpplague> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9825
[19:09:18] <prpplague> pretty much anything that is supported by avrdude
[19:11:34] <Hotroot> prpplague: So with this, I can still debug over the cable, right?
[19:11:55] <Hotroot> Also, doesn't seem to be able to shift down to 3.3v like the Dragon can, but that doesn't really matter
[19:13:07] <prpplague> Hotroot: it can program at 3.3v, just not provide the power to the device at 3.3
[19:13:18] <prpplague> Hotroot: no it does not provide debugging
[19:13:29] <cart_man> R0b0t1: Have you tried connecting with the little C Program?
[19:14:27] <Hotroot> prpplague: Ah. So it can't use the cable to my PC at all for that? I mean, if I can get a Dragon clone for like $30'ish, and get better model support with variable voltage and debugging...
[19:14:33] <R0b0t1> No, I am rather busy. If you need library specific troubleshooting, you should get someone with libpurple experience :)
[19:15:16] <cart_man> R0b0t1: Ok will do...But thanks allot thought ! helped me allot :)
[19:15:20] <cart_man> stupid error but still
[19:23:01] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, mine does all the 8bit avr chips
[19:23:58] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Have you tested the ATmegas? They say in the product info that they only guarantee support for 2 chips, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence
[19:24:31] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, this is mine: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[19:24:45] <Tom_itx> atmegas, xmegas, attiny
[19:24:54] <Tom_itx> and the little 6 pin attiny
[19:25:41] <Tom_itx> who says?
[19:25:57] <tzanger> http://buff.ly/17vudwa
[19:26:49] <Tom_itx> i should restart the router again
[19:26:58] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, what are you looking to do?
[19:27:45] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Yours looks neat. So ISP and PDI basically encompass all chips aside from the 6 pin?
[19:27:56] <Tom_itx> including them
[19:28:06] <Hotroot> Then why TPI?
[19:28:06] <Tom_itx> it is a programmer
[19:28:10] <Tom_itx> not a debugger
[19:28:18] <Tom_itx> TPI is for the 6 pin attinys
[19:28:38] <Tom_itx> works down to 1.75v
[19:28:45] <Hotroot> Yeah, but I mean those two pin types work for all else
[19:29:00] <Tom_itx> this supports ISP, PDI and TPI
[19:29:11] <Tom_itx> all the current programming protocols i'm aware of
[19:29:14] <Hotroot> Anyway, just looking to mess around for now, breadboard some stuff, but I don't want to buy one if I'm going to need debugging or HV capability later
[19:29:39] <Tom_itx> 90% don't use debugging
[19:29:57] <Tom_itx> and you can debug alot with an led or a serial terminal
[19:30:49] <Tom_itx> the only reason you would need HV is if you screw up the fuse settings or something silly
[19:31:28] <Horologium> I've never used a debugger in the,,,umm,,,10 years I've been doing microcontrollers.
[19:31:30] <Hotroot> Right, but as long as I'm going to have one, sending info over USB is nice
[19:32:03] <theBear> mmmm, i've occasionally thought a debugger might save me 5 minutes, but it'd take longer than that to make or even order and connect one :)
[19:32:42] <Horologium> and I did my first 5 years with AVRs with nothing but 4 resistors and some wire connected to my parallel port for a programmer.
[19:32:57] <theBear> i've got a little fig8 setup i've used on occasion, simplest connection is one byte for 4 bits per 'digit'
[19:33:01] <Tom_itx> i've got a debugger and a dragon and i honestly am not sure where they are right now
[19:33:07] <R0b0t1> theBear, you're supposed to be sleeping.
[19:33:11] <theBear> can't sleep :(
[19:33:21] <Horologium> I can see my dragon and stk500...both covered in dust.
[19:33:26] <theBear> after 8 now, gotta make soem phonecalls today or i might not have electricity next week
[19:33:30] <R0b0t1> Alcohol causes insomnia!
[19:33:39] <theBear> that'd be fine if i had more alcahol
[19:33:42] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: So yours is a mkII clone right? Anything it can do the other cant?
[19:33:53] <theBear> chronic pain and sad thoughts can do it too
[19:33:55] <Tom_itx> it has a recovery clock built in
[19:34:29] <Tom_itx> and it's alot better than the bit banged usb ones
[19:34:32] <tzanger> I have a dragon only for hvsp. never had to use avarice yet for debug
[19:34:46] <theBear> heh, avarice
[19:34:49] <Tom_itx> i've made those too and have a pile of them here i'll never use
[19:34:55] <tzanger> and the only other AVR I work with is can128 which is jtag
[19:35:33] <Tom_itx> some of the specialty avrs may be but the mainstream ones are all ISP PDI or TPI
[19:35:38] <Horologium> it is possible to unbrick an avr with screwed up fuses if you have a 555 and a few switches.
[19:35:42] <tzanger> Tom_itx: what do you use for gdb connectivity?
[19:35:46] <Horologium> heck, can even do it without the 555.
[19:35:53] <theBear> might take a while tho
[19:35:56] <Tom_itx> tzanger i seldom if ever use it
[19:36:00] <theBear> and patience and diligence :)
[19:36:01] <tzanger> yeah I know. I just haven't used many others
[19:36:22] <Horologium> theBear, yeah....doesn't take a lot to reprogram 3 fuses..and usually it's just 1 really.
[19:36:41] <theBear> mmm, when you put it like that
[19:36:42] <Tom_itx> seems all noobs start out thinking they need the world when in truth they don't know what they need
[19:36:47] <tzanger> Tom_itx: same, which is why I haven't needed avarice. most of my AVR work is very timing tight so I end up with a scope and gpio. ;-)
[19:37:09] <Tom_itx> tzanger, i've got an avrice clone and don't think i've used it but maybe once
[19:37:23] <Tom_itx> and that was just to try it
[19:37:45] <theBear> simplicity is what got me into avrs, pics were on expensive boards and needed weird compilers and complex programmers, proms needed HUGE programmers, avr just needed a parport and gcc
[19:38:01] <tzanger> Tom_itx: no avarice the software that attaches gdb to an AVR
[19:38:05] <Tom_itx> hell even rue finally broke down and got one
[19:38:17] <Tom_itx> ahh
[19:38:46] <theBear> hehehe
[19:38:56] <Tom_itx> he was stuck on parport for sooooo long
[19:38:56] <tzanger> theBear: I started out on pics in asm. I have a few contracts that use ccs and that is such a steaming pile of shit I charge through the nose for those jobs
[19:39:07] <theBear> my rif programmer is still pretty hitech in my world, it's got a buffer !
[19:39:17] <Tom_itx> so does mine
[19:39:23] <Tom_itx> it's all tucked away in a drawer
[19:39:29] <tzanger> theBear: xc is ok but give me an AVR and gcc any day over proprietary shit
[19:39:52] <theBear> mmm, since avrs came about i haven't looked back
[19:40:02] <Tom_itx> neither have i
[19:40:29] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, did you have a project in mind?
[19:40:37] <tzanger> I still use pic for a few things because I haven't convinced the client to move off
[19:40:53] <theBear> might do up a prom for that z80 i got somewhere one day, for the nostalgia of wiring a whole little bus up, but only for the nostalgia :)
[19:41:13] <tzanger> hahaha
[19:41:31] <tzanger> I did an 8088 project on a breadboard. that was painful
[19:41:56] <Tom_itx> now do it in a fpga
[19:41:57] <Tom_itx> :)
[19:41:59] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Yeah, I know I have no idea what I need. The problem is my personality. I can't stand buying something if I think I'm going to replace it soon.
[19:42:17] <Tom_itx> i doubt you will really
[19:42:19] <theBear> Hotroot, heh, so you gotta convince yourself you won't replace it soon
[19:42:43] <Hotroot> Anyway, no, not any specific projects in mind. Mostly just LED stuff on breadboards. Maybe a motion detector, etc.
[19:42:43] <Tom_itx> quite a few here have used them
[19:42:57] <Tom_itx> i've got a tutorial on that page too
[19:42:58] <theBear> if i couldn't find my rif programmer now i'd just grab my old db25 + resistors + header and program away like i did around 10 years ago when avrs hit the country
[19:43:17] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[19:43:43] <theBear> and a something232something board is handy, serial in/out opens up a whole world of debugging and interfacin
[19:43:45] <theBear> g
[19:44:07] <theBear> and by board i mean any scrap of something you can squeeze a chip and a handful of passives on
[19:44:23] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Bookmarked =)
[19:44:28] <R0b0t1> Hotroot: 8-bit controllers are good to learn on, especially AVRs because of the dearth of hobbyist-created code, but I would eventually set your sights on ARM-Cortex chips.
[19:45:12] <Hotroot> I enjoy the restrictions and minimalism
[19:45:35] <Hotroot> I already write code on my PC that is unrestricted.
[19:45:54] <theBear> heh, they are a lot more powerful, but most cortex are pretty darned minimilast
[19:46:00] <theBear> minimilist ?
[19:46:07] <theBear> minimalist
[19:46:10] <tzanger> yes. AVR then arm. learn msp430 if you want. that covers a ton of the embedded space
[19:46:11] <theBear> i like the last one
[19:46:18] <Hotroot> They draw more power though right? Higher average costs, etc?
[19:46:52] <theBear> few more mA, probably on avg 25-50% more than an avr, but that's still under 5 bucks
[19:46:57] <R0b0t1> theBear, in a sense yes, but compared to AVR and most certainly PIC cores, they almost have TOO MUCH room.
[19:47:15] <R0b0t1> DMA, I2S, FPU w/ DSP, Ethernet MAC, ...
[19:47:32] <R0b0t1> Well, high-end ones.
[19:47:40] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Trying to figure out the difference between these programmers now.
[19:47:49] <theBear> wow, i didnt' know they were that fancy, i haven't really looked since they first came out
[19:47:49] <Tom_itx> ask
[19:47:53] <R0b0t1> The STM32F0 tend to be quite minimalist, but still have enough power you can be a shitty coder.
[19:47:56] <Badaboom> whats the path in studio for include files?
[19:47:59] <R0b0t1> Which is why one should learn on 8-bit :)
[19:48:17] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: What's the big difference between yours/MK and https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9825
[19:48:19] <theBear> until yer squeezing for cycles you can be pretty shitty on an avr too :)
[19:48:39] <R0b0t1> But that happens with some common enough projects, the student will learn ^.^
[19:48:56] <R0b0t1> I've been trying to get ahold of some NXP Cortex, but they have a shitty sampling program.
[19:49:13] <R0b0t1> They tend to have smaller footprints, which are attractive. Mostly the same features, I guess.
[19:49:34] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, that one is a bitbanged usb programmer
[19:49:39] <Tom_itx> and will only do ISP
[19:49:49] <Hotroot> What does only ISP knock off?
[19:49:49] <theBear> what's wrong with paying for them ? frivelous sampling just makes sampling harder when it's justified
[19:49:53] <Hotroot> The ATTiny's?
[19:49:56] <Tom_itx> mine is hardware USB and will do ISP PDI and TPI
[19:50:04] <Badaboom> Hello again Hotroot
[19:50:12] <Hotroot> Badaboom: Ah, hello Bada
[19:50:16] <Badaboom> lol
[19:50:20] <Tom_itx> xmega and the attiny 4 5 9 and 10 and a couple others
[19:50:29] <theBear> you gotta understand that a couple of the guys in here really do world class/leading work, both software and things like programmers
[19:50:42] <theBear> just 'cos it's irc doesn't mean there aren't special people here
[19:50:48] <Tom_itx> xmega are up and coming with lots and lots of features
[19:50:50] <Badaboom> At least i didnt have a newbie wiring there projest vcc to gnd and dng to gnd:)
[19:50:58] <R0b0t1> theBear, maybe... But... but...
[19:51:02] <Badaboom> err gnd
[19:51:18] <Hotroot> Badaboom: That was Ojerone, not me
[19:51:34] <Tom_itx> it also uses the old style 10 pin isp header
[19:51:38] <Badaboom> No i speaking of the other on from last night,, not u
[19:51:42] <Tom_itx> instead of the newer 6 pni
[19:51:43] <theBear> but but ? who wrote the leading usb stack for avrs and now works for atmel ? i coulda sworn i'd seen him around here :)
[19:51:45] <Tom_itx> pin
[19:51:50] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: It includes the 6-pin
[19:51:54] <Tom_itx> k
[19:52:03] <Tom_itx> not many use the 10 pin anymore
[19:52:04] <Hotroot> Even so, I cant do some of the Attiny's with it though
[19:52:04] <theBear> who makes the coolest and most versatile cheap programmer around ?
[19:52:13] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:52:23] <Hotroot> Or so I'm gathering?
[19:52:31] <Badaboom> anyone know where the include files are in studio 6,, i thought i had them in the rite place but "file not there"
[19:52:43] <Tom_itx> you can't do the xmega or the attiny 4 5 9 10 20 40
[19:52:49] <theBear> oh, the but but was about sampling maybe
[19:52:52] * R0b0t1 cudgels theBear with a large dildo
[19:53:00] <Tom_itx> Badaboom yeah they're there
[19:53:09] <Hotroot> Yeah, can't limit myself that much, mostly interested in ATTiny
[19:53:19] <R0b0t1> Tom_itx: I thought only the 4/5/9/10 had the restricted interface, 'cause they came in 6-pin versions.
[19:53:25] <Badaboom> Tom_itx: i go to compile and it keeps saying there not
[19:53:26] <R0b0t1> 20/40 are like 20-pin?
[19:53:32] <theBear> i feel strongly about this, there was a time when i could sample stuff at work without trouble, then a few million people lied/bent the truth to get a few free chips and a short few years later it's near impossible with many companies
[19:53:33] <Tom_itx> the 20 adn 40 use TPI i'm told too
[19:53:33] <R0b0t1> they're
[19:53:39] <R0b0t1> Hm
[19:54:22] <R0b0t1> theBear, what were they sampling? $100 ADCs?
[19:54:22] <Tom_itx> Badaboom, something got screwed up on the install then
[19:54:42] <Badaboom> hmm,, is there a path i can look for?
[19:55:05] <Badaboom> Im trying to add to it,, the regular ones are there
[19:55:08] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI1.jpg
[19:55:12] <Tom_itx> meet the attiny10
[19:55:38] <Tom_itx> Badaboom, i'm not sure.. i don't use studio 6.xx that much
[19:55:41] <theBear> all kinds of things, almost anything you can think of... the price is irrelevant, frivelous sampling makes things hard for those who are doing serious sampling
[19:55:43] <Tom_itx> takes too damn long to load
[19:55:49] <Badaboom> ok
[19:55:52] <Badaboom> lol
[19:55:56] <Badaboom> That it does
[19:56:18] <Tom_itx> i can look for them though if you hang on
[19:56:29] <Badaboom> ok,,ty
[19:56:34] <Tom_itx> on the other pc
[19:56:39] <R0b0t1> Tom_itx: What use have you found for the 6-piners?
[19:57:11] <Tom_itx> i did a adc to pwm thing with one for the heck of it
[19:57:28] <Tom_itx> good cheap interface chip
[19:57:41] <Tom_itx> if you don't need much io
[19:57:50] <Tom_itx> 16 bit timer
[19:57:54] <Tom_itx> 12mhz internal osc
[19:57:57] <Tom_itx> adc
[19:57:59] <Tom_itx> pwm
[19:58:01] <R0b0t1> theBear, I do not sample much, usually because buying devkit is simpler and easier, but when I do want a bare chip it is often useful to get one without needing to pay $10.
[19:58:17] <R0b0t1> theBear: The lack of DIP chips has cut down on a lot of sampling, I am sure.
[19:59:01] <theBear> probably, there are still very experienced hobbiests with chronic sampling habits... it only bothers me because it has affected me professionally more than a few times
[19:59:06] <R0b0t1> Microchip has a good system, you pay like $5 for up to six chips, they must have corporate subsidized shipping. I would not be opposed to that.
[19:59:14] <Tom_itx> R0b0t1, there's a siren program for one somebody wrote on my site for it
[19:59:27] <Badaboom> R0b0t1: Maxim is a pina these days for samples
[19:59:36] <Badaboom> err pita
[19:59:37] <R0b0t1> pina? pita?
[19:59:38] <R0b0t1> Ah
[19:59:40] <Badaboom> lol
[19:59:54] <theBear> pita collada eh
[19:59:59] <Badaboom> that too
[20:00:00] <theBear> heh, i like it
[20:00:17] <Tom_itx> Badaboom, what ver studio?
[20:00:20] <Tom_itx> 6 or 6.1
[20:00:35] <Badaboom> 6
[20:00:47] <Badaboom> wait,,
[20:00:51] <Badaboom> 6.1.2440
[20:01:51] <Tom_itx> there's a devices .xml directory
[20:01:56] <Tom_itx> with all them listed
[20:02:04] <Tom_itx> but i'm not sure about the headers
[20:02:04] <Badaboom> kk, one sec
[20:02:19] <Badaboom> lol,, and thats what i need to add is a header
[20:02:32] <R0b0t1> Tom_itx: Have a name?
[20:03:07] <R0b0t1> Badaboom: Not found much of a use for Maxim chips these days, they seem outdated.
[20:03:14] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/tiny10/
[20:03:20] <Tom_itx> it's in there somewhere
[20:03:41] <Badaboom> R0b0t1: yeah,, im kinda integrating an older display so i needed to use a 7219
[20:03:49] <theBear> maxim make a lot of different chips... they got a lot in the switching area, everything from supply controllers to all in ones to led drivers
[20:04:03] <tzanger> I missed the sampling thing, what's bitten you theBear ?
[20:04:33] <R0b0t1> One thing of theirs I did like was 8 channel, 7 remote temp sensor.
[20:04:34] <tzanger> Dallas semi and maxim were kings a decade ago, they made some neat stuff
[20:04:35] <Badaboom> I remember when maxim would send you tons of max232's
[20:04:41] <theBear> abuse of sample programs makes them harder/nonexistant for non-abusers to use
[20:04:49] <Badaboom> lol,, yep
[20:04:57] <theBear> 232's costed a fortune 10 years ago
[20:05:03] <Badaboom> yes they did
[20:05:08] <theBear> err, cost
[20:05:16] <tzanger> theBear: Professionally I've never used sampling. I used to be a sampling whore though, back when I was a student, had no money
[20:05:18] <Badaboom> i still have plenty <--Semi abuseer
[20:05:52] <theBear> you should send me some, i can't afford 232s or food
[20:06:08] <Badaboom> I have way more than ill ever use,, dip and all
[20:06:13] <tzanger> On semi seems to be taking over the stuff maxim came up with, the supervisors, sequencers and protective devices. That's on top of their very health discretes division
[20:07:31] <tzanger> I don't use max232s or any level converters now. Just ttl level uarts and I take the converters off USB serial ports to turn them into ttl level
[20:07:56] <Badaboom> nice
[20:07:59] <tzanger> I could just buy some breakouts from spark fun or use the ft232 cables but I never seem to
[20:08:01] <Tom_itx> i didn't find any device headers
[20:08:05] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Yours says it can fix misset fuses?
[20:08:14] <tzanger> On my own boards I just throw a ft232 on
[20:08:20] <Tom_itx> that's what the recovery clock is for
[20:08:24] <R0b0t1> Tom_itx: I like your etch tank, what are you using that stands up to the HCl/Cu mix?
[20:08:29] <Hotroot> Ah, nice
[20:08:38] <Tom_itx> the most common mistake for a noob is to set the fuses wrong for the external crystal
[20:08:59] <Tom_itx> they set it to external clock instead and the crystal won't oscillate
[20:09:13] <Badaboom> Ive never bricked an avr,, what??lol
[20:09:15] <Tom_itx> R0b0t1, plexiglaas
[20:09:25] <Tom_itx> i haven't either
[20:09:31] <Tom_itx> i've done it on purpose though
[20:09:34] <Tom_itx> for testing
[20:09:36] <Badaboom> lol
[20:09:43] <Badaboom> You recovered it i take it
[20:09:49] <Tom_itx> damn right
[20:09:52] <Badaboom> :)
[20:10:12] <tzanger> I've blown a few, but never bricked. That is what I got that stupid dragon for >:-(
[20:10:27] <Hotroot> So I assume most people make a special breadboard for reprogramming these? You add pins, then just wire them correctly, so you can plug and program?
[20:10:31] <Badaboom> ahh
[20:10:35] <R0b0t1> Tom_itx: Er, I meant the bubbler, sorry. If one were careful backflow would not be an issue, but accidents happen
[20:10:41] <Hotroot> (With reprogrammer I mean)
[20:10:51] <Tom_itx> oh the bubbler is a fishtank pump
[20:11:01] <Badaboom> Hotroot: Your kinda limited with a solderless breadboard
[20:11:08] <theBear> you're
[20:11:10] <Tom_itx> with holes poked in the regular fishtank hose
[20:11:16] <Badaboom> bear,, ty
[20:11:24] <theBear> :)
[20:11:30] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, i've got a breadboard adapter i'll toss in if you want one
[20:11:44] <Tom_itx> i bet i even have a pic of it
[20:12:13] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: To interface a chip with a programmer? Isn't that semi chip-specific?
[20:12:29] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_adapter_kit_desc.jpg
[20:12:38] <Tom_itx> use breadboard wires to connect them
[20:13:04] <Tom_itx> this just lets you plug the programmer into a spot on the breadboard
[20:13:28] <theBear> hmm, anyone got access to the old silicon chip site to dload a schem ?
[20:13:39] <Tom_itx> ok i've had enough. i'm gonna go restart the gd router. back in a few
[20:15:43] <tzanger> Im going to atmel's seminar in Toronto tomorrow
[20:15:44] <Hotroot> But you still need some kind of adapter between chip and programmer
[20:15:53] <tzanger> Getting a sam4 board as part of it
[20:16:11] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, that's what breadboard wires are for
[20:16:15] <theBear> if by adapter you mean wires
[20:16:15] <Hotroot> Do most people have a special board for that? I think I'm missing something, lol.
[20:16:20] <Badaboom> \0/
[20:16:24] <tzanger> Hotroot: Usually it's a 6 pin header and whatever kind of connector you can attach to it
[20:16:38] <tzanger> I use a cut up floppy drive cable
[20:16:47] <Badaboom> lol,, same here
[20:16:56] <theBear> mmmm, when i stick a chip on a veroboard i just wire the header to match my existing programmer connections
[20:17:20] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/breadboard_basic_side.jpg
[20:17:21] <Tom_itx> like that
[20:17:24] <Hotroot> Yeah. I'll probably just make a special BB piece for it
[20:17:32] <tzanger> For boards I make that are sold I have a test fixture I press the board in to. There are pogo pins that connect the ISP, power and whatever test points I need
[20:17:33] <Badaboom> Tom_itx: check this path and see if that seems rite
[20:17:39] <Badaboom> Atmel Studio 6.1\newfiletemplates\Assembler
[20:18:23] <Tom_itx> yeah but there's not much there
[20:18:29] <Badaboom> yeah
[20:18:35] <Hotroot> Alright, cool, that pic is comforting because that's what I was planning, haha
[20:18:57] <Hotroot> That separation in the middle of BB's is standard size for AVR's, right?
[20:19:00] <theBear> when i need comforting i like the picture with a kitty hanging off a branch that says "hang in there, baby"
[20:19:03] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, the adapter just lets you run wires to whatever pins you need to use
[20:19:05] <R0b0t1> tzanger, I wish companies hosted things in Kansas :\
[20:19:13] <Tom_itx> and you can leave it on the breadboard
[20:19:22] <R0b0t1> tzanger, KC is the hub of the midwest!
[20:19:48] <Horologium> R0b0t1, there was one or two some years back.
[20:20:09] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Alright, I think I get this now.
[20:20:19] <theBear> heh then they moved and they were all "we're not in kansas anymore"
[20:21:39] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, you can hook anything up to a breadboard you want: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/logger/logger_breadboard.jpg
[20:22:05] <Tom_itx> theBear, recognize the 'rif' programmer?
[20:22:19] * theBear clicks a few times
[20:22:38] <theBear> i do indeed
[20:22:41] <theBear> :)
[20:22:55] <Tom_itx> that's an old pic
[20:23:23] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Right, I just meant standard divider size
[20:23:35] <theBear> oooh, is that one of those incredibly fragile connectors on the side of the lcd ? i hate those things, stupid end clips always snap after a couple removals
[20:24:04] <tzanger> Yeah the tech on tour doesn't hit Kansas
[20:24:37] <Tom_itx> they're just scared of the tornados
[20:25:46] <Horologium> and the wicked witch.
[20:26:20] <Badaboom> max7219.h no such file or directory,, sigh
[20:26:28] <Badaboom> and i know its there
[20:26:47] <Tom_itx> give up and use winavr
[20:26:54] <Tom_itx> and pn
[20:26:59] <Badaboom> I have it istalled
[20:27:07] <Badaboom> n
[20:27:15] <Tom_itx> i got the recent one from atmel and installed it
[20:27:24] <Badaboom> hmm
[20:27:27] <Tom_itx> the one that comes with studio
[20:27:40] <Tom_itx> oh..
[20:27:44] <Badaboom> ?
[20:27:51] <Tom_itx> it actually supports attiny 10 etc with c now
[20:28:02] <Badaboom> rmmm'
[20:28:13] <Tom_itx> newer device support mainly
[20:28:53] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, so what you waitin for?
[20:28:56] <Badaboom> I feel like studio is hacking up my files like a cat
[20:29:27] <Tom_itx> i still use studio 4 for downloading and that's about it
[20:29:37] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Checking breadboard / chip pin divider sized
[20:29:41] <Hotroot> *sizes
[20:29:43] <Badaboom> I really liked the older ver,, but this thing
[20:29:43] <Tom_itx> i don't need all the bells and wistles
[20:29:49] <Tom_itx> whistles*
[20:30:58] <Hotroot> I see that some avr's are too wide to fit just on the divider, but do I run the risk of ATTiny's being too small to fit on a board without an adapter?
[20:31:19] <Tom_itx> not if they're dip
[20:31:21] <theBear> i've never seen a breadboard that the skinniest dips won't fit on
[20:31:43] <Hotroot> Alright, so anything with dip pins should work
[20:31:51] <Tom_itx> pretty much
[20:32:08] <Hotroot> Awesome
[20:32:18] <Tom_itx> atmega 168, 328 attiny13, 2313 are good ones
[20:32:21] <Hotroot> Will probably buy your programmer soon, although case + shipping price is a bummer
[20:32:23] <Tom_itx> to start
[20:32:33] <Tom_itx> oh you like the case?
[20:32:41] <Hotroot> Indeed
[20:32:50] <Tom_itx> most do lately for some reason
[20:32:57] <Hotroot> I hate bare chips
[20:33:06] <Hotroot> Like, large ones that have to sit around
[20:33:30] <Tom_itx> some have made cases for the other one
[20:33:40] <Tom_itx> i kinda like it myself
[20:33:46] <Tom_itx> over the blue one
[20:33:48] <Badaboom> I like bare naked,, oh wait,, sorry u said chips
[20:34:05] <theBear> heh
[20:34:10] <Hotroot> I like bear naked
[20:34:15] <Badaboom> ok
[20:34:19] <theBear> i woulda gone with big, but bare naked works
[20:34:20] <Tom_itx> tmi
[20:34:26] <Badaboom> lol
[20:34:44] <theBear> i like double meanings
[20:34:52] <Tom_itx> time to go r&r now...
[20:34:55] <Tom_itx> later
[20:34:59] <Badaboom> I think hell need a popup blocker
[20:35:02] <theBear> cya tom :)
[20:35:07] <Badaboom> cya Tom
[20:35:34] <theBear> for reference that was only a comedic choice, i have no particular preference, for err chip size :)
[20:36:35] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Cya. Probably going to buy your chip in a few.
[20:37:46] <Horologium> Tom_itx's shipping is horrid...took over a day to get my stuff from him!
[20:37:56] <Badaboom> lol
[20:37:58] <theBear> heh, that lazy bastard
[20:38:25] <Horologium> and he only included one freebie with it!
[20:38:31] <Hotroot> The shame
[20:38:36] <theBear> pfft ! who does he think he is ?
[20:38:50] <Horologium> I know, right?
[20:45:59] <theBear> hmm, just been considering... 'static electricity' is really just a makeshift capacitor methinks ?
[20:46:31] <Horologium> a capacitor is just a leyden jar.
[20:46:45] <Horologium> or versa visa.
[20:46:56] <theBear> i know what a cap is, i'm just considering the nature of what school teachers call static electricity
[20:47:10] <Horologium> it's mostly a misnomer.
[20:47:17] <theBear> exactly, which is why i'm thinking about it
[20:47:44] <theBear> it's obviously a large voltage differential, usually with some kind of plastic or other dialectric involved....
[20:47:55] <theBear> can be discharged or charged
[20:48:18] <theBear> so that really means it's a makeshift cap i think
[20:48:36] <Horologium> rubbing plastic with other materials to generate electricity is just another form of generation.
[20:48:50] <Horologium> it generates high voltage with low current generally.
[20:48:50] <theBear> yeah, but the way it sits/stays
[20:49:04] <Horologium> you can get the same effect with a flyback transformer.
[20:49:08] <Horologium> can charge things.
[20:49:24] <theBear> dammit, i know all this, just agree with me :)
[20:49:29] <Horologium> hehe.
[20:49:48] <Horologium> teaching of static electricity as something separate from other DC electricity is wrong!
[20:50:08] <Horologium> you are just using various devices to create capacitors to hold a charge basically.
[20:50:29] <theBear> well that's kinda what got me thinking, i was considering if it had a polarity, and noticed that of course it does, and with the dialectrics, yeah, a makeshift cap
[20:50:38] <theBear> a very poor one usually, but, cool
[20:51:33] <theBear> now i gotta consider my coffee grinder a bit harder, thinking i should be able to do something better than leaking/draining it with an opposite charge so the coffee doesn't jump all over the bench when i open the plexi-like container :)
[20:52:06] <theBear> tho i suppose if i can identify the 'other end' of the cap, just a wire would make it discharge in moments instead of minutes
[20:52:15] <jadew> anyone feeling like reading about SPI modes and giving some feedback? http://eenoob.com/home/post?id=3
[20:52:34] <theBear> it's kinda cool to watch, see how it avoids your hands etc and throws itself way across the bench, but kinda sucks to clean up :)
[20:52:38] <jadew> I'm a bit tired so the writting might suck, but I'm gonna re-read it tomorrow and maybe edit it a bit
[20:54:09] <Hotroot> theBear: I hadn't put it together that that effect was static =P
[20:54:09] <Badaboom> lol,, i just counted the max232's ...38
[20:54:29] <theBear> Hotroot, weren't you listening ? static electricity is a myth :)
[20:54:32] <Hotroot> Not being sarcastic, I just always figured it was air hitting it or something.
[20:55:03] <Hotroot> What I've always been interested in is static generators. Everyone makes projects to get rid of it, I want gloves that charge me.
[20:55:13] <theBear> but yeah, that's the idea, too much of the same charge, the coffee bits want to jump somewhere that isn't charged like that
[20:57:04] <theBear> van de graaf is a classic static generator, i can't think how gloves could possibly work, when you walk on a funny carpet in the right shoes and can make a spark by touching something, your shoes are the dialectric (usually) and your body comparatively is a conductor, and the ground under your shoes is a conductor, maybe replace conductor with plate
[20:57:25] <theBear> but the point being you want to generate a potential difference
[21:01:48] <R0b0t1> Horologium: Bother, I must need to keep a better eye out.
[21:03:10] <R0b0t1> jadew: I like the timing diagram!
[21:03:16] <R0b0t1> So it's a good start...
[21:03:27] <jadew> I didn't make that one lol
[21:03:36] <jadew> it says there it's from the atmega8 datasheet :P
[21:03:39] <R0b0t1> Oh, minor spelling mistakes IN THE FIRST SENTENCE
[21:03:45] <jadew> I'm fixing some of the wording
[21:03:54] <R0b0t1> and grammar
[21:03:57] <jadew> thanks, forgot to check the spelling
[21:04:10] <jadew> can't do anything about grammer, that's the best I can do
[21:04:17] <jadew> *grammar
[21:06:18] <jadew> alright, fixed the spelling
[21:06:37] <jadew> and removed something that was confusing, so please refresh if you're still reading
[21:08:08] <jadew> what are the grammar issues?
[21:11:08] <jadew> oh and any idea why the data lines are changing their IDLE state too, based on the mode? couldn't find any documentation on that, yet the behaviour seems to be consistent on this chip
[21:11:41] <R0b0t1> Uh, bus-free status?
[21:11:46] <R0b0t1> I am not well versed in SPI
[21:14:11] <jadew> yeah, when nothing is going on, I don't really mind it, but I find it odd that the state changes based on the mode of the sck line
[21:14:32] <jadew> I would have expected the data line to go to the same state every time
[21:14:35] <Badaboom> fml,, I cant believe its still saying file isnt there,, its rite there:(
[21:14:38] <jadew> low, high or tristate
[21:15:14] <dunz0r> Badaboom: Tried using #include "somefile.h" instead of #include <somefile.h> in case it's in a local folder?
[21:15:27] <jadew> Badaboom, what's the issue?
[21:15:31] <Badaboom> yeah,, still nothing
[21:15:49] <Badaboom> jadew: its not picking up the header file
[21:15:52] <Hotroot> Badaboom: On linux?
[21:16:04] <jadew> which one?
[21:16:14] <Badaboom> Hotroot: no Atmel Studio 6.1
[21:16:17] <jadew> same folder?
[21:16:46] <Badaboom> I added max7219.h to a folder i made for drivers
[21:17:14] <jadew> is that folder in the include path?
[21:17:51] <jadew> if not, you can specify the relative path in your include #include "drivers/max7219.h"
[21:18:01] <Badaboom> yeah i tried that:(
[21:18:09] <Badaboom> strangest thing ive ever seen
[21:18:21] <jadew> maybe there's a typo
[21:18:56] <Badaboom> yeah,, thats what i was looking for
[21:19:57] <Badaboom> nope,, it even gives me the file in the dropdown
[21:20:08] <jadew> code?
[21:20:15] <jadew> show us the #include line
[21:20:22] <Hotroot> Was going to suggest permissions on linux. Don't think Windows does it like that.
[21:20:49] <theBear> if it's ntfs permissions could kill it
[21:21:04] <theBear> which most windows is last i checked
[21:21:11] <Badaboom> hmm
[21:21:22] <jadew> code dude
[21:21:29] <jadew> paste the #include line in here
[21:21:36] <dunz0r> Badaboom: Could be something like syntax errors in the file, causing it to skip the file or something.
[21:21:51] <jadew> the error would be completely different in that case
[21:30:41] <Badaboom> wow,, so i changed the name to just 7219 and still the same thing:(
[22:09:53] <tzanger> What does the line say for include? Is the path in your gcc -I list?
[22:27:18] <Hotroot> If I get an ATMega328p with an Arduino bootloader, I assume I can just overwrite that with a MKII if I feel like it, right?
[22:28:11] <theBear> i dunno what a mkii is, but yeah
[22:28:43] <Hotroot> The programmer Tom makes
[22:28:47] <Hotroot> USBTiny Mkii
[22:32:18] <theBear> oh i dunno, you could definately program the code onto it, but not sure what pins are/aren't exposed or connected to other things on an arduino
[22:32:33] <theBear> and it'd be kinda a waste of a big board like that just for a programmer
[22:33:52] <Hotroot> theBear: ? I just mean if I wanted to run Arduino examples on the thing
[22:34:06] <Hotroot> I could get it like that, then remove the bootloader if I dislike having it there
[22:34:56] <theBear> you want the bootloader, otherwise you'll have to wire up a 'traditional' programmer to reprogram it, you can pretty much ignore the bootloader, it just sits there idle until you want to program via usb, then it helps you out, and sits idle until nexttime
[22:35:19] <theBear> also i'm not sure how toms programmer connects to usb, it may well need different wiring to how arduino do it
[22:36:26] <Hotroot> theBear: Even if the bootloader is totally messed up, I thought his would work
[22:36:39] <jadew> I didn't catch the whole discussion, but it should work
[22:36:49] <jadew> what chip do you have on the arduino?
[22:37:05] <Hotroot> It's the Mega328
[22:37:10] <jadew> dip?
[22:37:13] <R0b0t1> You probably want a programmer as well
[22:37:30] <R0b0t1> I tend to use bootloaders for development, but when you buy blank chips they usually don't have one on them.
[22:37:49] <Hotroot> I don't actually have the Arduino, I'm just doing a little electronics kit with someone that assumes Arduino, so worst case scenario I want to be able to run everything Arduino style
[22:37:52] <R0b0t1> You CAN use an arduino as an ISP programmer though
[22:38:01] <Hotroot> R0b0t1: Yeah, I'm getting Tom's programmer
[22:38:16] <jadew> Hotroot, if you'll get a programmer you don't have to worry about screwing up
[22:38:20] <Hotroot> That can program no matter how F'd the bootloader gets right?
[22:38:21] <Hotroot> Ah, okay
[22:38:41] <Hotroot> So I might as well get it with the Duino loader
[22:38:44] <jadew> even if the connectors don't match or something, you can still easily wire it up
[22:39:32] <R0b0t1> Well don't set the fuse to use reset as IO
[22:39:35] <R0b0t1> then you need HV programming
[22:39:43] <jadew> yeah
[22:39:46] <Hotroot> R0b0t1: Tom's can reset apparently
[22:39:48] <R0b0t1> I still kind of want HV programmer, and one that can do TPI :\
[22:39:51] <R0b0t1> Hmm
[22:39:54] <R0b0t1> I might buy his.
[22:40:05] <Hotroot> 328 is a pretty solid mega chip right? Standard enough?
[22:40:10] <jadew> tom's does HV?
[22:40:17] <jadew> Hotroot, yep
[22:40:17] <R0b0t1> Yeah.
[22:40:21] <Hotroot> jadew: It can reset
[22:40:25] <Hotroot> Alright, cool
[22:40:34] <R0b0t1> Also attiny25/45/85, if you don't need a mega.
[22:40:47] <jadew> or tiny2313
[22:41:01] <Hotroot> Well, mega for testing stuff now, with the Uno kit
[22:42:59] <sabesto> HV programmer, why?
[22:43:21] <jadew> to recover from RESET being set as IO
[22:43:41] <R0b0t1> sabesto, I'd like to use reset on attiny parts sometimes
[22:43:48] <Hotroot> R0b0t1: Yeah, looking at them too, but for now I'll go with something big as I'm just developing
[22:43:48] <dunz0r> Or from setting the no-program-bit
[22:43:54] <dunz0r> Can't remember what it's called.
[22:44:01] <R0b0t1> PROTECT?
[22:44:12] <sabesto> ispen or something
[22:44:16] <R0b0t1> Oh yeah
[22:44:33] <jadew> R0b0t1, there was a guy here like last week, willing to sell his dragon
[22:44:33] <sabesto> never fealt the need to use hv
[22:44:49] <sabesto> i got 2 i dont use
[22:44:54] <jadew> rickta59
[22:45:10] <Hotroot> Are there revisions in the chips themselves? I noticed Sparkfun's 328 datasheet is from 2009 when Atmel's is 2012
[22:45:34] <jadew> Hotroot, check the datasheet, there's an erata at the bottom
[22:45:45] <jadew> it tells you what got fixed in which revision
[22:45:50] <R0b0t1> jadew: mmmm maybe
[22:46:33] <jadew> R0b0t1, I'm sure it's not that big of a deal to put on together tho
[22:46:41] <Hotroot> They don't say when the fixes happened =/
[22:46:45] <jadew> is it still using the ISP protocol?
[22:47:18] <jadew> Hotroot, they do say the revision number tho, so you can ask the guys you're buying from
[22:47:38] <jadew> altho, getting an empty chip and programming it yourself is much nicer, since the first times is always a pain
[22:50:21] <Hotroot> jadew: Is it something to actually worry about, or should I just assume Sparkfun would change them out if they had a problem?
[22:51:03] <jadew> don't assume that :)
[22:51:18] <jadew> I don't think there are any distributors who would do that
[22:51:33] <jadew> actually, if they would find a lower revision that's 1 cent cheapper, they'd get that
[22:53:31] <Casper> 1 cent cheaper can mean huge profit
[22:54:40] <Hotroot> Any way to tell revision from the page?
[22:55:01] <jadew> if it's mentioned, yeah
[22:55:11] <theBear> like duty free "the more you buy, the more you save" <grin> i love sales fallacies
[22:55:28] <jadew> lol
[22:55:33] <Tom_itx> R0b0t1, Hotroot, mine doesn't do HVPP but you can get an adapter for it to reset the reset fuse on the tiny 4 5 9 10 etc
[22:56:04] <R0b0t1> oic
[22:56:06] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: So it can't reset the megas?
[22:56:22] <Tom_itx> if you screw up the clock fuses it can
[22:56:45] <Tom_itx> it has a recovery clock to help you clock it so you can reset them
[22:56:52] <Hotroot> Oh
[22:56:59] <Tom_itx> don't confuse yourselves so much
[22:57:31] <Hotroot> I'm plenty confused with this reseller revision Errata bullshit =P
[22:57:34] <Tom_itx> if you read the data sheets and follow good advice you will likely never need HVPP
[22:57:50] <sabesto> its not like the chips dont work
[22:58:13] <Tom_itx> Hotroot, what do you mean?
[22:58:28] <Hotroot> Tom_itx: Some 328's have flaws, not sure what revision Spark has
[22:58:47] <Tom_itx> that was a long time back
[22:58:54] <Tom_itx> they got a batch of junk chips
[22:59:07] <Tom_itx> if that's what you're talking about
[22:59:24] <Tom_itx> i order my chips from mouser or digikey
[22:59:44] <Hotroot> Spark is charging overhead up the ass on it anyway
[23:00:40] <Hotroot> ATMEGA328P-PU The P is picoPower, then PU is pin style right?
[23:00:52] <Tom_itx> i believe so yes
[23:01:02] <Tom_itx> PU is dip iirc
[23:01:14] <Hotroot> Yeah, it looks right. Just making sure it's breadboard compatible
[23:01:27] <Tom_itx> that's also in the chip datasheet
[23:01:35] <Tom_itx> near the back
[23:03:22] <Hotroot> Well it shows a pic. This is Bread compatible right? http://bit.ly/16B10zH
[23:03:31] <Tom_itx> the 48 88 168 328 are all in the same chip family having the same features
[23:03:45] <Tom_itx> 28 dip?
[23:04:01] <Hotroot> Just making sure before I order all this stuff =P
[23:04:28] <Tom_itx> yep
[23:04:44] <Tom_itx> you might want to get a couple external crystals and caps for them as well
[23:04:47] <Tom_itx> that's up to you
[23:04:55] <Tom_itx> they all have internal osc to start
[23:05:08] <Tom_itx> but you can change the clock source
[23:05:21] <Tom_itx> and that's what usually gets noobs
[23:05:45] <Tom_itx> and that's what my programmer helps recover from
[23:05:45] <Hotroot> I don't really care about overclocking them
[23:05:53] <Tom_itx> not overclocking
[23:06:04] <Hotroot> Oh
[23:06:12] <Tom_itx> they're rated for 20 mhz but the internal osc probably only is 8mhz
[23:06:27] <Tom_itx> and with ckdiv8 fuse set, will start up at 1Mhz
[23:06:33] <Tom_itx> by default
[23:06:40] <Tom_itx> *probably*
[23:07:42] <Tom_itx> so if you want to run them higher you need an external crystal or oscillator
[23:08:01] <Hotroot> Just to run at regular speed? =/
[23:08:16] <Tom_itx> 'regular' speed would be 8mhz
[23:08:22] <Tom_itx> more than likely
[23:08:26] <Hotroot> I'm fine with 8MHz right now
[23:08:38] <jadew> the internal oscillator sucks too
[23:08:44] <jadew> it drifts a lot
[23:08:47] <Hotroot> Damn, I like Mouser more but shipping vs Spark would make it not worth it
[23:08:59] <jadew> where are you from?
[23:08:59] <Tom_itx> they always ship them at the lowest common denominator for a clock rate which usually is 1Mhz
[23:09:14] <Hotroot> jadew: It's cheap, but I'm getting a little kit from Spark
[23:09:22] <Tom_itx> what kit?
[23:09:52] <jadew> I like kits, I just never found one to suit my needs
[23:10:02] <Tom_itx> brb
[23:10:06] <Hotroot> I'm going to buy the parts separately because I don't want the Uno
[23:10:08] <Hotroot> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11227
[23:10:20] <Tom_itx> ebay also has arduino cheap
[23:10:26] <Hotroot> But if I can't find those exact parts elsewhere, I gotta get them from Spark
[23:10:38] <jadew> holly fuck, that's expensive
[23:10:42] <Hotroot> Yeah
[23:11:01] <Hotroot> Going to do some of this stuff with my father, and he really likes the kit
[23:11:11] <jadew> Hotroot, where are you from?
[23:11:13] <Hotroot> I would rather have a programmer than a Duino though
[23:11:19] <Hotroot> jadew: Cali
[23:11:37] <jadew> cali as in CA, USA?
[23:12:02] <Hotroot> Yes
[23:12:09] <jadew> then you should find stuff super cheap...
[23:12:25] <jadew> isn't digikey an option?
[23:12:46] <Badaboom> wow,, a . a friggin .
[23:12:51] <Badaboom> that was it
[23:13:00] <Hotroot> jadew: Yeah, but I need those exact Spark parts
[23:13:11] <jadew> why those exact ones?
[23:13:20] <Badaboom> then my system locked up
[23:13:36] <jadew> + you can find pretty much all of them on digikey, I'm sure
[23:13:55] <Hotroot> It has a nice little booklet that makes everything very obvious what to do
[23:13:57] * Badaboom wants to marry digikey
[23:14:06] <Hotroot> It's all exactly pre-made so you can't fuck it up
[23:14:17] <Hotroot> And there are pre-defined goals
[23:14:39] <jadew> ah, I see
[23:16:42] <Badaboom> lol,, i get my circuit and code running and the empire strikes back comes on pandora
[23:17:23] <jadew> pandora.com?
[23:17:27] <Casper> Badaboom: that's a bad sign
[23:17:32] <Badaboom> no im using my cell:)
[23:17:41] <Badaboom> Casper: yeah i was thinking that
[23:17:47] <jadew> oh man... I miss pandora, it's not available in eu
[23:17:55] <Casper> not avail in .ca too
[23:17:57] <Badaboom> ahh thats rite
[23:18:18] <Casper> it's sad... the entertainement industry do everything to force us to go on pirated stuff
[23:18:27] <Badaboom> lol
[23:18:35] <Badaboom> But its funner this way
[23:18:43] <jadew> yeah, the problem here is that the service was great :)
[23:18:44] <Casper> netflix? yeah, it have a good selection... but almost nothing in french.. and quite limited compared to the US version
[23:18:51] <Hotroot> VPN?
[23:18:53] <Casper> no pandora, no hulu
[23:18:58] <Badaboom> wow
[23:19:15] <jadew> I don't think hulu even shows up in the search results in here lol
[23:19:24] <Casper> relativelly lots of official content blocked on youtube
[23:19:30] <jadew> yep
[23:19:35] <Badaboom> sad
[23:19:35] <jadew> it's insane
[23:20:13] <Casper> it's funny, because the same content is available here, from the same compagny
[23:20:23] <Casper> so there is no reason to block them
[23:20:48] <Badaboom> oh crap,, its stuck on 99,, code is a little off:)
[23:20:48] <jadew> it's a mind game
[23:21:02] <jadew> they just want to piss you off
[23:21:13] <Badaboom> can u stream thru teamspeak?
[23:21:19] <Badaboom> i heard u could
[23:21:24] <Badaboom> on the ts3 that is
[23:21:34] <Casper> but I'm actually looking for an openvpn on udp port 53
[23:21:40] <jadew> there are simpler solutions
[23:21:55] <Casper> too lazy to set up one here
[23:21:56] <jadew> Casper, for pandora there used to be globalpandora.com but for some reason they don't accept paypal anymore
[23:22:05] <Hotroot> Casper: AirVPN lets you use whatever port you want I think
[23:22:11] <Badaboom> can someone have a look at at datasheet for me?
[23:22:23] <Casper> Hotroot: need to be openvpn
[23:22:29] <Hotroot> Casper: Yeah
[23:22:37] <jadew> Casper, why udp?
[23:22:41] <Hotroot> They only support OpenVPN
[23:22:41] <Casper> for my iphone...
[23:22:41] <jadew> and isn't that port for dns?
[23:22:55] <jadew> IIRC DNS worked on UDP too
[23:23:04] <Casper> jadew: because there is only a few open port: udp/53, proxied tcp/80 and 443
[23:23:05] <Casper> that's it
[23:23:18] <Casper> all the rest is blocked
[23:23:25] <jadew> wow...
[23:23:28] <Casper> I don't have a data plan, but an unlimited web browsing plan
[23:23:46] <jadew> how much do you pay for it?
[23:23:57] <Casper> 10$/month
[23:24:22] <jadew> I don't think this kind of practice is even legal
[23:24:32] <Badaboom> so wait,, pandora is also blocked through cell?
[23:24:39] <Casper> almost everything work, except push notification and the download of apps on the appstore
[23:24:47] <jadew> because they're not providing "more service" for more money, they would just stop crippling your current service
[23:24:59] <Casper> it's sadly legal
[23:25:19] <Casper> I suspect that the appstore that don't work is actually a misconfiguration
[23:25:27] <Casper> caching proxy
[23:25:35] <jadew> is that a mobile plan?
[23:25:56] <Casper> since the packages are encrypted, it probably cached someone else's copy, meaning that when it try to install it fail the validation
[23:25:57] <Casper> yes
[23:26:02] <Tom_itx> that kit sure seems like alot
[23:26:05] <Casper> pay as you go
[23:26:17] <jadew> ah, that explains why port 53
[23:26:27] <Hotroot> Casper: AirVPN also lets you remote port forward if that helps your circumvention
[23:26:33] <Casper> 25 cents/min, 10$/month unlimited web browsing, 0.75$/month 911
[23:26:42] <Hotroot> Jeez, Mouser has the assiest looking breadboards
[23:26:46] <Casper> so quite cheap
[23:26:59] <jadew> Casper, if you can't configure openvpn to go trough 53, you can most deffinitely write a proxy for it
[23:27:10] <jadew> you make it connect to localhost:sometcpport
[23:27:23] <jadew> and you forward the data trough UDP to to your server
[23:27:23] <Badaboom> Hotroot: assiest?
[23:27:27] <Casper> jadew: I sure can, just need to find or set up one on port udp53
[23:27:33] <Tom_itx> piezo, cds, few resistors, relay, motor all stuff you can scavange from old electronics
[23:27:34] <Hotroot> Yeah, they look awful compared to Sparks
[23:27:38] <Casper> I'm just too lazy to set it up :D
[23:27:50] <Badaboom> Tom_itx: its working
[23:27:57] <Tom_itx> what was it?
[23:28:08] <Tom_itx> goin to sleep here
[23:28:09] <Badaboom> I found the problem with the .h file
[23:28:12] <jadew> Casper, what OS?
[23:28:59] <Casper> on the phone? ios of course... on the pc? linux (openwrt on the router, gentoo on pc, xp in vmware (soon to be replaced by 7))
[23:29:23] <jadew> got it so you already have openvpn on the router
[23:30:45] <Badaboom> Tom_itx: an added .
[23:30:53] <Badaboom> can u believe it
[23:31:06] <Casper> I don't have it installed
[23:31:13] <Casper> but I guess I could install it
[23:31:28] <Casper> ... I'll do when I'll reformat the router :D
[23:31:51] <Casper> maybe this week end... IF... IF I have time....
[23:32:14] <Casper> ... working 5 days at work, then 1 day at my cousin's house... then the last day I go out take photos...
[23:34:18] <Casper> and google can be funny
[23:34:27] <Casper> I reported some map errors
[23:34:35] <Casper> some of them took 2 months to get fixed
[23:34:43] <Casper> the last one took 12 hours
[23:41:24] <R0b0t1> Casper, after verifying your previous reports they may have acted more quickly on your most recent one.
[23:41:54] <Casper> R0b0t1: or maybe it was just an easier one
[23:42:10] <Casper> the last one was that the address wasn't at the right place
[23:42:14] <jadew> "my town is not on the map"
[23:42:15] <Casper> wrong street corner
[23:42:26] <Casper> they just had to street view and zoom in