Back
[01:23:30] <mastaa> how can I calculate siphon flow rate?
[01:26:31] <Casper> wrong channel
[02:00:29] <Valen> I presume the regular pipe equations given head, pipe dia and quality etc would apply
[02:03:50] <Casper> standard flow dynamics
[02:04:41] <MrTrick> anyone here use an AVR Dragon? I'm wondering whether it's possible to set up a serial console through it?
[02:05:03] <Roklobsta> i have a dragoon
[02:05:20] <Roklobsta> but, only use it for jtag and occasional isp
[02:05:48] <MrTrick> I'm loving debugWire, but I miss being able to set up 'printf' statements...
[02:06:09] <MrTrick> If I need a little standalone serial usb adapter, so be it, but integrated would be nifty.
[02:06:28] <Roklobsta> i don't know much aboujt the innards of gdb. does it let you do printf out the jtag? Ages ago I had a TI DSP JTAG debug tool that let me do all kinds of file stuff over jtag.
[02:06:53] <Roklobsta> it was slow but worked.
[02:07:13] <MrTrick> I'd rather not use jtag, just on account of how many pins are needed and that I've already got ISP wired in.
[02:07:32] <Roklobsta> i don't think the dragin will let you do it.
[02:07:52] <Valen> I just started using the dragon
[02:08:07] <Valen> I'd like to be able to send a reset without re-flashing the chip ;->
[02:08:10] <Roklobsta> i have in the past taken USB RS232 devices and bypassed the level shifter chip so i could interface to the 3.3V serial directly
[02:08:29] <MrTrick> okay then. Any recommendations for a good USB -> TTL serial adaptor? I guess I just have to wire RX, TX, GND?
[02:08:32] <Roklobsta> valen: oh, um, ever heard of a 'button'?
[02:09:09] <Valen> Roklobsta: thats awesome!
[02:09:20] <Valen> if only the PCB i was working on was bigger than my thumbnail
[02:09:53] <Roklobsta> Valen: obviously you are a brain in a jar with no hands and can only use the power of through to effect a reset via software.
[02:09:56] <MrTrick> Valen: How about putting the PCB in a microwave oven? When you need it reset, just put it on for 5 seconds. Induced electromagnetic reset.
[02:09:57] <Roklobsta> thought
[02:09:59] <MrTrick> ;-P
[02:10:30] <Valen> I have the dragon sitting there wired up, it can hit reset as a part of programming
[02:10:44] <Roklobsta> here's a bunch of CMOS/TTL USB cables.
http://www.glynstore.com/categories/USB-Converter-Cables/
[02:10:51] <Valen> how dare i consider the possibility of asking it to toggle the reset line without flashing the chip
[02:10:53] <Roklobsta> just find your local FTDI distributor to get them
[02:11:43] <MrTrick> Valen: can't you wire a button into the 6-pin ISP cable, actually? Eg to short the reset line to ground, or something like that?
[02:12:03] <Roklobsta> valen: i dare
[02:12:15] <Roklobsta> i mean how dare you
[02:12:28] <Valen> I probably could, I was just hoping there was a avrdude --reset-only floating about
[02:12:29] <Roklobsta> what is the board? an arduino?
[02:12:51] <Valen> they are bigger than my thumbnail
[02:13:16] <Valen> its a custom board for a product I'm making
[02:13:46] <Valen> it has a tiny84a on it
[02:13:49] <Roklobsta> i think you're SOL if yo ucan't get at the reset signal
[02:14:57] <Valen> the dragon is wired up to it, its programming it fine, i was merely inquiring to the possibilities of resetting it without re-flashing
[02:15:13] <Valen> much as MrTrick was curious about a serial connection
[02:15:20] <Valen> one of those would be nice too
[02:16:01] <Roklobsta> oh hey, avr has reset onthe ISP line... sooo...
[02:16:56] <Roklobsta> so yes, avardude should have an 'avrdude --resetonly' option
[02:17:49] <Valen> *gasp*
[02:18:26] <MrTrick> (fwiw, I've been told repeatedly that a Dare Iced Coffee(tm) will fix it)
[02:18:37] <Roklobsta> i said it should but appears to no.
[02:18:54] <Roklobsta> valen: i shall see if I can add a pacth in to do just that.
[02:19:01] <Valen> looks like the closest would be to do a -n (no write) and no erase
[02:19:03] <Roklobsta> i have another patch i need to submit.
[02:19:12] <Roklobsta> ok try that
[02:19:23] <Roklobsta> are you using liunix?
[02:19:35] <Valen> yes, but right now i need to mow the lawn
[02:20:22] <Roklobsta> ew, personal grooming updates should't be on #avr
[02:23:36] <Valen> turns out mowers work better with petrol than without
[02:24:01] <Roklobsta> i'll attest to that.
[02:24:04] <Valen> back to nasa's C style guide
[02:24:38] <Roklobsta> it's autumn so my lawn is being somewhat slow
[02:24:40] <Valen> I'll be replacing the "line trimmer" with an electric one
[02:24:51] <Valen> brb
[02:24:53] <Roklobsta> just don't trim the cord
[02:31:48] <theBear> eff that ! masters iced coffee is the only way to go !
[02:42:49] <Roklobsta> Valen: how'd the avrdude reset go?
[03:41:56] <Valen> where would I find 2mm blank pcb?
[03:43:33] <Roklobsta> jaycar?
[03:44:37] <Valen> 1.6
[03:45:31] <skroon> hi all
[03:45:55] <Roklobsta> ah
[03:52:06] <vsync_> theBear: irish coffee is the only coffee with what to kick off a day
[03:53:03] <theBear> i didn't say to kick off a day, i said iced coffee (premixed-ed)
[03:54:05] <theBear> i can't wait for a time when i can afford to REALLY be an alcaholic again... this sobering up while you sleep and for the morning thing gets me down
[04:08:03] <Vutral> hm
[06:48:52] <skroon> how does AVR represent negative numbers? two's compliment?
[06:49:52] <skroon> s/i/e/
[06:50:40] <Rikus1> yes
[06:52:51] <skroon> I was trying to look for it, but googling only added some confusion because I saw people saying differently, so thanks
[06:53:05] <skroon> what would have been the best source to check for this?
[07:04:00] <RikusW> avr instruction set reference maybe
[07:04:31] <theBear> mmm, i ain't been able to think of anything an avr datasheet can't answer yet, and i been at this around 10 years now
[07:08:34] <eatyourguitar> whats a cheap avr with a one channel 10bit DAC built in?
[07:08:45] <eatyourguitar> 10bit or better
[07:11:02] <Valen> tiny24a can be had pretty cheap
[07:11:46] * eatyourguitar checks it out
[07:14:07] <eatyourguitar> looks like 10bit ADC PWM out
[07:14:18] <eatyourguitar> I need 10bit DAC
[07:15:52] <Valen> oh dac sorry
[07:21:30] <Roamin> Can i run a atmega32u2 at 3.3v with a 16mhz resonator? The datasheet says maximum frequency at 2.7v is 8mhz , would the 16 mhz resonator just run half duty, or must i really use a 8mhz resonator?
[07:23:38] <skroon> theBear: that's rather longtime indeed :-)
[07:24:15] <skroon> what's the smalles/cheapest AVR which works with gcc-avr? (not with some clever tricks I mean)
[07:29:43] <Horologium> skroon, attiny13, attiny28,
[07:29:59] <Horologium> Roamin, if it says it won't run at 16mhz at 2.7v then it won't run at that.
[07:30:22] <Horologium> there is no half duty on a resonator...it resonates at its set frequency.
[07:30:57] <Horologium> and on that note, off to work.
[07:31:41] <Roamin> thanks , i guess i'll use the internal RC to run a 3.3v instead
[07:32:22] <theBear> 3.3!=2.7 .... what does the datasheet say about 3.3v ?
[07:36:04] <Tom_itx> Roamin, parts of the chip are powered off 5v anyway if you look at the data sheet closely
[07:36:29] <Tom_itx> it has an internal 3.3v reg and option to run at 3.3v while vbus is still at 5v
[07:42:29] <Roamin> it does? I need to communicate with 2 3.3v spi busses , an accelerometer (kxtia-1006) which i've connected using diodes and resistors to bring the levels from 5v to 3.3v , which all works fine, but when trying the same tricks on a ad7147 it just doesnt seem to want to respond anything, so my next step was to try running the avr directly on 3.3v to see if it was the signal levels that are a problem. I'm using schottky diodes on the ad7147 to bring the VIL to abou
[07:44:10] <Roamin> ok i found the register with the 3.3v regulator, enabling that bit will set the outputs to 3.3v, is that what it means?
[07:45:40] <RikusW> Roamin: 32u2 seems to work at 3v3 and 16MHz, though not recommended
[07:46:02] <RikusW> thats why CKDIV8 fuse are set by default
[07:46:44] <RikusW> a 16MHz crystal works fine at 3v3, with say clock/2 = 8MHz
[07:48:44] <Tom_itx> there are different ways to route the power pins as well so look it over closely
[07:57:16] <Tom_itx> section 20.3
[07:58:15] <Tom_itx> figure 20.2 Operating modes versus frequency and power-supply
[07:59:17] <Tom_itx> 8 Mhz
[07:59:28] <Tom_itx> @ 3.3v
[08:00:56] <Tom_itx> Roamin, in answer to your original question. No
[08:01:10] <Roamin> :)
[08:04:06] <Roamin> who would of thought that interfacing a cap to touch sensor would be more complicated than an accelerometer :( I'm just trying to read the ad7147's device id register ( 0x017h ) to make sure i am able to communicate properly, but i am unsure if i set it up correctly or if it even requires to be completely setup before i can read anything. Just sending the command word, with the register address doesnt seem to return anything.. But isnce
[08:04:36] <Roamin> but since i convert levels , i want to try with a real 3.3v powered mcu with no level converstio
[08:05:03] <Roamin> conversion to test my communication. Thanks for the help , i'll lurk around in case i have more questions later..
[08:12:32] <Tom_itx> Valen, do any of the regular 8bit avr's have DAC?
[08:12:36] <Tom_itx> xmega do
[08:15:44] <twnqx> any, if you attach one via spi \o/
[08:15:51] * twnqx runs
[08:16:15] <Tom_itx> <eatyourguitar> whats a cheap avr with a one channel 10bit DAC built in?
[08:16:23] * Tom_itx slaps twnqx
[08:16:43] <twnqx> too slow
[08:16:45] <eatyourguitar> I did find some after all but the packages are small
[08:16:54] <eatyourguitar> and they are pricey too
[08:16:56] <twnqx> atmel doesn't have small packages
[08:16:57] <eatyourguitar> like $5
[08:17:03] <eatyourguitar> SMD
[08:17:19] <eatyourguitar> soic24 is the least difficult
[08:17:39] <eatyourguitar> qfp vq** no thanks
[08:17:43] <eatyourguitar> bga nope
[08:17:45] <eatyourguitar> not for me
[08:17:54] <twnqx> vqfp is easy
[08:17:58] <Tom_itx> qfp is no harder than soic
[08:18:11] <eatyourguitar> its square
[08:18:18] <twnqx> bga is the only on that list i didn't do yet
[08:18:21] <twnqx> ... so?
[08:18:23] * Tom_itx gives eatyourguitar a round chip
[08:18:34] <twnqx> you solder on 4 sides instead of 2, what's the difference
[08:18:40] <twnqx> Tom_itx: THAT would be funny
[08:18:42] <eatyourguitar> you need a special chair that turns 360 while you work
[08:18:57] <eatyourguitar> and another person to push the chair around the table
[08:19:02] <twnqx> Tom_itx: you think we can ask atmel for a special edition series? :D
[08:19:09] <theBear> so what kinda chair you use for soic then ?
[08:19:20] <theBear> i just use a regular one
[08:19:43] <eatyourguitar> I'm just being ignorant sorry
[08:20:13] <ptrkOP> Theoretical question. If I write code for one of the AVRs that can be recognized as a HID keyboard.. how would I make it so that the keys it simulates are changeable without rewriting the firmware
[08:20:41] <twnqx> use the eeprom
[08:20:58] <theBear> ptrkOP, some kinda input, maybe with pre-coded sets of keys, or something more complex that allows arbitrary settings of keys, perhaps at boottime
[08:21:02] <twnqx> or, if the flash is partially reprogrammable and has self programming, use that
[08:21:29] <ptrkOP> What if it was a product. And the user wants to change it. How could I change it from the user's OS side (like a configuration utility)
[08:21:41] <Tom_itx> random assigned keys. what a concept
[08:22:08] <twnqx> ptrkOP: i'd use a second usb endpoint
[08:22:20] <Tom_itx> you're opening a bag of worms asking a user to update something
[08:22:40] <theBear> what kinda product is it ? is it a usb-capable avr ?
[08:24:04] <ptrkOP> Liek I said this is just high level thinking. Lets say I want to make some type of input device (that isn't a keyboard) act like one. So for example lets say I want water level sensors to eventually act like two arbituaary keyboard keys
[08:24:35] <ptrkOP> How could I make it so the user changes what keyboard keys it simulates
[08:25:05] <theBear> at a high level, i think we've just mentioned all the possible approaches
[08:25:38] <ptrkOP> Can I write to eeprom without programmer?
[08:25:46] <ptrkOP> could a userland application do that
[08:26:12] <RikusW> yes
[08:26:15] <theBear> userland application ? there is no userland in an avr
[08:26:17] <RikusW> even to flash
[08:26:32] <RikusW> firmware can write to both flash and eeprom
[08:27:11] <twnqx> the userland (PC) application could with the help of a second usb endpoint
[08:28:14] <theBear> can't see why it couldn't over hid, i don't know hid backwards but it can at least write the 3 leds, that can either be abused, or most likely includes room for about 6.5 more bits in the protocol
[08:29:01] <theBear> if you only want a couple of options, something like a jumper or dipswitch is much much simpler
[08:29:11] <theBear> even a handful of them
[08:29:26] <twnqx> true
[08:30:05] <ptrkOP> Well I want it to be able to literally be any key on a keyboard
[08:30:36] <theBear> 101key ? two 7bit dipswitches could cover that for 2 possible outputs
[08:31:46] <ptrkOP> There has to be a software solution. That seems to clunky. For example, I work with industrial networking devices at work. They have a application you can use to configure them over ethernet/rs232
[08:32:28] <theBear> there's a whole bunch of software solutions... we just mentioned several of them, if you want you could add ethernet or serial to achieve the same things, but that's beyond clunky, dipswitches are direct
[08:32:29] <Tom_itx> and they likely use a bigger chip like arm
[08:33:25] <ptrkOP> I gotcha. Thanks for all the help. I will look into it and come back if I have specific implementation problems
[08:33:33] <megal0maniac> The hell?
[08:33:46] <megal0maniac> Gentoo now has a GUI? :/
[08:34:10] <theBear> err, make sense
[08:34:21] <theBear> it never had and never will have a gui, it's a distribution, of sorts
[08:34:58] <megal0maniac> Last I remember, it was a tiny base image, a week of downloading portage, kernel config, setting cflags and such. I just downloaded a Gentoo DVD and BAM! There was KDE
[08:35:06] <theBear> yet in the err, 9 or 10 years i been using it, i had a gui on almost every install
[08:35:07] * Tom_itx gets theBear's soapbox out
[08:35:26] <theBear> pfft dvd, those a for kids, minimal install cd is what real users use
[08:35:56] <megal0maniac> That's what I remember of it :)
[08:35:59] <theBear> plus it's TINY, which is a bonus, you don't need an extra gig or two for a gui install
[08:36:10] <megal0maniac> Kernel? Build your own damn kernel!
[08:36:29] <theBear> and you initial statement was supposed to say "Gentoo install dvd now has a gui?"
[08:36:42] <megal0maniac> This is true
[08:36:51] <theBear> Tom_itx, i don't advocate anything i do, but i can't bear misinformation
[08:37:12] <megal0maniac> Oh well :) I shall soon try it on the dockstar
[08:37:27] <theBear> mmm, you don't need any cd for that
[08:37:34] <megal0maniac> No sir
[08:37:57] <theBear> you gonna want a nice working install on a relatively fast machine tho, or at least a chroot
[08:38:43] <megal0maniac> theBear: Well the Dockstar is 1.2ghz ARM, and a headless install not doing very much. Should suffice, no?
[08:38:57] <megal0maniac> I like Windows on my desktops. Embedded gets Linux
[08:40:15] <theBear> depends how patient you are
[08:40:34] <theBear> and how much ram it got
[08:40:47] <theBear> gcc and glibc don't build on small ram
[08:41:06] <megal0maniac> Mmm..
[08:41:11] <megal0maniac> 128mb physical RAM
[08:41:31] <megal0maniac> And I've found swap to be pretty useless for certain applications
[08:41:33] <theBear> yeah, that aint gonna cut it, unless you can get swap going early in the install
[08:41:59] <theBear> i never installed on a dockstar, i dunno what the pre-gentoo environment looks like
[08:42:34] <megal0maniac> theBear: Well at the moment, it's u-boot with openwrt installed on flash, and configured to boot from USB if one is present
[08:43:25] <theBear> well that's ok if yer really patient, oh wait, only windows.. hmm... does wrt do swap ?
[08:43:44] <theBear> and a relatively up2date kernel happy to run current gentoo userspace/chroot ?
[08:44:10] <megal0maniac> It does. And it's built to run on systems with 4mb flash and 32mb RAM, so it's lightweight as hell
[08:44:28] <megal0maniac> Well it runs a 3.2 kernel
[08:44:35] <theBear> mmm, i looked at it a bit over the years, i wouldn't call it lightweight as hell, but it isn't heavy
[08:44:52] <megal0maniac> Lightweight enough. Far from a desktop distro ;)
[08:45:09] <megal0maniac> I guess I just haven't seen lightweight as hell :P
[08:45:26] <theBear> far from what normal people call a desktop distro, a little heavy for what i call a desktop distro :) but i'm disturbed, i don't advocate what i do
[08:46:19] <vsync_> lol, gentoo
[08:46:25] <theBear> lol, racist
[08:47:21] <vsync_> lol, used that piece of shit for many a year
[08:47:32] <vsync_> when it was cool to optimize everything for single core crap processors
[08:47:44] <megal0maniac> That's what I remember!
[08:47:46] <vsync_> and when hardware was ghetto at its best
[08:47:50] <theBear> guess that makes you stupid and ignorant... i've used it for a long time, and it's only made my life easier
[08:47:54] <megal0maniac> cflags everywhere
[08:48:04] <vsync_> yeah sure it does. lol. if you still use crap hardware
[08:48:06] <theBear> and my hardware is still 10 years old on avg
[08:48:11] <vsync_> yes...
[08:48:23] <theBear> nah, it's nothing to do with speed or optimisations
[08:48:24] <vsync_> I hope you like fixing f'd up ebuilds and such
[08:48:32] <vsync_> and even then deep update fails on some stupid crap
[08:48:39] <wakko> gentoo rox :)
[08:48:49] <theBear> someone sounds bitter
[08:48:51] <Tom_itx> here we go
[08:48:52] <vsync_> theBear: well then I guess you're just used to getting buttraped
[08:49:01] <vsync_> to each his own
[08:49:03] <wakko> at least gentoo does not come with gnome/system/dbus sh*t
[08:49:21] <theBear> nah, real distros buttrape you, rebooting for an update on a production server ? fuck that ! booting from a cd !@?!?!? pfft !
[08:49:35] <vsync_> gentoo on a production server? u gotta be kidding me
[08:49:44] <vsync_> anyway i gotta run
[08:49:47] <megal0maniac> vsync_: I spent my entire weekend trying to get a distro installed on this box's internal flash without overwriting the bootloader. All the instructions were outdated and/or wrong, and now i could do it all in 20 minutes, but I learnt a crap load
[08:49:58] <theBear> and that's why people keep coming back to me for production server maintenance, and not you...
[08:50:47] * Tom_itx puts the box back in the closet
[08:51:02] <theBear> perfect timing
[08:51:12] <Tom_itx> :)
[08:51:38] <theBear> funny that, how ignorance applies both to relating to people that are different from you, AND to os opinions :)
[08:51:50] * theBear doesn't much care for bigots
[08:56:20] <megal0maniac> I'm only 21, but I've quickly learnt that people don't think the same way, or use computers for the same purposes. The reason so many options exist is that we're entitled to whichever one we want, and one might suit us better than another. Be it for productivity or learning or whatever
[08:57:09] <Tom_itx> i've got 6 different os's running
[08:57:16] <theBear> i agree, but that leads to positive arguments... 99 times outta 100 i found that negative comments suggest bitterness or lack of understanding (often due to forementioned bitterness)..
[08:57:30] <Tom_itx> yup
[08:57:38] <megal0maniac> Someone told me that I'm stupid for installing an OS on internal NAND flash, and that there was no reason to do so, but it's what I wanted to do and I learnt a lot from it
[08:57:50] <theBear> and i'm still livid about some racial and similar comments by someone a month or two ago
[08:58:02] * theBear doesn't much care for bigots
[08:58:05] <Tom_itx> here?
[08:58:11] <megal0maniac> I like learning about other peoples' uses for different distros
[08:58:17] <theBear> yeah here
[08:58:23] <megal0maniac> Wow. I missed that one
[08:58:32] <megal0maniac> Moderate, Tom!
[08:58:54] <Tom_itx> guess i did too
[08:59:24] <Tom_itx> i'd say this channel is still above average
[08:59:26] <theBear> mmm, guess you did... suffice to say someone whose name begun with v was involved
[09:00:12] <theBear> it's definately above average for general tone and moderation levels... but this was also above average for any kind of bigotry i'd seen in 20+ years of irc
[09:00:37] <theBear> suppose it only comes up when someone mentions where they live or what colour or sexuality they are, which isn't THAT common in irc
[09:15:00] <megal0maniac> theBear: Quick question. I want to compress the contents of a directory (recursively). How can I do this with tar?
[09:15:16] <megal0maniac> I.e. I don't want to compress the folder, just the contents
[09:15:48] <theBear> err, cd dir && tar -cf filename.tar *
[09:16:09] <theBear> there's a switch for not including path/prefix too, i forget that
[09:16:21] <theBear> might be default when you do it that way tho
[09:17:01] <megal0maniac> Seems to be working...
[09:17:09] <megal0maniac> Everything else so far has thrown an error
[09:17:14] <theBear> not sure how that handles hidden (.blah) or other files either, try it, if not one of us can find the flag
[09:17:35] <theBear> also that's not compressing, just tarballing
[09:17:41] <megal0maniac> Good enough :)
[09:17:45] <theBear> for compression you wanna add a -z or j or somethingh
[09:19:13] <theBear> and of course mathcing .gz or .bz2 or whatever
[09:19:44] <Valen> j
[09:19:46] <Valen> always j
[09:19:47] <Valen> ;->
[09:20:06] <theBear> meh, j is slow on ancient hardware like i got :)
[09:20:34] <Valen> you can get a parallel bzip
[09:20:45] <theBear> doesn't help on a single proc machine :)
[09:21:09] <Valen> pshaw
[09:21:20] <Valen> might as well give the hamster a coffee
[09:21:36] <theBear> i can't afford coffee for the hamster, that goes to draggin my sorry ass out of bed
[09:22:10] <theBear> err, make that miserable sorry ass
[09:26:49] <twnqx> Valen: bzip2 is so outdated...
[09:27:06] <twnqx> -J / xz it is these days!
[09:27:42] <Valen> ?
[09:27:55] <theBear> xz is WAAAAAY older than bzip
[09:28:29] <theBear> and shittier compression, tho faster
[09:29:31] <megal0maniac> And gzip?
[09:30:00] <Valen> gzip is the standard
[09:30:19] <theBear> gz is old, i forget how it compares, pretty sure it's slower but better compression than xz... recent kernels have a nice explanation of the basic comparision between the 4 common compressions
[09:30:24] <Valen> bzip gives better compression, though the pbzip wont do streams i dont think
[09:30:50] <megal0maniac> 7z using lzma is pretty good too
[09:31:12] <Valen> zfs uses lzma i think
[09:31:14] <Valen> i've not used it
[09:31:20] <Valen> lzma that is
[09:38:43] <megal0maniac> Well this is lame
[09:38:53] <megal0maniac> [ ok ] Starting OpenBSD Secure Shell server: sshd.
[09:39:00] <megal0maniac> And that's all she wrote
[09:39:54] <megal0maniac> Is this a problem?: [FAIL] startpar: service(s) returned failure: hostname.sh ... failed!
[09:40:10] <theBear> shouldn't be a big one, what os/distro we talking about ?
[09:40:21] <megal0maniac> wheezy on armel
[09:40:44] <theBear> hmm, i dunno debian good, but it shouldn't break basic stuff...
[09:40:57] <theBear> hostname.sh for a service sound odd tho
[09:41:06] <megal0maniac> Well init goes to runlevel 2 after that
[09:41:20] <theBear> what is runlevel2 in debian land ?
[09:41:31] * megal0maniac shrugs
[09:41:35] <theBear> hehe
[09:41:52] <megal0maniac> Here's my entire bootlog for interest sake (only the last few lines are really relevant)
[09:41:57] <megal0maniac> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5FvBaCu9
[09:42:05] <theBear> if it's easy, i'd check the fs, look at hostname.sh and whatever it poitns at (maybe /etc/hostname or /etc/conf.d/hostname for example) and check that is happy
[09:42:29] <theBear> also, have you tried ssh'ing in ? if sshd is started and your passwd db is working, that should be enough
[09:42:41] <megal0maniac> Yeah, just times out
[09:43:00] <megal0maniac> Evidentally, sshd is not starting
[09:44:34] <megal0maniac> Built the rootfs from OpenWRT because it's the same arch and kernel. Debootstrap tries to chroot in at a point, and it breaks on i386 machines for obvious reasons
[09:45:16] <theBear> erm, but that says it did starty
[09:45:46] <megal0maniac> Oh looky: Inodes that were part of a corrupted orphan linked list found. Fix<y>?
[09:50:46] <megal0maniac> Heh. I e2fsckd and gave it a hostname. It isn't moaning anymore, but it's still getting stuck at the same place
[09:50:59] <megal0maniac> Silly Debian
[09:51:40] <theBear> most likely, usually that just fixes stuff from a bad umount without problems
[09:52:00] <theBear> ahh you beat me, just dealing with a useless piece of shit i gotta kick out of the house in the next week or so
[09:52:15] <megal0maniac> I know those well
[09:52:29] <theBear> if i disappear, it's cos i been arrested for beating his head to a pulp
[09:52:40] <theBear> but that's err, only 49% likely
[09:52:53] <megal0maniac> Odds are in his favour
[09:53:02] <theBear> heh, not really, it's my house, either way he loses
[09:53:17] <megal0maniac> The odds are in his head's favour ;)
[09:53:25] <theBear> plus i'm more hopelessly insane and violent than him
[09:53:30] <theBear> yeah, i suppose they are, just barely
[09:59:17] <megal0maniac> theBear: If I chroot in from another OS, I get "\u@\h:\w$". Any idea why?
[09:59:54] <theBear> err, chroot ? like, more details
[10:00:14] <megal0maniac> Well I can't boot the system, so I'm chrooting in instead to see what's up
[10:00:30] <megal0maniac> mount /dev/sdb1 /home/ && chroot /home/
[10:00:38] <theBear> often a chroot prompt funniness can be fixed with something like chroot /chrootdir /bin/bash then source /etc/profile inside the chroot
[10:01:06] <theBear> those escapes don't look real familiar, i never been good with *nix prompt strings, but it probly something like that
[10:01:21] <theBear> could be something like unicode or (does it even still exist?) ansi support missing
[10:01:24] <megal0maniac> Also, tab makes tab stops instead of tap-completion
[10:01:31] <megal0maniac> *tab-completion
[10:01:36] <theBear> yeah, that's a similar shell/environment thing
[10:01:37] <megal0maniac> I feel like the install is broked
[10:01:57] <theBear> it's possible, like i say i dunno debian too good, but more likely it's just minor incompatibilities
[10:03:23] <theBear> for example when i boot a arch livecd (been messing with (u)efi boot recently, not much supports it on boot cds) tab and everything is all screwed up compared to what i'm used to
[10:03:35] <theBear> and bash-completion stuff can cause all kinds of weird results on tabs
[10:03:53] <theBear> while we at it, do you actually have bash and maybe i dunno bash-compat or something installed ?
[10:04:02] <theBear> maybe yer in a silly ash shell or something
[10:04:04] <theBear> or busybox
[10:04:32] <megal0maniac> bash-competion for me is like a stick to a blind man
[10:04:42] <megal0maniac> Ah, that might be it. I'm in busybox
[10:05:00] <theBear> i haven't quite got the complexities of it yet, and i been interested since i was first shown the magic probably 15 years ago now, but i'm gettin there
[10:05:31] <theBear> simple tab-completion is good, but with a few little modules you can have dns completion and all kinds of arbitrary stuff... it's kinda awesome being able to tab-complete around the lan for example
[10:05:32] <megal0maniac> Oh look. bash-completion is working now
[10:06:06] <theBear> or for example in gentoo, there's a portage-tree/ebuild tab-completion module
[10:06:30] <theBear> in debian there is probably an apt-tree module
[10:11:47] <megal0maniac> 'lo abcminiuser. How's the LUFA extension coming along?
[10:12:18] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, yackity-saxy
[10:12:49] <twnqx> hey abcminiuser
[10:12:57] <abcminiuser> Yahoyhoy
[10:13:04] <twnqx> what is the chance of getting round chips? :)
[10:13:19] <twnqx> not qfn or anything, but round :)
[10:14:15] <abcminiuser> Errr...
[10:14:17] <abcminiuser> Why?
[10:15:10] <Tom_itx> looking for a good meter?
http://elecp-media.com/portal/wts/cgmcfMaVf-ebbg4u2ceFvRmcrre038a
[10:16:11] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser to settle an earlier dispute
[10:16:44] <megal0maniac> You get those silicon blog thingies
[10:16:56] <megal0maniac> They're round (more or less)
[10:17:21] <Valen> i'm sure i could put an IC in the mill and it'd be round
[10:17:52] <megal0maniac> If it's something simple, you probably won't hit the die anyway
[10:17:53] <Valen> Tom_itx: how much $$$$$$?
[10:18:05] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[10:18:13] <Tom_itx> just a comparison of 10
[10:19:26] <megal0maniac> Valen: It's probably closer to $$$$$$ than $$
[10:19:33] <jadew> Tom_itx, what are the prices for those?
[10:19:47] <jadew> ah, you got the same question severla times
[10:19:49] <jadew> sorry :P
[10:20:16] <Tom_itx> you can do your own shopping once you compare
[10:20:46] <jadew> well, I usually compare by price lol
[10:21:44] <jadew> I want the 2002 model
[10:22:27] <jadew> 0.0006% accuracy, how bad ass is that?
[10:22:37] * GuShH thought they were talking about cars for a moment
[10:23:06] <jadew> well, I'm sure you can find an used car for the price of any of those meters
[10:23:27] <jadew> actually, you can probably find a used car for any price
[10:23:38] <GuShH> depends where you live
[10:23:40] <GuShH> I'd believe it in the US.
[10:23:41] <Tom_itx> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Computer_Systems/Standalone_Mobile/Telepathy_One_headset_emerges_as_legit_Google_Glass_competitor.aspx
[10:23:44] <GuShH> not in Argentina.
[10:24:16] <jadew> I have a friend who bought a car for 200 euro from germany, looked decent and worked fine
[10:24:26] <GuShH> that sounds too vague
[10:24:56] <jadew> I don't know the make / year / etc
[10:25:02] <Tom_itx> somebody was murdered in it
[10:25:06] <GuShH> haha
[10:25:06] <jadew> I just know that it worked, didn't have any issues with it
[10:25:08] <GuShH> or it was flooded
[10:25:12] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: No that's america
[10:25:40] <GuShH> a friend got a flooded 2010 civic for cheap, dried it up changed a few things and now it's on the market for twice what he paid
[10:25:41] <jadew> well, you can find really cheap cars in europe
[10:26:02] <jadew> so he's in for a $20 proffit? :D
[10:26:11] <GuShH> shut up fool
[10:26:24] <GuShH> are you one of those youtube retards that never owned a car and thus enjoys making fun of Hondas?
[10:26:55] <jadew> yeah! how did you know?
[10:27:00] <GuShH> My mom had a civic since 92 and while it's not her primary vehicle anymore, it's running strong even though it's a 1.6 (as strong as they can be...)
[10:27:04] <GuShH> it's one reliable car
[10:27:09] <GuShH> cars are unreliable if you are a retard though
[10:27:11] <Tom_itx> is this crabby monday or what?
[10:27:12] <GuShH> retards can ruin any car
[10:27:28] <GuShH> be it a fiat 600 or a veyron
[10:27:45] <GuShH> they'll either crash it or ruin it one way or another
[10:27:54] <jadew> problem with hondas (in europe) is that shit is expensive to replace
[10:28:10] <GuShH> my mom's is japanese import but there are aftermarket parts if you want them
[10:28:12] <megal0maniac> I make fun of my girlfriend's honda, but only because I have a vw
[10:28:22] <GuShH> I make fun of VWs too just so you know
[10:28:26] <GuShH> specially new mid range models
[10:28:30] <GuShH> very low quality inside.
[10:28:38] <GuShH> they're not what they used to be, except for the german made ones
[10:28:48] <megal0maniac> Mine is from 2005, still has a carb
[10:28:55] <GuShH> but most VWs here are from brazil or assembled here.
[10:29:03] * jadew hasn't been in a new VW
[10:29:07] <jadew> but the old ones were cool
[10:29:14] <GuShH> I admire some of their design choices and dislike some others as well.
[10:29:22] <jadew> VW is the younger brother of AUDI, so go figure
[10:29:27] <GuShH> take consumables, say the oil filter on a jetta
[10:29:36] <GuShH> very accesible, simple to replace it's right there in front of you
[10:29:39] <GuShH> take the civic
[10:29:48] <GuShH> you need a lift or remove the left front wheel to access it
[10:30:16] <GuShH> I bet just because of that some people hate civics
[10:30:21] <jadew> you guys don't have car services in the US?
[10:30:26] <GuShH> you hate what you don't understand, you hate what makes you scared.
[10:30:40] <jadew> or they wouldn't service a honda?
[10:30:47] <GuShH> jadew: we motor heads do it all ourselves so we can guarantee the parts we buy end up in the car we drive.
[10:30:53] <Tom_itx> of course they would... for a price
[10:30:57] <GuShH> plus when you buy the tools to do X you get to keep them for Y and Z.
[10:31:07] <GuShH> Is jadew a woman by chance?
[10:31:09] * GuShH grins
[10:31:33] <GuShH> "petrol goes in, we drive" that's all there is to most women and cars.
[10:31:38] <jadew> you can stay and watch when they're replacing stuff
[10:31:45] <GuShH> hawhaw
[10:31:49] <GuShH> so you _are_ wasting your time huh
[10:32:00] <GuShH> wasn't the whole purpose of letting someone else do it for you so you can do something else with the time?
[10:32:08] <GuShH> as that's the primary excuse you'd give anyone when they ask you
[10:32:11] <jadew> it's better than wasting my time and getting dirty / cutting myself in the process
[10:32:14] <GuShH> "oh my time is valuable"
[10:32:25] <GuShH> you are wasting it if you just stand there having a coffee staring at them
[10:32:29] <GuShH> and you've lost money
[10:32:33] <GuShH> you've gained no tools nor knowledge
[10:32:37] <GuShH> you are on a loss.
[10:32:43] <GuShH> also, you don't get dirty with nitrile gloves.
[10:33:02] <jadew> I actually used to enjoy that, I would stay and chat with those guys or other people doing the same thing
[10:33:06] <GuShH> I really think most people are just too lazy and stupid to even change a piece of plastic trim on their car...
[10:33:12] <jadew> and also got a chance to inspect my car
[10:33:31] <jadew> no, most people don't give a shit about it
[10:33:48] <jadew> any hill billy can fix a car
[10:33:51] <GuShH> you can't inspect it if you don't even know what torque value goes on what nut, what kind of inspection are you doing? "is my shakira cd still in there or did they steal it?"
[10:34:02] <GuShH> This has nothing to do with fixing
[10:34:12] <GuShH> this is maintenance.
[10:34:29] <GuShH> and you are just offended by the fact that you are incapable of doing that.
[10:34:46] <jadew> sure you can inspect it, I was interrested in damage under the car, also had a PC interface to check for errors, I wasn't measuring anything, cars in this century do that themselves
[10:34:47] <megal0maniac> Crabby Monday indeed
[10:34:55] <GuShH> but it's ok I wasnt talking about you it's a general discussion
[10:35:14] <GuShH> oh so cars can measure the torque on each nut, amazing
[10:35:17] <GuShH> they fly too, I presume
[10:35:26] * GuShH oOoO( ...idiot )
[10:35:34] <jadew> actually, I did open up my car and fixed stuff, I just think you're a moron for taking pride in changing the oil, any monkey can do that
[10:35:37] <MrM0bius> jadew, you do know that GuShH is a troll, don't you?
[10:35:49] <GuShH> what pride? do you know what an example is?
[10:35:52] <GuShH> I chose one you could understand
[10:35:55] <jadew> MrM0bius, I'm starting to figure it out
[10:36:01] <GuShH> why would I even talk about timing belts for instance if you don't even know how to change one
[10:36:04] <MrM0bius> i have experience with him
[10:36:29] <GuShH> MrM0bius: If I'm a troll you are a less than a speck of dust
[10:36:48] <GuShH> For you anyone who disagrees with your little point of view is a troll
[10:37:05] <jadew> GuShH, whatever, most people working in a car service have like 4 years of school, it's hard to believe they're all geniuses for being able to work on cars
[10:37:07] <GuShH> It's the main reason why you're a basement cat.
[10:37:07] <MrM0bius> could be, bro
[10:37:27] <jadew> now stop taking vanity from shitty stuff any idiot can do
[10:37:31] <GuShH> jadew: and because they're useless dicks, you don't want them anywhere near your car unless you are a retard
[10:37:39] <GuShH> you do see how you miss every one of your points?
[10:37:50] <GuShH> your only excuse is you are too useless or lazy to do it yourself.
[10:37:51] <GuShH> period
[10:38:17] <jadew> they're not useless, they're doing a fine job, you just want to feel better than them at something they probably do a lot better than you think you're doing
[10:38:33] <GuShH> actually that's what you do by staring at them while you sip your cheap ass coffee boy
[10:38:46] <GuShH> makes you feel bigger than them
[10:38:54] <jadew> lol
[10:38:56] <GuShH> maybe you'll throw 'em a nickel afterwards
[10:39:17] <jadew> yeah, I guess everyone who's asking someone to do something for them, does that to feel "bigger"
[10:39:22] <jadew> you're gone brother...
[10:39:28] <GuShH> you are not asking you are paying them
[10:41:01] <jadew> anyway, keep thinking you're doing a better job than the guys who do that for a living...
[10:41:20] <GuShH> I believe the drugs in your system are making you disappear, not me.
[10:41:34] <GuShH> People are forced to do anything for a living, that doesn't make them better than anybody else at it
[10:41:38] <GuShH> In fact, it makes them worse.
[10:41:45] <GuShH> because it's not what they want to do
[10:41:47] <GuShH> it's not their passion
[10:41:48] <abcminiuser> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lq34Ob7Gsg&feature=youtu.be
[10:41:51] <GuShH> so shut the fuck up already, thanks.
[10:41:56] <GuShH> sheep
[10:42:02] <MrM0bius> troll
[10:42:11] <jadew> lmfao, you're an idiot. first of all they have training, second of all they have tools you don't
[10:42:12] <GuShH> MrM0bius: learn a new word and we'll give you a cookie
[10:42:27] <jadew> you can't even afford 10% of the tools they use on your car
[10:42:28] <GuShH> jadew: The tools you buy for less than they charge you for any specific task
[10:42:47] <GuShH> Actually I could afford to buy your house right now and set it on fire kid
[10:42:55] <GuShH> With you inside.
[10:43:10] <jadew> 1) I think you're a moron.
[10:43:17] <GuShH> I don't give a shit what you think of me or anyone else
[10:43:20] <GuShH> you are a clueless sheep
[10:43:21] <jadew> 2) I think you have a crappy car and use crappy car services.
[10:43:23] <GuShH> and you are ignored
[10:43:28] <jadew> which is why you might think you're doing a better job
[10:43:33] <megal0maniac> ENCOURAGE PEOPLE OR WE WILL SQUASH YOU.
[10:43:34] <MrM0bius> clueless troll
[10:43:36] <GuShH> little shit
[10:43:54] <GuShH> megal0maniac: I encourage people like him to quit wasting my air and off themselves already
[10:44:06] <megal0maniac> :/
[10:44:08] <MrM0bius> jadew, GuShH wont really ignore you because then he'd haveno one to play with
[10:44:25] <jadew> I know he wouldn't ignore me, he wants to see what I have to say
[10:44:38] <jadew> he's just an arogant idiot with no clue
[10:44:38] <GuShH> MrM0bius: I won't ignore you because you are too pathetic to even think about consuming time to ignore you
[10:44:51] <GuShH> The key strokes involved are far more valuable than your existance in this world
[10:45:50] <GuShH> Go play with your tiny pieces of silicon of which you've got no say in designing, developing, manufacturing or testing. Go play.
[10:45:53] <jadew> why don't you go work on your shitty car and let us alone?
[10:46:11] <GuShH> Keep on being the consuming sheep you've always been.
[10:46:17] <jadew> like you have any say in designing your car, lol
[10:46:21] <jadew> what a shithead
[10:47:12] <GuShH> It's clear this channel is mostly frequented by pot heads far too confused to join #arduino.
[10:47:28] <jadew> he's now glad he said "he ignored me" cuz he doesn't have to answer to that
[10:47:44] <jadew> instead he resorts to crappy insults, what an idiot
[10:47:48] * RikusW just got the dragon working in virtualbox :)
[10:48:01] * megal0maniac welcomes change of subject
[10:48:01] <MrM0bius> ya, that would be expected of a trolly troll
[10:48:05] <megal0maniac> Well done!
[10:48:10] <RikusW> :)
[10:48:14] <RikusW> using mint as host
[10:48:14] <MrM0bius> RikusW, which dragon is this?
[10:48:24] <RikusW> the one that burns AVRs
[10:48:26] <megal0maniac> The only one relevant in #avr :)
[10:48:31] <GuShH> RikusW: good for you, a minuscule achievement irrelevant to the universe, but good for you.
[10:48:38] <RikusW> yep
[10:48:48] <RikusW> no more rebooting
[10:48:50] <GuShH> At least you are doing something, unlike the ones on my ignore list.
[10:49:08] <RikusW> Win7 is kindof irritating me by now
[10:49:14] <RikusW> been on it for a week...
[10:49:21] <RikusW> UAC :S :S
[10:49:22] <GuShH> You should try Win8
[10:49:23] <theBear> i'm not surprised, i only spent maybe 45 minutes on it and i hate it
[10:49:27] <GuShH> Disable UAC if you don't need it
[10:49:29] <megal0maniac> Seriously?
[10:49:32] <RikusW> extremely annoying
[10:49:36] <megal0maniac> Nobody needs UAC
[10:49:49] <jadew> I rarely get hit by UAC
[10:49:55] <GuShH> The problem is in modal dialog + screen flashing
[10:49:56] <jadew> and I have not disabled it
[10:50:06] * RikusW constantly mess with UAC traps...
[10:50:07] <GuShH> you don't ever do that to a user
[10:50:16] <theBear> i don't, ms does :)
[10:50:28] <GuShH> UAC has multiple settings
[10:50:38] <GuShH> If you have it on low you barely get to see a modal dialog
[10:50:43] <jadew> actually you do, like when an app needs root access to save settings and it shows up the graphical "su"
[10:50:44] <GuShH> If it's on high, you see it every day
[10:50:49] <MrM0bius> win7 is annoying at the beginning but once you get stuff set up then its much more tolerable. copying your old stuff over withal the ridiculos permission stuff is kind of bad.
[10:51:02] <RikusW> XP in vb is much easier, I'm used to it anyways
[10:51:10] <megal0maniac> I love 7
[10:51:15] <jadew> me too
[10:51:17] <megal0maniac> Mint on the other hand is pissing me off
[10:51:17] <GuShH> 8 is horrible
[10:51:36] <RikusW> so far mint is ok
[10:51:38] <theBear> i only used any of them a tiny bit, but mostly that sneaky mac style half-taskbar/half-quicklaunch thing pisses me off initially
[10:51:50] <jadew> mint is ok, just that it suffers from all the stuff every *nix suffers, the GUI stuff rarely works fine
[10:52:03] <theBear> mint is ok, the pulse config is screwed up, but apart from that all the integration and fine-settings are pretty decent
[10:52:06] <GuShH> theBear: so I guess you hate most linux distros too, say ubuntu?
[10:52:07] <RikusW> theBear: win7 taskbar works for me :)
[10:52:09] <jadew> theBear, ah, that turns out to be pretty nice after a while
[10:52:10] <GuShH> since they try to be osx
[10:52:21] <theBear> GuShH, probably, only ever seen it once over a dudes shoulder in a doctors waiting room
[10:52:22] <megal0maniac> My biggest gripe is that when it automounts ext2 drives, it mounts ro for user
[10:52:36] <theBear> haven't even seen gnome or kde outside of pictures in the last 10 years or so
[10:52:51] <GuShH> it tries so much to be an apple product it's sad.
[10:52:54] <RikusW> megal0maniac: edit /etc/fstab ?
[10:52:55] <jadew> theBear, xfce?
[10:53:04] <megal0maniac> I saw kde on gentoo today. wtf?
[10:53:15] <MrM0bius> " all the stuff every *nix suffers, the GUI stuff rarely works fine" i think its hilarious that linux and unix users look down on windows users then you hear people saying stuff like that. it also makes me laugh when basic things dont work for them because they are using an obscure OS when i havent had any problems like that since 1996
[10:53:32] <jadew> personally, I like the classic Mate desktop
[10:53:33] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Yes, but... it should just work. It's illogical to mount ro
[10:53:41] <theBear> jadew, yeah, for about the same period, except fro a short stint back on fluxbox while i had a 400mhz/256mbram/nodisk desktop
[10:53:43] * RikusW wonders if iatkos ML2 will install in VB
[10:53:56] <megal0maniac> RikusW: I couldn't get it to
[10:54:06] <jadew> haven't tried fluxbox yet
[10:54:28] <theBear> MrM0bius, and i feel the same way, only opposite :) it's all about what you can tolerate in your everyday environment...
[10:54:45] <RikusW> megal0maniac: another problem, I don't have HD4000
[10:55:01] <megal0maniac> What do you have?
[10:55:04] <theBear> fluxbox is just a blackbox fork from last century, it's a wm ONLY, no desktop, no fancy integration, it just lets you launch stuff and arrange windows and stuff, but it does the job nicely and with VERY little overhea
[10:55:05] <theBear> d
[10:55:11] <RikusW> megal0maniac: G2020 CPU
[10:55:15] <RikusW> only HD
[10:55:22] <megal0maniac> Should be fine, no?
[10:55:24] <MrM0bius> theBear, ya, it just gets old since its not true any more. i understood when people complained about the blue screen when windows 95 was out but ive only had it twice in the last 5 years using windows everyday.
[10:55:37] <megal0maniac> Although I use nvidia pci-e so I can't really speak from experience
[10:55:37] <RikusW> says not supported, maybe it can be hacked to work
[10:55:49] <MrM0bius> mac people are just as bad. almost everyone where i work has one and says retarded stuff like "it never gets the blue screen" well neither do i
[10:56:03] <GuShH> it's not blue in macs
[10:56:12] <megal0maniac> It's iffy grey
[10:56:24] <megal0maniac> And trust me, macs do get it
[10:56:34] <theBear> MrM0bius, see, in the last 10-15 years i only touched windows when people broke it, i see ALL the bad and very little of the good
[10:56:35] <RikusW> win7 froze up a few times on my new pc :( will see if that happens with extended Mint use
[10:56:36] <GuShH> I've seen the latest iphone crash using siri after 2 minutes
[10:57:00] <GuShH> all they have is ok design, ok quality, expensive prices, crappy software.
[10:57:09] <megal0maniac> RikusW: That's unusual. Mine did the same, turned out to be faulty mb
[10:57:16] <GuShH> and the worst community
[10:57:25] <GuShH> think baristas and artist wannabes
[10:57:30] <jadew> I found a list the other day, while searching for some current issue I was having with my linux install:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
[10:57:52] <jadew> it just happens that I've had most of the problems listed in there and some more
[10:58:17] <MrM0bius> theBear, i just think of *nix users are going to be superior the really need to be superior and not ever again complain about anything not working that has worked fine for me without fail on windows. you cant bitch when basic things are broken and be elite at he same time. its having your cake and eating it too.
[10:58:21] <jadew> I agree with the author, if those problems would be fixed in *linux, I might consider it as a full time desktop
[10:58:28] <RikusW> megal0maniac: mouse and keyboard stop responding
[10:58:28] <RikusW> including numlock and even the mouse cursor, which is unusual
[10:58:28] <RikusW> only button still working is reset :-D
[10:59:51] * RikusW added usb keyboard to VBox devices, big mistake, froze the machine...
[11:01:36] <theBear> MrM0bius, oh i know, i understand the whole situation, i seen it hashed out so many many times.... i always admit the problems that exist, just that in my world the ones i experience are so infinitely solvable, but the ones in windows land are at best solvable by brute force... brute force is fine for normal people, or those happy to reinstall, but i'm a scientist, and a computer scientist, and mentally disturbed, and often an idealist in related ways
[11:01:59] <theBear> and that linux is not ready for the desktop article is old and misinformesd
[11:02:35] <jadew> theBear, it's from 2013 and has links to bug reports / articles / forum posts, documenting each issue
[11:03:08] <jadew> the problems that have been resolved in the meantime were crossed out (not that many)
[11:03:10] <GuShH> theBear: how's the back
[11:03:48] <theBear> hmm, must be a new article with the same name, i gonna have to peek
[11:04:24] <theBear> GuShH, meh, medium, having very few BAD days.. grumpy cos i'm dealing with an ass that i let stay in a time of need that now needs removal instead of just doing what was agreed
[11:04:33] <jadew> theBear, I think he just revisited it, removing / adding new stuff
[11:04:44] <jadew> it's very well written tho
[11:05:14] <theBear> good writing is cool, but it doesn't excuse misinformation (still referring to past version(s))
[11:05:24] <GuShH> theBear: oh so we've got both an ass that needs removal and we've both got bad pain days... interesting
[11:05:34] * GuShH wonders if theBear isn't himself from the future
[11:06:11] <theBear> aren't you older than me ? i guess i never really checked
[11:06:18] <GuShH> I doubt that
[11:06:30] <theBear> if i'm you from the future tho, you should be enjoying yourself a lot more, and doing EVERYTHING you can not to end up wher ei am
[11:06:36] <theBear> not just medically, mostly mentally
[11:06:49] <GuShH> yeah that's why I ignored a few people just then
[11:06:53] <GuShH> little steps
[11:08:51] <theBear> orright, so his whole first section rant on dri/gl related stuff is largely wrong... vdpau is standardised across several drivers, and support is increasing, mesa is in GOOD shape at the moment, both on its own and compared to the past... the intel drivers may not match intel speeds, but they ARE high quality.. the 'reports of tearing' he mentions are minor misconfigurations, which in the meantime (those options existing) allow us to set graphics to be mo
[11:08:51] <theBear> re efficient under certain circumstances
[11:09:05] <jadew> well, theBear, wasn't a moron a few years back either
[11:09:19] <jadew> that's a dead giveaway that you're not the same
[11:09:44] <theBear> his audio section #2 is completely wrong, except for the part mentioning oss and ossv4 are dead in the water
[11:10:05] <theBear> jadew, hey, be nice, two wrongs don't make a right
[11:10:25] <GuShH> He's being his normal stupid again?
[11:10:28] <jadew> he's extremely annoying, and I'm being nice
[11:10:42] <GuShH> Maybe I should unignore him and keep on bashing his little brain with the hard reality
[11:10:43] <theBear> his printer section is pretty accurate, tho it doesn't mention that all non-windows os's have this problem because people like canon won't give out informations they should for their own interests
[11:10:54] <theBear> his laptop section is wrong
[11:11:07] <GuShH> theBear: Samsung on OSX has better support than any linux distro I've seen, regarding printers.
[11:11:10] <GuShH> at least their color ones
[11:11:11] <theBear> his regression section is a gross exageration
[11:11:24] <theBear> his power saving section is plain wrong
[11:11:30] <theBear> and has been ALL this year
[11:11:36] <jadew> theBear, actually the audio part is correct, I faced that issue on my last install
[11:11:50] <jadew> I simply couldn't get the sound right, because of that garbage mix in there
[11:11:51] <GuShH> Major problem with linux samsung laser color drivers is that some of them are buggy and will use CMY to obtain black...
[11:11:53] <theBear> you may have faced issues, that doesn't make his stated facts correct
[11:12:09] <GuShH> And the conversion is quite horrid, because of their own protocol
[11:12:09] <theBear> damn you ignore-monkies, now you don't know who i'm talking to either
[11:12:16] <GuShH> o.o
[11:12:37] <GuShH> I'll clean my ignore list if they promise to behave then I'll behave
[11:12:57] <GuShH> But from his point of view, people like jay leno are also idiots because they enjoy to work on their expensive cars
[11:13:05] <jadew> tell him I promise to point out he's a retard with every chance I got, that's a free service from me
[11:13:16] <GuShH> "he must be really poor to fix that by himself"
[11:13:22] <theBear> damn you making me a proxy, how about you both be nice, and avoid talking about non-avr or constructive casual chat in here ?
[11:13:37] <GuShH> Nah he's too much of a pot addict to care about.
[11:13:54] <GuShH> jadew is a cottonhead.
[11:14:20] <theBear> dammit, don't abuse people when only i'm watching, taht doesn't help
[11:14:28] <GuShH> who doesn't understand what hobbies and interests are.
[11:14:32] <GuShH> why not? are you an op here?
[11:14:37] <GuShH> that makes it even better.
[11:14:54] <specing> I think you should all calm down and use Linux
[11:15:04] <GuShH> we use Linux for some things already
[11:15:07] <MrM0bius> linux sounds fecking terrible
[11:15:14] <GuShH> Not for printing, can't.
[11:15:16] <MrM0bius> it sounds like the windows 3 beta would be more enjoyable
[11:15:22] <jadew> this is not about linux, it's about GuShH, thinking he's awesome for changing the oil on his car by himself
[11:15:34] <jadew> and thinking that anyone who doesn't do it is a useless idiot
[11:15:36] <GuShH> jadew: you failed to read most of what has been said
[11:15:37] <MrM0bius> jadew, *in his car
[11:15:46] <jadew> the kind of mentality only a retard can have
[11:15:47] <GuShH> the oil was an example for your tiny brain to understand
[11:15:57] <GuShH> and I believe retards to be more educated than you'll ever be
[11:16:09] <theBear> i'm an op ?
[11:16:11] <jadew> retardation has nothing to do with education
[11:16:12] <GuShH> quite frankly, more pleasant too.
[11:16:14] <theBear> specing, <grin>
[11:16:29] <GuShH> spoken like a true retard right there boy
[11:16:29] <jadew> and by the looks of it, you're not too pleasant, so I'd say no, they're not
[11:16:32] <theBear> there was no windows 3 beta, but there was a win386 and a win 286 :)
[11:16:59] <jadew> GuShH, retardation is defined as an intelligence issue, not an education issue, you seem to lack both anyway
[11:16:59] <GuShH> jadew: why don't you go watch some of your favourite midget porn to calm down?
[11:17:00] <theBear> c'mon man, i know yer both reasonable adults... just be nice, for my sake
[11:17:12] <megal0maniac> Where are the adults?
[11:17:18] <theBear> megal0maniac, :(
[11:17:20] <GuShH> You are simply making a fool of yourself and reflecting on me
[11:17:25] <theBear> no i'm not :)
[11:17:25] <GuShH> It's sad when you expose yourself like that.
[11:17:50] <MrM0bius> theBear, i ran windows 2 on my HP-200LX just for fun. DOS was more useful though
[11:17:59] <jadew> seriously, what exactly is your problem? is not the first time you start insulting people? were you abused as a kid?
[11:18:05] <GuShH> Either way metrosexual fools deserve none of my interest.
[11:18:05] <jadew> did your dad fucked you in the ass?
[11:18:22] <GuShH> See, that's when you either get shot in the head, or banned.
[11:18:28] <megal0maniac> PEOPLE PLEASE!
[11:18:31] <megal0maniac> shut up!
[11:18:35] <theBear> windows 2 ? what windows 2 ?
[11:18:37] <GuShH> He needs a good bitch slap.
[11:18:43] <GuShH> 3.1 was the shit.
[11:18:54] <megal0maniac> One of you needs to man up and shut up
[11:18:56] <specing> megal0maniac: here, have some popcorn.
[11:19:02] <theBear> both of you needs to man up and shut up
[11:19:22] <megal0maniac> I would settle for 1
[11:19:28] <GuShH> specing: can I have some of that popcorn?
[11:19:32] <jadew> I made the mistake of answering to some of his idiotic statements, won't do that again, I'll shut up from here on
[11:19:38] <GuShH> megal0maniac: one ball? wouldn't that put your off balance?
[11:19:39] <specing> GuShH: no
[11:20:12] <GuShH> specing: That's fine I'll go and buy some.
[11:20:15] <theBear> c'mon, i hate most people for a whole range of reasons, but i don't hate either of you, therefore you must both have a lot going for you, therefore get your shit together
[11:20:15] <MrM0bius> theBear, i think it was this but i dont have the machine in front of me or i would boot it and see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.0
[11:20:56] <theBear> supplemented by win/286 and win/386 eh ? damn wikipedia, you never known my history better than me before
[11:21:15] <theBear> and i often wonder why EVERYONE forgets desqview, i loved that sucker
[11:21:37] <MrM0bius> theBear, yeah, HP-200LX was 286 compatible iirc
[11:21:50] <swart> no ops here? what a waste
[11:21:59] <theBear> mmm, wasn't until err, win95 from memory that you couldn't do 286 mode
[11:22:15] <theBear> jeez, leaving just cos of no ops, that's a bit extreme
[11:22:15] <MrM0bius> the most badass x86 machine i ever had though was a graphing calculator that ran a 286 compatible. it had DOS in ROM and could be programmed with Turbo C
[11:22:23] <jadew> theBear, that's great, I never used desqview, instead I was using a program that would put them into background
[11:22:24] <GuShH> that's today's metrosexual kids for you
[11:22:26] <theBear> heh, maybe i should be one <nudge nudge grin grin>
[11:22:27] <jadew> allowing me to switch to them
[11:22:57] <theBear> dos in rom is cool... i used a lot of OLD machines back when they weren't old, but i was sad i never found one with a basic rom
[11:23:03] <jadew> it was actually an easy thing to do back then, because MS-DOS had an interrupt just for that
[11:23:14] <megal0maniac> He just doesn't know that Tom_itx only wears his ops cape in emergencies
[11:23:25] <theBear> mmm, i liked desqview cos i could do two things without needing a 386
[11:23:39] <jadew> deffinitely looks nice, would have loved to have that
[11:23:40] <theBear> megal0maniac, mmm, maybe he doesn't, either way he knows tom aint here now ...
[11:23:42] <GuShH> megal0maniac: describe emergency?
[11:23:53] <theBear> emergency is when i frown
[11:24:05] <GuShH> you and me frown all the time that's not a valid answer.
[11:24:14] <GuShH> specially if flyback is involved.
[11:24:21] <megal0maniac> http://www.getmoneyforfree.com/USXXWKLY
[11:24:21] <megal0maniac> http://www.getmoneyforfree.com/USXXWKLY
[11:24:22] <megal0maniac> http://www.getmoneyforfree.com/USXXWKLY
[11:24:23] <megal0maniac> http://www.getmoneyforfree.com/USXXWKLY
[11:24:25] <megal0maniac> http://www.getmoneyforfree.com/USXXWKLY
[11:24:28] <megal0maniac> http://www.getmoneyforfree.com/USXXWKLY
[11:24:29] <MrM0bius> theBear, what do you mean no basic in rom? wasnt that fairly common in the early 80s?
[11:24:30] <megal0maniac> GuShH: Shit like that
[11:24:41] <GuShH> that's... not as annoying as jadew's twisted reality though
[11:24:59] <theBear> it's not true, i'm sad all the time, but i only frown when things are really bad... i even been working on it with my osteo/physiotherapist recently
[11:24:59] <GuShH> And I've tried to humanize flyback in the past, it's simply not possible.
[11:25:54] <theBear> MrM0bius, probably was, but i was under 10 then, and we didn't have as much money as some people, i got lent my first xt-clone and taught basic programming and debug stuff around oooh, hmm, 89 or so
[11:26:09] <theBear> i've humanised him, for months at a time, but he's too dangerously unbalanced, he can't maintain
[11:26:19] <GuShH> megal0maniac:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlPjxz4LGak
[11:26:24] <megal0maniac> No
[11:26:29] <GuShH> why not?
[11:26:35] <GuShH> it's my answer to "get money for free"
[11:26:50] <megal0maniac> No :)
[11:26:59] <GuShH> It's Dire Straits...
[11:27:04] <GuShH> Jeez dude, you live in a hole?
[11:27:12] <theBear> hehe, money fo nuthin
[11:27:18] <GuShH> I wonder if theBear likes 'em
[11:27:24] <megal0maniac> I know the reference, I just wasn't clicking the link :)
[11:27:31] <theBear> i watched that dude, err, dammit, edgar winter earlier...
[11:27:41] <GuShH> I don't think I ever posted any sick links here
[11:27:45] <theBear> i'm not against them... i like a few songs a lot, don't think i'd ever buy an album
[11:28:03] <megal0maniac> Apparently the song was based on a conversation with a grumpy department store salesman
[11:28:13] <MrM0bius> theBear, yeah basic is a good place to start. my great uncle still has a lugable tandy with an LCD screen and built in floppies. im sure thats worth something. ive always wanted to steal it and play with it
[11:28:16] <theBear> this isn't the place for bad links, tom gives us freedom, cos he knows we are good deep down, but it's still technically a very strict on-topic channel
[11:28:36] <GuShH> music can't be bad...
[11:28:37] <theBear> MrM0bius, heh, i played with them in the 80s/90s, even then they weren't much fun :)
[11:28:38] <megal0maniac> Oh, I saw a commodore vic20 for sale. Should I get it?
[11:28:46] <megal0maniac> GuShH: I beg to differ
[11:28:48] <GuShH> I think a friend still has his tandy
[11:28:54] <megal0maniac> but dire straits is still good
[11:28:57] <GuShH> megal0maniac: I don't call it music when it's not music
[11:28:58] <jadew> I started with basic
[11:29:02] <GuShH> like most rap and crap these days
[11:29:03] <jadew> but I agree, shitty programming language
[11:29:29] <megal0maniac> It has no power supply or cards or cables or anything. But would it be worth getting?
[11:29:38] <theBear> it was shitty, but at the time c and pascal compilers were hard to find, and noone enjoyed typing raw into debug.com, stupid anti-wrong-keypress interface
[11:29:41] <twnqx> dunno
[11:29:46] <twnqx> i have a stack of c64s :P
[11:29:47] <jadew> you had to number the lines in big steps so you could insert new lines with out overwritting the old ones
[11:30:08] <jadew> theBear, actually I did enjoy writting raw into debug.com
[11:30:13] <jadew> wrote several programs like that
[11:30:15] <GuShH> twnqx: can has some?
[11:30:19] * jadew was a very borred kid
[11:30:22] <theBear> megal0maniac, hangon, lcd, you sure ? either way, it's probably collectible in some VERY small circles, otherwise it'll be a tandy mdoel 40 or so, very basic xt with not much special about it
[11:30:24] <twnqx> GuShH: of course not.
[11:30:28] <GuShH> good answer
[11:30:44] <MrM0bius> basic had every advantage except you couldnt make fast graphics. it was awesome back then.
[11:30:54] <theBear> jadew, you sick fuck ! then again, in primary school i enjoyed typing up whole basic graphics demos from scratch in 5 minutes without any editing/troubleshooting :)
[11:31:16] <megal0maniac> theBear: One of these
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/CBMVIC20P8.jpg
[11:31:22] <theBear> MrM0bius, you needed quickbasic (real version, not early qbasic) and the svga lib (programmed in c) .. that was fast
[11:31:24] <megal0maniac> As is
[11:31:43] <theBear> huh ? vic20 aint trs40 with lcd
[11:31:46] <jadew> theBear, that's cool, I never got passed text based games in basic, graphics was way too slow
[11:31:52] <megal0maniac> Nope
[11:31:52] <jadew> circle 20, 30, 50
[11:32:01] <jadew> and you could see the circle drawing
[11:32:12] <megal0maniac> jadew: Sounds like Processing
[11:32:26] <MrM0bius> vic20 is like c64. i wouldnt bother though unless you can get your hands on the beast of a power supply it needs
[11:32:35] <MrM0bius> you would have basic in rom though
[11:32:42] <theBear> jadew, heh, like many aspects of programming, i learned tricks then, which make me not a useless time/ram waster now... for example the circles were slow to draw, but you could draw them all initially then use various palette tricks for FAST changes screen-wide within a single frame
[11:32:46] <megal0maniac> MrM0bius: Then it shall stay in the 2nd hand shop :)
[11:32:59] <megal0maniac> MrM0bius: It's AC 9V or something silly
[11:33:23] <theBear> draw 10 circles is a lot of cycles, but changing the palette so a single one becomes visible is a single cycles
[11:33:23] <jadew> theBear, are we still talking about z80?
[11:33:35] <theBear> nah, just generic old-basic on superslow machines
[11:33:52] <jadew> ah, then yeah, that could be done
[11:33:53] <theBear> i not sure i ever did palette stuff on z80, but surely it could do it
[11:34:06] <theBear> my z80 stuff was all basic err, embedded control kinda stuff
[11:34:07] <jadew> I was doing fast graphics by accessing the vidoe memory directly
[11:34:18] <jadew> it was at A000: or something like that :P
[11:34:25] <theBear> that helps, but in pc/gw-basic you still couldn't generate dots that quick
[11:34:27] <MrM0bius> megal0maniac, hmm, how much do they want for it?
[11:34:32] <jadew> for 320x200
[11:34:54] <jadew> theBear, yeah, when I started doing better games, I only used sprites
[11:34:58] <theBear> i did my final highschool programming project in quickbasic with the svga lib, graphics toolbox kinda program
[11:35:09] <twnqx> megal0maniac: the c64 runs of +5v + +12v, iirc
[11:35:09] <jadew> I did some games with programatically drawn shapes, but they were supper slow
[11:35:14] <twnqx> i am powering them from old PC psus
[11:35:18] <megal0maniac> MrM0bius: Probably very little. I'm 80% sure that they think it's just an old keyboard
[11:35:21] <theBear> back in those days, it was kinda 'special' to convert a graphic format or edit graphics :)
[11:35:30] <twnqx> just get the schematics and check :P
[11:35:37] <theBear> jadew, mmm, games you needed tricks, like how c64 had sprites
[11:35:41] <twnqx> or wait, was it the 1541 i powered like that
[11:35:51] <jadew> theBear, yeah that's how I learned asm
[11:35:52] <megal0maniac> twnqx: I might. Was just checking whether it would be worthwhile
[11:36:00] <theBear> mmm, i forget the voltages, but c64 had that HUGE powerbrick (actual brick size and weight) and pretty sure it was dc outputs
[11:36:14] <twnqx> theBear: it has 9vac on the "user port"
[11:36:19] <twnqx> so i guess there's more :P
[11:36:25] <theBear> psus are easy to make, all these years of repairs, gimme a photo of the components near the dc input and i can probably tell you what to do for anything
[11:36:55] <megal0maniac> "According to
http://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/VC-20#Technische_Details there are 2 versions: an older one which only outputs 9V AC (the VC-20 generates all other voltages internally) and a newer one which is identical to the C64 one."
[11:37:20] <megal0maniac> And I remember 9vac from looking at it :/
[11:37:21] <theBear> you're talking to a guy that has examined a VERY expensive giant old audio desk, built a 350w+ supply under commission, then plugged it in and turned it on without sweating :)
[11:37:43] <twnqx> theBear: can you teach me about SEPIC converters?
[11:37:44] <megal0maniac> theBear: What type of audio desk? :)
[11:37:53] <theBear> twnqx, i dunno, what does SEPIC stand for ?
[11:38:05] <twnqx> uh, single ended primary inductance converter
[11:38:13] <twnqx> a particular switching power supply topology
[11:38:20] <theBear> megal0maniac, trident t24, late 70's at a guess (i forgot the details) ... about 36 channels including returns, plus masters
[11:38:32] <twnqx> i haven't figured out the calculation for the compensation circuit and am guessing :X
[11:38:46] <twnqx> it is working, though.
[11:38:52] <theBear> twnqx, ok.. lemme think for a moment... single ended, primary indctance... hmmm, lemme peek at a wide wide world of web and i tell you
[11:39:19] <twnqx> i spent about two weeks
[11:39:27] <twnqx> googling, reading datasheets and whitepapers
[11:39:35] <theBear> ok, it's a buckboost with a flipflopper at the end.... watcha wanna know about it ?
[11:39:47] <megal0maniac> http://sleepingelephant.com/denial/wiki/images/1/1d/VIC_side.jpg
[11:39:57] <twnqx> there are two types of controllers for it, voltage mode and curent mode
[11:40:01] <theBear> or kinda integrated flipflopper i spose
[11:40:10] <theBear> yep, like all switchers, go on
[11:40:22] <twnqx> let me find a .pdf on my hdd
[11:40:40] <theBear> fwoo, is that 9vac on a fig8 connector ? that's asking for trouble
[11:41:32] <megal0maniac> No, it's some proprietary thing
[11:41:37] <theBear> while we're at it, is this just an exercise, or you actually need buck AND boost ?
[11:41:48] <twnqx> i needed and implemented it
[11:42:23] <theBear> cool, so what's the question ? if you already got working values and general timing, then you jsut gotta decide if you deviate the timing by voltage or current feedback
[11:44:02] <twnqx> http://www.ti.com/product/lm5001 is the chip i used
[11:44:28] <twnqx> there's a document called snva168d.pdf "designing a sepic onverter", too
[11:44:56] <twnqx> anyway, the schematic for the compensation in the lm5001 datasheet seems to contradict the description
[11:45:30] <twnqx> 'cause according to some sources i found it's the schematic for voltage mode control, while the chip is supposed to be a current mode control
[11:45:59] <twnqx> and generally, in every document i found, the formulas given didn't match the example values given :X
[11:46:19] <twnqx> and since... well, i am not an analog designer
[11:46:33] <twnqx> i don't really have a clue what all the text is about
[11:47:08] <jadew> theBear:
http://dumb.ro/files/ticball.png - that's a game I wrote as a kid, in asm
[11:47:25] <jadew> I used the vertical sync of the display for the delay routine
[11:47:37] <jadew> of course that doesn't work anymore and the game ends as soon as you start it
[11:47:49] <theBear> well think about it like this, yer gonna have feedback either mode, and the feedback for a circuit/chip is always a SMALL proportion of the total output, current or voltage based.... to convert a current to a voltage you just gotta put it thru a resistor, to convert a big voltage to a small voltage, you just gotta put it thru a pair of resistors (divider)
[11:48:04] <twnqx> yes
[11:49:17] <twnqx> the compensation is all about frequency response
[11:49:21] <twnqx> the voltage divider feedback is trivial once you know the reference voltage
[11:49:52] <theBear> mmm, frequency comes down to things like expected load change rates, acceptable '
[11:49:57] <theBear> 'ripple' and stuff like that
[11:50:06] <twnqx> no
[11:50:18] <theBear> no ?
[11:50:19] <twnqx> switching frequency is constant in PWM type voltage regulators
[11:50:35] <theBear> yeah, but you aren't anywhere near the switching end, your feedback comes from the filtered dc end
[11:50:49] <twnqx> yes
[11:50:56] <theBear> and is high/lowpassed to get the things i mentioned a moment ago
[11:51:29] <theBear> for example if you lowpass it heavily, you can tolerate bigger momentary loads, at the expense of mroe droop during them
[11:51:51] <theBear> on the other hand if you didn't lowpass it, those bigger momentary loads might trigger overcurrent shutdown
[11:52:17] <twnqx> aahh i think THIS is the one
[11:52:34] <jadew> or make it oscillate if they try to compensate too, right?
[11:52:52] <twnqx> no.. it's not
[11:52:57] <theBear> jadew, if you go too far, or hit a resonant freq in your feedback loop yeah
[11:53:22] <jadew> I had this happen with my home made load and home made psu
[11:53:23] <theBear> of course, all this theory doesn't stop the stupid computer by my leg from powercycling trying to startup
[11:53:49] <jadew> if I started the load at say 500mA, it would start oscillating, but if I started it at 100 and slowly went to 500, it was fine
[11:54:03] <theBear> i got some new ideas to try, but turns out that updating a mid-age atx supply to work with modern super-high 12v and 5vsb current lines is less than easy
[11:54:16] <twnqx> there it is
[11:54:30] <twnqx> national semiconductor application note an-1286
[11:54:50] <theBear> been reading, err,
http://www.faqs.org/docs/electric/Semi/SEMI_8.html the last day or so... i know it's basics, but i never went ot electronics-school, and it's helped fill in a lot of my grey areas on opamps
[11:55:21] <twnqx> http://www.ti.com/litv/pdf/snva067c
[11:56:07] <twnqx> the very first equation on page 2 leaves me totally stumped.
[11:57:04] <twnqx> http://www.ti.com/product/lm3478 in the application notes section is what i was trying to solve
[11:57:14] <twnqx> calculating the inductors and capacitors - trivial
[11:57:30] <twnqx> i even made a .ods spreadsheet for that
[11:57:38] <twnqx> but those compensation networks...
[11:58:38] <theBear> erm, that is a pretty complete document
[11:59:18] <twnqx> yes.
[11:59:25] <twnqx> i just don't understand it.
[12:00:18] <theBear> hmmm, i'd just go thru the calculations until i was unsure of a value then ask for help, or try a few values and see if i could workout what i desired them to be in MY application
[12:00:24] <twnqx> well
[12:00:29] <twnqx> the equations, even in this example
[12:00:33] <twnqx> document*
[12:00:37] <twnqx> don't match the examples.
[12:01:06] <theBear> if you got it working, you could even go backwards, do load/output tests and just work on any areas that don't fit your needs
[12:01:20] <twnqx> yes, i could
[12:01:32] <twnqx> i even have a document on noise injection, and i prepared my board for it, ietc
[12:01:41] <twnqx> but i prefer to understand first
[12:01:57] <theBear> i was thinking more load changes than noise, but i supppose the same applies
[12:01:58] <twnqx> and the only time i had contact with analog electronics was...
[12:02:00] <twnqx> hm
[12:02:01] <jadew> you want to add noise to it?
[12:02:05] <theBear> just easier to quantify with fixed changes
[12:02:12] <twnqx> 20 years ago, at two semesters in university
[12:02:30] <twnqx> well, 18 or so.
[12:02:34] <theBear> jadew, in these areas, noise is just a blanket equivalent of quickly randomly changing load
[12:02:54] <jadew> I see
[12:02:59] <twnqx> call it "add noise immunity" instead of "add noise" and you nailed it
[12:03:08] <twnqx> so you add noise to test the immunity
[12:03:14] <jadew> got it
[12:03:30] <theBear> and that immunity equates to 'niceness' of output under 'bad load' conditions
[12:04:03] <twnqx> well, my circuit outputs 4.97 - 5.00 v on the 15V - 3V input range
[12:04:18] <jadew> I suppose that translates to a fast response on the output and a decent decoupling cap
[12:04:21] <theBear> well that's pretty good
[12:04:33] <twnqx> no, you never have fast response with sepics
[12:04:43] <twnqx> even though mine runs at ~1mhz
[12:04:49] <theBear> well, fast is relative
[12:06:21] <jadew> twnqx, it would be interresting to see the output on a scope, maybe you'd like to post some pics when it's done
[12:06:37] <twnqx> i don't own a scope.
[12:06:47] <jadew> ah
[12:07:02] <twnqx> and i deviated wildly from the reference deisgn
[12:07:16] <twnqx> alone for the fact that i used a coupled inductor
[12:07:31] <jadew> I was never able to get a nice enough output from a smps
[12:07:54] <jadew> (I only used one, in one project, but did try it several times outside of the project)
[12:08:00] <twnqx> i wouldn't run audio from it
[12:08:16] <jadew> so instead I'm using the smps to output enough above a linear regulator's input + smps noise under load
[12:08:40] <twnqx> stability is mainly a function of output capacitor size and quality
[12:08:46] <jadew> so if I was to output 5v, I'd do 8v out from the smps + voltage regulator
[12:08:49] <twnqx> my caps were... expensive
[12:09:23] <jadew> I guess that might matter too
[12:11:11] <twnqx> input and transfer capacitor 60ct each, output capacitor 1.40€
[12:11:11] <twnqx> yey, ceramic capacitors..
[12:11:42] <twnqx> and i already relaxed to x5r from the original x7r i wanted :/
[12:12:33] <jadew> now that's another thing that would be interresting to see on a scope, how the different caps affect the output
[12:13:17] <twnqx> well, these are pretty low ESR
[12:13:30] <twnqx> 3mOhm or so
[12:13:40] <twnqx> (at given voltage and switching frequency)
[12:15:13] <twnqx> meh, my desktop hangs
[12:15:41] <twnqx> [32452.583499] nfs: server 192.168.2.9 not responding, still trying
[12:15:41] <twnqx> [36540.914488] nfs: server 192.168.2.9 OK
[12:15:44] <twnqx> wow.
[12:17:53] <jadew> looks like a software issue, for me, the hdd locks up randomly
[12:18:09] <jadew> had to unplug it and plug it back before I could get access to it
[12:18:18] <twnqx> nah, i had to reboot the machine
[12:18:20] <jadew> (external hdd)
[12:18:25] <twnqx> just took... long for the desktop to notice :P
[12:19:04] <twnqx> also
[12:19:10] <twnqx> this gin-tonic didn't have enough tonic
[12:19:14] <jadew> I eventaually made a script that checks if the hdd is still working and turns a relay off and on, then remounts
[12:19:30] <jadew> basically power cycling the hdd
[12:19:52] <twnqx> that happened to the server's OS disk earlier today
[12:19:54] <jadew> it's one of those western digital external hdds - so be aware
[12:20:08] <twnqx> didn't matter for the NFS drive array though
[12:20:46] <twnqx> was funny to see - OS: dead, service: running eprfectly
[12:21:21] <theBear> just finished that not-ready-for-desktop article... the guy is in uninformed ass
[12:21:45] <theBear> i don't exactly have broad experience like a writer should, but i know a lot more than he does
[12:21:50] <twnqx> regardless - who was the canadian i was talking to about eagle upgrades? :)
[12:23:12] <twnqx> tzanger it was!
[12:24:13] <jadew> theBear, thing is, I did face most of those problems, it's possible he's just like me and doesn't know the entire story, however, that strengthens the point that it's not ready for the Desktop
[12:24:33] <twnqx> what? freebsd? solaris? i'll happily agree!
[12:24:35] <jadew> I had an issue with the resolution on one monitor till a few days agoo
[12:24:39] <theBear> maybe, but his arguments are misinformed and poor
[12:24:54] <jadew> the fix was some obscure setting
[12:25:03] <theBear> the only bit i can wholley agree with is that windows also isn't ready for mainstream desktop use :)
[12:25:04] <jadew> which I found on some random forum
[12:25:15] <jadew> heh
[12:25:34] <jadew> as for bsd, I wanted to try a live CD of PCBSD on friday
[12:25:48] <jadew> it didn't want to boot and when I rebooted, my raid array was fucked up
[12:26:03] <jadew> had to wait like 2 hours for it to rebuild
[12:26:14] <twnqx> lol
[12:26:19] <jadew> that's not normal for an OS...
[12:26:21] <theBear> i do know i'm much happier when i get tech calls for non-windows systems of ANY kind than windows ones... everything from ancient cnc machines with no gui or shell up to modern computers, phones and devices.... windows makes me sad, so i avoid it
[12:26:56] <theBear> jadew, not normal, but i've seen the same thing happen in windows, just like his point number 1 in general linux problems upsets me
[12:27:24] <megal0maniac> Mine still isn't booting :/
[12:27:32] <jadew> that's true
[12:27:33] <megal0maniac> Gets stuck at starting sshd
[12:27:37] <megal0maniac> (Which doesn't start)
[12:27:38] <theBear> number 3 of general linux problems is pretty much the reason i personally use gentoo exlusively, but apart from source based distros, that point applies to ALL os's, including windows
[12:27:47] <theBear> megal0maniac, i thought fsck fixed that ?
[12:27:48] <twnqx> gentoo \o/
[12:28:16] <megal0maniac> theBear: It fixed something, but not anything that was causing errors
[12:28:24] <theBear> heh
[12:28:32] <theBear> you got bootlogs you can inspect ?
[12:28:35] <megal0maniac> echo debstar > /etc/hostname fixed the only error I was getting
[12:28:41] <theBear> not just dmesg/console
[12:28:52] <megal0maniac> I don't know. Do I?
[12:28:52] <jadew> megal0maniac, what's the issue you're having?
[12:29:05] <megal0maniac> jadew:
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5FvBaCu9
[12:29:06] <theBear> maybe checkout /var/log/messages or /var/log/everything/current for a start
[12:29:24] <twnqx> how long do you wait before giving up?
[12:29:33] <theBear> recent kernels can do a full bootlog before the logger starts, but i don't know the details
[12:29:37] <megal0maniac> On an arm box running debian wheezy. And 15mins didn't fix it
[12:30:00] <megal0maniac> It's definitely stuck
[12:37:22] <megal0maniac> No useful logs. There's a faillog which is a line of spaces. lastlog is the same
[12:48:18] <megal0maniac> Screw it. I need to be working on an assignment anyway :/
[13:27:05] <bitd> Does delay_us() use timer0?
[13:27:16] <jadew> no
[13:30:49] <twnqx> it just produces nops until the time is consumed.
[13:31:37] <jadew> it's a loop
[13:33:01] <twnqx> sssshh
[13:33:26] <twnqx> i wanted to add "or your code space is consumed, whichever comes first" :(
[13:33:41] <jadew> :P
[13:38:12] <ambro718> hello, can someone confirm that the programmer "Diamex AVR ISP" can be used to program chips with 128k flash? I'm asking because I currently have the USBTinyISP and it can't do that.
[13:38:57] <jadew> which chips?
[13:39:33] <ambro718> jadew: 1284p
[13:39:46] <tzanger> twnqx: ?
[13:40:26] <twnqx> get me in touch with your eagle dealer :P
[13:40:41] <tzanger> twnqx: no problem, check privmsg
[13:41:27] <jadew> ambro718, they don't seem to mention ISP in their datasheet
[13:42:16] <bitd> thanks jadew, twnqx
[13:42:21] <ambro718> jadew: you mean the atmega1284p doesn't mention ISP? Well it does have ISP for certain, I've programmed it with ISP already (some other programmer).
[13:42:34] <bitd> Found my problem.
[13:42:44] <twnqx> you put in a too high number?
[13:42:49] <twnqx> and it switched to 1ms?
[13:42:58] <bitd> Nope :P
[13:43:03] <bitd> Not even going to share this one <.<
[13:43:17] <ambro718> the USBTinyISP appears to work but the result is broken due to an address bit being discarded
[13:43:30] <twnqx> come on, we all have out embarrassing moments with those tiny silicon thingies
[13:43:31] <jadew> ambro718, in that case I don't know why it wouldn't work
[13:44:12] <jadew> it's probably badly written
[13:44:23] <ambro718> usbtiny page even says "Works with any AVR ISP chip with 64K of flash (or less) - does not work with Atmega1281/1280/2561/2560"
[13:44:51] <bitd> twnqx, I didn't disable some timer interrupts from timer0 before going into my wait time :P
[13:45:21] <twnqx> harmless
[13:45:22] <twnqx> :P
[13:46:58] <ambro718> ok, the official page of that diamex programmer does list ATmega1281 as supported (which has 128k flash), so it's probably all right for 1284p
[13:53:17] <fx> Hi avr peeps. I've got a question about a Minimus32k and its usage with Arduino attachInterrupt() function
[13:53:44] <fx> I can't seem to attach an interrupt function to the built in button HWB, also, all the pin numbers are out of whack
[13:56:51] <RikusW> ask in #arduino ?
[13:57:19] <fx> Ok, thanks
[14:46:46] <kdehl> How much current can you pull from an HC595?
[14:47:32] <kdehl> Ah, 70 it says. Nvm, I found it.
[14:47:58] <kdehl> I just saw an example of someone driving 8 LEDs directly from the chip. Thought it was a little risky.
[14:59:12] <prpplague> kdehl: it depends on the 595 part
[14:59:34] <prpplague> kdehl: in general, the rule is that you should not sink more 20mA per data pin
[14:59:57] <prpplague> kdehl: driving a 7 segment display with decimal point is a typical usage for a 595
[14:59:59] <prpplague> doh
[15:41:35] <asteve> <3 ssd
[16:06:39] <OndraSter__> asteve, everybody does :)
[16:06:39] <OndraSter__> I went from WD6400AAKS as my system drive to Crucial m4
[16:07:00] <asteve> seven segment display
[16:07:06] <asteve> but yes, I do <3 solid state disks
[16:15:47] <OndraSter__> ohh lol
[16:47:27] <RikusW> does anyone know whats the equivalent of _select on windows ?
[16:53:12] <Tom_itx> what's it do?
[16:55:31] <tzanger> I'm gonna guess it selects. :-)
[16:55:56] <tzanger> RikusW: are you talking POSIX select() or something else entirely?
[17:00:22] <RikusW> yes
[17:00:25] <RikusW> posix
[17:00:41] <theBear> windows does posix since about nt 3.5
[17:00:52] <RikusW> seems there is not easy equivalent on windows
[17:01:05] <RikusW> in WIN32 API anyways...
[17:01:22] <RikusW> theBear: posix don't like HANDLEs
[17:01:49] <theBear> erm, ok... i never done much posix stuff
[17:02:08] <RikusW> basically I want to get data from 2 comports at the same time....
[17:02:19] <RikusW> maybe just poll it in a loop....
[17:03:00] <RikusW> don't have the time to mess with overlapped stuff now
[17:08:14] <Tom_itx> RikusW, i did one where it would pull data from a com port, log it and send it out another
[17:08:23] <Tom_itx> is that what you want?
[17:08:29] <Tom_itx> it was a dos app though
[17:08:37] <Tom_itx> log 3 files
[17:08:44] <Tom_itx> in out and both combined
[17:08:47] <jadew> RikusW, there should be select() in windows
[17:08:56] <RikusW> thinking of changing setcomtimeouts
[17:09:07] <RikusW> and polling in a loop with Sleep(10:
[17:09:09] <RikusW> );
[17:09:17] <RikusW> its ugly but should work...
[17:09:19] <Tom_itx> what do you need it for?
[17:09:29] <RikusW> reading from two comports
[17:09:33] <jadew> RikusW:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms740141%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
[17:09:39] <Tom_itx> RikusW, to capture?
[17:09:44] <tzanger> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-ca/library/windows/desktop/ms740141(v=vs.85).aspx
[17:09:46] <tzanger> does that compare?
[17:09:50] <jadew> it's the same as the posix one
[17:10:07] <RikusW> jadew: not sure that will work on HANDLEs
[17:10:31] <tzanger> yes but you probably do the same thing as fileno() or dup() to convert a handle over
[17:10:31] <jadew> file handles?
[17:10:31] <RikusW> Tom_itx: I have an app using com0com and then a real comport
[17:10:36] <tzanger> GetStdHandle perhaps
[17:10:51] <Tom_itx> this probably wouldn't work then
[17:11:05] <theBear> the link mentions "socket handles" are the things that it deals with
[17:11:16] <Tom_itx> i wanted to use a pc to capture the conversation between 2 devices
[17:11:24] <tzanger> yeah
[17:11:36] <jadew> yeah, it's mainly used for non blocking socket operations
[17:11:36] <RikusW> and want to transfer data both ways...
[17:11:36] <tzanger> _get_osfhandle(fileno(fd)) is the reverse
[17:11:42] <Tom_itx> and this .com app does that really well
[17:11:46] <tzanger> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa364952(v=vs.85).aspx maybe
[17:12:12] <tzanger> now I must shower. you made me touch microsoft APIs.
[17:12:14] <RikusW> seems that is for winsock..
[17:12:16] <theBear> heh
[17:12:18] <RikusW> heh
[17:12:33] <jadew> RikusW, are you trying to use it on a file?
[17:12:44] <jadew> because I havea feeling it might work
[17:12:48] <jadew> *have
[17:12:48] <RikusW> unfortunately WaitForMultipleObjects don't work on file handles
[17:13:04] <jadew> if it's for a file, it should work
[17:13:32] <Tom_itx> wanna look at this?
[17:13:44] <Tom_itx> it may not run well under windows, i dunno
[17:14:15] <beaky> hello
[17:14:23] <RikusW> hi
[17:15:30] <Tom_itx> howdie
[17:16:47] <beaky> http://codepad.org/Lrmp6ryo I have written a simple C program to control my pet avr through two buttons, but once I hit each button once, it no longer responds to the interrupts and changes state :( Is there something wrong with my program?
[17:17:08] <Tom_itx> must be
[17:17:31] <beaky> ah
[17:17:44] <Tom_itx> pet avr?
[17:19:11] <RikusW> lol
[17:19:39] <jadew> RikusW, I think you might have to go with this:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365788%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
[17:20:14] <jadew> my suggestion is to use boost::asio
[17:20:22] <RikusW> heh I did use named pipes before getting hold of com0com
[17:20:23] <beaky_> hello
[17:20:46] <Tom_itx> i don't see moving_forwards() moving_backwards() defined anywhere
[17:21:06] <beaky> but I defined them at lines 4 and 9
[17:21:18] * Tom_itx hates _BV
[17:21:31] <beaky> I thought using named pins and _BV was a good idea :(
[17:21:33] <Roklobsta> why
[17:21:44] <theBear> mm, what's a _BV do ?
[17:21:46] <RikusW> jadew: trying to avoid overlapped stuff, never worked with that before...
[17:21:46] <RikusW> and don't have time for trial and error right now
[17:21:47] <RikusW> might eventually have to use that though
[17:21:51] <Tom_itx> i just prefer the old way
[17:21:53] <Roklobsta> in soviet russia _BV hates you!
[17:22:05] <jadew> RikusW, is this for serial?
[17:23:00] <beaky> _BV looks awfully cryptic
[17:23:08] <RikusW> jadew: yes
[17:23:16] <jadew> are you using boost?
[17:23:20] <RikusW> no
[17:23:22] <beaky> that's why it's bad maybe; everyone knows what x << n does; _BV communicates nothing
[17:23:27] <jadew> RikusW, do you have it?
[17:23:31] <RikusW> no
[17:23:36] <jadew> well, you should get it :P
[17:23:42] <Tom_itx> beaky, it's just a visual thing but i just don't like it
[17:23:48] <beaky> ah
[17:23:54] <beaky> so my code is perfect? :D
[17:23:59] <Tom_itx> no
[17:24:00] <jadew> it makes this a lot easier and it cross compiles
[17:24:01] <Tom_itx> it doesn't work
[17:24:04] <jadew> and I can help you with code
[17:25:33] <beaky> there is probably a logical reason why my code is broken... :(
[17:25:39] <RikusW> ok
[17:25:39] <RikusW> thanks
[17:26:03] <Tom_itx> why do you need a function call just to say 'for(;;);' ?
[17:26:28] <beaky> ah good catch I guess I can remove that
[17:28:51] <jadew> sorry it's not commented, I didn't feel the need too, it's pretty much self explanatory, but you'll need boost and you'll have to replace some custom exception throwing with the standard ones
[17:28:56] <jadew> std::exception should do
[17:29:39] <jadew> the way you'd use it is by derriving from SerialPort and overriding onData and onReadError
[17:34:17] <ambro718> what's the difference between atmega644 and -644p?
[17:34:28] <Tom_itx> lower power
[17:34:57] <ambro718> if I have software designed for 644p will it run completely unmodofied on 644?
[17:35:04] <Tom_itx> should
[17:35:08] <ambro718> ok, great
[17:35:50] <Tom_itx> the p could have a couple extra registers but i dunno
[17:36:00] <Tom_itx> should be the same
[17:58:09] <RikusW> ADSL messing around again :S
[17:58:21] <jadew> did you get the url?
[18:16:00] <RikusW> yes
[18:16:07] <RikusW> got the url
[18:17:36] <jadew> cool and I was saying that if you find out what's the deal with the buffer issue under nix, please drop me a line
[18:17:51] <RikusW> will do
[18:18:01] <RikusW> I need to fix my buggy lib sometime
[18:18:13] <RikusW> when I find the bug will let you know
[18:18:27] <jadew> I don't think it's a bug in your lib
[18:18:31] <RikusW> jadew: used SIM900 before ?
[18:18:37] <jadew> as I said, I got the same issue using boost
[18:18:42] <RikusW> bug in the kernel driver then ?
[18:18:45] <jadew> nope, but I wanted to buy a module, I still might
[18:18:50] <jadew> RikusW, most likely
[18:19:03] <RikusW> I'm using embedded AT on it
[18:19:08] <RikusW> EAT :)
[18:19:19] <RikusW> got the compilers for it
[18:19:27] <RikusW> seems gcc will work as well
[18:19:35] <jadew> nice
[18:19:45] <RikusW> and I did a RPC lib for it
[18:19:57] <RikusW> now I can call api's inside VS
[18:20:11] <jadew> that's pretty nice
[18:20:14] <RikusW> much easier to debug that way since there is no jtag
[18:20:33] <jadew> binary envelope for the data I suppose
[18:20:50] <jadew> (for rpc)
[21:35:39] <ambro718> I'm trying to use the ArduinoISP program to flash an atmega1284p (not an Arduino), but I'm stuck. I always get "programmer not in sync, resp=0x15" and/or "programmer is not responding". I've verified that the serial communication works, just not actual programming. The chip running the ArduinoISP is also not an Arduino, it's an atmega644, for which I've modified the Sanguino files to install a bootloader and get Arduino running on it (demos work
[21:35:40] <ambro718> all right).
[21:36:19] <Casper> there is no such thing as an arduino µC
[21:36:36] <Casper> they are all atmega based
[21:37:02] <ambro718> yes, I know, I said I turned an atmega644 into an "arduino"
[21:37:02] <Casper> check fuses and crystal fuses. Also, be sure that you compiled the bootloader for the right clock speed
[21:37:50] <ambro718> Casper: for the atmega644 which runs the ArduinoISP, I've got the bootloader right, the leds demo works at the proper frequency
[21:38:27] <ambro718> the atmega1284p which is being programmer is all right, it works with another programmer (well, kind of, that programmer is half broken because it can't support chips with 128k flash)
[21:40:09] <Casper> may want to aim to #arduino
[21:40:16] <ambro718> I'm asking there too :D
[21:40:47] <Casper> arduino.. the board are ok... but the library... about the worst code possible
[21:44:23] <Tom_itx> why not get a programmer that just works
[21:44:38] <GuShH> Casper: amen
[21:44:56] <ambro718> I'm... impatient :D
[21:45:13] <Casper> Tom_itx: like your? :D
[21:45:35] <Tom_itx> well...
[21:45:37] <Tom_itx> of course
[21:45:43] <Tom_itx> :)
[21:46:07] <ambro718> perhaps there is ISP software that doesn't use the hardware SPI?
[21:46:15] <Tom_itx> i did finally get a new batch of blue ones done
[21:49:37] <Tom_itx> why wouldn't it?
