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[04:13:32] <vectory> hey, i dont have permission to access ttyACMx, but my user is in the dialout group. what am i missing?
[04:13:37] <vectory> using avrdude :)
[04:23:18] <Valen> using sudo ;->
[04:24:05] <vectory> yeah, i just figured, i should log out once, to apply the group change :)
[04:40:20] <vectory> RikusW: hey, can you give me a heads up?
http://paste.ubuntu.com/5628563/
[04:40:48] <vectory> trying to read the signature of attached mega8. hope i connected it correctly
[05:10:41] <RikusW> will have a look now
[05:11:01] <RikusW> vectory: was busy elsewhere, not ignoring you ;)
[05:11:33] <RikusW> try stk500 if you're using ISP
[05:11:48] <RikusW> stk500pp is for the U2S bootloader only
[05:13:13] <RikusW> (seems my ttyACM0 isn't even in dialout, there isn't a udev rule yet...)
[05:13:24] <RikusW> using Linux Mint Nadia
[05:14:19] * RikusW was reading up on code signing, seems getting a certificate is rather expensive, $550 for 2 years...
[05:14:41] <RikusW> from Thawte, Verisign charges $850...
[05:20:12] <RikusW> vectory: tried using stk500 instead of stk500pp ?
[05:25:42] <specing> RikusW: convergence.io
[05:25:56] <RikusW> specing: whats that for ?
[05:26:07] <specing> the certificate system is broken anyway, no need to spend $$ on getting one
[05:26:21] <specing> RikusW: A web-of-trust implementation
[05:26:59] <specing> Also why are you using Linux Mint?
[05:27:42] <specing> I have Gentoo on my new box, recompiled it all with -march=core-avx-i and its so fricking fast I can't keep up with it
[05:28:09] <RikusW> heh
[05:28:12] <RikusW> don't have AVX
[05:28:46] <specing> how..is...that..possible?
[05:29:11] <specing> Do you have a core 2 or something?
[05:29:16] <RikusW> G2020 cpu
[05:29:48] <RikusW> will get something better later
[05:36:52] <RikusW> vectory: use stk500v2
[05:38:27] <specing> RikusW: G2020 doesen't support AVX? 0.o
[05:41:47] <RikusW> no :/
[05:41:58] <RikusW> ark.intel.com
[05:42:26] <RikusW> i5 3570K seems nice, and expensive...
[05:42:51] <RikusW> i3 3225 is the only one i3 I could find with HD4000
[05:44:55] <specing> I bought the 3470
[05:44:57] <specing> i5
[05:51:43] <OndraSter> 3570k is nice :P
[05:51:50] <OndraSter> but I ain't upgrading from my 2500k
[05:52:01] <OndraSter> 4core is fine right now :P
[06:01:02] <RikusW> Control 1024 RGB LEDs With Only 3 Wires
http://www.elektor.com/news/control-1024-rgb-leds-with-only-3-wires.2457109.lynkx
[06:01:32] <RikusW> afaik 3570k is 4 core as well
[06:01:47] <RikusW> i7 is 4 core 8 threads it seems...
[06:02:00] <OndraSter> ye, HT and such
[06:02:08] <RikusW> how much does hyperthreading help anyways ?
[06:02:31] <RikusW> I've heard its turned off on clusters to improve performance....
[06:02:41] <OndraSter> depends on the applications
[06:02:53] <RikusW> megal0maniac
http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home/STK500
[06:03:02] <RikusW> the first few lines was updated
[06:03:08] * megal0maniac has discovered that proxy authentication is sent over the network in base64 encoded plaintext...
[06:03:13] <megal0maniac> Hello Wireshark :D
[06:03:35] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Cool :)
[06:04:48] <Valen> nice
[06:05:18] <Valen> HT can help, but with actual multicore cpu's much less
[06:48:26] <Tom_itx> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Engineering_Calculators_and_Tools.aspx
[06:54:11] <Tom_itx> for all the 'app' fans:
http://www.electronicproducts.com/Computer_Systems/Standalone_Mobile/Explore_the_sky_with_a_live_zoomable_map.aspx
[07:15:37] <Horologium> fun stuff there Tom_itx
[07:16:25] <Horologium> aahh analog bandpass filters.
[07:16:36] <Horologium> I remember having to calculate those manually years ago.
[07:16:51] <Horologium> used walkie-talkies to make multiple channel remote controls.
[07:17:11] <Horologium> using 2-transistor oscillators for the transmitter side to generate tones
[07:17:29] <Horologium> and bandpass filters at the receiver end to differentiate the signals.
[07:17:53] <Horologium> and, did that when I was 14.
[07:18:55] <tzanger> that looks like an awfully complex circuit for putting 12V/5V on reset
[07:19:59] <Horologium> oh well..time for worky.
[07:25:57] <RikusW> tzanger: my 12V/5V circuit ?
[07:26:26] <RikusW> I prefer the ST662 one
[07:26:42] <RikusW> the other is straight from the STK500 schematic
[07:27:18] <RikusW> It got one advantage, low output impedance
[07:27:29] <RikusW> (or disadvangtage for noobs...)
[07:31:47] <tzanger> RikusW: the megau2s page there
[07:32:07] <tzanger> 6 transistors to switch reset between 12/5/gnd
[07:42:29] <amee2k> http://www.livestream.com/electrocat << if you want your character in the new FangCon poster, hop in and drop a ref sheet in the chat box!
[07:46:27] <tzanger> RikusW: I wasn't saying YOUR design was off. :) I'm just saying it seems excessive
[07:46:37] <tzanger> (the stk500 one)
[07:48:18] <tzanger> the u2s is actually pretty nifty, it's a bunch of devices in one
[07:53:42] <RikusW> thanks :)
[07:53:58] <RikusW> its atmel's design btw ;)
[07:54:07] <RikusW> the lots of transistors
[07:54:23] <RikusW> and it needs external 12V...
[07:54:35] <RikusW> ST662 makes things much simpler
[07:55:52] <RikusW> Got to know of the ST662 thanks to Tom_itx
[07:56:03] <RikusW> very nice to have IC
[07:56:46] <RikusW> tzanger: then you should see all of those transistors on breadboard :-P
[07:57:02] <RikusW> somewhat messy
[07:58:47] * RikusW is busy coding some NMEA parsing code
[08:05:31] <MrTrick> RikusW: ooh nifty, what for?
[08:06:06] <RikusW> programming AVRs
[08:06:27] <RikusW> http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/
[08:06:33] <RikusW> even debugging
[08:06:38] <RikusW> jtagice mki
[08:07:11] <RikusW> will use loopback comports to make a virtual mkii sometime then AS6 will work with it too
[08:07:49] <RikusW> (partly done on the basic framework of that, AS already seems to think its talking to a mkii)
[08:08:03] <RikusW> (only for ISP mode)
[08:10:07] <RikusW> MrTrick: this in particular proved handy for testing PWM setup without reflashing every time
http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home/debug-module
[08:12:36] <MrTrick> huh, what does that have to do with NMEA?
[08:13:00] <RikusW> thats a seperate project for GPS
[08:13:13] <RikusW> U2S was made 2 years ago
[08:13:20] <RikusW> I have like 100 of them
[08:19:13] <MrTrick> so what does it do? Like a bus pirate?
[08:19:38] <RikusW> sort of
[08:20:09] <RikusW> my Debug mode allows writing say PORTB = 0; in Visual studio and thats sent to the AVR via USB
[08:20:22] <RikusW> you can even read it like v = PINB;
[08:20:39] <RikusW> or load a custom application onto it
[08:20:58] <RikusW> the modules are loaded just below the bootloader, so out of the way
[08:21:28] <RikusW> the custom app can easily make use of the USB CDC driver in the bootloader too
[08:24:20] <MrTrick> hmm, okay. :-) A bit abstract for me.
[08:25:01] <RikusW> ever used an AVR simulator or OCD debugger ?
[08:27:14] <MrTrick> usually over debugWIRE on an AVR dragon
[08:28:13] <RikusW> well my debug mode mimicks that without actually having a dragon
[08:28:24] * RikusW does have an actual dragon too :)
[08:28:40] <RikusW> though there is some serious speed limitations...
[08:28:56] <RikusW> but it works just fine for testing register setup
[08:29:28] <RikusW> I used classes and operator overloading to make it work
[08:29:39] <RikusW> the code is on my site
[08:29:58] <RikusW> and xslt to generate the register header...
[08:30:24] <RikusW> no way I'm typing in all of that ...
[08:36:27] <MrTrick> yeah, fair enough. ^_^
[08:37:13] <RikusW> fortunately the xml parts files comes with AS
[08:37:17] <MrTrick> I tend to accomplish the correct register settings through reading the documentation, and swearing at it.
[08:37:52] <metalliqaz> hahaha
[08:37:59] <metalliqaz> me too
[08:38:06] <metalliqaz> and lighting up LEDs
[08:38:08] <RikusW> I could actually make debug code available for all AVRs in that way :)
[08:38:29] <RikusW> just don't have the time for that right now...
[08:38:36] <metalliqaz> what I find annoying is that AVRs with JTAG tend not to implement DEBUGwire
[08:39:02] <RikusW> its either but NOT both..
[08:39:14] <RikusW> whats wrong with JTAG ? too many pins ?
[08:39:16] <MrTrick> hmm, weird.
[08:42:01] <metalliqaz> JTAG is tougher to implement
[08:42:22] <metalliqaz> the DEBUGwire is on the same lines as ISP6, and those are usually not used for I/O
[08:42:32] <metalliqaz> JTAG is on I/O pins
[08:42:39] <metalliqaz> so you can't use them and debug at the same time
[08:42:44] <RikusW> dW is on reset
[08:42:51] <RikusW> only one line
[08:42:54] <metalliqaz> right
[08:43:19] <RikusW> metalliqaz:
http://ruemohr.org/docs/debugwire.html
[08:43:33] <metalliqaz> yes i know
[08:43:37] <metalliqaz> but my part has JTAG
[08:43:46] <RikusW> JTAG was actually quite easy to implement, if its for only one chip
[08:43:52] <metalliqaz> i think it uses PORTF
[08:44:02] <RikusW> http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/jtag
[08:44:10] <RikusW> there is asm code for jtagice mki
[08:44:12] <metalliqaz> you see? you can't use the IO port and use JTAG on it
[08:44:25] <RikusW> thats a bit unfortunate yes..
[08:44:45] <RikusW> my mki supports new AVRs too
[08:44:58] <RikusW> but avrdude / avarice will need some convincing
[08:45:30] <RikusW> weirdly AS4 allows programming but no debugging say m324
[08:47:06] <metalliqaz> JTAGICE3
[08:49:13] <RikusW> nice to have that one
[11:44:21] <KebabBob> whee, first pcb order from oshpark done
[11:55:46] <OndraSter> KebabBob, you wanted purple ENIG PCBs eh? :)
[11:56:31] <OndraSter> btw I found some time ago another chinese PCB manufacturer - elecrow. They do any colour for the same price as green
[11:56:31] <OndraSter> $9.99/5x5, $24.99/10x10 (no 10x5 option)
[11:56:31] <OndraSter> any colour
[12:56:05] <RikusW> OndraSter:
http://www.elecrow.com/wireless-c-78/misc-c-78_123/sim900-module-4-frequency-p-364.html
[12:56:08] <RikusW> I use this one
[12:56:20] <RikusW> easy to solder too
[12:57:03] <RikusW> but I get it for $22 here
[12:57:43] <OndraSter> :)
[12:58:42] <RikusW> ZAR 175 + 14% VAT
[12:58:58] <RikusW> at www.otto.co.za
[12:59:00] <Corwin> any chance someone here would know about ready to use 134.2khz RFID tag reader module?
[12:59:09] <Corwin> btw, hi everyone
[12:59:26] <OndraSter> hi :)
[12:59:56] <RikusW> I'm using its Embedded AT feature
[13:00:00] <RikusW> hi
[13:00:24] <RikusW> done RPC code that seems to be working quite well so far
[13:02:30] <RikusW> Corwin: google ? ;)
[13:02:59] <Corwin> google talks about 125khz or 13 point something mhz
[13:03:05] <Corwin> not much stuff about 134.2
[13:03:06] <Corwin> khz
[13:04:35] <Corwin> and when i find something it points to module from itead studio.... which is out of stock
[13:10:12] <RikusW> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/24481/134-2-khz-rfid-reader-for-arduino
[13:11:14] <RikusW> http://www.rfidinfotek.com/detail/rfid-1342-khz-handheld-reader/434.html
[13:11:16] <RikusW> a bit expensive
[13:11:32] <Corwin> yes, complete readers are expensive
[13:13:16] <RikusW> http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/rfid-reader-134.2khz.html
[13:14:52] <Corwin> something like
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/529041244/RDM630_Small_size_125KHz_134_2KHz.html preferably with antenna coil too
[13:15:03] <Corwin> thats what i would like to have
[13:16:16] <Corwin> RDM660 would be better... thats for 134.2khz
[13:18:18] <RikusW> seems there are too many too choose from now :-P
[13:35:23] <KebabBob> Where do you guys buy avrs from?
[13:35:40] <KebabBob> I'm looking at digikey and there's waaayy too many part numbers for the same chip, same package
[13:37:41] <amee2k> farnell, or the MyAVR shop
[14:00:05] <jacekowski> KebabBob: digikey
[14:04:53] <tzanger> KebabBob: example?
[14:05:05] <tzanger> KebabBob: their part numbering is actually pretty sane
[14:05:26] <tzanger> you have to check packaging options, there are usually 2 or 3 package options (tape and reel, digi-reel and cut tape)
[14:11:26] <RikusW> RS also got AVRs
[14:11:47] <RikusW> and DIP SOIC TQFP QFN
[14:14:08] <tzanger> yeah I've noticed Radio Shack in the US (The Source up here in Canada) is really trying to come back into the hobbyiest electronics market
[14:14:08] <tzanger> the source up here is definitely not, they're just a wannabe best buy or future shop
[14:23:22] <RikusW> RS != Radio Shack
[14:24:00] <RikusW> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/
[14:24:38] * RikusW use -> http://za.rs-online.com/web/
[14:29:02] <RikusW> http://www.rs-components.com/index.html
[14:30:59] <RikusW> RS in USA ->
http://www.alliedelec.com
[14:31:07] <tzanger> oh
[14:31:11] <tzanger> that's much less interesting. :-)
[14:32:23] <TeknoJuce01> what is the green/etc colour called on circuit boards
[14:32:38] <RikusW> soldermask
[14:33:05] <TeknoJuce01> what is it made from?
[14:33:22] <RikusW> not quite sure, but its hard to remove
[14:33:59] <RikusW> silkscreen applied soldermask is an epoxy
[14:34:19] <RikusW> normally photo imageable soldermask is used now
[14:36:15] <TeknoJuce01> how would you want to apply something like that in a home hobby based environment is there any quick hackey ways to do something like that like the toner transfer method for etching ?
[14:37:16] * RikusW would like to know that too
[14:37:33] <RikusW> have a look on youtube
[14:37:42] <RikusW> you're bound to find something
[14:38:52] <tzanger> I've never applied soldermask in a home setting
[14:39:32] <tzanger> if you really need to do that you can use something like RTV to cover the areas you don't want masked and use conformal coat, I expect that'd work just fine
[14:39:52] <tzanger> you could use anything that dries quickly and doesn't conduct... spraypaint, white out...
[14:47:42] <TeknoJuce01> whats rtv tzanger
[14:47:56] <Tom_itx> silicone
[14:54:34] <tzanger> you don't want to use RTV, it corrodes a little (which might not be terrible, but there is pink resist goop that they use specifically for this purpose)
[16:39:09] <Qantourisc> ATMEGA8-16PU has 1 uart ... are there any with 2 ? Or should I just work half-duplex ?
[16:39:37] <LoRez> one uart can do full duplex by itself.
[16:39:44] <LoRez> that's sorta the point.
[16:40:01] <Qantourisc> I mean on the physcial wire
[16:40:41] <Qantourisc> Hmmm but uart can't use rs-485 chips because of the requirement to set some pins high and low ?
[16:41:23] <megal0maniac> I know the 644/1284 have dual uart
[16:41:42] <Qantourisc> yea just found another model with 2 uart
[16:41:57] <Qantourisc> Didn't check yet how you assign an uart to pins
[16:43:31] <LoRez> what? you still only need a single uart
[16:43:42] <RikusW> Qantourisc: m162 m164 324 644 1284
[16:43:47] <RikusW> tiny1634
[16:43:51] <LoRez> you don't assign a uart to pins, they can only use the pins they're attached to.
[16:44:04] <Qantourisc> LoRez: ow
[16:44:14] <LoRez> you can do rs485 with the built in uart if you use a 485 driver on it
[16:44:32] <Qantourisc> Some architecures allow you to attach component X to pin Y
[16:44:40] <RikusW> Qantourisc: just set the RXEN and TXEN bits
[16:44:51] <LoRez> not AVRs.
[16:44:54] <Qantourisc> allowing you to chooce for example between 4 A/D's and 10 IOS :)
[16:44:59] <Qantourisc> LoRez: apearently :)
[16:45:52] <OndraSter> screw mega, get xmega :D
[16:45:54] <OndraSter> 3 UARTs even on the smallest chips
[16:45:54] <OndraSter> or was it 4 UARTs...
[16:46:47] <LoRez> multiple uarts ARE NOT NECESSARY TO DO RS485
[16:46:47] <jacekowski> you can do it with 1 softuart
[16:46:47] <Qantourisc> LoRez: i know, but what happens if you are using 4 wires ?
[16:46:47] <OndraSter> they are fixed
[16:46:47] <LoRez> Qantourisc: you don't know what rs485 is, do you?
[16:46:47] <jacekowski> Qantourisc: that's RS422 and it's still one uart
[16:46:54] <jacekowski> Qantourisc: it's differential transmission
[16:46:58] <Qantourisc> LoRez: you can either use RS485 with 2 wires, or 4 wires
[16:47:00] <jacekowski> Qantourisc: one pair for rx, one for tx
[16:47:03] <jacekowski> Qantourisc: NO
[16:47:17] <LoRez> 4 wire 485 is called 422
[16:47:31] <jacekowski> Qantourisc: RS485 - 1 pair, RS422 - 2 pairs
[16:47:35] <jacekowski> and it's PAIRS not wires
[16:47:38] <LoRez> and those are differential signals, whereas the uart spits out TTL
[16:48:01] <jacekowski> there is LM chip with funny number i can never remember that does the conversion
[16:48:04] <Qantourisc> my bad on that one then :)
[16:48:38] <LoRez> you can do 485 with a single uart (hard or soft) and in fact if you can deal with it in software, the RX will just see everything you transmit if you don't disable the incoming buffer
[16:48:47] <OndraSter> isn't rs485 actually a differential pair?
[16:48:47] <OndraSter> or is it different one
[16:49:10] <LoRez> 422 is two differential pairs, 485 is 1 that talks in half duplex
[16:51:43] <Qantourisc> Maybe I should just use half-duplex, full-duplex adds more timing issues :)
[16:51:54] <LoRez> what?
[16:52:01] <LoRez> how does it do that?
[16:53:06] <Qantourisc> Well I could send, on the T channels, and then i'd need to wait for a reply on the R channel (multi-drop). Or I could already send on again, and risk some other slave starting to talk why the other slave is talking :)
[16:53:30] <Qantourisc> So on that regard, duplex will only make things more complicated (imo)
[16:53:35] <LoRez> if you have a multidrop connection, it has to be half duplex.
[16:54:19] <Qantourisc> Not persi IMO: you could agree to communicate in full-deplex with 1 device for a while, or you could send while you are busy receiving the input of your previous command.
[16:54:48] <Qantourisc> But things get complex fast then
[16:54:53] <LoRez> you could concievably run it full duplex if all the slaves were all wired backwards to the single master, but you can only address one thing at a time, ever, in either senario
[16:55:04] <Qantourisc> Correct
[16:55:06] <LoRez> so there aren't any timing issues
[16:55:47] <Qantourisc> When I mean timing issues, I just mean: harder to do
[16:56:13] <LoRez> no, it's not harder, it doesn't have any affect at all in fact.
[16:56:33] <LoRez> the effect is that you have to run more pairs, that's it.
[16:56:34] <Qantourisc> then i'm confused on the protocol you are suggesting
[16:57:14] <LoRez> I didn't suggest any protocol.
[16:59:03] <LoRez> if the slaves are going to respond, you have to wait for them to do so pretty much no matter what. it doesn't matter if they're on a different pair to the master's TX pins or not.
[17:00:20] <Qantourisc> Think I see where the dicussions is originating from: I'm assuming single commands to slaves, you are assuming a communication-for-a-while between slave and master ?
[17:00:33] <LoRez> no, I'm not making any assumptions.
[17:01:48] <LoRez> if you send a RRC (command that requires a response) to slave 1, then immediately RRC slave 2, the two slaves will talk over each other in either wiring methodology.
[17:01:57] <Qantourisc> "you have to wait for them to do so pretty much no matter what" <= Hmm think you are right there, didn't take that into consideration yet :) Otherwise you end up sending a command, and then sending an OK to send to the slave :)
[17:02:09] <Qantourisc> LoRez: indeed
[17:02:34] <Qantourisc> ok that last sentence is misphrase :/
[17:02:58] <LoRez> good luck, I'm going home.
[17:03:26] <Qantourisc> LoRez: good trip
[17:04:11] <Qantourisc> thx for feedback, I now see i dont have to bother will full-duplex for this case
[17:19:10] <abcminiuser> Oh sweet
[17:19:20] <abcminiuser> I have a prototype virtual debug channel extension kinda working
[17:19:48] <abcminiuser> So I can send strings from an application into a studio output window via the debugger only
[17:29:51] <OndraSter> :)
[17:34:29] <RikusW> anice
[17:47:05] <megal0maniac> Yay! Debian lives
[17:48:19] <OndraSter> heh
[18:18:23] <antto> has anyone managed to use Code::Blocks with avrgcc?
[18:19:13] <antto> i have a project which comes with a makefile, i've used winavr and programmers notepad, i can build it there
[18:19:26] <antto> but i prefere Code::Blocks because it's my main IDE
[18:19:48] <antto> or maybe i should ask at #codeblocks instead
[18:35:10] <RikusW> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_debug_values#Magic_debug_values
[18:38:54] <OndraSter> RikusW, why didn't you link it during the semester, while I was trying to debug C++ code? :P
[18:39:31] <OndraSter> all the MS code is actually pretty useful
[18:43:05] * RikusW EA15 some deadbeef :-P
[18:43:19] <RikusW> *5033
[18:51:59] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Wireless password at Uni starts with beef face :P
[18:52:05] <megal0maniac> (WEP)
[19:57:29] <edman007> so I got an AVR connected to the SPI bus, anyone know of a linux utility that will program my AVR on the onboard SPI bus? I really don't want to write one
[19:59:05] <CapnKernel> SPI interface or ISP? The pins are confusingly named the same
[19:59:55] <edman007> well... because they are the same basically, I want to use the SPI interface for ISP
[20:01:12] <edman007> I got a reset wired to a GPIO in linux, so I should be able to program it through the SPI bus, and then flip the RESET and communicate to it over SPI
[20:02:24] * edman007 takes a crack at making avrdude work
[20:14:15] <Casper> edman007: hack avrdude, you might even be able to just hack someting with the config file
[20:14:46] <edman007> yea, trying that now
[20:15:11] <edman007> and holy crap, 700Mhz ARM is slow at compiling...I need to get a cross compiling setup working, lol
[20:15:33] <Casper> hehe
[20:46:42] <edman007> sweet, some already made a patch for AVR dude, but some reason they bitbanged it instead of actually using the SPI stuff on the chip... all well
[20:52:25] <edman007> http://project-downloads.drogon.net/gertboard/avrdude-5.10-bb-gpio.patch incase someone needs
[20:52:27] <edman007> it