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[00:36:25] <ptrkOP> Can I program the arduino in AVR studio with standalone AVRC
[00:43:18] <Xark> ptrkOP: Sure.
[00:43:44] <Xark> ptrkOP: Arduino AVR has "optiboot" bootloader (usually), but you can blow that away (and put it back later if needed).
[00:44:37] <Xark> ptrkOP: You may want to download the contents first (and jot down the fuse settings).
[00:45:26] <ptrkOP> Can I do it over USB on the Arduino board by itself? Or do I need a programmer?
[00:45:49] <Xark> ptrkOP: Note I am assuming you have an ISP programmer...(however if you don't you can still use AVRC, you just have to use avrdude to upload to AVR).
[00:46:05] <ptrkOP> Yea all I have is the arduino board
[00:47:51] <ptrkOP> I just want to plug in the Arduino board and use AVR studio to program it
[00:47:53] <Xark> ptrkOP: OK, I suggest this. Go in IDE preferences and enable "verbose compile" and "verbose upload". Then upload "blink" sketch and note the avrdude command the IDE uses. This will be how to send a "hex" file to AVR and ahead of it will be an "avr-objcopy" line that converts elf (exe for AVR) to hex file for avrdude.
[00:48:24] <Xark> ptrkOP: Then you can use AVRC normally, and do those commands on the ELF made by AVR Studio (and if you want put those commands in makefile, batch file etc.)
[00:48:57] <Xark> ptrkOP: AVR Studio does not have a "upload to Arduino" option AFAIK. So you need to upload "manually".
[00:49:12] <ptrkOP> Ok I will try to figure it out from your instructions
[00:49:50] <Xark> ptrkOP: It is not really too difficult.
[00:50:00] <Xark> ptrkOP: I bet you can find more info via Google...
[00:50:05] <ptrkOP> Will do
[00:50:08] <ptrkOP> Thank you for your help
[00:50:49] <Xark> ptrkOP: No problem. Check out
http://www.engblaze.com/tutorial-using-atmel-studio-6-with-arduino-projects/
[00:51:31] <Xark> (looks like it adds custom command to IDE to upload)
[03:17:48] <Qantourisc> arduino VS a chip ?
[03:18:14] <bitd> Qantourisc, what do you mean?
[03:18:49] <Qantourisc> putting a chip on a breadboard / PCB vs getting an arduino board and repogramming that ?
[03:20:00] <Qantourisc> bitd: like X-ark and p-trkOP where talking about (putted a - in the name to not highlight them)
[03:21:02] <bitd> Ahh oke, fell in mid conversation then <.<
[03:21:46] <Qantourisc> bitd: no not really
[03:22:04] <Qantourisc> I'm wondering the cons vs pros of reusing arduino
[03:22:14] <Qantourisc> (and using it like a plain AVR chip :p)
[03:22:24] <Qantourisc> wait nvm
[03:22:30] <Qantourisc> with a plain hip i can make my own pcb
[03:23:21] <bitd> Ah, well I just use avrdude to program the chip on the arduino, so I upload plain C code and no arduino code.
[03:23:54] <bitd> Then when I am done prototyping, I just take another atmega, program it on the arduino board, and rip it out of the socket. Place it on a pcb with a xtal and thats all.
[03:24:24] <Qantourisc> ow ?
[03:24:29] <Qantourisc> witch arduino ?
[03:24:31] <bitd> So I use the arduino as a programmer and prototyper, sort of the poor mans STK500.
[03:24:37] <Qantourisc> was going to get one of those dev-boards
[03:24:39] <bitd> Duemilanove.
[03:24:59] <bitd> Sure, you could get a stk500, but those are pretty costly.
[03:25:00] <Qantourisc> I wanted to get a STK500 :)
[03:25:27] <Qantourisc> Duemilanove <= don't see it
[03:26:03] <bitd> http://arduino.cc/en/Main/arduinoBoardDuemilanove
[03:27:36] <Qantourisc> bitd: that's too small :)
[03:28:19] <Qantourisc> bitd: unless i limit myself to 28dip :p
[03:28:52] <Qantourisc> but the stk is more expensive yes
[03:28:53] <bitd> Ah, yes. Then the STK500 might be needed :P
[03:29:40] <Qantourisc> Can it be used to code other chips ? :p
[03:29:50] <Qantourisc> problay not differnt pin layout
[03:30:06] <bitd> Correct, that would be a problem =)
[03:30:11] <Qantourisc> You can place 2 chips on it ?
[03:31:36] <bitd> Nope, just one.
[03:32:11] <Qantourisc> http://www.elec.uow.edu.au/avr/images/stk500_photo.jpg
[03:32:18] <Qantourisc> confused on the 2 serial and many socket s:)
[03:32:24] <Qantourisc> sayyy ...
[03:32:47] <Qantourisc> arent' the 28pin and 40pin compatiblee ?
[03:33:03] <Qantourisc> wait no they are wider :/
[03:34:27] <bitd> Its pretty simple actually, thats the choice. You get a STK500, you can basicly program all the mcu's you might ever need (atmel that is). But it will set you back about a hundred. Orrr use the arduino at about 20 and you can only program a few mcu's.
[03:35:20] <Qantourisc> yes just figured out the dual sockets ting, different ships
[03:43:58] <nevdull> there's also the Dragon AVR board. it supports many 8-pin/16-pin/20-pin/28-pin/40-pin (iirc) without having to buy expensive daughter cards
[03:46:12] <bitd> Ah right the Dragon.
[03:48:30] <nevdull> sorry
[03:48:34] <nevdull> Dragon Rider 500
[03:48:41] <nevdull> not to be confused witht eh avr dragon from atmel
[03:48:51] <nevdull> http://www.ecrostech.com/
[03:49:44] <bitd> Well the AVR Dragon board is also a pretty good suggestion.
[03:50:11] <Qantourisc> that or breadboard and wires ? :p
[03:50:26] <bitd> Hah. Yeah you could always do that.
[03:50:48] <Qantourisc> does it connect to serial or ?
[03:51:13] <bitd> USB i believe.
[03:51:17] <Qantourisc> "AVRISP mkII"
[03:51:34] <Qantourisc> Does it work on linux ? :)
[03:52:18] <bitd> Well I believe the STK500 needs a serial connection. And then you need a (or if you have a comport) usb to serial addapter.
[03:52:37] <bitd> Well the dev environment from atmel, some versions work on linux.
[03:52:47] <bitd> I just the avr-gcc to compile and avrdude to upload.
[03:53:12] <nevdull> avrisp mkii i use on windows for the best integration with atmel studio, but on linux i use lady ada's usbtinyisp. the biggest difference besides firmware is the avr isp mk2 pulls its power from the board (so you have to have the board already powered) while the tinyisp supplies 5v to the board
[03:54:26] <twnqx> yey
[03:54:33] <twnqx> and what do you do if your board dies at 5V?
[03:54:52] <nevdull> i don't understand the question
[03:55:02] <twnqx> if your board is supposed to run at 3.3v
[03:55:17] <twnqx> and has components that can't handle more and start to smoke and burn if you apply 5V
[03:55:47] <nevdull> righto...well, xmega is definitely spec'd for the 3.3v range, but most all your megas/tinys are 5v tolerant
[03:55:57] <twnqx> that's IO
[03:56:18] <twnqx> but for stuff like the mkii i route my board's vcc to the ISP pin
[03:56:38] <twnqx> (i use a mki myself)
[03:57:02] <twnqx> i wouldn't want to have a programmer supply 5V to my 3.3V net...
[03:57:20] <nevdull> that's a good idea. all my boards have linear regulators that will step down 5v to 3.3v
[03:57:31] <twnqx> well
[03:57:37] <twnqx> i can only connect after the regulators...
[03:57:52] <twnqx> on some boards, where before regulator you find 12-20V...
[03:58:19] <nevdull> if you're connecting after the regulator then it doesnt seem like you'd be supplying regulated voltage to the board
[03:58:36] <twnqx> no, why would i...
[03:58:42] <twnqx> but i have to supply vcc to my programmer
[03:58:50] <twnqx> so i have the regulated 3.3v there
[03:59:12] <twnqx> just not sure if it's a good idea to have both :P
[03:59:32] <twnqx> as in, some programmers drawing power from the board, and some programmers supplying power to the board
[03:59:59] <Qantourisc> i would want neither :(
[04:00:15] <twnqx> like jtag?
[04:00:30] <twnqx> where you supply power to the upstream just for IO
[04:00:33] <nevdull> yah, that's why i go between using the tinyisp which supplies power and the avr isp mkII that draws power, depending on the board i'm using
[04:00:35] <Qantourisc> ad in programmer, and board is suppost to have their own power source.
[04:01:03] * twnqx found one design troublesome that only runs at 2.5V
[04:01:27] <nevdull> the board is probably parasitizing 5v from USB unless it has a dc wall wart delivering power
[04:02:01] <nevdull> 2.5v is an odd voltage isn't it?
[04:02:15] <twnqx> it's the secondary core voltage of spartan 3 fpgas
[04:02:19] <nevdull> aha
[04:02:22] <twnqx> with a primary of 1.2 or 1.8
[04:02:26] <twnqx> can't remember :P
[04:02:29] <nevdull> gotcha
[04:02:40] <Qantourisc> now i'm even more confused :)
[04:02:43] <twnqx> and i didn't want to run a third regulator... so i just went with 2.5V IO :P
[04:03:40] <twnqx> my jtag programmer doesn't care... opto insulated
[04:03:58] <twnqx> uses vcc from jtag for all IO, and for IO only
[04:04:49] <Qantourisc> PS if you would add DC in your house, what voltage would you pick ? :)
[04:05:02] <twnqx> probably 48
[04:05:11] <Qantourisc> hmm tomutch for a AVR :)
[04:05:25] <twnqx> true, but the currents would be insane otherwise
[04:05:29] <Qantourisc> yea
[04:05:42] <twnqx> i have seen the 48V cables in dtaa centers...
[04:05:44] <Qantourisc> If i'm to put power o nthe main bus
[04:05:55] <twnqx> you don't count diamaters in mm any more.
[04:06:18] <Qantourisc> I can't draw 100mA on the AVR's anyway
[04:06:39] <Qantourisc> I'll need an optocoupled TRAIC to power a relat :p
[04:06:43] <Qantourisc> *relay
[04:06:48] <twnqx> eh
[04:06:54] <twnqx> why relay if you have the triac already
[04:07:23] <Qantourisc> twnqx: you can find me a triac that doesn't run hot on 16A and can be driven by 10mA ?
[04:08:28] <twnqx> the "driven by" can be solved with a small mosfet
[04:08:31] <Qantourisc> seems like on twisted pair you only have 350mA :)
[04:08:55] <twnqx> first, why do you want to switch 16A
[04:09:02] <twnqx> turn the whole house on and off?
[04:09:09] <Qantourisc> twnqx: regulations
[04:09:28] <twnqx> i call bullshit
[04:09:42] <twnqx> i have tons of 10A fuses here
[04:09:50] <twnqx> noone tells you you can't put smaller fuses
[04:10:05] <twnqx> i don't have a 16A fuse in my amp
[04:10:11] <twnqx> i think that's 1A
[04:10:12] <Qantourisc> twnqx: Well then I still need 10A :)
[04:10:14] <twnqx> or maybe 2
[04:10:24] <twnqx> so put your own fuse in your switchbox
[04:10:31] <twnqx> and make it smaller
[04:10:44] <Qantourisc> pitty i will have melt fuses then :)
[04:10:52] <twnqx> what do you want to switch?
[04:10:58] <Qantourisc> anything :)
[04:10:58] <twnqx> that uses 2kW
[04:11:24] <Qantourisc> the problem is the twisted pair actually
[04:11:38] <Qantourisc> I'm planning on 5V or so twisted pair ... and 220
[04:12:27] <Qantourisc> that or just run a ticker 5V cable
[04:12:29] <twnqx> how many meters for the drivers?
[04:12:48] <Qantourisc> 0.5 ?
[04:12:49] <twnqx> you will have to calculate for the voltage drop over the cable if it gets longer
[04:12:51] <twnqx> ah
[04:12:55] <twnqx> ok, irrelevant
[04:12:58] <Qantourisc> twnqx: no
[04:13:07] <Qantourisc> twnqx: as the distance to the power supply is further :)
[04:13:23] <Qantourisc> driver to power-supply is like 20 meter or worse
[04:14:00] <twnqx> your design is very, very weird
[04:15:18] <Qantourisc> twnqx: that's because you are missing a piece :)
[04:15:40] <Qantourisc> I'm planning on starting from a central point, that provides 5V and is the master of the bus
[04:15:46] <Qantourisc> and the nodes connect to the bus
[04:16:00] <Qantourisc> would be handy to have the power on that same bus, so one only has to run 1 wire
[04:16:02] <twnqx> i'd drop that idea immediately
[04:16:07] <twnqx> 5V isn't enough for long runs
[04:16:16] <Qantourisc> depends on the current you are drawing
[04:16:57] <Qantourisc> but didn't do the voltage drop calc yet
[04:19:21] <Qantourisc> 8ohm for 100Meter
[04:21:15] <twnqx> 100mA draw @ 5V on the other side
[04:21:23] <twnqx> => 50 ohm
[04:21:26] <Qantourisc> So if i want to loose max 1V = 100mA yes
[04:21:32] <twnqx> 8ohm:50ohm voltage divider...
[04:22:03] <Qantourisc> 125mA = 1V on 100meters
[04:24:05] <Qantourisc> twnqx: but the AVR's on themself only need 350µA :)
[04:24:24] <twnqx> when no IO is active
[04:24:34] <Qantourisc> well there is the point yes
[04:24:39] <Qantourisc> either I get my IO VERRY low
[04:24:49] <Qantourisc> or i need a ticker wire / higher voltage
[04:26:03] <Qantourisc> twnqx: suppose i could just send 48V and use a voltage regulator
[04:26:12] <Qantourisc> no matter howmutch i'm burning, it would still be "ok" :)
[04:26:38] <Qantourisc> hmm or not :p
[04:26:47] <twnqx> i'd go for 12
[04:26:51] <twnqx> in your situation
[04:27:00] <twnqx> can have a lead battery backup power
[04:27:02] <Qantourisc> that's 6watt to disipate
[04:27:25] <Qantourisc> assuming you want to be able to draw 500mA
[04:27:27] <twnqx> regulators are easier to be had for that drop, 48V is a bit harsh
[04:27:55] <Qantourisc> actaully I should have a configurable voltage generator
[04:28:05] <Qantourisc> then i messure the longest distance
[04:28:09] <Qantourisc> and adjust voltage :p
[04:28:17] <Qantourisc> so i'm not burning trough stuff for nothing :p
[04:28:35] <Qantourisc> twnqx: ooo idea !
[04:28:45] <Qantourisc> let me do some math
[04:29:18] <Qantourisc> twnqx: I could actaully dubbel the amount of copper or quadruple (if i have a ground shield ) :)
[04:29:32] <Qantourisc> double -> 2ohm
[04:29:42] <Qantourisc> ooo wait 2ohmX2 :p
[04:30:17] <Qantourisc> in that case i got 250mA
[04:30:19] <Qantourisc> still not a lot :)
[04:30:33] <Qantourisc> but would allow me to go lower on voltage :)
[04:30:39] <Qantourisc> then again this is for 100meter :)
[04:30:50] <Qantourisc> 20 is probably worst case senario :p
[04:31:21] <Qantourisc> mwea i'll figure it out, but you make a good point twnqx
[04:31:27] <Qantourisc> i'd better have some judge on the ends !
[04:31:35] <Qantourisc> *juice
[04:35:24] <Qantourisc> twnqx: also wheren't you the one who said boring yesterday ? working on lower power is more of a challange ! :)
[04:36:38] <twnqx> i would drop a full AC power supply on each side and use some network traffic
[04:36:41] <twnqx> maybe just zigbee
[04:37:10] <Qantourisc> i hate wireless
[04:37:27] <twnqx> electric heating for pure power dissipation is so outdated
[04:37:50] <Qantourisc> "electric heating for pure power dissipation" <= don't understand
[04:38:03] <twnqx> low voltage, long distance
[04:38:06] <twnqx> => electric heating
[04:38:09] <Qantourisc> aaa :)
[04:38:21] <Qantourisc> true
[04:38:23] <twnqx> better get some superconductors!
[04:38:34] <Qantourisc> so either don't use a lot of power to start with :)
[04:38:43] <Qantourisc> or find a good way to bring down the voltage
[04:38:51] <Qantourisc> cause burning it on the ends isn't helping either
[04:38:52] <jigoe> Spi speed is set by the master right?
[04:39:15] <twnqx> yes, the master drives the clock
[04:39:29] <jigoe> Ok, I was just confused by some comment someone put in their code.
[04:39:40] <jigoe> Thanks for your help.
[04:49:39] <KebabBob> Hey guys.. I'm looking for something to sense if an ac line is on or off... I thought a tiny ac relay would come in handy, does anyone know a part I could use?
[04:50:10] <KebabBob> Basically I want to control 5v dc with 230v ac
[04:50:35] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: howmany amps :)
[04:50:49] <KebabBob> uhh.. 1mA? :)
[04:50:55] <KebabBob> Just for sensing really
[04:50:57] <Qantourisc> on the 230v side :)
[04:51:08] <Qantourisc> ow wait
[04:51:11] <Qantourisc> sendinging
[04:51:13] <Qantourisc> sensing ! :)
[04:51:17] <KebabBob> Yeah
[04:51:24] <Qantourisc> just use a voltage drop if you don't fear voltage spikes
[04:51:33] <Qantourisc> voltage diver :)
[04:51:34] <KebabBob> So basically no amps on the 230v, or just what the coil takes
[04:51:42] <Qantourisc> ow and a diode :)
[04:52:07] <KebabBob> hmm how so?
[04:52:18] <Qantourisc> 1 diode 1x 22kohm
[04:52:21] <Qantourisc> and euu
[04:52:37] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: 9 volt input ok for you ?
[04:52:42] <KebabBob> 22k and ~490
[04:52:45] <Qantourisc> oo wait
[04:52:45] <KebabBob> Sure, 9v should be ok
[04:52:46] <Qantourisc> sorry
[04:52:54] <Qantourisc> needs a condensor too :)
[04:52:59] <Qantourisc> sorry tomutch to calc atm :p
[04:53:03] <Qantourisc> busy :)
[04:53:04] <KebabBob> I was thinking there must be some tiny ssr or something I could use for this
[04:53:24] <Qantourisc> I'd do 1 diode, 2 resistors and 1 condensor
[04:53:38] <KebabBob> condensor? like a cap?
[04:53:38] <Qantourisc> on the other hand if it fails :)
[04:53:43] <Qantourisc> capacitor sorry
[04:53:50] <Qantourisc> but if it fails, you get 220V up your :)
[04:54:09] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: ow also ANY replay will do :)
[04:54:17] <KebabBob> I don't mind paying for a part that protects me from that. I just don't know what part that would be
[04:54:18] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: if you connect a AC relay (if those excist)
[04:54:29] <Qantourisc> just hook the 5v on the other side
[04:54:32] <Qantourisc> the coil doesn't care :)
[04:54:42] <Qantourisc> i mean the switch doesn't care :)
[04:54:52] <KebabBob> ah of course
[04:54:57] <KebabBob> I just need to find a small one
[04:55:08] <Qantourisc> also possible ity bity transformer
[04:55:26] <Qantourisc> and then some basic AC-DC convertion
[04:55:32] <Qantourisc> and design it for 1mA load
[04:55:33] <Qantourisc> :)
[04:55:44] <Qantourisc> and the ripple can be large :)
[04:55:53] <Qantourisc> just need to stay within your logical high
[04:55:59] <Qantourisc> maybe someone else has a better diea
[04:56:02] <Qantourisc> i'm a noob
[04:57:54] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: why do you want to know if there is volt anyway ?
[04:58:41] <KebabBob> Home automation project I'm working on
[04:58:52] <KebabBob> Stuff like "did I leave that light on?"
[05:01:31] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: ow, i'd do that differntly :)
[05:01:41] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: find yourself a solanoid
[05:02:12] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: run it over 1 wire
[05:02:21] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: mesure the amps it's using
[05:02:25] <Qantourisc> will need more experimenting
[05:02:26] <Qantourisc> but should work
[05:02:36] <Qantourisc> no clue howmutch volt you will get :)
[05:02:39] <Qantourisc> or amps
[05:02:40] <Qantourisc> not a lot
[05:02:43] <Qantourisc> but enough to messure
[05:03:04] <Qantourisc> bonus: if you hook it your A/D you can messure your power usage
[05:03:12] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: will also be doing home automation :)
[05:03:47] <KebabBob> I'm already measuring my power usage
[05:03:55] <KebabBob> I just want to know if something is on or not.
[05:04:29] <Qantourisc> KebabBob: well the easiest way to do that is messure it's power usage (unless its really small)
[05:04:34] <Qantourisc> then you probably don't care anyway :)
[05:04:41] <Qantourisc> i think
[05:04:49] <Qantourisc> well i'd consider that mode "cleaner" though :)
[05:05:34] <Qantourisc> that's how i'd do ot
[05:05:52] <Qantourisc> the again i'm also going to lay a bus and centralize everything :)
[05:06:00] <Qantourisc> so i don't need to know when something is on
[05:06:12] <Qantourisc> cause i know it is, because i'm controlling the relay that turns it on or off :)
[05:10:02] <Qantourisc> Note: the bus nodes will have local logic, so one can still turn on the lights when the master fails :)
[10:05:47] <megal0maniac> Quick question. I have a device which requires 3v3 level serial. How safe would it be to use 5v serial with 1K resistors?
[10:05:58] <OndraSter> 1k resistors means..?
[10:06:00] <OndraSter> divider?
[10:06:12] <megal0maniac> TX---1K----TX
[10:06:23] <OndraSter> you mean TX -- 1k -- RX
[10:06:33] <megal0maniac> Yes
[10:06:35] <OndraSter> you should do a divider
[10:06:38] <OndraSter> should.. :)
[10:06:45] <megal0maniac> :P
[10:06:54] <megal0maniac> In reality, what is the risk of killing it?
[10:06:55] <OndraSter> I did not use anything on xmega with 5V serial :D
[10:06:59] <OndraSter> hard one
[10:07:18] <ptrkOP> Does atmega328 have hardware SPI?
[10:07:28] <megal0maniac> Yip
[10:07:31] <OndraSter> yes
[10:07:34] <megal0maniac> And I2C and UART
[10:07:35] <ptrkOP> Awesome thank you.
[10:08:34] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: I got a small ARM computer. 1.2ghz, 256mb RAM, 128mb flash, 4x usb (integrated hub), gigabit ethernet
[10:08:56] <megal0maniac> For ~$37
[10:09:18] <megal0maniac> Runs Debian. Or OpenWRT :)
[10:09:55] <specing> megal0maniac: pogoplug?
[10:10:02] <ptrkOP> Is there ever a reason to big bang your SPI vs using the hardware. If so when and why
[10:10:11] <megal0maniac> specing: Close :P
[10:10:18] <megal0maniac> Seagate Docksta
[10:10:21] <megal0maniac> r
[10:10:26] <specing> megal0maniac: yes, close enaugh
[10:10:36] <specing> Does it have hardware SATA?
[10:10:56] <megal0maniac> Nope :)
[10:11:11] <megal0maniac> It isn't a cubieboard :P
[10:17:13] <specing> I would imagine a storage computer to have hardware sata...
[10:19:42] <megal0maniac> Well from what I've read, it was a bit of flop at doing what it's made to. And didn't sell well here at all because our internet is too slow
[10:20:09] <megal0maniac> It was designed for internet-accessible storage, so USB wasn't the bottleneck
[10:30:36] <megal0maniac> When you take the top cover off, the bottom cover just serves as sticky feet for the board. No extra footprint. It'll be a nice project :)
[10:31:15] <megal0maniac> Even has I2S
[10:33:22] <Rikus1> anyone ever played with hackintosh ?
[10:35:19] <megal0maniac> Me :)
[10:35:30] <megal0maniac> Got it working perfectly, except for USB wireless
[10:35:44] <megal0maniac> Oh and my motherboard was faulty :/ Waiting for a replacement now
[10:35:49] <megal0maniac> SSD is fine...
[10:36:25] <RikusW> ah
[10:36:33] <RikusW> nice
[10:37:03] <megal0maniac> What you want to know about Hackintosh?
[10:38:42] <RikusW> want to install it
[10:38:58] <RikusW> did you use virtualbox ?
[10:39:01] <megal0maniac> RikusW:
http://iatkos.me/forum/viewforum.php?f=77
[10:39:12] <megal0maniac> Nope, but I did give it a harddrive
[10:39:18] <OndraSter> I ran MAC OS X in vmware
[10:39:21] <OndraSter> but after 2 reboots it stopped booting
[10:39:22] <OndraSter> always :D
[10:40:17] <megal0maniac> Couldn't get it working in a vm, but it worked as well as a real mac when I installed it normally
[10:41:30] <RikusW> I'll gie it a try in VB
[10:41:43] <RikusW> VirtualBox not VB ;)
[10:42:13] <RikusW> megal0maniac: the iatkos link seems familiar, think I was there before just couldn't remember it
[10:42:16] <RikusW> thanks
[10:45:58] <megal0maniac> It's the best one if you're not familiar with the set-up. Pre-built with all the necessary boot managers and drivers etc for common set-ups
[10:46:10] <megal0maniac> I've got iAtkos ML2 on a dual layer DVD
[10:49:43] <megal0maniac> When I get my pc back... :)
[12:43:44] <TechIsCool> alright dumb question addition takes less time on an avr then subtraction?
[12:44:39] <twnqx> it... shouldn'T
[12:44:49] <twnqx> since it's essentially the same
[12:45:10] <Tom_itx> it takes less time on an avr than a pic
[12:45:53] <TechIsCool> http://pastebin.com/Htcx3mEL
[12:46:31] <twnqx> > delay_ms (2)
[12:46:38] <twnqx> > delay_us (250)
[12:46:48] <TechIsCool> That was to make them look the same
[12:47:04] <TechIsCool> when they where both set at 2ms the down takes about 3 times as long
[12:47:12] <TechIsCool> it appears to anyways
[12:47:24] <twnqx> that would mean that your instructions takes milliseconds
[12:47:40] <twnqx> i... doubt that, unless you run in sub-khz clock frequencies
[12:48:00] <TechIsCool> 16Mhz
[12:48:15] <twnqx> what is that even supposed to do
[12:48:19] <twnqx> with OCR1A
[12:48:48] <OndraSter> SUB and ADD both take single cycle
[12:48:59] <TechIsCool> when the door opens it turns the led on and brings the brightness to 255
[12:49:14] <TechIsCool> OndraSter: Alright that what I thought
[12:49:42] <twnqx> the cycle length should be identical
[12:49:50] <RikusW> TechIsCool: is might be due to gcc
[12:49:54] <twnqx> unlikel
[12:49:55] <twnqx> y
[12:50:02] <twnqx> up to impossible
[12:50:15] <RikusW> check out the disassembly
[12:50:22] <twnqx> for a perceived difference of 1.75ms per step
[12:50:23] <RikusW> and prepare to be horrified :-P
[12:50:40] <RikusW> sometime avr-gcc does dumb things
[12:51:16] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:52:07] * RikusW just downloaded Intel 64 and IA-32 Architectures Software Developer's Manual: Vol. 3B, System Programming Guide, Pt. 2
[12:52:18] <RikusW> all 7 of them :)
[12:52:29] <OndraSter> it is nice thing with a fast internet, isn't it? :D
[12:52:38] <RikusW> yep :)
[12:53:00] <Tom_itx> bet you can't read em that fast
[12:53:00] <RikusW> ...but the intel site is broken so I had to guess and manually enter some filenames ...
[12:53:13] <RikusW> like 2c 3b 3c links are broken...
[12:54:15] <RikusW> Tom_itx: lets develop a HOD device for downloading that ;)
[12:54:29] <RikusW> then we can all become very smart :-D
[12:54:40] <Tom_itx> or at least very well read
[13:52:54] <KebabBob> Hey guys.. I'm looking for something to sense if an ac line is on or off... I thought a tiny ac relay would come in handy, does anyone know a part I could use?
[13:53:32] <tzanger> use an opto
[13:55:58] <tzanger> a 6N137 is generic as hell and will work
[13:56:20] <KebabBob> cool, I'll look into that
[13:56:25] <tzanger> it's got an LED that you'd place across AC with a series resistor, and you should but a 1N4007 antiparallel with the opto LED
[13:56:41] <KebabBob> Just to clarify, I'm looking to control 5v dc (signal) with 230v ac
[13:56:43] <tzanger> (so you don't make the LED block 160Vpp when the AC line is on the ohter half
[13:56:50] <tzanger> KebabBob: that's not what you said
[13:56:56] <tzanger> you said "sense if an AC line is on or off"
[13:57:01] <tzanger> oh
[13:57:02] <tzanger> duh
[13:57:03] <KebabBob> Yeah I re-read it and it sounded vague
[13:57:05] <tzanger> yes that's exactly what you said
[13:57:14] <KebabBob> lol
[13:57:19] <tzanger> that opto I described will work great *if* you use a series resistor and antiparallel diode
[14:13:17] <jadew> what's an antiparalellel diode?
[14:13:21] <jadew> how do you connect it?
[14:14:14] <OndraSter> two diodes
[14:14:18] <OndraSter> in parallel
[14:14:23] <OndraSter> connected like.. flipped
[14:14:27] <jadew> ah, so they conduct byth ways?
[14:14:28] <OndraSter> antiparallel
[14:14:29] <OndraSter> yes
[14:14:45] <jadew> why would you need that tho, if all you want is to sense the line?
[14:14:58] <OndraSter> where do you have it?
[14:15:14] <jadew> can you just connect it with a resitor in paralel to the circuit?
[14:15:21] <OndraSter> depends on the circuit
[14:15:45] <jadew> why?
[14:15:52] <OndraSter> it might have some use
[14:15:57] <OndraSter> it is probably there for a reason
[14:16:23] <jadew> tzanger suggested the antiparalel diodes :)
[14:16:35] <jadew> I'm just trying to figure out if they're really needed and if they are, why
[14:16:57] <OndraSter> clipping?
[14:17:01] <OndraSter> I have not read the whole backlog
[14:17:25] <twnqx> jadew: because
[14:17:40] <twnqx> every diode has a maximum reverse voltage it can block before it is destroyed
[14:17:58] <jadew> twnqx, you're talking about the led in the opto coupler?
[14:17:59] <tzanger> jadew: an LED does not have nearly the same reverse blocking capability of even the cheapest rectifier diode
[14:18:06] <twnqx> so use the antiparallel diode to conduct before the blocking opto coupler LED dies
[14:18:07] <twnqx> yes.
[14:18:16] <jadew> why not use the diode in series with the optocoupler then?
[14:18:48] <tzanger> they're not designed to block. so when the AC line reverses polarity you have that diode blocking ~160Vpk on 120V nominal systems
[14:18:50] <twnqx> if you select one with enough blocking capacity...
[14:19:13] <twnqx> and that assumes US voltage, not 230V european :P
[14:19:13] <tzanger> so you use an antiparallel diode and let it conduct (through the same series resistor) on the reverse cycle; the LED never sees more than ~0.7V reverse voltage
[14:19:15] <jadew> I see, but where would it conduct tho?
[14:19:25] <tzanger> just like the LED, but it wouldn't light up :-)
[14:19:32] <jadew> giving that he's only trying to "sense" that doesn't imply something is acutlly using the line
[14:20:01] <twnqx> to turn on the LED he has to use the line
[14:20:02] <tzanger> L ---/\/\/---[diodes]--- N
[14:20:14] <jadew> ah, I see where you're going with this
[14:20:31] <jadew> when the voltage is reversed, the only power that gets consumed is by the resistor
[14:20:36] <jadew> so it's only one diode there
[14:20:37] <jadew> got it
[14:20:46] <jadew> makes sense now, thank you
[14:21:25] <tzanger> in industrial systems you usually see two resistors, one on either end of the diodes. electrically no different but gives additional isolation and makes it less "dangerous" should L and N be reversed
[14:22:05] <tzanger> resistors very very rarely fail shorted to begin with, but especially with unisolated systems you use two resistors for added protection
[14:23:20] <jadew> that's good to know
[20:31:32] <jadew> I wanted to try PC BSD
[20:31:58] <jadew> it didn't boot from the live disk and after restart my raid was screwed up and the system didn't boot up
[20:32:25] <jadew> it did boot up after a hard restart tho, but my raid is now rebuilding...
[20:33:11] <metalliqaz> that's no good
[20:34:02] <jadew> I'm glad I ran a backup before trying it, otherwise now I'd be freaked out
[20:35:59] <jadew> I realized there's going to be a problem the moment I saw the log and how it automatically mounted my drives, individually
[20:36:16] <jadew> (this happened on linux too, now it appears linux knows about soft raid tho)
[20:39:09] <Casper> yeah those trickbios raid... suck
[20:40:11] <jadew> yeah, but still, it's kinda silly that it doesn't support them after being out for so long
[20:40:16] <jadew> at the very least they should be ignored
[20:41:11] <jadew> I'm glad the rebuild process goes pretty fast, it's at 10% now
[20:43:02] <jadew> wonder what the hell it did to it tho
[20:43:51] <jadew> the damn thing didn't even want to start, it asked if I wanted to resize the "live" media and I said no, who knows what other damage it would have done
[20:44:03] <jadew> erase my pictures maybe...
[20:44:35] <jadew> (the raid is for work code) so it's clearly an evil os
[20:47:19] <jadew> seems to be doing about 1%/minute
[20:49:15] <Tom_itx> 99 bottles of beer on the wall...
[20:49:54] <jadew> well, only 80 bottles left by now :)
[20:51:01] <jadew> it's doing really well, I was expecting it to last several hours, but it will only take one hour and a half or so
[20:51:17] <jadew> it means it's processing almost 1Gb/s
[20:51:53] <jadew> wait...
[20:52:11] <jadew> 100Mb/s
[20:52:39] <metalliqaz> Tom_itx: i was poking around the sites in the Topic and i saw your CNC
[20:52:44] <metalliqaz> that thing looks awesome
[20:52:52] <metalliqaz> i want
[20:53:03] <metalliqaz> what have you made wit it?
[20:53:40] <jadew> it does look nice
[20:56:39] <Tom_itx> metalliqaz, did you see the recent updates on it?
[20:56:47] <metalliqaz> no, probably not
[20:56:51] <Tom_itx> i just finished a new psu and driver setup for it
[20:57:19] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[20:57:48] <Tom_itx> it's what i cut my programmer boxes on
[20:59:29] <Tom_itx> http://youtu.be/-CEqokrtFI4
[20:59:42] <metalliqaz> ooh cool
[21:00:06] <metalliqaz> you buy the basic box?
[21:00:13] <Tom_itx> yes
[21:00:43] <metalliqaz> omg want my own CNC so bad
[21:00:55] <metalliqaz> that thing looks serious though, must be expensive
[21:01:07] <Tom_itx> it's small
[21:01:13] <Tom_itx> i'd love a big one
[21:03:03] <metalliqaz> whats the max work size?
[21:03:14] <Tom_itx> about 7 x 9"
[21:03:47] <Tom_itx> it does ok on light stuff
[21:04:55] <metalliqaz> i recently tried to find some local places that would do some work for me
[21:05:04] <metalliqaz> they wouldn't even talk to me
[21:05:15] <metalliqaz> or they just quoted their min order price, which was like $600
[21:05:31] <metalliqaz> nowhere to get prototypes or 1-offs done
[21:05:40] <Tom_itx> online if you look
[21:06:18] <metalliqaz> i found emachineshop, but they are expensive too and you have to use their tol
[21:06:53] <metalliqaz> *tool
