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[03:43:52] * twnqx stares at quad IO SPI flash memories and wishes he had more pins on the AVR
[03:46:54] <OndraSter__> haha
[03:47:02] <OndraSter__> well you can not do it on AVR (quad SPI)
[03:47:05] <OndraSter__> in hardware
[03:47:26] <twnqx> true, you'd need four SPI blocks, running three in slave and one in master :P
[03:47:45] <twnqx> and i bet the bit shuffling afterwards would ruin the benefits
[03:47:55] <OndraSter__> oh
[03:47:58] <OndraSter__> yeah
[03:48:03] <OndraSter__> I did not think of it that way
[03:48:08] <OndraSter__> clocking yourself
[03:48:15] <OndraSter__> it would be possible on xmega, but putting it back together... nope
[03:48:17] <OndraSter__> not worth it
[03:48:42] <twnqx> and whoever i was talking to was right, spiclk is ioclk/2 max
[03:48:51] <OndraSter__> I did
[03:49:00] <OndraSter__> 8MHz on atmega (10MHz), 16MHz on xmega
[03:49:15] <twnqx> i am using 8 on the at90can
[03:49:16] <OndraSter__> the 16MHz on xmega maybe requires UART in SPI mode, regular SPI mode maybe doesn't have 2x option
[03:49:32] <twnqx> in x2 mode
[03:49:44] <OndraSter__> :)
[03:55:40] <twnqx> hm, 1.8V
[03:56:09] <twnqx> guess i have to change the 3.3V regulator for SPI for a 1.8V type then
[03:56:23] <OndraSter__> or get a 3.3V flash
[03:56:26] <twnqx> good a wide range level shifter is already in place
[03:56:48] <OndraSter__> usually there are 1.8 - 2.5V and 2.5 - 3.6V versions
[03:58:17] <twnqx> true
[03:58:29] <twnqx> this one is not available in 3.9mm SO8 as well
[03:58:33] <twnqx> so no point in using it
[04:05:18] <OndraSter__> what flash btw?
[04:35:28] <stanreg> Has anyone ever experienced generating a PWM on one port and having the other one generate a PWM as well, unintenionally?
[04:38:01] <OndraSter__> stanreg, no
[05:36:50] <OndraSter__> http://clip2net.com/s/4XE8OR
[06:00:53] * RikusW just shorted the 3v3 reg on 16u2, still works ;)
[06:03:01] <MrMobius> for now >D
[06:04:49] <RikusW> I connected 5V too it too
[06:05:10] <RikusW> forgot about the 3v/5v jumper and programmed it, supplying 5v into the reg...
[06:05:14] <RikusW> still works :)
[06:33:55] <theBear> the more i watch this new tv i didn't-really-fix the more undecided i am about what is/how to pursue the problem... when i got it the backlight was cycling forever, but tuning/sound etc worked fine... now (after some fiddling and rerouting the ccfl hv cables) it always initially turns on fine, shows the startup screen and sound, sometimers with backlight flickers or a corrupted line or 2, then tends to have the tuner side die but the backlight being fine.
[06:33:56] <theBear> .. i put it together after the reroute fix worked, and all other observations are assembled, and btw, once you convince it to turn on now, it works perfectly, for many hours at a time, you just gotta get it past the first 15 seconds or so, which still seem unnaturally influenced by things near the hv wires, particularly the position and location of the power and antenna lead...
[06:37:02] <theBear> i'm thinking now more of a systemic weakness in the big psu, altering the loss on the hv lines just altered the load enough to keep that bit running, but in reality something powering the logic/tuner is likely screwing up... hmmmmmm.... measurements i suppose... it's only about 14months old dated internally, so it PROBABLY isn't the electros :) that leaves things like drifty resistors and leaky hv ceramics, lots of fun to trackdown in a double sided, one
[06:37:03] <theBear> side complex smd, huge integrated switcher+inverter pcb :(
[06:38:57] <theBear> all my cffl/inverter study a few months ago should help here... around 120r resistor apparently makes a good test-load for your common 600-700v@6ma ccfl supply, i suppose i should try something around there, might have to fiddle a bit to get the right load to fool the protection, then when i'm sure that leakage isn't an issue, start to look for what the rails are doing
[06:40:01] <theBear> i SUPPOSE, if the hv leads or end of a tube maybe HAVE gotten so leaky that they can cycle the psu in certain (stock) positions, that now they're just-working that could be enough noise to just stall/reset the digital side... sometimes the 'simplest' faults are the most confusing
[06:40:14] <theBear> --<snip - end rant>--
[06:41:04] <Tom_itx> cold solder joints
[06:41:17] <Tom_itx> thanks to RoHs
[06:42:32] <Tom_itx> check the components with largish lugs first
[06:42:39] <Tom_itx> they soak up the heat
[06:42:45] <theBear> i dunno, when i WAS in there, the pcb seemed VERY comfortable with tapping and bending (not too much of course, don't wanna cause more problems) ... that's the only reason i picked up the hv wires issue/solution (it worked 100% as whatever the problem is 'warms up' and works, like i said) is because it was sensitive to where i rested my hand instead of ANYTHING in the circuit
[06:43:15] <theBear> c'mon man, i been a repairdude for a living most of the last 15 years, i don't need beginner tips like finding the design-fault cracked joints :)
[06:44:36] <theBear> i read a bit about diaelectric breakdown and flashthru kinda stuff... makes sense that ANY leakage on those LONG leads, very probably 700v either way each one, right across the back of the lcd, would slowly but surely make bigger and bigger holes allowing more to occur in the future
[06:45:33] <theBear> i've seen complete arcing leakage problems in various lcd repairs over the years, but never leads so leaky that just hand-proximity or running them along a ground plane made such a radical difference
[06:45:45] <theBear> yeah, that rant wasn't over at all :)
[06:46:34] <theBear> i should rejoin electronics, that was one of its great strengths, you could rant away and be both masked and generally not worried about, i feel bad about it in here, people do real stuff here :)
[06:48:11] <theBear> hmm, just had a novel idea for a way to process sound-identifying (like speech recognition for example) software
[06:48:25] * theBear has been sick in bed for a day and a half, bursting with energy now
[07:04:14] <iSaleK> Good day everyone :)
[07:15:42] <tzanger> hah
[07:15:45] <tzanger> we have our rants too
[07:20:10] <theBear> just that yours are usually more avr-related :)
[07:20:57] <RikusW> theBear: I'd still suspect the caps
[07:21:07] <RikusW> maybe the backlights themselves
[07:22:15] <RikusW> I've seen a lot of failed caps, usually there is a slight bulge, sometimes quite obvious or even leaking
[07:22:44] <theBear> no bulges, and they all look like new, i mean, less than a year and a half they'd have to be REAL duds, and the supply doesn't run that hot, at least not the top/non smd side
[07:22:49] <RikusW> And the occasional burst cap too, surge damage
[07:23:23] <RikusW> once heard a cap pop, had too high V applied
[07:23:33] <theBear> it'd be much easier if you didn't have to completely remove the stand to work on big lcd tvs :(
[07:24:10] <RikusW> engineers should become technicians for a few months, then that problem will be solved ;)
[07:24:30] <theBear> mmm, first ever rectifier/caps psu i built when i was young (transformer first of course) put a small hole in the plaster roof after a few seconds, narrowly missing my head :) seems i had glossed over the part of the book where the caps charge to 1.414 * the rms ac voltage
[07:24:58] <RikusW> heh
[07:33:03] <tzanger> nah I rant on electronics, politics, automotive issues, kids... AVRs don't actually offer too much to complain about. :-)
[07:33:27] <tzanger> RikusW: YES HOLY SHIT YES
[07:33:38] <twnqx> hm
[07:33:50] <twnqx> either i found a bug in gcc/avrlibc
[07:33:51] <tzanger> anyone in a design position should work closely with the test/repair department, then also spend some time on the road in applications engineering, pre-sales and support with the sales staff
[07:33:59] <twnqx> or something very stupid happened
[07:35:02] <twnqx> *idea*
[07:35:44] <twnqx> right. avr-libc doesn't whine if you throw an uint32_t into %d
[07:36:02] * twnqx is to used to gcc catching this sort of thing
[07:36:22] <theBear> tzanger, hehe, rants can be neutral, they don't have to be negative :)
[07:38:25] <tzanger> wow
[07:38:26] <tzanger> http://emerythacks.blogspot.ca/2013/04/connecting-ipad-retina-lcd-to-pc.html
[07:38:27] <theBear> hmm, anyone know what a 'real' commercial reflow oven/whatever setup is like ? just a chamber ? maybe a conveyer style process ? big/small, what kind/how much heating etc
[07:38:33] <tzanger> theBear: actuallY I do
[07:38:51] <tzanger> it's usually a heated nitrogen arrangement with multiple zones
[07:39:05] <theBear> wow, i really wasn't expecting that
[07:39:07] <theBear> please, go on
[07:39:37] <tzanger> it's about 10' to 15' long depending on the oven, with an opening about 2" tall and maybe 2' wide with a conveyor running through the middle
[07:39:56] <tzanger> the good ones have separate heaters on the top and bottom of that opening
[07:40:15] <tzanger> think of it as a longer continuous bake pizza oven
[07:41:51] <theBear> yeah, hmm, cool... approximation of length from start to finish ?
[07:41:55] <theBear> tiomewise
[07:42:46] <tzanger> I've never sat and watched it go. if I had to guess I'd say 10-20min
[07:42:53] <tzanger> they're not super slow
[07:43:00] <theBear> hmm cool....
[07:43:19] <tzanger> it really depends on the boards. if there's a lot of copper and the reflow profile is critical the conveyor speed changes
[07:43:36] <tzanger> I'm actually looking at the full service schematic for an HVN102
[07:44:02] <tzanger> I have a contract to replace the (ageing) electronics in it
[07:45:25] <theBear> mmm, i was just wondering ballpark, considering if a 'backyard household oven reflow' job would closely follow that, ie. if the larger plastic (reflowable) components would survive
[07:46:32] <tzanger> most people just use toaster ovens with a custom heater controller
[07:48:15] <theBear> i know, but i'm talking one-off for a last-ditch on a netbook
[07:48:23] <theBear> and i don't got a toaster over
[07:48:24] <theBear> oven
[07:48:50] <theBear> plus i've been thinking, a full size oven (while larger, but air seems to have low thermal mass) has a LOT more power and should be able to ramp up much quicker
[08:06:11] <blathijs> Bah, stupid compiler. It assumes that a load from a literal address is good, so it generates lds r24, 0x009A (which is 4 bytes) instead of ldd r24, Z+1 (which is possible since Z already contains 0x0099) :-S
[08:17:18] <RikusW> blathijs: now you know how "clever" avr-gcc really are...
[08:19:57] <tzanger> hm, digikey wants to send me free samples of AVRs because I bought the dragon. now I have to decide which part I want some samples of. :-)
[08:20:42] <specing> tzanger: how many?
[08:20:56] <tzanger> blathijs: have you played with compiler optimization settings? it may not figure it out but it'd be interesting to see
[08:21:11] <tzanger> specing: not sure, but free parts is free parts.
[08:21:30] <specing> tzanger: t2313, atmega32, atmega328, atxmega32u4 (tqfp), ...
[08:21:39] <specing> OndraSter will tell you more
[08:21:47] <tzanger> blathijs: you could also ask the gcc folk here, they might have more info
[08:21:56] <tzanger> specing: yes, did you get the same email?
[08:22:19] <tzanger> I'm thinking xmega
[08:23:03] <specing> I didn't order from digikey
[08:23:17] <specing> and neither have I bought the dragon
[08:23:21] <tzanger> it's probably an atmel promotion anyway
[08:23:26] <specing> (which seems ridiculous to me)
[08:24:01] <tzanger> I'm not a fan of the dragon, but it does hvsp which is a need in my application.
[08:24:10] <specing> dragon probably costs less than 10$ to produce
[08:24:28] <tzanger> I wrote up a big list of dragon potential and real issues
[08:25:11] <tzanger> specing: sure, but most programmers fall into that category. I don't mind $50 for a programmer but dragon seems over designed for what it is. and no case.
[08:26:29] <tzanger> https://www.mixdown.ca/redmine/projects/mixdown/wiki/AVR_Dragon
[08:27:02] <specing> Once you can buy a cortex-m4f with an OpenOCD debugger onboard, you'll flip out when someone wants to charge you $50 just for the programmer ;)
[08:27:04] <tzanger> the dragon seems to do emulation too which is not something I'm interested in
[08:27:14] <specing> *for $5
[08:27:51] <tzanger> specing: you still need jtag, and jtag cable is around that too isn't it? or are you saying the m4f has an openocd USB jtag port?
[08:28:06] <specing> USB
[08:28:29] <specing> theres an identical Cortex-M4F onboard running the debug software
[08:28:32] <RikusW> tzanger: why not use on chip debug when you have it ?
[08:28:54] <tzanger> RikusW: which part?
[08:29:35] <RikusW> most AVRs got it
[08:29:49] <RikusW> t2313, atmega32, atmega328, atxmega32u4 (tqfp) all got it
[08:29:58] <RikusW> 2313 and 328 is dW
[08:30:03] <RikusW> 32 and 32u4 jtag
[08:30:06] <tzanger> oh that
[08:30:45] <tzanger> I don't often need to use the debugger, but whatever avarice supports (or openocd) that's what I usually end up with
[08:31:12] <tzanger> I used avarice with jtag for 90can128
[08:31:54] <tzanger> my debugging is usually uart and LEDs :-)
[08:40:43] <blathijs> tzanger: I worked around it by only comparing the relevent part of a pointer, which prevents gcc from deducing the literal value of my pointer, resulting to the (shorter) indirect load :-)
[08:41:31] <blathijs> As an extra sideeffect, it only needs to compare 8 bits instead of 16 in other cases, which saves another instruction :-)
[08:42:08] <tzanger> heh. I'm always wary of doing things like that. did you use a comment block above it to remind you why you did it that way?
[08:42:26] <blathijs> As for compiler settings, I don't think these will help much, and I'm developing for the Arduino core library, so it should be ok with the default -Os
[08:43:03] <blathijs> tzanger: This entire forest of macro's I'm writing is going to need two pages of comments with rationale ;-)
[08:43:47] <tzanger> :-)
[08:44:07] <langoliers> tzanger<= lcd, printf, button debug? :)
[08:44:47] <tzanger> yep. I'm old school. blink codes FTW
[08:45:02] <langoliers> i do that too all the time, never used a debugger
[08:45:09] <tzanger> that's why it's utterly critical to get a timer up and running early. :-)
[08:45:33] <tzanger> oh I break out a debugger and sometimes had to go full ICE but that's rare
[08:48:10] <langoliers> who likes to fade rgb leds ?
[08:48:28] <langoliers> i don't really like pwm without filtering
[09:04:55] <rue_house> the difference between a raw pwm signal and a buck converter isn't that much
[09:06:46] <langoliers> i was just thinking about adding caps
[09:07:10] <langoliers> 35mA leds wouldn't benefit much anyway from buck regulation
[09:08:16] <langoliers> so leds will not flicker
[09:08:23] <rue_house> :) think about it, less than 10mA going into the converter
[09:08:34] <rue_house> its like, you could drive it right off the avr pin...
[09:08:37] <langoliers> :)
[09:08:59] <langoliers> avr-pin buck regulator ^^
[09:09:02] <rue_house> well up to about 30% anyhow
[09:09:41] <rue_house> iirc the pin protection diode is shotkey
[09:09:56] <langoliers> a thoughht it will be synchronous ;)
[09:10:10] <rue_house> oh you could
[09:10:46] <langoliers> but i would need to guess when will current stop flowing
[09:10:46] <rue_house> no wait, you would need the other diode to be active for full synchronous
[09:10:51] <rue_house> you could use two pins tho
[09:11:42] <langoliers> you are talking about 2 phase now
[09:11:43] <rue_house> heh, when the pin is being driven low, and it reads high, you hit the current limit
[09:12:05] <rue_house> no, for the rectifier, you could take another.... no that wouldn't work
[09:12:09] <langoliers> but not that much current in this, btw, is it cool to parallel pins?
[09:12:28] <rue_house> dosn't help, there is a port limit
[09:12:53] <langoliers> port limit?
[09:13:04] <langoliers> i know of whole device and pin curernt limit
[09:13:10] <rue_house> I think each 8 bit port is limited to about 35mA
[09:13:18] <rue_house> and then there is the device limit too yea
[09:13:23] <langoliers> no that is absolute max rating of a single pin
[09:13:31] <rue_house> there is that too
[09:13:41] <langoliers> and whole part 200-350mA limit
[09:14:25] <rue_house> oh, there is no diode on the far side, my mental topology image was all screwed up
[09:14:31] <langoliers> the gold wires are probably thin, also dissipation
[09:14:38] <rue_house> that would be synchronous...
[09:15:18] <rue_house> feed the output into an adc to "regulate" }:)
[09:15:30] <rue_house> I suppose you could use a comparitor
[09:15:32] <langoliers> haha yea, if you have fast adc
[09:16:05] <rue_house> give it a reset time before the next pulse
[09:16:19] <rue_house> huh
[09:16:37] <rue_house> that might be fun to play with at some point
[09:16:38] <langoliers> nah but this is not my work, it is only extra, ,after i'm done
[09:17:01] <rue_house> millipower dc-dc
[09:17:11] <langoliers> i just setup the hardware for an extra rgb led :)
[09:17:35] <langoliers> 3 resistors and 3x100nf caps would probably do
[09:17:40] <rue_house> 100mw
[09:17:43] <langoliers> even 10nf
[09:18:23] <langoliers> or, 3-6 transistors, plus few resistors, and 3 caps
[09:18:26] <rue_house> whats a blue led, 2V?
[09:18:34] <langoliers> no that is 3.3V-3.8V
[09:18:38] <rue_house> microcontroller, inductor, cap....
[09:18:54] <langoliers> red is 2-2.5V
[09:19:01] <rue_house> !
[09:19:13] <rue_house> I'd think red/green are ~1.4V
[09:19:32] <langoliers> green is 2-2.5V or 3.3V too
[09:19:43] <langoliers> oh, 1.2V is IR
[09:19:53] <rue_house> I wonder if they are using phosphor for all 3 colours
[09:19:58] <langoliers> and red is 1.5-1.7V at low currents.
[09:20:10] <langoliers> you give it more and rises a little
[09:20:26] <langoliers> no, they use different semiconductor
[09:20:29] <rue_house> I got a 100W white off ebay
[09:20:35] <rue_house> WOW ITS BRIGHT
[09:20:41] <langoliers> this is why the voltages differ
[09:20:51] <rue_house> even at the mere 2.8A that the "3A" supply puts out
[09:20:59] <langoliers> white uses only a blue + phosphors
[09:21:24] <rue_house> I thoguht blue was phosphor
[09:21:30] <langoliers> no that is led
[09:21:43] <rue_house> hmm
[09:22:01] <rue_house> uv phosphor isn't it?
[09:22:08] <langoliers> you can notice the peaking of light intensity in the blue region in all white leds
[09:22:39] <langoliers> there is some reason why leds can't do 30 bit as lcd backlight, only 24 bit :)
[09:22:53] <langoliers> for 30 bit color, they use CCFL
[09:23:08] <rue_house> the led linearity prolly goes for a dump
[09:23:31] <langoliers> CCFL works with UV excitation...
[09:23:38] <rue_house> yea
[09:24:27] <rue_house> white leds they mix the phosphor into the plastic I beleive
[09:24:57] <langoliers> how about pour the stuff onto the die?
[09:25:21] <rue_house> the phosphor?
[09:31:40] <rue_house> ok, this morning its phonesystem reprogramming...
[09:32:24] <rue_house> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solenoid-Air-Valve-5port-2position-BSP-4V110-06-DC-12V-/370540830866
[09:32:27] <rue_house> thats pretty cheap
[09:49:47] <RikusW> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/
[10:04:41] <theBear> grr ! recently datasheetarchive has been broken in ffox... when you click on a datasheet it shows the loading preview animation, then just reloads/resets the page :(
[10:05:08] <OndraSter_> :(
[10:06:44] <twnqx> luckily there are better sources
[10:07:06] * twnqx just harvested 41 from digikey
[10:08:58] <OndraSter_> :P
[10:10:55] <langoliers> i have a nice set of datasheets in datasheet dir
[10:11:30] <langoliers> a few dvds
[10:11:50] <OndraSter_> eh
[10:12:04] <OndraSter_> I keep datasheets for xmega devices and then datasheets per project
[10:12:33] <langoliers> oh, i keep every component's datasheet i use
[10:12:39] <langoliers> even resistors
[10:17:44] * RikusW got the atmel dvd :)
[10:17:51] <RikusW> and 2005 CD
[10:19:22] <OndraSter_> :)
[10:19:26] <OndraSter_> I do not have optical drive
[10:20:01] <langoliers> i have 100 optical drives laying around
[10:20:21] <OndraSter_> haha
[10:20:24] <OndraSter_> I gave them away
[10:20:28] <OndraSter_> plus they were usually IDE
[10:20:29] <langoliers> ;>
[10:20:37] <langoliers> i use ide connectors too
[10:20:38] <OndraSter_> I had laptop optical drive + USB adapter for it
[10:20:49] <OndraSter_> but I put it into older laptop with broken drive
[10:21:35] <langoliers> you can make a cd-rom main drive motor fly a small rc plane
[10:21:37] * twnqx currently harvests SPI Flash data sheets to extract device ids
[10:21:57] <langoliers> or 4x quad copter
[10:25:34] * RikusW got a new sata dvd writer for 17E
[10:25:58] <langoliers> that has a class IV red laser in it
[10:26:22] <langoliers> you can blind google satellites with it
[10:26:27] <RikusW> agot plenty of scrapped drives to take one from
[10:31:20] <mi6x3m> hello, I need some help figuring out the tiny programming interface
[10:31:28] <mi6x3m> the collision detection part
[10:31:33] <mi6x3m> can someone help me?
[10:31:42] <mi6x3m> this is the relevant paper
[10:31:43] <mi6x3m> http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-8127-AVR-8-bit-Microcontroller-ATtiny4-ATtiny5-ATtiny9-ATtiny10_Datasheet.pdf
[10:31:48] <mi6x3m> part 14.3.9
[10:35:21] <RikusW> mi6x3m: the LUFA AVRISP mkii can do that for free
[10:35:43] <mi6x3m> yeah, I am interested in the process myself, I know the programmers can handle it
[10:35:51] <RikusW> its open source
[10:36:58] * RikusW relabels t10 at ATxtiny10 :-D
[10:38:06] <mi6x3m> yeah well I don't get it although it's simple
[10:38:24] <mi6x3m> the thing states the output driver has 3 states
[10:38:30] <mi6x3m> and a trick is performed to check for a collision
[10:45:23] <RikusW> generally you only get a reply for certain commands sent
[10:45:35] <RikusW> so you know when to change direction
[10:46:00] <ph30n1x> hello avr guys
[10:49:40] <RikusW> mi6x3m: inthe datasheet -> 14.3.9 Collision Detection Exception
[10:49:53] <mi6x3m> RikusW: yes, this is the relevant part
[10:50:09] <mi6x3m> now I can't exactly figure out the mechanism how collisions are detected
[10:50:29] <mi6x3m> it sounds like I must send 2 HIGH bits and then check if the line is kept low
[10:50:37] <mi6x3m> but I am unsure
[10:51:07] <RikusW> it is the AVR doing the checking
[10:51:15] <RikusW> but I guess you can too
[10:51:35] <mi6x3m> well I should be aware what's going on in the avr
[10:51:39] <mi6x3m> i need to programm it
[10:51:42] <RikusW> check if you receive what you transmit
[10:52:22] <mi6x3m> where did you read this?
[10:52:23] <RikusW> since TX -> open collector -> RX -> TPI
[10:52:48] <RikusW> everything you transmit will be received too
[10:53:00] <RikusW> and use synchronous usrt
[10:53:40] <mi6x3m> yeah but look here
[10:53:47] <mi6x3m> "The collision detection is enabled in transmit mode, when the output driver has been disabled. The data line should now be kept high by the internal pull-up and it is monitored to see, if it is driven low by the external programmer. If the output is read low, a collision has been detected."
[10:54:12] <RikusW> TX -> Emitter Vcc -> 10k -> Base Vtg -> 10k -> Collector -> TPI data
[10:54:16] <mi6x3m> sounds to me like I only need to check if the TPIDATA line is 0 after sending 1 two times
[10:54:52] <RikusW> simply check the data received by the usrt
[10:54:59] <RikusW> unless you're bitbanging
[10:55:15] <mi6x3m> well I have a very minimalistic programmer
[10:55:22] <mi6x3m> "checking" for stuff is not trivial
[10:55:44] <RikusW> bitbang ?
[10:55:49] <RikusW> parallel port ?
[10:56:39] <mi6x3m> RikusW: bitbang
[10:57:23] <RikusW> can you change di direction on the data line ?
[10:57:28] <RikusW> in/out ?
[10:57:58] <mi6x3m> well the chip does it for you
[11:00:33] <blathijs> Hmm, I have another interesting avr-gcc problem, where gcc generates too much load instructions for my taste (something which should be prevented by strict aliasing, but apparently isn't). Anyone got a clue about this one?
http://pastebin.com/7aJc7KxC
[11:14:41] <specing> RikusW: nobody uses DVDs anymore
[11:22:07] <RikusW> blathijs: you could try -Os
[11:22:15] <RikusW> or use asm all the way
[11:22:27] <RikusW> specing: got blueray instead ?
[11:23:04] <specing> RikusW: regular harddisks are too cheap to bother with that
[11:23:12] <RikusW> blathijs: in general avr-gcc is a bit messedup
[11:23:15] <specing> a blueray writer costs as much as a 3TB HDD
[11:23:21] <RikusW> yep
[11:23:25] <RikusW> thats nuts
[11:23:58] <RikusW> specing: and how do you install an OS without DVD drive ?
[11:24:08] <specing> RikusW: USB thumb drive
[11:24:15] <RikusW> hmm
[11:24:37] <specing> Ever heard of those in SA? :P
[11:24:42] <RikusW> ofc
[11:24:53] * RikusW got a 256MB gigabyte one ;)
[11:25:07] <RikusW> and 4GB + 16GB Jetflash
[11:25:12] <RikusW> and 8GB noname
[11:25:18] <specing> so use the 4GB one for install?
[11:25:26] <RikusW> the 256MB and 4GB cost the same. only much later
[11:25:44] <RikusW> err actually the 4GB was cheaper
[11:26:45] <specing> I get all my USBs for free
[11:26:48] <specing> lol
[11:27:10] <specing> have 3*2GB, 2*4GB, 1*8GB and 1*32GB
[11:27:57] <specing> make that 4*2GB and 3*4GB
[11:28:40] <specing> also
[11:28:50] <specing> Hahahahahah for buying an optical unit
[11:30:06] <blathijs> RikusW: -Os gives the same result
[11:30:24] <RikusW> use asm then...
[11:30:50] <blathijs> Meh :-)
[11:33:13] <specing> sounds like GCC being retarded
[11:33:32] <specing> Anyone looked at GCC's Cortex-M4F output?
[11:33:35] <blathijs> specing: The weird thing is that it does as expected between reads
[11:33:37] <specing> Because I have
[11:33:45] <specing> and I couln't make heads or tails out of it
[11:33:59] <specing> probably meaning their ARM port rocks
[11:49:25] <OndraSter_> <RikusW> specing: and how do you install an OS without DVD drive ?
[11:49:26] <OndraSter_> PXE
[11:49:27] <OndraSter_> :)
[11:51:13] <inkjetunito> uhh es bee
[11:54:52] <OndraSter_> wat
[11:54:55] <OndraSter_> oh
[11:54:56] <OndraSter_> ..
[11:54:57] <OndraSter_> USB
[11:55:02] <OndraSter_> yes, USB HDD is another option
[11:55:04] <OndraSter_> I prefer PXE though
[11:57:51] <RikusW> OndraSter_: even win7/8 ?
[11:58:11] <OndraSter_> only vista+ :)
[11:58:14] <OndraSter_> XP is a bitch to install over PXE
[11:58:19] <OndraSter_> Vista+ is built for PXE/whatever
[11:58:23] <OndraSter_> and USB
[11:58:35] <OndraSter_> I am deploying XP as an image
[11:58:38] <OndraSter_> just as w7
[11:58:41] <OndraSter_> over WDS
[11:59:13] <OndraSter_> now if I am testing different builds of leaked W8.1 (W Blue), I either put them just as iso for vmware or, if I want to test it on a real device, put it onto the WDS by 2 clicks ;)
[12:01:05] <RikusW> WDS ?
[12:01:12] <OndraSter_> Windows Deployment Service
[12:01:19] <OndraSter_> runs on my server
[12:01:22] <OndraSter_> one of the WinServer roles
[12:01:30] <OndraSter_> you can boot over PXE one of the boot images you insert
[12:01:38] <OndraSter_> and then you can install any edition you have imported to the WDS
[12:01:47] <OndraSter_> you can also import drivers and inject them to the boot images by two clicks :P
[12:02:12] <OndraSter_> like when I was installing some laptop that had weird-ass ethernet, so I just downloaded the driver on the server, put into driver store, clicked inject and booted
[12:02:21] <OndraSter_> and installed in a few minutes ;)
[12:02:53] <OndraSter_> I need to make a script that changes update server to the local WSUS one, installs all the updates and then changes it back
[12:03:00] <OndraSter_> because now it works only for domain computers via GPO
[12:03:53] <OndraSter_> wow
[12:03:54] <OndraSter_> http://clip2net.com/s/4XMOCQ
[12:04:20] <OndraSter_> it stayed over 100MB/s the whole time
[12:07:55] <RikusW> WDS sounds nice to have
[12:08:18] <OndraSter_> indeed
[12:08:50] <OndraSter_> if somebody comes - I just boot special image in which I inserted totalcommander and some other tools, copy the data off the laptop/computer, reboot to installation image and install the OS ;)
[12:14:21] <specing> OndraSter_: USB thumb drives...
[12:26:02] <OndraSter_> specing, usb thumb drives are a funny thing
[12:26:09] <OndraSter_> my laptop refuses to boot off anything USB out of nothing
[12:26:28] <specing> must be a shitty laptop
[12:29:17] <specing> the last machine not wanting to boot off an USB was a pentium4
[12:29:51] <mega2181> This seems to be a dumb question, but do you have a part number for rail-to-rail op-amp (5V single supply) that is easy to find? Yes, I've looked on google.
[12:36:47] <OndraSter_> mega2181, aren't TL08* or TL07*?
[12:36:52] <OndraSter_> specing, it worked years ago
[12:36:55] <OndraSter_> then I did not use it
[12:36:58] <OndraSter_> and now it does not work
[12:36:59] <OndraSter_> no idea why
[12:49:05] <Steffanx> because you are the abuser of the laptop OndraSter_ ..
[12:52:05] <OndraSter_> lol
[12:52:08] <OndraSter_> why?
[13:04:49] <Steffanx> lol
[13:04:50] <Steffanx> why not?
[13:06:21] <OndraSter_> I asked first
[13:07:17] <Steffanx> ok
[13:35:43] <langoliers> mega2181<= try ti.com instead
[13:36:00] <langoliers> lmc6482 ?
[13:37:44] <skroon> hi
[13:38:13] <skroon> is it possible to configure my arduino as a ISP slave as well?
[13:39:59] <RikusW> AVR can be slave
[13:40:12] <RikusW> don't know if the Arduino api supports it
[13:40:28] <RikusW> you could always use the IO registers directly
[13:41:08] <Tom_itx> isp slave/
[13:41:09] <Tom_itx> ?
[13:41:12] <Tom_itx> you mean spi?
[13:41:17] <skroon> sorry... SPI :)
[13:41:36] <skroon> when I was typing it, I was already in doubt, because it didn't sound correct hehe
[13:45:33] <langoliers> OndraSter_<= no...
[13:46:19] <langoliers> rrri - no, rro? definitely no
[13:46:32] <langoliers> and likes 12-36V power
[13:46:52] <skroon> RikusW: so it's basically creating own version of SPI slave library then?
[13:47:15] <RikusW> yes
[13:47:26] <RikusW> SPI registers aren't that compicated either
[13:47:39] <RikusW> maybe you can even use the Arduino libs to some extent
[13:49:02] <skroon> do you work also in the Arduino IDE? Or you can use your own editor? (vim in my case)
[13:51:58] <megal0maniac> zlog
[13:52:14] * megal0maniac misses tobbor...
[13:55:00] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_:Update that BIOS! It's the thing to be doing
[14:00:46] <megal0maniac> 'Night
[14:33:52] <dpy> hi guys
[14:36:17] <dpy> Is there an obvious reason that these kind of parts or not available in an complementary configuration:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/FD/FDC6330L.html
[14:36:33] <dpy> "This load switch integrates a small N-Channel power MOSFET (Q1) which drives a large P-Channel power MOSFET (Q2)"
[14:37:21] <dpy> I need a load switch with a large N-channel power MOSFET
[14:41:47] <tzanger> high side and low side switches are generally marketed separately
[14:43:28] <dpy> with bipolar transistors I'm used to the fact that there are complementary devices
[14:43:38] <dpy> the thing is
[14:43:57] <dpy> these parts is really what I'd need for my common cathode led strip
[14:44:30] <dpy> but common cathode is very hard to come by these days, so my rgb led strip design will have to target common anode
[14:44:39] <dpy> and for common anode, I can't use this one
[14:44:50] <dpy> but they're really nice and tiny
[14:47:39] <hetii> Hi :)
[14:48:32] <hetii> I change wires in my pl2303 usb to sersial converter, with signals is worth to expose(rxd,txd ... ?)
[14:49:06] <mega2181> langoliers : thanls
[14:50:18] <hetii> DTR was originally connected with DSR
[14:50:27] <dpy> it's almost as if P-Channel is much more popular in MOSFET
[14:52:04] <dpy> (when it comes to small)
[14:55:28] <dpy> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/FD/FDC6305N.html
[14:55:36] <dpy> now we're getting somewhere
[15:02:19] <dpy> does V_gs(th) 3V mean, you can't drive it from 5V?, or that you need at least 3V, and -hence- 5V will be enough?
[15:08:37] <RikusW> look at the Vgs curve
[15:08:52] <RikusW> 3V generally have higher RDSon
[15:17:59] <jadew> http://i.imgur.com/giIbEBW.jpg
[15:18:40] <jadew> can't stop laughing
[15:19:27] <RikusW> ugh
[15:19:37] <RikusW> wrong mask or wrong resist...
[15:19:56] <RikusW> actually thats the groundplane :-P
[15:19:58] <jadew> don't know how that happened or who made it, but it's hilareous
[15:20:15] <jadew> it's possible it's not the groundplane tho
[15:20:27] <jadew> because the traces would then have to be really small
[15:20:30] <jadew> but it could be
[15:21:17] <RikusW> I'm thinking he thought it was negative resist or something
[15:21:23] <jadew> very funny anyway, I imagine the surprise on the guy who made it
[15:21:53] <RikusW> he should have seen the developer going the wrong way...
[15:22:03] <jadew> well, it could be tonner transfer
[15:22:05] <RikusW> maybe he thought it was funny too
[15:22:22] <jadew> I'd be pissed off, I hate making boards
[15:23:09] <RikusW> I'd be more careful than that..
[15:24:23] <tzanger> jadew: haha
[15:41:21] <langoliers> dpy<= irf7309
[15:41:50] <langoliers> and n-channel is used everywhere, because they are better, like the npn transistors.
[15:51:23] <dpy> langoliers: Tnx, but I'm looking for SSOT6 or smaller (SSOT23)
[16:02:14] <OndraSter_> langoliers, why are N better than P?
[16:02:15] <OndraSter_> :P
[16:02:32] <vsync_> ohhh yes, the joys of building rc planes
[16:02:38] <vsync_> fingertips covered in ca
[16:02:49] <vsync_> and the smell of ca and kicker floats about
[16:02:53] <vsync_> ohhhh good times
[16:04:16] <RikusW> acetone will dissolve CA nicely
[16:05:03] <vsync_> not it won't
[16:05:06] <vsync_> no*
[16:05:20] <vsync_> tried it countless of times... no cigar
[16:05:40] <RikusW> worked for me
[16:06:03] <vsync_> it's really hard to dissolve ca... there are some commercial ca solvents but dunno, haven't tried
[16:06:40] <vsync_> i dunno if it's because this stuff isn't the avg. run of the mill 'super glue'
[16:06:55] <vsync_> but acetone doesn't work for this stuff
[16:07:07] <RikusW> maybe its not all equal...
[16:07:19] <vsync_> best way is just to ... use your hands :p
[16:07:55] <vsync_> in a few days it'll be gone :)
[16:08:18] <vsync_> though i'm not finished with my build :\ but i gotta get it flying before the weekend... missed flying so much!
[19:01:06] <Horologium> vsync_, bah...go back before stuper glue was available for model airplanes...used to use a nifty glue that could get you shitfaced.
[19:01:46] <Horologium> also, using "dope" to attach, tighten, and harden rice paper for the skins.
[19:03:10] <metalliqaz> anyone here consider themselves an expert with usb?
[19:04:22] <Horologium> yes.
[19:04:23] <Horologium> but not me.
[19:04:25] <Horologium> what's up?
[19:08:13] <metalliqaz> i got an application using LUFA that isn't working as expected
[19:08:20] <metalliqaz> not sure where to go to find USB experts
[19:09:00] <metalliqaz> the enumeration process seems weird, and the thing causes windows to freak out
[19:09:24] <metalliqaz> but it works just fine... unless I shutdown or hibernate windows
[19:09:29] <metalliqaz> then it goes friggin crazy
[19:11:06] <Horologium> well, the writer of LUFA hangs out here..
[19:11:10] <Horologium> though I don't see him right now.
[19:11:17] <Horologium> Tom_itx is also a big user of it.
[19:11:34] <Horologium> but that sounds like windows being windows..
[19:11:44] <metalliqaz> yes i'll probably end up posting to avrfreaks, i got Dean to respond once before
[19:11:45] <metalliqaz> Menu: 'p'rint/'c'lear events, 'e'xamine, 'r'eset, 'q'uit.
[19:11:49] <Horologium> for which I couldn't be of any use....no install of windows anywhere in this house anymore.
[19:11:57] <metalliqaz> oops
[19:12:05] <metalliqaz> ignore that
[19:12:15] <Horologium> no, I don't wanna ignore it!
[19:12:26] <metalliqaz> lol, left my keyboard in debug mode
[19:12:50] <metalliqaz> its not windows, its definitely my code
[19:13:31] <Horologium> yeah...something similar was said when bill gates demoed plug and play usb devices on international live tv and had a BSOD.
[19:13:39] <Horologium> didn't keep him from firing somebody though.
[19:14:03] <metalliqaz> k
[19:14:05] <Horologium> but, sorry, I've not done much with lufa myself...mostly just use it in a bootloader and usb avr programmer.
