#avr | Logs for 2013-04-13

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[02:35:40] <megal0maniac_afk> homeflix: "ist German" Nice typo :P
[02:35:54] <homeflix> yeah ;)
[06:11:01] <pumpkin360> Hi, can I exchange data with an butterfly using uart on 3V ?
[06:12:53] <Horologium> yes.
[06:12:59] <pumpkin360> and what in the PortF on the butterfly board ?
[06:13:11] <Horologium> that question makes no sense..
[06:13:40] <pumpkin360> first one or the second ?
[06:13:59] <Horologium> second
[06:15:09] <Horologium> portB and portD are available on the board.
[06:15:16] <Horologium> I don't see that portF is available anywhere.
[06:15:20] <pumpkin360> I'm reading the buttload manual and there is port F mentioned..
[06:15:31] <pumpkin360> I couldn't find it either
[06:16:41] <Horologium> page 24 of the manual shows how to hook the butterfly to a PC via serial port.
[06:16:59] <Horologium> there is portF on the chip, but it is not brought out to pins on the board.
[06:17:08] <Horologium> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc4271.pdf
[06:17:12] <Horologium> butterfly manual
[06:21:44] <pumpkin360> I want to connect something else... http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/files/BL_Manual.pdf
[06:22:46] <Horologium> ok.
[06:22:50] <pumpkin360> I guess
[06:22:55] <pumpkin360> it's the JTAG
[06:23:08] <Horologium> just found that.
[06:23:12] <Horologium> 4,5,6,7 are jtag
[06:23:17] <Horologium> the other pins are for sensors.
[06:23:21] <Horologium> that are built onto the chip.
[06:23:25] <Horologium> err..onto the board.
[06:23:38] <Horologium> light, temp, voltage..
[06:23:54] <pumpkin360> what avr devices can I program on 3V ?
[06:24:27] <Horologium> most of them.
[06:24:41] <Horologium> if it will run at 3V it will program at 3V
[06:25:04] <pumpkin360> good. Very good.
[06:25:13] <pumpkin360> thank you very much for the help
[06:25:29] <Horologium> welcome
[06:25:36] <Horologium> it's all in the datasheets.
[06:26:22] <pumpkin360> not really, or at least not easy to find. In what datasheet could I find if I can connect to the butterfly via 3V uart ?
[06:31:09] <Horologium> to connect straight to the uart from another device running at 3V you will need to bypass the onboard level converter...or put a level converter on your other device.
[06:31:34] <Horologium> that is not specifically in that doc I posted but it does say there is a level converter on the board.
[06:31:45] <Horologium> from which one can imply what is needed.
[06:32:32] <Horologium> the USI is also brought out
[06:32:40] <Horologium> which can play UART at 3.3V directly.
[06:32:59] <Horologium> all that information is in the datasheet for the atmega169 which is the chip on the butterfly.
[06:34:54] <Horologium> hmm..seems that USI can't play UART...just SPI or TWI(i2c)
[06:35:03] <Horologium> shows what I get for not reading the datasheet.
[06:35:28] <Horologium> so to use the USART at 3.3V you will have to bypass the level converter.
[06:38:46] <pumpkin360> ..was more interested if would the voltage levels remain enough going through the converter. Guess the TX and RX Pins aren't easily avaliable, are they ?
[07:38:12] <qubyte> hi
[07:42:09] <qubyte> hi, can someone tell me what line 15-17 does? http://pastebin.com/hrgf78W8 Especially I don't get number 16. When is line 16 and 17 executed?
[07:43:08] <specing> 15. relative unconfitional jump to main
[07:43:29] <specing> 16. set current assembler output address to the OVF0addr symbol
[07:43:53] <specing> 17. relative unconditional jump to timer0_overflow
[07:47:55] <qubyte> specing is there any dependency between 14/15 adn 16/17? I also don't see when .org OVF0addr is executed. Where can I find the documentation?
[07:50:05] <specing> .org is not an instruction
[07:50:24] <specing> you can find assembly docs in the ATMEL instruction set reference
[07:50:40] <specing> and the .org keywords in you assembler's manual
[07:53:16] <qubyte> specing ok thanks, I'm new to this, as you probably noticed. :)
[08:44:05] <tzanger> interesting. buspirate power supply isn't so great
[08:44:26] <tzanger> even with a half second delay between power-on and program, the attiny13 returns bad data half the time
[08:47:17] <kdehl> Are the two recommended 4.7k resistors absolutely necessary for the I²C bus to work?
[08:55:58] <Casper> yes
[08:56:21] <Casper> I2C is an open collector bus, meaning that all the devices can do is ground the wire, it can NOT provide VCC
[09:00:47] <kdehl> Alright.
[09:01:24] <kdehl> So, both SCL and SDA need to be connected to Vcc via a resistor?
[09:02:48] <tzanger> kdehl: each with their own resistor
[09:02:53] <kdehl> tzanger: Right.
[09:02:55] <kdehl> Okay.
[09:02:58] <tzanger> 4k7 for SCL to +V and 4k7 for SDA to +V
[09:03:06] <kdehl> Right.
[09:03:13] <tzanger> in reality anywhere from 1k to 10k will work, the higher the resistor the slower the bus will be
[09:03:20] <kdehl> Aha.
[09:03:34] <tzanger> but we're talking the difference between 1kHz and 400kHz... start slow anyway and get it working first :-)
[09:03:59] <kdehl> I just found a bunch 180 ohm resistors, but I guess that won't do, huh.
[09:04:16] <tzanger> yeah that's a little too low
[09:05:32] <kdehl> I found another bunch of different resistors, but I don't have a ohmmeter around to check the values...
[09:06:25] <kdehl> http://www.csgnetwork.com/resistcolcalc.html
[09:06:27] <kdehl> Gotta love that one!
[09:10:14] <RikusW> kdehl: read the color codes ?
[09:11:05] <tzanger> bah
[09:11:18] <tzanger> bad boys rape our young girls but violet goes willingly
[09:11:21] <tzanger> it's not hard :-)
[09:12:09] <tzanger> you can't be pissing around with websites and meters if you want to do this as more than the slightest of hobbies
[09:15:05] <RikusW> though the blue metal film ones can be harder to read
[09:15:21] <RikusW> not always sure which direction it should go
[09:29:03] <tzanger> oh for fuck sakes
[09:29:39] <tzanger> I can't use RB5/RESET# as a GPIO without blowing RSTDSBL. I had stupidly assumed I could disable it in software like I can disable JTAG on the at90can128
[10:18:25] <kdehl> Ah. I've now spent an hour reading out, sorting and making small stickers for small boxes for the different resistors. Aren't I organized!
[10:18:54] <Tom_itx> smt?
[10:19:48] <kdehl> Surface mounted resistors?
[10:21:28] <kdehl> I found 10 pieces of 5k36 resistors, that should do well for I2C, right?
[10:21:46] <megal0maniac> yes
[10:21:51] <kdehl> Great.
[10:23:12] <kdehl> Finally, I can get started.
[10:23:39] <Tom_itx> just watch the polarity on them
[10:24:09] <RikusW> I made a resistor box out of cardboard
[10:24:21] <Tom_itx> i got those little bins from DX
[10:24:33] <RikusW> for the entire E24 set, with 1x1cm holes about 4-5cm high
[10:24:40] <kdehl> Nice.
[10:24:57] <RikusW> use breakfast serial boxes and cold glue
[10:25:18] <RikusW> fits about 10 of each value
[10:25:27] <Tom_itx> just don't sprinkle them on your cereal
[10:25:39] <RikusW> or let it fall....
[10:46:22] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser
[10:46:37] <abcminiuser> Heyo
[10:46:56] <Tom_itx> can you have a programmer using jungo and another using libusb on a windows box reside together?
[10:47:26] <abcminiuser> Yeah, it should bind per device uniquely if it has a serial number
[10:47:30] <abcminiuser> (in theory at least)
[10:47:37] <Tom_itx> someone want's to use studio 6 and avrdude both but with separate programmers
[10:48:26] <Tom_itx> how does avrdude differentiate between them? just with the usb driver?
[10:48:51] <abcminiuser> Yeah, it just asks LibUSB what devices it has
[10:48:59] <abcminiuser> So Jungo ones won't show up
[10:49:14] <Tom_itx> sounds a bit risky
[10:49:20] <abcminiuser> Back in a sec, upgrading IRC client
[10:51:25] <abcminiuser> Neat. that worked
[10:51:35] <abcminiuser> Also everyone needs the latest testing build of LUFA for AS6.1
[11:05:29] <xoriath> abcminiuser, where to download?
[11:05:42] <abcminiuser> I can make you a VSIX, one sec
[11:05:48] <abcminiuser> :D
[11:06:40] <xoriath> Tom_itx: you could try to use the libusb filter driver, which should make both jungo/studio and avrdude able to connect to the tool
[11:06:41] <Tom_itx> what's different about it?
[11:06:48] <abcminiuser> It has more stuff
[11:06:53] <abcminiuser> Ask no questions
[11:06:56] <Tom_itx> xoriath, i had bad experience with filter
[11:07:15] <xoriath> Tom_itx: yes, it ... yes
[11:07:26] <xoriath> Tom_itx: but when it works, it is actually quite nice :P
[11:07:59] <Tom_itx> is that 2% worth it?
[11:08:00] <abcminiuser> One thing it does have is module descriptions in the ASF module wizard now
[11:08:24] <abcminiuser> Now it also contains 20% more cowbell as well
[11:08:41] <Tom_itx> moooo
[11:09:03] <langoliers> homeflix<= it is top side that needs mirroring ;)
[11:09:21] <langoliers> basically you did a double mirror
[11:12:23] <abcminiuser> http://fourwalledcubicle.com/files/temp/LUFA-TESTING-13.04.13-17.59.34.vsix
[11:12:57] <langoliers> RikusW<= match boxes works for smd ^^
[11:14:57] <RikusW> I used that for small transistors too
[11:15:07] <RikusW> to92 iirc
[11:23:50] <langoliers> kdehl<= any resistor would work for i2c i think given the other device is able to pull it down
[11:29:13] <kdehl> langoliers: Okay.
[12:29:44] <kdehl> Nope, this crap ain't workin'.
[12:30:07] <kdehl> I get the exact same error message whether I have the chip connected or not.
[12:30:17] <kdehl> That's a bad sign.
[12:31:59] <langoliers> what are you doing?
[12:32:16] <kdehl> I get 0x20 and 0x10. "A repeated START condition has been transmitted" and "SLA-W has been transmitted NOT ACK has been received."
[12:32:36] <kdehl> I'm trying to use a 24LC64 memory chip using I2C.
[12:35:33] <kdehl> The controller is running at 8 MHz, so I put 0x02 into TWBR, and 0x00 into TWSR in order to get the I2C bus to run at 400 kHz, isn't that about right?
[12:41:48] <qubyte> hi
[12:41:52] <qubyte> http://pastebin.com/QaEipv8H can someone explain me line 30-32? Why is he using a whole port?
[12:45:38] <kdehl> Does he?
[12:45:58] <kdehl> Isn't that just a reference to the port that is being used, even though not all pins might be used.
[12:46:01] <kdehl> ?
[12:48:51] <kdehl> Holy my. Now it does indeed work.
[13:01:42] <qubyte> kdehl: what exactly does RS485R_PORT &=~(1<<RS485R_RE); ?
[13:03:19] <kdehl> qubyte: Clears the RS485R_RE bit of the RS485R_PORT byte (which probably is a port).
[13:04:04] <kdehl> #define RS485R_RE PC0
[13:05:25] <kdehl> That's strange. PC0 is port C, but according to the other #defines you use port D for RS485 stuff.
[13:05:32] <qubyte> kdehl: I don't understand how he did the UART.
[13:06:52] <kdehl> Well, PC0 is just defined as 0, I think, so actually that RS485R_PORT &=~(1<<RS485R_RE); should just clear bit 0 of port D
[13:07:01] <kdehl> Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
[13:07:39] <kdehl> I'm sorry, I'm cooking right now.
[13:07:53] <kdehl> And I don't know what RS485 is. I only know RS-232.
[13:10:15] <qubyte> kdehl ok thanks
[13:48:39] <RikusW> mini cnc made with old cd drive parts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2LBraOUtUo
[13:50:59] <Malinuss> RikusW, yours?
[13:51:22] <RikusW> no
[13:51:28] <RikusW> still cool :)
[13:51:47] <RikusW> I'd like to have this more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXrRErRHlc
[13:58:52] <jc5134> hello, got a really weird problem. I'm trying to use kavr on atmega32. Its uploaded in the correct section and gives me confirmation that everything is ok when flashing. The thing is it never actually writes anything (all FFs except for the bootloader section). Anyone ever had this ?
[14:00:17] <jc5134> I tried setting the bootloader start to 0x3800 and 0x3c00 (each time reuploading and confirming with avrdude that it's there as it should)
[14:02:49] <RikusW> got any lockbits set ?
[14:03:00] <RikusW> hmm chip erase should have taken care of that...
[14:03:14] <jc5134> RikusW, nope, all 0xFF
[14:03:18] <RikusW> using a custom bootloader ?
[14:03:20] <jc5134> (lock bits)
[14:03:23] <RikusW> it might be buggy
[14:03:46] <jc5134> RikusW, yes, at first I tried to write my own.. exactly the same behavior :(
[14:03:57] <RikusW> its notoriously difficult to get flashing code working right....
[14:04:06] <jc5134> I now also tried programming BOOTRST, seems to have no effect
[14:04:18] <RikusW> you'll need that
[14:04:20] <jc5134> well except for moving the vectors of course
[14:04:25] <RikusW> and is the bootloader size set right ?
[14:04:29] <jc5134> RikusW, well I'd prefer not to use it
[14:05:07] <jc5134> RikusW, what do you mean 'size' ? It fits in the boot section. I only set where the bootloader section 'starts'
[14:05:17] <RikusW> BOOTRST don't move the vectors, only reset
[14:05:23] <RikusW> afaik anyways
[14:05:27] <jc5134> I set it to 0x3C00 for now
[14:05:35] <RikusW> there is another register for moving vectors
[14:05:50] <jc5134> true, I meant the reset vector, sorry
[14:06:14] <RikusW> my bootloader use a value in eeprom to know what to do
[14:06:25] <RikusW> and a button to override the eeprom
[14:07:11] <RikusW> which avr is that for ?
[14:07:25] <jc5134> RikusW, mega32
[14:07:29] <jc5134> I see: 3bf0 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff |................|
[14:07:30] <jc5134> 3c00 11 24 c5 e2 d2 e0 1f be 8f e5 98 e0 9e bf 8d bf |.$..............|
[14:07:34] <jc5134> (in avrdude)
[14:07:41] <jc5134> so bootloader is exactly where it should
[14:07:41] <RikusW> looks right
[14:07:51] <jc5134> everything before that is just FFs
[14:08:01] <jc5134> or as I like to say, FFucked
[14:08:07] <RikusW> I've posted my m8 bootloader at ruemohr.org
[14:08:19] <Tom_itx> that's still up?
[14:08:24] <RikusW> but it can be modified for m32, its stk500 and all asm
[14:08:31] <RikusW> Tom_itx: last time I checked it was
[14:08:50] <jc5134> RikusW, unfortunately I have to use something that works without additional software, just plain terminal emulator :(
[14:08:54] <RikusW> jc5134: http://www.ruemohr.org/code/BLM8.zip
[14:09:06] <jc5134> kavr uses xon/xoff to induce 'flashing delays' for the sending side without hw flow control
[14:09:10] <Tom_itx> what's it take to modify it to m32?
[14:09:16] <RikusW> works with AS and avrdude (stk500pp)
[14:09:34] <RikusW> Tom_itx: mainly uart registers
[14:09:51] <Tom_itx> what about 168?
[14:09:56] <jc5134> kavr is pretty neat, you just upload a hex file (as text) and it flashes. At the end it tells you whether it succeeded or not
[14:09:56] <RikusW> and maybe device signature, can't remember if I hardcoded that
[14:10:02] <RikusW> should work fine
[14:10:39] <Tom_itx> i don't see it there
[14:11:19] <RikusW> I pasted the link above
[14:11:35] <RikusW> avrdude needs to use stk500pp
[14:11:38] <RikusW> not stk500
[14:11:42] <jc5134> anyway: hfuse is 1A, lfuse is 3D, lock is FF :(
[14:11:57] <Tom_itx> you should put your name by the file
[14:12:02] <Tom_itx> in the description
[14:12:15] <RikusW> its in the asm
[14:12:38] <Tom_itx> yeah but just looking at the page we wouldn't know who it belonged to
[14:13:05] <RikusW> heh thats up to rue
[14:13:29] <Tom_itx> blm8 zip?
[14:13:43] <RikusW> yes
[14:13:45] <Tom_itx> it's on the page but not a very good description
[14:13:47] <RikusW> milling pcbs -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdVsT3x7oRw
[14:14:56] <jc5134> hmm, I'll just try another part
[14:15:02] <jc5134> maybe it's just 'broken', lol
[14:15:30] <Tom_itx> you seem to like asm
[14:16:07] <RikusW> yep
[14:16:24] <Tom_itx> i would too if i knew it better
[14:16:50] <Tom_itx> if i didn't have to look up all the instructions to see what does what
[14:19:12] <RikusW> _making_ a pcb itself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7KNOhe64kg :-P
[14:19:22] <RikusW> hackvana should start to worry :-P
[14:19:50] <Tom_itx> i need to talk to that boy
[14:21:17] * RikusW is on 4MBit ADSL so YT is no longer a problem :)
[14:30:49] <langoliers> hey guys, how you like this thingy? http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Printers/Direct_Photo/SELPHY_CP810/#p-specification1
[14:31:05] <langoliers> CMYO system dye-sublimation photo printer
[14:41:35] <RikusW> will that work on pcbs too ?
[14:45:00] <Horologium> the selphy is a nice little photo printer.
[14:45:07] <Horologium> uses thermal transfer wax ribbon.
[14:45:17] <Horologium> aka dye sub printer.
[14:45:33] <Horologium> friend of mine has a selphy cp800 and it does a real nice job.
[14:45:44] <Horologium> saves him money too over getting digital prints made
[14:45:55] <Horologium> as he lives 40 miles from the nearest place to get prints made.
[14:47:10] <Horologium> 35 bucks for 102 prints I think is what the celphy costs.
[14:47:10] <langoliers> :)
[14:47:19] <Horologium> selphy
[14:47:49] <Horologium> he had been using disposable cameras and taking them in to get prints made when they get full.
[14:47:51] <langoliers> RikusW<= this is CMYO photo printer, and O means overcoating
[14:48:06] <Horologium> now he can print what he wants and not print the ones he doesn't...which saves money too.
[14:48:09] <langoliers> it has a transparent protective overcoating
[14:48:22] <Horologium> that must be what's new over the previous one.
[14:48:33] <jadew> yey \o/ I started tracking my multimeters
[14:48:38] <langoliers> 100 years guarantte :)
[14:48:52] <langoliers> Horologium<= http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Printers/Direct_Photo/SELPHY_CP810/#p-specification3
[14:49:18] <Horologium> saw that.
[14:49:42] <Horologium> this guy rebuilds antique tractors for people.
[14:49:57] <Horologium> so he takes pictures as he goes and sends them off to show the progress.
[14:50:40] <jadew> langoliers, I have a selphy, it's great
[14:50:57] <langoliers> jadew<= does it work nicely on linux ?
[14:51:10] <jadew> that I do not know
[14:51:11] <Horologium> haven't tried printing to it from linux.
[14:51:19] <Horologium> my friend just plugs his camera to it and prints.
[14:51:30] <langoliers> Horologium<= do you have program printing/converting tiff image to R-GN-B-M-Y-lC-lM-G-lG-mK-pK-E format for hp printer?
[14:51:41] <Horologium> umm..why would I have such a thing?
[14:51:57] <langoliers> you work with hp printers i thought maybe...
[14:52:07] <Horologium> I work ON hp printers.
[14:52:18] <Horologium> I make them work...and install HP print drivers.
[14:52:18] <langoliers> this is the new hp 8, 10 12 color process
[14:52:29] <Horologium> beyond that I leave it to the customer to deal with custom crap.
[14:52:32] <langoliers> (160cm wide paper roll printer)
[14:52:51] <Horologium> I try to avoid hp color crap.
[14:52:57] <langoliers> :(
[14:53:01] <Horologium> if I want color I go with xerox.
[14:53:10] <Horologium> and I avoid like the plague anything inkjet.
[14:53:15] <langoliers> but they sell shit printing software for $2k for it
[14:53:15] <inkjetunito> :(
[14:53:42] <Horologium> inkjet costs waaay too much per page for printing.
[14:53:55] <Horologium> at least for what I deal with.
[14:53:57] <jadew> my home made voltage / resistence standard so I can track my meters: http://dumb.ro/files/vref.jpg
[14:54:06] <Horologium> we sell office level copiers and printers.
[14:54:29] <Horologium> by track do you mean calibrate?
[14:54:35] <hackvana> Tom_itx: Would "that boy" be me or RikusW?
[14:54:35] <jadew> Horologium, yeah
[14:55:33] <hackvana> (going to sleep, PM me)
[14:56:15] <Tom_itx> you
[14:56:20] <langoliers> well hp user manual says shake ink cartridges well every 5 days :)
[14:56:25] <Tom_itx> i need some boards but i'll be a few days
[14:56:28] <Horologium> yeah.
[14:56:35] <Horologium> and cost about 700 dollars a gallon.
[14:56:55] <langoliers> sure, customers pay that.
[14:57:00] <Horologium> yup.
[14:57:16] <Horologium> and $0.30 to $1.00 or so per printed page.
[14:58:05] <langoliers> so, the $2k shit sw converts a 5m photo for more than 5 hours on a core i7 with 16GB ddr3 and 120GB ssd system disk
[14:58:08] <Horologium> my current top of the line xerox laser copier does 2400x1200DPI...and we charge $0.068 per page under contract for color..
[14:58:18] <abcminiuser> What have I missed?
[14:58:24] <Horologium> everything.
[14:58:25] <Tom_itx> tons
[14:58:30] <abcminiuser> Aww
[14:58:37] <abcminiuser> Just finished watching A.I.
[14:58:39] <langoliers> Horologium<= sure you can not give alternative solution?
[14:58:42] <abcminiuser> What the christ at the ending
[14:58:45] <Tom_itx> that and your gf
[14:59:33] <Horologium> langoliers, I don't deal with much in the way of high end photo printing.
[14:59:52] <megal0maniac> I liked that movie
[14:59:57] <jadew> abcminiuser, I loved the ending
[15:00:11] <abcminiuser> jadew, whhhaaattt the chrriiiissstttt
[15:00:14] <megal0maniac> Just don't remember the ending :)
[15:00:22] <abcminiuser> Head explosion
[15:00:26] <Horologium> me either...been many years since I saw it.
[15:00:34] <langoliers> Horologium<= i hate color laser crap because ... the random dots
[15:00:35] <megal0maniac> I think I was 12
[15:00:46] <abcminiuser> I always meant to see it, and since I was alone tonight I thought today was as good a day as any
[15:00:52] <RikusW> who wants to build this -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfcpChh9HRk ?
[15:00:56] <Horologium> langoliers, look at the new xerox 7845
[15:00:58] <langoliers> idiots place them in the firmware
[15:01:02] <abcminiuser> Besides, I finished my update to LUFA, so I wanted to have a movie night
[15:01:22] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, all in the git now?
[15:01:25] <Tom_itx> current...
[15:01:29] <Horologium> or even the colorqube 9303....that only does 600DPI but it is a solid ink(read wax) printing system....high temperature inkjet basically.
[15:01:37] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, this is only relevant for AS6.1 users...
[15:01:45] <Horologium> langoliers, they are not random....
[15:01:50] <langoliers> i know that.
[15:01:52] <langoliers> it is shit
[15:01:54] <Tom_itx> i have that loaded
[15:01:56] <Horologium> langoliers, those little yellow dots are serial number.
[15:02:09] <Tom_itx> wouldn't consider myself a 'user' though
[15:02:17] <abcminiuser> In that case http://fourwalledcubicle.com/files/temp/LUFA-TESTING-13.04.13-17.59.34.vsix
[15:02:33] <langoliers> not buying any laster color printers while they do not print what i want
[15:02:42] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, not part of the git then?
[15:02:53] <abcminiuser> It's in the git, latest commit
[15:02:55] <Horologium> langoliers, it is mandated by the federal government...any printer capable of duplicating money will have it..inkjet or laser or die sub...
[15:03:11] <abcminiuser> But this is a packaged version, since I really, really doubt you can package it yourself
[15:03:30] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't try
[15:03:47] <langoliers> Horologium<= it is not capable at all, you need money paper to do that anyway
[15:04:02] <jadew> what dots?
[15:04:04] <langoliers> and UV pigments.
[15:04:04] <langoliers> lol
[15:04:41] <megal0maniac> I was told that printers aren't capable of perfectly aligning the front and reverse sides of duplex prints to prevent fraud
[15:05:10] <megal0maniac> Not sure if I can believe that though
[15:05:52] <jadew> every bug is a feature
[15:07:07] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: No update feature for extensions? :)
[15:07:22] <abcminiuser> megal0maniac, this is a testing version, not pushed to the gallery yet
[15:07:32] <abcminiuser> I'll push it once AS6.1 becomes stable
[15:07:42] <Horologium> megal0maniac, that's part of it, yes....but the biggest thing they do is printing the device serial number on the page in yellow dots in a 2D barcode.
[15:07:43] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: I know, but I tried to install it and it complained that it was alread installed
[15:07:58] <abcminiuser> Ah, it's a deliberately really, really old version number since it's a test release
[15:07:58] <Horologium> it's tiny and hard to see without a magnifier.
[15:08:04] <abcminiuser> Uninstall the one you have, then install it
[15:08:13] <megal0maniac> Already done that :)
[15:08:21] <megal0maniac> Horologium: Damn you!
[15:08:23] <Horologium> also new copiers have money sensors.
[15:08:26] <megal0maniac> Now I'm going to go looking for that
[15:08:30] <abcminiuser> Testing releases will install over each other and releases will install over testing releases, but not the other way around
[15:08:48] <Horologium> if you try to copy money with them in full color at 100% then they will either refuse to do it or lock up.
[15:09:23] <langoliers> Horologium<= for fun, hack firmware, and use some other code, print money, throw it out the window, then lol.
[15:09:38] <megal0maniac> abcminiuser: But I installed from a link you posted here
[15:09:47] <megal0maniac> Was that a release version?
[15:10:03] <abcminiuser> I've only switched to using old numbers for test versions recently
[15:10:13] <abcminiuser> Right now I'm working on addin F1 help for LUFA functions
[15:10:19] <abcminiuser> Not in that release yet
[15:11:05] <Tom_itx> when's atmel gonna offer to take it off your hands?
[15:11:53] <abcminiuser> Heh, they've got their own better stack
[15:12:10] <langoliers> Horologium<= hahaha, printing dye-sublimated money, it has transparent protective coating too and water-proof ^^
[15:12:13] <Tom_itx> it's not better though is it?
[15:12:26] <abcminiuser> Well it's cross architecture and interrupt driven
[15:12:32] <abcminiuser> Mine's smaller though I guess
[15:13:33] <Tom_itx> is theirs freely available or purchase?
[15:13:41] <abcminiuser> Free, part of ASF
[15:13:43] <megal0maniac> Why would interrupt driven be an advantage, though?
[15:13:56] <abcminiuser> Depends on the app
[15:14:05] <abcminiuser> Power usage goes down and it *can* make integration easier
[15:14:18] <abcminiuser> That said, it really depends on your app and interrupt driven gives other headaches
[15:14:51] <megal0maniac> That's what I thought. It's an alternative, not an improvement.
[15:15:31] <abcminiuser> True
[15:15:36] <Tom_itx> it would be rather ironic if they had you working on it as well
[15:15:40] <abcminiuser> Also, mine has a more amusing name
[15:15:54] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, I do bits and pieces on it but it's 99.9% done in France
[15:16:24] <abcminiuser> The real sadface I have for it is that it's really difficult to customize beyond the classes they've added and configured
[15:16:35] <abcminiuser> At least mine makes it easier to design and extend your own classes
[15:17:12] <megal0maniac> That's why we here at #avr love LUFA! <infomercial face>
[15:17:29] <abcminiuser> That and I pay you all to advertise
[15:17:38] <abcminiuser> You got your marketing cheque in the mail, yes?
[15:17:50] <Tom_itx> i get perks, yes
[15:17:55] <megal0maniac> :/
[15:18:15] <langoliers> interrupt has a few cycle response time.
[15:18:15] <megal0maniac> I have been misled
[15:18:26] <langoliers> polling has whatever response cycle
[15:18:37] <abcminiuser> Oh man I can't wait for this update to go live
[15:18:54] * abcminiuser *rubs hands with glee*
[15:19:35] <megal0maniac> Shit there are a lot of USB examples in ASF...
[15:20:14] <jadew> looks like $5 meters are accurate enough for most tasks, my $5 one was almost on par with my $50 one
[15:20:17] <Tom_itx> put him in a god forsaken frozen country, take away his gf and abcminiuser gets some good coding done
[15:20:19] <Tom_itx> :D
[15:23:14] <abcminiuser> Sadface.
[15:24:37] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: I mean the official Atmel ones. But none of them are as exciting as "Printer bootloader"
[15:24:50] <abcminiuser> s/exciting/crazy/h
[15:24:56] <abcminiuser> */g
[15:25:05] <megal0maniac> Just "HID mouse example" for a bizillion architectures
[15:25:23] <abcminiuser> I was asked to copy our training we developed onto 50 USB sticks on Friday
[15:25:35] <abcminiuser> The training guy though he was being funny, giving me a crappy task
[15:25:38] <abcminiuser> So, https://twitter.com/abcminiuser/status/322665947368419329/photo/1
[15:25:45] <abcminiuser> Plus a little makefile
[15:26:11] <Tom_itx> studio should support gang programmers
[15:26:50] <Tom_itx> i suppose most of those are standalone though
[15:28:22] <abcminiuser> Mostly
[15:35:23] <abcminiuser> Back in 5, need to use the VPN for a sec
[15:37:15] <RikusW> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-f-SBC0GrU solder qfn with iron only
[15:40:37] <specing> abcminiuser: it would be easy if you had Linux
[15:41:05] <specing> write an udev hook that runs a copy script upon inserting an usb
[15:41:09] <specing> :)
[15:49:12] <Horologium> http://hackaday.com/2013/04/13/working-3d-printed-stepper-motor/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29
[15:50:48] <langoliers> :)
[15:51:40] <abcminiuser> specing, that's going to be V2
[15:51:49] <abcminiuser> We're going to use the Linux infoscreen server as a replicator
[15:52:02] <abcminiuser> So the training team can dump their data into a special folder on a fileserver
[15:52:02] <langoliers> but...
[15:52:09] <langoliers> a cd motor is the same
[15:52:10] <abcminiuser> Then just jam disks into the machine to replicate
[15:52:14] <langoliers> and it is better
[15:54:08] <Malinuss> making a pulse oximeter is a bitch, mostly because nobody ever made one before as a hobby-project it seems
[15:54:32] <Malinuss> sure people made things they called "pulse oximeters", but they are all just pulsemeters, which are very easy to make
[15:57:32] <Horologium> langoliers, the beauty of that one is the motor is home made...plastic bits 3D printed and all.
[15:58:33] <langoliers> i used to rewind bldcs, are those home made too then?
[15:58:48] <langoliers> i don'd make ndfeb magnets ;/
[16:06:54] <megal0maniac> Just dismissed the pin count theory for attiny :/
[16:07:12] <megal0maniac> attiny 20 has 28pins in DIP. Same as mega328
[16:07:32] <megal0maniac> And can only be programmed with hvpp. Must be old..
[16:07:40] <RikusW> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xz4LCIJyd2A
[16:07:46] * RikusW would like to have that :)
[16:08:13] <RikusW> tiny 20 use TPI
[16:08:21] <RikusW> tiny40 too
[16:08:30] <Tom_itx> they do?
[16:08:35] <RikusW> yes
[16:08:53] <megal0maniac> Whoops
[16:08:59] <megal0maniac> t28
[16:09:15] <RikusW> t28 is useles
[16:09:18] <RikusW> s
[16:09:28] <RikusW> hvpp every time :S
[16:09:29] <Tom_itx> WHY
[16:09:35] <Tom_itx> woops
[16:09:36] <RikusW> no ISP
[16:09:47] <megal0maniac> Or serial anything
[16:10:01] <Malinuss> RikusW, but those are old too, aren't they?
[16:10:10] <megal0maniac> Very
[16:10:10] <RikusW> heh no it can be t28 ?...
[16:10:20] <RikusW> there is one HVPP only AVR though
[16:10:48] <RikusW> *can't
[16:11:10] <Tom_itx> what pinout are the tiny20 & 40?
[16:11:36] <RikusW> seems t28 is HVPP only indeed
[16:11:45] <RikusW> Tom_itx: more than 6
[16:12:09] <RikusW> t20 = 14pin
[16:12:15] <megal0maniac> 16
[16:12:23] <megal0maniac> I mean 14 :)
[16:12:28] <RikusW> t40 = 20pin
[16:13:43] <megal0maniac> Another interesting thing, does anyone know why the atmel studio help docs say that ATxmega128C3 is only supported by the simulator? (Thus, no programmers whatsoever)
[16:14:00] <Malinuss> also I still don't get the idea with attinys that have 8< pins.. I mean, why are they even called tinys?
[16:14:13] <Malinuss> they are not tiny (especially in DIP)
[16:15:38] <specing> abcminiuser: don't have any AT91SAM Linux eval boards to use for that purpose?
[16:15:55] * specing pets his AT91SAM9260
[16:16:10] <Tom_itx> ok, setting up for an evening of oven soldering
[16:16:11] <abcminiuser> specing, I have a nice SAM9M10G45EK board I can't make heads or tails of
[16:16:52] <specing> haha
[16:20:35] <megal0maniac> OndraSter__: How's that oven coming along?
[16:43:41] <megal0maniac> Goodnight all
[17:30:09] <langoliers> do you usually place wires between 2 balls of a bga ?
[17:31:54] <langoliers> 0.25mm ball/0.25mm distance
[17:32:01] <langoliers> ;/
[17:32:19] <RikusW> .5 pitch ?
[17:32:27] <RikusW> thats nuts...
[17:32:55] <RikusW> seems its even going down to .4 and .3 ....
[17:33:57] <langoliers> atmel 32cc1 package ;/ it is 4x4mm 32 ball
[17:34:22] <langoliers> but the 28 pin vqfn is 4x4mm too
[17:34:32] <langoliers> diff is 4 pins
[17:36:45] <langoliers> i like the mlf second after the tqfp32
[17:37:41] <Tom_itx> it's a bit harder to fix mlf after toaster oven
[17:37:52] <Tom_itx> i like tqfp just fine
[17:39:27] <langoliers> note that bga are not rated at 105C :)
[17:40:16] <langoliers> thermal stress will cause failure i think
[17:40:32] <vsync_> thermal stress, what a great marketing department -word
[17:40:40] <Tom_itx> it's true
[17:40:53] <vsync_> yes i know
[17:41:00] <Tom_itx> that's why qfn have a center pad
[17:41:31] <langoliers> vsync_<= well different materials have different expansion coefficients over temperature
[17:41:50] <Neutron110> I got some XMEGA-A1 Xplained board from a mate that doesn't need it anymore. the board has a light sensor.. does anyone have any idea of what the sensor is and what sort of bandwidth it might have?
[17:42:16] <vsync_> langoliers: that is true aswell
[17:42:31] <vsync_> beside the point, but true nevertheless
[17:43:07] <langoliers> military likes ceramic packages with pjcc type leads
[17:45:39] <langoliers> http://elcodis.com/photos/12/43/124385/fz-68-plcc_pkg.jpg
[17:45:45] <vsync_> yeah was thinking plcc
[17:46:35] <langoliers> somewhat similar to tqfp
[17:47:05] <langoliers> the bent leads take some deformation
[17:47:33] <homeflix> another night another try :D second run on the usbasp pcb :D
[17:47:43] <RikusW> Neutron110: the xplain board docs come with AVR Studio
[17:47:47] <RikusW> and on the atmel site
[17:59:44] <langoliers> a mission critical electronic in a car i recently disassembled just uses bare chips on a ceramic substrate with aluminium bond wires and the whole thing is filled with a thick colorless silicone gum
[18:00:17] <langoliers> it is cheap and can take abuse
[18:00:45] <langoliers> similar to a deadbug mounted bga ;)
[18:01:03] <tzanger> interesting. even with the 5kHz buspirate patch the thing is spotty. changing the fuses up to 9.6MHz clock makes things work fine again
[18:17:18] <Horologium> Neutron110, what does it look like? little round thing with squiggly line in the middle?
[18:18:20] <Neutron110> Horologium: the board, or the light sensor itself?
[18:19:52] <kdehl> Oh yes. I just managed to create a small serial terminal. It takes three commands: read, write and status. It reads or writes a byte to an external EEPROM.
[18:20:27] <kdehl> Though the commands take no arguments as of yet. So it's always the _same_ byte, being saved to the _same_ location. But still!
[18:20:55] <cluelessperson> damn it
[18:21:00] <cluelessperson> I just cannot get myself started in ASM
[18:22:06] <Horologium> the light sensor.
[18:24:46] <Neutron110> Horologium: it's some little SMD sensor with 3 pins.. it's all transparent, with the light sensor itself in the middle of the glass/plastic block :P
[18:25:10] <Horologium> sounds like a phototransistor.
[18:26:13] <Neutron110> http://www.nlvocables.com/images/xplained/XPlain_Large.jpg looks like this one
[18:29:02] <Neutron110> you see the light sensor in the top left of the board there.. just next to the first switch
[18:31:06] <Neutron110> I will see if I can find out what it is, and find a datasheet for it tomorrow.. was just thinking of using it for some experimental data transfers
[18:31:15] <Horologium> look at the schematic.
[18:31:37] <Horologium> it is in a zip file in the documents section for that board on the atmel site.
[18:32:35] <Neutron110> hmm
[18:37:57] <Horologium> it is a temp6000 phototransistor
[18:38:34] <Horologium> http://uk.farnell.com/vishay/temt6000/phototransistor/dp/1328401
[18:39:32] <Horologium> right in the schematic in the zip file that is part of the hardware users guide.
[18:40:23] <Horologium> temt6000
[18:40:42] <Horologium> hard to type that without screwing it up...
[18:58:13] <langoliers> Horologium<= oh wow, it does not have a unit price, i need 1 million pieces
[19:00:08] <Horologium> that was just the first link I found with the datasheet on it.
[19:00:17] <Horologium> I'm sure there are other places to get it.
[19:01:09] <langoliers> is it as good as a cds ldr for sensing visible light?
[19:01:33] <langoliers> photodiodes are really useless for twilight switch because they sense IR
[19:03:44] <langoliers> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1652638&MER=baynote-1652638-pr < these work fine
[19:42:31] <Burgundy> Hey! I'm looking to get started into interacting with AVR and the person that told me about this recommended that I start with an Arduino Uno board and ISP USB programmer.This looks like a good recommendation and it seems there are a lot of materials about the Arduino, but the question I already have is what does the ISP programmer actually do as it seems you are able to program the Arduino board
[19:42:31] <Burgundy> just with a plain USB cable and the IDE they provide.
[19:45:10] <homeflix> hi Burgundy! iam currently in the same situation as you ;)
[19:45:27] <Burgundy> heh, hi, homeflix!
[19:45:29] <homeflix> the usb isp programmer is used to flash the initial arduino bootloader
[19:45:35] <homeflix> as far as i understand
[19:45:39] <homeflix> iam a very beginner
[19:45:51] <homeflix> you can buy preflashed arudino chips
[19:46:02] <Burgundy> eh, I'm the undefined term, before beginnder, as I don't even have the board yet :)
[19:46:07] <homeflix> or use the usb isp programmer (right now iam building a usbasp programmer from fischl)
[19:46:40] <homeflix> to program factory-atmel-chips
[19:46:47] <homeflix> *empty
[19:47:35] <homeflix> idk how far you want to go, if you want to etch the pcb and so on, but a cheap entry would be to buy a chinese arduino clone for 10$
[19:48:17] <homeflix> i myself need the usbasp isp programmer for another project, thats why i want to build one
[19:48:49] <Burgundy> homeflix: I see, so it's definitely a needed piece of hardware.
[19:49:43] <homeflix> well, if you are only into mini arduino breadboard projects, its not needed in my eyes... but if you want to build an arduino clone yourself, youll need one (or buy a preflashed chip then)
[19:50:14] <homeflix> but the usbasp is very cheap and allows you to programm almost all atmel chips (again, as far as i read)
[19:50:24] <homeflix> *chips with a isp interface
[19:50:33] <theBear> if yer any good at electronics and got a SLIGHTLY older pc you can build a parport programmer with a single 74 series chip, or even just 3 or 4 resistors if yer feeling lucky
[19:50:59] <homeflix> yeah.. i would use that, but none of my notebooks got a parallel port anylonger :/
[19:51:12] <homeflix> i even have to flash the usbasp firmware at a friends pc
[19:51:13] <homeflix> :/
[19:51:42] <Horologium> just know that programming an arduino board in the arduino IDE is not the same as programming for a bare AVR...the arduino libs abstract a lot of stuff from you so you don't need to know very little about the ship.
[19:51:42] <theBear> heh, i'm just in the finishing stages of getting my 'new' machine ready for everyday use... kinda weird, doesn't even have ps2,6 months ago i wouldn't have had a keyboard i could use with it :)
[19:51:44] <Burgundy> homeflix: I'm not yet sure of what I want, I'm intrigued about the idea and I'd like to get into it; in the longer run I'd like to understand how the whole damn thing works, not just program it to do things for me and also I intend to try and get acquainted with ARM as it seems you find those in everything these days.
[19:52:36] <homeflix> Burgundy: :D we're at the same stage right now :P
[19:52:38] <theBear> heh, these days 5 bucks will get you a little arm on a tiny devboard ready to go
[19:52:52] <homeflix> i decided to build the usbasp, cause its damn cheap
[19:52:57] <Horologium> theBear, my main computer still has ps/2 ports, parallel, and dual serial ports.
[19:52:57] <homeflix> and very versatile
[19:53:00] <Burgundy> Horologium: I was somehow aware of that, however I'm not aware of what it abstracts for me, probably because I don't really have a clue about microcontrollers and electronics yet.
[19:53:09] <homeflix> http://thomaspfeifer.net/einfaches_atmel_programmierkabel.htm
[19:53:18] <homeflix> heres an overview over atmel parallel cables
[19:53:20] <theBear> if i wanted a dev board i used to have to wait until someone smashed the screen on a 'smart phone' when i started playing with arm 10 years ago
[19:53:31] <homeflix> 3 resistors and your got to go as far as i understood
[19:53:42] <Horologium> homeflix, don't even need resistors.
[19:53:52] <homeflix> ^^ nice :D
[19:54:10] <Horologium> programmed my first atmega32 with just some wires pushed into the parallel port on the back of this computer.
[19:54:50] <theBear> hehe, i still got my first programmer, 3 resistors in the back of a shell-less db25 with a couple zipties to hold it all together (for long term durability :)
[19:54:56] <Burgundy> theBear: in regards of ARM, I was looking at this cheap board http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32L-DISCOVERY/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuhSiU2%2f%2fjo2iK2MkzqOiaV; is it any good for learning purposes?
[19:55:28] <quxy> is anyone familiar with the ObDev CrossPack? I'd like to use my own template with avr-project and can't figure out how to specify another template.
[19:55:32] <theBear> that's 'the one' ... hmm, that link doesn't work when it tries to swap countries behind my back, but that's the series
[19:55:42] <homeflix> Burgundy: where are you from?
[19:55:55] <theBear> calais perhaps ?
[19:56:04] <theBear> bruge ?
[19:56:10] <Burgundy> theBear: yes, was just checking the link myself because I was not sure it worked, the series is STM32L-DISCOVERY.
[19:57:14] <theBear> yeah, country code at start caught my eye, makes me grumpy when international websites do stuff like not matching different country links, and just plain changing the country part of the link when you have specified it elsewise... fortunately its 'saturday night' still, and i'm in a good mood :)
[19:57:16] <Burgundy> no, unfortunately not, I'm from Romania, so that's mainly why I'm looking at this and that, because I don't wanna invest too much, but also I'd like to order all the stuff I definitely need from start.
[19:57:47] <TechIsCool> anyone use the nRF24L01+ I am having trouble getting them to talk.
[19:59:06] <homeflix> Burgundy: look into one of the toner-transfer-etching tutorials and build an arduino yourself
[19:59:14] <homeflix> you only need the chip and a few passives
[19:59:29] <homeflix> plus a usbasp programmer or the parallel port cable
[19:59:35] <homeflix> thats my plan to get into this
[20:00:04] <homeflix> all together cost me ~20€
[20:01:04] <homeflix> if you order it directly in china over ebay it would even work for less money to get all the basic things
[20:01:10] <Burgundy> homeflix: I see, googled that, looks like very 'hands on' :)
[20:02:43] <homeflix> i saw a vendor on ebay (dont have the url right now) who sells alle the arduino parts (atmel chip, crystal, etc) in one kit for ~10€ if i remember it right
[20:03:31] <theBear> sound about the right price
[20:04:17] <homeflix> nice, and as far as nobody rants at my instructions it seems i myself understood it right :P
[20:05:25] <theBear> who knows, i was playing with a doggy :)
[20:05:33] <homeflix> ;)
[20:25:44] <jadew> this chip is pissing me off
[20:26:00] <jadew> anyone played with ad9834?
[21:20:26] <langoliers> all dev boards just use the single row gold jumper pins?
[21:20:36] <Horologium> no
[21:20:41] <Horologium> some use double row
[21:20:53] <Horologium> I have some I made that have triple row.
[21:20:53] <langoliers> oh yea :)
[21:21:07] <Horologium> and have been toying with the idea of using rj45 connectors.
[21:21:46] <langoliers> seems easier to solder wires to the single row thing at the edge of the board
[21:22:06] <Horologium> wires break if you bend them too much.
[21:22:26] <langoliers> yes, ;/ i should add strain release holes
[21:22:48] <langoliers> and pipe the cat5-e wires through them
[21:23:18] <langoliers> but for development it should be fine
[21:55:20] <jadew> finally got that chip working
[22:02:54] <Tom_itx> houray!
[22:03:15] <jadew> yep, spent the whole night trying to figure out what's wrong
[22:03:30] <jadew> I had to re-read the datasheet to realize I forgot two resistors from the design
[22:03:31] <Tom_itx> operator or other?
[22:06:57] <Horologium> standard I.O. error.
[22:07:16] <Tom_itx> yay, another batch of boards done
[22:07:35] <jadew> heh Horologium
[22:07:42] <jadew> Tom_itx, what are you baking?
[22:07:48] <Tom_itx> programmers
[22:07:52] <jadew> nice
[22:08:07] <Tom_itx> i gotta get more boards for the blue ones
[22:08:22] <jadew> the small ones?
[22:08:33] <Tom_itx> they're both small :)
[22:08:48] <jadew> well the blue one looked smaller :P
[22:08:52] <Tom_itx> i suppose it's a tad bit smaller
[22:09:13] <Tom_itx> not much if any
[22:09:23] <Tom_itx> just layed one over the original
[22:09:55] <jadew> it does look better tho :P
[22:10:56] <Tom_itx> takes alot longer to make too
[22:13:38] <jadew> I'm off to bed, night o/
[22:13:50] <Tom_itx> night