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[03:02:50] <sabesto> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWlpqSrabKs
[04:50:30] <grummund> sabesto: very clever
[05:06:51] <grummund> no doubt there will be a follow-up video showing how he did it
[06:48:28] <manoj__> hi i am a newbie for avr
[06:49:02] <manoj__> please tell me can i use the usbasp for fuse bits
[06:49:10] <manoj__> in avr
[06:49:23] <manoj__> along with avrdude
[06:58:52] <Horologium> yes
[07:00:48] <manoj__> i have heard that HV programmer are used to to this.
[07:01:17] <manoj__> is usbasp is also a HV programmer
[07:01:23] <Horologium> no
[07:01:24] <Horologium> and no
[07:01:34] <Horologium> you do not need a high voltage programmer to program avr fuses.
[07:02:08] <Horologium> if you happen to screw up the fuses in certain ways then you will need a high voltage programmer to fix them.
[07:02:22] <manoj__> ok
[07:02:34] <Horologium> specially when dealing with clock source fuses.
[07:02:39] <manoj__> i have studied this in some articles
[07:03:10] <manoj__> ok that means only usbasp is enough to program fuse bits
[07:03:15] <manoj__> with avrdude
[07:03:40] <Horologium> http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/avrdude.html
[07:03:50] <Horologium> http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/fuses.html
[07:04:10] <langoliers> hey
[07:04:19] <langoliers> sup Horologium?
[07:04:40] <Horologium> I am, I think.
[07:04:43] <Horologium> about to head for work though.
[07:16:03] <langoliers> abcminiuser why does atmel can't decide a standard icsp programmer pinout on all packages?
[07:16:24] <langoliers> and the reset pin at the other end of the package on the mega48 ;/
[07:16:30] <Horologium> miso, mosi, sck, reset...what else do you need?
[07:16:48] <langoliers> well they should be next each other in same order
[07:16:55] <Horologium> why?
[07:17:06] <Horologium> just to make your life easier?
[07:17:13] <langoliers> so a single sided direct connection could be made simply to the conenctor
[07:17:15] <Horologium> :}
[07:17:16] <langoliers> yes
[07:17:29] <Horologium> off to work.
[07:18:22] <langoliers> i have made standrd this: GND SCK ~RESET MISO MOSI, but still i have to route the reset line under the tqfp to the other side that i don't really like
[07:18:46] <langoliers> and other packages need crossing of connections...
[07:20:27] <langoliers> GND routing is easy, ground plane
[08:01:18] <tomatto> hi
[08:02:47] <tomatto> can i do generate 4secs impulse on any logical change at input easily than with microcontroller? with ne555 more likely?
[08:43:47] <manoj__> hi
[08:43:51] <manoj__> http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc
[08:44:04] <manoj__> please tell this calculator
[08:44:42] <manoj__> for the fuse bits is appropriate for programming ATMEGA16A using usbasp
[08:45:01] <manoj__> or not
[08:45:03] <manoj__> ?
[08:45:28] <manoj__> are the default values of fuse bits good to go with or i need to change them?
[09:51:08] <sabesto> grummund: not that hard, he simply had a pickit hooked up to a target on the right side of the laptop
[10:06:30] <xoom> hi
[10:07:25] <xoom> who can help little bit with avr asm code?
[10:07:42] <xoom> from
http://www.scienceprog.com/avr-dds-signal-generator-v20/
[10:08:20] <xoom> i want to understand it :)
[10:30:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/AVR_instruction_set.pdf
[10:30:22] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/pdf/atmel/ASM_User_guide.pdf
[10:31:14] <xoom> i already readed about instructions
[10:31:34] <xoom> add r18, %0
[10:31:37] <xoom> like here
[10:31:46] <xoom> %0 what is that
[10:32:07] <xoom> like variable
[10:32:19] <xoom> but how to know from where its taken
[10:36:08] <Tom_itx> what assembler are they using?
[10:37:49] <xoom> im trying to make it on avr studio
[10:38:19] <xoom> original code is here:
http://www.qsl.net/zs1ayj/downloads/dds%202313.asm
[10:41:02] <Tom_itx> add r18, %0 isn't in that file
[10:41:26] <xoom> thats why im showed first link
[10:41:55] <Steffanx> I think this is what xooms sees
http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/inline_asm.html
[10:42:18] <Tom_itx> looks that way
[10:42:26] <Tom_itx> it's got a C wrapper
[10:43:01] <Tom_itx> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/inline_asm.html
[10:43:22] <xoom> that explains little bit :)
[10:44:30] <Tom_itx> http://www.avr-asm-tutorial.net/avr_en/beginner/JUMP.html
[10:44:41] <xoom> bad thing is that im still not get the idea how that DDS works
[10:45:01] <xoom> all that calculation.. accumulators
[10:46:32] <Tom_itx> i believe %0 is the first parameter passed
[10:46:33] <Tom_itx> etc
[10:46:42] <Tom_itx> maybe i'm wrong
[10:46:45] <Tom_itx> i don't do alot of asm
[10:46:54] <xoom> i thouhgt that too
[10:47:11] <xoom> that bottom line is like all wariables in series
[10:47:39] <xoom> "r" (ad0),"r" (ad1),"r" (ad2),"e" (signal),"I" (_SFR_IO_ADDR(PORTD)), "I" (_SFR_IO_ADDR(SPCR))
[10:47:39] <xoom> :"r18", "r19"
[10:50:47] <Tom_itx> http://www.ibiblio.org/gferg/ldp/GCC-Inline-Assembly-HOWTO.html#s5
[10:51:40] <Tom_itx> Register names are prefixed by % ie, if eax is to be used, write %eax.
[10:53:21] <Tom_itx> there's an asm comparison table between Intel and AT&T
[10:53:26] <Tom_itx> partway down
[10:55:08] <Tom_itx> that's why i asked what assembler you were using early on
[10:55:12] <xoom> Tom_itx can you expalin little bit about that DDS how it works
[10:55:17] <Tom_itx> nope
[10:55:37] <xoom> i understand that loop should be very short and fast
[10:55:47] <xoom> to update port pins
[10:55:49] <Tom_itx> that's why it's asm
[10:58:32] <xoom> and that frequency set should be done with delays in that
[11:17:58] <xoom> anyone else can help on that? :)
[11:28:40] * specing just ressurected a dead laptop GPU with a heatgun
[11:29:11] <xoom> for few days :D
[11:29:26] <specing> ?
[11:30:14] <specing> Well the machine served me well
[12:40:23] <liberdiko> Hi, i plan to use an Arduino Leonardo as a PDI programmer thanks to LUFA. And I am not sure about the wiring, so I have a few questions, where do I wire :
[12:40:29] <liberdiko> - the CLOCK pin of the target ? On the TXLED pin of the Arduino ?
[12:40:35] <liberdiko> - the VTARGET pin of the target ? On the Vin pin of the Arduino ?
[12:40:40] <liberdiko> Thanks (:
[12:44:04] <abcminiuser> D0 and D1 should be connected together with a pair of low resistance resistors
[12:44:10] <abcminiuser> That becomes the PDI data
[12:44:53] <abcminiuser> TXLED is the PDI clock
[12:45:03] <abcminiuser> Bummer there, they picked the pin I need for the clock
[12:46:30] <abcminiuser> VTARGET should be connected to an Ax analog pin and the firmware configured for VTARGET measuring
[12:49:41] <Tom_itx> studio 6 asks for firmware updates on the programmer
[12:49:53] <abcminiuser> You can patch that
[12:49:56] <Tom_itx> i guess if you cycle it, it says it's been updated
[12:50:09] <abcminiuser> Change the firmware revision in the AppConfig.h header to the one Studio is looking for
[12:50:48] <Tom_itx> someone mentined it to me today
[12:50:53] <Tom_itx> i haven't seen it yet
[12:51:14] <Tom_itx> i guess i don't stay on the bleeding edge enough
[12:52:24] <abcminiuser> Wooo, import duty refund on a month old Amazon purchase
[12:52:33] <abcminiuser> I'm a whole $.70 richer
[12:52:38] <Tom_itx> heh
[12:53:54] <liberdiko> abcminiuser: Thanks for your quick response, I will try that.
[12:54:09] * RikusW was $36 poorer after importing PCBs via DHL...
[12:55:33] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, you talking about FIRMWARE_VERSION_MINOR?
[12:55:45] <Tom_itx> it's commented out right now
[12:56:37] <abcminiuser> Yup it defaults to the current release version
[12:56:48] <abcminiuser> Uncomment it and define it to the one studio wants
[12:59:06] <Tom_itx> is 6.2.244 the latest?
[12:59:14] <Tom_itx> is 6.1.244 the latest?
[12:59:30] <abcminiuser> Publically yes
[13:00:18] <Tom_itx> what do they do.. publish one and immediately begin another?
[13:00:32] <Tom_itx> or are there multi versions in house
[13:01:06] <abcminiuser> What the heck do you think we do, ship and sit? :P
[13:01:26] <Tom_itx> well you do drink alot of wine :D
[13:01:35] <abcminiuser> I don't do studio :D
[13:02:24] <Tom_itx> someone asked me.. what's the difference between attiny and atmega?
[13:02:34] <Tom_itx> i didn't really have a good answer
[13:03:10] <abcminiuser> Kinda a gray area, and I'm not sure of the exact formal definition
[13:03:19] <abcminiuser> But TINY devices don't have a hardware MUL
[13:05:01] <RikusW> and most don't have UART
[13:05:13] <Tom_itx> well i never really knew
[13:05:22] <RikusW> though there t1634 with two :)
[13:05:32] <Tom_itx> shoots that theory
[13:05:48] <RikusW> and t2313/4313 got one
[13:05:57] <RikusW> the others got USI
[13:06:26] <RikusW> t1634 got 16kb of flash too
[13:06:36] <RikusW> should have been m1634 ;)
[13:07:03] <Tom_itx> An error has occurred in the script on this page.
[13:07:13] <Tom_itx> when i went to look for new versions
[13:07:22] <Tom_itx> as6
[13:08:15] <Tom_itx> then it doesn't revert back to my original download once i'm logged in
[13:08:21] <Tom_itx> what a pita
[13:29:23] <twnqx> hi! did anyone here use the AVR's SPI port in master mode, and can receive anything back?
[13:29:45] <abcminiuser> twnqx, never been done before
[13:29:53] <Tom_itx> avr has spi?
[13:29:56] <twnqx> well, i only receive zeroes
[13:30:00] <twnqx> whatever i do
[13:30:09] <twnqx> unless i use the same pinsin software mode, then i get my data
[13:30:18] <abcminiuser> MOSI <=> MOSI and MISO <=> MISO?
[13:30:43] <twnqx> no, that is correct. if i manually drive sck and mosi i can receive data back on miso
[13:31:00] <abcminiuser> Make sure the AVR's /SS pin isn't an input
[13:31:10] <abcminiuser> If it is it will automatically take the AVR out of master mode
[13:31:15] <twnqx> i know, it's not. manually driven all the time
[13:31:29] <twnqx> (also i get my receive interrupts)
[13:32:22] <twnqx> and with spi clock at clkio/128 it should be slower than my software implementation
[13:36:49] <twnqx> so there are no more known pitfalls. oh well, was worth a shot.
[13:40:53] <RikusW> only the master can transmit
[13:41:04] <RikusW> the slave must wait until the master transmits..
[13:41:53] <twnqx> obivously the master (the AVR) transmits, or i wouldn't get the interrupt
[13:42:48] <twnqx> i really should by a logic analyzer or an oszilloscope :/
[13:42:51] <twnqx> buy*
[13:48:45] <jadew> where do you get the interrupt?
[13:48:49] <jadew> what device is the slave?
[13:49:04] <twnqx> the slave is some SPI flash memory
[13:49:41] <jadew> and it works with software SPI?
[13:49:46] <twnqx> yes
[13:50:11] <jadew> then abcminiuser's suggestion is what pops into my mind too, the SS pin
[13:50:14] <RikusW> did you setup the spi mode right ?
[13:50:19] <jadew> either that, or you missconfigured it
[13:50:27] <jadew> that's what I was about to say
[13:51:15] <twnqx> the code that drives the SS pin is constant, whether i switch to software implementation or not, and there's not much to set up wrong if i am not mistaken...
[13:51:18] <RikusW> that SS pin turning SPI into slave mode is a nasty gotcha :S
[13:51:23] <twnqx> SPCR = (1 << SPIE) | (1 << SPE) | (1 << MSTR) | (1 << SPR1) | (1 << SPR0);
[13:51:38] <jadew> twnqx, there are 4 mondes for SPI
[13:51:44] <twnqx> i tried all 4.
[13:51:45] <jadew> *modes
[13:52:10] <jadew> then yeah, you could really use a scope
[13:52:32] <twnqx> and software is implemented like CPOL = 0, CPHA = 0
[13:52:51] * twnqx stares at trusty bus pirate
[13:53:12] <jadew> if you have a bus pirate you can try sniffing out the data with it
[13:54:08] <twnqx> if only i could get to the pins easily :P
[13:54:26] <twnqx> solder time.
[14:18:16] <twnqx> hm. software version looks good in BP
[14:18:23] <twnqx> hardware like garbage
[14:20:00] <twnqx> especially the bus pirate doesn't see the last sent bit... always 0
[14:26:03] <antto> i need to put a bootloader on an atmega2561, i got a chinese "USBasp" thing which has a 10-pin cable on it
[14:26:36] <RikusW> 10 pin ISP
[14:26:55] <antto> should the mcu be connected to it's usual powersupply (in the device it has to be in) or is the USBasp thing gonna power it alone?
[14:27:23] <antto> RikusW yeah-ish, it says "ISP" on the 10-pin plug
[14:30:05] <twnqx> O_o now that i read SPCR in my irq handler ir works?
[14:38:04] <twnqx> ok
[14:38:07] <twnqx> if i may ask this
[14:38:31] <twnqx> what are the chances that i have to dummy-read the spi config in order to activate it?
[14:38:53] <RikusW> which AVR is that for ?
[14:39:01] <twnqx> at90 can128
[14:39:56] <RikusW> so you're using CAN too ?
[14:40:15] <twnqx> yes
[14:40:18] <megal0maniac> Eek!
[14:41:19] <twnqx> ok, for whatever reason it now just works
[14:41:23] <RikusW> reading SPCR is unlikely to have any effect
[14:41:41] <twnqx> i didn't touch any code
[14:42:23] <RikusW> the lack of sync between master and slave can cause trouble
[14:42:35] <megal0maniac> And the alignment of the stars
[14:42:39] * megal0maniac nods furiously
[14:42:58] <RikusW> megal0maniac: jy is met die maan gepla :-P
[14:43:00] <twnqx> they are synces via SS
[14:43:12] <RikusW> SS will sync yes
[14:43:33] <megal0maniac> Heeltemal :D
[14:43:40] <twnqx> and i set it to 0 before access, and to 1 once it's complete (however many bytes that takes)
[14:44:44] <twnqx> that was the most persistant heisenbug i saw so far...
[14:45:00] <RikusW> megal0maniac: seems like my GSM PCB antenna works quite well :)
[14:45:08] <RikusW> at+csq gives 20 :)
[14:45:20] <RikusW> and thats 10km or more from the tower
[14:46:25] <RikusW> anyone else here familiar with at+c commands ?
[14:46:54] <megal0maniac> Glad to hear it. Was actually thinking about your GSM stuff earlier. Mount it in the roof lining of my car and it responds to an sms with GPS co-ordinates
[14:47:00] * megal0maniac puts hands up
[14:47:13] <megal0maniac> Familiar with, but don't know what any of them mean offhand
[14:47:24] <RikusW> car roof will block the GPS signal...
[14:47:43] <megal0maniac> I have a beesting FM antenna. Couple it?
[14:47:55] <RikusW> na
[14:48:00] <RikusW> GPS use 1.5GHz
[14:48:30] <RikusW> the PA6H module I use got a builtin ceramic antenna
[14:48:51] <RikusW> underneath the car dashboard might be a good place
[14:49:50] <RikusW> FM antenna is for 100MHz..
[14:50:03] <megal0maniac> Isn't that almost exactly what you're making though?
[14:50:34] <RikusW> I'll post some photos sometime
[14:50:41] <megal0maniac> You should
[14:50:47] <RikusW> tried to take some tonight, but it was blurry :(
[14:51:08] <RikusW> I use a SIMCom SIM900 for GSM
[14:51:17] <megal0maniac> I'm trying to get bus-ninja working on U2S. It's similar to bus pirate, but only for I2C and SPI. Still useful though
[14:51:19] <RikusW> and Globaltop PA6H GPS
[14:51:29] <megal0maniac> How the hell will you power it?
[14:51:44] <RikusW> the GSM module ?
[14:51:47] <RikusW> li-ion battery
[14:51:50] <megal0maniac> On a cow
[14:51:59] <RikusW> battery + solar
[14:52:12] <RikusW> still working on that part actually....
[14:52:32] <megal0maniac> Dyno on the tail?
[14:52:41] <RikusW> heh ;)
[14:52:44] <RikusW> lol
[14:52:48] <megal0maniac> Or a small turbine just below the tail?... :P
[14:53:10] <RikusW> gas or solid turbine ? :-D
[14:53:13] <RikusW> *solids
[14:53:19] <RikusW> or water...
[14:53:26] <megal0maniac> Gas
[14:53:31] <megal0maniac> Sies Rikus
[14:53:47] <RikusW> heh
[14:54:01] <RikusW> methane fuel cell ?
[14:56:24] <megal0maniac> Sounds like a winner
[15:06:45] <tzanger> I'm gonna cook up some methane right now
[15:07:15] <megal0maniac> Do you have a cow?
[15:07:22] <megal0maniac> I do
[15:07:49] <tzanger> don't need a cow, just need beans and sauerkraut
[15:08:26] <megal0maniac> Most people in this country have at least one. It's considered a sign of wealth. We even give them to prospective fathers in law to buy their daughters
[15:08:40] <tzanger> which country's that?
[15:08:52] <tzanger> RikusW: nice, what's the trace layout look like?
[15:08:58] <megal0maniac> Isn't that right, RikusW?
[15:09:36] <RikusW> megal0maniac: if you're a traditional black yes...
[15:09:43] <RikusW> South Africa
[15:09:47] <megal0maniac> :P
[15:10:03] <megal0maniac> (I don't have any cows. Just two dogs and a zebra finch)
[15:10:11] * RikusW got plenty cows and horses
[15:10:22] <megal0maniac> But you live on a farm
[15:10:30] <RikusW> yep
[15:10:45] <megal0maniac> I live in the suburbs. No space for livestock
[15:10:46] <RikusW> tzanger: AN_SIM900_SIMCom_Monopole PCB Antenna.pdf
[15:10:56] <RikusW> you should find it with google
[15:11:11] <tzanger> yep found it
[15:11:31] <tzanger> ah looks like a classic meander
[15:11:59] <RikusW> tzanger: got any RF design experience ?
[15:12:03] <tzanger> RikusW: some
[15:12:11] <tzanger> definitely no expert but know enough to be dangerous
[15:12:11] <RikusW> I don't have much
[15:12:18] <RikusW> oooh
[15:12:33] <tzanger> was introduced to RF fairly early on, dad is a ham radio operator
[15:12:39] <RikusW> but I knew enough to put a proper 50 Ohm trace to the antenna
[15:12:53] <tzanger> his QST magazines were my bibles until I discovered his stash of playboys
[15:13:03] <RikusW> used AppCAD, its for free :)
[15:13:15] <tzanger> I'm a big fan of the eagle
[15:13:25] <tzanger> so much that I'm a paid user of it :-)
[15:13:53] <RikusW> AppCAD can do a lot of RF calculations
[15:14:03] <megal0maniac> Met with a guy from a company called Watermark RF Design from the UK. Interesting conversation
[15:14:05] <RikusW> some I don't even understand yet...
[15:14:18] <RikusW> do they do RFID ?
[15:14:41] <megal0maniac> http://watermarkrf.com/design.php
[15:14:50] <megal0maniac> It's light enough for GPRS :P
[15:14:52] <RikusW> tzanger: I used DXP2004 aka Altium for PCB design
[15:15:16] <tzanger> yeah I use eagle for all schematic entry and layout, altium when I must. grew up with orcad pcb/sdt386+
[15:15:32] <RikusW> orcad is $$$$ right ?
[15:16:07] <tzanger> orcad (now cadence) is expensive, yes. altium is pricey too
[15:16:24] <tzanger> I like eagle's multiplatform-ness, scripting language and (now) XML file formats
[15:16:49] <tzanger> I bought the autorouter a long time back, it's just ass
[15:17:06] <tzanger> bought electra a few years back, used it once on a dense design, it did ok
[15:17:21] <tzanger> I hand route pretty much everything though
[15:17:54] <RikusW> so do I
[15:18:02] <RikusW> ever used Kicad ?
[15:18:22] <tzanger> nah
[15:18:30] <tzanger> I stopped looking once I bought eagle
[15:19:04] <RikusW> I'll have a look at Kicad sometime, once I'm on broadband again
[15:19:14] <RikusW> only have GPRS now...
[15:19:50] <tzanger> what are your rates like for cell
[15:19:59] <tzanger> GPRS is a little slow for sure
[15:21:01] <RikusW> about $0.05 / MB
[15:21:02] <megal0maniac> It's bloody horrible
[15:21:14] <RikusW> megal0maniac: was the guy actually in CT ?
[15:21:19] <RikusW> or via irc ?
[15:22:01] <megal0maniac> Na, he's my best friend's uncle. Chatted over dinner (with the rest of the family, but they participate :P)
[15:22:08] <megal0maniac> *they didn't
[15:22:30] <RikusW> probably didn't understand much ;)
[15:32:24] <RikusW> megal0maniac: technical guys like that won't easily be replaced by affirmative action ;)
[15:32:53] <megal0maniac> He's nearing 50. He's in the right generation, it seems. Also living in the UK
[15:33:25] <RikusW> was he only here for a visit ?
[15:34:53] <megal0maniac> Yeah. Studied at UCT but doesn't live here anymore
[15:34:59] <megal0maniac> Kids were born in the UK
[15:35:45] <langoliers> h
[15:44:11] <RikusW> http://www.mikrocontroller-praxis.de/data_article/SIM900/SIM900_HARDWARE.pdf
[16:02:50] <RikusW> PNX4851 SoC inside the SIM900 made by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ST-Ericsson
[16:09:27] <Tom_itx> well dammit. i downloaded the new beta as6, installed it an it still says i have the old ver
[16:10:16] * RikusW still prefer AS4...
[16:11:08] <Tom_itx> me too
[16:11:16] <Tom_itx> but i installed 5 and 6
[16:54:11] <julius_> hi
[16:58:01] <julius_> ive read that: MOV R0, #15 will store the decimal constant into R0, but whats the # used for? why not just use the number without the #?
[17:25:21] <vectory> julius_: because R0 is just a macro that resolves to 0, iirc, so 15 would be equal to R15
[17:25:48] <julius_> R0 resolves to 0 ?
[17:26:04] <vectory> if im not mistaken, yes
[17:26:23] <julius_> how can a register be a macro?
[17:27:32] <vectory> well, try to compile with r0 changed to 0 and see if that changes something ;)
[17:27:48] <vectory> assemble, even
[17:28:12] <vectory> most assemblers are macro assemblers
[18:28:31] <grummund> sabesto: yes but what about the Dragon LED ?
[19:00:07] <Malinuss> for something simple like a IR receiver to control keyboard input (set uC as as a HID-device). what would be easiest? V-usb and a attiny-85 and a crystal? or anything I should watch out for before I order?
[19:02:11] <Horologium_> vUSB is not 100%...there are some computers it will not connect to.
[19:02:19] <Horologium_> I have had about an 80% success rate with it.
[19:02:51] <Horologium_> what are you using for the IR transmitter?
[19:04:23] <Malinuss> Horologium_, my TV-remote. I have that part all working on my devboard though (atmega32u4), which uses the usb-peripheral and some keyboard/mouse/joystick stacks that were already made, just wondering how hard it would be with the V-usb
[19:05:15] <Horologium_> shouldn't be too difficult with vUSB...
[19:06:06] <Horologium_> http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/prjhid.html
[19:06:10] <Horologium_> already done for you.
[19:06:12] <Horologium_> InfraHID
[19:06:38] <Malinuss> oh that's neat
[19:06:53] <Horologium_> also the 1-key-keyboard
[19:15:49] <Horologium_> grounding capacitors?
[19:16:43] <Horologium_> if you mean bypass capacitors, those are useful and/or necessary no matter how good your cable.
[19:17:36] <langoliers> my cable has 35pf at 20cm for each signal wire
[19:17:54] <langoliers> ( every second wire is GND)
[19:18:13] <langoliers> this is how your 80 pin HDD cables work
[19:18:47] <Horologium_> yup.
[19:18:55] <langoliers> coupling between 2 wires at 20cm is about 19pf
[19:19:07] <langoliers> this adds crosstalk and causes faults
[19:19:31] <Horologium_> never had a problem with any crosstalk and my wires are longer than that.
[19:19:43] <langoliers> because you use capacitors to gnd
[19:19:54] <Horologium_> not when I breadboard things.
[19:20:00] <langoliers> :)
[19:20:00] <Horologium_> which is 98% of what I do.
[19:20:22] <Horologium_> I only add bypass caps when I'm building a permanent solution.
[19:20:44] <langoliers> anybody know what is the goal of dasa3 with that inverted reset signal through the NPN transistor?
[19:20:52] <Horologium_> and those only on VCC/GND pairs.
[19:20:59] <langoliers> i see not real advantage compared to the DASA
[19:24:16] <Horologium_> perhaps by using the pins differently you can get more speed?
[19:24:28] <Horologium_> just a wild guess though.
[19:25:29] <langoliers> hmm, that should not matter for the reset line
[19:26:23] <langoliers> but well the author used one less zener diode, like if zener diodes were that expensive
[19:27:54] <Horologium_> but possibly RTS is faster than DTR?
[19:28:46] <langoliers> hah possible
[19:29:08] <langoliers> i'm not in these old things really
[19:29:30] <langoliers> used a serial port once 12 years ago in turbo pascal, inline asm
[19:29:48] <Horologium_> I have a serial port printer here.
[19:29:52] <langoliers> yea
[19:30:22] <langoliers> ok, i tell you what i did then, it was a 8085 system running at 550 baud :) and i wrote a terminal for that
[19:31:27] <langoliers> it is sooo slow :) and useless
[19:31:34] <Horologium_> not useless.
[19:31:45] <Horologium_> there are still uses.
[19:31:50] <langoliers> what would you use a 8085? ,/
[19:31:57] <langoliers> i just grab an atmega
[19:32:07] <Horologium_> I use 8051 chips
[19:32:12] <Horologium_> well, 8052
[19:32:13] <Horologium_> but still.
[19:32:24] <Horologium_> 8085 has a space hardened version.
[19:32:27] <langoliers> 89C2051 ?
[19:32:28] <Horologium_> avr doesn't
[19:32:37] <Horologium_> ds89c450 actually is my preference.
[19:32:39] <langoliers> hehe
[19:33:18] <langoliers> well yeah, they will not send a core2 to out-of space
[19:33:29] <Horologium_> waaaay not space hardened.
[19:33:46] <langoliers> a few gamma rays and it is dead
[19:36:19] <Horologium_> haha...curiosity rover runs a rad750....200MHz powerPC
[19:37:13] <Horologium_> I think there is a watch out there with more processing power.
[19:40:55] <Valen> it probably runs a few of them Horologium_
[19:41:42] * Valen wrote a stocktaking system running on windows CE3 handsets at 100mhz
[19:41:44] <Valen> in python
[19:41:45] <Valen> ;->
[19:42:46] * Valen once designed a rover to operate on Io (the moon of Jupiter, perhaps the most radiation blasted place in the solar system), I used punched tape, hydraulic computing and some bigass valves ;->
[19:43:07] <Horologium_> Valen, 2 of them...one for primary, one for backup computer.
[19:43:20] <Valen> I'm suprised its not 3 tbh
[19:44:04] <Horologium_> and it runs vxworks
[19:44:23] <Valen> yeah they seem to like that
[19:44:30] <Horologium_> it is stable.
[19:44:32] <Valen> though i do recall one of their prior ones running linux
[19:44:35] <Horologium_> and a good OS.
[19:45:03] <Horologium_> and been around a long time.
[19:45:24] <langoliers> hahaha
[19:45:35] <langoliers> punched tape and hydraulic computing
[19:45:53] <Horologium_> fluidics is an old technology that is not used enough in my opinion.
[19:46:17] <Horologium_> anything you can build with transistors you can build with fluidics.
[19:46:20] <Valen> you get a kill you on the spot radiation dose there in about 30 seconds
[19:49:19] <langoliers> cockroaches survive? ;<
[19:49:52] <Valen> probably a minute and a half ;-P
[19:49:53] <langoliers> tame them for collecting data, and samples
[19:50:32] <langoliers> or even better, some langoliers
[19:50:33] <Horologium_> minute and a half...that's enough time for three or four roach generations isn't it?
[20:13:40] <langoliers> the CTS signal is a 12V weak pullup with TTL logic input levels ?
[21:11:19] <theBear> all these people that say vxworks is stable.... i wonder how much actual real world vxworks experience they got... 'cos i seen several versions setup by several 'well respected' companies, and they are all heaps of shit !
[21:48:17] <Vutral> eh
[21:48:33] <Vutral> does selfprogramming the fuses work ?
[22:14:57] <rue_house> I dont think yo ucan address them
[22:16:56] <rue_house> langoliers, the rs232 levels are "+-15V" which can be as low as about +-5V sometimes and be ok, typically on a pc they are +-12V
[22:27:21] <Vutral> lol
[22:27:37] <Vutral> rs232 sucks
[22:28:27] <Valen> whats the cheapest avr with hardware USB?
[22:28:52] <Tom_itx> Valen, probably an atmega8u2
[22:29:21] <Valen> nifty, I'm probabbly going to make a single button keyboard usb hid shortly ;->
[22:29:29] <Tom_itx> that's why ardweenie used them i bet
[22:29:41] <Tom_itx> not much code space
[22:29:47] <Tom_itx> you may want a 16u2
[22:30:07] <Tom_itx> i think they barely got the serial to fit
[22:30:27] <Tom_itx> and have moved to the 16u2 since then
[22:30:50] <Phantom> rue_house: +/-24V
[22:30:59] <Valen> $4 a pop, kinda spendy for the 8u2
[22:31:14] <Valen> 16u2 is like 20 cents more
[22:31:20] <Valen> that'll do lol
[22:31:48] <Valen> if i were to use a 16u2 i could probably let the user customise it from a single key into a macro somehow
[22:31:54] <rue_house> must be buying in volume of les than 25 from dk
[22:32:01] <R0b0t1> >people using megas
[22:32:12] <Valen> that was the plan rue_house
[22:32:20] <Valen> I'd love to ship 10k units of a product lol
[22:32:31] <rue_house> more than 25 usually comes with a signifigant value
[22:32:59] <Valen> right you were rue_house
[22:33:06] <Valen> 2.5 for 16u4
[22:33:32] <Valen> 2.49 for the 8u2
[22:33:43] <Valen> 2.5 for the 16u2 rather
[22:33:52] <Valen> I think I'll blow the extra cent ;->
[22:34:20] <rue_house> IF your in the usa you CAN get free samples from atmel
[22:34:26] <rue_house> not if your in canada tho
[22:34:29] <Valen> no such "luck"
[22:34:32] <Valen> .au here
[22:34:44] <rue_house> mmm
[22:34:57] <Valen> oh buying one or two is no paticular bother for me
[22:35:08] <Valen> element 14 has them and i can pick them up
[22:35:09] <rue_house> rifraf got samples somehow
[23:08:38] <R0b0t1> Yes you *can* get samples from Atmel
[23:08:46] <R0b0t1> but the web form is broken and it takes a month.
[23:08:53] <R0b0t1> It's like they're trying to give you a hint.
[23:10:28] <Tom_itx> someone said it's improved recently
[23:10:30] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[23:19:44] <R0b0t1> Well I was hoping they'd eventually come to that it's not a waste of money.
[23:20:08] <R0b0t1> I tend to appreciate it, can't get a purchase order for everything.
[23:26:53] <langoliers> rue_house<- i have noticed that CTS signal is just tied to the MISO in DASA/DASA3... that means it will do 0-5V at most
[23:27:49] <langoliers> this is why i ask
[23:30:10] <rue_house> strange
[23:30:35] <rue_house> usually +- 5V are min to get passed the rs232schmitt
[23:30:53] <langoliers> well looks like it senses ttl levels too if it works...
[23:31:27] <langoliers> so anything below 1.5V will be low too
[23:31:48] <langoliers> (high)
[23:34:15] <langoliers> tried to locate some sch on rs232 input buffer without luck :)
[23:34:28] <langoliers> but if it works then it works...
[23:40:44] <langoliers> http://avrprogrammers.com/bld-avr-serial-programmer-3.php
[23:41:22] <langoliers> now i was wondering why they say serial programmers are slower than parallel port ones, serial output has more current
[23:42:47] <rue_house> but it takes longer to toggle the io on a serial port
[23:43:35] <langoliers> and this is the dasa
http://avrprogrammers.com/bld-avr-serial-programmer-1.php
[23:43:55] <langoliers> so you think that transistor will improve anything ?
[23:44:58] <langoliers> maybe faster to do that way as Horologium_ said? :(
[23:45:00] <langoliers> :)
[23:48:17] <langoliers> i think i make a modified dasa3 for a backup programmer too