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[01:21:34] <creep> how much better is to separate AGND from DGND ?
[01:22:10] <creep> 32 bit vs 24 bit ?
[01:22:14] <rue_bed> depends how noisy things are
[01:22:28] <creep> i know digital gates are very noisy
[01:23:04] <Roklobsta> creep: follow the chip manufacturers's advice on seperating A and D.
[01:23:19] <Roklobsta> thyey have done all the hard work to minimise it an test it out.
[01:23:30] <creep> fast switching logic transitions will spike broadband up to hundreds of megahertz
[01:23:49] <theBear> some kinds of output are worse than others, some families too
[01:24:06] <creep> Roklobsta<< well they usually recommend to use a groundplane, and just join them somewhere
[01:24:30] <creep> theBear<< combined IR&temperature measurement seems to pass :) the matte black copper IR collector surface makes the PT100 sensor much hotter
[01:24:30] <Roklobsta> yeah but they also suggest plane shapes and placement of C and sometimes L in the right places too
[01:25:22] <creep> i don't have non contact temp sensors now
[01:26:50] <theBear> yeah yeah, i heard yer the first time
[01:30:12] <creep> theBear<< and you're right, a cookie's or bread's R_th_JA is very large
[01:31:03] <theBear> i dunno what a R_th_JA is, but i know what yer saying :)
[01:31:04] <creep> especially when it contains much air
[01:31:15] <theBear> air is a fantastic insulator when compartmentalised
[01:31:24] <creep> junction to ambient thermal resistance ^^
[07:11:31] <oMobius> theBear, hello
[07:43:34] <theBear> hurro
[07:47:47] <MrMobius> theBear, what was the LCD type you recommended that might be drivable with an mcu? i think you said ka0118 but that doesnt get any hits
[07:48:50] <Malinuss> MrMobius, you want colors? What resolution? is power a conecern? black and white? there are 10000s of lcd's one could use with mcu's (all
[07:49:52] <MrMobius> Malinuss, monochrome, 3 inches or bigger, can be run off batteries
[07:50:00] <MrMobius> there arent 10000s of those, hehe
[07:50:35] <Malinuss> nah, but a few hundredes at least :). maybe not all in production though
[07:50:35] <theBear> k0118 are the driver ics, usually maybe 3 or 4 multiplexed/chained for somethign about the size you want
[07:51:00] <Malinuss> Mr_Sheesh, what resolution do you want? Or do you just want to display numbers/letters? how many?
[07:51:01] <theBear> a LOT of mono small lcd screens use them, it won't be in the screen p/n, but it will be in the specs
[07:51:39] <MrMobius> theBear, ah ok. meaning i could get a datasheet for them then?
[07:51:46] <theBear> actually, all the screens that kinda size i've seen in stuff manufactured/sold between maybe late 90s and 2010 has had them
[07:52:07] <theBear> yeah, easily, and they're pretty easy to drive, and have buffer/memory so you don't need to worry about refreshing or anything
[07:52:16] <MrMobius> Malinuss, yeah, im really flexible. the problem is ive bought LCDs before but when there is no datasheet or code you are kind of stuck. some of them are also weird and need 9v or something.
[07:52:18] <theBear> some basic scroll/sprite kinda commands too from memory
[07:52:33] <MrMobius> Malinuss, and resolution would hopefully be better than 128x64
[07:52:41] <MrMobius> i havent found many that fit that criteria
[07:53:16] <theBear> there's even a linux kernel (standard kernel) driver for them on something like parport or gpios
[07:53:32] <MrMobius> theBear, do you mean segmented ones or with a matrix?
[07:53:32] <Malinuss> MrMobius, better then 128x64? If y 84x64 is enough for you, you could use one of the nokia display, they are like 3$ on ebay... otherwise it gets more expensive and uses more power
[07:53:36] <theBear> but the datasheets are easy to find and easy to understand
[07:53:41] <theBear> matrix, no segments
[07:53:43] <MrMobius> ya
[07:53:48] <theBear> graphic, monochrome, smallish
[07:54:00] <MrMobius> 3 inches or smaller than that?
[07:54:09] <theBear> just doing some updates or i'd grab a datasheet to look at for yer, you can still look tho
[07:54:09] <MrMobius> Malinuss, yeah ive got a few cell phone screens here
[07:54:20] <MrMobius> but under 2 inches isnt really big enough
[07:54:29] <MrMobius> ya, thanks for pointing me in the right direction
[07:54:30] <theBear> from memory a single chip can do i dunno, maybe 64*64 or so, bigger displays have more of them
[07:55:03] <theBear> i've seen at least up to about 4" diagonal with average kinda mini-lcd resolution, i dunno, maybe 32 or 48dpi
[07:55:09] <MrMobius> i just cant think of any monochrome 3 inch screens with res above 128x64 ive seen in anything other than a palm pilot or similar
[07:55:45] <Malinuss> MrMobius, I wouldn't expect it to run on battery then, the bigger screens really use a lot of power (At least the ones I've look at).. You can propably not figure out how to use any of your cell phones screens though, it would require a lot of reverse engineering (if nobody have done it yet)
[07:56:08] <theBear> first one that made me learn them was the little pushbutton/controlpanel on the front of an old alpha server (custom mobo based closely on reference design, commercial photocopier 'rip' server), since then i seen them in a handful of disco lights and audio effect stuff
[07:56:17] <theBear> and of course the kernel
[07:56:30] <MrMobius> Malinuss, what do you mean? ive got one working fine and code for the other. the other ones without datasheets ive given up on
[07:56:31] <theBear> so they must be as common as i surmise/extrapolate
[07:57:30] <MrMobius> Malinuss, you dont think if it was the same as a nokia screen but twice as wide and high you could run it from a battery?
[07:58:57] <Malinuss> MrMobius, well if somebody already figured out the pinouts, and you can easliy find the datasheet then it's easy to use the screen, yeah.. but there are propably not too many lcd screen for your specific specifications (which you didn't mention in the start!)
[07:59:26] <MrMobius> Malinuss, sorry, you got to the discussion a bit late. i was talking to theBear about this yesterday
[07:59:29] <theBear> i've always been tempted to reverse a couple of ones i've got in still semi-functional cellphone or pdas, i'd like to see if my only-20mhz-analog-scope and other 'top secret' methods can work on something that complex :)
[07:59:40] <MrMobius> and no knowing the pinouts doesnt really help you with those kinds of LCDs
[07:59:56] <MrMobius> there is a lot of setup data you need to send before it will display anything and that cant really be guessed
[08:00:10] <Malinuss> MrMobius, oh I didn't know, it sounded more like a open-question my bad...
[08:00:13] <theBear> be more than enough to do rgb/scanning input ones which i'm sure some of the older bigger colour pdas have, due mainly to pincounts, ie. you don't need a 24bit or 48bit wide input bus if you got an onboard graphics controller
[08:00:36] <theBear> and you need a LOT more if there's no control/refresh/matrixing circuitry at all
[08:00:53] <theBear> and by refresh i mean both clocking and flipping the polarities regularly so the pixels don't 'fade'
[08:01:12] <theBear> ie, they're not 100% raw lcd panels exposed at the connector
[08:01:47] <MrMobius> what arent raw lcd panels? the older color ones?
[08:02:06] <theBear> i suppose anything using serial/coded communication, especially with init/mode strings and no data, if i can't sniff it with some avr thing i'll never analyze it with my 20mhz analog scopey wopey
[08:02:48] <Malinuss> I'm pretty sure there are no raw-lcd panels that are bigger then 8-segment x 15 or whatever the small calculators have
[08:03:18] <Malinuss> theBear, ever tried driving a "raw-lcd" btw.? I have one from a old thermometer, but never got around to do it...
[08:03:39] <theBear> MrMobius, by raw lcd panel, i mean just a connection for each actual element in the lcd display, which is at least Xres + Yres on a graphic display, and elements * 1 or so on non matrix ones, but that's terrible unless you make blob chips in your big factory, cos you gotta flip the polarity every second or so or they fade, and update/control EVERY pin as often as you want to update, on top of constantly flipping polarity\
[08:04:24] <MrMobius> ehh that sounds like it might not be worth it
[08:04:24] <theBear> Malinuss, i've had a VERY brief play with a little fig/clock one out of some old vcr or clockradio or something i salvaged off a curb years ago, not impossible, but tricky, specially if you do it all soft
[08:04:48] <theBear> i'd be SHOCKED if you found a raw panel in any product more complex than a clockradio or a calculator
[08:05:09] <theBear> it's just so much easier both hobby and mass manufacture wise to put tiny control bits and pieces on board
[08:05:53] <theBear> and the wide-bus non-onboard-graphics-controller ones i described BASICALLY work like a vga or rgb/h/v monitor, just with digital inputs for the r/g/b and a couple extra needs like a clock or two and some weird voltages
[08:06:25] <theBear> but i'm just ranting about them cos i been drinking, i'm pretty sure you wanna find a nice 'easy' one with little controllers like the 0118's
[08:06:42] <theBear> grab a datasheet, it might even list common/example screen res/specs to help you search
[08:06:55] <MrMobius> thats a good idea
[08:07:15] <theBear> i get excited about reverse engineering things i'm pretty sure i can do with whatever i have access to at the time
[08:08:00] <theBear> reminds me, where is that xreaper ? he moved back from near rif to a suburb over from me here recently to finish some college stuff, and he's got a universal everything ((e(e)prom programmer i'm allowed to use
[08:08:18] <theBear> i wanna give my 1983 twin awesome drum machines a little breath of fresh air/sounds
[10:07:56] <kdehl> I want to make an AVR to use VGA output.
[10:08:01] <RikusW> you should hope it works..
[10:08:12] <kdehl> Heh.
[10:08:23] <Steffanx> kdehl, zlib, vga .. want to do more advanced stuff?
[10:08:24] <Steffanx> :)
[10:08:43] <RikusW> surround sound on AVR :-D
[10:09:01] <RikusW> AVR32 maybe
[10:09:34] <kdehl> Hehe.
[10:09:58] <kdehl> No, the zlib was just a thought, nothing that I wanted to to, at least for now.
[10:11:40] <RikusW> I have a 3A3 xplain board with hi-speed usb, that should work for audio streaming :)
[10:11:45] <Malinuss> kdehl, it's impossible to find a IC that will take care of all the sync etc. and be easy to control... so you will need to do it yourself. I sugest buying a extra avr to just take care of that, and have a other uC to use as a "CPU", then you just need some extra memeory for all the video.. here is a thread on how to do it:
http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,102181
[10:11:53] <kdehl> I have a couple of things I want to learn to handle: LCD, networking and PS/2 keyboard and mouse. Then I want to use the networking and keyboard and mouse to connect it to my NES.
[10:12:11] <kdehl> I've only done LCD and (partly) keyboard so far.
[10:12:36] <kdehl> Malinuss: I've thought about having a separate controller for it. I'll have a look.
[10:13:37] <Malinuss> you can't find that... and how in the world you you have used that graphical card with a avr :D?
[10:14:05] <kdehl> Malinuss: Well, the VGA stuff was a side track... :)
[10:14:32] <kdehl> Man, that link was interesting...
[10:14:54] <Malinuss> yeah it explains how VGA actually works
[10:15:58] <kdehl> Why is it so difficult to focus on just one project at a time?!
[11:52:27] <kdehl> Hrmpf.
[11:53:21] <kdehl> Most PS/2 keyboard examples only receive data from the keyboard, but they don't send data to do the LEDs.
[11:54:46] <kdehl> I don't even know whether the keyboard receives my data.
[11:54:58] <kdehl> I really need an oscilloscope...
[11:55:41] <kdehl> Well, it doesn't reply, so I guess it doesn't get any data...
[11:57:10] <kdehl> http://pastebin.com/VjDk97xu
[11:57:15] <kdehl> Any takers?
[12:01:37] <kdehl> When a document says "release the Data line", does it mean the line should be brought high?
[12:01:46] <kdehl> http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~pierards/spe/documentation/PS2-VGA.pdf
[12:02:01] <kdehl> The end of the second page, item 9)
[12:50:14] <Malinuss> kdehl, it propably means it should be low=gnd="release" I guess?
[12:51:03] <kdehl> Malinuss: Ah, okay.
[12:51:20] <kdehl> So, bring low.
[12:51:45] <Malinuss> yeah propably... why are you even sending data to the keyboard?
[12:52:08] <kdehl> To toggle the LEDs
[12:52:40] <kdehl> I need the same routine to be able to handle the mouse anyways, so I figured I could just as well start with that.
[12:53:11] <kdehl> Hm. I found where the bug is, at least... but I don't know why...
[13:08:31] <Tom_itx> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Software/System/Draw_circuits_on_your_mobile_phone.aspx
[13:27:13] <Steffanx> No fancy phone here Tom_itx :P
[13:31:41] <Tom_itx> me neither
[15:48:26] * kdehl got stuck reading some 286 datasheets
[15:57:11] <w|zzy> use circuits.io on your desktop
[17:08:48] <d12_> is it possible to slower rising and falling time of AVR?
[17:11:45] <Malinuss> d12_, it's digital, so it can only be on and off
[17:11:57] <Malinuss> *or
[17:28:44] <Malinuss> anyone using atmel studio + github?
[18:19:20] <kdehl> _finally_ I can set the keyboard LEDs.
[18:19:27] <kdehl> Took me only about three days.
[18:33:51] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, why do you ask?
[18:34:17] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, never used github before, trying to make it work.. no idea what I'm doing haha
[18:34:31] <Tom_itx> funny you asked..
[18:34:39] <Tom_itx> i tried github last night
[18:34:43] <Malinuss> and?
[18:34:51] <Tom_itx> didn't get a chance to finish
[18:35:00] <Malinuss> keep me updated :)
[18:35:11] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure how to set it up
[18:35:18] <Tom_itx> for an exhisting project
[18:36:27] <Malinuss> same here
[18:36:46] <Tom_itx> i'm trying the 'clone in windows' button on one
[18:37:42] <theBear> huh ? is that the button on a modern keyboard under the right shift that NOONE knows why it exists ?
[18:38:00] <Tom_itx> no it's a software button
[18:38:04] <theBear> oh, no, hard to follow conversations this time of day
[18:38:43] <theBear> the sun is up, i think it's time to finish this bourbon and move onto coffee :)
[18:38:45] <Tom_itx> well it seems to be doing something
[18:39:14] <theBear> i'm not against drinking in the morning, just that when i'm at home, it kinda feels crude not to switch to coffee while everyone else is waking up and going to work :)
[18:39:22] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure where it's putting it though
[18:39:25] <theBear> hooray, something is better than nothing
[18:41:34] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, once you have github installed and you click on the 'clone in windows' button it launches github and asks you to login then proceeds to download to a default directory
[18:42:22] <Tom_itx> once you have it, i'm not sure how you get changes to one
[18:42:33] <Tom_itx> dean uses it all the time though
[18:51:12] <Malinuss> thanks, I'll try it out
[18:51:39] <Tom_itx> seems to be working but i'm gonna move the default directory
[18:52:14] <Tom_itx> i originally had it zip the files and download but i kept getting errors with the zip
[18:52:40] <Tom_itx> what are you git ing?
[18:56:41] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, nah just some wireless weather station project, nothing much interesting
[18:56:49] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, just wanting to try it out too
[18:59:42] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, what about you? Are you working on something interesting?
[19:08:00] <Tom_itx> i needed a bootloader but had to download the whole arduino git to get it
[19:10:00] <Malinuss> oh wow
[19:10:40] <Tom_itx> well there was one in there i wanted to try
[19:10:49] <Tom_itx> smaller than the original
[19:11:08] <Tom_itx> 33% done
[19:19:32] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, so what exactly do you do after adding your atmel stduio project folder to a new repository?
[19:20:09] <Tom_itx> you're making a git?
[19:20:12] <Tom_itx> i dunno for sure
[19:21:44] <Malinuss> I see
[19:21:50] <Malinuss> yeah I'm trying to
[19:21:57] <Tom_itx> i'm not about making my own yet
[19:54:38] <Guest27123> hi does someone use tinyos?
[20:02:22] <Malinuss> lel
[20:17:11] <TechIsCool> whats everyone favorite buck converter chip for 3.3v avr work?
[23:13:26] <creep> [225515] <d12_> is it possible to slower rising and falling time of AVR? < yes, with a series resistor.
[23:15:58] <Casper> RC
[23:16:31] <creep> sup? everybody coding?