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[01:39:48] <Vutral> bla
[01:40:19] <Vutral> i think when i write a bootloader
[01:40:22] <Vutral> i add something useful
[01:40:31] <Vutral> like i/o pin initialization
[01:40:40] <Vutral> direction pullups etc.
[02:50:22] <Grievre> Do you need to have AVCC and AREF connected if you're not using the ADC at all? Can you ground them?
[02:52:15] <RikusW> you must connect Vcc to AVcc
[02:53:01] <Grievre> really, hmm
[02:53:12] <RikusW> If you do use the ADC its recommended to use a LC filter, Vcc 10uH AVcc 100nF Gnd
[02:53:36] <RikusW> I've seen AVR chips malfuntion without AVcc connected...
[02:54:13] <RikusW> I'd leave ARef unconnected
[02:54:24] * Grievre nods
[02:56:22] <RikusW> from a ds: AVCCis the supply voltage pin for the A/D Converter. It should be externally connected to VCC,
[02:56:23] <RikusW> even if the ADC is not used. If the ADC is used, it should be connected to VCC through a low-pass filter.
[02:58:33] <RikusW> Grievre: the external AREF pin is directly connected to the ADC, and the reference voltage can be made more immune to noise by connecting a capacitor between the
[02:58:34] <RikusW> AREF pin and ground.
[02:59:13] <RikusW> The 1.1V reference also passes through this pin, so adding a small ceramic cap might be useful when using the ADC
[03:00:19] <RikusW> (m328 ds used)
[03:01:50] <creep> how about using a groundplane, and an LC filter on the DGND ?
[03:02:07] <creep> and digital powersupply
[03:04:45] <RikusW> A & D use a common ground on AVR
[03:05:43] <RikusW> Grievre: a hint, use your pdf viewer to search for AREF etc, its the fastest way to find what you're looking for
[03:06:00] <RikusW> unless you already know the datasheet
[03:06:11] <RikusW> and where too look
[03:09:46] <creep> hm ok... then only the DVCC
[03:10:07] <creep> or is it much better to LC filter both DVCC and AVCC ?
[03:10:30] <creep> AC should not generate digital noise...
[03:10:50] <creep> *AVCC
[03:11:33] <creep> i overcomplicate this oven stuff ;<
[03:12:15] <Roklobsta> seriously, just use your kitchen oven if it's fan focred and electric
[03:12:49] <creep> but, SSR wired, PC power supply in place :), working, needs temp sebsem abd control, and air in out
[03:13:18] <creep> *sense and
[03:13:57] <creep> Roklobsta<< i'm hacking an IR toaster
[03:15:37] <creep> i have added additional difficulty for myself, i'd like to control air exchange rate too
[03:15:53] <creep> and it'd be nice if the whole thing don't melt down
[03:16:15] <creep> sup inductiveload
[03:16:36] <creep> we were just talking about LC filters
[03:16:38] <inductiveload> hi creep
[03:17:04] <inductiveload> :-D
[03:17:17] * RikusW connects some DC to inductiveload :-P
[03:17:31] <creep> would you prefer LC filter on both AVCC and DVCC or, just DVCC ?
[03:17:40] <RikusW> only AVcc
[03:18:02] <inductiveload> RikusW: I can take it, but dare you disconnect it?
[03:18:15] <creep> and put the power to DVCC and let it poison that ?
[03:18:28] <RikusW> inductiveload: As long as I'm not touching you ;)
[03:19:22] <inductiveload> well i'll settle for blowing up a few transistors and the MCU then
[03:21:33] * RikusW shunts inductiveload with a diode :)
[03:23:15] * creep drive inductiveload with current!
[03:24:03] <inductiveload> RikusW: you got me, crepp: you have to buy me dinner first
[03:24:42] <creep> my IR oven is half done yet ;<
[03:25:12] <creep> how about a milk-loaf?
[03:27:37] <creep> don't trust the temperature controller in the ovens and hotplates lol :)
[03:27:55] <creep> they are like noting
[03:30:40] <inductiveload> creep: I always assumed in things like ovens it was probably a mechanical system, like a bimetallic strip or something, or even just open-loop control
[03:30:49] <creep> yes
[03:30:58] <creep> but it doesn't even measure the inside temp
[03:31:29] <creep> nearly open-loop, it turns off before the oven catches fire
[03:32:15] <inductiveload> see, that's a marketing opportunity: "advanced open loop-control with thermal safety cutout"
[03:32:35] <creep> you can set how warm, or how burned you want your slice of bread, and set the time with the same precision :)
[03:33:31] <creep> apparently, it only warms up the bread, toasts a slice in about 45 minutes by default
[03:33:33] <inductiveload> and all for $24.99
[03:33:37] <inductiveload> so why not just stick a thermocouple in there?
[03:34:24] <creep> could do that, but it is too easy to measure the oven wall temperature, i'd like to measure inside air instead
[03:35:04] <inductiveload> thermocouple on an insulating stick?
[03:35:05] <creep> less overshoot, and no overheating
[03:35:31] <creep> tomorrow i'll hack it
[03:35:41] <creep> i have some high temperature silicone, i think that will do
[03:35:51] <inductiveload> C.M.O.T. Dibbler could sell you one
[03:35:52] <creep> 250C continuous, 300C short
[03:36:24] <inductiveload> if you look inside a normal toaser, the backplane of the heater elements is mica
[03:36:26] <creep> what?
[03:36:41] <inductiveload> thermocouple on an insulating stick
[03:36:49] <creep> i have platinum RTD
[03:37:35] <inductiveload> nevermind, it was a Diskworld reference
[03:38:07] <creep> i dislike thermocouples
[03:38:28] <Tom_itx> pt100
[03:38:36] <inflex> or PT1000
[03:38:43] <inductiveload> as for the toaster backplane, if not mica, some other high temp insulator, so good for hacking up mechanical things for inside hot places
[03:38:54] * inflex has moved to PT1000's simply to reduce the current to more reasonable levels
[03:39:00] <creep> inductiveload<< it is a metal sheet
[03:39:36] <creep> inflex<< use a current generator
[03:39:49] <creep> 100uA-1mA is standard
[03:40:17] <creep> 1mA = less precise
[03:40:47] <inductiveload> creep: i mean an actual toaster, not a toaster oven; the elements are somewhat like this:
http://media.mlive.com/muskegonchronicle/photo/-2eb9db0d83611cac.JPG
[03:41:04] <inflex> creep: was using them in the 'simplest possible way', did the job delightfully.
[03:41:36] <creep> inductiveload<< mine is superadvanced then, it has 2 IR lamps
[03:42:28] <Roklobsta> creep: ohohohoh
[03:42:37] <Roklobsta> creep: i have the project for you/
[03:43:13] <Roklobsta> a guy i know has made an openhardware oven controller using and xmega but he hasn't published it yet
[03:43:46] <Roklobsta> it's general purpose so it'll do IR reflow toaster oven or a beer making process
[03:43:51] <creep> Roklobsta<< how does that relate to me?
[03:43:58] <Roklobsta> you said you were making a toaster
[03:44:06] <Roklobsta> i just say it might be of intereste to you
[03:44:09] <creep> i'm hacking it yeah
[03:44:14] <Roklobsta> if i could get the guy to publish his design
[03:44:19] <creep> i have an analog controller
[03:44:28] <creep> and an ADC
[03:44:28] <Roklobsta> i think xmega is overkill
[03:44:54] <creep> just connect to PC and let it work for now
[03:45:03] <inflex> O_o even a mega48 will suffice
[03:45:07] <Roklobsta> PID control loop??
[03:45:26] <Roklobsta> inflex: yeah. BTW, take your Qld weather back
[03:45:38] * inflex did his reflow oven with a 48
[03:45:45] <inflex> ( and that had a LCD on it too )
[03:45:47] <creep> i think an atmega8 or 48 would do btw.
[03:46:04] <Roklobsta> i Vic20 would do
[03:46:23] <[z_z]> hehe. atmega32m1 with can. My oven tells me when a batch is done.
[03:46:36] <creep> but reflow profiling would need some extra code
[03:47:00] <inflex> hah, you really have to have a very good oven (physically) to have any hope of matching a profile
[03:47:00] <Roklobsta> inflex: are you still manufacturing
[03:47:04] <inflex> Roklobsta: no
[03:47:32] <inflex> Realistically, I found just have two steps... (1) prebake, (2) bake. (and then off, so maybe 3 steps ;) )
[03:47:34] <creep> inflex<< applying air exchange solves the problem
[03:47:52] <inflex> creep: as I said, a good oven.
[03:48:02] <creep> inflex<< yeah, same for bread ;)
[03:48:20] <creep> but you might as well want reheat, or keepwarm functions
[03:48:25] <inflex> if you're using toaster elements or pizza ovens, just make it ramp to ~150 for a couple of minutes, then ramp to 220, then turn off.
[03:49:00] <creep> inflex<< i'm gonna toast cookies :)
[03:49:13] <inflex> yeaah, do that too in your reflow oven... tasty toxic :D
[03:49:23] <creep> no, i only use this for food ;/
[03:50:31] <RikusW> even worse, using a silicon die oven for pizza, poisoning the silicon....
[03:50:46] <OndraSter__> lol
[03:50:57] <inflex> Roklobsta: market just turned sour, not enough margin.
[03:51:01] <RikusW> it actually happened
[03:51:17] <RikusW> the cleaning people used it for pizza...
[03:51:22] <creep> RikusW<< circuits smells like chips would be awe no? ahah
[03:51:36] <OndraSter__> leaded paste?
[03:51:38] <OndraSter__> fumes? :D
[03:51:52] <RikusW> Each Monday the first batch of silicon would be faulty....
[03:52:18] <creep> OndraSter__<< yeah, leaded paste, because it is better
[03:52:30] <creep> the flux is neat too, no-clean type
[03:53:03] <OndraSter__> creep, I mean, those fumes and leaded junk would end up in the cookies or pizza or anything :D
[03:53:04] <creep> moderately hazardous only
[03:53:16] <creep> OndraSter__<< yeah i know that
[03:53:33] <creep> but chips smell wouldn't hurt the circuits
[03:55:44] <creep> i should make a large one sometime later
[03:56:45] <creep> how do you connect the PT? :)
[03:57:04] <creep> for measuring >250C
[03:58:07] <creep> spot-weld? cold-weld? crimp?
[03:59:43] <inflex> terminal block
[03:59:46] <inflex> or crump
[03:59:48] <inflex> crimp
[04:38:43] <turutk> can i use an atmega32 to make sound?
[04:38:52] <turutk> like 8-bit sac with some resistors
[04:38:58] <OndraSter__> sure
[04:39:03] <OndraSter__> you can even do PCM :P
[04:39:04] <OndraSter__> which is PWM
[04:41:43] <Malinuss> turutk, I made mine play .wav files directly from a SD card, so yeah
[04:42:50] <turutk> how long can a .wav file be if i use internal storage?
[04:43:43] <turutk> i know pwm and dac work differently but what's the difference at the end?
[04:44:29] <Malinuss> turutk, haha depending on your chip. you have the atmega32u4? Then it's 32kb... I think I used 8000bytes/s sampling, so about 1-2 sec?
[04:45:03] <Malinuss> turutk, in other words: stream it from your computer/store on a SD card
[04:45:10] <turutk> Malinuss: so i gotta buy a sd card holder
[04:45:39] <yunta> or solder your sd card straight in :)
[04:45:50] <Malinuss> not even need to solder
[04:46:08] <turutk> i could solder one
[04:46:16] <Malinuss> I just used tape + pins on mine, and set it directly into breadboard
[04:46:32] <Malinuss> never had problem, and very east to take off/on
[04:47:35] <turutk> Malinuss: so you used 8 pins to get one output and connected it to a speaker?
[04:47:55] <Malinuss> turutk, wut? nooo just 1 pin
[04:48:14] <Malinuss> 1 pin, and to one speaker
[04:48:45] <turutk> Malinuss: your uC had built-in dac?
[04:48:51] <Malinuss> turutk, no
[04:49:01] <Malinuss> turutk, I used a atmega32u4
[04:49:25] <turutk> Malinuss: so PWM?
[04:49:35] <Malinuss> yep fast pwm
[04:50:20] <turutk> i thought you did like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-vUg7h0lpE
[04:51:32] <Malinuss> turutk, like I said, I didn't use a dac
[04:54:53] <turutk> i will try to make one using atmega8 and a sd card
[04:55:28] <Malinuss> turutk, thanks for the video though, never thought about that ;P. Would be interesting to set that up, vs no dac and play some tunes, to compare how it sounds
[04:56:40] <turutk> Malinuss: when i saw the video. i wondered why he didn't use pwm and i thought it was impossible with pwm
[04:57:13] <turutk> did you use opamp+potentiometer or was the sound level good?
[04:59:08] <Malinuss> turutk,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation ... I think I used a simple opamp circuit, using transistors, because the sound level was pretty low (even though I used a old time pc speaker)
[05:02:35] <turutk> "…make up the soundtracks of classic video games."
[05:02:54] <turutk> that is my goal :D
[05:03:02] <turutk> sound for my led matrix tetris
[05:06:29] <turutk> i have this other problem. i have a function that reads time from RTC chip ds1307. returns an array of uint8_t. i have another function which takes ascii characters and prints on my dot-matrix led display
[05:06:57] <turutk> so it works like print("text",x_offset,y_offset)
[05:07:35] <turutk> i can't get time variables to print
[05:18:48] <[z_z]> say what? you want to print the time to your screen? Does that print function take printf like format string?
[05:19:52] <[z_z]> if it does not. you will need to write your own function to print the uint8_t as ascii text. you can just: var x = ...; print(x,...);
[05:20:17] <[z_z]> actually i think nongnu avrlib has sprintf.
[05:22:06] <turutk> void print2(char * krk)
[05:22:16] <turutk> this is the function
[05:22:56] <turutk> it works as print2("hello")
[05:23:18] <[z_z]> yea. so make a buffer char buf[appropriate_size]; sprintf(buf,"%d",timevar); print2(buf);
[05:27:18] <turutk> that works
[05:29:42] <turutk> i am trying to print six variables in Time[6] array
[05:29:52] <turutk> can i use the same buf?
[05:50:04] <creep> turutk<< good for what?
[05:50:31] <creep> line-out from 3.3v sounds ok with pwm and lowpass filter
[05:50:49] <creep> (even 5v)
[05:55:50] * RikusW used a PC serial port at 115200bps to play some sound :)
[05:56:38] <RikusW> just added a low pass filter. basically 11 = voltage down (-12V = 1) 00 = up 01 or 10 = stay the same
[05:57:21] <RikusW> SPI should work even better, its got no start/stop bits
[05:57:28] <Roklobsta> ewewew
[05:57:37] <Roklobsta> 8N1
[05:57:43] <Roklobsta> sounds offal
[05:58:09] <RikusW> the start+stop bit combined to form 10..
[05:58:24] <RikusW> it did sound a bit noisy
[05:58:35] <RikusW> but I could clearly hear the windows startup theme :)
[05:58:49] <creep> RikusW<< haha :)
[05:59:15] <[z_z]> turutk, yes. sprintf(buf,"%d %d %d %d ....",tim[0],time[1],...);
[05:59:46] <turutk> i put , in between %d thats why i failed
[05:59:48] <creep> RikusW<< SPI sound system? ;>
[05:59:55] <RikusW> I did that back in 2004 iirc
[06:00:07] <RikusW> could work ;)
[06:00:45] <[z_z]> turutk, or for(ii=0;ii<6;ii++) { sprintf(buff,"%d ",time[ii]); print2(buf); }
[06:01:12] <RikusW> I would think taking the bitrate to 1MHz will produce better quality sound
[06:01:26] <creep> RikusW<< sooooo, i add 2 LP filters, and make the opamp inverting with + on clock as ref
[06:02:46] <RikusW> I had to add voltage dividers too, since rs232 = +-12V
[06:03:01] <creep> ofc
[06:03:35] <creep> or if you want power, then add a buffer
[06:03:47] <creep> and connect 20-100W speakers
[06:04:01] <RikusW> I connected the divider directly to my PC speakers
[06:04:28] <creep> new serial poerts can do megabit?
[06:04:38] <RikusW> AVR SPI can
[06:04:40] <creep> i read something like this years ago
[06:04:51] <RikusW> UART too
[06:05:08] <RikusW> and PCs don't have serial ports anymore afaik :(
[06:05:36] <creep> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-serial-ports.htm
[06:05:46] <creep> A parallel port could support rates up to 100 kilobytes per second, while serial ports only supported 115 kilobits per second (kbps). Later, enhanced technology pushed serial speeds to 460 kbp
[06:05:47] <creep> hah
[06:05:56] <creep> why not?
[06:06:17] <creep> some new boards even have parallel port, but not with back connector
[06:07:51] <RikusW> My current MB only got on serial port.
[06:08:03] <RikusW> I had to use my U2S board to get another serial port
[06:08:15] <creep> yes, compatibility
[06:08:52] <RikusW> http://sites.google.com/site/megau2s/home
[06:11:40] <kdehl> .
[06:17:09] <Horologium> hmmm....totally useless idea of the day.....put a speaker on your USB bus, right off the D+ line....then figure out how to send data to a USB device in order to get various sounds out of the speaker.
[06:17:52] <kdehl> I think you should do it.
[06:33:26] <OndraSter__> lol
[06:36:52] <creep> Horologium<< usb is not a sound synthesizer :(
[06:37:06] <creep> it is some packet mode crap
[06:39:19] <inductiveload> there are usb sound cards
[06:39:26] <inductiveload> i bought one a few weeks ago for £2
[06:39:56] <inductiveload> but there were no DC blocking caps in the output, so my earphones got really hot
[06:40:12] <inductiveload> put them in and it works ok, but a bit crackly
[06:41:00] <kdehl> Seriously, that free trade agreement between the EU and the US needs to be realized soon. I'm sick of having to pay customs when buying crap on ebay.
[06:56:01] <beaky> hello
[06:56:02] <tobbor> hi beaky.
[06:56:16] <beaky> should my atmega16 programs return 0?
[06:56:24] <beaky> or should I declare them as void main(void) /
[06:57:51] <RikusW> main never returns on AVR....
[06:58:02] <beaky> ah
[06:58:24] <RikusW> iirc if it does the AVR resets
[07:05:02] <Malinuss> RikusW, well of course it resets - the program ends ;P
[07:06:49] <Malinuss> beaky, and no, good practice would be to have int main(void)
[07:07:28] <[z_z]> i think avr-gcc even complains if you void main. (maybe with -Wall)
[07:07:39] <Malinuss> ^
[07:08:05] <[z_z]> even if you use struct foo main()... as long as you never return you'l be fine.
[07:08:22] <beaky> yeah avr-gcc complains if I don't put int main(void) (even without returning)
[07:08:34] <beaky> wonder why it doesn't complai that main never returns :D
[07:08:39] <beaky> thanks :D
[07:08:47] <Malinuss> beaky, this is what my mains usually look like: int main(void){ setup(); for(;;)loop(); }
[07:09:11] <[z_z]> not returning is an error you have to turn on somehow i think. -Wnoreturn or similar
[07:09:47] <Malinuss> just put a return 1 at the end (because it would in theory be an error)
[07:11:16] <beaky> Malinuss: neat I have lots of logic in main atm :( when I write more complex programs I will start using auxiliary functions rather than having a monolithing main :D
[07:11:35] <beaky> but my textbook uses void main :(
[07:54:29] <dsadw> is TIMSK1 &= (0<<OCIE1A) equal to TIMSK1 &= ~(1<<OCIE1A)
[08:05:47] <Steffanx> bye dsadw :(
[08:07:22] <yunta> damn, he left, I lost a chance to answer a simple question and gain respect points.....
[08:07:39] <Malinuss> lol yunta
[08:07:59] <Malinuss> the question was kinda like is 4=5?
[08:08:02] <Steffanx> Maybe i should repeat the question, so you can answer it yunta ?
[08:08:12] <Malinuss> lol
[08:08:17] <yunta> nah ,that would be cheating
[08:08:45] <yunta> I'll just wait for another question like that
[08:35:29] <tzanger> respect points?
[08:40:21] <Steffanx> Yes tzanger
[09:01:28] <fantastic> hey, is anyone around who can help me with an ISR problem in AVR?
[09:04:35] <fantastic> http://pastebin.com/wGyiHmuL
[09:04:44] <fantastic> here is my question, if anyone could help I would be grateful.
[09:27:46] <Malinuss> "here is my question"... question never comes, lol
[09:28:21] <Steffanx> Malinuss clicked on the link?
[09:28:51] <Malinuss> I can't open pastebin, guess I have malware or something, only site I can't open
[09:29:04] <Steffanx> lol
[09:29:25] <Malinuss> sometimes I use proxy when I really want to open a pastebin link....
[09:30:20] <yunta> it may be time to install real os....
[09:31:10] <swart> I noticed an AVR example the other day that used C++ iostreams to write console messages - will those be written to the USB serial port given the right bootloader and usb interface?
[09:31:51] <swart> really struggling with the whole debugging experience with these things :)
[09:36:20] <swart> I guess arduino does it so my question is probably answered already...
[09:44:32] <kdehl> _finally_, I got my first setup working.
[09:44:46] * kdehl managed to turn on a LED
[09:48:54] <kdehl> ...and now it blinks.
[09:49:03] <kdehl> Oh the joy.
[10:21:36] <Malinuss> swart, which uC do you have?
[10:21:47] <Malinuss> swart, what is you uC setup?
[12:15:19] <swart> Malinuss: I've got an atMega32u4 on a breakout board from adafruit
[12:16:24] <abcminiuser> GODDAM FAT
[12:16:31] <swart> I've managed to overwrite the bootloader with garbage and then got it working again by installing the correct one
[12:16:39] <Malinuss> swart, just use the LUFA "serial emulator", and then just use windows.h functions to write/read from the COM port
[12:17:00] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, ?
[12:17:11] <swart> thanks. I'm on a Mac but I think i can translate that :)
[12:17:18] <abcminiuser> Trying to make my goddam virtual FAT filesystem work
[12:17:25] <abcminiuser> And it doesn't
[12:18:19] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, windows? you can actually access hardware directly in windows and write your own file system ;D
[12:18:37] <Malinuss> swart, yeah just google how to read/write to serial with mac.. I have no idea ;P
[12:18:54] <swart> the serial emulator is the trick
[12:19:25] <Malinuss> swart, first install the LUFA emulator on the uC, then test it by using whatever com listening program, and send data to it
[12:19:30] <swart> hopefully all I need is a terminal emulator
[12:20:59] <swart> Malinuss: that sounds good. I've already installed the LUFA bootloader but it doesn't show up as a serial device. I think I might have a bad USB cable
[12:20:59] <RikusW> hi mr black ;) (in Afrikaans swart means black)
[12:21:05] <swart> hehe
[12:21:40] <RikusW> Steffanx: I guess its the same for Dutch ?
[12:21:47] <abcminiuser> Svart = black in Norsk
[12:21:51] <Malinuss> swart, the boolader isn't enough, you need to have the program running that makes the usb peripheral simulate a COM port
[12:21:52] <swart> RikusW: the only Afrikaans word I know is braai
[12:22:04] <Malinuss> swart, find it under examples
[12:22:08] <RikusW> braai == barbecue :)
[12:22:10] <swart> Malinuss: thanks vm
[12:22:16] <Malinuss> np
[12:22:16] <swart> RikusW: yes it's a good one to know :)
[12:23:11] <RikusW> water is the same word, just pronounced differently
[12:23:47] <RikusW> the a sound like in -> what
[12:23:52] <RikusW> almost
[12:24:13] <Steffanx> No RikusW
[12:24:31] <RikusW> Steffanx: got a better suggestion ?
[12:24:40] <Steffanx> You guys replaced all the Zs with and S :)
[12:24:45] <Steffanx> So it's "zwart" :)
[12:25:06] <RikusW> thats V1, V2 use S :-D
[12:26:15] <RikusW> abcminiuser: I'd not be surprised if I understand quite many Norsk words
[12:26:32] <Steffanx> Swedish perhaps even more RikusW
[12:26:53] <abcminiuser> FUCK FAT AND THE HORSE IT RODE IN ON
[12:27:20] <RikusW> well Afrikaans is a curious mix of languages, it even contains some asian words
[12:28:54] <swart> English would never allow that
[12:29:01] <Steffanx> dutch too, babi pangang :P
[12:34:19] <swart> how does LUFA compare to V-USB?
[12:34:45] <swart> I saw some v-usb projects last night that look interesting. are they basically the same thing?
[12:35:48] <RikusW> vusb emulates usb hw using fw
[12:35:57] <RikusW> LUFA needs a usb AVR
[12:37:24] <swart> ah thanks RikusW
[12:37:43] <swart> I guess having a usb avr simplifies my choice then
[12:37:49] <RikusW> yes
[12:38:04] <swart> will vusb run on something like an attiny?
[12:38:13] <RikusW> vusb eats about all mcu cycles and its only low speed 1.5Mbps
[12:38:26] <swart> that with 8Mhz?
[12:38:27] <RikusW> LUFA can use full speed 12MBps
[12:38:46] <RikusW> it might, at 12MHz
[12:43:30] <OndraSter__> hmm cheapest xmega without USB = 1.91€. Cheapest xmega with USB = 2.79€ (on mouser)
[12:43:30] <OndraSter__> is it worth porting v-usb to xmega? :P
[12:44:45] <Steffanx> no
[12:51:15] <Malinuss> lol I was sure all xmegas had usb
[12:53:40] <RikusW> actually they had not
[12:53:45] <RikusW> its a recent addition
[12:54:05] <Malinuss> wow
[12:54:20] <Malinuss> just wow... make a "top-tier" uC, and not adding usb by default?
[13:02:49] <abcminiuser> For christ's sake, I swear this goddam FAT parition is perfect
[13:02:56] <abcminiuser> Anyone here versed in FAT16?
[13:05:09] <RikusW> I messed a little with fat but that was long ago
[13:08:30] <abcminiuser> It looks like it can't read the FAT parition or something
[13:08:35] <abcminiuser> DRIVING ME FUCKING CRAZU
[13:11:42] <RikusW> USB stick ?
[13:13:21] <abcminiuser> I'm making a virtual disj
[13:13:23] <abcminiuser> *disk
[13:13:37] <abcminiuser> So far I'm making it return a valid boot block in block 0
[13:13:46] <abcminiuser> And blocks 1 and 2 should be a FAT table
[13:14:03] <abcminiuser> Block 3 is a directory table with one entry, a 2049 byte file
[13:14:07] <abcminiuser> And after that is the file data
[13:14:22] <abcminiuser> The parition is recognised, the file shows up with the correct size and whatnot
[13:14:24] <r00t^home> 2049?
[13:14:34] <abcminiuser> One more than the cluster size
[13:14:45] <RikusW> then there is the fun part of getting the archaic cylinders/heads/sectors right...
[13:15:06] <abcminiuser> If I use a single cluster size it doesn't break, since it doesn't need to read the FAT
[13:15:33] <r00t^home> so it's a test of that, beyond the simple case, ok
[13:15:36] <RikusW> abcminiuser: sounds like the last fat entry is not terminated, can't remember the value used...
[13:16:34] <r00t^home> abcminiuser: and you are testing this... on an usb enabled avr connected to a windows system?
[13:16:40] <abcminiuser> FFFF
[13:16:53] <abcminiuser> Windows and Linux
[13:16:58] <abcminiuser> But yes
[13:17:28] <r00t^home> can't you use a debug-build of fsck.msdos or something to test it?
[13:17:30] <RikusW> FFFF sounds right
[13:17:36] <r00t^home> or some disk editor withj fat support
[13:17:46] <r00t^home> to give you a clear indication of what is wrong
[13:22:07] <RikusW> hmm the SIM900 uses
http://www.rfmd.com/CS/Documents/7161DS.pdf
[13:22:15] <RikusW> and PNX4851
[13:22:52] <RikusW> and a ST M36W0R60S 64MB flash chip
[13:44:21] <RikusW> http://www.maxim4u.com/download.php?id=1759020&pdfid=D5EEFC5C21F50496C10C75984F63C514&file=0381\m36w0r6050u4zsf_3774818.pdf
[13:44:32] <RikusW> found the flash + ram IC ds :)
[13:44:47] <RikusW> 8MB + 4MB ram
[13:45:18] <RikusW> can't seem to find the PNX4851 ds though :|
[14:13:43] <RikusW> seems its time to stop complaining about soldering BGA... -> M69KM048AA 32 Mbit (2 Mb x16), 83MHz Clock Rate, 1.8V Supply, Multiplexed I/O, Bare Die, Burst PSRAM
[14:13:46] <RikusW> BARE DIE....
[14:14:02] <RikusW> You'll die trying to connect that :-P
[14:17:27] <OndraSter__> :P
[14:17:27] <OndraSter__> naked die
[14:17:27] <OndraSter__> barely legal!
[14:20:33] <RikusW> electronics porn :-D
[14:20:54] <RikusW> http://www.ic-on-line.cn found the ds here
[14:38:33] <abcminiuser> www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnaeImQ0TSg
[14:39:25] <kdehl> Do all USB keyboards use the same protocol and standards? Would it be possible to write a generic USB keyboard driver, in only software so that you could plug in any USB keyboard to any AVR microcontroller?
[14:39:35] <abcminiuser> kdehl, yes and yes
[14:39:44] <Roklobsta> grrr, i got me a rzraven kit yesterday and studio 6 doesn't have a wireless studio.
[14:39:59] <kdehl> abcminiuser: Excellent. Is it a hard thing to do?
[14:40:15] <abcminiuser> Not if you use LUFA :P
[14:40:28] <abcminiuser> It's called the Human Interface Device (HID) protocol
[14:40:45] <kdehl> Rings familiar...
[14:40:54] * kdehl is looking at LUFA right now
[14:41:13] <Roklobsta> for pushing buttons, activating solenoid for USB Pez dispenser etc
[14:41:17] <abcminiuser> kdehl, the author of it's a bit of a jerk, but it works for me
[14:41:26] <kdehl> Seems like it's more or less done already...?
[14:41:34] <abcminiuser> Ja
[14:41:51] <Roklobsta> abc: you familiar with rf chips?
[14:42:04] <abcminiuser> Christ no, I tried once and never again
[14:42:48] <Roklobsta> what was so discouraging?
[14:42:59] <abcminiuser> The raven wireless stack
[14:43:12] <Toneloc> abcminiuser- I have seen some of the RF microcontrollers from TI- if you looked at them sideways they just heeled over and died instantly
[14:43:56] <abcminiuser> I think ours are a bit better
[14:43:57] <Toneloc> the amount of casualities in those chips, RF2500 was staggering, some even arrived from TI dead.
[14:44:04] <abcminiuser> But the software when I first tried it was awful
[14:44:21] <Roklobsta> abc: the bitcloud zigbee stack?
[14:45:04] <Roklobsta> i did think the raven lcd had a fault until a little red led shone in it.
[14:45:40] <RikusW> abcminiuser: I see you got a new ISP ? :)
[14:45:42] <Roklobsta> abc: do you think the rf hardware is dodgy or just the available libraries?
[14:45:47] <abcminiuser> RikusW, new apartment :P
[14:45:55] <abcminiuser> Wait, you stalking me? :P
[14:46:05] <abcminiuser> Roklobsta, can't remember, many years ago
[14:46:11] <abcminiuser> Roklobsta, hardware is fine
[14:46:15] <RikusW> yep :)
[14:46:25] <abcminiuser> The old libraries were wonky but are probably much better now
[14:46:37] <abcminiuser> I sure hope they are, I might be making a training with them soon
[14:46:39] <RikusW> I noticed a lack of entry/exit events...
[14:46:53] <abcminiuser> This ISP is stable :P
[14:46:58] <Roklobsta> hrm, i read the bitcloud stack is borked.
[14:47:05] <abcminiuser> Wifi that works, 1MB/s download
[14:47:22] <Roklobsta> one company is waiting for fixes so that their 500 devices can be used properly
[14:47:50] <Roklobsta> heh yes but not off button cells
[14:48:14] <kdehl> abcminiuser: Silly question, perhaps, but writing a USB keyboard driver from scratch seems like a pretty good exercise to get to know USB better. Or is it a lot to get to know before you have anything useful?
[14:48:38] <kdehl> abcminiuser: And yes, those Norwegians...
[14:48:39] <abcminiuser> There's quite a lot to learn :P
[14:48:52] <abcminiuser> Start with a USB stack and implement HID yourself
[14:49:00] <abcminiuser> Then implement USB underneath yourself after
[14:49:12] <abcminiuser> Be warned, I've heard it can be a pain
[14:49:18] <kdehl> Ah, right, there are several layers of protocols.
[14:49:26] <OndraSter__> kdehl, let me suggest you
[14:49:28] <abcminiuser> Brazillions of them
[14:49:30] <OndraSter__> unless you have got a girlfriend with a lot of hair
[14:50:04] <OndraSter__> do NOT write USB
[14:50:04] <OndraSter__> stack
[14:50:04] <OndraSter__> and my IRC is superlagging today, too
[14:50:05] <OndraSter__> (messages get rxed every 1 minute.. :(
[14:50:16] <abcminiuser> OndraSter__, ping
[14:50:17] <kdehl> Heh. Okay. Gotcha.
[14:50:23] <abcminiuser> ...
[14:50:50] <RikusW> kdehl: even getting HID descriptors right can be painfull...
[14:50:58] <OndraSter__> abcminiuser, :P
[14:51:02] <kdehl> Man, you Trondheim guys have the most distinctive dialect of Norway, as far as I've heard.
[14:51:10] <kdehl> RikusW: Okay.
[14:51:15] <kdehl> Well, screw it then. :)
[14:51:15] <OndraSter__> even getting the USB to work at all is VERY painful
[14:51:31] <abcminiuser> kdehl, den mennesker snakker om jibberish har.
[14:51:34] <RikusW> even when using JTAG...
[14:51:59] <OndraSter__> see how I ommited "can be"?
[14:51:59] <OndraSter__> ;)
[14:51:59] <OndraSter__> yeah.
[14:52:17] <kdehl> OndraSter__: Hehe. Gotcha!
[14:52:21] <OndraSter__> you can not use JTAG :)
[14:52:55] <OndraSter__> timing..
[14:52:55] <OndraSter__> you can use only serial console to dump debug datato
[14:52:55] <OndraSter__> data to*
[14:52:57] <RikusW> kdehl: I converter the CDC stack from Atmel to asm, and even that took a while to get right
[14:53:08] <kdehl> abcminiuser: Indeed! I believe there are some nation-wide tax authorities in Trondheim, with whom I've had a lot of contact. Though I barely understood half of what they said.
[14:53:23] <kdehl> RikusW: Okay, no USB.
[14:53:25] <kdehl> I get it. :)
[14:53:30] <abcminiuser> kdehl, hvor er du fra?
[14:53:32] <OndraSter__> been there, done that
[14:53:33] <OndraSter__> I wrote USB CDC stack from scratch
[14:53:33] <OndraSter__> for xmega
[14:53:33] <RikusW> I stripped until it failed, put back and stripped other stuff..
[14:53:36] <OndraSter__> it is +- working, but fails to enumerate on some hubs - no idea why
[14:53:39] <kdehl> abcminiuser: Sverige.
[14:53:51] <abcminiuser> Ah, not so far away then :P
[14:53:55] <kdehl> abcminiuser: Örebro ursprungligen, bor i Linköping nu.
[14:53:58] <kdehl> No, not really.
[14:54:04] <kdehl> I worked in Oslo for a year or so.
[14:54:05] <abcminiuser> Men jeg er ikke fra Norge
[14:54:08] <RikusW> abcminiuser: seems you're learning Norsk ?
[14:54:12] <Roklobsta> tondheim accents are worse when spoken with an overlaying Frankston accent.
[14:54:19] <abcminiuser> Jeg er Australsk
[14:54:24] <kdehl> abcminiuser: Ah. Cool.
[14:54:27] <OndraSter__> the hub keeps sending me (or I receive only) RESET conditions
[14:54:35] <abcminiuser> RikusW, en litt, men ikke so mye
[14:54:43] <kdehl> abcminiuser: Tell me, why in the world would you move from Australia to Norway? ;)
[14:54:51] <Steffanx> He likes cold weather
[14:55:00] <Roklobsta> if you lived in Frankston you'd know why
[14:55:05] <abcminiuser> Insanity?
[14:55:18] <abcminiuser> Also lots of zeros in the paycheck
[14:55:24] <abcminiuser> Mostly leading zeros...
[14:55:24] <kdehl> Ah. Heh.
[14:55:31] <kdehl> Oh.
[14:55:33] <kdehl> Well.
[14:55:34] <kdehl> Still.
[14:55:37] <kdehl> Zeroes.
[14:55:58] <abcminiuser> kdehl, www.fourwalledcubicle.com
[14:55:58] <kdehl> Thought salaries were pretty decent in Australia though.
[14:56:07] <abcminiuser> Ja, men Atmel.
[14:56:17] <kdehl> I found it already. :)
[14:56:23] <Roklobsta> anyone used contiki-os?
[14:56:31] <Roklobsta> #contiki-os is dead alas
[14:57:28] <OndraSter__> I suppose I could start talking in czech - so I could feel less weird when I can not understand the others :)
[14:57:30] <OndraSter__> !time
[14:57:30] <tobbor> My watch says its 12:45PM Fri Mar 08 2013
[14:57:31] <OndraSter__> !ping
[14:57:39] <kdehl> !bang
[14:58:04] <abcminiuser> Sorry OndraSter__ ;P
[14:58:43] <kdehl> abcminiuser: You work for Atmel in Norway?
[14:59:19] <abcminiuser> kdehl, depends, if I say yes will you start yelling?
[14:59:19] <OndraSter__> ;D
[14:59:50] <kdehl> Haha. Why would I?
[14:59:56] <kdehl> Are they disliked?
[15:00:04] <kdehl> Sorry, I'm a newbie in this area.
[15:00:12] <Steffanx> Not as disliked as pic users ( here ) :D
[15:00:12] <OndraSter__> kdehl, why else would he move
[15:00:12] <OndraSter__> well, to get rid of the spiders and other insects from australia...
[15:00:12] <OndraSter__> (would be the other reason)
[15:00:27] <OndraSter__> everybody loves atmel
[15:00:42] <Roklobsta> TI an Microchip don't
[15:00:43] <kdehl> I would love to try out some PIC.
[15:00:52] * kdehl waits for the kick-ban
[15:01:00] <RikusW> kdehl: abc is also the LUFA author
[15:01:08] <OndraSter__> :D
[15:01:13] <kdehl> RikusW: I know. :)
[15:01:22] <Toneloc> I never heard of anyone who hates ATMEl yet
[15:01:33] <Toneloc> I can't say the same for TI,PIC and ARm
[15:01:46] <Toneloc> *ATMEL
[15:01:51] <RikusW> whats wrong with ARM ?
[15:01:57] <abcminiuser> Toneloc, you've never been on Atmel support then
[15:02:01] <kdehl> Hm. I do have an old PS/2 keyboard lying around, I guess that should be easier to work with, huh?
[15:02:12] <OndraSter__> kdehl, we have been using some pic24 (or was it pic16?) at school
[15:02:12] <OndraSter__> with old mplab 8
[15:02:20] <OndraSter__> being used to atmel's datasheets and AS6 makes me want to murder some town
[15:02:30] <RikusW> kdehl: ps2 is much simpler than usb
[15:02:42] <Toneloc> I'm just saying, I never heard of anyone who hated them, but for the others I have
[15:02:44] <Roklobsta> as6 = buy an ssd.
[15:02:53] <MrMobius> Who hates TI?
[15:02:58] <kdehl> RikusW: That's good.
[15:03:09] <OndraSter__> for using that POS PIC datasheet with MPLAB 8
[15:03:11] <kdehl> I'd like to have a keyboard input here... maybe I should have a look at that then.
[15:03:12] <Roklobsta> TI is OK, at least they are honest about their numerous hardware errata
[15:03:20] <OndraSter__> abcminiuser, do you have some position opened on tech support? :D
[15:03:33] <kdehl> http://avrprogrammers.com/example_avr_keyboard.php <=- Seems really simple to me!
[15:04:00] <OndraSter__> as6 worked fine even on HDD, but on SSD... o nom nom :D
[15:04:00] <OndraSter__> well whole system is fast.
[15:04:00] <OndraSter__> (plus the 24GB RAM thingy)
[15:04:06] <OndraSter__> yeah, few years ago I had 20GB HDD... lol
[15:04:10] <Toneloc> Roklobsta-lack of documentation/sample code was a pain for a while, but that is well sorted now
[15:04:14] <MrMobius> Roklobsta, interesting. which ones do you mean? switched pins for hardware SPI?
[15:06:52] <Roklobsta> many years ago i was programming the new 6201 DSP TI had when it was new. Lots of errata and things to work around.
[15:07:44] <Roklobsta> but TI did publish a comprehesive list of bugs in their hardware and compiler which stopped me going too crazy.
[15:08:26] <RikusW> now combine hw+fw+sw bugs...
[15:08:41] <RikusW> and then try to guess which is which...
[15:09:07] <Toneloc> I hit against many strange bugs working with TI processors and IAR omplier a few years back, not a nice experience
[15:09:21] <Toneloc> documented nowhere- just had to be learned the hard way
[15:09:26] <Toneloc> *complier
[15:09:41] <RikusW> compiler
[15:09:56] <Roklobsta> someimtes i just had to wait for the new compiler/assembler. it was back in the ealy days of VLIW.
[15:09:57] * RikusW hands Toneloc a pair of pliers ;)
[15:10:16] <Toneloc> *compiler - thank you RikusW
[15:10:55] <Roklobsta> actually how does avr-gcc fare compared to IAR for code gen. bugs?
[15:11:11] <RikusW> I've had some gcc bugs...
[15:11:12] <Toneloc> Roklobsta- I was a newbie to mcu's at the time, so made it extra stressful- you start to doubt yourself alot
[15:11:20] <Roklobsta> i had a discussion a while back with a guy in melb who swore against using avrgcc for his commercial avr work.
[15:11:50] <RikusW> Roklobsta: I used atmel's asm instead
[15:12:08] <Toneloc> Roklobsta-I have a C5055 DSP here that I never got a chance to play with yet
[15:12:26] <Roklobsta> i dunno, i was using a Dutch made 8051 compiler a while back and submitted various bug reports to them which they fixed.
[15:12:42] <kdehl> How about a VGA adapter? Are those very much simpler to deal with than USB?
[15:12:57] <kdehl> I've seen a few projects around.
[15:13:16] <RikusW> you want to build a PC ?
[15:13:17] <kdehl> That seem to be able to use VGA with software drivers only.
[15:14:01] <kdehl> Heh. Not really, but I'd like to get to know something a little deeper. I'm trying to figure out something to do...
[15:14:08] <RikusW> I'd use a dedicated dac..
[15:14:27] <kdehl> dac?
[15:14:28] <Roklobsta> i am waiting for Frabrice Bellard to comeout with a hack for AVR to do HDMI.
[15:14:38] <kdehl> Heh, that's cool.
[15:14:39] <Toneloc> Roklobsta-It would be interesting if when you used commerical compilers, that you could claim loss of time expenses for bugs that you encouter and subit to the manufacturer
[15:14:43] <RikusW> depending on resolution VGA needs a LOT of data
[15:14:51] <kdehl> Hm, okay.
[15:14:56] <RikusW> dac = digital to analog converter
[15:15:07] <kdehl> I was thinking some low-resolution text mode?
[15:15:09] <kdehl> Ah.
[15:15:28] <Toneloc> how about building a uzebox??/
[15:15:40] <Roklobsta> tone: perhaps. you'd spend a lot more on lawyers than any compensation you'd get back
[15:15:43] <Toneloc> my friend and I were talkinga bout building one a few hours ago
[15:15:48] <kdehl> Heh.
[15:15:54] <RikusW> kdehl: textmode is implemented in hardware
[15:16:04] <kdehl> RikusW: Aha.
[15:16:11] <RikusW> VGA is a stream of pixels
[15:16:16] <kdehl> Well, not as simple as I assumed then...
[15:16:52] <RikusW> your dotclock and h/vsync needs to be right too..
[15:16:59] <kdehl> Okay, how about this, using an old ISA VGA card, and make that output text? I've heard the ISA bus can be somewhat easly used with AVRs.
[15:17:11] <RikusW> good idea
[15:17:21] <RikusW> ISA is fairly simple
[15:17:28] <kdehl> Yeah, so I've heard.
[15:17:41] <Roklobsta> ISA bus?
[15:17:42] <kdehl> So that could be doable, I guess.
[15:17:44] <RikusW> I've seen projects to interface to networks cards like 8029
[15:17:55] <kdehl> I think I've seen that too somewhere.
[15:17:58] <Roklobsta> yeah it's just address and data bus and some latches
[15:18:14] <kdehl> Ah, cool.
[15:18:23] <kdehl> Seems like something even I could be able to do. :)
[15:18:24] <Roklobsta> ISA is very close to a traditional CPU addr/data bus
[15:18:25] <RikusW> and DMA..
[15:18:39] <Roklobsta> as you'd expect
[15:18:54] <RikusW> kdehl: just make sure the card works in a real PC first..
[15:19:05] * Roklobsta shudders at memories of ISA and VESA bus.
[15:19:05] <kdehl> RikusW: Hah. Good point, actually!
[15:19:19] <Roklobsta> already i am finding mobo's that only have PCI-e now
[15:19:24] <kdehl> Yeah, I remember those too.
[15:19:36] * RikusW have actually built a few 8bit ISA cards
[15:19:45] <kdehl> How much more complicated is the PCI bus compared to ISA?
[15:19:47] <RikusW> one to interface an 8255 to the bus
[15:19:55] <kdehl> RikusW: That's cool.
[15:20:00] <Roklobsta> i used to own a few MASSIVE 8 bit ISA WaveLAN cards.
[15:20:02] <RikusW> another to directly interface a flash chip
[15:20:03] <Toneloc> I have old ISA cards, 32 of thm if I remember correctly, all the exact same soundcard
[15:20:10] <Toneloc> and all discrete components!
[15:20:15] <RikusW> kdehl: don't even think about PCI...
[15:20:27] <RikusW> PCI is closed spec too..
[15:20:39] <kdehl> I have a favorite project of mine, that I will have to have a look at first though. Let's just say I got some tips from #nesdev on efnet on how to do things...
[15:20:50] <kdehl> RikusW: Ouch. Well, screw that, then.
[15:20:54] <Roklobsta> closed how? oh yeah, i rem, my company had to pay a lot of money for the PCI spec.
[15:21:05] <Toneloc> pulled one out of a computer witha mobo that said "Made in Ireland", then I knew it must be ancient - we haven't made stuff for years
[15:21:38] <Roklobsta> yeah guiness started tasting better once the PCB makers closed and stopped dumping their eflfuent into the liffey.
[15:22:05] <kdehl> Toneloc: DeLorean?
[15:22:11] <kdehl> But that was quite a while ago.
[15:22:21] <kdehl> And in Northern Ireland... oops. :)
[15:22:42] <Toneloc> kdehl- the only place you see one of those is in "Back to the Future"!
[15:22:54] <Toneloc> and technically, it was made in the UK
[15:23:02] <Toneloc> Northern Ireland, correct
[15:23:02] <Roklobsta> i saw a tshirt with a delorean crashing into the TARDIS last night.
[15:23:49] <kdehl> Toneloc: When I grow up, I will definitely get one of those. That's one of my goals in life.
[15:24:03] <Toneloc> Roklobsta- yeah, the liffey is cleaned up now - only shopping trolleys, human effluent and dead bodies make it in now.
[15:24:33] <Toneloc> kdehl-ah, I think they are big money as they are such a limited edition
[15:24:34] <kdehl> Heh. I have a (female(!)) friend who tattooed tardis, Star Trek, Star Wars and some comics on her back a few weeks back. I love her for being so nerdy.
[15:25:05] <kdehl> Toneloc: They are produced again, you know. Only in small quantities, but still.
[15:26:11] <Toneloc> oh, didn't know that
[15:26:48] <kdehl> http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/05/delorean-electric-surprises-in-new-york-will-cost-95-000-in-20/
[15:27:12] <kdehl> An electric DeLorean for $95 000.
[15:28:35] <kdehl> I'm just waiting for the Mr Fusion upgrade too.
[15:28:36] <Roklobsta> does the Mr Fusion work?
[15:28:41] <kdehl> Haha.
[15:29:46] <kdehl> I know thinkgeek used to sell flux capacitors though.
[15:31:16] <kdehl> iPhone connector! Bah! I'm going to have a real -82 version if I'm buying one.
[15:44:32] <tzanger> so... if I am understanding correctly the ATTINY processors (TINY13 and 25 specifically) can ONLY be programmed via SPI. PDI is *not* available. is that correct?
[15:45:35] <tzanger> hell TPI doesn't even seem to be available
[15:45:41] <RikusW> PDI is only for xmega
[15:45:53] <RikusW> TPI is only for t4 5 9 10 20 40
[15:46:08] <tzanger> RikusW: thanks, it wasn't obvious from what I was reading
[15:46:12] <Tom_itx> ISP is for all 8bit chips except the xmega and attiny4,5,9 and 10
[15:46:16] <tzanger> TPI is for the really little (6 pin) devices
[15:46:19] <RikusW> t13 and 25 use SPI and HVSP
[15:46:23] <Tom_itx> 20 40?
[15:46:35] <RikusW> yes 20 and 40 exist too
[15:46:42] <RikusW> afaik
[15:46:43] <Tom_itx> 6 pni?
[15:46:46] <Tom_itx> never seen one
[15:47:10] <Tom_itx> afik there are only 4
[15:47:28] <RikusW> t20 is 14 pin but use TPI
[15:47:54] <RikusW> t40 is 20 pin
[16:01:37] <kdehl> Hm. Are there any readily available VGA modules that one could use instead?
[16:14:18] * kdehl found AVGA
[16:14:20] <kdehl> Perfect!
[16:14:46] <Toneloc> kdehl-what is AVGA?
[16:15:55] <kdehl> http://avga.prometheus4.com/
[16:17:11] <swart> that's impressive
[16:18:39] <kdehl> Indeed.
[16:19:03] <kdehl> Shit, that's exactly what I want to do.
[16:19:21] <kdehl> The VGA output, that is, not a complete console.
[16:20:52] <Toneloc> Kdehl- is taht not RGB for a tv, not VGA ?
[16:20:55] <swart> no wiring diagrams of any type?
[16:21:20] <swart> yeah NTSC and PAL not VGA
[16:21:57] <Toneloc> thats what I thought
[16:22:03] <swart> no activity on the forums either
[16:22:18] <Toneloc> its similar to what a Uzebox does
[16:22:32] <Toneloc> but its hadware is a bit more
[16:22:36] <Toneloc> *harware
[16:22:42] <Toneloc> *hardware
[16:23:06] <kdehl> Oh crap.
[16:23:12] <Toneloc> I like that AVGA because it doesn't rely upon odd valued crystals and such
[16:23:22] <kdehl> They mention VGA every here and there, so I thought it was what they used.
[16:23:32] <kdehl> Oh well.
[16:23:56] <Toneloc> kdehl- I know, strangely it has nothing to do with VGA though.
[16:24:11] <kdehl> Yeah.
[16:24:16] <kdehl> I guess the ISA VGA idea is the easiest way to go...
[16:24:53] <Toneloc> today I bought a camera module from ebay
[16:25:16] <Toneloc> hoping to interface it to an mcu when i get it
[16:34:45] <kdehl> I think I'm going to cheat and buy one of these:
[16:34:46] <kdehl> https://www.olimex.com/Products/Modules/Video/MOD-VGA/
[16:35:43] <creep> h
[16:35:47] <creep> sup?
[16:36:41] <OndraSter__> the sky!
[16:38:03] <kdehl> God!
[16:38:08] <kdehl> No... not God.
[16:40:56] <creep> Godlike!
[16:41:22] <creep> Dominating!
[16:46:07] <tzanger> http://www.mixdown.ca/dump/pump.pdf
[16:46:13] <tzanger> I think I'm done now
[16:46:35] <tzanger> TINY13, ISP header, the onlyt hing I have to test is to see if I can follow the zero crossings and still drive the LED
[17:13:11] <OndraSter__> creep, M M M M M MONSTER KILL
[17:15:18] <creep> yeah
[17:16:01] <creep> i should really get some precision opamps ;/
[17:16:23] <creep> 3-9mV ofset is much when using 100mV/270C
[17:17:24] <creep> offset voltage ususally match in a single package quad opamp block rigth?
[17:17:44] <creep> like 3mV+-0.1mV ?
[17:36:46] <[z_z]> crap man. gps looses satelite signal for a short time, and I'm driving 15km on dirt roads in the depths of the jungle.
[17:37:44] <kdehl> But you do have an internet connection?
[17:39:01] <Toneloc> [z_z]- what jungle?
[17:39:10] <Toneloc> and why you on irc while driving?
[17:39:23] <Toneloc> and also, i hope you have a safe journey
[17:41:47] <[z_z]> nope. i just got back.
[17:42:15] <[z_z]> out in the norht east of brazil.
[17:42:40] <creep> there are cannibals there
[17:43:00] <[z_z]> dont worry the capitalists are worse
[17:44:46] <kdehl> Haha.
[17:44:52] <kdehl> You're from Brazil?
[17:47:47] <[z_z]> so i come up to this clearing along side a beach. Its pitch black and i turn of the care, get out and talk with some locals. "how i get outa here?"... "yonder theres a gas station, just turn left."... turns out that gas station is 5k in the opposite direction. and when i get there, its out of service, theres no one, and the road DOES NOT FORK!
[17:48:58] <[z_z]> kdehl, honestly i don't know where i'm from anymore. I think my pasport says I'm a germ.
[17:50:49] <Toneloc> [z_z]wow, that sounds like some adventure, i heard Brazil is a dangerous place
[17:50:56] <Toneloc> but it looks exciting
[17:52:32] <kdehl> [z_z]: Heh. Like those Third Culture kids.
[17:54:38] <[z_z]> Brazil can be creepy. Don't wear socks in your flip-flops its a clear sign your a foreigner. Don't wash your car, and keep a dent in the side as camouflage... youl be fine.
[17:55:07] <Horologium> wearing socks and sandals or flipflops is a sure sign that you are fashioned challenged.
[17:56:24] <[z_z]> heh.
[17:56:37] <creep> offset voltages of different operational amplifiers in a single package quad opamp block usually match rigth? like 3mV+-0.1mV
[18:00:41] <Toneloc> <[z_z]>I know I would prefer the socks on also, but yeah that would be a giveaway, is it because cars get dirty so quick with the dust or is it that water is so precious that people don't wash cars? Or is it a case people just don't care?
[18:06:29] <[z_z]> Brazilians wash there cars twice a week. Their cars are like their children. some have a new car but skimp on food to come up with the money for finance. I don't wash my car because its a waste of time (teh dust), and makes me look rich. something i want to be, but don't want to show.
[19:03:04] <creep> yey i made a test setup, LM358P, green led, 2k2 to +12V, 2 opamps in voltage follower mode, LED V_BR: 1.905V outputs: 1.906V 1.906V :)
[19:11:48] <Toneloc> <[z_z]> I understand now, I especially understand why you don't wash the car- someone who finally thinks the same way as me. I have a relation who is married to a guy with an oil company- every time the get another care, they transfer the old number plate over so that people won't know its true age and think that they are making lots of money
[19:12:00] <Toneloc> I can see their logic
[19:18:23] <tzanger> http://www.mixdown.ca/dump/pump.png and there's the layout
[19:36:27] <stefanct> hm...
https://github.com/vancegroup-mirrors/avr-libc/blob/bea71af3e63b6125aa085ab36b6c1ba44a488ef7/avr-libc/include/inttypes.h#L157
[19:36:37] <stefanct> how to print 64 bit variables then?
[19:37:55] <[z_z]> if printf can't do it. you must do it yourself
[19:38:42] <stefanct> that was obviously not what i wanted to hear hehe
[19:40:45] <swart> why do you want to print 64-bit variables?
[19:40:56] <swart> is there a 64-bit addressing mode I haven't heard of yet? :)
[19:41:20] <Grievre> Which ISP programmer should I buy
[19:41:46] <swart> I bought the one from adafruit. it works
[19:41:54] <swart> I think it's cheaper than the atmel one
[19:41:58] <[z_z]> I use usbprog. avr8s and ISP works fairly well.
[19:42:02] <stefanct> swart: you do print addresses only? :)
[19:42:15] <swart> that and my bank account balance :)
[19:42:20] <stefanct> swart: i am using 64 bit timestamps...
[19:42:22] <swart> no need for 64-bits there yet
[19:42:24] <swart> ah
[19:42:30] <swart> just curious really
[19:43:50] <[z_z]> stefanct, if your ok with hex. you could uint64_t x; printf("%x%x%x%x",((char *)&x)[0],((char *)&x)[1], ....); maybe? beware of byte order.
[19:45:19] <stefanct> it's a nuisance but yes, that's probably what i'll do
[19:45:29] <stefanct> thanks and nn
[20:03:55] <blocky2> is PWM the best way to control LED brightness?
[20:06:42] <Grievre> generally the most efficient
[20:06:48] <Grievre> and cheapest
[20:07:15] <Grievre> variable constant-current device is the other option, and those are neither cheap nor efficient
[20:08:36] <tzanger> Grievre: Tom_itx has one for sale
[20:08:48] <blocky2> well right now i've got a global variable being incremented and modulo in an ISR and if x % 100 > 50 then LED on :P
[20:09:06] <tzanger> efficiency really isn't something you need to worry about in a prototype programmer
[20:09:12] <Grievre> blocky: er, what chip is this?
[20:09:17] <blocky2> attiny2313
[20:09:39] <blocky2> where 50 is some brightness between 1 and 100 lol
[20:10:07] <Grievre> um
[20:10:12] <Grievre> the ATTiny2313 has hardware PWM...
[20:10:37] <blocky2> I know, I just don't know how to use it yet
[20:10:59] <swart> it's possibly even easier than what you did :)
[20:11:24] <Grievre> blocky2: is this a timer ISR?
[20:11:30] <blocky2> Grievre yeah
[20:12:08] <Grievre> for which timer
[20:12:23] <blocky2> I'll paste the code if you promise not to judge me
http://pastebin.com/y3P4TpB0
[20:12:33] <blocky2> timer0?
[20:29:02] <creep> interesting stuff?
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/log101.pdf logarithmic ratio amplifier
[20:29:27] <Grievre> blocky2: eep, sorry, let me check it out
[20:32:48] <blocky2> no hurry :)
[20:38:29] <Grievre> blocky2: So basically you set the timer to "fast pwm mode" by setting the bottom two bits of TCCR0A
[20:38:42] <Grievre> get rid of your interrupt handlers and such
[20:39:04] <Grievre> So then the timer just continuously counts up until it overflows at 0xFF
[20:39:38] <Grievre> and so what you do is you set OCR0A to a value
[20:41:14] <Grievre> oh you also need to set the COM0A1 bit in TCCR0A, to enable PWM output
[20:41:52] <Grievre> so what you do is you the nset OCR0A to a value, and pin... B2? (whichever is listed as OC0A) will then be on whenever the timer is less than that value
[20:41:56] <Grievre> and off when it's greater than that value
[20:42:52] <blocky2> what's the timer resolution? 16 bit?
[20:43:48] <Grievre> er, no 8 bit
[20:44:18] <blocky2> ok thanks very much, I'm going to give it a shot now
[23:34:09] <Vutral> bla
[23:34:13] <Vutral> which avr got rtc ?
[23:37:30] <Casper> almost all
[23:48:06] <RifRaf> since when casper?
[23:48:16] <Casper> since always?
[23:48:23] <Casper> that they claim
[23:48:37] <Casper> basically it mean it have the watch crystal input
[23:48:42] <RifRaf> so it can store date and time?
[23:49:16] <Casper> you actually have to do it in software :D
[23:49:26] <Casper> yeah, "rtc"
[23:50:10] <RifRaf> i can keep track of the time since turning it on only
[23:50:31] <Casper> yeah, that's atmel "rtc"
[23:50:48] <Casper> probably mean to be set with the ultra low power saving mode
