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[00:34:47] <rue_house> anyone know tricks about wiring when connecting a dragon to an avr via isp?
[01:07:16] <Grievre> Is there any way to coax the AVR's SPI receiver into working correctly without the SS line?
[01:22:13] <jadew> Grievre, how would it know when to receive then?
[01:22:36] * Grievre shrugs
[01:23:13] <jadew> I suppose it could work if you'd pull clock line, so there wouldn't be any noise in there and keep SS low
[01:23:22] <jadew> but I wouldn't do it
[01:23:56] <jadew> not related:
http://dumb.ro/files/razed/razed5.png I'm back on track with my editor :D
[06:06:02] <OndraSter_> bloody school
[06:07:35] <specing> OndraSter_: Who did you kill?
[06:08:25] <OndraSter_> nobody yet
[06:08:32] <OndraSter_> but I will murder both math teachers
[06:08:43] <specing> Why?
[06:08:49] <specing> Math is cool mmkay?
[06:08:55] <OndraSter_> no it is not
[06:08:56] <OndraSter_> well
[06:08:58] <OndraSter_> it is
[06:08:59] <OndraSter_> but not in school
[06:09:07] <OndraSter_> 70 definitions you have to know..
[06:09:13] <OndraSter_> in the first semester
[06:09:13] <specing> And?
[06:09:15] <OndraSter_> another 10000 in the second
[06:09:22] <OndraSter_> I prefer actually counting
[06:09:27] <OndraSter_> and using numbers
[06:09:28] <specing> Dude, I'm studying math
[06:09:31] <OndraSter_> heh
[06:09:33] <specing> I love this shit!
[06:10:31] <specing> So what is the definition you don't get?
[06:10:41] <OndraSter_> it is not that I would not get them
[06:10:45] <OndraSter_> it is that I do not remmeber them
[06:10:56] <specing> lol
[06:11:07] <OndraSter_> 70 definitions, you need to know *who* made it up so when they ask you for d'SomeFrenchie you know what to write .
[06:11:18] <Steffanx> "<OndraSter_> but I will murder both math teachers" Nowadays it's not a good idea to say stuff like that out loud :P
[06:11:44] <Horologium> Steffanx, it's ok if he can type without talking then?
[06:12:14] <Steffanx> You expect a reply on that or what?
[06:12:52] <OndraSter_> you know those "Third reich" parody videos on youtube? Well there is one now ... with this. "He wants them to learn so many definitions what he could wallpaper whole library with the papers!"
[06:13:47] <Steffanx> Not when he uses characters of 0.1pt
[06:14:10] <specing> OndraSter_: l'hospital?
[06:14:56] <OndraSter_> lol l'hospital is simple
[06:15:11] <specing> Indeed it is
[06:16:54] <OndraSter_> Connection between Riemann's integral and primitive function
[06:17:01] <OndraSter_> Lagrange's sentence
[06:20:15] <OndraSter_> the moment when there are no numbers in math the math gets awful
[06:20:38] <yunta> I'd say it's the opposite way around :)
[06:20:53] <OndraSter_> no
[06:20:56] <OndraSter_> numbers > letters
[06:20:59] <OndraSter_> in math
[06:21:34] <specing> numbers @ math is a thing for primary and secondary schools
[06:22:05] <OndraSter_> and for real work
[06:22:28] <specing> No, for real work there are computers
[06:33:52] <Tom_itx> slide rules
[06:34:22] <Tom_itx> everyone should be required to use one
[06:34:39] <Tom_itx> to appreciate how far we've come
[06:35:24] <OndraSter_> slide rules?
[06:35:29] <OndraSter_> ohh I know what you mean
[06:35:44] <Tom_itx> yeah
[06:35:47] <Tom_itx> it's what got us to space
[06:38:47] <yunta> OndraSter_: when numbers vanish, only concepts and ideas stay. and that's cool, ideas.
[06:40:15] <OndraSter_> NUMBERS MASON
[06:40:17] <OndraSter_> WHAT DO THEY MEAN
[06:40:33] <Horologium> Tom_itx, I have mine..and know how to use it.
[06:41:08] <OndraSter_> it is not like you need one - for adding x to y you don't need it
[06:42:21] <Horologium> multiplication, division, and logs
[06:42:36] <OndraSter_> x*y... x/y... ln(x)... still no numbers
[06:43:07] <Horologium> a slipstick is for engineers, not mathemeticians.
[06:44:55] <Horologium> scientists figure out why, engineers figure out how.
[06:45:06] <OndraSter_> and I apply it in real life!
[06:46:16] <Horologium> so, ya don't need no steenkin math.
[09:12:41] <rue_house> jadew, whats your editor written in?
[09:18:37] <RikusW> lisp ? :-P
[09:18:39] * RikusW runs
[09:18:52] <specing> lol
[09:40:20] <Grievre> Question about how the UART behaves: do you have to pull the received byte out of the data register in between bytes, or does it give you one bytes' worth of leeway?
[09:42:00] <yunta> you can be reading one byte while the new one is being received iirc
[09:42:31] <yunta> it may be lie though..
[09:43:40] <Grievre> k
[09:43:54] <vanquish> Grievre: the uart is double buffered
[09:44:09] <Grievre> sweet thanks
[09:44:14] <Grievre> what about SPI? is that double-buffered too?
[09:44:32] <vanquish> actually
[09:44:34] <vanquish> umm..
[09:44:40] * vanquish pulls out datasheet
[09:45:08] <vanquish> Grievre: spi will be the same as uart
[09:45:11] <vanquish> but let me verify
[09:45:56] <Grievre> TWI, however, does /not/ appear to be double-buffered
[09:46:14] <Grievre> it stretches the clock while you handle the received byte
[09:46:26] <vanquish> The Receiver starts data reception when it detects a valid start bit. Each bit that follows the start
[09:46:29] <vanquish> bit will be sampled at the baud rate or XCKn clock, and shifted into the Receive Shift Register
[09:46:33] <vanquish> until the first stop bit of a frame is received. A second stop bit will be ignored by the Receiver.
[09:46:36] <vanquish> When the first stop bit is received, that is, a complete serial frame is present in the Receive Shift
[09:46:39] <vanquish> Register, the contents of the Shift Register will be moved into the receive buffer. The receive
[09:46:42] <vanquish> buffer can then be read by reading the UDRn I/O location.
[09:46:52] <vanquish> so yeah
[09:46:55] <vanquish> should be same with spi
[09:47:01] <Grievre> cool
[09:47:12] <vanquish> same with sending too
[09:54:03] <Grievre> hmmm... for an avr acting as SPI slave, does the SS line have to come up and then down again between each byte?
[09:54:06] <Grievre> or can it just stay down?
[09:56:46] <vanquish> stay down
[09:57:03] <vanquish> raising it would actually screw it up i think
[09:57:34] <vanquish> iirc, it flushes the register and resets the 8 count, but someone else here should confirm that
[10:01:55] <vanquish> *sigh*
[10:02:09] <vanquish> I made it to 10:50am before the frustration with new guy starts
[10:02:27] <vanquish> I should say, I made it this long before talking to him....
[10:03:45] <vanquish> him: "hey there are two connectors on here, which one do we want to use?"
[10:03:54] <vanquish> (we went over this for at least 5 mins on friday)
[10:04:06] <vanquish> me: "I gave you the part number, right?"
[10:04:38] <vanquish> me: "one is a cheap one we had on hand with machine stamped pins, the other is a nice one we tried out"
[10:04:54] <vanquish> him: I can't read the part number...i cant tell which is cheap one"
[10:04:59] <vanquish> me: ...
[10:05:16] <vanquish> me: really?
[10:05:20] <vanquish> him: be right back
[10:05:24] <vanquish> me: ...
[10:06:33] * vanquish switches to classical pandora station, practices breathing
[10:07:27] <vanquish> zomg it continues
[10:07:34] <vanquish> him: okay i'm back
[10:07:52] <vanquish> me: why do you need to verify them
[10:08:35] <vanquish> him: I need to verify the current capacity of them
[10:08:39] <vanquish> me: pull up the datasheet
[10:08:47] <vanquish> him: I would need to know the part number to do that
[10:08:54] <vanquish> me: I gave you the part number on friday...
[10:09:50] <vanquish> urgh
[10:11:00] <Grievre> So SPI can achieve higher datarates than UART, almost definitely right?
[10:12:27] <specing> yes
[10:12:47] <vanquish> must...resit /me realizes his actually venting to the wrong channel...
[10:12:55] <vanquish> sorry all :-\
[10:24:08] * Casper ties a rope on the press drill, bring it close to vanquish and turn it on
[10:24:51] * vanquish deserves his punishment, takes it like a man
[10:25:21] * vanquish makes no mention of his armour made of scrap PCBs underneath his shirt
[10:27:04] * Casper shut it up, replace the rope by a wire, then turn it back on, then plug the assembly to a tv flyback
[10:28:51] <Casper> bbl
[10:31:40] * vanquish squeals in agony, remembers to use irssi only for good in teh future
[10:39:51] <Grievre> Man, that's irritating
[10:40:13] <Grievre> it'd be nice if the SPI receiver could run without the SS pin at all
[10:40:35] * Grievre is bodging something to receive SPI instead of I2C, and the SS pin was being used for something else
[11:37:44] <Malinuss> Grievre, yeah I remember something about the SS pin being needed when using SPI hardware... But you could always go software SPI?
[11:38:14] <Malinuss> Grievre, IIRC there were also a way around the need of SS pin in hardware, not sure though
[11:38:27] <Malinuss> need as in - you can use it freely while SPI is running
[12:31:50] <vanquish> Grievre: the SS pin is required to tell the slave device that the master is talking to it
[12:32:08] <vanquish> i.e., if you had two slaves on the bus, you would need two SS pins
[12:32:19] <vanquish> and toggle which one is held low when talking to resepective slave
[12:32:29] <vanquish> if you only have one slave, just tie the slaves SS pin low
[12:32:37] <vanquish> so it always thinks it is being addressed
[12:32:56] <vanquish> the SS pin on the avr when it's in output mode does nothing (iirc....)
[12:37:25] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser
[12:37:51] <Tom_itx> is there support in studio for the dragon etc for a 4414
[12:39:18] <Tom_itx> at90s4414
[12:39:34] <Tom_itx> or at90s2313
[12:43:11] <Tom_itx> http://www2.electronicproducts.com/LEDs_might_soon_be_used_to_deliver_Wi_Fi_act_as_display_and_illuminate_room_simultaneously-article-fajb_lifi_led_feb2013-html.aspx
[12:43:16] <Tom_itx> won't that be annoying
[13:17:57] <ferdna> anyone here getting strange behaviour with tablewidget?
[13:18:11] <ferdna> its not returning the right number of rows with ui->tableWidget->rowCount()
[13:18:17] <ferdna> wrong channel
[13:18:18] <ferdna> =S
[13:18:24] <Tom_itx> wtf is tablewidget?
[13:18:26] <Tom_itx> :)
[13:18:33] <Tom_itx> i bet arduino
[13:18:38] <ferdna> nop
[13:18:43] <ferdna> Qt C++
[13:21:06] * Casper throws ferdna in the snow outside
[13:21:48] <ferdna> =/
[13:21:55] <Casper> you're lucky, it's only -9C right now
[13:22:06] <ferdna> i dont understand *C
[13:22:13] <RikusW> no its 23C now ;)
[13:22:26] <Casper> 16F
[13:22:40] <RikusW> 73F
[13:22:59] <Casper> atleast it's hotter than 2 weeks ago
[13:23:06] <Casper> we went bellow -40 with the wind
[13:23:24] <ferdna> lol is it 16 or 73
[13:23:26] <ferdna> hahahha
[13:23:38] <RikusW> -40 C ?
[13:24:02] <RikusW> ferdna: I'm in South Africa, its summer here :)
[13:24:03] <Casper> -40C = -40F
[13:24:31] <ferdna> nbop
[13:24:34] <ferdna> *nop
[13:24:46] <OndraSter> nope Casper
[13:24:49] <OndraSter> or wait
[13:24:51] <ferdna> oh yeah
[13:25:01] <OndraSter> oh
[13:25:03] <OndraSter> it is that
[13:25:12] <OndraSter> I thought it was -10 for some unknown reason :)
[13:25:16] <Casper> :D
[13:25:17] <Casper> bbl
[13:25:20] <ferdna> fuck... -9C = 15.8F
[13:25:25] <ferdna> thats really cold...
[13:25:42] <OndraSter> <ferdna> Qt C++
[13:25:42] <Casper> ferdna: it's not bad
[13:25:42] <specing> I went swimming in -9C
[13:25:47] <OndraSter> I will be doing my semestral projectin that :(
[13:25:48] <OndraSter> bloody school
[13:25:51] <RikusW> C = (F-32) * 5 / 9
[13:26:05] <specing> OndraSter: ? What is wrong with that?
[13:26:11] <ferdna> specing, cant water freezes..
[13:26:17] <ferdna> OndraSter, what about it?
[13:26:20] <OndraSter> qt, specing
[13:26:20] <specing> ferdna: can if it moves
[13:26:22] <asteve> -45*F = -45*C
[13:26:23] <specing> ferdna: river
[13:26:25] <asteve> mind = blown
[13:26:39] <OndraSter> no
[13:26:42] <OndraSter> -45C = -49C
[13:26:43] <OndraSter> F
[13:26:49] <asteve> -44?
[13:26:55] <OndraSter> ..
[13:26:57] <OndraSter> use calculator
[13:26:58] <OndraSter> or google
[13:27:00] <OndraSter> or anything else
[13:27:21] <RikusW> F = C * 9 / 5 + 32
[13:27:25] <asteve> -40
[13:27:42] <ferdna> google this "-9C in F"
[13:27:44] <asteve> I was trying to remember what it was, off by 5 error
[13:27:45] <ferdna> no quotes
[13:27:55] <specing> screw fahrenheit
[13:28:03] <specing> use C or kelvin
[13:28:11] <OndraSter> preferably C
[13:28:15] <OndraSter> unless you are a scientists
[13:28:24] <ferdna> specing, i dont understand C
[13:28:28] <ferdna> only F
[13:28:42] <OndraSter> 0C = water freezes (supposedly), 100C = water boils (in ideal conditions)
[13:28:47] <OndraSter> simple ;)
[13:28:56] <specing> 36C = your body
[13:28:58] <OndraSter> and for the rest
[13:28:59] <OndraSter> <RikusW> C = (F-32) * 5 / 9
[13:29:00] <asteve> 0C water melts
[13:29:05] <asteve> stupid water
[13:29:07] <RikusW> ferdna: then go use F++ :-P
[13:29:28] <OndraSter> hehe
[13:29:31] <OndraSter> there is F#
[13:29:58] <ferdna> asteve, water doesnt melt at 0C
[13:30:05] <ferdna> it freezes...
[13:30:08] <asteve> water both freezes and melts at 0C
[13:30:18] <RikusW> OndraSter: Fortran = F# ?
[13:30:18] <ferdna> nope
[13:30:24] <OndraSter> no
[13:30:30] <ferdna> RikusW, no.... hehehhe
[13:30:34] <ferdna> its like C#
[13:30:38] <OndraSter> it is not
[13:30:38] <ferdna> its a .net language
[13:30:41] <OndraSter> it is .net language
[13:30:49] <OndraSter> but it is nowhere near any C-style stuff
[13:30:54] <ferdna> that is what i said...
[13:31:00] <RikusW> I know its .net, anything # is .net ;)
[13:31:02] <OndraSter> ...
[13:31:24] <ferdna> i stay as much as i can away from MS.
[13:31:26] <OndraSter> so have you heard about microsoft's project Singularity?
[13:31:33] <OndraSter> it is fairly old project
[13:31:34] <OndraSter> long time closed
[13:31:40] <ferdna> nop, not interested.
[13:31:41] <OndraSter> it was a research project
[13:31:51] <RikusW> about ?
[13:31:54] <OndraSter> well, it was operating system where only the kerneliest kernel was in native, the rest was .NET
[13:32:10] <OndraSter> the small speed loss during JIT was blown away by the fact that it all ran in kernel mode :)
[13:32:10] <asteve> ferdna:
http://chemistry.about.com/od/waterchemistry/f/What-Is-The-Melting-Point-Of-Water.htm
[13:32:22] <asteve> water melts and freezes at 0*C
[13:32:24] <asteve> because it's water
[13:32:31] <asteve> it can also remain liquid at -30*C
[13:32:52] * RikusW discovered RB520S-30 a realy tiny diode
[13:32:58] <RikusW> *really
[13:33:50] <OndraSter> RikusW, I like ROHM company :)
[13:34:03] <RikusW> its almost 0603
[13:34:08] <OndraSter> wow
[13:34:42] <OndraSter> 30V/200mA
[13:34:45] <OndraSter> not bad either
[13:35:43] <OndraSter> yay they are quite popular
[13:35:48] <OndraSter> well, well stocked
[13:35:49] <RikusW> at 1mA 100mV Vf
[13:35:58] <RikusW> *200mV Vf
[13:36:02] <OndraSter> :)
[13:36:40] <RikusW> thats weird, with increasing temp the Vf decreases
[13:37:25] <RikusW> replacement for 1n4148 ?
[13:39:37] <OndraSter> :)
[13:42:41] <RikusW> OndraSter: have you seen that sensolute motion sensor I posted yesterday ?
[13:45:23] <megal0maniac> Hi all
[13:45:28] <RikusW> hi megal0maniac
[13:46:30] <OndraSter> nope RikusW
[13:46:31] <ferdna> hi megal0maniac
[13:46:43] <OndraSter> hi megal0maniac
[13:47:15] <megal0maniac> I have a question completely unrelated to avr...
[13:47:24] <OndraSter> girls?
[13:47:51] <megal0maniac> Well naturally this is the place to ask about girls, but not today
[13:48:09] <megal0maniac> I've started uni (yay!)
[13:48:15] <OndraSter> yay
[13:48:21] <OndraSter> I am failing math already :D
[13:48:28] <RikusW> ugh
[13:48:40] <megal0maniac> But they have a stupid squid proxy which windows hates. Requires authentication as well.
[13:48:47] <RikusW> http://www.cstelectronics.co.za/downloads/sensolute/Sensolute_MVS-Application%20Note%20Rev1_5.pdf
[13:48:52] <RikusW> http://www.cstelectronics.co.za/downloads/sensolute/Sensolute_MVS0608_02-Datasheet%20Rev2_4.pdf
[13:48:55] <megal0maniac> Some stuff works, and some stuff doesn't know how to deal with it
[13:50:02] <megal0maniac> What I want, is some application which will provide a proxy server at 127.0.0.1:3208 or similar, and it will handle the authentication stuff. Either that, or a virtual network adapter. Any ideas/suggestions?
[13:50:41] <RikusW> megal0maniac: so which course are you doing ?
[13:51:04] <megal0maniac> RikusW: Electrical Engineering, Computer Systems stream at CPUT
[13:51:15] <megal0maniac> Used to be Cape Tech
[13:51:26] <OndraSter> I am doing IT, field "Computer engineering"
[13:53:15] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Do you know of a solution? You love your Windows :P
[13:53:28] <megal0maniac> I'm not even sure what to search for
[13:53:38] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, no idea, never heard of local proxy which would proxy to another proxy and auth there
[13:53:40] <OndraSter> try fiddler though
[13:53:45] <OndraSter> it is connection logger
[13:53:47] <OndraSter> but it works as local proxy
[13:55:26] <megal0maniac> I'll have a look, thanks. Used it before, but not like this
[13:56:16] * RikusW is a MCSE
[13:56:23] <RikusW> but for NT4....
[13:56:29] <megal0maniac> Heh :)
[13:56:45] <RikusW> I did the M$ exams too
[13:56:48] <RikusW> quite pricy
[13:56:54] <RikusW> that was back in 2000
[13:57:17] <RikusW> I'd much rather be a Linux Admin now
[13:57:48] <megal0maniac> A friend of mine is a linux admin with an expired mcse :P
[13:58:12] <RikusW> I did get the 4 core win2k books
[13:58:17] <RikusW> never did the exams
[13:58:28] <RikusW> good old SYBEX books
[13:59:01] <RikusW> megal0maniac: seems there might be two of those sometime ;)
[13:59:36] <RikusW> NT4 admin is painful changing between PDC and normal mode requires a complete reinstall.. :S :S
[13:59:53] <RikusW> what were M$ thinking ?!
[14:00:15] <megal0maniac> RikusW: He's quite a bit older than you :P But been doing it for a long time. 99% of the clients on his network are Windows, but he insists on running a Linux server :P
[14:00:16] <RikusW> 2k can change over, but it seems as slow as a service pack install....
[14:00:47] <RikusW> probably because win servers is expensive and a pita
[14:01:00] <RikusW> *are
[14:01:00] <megal0maniac> But AD would save a lot of time
[14:01:07] <megal0maniac> But yes, very $$
[14:01:21] <RikusW> doesn't Linux have AD too ?
[14:01:31] <megal0maniac> Nope
[14:01:33] <RikusW> its called something else
[14:01:47] <RikusW> M$ took that protocol mangled it and called it AD
[14:02:29] <megal0maniac> They like doing that :/
[14:03:01] <RikusW> yep...
[14:03:08] <RikusW> don't samba support AD ?
[14:03:15] <megal0maniac> Not sure
[14:03:24] <megal0maniac> But home drives and user accounts are all on the server
[14:03:34] <RikusW> I think it was called LDAP before...
[14:03:51] <megal0maniac> And you need a registry tweak to enable support on Windows7
[14:05:45] <megal0maniac> Tried setting up LDAP, but it was extremely difficult and complicated. 3 of us couldn't get it right, and one was supposedly an LDAP expert. Granted, I wasn't much help :P
[14:05:45] <RikusW> I dislike the M$ locking policy....
[14:05:59] <RikusW> heh
[14:10:01] <megal0maniac> Oh, I finally settled on a laptop
[14:10:18] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: 1366x768 screen res :/
[14:19:15] <OndraSter> <RikusW> don't samba support AD ?
[14:19:16] <OndraSter> it does
[14:19:30] <OndraSter> doesn't* btw
[14:19:33] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, fail :P
[14:19:38] <OndraSter> phones have got (full)HD resolution
[14:19:39] <OndraSter> :P
[14:28:15] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: All laptops within a reasonable pricerange have that screen res :/
[14:28:25] <megal0maniac> Apparently it has something to do with battery life
[14:28:45] <megal0maniac> BUT, it's 12.5" so the PPI is not too bad
[14:29:56] <megal0maniac> Got a good 'ol Lenovo ThinkPad. X220, mid-range-ish with an i5
[14:30:40] <OndraSter> oh nice
[14:30:50] <OndraSter> on 12.5" it is "good enough"
[14:31:01] <OndraSter> (I won't mention yet again that my 8 years old 12.1" has got 1400x1050)
[14:31:56] <megal0maniac> I know, I know
[14:32:27] <megal0maniac> Even my dad's ancient Dell had 1400xsomething
[14:32:56] <megal0maniac> Or something similar
[14:33:12] <megal0maniac> "They don't make 'em like they used to"
[14:37:50] <OndraSter> nope
[14:41:28] <OndraSter> huh, my tablet pc cost back in the day only 1400 GBP :)
[14:41:30] <OndraSter> probably before taxes
[14:41:49] <OndraSter> I thought it was more like 2000 GBP
[14:42:25] <OndraSter> hmm 1400 GBP with VAT
[14:42:27] <megal0maniac> If you want to feel good about yourself, go and find the cheapest laptop you can with that screen res or close
[14:42:35] <OndraSter> huh
[14:42:37] <OndraSter> nothing new :P
[14:42:49] <OndraSter> from britain or germany ... most likely
[14:43:01] <megal0maniac> But look at the prices...
[14:43:14] <OndraSter> I know that regular laptops suck
[14:43:21] <OndraSter> price-wise
[14:43:28] <OndraSter> you need at least $1k to get better screen
[14:43:54] <megal0maniac> Mine was only around USD1000, and that includes an ultrabase (dock) with DVD writer
[14:44:31] <megal0maniac> But the battery, oh the battery :)
[14:44:51] <megal0maniac> I'd gotten used to +-90mins
[15:02:04] <megal0maniac> G'night
[15:19:55] <RikusW> I see there is an alternative for VHDL and Verilog ->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handel-C
[15:21:00] <asteve> vhdl - because you hate yourself
[15:21:16] <RikusW> heh ;)
[15:21:53] <RikusW> asteve: is it that bad ? :-P
[15:22:30] <asteve> it has a steep learning curve
[15:23:15] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser
[15:23:48] <Tom_itx> is there support in studio for the dragon etc for a at900s4414
[15:24:07] <Tom_itx> or at90s2313
[15:24:11] <RikusW> at90s4414 is OLD
[15:24:19] <Tom_itx> i know that
[15:24:26] <Tom_itx> 8515 era
[15:24:41] <RikusW> there is a ATmega8515 too
[15:25:00] <Tom_itx> yes
[15:25:22] <RikusW> support might have been dropped...
[15:25:40] <Tom_itx> that was my reason for asking _him_
[15:26:40] <RikusW> AS4 supports it
[15:26:43] <RikusW> for stk500
[15:26:59] <Tom_itx> what about dragon
[15:27:11] <Tom_itx> the person that has a ream of those only has a dragon
[15:27:37] <RikusW> not for the dragon...
[15:27:56] * RikusW goes looking for the lufa mkii clone
[15:27:58] <Tom_itx> i looked it up in studio help as well
[15:28:13] <Tom_itx> avrdude supports it and also supports the dragon
[15:28:19] <Tom_itx> maybe that's an option
[15:29:04] <Tom_itx> i just thought Dean might know for sure
[15:30:20] <RikusW> mkii doesn't support it either in AS4
[15:30:27] <RikusW> avrdude should work
[15:31:06] <Tom_itx> yeah
[15:31:09] <Tom_itx> now,
[15:31:24] <RikusW> I've got AS4.18 SP3
[15:31:26] <Tom_itx> does the 4414 only have external clock or does it have an internal osc?
[15:31:29] <Tom_itx> me too
[15:31:36] <Tom_itx> and 5 and 5.1 and 6
[15:32:14] <Tom_itx> but i think AS4.18 SP3 was the last
[15:32:14] <RikusW> I've got 6 installed
[15:32:19] <RikusW> but have 5 around
[15:32:29] <RikusW> there is 4.19 too
[15:32:31] <Tom_itx> oh
[15:32:36] <Tom_itx> wasn't aware of that
[15:32:55] <RikusW> not used it yet, heard there was problems with it and WinAVR
[15:33:07] <RikusW> I do have 4.19, not tried it yet
[15:33:09] <Tom_itx> wait.. i've got 4.19
[15:33:13] <Tom_itx> installed
[15:33:19] <Tom_itx> build 716
[15:33:34] * RikusW got build 700
[15:34:01] <RikusW> get a stk500 ?
[15:34:11] <RikusW> or use avrdude to program those
[15:34:12] <Tom_itx> what for?
[15:34:17] <Tom_itx> they had one but can't find it
[15:34:21] <RikusW> at90s4414
[15:34:39] <Tom_itx> does it have internal osc?
[15:34:50] <Tom_itx> i haven't pulled the data sheet yet
[15:35:01] <RikusW> not sure, my old ds is not at hand right now
[15:35:18] <Tom_itx> i'll check later when i have more time
[15:37:45] <abetusk_w> Hey, I just saw this post from the Dangerous Prototypes blog:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=5066#p48859 . He says "R4 and $7 is limiting the current into the frequncy sense input pin. The internal clamping diodes in the microcontroller cna safely clamp 230 volts to 5 volts as long as the current is below 1mA."
[15:37:55] <abetusk_w> Where did he get that from? Is that in the datasheet?
[15:40:52] <Tom_itx> who knows
[15:41:36] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't trust the internal diodes for that
[15:43:12] <abetusk_w> would putting a 3.6V zener on that line do the trick?
[15:44:43] <Tom_itx> he's got a 5.1 zenner across the supply
[15:44:50] <RikusW> Tom_itx: from what I can tell at90s2313 is xtal only
[15:44:57] <abetusk_w> but that's for the supply, not for the frequency sense pin
[15:45:02] <Tom_itx> RikusW, what about the 4414
[15:45:04] <RikusW> there is only a SPIEN and FSTART fuse
[15:45:12] <Tom_itx> heh
[15:45:21] <RikusW> FSTART for short startup time
[15:45:24] <Tom_itx> i gotta run for a while
[15:45:25] <Tom_itx> bbl
[15:45:35] <RikusW> only have the 4433 ds
[15:46:34] <RikusW> 4433 only xtal or ext clock
[15:46:59] <Tom_itx> ok
[15:47:09] <Tom_itx> is there a fuse to select between the two?
[15:47:33] <RikusW> yes
[15:47:38] <RikusW> usual cksel
[15:47:45] <Tom_itx> k
[15:47:46] <Tom_itx> bbl
[15:47:46] <RikusW> no RC though
[15:47:50] <RikusW> bye
[15:54:14] <RikusW> Tom_itx: from the parts files it seems 4414 only got SPIEN and FSTART...
[15:54:32] <RikusW> no CKSEL fuses
[15:55:17] <RikusW> and those are accessible only when using HVPP
[17:49:10] <Malinuss> okay, so what is the name of a circuit, that would allow me, to select "power" from two sources, using just a single pin (low = source 1 signal gets trough, high = source2 signal gets trough)...
[17:49:33] <OndraSter_> two MOSFETs?
[17:49:50] <OndraSter_> maybe three to invert the signal
[17:50:25] <Malinuss> invert the signal?
[17:50:33] <Malinuss> why would I want that OndraSter_ ?
[17:50:53] <OndraSter_> so you can have two P channel FETs
[17:50:58] <OndraSter_> ;)
[17:51:49] <Casper> or a relay :D
[17:52:06] <OndraSter_> heh
[17:52:07] <OndraSter_> or that
[17:52:10] <Malinuss> any specific mosfet you could name for this job - we are talking switching between two sources to one adc pin....
[17:52:21] <Malinuss> there are like a milion of them
[17:52:22] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, so nearly 0 current loads?
[17:52:26] <OndraSter_> check any logic level ones
[17:52:33] <Casper> analog switch?
[17:52:36] <OndraSter_> or that
[17:52:41] <OndraSter_> analog switch = array of FETs
[17:53:29] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, well I want two analog inputs to one pin, and which is going trough would be decided using a 2nd pin, that is either high or low
[17:53:46] <Malinuss> I'm so bad at logics, sigh...
[17:56:14] <Malinuss> well yeah, I assume adc works like a logical level - so no current load...
[18:14:53] <Horologium> Malinuss, if it is just a 0-5 volt signal, and not actual power to something, an analog multiplexer would do the job well...
[18:23:49] <Horologium> this is actually how the AVR, and PIC too, do multiple analog channels. They have a multiplexer between several pins and the single ADC.
[18:29:38] <Horologium> http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7343 something like this would switch between two signals.
[18:30:40] <Malinuss> Thank Horologium
[18:31:10] <Horologium> that particular chip is gonna be HARD to solder.
[18:31:16] <Horologium> it is a teensy bga type chip.
[18:31:31] <r00t|home> 4066 is too old i guess?
[18:31:45] <Horologium> http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7503 better chip..
[18:32:11] <Horologium> r00t|home, thought he wanted something with a single switch...
[18:32:15] <Horologium> 4066 works too.
[18:32:42] <Horologium> nice old quad switch.
[18:33:34] <r00t|home> i have a tube of cmos 40xx multiplexers, come over and get one...
[18:34:15] <Horologium> I probably do too somewhere.
[18:34:24] <Horologium> piles of chips I've never cataloged.
[18:34:33] <r00t|home> tube of 4051, 8x multiplexer
[18:42:45] <Malinuss> so a 4066 will be best?
[18:43:34] <r00t|home> 4066 is an ooooold very standard chip... you should have one in your parts box
[18:43:44] <Malinuss> roger that
[18:43:44] <r00t|home> but it's just six single switches, no multiplexer
[18:43:53] <Malinuss> eh
[18:44:05] <r00t|home> so you will have to use two chips and always keep one on and one off
[18:44:23] <r00t|home> the 4051 lets you select one of eight inputs (8x multiplexer)
[18:44:39] <r00t|home> just search your favourte supplier's catalog for "analog multiplexer"
[18:44:45] <Malinuss> I see
[18:44:48] <Malinuss> that is clever
[18:44:55] <Malinuss> so a mutliplexer is what I want actually
[18:44:55] <r00t|home> s/two chips/two switches/
[18:45:10] <Malinuss> maybe I just find a 4x or something smaller then the 8x one
[18:45:12] <Malinuss> one more thing. maybe you guys could explain why the datasheet states the internal reference is 2.56V, but when I come to choose the multiplexer for the adc, I can only choose the 1.1V one? are there two references? (atmega32u4)
[18:46:13] <r00t|home> you can just use an 8x and use only two of the channels... i have a tube full of them, so i'd do that ;)
[18:46:22] <r00t|home> "the multiplexer for the adc"?
[18:47:42] <Malinuss> the mux
[18:48:25] <Malinuss> But after some testing the adc internal reference is 1.1V.. I'm just not sure what the 2.56V reference the datasheet is talking about is there for?
[18:49:25] <r00t|home> no idea
[18:50:16] <Horologium> max14763
[18:50:20] <Horologium> spdt switch..
[18:50:30] <Horologium> 2 channel analog multiplexer basically.
[18:51:05] <r00t|home> no results on ebay ;)
[18:51:14] <Malinuss> :(
[18:51:21] <Horologium> free sample from maxim.
[18:51:36] <Horologium> kind of a pain package though.
[18:51:39] <Horologium> no leads.
[18:51:39] <r00t|home> Horologium: bga package i guess? ;)
[18:51:44] <Horologium> just tabs on underside of the edges.
[18:51:44] <Malinuss> b-but they are so jewish about their samples (no offense)
[18:51:58] <Horologium> Malinuss, I have no problem getting samples out of maxim.
[18:52:01] <Horologium> just lie a little.
[18:52:08] <Malinuss> guess I need to lie more heh
[18:52:45] <Horologium> package is an 8 pin TDFN
[18:53:11] <Malinuss> TDFN?
[18:53:21] <Malinuss> oh nohs TDFN
[18:53:25] <r00t|home> Horologium: seriously, wouldn't something that fits on a breadboard be more useful to most people?
[18:53:28] <Malinuss> forget it, hehe
[18:53:32] <Horologium> r00t, yes.
[18:53:35] <Horologium> it would.
[18:53:38] <Malinuss> heh
[18:53:40] <Horologium> and there are some out there.
[18:53:54] <Horologium> just haven't found one yet because I've been doing three other things while looking.
[18:53:55] <Malinuss> TDFN is good if you are making a mobile phone
[18:54:12] <r00t|home> Malinuss: you're NOT making a mobile phone?!
[18:54:33] <Malinuss> of course I am, at some point
[18:54:45] <r00t|home> well, get going
[18:54:46] <Malinuss> I heard it's a good beginner project btw.
[18:54:51] <Tom_itx> gonna give iphone a run?
[18:55:07] <r00t|home> jphone, iphone successor
[18:55:13] <Tom_itx> for rookies maybe
[18:55:13] <Malinuss> yeah it will be the new iphone. just with SD card support
[18:55:26] <Malinuss> it will blow macfags away
[18:55:35] <Malinuss> "WOW SD cards, but they are cheap!"
[18:55:42] <Malinuss> "I don't want - too cheap"
[18:55:52] <Malinuss> so I might actually fail
[18:55:59] <Horologium> http://www.maximintegrated.com/products/switches/
[18:56:39] <Malinuss> I'm still not sure if I want a switch or a multiplexer
[18:56:57] <Horologium> multiplexer is just a multiple switch.
[18:57:07] <Malinuss> yeah of course..
[18:57:24] <Horologium> I think microchip has some analog multiplexers too.
[18:58:08] <Malinuss> I see
[19:01:23] <r00t|home> i don't understand the concept of looking for chips on manufacturer websites... most will be in unusable packages anyway... i'd either a) if i need it fast, check the catalog of a local shop, b) order from ebay
[19:02:15] <Tom_itx> then you're building for hobby and not for production
[19:03:00] <r00t|home> POLL: how many people here are building for production?
[19:03:15] <Tom_itx> i have
[19:03:25] <r00t|home> have != are
[19:03:26] <Horologium> I would, if I had a product to produce.
[19:03:37] <Tom_itx> small scale
[19:03:39] <Tom_itx> but i am
[19:03:40] <Horologium> I look at manu websites because I can usually get something from them.
[19:03:56] <Horologium> and can often find what I need in a package I can use if I dig.
[19:10:01] <Malinuss> ive gotta go
[19:10:02] <Malinuss> night
[19:10:55] <OndraSter_> nn
[20:37:22] <Tom_itx> asm question
[20:37:29] <Tom_itx> DEC r16
[20:37:37] <Tom_itx> BRNE loop
[20:37:41] <Tom_itx> what is compared there?
[20:37:48] <Tom_itx> loop is the start of the function
[20:37:51] <Tom_itx> loop:
[20:37:52] <Tom_itx> sry
[20:38:06] <Tom_itx> what is r16 compared to?
[20:46:14] <creep> Tom_itx<< BRNZ
[20:46:15] <slidercrank> Tom_itx, to zero I think
[20:47:22] <slidercrank> Tom_itx, you've just been shifted left BRNZ times
[20:54:02] <Tom_itx> i figured it out
[20:54:11] <Tom_itx> it reads the zero flag
[20:59:48] <tzanger> BRNE is checking zero
[21:00:01] <tzanger> NE is basically a subtraction with the result discarded but flags kept
[21:00:13] <tzanger> DEC updates flags
[22:34:25] <jadew> yeah, most (if not all) arithmetic instructions will alter the zero flag (when the result is zero)
[22:34:43] <jadew> and most jump instructions are based on that flag
[22:35:02] <jadew> (compare operations working with the zero flag too)
[22:35:14] <Tom_itx> pretty busy flag
[22:35:22] <jadew> heh, yeah
[22:36:42] <tzanger> there's also the underflow flag that gets used a lot (for branch if less than/greater than)
[22:37:18] <Tom_itx> do you need to manually clear those flags?
[22:37:23] <Tom_itx> or just read them
[22:37:28] <jadew> just read them
[22:37:56] <jadew> I think you can manipulate them trough the sreg flag (IIRC)
[22:38:04] <jadew> *sreg register
[22:38:13] <Tom_itx> will BRNE clear it when it returns true?
[22:38:41] <jadew> it should say in the datasheet if BRNE is altering Z, but I don't think it does
[22:38:52] <Tom_itx> it uses z
[22:39:04] <jadew> yeah
[22:39:38] <jadew> you normally don't care about clearing Z
[22:39:52] <jadew> but if you're bent on it, I just checked, you can alter them trough SREG
[22:40:33] <jadew> the reason why you don't care about it is because you'll only check Z after an operation that alters it
[22:41:19] <jadew> you'll never do a conditional jump with out having some sort of operation before it, that is setting or clearing Z
[22:42:25] <Tom_itx> how you comin on your code recovery?
[22:42:40] <jadew> I'm back on track :)
[22:42:44] <jadew> let me take a screenshot
[22:42:56] <jadew> (I didn't recover the code, I just rewrote it)
[22:43:18] <jadew> it wasn't as much as I thought it was, but spending 90% of the time reading docs makes it feel that way
[22:47:14] <jadew> http://dumb.ro/files/razed/razed8.png can't take credit for the way it looks tho, the editor control is scintilla, I only set it up, fixed some bugs and made some changes to the lexer
[22:48:08] <jadew> that and the rest of the crapload of piping code
[22:48:39] <Tom_itx> is this for linux?
[22:48:44] <jadew> no :)
[22:49:11] <theBear> lol, so basically you rewrote the part of the editor that lays stuff out, but you're not really responsible at all :)
[22:49:43] <theBear> does razed refer to your love of modern mini-scooters ?
[22:49:52] <jadew> :)
[22:50:12] <jadew> no, it sounds cool and has the begining of my name in it :P
[22:50:28] <jadew> and it's not taken by another editor (checked when I decided on the name)
[22:51:18] <Tom_itx> alright. i'm gonna hit the sack
[22:51:25] <jadew> night
[22:51:36] <theBear> cya tom
[22:51:48] <theBear> woah, now my mind is blown trying to guess your name
[22:51:55] <Tom_itx> haha
[22:52:12] <jadew> hehe
[22:52:17] <Tom_itx> i'll read how successful you are in the morning
[22:55:12] <theBear> i doubt it, i'm not even famous yet :)
[22:55:50] <jadew> you should start a band
[22:56:40] <theBear> heh maybe.... been a while since i had a band
[22:57:11] <jadew> I can't play any instrument properly, it's so annoying
[22:57:16] <theBear> oooh, mum met some guys the other day with a local band looking for a soundguy..... i always enjoy soundguying, and it could be a good way to get pocket money while i'm crippled
[22:57:45] <jadew> maybe they'll even let you play along
[22:58:18] <theBear> heh, i dunno if i can either, i spose i used to be 'ok' at a couple things, mostly ones with 4-6 (or 7 or 8 these days) strings... but i aint practiced much for a long time.... did start twiddling a bit after work at recent-ex-work... better than i been for a while i spose
[22:58:20] <jadew> at one of the wedding's I've been to, I noticed the sound guy was tagging along on some songs
[22:58:57] <theBear> when i used to do cover bands VERY regularly it was often fun to join in, with a hidden mic you could do backup and choruses and even the band didn't notice often :)
[22:59:11] <jadew> haha
[23:27:39] <w|zzy> theBear: Where do you live atm?
[23:28:23] <theBear> west side of oz
[23:28:54] <w|zzy> Damn :P
[23:29:01] <theBear> heh
[23:29:08] <w|zzy> my father in law is always looking for good soundguys
[23:30:03] <w|zzy> im hopeless at it.
[23:30:12] <w|zzy> though i dont mind helping him repair his gear
[23:32:37] <theBear> mmm, it seems to come naturally to me, even in the beginning when i didn't understand the technical reasons behind a lot of it... i think a lot of 'being a good soundguy' is being able to make things sound a way that most people don't dislike :)
[23:57:22] <creep> Tom_itx<< store flags and check bit if you do not want to clear.
