#avr | Logs for 2013-02-01

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[08:20:35] <kre10s> anyone using openocd with usbprog? apparently the shipped config does not set jtag_khz, after which openocd complains... anyone know of a sane value>
[08:41:46] <Malinuss> Are there any avr library out there to use one of your uc with a bootlader as a ISP programmer?
[08:44:05] <seldon> You mean to use one avr to program another?
[08:44:54] <Malinuss> seldon, yeah
[08:45:10] <seldon> http://www.fischl.de/usbasp/ does that.
[08:51:17] <damjan> Malinuss: I've built myself a littlewire for that
[08:51:59] <Malinuss> I see. I'm propably better off buying the programmer Tom_itx is selling anyway
[09:42:30] <OndraSter> Dear GCC:
[09:42:31] <OndraSter> WHAT THE HELL
[09:42:33] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2Mwb6
[09:42:35] <OndraSter> 0 >= 56 ?!
[09:43:38] <Steffanx> Optimization <> debugger stuff?
[09:44:34] <OndraSter> switched from -O3 to -Os. Still the same.
[09:44:59] <OndraSter> OVFCounter = volatile of course
[09:45:12] <Steffanx> You are the asm expert, read the assembly? :)
[09:46:12] <OndraSter> it is all optimized to some unreadable crap :D
[09:46:29] <seldon> No wonder with -Os. Try -O0.
[09:46:55] <Steffanx> Makes his code too large to fit into his xmega :P
[09:47:23] <seldon> I see how that could be a problem.
[09:47:45] <OndraSter> Steffanx, no
[09:47:49] <Steffanx> :P
[09:47:59] <seldon> Maybe OVFCounter changes after the comparison.
[09:48:01] <OndraSter> but it breaks all those "needs to be in <4cycles" stuff
[09:48:13] <Steffanx> inline assembly :P
[09:48:23] <OndraSter> heh
[09:48:24] <Steffanx> 'every' problem has a solution
[09:48:50] <OndraSter> I like assembly for one thing - it does *exactly* what you write
[09:48:55] <OndraSter> gcc can be bugged
[09:49:18] <Steffanx> CAN, so can your assembly
[09:49:50] <OndraSter> no, my mind would be bugged. asm => binary translators are so "easy" that they are not usually the problem
[09:49:53] <seldon> If you are human, your assembly is in fact more likely to be bugged. Gcc bugs tend to end in ICEs.
[09:57:25] <OndraSter> there is something indeedy wrong, the other part of the code where I use the OVFCounter does something weird too :P
[09:59:38] <seldon> Perhaps the thing whose overflows it counts overflows more often than you anticipated.
[10:00:10] <OndraSter> WTF
[10:00:16] <OndraSter> if I set up there breakpoint it works
[10:04:39] <OndraSter> ok seriously ... WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON
[10:04:53] <OndraSter> if I put a single breakpoint into the overflow irq, it does what it is supposed to do
[10:04:57] <OndraSter> if I do not, it goes crazy!
[10:13:06] <specing> Haha
[10:13:09] <specing> been there
[10:13:32] * seldon bets 5 internet dollars on race condition.
[10:13:45] <OndraSter> well yes
[10:13:51] <OndraSter> but... how can it be? The variable is volatile
[10:14:00] <kre10s> is that code in an interrupt?
[10:14:13] <OndraSter> ISR(TCD0_OVF_vect)
[10:14:13] <seldon> non-blocking isr?
[10:14:13] <OndraSter> {
[10:14:13] <OndraSter> OVFCounter++;
[10:14:13] <OndraSter> }
[10:14:25] <seldon> There goes that idea.
[10:14:30] <OndraSter> there are only two interrupts: the timer and USB
[10:14:33] <OndraSter> USB has got higher priority
[10:14:42] <OndraSter> USB does not use any nonUSB stuff
[10:23:25] <Malinuss> let's say I have two mcu's without UART... and I just want a one-way communication using one wire only.. Well transmitting would be easy - I would just use a timer set to X frequency, and at each tick of the timer I would just either do nothing - send 0, or set the pin high (simply following a "message array")... Now, how would the reciveing work? With a interrupt to "tune in" and therafter use a timer to check?
[10:35:46] <kre10s> Malinuss, you could use an extra line as a clock to shift the data out. and in. but if you really want only single wire communication, then you need to develop an asynchronous method.
[10:37:22] <Malinuss> kre10s, if I could use a extra line, I would. I can't though. Asynchronous method? I already have an idea how to format my "data packet", just no idea how to synch the receiver in
[10:38:00] <kre10s> you want a "data packet". that is start of frams - data - end of frame
[10:38:07] <darknite> Malinuss: assuming they both used the same timed interval to read the line, shouldn't that work either way? you just need to look for a pattern/handshake or similar first perhaps. initiate with alternating high/low a set number of times or similar
[10:40:10] <Malinuss> kre10s, but being more specifc how would that work? Let's say that I keep sending data at 1bit/s, how would I even start tuning in on the frequency? Just by getting an interrupt, and after that, just check each second?
[10:40:34] <kre10s> you don't even need interrupts/
[10:41:33] <kre10s> if you send data at 1M and your clock is fairly accurate you could receive at 2M or 3M and use majority vote to get the bits back out.
[10:43:51] <Malinuss> kre10s, you lost me now :). So so if I send data at 1bit/s, I can just keep checking, and just count time/check for changes?
[10:45:12] <darknite> yeah i think that's how he meant it. and for increased stability you can check more often and discard bits that didn't "double up"
[10:45:48] <darknite> so if you send at 1bit/s but read at 2bit/s you should always get two of the same values in a row, but now i'm freely interpreting kre10s
[10:46:03] <kre10s> yea. majority vote is something else. forget that.
[10:46:20] <OndraSter> so
[10:46:26] <OndraSter> it took me only an hour to figure out the bug
[10:46:30] <OndraSter> specing, if I tell you what it was, you will laugh
[10:46:40] <OndraSter> let's say that in datasheet is this
[10:46:48] <OndraSter> The FIFO size is (MAXEP[3:0] + 1) × 4 bytes
[10:46:51] <Malinuss> kre10s, but you think darknites method might work fine?
[10:46:51] <OndraSter> and I had in my code
[10:47:02] <OndraSter> u16 FIFO[(XBOOT_ENDPOINTS + 1)];
[10:47:07] <OndraSter> ;)
[10:47:14] <OndraSter> no need to say what happened when I changed it to u32
[10:47:27] <OndraSter> (it started working)
[10:47:32] <darknite> for 3bit/s reading of 1bit/s, then doing some kind of majority voting could be done i assume, because you get three values for every value sent, so just take the value there is atleast two of =) if that's what kre10s was referring to
[10:48:26] <kre10s> this whole thing just reminds me of CAN.
[10:50:37] <darknite> you mean the old can bus?
[10:50:50] <kre10s> what do you mean 'the old' ?
[10:51:20] <darknite> hmm hmm, is can the one used in cars?
[10:51:44] <kre10s> the can bus is still in use all over the place in new designes.
[10:52:08] <darknite> yeah i think i'm confusing it with something else
[10:52:19] <kre10s> yes. although theres flexray and some others as well.
[10:52:53] <darknite> ah yeah, checked wikipedia now, i was confused
[10:54:28] <Malinuss> okay. so if I send at 1bit/s I just check at 5bit/s, and if I both get low and high, just see which one there is the most off. But wouldn't it be possible to get to a "skip point" at which I lose a bit?
[10:54:51] <Malinuss> because I'm never really synch
[10:55:29] <Malinuss> or is that just a question of choosing frequencies that will fit together. like *not* 1.33bit/s and 5bit/s
[10:55:49] <kre10s> no.
[10:56:09] <Malinuss> no to what :)?
[10:56:10] <kre10s> you get samples at a frequency higher than the frequency of your signal.
[10:56:42] <kre10s> then you count the number of same bits in a row.
[10:57:34] <Malinuss> kre10s, and then?
[10:58:14] <kre10s> you know based on your frequencies how many samples fit into a bit. if you catch that many samples in a row, you know you got a bit
[11:00:31] <kre10s> now you just need to account for glitches. like when you sample in between bits. or your clocks are drifting, hence more samples fit into a bit than expected.
[11:00:34] <kre10s> you do this using bit stuffing.
[11:00:41] <Malinuss> kre10s, so if I send at 1bit/s and sample at 10bit/s. And let's say I counted 4 high and 6 low... and next time I would have sampled 3 high and 7 low. then I know I've got 1-0
[11:01:45] <Malinuss> kre10s, what about not having any pause between sending bits? Wouldn't that remove that glitch
[11:03:02] <kre10s> eh.... yes... you could use return to zero encoding. instead of non return to zero.
[11:04:12] <Malinuss> eh still not sure how to pull this off.. hmm
[11:04:20] <kre10s> on second thought... you could use frequency encoding.
[11:04:35] <kre10s> a 1 = 1s high 0= 2 seconds high
[11:06:01] <kre10s> onchange interrupt { t = timer_val; restart_timer(); if(pin is down){ if t is around 1s: 0 if t is around 2s: 1 } }
[11:07:33] <Malinuss> kre10s, okay I see. so just send a quick low signal between each high?
[11:07:56] <Malinuss> so it would go: high for 1 sec, low, high for 2 sec..... = 1-0
[11:08:12] <kre10s> yes. you could also say you send bits. where each bit consists of a high portion and a short low portion.
[11:10:30] <Malinuss> kre10s, this is pretty clever, because then I wouldn't have to synch - but only use interrupts on the receiver.... fiy: I will be doing this over RF, so there will be a lot of noise signal. but I think this method will be good for that
[11:13:55] <kre10s> in any case. make sure you have some SOF and a CRC.
[11:14:47] <kre10s> what kind of radio module are you using?
[11:16:30] <Malinuss> kre10s, this http://www.ebay.com/itm/330864199754?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649 .... also yeah I was thinking about sending 1 byte of adress/info first and then 1 byte of data...
[11:16:37] <Malinuss> and just change between those two
[11:17:18] <kre10s> you do you tell if one byte is an address or data?
[11:19:35] <Malinuss> kre10s, that is indeed a good question! :(
[11:19:56] <Malinuss> guess I need some kind of start/stop signal
[11:20:18] <Malinuss> like a high for 1s or whatever
[11:21:01] <kre10s> right. you need an SOF signal which is instantly recognizable.
[11:23:03] <kre10s> Then you can say that a frame looks like this: SOF + adr + len + app_data + CRC + EOF
[11:23:21] <Malinuss> len? CRC?
[11:23:45] <Malinuss> SOF and EOF would be some kind of start and end signals
[11:24:09] <kre10s> length of the data, checksum. to simplify you could say that data is always 10 bytes long or something.
[11:26:06] <Malinuss> yeah that would be easier...
[11:26:20] <Malinuss> or just 1 byte ;D
[11:28:37] <Malinuss> kre10s, okay if we say, that the adress would be 1 byte, and the data 4 byte. how would the checksum work?
[11:28:43] <Malinuss> it had to be 5 bytes, right?
[11:28:52] <Malinuss> and just be the data+adr
[11:28:53] <kre10s> no.
[11:29:41] <kre10s> checksum is an algorithm that you use on your data. some checksum algorithms take the literal sum of each byte of data.
[11:30:02] <creep> hi guys
[11:30:47] <kre10s> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checksum
[11:31:00] <creep> :)
[11:31:06] <creep> kre10s<< that for me?
[11:36:46] <[w_w]> creep if you want it.
[11:37:51] <creep> i thought... nwmnd
[11:37:58] <creep> what is up?
[11:39:53] <[w_w]> Trying to get openocd to work. not having any luck
[11:41:16] <Malinuss> creep, nope it was fore me, kre10s was helping me with getting my head around a 1 wire 1 way communcation protocol
[11:41:37] <Malinuss> and checksums are propably a good idea to us
[11:41:38] <Malinuss> e
[11:41:52] <[w_w]> Malinuss, technically you could use it for duplex.
[11:41:55] <creep> checksums are a good idea for any data transfer
[11:42:04] <Malinuss> duplex?
[11:42:14] <[w_w]> both way rx tx
[11:42:26] <Malinuss> [w_w], then I would need 2
[11:42:34] <Malinuss> as in 2 kits
[11:42:46] <creep> i'd go for a cat5e
[11:42:49] <Malinuss> but yeah, just not what I need
[11:43:15] <OndraSter> I AM
[11:43:16] <OndraSter> RIDICULOUSLY
[11:43:17] <OndraSter> HAPPY
[11:43:18] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2My6A
[11:43:25] <creep> yo OndraSter
[11:43:28] <Malinuss> creep, huh? I'm using one way RF
[11:43:32] <OndraSter> ey cre
[11:43:34] <OndraSter> creep,
[11:43:42] <creep> Malinuss<< oh, i thought i wire
[11:43:49] <Malinuss> nope
[11:45:20] <OndraSter> I AM SO HAPPY
[11:45:22] <OndraSter> happy HAPPY HAPPY
[11:45:37] <OndraSter> haPPy
[11:45:38] <OndraSter> HAppY
[11:47:17] <[w_w]> OndraSter, in debug.h #ifdef DEBUG \n #define DEBUG_MSG(x) usb_serial-send(x) \n #else #define DEBUG_MSG(x) /* */ \n #endif
[11:47:24] <OndraSter> :)
[11:47:26] <OndraSter> sure
[11:48:00] <vsync_> ok
[11:49:20] <creep> vsync_<< why are you needed anyway ?
[11:49:33] <vsync_> just cause
[11:49:47] <creep> i'd make vsync function built in the video card with 2 buffers
[11:50:03] <vsync_> anyway i need to make myself a piezo igniter and then hook that on to my 2.4ghz rx so i can shoot fireworks from my quadcopter
[11:50:18] <creep> hahaha
[11:50:30] <vsync_> i kid you not
[11:50:41] <vsync_> i was thinking of those small fireworks... that don't go out in a boom
[11:53:02] <[w_w]> 9/12v + relay/mosfet nichrome wire around fuse.
[11:56:31] <creep> [w_w]<< i get the idea
[11:56:50] <creep> saw some video on the youtube crap
[11:57:03] <creep> of course every terrorist will like that
[12:02:44] <OndraSter> o hey abcminiuser
[12:02:45] <OndraSter> 'sup?
[12:03:07] <abcminiuser> Heyo
[12:03:17] <abcminiuser> Moving day on Sunday :(
[12:03:20] <OndraSter> guess what! My USB stack with CDC now works!
[12:03:20] <creep> ho-ho-hooo santa clause is here
[12:03:22] <OndraSter> moving where?
[12:03:34] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2My6A
[12:04:00] <OndraSter> (the board is connected to my laptop, Dragon sucks because it re-enumerates whenever you stop debugging :( )
[12:05:07] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, downtown, I had to move because the company that owns the building I'm in now is selling it :(
[12:05:13] <OndraSter> oh
[12:05:18] <OndraSter> is that your Aussie or Sweden house?
[12:05:22] <abcminiuser> ^^ Congrats!
[12:05:22] <OndraSter> apartment
[12:05:25] <OndraSter> thanks :D
[12:05:28] <abcminiuser> Norwegian
[12:05:35] <OndraSter> ah
[12:05:50] <OndraSter> (why did I confuse Norway with Sweden?)
[12:06:20] <OndraSter> I could use moving - I need to clean my room completely
[12:07:56] <OndraSter> it took me 1 hour to track down stupid mistake today
[12:08:21] <OndraSter> The FIFO size is (MAXEP[3:0] + 1) × 4 bytes,
[12:08:22] <abcminiuser> Oh?
[12:08:31] <OndraSter> I gave it u16 FIFO[(XBOOT_ENDPOINTS + 1)];
[12:08:33] <OndraSter> :(
[12:08:41] <abcminiuser> Derp :P
[12:08:43] <OndraSter> yes
[12:16:41] <yunta> capitalized non-constants ?
[12:16:55] <yunta> all-caps
[12:17:02] <yunta> haven't seen those for a while
[12:17:39] <OndraSter> XBOOT_ENDPOINTS is a constant
[12:17:46] <OndraSter> or do you mean FIFO?
[12:21:17] <vsync_> abcminiuser: how much cod do you digest weekly
[12:21:20] <vsync_> 2kg?
[12:23:04] <abcminiuser> Hell no, I don't eat fish much
[12:23:17] <abcminiuser> You'd be suprised what you can do with just chicken and pork
[12:23:43] <vsync_> not in nor no
[12:23:47] <vsync_> it's all cod
[12:23:57] <creep> wow, check this out "ufo nightflight" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAXd3ATP9y4
[12:25:13] <vsync_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkRWECYnEWg this guy's a hella pro.
[12:26:27] <creep> i'd do this with an aeroplane
[12:26:28] <creep> ;>
[12:28:29] <vsync_> doubt it
[12:32:07] <creep> bets?
[12:32:52] <creep> but pretty good for that kind of controller
[12:32:54] <creep> ;/
[12:36:55] <creep> the "standard" R/C gear makes me frustrated and i make things crash
[12:38:21] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, will you be in some atmel video again? :P
[12:38:55] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, no one wants to see that :P
[12:42:24] <OndraSter> why abcminiuser ? :D
[12:42:30] <OndraSter> better than person reading whatever is on the screen
[12:42:34] <OndraSter> like in the mesh video
[12:42:40] <OndraSter> (was reuploaded, maybe they changed it)
[12:43:04] <abcminiuser> Yeah I ad-libbed mine since it was the second one we ever did and no one had a plan :P
[12:43:14] <abcminiuser> Mine was SUPPOSED to be an internal pilot
[12:43:46] <OndraSter> heh internal
[12:45:40] <Horologium> internal = release to public when nobody is looking.
[12:46:00] <abcminiuser> Basically
[12:46:15] <abcminiuser> "Oh by the way we decided to make yours public, so we have something to start with"
[12:46:19] <Malinuss> OndraSter, I think many of their new videos are like very dynamic and fun to watch
[12:47:07] <Malinuss> some of the older atmel videos are just some nervous boys reading things up ;D
[12:47:25] <abcminiuser> :P
[12:48:02] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, you working for atmel?
[12:48:18] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, I may be depending on whether you are here to complain... ;)
[12:48:40] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, haha I more hoped I could get samples of:
[12:48:43] * Malinuss is finding a list
[12:48:51] <abcminiuser> We have a sample center now
[12:49:04] <abcminiuser> And unlike our old sample center, I'm told this one actually gives out samples
[12:49:07] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, haha I was joking... but you do?
[12:49:12] <abcminiuser> Sure
[12:49:15] <abcminiuser> Lemme find a link
[12:50:23] <Malinuss> I guess it's hard for someone like atmel to give out samples, compared to TI.. because almost everyone could use a extra uc, hah
[12:50:23] <abcminiuser> https://secure.atmel.com/forms/sample-request.aspx
[12:50:38] <abcminiuser> Ja, but you have a better chance this time
[12:50:50] <abcminiuser> Basically it was impossible to get one at all before the recent relaunch
[12:50:55] <abcminiuser> Now it's about 25% success rate
[12:51:17] <Malinuss> "Your email domain is not authorized to request samples from Atmel.com." Guess I would need a domain adress haha
[12:51:31] <abcminiuser> Don't use gmail or whatever
[12:51:38] <Horologium> probably can't use gmail or aol for that Malinuss
[12:51:44] <Malinuss> nope
[12:51:55] <abcminiuser> Someone needs to register www.agiantcompanythatbuyslotsofchips.com and give out free emails
[12:52:14] <Horologium> I used to get samples from atmel some years back. that's how I got my first ones when I lived in missouri.
[12:52:37] <Horologium> abcminiuser, I have a gmail hosted domain and email and it works.
[12:52:43] <creep> hey Horologium
[12:52:49] <Horologium> or did back then.
[12:53:00] <Horologium> should try again. just saw an attiny I want to play with.
[12:53:24] <creep> how would you make the quadcopter fly in one straight, or curved line in 3d space while autorotating?
[12:54:55] <Horologium> 12dof inertial and gyro sensor unit.
[12:54:59] <Horologium> and lots of math.
[12:56:41] <Horologium> http://www.atmel.com/devices/attiny1634.aspx this looks like a fun little chip.
[12:58:10] <Horologium> guess the only thing that makes it a tiny is no hardware multiplier.
[12:59:10] <abcminiuser> Also the name :P
[13:00:01] <Horologium> well, that too.
[13:00:12] <Horologium> but it has the features of a mega minus the hardware multiplier.
[13:01:09] <specing> hw mult doesen't really require that much circuitry
[13:01:44] <Horologium> anyhow, lunch over. back to work.
[13:06:23] <Tom_itx> nu uh, just gettin started
[13:06:58] <creep> here is what a military tire looks like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wAvxQfusWU
[13:10:02] <vsync_> to no avail
[13:10:07] <vsync_> crap
[13:11:16] <Tom_L> what happens when they get full of rocks and mud?
[13:11:36] <vsync_> well, the nerds at the drawing table never figured that out
[13:11:43] <vsync_> that's the problem with nerds and/or engineers in general
[13:11:52] <vsync_> shit only works in an ideal world
[13:12:18] <vsync_> and no matter how clever you try to be, there's always someone or soemthing more clever than you
[13:14:53] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, yes, your sampling now works :)
[13:14:59] <OndraSter> I got samples within 4 days or so
[13:15:04] <OndraSter> and that was in... september?
[13:15:24] <OndraSter> packed the same way as TI samples are :D
[13:15:58] <creep> Tom_itx<< you can put a "condome" on the tire
[13:17:12] <vsync_> nice
[13:17:17] <vsync_> so that tires can have fun times
[13:17:20] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, if I order one of your USBTiny Mkii Programmer, right now, would you be willing to throw a connector in with it?
[13:17:25] <vsync_> i need a tire i can train
[13:18:03] <Malinuss> also - it works with atmel studio 6, right?
[13:18:21] <Malinuss> I want it to run automagically
[13:19:57] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, yes
[13:20:09] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, how would you know :P?
[13:20:18] <abcminiuser> I wrote the firmware for it?
[13:20:26] <OndraSter> haha
[13:20:27] <OndraSter> USB!
[13:20:33] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, how many hair did you rip out? :)
[13:20:37] <OndraSter> during writing of LUFA
[13:20:38] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, hahaha touché
[13:20:45] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, all of them
[13:20:49] <OndraSter> :)
[13:20:50] <abcminiuser> Just not on my head
[13:20:53] <OndraSter> haha
[13:20:55] <OndraSter> cat?
[13:21:03] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, you got schooled son ;)
[13:21:41] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, so for let's say I want to use it for attiny.. I just choose it under tools (as mkII) with the right port, and BAM - it works?
[13:22:01] <Malinuss> compile - magic - my mcu is programmed?
[13:22:08] <abcminiuser> Yes it works the same as a real one
[13:22:16] <abcminiuser> The only differences are:
[13:22:24] <abcminiuser> 1) Seperate connectors for ISP, PDI and TPI
[13:22:36] <abcminiuser> 2) Needs a different firmware for AVRDude under Windows
[13:22:48] <abcminiuser> 3) No reverse or short indication in the GUI
[13:22:52] <abcminiuser> 4) Made from bacon
[13:23:15] <Malinuss> do I need to worry about the firmware for AVR dude if I use atmel studio?
[13:23:22] <abcminiuser> No
[13:23:35] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, are you the one sending them?
[13:23:42] <abcminiuser> Nope
[13:23:55] <abcminiuser> I write the firmware, everyone else makes hardware and loads my firmware onto it
[13:25:09] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, well then I know who to contact if it won't work!
[13:25:22] <abcminiuser> Yup, the hardware manufacturer ;)
[13:25:26] <Malinuss> haha
[13:26:07] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, can you set fuses with that thing?
[13:26:25] <abcminiuser> Yes
[13:26:37] <abcminiuser> It implements the same protocol as the real one
[13:26:46] <Malinuss> okay cool. Just making sure :)
[13:28:03] <Tom_itx> just be sure i know you are you if you do
[13:31:52] <Tom_itx> i'll send it out here after bit.. gettin ready to run some errands anyway
[13:32:12] <Malinuss> oh that sounds nice
[13:32:29] <Tom_itx> feel lucky you got in under the postage hike
[13:32:38] <Malinuss> huh?
[13:32:41] <Tom_itx> they just raised our rates here first of the monty
[13:32:43] <Tom_itx> month
[13:32:48] <Malinuss> oh
[13:32:59] <Tom_itx> i haven't had a chance to update it :D
[13:32:59] <Malinuss> would it be more then 5$ to ship to EU by then?
[13:33:23] <Tom_itx> i sent one to israel and it _cost_ me over $6
[13:33:33] <Malinuss> heh I see
[13:33:33] <Tom_itx> i'll find out i guess
[13:34:00] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, do you still update the firmware btw.? If you did, is it possible to update it?
[13:34:11] <Tom_itx> i figure packaging etc as part of shipping but the actual postage is getting to be more than i charge
[13:34:25] <Tom_itx> yes
[13:34:26] <Tom_itx> and yes
[13:34:32] <Tom_itx> minor change
[13:34:38] <Tom_itx> nothing to get excited about
[13:35:24] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, yes I do, it's part of my bigger LUFA project
[13:35:35] <abcminiuser> And you can update the firmware with a paperclip and a USB cable
[13:35:54] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, you should rebuild the firmware FYI from the latest trunk
[13:36:02] <Tom_itx> what's new?
[13:36:09] <Tom_itx> i got the last one you mentioned
[13:36:29] <Tom_itx> i forget what it was now...
[13:36:58] <abcminiuser> Enumeration reliability fix in the last week (LUFA core) and ISP programming speed saved in EEPROM
[13:37:11] <Tom_itx> yeah that was it..
[13:37:18] <Tom_itx> the eeprom thing
[13:37:22] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, oh you are the guy behind LUFA? oh shit... I once tried to use my atmega32u4, and to emulate a COM port with the USB, to make communication simpler (using some simple LUFA project), but I've never made it work ;D
[13:37:23] <Tom_itx> nothing else?
[13:37:37] <creep> what do you think at first? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3Iz7b95-8
[13:37:42] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, nothing relevent to your HW that I can think of
[13:37:48] <creep> "Guy Gets Sucked into jet engine"
[13:38:04] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, this will help hopefully soon: http://gallery.atmel.com/Products/Details/222b3d8b-a077-4444-a468-9290071c99bb
[13:39:09] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, oh! that looks sweet. I think I actually succeded compiling the project, can't remember why it didn't work hehe..
[13:39:18] <Malinuss> but yeah having it as a addon would be cool
[13:39:37] <Tom_itx> cool dean!
[13:39:45] <Tom_itx> REQUIRES studio 6??
[13:39:48] <OndraSter> of course
[13:39:51] <OndraSter> what else has got gallery
[13:40:00] <OndraSter> who else but quagmire!
[13:40:12] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, well that's the Studio version of it, what else would it require?
[13:40:22] <abcminiuser> I'll still make the standalone releases too of course
[13:40:43] <abcminiuser> You'll notice it's not compatible with what you have installed, too...
[13:40:55] <Tom_itx> i loaded studio 6 and nearly every time i try to start it, it want's me to do an update
[13:41:07] <Tom_itx> an hour or two later i'm able to use it
[13:41:10] <Malinuss> ^that. at least the first 10 times
[13:41:16] <abcminiuser> Hrm, we haven't pushed anything new recently I can think of
[13:41:28] <abcminiuser> Anyway, a lot of that will be sorted out soon
[13:41:34] <Tom_itx> it wanted me to load a new framework couple days ago
[13:41:38] <OndraSter> huh
[13:41:45] <OndraSter> never had any issues with AS itself
[13:41:58] <Malinuss> not an issue. just a lot of small updates
[13:42:06] <Malinuss> and you had to restart it every time
[13:42:11] <OndraSter> ok, I had no small updates either :)
[13:42:16] <Tom_itx> but i'm not running state of the art hardware either
[13:42:35] <OndraSter> installed AS6 with current update (SP2?) and off I went
[13:43:29] <creep> haha "Mini Cooper (Part 1/2) With Helicopter Turbine Jet Engine Smokes" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDBFAt3uqrc
[13:43:44] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, but with that plug-in, it would be pretty streight-forwad to emulate a COM port with a mcu that has usb?
[13:44:11] <abcminiuser> A supported one, yes hopefully
[13:44:38] <abcminiuser> It's basically just the demos I already release, but with one click to generate a fresh copy, and building natively within studio
[13:44:39] <OndraSter> hehe
[13:44:45] <abcminiuser> Oh, and you can add/remove modules with a wizard
[13:44:49] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, how is xmega support with LUFA?
[13:44:51] <abcminiuser> And configure with a header file
[13:44:57] <OndraSter> if you need any help about it, I know now a lot :P
[13:45:05] <abcminiuser> OndraSter, I have a test version of the extension that has working USB demos
[13:45:15] <OndraSter> :)
[13:45:18] <abcminiuser> But the LUFA architecture isn't much good for XMEGA, so not sure if I'll release it
[13:45:24] <OndraSter> why?
[13:45:31] <abcminiuser> Better to start again with an interrupt based stack than bolt it on
[13:45:39] <abcminiuser> Otherwise people will complain
[13:46:00] <OndraSter> ah
[13:46:44] <Tom_itx> we complain anyway
[13:48:27] <OndraSter> if you want somebody to complain - just come to czech republic
[13:48:29] <OndraSter> everybody complains
[13:48:37] <OndraSter> about everything
[13:48:52] <OndraSter> yet they do not change when they are offered
[13:48:54] <OndraSter> :(
[13:49:05] <OndraSter> "democracy = where stupid people overvote smart people"
[13:49:20] <OndraSter> enough of czech politics and presidents and everything though. This is AVR!
[13:49:55] <creep> OndraSter<< that is good, stupid people can be controlled
[13:50:30] <OndraSter> they are controlled by the wrong people
[13:50:45] <creep> probably, but it is good for them
[13:50:47] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, but does it work already?
[13:51:09] <OndraSter> creep, them? Maybe. The other people? hell no
[13:51:39] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, "this extension is not installable on any current installed product"... I have AS 6 installed?
[13:51:44] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, sure does
[13:51:47] <OndraSter> wait for the update
[13:51:51] <OndraSter> of AS
[13:51:57] <Malinuss> ?
[13:51:58] <abcminiuser> Look again at the download page at the "supports" section ;)
[13:52:22] <Malinuss> 6.1...? oh ;D
[13:52:23] <OndraSter> 6.1 :P
[13:52:29] <abcminiuser> Ah sweet jesus, the Atmel gallery sends me one email for every person that downloads it
[13:52:31] <OndraSter> that "screenshot" looks awful btw
[13:52:33] <OndraSter> haha
[13:52:44] <abcminiuser> It was auto-generated from the thumbnail image
[13:52:53] <abcminiuser> Apparently their scalar doesn't do transparencies
[13:52:53] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, haha enjoy the email
[13:53:45] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, also, you have propably nothing to do with this: but the hp/IDE needs a auto-login function
[13:53:58] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, you got email
[13:58:05] <Tom_itx> anyway.. off to the post
[14:06:15] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, when will they make 3.3V 8-bit avr?
[14:06:35] <abcminiuser> We have tons of those
[14:06:50] <OndraSter> almost all of them
[14:06:51] <abcminiuser> Most newer AVRs will run down to 3V
[14:06:52] <OndraSter> well, all of them
[14:06:56] <abcminiuser> Some down to 1.8
[14:06:59] <OndraSter> yep
[14:07:02] <OndraSter> OR switch to xmega!
[14:07:04] <OndraSter> native 3.3V :P
[14:07:09] <OndraSter> goes down to 1.6V at 12MHz
[14:08:08] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, did I mention how I overclocked it? 80MHz core, the code just blinked a LED
[14:08:11] <OndraSter> but 80MHz!
[14:08:18] <OndraSter> at 3.3V :P
[14:08:43] <abcminiuser> Dayum
[14:09:00] <OndraSter> that was 256A3U
[14:10:08] * specing waits for Malinuss to figure out that abcminiuser works for atmel
[14:11:08] <darknite> hehe
[14:11:39] <specing> tick tick tick...
[14:12:57] <Malinuss> hehe
[14:13:31] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, even though you work for atmel (I assume you work with mcu's) - do you still have hobby-projects?
[14:13:45] <Malinuss> oh wait I think LUFA is your hobby project?
[14:13:48] <Malinuss> isn't it
[14:13:53] <abcminiuser> Mostly LUFA when I can be bothered these days :P
[14:14:02] <abcminiuser> Coding at work kinda saps some of the fun out of it
[14:27:46] <Malinuss> I could imagine
[14:27:50] <Malinuss> *imagine
[14:37:19] <abcminiuser> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtixqUXid9A
[14:37:24] <abcminiuser> What. the christ.
[14:51:04] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser, what do they have you doing these days?
[14:51:15] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, coding
[14:52:13] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, is it true that avr32 is "dead"?
[14:52:29] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, how so? We still sell them
[14:53:17] <Malinuss> idk. just something I heard. I don't know anything about the 32-bit mcu marked (even less then about the 8-bit at least ;D)
[14:53:32] <abcminiuser> AP7000 is dead
[14:53:36] <abcminiuser> Dead as a dodo
[14:53:43] <abcminiuser> But the UC3s are in production
[14:53:49] <Tom_itx> movie looks nuts
[14:55:06] <abcminiuser> Tom_itx, SCIENCE HAS NO PLACE HERE
[14:57:12] <kobsu> abcminiuser: could you there in Atmel update newlib patches and thus upgrade it within avr32 toolchain?:)
[14:57:36] <abcminiuser> Toolchain isn't my area
[14:57:42] <abcminiuser> But christ I hate newlib
[14:57:51] <tandoori> hello i have various questions about programming avrs. so before I can use an I/O pin, I have to set its direction with cbi/sbi right using DDR
[14:59:16] <kobsu> but maybe you could give a hint those who are working with toolchains?:) i have been asking this since last summer :/
[15:01:39] <abcminiuser> kobsu, our team in Chennai
[15:02:06] <abcminiuser> The only way for external customers to contact them is most likely the public Bugzilla for studio
[15:02:24] <abcminiuser> I don't think the UC3 toolchain is a priority however
[15:02:28] <abcminiuser> Since it works
[15:03:00] <Malinuss> tandoori, I thought you didn't want to use asm ;D
[15:03:08] <Malinuss> and now you go all cbi/sbi?
[15:03:14] <tandoori> huh
[15:03:19] <kobsu> it "works", there are important patches for printf family functions in more recent version of newlib
[15:03:35] <Malinuss> tandoori, those are asm command?
[15:03:42] <tandoori> Malinuss: i may have mispoke. I will use a little ASM in a C enviornment
[15:03:50] <Malinuss> I see.
[15:03:55] <tandoori> and not pure asm
[15:04:46] <tandoori> for example, i will use C syntax for loops, if statements, and other common functions that would be stupid to write in plain ol ASM
[15:05:40] <Malinuss> tandoori, it is somehow easier to set I/O pins with C. but if you want to do it in asm, you have to set one of the multi purpose register to whatever you want, and then yes, copy that register over to the DDR, and in the same fashion decide whatever it is high or low with PORTn register
[15:06:33] <tandoori> that doesn't make sense
[15:06:58] <tandoori> for example, i use 'cbi(DDRB,PB0);'
[15:07:00] <kobsu> abcminiuser: ok... then I have asked if there's a dfu in UC3 L-series... haven't got a response within a week although most of the time I'm getting response quickly.. so do you know if there's a dfu in L-series?
[15:08:01] <tandoori> Malinuss: on nevermind i get it now
[15:08:03] <abcminiuser> A serial one yes I believe
[15:08:33] <Malinuss> tandoori, uhh. that doesn't make sense ;D... at least not for me.. http://www.avrbeginners.net/
[15:08:43] <Malinuss> tandoori, read under I/O ports
[15:08:51] <abcminiuser> http://asf.atmel.com/docs/2.11.1/common.services.usb.class.dfu_atmel.device.bootloader.avr32.ucl3_l4/html/index.html
[15:08:52] <tandoori> what? that is perfectly legal code
[15:09:50] <abcminiuser> UC3L DFU is in current ASF
[15:10:01] <kobsu> abcminiuser: "A serial one", you mean usart?
[15:10:19] <abcminiuser> Yeah
[15:10:30] <abcminiuser> It's loaded into the UC3L on the UC3L Xplained kit
[15:10:34] <abcminiuser> So it's there somewhere
[15:12:23] <Malinuss> tandoori, oh nvm. just me that haven't been using asm for some time. just remember 1) set the direction with DDRn 2) set either high or low with PORTn (or pullup resistor or no, if DDRn is on input)
[15:12:28] <Malinuss> that's all ;D
[15:12:38] <tandoori> hehe
[15:12:59] <kobsu> ouh, ok... i'm confused which pins are default ones for VBUS_ID and that one which checks whether to load dfu or run the uploaded software
[15:13:28] <kobsu> maybe i could check schematics of uc3l xplained
[15:14:42] <Tom_itx> tandoori, PORT |= 1<< Bit
[15:14:57] <tandoori> i dont like using that syntax, Tom_itx
[15:15:13] <Tom_itx> it's very clear to read
[15:15:18] <tandoori> only if I absolutely must
[15:15:28] <kobsu> ahh... I guess that I have already checked that... there was A-series that handled the communication via usb
[15:15:32] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, he rather use asm ;D
[15:15:56] <Tom_itx> k. i'm out.
[15:16:21] <Malinuss> waiiit
[15:16:28] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, are you Dean Camera ?
[15:16:37] <kobsu> abcminiuser: could you give the path to the UC3L DFU you found in current ASF?
[15:16:53] <Tom_itx> he is
[15:16:56] <tandoori> wait, i dont understand what this PORTx is for
[15:17:00] <Tom_itx> even if he denies it
[15:17:42] <abcminiuser> Malinuss, heh, are we playing 20 questions?
[15:17:44] <Tom_itx> port is for IO
[15:17:45] <abcminiuser> Yep
[15:18:03] <tandoori> that set pins in a group?
[15:18:07] <abcminiuser> Hrm, possibly, but I just grabbed it from the ASF inside studio
[15:18:09] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, just letting you know - really nice tutorials.
[15:18:13] <abcminiuser> Thanks :)
[15:18:19] <Tom_itx> PINx is for reading PORTx is for writing
[15:18:33] <tandoori> ah ha
[15:18:57] <Tom_itx> DDRx is for setting the direction
[15:19:05] <tandoori> yeah i got that much :-P
[15:19:26] <Tom_itx> PORTx = 0xFF sets the pullups
[15:19:29] <Malinuss> tandoori, DDRn - for direction (0 input, 1 output).. PORTn - for low or high (or pullup resistor if DDRn 0)
[15:20:12] <tandoori> that still doesnt make sense
[15:20:57] <Malinuss> so let's say you want pb0 to be high output. 1) Set pb0 as output - DDRB = 0b00000001 2) set pb0 as HIGH - PORTB = 0b00000001
[15:20:58] <tandoori> so are you telling me that if i set a pin as input, i cannot use PORTx?
[15:21:01] <Malinuss> maybe that makes more sense
[15:21:43] <Malinuss> tandoori, of course you can. each pin is seperate.. so some pins from DDRB can be input, while other are output.
[15:21:51] <Malinuss> they are not connected as such
[15:22:41] <tandoori> high output and low output i think thats what im not understanding
[15:22:59] <tandoori> is that what it is initially set as?
[15:23:50] <Malinuss> high output = 5V from that pit and low output = 0V from that pin
[15:23:57] <Malinuss> so high = on low = off
[15:24:07] <Malinuss> high = 1 low = 0
[15:24:19] <tandoori> yes i know what those mean
[15:24:47] <tandoori> i think the problem is i am not understanding the context of where PORTx can be used
[15:25:03] <Malinuss> tandoori, to turn a led on or off?
[15:25:06] <Malinuss> or whatever
[15:25:15] <tandoori> sure, why not
[15:25:26] <Malinuss> it's used whenever you want to interact with something
[15:25:54] <tandoori> so that is the specific function to change the pin from high to low
[15:25:54] <Grievre> <tandoori> so are you telling me that if i set a pin as input, i cannot use PORTx?
[15:25:54] <Grievre> um
[15:26:02] <Grievre> "if I set a pin as input, I can't tell it to output things"
[15:26:03] <Grievre> sounds about right
[15:26:06] <Grievre> ?_?
[15:26:27] <Grievre> oh ok
[15:26:34] <Malinuss> Grievre, when the pin is as input, the PORTn is used to enable/disable the pullupresistor
[15:26:34] <Grievre> derp
[15:26:36] <tandoori> and PINx is used to read whether the pin is high or low (im assuming to put that data into a variable)
[15:26:39] <Grievre> Malinuss: makes sense
[15:26:58] <Malinuss> tandoori, yes
[15:27:08] <tandoori> okay, i understand it now
[15:27:10] <tandoori> yay
[15:27:44] <Malinuss> tandoori, and I wouldn't see it as a "function"... It is merly a 8-bit register... and each bit represents one pin on your mcu
[15:28:10] <tandoori> surely there are more...robust...functions to handle data I/O
[15:28:27] <tandoori> Malinuss: 'PINx' is a function to me
[15:28:58] <tandoori> but sure we can call it a register if that will make you happy
[15:28:59] <Malinuss> tandoori, it is not... It's just a register holding a value... It's not a function as in programming
[15:29:20] <tandoori> fine its a register
[15:29:29] <Grievre> tandoori: it is just a magical memory address that you read from like any other memory address. It is not a procedure--a location in instruction memory that you can jump or call to.
[15:29:33] <Malinuss> tandoori, think about it as a variable - if you change it - the mcu does something
[15:29:42] <Malinuss> ^
[15:29:45] <tandoori> sure
[15:29:51] <tandoori> i can dig that
[15:30:19] <Malinuss> It's a pretty important part of 8-bit avr programming haha.. actually the most important one
[15:30:52] <Malinuss> you don't call any functions in the mcu, you just change values of some registers and the mcu does stuff ;D
[15:30:52] <tandoori> hey im getting there
[15:31:15] <tandoori> but the stuff in AVRLib are definitely functions :-P
[15:31:58] <Malinuss> well of course there are functions. changing a value of a register just isn't :)
[15:33:05] <Malinuss> abcminiuser, would it ever be possible for 8-bit mcu's ALU to handle floats?
[15:33:27] <Malinuss> or would that need a complete architecture change?
[15:33:33] <Malinuss> *require
[15:33:42] <abcminiuser> Floating point operations can be jammed into almost anything depending on how you're willing to do it
[15:34:06] <abcminiuser> Essentially you can just HW implement the current software routines as an instruction for example
[15:34:22] <Malinuss> hmm
[15:34:23] <Malinuss> okay
[15:39:19] <froggyman> A friend of mine thinks he may have applied 12V to his AVR (arduino uno/328p) and killed it. When I try to set fuses/upload a new bootloader to it, I get a device signature of 0xFF FF FF... Does this mean that it's dead and not recoverable?
[15:40:08] <Malinuss> I thought that the arduino uno had some kind of voltage reulator?
[15:40:28] <Malinuss> Input Voltage (recommended) 7-12V
[15:40:33] <Malinuss> Input Voltage (limits) 6-20V
[15:41:03] <froggyman> Malinuss: yep, it does. pretty sure he applied it to the 5V pin on the arduino (that would get connected straight to power on the uno)
[15:42:57] <froggyman> hmm.. and it gets quite warm when power is applied to it now
[15:50:01] * froggyman is going with "he done fucked up"
[15:52:04] <Grievre> Malinuss: the input side of the regulator is attached only to the barrel jack
[15:52:09] <Grievre> and maybe the USB port as well?
[15:52:19] <Grievre> the 5V pin on the power header is connected directly to the chip
[15:52:43] <Grievre> froggyman: yep, you dun blew it
[15:52:57] <Malinuss> I ee
[15:52:59] <Malinuss> *see
[15:56:00] <froggyman> Grievre: What a shame
[15:58:35] <Malinuss> RIP arduino
[15:59:09] <theBear> hmmm, someone done effed somethin
[15:59:17] <OndraSter> eh
[15:59:29] <OndraSter> did it take the FT232RL with it, too?
[16:03:18] <GuShH_Lap> DEATH TO ARDUINOS!!
[16:03:21] * GuShH_Lap charges
[16:04:02] <specing> dieduino
[16:05:08] <OndraSter> hahaha
[16:06:00] <Steffann> tarduino.cc
[16:06:47] <OndraSter> no posts :(
[16:12:20] <froggyman> OndraSter: nah. Just the atmega328
[16:12:38] <froggyman> of which I have a few laying around from previous orders, and free samples from atmel
[16:12:55] <froggyman> Charged him $5 for it too :D
[16:13:55] * GuShH_Lap wonders if theBear could offer him a beer
[16:16:03] <theBear> maybe if you were here, but i can't really afford it
[16:17:24] * OndraSter wonders if theBear could offer him a bear
[16:18:17] * specing wonders if theBear could offer him a beer
[16:21:36] <theBear> wtf ? you people got jobs !
[16:21:46] <Steffanx> It's 23:08 ..
[16:21:59] <theBear> i'll take a video next time i limp up to the bottleshop and then see how you feel about taking my beer
[16:22:10] <Steffanx> The horror
[16:22:19] <theBear> i can't even buy in bulk anymore unless i got a lift, can't carry it, and if i could i'm on strict orders not to :)
[16:22:38] <Steffanx> moonshiner ..
[16:24:39] <theBear> heh
[16:25:21] <theBear> reminds me, gotta clean out that tub on the back porch and get something going, just beer i think, it's only plastic, and while i learned a LOT about moonshinin' recently, i think it'd be a big hassle to do in suburbian flat land
[16:29:39] <froggyman> specing: come by me and i can get you a beer
[16:29:59] <theBear> the lectronic cat just gave me a beer in the other channel <grin>
[16:30:13] * froggyman throws http://www.explosm.net/comics/3068/ at the channel
[16:32:25] <creep> the best area51 acrobatics i found yet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTm4waOzKhk
[16:32:42] <theBear> froggyman, heh
[16:34:49] <creep> old, but cool, did you see this ? ;) RcSuperhero vertical take off http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1F1OpRxY-k Flying People in New York City http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcDN409ZBv4 a flying broomstick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjHs6_gdkus
[16:37:39] <OndraSter> abcminiuser, have you tried the CRC module on xmega?
[16:38:22] <abcminiuser> Not personally
[16:38:30] <OndraSter> it gives me always different result
[16:38:33] <OndraSter> unless I reset whole chip
[16:38:34] <OndraSter> and I have no idea why
[16:38:38] <OndraSter> I am issuing RESET0
[16:38:39] <abcminiuser> Hrm, code?
[16:38:43] <theBear> heh, not very useful crc then <grin>
[16:38:55] <OndraSter> CRC.CTRL = CRC_RESET0_bm | CRC_SOURCE_IO_gc;
[16:39:03] <OndraSter> then for every data
[16:39:04] <OndraSter> CRC.DATAIN = Data;
[16:39:11] <OndraSter> and to read the result
[16:39:12] <OndraSter> CRC.STATUS |= CRC_BUSY_bm;
[16:39:12] <OndraSter> return CRC.CHECKSUM0 | (CRC.CHECKSUM1 << 8);
[16:39:54] <OndraSter> I am issuing the reset before every "cycle" of the data
[16:40:27] <OndraSter> oh
[16:40:33] <OndraSter> #define CRC_RESET0_bm (1<<6) /* Reset bit 0 mask. */
[16:40:36] <OndraSter> #define CRC_RESET1_bm (1<<7) /* Reset bit 1 mask. */
[16:40:54] <OndraSter> CRC_RESET0_bm should be (10 << 7)
[16:40:57] <OndraSter> 0b10 << 7
[16:41:04] <OndraSter> and CRC_RESET1_bm should be 11 << 7
[16:41:06] <OndraSter> ..?!
[16:41:21] <OndraSter> wait
[16:41:26] <OndraSter> ignore me
[16:41:28] <OndraSter> it is getting late :)
[16:41:51] <OndraSter> either way, there is missing CRC_RESET0_gc and CRC_RESET1_gc*
[16:42:02] <OndraSter> those are the ones that were supposed to be 10 << 7 or 11 << 7
[16:42:07] <OndraSter> << 6
[16:45:13] <OndraSter> now it is giving me the result of 00
[16:45:17] <OndraSter> which I don't think is correct :D
[16:45:38] <abcminiuser> Pasebin your code
[16:47:04] <OndraSter> CRC_RESET_RESET0_gc
[16:47:06] <OndraSter> it was not that hard
[16:47:25] <OndraSter> I am having issues reading the datasheet actually
[16:49:05] <OndraSter> http://pastebin.com/qMAKrt4X
[16:53:56] <OndraSter> ah
[16:54:00] <OndraSter> just read something
[16:54:02] <OndraSter> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=126727
[16:54:05] <OndraSter> "Try setting the reset bit and the source bit separately in case the reset bit clears the source bit as well."
[16:56:12] <OndraSter> YES
[16:56:13] <OndraSter> it works now
[16:56:19] <OndraSter> thanks mojo-chan!
[16:56:43] <OndraSter> the RESET also clears out the SOURCE bits
[16:57:14] <OndraSter> woohoo
[16:57:14] <OndraSter> CMD_PAGE. Fetched successfuly.
[16:57:15] <OndraSter> Page Number: 30 31 Part: 32 CRC16: 33 34 Expected: 54 4E
[16:57:15] <OndraSter> CMD_PAGE. CRC fail.
[17:33:07] <Tom_itx> OndraSter is on it tonight
[17:34:51] <OndraSter> yes
[17:34:54] <OndraSter> I'M ON A ROLL
[17:35:36] <OndraSter> I shouldn't go to sleep in the next few days!
[17:36:12] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, what's up with you HP? It's very slow? weekend trafic?
[17:36:27] <slidercrank> OndraSter, put tags on your bed to prevent you from going to bed:)
[17:36:32] <slidercrank> *tacks
[17:37:43] <OndraSter> haha
[17:38:38] <slidercrank> julmae, you make OndraSter laugh. Hardly had you entered when OndraSter burst out laughing
[17:39:23] <OndraSter> slidercrank ate a funny mush today
[17:41:02] <slidercrank> OndraSter, what are you coding?
[17:41:08] <Tom_itx> lemme reset it
[17:41:10] <Tom_itx> hang on
[17:41:50] <slidercrank> oh, fiddling with CRC
[17:44:16] <Tom_itx> that should be better
[17:45:52] <tandoori> so avrdude is the defacto utility used for programming avrs?
[17:45:56] <tandoori> im just curious
[17:46:13] <Tom_itx> that or studio
[17:46:43] <Horologium> avrdude for command line windows and/or linux or mac
[17:46:54] <OndraSter> why is CRC so ... awful to compute?
[17:46:58] <Horologium> atmel studio for windows.
[17:47:25] <tandoori> huh. interesting
[17:48:21] <Horologium> there are some others out there but avrdude seems to be the most developed right now.
[17:48:34] <Horologium> and it works with a plethora of programmers, some that atmel studio doesn't do even.
[17:48:52] <tandoori> heh nice
[17:50:55] <Malinuss> tandoori, http://i.imgur.com/iQYs0.png
[17:53:40] <Tom_itx> OndraSter_
[17:53:44] <OndraSter_> Tom_itx, ?
[17:53:45] <Tom_itx> you need a crc routine?
[17:53:48] <OndraSter_> my internet sucks
[17:53:52] <OndraSter_> I have got one
[17:54:01] <tandoori> Malinuss: thats pretty cool
[17:54:09] <Tom_itx> crc16 crc-ccitt
[17:54:22] <OndraSter_> yes, that one
[17:54:24] <OndraSter_> I have got
[17:54:35] <Tom_itx> mine's better
[17:54:36] <Tom_itx> :)
[17:54:46] <OndraSter_> heh
[17:54:49] <OndraSter_> is it in C#?
[17:54:56] <Tom_itx> of course
[17:54:57] <OndraSter_> I was looking for the PC side one
[17:55:03] <Tom_itx> no c
[17:55:11] <OndraSter_> I don't need it in C
[17:55:16] <OndraSter_> on the device I am using hardware one!
[17:55:29] <Tom_itx> how is C different than C#?
[17:55:34] <OndraSter_> by far
[17:55:46] <OndraSter_> C# = .NET
[17:55:47] <Tom_itx> just another friggin language
[17:55:53] <OndraSter_> haha
[17:55:58] <specing> Isn't C# some garbage-collected crap?
[17:56:27] <OndraSter_> it is managed language with garbage collector, yes
[17:56:36] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, did you etch your atmega32u2 pcb yourself?
[17:56:37] <OndraSter_> it is not Java though
[17:56:39] <OndraSter_> so it is better.
[17:56:43] <Tom_itx> no
[17:56:55] <Tom_itx> china helped me
[17:57:00] <Malinuss> but you did solder it, right?
[17:57:05] <Tom_itx> of course
[17:57:20] <specing> Tom_itx is made in China :D
[17:57:29] <Tom_itx> no way. that's CapnKernel
[17:58:53] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, you left off the blinky led on the end of your flow chart
[17:58:56] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, do you just use the ink-transfer method?
[17:59:12] <Tom_itx> i used laser toner transfer on the ones i did myself
[17:59:21] <CapnKernel> Hi
[17:59:28] <hackvana> Or rather, Hi
[17:59:37] <Tom_itx> someone ring your bell?
[17:59:44] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, you think it would be impossible to do with normal (not laser) printer? or is the ink to much "soaked in"?
[17:59:59] <Tom_itx> i think it requires the toner
[18:00:08] <Tom_itx> the etchant may disolve other inks
[18:00:12] <Horologium> Malinuss, the ink in an inkjet wouldn't transfer....it is just water based ink.
[18:00:28] <Horologium> toner from a laser printer is plastic that can be remelted so it sticks to the board.
[18:00:34] <Malinuss> ah
[18:00:48] <CapnKernel> Tom_itx: Yeah, some bugger with the initials TL :-)
[18:00:53] <Malinuss> Horologium, I see. I have yet no ben abel to find other methods, are there any?
[18:01:06] <Horologium> most laser printers use powdered pvc for their toner....xerox uses polyester.
[18:01:08] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, ink would not work for UV either
[18:01:19] <OndraSter_> you need laser printer for that too
[18:01:22] <CapnKernel> There's a yahoo mailing list for people experimenting with printing PCBs using inkjet
[18:01:24] <OndraSter_> ink passes UV
[18:01:32] <OndraSter_> or something like that
[18:01:35] <CapnKernel> Basically, you have to use pigment-based inks, not dye-based inks
[18:01:46] <Horologium> CapnKernel, yes, they use a metallic/copper ink.
[18:02:01] <Horologium> and print the circuit directly rather than etching.
[18:02:06] <CapnKernel> Not with the group I'm thinking of
[18:02:07] <Horologium> at least the ones I've followed do.
[18:02:27] <Malinuss> so my only option is to a) order pre-made pcb b) get my hands on a laser-printer ?
[18:02:31] <Malinuss> *s are
[18:02:43] <Horologium> I've experimented with printing toner directly to the copper clad too with some success..
[18:02:46] <OndraSter_> laser printers are a bi.ch too - they have got many issues :(
[18:02:49] <Horologium> OPC drums don't like it much.
[18:02:55] <CapnKernel> CapnKernel==hackvana
[18:03:09] <OndraSter_> CapnKernel, weren't you going to sleep last time I saw you on #hackvana?
[18:03:13] <Horologium> the one printer I tried with a ceramic drum worked great for half a dozen prints then the drum got fucked.
[18:03:19] <hackvana> Malinuss: I'll happily take your order
[18:03:22] <OndraSter_> hehe
[18:03:36] <hackvana> OndraSter_: 10:50am here, I'm going to the Canberra hackerspace soon
[18:03:41] <OndraSter_> oh
[18:03:55] <Malinuss> hackvana, what is the pricing for a one-sided pcb + where are you?
[18:04:04] <Malinuss> let's say 10x10 cm
[18:04:04] <Tom_itx> outrageous
[18:04:05] <Horologium> my current method is thermal wax transfer but the printer I have here for that has crap resolution.
[18:04:16] <hackvana> All my boards are double sided double solder mask, double silkscreen
[18:04:27] <Malinuss> I see
[18:04:36] <hackvana> And 100% e-test, with slots and rounded corners no problem
[18:04:38] <Tom_itx> you can peel the back side off if you wish :)
[18:04:48] <hackvana> Let's go PM
[18:04:55] <Tom_itx> aww
[18:05:31] <specing> hackvana always takes it to PM when things start getting "hot"
[18:05:38] <Tom_itx> like a hot date
[18:07:34] <hackvana> I can hot date right in front of you if you like, just didn't want to spam you
[18:07:58] <Tom_itx> naw, get a room already ...
[18:09:13] <hackvana> Thought you'd say that :-)
[18:14:50] <hackvana> Horologium: This is the group I was thinking of: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Inkjet_PCB_Construction/
[18:21:21] <Malinuss> hackvana, so it is possible?
[18:21:42] <hackvana> Malinuss: What is "it"?
[18:22:04] <Malinuss> hackvana, to use a "normal" (not laser) printer to "print" PCB's?
[18:22:44] <hackvana> Is it possible to print PCBs with an inkjet printer? Yes, as that group shows. But you need to print using pigments, not dyes.
[18:23:14] <hackvana> Read this: http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
[18:23:56] <Malinuss> wow, I think it would be easier to simply buy a old laser-printer
[18:26:00] <hackvana> I make circuit boards at home using the UV/pre-sensitised board technique. You can read about it in my blog: http://capnstech.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/playpause-making-pcbs-at-home.html
[18:26:23] <hackvana> (Note that the boards I provide commercially are not made like this! They are made in state of the art PCB fabs)
[18:26:42] <hackvana> With the UV/pre-sensitised board technique, I can have boards made in an hour.
[18:27:32] <Malinuss> how did you print the circuit and get it on the board?
[18:27:41] <hackvana> Did you read the article?
[18:28:12] <Malinuss> sorry - not yet :)
[18:28:17] <hackvana> It
[18:28:21] <hackvana> It's all in the article
[18:29:06] <Tom_itx> you don't make all them yourself!?!
[18:31:28] <Malinuss> hackvana, but can you use that techince with incjet?
[18:31:44] <hackvana> Tom_itx: When I'm in Australia and want to cook up a quick board at home, I use UV/presensitised board.
[18:32:09] <hackvana> But the boards people order from me are done in state-of-the-art fabs
[18:32:27] <Malinuss> hackvana, because obviously you use laserprinter (toner) - so is it possible with a inkjet (normal printer)?
[18:32:47] <hackvana> Malinuss: It depends on whether the ink you print with the inkjet printer passes UV light or not
[18:32:58] <hackvana> Also, whether the ink is dense enough to block all of the UV.
[18:33:16] <hackvana> Toner from the laser printer is a physical barrier to the UV
[18:33:35] <Malinuss> yeah I get that... wonder if it's dense enough then
[18:33:44] <hackvana> I suspect the answer is "no", but feel free to try and find out!
[18:33:49] <Malinuss> and if it blocks uv at all
[18:33:53] <hackvana> Yes
[18:34:29] <hackvana> I have to go, as my battery is just about flat and I have to get out of here anyway.
[18:35:06] <hackvana> About my boards: http://tinyurl.com/hvpcbfaq
[18:35:08] <Malinuss> I'm going too. night
[18:35:11] <hackvana> Bye for now!
[18:39:12] <Tom_itx> does linux have an editor similar to PN where you can add batch commands to a menu?
[18:39:30] <Tom_itx> to run the makefile from within the editor
[19:02:08] <theBear> i'm sure many can do it, you want text or windows for a start ?
[19:02:46] <creep> http://www.linux-host.org/energy/lifter4.htm The Transdimensional Technologies web site is gone :(
[19:03:13] <creep> who will develop transdimentional traveling devices now ?
[19:03:39] <Tom_itx> scottie beamed them up
[19:05:26] <Tom_itx> theBear, i'm using ubuntu
[19:05:34] <Tom_itx> on that one anyway
[19:06:33] <theBear> i mean, you want a cmdline editor that does this, or one that runs in xwindows
[19:07:10] <Tom_itx> windows
[19:07:14] <Tom_itx> i suppose
[19:07:49] <Tom_itx> using gedit right now
[19:08:52] <Tom_itx> i see there's an 'external tools' add in i can get for it
[19:08:59] <theBear> mmm, i've quite enjoyed kdevelop in the past, i ignore most of the fancy stuff, but if i'm not confused it's got little 'macros' like you describe, syntax highlighting, maybe line numbers if you like them, and i'm pretty sure it's the one that can run a little cmdline in a little section down the bottom so you could perhaps have a serial monitor or just type commands etc etc
[19:09:09] <theBear> but it is probably overkill unless you like that other stuff
[19:09:52] <theBear> also a hassle if you don't got other k-apps and need to install a ton of deps/libs JUST for that :)
[19:10:22] <theBear> probably does much more than i described, but i'm only interested in slight-fancy text editing and maybe some handy stuff like you wanted in the first place
[19:10:52] <theBear> played with blufish a few years back too, similar kinda concept, bit more in depth with the 'fancy' stuff it can do if yer into assisted programming :)
[19:12:30] <creep> Tom_itx<< what would you like to accomplish ?
[19:12:56] <theBear> i used to be quite fond of a simple one (gedit/notepad style)... i THINK it was nedit, if it still exists
[19:13:11] <creep> i like geany for coding
[19:13:18] <theBear> creep, he just wants to be able to 'run a command' easily from within a basic text editor
[19:13:42] <theBear> Tom_itx, on the other hand, you could always setup some hotkeys in your winmanager, like alt-fblah, that would work anywhere
[19:13:47] <creep> well some linux guys like vim
[19:13:54] <creep> that is text mode
[19:14:02] <creep> highly customizable
[19:14:03] <theBear> a basic gui text editor
[19:14:17] <Tom_itx> theBear, i could if i were linux savvy
[19:14:31] <theBear> or maybe he doesn't care, he might like vi* ... i don't :)
[19:14:42] <theBear> Tom_itx, nah, i can't do it the linux-savvy way, it's in menus these days :)
[19:15:16] <Tom_itx> just want to execute makefile sections like make all, make clean and program
[19:15:29] <creep> geany ca ndo that
[19:15:39] <creep> i press f9 to compile and f5 to run
[19:16:04] <creep> (well i guess vim can do that too)
[19:17:26] <creep> but if you have sources you can hack them if you want
[19:17:37] <theBear> hmm, bit noisy in electronics, i try you guys <grin> i asked earlier about some transformer basics, i got current*turns = what goes 'into/outof' a core/transforrmer/whatever which is cool.... i assume in the same way inductance (assuming all else is equal) of X windings on Y core, is not influenced by cable thickness assuming the same current is passing thru it ?
[19:18:33] <Tom_itx> theBear, http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/
[19:18:43] <Tom_itx> all you ever wanted to know and more
[19:18:44] <theBear> Tom_itx, you ever seen a vi(*) kinda editor ? it's kinda, i forget what it's even called, i wanna say non-linear-text-editor... it's all about commands and macros and things that i could never ever remember, but a smart guy like you might like it
[19:18:53] <creep> "cable thickness" influences ohmic losses and skin losses only
[19:19:15] <theBear> hmmm, thanks i guess, hopefully i can read it quick enough before i lose momentum :)
[19:19:39] <theBear> creep, cool, that gets me one step closer, been half-assing this subject for a few months now tho, i should read the real link a little
[19:20:15] <creep> theBear<< your input output characteristics will depend on mode of operation, what kind of converter you are building
[19:21:05] <creep> a forward converter will have N1/N2 turns ratio, a flyback will have L1/L2 induced voltage ratio
[19:21:31] <creep> but inductance is nonlinear in ferrite core
[19:21:40] <creep> and a core can be saturated...
[19:23:11] <Tom_itx> then it gets hot?
[19:23:28] <theBear> heh, so far this guy seems to be talking about good theory, but very opposite of what i'm working on
[19:23:52] <Tom_itx> oh the core winding page?
[19:24:17] <theBear> and you too, i aint doing a switcher, messing with baluns and maybe wideband transformers, at this stage just winding things on the bench and grabbing random little things i've got from switchers and what have you, and measuring and learning...
[19:24:36] <theBear> yeah, but it's a good start, so much on the web is very patchy, it has tiny bits of theory but nothing unifying
[19:24:41] <Tom_itx> theBear, you should ask kat
[19:24:44] <Tom_itx> if you can find her
[19:24:47] <theBear> oh, and saturated core in switcher = looks like a short, fet explodes
[19:25:27] <creep> Tom_itx<< well you'd rather worry about the exponentially increasing current in your power switches :)
[19:25:31] <theBear> the switchers i've been looking at a bit recently at least, work on the drive concept of ALWAYS avoid that saturation point, switch off before it
[19:26:10] <theBear> this page is helping a lot with the bits i don't know, and PROPER explanations of cores etc, but it's all aimed at power stuff, not signal
[19:26:25] <creep> just use current mode and there you go
[19:26:56] <theBear> the twin/complimentary of that page for signal would be heaven
[19:27:07] <Tom_itx> heh
[19:27:52] <theBear> for example i have no idea what kind of inductance i want for either hi freq, or widefreq, tho i assume it's fairly small
[19:28:01] <creep> theBear<< for coupled couls with sinewave drive you most likely got N1/N2 voltage ratios
[19:28:03] <theBear> capacitance is definately best minimized
[19:28:14] <creep> given they share same magnetic field
[19:28:42] <theBear> i aint talking sinewave, one definate practical application is gonna be composite video (pal/ntsc) 'halfassed balancing' baluns
[19:28:52] <creep> that is sinewave
[19:29:02] <theBear> which are of course infinitely more forgiving than the same thing in transformer style
[19:29:04] <theBear> it is ?
[19:29:13] <creep> no mattery if you modulate it with another frequency sinewaves
[19:29:37] <theBear> lotta sharp edges gotta get thru, and if i eventually get up to building non-series/transformer ones, it's gotta pass 50hz-ish sync pulses too
[19:29:46] <theBear> hmmm, ok, i trust you :)
[19:30:20] <creep> :)
[19:30:48] <creep> a square wave can be broken down to sinewaves using Fourier transform too
[19:30:50] <theBear> ooh, some of the associated pages are filling in more too
[19:30:51] <Tom_itx> http://www.pronine.ca/butlf1.htm
[19:31:01] <theBear> i suppose so, that's the whole idea of fourier :)
[19:31:01] <Tom_itx> that was in the same bookmark file
[19:31:32] <theBear> meh, i learned filter topologies 15 years ago, i'm into audio and synths remember :)
[19:32:11] <theBear> would help if i knew a bit higher level maths too, all those greek symbols you learn after highschool
[19:32:33] <theBear> i am getting better with time, learnt some delta math stuff recently, like time-domain
[19:33:13] <theBear> hmmm, maybe i DO want some decent inductance in there :)
[19:36:21] <creep> theBear<< http://aks.rutgers.edu/aksuww/Psych/305WWW/spatialfreq/spatialfreq.htm
[19:36:36] <creep> http://aks.rutgers.edu/aksuww/Psych/305WWW/spatialfreq/sinecombowave.JPG
[19:36:37] <theBear> "Transferring the previous analogy, suppose that your windings produce an MMF of 12 ampere turns and that your magnetic core (your 'load') has a reluctance of two ampere-turns per weber. " woah ! and that's just one of a hundred lines i read like that in the last 5 mins, this is gonna take some time :)
[19:36:59] <theBear> and even i understand that's a 'simple' statement in regards to this stuff :)
[19:37:34] <theBear> creep, thanks, i remember the roughness of that stuff, but a refresher doesn't hurt
[19:37:56] <theBear> oh, i thought that page would be 10 times longer ;) still, pictures are good in times of confusion
[19:38:11] <creep> piece of cake
[19:38:39] <creep> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/researchanddevelopment/2010/11/mozilla-audio-data-api.shtml
[19:38:46] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier_analysis
[19:41:49] <tandoori> where is global.h located?
[19:41:50] <theBear> that's cool, for now coils are the focus, specifically how they are likely to behave at various freqs, and transfer 'efficiency' i suppose, and stuff like that
[19:41:56] <tandoori> i can't find it
[19:42:42] <theBear> and a 2nd coffee won't hurt either
[19:46:49] <theBear> eek ! that forecast wasn't wrong, at this rate 40 wouldn't surprise me, that hot wind at the front door was brutal, and it's only 9:30
[19:47:09] <theBear> already 30 :(
[19:51:11] <Grievre> why do you have to manually pull up the reset pin
[19:51:45] <Tom_itx> because
[19:53:29] <theBear> that's just kinda how cpus (and therefore micros) have always worked
[19:54:18] <creep> theBear<< depends on frequency, but a coil has a parasitic capacitance, i think you was thinking about this
[19:54:20] <Tom_itx> it keeps that little chinese girl making all those resistors in a job
[19:54:50] <creep> for example the magnetron has resonant cavities tuned to 2450MHz
[19:55:43] <theBear> capacitance is part of it, i'm also kinda interested in the theory of how rf-baluns and those little 75-300r tv coils can get away with maybe 5-20 turns
[19:56:23] <theBear> i understand magnetrons, they're EASY compared to coil theory in a holistic/all encompassing sense :)
[19:58:12] <theBear> a lot of understanding magnetrons is due to my extensive audio theory and holistic/all encompassing understanding ofhow that stuff translates to ANY wave based 'stuff'
[20:00:24] * Casper throws a fully charged flash cap in tandoori's pants
[20:01:25] <tandoori> lol
[20:02:45] <Casper> o/
[20:06:37] <theBear> oooh, one last weird question re: transformers and stuff.... single coil on a core makes an inductor, (with my fresh knowledge helping here) that means yer 'charging' the core with magnetism, which in an inductor will tend to come back out when loaded/not being charged/driven more.... if you have a 2nd coil on that core, like a basic transformer, loading the 2nd coil err, reduces the flux in the core ? or err, hmmm, i think i just went past my new theory
[20:06:37] <theBear> and got lost
[20:06:49] <theBear> therefore that isn't really a question
[20:10:17] <theBear> hmmm, i think inductor theory will cover this half-question in my head... single inductor, charge it up, let it go you get a ignition coil kinda spring reaction, but load it, you get a err, hmmm, like a boost converter i guess, which is err, hmmm.... need more coffee... if my ramblings interrupt anything important or generally bother anyone, just tell me to quiet .... just seems to flow easier if i pretend/imagine i'm talking to someone :)
[20:12:25] <OndraSter_> I look for error in my code that way
[20:12:27] <theBear> hmm.... inductor likes to resist change in current, parallel inductor likes to short err, hi freqs? that sounds more like a cap
[20:13:21] <theBear> anyone on that final point ? like say r-l filter behaviour (instead of a r-c filter, same arrangement, in that order, first element series, 2nd parallel)
[20:14:25] <theBear> if inductor dislikes changes in current, erg, maybe i should use my favourite toy of the week, mr circuitlab... better than rambling on and on here
[20:16:02] <theBear> wonder if it does transformer/coupled inductors too... hmm... never tried to simulate with a spectrum graph output.... i wonder
[20:18:19] <theBear> anyone know if simulating a transistor or fet based noise-source works as a general rule ?
[21:29:24] <tandoori> when i send a clock pulse to a pin, do i have to wait any particular amount of time between setting it high and low again?
[21:30:37] <Tom_itx> depends what the application requires
[21:30:47] <Tom_itx> in theory, no
[21:31:52] <Tom_itx> the data sheet will enlighten you on switching times
[21:41:32] <creep> theBear<< you have 2 couls near each other, they have an "invisible" magnetic coupling between them
[21:42:37] <creep> so, current changes in one coil affects the other coil via the magnetic coupling effect
[21:43:48] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductance #coupled inductors
[21:47:22] <creep> theBear<< your problem is, you didn't start with the basics
[21:47:36] <creep> capacitance, inductance
[21:48:44] <creep> i hate to touch something i don't know, like using an opamp without knowing how it works
[22:05:35] <theBear> i started with the basics, i just used transformers for too long without applying them, and now it's hard to go and fill in the gap
[22:05:47] <theBear> also heavy medication and mild drunkenness doesn't help
[22:07:05] <theBear> and moving things from always 50/60hz and occasionally audio freq up to 60 thru several meg in one leap is a big one too
[22:07:24] <theBear> my scope wants some tuning too, not much, just a little
[22:09:58] <theBear> stupid wiki, there's 1 useful sentence there, but those maths are 10 times more incomprehensible to me than the last page that is really useful
[23:06:05] <CoolBear> theBear: Did you know that when cutting a track to solder in a capacitor in series it is important to cut the right track? *sigh*
[23:11:57] <theBear> heh, yeah, i knew that one
[23:12:51] <CoolBear> Took me a good while to figure out why it was faling horribly...
[23:13:06] <CoolBear> s/faling/failing/
[23:13:40] <theBear> :(
[23:14:07] <CoolBear> So did you get your icecream?
[23:24:59] <jadew> did you know that when cutting a track, it's important to keep the cutter steady in order not to cut several tracks?
[23:26:41] <jadew> also, drilling the last hole in a PCB is a critical move, somehow that last hole manages to get the PCB shaking and you end up shaving a few surounding pads / tracks
[23:27:08] <tzanger> jadew: sharp blade an font try to slice. just cut down an "wiggle" the blade to sever the track
[23:27:14] <jadew> best ending after several hours of preparation, ironing, etching, scrubbing, drilling
[23:27:39] <jadew> tzanger, good idea
[23:27:47] <tzanger> then do it again a little further along, then take your soldering iron and heat the bit you're going to remove. it comes right off
[23:28:17] <jadew> tzanger, gonna try it, however now I've got pretty good with the cutter
[23:29:13] <jadew> I forgot some copper under a smd chip once, I took that off with the cutter and even left some ground tracks in there (perfectly shaped)
[23:30:04] <tzanger> nice
[23:31:06] <Tom_itx> jadew, does the 109 bootloader come up with a terminal prompt?
[23:31:23] <Tom_itx> or just wait for a response from avrdude...
[23:31:50] <jadew> Tom_itx, no
[23:32:00] <jadew> oh wait
[23:32:14] <jadew> I think you can actually use the terminal to play with it
[23:32:27] <jadew> the commands are letters
[23:32:48] <jadew> you should check the ap note, I think they're listed in there
[23:35:36] <Tom_itx> in the table...
[23:35:44] <Tom_itx> quite a few commands there
[23:36:12] <jadew> yeah, I don't think you care about most of them tho
[23:36:52] <Tom_itx> just to verify it is working mostly
[23:37:00] <jadew> yeah
[23:37:23] <jadew> you can however check that with avrdude :P
[23:37:34] <Tom_itx> i made device.h for several parts i may try
[23:37:43] <Tom_itx> 32 168 328 and 2560
[23:38:01] <jadew> nice
[23:38:08] <jadew> good idea
[23:38:21] <Tom_itx> and made note of the configuration of each
[23:38:33] <Tom_itx> in the makefile