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[00:55:54] <rue_bed> theBear, grow a pig?
[01:50:08] <theBear> hehe, that some hoser euphamism eh rue ? :)
[08:34:05] <rue_bed> bacon
[08:35:28] <DagoRed> lettuce
[08:35:42] <RikusW> jerky
[08:36:33] <DagoRed> I'm liking where this sandwich is going.
[08:40:07] <Richard_Cavell> Bacon, lettuce, tomato is the greatest thing ever invented in the United States
[08:41:17] <theBear> all day ! all over irc, all i hear is ham and bacon and smoking stuff (smokehouse style of course)
[08:41:25] <theBear> on a sesame sead bun ?
[08:41:29] <theBear> seed
[08:41:48] <tzanger> BLT is very good yes
[14:01:29] <Guest38365> are multicores cpus more energy efficient than any microcontroller?
[14:02:23] <OndraSter> what kind of question that is?!
[14:02:39] <damjan> efficient like more work done per W?
[14:02:49] <damjan> probaly yes
[14:02:57] <Guest38365> if you have computation intensive task multicore cpus can generate the result in a shorter time...and sleep longer
[14:03:21] <Guest38365> energy efficiency is Watt * sec = jouse?
[14:03:23] <Guest38365> joule
[14:03:48] <damjan> now, the sleep of a big CPU still spends more energy than a microcontroller :)
[14:05:01] <Guest38365> think about small multicore cpus :D
[14:05:13] <Guest38365> or multicore microcontroller
[14:06:10] <Amadiro> Guest38365, they can be in certain cases, but its mostly a question of how much power you need
[14:06:27] <Amadiro> proper CPUs are incredibly more powerful than MCUs, and if you want to be power-efficient, you need to take full advantage of their features
[14:06:53] <Guest38365> you talk about energy efficiency?
[14:06:59] <Amadiro> Guest38365, check out the energy micro ARM chips for some sort of compromise, they have relatively high-powered models with floating-point unit and such, but support something like 6 different sleep states and such
[14:07:00] <Amadiro> yes
[14:07:18] <Guest38365> are they multicore?
[14:07:24] <Amadiro> I don't think so
[14:07:37] <Amadiro> they are still in microcontroller-territory
[14:08:18] <Amadiro> no, looks like even the biggest one is still single-core
[14:08:23] <Guest38365> what about arm multicores?
[14:08:34] <Amadiro> you might be able to find those in SoCs
[14:08:44] <Amadiro> but an ARM cpu might not be the right choice for your task anyway
[14:09:01] <Amadiro> i.e. maybe what you want to do can be accomplished much more efficiently using some-or-other non-CPU chip or GPU
[14:09:03] <Guest38365> how about Parallax Propeller?
[14:09:28] <Amadiro> I haven't used them personally, but I don't think they are anywhere near the performance of even a very small real CPU
[14:11:07] <Guest38365> but not near the energy efficiency of an avr?
[14:11:43] <Amadiro> I have no clue
[14:11:57] <Amadiro> as I said, energy efficiency not only depends on the chip you use, but also on what you want to do with it
[14:12:17] <Amadiro> if you want to do some DSP-heavy work, you'll get much more energy efficiency out of a DSP-"enabled" chip than a normal CPU, for instance
[14:17:32] <Guest38365> 20 MIPS per cog, 160 MIPS total with all cogs
[14:17:32] <Guest38365> running
[14:18:45] <Guest38365> Total power dissipation 1 W
[16:08:06] <tandoori> yay
[16:08:08] <tandoori> i got it
[16:39:23] <Malinuss> tandoori, got what? How are your baby steps into avr going btw. :) ?
[16:40:30] <tandoori> Malinuss: i dont understand about these avrs
[16:40:48] <Malinuss> what do you not understand ;D?
[16:40:49] <tandoori> something about moisture sensitive devices, calculated shelf life and whatnot
[16:41:04] <Malinuss> hehe, reading the datasheet, are we? Good
[16:41:42] <tandoori> so these mcus will go bad after a while?
[16:43:05] <tandoori> ?
[16:45:28] <yunta> ah, good packaging :)
[16:45:49] <Tom_itx> just bake em off and you're fine
[16:45:56] <Malinuss> tandoori, nothing to worry about... I think hehe. where are you reading about them?
[16:46:20] <Tom_itx> tandoori, they'll go bad long after we're gone
[16:46:38] <tandoori> oh..then whats all this nonsense about shelf life?
[16:46:54] <Tom_itx> what's nonsense about half life?
[16:47:02] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, how does that work btw. I once had a graphic card that didn't work anymore. I gave it ~15min at ~150C and it was good again (for over a year, then I had to do it again)....
[16:47:05] <Tom_itx> i don't go around worrying about that either
[16:47:51] <yunta> tandoori: if you're not going to reflow, just ignore it
[16:58:35] <Malinuss> tandoori, made any cool blinking led's yet :)?
[17:00:43] <tandoori> huh?
[17:00:55] <tandoori> no i havent even started, i just received my stuff today
[17:07:22] <tandoori> Malinuss: talk to me. tell me about these fuses that can brick my mcu
[17:07:49] <Malinuss> why would you even want to change the fuses?
[17:09:54] <tandoori> i dont know i was just reading some of the tutorials
[17:10:23] <tandoori> and someone told me that avrdude can be a bit wonky or something
[17:11:33] <Malinuss> don't change the fuses - don't worry about it ;)
[17:11:50] <tandoori> what do the fuses do?
[17:11:55] <tandoori> make it write once?
[17:15:39] <Malinuss> tandoori, yeah, stuff like making it not repogrammable... enable JTAG.. or the clock speed. Look in the datasheet I can't remember what more
[17:18:46] <tandoori> ah okay
[17:19:01] <tandoori> did i tell you what i got for circiut dsign and chip programming?
[17:19:15] <tandoori> its so awesome and i am so happy its available
[17:20:53] <Malinuss> what?
[17:21:38] <tandoori> samsung ATIV 500T windows 8 tablet
[17:22:45] <tandoori> has plenty of processing power for both diptrace and atmel studio
[17:27:18] <tandoori> it comes with a nice wacom stylus too
[17:31:45] <specing> tablets are shit for productivity
[17:32:16] <specing> even more so if it comes with windows on it
[17:32:23] <specing> totaly unproductive.
[17:32:52] <specing> You can't even install a proper unix on it due to secureboot
[17:33:10] <Tom_itx> tandoori,
http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[17:33:25] <Tom_itx> tandoori,
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[17:33:41] <tandoori> specing: thats your opinion
[17:33:59] <specing> No, those are the hard facts
[17:34:05] <tandoori> you must have sausage fingers. i dont. I think tablet work is excellent. especially with ncluded stylus
[17:34:06] <Tom_itx> tandoori what avr's did you get?
[17:34:14] <tandoori> um, no they arent, they are your opinion
[17:34:16] <specing> I own two tablets myself and I know how "usefull" they are
[17:34:26] <tandoori> still, your opion.
[17:34:55] <tandoori> jsut because you cant make it work for you, doesn't mean it will be unproductive for everyone
[17:35:24] <tandoori> you are probably asking it to do too much, maybe trying to compare it to a desktop or laptop, which you really shouldnt do
[17:36:28] <Tom_itx> tandoori, get an led blinking...
[17:37:36] <tandoori> Tom_itx: heh wat? my project will do a little more than that
[17:38:04] <Tom_itx> like what?
[17:38:10] <Tom_itx> i thought you were a noob
[17:38:53] <specing> He will communicate with teh satelites directly!
[17:39:03] <Tom_itx> ahh ok
[17:39:04] <specing> .... somehow.
[17:39:04] <tandoori> oh, i am, but i have a better understanding of electronics than just getting a led to blink.
[17:39:23] <Tom_itx> but if you skip steps along the way it will bite you
[17:41:23] <tandoori> huh? this just has switches and leds
[17:41:28] <tandoori> nothing too spectacular
[17:41:32] <tandoori> oh and a relay
[17:41:49] <Tom_itx> what 'stuff' did you get?
[17:45:00] <tandoori> hmm lets see
[17:46:28] <tandoori> ATTINY261A, ATTINY2313A both in various package types
[17:46:42] <tandoori> some relays, shift registers, etc
[17:48:19] <yunta> expensive lesson
[17:51:02] <bitd> Anyone have a clue why a 3V3 board such as the Arduino Duemilanove might be more susceptible to RFI than say a normal Atmel mcu using only 5v?
[17:52:16] <Tom_itx> 3.3v is closer to the logic threshholds than 5v
[17:52:57] <bitd> Tom_itx, someone explained to me, 3v3 chips no longer use TTL level.
[17:53:20] <bitd> So what does this chip base its I/O threshold on?
[17:53:32] <Tom_itx> it's all in the data sheet for the reading
[17:53:53] <bitd> Good call, haha.
[17:54:27] <bitd> Sometimes the amount of info in those sheets get a bit overwhelming for a newcomer though.
[17:54:31] <Tom_itx> polite way of saying RTFM
[17:54:44] <bitd> Got that.
[17:54:47] <Tom_itx> look at the graphs near the back
[17:55:01] <bitd> Will do, thank you.
[18:00:01] <tandoori> yunta: expensive? those parts were dirt cheap
[18:00:21] <Tom_itx> why did you go with the tiny parts?
[18:02:17] <tandoori> because it didnt make sense to get the more advaned ones
[18:02:23] <yunta> tandoori: those small things with all the peripherals (shifters etc.) tend to be more expensive for me than just a single small xmega
[18:02:26] <tandoori> simple parts for a simple job
[18:02:39] <Tom_itx> so purpose bought
[18:02:45] <tandoori> aye
[18:02:47] <Tom_itx> not just for experimenting
[18:03:08] <tandoori> oh i have megas for experimenting
[18:03:45] <tandoori> but i KNOW that i will want to design various small job type things, where the attiny mcus will shine
[18:04:00] <Tom_itx> get some t10's
[18:04:06] <Tom_itx> and make them shine
[18:04:10] <Tom_itx> i did
[18:04:11] <tandoori> i mean, do you really need a mega for a few leds, switches and a relay? seems silly to me
[18:04:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI1.jpg
[18:05:14] <Tom_itx> anyone use studio 6?
[18:05:21] <Tom_itx> i need some guidance
[18:05:28] <yunta> *so* cute
[18:05:45] <yunta> Tom_itx: weren't you a unix guy?
[18:05:48] * tandoori chuckles
[18:06:11] <Tom_itx> with studio 4 you could add exhisting source files, i can't find where to do that in 6
[18:06:15] <Tom_itx> no i'm not
[18:06:28] <Tom_itx> i don't use studio much either though
[18:06:49] <tandoori> i just started with studio 6
[18:07:13] <Tom_itx> i don't like it
[18:07:30] <Tom_itx> it takes longer to load than it does to compile and download a program
[18:13:00] <Tom_itx> and about every other time i start it, it want's to do an update
[18:13:03] <w|zzy> Tom. right click on your project in the file section, top right
[18:13:19] <w|zzy> you can add existing source files that way.
[18:13:27] <Tom_itx> i will in about an hour after it updates :)
[18:14:02] <Tom_itx> how can i create a blank project with no file?
[18:14:06] <w|zzy> there is a some what useful plugin to create a project from makefile...
[18:14:38] <w|zzy> can't help there. I only ever import my projects when I want to use the debugger.
[18:15:10] <w|zzy> problem with the makefile plugin is it only supports the all and clean targets..
[18:17:28] <Tom_itx> avrdude doesn't work on my pc right now so i use studio for downloading
[18:18:18] <w|zzy> cool. I do like as6 but it does take forever to load.
[18:18:39] <Tom_itx> it's got some nice features but that is not one of them
[18:19:31] <w|zzy> I didn't like the debugging interface as much as as4 at first. it has grown on me and its quite yum
[18:19:56] <w|zzy> I load from a ssd and it still takes half a minute
[18:20:18] <Tom_itx> had any drive failures with ssd?
[18:20:30] <Tom_itx> i got one but don't use it alot
[18:22:54] <w|zzy> only had it 6 months. I.had a couple of lock ups early on but a motherboard bios update sorted that.
[18:23:40] <w|zzy> I don't expect any harddrive to not fail...
[18:32:48] <Tom_itx> gawd, this is gonna take forever
[18:33:08] <w|zzy> slow net?
[18:33:22] <Tom_itx> no, it's updating
[18:35:12] <w|zzy> wow.
[18:36:27] <Tom_itx> by the time it's done i'll have forgotten what i was gonna do
[18:37:01] <w|zzy> write it down :-P
[18:39:31] <Tom_itx> status: copying new files
[18:45:55] <Tom_itx> w|zzy, i need to create a new project first right?
[18:46:23] <Tom_itx> will it import as4 projects?
[18:46:53] <Tom_itx> yeah i see that..
[18:49:15] <w|zzy> it should be able to import a project from as4
[18:50:22] <Tom_itx> how can you create an empty project with no startup file?
[18:50:30] <Tom_itx> it want's to make a blank .c file
[18:50:33] <Tom_itx> i don't want that
[18:51:20] <Tom_itx> and now.. where do i add the files to the project?
[18:52:27] <w|zzy> blog.padman.id.au
[18:52:36] <w|zzy> should be a screen cap of it
[18:53:03] <w|zzy> last screen cap in most recent post.
[18:57:05] <w|zzy> if that what you mean?
[18:58:07] <Tom_itx> in as4 you would right click on the files list on the left
[18:58:15] <Tom_itx> and add source or header files
[18:58:23] <w|zzy> yeah.
[18:58:33] <Tom_itx> where did that go?
[18:59:01] <w|zzy> I don't know.
[18:59:26] <w|zzy> not so I have a computer handy too look. sorry.
[18:59:48] <Tom_itx> np
[19:00:05] <yunta> emacs is good at those things
[19:04:57] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, in the Solution explorer (right side) left click. Add - new item
[19:05:04] <Malinuss> *right click
[19:05:31] <Tom_itx> yeah i found it from the menu as well
[19:05:32] <Tom_itx> thanks
[19:05:35] <Malinuss> np
[19:05:53] <Malinuss> when you create a new project, you can actually just tell it "blank project" or something like that
[19:15:29] <Tom_itx> yay it compiled
[19:15:53] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, what are you working on?
[19:24:25] <Tom_itx> just looking at avr109
[19:41:16] <Tom_itx> mmm as6 works but i'm not overly impressed
[19:41:19] <Tom_itx> it's sure slow
[19:42:09] <Horologium> it is based on visual studio..what do you expect?
[19:42:24] <w|zzy> it's designed for new i7 systems with 32gb of ram and dual ssd
[19:42:48] <OndraSter> bs :P
[19:43:00] <OndraSter> it is running fine on my i5 quadcore, 16GB RAM and single SSD!
[19:43:02] <Tom_itx> i'll admit my system is old but i can do more quicker with PN and a regular makefile
[19:44:45] <Tom_itx> with 16g ram you don't need a ssd :D
[19:45:01] <w|zzy> I have an i7 with 16GB and only open up as6 for debugging. it's so painful to work in.
[19:45:16] <Tom_itx> i can say i looked at it now.
[19:45:17] <w|zzy> normally use sublime text 2
[19:45:47] <w|zzy> if you have a jtag give the debugging a go...
[19:46:00] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, soon to be 24GB RAM :)
[19:46:14] <OndraSter> anyway, gn
