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[00:17:35] <Inz1er> Anybody works with adsb recievers on AVR 8-bit?
[00:29:01] <Inz1er> Anybode here?
[00:29:08] <Inz1er> anybody*
[00:32:42] <Richard_Cavell> hello
[00:32:53] <Richard_Cavell> I just wanted to let you know that at least one person is reading your question
[00:33:02] <Richard_Cavell> If you don't get an answer here, go to avrfreaks.net
[00:34:30] <Inz1er> So, why are they sitting here?
[00:34:36] <Inz1er> What are they doing?
[00:36:03] <Richard_Cavell> I don't know
[00:36:09] <Richard_Cavell> ask them all individually if you really want to know
[00:37:37] <Inz1er> ok
[00:40:31] <Casper> maybe you prefer to not know for some?
[00:42:48] <Inz1er> I prefer to know about reinitialisation of timer1 and starting to count Timer1 on Ext. Interrupt
[00:43:57] <Inz1er> Need to decode Mode-S and Mode-A/C signals
[00:44:25] <Inz1er> freq - 1us for 1 bit
[00:46:06] <Casper> 1MHz signal?
[00:46:49] <Inz1er> Yep
[00:51:30] <Casper> an avr could be not powerfull enought for such speed
[00:53:34] <Inz1er> Quarz Generator 32MHz, and Timer0 interrupt 4MHz
[00:54:10] <Inz1er> Mega8 works without any mistakes
[00:55:44] <Casper> mega8 isn't a 32MHz part
[00:55:59] <Casper> but iirc a 20MHz part
[00:56:19] <Inz1er> With Ext. generator on 32MHz it works
[00:56:37] <Casper> expect issues, like being unable to reflash it one day
[00:58:38] <Inz1er> it is not important
[01:05:30] <Inz1er> If it will working, I will not reflash it
[01:11:12] <Casper> ok, some succeded to run at 48 or I think even 64
[01:11:25] <Casper> but weirdly, the first thing that seems to break is the reflash
[01:11:31] <Casper> which imo is weird
[01:13:13] <Inz1er> attiny2313 20MHz
[01:13:46] <Inz1er> for default with ext clock
[01:18:05] <Inz1er> or atmega328
[01:18:18] <Inz1er> But I thing Attiny better
[01:20:36] <Inz1er> think*
[03:41:54] <abcminiuser> anyone here with an Atmel Gallery account?
[03:42:29] <abcminiuser> Ah never mind, it just hates Firefox
[03:43:28] <Tom_itx> i tried that but dunno what it was or what it did
[03:43:44] <abcminiuser> You can get extensions for Atmel Studio
[03:43:50] <abcminiuser> Like Naggy which is pure amazing
[03:44:02] <abcminiuser> Or the Doxygen one, which isn't
[03:44:02] <Tom_itx> maybe i got it i dunno
[03:44:11] <Tom_itx> you mean loading pages in studio?
[03:44:35] <Tom_itx> i think i downloaded it
[03:44:57] <abcminiuser> You can add in live compiler diagnostic extensions if you download them from the extension manager
[03:45:06] <abcminiuser> I needed one, but I couldn't access the gallery since I'm using a non-public build
[03:45:13] <abcminiuser> And the website version hates my firefox
[03:45:42] <Tom_itx> how do i know i got it :)
[03:45:53] <Tom_itx> i recall loading something...
[03:45:59] <abcminiuser> Inside AS6 open the extension manager
[03:46:05] <Tom_itx> just a sec
[03:46:13] <Tom_itx> takes forever to load
[03:46:16] <abcminiuser> If you ticked the remember box, when you try to download something it should populate the logic
[03:46:17] <abcminiuser> *login
[03:46:24] <abcminiuser> Oh?
[03:46:30] <abcminiuser> 10 secs on my work PC
[03:46:40] <Tom_itx> you got better pc's than i
[03:46:47] <abcminiuser> Doubt it :P
[03:47:06] <Tom_itx> still loading
[03:47:15] <abcminiuser> If you don't use ASF, a quick way to speed up the public build is to uninstall it
[03:47:21] <abcminiuser> You'll lose all the examples but the basic compiler/assembler will work
[03:47:32] <abcminiuser> Next release will be faster and smaller :P
[03:47:52] <OndraSter> oh hey abcminiuser
[03:48:15] <Tom_itx> ok, i tried getting gallery but now it tells me there are new updates and gallery 1.2.2 is it
[03:48:27] <Tom_itx> so i dunno if it ever loaded last time
[03:49:27] <abcminiuser> You haven't used it in a long time then
[03:49:31] <abcminiuser> SWEET, it kinda works
[03:49:35] <Tom_itx> never
[03:49:45] <abcminiuser> The doxygen output is a bit crappy since it doesn't use the LUFA config file
[03:49:46] <abcminiuser> But it works
[03:50:03] <abcminiuser> Happy Dance: ENGAGE
[03:50:34] <Tom_itx> apparently it loaded this time
[03:50:38] <Tom_itx> restarting
[03:50:55] <Tom_itx> i suppose you don't need it now
[03:52:35] <abcminiuser> No, I convinced it to work with Chrome
[03:52:58] <abcminiuser> Pain in the ass, the fact you can't mark an extension as supporting multiple versions of Atmel Studio
[03:53:03] <abcminiuser> That's Microsoft's fault :(
[03:53:05] <Tom_itx> their buttons don't follow their descriptions when you scroll
[03:53:10] <Tom_itx> they should fix that
[03:53:28] <Tom_itx> the 'FREE' thing
[03:54:58] <abcminiuser> Try the latest gallery version
[03:55:02] <abcminiuser> I think that was fixed
[03:55:03] <Tom_itx> so what _is_ 'Naggy'?
[03:55:07] <Tom_itx> i just did
[03:55:25] <abcminiuser> It parses your C code in the background as you type it, and gives you live warnings
[03:55:39] <abcminiuser> Like "you're implicitly casing a pointer to an interger, dumbass"
[03:55:45] <abcminiuser> Very helpful
[03:57:42] <Xark> Ahh, like peer programming. :)
[03:57:58] <Xark> Or pair I guess...
[03:58:11] <Xark> aka "backseat coder".
[03:58:13] <abcminiuser> Ja
[03:58:18] <abcminiuser> It makes life easier
[03:58:34] <Xark> One up on Visual Assist.
[03:58:35] <Tom_itx> if you use studio to write code
[03:58:38] <abcminiuser> What's the latest ASF release in the gallery?
[03:58:45] <abcminiuser> Xark, use both :)
[03:58:58] <Tom_itx> 3.5.1
[03:59:00] <abcminiuser> Damn
[03:59:24] <Tom_itx> see you're telling us about unreleased stuff now :)
[03:59:37] <abcminiuser> No, 3.6 was supposed to have been released
[04:00:01] <Tom_itx> i should call tech support and complain
[04:35:48] <abcminiuser> https://twitter.com/abcminiuser/status/292577573379133440/photo/1
[04:39:38] <Steffanx> Just make sure it doesn't say it is ready for XMEGA too abcminiuser :P
[04:42:27] <abcminiuser> Steffanx, heh
[04:42:59] <abcminiuser> You can create all the demos/projects just like regular AS6 examples
[04:43:06] <abcminiuser> And no makefiles
[05:12:33] <creep> [021241] <OndraSter> the cheap ink clogs the heads < what do you say about squeezing the ink through some microfilter?
[05:14:58] <creep> a hole on an inkjet head can be about 25-50um in diamater right?
[05:15:03] <creep> *diameter
[05:18:11] <OndraSter_> no idea
[05:21:28] <creep> homogenized milk tastes bad, what do you think?
[05:22:30] <OndraSter_> no idea
[05:22:39] <OndraSter_> I don't know what homogenized milk is :)
[05:22:47] <Steffanx> I never had anything else i think, creep
[05:23:02] <Steffanx> *don't like milk (anymore) though
[05:23:43] <creep> OndraSter_<< homogenization breaks up molecules in milk, they do it to make the stuff more uniform
[05:24:21] <Steffanx> It breaks up the molecules in seperate atoms? :P
[05:24:59] <vsync_> that doesn't make any sense
[05:25:44] <Steffanx> You are drunk, you can't think clear.
[05:25:55] <OndraSter_> drunk with power!
[05:26:08] <vsync_> no
[05:26:27] <vsync_> you are swedish. you are unable to think
[05:26:47] <vsync_> or maybe norwegian. which means you're thinking with the brain made of cod
[05:26:59] <Steffanx> or maybe none of them
[05:27:03] <OndraSter_> :P
[05:27:10] <vsync_> then it leaves denmark
[05:27:12] <OndraSter_> Steffanx is not from swedish nor norweigian
[05:27:15] <OndraSter_> nor dernamsk
[05:27:18] <OndraSter_> nor Denmark
[05:27:28] <vsync_> well it's bound to be some gay country!
[05:27:34] <Steffanx> I'm your little brother vsync_
[05:27:40] <Steffanx> So i'm from finnishland
[05:28:04] <OndraSter_> he is lying
[05:28:19] <vsync_> think he's german
[05:28:22] <OndraSter_> no
[05:28:29] <Steffanx> but you're getting warmer
[05:28:32] <vsync_> well tell me
[05:28:40] <creep> Steffanx<< no, just molecules from each other in most cases
[05:28:43] <OndraSter_> haha warmer
[05:28:48] <OndraSter_> of course, he is guessing more to the south
[05:29:03] <Steffanx> Mwah, this is a cold and rainy country :(
[05:29:42] <OndraSter_> do not let vsync_ fool yourself - he is not from the UK either
[05:29:43] <vsync_> Maybe that's why you're always the killjoy
[05:30:07] <Steffanx> Sure sure. Says who?
[05:30:17] <vsync_> says me
[05:30:25] <Steffanx> Oh, true
[05:30:49] <Steffanx> So now we can return to the point where it started: You are drunk, you can't think clear.
[05:30:54] <OndraSter_> vsync_, where is your friend, hsync?
[05:31:11] <Steffanx> They are out of sync, he doesn't know
[05:31:14] <vsync_> he's busy, this vertical shit's way more relaxed
[05:32:08] <vsync_> Steffanx: well, you're obviously from a lousy country, which apparently makes you sad :( and you want to spread your sadness, 'tis like a disease!
[05:32:32] <Steffanx> It seems you have the same problem
[05:32:39] <Steffanx> Maybe we can talk about it
[05:32:52] <Steffanx> Dominate the world with our sadness
[05:35:59] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogenization_(chemistry)
[05:37:00] <creep> If you take a gallon of fresh milk straight from a cow and allow it to sit in the refrigerator, all of the cream will completely separate, leaving you with skim milk and a layer of cream. To make "homogenized milk," you need the cream to stay suspended in the milk. Homogenization is the process of breaking up the fat globules in cream to such a small size that they remain suspended evenly in the milk rather than separating out and flo
[05:37:00] <creep> ating to the surface.
[05:37:52] <vsync_> Fucking googloids.
[05:38:00] <Steffanx> Sadness...
[05:38:03] <vsync_> yes
[05:38:25] <creep> ;>
[05:38:40] <vsync_> googloids, like Steffanx!
[05:39:04] <Steffanx> Better being a googloid than being stupid forever
[05:39:14] <OndraSter_> or forever alone
[05:39:19] <vsync_> but being a googloid implies the other
[05:39:23] <Steffanx> Sure sure.
[05:39:42] <Steffanx> Go get some vodka vsync_
[05:40:17] <creep> google sells your private information/habits/interests btw for about 0.001$
[05:40:27] <OndraSter_> sounds reasonable
[05:40:29] <OndraSter_> I am not worth more!
[05:40:35] <creep> :)
[05:41:22] <OndraSter_> in terms of security and private data I trust now much more Microsoft over google
[05:41:28] <creep> well they sell it again and again actually
[05:41:51] <creep> so it's probably a stable income
[05:42:11] <OndraSter_> it is not like anybody uses G+
[05:42:36] <creep> gmail is everywhere...
[05:42:44] <creep> and they use google.com
[05:42:45] <OndraSter_> gmail != g+
[05:43:14] <OndraSter_> bing is slowly indexing czech websites, which is very nice thing
[05:43:17] <creep> i'm not in these
[05:43:57] <creep> it must be cool to be the chairman of google
[05:44:13] <OndraSter_> "what private data shall we sell today..."?
[05:44:14] <creep> it earns millions of dollars
[05:44:38] <Steffanx> OndraSter_, .. you shouldn't trust anyone with your personal info :)
[05:44:49] <Steffanx> *private data
[05:46:36] <creep> porn ads even know your address better than geolocation services :)
[05:47:11] <OndraSter_> lol
[05:47:20] <OndraSter_> I do not pay for porn websites.
[05:47:36] <OndraSter_> thus I do not enter my address.
[05:47:42] <Steffanx> Your dad did
[05:47:55] <OndraSter_> lol
[05:48:02] <creep> but others do, and if you happen to have shared dynamic ips they can get close
[05:48:09] <OndraSter_> my dad doesn't know about internet paying with credit card
[05:48:11] <OndraSter_> heh
[05:48:16] <OndraSter_> my IP is shared with 750 people or so
[05:48:21] <OndraSter_> across many km2
[05:48:40] <RifRaf> for AVR to AVR communication via the uarts do i still need a max232 or just hook them direct?
[05:48:46] <OndraSter_> direct
[05:48:47] <OndraSter_> of course
[05:48:56] <creep> OndraSter_<< you see :) you count only as 1 vote
[05:49:04] <RifRaf> ok thanks
[05:49:13] <OndraSter_> remember to cross the wiring
[05:49:17] <OndraSter_> tx => rx
[05:49:18] <RifRaf> yep
[05:49:19] <OndraSter_> and vice versa
[05:52:32] <RifRaf> what if there was a max232 already on the board and its hard to get access to the pins direct? would it still work or kill the other avr?
[05:53:28] <OndraSter_> kill
[05:53:35] <OndraSter_> since it boosts into 12V
[05:53:36] <RifRaf> its a pcb i made years ago to connect to a pc via serial, but now i want to send commands to another avr instead
[05:53:46] <OndraSter_> unsolder the max232
[05:54:05] <RifRaf> is all surface mount but could do that
[05:54:11] <OndraSter_> yes, do that :)
[05:54:30] <OndraSter_> then place a thin wire near the pad and properly hold it on the board - with some hard glue
[05:54:33] <OndraSter_> and then solder it to the pad
[05:54:39] <OndraSter_> not the other way around!
[05:54:41] <RifRaf> http://rifraf.dyndns.org/images/servo6.jpg
[05:54:51] <creep> cut it around with a laser ;>>
[05:55:33] <creep> i once did this with a board and then cut another matching part from another pcb, and fused them together with epoxy, and made electrical contact to the patch board
[05:59:02] <creep> RifRaf<< deadbug topology works too... you do not need a PCB to connect things together
[05:59:29] <OndraSter_> I like my way best so far
[05:59:34] <RifRaf> been there :)
[06:00:20] <RifRaf> btw, i blew the power supply on that board up 3 times today, seems if i try and flash it with servos attached it smokes
[06:00:47] <RifRaf> the servos use the same i/o as the isp, does this make sense?
[06:01:05] <RifRaf> now i can can flash it ok if the servos are disconnected
[06:01:35] <OndraSter_> lol of course it craps out with servos connected
[06:05:21] <dekroning> hi
[06:05:50] <OndraSter_> hihi
[06:06:09] <dekroning> how much space is there in the AVR bootloader? I would like to make a bootloader that allows me to do autoupdate via internet, but maybe it's too small perhaps?
[06:06:28] <inflex> lo Richard_Cavell
[06:06:28] <specing> No way you're going to squeeze it in there
[06:06:32] <inflex> hiya RifRaf
[06:06:39] <Richard_Cavell> Hi inflex
[06:06:41] <OndraSter_> hah not on mega
[06:06:44] <RifRaf> g'day inflex how you been?
[06:06:46] <OndraSter_> you need whole tcp-ip stack
[06:07:00] <inflex> RifRaf: lots of changes, but alive, so all good :)
[06:07:34] <RifRaf> well thats a plus, all good here too, been digging out some old projects and getting back into avr and robots
[06:07:54] <OndraSter_> I am fine with USB self updating bootloader
[06:08:02] <OndraSter_> on xmega with 8K of bootloader flash
[06:08:02] <RifRaf> basically relearning
[06:34:59] <xrosnight> hey :)
[06:35:14] <xrosnight> Is there any AVR tutorial books for newbies ?? :)
[06:47:16] <r00t|home> xrosnight: just start with arduino if you are so much of a newbie that you need a book?
[06:49:57] <theBear> aww, don't say that
[06:49:57] <tzanger> why would you tell him that?
[06:50:14] <theBear> he'll slowly un-learn how to program the avr
[06:50:33] <tzanger> xrosnight: the nice thing about micros (any) is that most of the newbie projects can *easily* be adapted for any micro
[06:50:40] <darknite> xrosnight: c or asm? or just avr in general?
[06:50:42] <tzanger> you're not going to be writing in assembly, so C is C
[06:50:59] <tzanger> you just need to learn how to use the AVR-libc macros and such
[06:51:31] * Xark looks all over for details on the analogWrite opcode... :)
[06:51:43] <darknite> even if it's not needed it might be what he wants to do
[06:51:45] <tzanger> and to do that just look at some web tutorials.
[06:51:46] <tzanger> http://www.micahcarrick.com/avr-toggle-led-test-program-for-avrusb500.html
[06:51:53] <tzanger> that was the first hit on google "avr-libc toggle led"
[06:52:16] <xrosnight> r00t|home: thanks. but i don't want to learn from arduino. i want to learn more on AVR cause i know how Arduino works. And I have learned something about 8051 series MCU. Now get ready to learn AVR.
[06:52:42] <specing> No, You don't know how arduino works
[06:53:07] <tzanger> more googling gives
http://aquaticus.info/pwm "avr-libc pwm tutorial"
[06:53:27] <tzanger> http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/AVR-GCC-Tutorial
[06:53:32] <tzanger> that's in german but looks good
[06:53:54] <tzanger> xrosnight: so you really seem to want to know how to program the various avr peripherals
[06:54:09] <tzanger> grab the datasheet, learn how to manipulate bits the "nice ways" in avr-libc, and you shoudl be off to the races
[06:54:53] <xrosnight> i want to program in C. Not in Arduino. Even though Arduino might have more libs. But sometimes, those libs are not as satisfying as they looks. I need to solder something
[06:54:59] <tzanger> I picked this up over the course of a week or two last summer with my first AVR project. basic timer interrupt handler and a main loop consisting of a number of state machines to drive things like the ADC, LCD, debounce buttons etc
[06:56:52] <xrosnight> tzanger: thanks man. Do they have English ones?
[06:57:56] <r00t|home> xrosnight: google has any amount of tutorials you might ever want to read...
[06:59:25] <xrosnight> r00t|home: thanks . I ever learned AT89s52 MCU on windows platform. now i am heading to linux. On linux, which complier do you use?
[07:00:01] <OndraSter_> avr-gcc
[07:00:05] <OndraSter_> just as on windows
[07:24:01] * inflex really doesn't feel comfortable programming with Arduino
[07:24:09] <inflex> much prefer "raw" C, or even ASM a few times
[07:24:56] <inflex> Still, at least with the advent of the Arduino there's now a lot more people interested in electronics and microcontrollers, so that's a good thing
[07:25:15] <inflex> ( because it tends to bring down the prices of a lot of nifty bits of gear )
[07:26:48] <OndraSter_> yes
[08:28:59] <Tom_itx> xrosnight, read dean's articles from the menu here:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/abcminiuser/articles/avr_timers_index.php
[09:54:08] <iSaleK> Does anyone know if it's possible to change external hdd case that uses 2 usb ports, to change it to use just 1? I guess mine transcend hdd need more than 100mA or something like that?
[09:59:14] <OndraSter_> iSaleK, 2.5"?
[09:59:16] <OndraSter_> sure you can
[09:59:26] <iSaleK> OndraSter_: how? :)
[09:59:29] <OndraSter_> I can use 1 USB port for short cable and better laptops/USB hubs
[09:59:35] <OndraSter_> just don't plug the other one in
[10:00:29] <iSaleK> Mine is using 2/4 free USB ports on my laptop but when I connect just one the blue led flashes and the device is not registered...
[10:01:22] <OndraSter_> not enough power
[10:01:24] <OndraSter_> how long is your cable?
[10:01:29] <OndraSter_> I am using very short one - 15cm or so
[10:02:21] <theBear> in theory some usb ports will die or temporarily melt a self healing fuse if you only use a single port, the 'right' way to do it is to run a 5v/1a psu to the 'dummy' port (usually only one plug is connected to the data lines), and i suppose disconnect the usbpower on the real/data port
[10:03:11] <theBear> if you had a standard-breaking old double-ended usb cable and a iphone style usb charger you should be fine just plugging that straight in
[10:03:51] <theBear> oooh, also try shuffling the cables, sometimes if it's a split cable or similar you might accidentally put it around a way that makes the data lines not go to the computer
[10:17:36] <iSaleK> Well I don't know what's wrong with it but on some computers it can work with just one cable and on some it requires both...
[10:17:51] <iSaleK> For example on my laptop it requires both and on my desktop it can run with one...
[10:18:46] <iSaleK> And OndraSter_ my cable is about 0.5m I've just measured it now :)
[10:18:52] <iSaleK> Shorter one will do better?
[10:21:59] <OndraSter_> of course
[10:22:10] <OndraSter_> with 0.7m USB cable it didn't work off single USB port anymore
[10:22:48] <OndraSter_> <theBear> in theory some usb ports will die or temporarily melt a self healing fuse if you only use a single port
[10:22:53] <OndraSter_> usually current sensing + cut off
[10:25:20] <theBear> really ? i dunno what you seen, i usually see TINY smd normal fuses, or nothing on real mobos, and poly/resetters on better lappies
[10:26:00] <theBear> my old gigabytes are happy to do over 2a on any usb port, but the old fone doesn't charge on other computer ports (literally first phone htc ever made, silly charging circuit)
[10:26:27] <OndraSter_> eh
[10:28:33] <theBear> it's a known design fault, from memory above about 45% charge it pulls 500ma or less, but below that it needs a good 2a or it runs down instead of charging
[10:42:44] <dirty_d> OndraSter_, i think these stm32f3s might have xmega beat
[10:43:21] <dirty_d> ive been reading the manual a lot so im ready when it gets here, lol
[10:58:59] <OndraSter> dirty_d, but atmel studio!
[11:00:11] <dirty_d> ive never used it
[11:00:14] <dirty_d> only avr-gcc
[11:00:28] <OndraSter> you have missed on the greatest thing about Atmel :)
[11:15:49] <tld> OndraSter what great thing abotu Atmel?
[11:15:53] <tld> ahh, atmel studio?
[11:16:08] <tld> I use atmel chips specifically because I *don't* have to use that kind of thing. ;)
[11:18:56] <yunta> I'm also very happy I can use emacs :)
[11:21:53] * tld prefers vim, but let's not get into *that* discussion. ;)
[11:22:12] <tld> I should probably force myself to try out emacs for a while again, been quite some time since last time.
[11:22:48] <tld> generally though; If I can't have open code, and open tools, I'll look for a different chip. Simple as that.
[11:23:54] <tld> I want my tools to be mine. I don't want tools that belong to someone else, but that they graciously lets me borrow.
[11:30:50] <yunta> nice attitude :)
[11:31:39] <tld> it might not make sense commercially, but it makes sense for hobby and educational bits… I do this for fun, sure, but also because I want to *own* the skillsets I acquire.
[11:31:53] <tld> that leans heavily towards open.
[11:32:29] <tld> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR94NDIfGmA <-- irrelevant and off-topic, but 1 piano, 2 guys, and 100 cello tracks.
[11:33:43] <OndraSter> I thought that everybody by now already knows about ThePianoGuys/TheCelloGuys :)
[11:34:16] <tld> OndraSter: Most do, but never hurts to introduce music to those not familiar with it.
[11:34:30] <OndraSter> you're right
[11:34:33] <tld> music taste might be better here than average though, so maybe it was a bit redundant of me, sorry. ;)
[11:34:37] <OndraSter> I haven't heard them on any radio
[11:34:55] <OndraSter> unlike any of the "commercial" stuff (be it Rihanna, Flo rida, PSY, ..)
[11:34:55] <tld> They don't have boobies, that's the problem.
[11:34:58] <OndraSter> heh
[11:35:23] <tld> Rihanna has, so she sells better, and gets better management.
[11:35:29] <tld> sad, sad world.
[11:35:40] <OndraSter> yep
[11:35:45] <OndraSter> and footballists get paid more than scientists
[11:35:47] <OndraSter> SAD, SAD WORLD!
[11:36:05] <yunta> I haven't seen them yet :)
[11:36:17] <OndraSter> they got most famous by the cello wars :P
[11:36:19] <OndraSter> star wars parody
[11:36:57] <tld> http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePianoGuys?feature=watch <-- worth checking out the latest actually.
[11:37:18] <OndraSter> yep
[11:37:22] <OndraSter> Lindsey Stirling is awesome too
[11:37:24] <OndraSter> on her own
[11:37:33] <tld> with Lindsey Stirling… that takes care of the boobies, so now they might have a shot actually…
[11:37:40] <tld> (sorry for being overly cynical today)
[11:37:56] <OndraSter> haha
[11:38:14] <OndraSter> I like in the latest video how they have got "silent" server room :D
[11:39:09] <tld> just shows how high-tech it is… *caugh*
[11:39:28] <abcminiuser> Did someone say boobies?
[11:39:35] <abcminiuser> My client just dinged...
[11:39:52] <OndraSter> eh
[11:39:59] <OndraSter> I know that feeling
[11:40:03] <tld> abcminiuser: nice backlog here for you, depending on if you like boobies and/or music… If you like the latter, might be interesting… Not too much of the former. ;)
[11:40:21] * abcminiuser is conflicted...
[11:42:02] <tld> I can see the argument that boobies and music go hand-in hand, to give some kind of double-deal, but I generally prefer *listening* to music… boobies I have at home. ;)
[11:42:56] * abcminiuser needs to find that mexican food "why not both" ad....
[11:43:09] <OndraSter> haha
[11:43:20] <OndraSter> tld,
[11:43:22] <OndraSter> <-- forever alone
[11:43:24] <seldon> The solution is obvious: One needs to build an instrument that can be played with boobies.
[11:43:26] <OndraSter> forever available*
[11:44:25] <tld> seldon: giant Tenori-on?
[11:44:35] <tld> OndraSter: that's what they all say, never happens.
[11:44:49] <seldon> That sort of thing precisely.
[11:44:52] <OndraSter> never happens what, tld ?
[11:45:01] <tld> OndraSter: the "forever alone" part.
[11:45:04] <OndraSter> ah
[11:45:13] <tld> people say it, but it never actually comes true.
[11:45:13] <tzanger> this chan is awesome. very little AVR talk though
[11:45:21] <abcminiuser> seldon, I volunteer for testing
[11:45:40] <Steffanx> Sounds like the average channel tzanger :)
[11:45:43] <OndraSter> yep
[11:45:46] <tzanger> true
[11:45:50] <OndraSter> none of the rubbish "STAY ON TOPIC OR BAN"
[11:45:55] <abcminiuser> Ask a question if you have one :)
[11:45:59] <abcminiuser> Otherwise: boobs
[11:46:08] * tzanger is an IRC elder
[11:46:21] <OndraSter> I have been on IRC for good 7 years
[11:46:23] <seldon> abcminiuser, I will have to check if you have the necessary equipment first.
[11:46:28] <OndraSter> which is quite nice since I am 20 yo.. :D
[11:47:00] <OndraSter> damn I feel so old now
[11:47:03] * tld can probably pass for an IRC elder as well.
[11:47:07] <tzanger> you're a child. :-) I first logged in with mIRC and trumpet windsock back around '94/95
[11:47:13] <Horologium> tld, that last video you posted....wtf?
[11:47:14] <OndraSter> haha
[11:47:25] <tld> good things with places like this, is that the chatter gives way for on-topic stuff, so no problem.
[11:47:30] <Horologium> I just see some people trying to pretend they are secret agents and playing at musical instruments.
[11:47:32] <seldon> Oh boy. I remember mirc.
[11:47:32] <tzanger> yep
[11:47:52] * tld used mirc a couple of times, but moves on to bitchx and epic.
[11:47:52] <OndraSter> Horologium, that's what it is about, yes
[11:47:59] <Horologium> I suppose it would be different if I had speakers or some kind of audio output on this computer.
[11:48:02] <OndraSter> I moved onto xchat
[11:48:05] <tzanger> I remember trumpet winsock. :-(
[11:48:07] <OndraSter> Horologium, yes
[11:48:18] <Horologium> but I hate music videos as a general rule.
[11:48:23] <tld> tzanger: typo? surely you mean winsuck?
[11:48:30] <tzanger> heh
[11:48:42] <Horologium> I remember trumpet winsock.
[11:48:48] <Horologium> and even used mirc way back when.
[11:48:51] <Horologium> but xchat all the way here.
[11:48:53] <tzanger> and before the internets I was on bbses and FidoNet
[11:49:03] <tld> I miss those days.
[11:49:04] <Horologium> same here tzanger
[11:49:08] <tld> waaay different signal-to-noise ratio
[11:49:10] <Horologium> even ran a fidonet node for a year or so.
[11:49:19] <tzanger> irssi in screen via ssh > *
[11:49:24] <Horologium> I remember when irc required some semblance of intelligence to get onto too.
[11:49:36] <tzanger> I was a point, no second phone line
[11:49:41] <tld> Then there was a high concentration of smart people, now theres… youtube and 4chan.
[11:49:50] <Horologium> tzanger, ever get on irc via telnet? like, telnet direct to the irc server and handle all commands yourself.
[11:50:03] <Horologium> I did that when learning to write an irc bot years back.
[11:50:06] * tld did, but the pinging got boring.
[11:50:26] <tzanger> well web forums take care of most of the riff-raff, but there's still an awful lot of them here on irc. :-(
[11:50:39] * Horologium points to RifRaf ...
[11:50:42] <Horologium> err...nevermind.
[11:50:52] <tzanger> Horologium: yes. I still do that with imap more often than I'd like to admit
[11:51:04] <tld> SMTP
[11:51:05] <tld> HTTP
[11:51:06] <tld> SIP
[11:51:07] <tld> etc
[11:51:23] <abcminiuser> Y'all are ancient
[11:51:27] <tzanger> sip? I don't do sip-tcp but the others yes
[11:51:33] <Horologium> yeah, I use telnet for smtp once in a while.
[11:51:41] <Horologium> mostly to test if the smtp server is actually running.
[11:52:17] <tld> sip-tcp on non-5060 ports is nice for lower volumes, less NAT-ALG issues.
[11:52:28] <creep> HTP
[11:52:29] <tld> best with SSL though.
[11:52:40] <seldon> SSL through telnet? You are a brave man.
[11:53:03] <creep> HEMT
[11:53:06] <tld> err, sorry, my thoughts trailed off… I meant NAT-ALG issues and SIP-TCP… that's best if you add on ssl as well.
[11:53:31] <tld> I'm not quick enough at math to do SSL by hand before connection timeouts.
[11:53:42] <creep> HBT
[11:53:53] <tzanger> heh. ssl via telnet makes me picture the terminator chick from the third movie "talking" modem into the cell phone
[11:54:03] <creep> MESFET
[11:54:05] <creep> :)
[11:54:12] <creep> yey Horologium
[11:54:41] <OndraSter> BACK TO BOOBS! Somebody misspelled "facebook" as "faceboob" :)
[11:54:51] <creep> anybody made a variable gain amplifier yet? or maybe stable output amplitude amplifier?
[11:55:02] <tzanger> that's no typo.
[11:55:10] <creep> faceboob is better
[11:55:35] <Horologium> only thing worthwhile on facebook is,,,umm,,,well,,,,ok, so not worth the bandwidth to ddos it...
[11:55:49] <tld> creep: normal amp, digipot for setting feedback?
[11:56:12] <seldon> I tend to grep -v facebook conversations.
[11:56:13] <creep> i was thinking about something cheap and linear like jfet gain adjust
[11:56:19] <creep> and opamp
[11:56:37] <tld> that should work?
[11:56:49] <Horologium> oooo....hmmm....opamp + digital pot = DAC!
[11:57:09] <creep> here is the faceboob :P
http://redpatentmaryjanes.blogspot.hu/2011/02/hypocrasy-of-faceboob-from-lactivist.html
[11:57:34] <tzanger> R2R network + digital outputs = DAC
[11:58:00] <Horologium> yeah yeah yeah...
[12:02:31] <creep> so nobody? :)
[12:02:41] <creep> searched the net and very few stuff like this ;/
[12:03:55] <Horologium> http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/circuits/opamp_variable_gain_amp/op_amp_variable_gain_amp.php
[12:04:34] <creep> it would be useful for making a microphone amplifier output , or power amplifier input be at a constant level for example
[12:05:57] <creep> Horologium<< been there :) that's not so cool, and not automatic
[12:06:36] <creep> actually i found 3 version of the jfet stuff on all of the net
[12:06:44] <Horologium> http://www.linear.com/product/LTC1564
[12:07:04] <creep> oh, and the texas instruments variable gain ic ...
[12:07:48] <Horologium> linear has some nice variable gain amps too it seems.
[12:07:54] <creep> isn't it cool anymore to do some magic in analog ? :(
[12:08:04] <Horologium> naa.
[12:08:13] <Horologium> too expensive and requires MATH...
[12:08:25] <creep> i see ;<
[12:08:30] <Horologium> can't have people trying to think or anything.
[12:08:51] <creep> well if you want a step gain adjust check out some bilateral switches and resistors and put them into the feedback loop of the opamp
[12:09:02] <creep> that will be good upto a few MHz
[12:09:14] <Horologium> so what you want is a feedback from the output to normalize(I think that's the correct term) it
[12:09:39] <creep> something like that, normalize upto a specified voltage level
[12:10:01] <tzanger> creep: probably suffers from tempco or drift or offset problems
[12:10:15] <creep> variable gain - yes
[12:10:34] <creep> but if i just want to servo gain to achieve an output voltage level - no
[12:10:36] <tzanger> analog is fun but most people don't like to think about it
[12:10:46] <Horologium> for some reason I'm picturing a secod
[12:11:06] <creep> look what magic i found
[12:11:07] <creep> http://www.tradeofic.com/uploadfile/ic-circuit/20096243954210.gif
[12:11:07] <creep> :)
[12:11:29] <Horologium> for some reason I'm picturing a second opamp backfeeding to the gain control jfet with a rectifier and cap on the output of the second opamp,,,\
[12:11:48] <creep> Horologium<< correct ;>
[12:11:48] <Horologium> but,,that's just something that pooped(no misspelling there) into my twisted little skull
[12:12:17] <creep> so, stable output voltage is possible and is cool
[12:12:31] <tzanger> creep: what's the source of the control voltage?
[12:12:56] <creep> like the second opamp peak limiter Horologium just described
[12:13:14] <creep> so it is possible to set any voltage output level
[12:13:14] <tzanger> you could also look at agc circuits if you're trying to amplify to maintain a level
[12:13:34] <tzanger> I don't see an AVR in any of this description. :-)
[12:14:24] <Horologium> http://www.radio-kits.co.uk/radio-related/agc_amplifier/index.htm
[12:15:17] <creep> thats interesting nice find :)
[12:15:44] <Horologium> first hit on google search for agc amplifier...was a google images hit actually.
[12:15:56] <tzanger> creep: what's the application?
[12:16:22] <creep> tzanger<< well, audio for now
[12:16:51] <tzanger> I have always wanted to build an agc for watching tv/movies but never got around to it
[12:18:07] <creep> actually, i really hate every potmeter, so i was thinking about making hall potmeter with 0-5V output, and control the amplitude of a pedal with that
[12:18:15] <Horologium> http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/5433?ver=E&t=al&utm_expid=50713806-2&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
[12:18:19] <Horologium> or do it in one chip.\
[12:31:23] <tzanger> potmeter?
[12:37:58] <Horologium> tzanger, measures how fucked up you are.
[12:38:05] <tzanger> haha
[12:38:43] <creep> Horologium<<
http://www.next.gr/uploads/135-9002.png :) amplitude stabilized wein bridge sinewave oscilaltor
[12:39:20] <tzanger> bah the at90 bandgap isn't accurate either
[12:40:18] <tzanger> wtf is the point of putting a reference on board if it's inaccurate as hell
[12:40:44] <GuShH> accurate or precise?
[12:41:27] <GuShH> because you need a reference then you build one, whether the process allows for high precision or not depends on the design specs for that part...
[12:41:31] <creep> Horologium<< what do you think about these?
http://amplifiercircuit.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Voltage-controlled-variable-gain-amplifier.jpg http://electronicdesign.com/site-files/electronicdesign.com/files/archive/electronicdesign.com/files/29/10116/figure_01.gif
[12:41:42] <GuShH> it's not how you want it to be or how it should be, it is how it is :p
[12:42:22] <Horologium> I think they look like amplifiers to me.
[12:42:45] <creep> the 2 fet thing is a bit complicated
[12:43:19] <creep> the other looks interesting
[12:43:37] <creep> altering gain by connecting + and - together
[12:45:15] <theBear> mmm, i quite like the lm101 one (single fet)
[12:45:46] <theBear> it's a nice neat approach to a traditionally 'tricky' thing
[12:45:54] <creep> i guess any kind of opamp will do for that
[12:46:06] <theBear> yeah, it's basically just altering the feedback and therefore gain
[12:46:55] <creep> its a common mode suppressor
[12:46:59] <theBear> the fet just acts like an adjustable resistor, it'll be SLIGHTLY influenced by signal going through r3, but if you tune the values it should be negligible for most purposes
[12:49:05] <creep> yes the fet should have near 0v across SD for best performance
[12:51:43] <theBear> i was thinking more that you'll be using a dc voltage to set the gain on the gate, and fet is 'controlled' by gate-source, but particularly with larger values on r3 or higher gate voltages (therefore more signal to r3) your control voltage will be SLIGHTLY modulated by the changing source potential
[12:53:37] <creep> gain will be modulated each half period ;<
[12:54:10] <creep> when a source (drain) goes below (or above) the gate
[12:55:52] <creep> this is why
http://www.tradeofic.com/uploadfile/ic-circuit/20096243954210.gif this is not so cool with larger input levels
[12:57:21] <tzanger> GuShH: both. If it's 2.56V I expect it to be at least accurate to 10mV and +/- half that
[12:57:31] <tzanger> otherwise what's the point of specifying 2 significant digits of precision
[12:58:15] <creep> it will work nicely non attenuated, but as it wants to attenuate, every half period of the AC signal will increase gain back more by decreasing gate source voltage ;/
[12:58:16] <tzanger> interesting, measuring the GND input gives me 0-1 count
[12:58:31] <tzanger> I would love to know where this offset is coming from
[12:58:55] <tzanger> the only thing I can think of is that the reference is wandering, which would be horribly wrong
[12:59:38] <creep> tzanger<< digital interference will cause errors, this is why they made ADC noise reduction modes
[12:59:58] <tzanger> the diode drops are 886mV; the ADC says it's 975
[13:00:03] <creep> and using ground planes, and separate analog and digital grounds...
[13:00:08] <tzanger> creep: sure, maybe a count that would average out over time
[13:00:25] <tzanger> creep: yeah I've done enough analog board layout to know how to do that :-)
[13:00:40] <tzanger> or rather to be aware of the issues/concerns in mV measurement
[13:00:56] <tzanger> this *was* accurate though, it was awesome. something changed and I"m not sure what
[13:01:20] <creep> nearby radio station started transmitting ...
[13:01:26] <tzanger> I thought ok, maybe the op-amp I put in there has significant offset error... nope. the voltage levels at the ADC inputs are +/- 0.5mV of what the inputs to the op-amp are.
[13:03:27] <GuShH> tzanger: you can't expect anything other than what's written on the datasheet. also consider the fact that loading an unbuffered reference will defeat it's purpose
[13:03:57] <GuShH> of course I doubt it's unbuffered, but the buffers are only meant to push or pull (sometimes both) a few mAs at best
[13:04:08] <tzanger> GuShH: the internal reference is feeding ONLY the internal ADC. I've put a 10/.1 cap combo on the ref pin as per the datasheet but that doesn't make any difference anyway
[13:04:33] <tzanger> the only thing I can think of is that I introduced a ground loop with the op-amp
[13:04:47] <GuShH> tzanger: fire.
[13:04:49] <GuShH> FIX IT WITH FIRE
[13:05:22] <tzanger> I connected it to system common instead of AGND; AGND/GND are connected together at the AT90 and there is no appreciable difference between GND/AGND anyway but maybe there's something goofy going on in the AVR
[13:05:34] <tzanger> I will move the opamp GND up to AGND when I get back to teh shop
[13:08:37] <iSaleK> If I want to make a hot wire styrophoam cutter, can I short vcc and gnd via wire that will get really hot? :)
[13:08:55] <tzanger> hm, disabling JTAG seems to have corrected it, but I remember that screwing it up before which is why I'd disabled the JTAG disable. :-)
[13:09:03] <tzanger> now it's measuring 12C which is accurate
[13:09:30] <GuShH> iSaleK: hm???? be more vague please
[13:09:54] <tzanger> it's still reading higher than it should be though, the diode drops aren't 0.9V
[13:10:24] <GuShH> you'll want a current source or at least a current limited power supply and some nichrome wire
[13:10:35] <iSaleK> GuShH: I want to make a hot wire styrofoam cutter. I need a wire that will be really hot and therefore really easy to go trough/cut trough styrofoam.
[13:10:45] <GuShH> I know that.
[13:10:54] <GuShH> You failed to explain what type of power supply you had at hand
[13:10:56] <iSaleK> Can I use a DC adapter or do I need to make a current source with pnp or something like that?
[13:11:03] <GuShH> Again, you are being vague.
[13:11:13] <GuShH> "dc adapter" could be anything.
[13:11:21] <iSaleK> Curently I have DC adapter 6V 900mA and a 100W PC power supply :)
[13:11:33] <GuShH> iSaleK: the nichrome is a high resistance wire, but without a safe limit on the supply you'll cook it, unless it's protected.
[13:11:53] <GuShH> the psu will most likely shut down since the initial load would be close to a dead short.
[13:12:00] <OndraSter> STOP USING CHEAP PC PSUs for fun
[13:12:05] <GuShH> and your 6V at less than an amp won't be worth shit.
[13:12:10] <GuShH> OndraSter: oh? so we can't shoot them no more?
[13:12:14] <OndraSter> heh
[13:12:16] <OndraSter> that fun - yes
[13:12:19] <OndraSter> but for nothing serioues
[13:12:20] <OndraSter> serious
[13:12:27] <GuShH> he wants to make things out of styrofoam
[13:12:28] <OndraSter> they tend to blow if you do >50% spec ratings
[13:12:29] <GuShH> how serious can that be
[13:12:39] <OndraSter> shorting power rails through resistance wire
[13:12:42] <OndraSter> :P
[13:12:43] <GuShH> because they put stickers 2x the rating
[13:12:54] <GuShH> a 500W chinese generic psu is 250 at best.
[13:12:56] <OndraSter> I tried loading +5VSB rated at 2A with 0.8A
[13:12:58] <OndraSter> it blew up :(
[13:13:00] <tzanger> iSaleK: you need a current limiting supply, or a supply that can handle the current level you are going to draw with the wire
[13:13:15] <OndraSter> or constant power controller!
[13:13:15] <GuShH> bla bla bla let's repeat what's been said
[13:13:18] <OndraSter> :P
[13:13:20] <OndraSter> afk
[13:13:22] <Horologium> http://www.hhhh.org/joeboy/resources/hotwire_foam_cutter/hotwire_foam_cutter.html
[13:13:36] <GuShH> yeah because I'm about to murder you with your keyboard OndraSter! and I hope it's an old IBM with metal chassis so it HURTS!
[13:13:39] * GuShH frowns
[13:13:43] <GuShH> :p
[13:13:54] <GuShH> I love those old keyboards
[13:14:00] <GuShH> they're clicky too, turns people around you mad.
[13:14:10] <GuShH> you couldn't hurt a fly with a modern keyboard...
[13:14:24] <Horologium> hmmm...idea time.
[13:14:48] <Horologium> need to write a virus that makes every computer in the office click when I press button on my keyboard..every computer but mine.
[13:14:50] <Horologium> muahahahahahaha
[13:15:09] <GuShH> Heres a cookie for your idea
[13:15:33] <Horologium> bout all I'll ever get for it I suppose.
[13:15:40] * GuShH imagines a massive switch statement with GetAsyncKeyState() calls)
[13:16:08] <GuShH> extra points if you make it fart every time they press enter.
[13:16:31] <Horologium> well,,I have a giant fart button on my phone.
[13:16:58] <GuShH> that's what technology is for eh...
[13:17:02] <Horologium> http://www.appszoom.com/android_applications/the+big+fart+button
[13:17:11] <GuShH> let's buy expensive "smart" phones so we can get a $2 fart machine.
[13:17:30] <GuShH> we could argue the phones are smarter than the owners.
[13:17:39] <Horologium> http://mobile.softmenu.org/android-apps/entertainment/big-fart-button-android-3.0.html version 3.0....
[13:17:43] <GuShH> ccksckrs.
[13:17:43] <Horologium> WTF?!?!
[13:18:14] <GuShH> Horologium: version 3.0, we changed around the button and it's colour to make you buy/upgrade it once again, enjoy!
[13:18:44] <GuShH> WE HAVE NO LIFE HAHAHA NO LIFE WHATSOEVER APPS APPS ALL AROUND BUY ME DINNER OR ILL DIE IM AN ANDROID DEV
[13:19:09] * GuShH looks around and hides in the corner, scared of rapist green robots.
[13:19:23] <Horologium> ok..on to next idea.
[13:19:43] <Horologium> wonder how hard it would be to read image from a parallel port webcam from last century..
[13:21:09] <GuShH> not too hard
[13:21:27] <GuShH> Horologium: find me the manual for the brother ax-30 and I'll tell you!
[13:21:33] <GuShH> (this is an impossible task)
[13:21:46] <Horologium> what manual?
[13:21:49] <Horologium> user or service?
[13:21:51] <GuShH> both
[13:21:53] <GuShH> neither exist
[13:22:00] <GuShH> I've even been to the japanese part of the internetz!
[13:22:05] <GuShH> you can't unsee those things.
[13:22:25] <GuShH> found everything for the other models except that one.
[13:22:50] <GuShH> (you mentioned last century webcams, this is a "last century" typewriter I want to turn into a text / console printer)
[13:23:17] * tzanger is hopelessly lost in the DIY section of dx.com
[13:24:26] <Horologium> you sure it is an ax-30?
[13:24:44] <GuShH> yes.
[13:25:08] <GuShH> there's no mention of their protocol for any other model either
[13:25:14] <GuShH> it's like nobody ever fooled around with them
[13:25:20] <creep> ok guys, i am drawing something
[13:25:55] <GuShH> is it hairy?
[13:26:17] <tzanger> does it have boobies?
[13:26:25] <tzanger> (let's hope it's not both)
[13:26:37] <creep> noo, but it has legs
[13:29:02] <creep> tell me an image uploading site
[13:29:12] <creep> imageshack.us frozen
[13:29:32] <Horologium> GuShH, interesting in that brother doesn't even acknowledge its existence.
[13:31:26] <GuShH> Horologium: not in the US
[13:31:27] <creep> http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=33xfxhh&s=6
[13:31:29] <GuShH> but they did in Japan
[13:31:30] <creep> yea
[13:31:46] <GuShH> it's like the lesser AX-22 (or so) but with an interface and lcd
[13:32:03] <Horologium> aahh. that explains some things.
[13:32:11] <Horologium> creep, that's mostly unreadable.
[13:32:13] <GuShH> I take it better models had the interface too, I just couldn't find info on the protocol
[13:32:37] <GuShH> what the hell creep, use circuitlab or something.
[13:33:09] <creep> i dont have useful stuff on linux right now
[13:33:20] <GuShH> why is it all squiggly?
[13:33:28] <creep> but the quality is good for this one i think
[13:33:32] <GuShH> creep: that's why I mentioned a browser based editor
[13:33:36] <creep> drawn it with gimp lol
[13:33:43] <GuShH> your standards are too low :(
[13:34:25] <GuShH> creep: www.circuitlab.com
[13:35:46] <creep> wow, i never seen that
[13:38:14] <tzanger> 350V bus, what are you up to?
[13:38:30] <Horologium> that's the first stage amplifier for the flux capacitor.
[13:39:03] <Horologium> but he forgot the dilithium triode.
[13:45:57] <Horologium> GuShH, not finding your manuals but found some dos code for accessing parallel port webcams...should be not too difficult to convert such to an avr.
[13:46:41] <GuShH> lol
[13:47:56] <Horologium> or I might just rip the CCD board out of the camera if it is separate from the interface board.
[13:48:00] <Horologium> haven't opened them up to see.
[13:49:27] <creep> tzanger<< just turn on P1 port and see what it does
[13:49:37] <Horologium> the ultimate would be a full PC, or even an rPI out there at the chicken coop with a camera and software to do chicken-recognition.
[13:49:46] <Horologium> as opposed to facial recognition.
[13:50:40] <Horologium> or,,,I could put a little tunnel just wide enough for 1 chicken to go through....with several beams to count chicken and check direction of travel.
[13:54:02] <tzanger> creep: it looks like you made a Kevorkian circuit for a suicial uP
[13:54:30] <tzanger> P1 goes on, puts ~7V on the gate of the FET, which then connects your 350V and 5V supplies together
[13:54:34] <tzanger> for a brief moment anyway
[13:54:36] <creep> like the warranty period has elapsed
[13:57:20] <tzanger> at first I thought you were creating a 5V supply that sat at 350V potential but then I saw all the grounds
[14:00:44] <tzanger> creep:
http://www.mixdown.ca/dump/xfrmrless.png
[14:01:18] <tzanger> I'm doing that there (creating a 5V supply that hangs on the 24VAC)
[14:01:29] <creep> circuit operation: P1 = high, npn turns pnp on, turning on the fet, the uP starts to burn and possibly drawing more and more current, giving more gate voltage to the fet, meanwhile the pnp transistor will latch up too, fet gets overcurrent and probably will latch on
[14:02:50] <tzanger> 5V is at 24VAC "live" level (net with the fuse at the top), gnd is 5V below it, riding on the AC
[14:03:03] <tzanger> it needs a bit of work yet
[14:05:54] <creep> i guess if the microcontroller gets 350V rail to VCC it will blow up :)
[14:07:12] <tzanger> yes
[14:07:20] <tzanger> unless it's supply rides on the rail like what I"m doing in my design
[14:07:23] <tzanger> then it won't give a shit
[14:07:44] <tzanger> same reason why birds don't care about being at hundreds of thousands of volts of potential when they sit on the high tension wires. :-)
[14:28:46] <creep> hmm, tinypic told me i would also like this image
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=33xfxhz&s=6
[14:30:20] <r00t|home> well, DO you?
[14:30:51] <creep> o.c. i like girls
[14:34:09] <r00t|home> that's a pretty broad category...
[15:08:52] <creep> theBear, Horologium this will work without R3 right?
http://amplifiercircuit.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Voltage-controlled-variable-gain-amplifier.jpg
[15:18:42] <seldon> According to the LM101 schematic, the + input leads directly to the base of an npn transistor. Leaving that swimming would lead to weirdness, so you'll probably need the pull-down.
[15:19:22] <creep> i was thinking about replacing it with a piece of wire
[15:19:45] <seldon> Then you'd go directly from the fet on the left to gnd, bypassing the opamp entirely.
[15:19:56] <creep> sure, it's an operational amplifier
[15:23:41] <creep> it would be much better to create near 0V across that jfet
[15:24:42] <seldon> You mean put a large R between + and -?
[15:25:31] <creep> the jfet is the large R
[15:25:40] <seldon> Yes, I was thinking wrong there for a moment.
[15:26:01] <creep> theBear, Horologium this will work without R3 right?
http://amplifiercircuit.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Voltage-controlled-variable-gain-amplifier.jpg
[15:26:03] <creep> :)
[15:26:17] <creep> it would be much better to create near 0V across that jfet
[15:26:19] <Horologium> how should I know?
[15:26:38] <Horologium> I just know how to use google to find things.
[15:26:40] <creep> you don't like operational amplifiers ?
[15:26:41] <Horologium> :}
[15:26:45] <Horologium> love them.
[15:27:07] <Horologium> but no clue about that circuit.
[15:27:19] <creep> hehe, well that's something new
[15:27:56] <creep> they probably did it at about 1960
[15:36:20] <creep> ok well the jfet will have about 0v across it, but the gate potential will then be superposition-ed onto R3's voltage level that makes stable gain control more difficult
[15:36:37] <creep> like theBear said
[15:50:46] <theBear> i'm not an expert on opamp internals/behaviour, but i'm pretty sure that it tries to keep r3 from moving as much as possible by nature, either way juggle the maths between that and the other resistors and you can minimize it
[15:52:59] <creep> opamp will always try to pull - to the potential of +
[15:53:15] <theBear> hmm, without r3 eh ? inverting with feedback, hmmm, you'd need someone that DOES know the internals of opamps, you need something to pull down the fet so it 'works'
[15:54:07] <creep> i mean, replace with 0 ohm
[15:54:26] <creep> so + is grounded, - can be pulled towards ground
[15:54:30] <theBear> mmk, i see
http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/whytubes/741equiv.gif and
http://electricalandelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/equivalent-circuit-of-an-op-amp.gif ... now i look at them
[15:55:42] <creep> yeah that gif tells all
[15:56:19] <creep> but Ro = 1 ohm, not 75W
[15:56:20] <theBear> hmmm, yeah, (i'm getting rusty, had to check the standard inverting opamp schem <grin>) that should be fine AND better i think
[15:57:28] <creep> so A is about 100V/mV of difference
[15:57:45] <theBear> and i suppose it would effectively be making the fet look like half a pot, with the input resistor forming the other half, ie, it would work with just the fet to gnd and the series resistor, doesn't even need the opamp.. i wonder if they didn't know what they were doing, or had a good reason to put that resistor
[15:58:43] <creep> it may be some playing around with stuff
[15:59:02] <creep> let's hook this up this way and let's see what it does type
[16:00:11] <creep> but so if there is r3 then voltage over it will modulate the gate voltage too if fed from something not superpositioned onto V_R3
[16:00:26] <creep> and jfets can do 700MHz
[16:02:41] <creep> theBear<< well, it would work without the opamp, but its the opamp that makes the voltage over the jfet near 0 ;>
[16:03:18] <creep> (when it is in the pinched off region)
[16:03:32] <theBear> ahh, good point
[16:09:37] <creep> i dislike jfet because of the drain and source terminals interchangeable ;<
[17:47:46] <evil_dan2wik> Am i able to get a 32bit AVR with the internal usb controller to connect as a serial port?
[17:48:00] <abcminiuser> evil_dan2wik, CDC class
[17:48:10] <evil_dan2wik> ok
[17:48:31] <evil_dan2wik> ah, thanks
[18:18:46] <ulrichard> I got some atmega8 chips from china. With avrdude I can read and set the fuses, but trying to flash a some code, I get : avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding
[18:20:45] <Tom_itx> maybe try -B32
[18:22:22] <Tom_itx> unless you screwed up the fuses and can't talk to it now
[18:29:35] <ulrichard> -B32 didn't change anything. I also found out that writing the fuses doesn't really work. avrdude reports success, but after setting them to 0xff and 0xdd or whatever else, reading them back in always results in 0xe1 and 0xd9.
[18:30:32] <Tom_itx> double check the wiring
[18:38:54] <ulrichard> if I change the wiring, I can't read nor write the fuses. The error message for flashing stays the same.
[18:40:11] <Tom_itx> avrdude is not seeing the programmer
[18:45:15] <ulrichard> ok, I'll net to sleep. Thanks for the help. I'll try again tomorrow. Is there anything special to the atmega8? So far I used atmega 168 328 644 and attiny 45 85. It's the first time I try to use an atmega8.
[18:48:20] <Tom_itx> should be the same
[18:48:37] <Tom_itx> not sure why you would if you have a 168 already
[18:48:44] <Tom_itx> same pinout with more features
[18:48:58] <ulrichard> I read stories of fake avr's from china, and I'm starting to suspect, I got some of those. But on the other hand, avrdude reports the correct device signature 0x1e9307.
[18:49:30] <Tom_itx> get it working with another chip then drop in the mega8
[18:49:38] <Tom_itx> is it a breadboard?
[18:49:48] <Tom_itx> i'd suspect the breadboard too if it is
[18:50:21] <ulrichard> yes, it's on a breadboard, but it works with an atmega168.
[18:50:45] <Tom_itx> and if you swap chips it doesn't?
[18:51:02] <Tom_itx> don't change anything else
[18:51:11] <ulrichard> yes, as soon as I insert one of the atmega8's it doesn't work
[18:51:24] <Tom_itx> sounds fishy
[18:51:37] <Tom_itx> they should work the same
[18:52:20] <ulrichard> Ok, thanks for the help, I'll need to go to sleep now.
[18:52:33] <Tom_itx> k
[22:06:41] <RifRaf> does anyone in here use the webbotlibs?
[22:07:12] <RifRaf> am just trying to recieve serial data and output it to the lcd
[22:11:44] <Tom_itx> no sorry
[22:12:01] <Tom_itx> i hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it
[22:14:14] <Tom_itx> is the lcd part working?
[22:22:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/rs232_rx_test/
[22:22:23] <Tom_itx> there's some uart rx code
[22:22:36] <Tom_itx> no lcd in it but i've got lcd code as well
[22:26:51] <RifRaf> yes lcd works
[22:28:00] <Tom_itx> i didn't see lcd code in that lib so i didn't know
[22:28:58] <RifRaf> has support for many lcds including graphic
[22:29:31] <Tom_itx> ahh
[22:29:36] <Tom_itx> looked interesting
[22:31:24] <RifRaf> has documantation but i cannot put that into code
[22:32:33] <RifRaf> watch this video to get an overview of how it works
http://www.billporter.info/2010/09/17/axon-webbotlib-project-designer-an-easy-way-to-get-started-with-it-all/
[22:38:34] <Tom_itx> does it generate code for you?
[22:38:49] <Tom_itx> based on user input?
[22:40:20] <RifRaf> no, it sets up all the hardware and makes some code examples, but not for the uart
[22:40:49] <RifRaf> it does make alot of code though to get all the hardware working properly
[22:41:19] <RifRaf> i can sent to the uart so it must be initialised right, just dunno how to recieve data
[22:42:02] <Tom_itx> look at that rx example i posted, maybe you can use some of that
[22:42:22] <RifRaf> like if you add a switch it shows how to ssee if the switched is pressed ot not, or for an led light it and turn it off, or send a line of text to an lcd, basic stuff
[22:44:06] <Tom_itx> not very well documented
[22:44:14] <Tom_itx> but it might do some good
