#avr | Logs for 2013-01-18

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[07:02:35] <amee2woof> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Netzteil-Trafo-12V-5V-fur-externe-Festplatte-extern-CD-DVD-IDE-SATA-S-ATA-/310561314011 << does this one sound too good to be true?
[07:02:44] <amee2woof> 2.5A power brick for half the price of the 2A ones
[07:39:49] <tld> amee2woof: Sparkfun has similar 2A unit for $9.95, ballpark the same?
[07:40:06] <tld> amee2woof: Doesn't sound too good to be true, but I'm not sure I'd trust ampere-rating for either.
[07:40:25] <tld> it seems slimmer than sparkfuns 2A unit, but that doesn't have to mean anything.
[07:40:39] <tld> keep in mind that quality of a PSU is typically proportional to it's weight.
[07:41:08] <amee2woof> yeah... i can get one rated 2A with a slightly larger case for ~14EUR... tempted to go for the lower powered and more expensive one
[07:41:44] <tld> I think I would.
[07:42:01] <amee2woof> what i don't like is that the cases on these power bricks are virtually impossible to open in a way that doesn't completely obliterate the unit :/
[07:42:15] <tld> the 2.5A might be "We could pull this without loosing regulation", which might be the same for the larger 2A.
[07:42:21] <tld> yeah. :(
[07:42:34] <amee2woof> since they have exactly zero ventilation i'm tempted to drill some holes into the case to improve cooling
[07:43:00] <tld> easy to hit a wire though
[07:43:05] <tld> (never know with these things)
[07:43:21] <amee2woof> exactly... hence why i'd want to get the case off before i drill into it
[07:43:56] <amee2woof> i might just cut the case open and put the board into a new case
[07:45:07] <amee2woof> improved cooling can go a long way towards improving reliability... thats why i put a heatsink on the ethernet IC on my raspberry board too >_>
[07:46:42] <tld> If you have temp-rise, cooling will help, but I'm not sure I'd use that PSU for anything giving a heat-rise.
[07:47:07] <amee2woof> these power bricks suck efficiency wise and get fairly hot after a while
[07:47:43] <amee2woof> i'm using one to replace all the wall warts in my room, but it seems that it died last night
[07:47:50] <GuShH> tld: weight? oh so that's why most chinese laptop PSUs I've opened had metal weights in them, right. check.
[07:47:56] <amee2woof> this morning all the rail voltages were 40% below normal
[07:47:59] <GuShH> You sir are one more consumer.
[07:48:39] <amee2woof> i wouldn't mind the metal weights if they bolted them to some transistors
[07:48:42] <GuShH> (Those were not heatsinks)
[07:48:45] <amee2woof> instead of glue them to the inside of the case :P
[07:48:48] <tld> GuShH: Was meant with a jokish-tone, but I suppose that didn't carry very well over IRC. ;)
[07:49:02] <GuShH> Nothing ever carries well over IRC
[07:49:05] <amee2woof> tld: actually, there was a time where that statement used to be generally true
[07:49:20] <tld> amee2woof: It still storta is, but it's simplified to the point of being wrong.
[07:49:25] <GuShH> People still tend to think heavier things are better.
[07:49:37] <GuShH> I even have a cheap desktop phone that has weights in it
[07:49:42] <theBear> lol
[07:49:55] <GuShH> From a design point of view the excuse here is that you don't want the phone to slide when you pick up
[07:50:10] <tld> Weight is still relevant. It can't prove quality, but it can dis-prove it. If you'd give me a 50A supply weighting 100 grams, I'd be highly sceptical.
[07:50:13] <amee2woof> if you account for tricks like adding metal weights, it still holds at least to some degree
[07:50:40] <GuShH> tld: Now or in 10 years?
[07:50:58] <tld> GuShH: Phones used to be customized for different markets. British models heavier than american ones.
[07:51:01] <tld> GuShH: Was thinking now.
[07:51:17] <tld> might be different it 10 years, depends on a lot of things really.
[07:51:27] <GuShH> Because the british phones had to have a mustard dispenser.
[07:52:13] <GuShH> tld: overall efficiency increase assumed in 10 years would decrease power waste thus less heatsinking required thus less weight
[07:52:26] <GuShH> Mostly to do with improvements in mosfet technology.
[07:52:36] <GuShH> But wait, perhaps we'll have new fet types.
[07:52:40] <GuShH> And a jetpack.
[07:52:49] <tld> GuShH: Yes, but takes more than a MosFET and a heatsink to make a PSU.
[07:52:58] <tld> I was mostly thinking of magnetics.
[07:53:08] <tld> (which we might not use for that kind of thing in 10 years, but who knows?)
[07:53:19] <amee2woof> lots of power supplies use the good old bipolar push-pull design with a drive transformer
[07:53:59] <GuShH> tld: magnetics will get smaller if you go higher up the freq spectrum
[07:54:23] <GuShH> in 10 years.... I'd say coils still will be mainstream :p
[07:55:03] * GuShH push-pulls amee2woof's tail
[07:55:13] * amee2woof squeaks and pounces GuShH :D
[07:55:22] <GuShH> I think I just got "one of those" eBay offers...
[07:55:31] <GuShH> you know, the impulse buy and then they realize they don't want it
[07:55:38] <theBear> yeah, things like coils and hi-freq are pretty much what has revolutionised electronics and made things like 1000w powersupplies weigh a few hundred grams, i don't see us coming up with much better
[07:56:24] <tld> switched cap design?
[07:56:53] <GuShH> theBear: I do!
[07:57:03] <GuShH> damn we have transformers on PCBs
[07:57:21] <theBear> wtf ? i thought i was strengthening your argument <grin>
[07:57:24] <amee2woof> i wish they'd start coming up with things that last longer than two years
[07:57:39] <GuShH> Also it's only a matter of time before one of those crazy free-energy bastards figures out something useful, or not.
[07:57:44] <theBear> i don't think i have anything younger than 2 years
[07:57:45] * GuShH rofls
[07:57:54] <theBear> my new computer is 2007 dated
[07:58:02] <amee2woof> theBear: then most of it is probably at least 10 years ;)
[07:58:03] <GuShH> so it's not really new
[07:58:24] <theBear> i didn't have it last week, AND it's a ton 'better' than every other pc i got
[07:58:24] <GuShH> amee2woof: for example?
[07:58:34] <GuShH> ah so it's new to you!
[07:58:37] <amee2woof> for example what?
[07:58:44] * tld heads off
[07:58:47] <GuShH> I'm looking at a 2 year old laptop... well 1 year, this year don't count.
[07:58:50] <GuShH> stupid lenovo.
[07:59:05] <GuShH> amee2woof: what lasted less than 2 years aside from the PSU?
[07:59:33] <GuShH> theBear: I realized I'll probably never own top of the line brand new hardware
[07:59:56] <GuShH> such as, getting the absolute last in the market every time.
[08:00:06] <amee2woof> so much crap
[08:00:07] <theBear> i had/built a mid-high line pc around err, early this century
[08:00:28] <GuShH> theBear: but they do last when you get the best you can afford
[08:00:29] <amee2woof> USB sticks, hubs, a mouse... even a fucking audio cable died after a few weeks
[08:00:34] <GuShH> assuming you know what you're doing
[08:00:51] <GuShH> I try to make my own cables whenever I can
[08:00:53] <theBear> but even then i would never have gone top of the line, i mean, any given year in the last 15, look at the 'best' intel cpu, vs the 2nd and 3rd, you pay 4-8times premium for having the top of the line
[08:01:16] <GuShH> true, well top of the line within reason
[08:01:17] <theBear> amee2woof, maybe you are out of control, some kind of rage-a-holic (dependant on rageahol)
[08:01:22] <GuShH> those are for rich kids and drug lords.
[08:01:33] <amee2woof> theBear: wat?
[08:01:45] <GuShH> ragehoolawhat?
[08:02:10] <GuShH> laptops are, in general at least a third of what you can get on desktop... I realize.
[08:02:18] <GuShH> (for the same money, assuming you build it)
[08:02:45] <GuShH> but if you account for the lcd, extra peripherals and well you could even think about it as having a UPS...
[08:02:55] <GuShH> batteries ain't cheapo
[08:03:02] <theBear> well, i'm just saying, noone else complains about those things breaking that quickly, maybe err,
[08:03:11] <GuShH> they don't?
[08:03:14] <GuShH> what the hell man
[08:03:22] <GuShH> americans are on the leading edge of that market
[08:03:25] <GuShH> they complain about it all
[08:03:33] <GuShH> most of the internet traffic comes from their complaints
[08:03:37] <amee2woof> aaaanyway, since the old power supply died last night i'll need to get a new one
[08:03:44] <amee2woof> theBear: yes they do
[08:03:56] <GuShH> I just saw a laptop review and they complained about the finish "getting dirty fast"
[08:04:01] <GuShH> others complained that it would scratch easily
[08:04:04] <GuShH> ....
[08:04:15] <GuShH> that's what soft-touch is and does, you bought it nobody forced you to.
[08:04:29] <theBear> wtf are these reviewers doing ? it's not like they have the laptop for 6 months, how dirty could they get it ?
[08:04:39] <GuShH> I said American.
[08:04:52] <GuShH> They're eating some greasy shit while watching some shit reality show.
[08:05:02] * GuShH won't apologize for that, it's true
[08:05:24] <GuShH> Actually I have greasy fingers :(
[08:05:32] <GuShH> Even though I wash my hands all the time
[08:05:48] <theBear> mmm, reminds me of a kid i knew in school... back then you had to visit people with a box of disks if you wanted new games, this guy was rich, he had a LOT of games, so i visited now and again, but my god ! his keyboard was always greasy, the chairs had food bits all over them, the whole place was just horrible
[08:06:11] <ike> GuShH you are in America right?
[08:06:19] <ike> so you are an American.
[08:06:19] <GuShH> technically
[08:06:26] <GuShH> I'm a south-american
[08:06:29] <ike> with greasy fingers
[08:06:33] <ike> but still
[08:06:38] <GuShH> So in their eyes I speak MEXICAN
[08:06:38] <ike> you are American.
[08:06:47] <ike> or spanish
[08:06:48] <theBear> GuShH, me too, specially in this weather... back when i used to do carpenting/building stuff on occasionally very fancy things/houses, the kind where people sometimes where white cotton gloves, it was terrible, i could clean my hands and leave black marks 5 minutes later, the white gloves just kinda turned black when i wore them
[08:07:11] <GuShH> My last keyword ended up like the das keyboard (the one without silkscreen)
[08:07:34] <GuShH> I would've kept it except for the fact it looked like something out of a post apocalyptic war
[08:08:13] <GuShH> theBear: I don't know why :(
[08:08:28] <GuShH> I would suck at crime, leaving all those fingerprints heh
[08:08:37] <GuShH> METAL ETCHING FINGERPRINTS
[08:08:41] <theBear> i recently got gifted this sucker, decent feeling keys and a FINGERPRINT READER! so i using it for now, but my old old old osborne no matter how dirty or worn, seems to have undamagable markings on the keys
[08:08:44] <theBear> they're like new
[08:08:48] <GuShH> That's right, I got an atx case here with an etched fingerprint
[08:09:26] <GuShH> ike: I like Americans, except for all of the above.
[08:09:34] <theBear> the fingerprint reader is kinda cool, still fiddling with things like making it do my name AND password for logins etc, but i haven't been able to fool it, tried a few friends fingers, various ones of my own etc etc
[08:09:58] <GuShH> Stuffing your face with bacon while wasting your time on some crappy reality show (most of their tv is comprised of reality shows) is something I don't agree with.
[08:10:15] <GuShH> theBear: can I fool it for you?
[08:10:26] <theBear> seems your 'average person' here isn't much better on the tv show selection these days
[08:10:37] <theBear> i dunno, can you ? gonna be hard from there, unless you got a REALLY long finger
[08:10:41] <GuShH> theBear: hot glue, copy your fingerprint, then try that with a bit of moisture, if it doesn't work, make a positive out of the negative with some extra hotglue and oil.
[08:10:59] <GuShH> I wonder how long such readers would last me
[08:11:15] <GuShH> I'm not sure they care for humidity, then again I never fiddled with one.
[08:11:15] <theBear> yeah, i seen movies too, and i'd be surprised if that didn't work, but i'm not a paranoid security nut, noone i don't trust is ever near my pc, and i just like the novelty :)
[08:11:34] <GuShH> oh not movies, it works for a lot of the door locks they use these days
[08:11:41] <theBear> haven't even looked up how this works, but i assume it's something like a scanner
[08:11:51] <GuShH> yeah
[08:12:02] <theBear> like i said, i'd be surprised if it didn't work, but i still learned it from movies, or maybe a cop show
[08:12:15] <GuShH> I think about it as a wider mouse imager
[08:12:33] <theBear> i like in the avengers, well, what i thought was gonna happen, i woulda taken the eyeball
[08:12:34] <GuShH> but is it 1d or 2d?
[08:12:51] <theBear> i dunno, it's in the keyboard, and it makes me smile
[08:12:54] <GuShH> soon we'll have eyeball sockets on our laptops, just pop your eye out and put it in.
[08:14:35] <GuShH> theBear: I remember when those readers just came out
[08:14:38] <GuShH> they would cost a small fortune
[08:14:53] * GuShH is paranoid about security but in a good way
[08:14:59] <GuShH> I think you are too, you just don't realize it.
[08:15:19] <GuShH> If you ever found yourself scanning a building for cameras, microphones, sensors.... you are like me.
[08:15:22] <chap34> If I want to encrypt a char can I just xor it with multiple keys which are 1 byte in length?
[08:15:28] <GuShH> Sometimes you'll do it without even thinking
[08:15:29] <chap34> Or is there a better way?
[08:15:44] <GuShH> chap34: what's the application?
[08:15:48] <GuShH> and why the need to encrypt
[08:15:53] <chap34> GuShH, It's for a design task.
[08:15:58] <GuShH> there are ways, all can be reversed.
[08:16:03] <theBear> nah, i'm realistic, i got things i'm very worried about, but other things i don't care about, and i scanned buildings for cameras and crap since i was a little kid, not sure why then, privacy maybe, but these days it's because i don't agree with all laws, but also don't like getting caught
[08:16:09] <chap34> Have a secure link between two points over a longish wire.
[08:16:17] <chap34> Which sends single chars one way.
[08:16:29] <GuShH> theBear: I'm scared.... in town there are over 2000 new cameras
[08:16:40] <GuShH> all with a fiberoptic link
[08:16:46] <specing> GuShH: mount IR LEDs on your head
[08:16:50] <GuShH> haha
[08:16:56] <specing> you'll glow on cameras
[08:17:00] <GuShH> IR sunglasses
[08:17:07] * GuShH wears sunglasses at night)
[08:17:14] <GuShH> not really. it's just a song.
[08:17:27] <GuShH> I'd bump into stuff and probably get run over if I did
[08:17:31] <chap34> GuShH, What do you think, is it more secure to xor with multiple keys or not?
[08:17:45] <theBear> GuShH, do you often assault people or buy drugs or drink in the street ? if not, that's just fine
[08:17:48] <chap34> I haven't really studied encryption.
[08:17:48] <GuShH> I think it's a waste of resources
[08:17:54] <specing> chap34: AES-256 it
[08:18:00] <GuShH> theBear: I don't but they can track you
[08:18:04] <GuShH> with facial recognition
[08:18:10] <GuShH> I'm not paranoid, it's there. seen it.
[08:18:18] <specing> GuShH: IR leds!
[08:18:30] <theBear> yeah, well, auto-facial is a little worrying, but at the same time i'm quite comfortable (currently) in the knowledge that i'm not worth tracking
[08:18:39] <chap34> specing, Won't that take a while on avr to encrypt?
[08:18:58] <GuShH> it... eh... without extra hardware.... ehh...
[08:19:08] <theBear> i got many years of experience with who and how they track (practical/circumstantial evidence) and yeah, i'm far from worried
[08:19:10] <specing> chap34: yup
[08:19:12] <GuShH> if you could implement it... and if it would fit.... let's say yes.
[08:19:23] <chap34> specing, Any idea on how many clock cycles for one char?
[08:19:39] <specing> chap34: no idea, 100?
[08:19:42] <GuShH> these days hardware implementations are in HDDs and they do it transparently
[08:19:46] <chap34> Oh OK that's not too bad.
[08:19:56] <specing> GuShH: backdoors?
[08:20:03] <GuShH> encryption
[08:20:15] <specing> GuShH: software-encrypt it for additional safety
[08:20:21] <GuShH> theBear: not worried in that regard.
[08:20:31] <GuShH> specing: safety is a made up word
[08:20:53] <GuShH> there are even guns you can fire with the safety on. why, design flaws. why, humans.
[08:20:55] <theBear> in recent years, i kinda think i'm indifferent to that kind of thing anyway, all day i've been seriously considering some level of incarceration so i get free food in the immediate future
[08:21:07] <GuShH> hah
[08:21:39] * GuShH tends to think prisons should not exist
[08:21:53] <GuShH> Just get an island and dump them in there. Or use the chair.
[08:22:29] <GuShH> "Human rights".... bullshit, they weren't quite thinking about your human rights when they shot, raped, etc. you right?
[08:22:52] <specing> GuShH: done https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_otok
[08:22:52] <theBear> hey, that's what they did here and look how it turned out ! i say kill them, but i can't say it publically until i feel that laws are fair, and history shows that laws and rules will change, and tehrefore i can't say it at all
[08:23:26] <GuShH> specing: more famously, alcatras (or alcatraz?)
[08:23:34] <GuShH> but that was an actual prison, on an island.
[08:23:39] <GuShH> I just mean a deserted island, throw 'em there.
[08:24:04] <theBear> tho as a prison, heck, i can't see a way i could leave this country now and they're not even trying to keep me here, without planes or boats or any kind of regular transports... then again, yeah, i woulda hijacked a boat
[08:24:06] <specing> GuShH: goli otok was a deserted island
[08:24:14] <specing> GuShH: on which the prisoners build the prison
[08:24:14] <GuShH> specing: it mentions a prison
[08:24:20] <theBear> hehe, this was a deserted island, well if you don't count nomadic-ish natives
[08:24:21] <specing> the prisoners built it
[08:24:27] <GuShH> not on their own will
[08:24:33] <specing> indeed
[08:24:35] <GuShH> wait, that's a stupid idea.
[08:24:38] <GuShH> they could've built backdoors
[08:24:54] <GuShH> such as it's very stupid to leave the construction of a bank in the open
[08:25:08] <GuShH> I for instance know exactly how a few banks are planed out because I've seen the construction sites
[08:25:19] <GuShH> not that I can or want to do anything with the information though
[08:26:54] <GuShH> theBear: if you had all the time in the world on an island... you'd build a boat
[08:27:20] <GuShH> Worst thing that could happen is if the island has valuable resources though
[08:27:34] <theBear> maybe, maybe i'd just tom-cruise it up, make friends with a flat soccerball and try to enjoy myself
[08:27:50] <theBear> damned brain
[08:27:56] <GuShH> I thought it was a volley ball
[08:27:58] <theBear> that other guy, turner and hooch, aids,
[08:28:05] <theBear> jewish
[08:28:09] <GuShH> it was tom hanks
[08:28:13] <theBear> actually, you might be right
[08:28:26] <GuShH> tom cruise is the crazy one that jumps up and down on black women sofas
[08:28:28] <theBear> yeah, i walked halfway across the room before i noticed
[08:28:33] <theBear> yeah, i know him
[08:28:52] <GuShH> like, really hyped up on scientology, jump up and down up and down
[08:28:59] <theBear> i know this guy too, he's awesome, answer all his questions
[08:29:03] <GuShH> EMETERS
[08:29:16] <specing> < GuShH> theBear: if you had all the time in the world on an island... you'd build a boat
[08:29:20] <specing> there were no trees
[08:29:26] <GuShH> concrete boat
[08:29:30] <specing> LOL
[08:29:34] <GuShH> they are real.
[08:29:40] <theBear> we're kinda assuming an island with boat building materials
[08:29:44] <GuShH> specing: you can just use raincoats
[08:29:51] <GuShH> and make your own adhesive
[08:29:57] <GuShH> or steal some
[08:30:02] <dirty_d> i ordered that stm32f3 discovery board
[08:30:10] <GuShH> assumingg there's a build site, like in that case.... you would've had access to materials
[08:30:35] <GuShH> theBear: because ... tree huggers would force us to give them a few crates of stuff
[08:30:41] <GuShH> and they'll get creative.
[08:31:16] <GuShH> heck give them enough time and they would either eat themselves up or start a foundry, make a revolver and when they get to the mainland they'll fck you up bro!
[08:31:36] <GuShH> convoluted revenge plans are the best.
[08:31:48] <specing> well in any case there were armed guards nearby
[08:32:03] <specing> armed as in sub-machine guns
[08:32:49] <GuShH> http://i.qkme.me/3rzhx8.jpg
[08:32:57] <GuShH> :p
[08:33:34] <GuShH> I couldn't find a screenshot of the fish from futurama... the one with a revolver.
[08:34:01] <GuShH> ( he flushed it down the toilet but it was actually alive and seeked revenge ever since )
[08:37:12] <dirty_d> specing, where is the datasheet for the stm32f3s with the actual register descriptions and stuff?
[08:37:23] <dirty_d> the one on the st site is just an overview
[08:37:49] <specing> dirty_d: the hell should I know
[08:37:56] <specing> I use stellarises
[08:38:02] <dirty_d> specing, because youre a cortex-M4 fanboy
[08:38:06] <dirty_d> jk
[08:38:07] <specing> ask #stm32
[08:38:20] <GuShH> theBear: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/16/gummi_bears_defeat_fingerprint_sensors/
[08:38:34] <dirty_d> ok
[08:39:07] <GuShH> actually I doubt gelatine is used in gummi bears, they use guar gum and other nasty shit.
[08:39:13] <GuShH> stupid impressionist journalists
[08:40:02] <theBear> impressionist ? isn't that when you draw a person with half the parts missing and soem triangles for decoration ?
[08:40:38] <GuShH> lol
[08:42:27] <GuShH> what a bunch of bull http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/08/snapchat/
[08:45:30] <tzanger> morning
[08:46:06] * GuShH waves to tzanger
[08:46:14] <GuShH> with what, I can't tell you without using snapchat.
[08:46:42] <tzanger> dirty_d: I'm sure you can find it on their website
[08:47:26] <tzanger> yep it's there
[08:47:38] <tzanger> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/REFERENCE_MANUAL/DM00043574.pdf
[08:47:44] <tzanger> http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/PROGRAMMING_MANUAL/DM00046982.pdf
[08:47:59] <tzanger> they follow TI's example and break everything into a dozen manuals that can be shared between different processors
[08:48:32] <tzanger> actually ST isn't as bad as TI in that regard
[08:48:39] <tzanger> they only have the programming manual and the reference manual
[08:48:54] <Steffanx> fyi specing: It's ##stm32 :P
[08:49:17] <GuShH> bah we were talking about interesting topics, nobody cares about stm!
[08:49:30] <Steffanx> YES BOSS
[08:49:48] <GuShH> why isn't my code refactored by now?
[08:49:59] <GuShH> I said there aren't enough smileys in this code, chop chop.
[08:50:10] <tzanger> lol
[08:50:32] <dirty_d> tzanger, yea found it, lol
[08:50:38] <tzanger> actually I have to start reading the bandgap reference on my AT90CAN, I have a suspicion that the 2.56v reference is wandering around
[08:52:07] <GuShH> theBear: ever had flexing issues with plastic laptops?
[08:52:58] <theBear> umm, don't think so, not very smart right now
[08:53:12] <GuShH> not enough pills or too much pills? hard to tell
[08:54:32] <theBear> heh, minimum i'm supposed to take
[09:01:34] <tzanger> GuShH: my old laptop flexed a fair bit. I'm on a macbook air now and there's zero flex, which is very nice
[09:01:53] <GuShH> tzanger: but did it flex to death?
[09:01:54] <GuShH> heh
[09:02:17] <GuShH> amee2woof: hmm if some thinkpads have a 3 year warranty period, I'd say they ought to last over 2 years right?
[09:02:20] <tzanger> GuShH: not quite to death, but the plastic case did crack and if I continued to use it it would not have surprised me if it eventually broke.
[09:02:32] <tzanger> the plastic around the left display hinge did break a while back
[09:02:44] <GuShH> I got a dead lappy here the BGAs on the northbridge or the graphics chipset went poof.
[09:02:58] <tzanger> ah see I never had *circuit* flexing to that extent
[09:03:16] <tzanger> and a board with parts on both sides would be... interesting to try to reflow
[09:03:25] <GuShH> at least one side is glued
[09:03:37] <GuShH> that means the parts won't fall
[09:03:53] <GuShH> unless you cook the board in which case the glue degrades and the parts begin to fall but by then you've damaged it all
[09:03:57] <tzanger> yes, the heavier parts are glued
[09:04:03] <tzanger> but it'd still be a challenge I think
[09:04:23] <GuShH> I reflowed the video chipset, didn't work. haven't tried with the other bga
[09:04:24] <tzanger> and you don't know for sure if it was the balls on the BGAs that cracked or if they pulled the vias up out of the board with them, which sometimes happens
[09:04:33] <GuShH> it won't boot at all.
[09:04:39] <GuShH> no post, no nothing.
[09:04:56] <GuShH> tzanger: I do attribute it to flexing though
[09:05:06] <amee2woof> GuShH: i have a 6+ years old latitude actually
[09:05:06] <GuShH> after all it's an ABS cage that poor mainboard sits on
[09:05:15] <GuShH> eew dell
[09:05:32] <GuShH> there's a reason I want a laptop with a magnesium rollcage heh
[09:06:53] * GuShH isn't sure they make extended batteries for the T420s
[09:08:17] <GuShH> amee2woof: quite frankly that dead lappy wasn't mine, I didn't flex it to death.
[09:08:29] <tzanger> GuShH: yeah I don't doubt it, the motherboard is directly attached to the plastic frame
[09:08:41] <GuShH> I would not have bought such a piece of crap to begin with, you can clearly tell when a laptop won't last just by picking it up
[09:09:04] <amee2woof> guess why i didn't buy a new laptop since that latitude ;)
[09:09:13] <GuShH> tzanger: I took it all apart, the frame itself bends like a piece of cardboard...
[09:10:03] <GuShH> it actually depends on every other part for it's structural integrity (which is nearly 0)
[09:10:38] <GuShH> amee2woof: I don't know, maybe you're saving for a tail.
[09:18:10] <amee2woof> GuShH: for what a half decent laptop costs these days i could almost get a head, actually
[09:21:05] <tzanger> head must be really expensive where you live
[09:29:06] <amee2woof> tzanger: get *a* head :P
[09:29:32] <specing> Dont want to see ads anymore? Install adblock: http://bayimg.com/KaiJLAAeL
[09:30:18] <r00t|home> specing: "This web page at bayimg.com has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences."
[09:30:52] <amee2woof> http://d.facdn.net/art/ebonywolf99/1321460383.ebonywolf99_securedownload-2.jpeg
[09:30:59] <GuShH> amee2woof: haha
[09:31:04] <GuShH> wait a furry head costs 1000 usd?
[09:31:18] <GuShH> what the hell, I should become a furrist (is that what you call the guys who make the suits?)
[09:31:33] <amee2woof> depending on complexity, 500$ and up isn't uncommon
[09:31:35] <GuShH> wait, what if the furrist is a furry
[09:32:01] <amee2woof> they're usually called fursuit maker >_>
[09:32:20] <specing> r00t|home: its a image sharer from the piratebay folks
[09:32:43] <amee2woof> pretty much no two characters are the same, so the whole costume is custom comissioned usually
[09:33:04] <amee2woof> so most of the cost is the labor time, not the materials
[09:33:12] <GuShH> pft
[09:33:28] <GuShH> amee2woof: demand must be low though
[09:33:30] <r00t|home> specing: yeah, firefox security is silly...
[09:33:32] <amee2woof> and the head is the most complex part by far
[09:33:46] <GuShH> amee2woof: I would put fans on them for an extra $300
[09:33:55] <GuShH> and LEDs for an extra $200
[09:33:58] <GuShH> I have cheap prices
[09:34:09] <GuShH> you don't want to know where the battery goes though.
[09:34:20] <amee2woof> http://d.facdn.net/art/foxlover324/1261798323.foxlover324_img_0720.jpg here is a foam base head before the fur is put on
[09:34:24] * GuShH points at the tail
[09:34:37] <GuShH> I know how to build that kind of thing...
[09:34:46] <GuShH> I was once on a full body fur suit for a play
[09:34:48] <amee2woof> what, sex toys? :>
[09:34:50] <GuShH> DONT TELL ANYONE I TOLD YOU THIS
[09:34:55] <GuShH> Oh shit.
[09:35:08] <amee2woof> XD
[09:35:59] <GuShH> amee2woof: I was a hyena :|
[09:36:09] <amee2woof> cute :3
[09:36:30] <GuShH> not so cute, as per the script
[09:37:32] <amee2woof> maybe you didn't find it cute :P
[09:37:37] <amee2woof> got pics?
[09:37:41] <GuShH> no, thank god.
[09:37:49] <GuShH> but there ought to be a video somewhere in the world.
[09:37:56] <GuShH> which is why I can't sleep at night.
[09:37:56] <amee2woof> also, why did you play the part of the hyena if you didn't like it?
[09:38:04] * GuShH shrugs
[09:38:12] <GuShH> They chose the lion king, I didn't.
[09:38:27] <GuShH> Because I don't like plays, that's when you get secondary characters.
[09:38:34] <tzanger> amee2woof: :-)
[09:38:46] <amee2woof> heh
[09:38:55] * GuShH was Ed or one of those 3.
[09:39:01] <amee2woof> thus, next time go for a main character
[09:39:17] <GuShH> Nah, I sweated way too much in that thing
[09:39:27] <amee2woof> hehe
[09:39:44] <GuShH> They looked great though, just not fun to wear.
[09:39:53] <amee2woof> cool :D
[09:39:54] <GuShH> same foam materials and all.
[09:40:04] <amee2woof> next time, tell them to set up a headless lounge lol
[09:40:32] <GuShH> well... backstage was ok, at least you got to watch the play for free
[09:41:14] <GuShH> actually now I remember someone forgot their mic on while they were on backstage, the sound guy wasn't paying attention...
[09:41:26] <amee2woof> lol
[09:41:59] <GuShH> I would imagine you know which characters correspond to which channels and you fade off / mute as they go out the stage...
[09:42:30] <GuShH> In case not enough channels are available and they share mics, you get a time table, again... I assume. maybe theBear would know better.
[09:44:35] <amee2woof> mic channels are usually cheap
[09:45:12] <amee2woof> but yeah, thats kinda embarrassing
[09:45:14] <GuShH> you only get so many of them
[09:45:43] <amee2woof> and i SO know how that goes... we had like /the/ scenario that is always ridiculed in comedy shows happen once
[09:45:51] <GuShH> must've been a crappy audio company, half of them had discharged batteries
[09:46:08] <amee2woof> someone with a wireless mic goes to the bathroom and the sound guy can't find which channel he is on anymore
[09:46:14] <GuShH> you'd think they'd have a policy about that
[09:46:20] <GuShH> LOL
[09:46:44] <GuShH> amee2woof: the girls that were backstage were also on the restroom, but they were just talking about how nervous they were...
[09:46:48] <GuShH> and giggling.
[09:46:56] <amee2woof> until someone told him to just turn down the main mix until he can find it
[09:47:01] <GuShH> no piss or poop sound effects :(
[09:47:26] <GuShH> I guess in other countries you wouldn't mind the extra show
[09:47:27] <GuShH> think Mexico.
[09:47:49] <amee2woof> it was a dynamic mic so unless you knew he was going to the bathroom, it wasn't very obvious what exactly you were hearing
[09:48:13] <GuShH> I hear sinking ships captain!
[09:48:44] <GuShH> relatively low budget plays crack me up
[09:48:56] <GuShH> or even shows in general
[09:49:13] <amee2woof> mystery science theater 3000?
[09:49:19] <GuShH> once on a pub we stared at this musician guy for 10 minutes while he untangled the cable for his guitar xD
[09:49:30] <GuShH> I couldn't stop laughing
[09:49:36] <amee2woof> lol
[09:49:51] <amee2woof> http://www.youtube.com/user/Tromamovies :3
[09:51:00] <GuShH> o.O
[09:51:07] <amee2woof> what? :P
[09:51:16] <GuShH> who knows what youtube may suggest after I watch one of those
[09:51:21] <amee2woof> how much lower budget do you want?
[09:51:30] <GuShH> is it lower than any Indian movie ever made?
[09:51:37] <GuShH> (I can't stand those)
[09:51:43] <amee2woof> lol no idea
[09:51:46] <GuShH> why the flying hell do they have to dance all the time
[09:51:54] <GuShH> I would bomb them if I could.
[09:52:26] <GuShH> just look up "bollywood"
[09:52:48] <amee2woof> a friend of mine once browsed furry youtube videos for an afternoon until he realized that he was still logged in with the company youtube account :3
[09:53:01] <GuShH> lol
[09:55:00] <GuShH> amee2woof: massive wtf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEXlvat5GA
[09:55:35] <GuShH> and that's not the worse out there.
[09:55:38] <GuShH> worst*
[10:52:31] <theBear> oh, keeping track of wireless mics is often a nightmare... real theatre is great from a light/sound technician pov, everyone has strict cues for everything they do (moving, speaking, where they stop, when they need to be ready for stage or dressed some way), so you just follow your sheet and flip it off/down when they are offstage without thinking.... but when you've got some amatuer monkies, maybe at some kind of demo/catwalk or i dunno, something with l
[10:52:32] <theBear> ots of untrained peoples wearing radio mics, it can be quite a nightmare... keeping track of who goes where and who is standing in front of a huge speaker and squeeking away without even noticing it's directly related to their movement
[10:52:46] <theBear> i'll stop now, i been rambling, new pills are very err, effective
[11:02:57] <GuShH> theBear: they were told what to do, they were just careless
[11:03:34] <GuShH> ohh found a mirror to the brother ftp http://www.mmnt.net/db/0/0/ftp.brother.ca/MANUELS_MANUALS/English/
[11:03:37] <GuShH> let's hope the manual is there
[11:03:53] <theBear> you really into achieving what they other guy never will now :)
[11:04:00] <GuShH> oh crap
[11:04:03] <GuShH> it's not really a mirror
[11:04:27] <GuShH> theBear: it has an interface, I just need a pinout or some manual to guide me
[11:04:31] <Tom_itx> theBear, make a device (cattle prod) that is activated upon feedback noise and attach it to said participant
[11:04:33] <GuShH> I don't want to tear it all apart and start reversing at this point
[11:05:40] * GuShH doesn't have a logic analyzer
[11:06:09] * Tom_itx GuShH should have a logic analyzer
[11:06:17] <GuShH> one day
[11:07:08] <GuShH> I can't find a box where I used to keep every manual I ever owned
[11:07:27] <Tom_itx> i got rid of a bunch of em
[11:08:22] <GuShH> All I could find online was an ad for that particular typewriter heh
[11:08:59] <theBear> Tom_itx, heh, if i ever do something like that again, screw being professional for the company, i'll do that :)
[11:09:30] <theBear> i'm confused, i should stop talking, it's taking everything i got to keep things short and say what needs to be said
[11:09:51] <GuShH> pft don't filter yourself
[11:12:11] <theBear> i try not to, few weeks before my last crippling/end of work, possibly the very day the insides of my back initially burst, i did convincingly and honestly threaten (quietly of course) to kill a teacher up on stage in front of maybe 100 kids, but damn, he did bad and could very well have deafened a bunch of those kids by doing it, not to mention decided to start 15minutes before the end of the break
[11:12:53] <theBear> dammit, drifted from the point, i used to enjoy being a good soundguy, and a large part of that is being able to efficiently and effectively handle ANYONE that acts to hinder that goal
[11:13:44] <theBear> a small part of THAT, is being able to convince someone with gentle words and your eyes, that you really do mean exactly what you are saying, and that they should listen as hard as they f(*king can :)
[11:14:06] <theBear> took a few years to get the hang of it, but i got it for life now
[11:15:29] <Tom_itx> you got that death ray eyeball look too ehh?
[11:18:35] <theBear> years of being surrounded by drunken fools and 'rockstars' and monkey 'soundguys' who want to blow the hell out of your speakers, AND do a shittier job than you would have without ever hearing the band before, i think you gotta get the look or just give up
[11:19:35] <theBear> sure technical skills are important, but if you can't get equipment through a crowd, or convince an idiot to put his guitar amp in the right place, or a bass guy that he doesn't need ALL of his 2000w setup when there's only 10 people in the bar...
[11:24:52] <GuShH> lol
[11:27:03] <theBear> that one always amazes me... tuesday night maybe, quiet pub, and guys are loading in quadbox after quadbox, several spare/different guitars, it's one thing enjoying playing out, but get a grip
[11:28:22] <OndraSter> I was always wondering - how can they be playing on 2kW stuff?
[11:28:29] <OndraSter> I mean, my 2x40W blows away whole house
[11:29:25] <Tom_itx> it lets you 'feel' it instead of 'hear' it
[11:29:33] <OndraSter> :D
[11:29:36] <OndraSter> 6Hz!
[11:29:39] <OndraSter> the brown frequency!
[11:30:00] <theBear> to SOME extent bass does need more power and/or much larger speakers to actually do what it needs to do, AND you don't get the full effect of 10 or 20' soundwaves standing 5' from the cabinet, but, they're just silly
[11:30:19] <OndraSter> of course
[11:30:24] <OndraSter> but still
[11:30:25] <OndraSter> 2kW?!
[11:30:37] <OndraSter> I would understand 100W just for the bass
[11:30:46] <Tom_itx> it's good for melting chokes
[11:30:48] <OndraSter> for laaaaaarge concerts 2kW maybe
[11:30:53] <OndraSter> but for a pub-sized stuff?
[11:31:07] <theBear> well, once you go past a big 'bass guitar amp' at maybe 300-400w, you gotta start buying small pa amps, you know, exactly like the ones that run the big speakers next to the stage for the WHOLE FREAKING ROOM to hear the band
[11:31:29] <theBear> no excuse really, but, silly band people are just like that
[11:31:35] <theBear> not the sensible ones, but the silly ones
[11:31:35] * GuShH stares at a bunch of caps branded "ChingX"
[11:32:04] <OndraSter> lol chingx
[11:32:08] <OndraSter> the cheapest china I thimnk
[11:32:09] <OndraSter> think
[11:32:27] <creep> h
[11:32:28] <theBear> i always exclaim like you just did at the guitar amps, 100-200w into fairly efficient drivers, 8 of which they pile up in two big square boxes behind them
[11:32:40] <theBear> speakers as tall as you ~! for a guitar !
[11:32:52] <OndraSter> I have got two tall towers
[11:33:07] <OndraSter> http://media0.iplace.cz/images/media0:4b4a679006e73.jpg/RS%20534.jpg
[11:33:27] <GuShH> OndraSter: that's hard to tell, which brand is the cheapest...
[11:33:27] <creep> well i think 2x80W is not much
[11:33:50] <GuShH> creep: it's a lot unless you live in an airport
[11:33:52] <creep> but in a 5x5m room, 2x300w sounds a little overkill
[11:33:54] <theBear> yeah, for the area between maybe 150 and 2000cycles, these ones are a LOT louder than yours
[11:34:04] <theBear> but they don't sound nice for anything that's not guitar
[11:34:26] <creep> accidentally i was currently designing opamp active filter
[11:34:48] <theBear> sidenote: electric and accoustic guitars don't output very 'nice' signals, guitar (pre)amps and speakers have 'horrible' characteristic eqs to 'fix' this
[11:35:45] <GuShH> in other words, they sound like a fart through a paper cup.
[11:36:05] <creep> let's say you have 300W bass, 150W middle, and 25-80W tweeter
[11:36:46] <OndraSter> good amp makes a huge difference in the sound btw
[11:36:58] <creep> TDA7294 ?
[11:36:59] <creep> :)
[11:37:07] <OndraSter> I am using oold class A amp
[11:37:14] <creep> try this, its cooool
[11:37:21] <creep> mosfet output class AB
[11:37:29] <OndraSter> nice
[11:37:38] <creep> 85W sine < <0.5% thd+N
[11:37:48] <OndraSter> I've read that almost all these TDA* are awful
[11:37:53] <creep> yes
[11:37:57] <creep> this one is cool
[11:37:58] <theBear> what's +N ?
[11:38:01] <creep> that is noise
[11:38:09] <GuShH> they were ok for car audio back in their day
[11:38:11] <theBear> aren't the 72 series the switching ones ?
[11:38:12] <GuShH> not anymore
[11:38:17] <creep> this is class AB
[11:38:28] <theBear> i'll take that as a confirmed no
[11:38:41] <OndraSter> http://www.nrpavs.co.nz/archive/Sold_htm/TechnicsSU-500.htm
[11:38:43] <OndraSter> I am using this
[11:39:02] * GuShH offers theBear some booze in exchange for mowing the lawn
[11:40:20] <theBear> i've seen those new switching tda's and similar in a bunch of new products recently, they're HORRIBLE ! for a start you get maybe 5v p-p of switching noise seen with the rated load, which i think is unacceptable, they do this horrible thing when they clip, within their ratings they can't sustain 'full output power' on a sinewave signal, only 'music' which is generally considered to be about 1/2 the average power of a sine
[11:40:33] <creep> :)
[11:40:36] <theBear> well judging from tonight i shouldn't tdrink on these pills, so bring it on :)
[11:40:40] <creep> i have seen some switching junk too
[11:41:00] <creep> the good ones are good for bass < 1khz
[11:41:02] <theBear> i'm good at mowing lawns, and i can take 'long dead' 2stroke engines and bring them back to life like a err, engine whisperer
[11:41:51] <GuShH> theBear: haha, it's a 4 stroker... changed the oil last week actually
[11:41:54] <theBear> the GOOD switching stuff is pretty awesome until you gotta fix it, even the first big ones in the country (world?) the camco vortex series, that vortex6 could do 3000w/side(2) all night and be blowing room temp air at the end of it
[11:42:02] <GuShH> if the manual says to change it once a year, change it twice a year.
[11:42:14] <creep> btw the tda2005 for example likes to oscillate with itself and burn
[11:42:20] <OndraSter> lol
[11:42:28] <tzanger> I havent' changed the oil on my '99 passat 1.8t in... a year?
[11:42:36] <GuShH> jeez
[11:42:39] <GuShH> do you drive a lot?
[11:42:42] <theBear> then again, have them on a slightly bodgy generator, and they kinda lockup and blast 3000w of stupid freq at you until you pwoer cycle
[11:42:48] <GuShH> it must look like petrol sludge by now
[11:42:59] <GuShH> oil not only gets "used" it also gets old.
[11:43:10] <GuShH> so it's detergent properties are diminished as it gets spent...
[11:43:14] <theBear> jeez, what do you mean by a lot ? i never seen oil that young look really bad
[11:43:23] <GuShH> essentially it's less and less efficient with time and use
[11:43:51] <tzanger> GuShH: yes, actually. probably 40kkm
[11:43:54] <creep> with 3kW audio you can make goatrance party in the forest
[11:43:57] <GuShH> theBear: well for instance lawn mowers work nearly at WOT all the time, the oil doesn't last 6 months in a warm climate
[11:44:00] <tzanger> GuShH: it's not too bad actually
[11:44:01] <theBear> wtf? did i just miss 2 phonecalls ? i wonder if i'm one of the select % that gets major confusion, speech problems and hallucinations with these pills
[11:44:07] <tzanger> black for sure, but still relatively clean
[11:44:21] <GuShH> tzanger: what you see on the dipstick is not a very good comparison if you don't know what you're seeing
[11:44:22] <GuShH> makes sense?
[11:44:32] <GuShH> it may look clear but it's going to be pitch black as a whole.
[11:44:34] <theBear> creep, heh, with almost 20kW of techno and a few longthrow 2" horns on top, you can get complaints 42km from a quarry :)
[11:44:45] <GuShH> that means it's heavily infused in carbon
[11:44:46] <tzanger> GuShH: I know. I do use good synthetic but it's still far beyond what I'd recommend for a change
[11:44:59] <tzanger> theBear: lol
[11:45:22] <GuShH> tzanger: your engine not mine
[11:45:30] <tzanger> GuShH: yeah I know
[11:45:42] <creep> will 2kW scare away predators in the forest?
[11:45:46] <tzanger> it's got 320kkm on it, it's due for a timing belt change (I have that kit in my trunk right now actually)
[11:45:58] <GuShH> people tend to regard passats as taxi cars over here :/
[11:46:05] <theBear> sometimes i miss doing the big pas... not the truck loading and stacking and packing up, but just kinda sitting back surrounded by crystal clear noise and tickled by tons of bass, looking at rack after rack of amps glowing away, thinking, wow, yeah, that's kinda cool
[11:46:07] <GuShH> YA THINK?
[11:46:11] <tzanger> replaced the vac lines (they were shot) I'm pretty sure the PCV needs to be replaced as well
[11:46:12] <GuShH> wait, it was never replaced?
[11:46:15] <GuShH> nor the water pump?
[11:46:15] <tzanger> GuShH: yeah I like this car
[11:46:18] <tzanger> GuShH: no no
[11:46:26] <GuShH> 140k and you are risking it
[11:46:31] <theBear> what kinda predators ? there was a raping at a 'rave' here in the late 90s, they would had over 2kw
[11:46:32] <tzanger> blew the engine about 4 or 5y ago because I didn't change it
[11:46:44] <theBear> they don't have parties at that spot anymore
[11:46:47] <GuShH> 160k is the maximum recommended for most VW TDIs for example even though idiots will tell you it's 60k
[11:46:49] <creep> theBear<< you know, animals, bears,
[11:46:49] <tzanger> rebuilt 120kmkm ago, the timing belt is due probably twice over now
[11:47:08] <GuShH> tzanger: rebuilt as in new valves I guess
[11:47:10] <tzanger> yeah y factory belt blew at ~200kkm
[11:47:22] <GuShH> also here, when that happens they say "new engine" just because they pulled up the cover
[11:47:23] <GuShH> it's bullshit.
[11:47:30] <tzanger> GuShH: rebuilt as in new valves, resurfaced the pistons/heads, put new rings in... rebuilt.
[11:47:39] <tzanger> it was a mess
[11:47:39] <theBear> most animals, and noise really upsets ducks (we negotiated one time with a nearby duck farmer :) apparently, but i dunno about bears, haven't dealt with many big ones in the wild, they're err, fun size here
[11:47:50] <GuShH> that's because the valves bend up when the timing goes
[11:47:53] <tzanger> yep
[11:47:56] <tzanger> interference engine ftw
[11:47:59] <tzanger> well ftl
[11:48:01] <GuShH> -_-
[11:48:24] <tzanger> and if it goes again it won't be rebuilt
[11:48:26] <GuShH> I know how to do a timing belt change and water pump change, I just haven't grown balls to do it on my oen
[11:48:26] <GuShH> own
[11:48:27] <tzanger> the car's 14 years old
[11:48:43] <GuShH> releaving the engine of it's side mounts is something I wouldn't try by myself
[11:48:50] <tzanger> GuShH: this would be my first attempt at it. I did the clutch with the help of a more mechanically-inclined friend last year (when teh oil was also changed)
[11:49:01] <GuShH> that's a bit simpler though
[11:49:04] <tzanger> it was more me acting the 6yo handing "dad" the tools :-)
[11:49:04] <creep> theBear<< i can imagine bats flying into ground and trees if there is ultrasound too ;>> and high power audio probably annoys animals, at least theyy cant hear you, but they can still see and smell
[11:49:09] <GuShH> lol
[11:49:13] <theBear> hehe
[11:49:14] <tzanger> learned a lot, and want to do most of this timing belt change myself
[11:49:32] <GuShH> so far on VW I've only changed disc rotors and pads, plus a few sensors and servos from the AC
[11:49:35] <theBear> i can't say i ever saw any problems, and i spent a lot of time in those kinda conditions back then
[11:49:39] <tzanger> GuShH: this engine is nice to do the belt on, it's not a transverse, you just pull hte bumper, remove rad and it's all right there
[11:49:59] <GuShH> tzanger: don't forget the new pump heh
[11:50:02] <GuShH> got plastic or metal?
[11:50:15] <tzanger> so it's not like doing the clutch where you had to drop the engine down,w riggle things around and do it all on the ground in January :-/
[11:50:22] <tzanger> yeah the pump is included in the kit
[11:50:24] <GuShH> I hope none of it's impellers broke and got inside the system, that's a painful job
[11:50:36] <tzanger> belt, tensioner, idler, pump, o-rings, everything
[11:50:44] <GuShH> yep
[11:50:49] <tzanger> the engine runs well, it just needs to be maintained
[11:51:05] <tzanger> the body is in decent shape. it's not pretty but no rust
[11:51:08] <creep> i think i have a working 4 band crossover, i should try it out with something
[11:51:09] <tzanger> I like the car
[11:51:11] * GuShH would personally run semi-sinthetic more often instead of full sinth once in a while
[11:51:21] <tzanger> vw recommends 5w30 100% synth
[11:51:22] <GuShH> if cost is an issue
[11:51:25] <tzanger> that's all this car ever had
[11:51:26] <GuShH> I know...
[11:51:32] <GuShH> TDIs have their own specific oils also
[11:51:32] <theBear> i miss the smell of real castor oil, with fresh fried chips
[11:51:36] <GuShH> with moly and other shit in it
[11:51:40] <tzanger> yep
[11:51:54] <GuShH> theBear: actually I run my tiny RC engines once in a while
[11:51:58] <GuShH> love the smell.
[11:52:11] <GuShH> don't love how it gets on your hands, clothes, everywhere though.
[11:52:24] <creep> 30-40CM bass speaker 150-300W, 80-150W mid 15-20cm, some nice 60-80W dome, and a piezo tweeter, what do you tihnk?
[11:52:58] <GuShH> got two reed valve .049 cox and a .46 magnum xl, both are glow engines.
[11:53:08] <GuShH> fun little buggers
[11:53:15] <theBear> i miss my molybdenum magic spray grease at old work too
[11:53:30] <theBear> creep, the picture ?
[11:53:47] <theBear> GuShH, what they attached to ?
[11:54:01] <GuShH> the magnum is attached to a 4CH rc trainer
[11:54:15] <GuShH> the other two are in small cox control line planes :p
[11:54:38] <theBear> trainer ? isn't that just a cable between two controls ?
[11:54:48] <GuShH> I need new batteries and a radio fix on the RC one
[11:54:49] <creep> theBear<< i only have 2x30cm 150W speakers now and a few fried piezo ;/ so i have to get some speakers
[11:54:53] <GuShH> no, trainer is the type of airplane.
[11:55:01] <GuShH> top wing, relatively stable.
[11:55:18] <creep> i made mistakes, like using capacitors and inductors for piezo...
[11:55:25] <GuShH> let's say, with desirable specs for learning how to flight.
[11:55:33] <creep> and driving the amplifier to clipping
[11:55:52] <creep> (10A current clip)
[11:55:55] * GuShH acquired a 26cc gas engine to build a bigger RC plane but it turned out to have a scorred cylinder and piston... so now hes back to square 0 and with less money
[11:56:11] <theBear> oh, sounds like a reasonable power distribution, maybe don't need that much on the dome if you cross it high enough, but then again hifi drivers aren't as sensitive as big ones....
[11:56:14] <GuShH> that's right, when you blow your budget it's not even square 1
[11:56:47] <GuShH> they used the oil trick and I wasn't wise enough to remove the muffler to check the cylinder wall.
[11:56:59] <theBear> crossing-over a piezo never hurts, tho the maths are a bit weird with it presenting little to no load at lower freqs, but it does make it last longer
[11:57:04] <OndraSter> GuShH, I would like to get some few HP motor (be it electric preferably or regular) for a go kart
[11:57:14] <GuShH> (oil trick is, you flood the cylinder in oil so the rings will provide a better seal on the damaged walls, temporarily)
[11:57:24] <dirty_d> OndraSter, i have one
[11:57:25] <creep> piezo does not care about your math much, its a few nf capacitor, and uses voltage
[11:57:26] <dirty_d> 6500W
[11:57:27] <GuShH> so when you turn it, it's got good compression... until you start it
[11:57:32] <OndraSter> dirty_d, hehe
[11:57:41] <GuShH> OndraSter: I'm a gas guy :/
[11:57:41] <OndraSter> our university build 20kW electronic formula
[11:57:52] <OndraSter> built*
[11:58:01] <OndraSter> and previously gas formula too
[11:58:04] <GuShH> you could actually use this with a bicycle
[11:58:11] <creep> wondering how much power a piezo needs :) 1-5W ?
[11:58:14] <theBear> i wonder, it'd be interesting to graph the impedance/crossover freq of a piezo wiht a series cap, both with pure sines swept thru the freqs, and with a frequency it responds to superimposed/mixed with a sweep
[11:58:17] <GuShH> you'd just burn the clutch in no time
[11:58:28] <OndraSter> this 20kW BLDC does 93km/h tops
[11:58:38] <dirty_d> OndraSter, http://i.imgur.com/Sl6Zxl.jpg
[11:58:45] <creep> theBear<< inductor in parallel, series capacitor
[11:58:49] <OndraSter> yay nice dirty_d
[11:58:53] <GuShH> at 26cc if the cylinder and piston are in top shape and so are the bearings, plus a good exhaust... 1hp if you are lucky -_-
[11:58:53] <theBear> a piezo looks like a load at the freqs it responds too, just not dc/lower freqs, tho i suppose anything ac it must load a bit, even if you can't hear itt
[11:58:54] <OndraSter> where would one get one of those?
[11:59:05] <dirty_d> OndraSter, i got it from hobbyking.com
[11:59:06] <GuShH> 1.2 with "mods" (porting, possibly bigger carb)
[11:59:11] <theBear> creep, yeah, 12db/oct vs 6, err, 2 pole vs 1 i think
[11:59:13] <creep> theBear<< but oc i will never do this again, i'll go active filtering
[11:59:28] <theBear> active is better if you don't mind the extra cables/wiring and have the amps
[11:59:37] <theBear> MUCH better really, both technically and practically
[11:59:52] <creep> active filter is much more efficient.
[12:00:09] <creep> it only needs active filtering the signal, and extra amplifiers
[12:01:11] <creep> possible an opamp could drive a piezo directly
[12:01:11] <theBear> you know, rane make very nice (mid-high price) active crossover units, and at least all their older service manuals and schematics are freely available, i think they're even on their ftp site
[12:01:24] <theBear> for a reference of a 'real' high quality one
[12:01:25] <OndraSter> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25413__Turnigy_RotoMax_150cc_Size_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html
[12:01:26] <OndraSter> meheheh
[12:01:33] <dirty_d> OndraSter, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14426__Turnigy_CA80_80_Brushless_Outrunner_50_80cc_Eq_.html
[12:01:37] <dirty_d> i think that ones bigger than mine
[12:01:42] <OndraSter> yeah
[12:01:44] <OndraSter> thanks
[12:02:13] <OndraSter> $158 not bad
[12:02:20] <OndraSter> now, where are they shipping from and for how much
[12:02:23] <creep> theBear<< i have a test design to be tested, but a second order MFB would do...
[12:02:34] <dirty_d> OndraSter, hong kong
[12:03:01] <theBear> piezo probly needs more than an opamp has, i used to have 50w motorola little square ones next to an 8" umm, right now in the next room i got 50w piezo bullets next to 8" drivers of a similar power handling, they keep up, they go LOUD, only a 50w amp (got a active crossover and big sub underneath tho, the 8"s are happy to do maybe 120hz and up flat out)
[12:03:05] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_filter_topology
[12:03:25] <dirty_d> OndraSter, youd have to make your own motor controller for that
[12:03:32] <OndraSter> of course
[12:03:42] <theBear> creep, so long as you know the basics and aren't just picking random web-schematics
[12:03:45] <dirty_d> OndraSter, also id suggest using an optical encoder
[12:03:46] <OndraSter> I am just checking out pricing of all the parts etc
[12:04:09] <GuShH> theBear: are cheap 8"s worth it these days ? I blew one, must change both now.
[12:04:22] <GuShH> ok technically it blew out of old age, the coil delaminated and got chewed up.
[12:04:23] <creep> i never build anything from web :) but i find some ideas
[12:04:27] <GuShH> it wasn't dc or my fault!
[12:04:44] <dirty_d> OndraSter, someone already got optical commutation working with these type of motors, http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31961
[12:04:53] <dirty_d> using 3 osram optical switch
[12:05:04] <theBear> i dunno, these were cheapish ones from the local electronics chain maybe ooh, almost 20 years ago, and they've taken a beating, these days i only know big expensive ones
[12:05:10] <creep> optical commutation sucks
[12:05:16] <GuShH> bleh
[12:05:18] <theBear> GuShH, heh, coils don't just delaminate themselves :)
[12:05:22] <dirty_d> creep, why?
[12:05:26] <GuShH> I won't spend money on them... can't spend what you don't have :p
[12:05:31] <creep> because optical sensors get dirty
[12:05:34] <GuShH> theBear: they were dry dry dry.
[12:05:39] <GuShH> the glue just fell apart
[12:05:44] <dirty_d> creep, hall sensors dont work well on these motors
[12:05:48] <GuShH> it was paper on contact adhesive I think, that's what it lookedl ike
[12:05:51] <GuShH> not epoxy or anything
[12:05:51] <creep> why not?
[12:05:56] <dirty_d> creep, no ideea
[12:05:58] <creep> hall sensors are cool.
[12:06:06] <dirty_d> stator flux interference or something
[12:06:07] <GuShH> theBear: you think they got bumped during the moving process and thus got damaged?
[12:06:08] <creep> i have some hall motors too
[12:06:17] <GuShH> they were just boxed with little padding
[12:06:30] <creep> dirty_d<< that sounds stupid
[12:06:34] <dirty_d> yea
[12:06:44] <creep> there is another way btw, go sensorless.
[12:06:47] <GuShH> DC would certainly heat up a coil until it failed... but that's not the case here
[12:07:06] <creep> BEMF commutation
[12:08:01] <theBear> it's true, this is why last year i spent a stupid amount of time dismantling fixing and remantling this maybe 6" shitty akai speaker on my desk here... stupid loose cable blasted it with 50wrms of earth buzz and it died in seconds, also riveted rather than bolted of course <grin> but i got it apart, carefully rethreaded the coils that had slipped off the bottom of the former whiel gently sliding the remaining ones back into place (not much play in wires t
[12:08:02] <theBear> hat were/are part of a coil on a former) ... nailpolished it and somehow munged the frame back into place where i tore out the rivets and realigned it/the magnet, works almost perfect, sounds identical to its healthier twin, just sometimes on very hot days it scrapes a tiny bit :)
[12:08:14] <dirty_d> creep, it doest work well from 0rmp where there is a load
[12:08:19] <creep> sure
[12:08:32] <theBear> GuShH, moving ? i'm having a lot of trouble keeping up and making sense right now..umm, you didn't mention mving
[12:08:33] <dirty_d> its possible to make it better, but tis harder
[12:08:47] <creep> so, if your motor has "paralleled magnets" then it may fail to hall commutate correctly
[12:09:01] <GuShH> theBear: I moved a year ago
[12:09:17] <GuShH> those big speakers got boxed up but with no extra padding or care.
[12:09:32] <theBear> GuShH, hmm, if you don't regularly play at a mid-high level (slight stress for a long time can do that) possibly some input/music you had contained excessive dc content... by the time it's "mixed" with music, a surprising amount of dc can pass through several ac coupled stages
[12:09:33] <GuShH> they barely fit the boxes, tight fit... so they could've been damaged in transit too
[12:09:46] <GuShH> :/
[12:09:48] <creep> what is your opinion about current driving speakers?
[12:10:05] <theBear> they have to be real floppy and old in the suspension, or excessively bumped (like more than a truck) to die in transport i think
[12:10:10] <GuShH> theBear: I forgot to mention how old they were... over 30 years old
[12:10:19] <GuShH> paper cone, nothing fancy
[12:10:28] <creep> very few guys know benefits of this
[12:10:33] <GuShH> at the time they were really good though, must've been why they lasted so long
[12:10:38] <theBear> erm, current driving how, like err, a coil in a magnetic field moves in direct relation to voltage, not current
[12:10:53] <creep> theBear<< you are totally wrong
[12:11:01] <theBear> mmm, likely the suspension was tired, maybe had even been just barely scraping for a long time
[12:11:08] <GuShH> I could rewind it... in theory. cheapies are not meant to be taken apart though
[12:11:14] <creep> it is the current that moves the coil, not voltage
[12:11:38] <GuShH> could've been scraping and thus shorted, and that meant more heat and that ultimately killed it
[12:12:14] <theBear> err, no i'm not, consider moving a cone from resting to 1cm out, you give it voltage, initially it'll be huge current as it overcomes inductance and physical mass of the driver and air resistance, when it gets to the 1cm point (which corresponds to an EXACT drive voltage,) the current will drop and it will look like its dc resistance again
[12:12:32] <theBear> in the meantime, it STAYS at 1cm out, if you half that voltage, it will move to .5cm
[12:12:51] <theBear> and you are trying to accurately reproduce those physical positions, therefore need to drive based on voltage
[12:12:56] <GuShH> tomato, tomäto
[12:13:19] <creep> theBear<< well, the coil has a DC resistance, it will limit DC current, but it has an inductance
[12:13:24] <theBear> how you decide what that voltage should be can differ quite a lot to compensate for things like the physical mass of the speaker, but you are still basically driving in voltage-land
[12:13:51] <creep> so, a current drive will be better to drive the inductance of the speaker
[12:13:53] <theBear> if you try to drive it in current land you will never be able to get it in the right spot
[12:14:36] <theBear> a power stage driving a load always has a voltage and a current component, but you can drive it to generate either a desired output VOLTAGE, or a desired CURRENT, at any moment, and in this case only voltage can possibly work for the desired result
[12:14:53] <creep> current drive will create a large voltage overshoot if overdone, this will result is faster setting time.
[12:15:25] <theBear> but you don't have a reasonable source of information for what that current should be at any moment, and it will change radically with physical influences and air pressure and different speakers etc etc
[12:15:47] <creep> theBear<< im not sure it matters
[12:15:55] <theBear> i am sure it does
[12:16:34] <creep> theBear<< if it starts letting out smoke then it had too much current :)
[12:17:05] <theBear> and without doing a graph, i'm pretty sure even if you assume a purely resistive load, that you non-linearly scale the input waveform if you try to drive a current to match it
[12:17:41] <creep> theBear<< what are you talking about?
[12:17:55] <Tom_itx> sound pressure
[12:18:10] <Tom_itx> gawd. pay attention
[12:18:36] <theBear> actually i just moved into pure electronic area, damn these pills, i thought i had mathematical proof, but now i'm not so sure
[12:19:16] <Tom_itx> yeah good drugs help the visual effects
[12:19:35] <theBear> now my brain is stuck in a loop, and i keep wanting to say v vs r*i, which of course are the same
[12:19:43] <theBear> in resistive land
[12:19:57] <creep> theBear<< try adding sqrt(-1) then
[12:20:09] <theBear> what did i just say about the pills ? i can't add that
[12:21:00] <theBear> but my original point is still fact, if a speaker tries to position itself relative to the voltage level it is currently seeing, and is a weird dynamic impedance/load, it needs to be driven in voltage-land
[12:21:11] <creep> true for DC
[12:22:00] <creep> but if you want to apply AC signal then add the magical sqrt(-1)
[12:22:02] <theBear> why should it be any different at ac, any given moment looks like dc for these purposes
[12:22:11] <OndraSter> <creep> but if you want to apply AC signal then add the magical sqrt(-1)
[12:22:13] <OndraSter> that breaks thw roldd!
[12:22:14] <OndraSter> the world
[12:22:16] <creep> this is because the coil has an inductance
[12:23:06] <theBear> yeah, but you have feedback from the output of your amplifier, assuming sense leads OR reasonably (compared to speaker impedance/resistance) conductey speaker leads, you dump/suck current as needed to get that inductor to the right voltage as quickly as possible
[12:23:50] <theBear> if this idea made sense, someone would have done it by now
[12:24:26] <theBear> people have done all kinds of crazy things in audio output stages in a million products and non-commercial designs over the years, and all of them work on voltage
[12:26:54] <creep> theBear<< here's some literature for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force
[12:27:35] <GuShH> ssh rooty@smoothie ls -l /
[12:27:37] <GuShH> oops shit
[12:27:47] <GuShH> well nevermind
[12:28:02] <theBear> i've read that sober and i still didn't like it, i'm out of my head right now
[12:28:40] <amee2woof> do the cheap ass 5$ "FTDI" USB to RS232 cables actually use an FT232? or do they use other chips and are just sold with "FTDI" in the product name to increase search hits?
[12:28:46] <GuShH> no
[12:28:53] <GuShH> the cheapies are not FTDI
[12:28:58] <amee2woof> :/
[12:29:03] <amee2woof> thats what i thought too
[12:29:04] <Tom_itx> and likely won't work as advertised
[12:29:07] <theBear> but if my scan of the 2nd paragraph is of any use (possible), this isn't about force, you can't know the force needed to move a speaker to a specific desired location, only what that location is, thus current being dictated by input voltage and voltage feedback from the closest possible point to the load
[12:29:08] <GuShH> true
[12:29:34] <creep> so, you have a potential difference between two points, connect them with a piece of wire, then electrons start flowing
[12:29:35] * GuShH should start using "correcthorsebatterystaple" as his main password, then again wonders how many people are already using it
[12:29:50] <amee2woof> ...
[12:29:54] <GuShH> xkcd
[12:30:14] <GuShH> https://xkcd.com/936/
[12:30:29] <creep> theBear<< there is a slight difference in voltage driving and current driving a voice coil, and force is related to CURRENT
[12:31:07] <creep> in voltage driving, inductance will lag the movement, and coil resistance will imit current
[12:31:08] <GuShH> amee2woof: I don't like how expensive FTDIs are by comparison :/ do they run very small batches?
[12:31:33] <Tom_itx> they just like high profit margins
[12:31:39] <GuShH> heh
[12:31:44] <amee2woof> no idea... even the naked chips alone sell for like 4EUR here in singles
[12:31:47] <GuShH> it's not a bad product
[12:31:59] <GuShH> just too expensive for my taste
[12:32:04] <Tom_itx> what else competes with them?
[12:32:08] <amee2woof> http://www.huitsing.nl/irftdi/ i'm trying to find a cheap FT232 dev board to build this thing :3
[12:32:12] <GuShH> not the chinese, that we know.
[12:32:24] <Tom_itx> so they can charge whatever they want
[12:33:05] <creep> as a side effect i can have a power amplifier that can handle a short circuit at full output power ;>
[12:33:08] <theBear> yes, but like i keep saying, you don't know what that force is at any moment before you try to drive the cone to a specific place with a specific voltage at any moment, therefore MUST drive with voltage
[12:33:30] <GuShH> amee2woof: they said "cone"
[12:33:58] <theBear> and your amplifier won't do that, it'll still be trying to output the same current and blow itself up, and any amplifier can have current limiting on the psu side of the output devices, or even back to before that if you wanna get carried away
[12:34:35] <creep> theBear<< i will generate voltage needed to create given current over the speaker, is it more clear this way?
[12:35:25] <theBear> that's what driving in current land does, but how can you possibly know what current you want across the speaker ?
[12:35:33] <creep> :)
[12:36:04] <amee2woof> GuShH: http://ompldr.org/vaDExcw/id-me2.jpg here is a cone for ya :P
[12:36:23] <creep> well the thing is to make a voltage-to-current converter (transconductance amplifier) and drive the speaker with that
[12:36:27] <GuShH> o.O
[12:36:27] <theBear> the input signal is based on what voltage you want across the speaker, and even if you accurately modelled a given driver in a given enclosure/loading you'd still have problems as it heated or with the room more full of people or different atmospheric pressure
[12:36:32] <amee2woof> what.
[12:37:02] <theBear> but a voltage to current converter will try to drive the amount of current that would have been an amount of voltage, and that just won't reproduce anything like the same movement, even in a theoretical world
[12:37:08] <GuShH> lol
[12:37:28] <amee2woof> didn't you like the cone? :>
[12:37:36] <theBear> c'mon, i've laid out all the background, someone else say something
[12:37:44] <theBear> safety dance hat
[12:37:58] <creep> theBear<< well U=I*Rdc+XL voltage will be developed at the speaker's terminals
[12:38:06] <theBear> feel free to replace speaker with hd voice coil or galvo, they're all the same
[12:38:23] <theBear> what is XL
[12:38:31] <creep> inductive reactance
[12:38:32] <GuShH> the ones I use
[12:38:35] * GuShH runs
[12:38:51] <theBear> and how do you have any idea what that is ?
[12:38:52] <creep> XL = 2 * pi * f * L
[12:39:03] <GuShH> amee2woof: you ought to start writing a book called The Art of Coning.
[12:39:11] <GuShH> amee2woof: otoh the actual meaning of coning is different, but hilarious nonetheless.
[12:39:18] <creep> L is the inductance of the coil, f is frequency
[12:39:24] <theBear> but it's MORE dynamic than that, think of heat alone, which is expected during normal mid-high power operation of any given speaker
[12:39:29] * Tom_itx replaces em all wiht an elrad
[12:39:30] <GuShH> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=coning
[12:39:52] <theBear> not to mention the physical cone, suspension that pulls with differing force at different excursions
[12:39:52] <GuShH> can you imagine.
[12:40:15] * amee2woof puts a traffic cone on GuShH's head and sends him off to a furry convention
[12:40:21] <GuShH> oh wait number 3 is what I meant
[12:40:57] <theBear> where voltage driving gets you as close to the desired drive as your feedback is close to the coil, and even skinny speaker wires being pretty much pure resistive, that's gonna be pretty damned accurate
[12:41:17] <theBear> lol@ coning def #1
[12:41:44] <creep> theBear<< you still don't realize it is CURRENT that moves your coil
[12:41:54] <GuShH> theBear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WygNjMSllLQ
[12:42:06] <theBear> it is POWER that moves the coil, but it is VOLTAGE that tells it WHERE to be
[12:42:16] <GuShH> HAHAHA
[12:42:23] <creep> hm...
[12:42:24] <theBear> think about the moment it reverses direction
[12:42:24] <amee2woof> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/718? where the fuck is JP4 on that board??
[12:42:43] <creep> theBear<< if you talk about piezo, then ok ( the voltage moves thing)
[12:42:55] <theBear> there's a LOT of mass on top of the pure coil inductance at that moment
[12:43:19] * RikusW wonders who invented XL = 2 * pi * f * L and XC = 1 / (2 * pi * f * C)
[12:43:23] <theBear> oh, and i wouldn't be surprised if the inductance changes fairly radically as the coil moves in and out of the powerful magnetic/metal gap
[12:43:35] <theBear> kinda like adjusting a variable slug inductor
[12:43:39] <asteve> RikusW: that guy
[12:43:43] <asteve> with his theories
[12:43:45] <theBear> some genius
[12:44:03] <asteve> inductance and capacitance measurements?
[12:44:20] <RikusW> reactance
[12:44:33] <asteve> which one is reactance? they both are?
[12:44:33] <RikusW> or impedance
[12:44:37] <theBear> wow, i don't remember writing that
[12:44:39] <asteve> ya, Xc is impediance?
[12:44:39] <RikusW> yes
[12:44:46] <theBear> i gotta go err, relax
[12:44:59] <amee2woof> there clearly is no full sized jumper on that board... but i can't even find a little solder jumper thing on there
[12:45:02] <RikusW> iirc yes
[12:45:07] <creep> theBear<< yeah, it will change a bit, but an operational transconductance amplifier will servo out the change
[12:45:09] <amee2woof> is the picture for an older version of the board or something?
[12:45:19] <amee2woof> (not having a silkscreen doesn't really help either
[12:45:21] <amee2woof> )
[12:45:35] <theBear> how ? unless it's getting voltage feedback compared to the input, which will turn it back into a voltage amp
[12:45:52] <GuShH> amee2woof: web circuits ....
[12:45:56] <RikusW> asteve: when XC = XL the circuit is resonant
[12:45:59] <theBear> seriously tho, mind failing, as much as i want this to get resolved so my mind can rest, gotta erg
[12:45:59] <GuShH> that's web quality for ya
[12:47:33] <amee2woof> https://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=21234 *facepaw*
[12:59:53] <GuShH> amee2woof: like they didn't have space for a header there
[13:00:17] <amee2woof> GuShH: its just a 2 pin solder jumper
[13:00:28] <GuShH> and? it should've been a pin header with a jumper
[13:00:42] <amee2woof> the purpose is if you open the solder jumper you can use the according pin on the main header to wire in your own IO voltage
[13:00:57] <GuShH> and that's why it should be an actual pin header.
[13:01:05] <amee2woof> the 3 pin jumper like in the schematic doesn't exist. only the IO voltage pin and the 3.3V pin exist
[13:01:19] <GuShH> because they're money hungry whores who love to cut costs?
[13:01:25] <GuShH> and steal designs
[13:01:44] <amee2woof> so you can wire the IO voltage to 3.3V without using the main header pin... basically the schematic is outdated :P
[13:02:06] <GuShH> I've got the solution for you: don't buy from sparkfun
[13:03:57] <amee2woof> they have the cheapest FT232 dev board that i can find
[13:04:15] <GuShH> including shipping?
[13:04:17] <GuShH> that sounds wrong
[13:04:26] <amee2woof> it goes for 12EUR on amazon... the cheapest other ones that seem genuine start at 16EUR and up
[13:04:29] <amee2woof> why?
[13:04:48] <amee2woof> its free shipping over 20EUR so if i take two then shipping is free
[13:05:03] <GuShH> ok
[13:07:26] <amee2woof> you have a butt pirate, right?
[13:07:47] <Steffanx> Whao since when you are back active amee2woof ?!
[13:08:10] <amee2woof> i'm not
[13:08:42] <amee2woof> i just asked a question about UART to USB cables earlier
[13:09:10] <amee2woof> and explained to someone that "getting a head" is not the same as "getting head" >_<
[13:12:26] <OndraSter> watch out
[13:12:35] <OndraSter> if you say "getting a beard" and "growing a beard" is a great difference
[13:12:38] <OndraSter> saying*
[13:55:25] <GuShH> theBear: http://wtflevel.com/ lol
[13:56:32] <theBear> heh, kids say the darnedest things
[13:57:06] <GuShH> DEFCON levels haha
[14:00:15] <theBear> heh, episode err, S2/01 of harvey birdman is awesome as usual, but has a fantastic threat level system including blackwatch plaid and the cover of the seminal album, moving pictures :)
[14:00:50] <amee2woof> ...
[14:00:52] <amee2woof> "Current Status: Expletive-Laced"
[14:00:57] <nabukadnezar43> is there a tool to simulate avrs with leds, lcds etc. on linux?
[14:01:09] <nabukadnezar43> like proteus isis
[14:01:14] <GuShH> yeah RealLife 2.0
[14:02:03] <nabukadnezar43> this one: http://reallife2.com/
[14:02:29] <amee2woof> mmh i wish ltspice had facilities for high level MCU simulation
[14:02:37] <GuShH> nabukadnezar43: no I was joking.
[14:02:46] * GuShH hugs nabukadnezar43
[14:02:48] <nabukadnezar43> GuShH yeah, i get it :)
[14:02:53] <amee2woof> he was suggesting getting a dev board :P
[14:03:03] <GuShH> but he may be afraid of ruining it
[14:03:32] <GuShH> like I ruined your fursuit the other day, oh oops.
[14:03:40] <amee2woof> then i'd just simulate the external circuitry to check whether it is safe to put on a logic pin
[14:04:08] <amee2woof> that was your mom's fursuit
[14:04:08] <nabukadnezar43> i do have breadboards, leds, lcds etc. but simulation makes it easier, just a plus
[14:04:12] <amee2woof> wish i had the money for one
[14:04:20] <GuShH> simulations are often a minus :p
[14:04:33] <GuShH> amee2woof: can't start making your own from scratch little by little?
[14:04:47] <GuShH> the foam and most other parts are dirt cheap
[14:04:55] <GuShH> of course, use 3m foam adhesive, not hot-glue.
[14:04:56] <nabukadnezar43> well depends, sometimes it confuses you but mostly helps
[14:05:30] <GuShH> here's when an airbrush could com in handy
[14:05:32] <GuShH> come.
[14:05:57] <GuShH> before you whine about not having an air compressor, they sell air cans you can use with a regulator
[14:06:00] <amee2woof> GuShH: they are, but a fursuit takes up a fair amount of storage space and maintaining it also takes effort
[14:06:09] <GuShH> lol
[14:06:26] <amee2woof> its true
[14:06:32] <GuShH> I don't know.
[14:06:38] <amee2woof> i do :P
[14:06:42] <GuShH> Pft.
[14:06:51] <GuShH> your friend just told you that so you wouldn't get a fursuit
[14:06:58] * amee2woof idly wags tail
[14:07:01] <GuShH> hes a furblocker
[14:07:06] <amee2woof> :P
[14:07:29] <GuShH> that's not tail wag that's a PC exercise you're doing.
[14:07:40] <GuShH> the scary part is nobody can tell you're doing it.
[14:09:49] <GuShH> Hmm I think this eBay buyer has mental issues... why do people buy stuff and then they don't show up
[14:10:10] <GuShH> there should be an option in all ebay and ebay-like sites to disallow purchases from users with less than x ratings
[14:10:13] <amee2woof> if by PC exercise you mean eating a pizza, then yes.
[14:10:15] <GuShH> (where x you'd choose the amount)
[14:10:36] <GuShH> amee2woof: no, your PC muscle
[14:10:40] <GuShH> puboco-something-something
[14:11:04] * GuShH looks it up
[14:11:12] <GuShH> pubococcygeus!
[14:11:17] <amee2woof> ... i don't see how i#d use that to eat a pizza
[14:11:19] <GuShH> like I would ever remember that...
[14:11:32] <amee2woof> (and yes, i know it is a muscle in your schwang.)
[14:12:07] <amee2woof> i still want to see you eat a pizza with that muscle
[14:12:16] * amee2woof . o O ( and they say furries are weird... )
[14:12:24] <GuShH> o.O
[14:12:52] <GuShH> looking at those illustrations of the PC muscle... I can't help but think how poorly routed those balls are
[14:13:01] <amee2woof> http://ompldr.org/vZ3J1eA
[14:13:43] <GuShH> hmm
[14:15:53] <GuShH> amee2woof: my definition of cute seems different...
[14:16:13] <amee2woof> 6 foot plushies aren't?
[14:16:16] <GuShH> I see a grown ass man selling drugs to the poor animals
[14:16:22] <dunz0r> I know a guy who sees himself as an actual furry. It's not cute when a grown man watches cartoon animal porn :|
[14:16:34] <amee2woof> (it also contains an in-joke because a sentient kangoroo would quality as a furry character too)
[14:17:07] <amee2woof> dunz0r: depends on the porn
[14:17:14] <GuShH> o.O
[14:17:56] * GuShH hopes to get the thinkpad tomorrow
[14:18:10] <dunz0r> amee2woof: No. It's not cute. It's very disturbing :)
[14:18:32] <amee2woof> not really
[14:18:46] <GuShH> dunz0r: so if you are one of those furries does it also mean you are into bestiality?
[14:19:11] <GuShH> maybe hes got some hormones out of wack or something?
[14:19:31] <dunz0r> GuShH: Most likely. He's quite nice though.
[14:19:44] <amee2woof> whacking off to it doesn't mean wanting to do it IRL too
[14:20:08] <GuShH> http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/WikiFur_Furry_Central o.O
[14:20:22] <dunz0r> amee2woof: Well... if he encountered animals with human like traits he would most certainly "do it"
[14:20:30] <amee2woof> and wanting to do a fictional character or a person in a costume doesn't imply you want to bang your dog
[14:20:47] <GuShH> http://en.wikifur.com/w/images/9/99/Xkcd_aversion_fads_panel.png haha
[14:20:57] <amee2woof> furry characters are typically self-aware so they would be able to consent in a legal sense
[14:21:31] <GuShH> permission to open backdoor zipper
[14:21:37] <GuShH> permission granted
[14:21:39] <GuShH> zzzzzzz
[14:21:56] <GuShH> <sweat fest>
[14:22:06] <amee2woof> is that how you do it with your GF too?
[14:22:28] <GuShH> meh
[14:22:36] <amee2woof> "permission to penetrate, mam" "make it so, number one"
[14:22:44] <dunz0r> Pfft, I don't need permission.
[14:22:54] <GuShH> said the rapist
[14:23:06] <dunz0r> "dunz0r stop it! I'm trying to make dinner"
[14:23:22] <GuShH> "don't worry I'm done now"
[14:23:34] <amee2woof> lol
[16:03:40] <amee2woof> GuShH: are you a closet fur? :3
[16:46:19] <GuShH> amee2woof: what makes you think that? :/
[16:46:54] <GuShH> I'm only furry down there.
[16:50:50] <GuShH> "working on fumes" how stupid is that saying? they clearly don't understand how internal combustion engines, carbs or injectors work... let's just say they all work on fumes, but then again if all they had in the tank were fumes, they wouldn't work at all. ffs.
[16:53:15] <amee2woof> GuShH: just wondering, since you seem to have an interesting fixation on my furryness :)
[16:53:36] <GuShH> DanFrederiksen: way to get you banned and flagged everywhere buddy, even in one of Mike's videos... wait, I see what you did. And I see why they flagged you, they're dave lovers.
[16:53:42] <GuShH> Blind fanboys at best.
[16:54:02] * GuShH twitches
[16:54:13] <GuShH> amee2woof: I don't! It's just the ongoing topic.
[16:54:51] <amee2woof> often enough you're the one who keeps the topic going
[16:55:48] <GuShH> until you introduce something new, I'll keep it rolling.
[16:57:23] <amee2woof> lol
[16:57:25] <amee2woof> so i'm not kinky enough for you to get over my furryness?
[16:57:46] <amee2woof> >_>
[17:06:13] * GuShH shrugs
[17:10:37] <amee2woof> ^_^
[17:24:12] <DanFrederiksen> GuShH, flagged?
[17:24:20] <DanFrederiksen> you mean a comment was voted down?
[17:42:59] <amee2woof> when i read "flagged" i think "reported as inappropriate"
[17:43:09] <amee2woof> not just downvoted... voting means shit
[17:47:31] <jadew> when I read "flagged" I think "flaming homosexual"
[17:48:32] <jadew> however, I can see all these things happening to frederiksen, at once
[17:48:38] <DanFrederiksen> well no doubt petty minds have flagged my comments as well. any desperate dishonest act to remove my input
[17:50:35] <DanFrederiksen> although youtube fortunately has a very good policy on freedom of speech. pointing out dave jones makes mistakes is not a bannable offense in the eyes of youtube
[17:51:16] <DanFrederiksen> although it is very stupid that a block from commenting also means you can't subscribe. I don't get that connection
[17:52:02] <jadew> maybe he got you banned from subscribing as a separate thing
[17:52:09] <theBear> being dave jones should be a bannable offence on youtube
[17:52:12] <DanFrederiksen> no, they are connected on youtube
[17:52:26] <DanFrederiksen> I am blocked by many people so I have some experience with it :)
[17:52:57] <jadew> hehe
[17:53:30] <DanFrederiksen> nah Dave Jones is not inherently wrong. he just can't handle being corrected, especially when it comes to his religions. like his deity Fluke
[17:53:42] <OndraSter> haha
[17:53:45] <OndraSter> and his voice
[17:53:46] <OndraSter> HIS VOICE
[17:53:51] <DanFrederiksen> but he puts on a decent show
[17:54:02] <jadew> yeah, I like his videos
[17:54:06] <theBear> he's not always inherantly wrong, but he's always inherantly annoying, and implicitly, and a bunch of other big words :)
[17:54:07] <OndraSter> I like his teardowns
[17:54:09] <DanFrederiksen> hehe, I think his maneurisms are part of his appeal
[17:54:20] <theBear> mannerisms
[17:54:23] <theBear> regarding his manner
[17:54:26] <DanFrederiksen> that's what I said :)
[17:54:55] <jadew> doesn't "maneur" mean "shit"?
[17:55:06] <theBear> heh, i think a maneurism is when part of your tummy or groin breaks and you can't lift any more
[17:55:09] <DanFrederiksen> although he doesn't do the amusing high pitch voice anymore where he would get worked up over trivial things
[17:55:09] <jadew> [01:41.43] <DanFrederiksen> hehe, I think his maneurisms are part of his appeal
[17:55:33] <theBear> maybe a local doctor saw one of his videos and sent him some tranquilizers
[17:55:40] <jadew> I was never bothered by his voice
[17:56:01] <OndraSter> FEW HOURS TO THE LAST FRINGE EPISODES
[17:56:03] <theBear> i won't say i like his voice, but it's not why i dislike him and his show in general
[17:56:04] <OndraSter> two eps airing tonight
[17:56:17] <DanFrederiksen> he has severe irrational bias against things that are low cost and a particular aversion to all things chinese
[17:56:19] <OndraSter> I hate how he repeats everything at least 3 times
[17:56:44] <OndraSter> for stupids :<
[17:56:52] <OndraSter> who didn't hear it the first time
[17:56:56] <DanFrederiksen> well yeah he could be more concise at time
[17:56:56] <DanFrederiksen> s
[17:56:56] <theBear> OndraSter, another reason i don't like information in video form most of the time, you gotta sit and tolerate stuff like that when you just want the info
[17:56:59] <OndraSter> 5 min teardown stretched to 20 mins? NO PROBLEM
[17:57:14] <OndraSter> mike? 20 min teardown stretched to 5 mins :( :D
[17:57:24] <DanFrederiksen> in fairness he has to think on the fly. it's easier to just listen
[17:57:41] <DanFrederiksen> yeah mike is very sharp
[17:57:49] <theBear> i don't get this teardown stuff that's so popular with the kids these days, the other day i stumbled across a maybe 10 minute video of a guy getting a soldering station out of the packing ! how can that possibly be useful or interesting ?
[17:57:56] <OndraSter> plus Mike stands behind the HALO logo in the sky in London :P
[17:57:59] <jadew> I enjoy the way he does his videos, especially since I'm a noob and it's very interresting for me to follow the tought pattern
[17:58:23] <OndraSter> jadew, let me make videos about my thought pattern when laying out PCB or something :)
[17:58:29] <theBear> it's his fulltime job, he has all week bar that short recording to think, and well, if you know the material, thinking as you go isn't exactly a challenge
[17:58:48] <jadew> OndraSter, well, I know how to lay down a PCB too, but I don't know how to debug electronics very well
[17:59:03] <jadew> and the first time I saw how it's done, it was in one of his videos
[17:59:05] <OndraSter> hmm
[17:59:08] <jadew> it was an eye opener
[17:59:23] <OndraSter> I don't think about how I should think
[17:59:25] <OndraSter> I just do itl
[17:59:26] <OndraSter> it*
[17:59:30] <OndraSter> with whatever I have got by hand
[17:59:36] <OndraSter> and by common (smart) logic
[17:59:43] <DanFrederiksen> I have learned quite a bit from Dave though. his SMD pcb video made me choose SMD instead of through hole and that's way cooler
[18:00:00] <OndraSter> SMD vs PTH: I was always one of those "I can do that, hold my beer" guys
[18:00:07] <jadew> OndraSter, it's not easy to do that when you have no clue what to expect from the particular device
[18:00:07] <theBear> https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/g4s9wh/lamp-control-and-sensing_pjl1035_projector/ so, it's ugly and simple and made from the first parts i found in the pile, but anyone think i need an additional gate resistor ? and not pwm or anything silly, just on or off very occasionally
[18:00:09] <OndraSter> I went from PTH home PCBs to full blown 0603 SMD
[18:00:46] <Horologium> http://imgur.com/gallery/OTY0I this is what happens when your country goes overboard with hydro-power.
[18:00:59] <OndraSter> when I see optocoupler and everything, I have to ask: why not SSR?
[18:01:16] <theBear> cos i don't have one
[18:01:23] <OndraSter> I didn't have either
[18:01:25] <OndraSter> so I bought one?
[18:01:37] <OndraSter> /s/?/!/
[18:01:42] <jadew> what's a SSR?
[18:01:48] <theBear> yeah, i'm a crippled pensioner again, and well, i like making useful stuff from scrap
[18:01:50] <OndraSter> solid state relay
[18:01:57] <OndraSter> so do I, but there are limits
[18:02:17] <OndraSter> and I do not like messing with mains stuff, I blew up circuit breakers too many times in the past
[18:02:23] <OndraSter> and it just sucks when everything goes dark
[18:02:27] <theBear> this isn't that silly, the optos came from the board it is 'replacing', and umm, yeah, should work
[18:02:30] <jadew> isn't a magnetic relay safer?
[18:02:34] <theBear> this isn't mains really, it's rectified mains :)
[18:02:41] <OndraSter> oh
[18:03:03] <OndraSter> jadew, magnetic relay is much easier to get working with DC on the HV/HC side
[18:03:04] <theBear> jadew, yes and no, they can arc and wear and stuff, ssr's are pretty damned bulletproof these days
[18:03:07] <OndraSter> SSRs do not always work with DC
[18:03:14] <OndraSter> they have to be specced for DC
[18:03:19] <OndraSter> since they are triac based usually
[18:03:24] <OndraSter> optocoupled triacs
[18:03:29] <OndraSter> I *think*
[18:03:58] <theBear> yeah often, i'd guess the dc capable ones use igbt's back to back, maybe huge fets
[18:06:04] <theBear> well, i don't think i need a gate resistor, when the opto is on you got 1meg series to voltage source, when it's off (as in the schem) you got 100k to gnd, which is just incase the gate holds a charge and stays on.... no flyback 'cos the load has series diodes on its input.. i think it'll work
[18:06:36] <OndraSter> some simulator maybe?
[18:08:54] <theBear> this thing simulates it fine, i'm just a bit confused today
[18:17:42] <GuShH> OndraSter: last fringe episodes? NO NO NO IT CANT END
[18:18:59] <tzanger> GuShH: I said the same thing about breaking bad but then I saw season 5 and thought they should hav eended it at s4
[18:19:12] <GuShH> theBear: unboxing videos are for japanese kids who live in a 1x1 apartment, the videos exist so they can fantasize about having the stuff.
[18:19:36] <GuShH> that and boxeurisim. that's like porn for boxes, I just made that up, embrace it.
[18:19:48] <theBear> it was aoyue ! a dirt cheap iron in a blank generic cardboard box !
[18:20:05] <GuShH> theBear: the third reason is people like to show off whatever shit they buy
[18:20:09] <GuShH> it gets them off.
[18:20:20] <theBear> pfft
[18:20:38] <GuShH> I couldn't give 7 craps about the packaging of something.
[18:20:45] <GuShH> Some people are all about the packaging.
[18:20:49] <GuShH> In fact they get to the product last.
[18:20:50] <theBear> you see my schem ? looks reasonable ?
[18:21:21] <GuShH> then again there is some pretty cool packaging, like the one google used for their cheapie notebooks
[18:21:30] <GuShH> it looked like a pizza box though.
[18:21:37] <GuShH> is/are
[18:21:41] <GuShH> theBear: what schem?
[18:22:14] <theBear> err https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/g4s9wh/lamp-control-and-sensing_pjl1035_projector/ that one
[18:22:58] <theBear> i wonder.... (maths)
[18:23:30] <GuShH> the people next door keep a cheesy chinese light on all day and night... it fades to blue and has some crappy patterns, I don't get it...
[18:23:33] <GuShH> what's the point.
[18:23:49] <theBear> what kinda power can yer average plastic trimpot handle ? .16watts across the whole track ?
[18:24:17] <GuShH> 1/16W to be safe
[18:24:23] <theBear> i've kinda grown fond of little flashing lights in my old age, i mean, i'm not surrounded by leds or anything, but i don't mind seeing things like that
[18:24:30] <theBear> hmmm.... wonder if i got a 100k
[18:24:37] <OndraSter> they are usually .1W
[18:24:39] <OndraSter> I think
[18:25:06] <GuShH> theBear: it gets old pretty fast though, blink blink blink fade blink blink blink, where's the party??
[18:25:12] <GuShH> not in my pants...
[18:25:40] <theBear> maybe, like i say i don't have them at home :)
[18:25:57] <GuShH> maybe you should
[18:26:09] <theBear> so i can agree about how quickly they get old ? :)
[18:26:14] <GuShH> naturally
[18:26:23] <GuShH> or maybe we get old
[18:26:25] <theBear> heh
[18:26:29] <GuShH> and the lamps get ever so younger
[18:26:51] <tzanger> what are you trying to do with that circuit?
[18:26:52] <GuShH> until they go in glory.
[18:27:45] <GuShH> tzanger: looks nearly like rectified mains and what seems to be a detonator.
[18:27:54] <theBear> tzanger, it'll be switching power to a small switcher-module/pcb in my projector
[18:27:55] <tzanger> heh
[18:28:21] <theBear> so that if the stupid projector supply dies next time i'm asleep, the fancy new led doesn't melt everything with no fans
[18:28:24] <theBear> (again)
[18:28:36] <OndraSter> uh
[18:28:38] <theBear> and it's mainly designed around what i could find
[18:28:47] <GuShH> what if.... you use a separate supply for the fans
[18:28:59] * GuShH waves arms
[18:29:09] <theBear> nah, they're already speed controlled and got a 'turbo timer' for power down etc etc
[18:29:15] <GuShH> aw
[18:29:19] <theBear> and i'd need to make/find another supply :)
[18:29:51] <theBear> and this is the 'right' way to do it, AND the one thing none of those monkies on instructables and lumenwhatsit have done
[18:30:05] <theBear> it makes the led behave just like the original hid/electronic ballast
[18:30:41] <theBear> and i'm thinking maybe a 100k trimpot across the lamp will be an easy/compact way to drive the return 'lamp good' opto
[18:30:50] <theBear> i suppose tho, more maths
[18:31:22] <theBear> 1.33333k alone would do fine
[18:32:06] <theBear> i even drew a little line on the scrap of no-copper-veroboard i found to indicate hot/isolated side, just like a real psu <grin>\
[18:32:41] <theBear> by far the most 'finished' project i've done/will do for quite some time
[18:34:25] <theBear> before i got lazy and updated the schem and had a coffee and smoke, i just came in here to doublecheck the opto pinouts... i spose i should do up the last couple of joints and test it low voltage on the bench supply
[18:34:46] <theBear> should work anywhere above about 6v (including testing the zener
[18:35:28] <theBear> the zener (one of the few i have here) is even low enough that the opto doesn't die if i got it backwards :)
[18:36:22] <theBear> and being that the only huge value resistor i could find was 1/8th watt, if anything is gonna cook, it'll be that, which will lock it off rather than on :)
[18:38:51] <tzanger> I surprised there isn't a thermal cutout or current shutdown
[18:40:44] <theBear> well the old ballast board had lots of protection, but it was for expensive hid lamps (that are only just over half as efficient as your average modern led)... and there are thermals, but it seems the original main psu wasn't ONLY dying/losing standby because of the dodgy lamp arcing and being silly, and well, like lastnight, it's likely i'll be asleep/not there again one day and everything but the lamp will die again
[18:43:25] <theBear> yeah, i'm gonna stick a few volts in and see how it looks
[18:45:49] <tzanger> I'd put both a thermal runaway and current runaway circuit in there, completely independent from the rest of it
[18:46:07] <tzanger> just have a relay that opens (fail safe) if it's too hot or draws too much
[18:47:15] <tzanger> a pair of comparators, two diodes, a transistor, a thermistor and a shunt along with maybe a half dozen resistors is all you'd need to protect it
[18:47:37] <tzanger> it wouldn't be fancy, but I bet it's better than nothing
[18:57:29] <GuShH> tzanger: but perhaps he doesn't have all those parts handy right now
[18:58:16] <GuShH> stupid scsi scanner, why won't you work!
[18:58:35] <GuShH> and why am I being so lazy with that typewriter hack... I should take it apart and reverse it already
[19:04:04] <OndraSter> eh
[19:04:06] <OndraSter> scsi scanner...
[19:04:16] <OndraSter> ... I just had a call
[19:04:20] <OndraSter> from the 80s
[19:04:24] <OndraSter> they want their scanner back
[19:04:42] <jadew> the scsi port too
[19:05:07] <OndraSter> I had full blown SCSI in Pentium III based server, too
[19:05:09] <OndraSter> dual processor even
[19:05:15] <OndraSter> IBM eServer X330 I think!
[19:05:20] <OndraSter> with 2.5GB of ECC SDRAM :P
[19:05:21] <jadew> I had full blown scsi in 486 :P
[19:05:36] <OndraSter> I had also dualprocessor P II board with SCSI
[19:05:44] <OndraSter> and I have got somewhere PCI card for SCSI
[19:05:46] <jadew> 100Mb hdd, 16Mb RAM, still works
[19:05:47] <OndraSter> but no 64bit drivers :(
[19:05:54] <OndraSter> I have got 32MB RAM in 486!
[19:06:08] <OndraSter> I am extremists
[19:06:14] <OndraSter> 32MB in 486, 24GB in PC
[19:06:25] <OndraSter> .. soon! once my motherboard comes out of RMA replacement
[19:06:27] <Tom_itx> need some scsi cards???
[19:06:30] <OndraSter> haha
[19:06:34] <OndraSter> how many drawers do you have?
[19:06:36] <Tom_itx> i got my pile of em too
[19:06:43] <OndraSter> wait, I have got one or two more
[19:06:46] <OndraSter> one with external slot
[19:06:48] <OndraSter> and one with internal
[19:06:50] <OndraSter> both ISA
[19:06:52] <Tom_itx> yup
[19:06:56] <OndraSter> the external one comes with ZIP drive
[19:07:00] <jadew> oh, deffintely useful
[19:07:01] <OndraSter> full 100 megabytes!
[19:07:10] <jadew> you'll need a motherboard with pci
[19:07:13] <OndraSter> imagine that you plug that to your AVR!
[19:07:14] <jadew> a pci to isa adapter
[19:07:17] <Tom_itx> tape drive
[19:07:23] <jadew> and then plug the isa to scsi adapter in the pci to isa one
[19:07:27] <OndraSter> and your AVR will have 100MB OF ZIP DRIVE
[19:07:40] <OndraSter> instead of .. sniff.... 32GB microSDHC
[19:10:03] <GuShH> OndraSter: you'd be surprised, they still make scsi interfaces for old lab equipment
[19:10:36] <OndraSter> eh
[19:10:41] <OndraSter> didn't those old ones use GPIB?
[19:10:45] <OndraSter> I mean, it is VERY old
[19:10:57] <Tom_itx> omg!! scsi LA!
[19:11:05] <Tom_itx> the shizzle!
[19:11:17] <OndraSter> :D
[19:11:28] <OndraSter> even my LA from the 80s has got GPIB
[19:12:40] <GuShH> there are also parallel interfaces still in use...
[19:12:59] <Tom_itx> just how far can technology go before it becomes cumbersome
[19:13:19] <Tom_itx> do you get more done with a mouse than you did with just a keyboard?
[19:13:29] <Tom_itx> hour per hour
[19:13:43] <GuShH> how is that related to my old pro flatbed? :p
[19:13:56] <GuShH> I refuse to buy a new scanner when I only use it twice a year.
[19:13:58] <Tom_itx> are you more productive with an 'ap for that' or is it just dazzle
[19:14:05] <GuShH> plus the cheapy usb ones look like shit
[19:14:30] <Tom_itx> i had a couple hp flatbeds
[19:14:36] <GuShH> try to scan full size at maximum resolution and they take weeks
[19:15:02] <GuShH> ...and a modern professional flatbed costs a lot.
[19:15:20] <GuShH> I actually just take a picture whenever I can
[19:16:21] <GuShH> "if it ain't broken don't try to fix it"
[19:18:46] <GuShH> old tech can be fascinating, have you ever played with vidicons?
[19:19:37] <Tom_itx> not me
[19:21:54] * GuShH has been fantasizing with a vidicon webcam
[19:22:18] <GuShH> just imagine, it would be like talking to someone in the friggin past!
[19:22:29] <GuShH> also in some instances "old" is all you can get, try buying a new thermal camera...
[19:23:07] <GuShH> or a modern nightvision unit
[19:23:09] <GuShH> (last gen)
[19:23:21] <OndraSter> eh
[19:23:25] <OndraSter> about flatbeds
[19:23:29] <OndraSter> I simply bought multifunction printer
[19:23:31] <OndraSter> all in one
[19:23:32] <OndraSter> from Brother
[19:23:35] <GuShH> you can't really get the last gen to begin with you dirty civilian!
[19:23:42] <GuShH> OndraSter: too big
[19:23:55] <OndraSter> well it prints A3...
[19:23:56] <GuShH> brother is samsung by the way
[19:24:00] <OndraSter> eh
[19:24:07] <GuShH> do you want me to prove it?
[19:24:19] <OndraSter> I am waiting for some cool animation with the logo
[19:26:35] <Tom_itx> i've been thru several 'all in one' printers
[19:27:00] <Tom_itx> i hate the cartridge scam
[19:27:07] <OndraSter> it is
[19:27:15] <GuShH> what about epson
[19:27:16] <OndraSter> that is why I chose something with cheap and available cartridges
[19:27:42] <Tom_itx> odpm
[19:27:46] <GuShH> they introduced a printer with their own version of one of those kits
[19:27:48] <Tom_itx> woops
[19:27:56] <GuShH> with endless supply of ink
[19:27:58] <Tom_itx> i don't print as much as i used to eitehr
[19:28:13] <OndraSter> I use bazilion years old laserjet for bw printing
[19:28:17] <Tom_itx> i've refilled inkjet and laser jet both
[19:28:18] <OndraSter> and inkjet just for colour
[19:28:29] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, i had a series II
[19:28:37] <OndraSter> I have refilled inkjets too - but with the new ones I am worrying about quality of the ink
[19:28:40] <OndraSter> the cheap ink clogs the heads
[19:29:02] <OndraSter> and in this printer the heads are in the printer itself = cheaper cartridges
[19:29:07] <OndraSter> originals
[19:29:21] <OndraSter> if you want supercheap printing per page, check HP 8600 Pro
[19:29:26] <OndraSter> inkjet
[19:29:33] <OndraSter> I got the brother because I don't use it that often
[19:29:33] <Tom_itx> i got a samsung lj
[19:29:37] <GuShH> epson l100 and such
[19:29:41] <Tom_itx> $60 for the printer
[19:29:43] <OndraSter> for bw I am using HP Laserjet 2300dn
[19:29:49] <Tom_itx> when it quits it quits
[19:29:52] <GuShH> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5NkVvMKDKrM/ThQ49IfzcII/AAAAAAAABVM/gFQDrC77qF0/s1600/epson-L100.jpg
[19:29:54] <OndraSter> the brother was $100 - $200 I think
[19:29:58] <OndraSter> the HP was free :P
[19:30:09] <Tom_itx> i got it and a spare cartridge
[19:30:12] <OndraSter> yay custom CISS
[19:30:31] <Horologium> bah....sharp 2300...was in a fire...case is kinda melted on one side and it smells like smoke...but it works great.
[19:30:35] <OndraSter> I had strict requirements about features
[19:30:38] <GuShH> lol
[19:30:50] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, what?
[19:30:51] <OndraSter> I wanted it to be able to scan into network shared folder, not just with using some of their crappy apps
[19:30:51] <GuShH> I have a color laser but I rarely print in color
[19:30:53] <Tom_itx> it prints?
[19:30:56] <Horologium> it's a 23ppm color laser multifunction copier.
[19:31:03] <OndraSter> ethernet of course, too
[19:31:08] <GuShH> too bad mine isn't wifi
[19:31:09] <OndraSter> duplexing
[19:31:15] <GuShH> and a wifi "print server" costs as much as the printer
[19:31:16] <GuShH> ha.
[19:31:29] <OndraSter> wifi in the corner where is the printer sucks so much, that 1MB scanned jpg is uploading to the server nearly a minute :(
[19:31:34] <OndraSter> I have yet to lay down the cable there
[19:31:40] <GuShH> actually it costs more.
[19:31:43] <OndraSter> so it is on wifi right now
[19:32:23] <OndraSter> I like it - it connected to wifi on the 1st try, it scans to network storage even using domain login + password to save the files there just fine
[19:32:24] <GuShH> I like the L100, I wonder how much it costs though
[19:32:56] <GuShH> well their top of the line is L800
[19:33:20] <OndraSter> I have got epson dot matrix printer
[19:33:22] <OndraSter> for LPT
[19:33:28] <OndraSter> and OKI LED 300 DPI for LPT :P
[19:33:32] <GuShH> 6 inks...
[19:33:57] <GuShH> OndraSter: I want to convert an old brother typewriter into a printer, just because.
[19:34:05] <OndraSter> lol
[19:34:09] <OndraSter> good luck mate
[19:34:22] <GuShH> Well it's electronic.
[19:34:29] <OndraSter> does it have SCSI?
[19:34:35] <GuShH> no
[19:34:42] <OndraSter> ..
[19:34:48] <GuShH> usb 3.0
[19:34:48] <OndraSter> too bad
[19:34:51] <GuShH> you hipster.
[19:34:51] <OndraSter> I see
[19:34:56] * GuShH slaps OndraSter
[19:35:09] <GuShH> if you can find me a typewriter with usb 3.0 I will eat my shorts.
[19:35:15] <OndraSter> also, can it scan or just print?
[19:35:16] <OndraSter> :P
[19:35:46] <OndraSter> I used to use oooold LPT scanner
[19:35:49] <OndraSter> before I got the AiO
[19:35:56] <OndraSter> but it wouldn't run under Win2000
[19:35:58] <OndraSter> err
[19:35:59] <OndraSter> under WXP
[19:36:02] <OndraSter> on IBM T21
[19:36:17] <OndraSter> so I had to install and run it on old 266MHz AMD K6 machine with 32MB RAM and Win2k
[19:36:24] <GuShH> o.O
[19:36:28] <GuShH> and you complain about my scanner?
[19:36:32] <OndraSter> :P
[19:36:40] <GuShH> at least mine will run on xp.
[19:36:54] <OndraSter> I suppose this one would too, for some reason it wouldn't work on the T21
[19:37:02] <OndraSter> and the old K6 wouldn't handle XP, would it
[19:37:29] <GuShH> it could, with a few hacks and a gallon of coffee to help you remain awake while it booted
[19:37:34] <Horologium> http://www.uncommongoods.com/product/usb-typewriter usb typewriter.
[19:37:40] <Horologium> only, it's an input device, not output.
[19:37:41] <GuShH> 64MB was the minimum ram allowable
[19:37:45] <OndraSter> :P
[19:37:46] <OndraSter> I know
[19:37:46] <GuShH> but you could simply edit that
[19:37:49] <OndraSter> yep
[19:37:55] <OndraSter> I needed to scan something ASAP so I grabbed the first thing I had lying around
[19:38:03] <OndraSter> well, the only thing I had lying around, even
[19:38:03] <GuShH> Horologium: see, mine could also work as a keyboard.... I just need to figure it out.
[19:38:15] <GuShH> wait what the fuck is that thing
[19:38:26] <Horologium> hehe
[19:38:31] <Horologium> it's an ipad keyboard
[19:38:35] <GuShH> .....
[19:38:37] <Horologium> made from an old manual typewriter.
[19:38:37] <GuShH> for 800 bucks.
[19:38:39] <OndraSter> iPad ?! :D
[19:38:40] <OndraSter> lmao
[19:38:42] <OndraSter> HIPSTERS
[19:38:45] <GuShH> jesus
[19:39:07] <Horologium> now, if it only worked as a printer too that would be awesome and worth 800 bucks, almost.
[19:39:32] <GuShH> for me it wouldnt'
[19:39:39] <Horologium> http://www.usbtypewriter.com/
[19:39:42] <GuShH> and if I saw you using that I would hurt you so bad.
[19:39:50] <OndraSter> I would just laugh
[19:40:07] <OndraSter> anyway
[19:40:09] <OndraSter> gn from me
[19:40:31] <Horologium> same here...off to bed.
[19:43:29] <SuperMiguel> if the 4 bit adder is working, any idea why this would not subtract: http://i.imgur.com/FxGzo8n.jpg ?
[20:02:13] <bluwhale> Is there a way to tell time on an ATmega MCU?
[20:02:26] <bluwhale> Say I want to turn an LED on every day at 12 PM.
[20:03:14] <bluwhale> I could program a delay equivalent to 24 hrs, but I doubt that
[20:03:25] <bluwhale> is the most elegant way.
[20:04:59] <Tom_itx> some have rtc options
[20:05:26] <Tom_itx> and an option for a 32.768khz crystal for the timer
[20:11:05] <bluwhale> Tom_itx: Hm I see. But how do you set the time? Sorry if the question is a bit vague.
[20:12:43] <GuShH> bluwhale: user input, stored with super cap or battery
[20:13:02] <GuShH> if your mcu has no rtc just get an external rtc IC
[20:13:26] <bluwhale> GuShH: Ok, thanks. Do you recommend any?
[20:13:40] <GuShH> not really, they all work :)
[20:13:59] <Tom_itx> you'd have to write code for the rtc part
[20:14:12] <GuShH> and that would depend on it's interface heh
[20:14:15] <Tom_itx> i made one with a dallas chip
[20:14:27] <GuShH> but come on, I'm sure someone released their "lib" for specific RTCs
[20:14:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/RTC3.jpg
[20:14:51] <GuShH> the last one I used was from TI and the code was for the msp430..
[20:15:29] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/RTC1st.jpg
[20:15:34] <Tom_itx> that was the first prototype
[20:16:32] <tzanger> most rtcs are ridiculously easy to
[20:16:33] <tzanger> use
[20:16:53] <tzanger> im actually pulling the 32kHz crystal of my shop
[20:16:55] <tzanger> controller
[20:17:11] <tzanger> fuck. I keep hitting enter in this damn touchscreen
[20:17:20] <GuShH> the datasheet will tell you all you need to know :p
[20:17:44] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/avr/Dallas%20RTC%20Code/
[20:17:59] <Tom_itx> not mine but i used the twi.c from it
[20:18:04] <tzanger> a 16MHz xtal gets me just shy of 1ms interrupts, and if I skip every 4th interrupt I get 1ms exactly
[20:18:37] <tzanger> close enough. the time base will have a tiny bit of jitter but averages out the time is accurate
[20:18:40] <bluwhale> Thanks for the info guys.
[21:54:24] <SethHope> Hello! is anyone on who is good with graphics?
[21:54:56] <SethHope> I am looking for help with 3D wireframe graphics in particular.
[22:05:17] <Tom_itx> probably not the best channel to ask in
[22:05:48] <SethHope> ah. Well, It was for use in my AVR project, so I figured I should start here. :p any suggestions where to ask?
[22:06:37] <Tom_itx> try robotics or such
[22:06:48] <SethHope> ok.
[22:06:50] <SethHope> thanks!
[22:06:57] <Tom_itx> rue has done some stuff in povray