#avr | Logs for 2013-01-17

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[02:02:56] <RifRaf> would anyone in here recommend webbotlibs for avr?
[04:57:37] <OndraSter_> has anybody from here used those small 128x64 OLEDs?
[04:57:52] <inflex> I've got a few here, those lovely tiny 20mm ones ?
[04:57:57] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:58:04] <OndraSter_> 0.96"
[04:58:13] <OndraSter_> the power supply looks really funky
[05:07:07] <OndraSter_> you need to supply logic (1.8 - 3.3V) and then either high voltage (9V - 12V) for the display OR 3.3- 4.2V for the itnernal charge pump
[05:07:10] <OndraSter_> BUT it has to be >Vcc
[05:07:14] <OndraSter_> err
[05:07:18] <OndraSter_> >Vdd
[05:08:01] <yunta> lol
[05:09:06] <OndraSter_> sample circuit: Vdd = 1.65V ~ 3.3V,<Vbat; Vbat=3.3V~4.2V, Iref=12.5uA
[05:09:48] <yunta> I wonder if you can just supply 3.2999 for logic and 3.3 for pump :)
[05:10:00] <OndraSter_> I could simply provide my own Vcc if I were to put there SMPS
[05:10:42] * yunta already burned 3 smps chips while trying to make them work :(
[05:10:58] <soul-d> but with some lm1117 (adj or non ) and few res youd be done ? how much does it draw ?
[05:11:18] <OndraSter_> soul-d, if my powersupply is 3.3V?
[05:13:11] <OndraSter_> although
[05:13:13] <soul-d> oh you only got 3,3 to it ? well then probably only low voltage like 1,8 < 2,2 for logic :S
[05:13:15] <OndraSter_> it might be 3.7V from battery
[05:14:05] <soul-d> yeah probably cutting it to close for those regulators
[05:29:58] <Timelord83> avrdude: ser_open(): can't set dtr for "\\.\COM6" anyidea what causes this?
[06:17:52] <RikusW> Timelord83: what hw is on com6 ?
[06:18:01] <RikusW> usb->serial ?
[06:31:06] <Timelord83> yes
[06:31:09] <Timelord83> and yes
[06:31:38] <Timelord83> i flashed the CDC bootloader so i can write firmware via Arduino IDE.. but i get that error
[06:37:10] <Horologium> Timelord83, looks like that firmware uploader needs to access the dtr line
[06:37:22] <Horologium> and that usb-serial adapter doesn't support dtr line.
[06:37:51] <Horologium> arduino bootloader relies on dtr line to put the board into programming mode.
[06:40:29] <Timelord83> its not an external adaptor
[06:40:33] <Timelord83> its wired into the board
[06:40:59] <Timelord83> its an ATMEL90USB1286-AU
[06:43:57] <Horologium> again, it is not supporting access to the DTR line.
[06:44:01] <Horologium> that is what your error says.
[06:44:22] <Horologium> that uploader program is trying to access the dtr line to put the chip into programming mode.
[06:44:33] <Horologium> so, it won't work with that bootloader.
[06:45:13] <OndraSter_> you are not giving it the proper CDC
[06:45:58] <Timelord83> that i do not know
[06:45:59] <Horologium> your CDC bootloader and your uploader program on the pc are not compatible.
[06:46:12] <Timelord83> i am following someone else instructions that got it to work
[06:47:38] <Horologium> then ask them.
[06:47:51] <Malinuss> you guys think that the ATTINY2313 will be fine for holding a camera (using two servos) in a gimbal horizontally, using SPI with this gyroscopic unit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-6DOF-MPU-6050-3-Axis-Gyroscope-And-Acce-lerometer-Sensor-Module-For-Arduino-/140906396209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ceacfa31
[06:48:14] <Malinuss> just want some feedback before ordering
[06:48:33] <Horologium> Malinuss, no reason why that chip couldn't handle that.
[06:48:41] <Horologium> coding might be a bit tight
[06:48:42] <Timelord83> ya hes not an arduino guy he says but using all his instructions other people are getting it to work
[06:48:45] <Horologium> but it's more than capable.
[06:49:04] <Horologium> Timelord83, then ask those who are getting it to work.
[06:49:10] <Malinuss> Horologium, what do you mean by that? Like in - hard? Can't really see what the problem could be
[06:49:34] <Horologium> Malinuss, like, in, not a lot of program space.
[06:50:22] <Malinuss> Horologium it will only need to send 1 byte to the gyrscope, and read 2... and then just use that data to move 2 servos... you think it could be a space issue?
[06:50:52] <Horologium> depends on how you program it.
[06:51:05] <Horologium> yes, it is very doable, and not difficult.
[06:52:00] <Horologium> ok, off to work.
[07:21:26] <creep> h
[07:21:40] <creep> yey Horologium what1s up dude?
[07:32:57] <nabukadnezar43> hello guys, what programmer do i select in avrdude for this usb programmer: http://www.altaskitap.com/Atmel-AVR-PROGUSB-USB-AVR-Programlayici,PR-44.html
[07:33:27] <nabukadnezar43> i've tried dozens except avrftdi (seems it wasn't compiled with libftdi support) but none seems to work
[07:34:43] <nabukadnezar43> only jtag2 seems triggers the led on the programmer with "avrdude -p atmega32 -t -c jtag2"
[07:51:32] <manuel> hiya
[07:51:56] <manuel> yep
[08:58:24] <Tom_itx> OndraSter, http://www.coilcraft.com/pfl.cfm
[08:58:44] <OndraSter> holy crap
[09:04:41] <Tom_itx> http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Plessey_semiconductors_demonstrate_contactless_gesture_recognition_technology_for_laptops_tablets_more-article-fajb_ces2_jan2013-html.aspx
[09:06:21] <soul-d> looks anoying left clicj half a second ? should be max 350ms
[09:07:53] <Tom_itx> i want a mouse that will follow my eyeball and click when i blink
[09:08:19] <soul-d> not to effecient either
[09:08:36] <soul-d> just a decent touch screen and voice recognition should be much more effecient
[10:08:28] <creep> h
[10:08:29] <creep> so, everybody is a stalker ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking
[10:24:05] <dirty_d> yea
[10:24:18] <dirty_d> is this channel always this dead now?
[10:24:40] <DagoRed> I wouldn't say that
[10:24:46] <jadew> I'm not a stalker, I just know where certian persons are at any given time and what they're doing
[10:25:20] <dirty_d> doesn no one use the xmegas still?
[10:26:09] <specing> dirty_d: OndraSter sleeps with them
[10:26:38] <dirty_d> im pondering
[10:26:48] <jadew> I'm using one as a place holder in the smd box
[10:26:58] <dirty_d> per PWM cycle current limited avr motor controller
[10:27:14] <OndraSter> esz esz
[10:27:17] <OndraSter> wat wat
[10:27:30] <OndraSter> what with xmega and PWM cycle?
[10:27:35] <dirty_d> use the analog comparator interrupt to turn off the PWM output for the remaining period time?
[10:27:38] <dirty_d> yea
[10:28:01] <dirty_d> analog comparator propagation delay is 30ns
[10:28:11] <dirty_d> interrupt might take 10 cycles
[10:28:15] <dirty_d> right?
[10:28:24] <OndraSter> just the startup?
[10:28:29] <dirty_d> no total
[10:28:32] <OndraSter> huh
[10:28:35] <OndraSter> check disassembly
[10:28:38] <dirty_d> all it has to do is set the PWM pin outlut to low
[10:28:39] <OndraSter> it has to push/pop many regs
[10:28:42] <dirty_d> im guessing
[10:29:03] <dirty_d> i dont think you can do this with the event system right?
[10:29:15] <OndraSter> no idea
[10:29:19] <OndraSter> I thought about that too
[10:29:30] <dirty_d> i didnt see an analog comparator event
[10:30:04] <dirty_d> the PWM module would need to be able to be configured to go low on that event too, which i dont think it can be set to do
[10:31:01] <dirty_d> OndraSter, the interrupt doesnt have to push/pop if youre careful right
[10:31:15] <OndraSter> I'd say do it in asm
[10:31:17] <OndraSter> and mark it as naked
[10:31:20] <dirty_d> yea
[10:31:27] <dirty_d> all that needs to happen is set the PWM pin low
[10:31:37] <dirty_d> then next cycle it will go high again
[10:31:54] <dirty_d> seems like a prett failsafe current limiting strategy
[10:31:59] <dirty_d> no PID needed
[10:32:06] <OndraSter> :)
[10:32:09] <dirty_d> use the DAC as the compare voltage
[10:32:35] <dirty_d> that way you cna have current based control too
[10:32:43] <dirty_d> or voltage
[10:33:02] <OndraSter> xmega ftw, doesn't it?
[10:33:15] <dirty_d> yes of course
[10:33:34] <dirty_d> it doesnt seem like anyone uses them though
[10:33:45] <dirty_d> i have no reason to use the megaavrs again
[10:33:47] <OndraSter> that's why I am creating xmega based arduino
[10:33:53] <dirty_d> there isnt already?
[10:33:59] <OndraSter> there was one
[10:34:05] <OndraSter> but it was using A4 chip only
[10:34:09] <OndraSter> and FT232
[10:34:14] <OndraSter> mines are a4u/a3u/a1u
[10:34:19] <dirty_d> the megavrs are pretty obsolete compared to xmega, im not sure why theyre used so much more
[10:34:24] <dirty_d> maybe because theyre DIP and 5V?
[10:34:26] <OndraSter> they are simple
[10:34:33] <OndraSter> (xmega is too, but tell that to everybody)
[10:34:33] <OndraSter> yes
[10:34:35] <dirty_d> xmega is just as simple though
[10:34:37] <OndraSter> yes
[10:34:42] <OndraSter> but it needs more expensive programmer
[10:34:42] <dirty_d> if anything its easier to program
[10:34:50] <dirty_d> its only $30
[10:34:53] <OndraSter> :)
[10:34:56] <OndraSter> still more than $4
[10:34:56] <dirty_d> tom-itx sells them
[10:35:11] <dirty_d> one time cost though
[10:35:17] <OndraSter> yes
[10:35:22] <OndraSter> plus no DIP versions, as you said
[10:35:27] <OndraSter> which I am providing too
[10:35:29] <dirty_d> thats so 80s
[10:35:32] <OndraSter> (for now only a3u boards)
[10:35:33] <OndraSter> ;)
[10:35:36] <OndraSter> but people use it!
[10:35:51] <BusError_> well quite frankly, the regular avr do the job, and if you want more, the xmega is the last thing I'd pick :-)
[10:35:52] <dirty_d> tqfp is easy to solder
[10:36:02] <dirty_d> BusError_, how come?
[10:36:03] <OndraSter> solder to where?
[10:36:12] <dirty_d> OndraSter, anything
[10:36:19] <OndraSter> well you need your board ready
[10:36:21] <dirty_d> like a DIP converter board for a breadboard
[10:36:23] <OndraSter> which means making the board etc
[10:36:24] <OndraSter> yes
[10:36:28] <OndraSter> that is what my board does pretty much
[10:36:31] <OndraSter> + LDO and USB etc
[10:36:34] <BusError_> stm32 etc are just a notch bigger, and are MASSIVELY more powerful than xmegas
[10:36:50] <OndraSter> also massively more hard to programm, BusError_
[10:36:52] <OndraSter> plus, no AS6
[10:37:05] <BusError_> so here I use AVRs for small projects, and stm32's for the rest
[10:37:07] <dirty_d> BusError_, the xmega has some pretty impressive peripherals
[10:37:13] <OndraSter> yep
[10:37:16] <OndraSter> and xmega is cheaper than mega
[10:37:19] <dirty_d> cpu power isnt so much a concern
[10:37:54] <BusError_> have you checked the range btweent he stm32f1 and stm43f4, all pin compatible ? for prices often a lot less than atmegas?
[10:38:01] <dirty_d> i havent seen any arm mcus with as many PWM channels etc
[10:38:05] <dirty_d> or that are as configerable
[10:38:19] <BusError_> FPU ?
[10:38:22] <BusError_> DMA ?
[10:38:26] <OndraSter> we have DMA
[10:38:32] <BusError_> ADC ? DAC ? etc etc ? :-)
[10:38:33] <OndraSter> we have fast ADCs
[10:38:36] <OndraSter> also DACs
[10:38:40] <OndraSter> event system
[10:38:45] <OndraSter> bazilion of timers
[10:38:45] <BusError_> just read the front apge of the stm32f4 datasheet for a laugh :-)
[10:39:04] <dirty_d> the kind of things i make dont require cpu speed and processing power, its more about interfacing with the analog world etc and responding to lots of events as fast as possible
[10:39:06] <OndraSter> all the 44 pin xmegas have the same pinout, same for 64/100
[10:39:15] <BusError_> MMU ? 192KB of sram ?
[10:39:27] <creep> http://www.tubecad.com/2008/12/07/power%20boosters%202.png
[10:39:28] <creep> :)
[10:39:31] <creep> lold?
[10:39:32] <OndraSter> 16MB of SDRAM
[10:39:32] <OndraSter> if you want
[10:39:53] <creep> a real donothing circuit
[10:39:56] <BusError_> I mean onboard. of course the stm32 has an external bus
[10:40:16] <OndraSter> onboard goes only upto 32kB
[10:40:22] <OndraSter> for 384kB flash devices
[10:40:30] <OndraSter> (only D series available.. or was it C series)
[10:40:45] <creep> and this is probably make it smoke competition http://www.tubecad.com/2009/01/08/parallel%20amp%20and%20v-toi%20convertor.png
[10:40:52] <BusError_> I'm not dissing AVRs, I love the parts really, and use them all the time.
[10:41:16] <OndraSter> lol creep "power booster"
[10:41:36] <dirty_d> BusError_, besides cpu speed and ram/flash etc, thse probably have less handy peripherals than the xmega though right?
[10:41:58] <dirty_d> the xmega is like a swiss army knife chainsaw
[10:42:04] <BusError_> whats handy peripheral it's missing?
[10:42:49] <OndraSter> BusError_, stm32f4 starts at 9€
[10:42:51] <OndraSter> on mouser
[10:42:52] <dirty_d> it has like 16 16-bit PWM channels with a bunch of different modes, pulse width/frequency capture modes on the timers and stuff
[10:43:07] <dirty_d> jsut tons of usefull stuff that doesnt involve any cpu processing at all
[10:43:22] <OndraSter> if you have 9€ MCU, you can be using AVR32 instead
[10:43:35] <dirty_d> the one i use is $3
[10:43:47] <OndraSter> stm32f4?
[10:43:49] <OndraSter> link on mouser?
[10:43:52] <BusError_> lol avr32 is kinda painted ina corner somewhere, with about 2 users
[10:43:59] <dirty_d> ATxmega32A4U
[10:44:22] <OndraSter> ah I missed the nicks
[10:44:25] <OndraSter> I am using 128a4u
[10:44:28] <OndraSter> not that much more expensive
[10:44:32] <OndraSter> but four times the RAM :)
[10:44:33] <BusError_> the stm32 also have a full range. to compare the cpu with the xmega, you'd have to use a stm32f1 or 3
[10:44:39] <dirty_d> id like to try the arm mcus though
[10:45:10] <OndraSter> huh
[10:45:19] <OndraSter> stm32f1 are much, much lower than xmega
[10:45:21] <OndraSter> for around the same price
[10:45:21] <BusError_> I feel a bit bad,t eh xmegas might have picked a huge market, had they been released on time.
[10:46:01] <dirty_d> BusError_, do you have a specific model number you've used that i can look at?
[10:46:58] <BusError_> dirty_d, one stop, get a stm32f4-discovery or a stm32f3-discovery or any of these, they are REALLY cheap (<10 GBP for the F4). the toolchain is also gcc, you don't need a 'programmer' either
[10:47:00] <dirty_d> OndraSter, lower how?
[10:47:29] <dirty_d> BusError_, if i did want to program the chips on my own board, what kind programmer would i need?
[10:47:45] <OndraSter> http://www.st.com/internet/mcu/product/216810.jsp
[10:47:48] <OndraSter> 3.79€ on mouser
[10:48:17] <specing> <3 cortex-M4F
[10:48:27] <BusError_> dirty_d, FTDI board works, or add 2 resistors and a micr-usb slot and use the built in device usb bootloader, or the UART ROm bootloader
[10:48:57] <OndraSter> I have got here Launchpad
[10:48:58] <OndraSter> Stellaris
[10:48:59] <OndraSter> 2 boards
[10:49:01] <OndraSter> I have not opened them yet
[10:49:02] <BusError_> you don't need any 'specific' programmers really; if you want to debug you can use one of the discovery board as a programmer/debugger, too
[10:50:11] <BusError_> did rthat recently, to replace an atmega644: https://plus.google.com/111387094029238541867/posts/EoocMTBXjzG
[10:51:01] <OndraSter> so YOU are the one
[10:51:05] <OndraSter> the one who uses google+! :D
[10:51:11] <OndraSter> the only one*
[10:51:47] <BusError_> surprisignly large number of people I know use it :-)
[10:55:10] <dirty_d> BusError_, is it much harder to program these than avr?
[10:58:11] <dirty_d> how many clock cycles is a typical FPU divide on these?
[11:00:19] <BusError_> dirty_d, it's actualy easier to program than AVRs
[11:00:48] <BusError_> dirty_d, FPU divide is I think 6 cycles.. imagine that at 168mhz ;-)
[11:00:56] <dirty_d> thats pretty damn good
[11:01:32] <BusError_> yeah that part is a little monster
[11:02:11] <dirty_d> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0439b/BEHJADED.html
[11:02:20] <dirty_d> it says 14, but thats still good
[11:05:16] <tzanger> yeah I am looking at the stm32, unfortunately they like their idiotic st-link windows-only crap
[11:05:32] <tzanger> you can work around it but unless I really want the speed I think I'd just stick with xmega
[11:05:38] <BusError_> tzanger, not so, theres a perfectly working linux one :-)
[11:05:51] <BusError_> st-link<->gdb straigth in linux. check gtihub
[11:06:01] <tzanger> BusError_: I know, reverse engineered (which I think is great) but again, I'm not all that happy about supporting a company who makes it hard for us
[11:06:02] <dirty_d> BusError_, the F4 is the same as F3 but with a higher speed clock?
[11:06:19] <tzanger> it is a nice chip though
[11:06:28] <BusError_> dirty_d, I think f3 has no FPU... ? can't remember
[11:06:56] <BusError_> tzanger, well a company that makes fantastic devboards for 10 quid is not exactly anti hobbyist tho..
[11:07:20] <dirty_d> BusError_, it looks liek they do, it says FPU in the description on mouser
[11:07:32] <OndraSter> ti!
[11:07:34] <tzanger> sure, but man, windows... <shudders>
[11:07:37] <tzanger> TI is a weird company
[11:07:48] <tzanger> they have great parts and are really linux friendly in some areas
[11:08:10] <tzanger> then you get into DSPs which is ALL code composer bullshit and their STM32
[11:08:14] <tzanger> MSP430 isn't bad
[11:08:14] <BusError_> dirty_d, so I thinkt he difference is that it can replace the older STM32F1s in place.. there is 2 little difference hardwarewise (2 caps)
[11:09:11] <BusError_> TI sucks, for me. got a project with a fancy dm8168 on it and their linxu support is a piece of shit
[11:09:30] <BusError_> but, even more off topic :-)
[11:11:01] <BusError_> so my next little board has a atmega48p on it, I got stocks of these whent hey were dead cheap :-)
[11:32:52] <OndraSter> hornang, your interwebz is broken
[11:32:56] <ike> hi there
[11:33:11] <OndraSter> hi
[11:33:26] <ike> I have spare attiny26L can I overclock it and use it make AVR-USBasp
[11:33:34] <ike> instead of atmega8?
[11:33:55] <OndraSter> I am not sure you will fit V-USB+ISP into 2kB
[11:35:01] <jadew> it fits
[11:35:09] <jadew> well, not isp
[11:35:19] <jadew> but he can build the usbtiny one
[11:37:44] <ike> http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/ this one right?
[11:37:53] <jadew> yeah
[11:38:24] <ike> thanks :)
[11:43:44] <ike> so hex for attiny2313 will run on attiny26 without modification if I only use GPIO, right?
[11:50:57] <dirty_d> OndraSter, i might try that stm32f3 board
[11:51:18] <dirty_d> the f3 is the "analog/FPU" one
[11:51:25] <dirty_d> f4 is high-performance/fpu
[11:51:32] <OndraSter> :)
[11:51:43] <dirty_d> i want to do too much stuff and dont have enough time
[11:51:55] <dirty_d> i need to get my cnc mill all perfected still, lol
[11:53:11] <swinchen> Ok... I give up... is it possible to inspect the stack frame and determine the return address from within gdb (xmega128a1)
[11:54:04] <swinchen> I see what I _think_ is the stashed PC, but no matter how I wiggle the bits around I can't make it work out correctly.
[12:13:11] <swinchen> exit
[12:15:24] <GuShH> swinchen: reddit?
[12:16:46] <swinchen> GuShH: Sorry... no, I had two tmux windows opened to the same thing and it caused me to have a minor brain glitch :P
[12:37:29] <GuShH> swinchen: oh I meant exit as in suicide, like the reddit guy... too soon?
[13:10:32] <dekroning> hi
[13:10:46] <OndraSter> hi
[13:10:47] <dekroning> when people are talking over a "bootloader" is that also a special region in the MCU? or purely a name "thing"
[13:11:06] <OndraSter> special reigon in the flash, yes
[13:11:07] <OndraSter> region*
[13:13:51] <dekroning> OndraSter: ok, and is this the region Arduino uses to store it's bootloader?
[13:14:00] <dekroning> or am I talking nonsense now :)
[13:14:56] <OndraSter> yes
[13:15:02] <OndraSter> that is where arduino stores the bootloader
[13:15:05] <OndraSter> it is on the end of the flash
[13:15:10] <OndraSter> and on megas you can select the sizes
[13:15:17] <OndraSter> ranging from 256 or 512 bytes upto 2kB on those small megas
[13:15:26] <OndraSter> when the MCU starts, it checks for BOOTRST fuse
[13:15:32] <OndraSter> if it is programmed, it jumps to the bootloader first
[13:15:39] <OndraSter> if not, it jumps to the regular offset 0000
[13:15:47] <OndraSter> and executes from that address
[13:18:54] <OndraSter> hmm
[13:18:55] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2IVGR
[13:18:58] <OndraSter> well this won't fit :D
[13:23:59] <dirty_d> i hate making pcbs
[13:24:23] <specing> OndraSter: WHAT, XMEGAS ARE NOT 5V TOLERANT?
[13:26:32] <Tom_itx> find smaller parts
[13:26:40] <Tom_itx> duh
[13:27:11] <Tom_itx> put the resistors on the bottom
[13:27:50] <Tom_itx> stop trying to be an ardweenie
[13:28:35] <specing> ardweeniemeineemoe
[13:29:21] <OndraSter> who is ardweenie?
[13:29:24] <OndraSter> specing, who needs 5V?
[13:29:38] <specing> everybody, lol
[13:29:52] <specing> even the stellarises are 5V tolerant
[13:29:53] <OndraSter> lolwut
[13:29:57] <OndraSter> yes
[13:29:58] <OndraSter> they are
[13:30:04] <OndraSter> what are you trying to imply?
[13:30:58] <OndraSter> (I know what you are trying to imply)
[13:32:09] <OndraSter> dirty_d, I love making PCBs
[13:35:55] <Tom_itx> ondraweenie
[13:36:22] <OndraSter> that's not nice
[13:36:30] <soul-d> woulnd mind it if there was a workable pcb software :P
[13:36:41] <Tom_itx> you could shrink your smps with those new inductors
[13:37:34] <OndraSter> :D
[13:37:39] <OndraSter> but how much do they cost?
[13:37:50] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[13:37:58] <Tom_itx> i think i ordered theirs for my smps once
[13:38:06] <Tom_itx> not the tiny ones
[13:38:43] <OndraSter> coilcraft is fairly known name
[13:38:44] <OndraSter> so why not
[13:39:17] <Tom_itx> i didn't say i couldn't rather i didn't at the time
[13:39:41] <Tom_itx> i wonder how they handle the heat
[13:40:02] <OndraSter> http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Taiyo-Yuden/CBC3225T3R3MR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsg%252by3WlYCkU5iuzh4MJmq09z5tNjShRw0%3d
[13:40:04] <OndraSter> I am using these
[13:40:26] <OndraSter> heh, watching the "customers who bough .. also bought"
[13:40:50] <OndraSter> the SM5110BEL, that LD1117V50, MBRS340T3G are all mine lol
[13:40:55] <soul-d> lol
[13:41:03] <soul-d> http://www.kicad-pcb.org/display/KICAD/KiCad+EDA+Software+Suite
[13:41:12] <soul-d> how arrogant the part of kicad cost
[13:41:53] <OndraSter> eh
[13:42:05] <OndraSter> how would one code such value calculator
[13:42:07] <soul-d> if they had time to make / calculate that they could have taken the time to fix the actual program
[13:42:18] <RikusW> soul-d: I use Altium DXP2004...
[13:42:26] <OndraSter> I am using Eagl
[13:42:26] <OndraSter> e
[13:42:37] <soul-d> probably taken a value per correct line of code
[13:42:46] <soul-d> and multiply kicad lines of code
[13:42:48] <OndraSter> :D
[13:42:54] <OndraSter> rather high value of the line
[13:42:56] <creep> PCB layout considerations :) 1 V/100 GΩ = 10 pA
[13:43:39] <RikusW> DXP is rather crap considering the price (which for me was "free")
[13:43:41] <soul-d> got all the fancy programs but those aren't free or usable for home user
[13:43:58] * RikusW considers writing his own pcb sw app
[13:44:09] <OndraSter> RikusW, I had that idea too
[13:44:12] <OndraSter> than I laughed at myself
[13:44:18] <soul-d> same here :P
[13:44:39] <OndraSter> plus I would be making it in C#
[13:44:44] <Tom_itx> it would take you months to come up with all the packages and footprints in current software
[13:44:51] <OndraSter> so 50% of all the people would deny the use of it just because of that
[13:44:59] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, OR! make a converter
[13:45:02] <OndraSter> or just use eagle's format :P
[13:45:06] <OndraSter> since it is XML
[13:45:37] <RikusW> for dxp i have to add footprints anyways :-/
[13:45:45] <soul-d> it takes same amount of time to get said footprints in a cad package let aside find them in a logical place
[13:45:50] <RikusW> well for any nonstandard part...
[13:46:20] <Tom_itx> eagle is a dream compared to when i started using it
[13:46:27] <soul-d> kicad is nice for free but it's thosse few nasty parts that make stuff so redundant asking yourself "no no why ? "
[13:46:28] <Tom_itx> back around ver 2
[13:46:46] <Tom_itx> there were hardly any parts back then
[13:46:55] <Tom_itx> suck it up and stop yer whinin
[13:46:56] <soul-d> and i bought 1 inch think rope for those people :P
[13:47:56] <soul-d> can't work with eagle either it works for like 10 min before it takes blood from under nails
[13:48:37] <OndraSter> lol
[13:48:41] <tzanger> haha
[13:48:42] <tzanger> I love eagle
[13:49:01] <RikusW> once DXP project files gets messed up, well....
[13:49:10] <tzanger> dxp?
[13:49:12] <RikusW> almost easier to start over....
[13:49:20] <RikusW> Altium DXP2004
[13:49:24] <tzanger> ah
[13:49:27] <RikusW> aka nexar protel
[13:49:35] <tzanger> yeah I'm not a fan of altium/cadence, although I really like some of their display features
[13:57:38] <soul-d> and even if i liked it i can't work with stuff if id never be able to pay for it
[13:58:38] <RikusW> I don't particularly like it.... more like a love/hate relationship :-P
[13:58:47] <RikusW> I don't have anything better
[13:58:48] <tzanger> soul-d: eagle has free and student editions that get you smaller, up to 2-layer boards for free/cheap
[13:58:57] <soul-d> no
[13:59:17] <RikusW> I did my U2S on it
[13:59:20] <soul-d> i don't want a soft that complains at start when it places components and start whining
[13:59:32] <RikusW> and now I have to read all the tutorials again just to get going :(
[13:59:44] <RikusW> its very non intuitive :S
[13:59:54] <tzanger> soul-d: that's fine
[13:59:54] <RikusW> and labor intensive... :S
[14:00:06] <tzanger> My eagle 6.x license was like $500
[14:00:34] <tzanger> that's pretty cheap compared to the others
[14:00:36] <soul-d> no it's a reasonable fail if soft places stuff and then complains about own restrictions etc move the component
[14:00:49] <tzanger> yes, that is a bug, I admit
[14:01:25] <RikusW> I'd consider making it very very easy to add components, then lack of a lib won't be too much of a pain...
[14:02:24] <soul-d> kicad is sorta nice in that respect now trying to build from source maybe that one is more updated then one from distribution
[14:56:21] <tzanger> good afternoon, WormFood
[14:57:36] <OndraSter> tzanger, more like good night for him
[15:01:23] <specing> Anyone who pays $500 for a piece of *software* is f***** stupid.
[15:01:53] <creep> ever heard of the xilinx ise suite ?:)
[15:03:07] <specing> Yes
[15:04:19] <manuel> specing: why?
[15:04:25] <manuel> software can definitely be worth 500$
[15:04:39] <manuel> hell if it saves me 5 hours of work it is worth 500$
[15:05:17] <creep> ok, well i think xilinx ise software should be "free", you buy the fpgas anyway
[15:05:51] <specing> creep: I didn't go into FPGAs precisely because the software was non-opensource
[15:05:58] <prpplague> or even $50000
[15:06:34] <manuel> doesn't ISE have a free version?
[15:07:04] <creep> mi'm not sure who would want that limited spywared version
[15:08:02] <manuel> i was quite happy with it during my studies
[15:08:31] <creep> and they collect intellectual property then, its stealing
[15:09:28] <creep> that is not "free"
[15:09:47] <creep> more like some demo
[15:09:50] <jacekowski> it depends on what kind of free are you talking about
[15:10:19] <jacekowski> although i believe in free tools just because it makes it easier to get into something
[15:10:21] <creep> free means it costs you nothing
[15:11:03] <jacekowski> at work, we use £20k software ( for 5 users)
[15:11:21] <manuel> i mean people make a living off of that software, and it doesn't have a consumer market, of course it's going to be expensive
[15:11:22] <jacekowski> but we buy over £1m of hardware
[15:11:24] <jacekowski> a year
[15:11:55] <jacekowski> manuel: thing is, that kind of software is ussualy used to program quite expensive hardware
[15:12:01] <manuel> it is!
[15:12:18] <manuel> but a lot of profesisonal software, outside of the hardware domain, is quite expensive too
[15:12:28] <jacekowski> if they were to make software free for that kind of things
[15:12:53] <jacekowski> i could as a hobbyist get into FPGAs for 0 for software and £20-200 for the chip
[15:12:54] <manuel> they want to cover the freelancer market too
[15:13:11] <manuel> well can't you? i mean ise web is good enough for a whole deal of projects
[15:13:44] <jacekowski> well, not exactly
[15:13:52] <jacekowski> you can only program the low end devices
[15:14:58] <jacekowski> with FPGAs there is no real alternatives though so it's kinda different than in uC market
[15:15:08] <jacekowski> where you have TI that charges a lot for their tools
[15:15:13] <jacekowski> and then you have free tools from atmel
[15:15:50] <jacekowski> and that way as a hobbyist i get to know their devices and that's what i'll use at work if possible
[15:16:24] <jacekowski> and it makes it easier to do some work at home
[15:16:27] <manuel> you don't get a compiler from atmel though
[15:16:35] <jacekowski> manuel: you get avr-gcc
[15:16:55] <jacekowski> and atmel has done a lot of work to get avr-gcc to where it is
[15:16:59] <manuel> yeah that's not atmel though, and you can't compare avr-gcc to an FPGA suite
[15:18:09] <manuel> i mean if you consider using the big fpgas at work, there probably is a budget for ise too, no?
[15:18:34] <jacekowski> manuel: it is atmel
[15:18:47] <jacekowski> manuel: most of work on avr-gcc was done by atmel
[15:19:03] <manuel> yeah, a small part of avr-gcc is what i mean
[15:19:08] <manuel> a compiler backend
[15:19:24] <jacekowski> they have done everything to provide good free tools to everyone
[15:19:46] <jacekowski> so i can use AVRs at home and at work and everywhere
[15:21:06] <jacekowski> i could have gone MSP430 way or something like that
[15:21:14] <jacekowski> but there are no free tools
[15:21:35] <manuel> isn't there a gcc for that too?
[15:21:38] <jacekowski> so now, even at work, where there is a budget for tools
[15:21:54] <jacekowski> msp430 gcc is a recent thing
[15:22:06] <jacekowski> but going back to situation at work
[15:22:09] <jacekowski> when it comes to uC selection
[15:22:14] <tzanger> OndraSter: true
[15:22:29] <tzanger> < specing> Anyone who pays $500 for a piece of *software* is f***** stupid.
[15:22:32] <tzanger> *riiiiiight*
[15:22:45] <jacekowski> i could get money to spend on tools, but there is time to spend to learn those tools and the hardware
[15:22:46] <tzanger> creep: I prefer Quartus but yeah
[15:22:48] * OndraSter alt-tabs back to Opera, ctrl-l, thepiratebay.se
[15:23:00] <manuel> jacekowski: which probably makes the cost of even ise pale in comparison
[15:23:02] <OndraSter> Quartus supports even the big chips in the free version, doesn't it? (Except the laaargest ones)
[15:23:23] <jacekowski> so i'm just saying, f
[15:23:28] <tzanger> ISE/Quartus *are* free if you are ok being limited with the number of cores used, etc
[15:23:35] <manuel> assuming you have to spend like 2 months to get acquainted with it, that's probably as much as the software (I don't know the ise costs, I guess around 10k?)
[15:23:48] <jacekowski> companies hurt themselves by not providing good free tools
[15:24:08] <jacekowski> and for hobbyist use, if i ever wanted to do some high end FPGA stuff as just a one off
[15:24:26] <jacekowski> 1k for the chip + pcb + some other stuff
[15:24:36] <jacekowski> and then i would have to add a lot more for the software
[15:25:05] <creep> yeah xilinx hurts its profit by not providing free tools, though the volume customers probably don't care about a $10k software
[15:25:31] <jacekowski> and well, income from the software is minimal compared to income from the hardware
[15:25:31] <manuel> whatever, just get a ntlm crack
[15:25:51] <manuel> jacekowski: how do you know that?
[15:25:59] <jacekowski> as i've said, we do industrial automation stuff at work, and software costs £20k
[15:26:12] <jacekowski> but we spend around £1m on the hardware from them
[15:26:35] <manuel> that's not income however
[15:26:35] <jacekowski> every year
[15:26:49] <jacekowski> well, if you take a look at what goes into that kind of PLC
[15:26:57] <jacekowski> there is not that much costs in making one of those
[15:27:19] <jacekowski> most of those use off the shelf parts
[15:28:41] <jacekowski> "industrial" PC ( just a PC but with case that is designed to be mounted on panel door + touchscreen) £3.5k
[15:29:53] <jacekowski> and similiar thing from chinese manufacturer costs less than £500
[15:30:24] <jacekowski> costs in EU or USA are not £3k higher
[15:30:36] <manuel> wait you are talking about xilinx?
[15:30:40] <jacekowski> no
[15:30:47] <jacekowski> i'm talking about other stuff
[15:31:02] <jacekowski> but with similiar levels of pricing
[15:32:37] <manuel> yeah i don't know why i argue actually, i have no clue about their pricing strategy. i can just admit that i was actually quite happy with ise, and that i don't mind shelling out a few k for software
[15:33:47] <jacekowski> well, few k is nothing for a business that spends a lot more on the hardware
[15:33:54] <jacekowski> but it's prohibitive for a hobbyist
[15:33:59] <iSaleK> I'm thinking about ordering Arduino Uno rev3 from dx.com, is there a better version that is better but in same price range? :)
[15:34:19] <specing> iSaleK: get a stellaris launchpad
[15:34:29] <jacekowski> and i'm sure that sofware is not their main income source
[15:34:33] <manuel> i mean as a person
[15:35:00] <manuel> i guess they still make enough of their software to fund a lot of software development
[15:50:07] <dunz0r> This isn't working as expected, the motors doesn't move when I use set_motors. http://sprunge.us/UMcW
[15:50:13] <dunz0r> What could I be doing wrong?
[15:51:06] <Tom_itx> using ardweenie code
[15:51:59] <dunz0r> Tom_itx: It's not ardweenie code.
[15:52:03] <dunz0r> Regular C.
[15:52:10] <dunz0r> the set_output etc are macros.
[15:52:14] <Tom_itx> i didn't click
[15:52:20] <Tom_itx> just seemed like ardweenie code
[15:52:23] <specing> ardeweeniemeiniemoe
[15:52:28] <Tom_itx> can't help right now, already late for a meeting
[15:52:37] <dunz0r> Tom_itx: Why does it seem like ardweenie-code?:O
[15:52:51] <specing> dunz0r: Have you ever looked at disassembly?
[15:52:59] <darknite> dunz0r: probably because you namedropped a readable function name ;p
[15:53:08] <dunz0r> specing: Not for this program.
[15:53:37] <Tom_itx> is it pwm or just setting pins high and low?
[15:53:38] <dunz0r> I suspect I'm doing something wrong though, since it works if I use arduino-code-thingies.
[15:53:42] <dunz0r> Tom_itx: PWM.
[15:53:53] <specing> dunz0r: I certainly recommend doing so .. because ints
[15:53:57] <Tom_itx> what about the enables on the hbridge?
[15:54:13] <Tom_itx> bbl
[15:54:27] <dunz0r> Tom_itx: They're controlled with OCR0A and OCR0B.
[15:55:28] <Tom_itx> i did similar on a 68332
[15:55:38] <Tom_itx> not on an avr but it's not that difficult
[15:55:58] <dunz0r> I know it's not very difficult, I just need to figure out what I'm missing :)
[15:56:05] <GuShH> http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-445971899-sandwichera-electrica-philips-hd238620-paninis-tostado-700w-_JM
[15:56:10] <GuShH> oops sorry wrong window
[15:56:39] <diametric> dunz0r: I don't see you enabling interrupts in there at all.
[15:56:54] <diametric> or wait I'm reading this wrong.
[15:57:02] <dunz0r> diametric: They're enabled in main.c. Not sure I need it though.
[15:57:14] <dunz0r> Hum... I just realised something... do I need to set up the PWM-channels as outputs?
[15:57:28] <diametric> yes
[15:57:33] <dunz0r> Oh... duh :D
[15:57:58] <tzanger> < manuel> assuming you have to spend like 2 months to get acquainted with it, that's probably as much as the software (I don't know the ise costs, I guess around 10k?)
[15:58:06] <tzanger> quartus is about $5k and half that per year "maintenance"
[15:58:15] <tzanger> which I agree is stupid, their tech support is spotty at best
[15:58:30] <tzanger> < jacekowski> companies hurt themselves by not providing good free tools
[15:58:50] <tzanger> not true; Quartus and ISE both come in free versions; not an expert with ISE but Quartus' free version is only speed-locked
[15:59:07] <tzanger> one core, full version can build faster but honestly unless you're buidling BIG designs free version works great
[15:59:36] <soul-d> i actualy spotted it saying 4 core's using 4 cores
[15:59:41] <creep> if you are not concerned about giving out intellectual property
[15:59:45] <tzanger> I just read that the AVR built-in 2.56V reference is only specced at like 8%
[15:59:48] <tzanger> that's silly
[16:00:07] <tzanger> soul-d: not for synthesis/PAR, those are 1 core only on free version
[16:00:25] <tzanger> mind you I was working on a PCIe soft core design, that was a 20 minute build even with 12 cores active and 36G of RAM
[16:00:27] <creep> how would you like if atmel said i give you free compiler and tools if you send every source code before you can program it ?
[16:00:28] <soul-d> donno just the ctrl+l tgubgy
[16:00:33] <soul-d> thing
[16:00:42] <tzanger> creep: what's that got to do with anything?
[16:00:52] <creep> xilinx webstuff does this
[16:01:22] <tzanger> ah. Quartus web edition doesn't do anything like that, not sure why they call it "web edition"
[16:01:29] <tzanger> but lots of companies do that
[16:01:38] <tzanger> look at TI webbench and any of the online simulators
[16:01:43] <creep> because it sends your project to xilinx
[16:01:45] <creep> lol
[16:01:57] <tzanger> creep: that's Xilinx ISE; Quartus doesn't do that even in its web edition
[16:02:02] <OndraSter> zomg xilinx
[16:02:06] <OndraSter> I am glad I chose altera :P
[16:02:12] <tzanger> I'd hate to use a tool that *required* web access to function
[16:02:25] <creep> OndraSter<< altera does not have that cool fpgas :(
[16:02:32] <tzanger> hahaha
[16:02:32] <tzanger> right
[16:02:37] <creep> but do altera provide free dev tools?
[16:03:03] <tzanger> yes, they have free tools that are limited to 1 CPU core when running
[16:03:27] <soul-d> tzanger, synth same as compilation these day's ?
[16:03:43] <tzanger> I just finished a moderately big Altera design (PCIe, had to use the soft core since their PCIe hard core wasn't avail in .mil temp grade when we specc'd it)
[16:03:56] <tzanger> soul-d: could you rephrase that in english?
[16:04:23] <soul-d> like in quartus it say's start compilation or ctrl+l
[16:04:37] <soul-d> or is synth a sub part of that
[16:04:50] <OndraSter> also why altera > xilinx: I actually know how to PRONOUNCE Altera
[16:04:55] <tzanger> oh yeah
[16:05:13] <dunz0r> So setting PD5 as an output useable for PWM is no different than doing it for "regular output" right?
[16:05:14] <tzanger> synthesis is pretty much the same as preprocessing. PAR is a combination of optimization and linking I guess
[16:05:16] <dunz0r> Like DDRD |= (1 << 5)
[16:05:19] <dunz0r> ?
[16:05:20] <soul-d> Parallel compilation is enabled and will use 4 of the 4 processors detected
[16:05:24] <OndraSter> yes dunz0r
[16:05:29] <soul-d> thats what i get ib projects
[16:05:29] <tzanger> soul-d: with Quartus web edition
[16:05:30] <tzanger> ?
[16:05:33] <soul-d> yep
[16:05:39] <dunz0r> OndraSter: Great. Thank you :)
[16:05:42] <tzanger> hm, maybe they changed something. which version of Quartus
[16:06:44] <soul-d> 12.1 build 177 xxx
[16:06:56] <soul-d> 64bit linux
[16:07:02] <dunz0r> Hmm... I should remove all those macros, they don't add readability etc.
[16:07:12] <soul-d> but you where right version before it was locked to 1
[16:07:48] <tzanger> soul-d: interesting. Wonder what they took away
[16:08:10] <tzanger> What one version giveth, the next version taketh away
[16:08:10] <soul-d> probably my thought thinking they should be slapped for that
[16:08:59] <soul-d> thats like solar panel manufacturs ask more money if you get more sun
[16:09:09] <OndraSter> wait, what?
[16:09:12] <creep> OndraSter<< where can you get altera fpga?
[16:09:15] <tzanger> <= 10.1 had BSDL files for PCIe simulation. 11.0-11.1SP2 removed them for some inexplicable reason. 12.0+ has them back
[16:09:17] <soul-d> to make a silly comparison
[16:09:19] <OndraSter> creep, nowhere :(
[16:09:25] <OndraSter> they are not on mouser
[16:09:41] <tzanger> creep: digikey, arrow/future or direct from ALtera?
[16:09:47] <creep> only altera sells it?
[16:09:54] <OndraSter> creep, digikey too
[16:10:01] <OndraSter> but not mouser
[16:10:51] <creep> actually i'd like to create my own, it would be a few billion $ i think
[16:11:10] <tzanger> fpga work is definitely a learning experience
[16:11:35] <tzanger> the funny part is that it's permanently warped my C programming now, as far as I can tell
[16:11:40] <soul-d> step op from flashing leds took me probably a year or so
[16:11:47] <tzanger> I've been programming in C for damn near 20 years, and one year of intense VHDL work has changed it
[16:12:24] <creep> loll
[16:12:31] <soul-d> lol tzanger when i went back to avr for a bit i was like huh what why is it taking so long totaly forgot code took clock cycles :(
[16:12:42] <OndraSter> lol
[16:12:47] <tzanger> I mean it's not *bad* but it's definitely flavoured/tinted my C to be more VHDL-like
[16:12:49] <creep> altera has devices codenamed similar to some of my electronics EPM***
[16:13:14] <tzanger> ##vhdl here is a *very* good channel. Just be patient, like here
[16:13:20] <creep> hmm
[16:13:27] <creep> i like the schematic gate drawing more.
[16:13:31] <tzanger> ew!
[16:13:40] <tzanger> you can't do any serious work that way
[16:13:50] <tzanger> it's good for learning, and looking at the generated RTL is educational
[16:13:56] <soul-d> since i learned how to make components vhdl is not to shabby
[16:14:18] <creep> altera stuff is about 50% as fast as a xilinx
[16:14:35] <tzanger> what I like about Altera which is different from Xilinx is that Altera encourages you to write functional code and it'll infer the correct low-level structures, where ISE seems to be very stupid in this regard. you almost MUST instantiate the low-level objects to get something useful
[16:14:36] <creep> and somewhat looks less robust
[16:14:39] <OndraSter> and as 50% as available
[16:15:15] <tzanger> creep: where are you getting your numbers? everything I've used has shown them to be neck-and-neck, with Altera's PLLs and tools being superior
[16:15:22] <tzanger> Xilinx DCMs are *terrible*
[16:15:33] <creep> http://www.altera.com/devices/cpld/max2/overview/power/mx2-low_power.html
[16:15:38] <tzanger> Xilinx is definitely more popular in north america
[16:15:42] <tzanger> max2 is *old* man
[16:15:47] <creep> for example i have compared this 150MHz to the competitive 300MHz
[16:15:56] <tzanger> look at MaxV for CPLDs or Cyclone VI for low-end FPGAs
[16:16:34] <tzanger> I've never had the chance to work with *real* FPGAs (Arria or Stratix)
[16:16:39] <tzanger> those parts are damn expensive
[16:16:48] <soul-d> i could have had a normal stratix
[16:16:50] <soul-d> for 50$
[16:16:58] <soul-d> a piece but din't order them bakc then
[16:17:06] <tzanger> mind you the CyIV we used in this aircraft design was $250 in the (low) volumes we were using
[16:17:16] <tzanger> Which Stratix did you find for $50?
[16:17:22] <OndraSter> that is crazy price
[16:17:29] <OndraSter> you can get full blown Sandy Bridge for that!
[16:17:31] <soul-d> since i din't expect to be able to solder bga
[16:18:11] <soul-d> it was an offer on ebay i orderd some chips then he mailed me asking if i was intrested he only had few they where worth 200$ new was like 5 years back or so
[16:18:37] <tzanger> hm, low-end stratix is relatively cheap, I didn't know that
[16:18:41] <OndraSter> I have got here Cyclone II board
[16:18:43] <OndraSter> the cheap ebay stuff
[16:19:09] <tzanger> I have a Cyclone IV GX dev board (PCIe) and a Spartan III PCI dev board
[16:19:36] <tzanger> and a bunch of really low-end Spartan 2 baords on PCI but they are behind a PLX PCI-to-local-bus bridge
[16:20:20] <tzanger> haven't done much with DSP blocks or anything like that
[16:21:23] <soul-d> got a simple cyclone / cpld ready to make somthing from as exercise
[16:22:13] <soul-d> but pcb software never comply 's gonna give a kicad build from recent source a chance see if that one better then provided by distribution
[16:22:58] <creep> soo, altera wants the lead?
[16:23:09] <OndraSter> RoHS, no lead!
[16:23:13] <creep> ;>
[16:23:15] <OndraSter> :P
[16:24:25] <creep> haha interesting http://www.altera.com/literature/wp/wp-01076-led-driver-reduces-power-adjusting-intensity-ambient-light.pdf
[16:24:28] <tzanger> anyway, I'm happy to pay for Eagle, it's decent software, it's scriptable and it's multiplatform... those last two are big deals for me. the fact that it doesn't have yearly maintenance fees is a big one too
[16:25:07] <tzanger> creep: there were some neat uC projects based on that principle
[16:25:23] <manuel> eagle is super cheap too
[16:25:38] <OndraSter> and easy to use
[16:25:46] <soul-d> it annoyed me to much working with keyboard mouse donno exactly what it was probably somthing like it does different thing's according to it's mood /selection
[16:26:51] <manuel> i use a wacom tablet with eagle
[16:27:05] <manuel> and 4 monitors -> schem, layout, datasheet, bom
[16:27:08] <creep> hm last time i searched i haven't found altera fpgas at 1.8V, now i see some
[16:27:22] <soul-d> only have one of those cheap a4 wich partly works :P
[16:27:38] <manuel> partly? :}
[16:27:41] <manuel> not wacom i guess?
[16:27:52] <manuel> there's starting to be great competition for wacom, that's very cool
[16:28:03] <manuel> finally someone takes them up on their monopoly, i guess some patents expired
[16:28:06] <soul-d> oh one of those old ones still
[16:28:06] <tzanger> creep: the CyIV design I have has 3.3, 2.5, 1.8, 1.2 and 1.0, some of them multiple supplies at that voltage
[16:28:13] <soul-d> hyperpen
[16:28:19] <creep> wow, there are 1V stuff?
[16:28:35] <iSaleK> Since I don't have any logic analyzer or scope at the moment, would this one for cca 9e do the job for start? http://dx.com/p/logic-analyzer-w-dupont-lines-and-usb-cable-for-scm-black-148945
[16:29:23] <creep> it is still possible to translate 1V using transistors i think
[16:29:27] <tzanger> http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ledtouch/index.html
[16:29:29] <tzanger> that's the one
[16:29:45] <tzanger> creep: yeah the FPGA core voltage is 1.2 or 1.0V (L suffix)
[16:31:35] <creep> lol
[16:31:57] <creep> how cool to not know what you are doing and do something real cool stuff
[16:32:21] <soul-d> iSaleK, the spec's look ok for the price but question is if it will deliver
[16:32:24] <creep> i'm sure that touch stuff is not 'light sensing', but capacitive touch sensing
[16:32:51] <iSaleK> soul-d: Well since I don't have any logic analyzer or scope, I hope that it will at least work
[16:32:52] <creep> a led as capacitive touch sensor lol
[16:32:55] <creep> ;>>
[16:33:12] <manuel> if you want a small logic analyzer the saelae thingie is alright
[16:33:26] <iSaleK> soul-d: It's using USBee's software so this is only the hardware without their 2 analog channels... I hope it's worth the money :)
[16:33:49] <iSaleK> I will order it with Arduino Uno v3 and keep my fingers crossed that it all works :)
[16:33:52] <soul-d> best is to try and find some reviews projects in same line what you expect to be able to do
[16:34:05] <creep> would it be cool to use some capacitive pushbutton only on a device? like in off state only checking button once per second
[16:34:07] <creep> ?
[16:34:17] <creep> or that would drain battery fast
[16:34:32] <OndraSter> iSaleK, do not buy these cheap ones
[16:34:36] <OndraSter> they toast very quickly
[16:34:40] <OndraSter> I had saleae clone
[16:34:43] <OndraSter> it died within few hours
[16:34:50] <OndraSter> I only managed to try it out
[16:35:02] <OndraSter> after then - no communication with the software and after that no communication at all anymore
[16:35:05] <soul-d> can't you just interupt that creep ?
[16:35:05] <creep> i was thinking about some low power stuff like 4-25uA
[16:35:25] <OndraSter> iSaleK, don't you want to try something better than arduino? :P
[16:36:04] <iSaleK> OndraSter: I really do but since I'm still low on cache, I'm stuck with it :)
[16:36:17] <iSaleK> I'm still a student :)
[16:36:20] <OndraSter> so am I
[16:36:30] <OndraSter> my xboard sells for 20 eur + shipping :P
[16:36:33] <OndraSter> and it can do MUCH more
[16:36:47] <specing> iSaleK: STELLARIS!!!
[16:36:55] <OndraSter> ..
[16:36:56] <specing> 13$ free shipping
[16:37:04] <specing> 80 MHz cortex-M4F
[16:37:17] <OndraSter> SMPS or LDO on the board?
[16:37:21] <OndraSter> microSD card slot?
[16:37:31] <OndraSter> how fast ADCs and DACs?
[16:37:34] <OndraSter> how fast PWM?
[16:37:36] <specing> OndraSter: LDO
[16:37:43] <OndraSter> I have got SMPS
[16:37:52] <iSaleK> specing: I was looking for it at dx.com and they don't have it... I will order them all I'm sure, when I get the money :)
[16:37:54] <specing> OndraSter: SO what?
[16:37:58] <OndraSter> I win!
[16:38:01] <specing> OndraSter: yours is not 32 BIT!
[16:38:06] <specing> And it has no FPU
[16:38:08] <OndraSter> :P
[16:38:18] <specing> OR MPU
[16:38:19] <OndraSter> specing, so tell me, how much have you done on the stellaris
[16:38:23] <OndraSter> with FPU
[16:38:25] <specing> OR 32K RAM
[16:38:28] <OndraSter> wait, Cortex m4 has got MPU?
[16:38:33] <specing> yeah
[16:38:36] <OndraSter> o_O
[16:38:41] <specing> surprise, surprise
[16:38:42] <OndraSter> I thought that none of the cortex m has got it
[16:39:02] <iSaleK> It would be easier if I was going to school in my own town... this way I have to pay for rent, food, books, school and I'm unemployed :D
[16:39:14] <iSaleK> I'm doing really great if you consider all that :D
[16:40:27] <soul-d> if you got a pc with parralel port there was a logic analyzer program thingy for that i thought windows based ( contraditioni n termus since windows don't allow true acces you needed some hack )
[16:40:45] <iSaleK> specing: Wich stellaris do you recomment?
[16:40:54] <soul-d> http://jwasys.home.xs4all.nl/old/diy2.html
[16:40:55] <GuShH> soul-d: it did, in 9x...
[16:41:01] <soul-d> :D
[16:41:05] <soul-d> that was the one
[16:41:21] <iSaleK> and OndraSter give me a link to that xboard to see
[16:41:37] <specing> iSaleK: the launchpad
[16:45:04] <OndraSter> iSaleK, http://myxboard.net
[16:45:42] <specing> iSaleK: https://estore.ti.com/Stellaris-LaunchPad.aspx
[16:46:32] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> specing, so tell me, how much have you done on the stellaris
[16:46:38] <specing> well
[16:46:40] <OndraSter> as in
[16:46:43] <OndraSter> ON the stellaris
[16:46:47] <OndraSter> not by messing with the compiler
[16:46:49] <specing> I've got the hibernation module running
[16:46:56] <specing> (and the RTC ticking)
[16:47:03] <specing> blinked some leds...
[16:47:11] <OndraSter> hmm what about USB module
[16:47:15] <specing> and then uni messed with my life again
[16:47:25] <OndraSter> and how are the TI tools
[16:47:31] <OndraSter> because I have got atmel studio :P
[16:47:36] <specing> I don't use any "TI" tools
[16:47:58] <specing> arm-none-eabi-gcc and arm-none-eabi-gdb and openocd JTAG
[16:48:07] <OndraSter> btw for how much does the chip go on its own?
[16:48:10] <OndraSter> if you want to use it in your design
[17:03:46] <iSaleK> Why are all these ProfilicUSA chips (specificly usb2ttl converters) so hard to find or unpopular in europe?
[17:04:24] <GuShH> iSaleK: some are not even made anymore
[17:04:52] <iSaleK> So buying these would be a bad investment? -> http://dx.com/p/pl2303hx-usb-to-ttl-converter-module-149859
[17:04:56] <iSaleK> :)
[17:06:46] <iSaleK> what do you think? :0
[17:06:47] <iSaleK> ?
[17:06:48] <iSaleK> :)
[17:14:04] <OndraSter> they are often chinese copies
[17:14:06] <OndraSter> which terribly suck
[22:46:17] <zugz> if my atmega328 is taking a millisecond to perform a few hundred floating point operations, does that mean something's gone wrong? That I'm inadvertantly linking against the wrong libmath, maybe?
[22:56:26] <GuShH> zugz: it means you are using the wrong tool for the job
[22:57:40] <zugz> GuShH: fair enough
[23:00:13] <zugz> though adding -lm does make it about 6 times faster
[23:05:18] <Casper> zugz: someone did some benchmarks and said it can do about 8k per seconds
[23:05:25] <Casper> avoid floating if possible
[23:06:27] <zugz> Casper: looks like more like 100k per second to me, but yeah I'm getting that impression
[23:08:18] <Casper> the issue come from the fact that the AVR have no hardware divider