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[00:39:10] <creep> hm ;/
[00:39:32] <creep> looks like frying potatoes needs soldering temperature minimum
[00:40:22] <creep> @180C takes hours @220C is a bit slow, trying 240C
[00:42:24] <theBear> eh ? most ovens don't go past 220/240c, and you can roast-fry them (like potaoesanna) at under 200
[00:42:46] <creep> i happen to have an industriual hotplate that i can set from 0-270C
[00:43:44] <creep> i used a platinum RTD for temp sensing
[00:44:15] <creep> 220-240C is a ptfe limit :)
[00:44:56] <creep> above 240C, ptfe decomposes large amount of interesting chemical stuff that you think wouldn't like
[00:45:37] <creep> i use stainless steel container now
[00:45:55] <theBear> how much you cutting them up ? even cubes >1cm tend to need a lot of stirring
[00:46:38] <creep> i slice them to cut them to 5-10mm slices
[00:47:13] <creep> ***i slice them to 5-10mm slices, i like it if they are not thin sticks
[00:47:59] <theBear> mmm, i dunno much about non-oven cooking temps (never really measured) but that should be relatively 'easy' to cook
[00:48:30] <creep> well i do deep frying now in pig fat
[00:49:24] <creep> i have an IR oven too, but quite small, and i still haven't hacked a platinum temperature control in it
[00:49:41] <creep> also, ovens need air exchange control too to be perfect
[00:49:51] <Casper> potato and ognion, slice, interlace them, put in aluminium foil, add butter, cook :D
[00:50:19] <creep> i better not put it in aluminium foil ;>> i dislike dissolved aluminium
[00:50:50] <creep> that damages brain cells
[00:51:20] <creep> any non neutral PH stuff dissolves aluminium...
[00:53:33] <creep> so i didn't go over 270C either, not much use above that
[00:55:33] <Casper> I personally do not beleive that aluminium foil is of any danger
[00:55:36] <creep> btw.: the cheap crap hotplate from tesco corps uses some bimetal control that about 0-200C(+300C/-100) and with 50-300C hysteresis :)
[00:55:50] <theBear> meh, everything good dissolves brain cells
[00:56:07] <creep> it even burnst ptfe off a pan if you put water in it, lol- tested it
[00:57:20] <theBear> err, you don't use foil when you have a pan
[00:57:40] <theBear> and nonstick pans are always destroyed at high temps
[00:57:55] <creep> no
[00:58:10] <creep> a ceramic pan could handle 800C
[00:58:17] <theBear> yeah, but 'nonstick' means teflon
[00:58:22] <theBear> at least, that is the accepted usage
[00:58:39] <creep> well they call some new ceramic nonstick too
[00:58:59] <creep> but i'm concerned about the acrylic "binder" used
[00:59:26] <creep> they call it bio-ceramic :)
[00:59:56] <creep> ptfe is much better at 240C i think
[01:01:10] <creep> ah i'm now at 250C and my potatoes still aren't fried
[01:01:57] <creep> this is somewhat lower in the pot, i don't measure the inside temp, only the hotplate temp now
[01:03:07] <creep> it would be a little better to measure the pot's bottom like an induction heater does
[01:04:00] <creep> but there's induction heater for that
[01:05:45] <theBear> you waiting long enough ? potatoes don't cook quick
[01:06:21] <creep> waited 20 minutes
[01:06:54] <creep> i'll probably end up with potatoes in the IR oven
[01:07:15] <creep> the question is how
[01:08:05] <creep> should the IR heater be put behind some glass and fanned?
[01:08:30] <creep> that would definitely result in higher IR radiation inside if the inside air is temperature limited
[01:10:08] <creep> or will it be the same as with no temp control, and fan the whole oven inside
[01:10:34] <creep> just PWM control of heater elements
[01:11:30] <creep> interesting thing is, IR heats the potatoes inside too
[01:15:49] <creep> as a test i melted a pcb through a piece of glass with 2500W of IR source in 30s
[01:44:24] <creep> wow, that's hardware
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspectral_imaging
[02:18:27] <_abc__> Hello. Is current atmega8a production at rev. G or higher? Referring to 32khz osc caps for tosc1 tosc2 as sync timer.
[02:52:29] <_abc__> What is the current atmega8a revision? G or higher? Is the 32khz osc cap problem fixed?
[03:51:45] <OndraSter_> _abc__, check it on your chip
[03:59:48] <_abc__> How
[04:00:15] <_abc__> Also assume I buy new ones.
[04:01:07] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:01:12] <OndraSter_> you buy, you see :)
[04:01:17] <OndraSter_> or ask your supplier what they can offer
[04:01:21] <OndraSter_> also, atmega8a?
[04:01:23] <OndraSter_> they are OOLD
[04:01:26] <OndraSter_> get atmega88
[04:08:13] <RikusW> OndraSter_: 8A is newer afaik
[04:08:25] <OndraSter_> hmm,
[04:08:26] <OndraSter_> ,
[04:08:28] <RikusW> m8 is realy old
[04:08:28] <OndraSter_> ?
[04:08:32] <OndraSter_> it is just updated 8
[04:08:38] <OndraSter_> with better power management
[04:08:39] <RikusW> yeah
[04:08:55] <OndraSter_> mega88 is the same as 168/328 but smaller flash/RAM
[04:09:15] <RikusW> what does 88 have that 8A doesn't ?
[04:10:05] <RikusW> dW maybe ?
[04:10:18] <OndraSter_> double the RAM I think :)
[04:10:23] <OndraSter_> dW
[04:10:55] <OndraSter_> I don't know! I have got here only one or two atmega8Ls, mega168 from arduino and mega32
[04:10:59] <OndraSter_> and then bazilion of xmegas :P
[04:12:24] <RikusW> 8A is only 16MHz
[04:12:41] <OndraSter_> and 88 is 20?
[04:12:46] <RikusW> yes
[04:13:14] <RikusW> 8 got 130 and 88 131 instructions
[04:13:22] * RikusW wonders which one was added
[04:14:06] <RikusW> 88 got qtouch
[04:14:15] <OndraSter_> :)
[04:14:21] <OndraSter_> I told you that 88 is newer :)
[04:14:29] <OndraSter_> or better at least
[04:14:43] <OndraSter_> I do wonder at which manufacturing sizes are they made - 130nm? 90nm?
[04:14:45] <RikusW> m8 got rtc 88 doesn't
[04:15:12] <RikusW> 8 =3 and 88 =6 pwm
[04:15:22] <OndraSter_> 6 PWM...
[04:15:43] <OndraSter_> xmega in 44pin package has got 28? PWM channels?
[04:15:46] <RikusW> 88 got pinchange irq
[04:16:19] <OndraSter_> _abc__, see? Just get atmega88
[04:16:54] <RikusW> hm 88 got rtc too
[04:17:23] <RikusW> 88 is probably cheaper too
[04:17:32] <jadew> cheapper than m8?
[04:17:38] <jadew> I thought that's the cheappest chip
[04:17:40] <RikusW> maybe
[04:17:47] <OndraSter_> mega48 could be even cheaper
[04:17:54] <RikusW> older AVRs tend to get expensive
[04:18:05] <RikusW> just go try get a m16 or m128
[04:18:09] <OndraSter_> yeah
[04:18:18] <OndraSter_> I have got here boards for mega128 :(
[04:18:21] <jadew> atmega48 is more expensive
[04:18:31] <OndraSter_> just get xmega16d4 :)
[04:18:33] <RikusW> OndraSter_: but no ics ?
[04:18:33] <OndraSter_> or 32d4
[04:18:38] <jadew> not by much, but mega8 is still cheapper
[04:18:41] <OndraSter_> nope, they are ridiculously expensive
[04:19:13] <jadew> I'm playing with xmega16d4, they're delighfully cheap and awesome
[04:19:25] <OndraSter_> yep
[04:19:48] <OndraSter_> if you'd like to try something even more awesome, I will have a4u boards ready :)
[04:20:08] <OndraSter_> xmega128a4u
[04:20:23] <OndraSter_> 128+8K flash, 8K RAM, bazilion of peripherals
[04:20:35] <jadew> sounds expensive :)
[04:20:50] <jadew> how much is one of these chips?
[04:21:01] <RikusW> less than m128
[04:21:13] <RikusW> m128 is like 15Euro
[04:21:15] <RikusW> or more
[04:21:43] <OndraSter_> x128a4U? they go to $2.4 in 100 volumes
[04:21:51] <OndraSter_> 2.9 in 25 volumes I think
[04:21:55] <OndraSter_> I paid $69 for 25
[04:22:16] <jadew> that's not bad
[04:22:16] <OndraSter_> +VAT
[04:22:19] <OndraSter_> yep
[04:24:22] <jadew> just checked the datasheet, pretty cool
[04:24:29] <OndraSter_> yeah
[04:24:49] <OndraSter_> I am making arduino compatible boards, with SMPS instead of LDO, built-in SD card slot etc
[04:25:08] <jadew> I know
[04:25:14] <jadew> :)
[04:26:02] <jadew> what's the input for the smps?
[04:27:02] <RikusW> I see RS 719-4073 t25 is quite cheap :)
[04:27:52] <Tom_itx> OndraSter_, what's your target price for them?
[04:27:53] <OndraSter_> jadew, 4.5 - 24V
[04:28:04] <OndraSter_> Tom_itx, 19 or 20 eur + shipping (4 eur I think)
[04:28:15] <Tom_itx> with a smps?
[04:28:17] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:28:34] <jadew> RikusW, on my supplier's site they're the same price with t45 and almost the same with t85
[04:28:48] <OndraSter_> on mouser the t85 is ridiculously cheap
[04:28:50] <yunta> OndraSter_: on-board smps?
[04:28:53] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:28:56] <yunta> which chip?
[04:28:57] <OndraSter_> AP5100
[04:29:00] <yunta> ok
[04:29:02] <OndraSter_> from Diodes Inc.
[04:29:10] <OndraSter_> 1.2A out
[04:30:05] <yunta> interesting
[04:30:23] <yunta> I need something with ~5A. Do you know anything like that?
[04:30:36] <OndraSter_> TI's website
[04:30:52] <OndraSter_> I like the AP5100 - it is cheap and does what it says to
[04:31:10] <yunta> ok
[04:32:32] <yunta> heh, as always, too many of them to select from....
[04:32:40] <yunta> digikey has the same effect
[04:32:48] <yunta> bazzilion of smps chips
[04:34:08] <OndraSter_> use TI's selector
[04:40:02] <yunta> uh 5e before customs :(
[04:40:35] <OndraSter_> if you want to make a noise: MC34063 with external MOSFET
[04:40:38] <OndraSter_> :D :D
[04:41:34] <yunta> noise?
[04:43:37] * yunta is off to shower....
[04:45:42] <RikusW> 34063 is cheap
[04:52:17] <RikusW> seems like gui designers these days are idiots
[04:52:44] <RikusW> the RS catalogue can do fancy page turn animations
[04:52:51] <RikusW> but lacks proper searching :S
[04:53:10] <RikusW> all looks no guts :S
[04:53:30] <RikusW> and very resource heavy
[04:53:36] <RikusW> eating 1GB ram
[04:54:11] <OndraSter_> <yunta> noise?
[04:54:12] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:54:23] <OndraSter_> MC34063... some people call it switching regulator, some call it noise generator
[05:15:12] <inflex> heh
[05:15:42] <inflex> RikusW: yep, RS site sucks badly. E14 isn't too bad now that they fixed up the parametrics, still a bit slow though
[05:16:04] <inflex> it's like "OMGZ, let's add bling and poniez... fuck the usability or response"
[05:18:46] <jacekowski> and teh kitteh
[05:22:33] <theBear> it is bad, it doesn't say farnells, and the one thing i looked up in the last 18months has doubled in price since the name change
[05:24:41] <inflex> theBear: Farnell/E14 has always been a fickle price bastard of a place
[05:24:58] <inflex> theBear: some things are absurdly cheap compared to other suppliers... others are insanely stupidly expensive
[05:25:20] <inflex> and yeah, some things ballooned a lot too - but I find I can deflate a lot of them just by cross-quoting from Digikey
[05:26:11] <theBear> yeah, but something that crept up maybe 10 dollars in 15 years, and suddenly jumped to double that, aint right
[05:26:18] <theBear> i been watching them for a LONG time
[05:26:47] <theBear> shouldn't have to cross quote, shouldn't have to try to trust a new brand, they fucked the pony on this one
[05:27:03] <theBear> screwed the pooch
[05:27:09] <theBear> buggered the walrus !
[05:27:15] <theBear> now i go to lie down again
[05:32:09] <inflex> you do that... i'm going to go get some more action with the pooch
[05:53:24] <_abc__> So do you people see atmega8a rev G or later?
[05:54:11] <discorpia> later than rev g?
[05:54:30] <discorpia> don't think there is one
[05:54:32] <discorpia> is there?
[05:54:51] <_abc__> Also is there a way to sneak the osccal values read by a suitable programmer into a fixed location in gcc generated code where they can be picked up and put in osccal?
[05:55:44] <jadew> _abc__, you can put them in the eeprom
[06:13:36] <RikusW> inflex: totally agreed :S
[06:13:52] <RikusW> just wasted like 9MB of gprs data on that sloooow RS site
[06:14:11] <RikusW> if done properly it should've been < 90kb....
[06:15:07] <jadew> well, usually pictures alone are > 100kb :)
[06:16:03] * RikusW got imglikeopera
[06:16:05] <RikusW> so no pics
[06:16:11] <RikusW> and still 9MB...
[06:16:20] <RikusW> don't ask where it would be with pics...
[06:16:20] <jadew> then that's a lot of html
[06:16:45] <RikusW> single pages are like 300 - 400 kb
[06:16:50] <_abc__> Jadew sure, but where? Is there a convention?
[06:16:51] <jadew> lol
[06:16:55] <RikusW> for very little actual info
[06:17:12] <jadew> _abc__, nope, you have to read it when the mcu starts up and set OSCCAL with the read value
[06:17:21] <RikusW> _abc__: where ever you like to put it
[06:17:22] <jadew> so it's up to you where in the eeprom
[06:17:23] <Steffanx> No one cares about it anymore RikusW. Only 0.00001% is on a slow connection like you :P
[06:17:27] <Steffanx> @ RikusW
[06:17:45] <jadew> I still care
[06:17:53] <jadew> and I'm on an awesome connection
[06:17:55] <RikusW> I'll be on ADSL again soon Steffanx ;)
[06:18:04] <jadew> but slow shit is slow, no matter what connection you have
[06:18:12] <RikusW> agreed...
[06:18:20] <jadew> I see bloated crap all over the internet
[06:18:20] <_abc__> Jadew i am talking about osccal from signature high row for 8mhz etc
[06:18:46] <RikusW> seems like people don't know how to design usable sites anymore :S
[06:19:07] <RikusW> I'd do a better joob than most qualified web designers :-P
[06:19:08] <Steffanx> You are not the average "no one" so you don't count jadew )
[06:19:12] <jadew> RikusW, it's because there are way too many clueless people doing web dev
[06:19:40] <jadew> _abc__, what do you mean by "signature high row" - not familiar with this
[06:20:17] <Steffanx> Maybe it's me RikusW, but not much wrong with the rs search pages
[06:20:18] <OndraSter_> _abc__, why do you need it in the 1st place?
[06:20:30] <RikusW> jadew: signature and oscal are stored in the same address space
[06:20:50] <RikusW> Steffanx: I'm talking about the downloadable 1GB catalog
[06:20:52] <_abc__> Afaik it must be read from signature row and put in by the user program. It is not readable at runtime. So is there a convention for this?
[06:21:22] * Steffanx downloads
[06:21:23] <RikusW> _abc__: it might just be readable at runtime, see the LPM docs
[06:21:51] <_abc__> Ah true, i should try that
[06:22:10] <jadew> RikusW, they have a 1gb catalog?
[06:22:17] <_abc__> Where is signature row mapped in LPM runtime context?
[06:22:18] <RikusW> you'll need a few lines of asm, unless gcc supports it
[06:22:29] <RikusW> jadew: yes, all flash and pdf based
[06:22:44] <jadew> RikusW, ah... thought it's some db you can download and search trough it
[06:22:51] <RikusW> my 512MB ram is too litte :(
[06:22:57] <Steffanx> Get more
[06:23:00] <RikusW> I wished it was
[06:23:16] <RikusW> its DDR1, I'd rather get a new pc than more ram
[06:23:20] <Steffanx> heh
[06:24:52] <OndraSter_> I said myself the same about DDR2 about 2 years ago
[06:25:22] <jadew> _abc__: "If the internal RC is used at other frequencies, the calibration values must be loaded
[06:25:22] <jadew> manually. This can be done by first reading the signature row by a programmer, and then store
[06:25:22] <jadew> the calibration values in the Flash or EEPROM. Then the value can be read by software and
[06:25:22] <jadew> loaded into the OSCCAL Register."
[06:25:36] <OndraSter_> hmm
[06:25:45] <OndraSter_> can't read the NVM from internal code..
[06:25:47] <OndraSter_> sucks
[06:26:00] * OndraSter_ pats his xmega with NVM controller accessible from user code
[06:26:14] <jadew> it's not that big of an issue
[06:26:30] <OndraSter_> there is bazilion of all kinds of calibration values on xmega
[06:26:33] <jadew> _abc__, that's taken from the datasheet, not some random source
[06:28:20] <RikusW> _abc__: check the SPMCSR register
[06:29:31] <RikusW> _abc__: set the SIGRD bit, then you can easily get the osccal values
[06:30:25] <RikusW> bit0 = 1 to read osccal ( all odd values)
[06:30:47] <RikusW> Z = 1 3 5 for osccal 0 1 2
[06:31:45] <RikusW> SPMCSR = (1<<SIGRD)|(1<<SPMEN);
[06:31:48] <RikusW> LPM
[06:32:43] <RikusW> _abc__: which avr is that for ?
[06:36:30] <Steffanx> I agree RikusW. The interfaces of that app is not perfect :P
[06:36:32] <Steffanx> And slow
[06:36:37] <jadew> OndraSter_, how fast do you think you can sample 8/16 bits and store them in external memory?
[06:36:42] <jadew> with an xmega
[06:37:19] <jadew> Steffanx, talking abour rs?
[06:37:24] <Steffanx> Yes
[06:37:31] <Steffanx> The downloadable catalog
[06:37:35] <jadew> yeah, searching for something is horrific
[06:37:50] <jadew> I find the RS site to be very poorly organized
[06:38:08] <Steffanx> No, not the site. The downloadable catalog :)
[06:38:21] <OndraSter_> jadew, 8/16bits of IO?
[06:38:27] <jadew> OndraSter_, yeah
[06:38:34] <OndraSter_> fclk/2
[06:38:36] <jadew> Steffanx, don't know that one :P but I hate the site
[06:38:37] <OndraSter_> feel free to use DMA
[06:39:03] <jadew> OndraSter_, so how fast is that, can you actually push an xmega to 200Mhz?
[06:39:16] <jadew> 100Mhz sampling speed would be enough for a usb analyzer:)
[06:39:16] <OndraSter_> lol you cannot push it to 200MHz
[06:39:32] <jadew> OndraSter_, well, that's what the docs are implying
[06:39:59] <OndraSter_> I ran the core at 80MHz with GPIO
[06:40:10] <jadew> in the datasheet for the xmega d4 series, they mention that you can use PLL as a system clock "but make sure not to go beyond 200Mhz"
[06:40:32] <OndraSter_> thus some peripherals would run at 160/320MHz in theory (they run at fper2/fper4)
[06:40:37] <OndraSter_> heh
[06:40:45] <OndraSter_> the PLL is good only upto 128MHz IIRC
[06:40:59] <OndraSter_> no idea what happens after that
[06:41:19] <jadew> hmm... so that would give you what? 60M samples / second
[06:41:27] <OndraSter_> haha
[06:41:31] <OndraSter_> but the core won't run at those speeds
[06:41:55] <OndraSter_> for high speed sampling you NEED fpga or cpld
[06:41:55] <jadew> why not, you said you had it running at 80
[06:42:00] <OndraSter_> yes
[06:42:02] <OndraSter_> but that was JUST GPIO
[06:42:04] <OndraSter_> and core
[06:42:09] <OndraSter_> no other peripherals enabled
[06:42:15] <OndraSter_> 84MHz already crashed the core
[06:42:21] <jadew> I see
[06:42:31] <jadew> I had it running at 66Mhz with PWM
[06:43:02] <OndraSter_> you can run PWM at 128MHz without any overclocking
[06:43:07] <OndraSter_> not sure if on D series though
[06:43:19] <jadew> that would be pretty sweet
[06:43:31] <OndraSter_> it is 19bit then
[06:43:41] <OndraSter_> it triples the speed by enabling high resolution peripheral
[06:43:44] <OndraSter_> err
[06:43:48] <OndraSter_> 8 times the speed
[06:43:51] <OndraSter_> by adding 3 more bits
[06:43:56] <jadew> I need to look into that, yeah
[06:44:05] <jadew> I noticed it has that high resolution thing
[06:44:13] <OndraSter_> and then there is AWeX
[06:44:14] <jadew> but didn't know what it does
[06:44:17] <OndraSter_> I haven't really checked what it can do
[06:44:27] <jadew> me either
[06:44:31] <OndraSter_> but it seemed like something you could use to drive steppers without single line of code
[06:44:36] <OndraSter_> with H-bridges and what not
[06:44:39] <OndraSter_> afk
[06:44:41] <jadew> yeah
[06:48:25] <RikusW> Steffanx: I open the pdfs in the data/ dir using foxit instead of using their slow app
[07:07:36] <_abc__> Rikusw it's atmega8a for low cost. Reading fuses and lock bits from software makes no mention of reading cal bytes, i assume the cal bytes should be at Z= 0 2 4 6 no?
[07:08:59] <RikusW> seems 8A don't have the sigrd bit
[07:09:25] <_abc__> No, manual p 220 says load Z with 0 for lock, 1 for fuse low, 3 for fuse high. So cal for 2Mhz should be at 2 and then the next ones? Why is this not documented?
[07:12:02] <_abc__> So maybe it is not implemented?
[07:12:11] <_abc__> On atmega8a?
[07:13:59] <RikusW> you need to set the SIGRD bit in SPMCSR
[07:14:56] <_abc__> No such bit.
[07:15:12] <_abc__> Is it 5 on other atmegas?
[07:15:25] <RikusW> m32u2 does have it, seems 8 and 88 doesn't
[07:15:32] <RikusW> yes bit5
[07:15:38] <_abc__> 8 implements lock and fuse byte read using lpm
[07:15:54] <_abc__> Bit5 is reserved on atmega8a
[07:15:59] <RikusW> try setting bit5 ;)
[07:16:07] <RikusW> maybe just maybe it works ;)
[07:16:22] <_abc__> Ugh
[07:16:41] <RikusW> is this a once off project ?
[07:16:47] <RikusW> or multiple units ?
[07:17:03] <_abc__> Ill hack a procedure to get the data from the atmega in the programmer and write it to flash or eeprom
[07:17:06] <RikusW> for once off compile into flash ?
[07:17:27] <_abc__> It must run automated under make, no manual tinkering
[07:17:55] <_abc__> How do i allocate fixed address data in gcc?
[07:18:09] <RikusW> I'd use eeprom
[07:18:19] <RikusW> you could try sections
[07:18:58] <_abc__> Eg u_char_8t foo @0x4182 FLASH;
[07:19:17] <_abc__> Okay ill figure it out. Thanks.
[07:19:51] <_abc__> Weird that atmega does not load the osc const selected by ckopt at reset time
[07:20:25] <jadew> it does, but not for all frequencies
[07:20:40] <_abc__> Only for 1Mhz...
[07:20:44] <jadew> yeah
[07:21:30] <jadew> you should know that RC osc drifts a lot
[07:22:21] <jadew> if the project allows it, you might want to consider auto calibration at start up
[07:22:56] <_abc__> No
[07:31:48] <_abc__> It drifts very little even in low cost parts
[07:32:31] <jadew> _abc__, the drift made it unusable for serial communication, with out run-time calibration
[07:33:59] <jadew> it was working fine after the calibration, but after a while it wasn't reliable anymore so I was calibrating it on each start up
[08:05:49] <tzanger> wow that is damn cold out there today
[08:14:21] <Steffanx> it's only -3C tzanger
[08:18:31] <yunta> feels like -10 here (helsinki)
[08:19:10] <inkjetunito> sth like -1 and a millimeter of snow here :O
[08:21:27] <inkjetunito> yunta: how's jauheliha? in euros per kilo...
[08:21:51] <yunta> I don't know what it is :)
[08:22:09] <inkjetunito> yunta: minced meat
[08:22:52] <yunta> I don't like minced meat so I don't know :)
[08:23:30] <inkjetunito> yunta: no problem. back to coding :o
[08:24:25] <darknite> don't like minced meat as in you don't like/eat any meat or is it just minced meat you don't like in particular?
[08:26:53] <tzanger> it's the wind here today that is awful
[08:27:09] <tzanger> yep, -4C here, with wind chill it's -12C
[08:27:29] <tzanger> a bit cold on bare skin, I need my tooque
[08:27:59] <RikusW> 26C here :)
[08:28:33] <tzanger> it was 12C yesterday
[08:29:10] <yunta> darknite: I usually don't like taste of pig/cow -kind of meat, but still enjoy it in burgers. And I like chicken. So, it's not religious.
[08:30:24] * RikusW is allergic to beef :-/
[08:30:33] <darknite> yunta: aha, cool. has your taste always been like that?
[08:30:38] <RikusW> ironically living on a cattle farm...
[08:30:48] <darknite> -8 here and clear sky (a little bit of wind but not much)
[08:30:56] <darknite> in stockholm
[08:31:34] <yunta> darknite: yes, is that wrong? :D
[08:33:14] <darknite> yunta: haha, no, not at all. just curious. i always preferred minced meat (and spare ribs), and then i became a vegetarian and then a vegan and then went back to omnivoric eating habits
[08:33:35] <darknite> yunta: but when i got back to eating meat i found myself drawn to the opposite of your taste basically
[08:34:38] <yunta> lol
[08:34:45] <darknite> yunta: anything minced/stewed was just "meh" (even though it does taste fucking fantastic) but i all of the sudden i saw the point of thick stakes done rare
[08:35:07] <yunta> rare..... bleah..
[08:35:09] <yunta> :D
[08:35:38] <RikusW> rare ? like almost still running rare ? :-P
[08:35:53] <yunta> raw :)
[08:36:06] <darknite> RikusW: yeah, something like that
[08:36:08] <RikusW> alive ? ;)
[08:36:19] <darknite> i don't mind it being a little bit touched by heat though, on the outside
[08:36:21] <yunta> I find clean meat, cleanly cut and fried for ages - rather tasty. But you can't buy that in restaurants usually.
[08:36:37] <yunta> but taste of blood makes me want to puke :)
[08:36:50] <yunta> I envy you though
[08:37:05] <RikusW> over here we eat pickled dried meat, called biltong
[08:37:15] <RikusW> and dried sausage
[08:37:21] <RikusW> raw dried...
[08:37:23] <darknite> nowadays i eat.. anything. usually too tight schedule to make my own food, and gf mostly cooks evegetarian food since she doesn't eat red meat or birds
[08:37:38] <RikusW> its considered a delicacy
[08:37:50] <yunta> nice, convenient
[08:38:13] <tzanger> there are a lot of things considered delicacies that I wouldn't touch
[08:38:37] <RikusW> once dry it taste a lot different that raw meat
[08:38:42] <RikusW> *than
[08:39:02] <RikusW> and if there is a strip of oily yellow fat on the side its a BONUS :)
[08:40:27] <RikusW> the hard white fat, well, don't it that....
[08:40:36] <RikusW> s/it/eat/
[09:11:39] <theBear> biltong is a fnacy name for jerky
[09:12:10] <theBear> and done well, it's not too bad, and even tastes a bit like cooked meat if it's fresh enough
[09:15:04] <Steffanx> No, biltong is the REAL name theBear
[09:15:21] <theBear> meh, depends what country you ask, and i don't count america, don't ask them anything :)
[09:16:03] <theBear> and i do like jamaicans, they talk funny and their religion involves pot :)
[11:52:26] <abetusk> If I wanted to add an indicator LED on a data line, I could just route the signal through an LED and an appropriate resistor without worry? As long as the current draw is less than 20mA?
[11:52:55] <GuShH> abetusk: depends on the protocol and it's speed
[11:53:19] <abetusk> GuShH, a step line to an A4988 stepper driver
[11:53:26] <GuShH> data rate?
[11:53:35] <abetusk> kHz maybe?
[11:53:42] <GuShH> put the resistor and led in parallel with the load
[11:53:47] <GuShH> so the coil
[11:54:06] <GuShH> (output side)
[11:54:19] <GuShH> do you really need it anywhere else?
[11:54:48] <GuShH> if the "signal" just goes high and you have enough driving current, hook the led and resistor directly, otherwise use a transistor.
[11:55:06] <GuShH> easiest is to just have the leds in parallel with the coils
[11:55:28] <tzanger> GuShH: I generally drive the LED through a transistor just to help keep the loading of the data line down
[11:56:10] <tzanger> and if you don't want a "flickering" effect, use the data line to drive a monostable multivibrator so that when the line goes active, you get a fixed-duty blink
[11:56:16] <tzanger> but that's almost never worth it
[11:56:17] <GuShH> or you could just buffer the whole gpio array with a darlington array
[11:56:37] <GuShH> who cares about the flickering heh
[11:56:49] <tzanger> GuShH: depends on the application, but I think the same as you
[11:57:02] <abetusk> Sorry for the noob question, but just hooking up a transistor to the data line won't drive the data line low because of the .7V drop from gate to drain?
[11:57:19] <abetusk> also, I think it's a feature to see it flicker, you can see how fast it's sending steps...
[11:58:10] <tzanger> abetusk: you put a nice resistor in series with the base to limit the affect of the transistor b-e junction as well as limit the current to the base anyway
[11:58:22] <tzanger> abetusk: it really depends on your application though
[11:58:31] <abetusk> and putting it on the coil side, it's 24V...just put a burly reistor to make sure only a little current goes through
[11:58:35] <abetusk> tzanger, ah, I see
[11:58:54] <GuShH> meh
[11:59:14] <GuShH> with modern LEDs you only need a few uAs for usable, visible light...
[11:59:21] <tzanger> uA? um, no.
[11:59:30] <GuShH> power dissipation on the resistors will be irrelevant compared to your loads
[11:59:32] <GuShH> um, yes.
[11:59:38] <tzanger> unless you mean like 10kuA
[11:59:39] <GuShH> tzanger: do you live in a dirt hole?
[11:59:51] <tzanger> you will want a few milliamps
[11:59:55] <GuShH> you don't
[11:59:56] <tzanger> unless you're using really expensive LEDs
[12:00:09] <GuShH> ok you are clearly still using russia's old LED stock.
[12:00:16] <tzanger> GuShH: which LEDs do you use which light up reasonably bright with a few microamps of forward current?
[12:00:33] <GuShH> define bright
[12:00:40] <tzanger> reasonable
[12:00:46] <GuShH> I said usable light, visible.
[12:00:46] <tzanger> not a tiny pinprick of light
[12:00:50] <tzanger> right
[12:01:13] <tzanger> again, what's the part number of one you recommend which lights up reasonably bright with a few microamps of forward current?
[12:01:19] <GuShH> you don't need a few mAs across a high brightness LED, it used to be the case you had to drive regular LEDs at 10mA to get usable light
[12:01:29] <GuShH> tzanger: again, I'm not in the mood to measure dicks right now.
[12:01:44] <tzanger> me either
[12:01:57] <GuShH> amee2woof might be
[12:01:58] <tzanger> but microamps is something I really do not believe you've measured nor design for
[12:02:27] <[1]MrMobius> is there a way to make a circuit that has an LED in series with a resistor but that stops using the resistor when the current from the battery source drops below a certain level?
[12:03:28] <[1]MrMobius> maybe bypass is a better word than stops using
[12:03:49] <tzanger> I'm going over my old digikey orders for the last order to pull up a datasheet
[12:04:23] <tzanger> it seems I haven't ordered leds in a while
[12:04:57] <GuShH> tzanger: and yet you do want to measure it.
[12:05:40] <GuShH> to make you happy why don't we make him use adjustable constant current sources
[12:05:45] <tzanger> no, I'm saying I believe you're wrong. I don't care if you're a better designer or have done more cool shit, that would be measuring dicks
[12:05:46] <GuShH> that'll do.
[12:06:01] <GuShH> well I'm not...
[12:06:12] <tzanger> I'm saying "your statement that modern high efficiency leds only require microamps of current to produce reasonable amounts of light" is wrong
[12:06:29] <GuShH> that's not a valid quote
[12:06:58] <GuShH> reasonable depends on your own perception.
[12:07:17] <GuShH> can you get visible light out of a few uAs with modern LEDs?, yes you can.
[12:07:43] <GuShH> Will it be usable in an outdoor scenario, on the desert? It won't. Will it be usable indoors, inside a rack? it will.
[12:08:11] <tzanger> these shitty yellow leds I bought last time (lite-on C171KSKT) say 50mcd at 20mA. those are admittedly shitty though
[12:08:16] <GuShH> It won't be a dick compensating flashlight, it'll be an indicator.
[12:08:56] <GuShH> yellows are on the poor scale in general
[12:09:15] <soul-d> yellow is hard to do since thats wide spectrum mine probabbly even less like 20mcd
[12:09:21] <tzanger> well you said usable, which is why I was trying to figure out what you meant. I'm not trying to hold you to some value or intensity level. it seems that both you and I are saying the same thing... a reasonable amount of light, something you coudl easily tell if it was on or off in a typical setting (i.e. not an unlit room)
[12:09:30] <soul-d> v.s 3000 mcd for blue leds
[12:09:31] <tzanger> yep which is why I said "these shitty yellow leds"
[12:09:37] <soul-d> these are 5 years old
[12:09:45] <tzanger> I'm looking up a reasonably-priced high-eff red led now
[12:09:49] <tzanger> more for my own curiosity
[12:10:56] <tzanger> wow they've got red leds up to 9800mcd
[12:11:59] <tzanger> ok, digikey lets me select on test current... 1mA turns up Rohm SML-P11VTT86 (never used 'em, $0.50 ea in onesie-twosie qty, which is probably why I've never used them)
[12:12:35] <tzanger> that's also why I was asking how much you paid for your LEDs... you can get super high effeciency ones but that's like paying for nitrogen in your tires
[12:12:50] <tzanger> sure it does *something* but unless you're really looking for it, you won't notice
[12:13:13] <tzanger> bah rohm's site is slow/down
[12:13:34] <amee2woof> GuShH: s/dicks/tails/
[12:13:36] <GuShH> you mean you can put air instead of nitrogen? oooh
[12:13:40] <tzanger> chicago miniature has CMD28 LEDs for $0.60 which should be comparable
[12:13:41] <GuShH> amee2woof: I don't know man...
[12:13:58] <amee2woof> yes you do
[12:14:03] <tzanger> hm, no maybe it's my browser that is on crack
[12:14:33] <tzanger> mind you those are 0.16mcd at 1mA
[12:14:59] <GuShH> now let's argue what happens when the user is partially blind...
[12:15:32] <GuShH> amee2woof: how may tails do you own?
[12:16:22] <tzanger> well no then you start getting into pedanticism, which I'm specifically trying to avoid
[12:16:36] <tzanger> hence my use of "reasonable" both for cost and intensity at microampere current levels
[12:16:49] <amee2woof> GuShH: one imaginary tail
[12:16:53] <GuShH> what if cost isn't an issue? maybe not everyone lives in China
[12:17:00] <GuShH> amee2woof: so you are not out of the kennel yet
[12:18:00] <amee2woof> pretty much everyone i know should know it by now, if thats not enough for you then you're welcome to buy me a tail
[12:18:21] <GuShH> Don't know, they must be pretty expensive.
[12:18:26] <tzanger> well if you want to play that way simply tell us which LEDs you use that give reasonable light levels at (how many) microamps... I'm pretty sure that you're either using (fairly) expensive LEDs or your definition of reasonable is drastically different than mine
[12:19:27] <GuShH> tzanger: I would rather have you on a quest for the best LEDs than to give it away for nothing!
[12:19:38] <tzanger> I think most people in here are hobbyiests and have similar definitions of both resonable price for a generic LED and also for reasonable brightness... if you're after a specific feature then things change but we're talking generics here, and at least as far as I am able to determine, there is no reasonably priced generic indicator LED that puts out resonable light levels at microamps of current draw
[12:19:40] * GuShH hides behind amee2woof's sofa
[12:20:35] <amee2woof> GuShH: depending on the quality of the materials and the complexity of the design, they go for like 20-30USD and upwards
[12:24:00] <GuShH> amee2woof: hahah the fact that you know is just hilarious
[12:24:23] <jadew> the LEDs in 7 segment displays are giving light at 500uA, not exactly resonable, but visible
[12:24:24] <GuShH> see, I couldn't just buy you the cheapest one... I'd have to invest on something better, but I can't afford tails right now.
[12:24:30] * GuShH is not a furry by the way, not that it matters
[12:25:35] <GuShH> jadew: "reasonable" is way too high for some people though
[12:26:05] <amee2woof> http://www.wolfehworks.com/site/tailpricing.html
[12:26:16] <amee2woof> took two minutes to find :P
[12:26:34] <tzanger> ... tails?
[12:27:03] <amee2woof> http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2828983/ here you can order by the inch :P
[12:27:24] <tzanger> I'm just not going to click
[12:27:58] <GuShH> haha
[12:28:16] <amee2woof> i carefully phrased that line for out of context quote points :P
[12:28:27] <tzanger> reasonable illumiation would be something like what you'd see on a network port of a computer, or an ethernet switch, or monitor power led, or even the charge indicator on a mac... pretty standard stuff
[12:28:31] <tzanger> not
[12:28:45] <tzanger> "holy fuck my eyes are melting" bright nor "yeah I can make it out if it's in a dark room" dim
[12:29:10] <jadew> tzanger, yeah, in a well lit room, you might miss it, but I'm sure that it delivers enough just under 1mA
[12:29:27] <jadew> at 1mA you can clearly see it, at about 3-4 it's perfect tho
[12:29:59] <tzanger> yeah I'd expect a normal LED to be around 5mA for resonableness, but I'm a little surprised that it's acceptable down at 1
[12:30:15] <tzanger> especially for "frosted" 7 seg displays
[12:30:23] <tzanger> diffused I think is the word I was after
[12:30:30] <jadew> yeah, I was surprised too when I tried this things out the first time
[12:31:00] <soul-d> imgur is being piece of crap again
[12:31:03] <soul-d> but tzanger
[12:31:04] <soul-d> http://imgur.com/a/yR0uf
[12:31:07] <GuShH> haha the charge indicator on a mac is standard?
[12:31:21] <tzanger> so I guess I should concede to GuShH... at a kilomicroamp we start to agree
[12:31:21] <GuShH> fuck yeah let's ramp it so it seems like it's breathing and charge these retards 4 times the price.
[12:31:24] <GuShH> baristas.
[12:31:37] <tzanger> GuShH: that's the sleep indicator, not the one on the power supply connector
[12:31:42] <tzanger> my mac doesn't have that silly led thing
[12:31:44] <GuShH> you are using old LEDs
[12:32:10] <tzanger> soul-d: that blue led is pretty damn bright at 200uA
[12:32:24] <soul-d> but that blue is strong indeed
[12:32:34] <jadew> and annoying
[12:32:37] <tzanger> it's probably got a real narrow viewing angle too from thel ook of it
[12:32:39] <jadew> blue leds should be banned
[12:32:44] <tzanger> looks like the type of led they put on TVs
[12:32:48] <tzanger> which yes, should be outlawed
[12:33:17] <tzanger> I don't know who thought that was a great idea... let's put a miniature blue sun on the face of the TV and light it up when they're staring right at it
[12:33:41] <jadew> tzanger, or worse, when it's off!
[12:33:46] <soul-d> yeah same as pc light got few tapes on it
[12:33:54] <tzanger> jadew: I'm actually a huge fan of dim red LEDs to indicate offness
[12:34:07] <jadew> haha, I used tape on mine as well, on the monitor too
[12:34:20] <tzanger> yep me too, on my water cooler
[12:34:20] <jadew> tzanger, I like everything to be off, when it's off
[12:34:26] <jadew> green = ok, red = not ok
[12:34:28] <tzanger> my PC just has nothing plugged in
[12:34:41] <tzanger> jadew: for me I like to know it's plugged in/on standy/receiving power
[12:34:56] <tzanger> red = standby, off = on (since you obviously see the TV image or hear the receiver)
[12:35:07] <tzanger> and blinking ONLY when there's a problem of some kind
[12:35:23] <soul-d> if you wanted to have the brand
http://i.imgur.com/wOuiG.jpg?1 :P you can look up how old the blue ones are
[12:35:49] <soul-d> both them in japan when i was there no to cheap i see either
[12:36:06] <soul-d> 3k yen probabbly around 30 eur
[12:36:07] <tzanger> 2200mcd at 20mA? jesus imagine that
[12:36:46] <soul-d> so pic was just 40% power and that already anoyingly blinds one
[12:37:02] <specing> tzanger: I fail to imagine that
[12:37:13] <specing> I guess one cd is like a candle being lit
[12:37:20] <specing> but what kind of a candle?
[12:37:32] <tzanger> actually there's a lot more to it than that
[12:37:45] <tzanger> mcd = luminous intensity at a specific viewing angle
[12:37:54] <tzanger> lumens = luminous intensity over all angles
[12:38:06] <tzanger> and both ignore spectral characteristics
[12:38:34] <tzanger> when I get to my shop I'll try a few of the ones I have
[12:38:42] <jadew> tzanger, yeah, I have no problem with it being off when the device is off, however it's useful to be on where there's an issue
[12:38:45] <GuShH> tzanger:
http://gushh.net/tmp/led.jpg by the way that's how I perceived it, adjusted the iso until it looked right with the given ambient light. And before you say anything, I made sure I used the most generic LEDs I have around, which came from dx.com
[12:38:47] <jadew> at least the led being on tells you something
[12:38:55] <tzanger> http://www.power-sure.com/lumens.htm <-- found that, haven't read it all
[12:39:05] <GuShH> that's a few uAs by anyone's standards and that's visible. Usable in all scenarios? perhaps not.
[12:39:30] <GuShH> Enough with this nonsense? modern LEDs emit useful light at a few uAs, period.
[12:39:30] <tzanger> GuShH: I would also consider that reasonably bright
[12:39:43] <soul-d> it always depends on purpose
[12:39:54] <jadew> are you sure your meter is working properly?
[12:39:55] <GuShH> no need for datasheets, no need to start measuring mcds and perhaps even call people liars and begin a 100 year feud
[12:40:12] <GuShH> jadew: are you sure your eyes are working properly?
[12:40:22] <jadew> my eyes can't see amps
[12:40:37] <tzanger> GuShH: I never called you a liar, I said plainly that I did not believe you. I'm happy to be wrong but microamps for reasonable brightness did not compute
[12:40:37] <jadew> it's a resonable question
[12:40:40] <GuShH> but you are relating output light to amperage
[12:40:46] <tzanger> and liek I said I want to try a few of my own when I get to my shop
[12:40:46] <GuShH> jadew: it is calibrated in all modes.
[12:40:56] <tzanger> GuShH: at any rate, I do concede
[12:41:10] <GuShH> actually on vdc it's within 0.05%, do you want me to measure voltage drop across the resistor instead?
[12:41:41] <GuShH> the catch here is the narrow beam of the LED in question.
[12:41:59] <GuShH> if you were to broaden it by for example diffusion, you wouldn't be able to see much.
[12:42:16] <tzanger> GuShH: yes, that was one thing I expected. I don't think it has an awfully high luminous rating but that is definitely reasonably bright
[12:42:19] <GuShH> because the photons would scatter throughout the surface and there wouldn't be enough available at a given time to allow you to perceive light
[12:42:47] <GuShH> focusing... hint, lasers.
[12:43:19] <jadew> sounds like a shitty led
[12:43:59] <tzanger> jadew: it likely is, but that wasn't the argument. :-)
[12:45:16] <GuShH_> woot
[12:46:15] <tzanger> hm, the chrome update seems to have killed the kill-flash extension
[12:47:23] <GuShH_> jadew:
http://gushh.net/tmp/led2.jpg thermal differences aside I should recal the uA low scale, since it's overshooting.
[12:47:40] <GuShH_> that would be mV on the screen.
[12:47:50] <GuShH_> the drop across the resistor.
[12:48:07] <GuShH_> alright enough nonsense back to wasting oxygen.
[12:48:18] * GuShH_ goes back to wasting oxygen
[12:51:52] <soul-d> http://i.imgur.com/WR4bK.jpg
[12:52:00] <soul-d> single blue @ 20 ma
[12:52:18] <ferdna> thats bright
[12:52:35] <GuShH_> that's how an external hdd enclosure I had would indicate power.
[12:52:47] <GuShH_> they should ship them with a pice of black tape .... because it's really required.
[12:52:59] <GuShH_> the thing would NOT let you fall asleep.
[12:53:17] <ferdna> same thing here with keyboard, mouse and motherboard
[12:53:17] <soul-d> or have to drill it out if's in nasty place
[12:53:29] <jadew> in soviet russia light emits you
[12:54:02] <jadew> I like the blue theme of your room
[12:54:04] <jadew> avatar fan?
[12:54:25] <tzanger> GuShH_: I get a 404 on that led2
[12:54:46] <jadew> he removed it
[12:55:03] <tzanger> GuShH_: and even then they'd shine through the black tape? :-)
[12:55:16] <GuShH_> yes
[12:55:17] <GuShH_> tzanger: I could upload it again, actual reading was in volts because the supply voltage was over 16v and it was dropping that much to provide that little current
[12:55:25] <tzanger> nah it's fine, I was just curiosu
[12:55:48] <GuShH_> there.
[12:55:48] <jadew> tzanger, I cut a piece of black paper from the cover of a magazine and taped it over my PC's power leds
[12:55:50] <jadew> and they still shine
[12:55:54] <jadew> lol, FREAKING 404
[12:55:56] <jadew> haha
[12:56:18] <GuShH_> they should legally punish those who ship out products with blinding blue indicators.
[12:56:34] <GuShH_> it's not cool. but this is what we get for not having blue for so much time
[12:56:39] <GuShH_> people put them everywhere.
[12:56:49] <soul-d> true also i see blue more out of focus then other colors
[12:57:30] <jadew> yeah
[12:58:20] <tzanger> soul-d: blue is the colour human eyes are least sensitive to
[12:58:30] <tzanger> it seems to also have a defocussing effect
[12:58:42] <tzanger> which is why I can't stand my passat's blue lighting in the instrument cluster
[12:59:01] <soul-d> it hurts on clocks they have at stations hard to focus on them and i see it double more easily then other colors
[13:05:03] <GuShH_> confirmed with the other two meters, uA needs recal ... off by over 2% on that range. but it's not that bad.
[13:05:10] <GuShH_> actually a bit under 2%.
[13:05:19] <GuShH_> did anyone say pedantic...
[13:05:47] <GuShH_> But it's important to keep your instruments calibrated, otherwise you can't trust them. Or people like jadew will put doubts in your mind
[13:10:04] <GuShH_> soul-d: public spaces with BLUE clocks?
[13:10:14] <GuShH_> that just confirms it, people are nuts.
[13:10:52] <GuShH_> If they could, Marketing departments would invent new colours just to sell you the same crap with a different name.
[13:15:23] <kulminaa1or> blue leds make computers faster, just like turbo stickers
[13:15:38] <OndraSter> like white stripes on a red car
[13:15:45] <OndraSter> +5BHP per stripe
[13:15:57] <soul-d> gush bit hard to see but seems to be taken mid summer :P ->
http://goo.gl/maps/qiYds
[13:16:01] <OndraSter> mm where are the times of TURBO button on a motherboard :(
[13:16:04] <ssn> hi guys
[13:16:08] <ssn> does anyonw know if i can put a microcontroller to sleep while a transistor is driven with it?
[13:16:24] <OndraSter> well you can
[13:16:29] <OndraSter> it keeps the GPIO low/high
[13:16:36] <OndraSter> unless you of course disable it
[13:17:01] <GuShH_> OndraSter: I still have a 286 with a turbo button
[13:17:38] <OndraSter> I have got XT chassis with turbo button
[13:17:43] <OndraSter> and many other AT chassises
[13:17:48] <OndraSter> with turbo buttons
[13:17:49] <GuShH_> but I mean full PC
[13:17:52] <OndraSter> :)
[13:17:55] <GuShH_> I threw away all the old cases
[13:17:56] <OndraSter> I gave away all the 286 boards
[13:17:59] <GuShH_> some I even set on fire with gasoline
[13:18:01] <OndraSter> in exchange for Atari 800XE
[13:18:05] <GuShH_> and one of them had a mobo in it... and well
[13:18:15] <GuShH_> it sounds like fireworks when the caps explode :D
[13:18:20] <OndraSter> :D
[13:18:28] <GuShH_> the black smoke, not so fun.
[13:18:29] <OndraSter> I killed few caps by reverse polarity
[13:18:32] <GuShH_> don't try this at home
[13:18:33] <OndraSter> -32V into elyte!
[13:18:35] <OndraSter> hehe
[13:18:38] <OndraSter> I ofc did it outside
[13:18:46] <OndraSter> -15V was not enough to kill it
[13:18:49] <OndraSter> it got very hot
[13:18:51] <OndraSter> but didn't blow
[13:18:56] <OndraSter> so I used PSU from old printer :P
[13:19:06] <tzanger> OndraSter: I put a "V-TEC" sticker on my riding lawnmower when I lived on the farm
[13:19:14] <GuShH_> blue clocks, blue sky.... oh yeah let's use them, great!
[13:19:20] <kulminaa1or> tzanger did it help ?
[13:19:23] <GuShH_> Hahaha
[13:19:33] <tzanger> kulminaa1or: it doubled the horsepower. (it was a 10HP mower) :-)
[13:19:35] <OndraSter> it was spinning three times faster
[13:19:38] <OndraSter> wow
[13:19:47] <OndraSter> I would like to get my hands on something 10HP-ish
[13:19:50] <OndraSter> to build small gokart :P
[13:19:50] <GuShH_> should've painted racing stripes too
[13:19:51] <soul-d> not that much blue sky in netherlands though usualy grey :D
[13:20:17] <GuShH_> always wanted to build a go-kart
[13:20:32] <GuShH_> but unless you already have all the parts it ought to be cheaper to just buy a used one
[13:20:53] <jadew> or a car
[13:20:55] <OndraSter> I would like one with electric motor
[13:20:57] <GuShH_> heh
[13:20:59] <OndraSter> but BLDCs are no fun to build
[13:21:00] <kulminaa1or> my colleague built an electric one ...
[13:21:01] <OndraSter> lol jadew
[13:21:10] <soul-d> my old neighbour used to build pro carts in his shed
[13:21:17] <OndraSter> the one my university built (first regular gasoline, now electric) has got 20kW BLDC
[13:21:20] <soul-d> those 160km/h
[13:21:22] <OndraSter> goes upto 93km/h I think
[13:21:25] <OndraSter> wow
[13:21:25] <GuShH_> those rev very high up
[13:21:32] <GuShH_> they're like tiny F1s
[13:21:35] <OndraSter> :)
[13:21:50] <OndraSter> my biggest issue is the fact that I know nearly 0 about mechanics :D
[13:21:54] <OndraSter> just some basic stuff
[13:22:06] <GuShH_> I can weld and all, but I'm not willing to go and buy all the parts just to build that
[13:22:26] * GuShH_ has to finish painting his house, for example...
[13:22:29] <jadew> wait.. a go cart that reaches 160km/h?
[13:22:32] <jadew> that's insane
[13:22:52] <GuShH_> even 50KM/h feels a lot faster on a go-kart though
[13:22:57] <GuShH_> or a tiny bike for that matter
[13:22:58] <tzanger> bldcs can be DAMN fun
[13:23:01] <jadew> yeah, deffinitely dangerous
[13:23:06] <GuShH_> love it
[13:23:08] <tzanger> although I'd use an acim since I know them
[13:23:17] <GuShH_> jadew: I have a QR50 from when I was a kid, I can still ride it!
[13:23:38] <GuShH_> feels like you're doing 100 but you are only going at 30 average.
[13:23:47] <OndraSter> tzanger, ac induction motor?
[13:23:49] <jadew> heh
[13:23:56] <tzanger> yeah
[13:23:56] <GuShH_> grants you the dork of the block award also.
[13:24:11] <soul-d> could be bit slower but thats waht i remmber from it those carts where used in races so not the type used for recreational use
[13:24:15] <OndraSter> well, if it works with wannabe-sine from batteries..
[13:24:17] <Casper> we need a go kart with a transmission!
[13:24:18] <jadew> I'm sure you get a lot of chicks if you're riding that
[13:24:22] <OndraSter> Casper, hehe
[13:24:52] <OndraSter> submit your gokart to "pimp my ride"
[13:26:29] <GuShH_> Casper: pro ones have transmission
[13:26:50] <GuShH_> they're not direct drive through a centrifugal clutch like the ones for kids
[13:26:52] <OndraSter> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zLwHwqx7gy4/S-wOATaUxOI/AAAAAAAAFaQ/w14V4XjAwAU/catgifpage71.gif
[13:26:55] <GuShH_> they have proper mechanics.
[13:27:20] <GuShH_> which involves a clutch.
[13:28:24] <GuShH_> OndraSter: I wonder how less efficient the unit becomes when it has to carry a full grown cat around?
[13:28:24] <Casper> you just need to send it to those who made the smart diablo :D
[13:28:45] <jadew> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bERjkSTYOdU
[13:28:46] <Casper> that guy will make that go kart.... too fast :D
[13:30:33] <OndraSter> 70kW...
[13:30:39] <OndraSter> the one from our school does 20kW
[13:30:39] * GuShH_ has never built anything useful out of steel, he only seems to repair broken stuff instead ... with exception to tools
[13:30:45] <OndraSter> circuitry is done for 90kW
[13:31:26] <RikusW> bldc ?
[13:31:35] <OndraSter> yes
[13:31:59] <OndraSter> the engine is small :)
[13:32:01] <OndraSter> but powerful
[13:32:04] <OndraSter> ridiculously powerful
[13:32:04] <RikusW> what is a bldc ?
[13:32:11] <GuShH_> brushless
[13:32:12] <OndraSter> brushless dc
[13:32:13] <GuShH_> dc motor
[13:32:15] <kulminaator> must be careful with that power ...
[13:32:17] <RikusW> ah
[13:32:17] <GuShH_> RikusW: hard to drive.
[13:32:27] <GuShH_> well in theory easy, but in practice not so easy to do it right
[13:32:50] <GuShH_> since you have to deal with phases, generating the modified sines or actual sinewaves, etc.
[13:33:00] <GuShH_> and all of that at high power.
[13:33:03] * RikusW builds a gokart using a pc psu fan :-D :-P
[13:33:07] <GuShH_> lol
[13:33:23] <OndraSter> i have got here one 12k that does 5k rpm
[13:33:29] <OndraSter> it hovers almost :)
[13:33:34] <GuShH_> -_-
[13:33:35] <OndraSter> 12cm*
[13:33:49] <RikusW> how many watts ?
[13:33:54] <GuShH_> yeah I had a panaflo server fan that would almost hover on 24v
[13:33:56] <OndraSter> no idea
[13:34:00] <GuShH_> way too loud.
[13:34:04] <OndraSter> server fans!
[13:34:14] <GuShH_> yeah, faster rpm... higher consumption
[13:34:18] <Casper> time to go buy some wood work stuff... like 2 router bits (that I hope a press drill will spin them fast enought to be able to do the tiny job I need)
[13:34:25] <GuShH_> they're designed to push massive amounts of air, they're not restricted due to noise
[13:34:27] <Casper> then some wood dowel and stuff...
[13:34:35] <Casper> and silicon... and hope it will work
[13:34:39] * GuShH_ wants a router
[13:34:55] <GuShH_> with a router table of course.
[13:35:02] <RikusW> I got one such fan, probably 15cm and 220Vac
[13:35:05] <Casper> GuShH_: get a dlink one? :D
[13:35:09] <GuShH_> NO
[13:35:11] <RikusW> pressed pewter or something
[13:35:14] <GuShH_> I mean a wood router.
[13:35:20] <Casper> be precise! :D
[13:35:22] <GuShH_> Casper: I hate dlink with a passion
[13:35:30] <RikusW> I think that can hurt a finger that comes too close...
[13:35:51] <GuShH_> RikusW: I know the panaflo one does hurt.
[13:35:56] <jadew> GuShH_, some of their stuff are pretty good
[13:35:58] <GuShH_> and that's why you musn't play with fans
[13:36:01] <Casper> GuShH_: same, I love tplink
[13:36:03] <kulminaator> rikusw, given that you have a gearbox with the correct gearing and necessary efficiency it could make your cart move ...
[13:36:08] <GuShH_> Casper: for the price you can't beat it
[13:36:11] <jadew> yeah, tplink here as well
[13:36:15] <kulminaator> just don't bet on the acceleration or top speed ...
[13:36:16] <jadew> but
[13:36:34] <RikusW> kulminaator: more like crawling uphill ;)
[13:36:42] <kulminaator> not even that fast
[13:36:47] <GuShH_> I moved all to tplink... it wasn't expensive, never had a problem... other than right now on the router sometimes it won't forward the port anymore, I might have to upgrade the firmware
[13:37:04] <jadew> openwrt?
[13:37:07] <RikusW> has this become the Automotive Vehicle Research channel ?
[13:37:09] <GuShH_> I'm only forwarding 10 ports or so
[13:37:46] <GuShH_> testing out a game client/server I'm working on and I need to host on a separate box, same network but with access to the outside, so I'm forwarding a virtual port.
[13:37:48] <tzanger> GuShH_: I used a 2" fan that did about 65krpm and 85dB (aircraft cooling)... it was not fun to be around
[13:38:02] <GuShH_> tzanger: similar to vacuum motors
[13:38:03] <Casper> GuShH_: openwrt on them work very well too
[13:38:13] <RikusW> or the Automatic Virtual Routing channel ? ;)
[13:38:16] <GuShH_> turn them on and they'll start rolling toward you with hatred.
[13:38:36] <GuShH_> Casper: I need to see if it's supported on this model
[13:38:38] <GuShH_> it's a bit old by now
[13:38:43] <GuShH_> I think it is.
[13:38:51] <GuShH_> hard to brick it I imagine so I should try it out
[13:38:57] <Casper> my tl-wr2543 is supported
[13:39:01] <Casper> actually
[13:39:06] <GuShH_> TL-WR841N
[13:39:07] <Casper> they are relativelly easy to debrick
[13:39:12] <Casper> all you need is a 3.3v serial port
[13:39:13] <GuShH_> yes
[13:39:24] <Casper> I debricked mine
[13:39:34] <jadew> I would think debricking would be easy for the people in this channel
[13:39:37] <GuShH_> I wanted to put tomato on it
[13:39:40] <GuShH_> but I don't think it'll budge.
[13:39:53] <GuShH_> jadew: it is
[13:39:57] <Casper> the programmers for openwrt messed up
[13:40:05] <Casper> they passed the wrong kernel argument
[13:40:15] <GuShH_> but I'm not a fan of openwrt myself
[13:40:23] <GuShH_> yes TL-WR841N is supported.
[13:40:37] <GuShH_> I like the simplicity of Tomato, not sure if anyone here tried it
[13:40:45] <jadew> I haven't
[13:40:49] <GuShH_> I dislike the fact that it has no knowledge of users by default
[13:41:08] <GuShH_> but they claim it's a security feature so no hidden accounts can be added -not easily-
[13:41:22] <Casper> but suggestion: if you use the trunk version, make a backup of the full packages... they are daily updated, so it can cause issues when you want to install a package later on
[13:41:24] <jadew> GuShH_, it knows about root :D
[13:41:41] <GuShH_> -_-
[13:41:54] <Casper> bbl
[13:42:31] <soul-d> my wrt went down one to many times took it by it's wifi slammed it a bit to hard :P
[13:42:49] <GuShH_> lol
[13:42:50] <soul-d> did get some desolder practice :)
[13:42:59] <GuShH_> should've done that with my dlink shit
[13:43:11] <jadew> I gave my dlink away
[13:43:17] <jadew> my g/f made good use of it
[13:43:21] <GuShH_> I even recapped one of the dlink routers and it kept resetting itself
[13:43:25] <GuShH_> that just really pissed me off
[13:43:28] <soul-d> ex gf ?
[13:43:32] <soul-d> :P
[13:43:34] <jadew> future wife to be :)
[13:43:45] <GuShH_> you must not like her very much
[13:43:52] <GuShH_> dlink...
[13:43:57] <jadew> hehe
[13:44:06] <jadew> I think she gave up on it too
[13:44:11] <GuShH_> in my case dlink never worked properly, I always had issues. it wasn't just a whine.
[13:44:11] <soul-d> maybe he did so she would keep asking for help he has excuse to come over
[13:44:22] <GuShH_> I wasn't whining about this feature or that
[13:44:25] <GuShH_> it just never worked properly.
[13:44:48] <GuShH_> and it wasn't a whim either.
[13:44:54] <GuShH_> I never change stuff unless I absolutely have to
[13:44:59] <jadew> soul-d, wish I thought about that in highschool
[13:45:05] * GuShH_ must be a bit jewish deep down
[13:45:11] <jadew> could be a great way to bang chicks
[13:45:19] <GuShH_> lol
[13:45:19] <jadew> "hey, I have this router, do you need it?"
[13:45:53] <GuShH_> that would be awesome for xkcd
[13:48:17] <GuShH_> sadly he refuses to hear other people's ideas
[13:48:39] <soul-d> :)
[14:17:24] <_abc_> So, finally, there is NO way to get that osccal value from atmega8a into a place where it can be accessed by gcc code, other than via programmer readout, and placing it in flash or eeprom, right?
[14:19:17] <OndraSter_> let's see
[14:19:51] <OndraSter_> _abc_, maybe loading the OSCCAL register? :P
[14:20:03] <OndraSter_> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zLwHwqx7gy4/S-wOATaUxOI/AAAAAAAAFaQ/w14V4XjAwAU/catgifpage71.gif
[14:20:04] <OndraSter_> wrong
[14:20:08] <OndraSter_> During Reset, the 1MHz calibration value which is located
[14:20:08] <OndraSter_> in the signature row High byte (address 0x00) is automatically loaded into the OSCCAL Register.
[14:20:08] <OndraSter_> this
[14:20:32] <_abc_> I need the one for 8MHz
[14:21:02] <_abc_> I will fabricate some piece of script which will read the values using the programmer and generate a flash hex file to be burned by the same programmer. Groan.
[14:21:23] <_abc_> LPM cannot access the signature row properly on atmega8a
[14:21:31] <OndraSter_> that sucks
