#avr | Logs for 2013-01-12

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[00:14:37] <Casper> creep: you want to simplify your?
[00:14:45] <Casper> I got tons of problem to find a complex one
[00:15:59] <Casper> creep: you would be surprised to see how hard it was to find an ultrasonic humidifier with humidistat!
[00:40:03] <creep> Casper<< i did simplify it :)
[00:40:22] <creep> used a cutter to remove the microcontroller, then hacked it to work without
[00:40:56] <creep> it was not doing anything but turn on a transistor
[00:41:11] <creep> ( if on and if waterlevel ok )
[01:04:36] <creep> haha what is your opinon about this hardware? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1F5Gg4bG3o&feature=endscreen planar speaker
[01:37:39] <inflex> Good lordy it's just so stupidly hot here... thank god for electricity
[03:47:13] <amee2woof> creep: why would a TVS be better for that. and how did you find that line of mine anyway?? o.O
[03:47:30] * amee2woof idly licks GuShH's nose :3
[03:48:15] * RikusW wonders how clean GuShH's nose is :-P
[03:49:16] <RikusW> its probably clean now :-D
[03:49:52] * amee2woof idly wags tail ^_^
[03:52:12] <OndraSter_> <sabesto> avr parrot?
[03:52:12] <OndraSter_> <sabesto> this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ETWslyuKCU
[03:52:12] <OndraSter_> yes
[03:52:17] <OndraSter_> (quite a long reply lol
[04:04:57] <RikusW> the RS catalog is crap, it eat >500MB of ram, about all I have :S
[04:05:18] <RikusW> actually more like 900MB
[04:05:32] <RikusW> wtf were they thinking..!
[04:05:38] <OndraSter_> lol
[04:05:39] <OndraSter_> flash?
[04:05:40] <RikusW> and its GUI is useless
[04:05:44] <RikusW> yep
[04:05:48] <OndraSter_> wow
[04:06:10] <RikusW> I though I would get nice search functionality, but its worse than the website
[04:06:30] <OndraSter_> are you still on 56k?
[04:06:41] <RikusW> the resolution is very low too :(
[04:06:47] <RikusW> 115200bps actually
[04:06:52] <OndraSter_> nice
[04:06:58] <RikusW> their site is bulky too...
[04:07:12] <OndraSter_> are you using serial modem? :P
[04:07:21] * RikusW proposes txt.rs-online.com instead of www
[04:07:22] <RikusW> yes
[04:07:25] <RikusW> GPRS
[04:07:28] <OndraSter_> I see
[04:07:55] <RikusW> actually all websites should have txt.name as well as www.name imo
[04:08:04] <OndraSter_> aka text version?
[04:08:09] <RikusW> yep
[04:08:26] <RikusW> they should have a visible text to total size rating
[04:08:40] <RikusW> most site are like a few %
[04:08:44] <OndraSter_> well
[04:08:50] <OndraSter_> not everybody has got 115k :)
[04:08:58] <OndraSter_> somebody has got 100M line... at home...
[04:09:08] <RikusW> txt site will still be faster
[04:09:12] <OndraSter_> sure
[04:09:12] <RikusW> even on a fast line
[04:09:23] <OndraSter_> but nobody will bother with it if they can get it all immediatily anyway
[04:09:32] <RikusW> and even you sometimes have a slow connection...
[04:09:44] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:09:51] <OndraSter_> when I am downloading 1MB/s in the next window :D
[04:09:58] <RikusW> well, most sites are so cluttered, its difficult to find what you are looking for :S
[04:10:05] <OndraSter_> or when my internet drops and I connect through phone with depleted FUP
[04:10:24] <RikusW> s/most/many
[04:10:53] <RikusW> its all nice and slow graphics, but very little usefull info :(
[04:11:18] * RikusW considers using gopher:// :-P
[04:11:21] <creep> amee2woof<< google ;> and a TVS is a zeener diode on steroids, it protects equipment from very high pulse power surges
[04:11:49] <RikusW> does gopher still exist ?
[04:12:17] * OndraSter_ has never heard of it
[04:12:32] <RikusW> it was before http://
[04:12:45] <OndraSter_> such times existed? :o :o
[04:12:56] <OndraSter_> I thought that http:// was older than supposedly jesus!
[04:13:04] <RikusW> it was a text menu based system afaik
[04:13:12] <OndraSter_> that even old egyptians used already web
[04:13:13] <RikusW> heh, no
[04:13:22] <OndraSter_> (feel the sarcasm?)
[04:13:43] <RikusW> swapping back firefox....
[04:13:57] <OndraSter_> Fringe downloaded, the internet shall work again!
[04:14:02] <RikusW> the rs viewer gets everything swapped out.. even pidgin :S
[04:14:13] <RikusW> episode 5x11 ?
[04:14:18] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:14:33] * RikusW watched 5x10 already :)
[04:14:43] <RikusW> and all of the new dexter :)
[04:14:43] <OndraSter_> did you download it on 115k? :D
[04:14:50] <amee2woof> creep: in this application i think the slightly softer clamping action of a regular zener would actually be better
[04:14:55] <RikusW> are you craze ?!! :-P
[04:14:58] <RikusW> y
[04:15:11] <OndraSter_> I have seen all the Dexter too
[04:15:15] <OndraSter_> waiting for the last series
[04:15:32] <amee2woof> creep: but independent of a specific application, i was more wondering about if and how well an active idle load like that would work in general
[04:15:34] <RikusW> me too, will be another year...
[04:16:03] <amee2woof> and where the fuck do you find a windows 7 download link that works :/
[04:16:12] <RikusW> since watching all of SG I don't have any other series really worth following
[04:16:32] <RikusW> though my brother did get 170GB of modern marvels, like 14 seasons
[04:16:46] <RikusW> farily nice
[04:17:03] <amee2woof> what kind of stuff do you usually watch?
[04:17:19] <OndraSter_> amee2woof, torrent + check sha1 against technet
[04:17:54] <RikusW> dexter fringe SG prisonbreak
[04:18:05] <RikusW> just NO sitcoms, can't stand it
[04:18:12] <OndraSter_> X-Files. You forgot X-Files!
[04:18:16] <amee2woof> i don't like torrents.... slow as fuck and rapes my poor upload speed. plus i'd rather not reupload it to keep a low profile
[04:18:18] <OndraSter_> no sitcoms? :(
[04:18:22] <OndraSter_> Family Guy, American Dad...
[04:18:27] <RikusW> I'll pass on X-Files...
[04:18:43] <OndraSter_> amee2woof, zero upload usually for me. Slow download? It maxes my connection
[04:18:55] <OndraSter_> zero upload on public torrents
[04:19:05] <RikusW> misfits was just a plain weird series...
[04:19:19] <OndraSter_> on private torrent I upload a lot :D
[04:19:23] <RikusW> OndraSter_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_(protocol)
[04:19:50] <amee2woof> yeah i don't know how people get that. so many torrents are dead because not all parts are available in the swarm anymore, or slow as fuck
[04:20:15] <OndraSter_> I use private torrent for TV shows
[04:20:19] <OndraSter_> tvtorrents.com
[04:20:39] <OndraSter_> it works on credit so you need to upload
[04:20:40] <amee2woof> i use hoster links for that. but TV shows rarely get deleted
[04:21:00] <OndraSter_> this is much easier for me
[04:21:04] <amee2woof> if it was on TV noone usually gives a fuck for having it deleted anymore
[04:21:05] <OndraSter_> RSS shoved into uTorrent
[04:22:04] <amee2woof> just that i need a windows system for a few days, and the software we need to use isn't compatible with XP anymore. so i need to get something newer working
[04:22:50] <amee2woof> and i don't really feel like blowing a few hundred quid for... nothing. because after that chances are i'll never look at it again for years to come
[04:22:58] <OndraSter_> eh
[04:23:34] <RikusW> I do have an untested win7 iso
[04:23:35] <OndraSter_> I can't imagine my life without windows
[04:23:42] <RikusW> but only a 115k line ...
[04:23:43] <OndraSter_> RikusW, send it by post :)
[04:23:45] <amee2woof> i haven't booted my windows XP HDD in almost two years now. and when i did last night i spent over four hours installing 1.2GB of updates
[04:24:14] <RikusW> disable updates ?
[04:25:29] <OndraSter_> yesterday I went to a company to setup new laptop
[04:25:36] <OndraSter_> it needed to be in english since it was for a french person
[04:25:42] <OndraSter_> so I grabbed it
[04:25:45] <amee2woof> and i still get an error message that says "unable to find version of the runtime for your application"
[04:25:47] <OndraSter_> first boot - no language selection :(
[04:26:10] <OndraSter_> so I went for recovery thinking it would let me pick the language - nope, did not happen, still czech only
[04:26:17] <amee2woof> the internet says it may or may not be wrong dot net framework version, but i have dot net 4.0 installed
[04:27:03] <amee2woof> when i try installing 4.5 i get a message that says i need to update "windows modules installer service" but i can't find out where to get that update from. the normal windows updates didn't help as it seems
[04:27:55] <amee2woof> RikusW: you still know where you got that iso from?
[04:28:26] <RikusW> no idea
[04:28:34] <RikusW> I didn't download it myself
[04:28:50] <RikusW> never installed it either
[04:29:02] <RikusW> so I don't know if it even works
[04:29:22] <RikusW> amee2woof: have you tried isohunt.com ?
[04:30:18] <amee2woof> i know the site, isn't that only torrents?
[04:30:33] <amee2woof> my usual place to get stuff is filestube
[04:31:49] <RikusW> its for torrents yes
[04:35:05] <OndraSter_> so I grabbed recovery DVD, which was just Windows WITH $OEM$ folder that did not contain anything useful other than Dell's wallpaper
[04:35:10] <OndraSter_> they didn't even integrate drivers!
[04:35:14] <OndraSter_> there was separate Drivers DVD... :(
[04:35:25] <OndraSter_> so I installed ethernet driver and let it get the rest from WU
[04:35:47] <OndraSter_> bloody 2 hours for me to SWITCH WINDOWS TO ENGLISH FROM CZECH BECAUSE THIS WAS THE FIRST LAPTOP OEM WINDOWS EVER WHICH DID NOT OFFER LANGUAGE ON THE FIRST BOOT
[04:35:52] <RikusW> now this is nice and fast :) http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?gopher://gopher.floodgap.com:70/1/world/last-hit
[04:36:40] <OndraSter_> then 3 more hours before I set all of their software
[04:36:55] <OndraSter_> because this was the first 64bit laptop they had there so I was dealing with bazilion of issues :(
[04:37:47] <OndraSter_> be it 64bit ODBC driver not showing for 32bit apps obviously (had to search the internet to find that there is separate 32bit ODBC settings option)
[04:38:09] <OndraSter_> be it printer drivers for which I had to DL all the drivers since we had only 32bit ones ready
[04:38:34] <RikusW> ugh
[04:41:05] <OndraSter_> but it seemed that in the end everything worked fine
[04:41:15] <OndraSter_> logged into domain with his account and everything was there
[04:41:22] <OndraSter_> (roaming profiles ftw)
[04:42:48] <RikusW> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/overbiteff/
[04:47:16] <RikusW> gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/0/v2/help/search
[04:47:26] * RikusW can now browse that :)
[04:48:41] <creep> amee2woof<< a power supply does not need a minimum load current to operate anyway
[04:48:57] <OndraSter_> they do
[04:49:01] <amee2woof> some do
[04:49:01] <creep> it depends on the design
[04:49:06] <amee2woof> depends on the power supply
[04:49:18] <OndraSter_> some have it built-in :D
[04:49:31] <creep> cheap chinese power supply may need one, but i don't think they should require more than that 12V fan in it
[04:50:59] <creep> btw i hacked some AT power supplies, removed the 5V part and sensed only the 12V, that way it was able to regulate "normally" no-load full load difference was minimal
[04:53:40] <creep> it was impressive how much abuse it was able to handle, the fan died in it, and kept running at 5-10A continuous current for days until the fan's plastic parts and magnet fell apart from the heat
[04:54:06] <OndraSter_> haha
[04:54:09] <OndraSter_> that is "creepy"
[04:54:24] <creep> yeah i should have not left it on at heavy load without fan
[04:55:34] <Steffanx> some people have to learn things the hard way :P
[04:56:14] <creep> well the fan started to make weird noise in it, so i put some metal screw in it to hold the blades, so it remained silent
[04:56:25] <OndraSter_> LOL
[04:56:29] <OndraSter_> fixed it the wrong way.
[04:56:45] <creep> it was fine at light load
[04:56:48] <creep> :)
[04:56:51] <OndraSter_> still
[04:56:52] <OndraSter_> fixed it the wrong way.
[04:57:23] <creep> best power supply that does not have any fans
[04:57:38] <OndraSter_> I like using PSUs from laptops
[04:57:43] <OndraSter_> docking stations are usually 130W
[04:57:49] <OndraSter_> 19V-ish
[04:58:00] <OndraSter_> and then use buck SMPS to transform it into whatever you need
[04:58:10] <OndraSter_> I should build some heavy duty SMPS
[04:58:13] <creep> i could make a power supply but if i can use some junk already made then i will
[04:58:27] <OndraSter_> of course
[04:58:33] <OndraSter_> I have got here few AT and ATX PSUs
[04:58:38] <OndraSter_> the ATX ones are dead or nearly dead
[04:58:42] <OndraSter_> the AT ones... no idea
[04:58:46] <creep> haha
[04:58:46] <OndraSter_> and I am not sure I want to test it :)
[04:58:52] <creep> how cn be a power supply nearly dead?
[04:59:03] <creep> replace the capacitors
[04:59:04] <OndraSter_> making awful noises which are not coming from fan :D
[04:59:14] <OndraSter_> probably from inductors
[04:59:21] <OndraSter_> but... awful noises
[04:59:32] <creep> it oculd be the fan is dieing
[04:59:40] <OndraSter_> I said "not coming from fan"
[04:59:42] <creep> or just the output capacitors
[04:59:48] <OndraSter_> it is some cheapo
[04:59:51] <OndraSter_> I don't care for those
[04:59:55] <OndraSter_> I grab wires from them ;)
[05:00:06] <OndraSter_> afterall the wires are rated 5 - 10A at least :)
[05:00:15] <creep> okey, but some old power supplies are better than most selled in shops now
[05:00:27] <OndraSter_> yes, that is why I buy very often 350W Fortrons :P
[05:00:29] <OndraSter_> the old ones
[05:00:31] <OndraSter_> $10 delivered
[05:00:35] <creep> large transformers, nice filters
[05:00:40] <OndraSter_> those are heavy duty
[05:00:46] <OndraSter_> I found out that the heavier the PSU, the better :P
[05:00:47] <OndraSter_> usually
[05:00:59] <creep> i pretty much liked the seventeam stuff
[05:01:11] <creep> made 13.8V 10A charger from it
[05:01:58] <OndraSter_> regular PSUs are barely 1kg
[05:02:00] <OndraSter_> cheap PSUs
[05:02:09] <OndraSter_> this fortron is 2.5kg-ish
[05:02:10] <RikusW> the heavier car radios aren't always better, I once removed a 15x5x1cm chunk or iron from one :-P
[05:02:13] <OndraSter_> :D
[05:02:25] <OndraSter_> the Enermax in my PC is 3kg-ish
[05:02:32] <creep> bricks? lead? ;>>
[05:02:36] <creep> maybe uranium?
[05:02:47] <RikusW> dummy load :-D
[05:03:18] <creep> they'll find a way to get rid of radioactive waste ( in your multimedia equipments for example )
[05:03:56] <OndraSter_> haha
[05:04:36] <creep> btw my 15 year old computer case is about 10x heavier than a new one, and stronger
[05:04:43] <OndraSter_> :
[05:04:44] <OndraSter_> :)
[05:04:53] <OndraSter_> my chassis empty weighs 15kg
[05:04:56] <specing> one 1*1*0.5 cm pellet of uranium is enaugh to power your house for well over a year
[05:05:30] <creep> specing<< just needs some cooling water that runs a turbine right ?
[05:05:53] <specing> creep: not necesseraly
[05:06:05] <OndraSter_> :)
[05:06:10] <specing> creep: Have you seen military portable uranium batteries?
[05:06:19] <OndraSter_> nope
[05:06:24] <OndraSter_> sounds awesome
[05:06:38] <creep> necessarily
[05:06:52] <creep> specing<< hopefully not
[05:09:22] <creep> i like the lithium titanate energy cell stuff that is made for megawatt power levels
[05:10:09] <creep> heavier than a radioactive stuff probably, but not radioactive
[05:11:37] <creep> magnetostriction generates a large amount of heat due to eddy current right?
[05:12:31] <creep> probably this is why they use PZT instead of a steel rod in ultrasonic cleaning
[07:20:38] <OndraSter_> http://www.istartedsomething.com/20130112/irl-shooter-patient-0-is-a-satisfying-teaser-for-the-future-of-real-life-shooter-games/
[07:37:27] <Horologium> yawn
[10:38:41] <OndraSter_> Atmel! Y U upload all the flash space, instead of just the relevant used space on the flash? :(
[13:25:04] <TheJH> on an atmega2560, when a digital I/O pin is configured as output and low, it shouldn't be significantly over 0V unless it has a lot of current to sink, right?
[13:44:44] <Tom_itx> sounds about right
[14:12:19] <RikusW> OndraSter_: that old scrap pc I used for a few days took like 5s or more to switch tabs in firefox :-P
[14:25:44] <OndraSter_> heh
[15:26:02] <vsync_> OndraSter_: i feel like
[15:26:17] <vsync_> this alcohol is taking a hold of me!
[15:26:22] <vsync_> what to do
[15:27:40] <Steffanx> again
[15:27:45] <Steffanx> try /quit
[15:27:59] <vsync_> oh no, not you!
[15:29:03] <vsync_> Steffanx: such a killjoy
[15:39:34] <Steffanx> Drunk people.. no needs tham
[15:39:55] <Steffanx> *no one needs them
[15:44:29] <Tom_itx> licker stores do
[16:00:12] * soul-d sets up new enterprise lickerstore ™
[16:03:32] <OndraSter_> liquor*
[16:03:39] <OndraSter_> lickerstore sounds nasty
[16:04:08] <Tom_itx> it is
[16:08:36] <bitd> http://www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition_TCI_PIC12F675.gif - is that a schmitt trigger they are using in the picture, with the BC547, BC557?
[17:08:58] <Richard_Cavell> Does the AVR dragon program chips that are not DIP?
[17:09:20] <Tom_itx> if you use isp
[17:09:27] <Tom_itx> or jtag
[17:11:53] <yunta_> Richard_Cavell: I use dragon to program XMEGA series, with PDI
[17:12:55] <OndraSter_> Richard_Cavell, say what?
[17:13:06] <OndraSter_> how should it know if it is in DIP package or TQFP?
[17:13:07] <OndraSter_> :P
[17:13:14] <OndraSter_> why should it matter in the first place?
[17:13:26] <OndraSter_> the only letdown of Dragon for me is the lack of TPI (attiny 4/5/9/10) :(
[17:13:30] <OndraSter_> Dragonborn!
[17:13:50] <Tom_itx> mine does that though
[17:14:07] <OndraSter_> your AVRISP mkII, yes :)
[17:14:08] <OndraSter_> we know
[17:14:14] <OndraSter_> ^_^
[17:44:36] <Richard_Cavell> OndraSter_: I mean out of system programming
[17:44:39] <Richard_Cavell> as in placing the chip on the board
[17:45:31] <OndraSter_> huh?
[17:46:25] <Tom_itx> not without a carrier for it
[17:46:58] <OndraSter_> of course you somehow have to connect to it
[17:47:02] <OndraSter_> it does not work by induction.. yet!
[17:47:06] <OndraSter_> (patent pending)
[17:47:10] <OndraSter_> via NFC!
[17:47:14] <OndraSter_> hmm what a great idea I just had
[17:47:21] * OndraSter_ runs to the patent office
[17:49:14] * specing slaps OndraSter_
[17:50:22] <OndraSter_> whaaaat
[18:18:27] <abcminiuser> All this XML is making me cross-eyed
[18:18:45] * abcminiuser is stuck writing XSLT transforms and XML module descriptions
[18:20:38] <inflex> lo there abcminiuser
[18:20:50] <abcminiuser> Heyo
[18:27:30] <inflex> been a while, how's life on your side of the planet
[18:30:27] <jadew> abcminiuser, hey, I just finished building a programmer based on you avrispmkII clone, awesome job
[18:31:00] <abcminiuser> jadew, I've got an enhancement idea sent to me for it - save the selected speed into EEPROM
[18:31:01] <jadew> and I like your coding style as well - that's something I don't say very often
[18:31:21] <jadew> abcminiuser, here's another one
[18:31:21] <abcminiuser> inflex, not bad, I'm back alone in Trondheim and it's bloody cold ;)
[18:31:27] <jadew> you could add another aux line
[18:31:32] <jadew> for enabling and disabling of the buffer
[18:31:46] <abcminiuser> Thanks jadew! I've been working with ASF's crazy coding style for so long now I've started to doubt my own...
[18:31:47] <jadew> I added that in my version in order to keep the reset line from getting pulled low by shitty buffers
[18:31:58] <jadew> since the internal pull up of the reset line (on the target) is usually very weak
[18:31:59] <abcminiuser> Hrm, that's not a bad idea...
[18:32:48] <jadew> with the first try of the programmer I couldn't program and test stuff at the same time, because the buffer would remain engaged
[18:35:09] <abcminiuser> So you want a line that's set high/low when the programmer is trying to establish contact?
[18:35:36] <jadew> yeah, it should enabled in ISPProtocol_EnterISPMode and XPROGProtocol_EnterXPROGMode
[18:35:45] <jadew> and disabled in the Leave ones
[18:36:06] <abcminiuser> Okies, I can do that
[18:36:33] <abcminiuser> Whack it in http://lufa-lib.org/tracker so I don't forget
[18:36:51] <jadew> sure
[18:36:56] <jadew> and since you're here
[18:37:05] <jadew> is there any chance to use it with avrdude under windows?
[18:37:25] <abcminiuser> Yup, you can either a) compile it into AVRDUDE compatibility mode
[18:37:33] <jadew> tried that, didn't work
[18:37:39] <abcminiuser> Really? Hrm
[18:37:48] <abcminiuser> What's the avrdude log?
[18:38:02] <jadew> let me upload that firmware and try it out
[18:40:24] <OndraSter_> hey there abcminiuser
[18:40:27] <jadew> lol, it works now
[18:40:35] <abcminiuser> jadew, magic!
[18:40:38] <abcminiuser> Hi OndraSter_
[18:40:47] <abcminiuser> What's up?
[18:41:08] <OndraSter_> I have started writing the bootloader
[18:41:12] <OndraSter_> the USB stack approximately works
[18:41:30] <OndraSter_> it does not enumerate on my LCD screen's hub when I reset the chip via button or power on, but via PDI reset it works (??)
[18:41:38] <OndraSter_> but if I connect it through $2 china hub, it works just fine lol
[18:41:54] <OndraSter_> atmel's USB stack works always surprisingly
[18:41:57] <OndraSter_> all the registers are the same...
[18:42:35] <abcminiuser> Which device?
[18:42:43] <OndraSter_> atxmega a4u series
[18:43:10] <OndraSter_> I am doing multipacket transfers manually, since I want it to be working on a1u and I remember there being some errata about multipackets/autozlp
[18:43:30] <OndraSter_> on laptop it works ALWAYS
[18:43:32] <OndraSter_> on another laptop too
[18:43:41] <OndraSter_> on my PC it is more random :D
[18:44:10] <OndraSter_> usblyzer was useless, I didn't capture anything interesting
[18:44:18] <OndraSter_> I would probably need hardare usb analyzer
[18:44:38] <abcminiuser> Ah now I remember
[18:44:40] <abcminiuser> Hrm
[18:44:59] <abcminiuser> There's only a few things I can remember that's problematic
[18:45:15] <OndraSter_> timing should be just fine - I am doing it in much less cycles than on atmel's code
[18:45:20] <abcminiuser> 1) Alignment of the EP pointer register can be incorrect in most versions of AVR-GCC, so you need to ensure you're aligned
[18:45:27] <OndraSter_> yes, I had that issue
[18:45:32] <OndraSter_> but it wouldn't work at all then
[18:45:51] <abcminiuser> 2) There's something funky about control endpoint interrupts, IIRC there's a flag that's not cleared or set the way the datasheet says
[18:45:57] <OndraSter_> hmm
[18:46:01] <OndraSter_> there was datasheet update
[18:46:04] <OndraSter_> in december
[18:46:09] <abcminiuser> IIRC the datasheet says write a 1 to clear, when it's zero to clear - might have been fixed in the docs
[18:46:10] <OndraSter_> about whether the bits are cleared by 1 or 0
[18:46:19] <OndraSter_> yes, there is one or more changes about that
[18:47:20] <OndraSter_> I found something interesting right now -- on PC it:
[18:47:49] <OndraSter_> a) reset, device descriptor, reset, set address, device descriptor, configuration descriptor, RESET! and again. And then it does set configuration, and CDC works fine
[18:47:59] <OndraSter_> on laptop it does not the reset in the middle of the enumeration
[18:48:20] <OndraSter_> and fully enumerates on the 1st try
[18:48:34] <OndraSter_> PC: W7 x64, laptop #1: W8 x64, laptop #2: W7 x32
[18:50:11] <OndraSter_> oh well, that is why it will be updatable :)
[18:50:40] <OndraSter_> the USB + CDC stacks are in usable form and with whole 510B big interrupt table around 3kB big or so
[18:53:40] <abcminiuser> Sounds like there might be a bug in your config descriptors
[18:53:51] <OndraSter_> yes
[18:53:59] <OndraSter_> but I checked them with atmel's code - 1:1 same
[18:54:00] <OndraSter_> BUT!
[18:54:06] <OndraSter_> usblyzer does not show them for my code recently
[18:54:10] <OndraSter_> which makes no sense to me :o
[18:54:33] <OndraSter_> only the device descriptor
[18:54:39] <OndraSter_> yes, there IS something wrong
[18:54:43] <OndraSter_> but it is all right :(
[18:54:47] <OndraSter_> I completely rewrote the code already once
[18:59:41] <jadew> abcminiuser, there seems to be an issue in avrdude compatibility mode
[19:00:13] <jadew> each time I connect to the device (after the operation is finished) the device seems to disconnect and reconnect (from USB)
[19:00:20] <OndraSter_> Dragon?
[19:00:34] <jadew> avrispmkII, lufa based clone
[19:00:39] <OndraSter_> ah
[19:00:54] <abcminiuser> jadew, with latest revision firmware?
[19:03:14] <jadew> abcminiuser, yeah
[19:03:24] <abcminiuser> Dang, shove it in the tracker
[19:03:38] <jadew> did it happen before?
[19:04:23] <jadew> I probed the reset line and the vcc line, nothing weird happens
[19:05:27] <jadew> I will, in a second, let me test something else first
[19:07:15] <abcminiuser> Not that I'm aware of
[19:07:20] <jadew> right, so another issue is that with out patching avrdude, avrdude will get stuck
[19:07:32] <abcminiuser> What avrdude patch?
[19:07:48] <jadew> RikusW told me about it
[19:08:03] <jadew> let me find the avrdude sources in the git and I'll link you to the exact line
[19:08:43] <jadew> https://github.com/wertarbyte/avrdude/blob/master/avrdude/usb_libusb.c#L448
[19:08:57] <jadew> the patch is simply returning 0 from that function
[19:09:12] <jadew> I didn't look into it much, I was happy with the fact that it worked
[19:09:37] <jadew> this is the output when you're not returning 0 from that function: (wait a bit for pastebin)
[19:10:52] <jadew> http://pastebin.com/KhCQx0Z5
[19:11:10] <jadew> what happens is that it gets stuck for like... 30 seconds+ after it displays this line: avrdude: usbdev_open(): using read endpoint 0x83
[19:11:23] <abcminiuser> Ah right, that patch
[19:11:31] <jadew> I never had the patience to wait more, but it looks that after issuing that time out it works
[19:11:39] <abcminiuser> That should only be used if you aren't using the compatibility mode
[19:11:51] <abcminiuser> If you're using compatibility mode, use stock avrdude
[19:12:09] <jadew> but with stock avrdude it gets stuck in there
[19:13:05] <abcminiuser> That would mean you're not in the right compatibility mode
[19:13:17] <abcminiuser> If you are in LIBUSB compat mode it will work with stock
[19:13:29] <abcminiuser> If you are in Jungo compat mode on Windows, it will get stuck
[19:13:59] <jadew> #define LIBUSB_DRIVER_COMPAT
[19:14:09] <jadew> that's the only option I have in there, it's enabled
[19:14:16] <jadew> and I have the libusb drivers installed
[19:15:44] <jadew> are there any other settings that I should be aware of, besides the ones in AppConfig.h?
[19:17:20] <abcminiuser> No those are the interesting ones you should use
[19:18:11] <jadew> in that case, I think it already is in libusb compatibility mode, for that matter, even with the jungo drivers, it won't work with atmel studio (with this firmware), however it will with avrdude
[19:18:39] <jadew> apparently both with the unpatched and the patched version, just that the unpatched version will hang for a while before issuing that timeout
[19:21:17] <jadew> as for that timeout, I tried it again, it doesn't take 30 seconds, it takes like 2 minutes
[19:22:15] <abcminiuser> I'm sure I tested it recently without issues, I'll have to re-try it again
[19:23:04] <jadew> if it makes any difference, windows 7 x64
[19:24:05] <gkwhc> Hello, ive been googling a while now and there are sources that say a gate resistor should be used for a mosfet, but others say the gate can be driven directly from a uC..im quite confused. could anyone please shine some light?
[19:24:35] <abcminiuser> Yeah same here
[19:24:41] <jadew> gkwhc, some mosfets will leak a lot of current, some won't
[19:24:54] <abcminiuser> Resistor is safer
[19:24:58] <jadew> gkwhc, it's better with the res
[19:24:59] <jadew> yeah
[19:25:23] <gkwhc> are you talking about gate leakage current?
[19:25:31] <jadew> yeah
[19:25:54] <creep> it will work without resistor
[19:26:55] <creep> though if you have large currents switching at high speed the gate can ring below ground and kill your port
[19:27:56] * GuShH snubs creep
[19:29:24] <gkwhc> hmm
[19:29:51] <gkwhc> na its low current low voltage, and low speed..just switching SD cards and things like that
[19:33:20] <creep> since the gate introduces capacitive impedance you might wantto use a current limiting resistor to lower port peak currents, but you probably use a transistor too, unless you are using logical gate fets and 3.3-5V powered output port
[19:35:26] <creep> btw i like the resistoors to the gate, they are like a jumper, allows something to go under
[19:35:36] <gkwhc> true
[19:35:56] <gkwhc> btw the gate capacitance is only 150pF
[19:36:00] <GuShH> R0 works for that
[19:36:34] <creep> you want to use 0-10k for gate in general
[19:36:55] <gkwhc> ok
[19:37:27] <creep> for power switching, 2-20 ohm are common with 1A peak current
[19:37:31] <gkwhc> correct me if im wrong, but i think it only becomes an issue when the capacitance is the the nanofarads range
[19:38:06] <GuShH> it depends on how fast you want to charge / discharge those pF
[19:38:25] <creep> no, 150pf will haved 100mA peak gate current if you directly replace a 1.5nf large mosfet with this
[19:38:33] <creep> capacitor is capacitor
[19:38:59] <gkwhc> where did you get the 100mA from?
[19:39:36] <creep> just divided by ten ;<
[19:40:09] <creep> but i don't know actual internal gate resistances
[19:40:42] <creep> its not an ideal calacitor, especially for small fets like 2n7002
[19:40:51] <creep> *capacitor
[19:42:35] <gkwhc> hm Rds is about 0.6ohms, but i dont see how this affects the gate resistor
[19:42:36] <creep> so, if you use a larger gate resistor, you slow the mosfet down
[19:42:59] <creep> rds is drain source resistance
[19:43:02] <creep> rds is drain source resistance
[19:43:12] <gkwhc> oops accidentally closed window
[19:44:36] <gkwhc> is there a way to find the peak current that the gate will absorb?
[19:44:50] <tzanger> rds = supemegaultralow
[19:44:56] <creep> ok you have 5V supply, you dont want >20mA to be switched by the port, you just use R=5V/20mA=250 ohm
[19:45:34] <gkwhc> i see
[19:47:26] <creep> 0 ohm will cause a short spike current to be sourced sinked by the port, this is just a capacitor charging, discharging, the other problem could be gate drain miller capacitance that at high Đv/Đt will kill the unprotected driver
[19:47:42] <GuShH> nothing is ever 0 ohms
[19:47:47] <GuShH> enough smoke for today
[19:47:54] <creep> this is why high current drivers use schottky from gate to ground
[19:49:26] <creep> and in case thne ports 'float' during power off, at critical places they used to place a pull-down resistor from the gate to gnd or V+
[19:49:57] <creep> the dc gate current is in the picoamper range btw.
[19:50:21] <OndraSter_> GuShH, stop burning PICs
[19:50:44] <creep> pics ? :)
[19:50:59] <creep> pics can be burned, stop burning avrs
[19:51:28] <GuShH> OndraSter_: lol
[19:53:12] <tzanger> shottky doesn't protect from current spikes due to charging the gate capacitance
[19:53:55] <tzanger> a resistor helps but slows down the gate (generally NOT an issue)
[19:55:03] <tzanger> shottky from gate to ground protects the driver (and possibly gate, although not necessarily a problem) from ringing caused by the LC network created by the connection to gate
[19:55:10] <creep> they probably don't use schottky diodes in india, i use them since 2001
[19:55:34] * tzanger wonders where the india reference came from
[19:55:57] <creep> i wanted to write africa but wrote india
[19:56:08] <tzanger> same question re africa :-)
[19:56:09] <creep> its early in the morning
[19:56:22] <tzanger> creep: asl?
[19:56:58] <creep> 13 F US
[19:57:24] <tzanger> zomg wow me too!!!1!
[19:57:58] <tzanger> early in the morning... you're somewhere in europe woudl be my guess
[19:59:00] <tzanger> balls, it looks like the sealed lead-acid battery I connected is kaput
[19:59:13] <tzanger> it's been charging for ... 24h and is still at 1.8V
[20:07:46] <creep> can you say no to me? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MgGN29OVgSg/UHQnhDG9J4I/AAAAAAAAA28/5NhF6axbgR4/s1600/nice-girl-wallpaper+(1).jpg
[20:15:28] <OndraSter_> creep, I don't think that is you
[20:15:46] <OndraSter_> <tzanger> early in the morning... you're somewhere in europe woudl be my guess
[20:15:48] <OndraSter_> more like china
[20:15:56] <creep> OndraSter_<< i thought you wouldn't :)
[20:15:56] <OndraSter_> it is 0303 in the MEST timezone
[20:16:13] <OndraSter_> creep, I somewhat think that you are a GIRL
[20:16:15] <OndraSter_> not a girl :D
[20:16:18] <OndraSter_> "Guy In Real Life"
[20:16:20] <OndraSter_> or am I wrong?
[20:16:26] <creep> hahah
[20:16:44] <creep> why? girl's can't know science? :(
[20:16:59] <OndraSter_> they can
[20:17:01] <OndraSter_> but you don't seem like one
[20:17:23] <OndraSter_> we have got 14%-ish girls of all the people in our year at uni
[20:17:34] <OndraSter_> except me
[20:17:41] <OndraSter_> I have got 44 girls on my PE class :)
[20:17:59] <OndraSter_> 44 girls + one older (25-ish) woman training :D
[20:18:03] <OndraSter_> and then me.
[20:18:49] <jadew> OndraSter_, do you know of any fuse calculator for xmegas?
[20:20:24] <OndraSter_> fuse calculators? :)
[20:20:27] <OndraSter_> just open atmel studio
[20:20:30] <OndraSter_> and set it there
[20:20:53] <jadew> I didn't find anything related to the clock
[20:21:11] <OndraSter_> ehh
[20:21:14] <OndraSter_> because there is nothing :)
[20:21:17] <OndraSter_> check the datasheet once again
[20:21:21] <jadew> oh
[20:21:38] <OndraSter_> xmega is, clock-wise, same as ARM
[20:21:43] <OndraSter_> you set it in software during runtime
[20:21:49] <OndraSter_> and it always starts on some clock source
[20:21:56] <jadew> interresting
[20:22:03] <OndraSter_> it is very nice feature
[20:22:06] <jadew> yeah
[20:22:07] <jadew> it's great
[20:22:10] <OndraSter_> no more bricked chips due to wrong clock settings
[20:22:17] <OndraSter_> no more HVPP/HVSP!
[20:24:09] <creep> tzanger<< i come with india africa examples because those are known underdeveloped countries
[20:25:53] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underdevelopment#Examples_of_Underdeveloped_Countries_and_Regions
[20:26:47] <jadew> OndraSter_, looks really cool, but it seems everything is very different
[20:27:47] <jadew> I guess I need to start reading from page 1
[20:30:49] <OndraSter_> well
[20:30:53] <OndraSter_> page 1 of what? :P
[20:31:00] <OndraSter_> I suggest reading some basic info
[20:31:03] <jadew> of the datasheet
[20:31:05] <OndraSter_> from appnotes
[20:31:10] <jadew> good idea
[20:31:10] <OndraSter_> and then specific peripherals
[20:31:36] <OndraSter_> the clock system is completely different
[20:31:37] <jadew> I'm sure I'll figure out how to use the peripherals as soon as I figure out what happened to my DDRx PORTx etc
[20:31:38] <OndraSter_> USB too
[20:31:43] <OndraSter_> nothing
[20:31:45] <OndraSter_> they are still there
[20:31:47] <OndraSter_> but expanded :)
[20:32:06] <OndraSter_> PORTA now contains registers like DIR (same), OUT (previous PORTx), IN (PINx)
[20:32:12] <OndraSter_> but also DIRSET, DIRCLR and DIRTGL
[20:32:19] <OndraSter_> so in 1 operation you set/clear/toggle the bits
[20:32:23] <OndraSter_> same for OUT register
[20:32:40] <OndraSter_> then for every pin you can set interrupt level, pullup/pulldown, totem pole, ..
[20:33:12] <OndraSter_> interrupts are reworked too - now you have got 3 levels of importance
[20:33:34] <OndraSter_> I mean
[20:33:39] <OndraSter_> 3 interrupt levels
[20:33:44] <OndraSter_> (lo mi hi)
[20:33:46] * inflex looks at his latest AVR creation... and finds it hard to work on it :(
[20:33:59] <OndraSter_> ADCs are re-done both electrically and logically too
[20:34:09] <OndraSter_> now two inputs can be sampled nearly simultaneously
[20:34:13] <OndraSter_> on one ADC
[20:34:19] <OndraSter_> (they are off just by 1 clock)
[20:34:28] <OndraSter_> then you have DAC
[20:34:29] <jadew> OndraSter_, wish there was a "migrating from atmega to xmega"
[20:34:30] <OndraSter_> and DMA
[20:34:31] <OndraSter_> and ...
[20:34:32] <OndraSter_> heh
[20:34:48] <OndraSter_> CRC module, AES module..
[20:34:57] <OndraSter_> they are serious business
[20:35:07] <jadew> I think I'm gonna enjoy them a lot
[20:35:29] <RifRaf> hi, i cannot seem to light up a led on ports PC4 or PC5, but can on PC6 and PC7, atmega32 with 16mhz xtal, could there be a simple reason?
[20:36:29] <jadew> any additional circuitry?
[20:36:46] <OndraSter_> RifRaf, what chip?
[20:36:48] <OndraSter_> mega32
[20:36:49] <OndraSter_> ok
[20:36:51] <OndraSter_> disable JTAG :)
[20:36:55] <RifRaf> the pins go direct to led and resistor
[20:37:03] <OndraSter_> either in software via JTD bit in MCUCR (?? MCUCSR? check datasheet)
[20:37:05] <OndraSter_> or via fuses
[20:37:08] <RifRaf> ok so a fuse setting OndraSter_
[20:37:14] <OndraSter_> I prefer software solution
[20:37:22] <RifRaf> i have been trying to find the right fuse settings, will try that
[20:38:00] <OndraSter_> weird thing that PC4/5 does not work and 6/7 does, whole upper nibble should be taken by JTAG...
[20:38:31] <RifRaf> OndraSter_ thatnks for ending my grief :)
[20:38:42] <RifRaf> was going nuts
[20:38:47] <OndraSter_> does it work now?
[20:39:10] <RifRaf> yes :), blinking away like it should
[20:39:14] <OndraSter_> nice
[20:39:19] <OndraSter_> I am off to sleep, it is ridiculously late
[20:39:43] <OndraSter_> tomorrow = want to write the self updating part of the bootloader (should be few lines of code... and possibly fix the USB enumeration... well, more like find the issue in the 1st place)
[20:39:49] <OndraSter_> gn
[20:43:36] <jadew> night
[21:12:13] <tzanger> OndraSter_: nah .ro is +7 from me, it'd be (very) early in the morning there
[21:14:08] <tzanger> OndraSter_: what are you doing on AVR to get 1 cycle sampling on AVR?
[21:31:56] <Richard_Cavell> Hi everyone
[21:32:04] <Richard_Cavell> I just read through a Hack a day AVR tutorial
[21:32:06] <Richard_Cavell> good stuff folks
[22:17:58] <jadew> ok... xmegas are awesome
[22:35:44] <Tom_itx> heh
[23:14:41] <tzanger> holy shit, xmegas are cheap
[23:22:07] <tzanger> something tells me I should be using them instead of the at90can
[23:24:23] <jadew> tzanger, yeah, I'm playing with a xmega16d4, it's only like $2
[23:25:01] <jadew> running it right now at 66Mhz and generating pwm with 20 000 steps at 3.3kHz
[23:25:26] <tzanger> at90can128 is $12 in onesie-twosie. similar device, unless I am being stupid, a comparable xmega is $5
[23:25:32] <tzanger> no can controller but I'm not using it anyway
[23:25:50] <jadew> and I'm not entirely sure, but it looks like all the timers are available separately for each port
[23:26:25] <jadew> so if you have 3 timers, you actually have 3 x the number of ports
[23:26:40] <jadew> and you can configure them separately
[23:26:42] <tzanger> right
[23:27:14] <jadew> it's a huge upgrade over what I'm used to on atmegas
[23:28:39] <tzanger> yeah
[23:28:44] <jadew> apparently you can stretch them up to 200Mhz
[23:28:58] <tzanger> and avr-libc works the same? jtag1 will talk to them with avrdude?
[23:29:14] <jadew> I don't think they have jtag (at least not this one)
[23:29:47] <jadew> yeah, only PDI
[23:31:17] <tzanger> hm, I'm not so happy with that
[23:31:23] <jadew> why?