#avr | Logs for 2013-01-09

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[02:55:05] <megal0maniac> 'lo :)
[03:00:22] <megal0maniac> Hi OndraSter
[03:28:27] <Steffanx> Hi megal0maniac (at least someone that says Hi)
[03:29:20] <megal0maniac> Heh. Hi Steffanx :)
[03:29:33] <megal0maniac> I haven't been online in ages
[03:30:03] <Steffanx> busy life in SA?
[03:30:32] <megal0maniac> Got back to SA yesterday, been in Zimbabwe with family. But yes, I suppose so :)
[03:31:37] <megal0maniac> Drove there from Cape Town, which is as South as you can get. 5300km done so far. Final 950km stretch tomorrow to bring us home.
[03:32:08] <Steffanx> No Air planes in SA? :)
[03:33:18] <megal0maniac> There are, but the van was a better idea in this instance - long story. How are the Netherlands? Cold?
[03:33:28] <Steffanx> Rainy
[03:33:43] <Steffanx> Like always
[03:41:46] <creep> h
[03:42:04] <creep> what's up hackers?
[03:48:58] <megal0maniac> 36 degrees C here :/
[03:49:01] <megal0maniac> Hi creep
[03:49:34] <creep> yea
[03:49:37] <megal0maniac> In hvpp, only the reset line gets 12V, right? The rest of the logic is 5V
[03:49:39] <creep> desert?
[03:49:56] <creep> its 24.5C here out... ~10
[03:50:01] <megal0maniac> creep: Nearly. Kimberley, South Africa
[03:50:43] <r00t|home> megal0maniac: yes (on 12V)
[03:51:33] <r00t|home> megal0maniac: also, the current draw is neglegible... the 12V is just used as an extra logic level not conflicting with normal operation
[03:51:33] <megal0maniac> Okay good. Might use a level translator then... Playing with logic analyzer, don't want to kill it ;)
[03:52:14] <r00t|home> why would you hook a logic analyzer into a HV programmer? or are you building one?
[03:52:35] <creep> somebody pro here in analog signal processing?
[03:53:21] <creep> i need to add an exp curve to a symmetric 2.5V +-2.5V signal
[03:53:21] <megal0maniac> r00t|home: Because I just got the logic analyzer and I'm poking around, seeing how everything works. No real aim, just begginers curiousity :)
[03:56:03] <creep> i know the simplest would be to use a microcontroller and do it in software, how about without a microcontroller?
[03:59:19] <megal0maniac> Would a resistor ladder work?.. I wouldn't do it that way, but in theory...
[04:36:37] <creep> lol http://www.pmonta.com/555-contest/op-amp/op-amp.html
[04:36:38] <creep> ;>>
[05:11:51] <r00t|home> creep: too bad he didn't build the cpu...
[05:28:00] <creep> found a nice page on opamps http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/OP-AMP/OP-AMP-1.html
[05:46:25] <megal0maniac> Is "Atmel Single Wire Interface" another name for something else?
[06:02:43] <GuShH> megal0maniac: what they call SWI is actually 1-Wire, but since that's a trademark of Maxim...
[06:03:39] <GuShH> bus master, slaves... tri-state...
[06:04:24] <megal0maniac> It's one of the analyzers in the beta saleae logic software. They've got Atmel SWI and 1-Wire. Is there a difference in implementation? Since they have a seperate protocol analyzer...
[06:04:28] <soul-d> yeah probably same as with twin wire thingy that is i2c like
[06:04:52] <soul-d> but they can;t name it the same cause thats what you pay for
[06:05:05] <GuShH> TI's has it's "own" spy-by-wire
[06:05:25] <megal0maniac> Isn't Manchester also a 1 Wire protocol?
[06:05:33] <GuShH> where TEST gpio is used to mux data
[06:05:36] <GuShH> bus != protocol
[06:05:57] <megal0maniac> Aha.
[06:06:11] <GuShH> you can implement whatever protocol you want over the bus :p
[06:06:44] <GuShH> have your own handshake, data serialization, whatever.
[06:06:54] <megal0maniac> Like JTAG
[06:08:05] <GuShH> wasn't atmel's protocol called "DebugWire"
[06:08:41] <megal0maniac> Well that's what I thought it was, but I wasn't sure. Hence my asking
[06:09:17] <GuShH> megal0maniac: the interesting thing is when devices allow to be addressable over the same 1 wire bus
[06:09:32] <GuShH> so you can connect a bunch of them and just use one gpio, at the expense of speed
[06:09:42] <megal0maniac> I2C works like that
[06:10:07] <GuShH> most single bus masters should allow that
[06:10:30] <GuShH> works great for some stuff
[06:12:06] <megal0maniac> Like using the USI in I2C mode on an Attiny, and connecting to a RTC and a 16x2 display with an 8 pin uC :)
[07:45:45] <hetii> Ok i finish my little project, on the end of the day i back ro relay cause have no time to order proper mosfets. if someone will need control his amplituner via pulseaudio can use this code to detect output signal and control rs232 pins: http://pastebin.com/WeY6kXh5
[07:46:33] <philfine> Hello everyone
[07:47:55] <philfine> I want to use an avr to process wave information coming through the analog ports. Are there any not libraries to process wave information, such as FFTs, etc ?
[07:50:13] <philfine> frequency flters, etc ?
[07:50:56] <philfine> Maybe filters could be done in software however for prototyping ...
[08:10:33] <tzanger> philfine: I don't know of any AVR-optimized libs
[08:10:44] <philfine> Ok
[08:10:54] <tzanger> that's what you'd definitely want though, AVR isn't exactly a computational workhorse
[08:10:57] <philfine> Do you have experience in processing with avr of wave signals ?
[08:11:27] <tzanger> no; my analog processing is generally sensors
[08:11:39] <tzanger> simple filters, etc
[08:12:31] <philfine> I am not an expert but the type of signal processing I want is not doable in hardware, at least for my knowledge and budget
[08:12:32] <philfine> :D
[08:13:06] <philfine> I want to process piezo triggering of electronic drums
[08:13:22] <philfine> But analysing the signal phase (frequency) and amplitude
[08:13:50] <philfine> frequency allows to detect placement of the hit in the drum pad, and amplitude the intensity
[08:14:13] <philfine> From that I generate midi signals to the computer that simulates a drum set sounds
[08:18:07] <tzanger> you can probably get away with peak detection, and maybe use a goertzel detection instead of fft for frequency
[08:18:28] <tzanger> you probably only want a handful of frequencies anyway
[08:19:00] <GuShH> why is measuring frequency an issue?
[08:19:30] <GuShH> is your signal square wave? if not convert it to one and count on rise or fall, average if it's not stable enough to characterize the "note"
[08:19:32] <philfine> I never said it was an issue, I just not experience enough with processing wave information
[08:19:37] <philfine> Nop
[08:20:16] <GuShH> philfine: fft is actually not as hard as it sounds, but you gotta apply it wisely, there are tons of alternatives to specific problems
[08:20:49] <philfine> I don't necessarily need FFT, I was really just wondering what tools could I use to process the data
[08:20:52] <tzanger> GuShH: that's why I suggested goertzel. it's used in telephony to detect dtmf
[08:20:56] <philfine> Just to choose afterwards
[08:21:20] <GuShH> tzanger: any specific method is often going to be less costly so I'm up for that.
[08:21:30] <GuShH> problem is, it's not going to be as *flexible*
[08:21:47] <GuShH> So you must know in advance what your specific requirements are :p
[08:21:59] <tzanger> although I'm curious to know if you can actually detect such a short (probably only a few cycles) of frequency from a piezo hit
[08:23:11] <tzanger> most piezo drum kits I've seen use multiple piezos for the different sounds and just do peak detect for hit detection and amplitude
[08:25:07] <GuShH> if your sample rate is high enough..
[08:26:04] <GuShH> have enough bit resolution and you'll also be able to see the background noise picked up by the piezos >_<
[08:26:24] <GuShH> you could probably estimate the room temperature based on the noise floor as well.
[08:26:41] * GuShH gets naked and runs in circles
[08:30:11] <tzanger> and that, folks, is what happens if you smoke AVRs. don't do AVR; not even once!
[08:30:58] <tzanger> iirc the AVR ADC is neither super fast nor overly flexible
[08:31:20] <Steffanx> Experience tzanger ?
[08:31:22] <tzanger> you can do the sampling but postproc will likely eat all your CPU
[08:31:56] <tzanger> Steffanx: with what, smoking AVR or using its ADC?
[08:33:18] <Steffanx> the former
[08:36:57] * GuShH rolls up an avr for Steffanx
[08:37:49] <tzanger> heh no I was just commenting on GuShH's behaviour
[08:38:43] <GuShH> I don't smoke...
[08:38:53] <tzanger> I've not yet smoked an AVR, and in fact it's been many years since I have smoked any uc or ic for that matter
[08:40:03] <Steffanx> GuShH, only drinks. A lot
[08:40:05] <Steffanx> oh no
[08:40:09] <Steffanx> that is mr bear
[08:41:54] <GuShH> I actually don't drink a lot anymore
[08:42:06] <GuShH> On average a beer a week now.
[08:46:13] <tzanger> that's about my alcohol consumption
[09:00:15] <philfine> aren't AVRs done to work at full power ?
[09:00:45] <philfine> What is the point of having a resting avr, for that I would use a less expensive slow MP, if there is one :D
[09:01:12] <OndraSter> yeah, smaller AVR :D
[09:01:16] <OndraSter> is cheaper
[09:01:30] <OndraSter> AVRs can go in sleep modes down to hundreds of nano amps
[09:01:34] <OndraSter> pretty impressive by my rules
[09:02:22] <philfine> Not really a requirement for signal processing, if you have a hardware power button :D
[09:03:16] <philfine> For my application I am sure I will use full clock cycles, and the less possible resting to the avr.
[09:03:22] <GuShH> OndraSter: MSPs can go down to a few microamps... so?
[09:03:30] <OndraSter> I know
[09:03:34] <GuShH> wiat, nanos
[09:03:38] <philfine> Does anyone has expience reading the signal of a SCT-013-000 ?
[09:03:43] <philfine> Current meter ?
[09:04:13] <philfine> I am looking at http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/buildingblocks/ct-sensors-interface but son't seem to get any reliable readings from the thing
[09:04:15] <GuShH> OndraSter: got some paper with the figures?
[09:04:30] <GuShH> now if only we could go down to picoamps...
[09:04:52] <GuShH> as it stands however current battery technologies have a much higher self-discharge rate anyway
[09:04:54] <OndraSter> GuShH, datasheet
[09:04:59] <OndraSter> yep
[09:05:02] <GuShH> there has to be a comparison table though
[09:05:07] <GuShH> without having to look at individual datasheets
[09:17:34] <megal0maniac> zlog
[09:21:04] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Have you made any xboards? Or xide? Or anything?
[09:24:03] <OndraSter> oh hey
[09:24:06] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, school :)
[09:24:11] <megal0maniac> Holiday?
[09:24:12] <OndraSter> I've been working on the USB stuff
[09:24:20] <OndraSter> and it just ... sucks
[09:24:22] <OndraSter> for unknown reasons
[09:24:40] <megal0maniac> Oh wait. Seasons are backwards for you. What have you got so far?
[09:24:58] <OndraSter> trying the USB stack. It works on laptop, fails on PC...
[09:25:23] <megal0maniac> Sounds like the same crap you get with vusb :)
[09:25:28] <OndraSter> :D
[09:25:33] <megal0maniac> i.e. not standards compliant
[09:25:34] <OndraSter> PC runs Win7 x64, laptop runs W8
[09:25:47] <OndraSter> PC keeps resetting the device and sometimes asks for all the descriptors
[09:25:51] <OndraSter> but still does not fully enumerate properly
[09:26:00] <OndraSter> laptop works every single time
[09:26:10] <OndraSter> Atmel's stack works fine
[09:26:46] <megal0maniac> But you haven't got an oven, or another xboard mini, or...?
[09:26:57] <OndraSter> no
[09:26:59] <OndraSter> I am lazy
[09:27:04] <megal0maniac> Poor show :)
[09:27:15] <megal0maniac> I did it. I got the saleae
[09:27:24] <OndraSter> nice
[09:27:31] <OndraSter> I got the Schlumberger...
[09:27:32] <OndraSter> :D
[09:27:37] <megal0maniac> Not the 16. I haven't lost my mind completely
[09:28:23] <megal0maniac> Schlumberger doesn't ring any bells. But google suggests that it is actually related to this conversation. What did you get?
[09:28:39] <OndraSter> http://www.technologymuseum.eu/phpwebgallery/picture.php?/193/category/19&pwg_id=581a78aeda1b8f39345ba9acc36c36c1
[09:28:40] <OndraSter> :D :D
[09:28:43] <OndraSter> I thought I linked it to you
[09:28:47] <OndraSter> my uncle gave it to me
[09:28:59] <megal0maniac> I've been offline for almost a month. Not at home
[09:29:04] <OndraSter> I know, I saw
[09:29:16] <megal0maniac> Was in Zimbabwe last week. Nearly took a picture of the czech embassy for you
[09:29:26] <OndraSter> :)
[09:29:34] * megal0maniac wants a Schlumberger
[09:29:38] <megal0maniac> swap? :P
[09:29:42] <OndraSter> :D
[09:29:50] <OndraSter> this does 100MHz sampling. but not sure if for all the channels
[09:29:54] <OndraSter> I have got 32 channel expander!
[09:30:04] <OndraSter> I love old test gear :P
[09:33:53] <OndraSter> haha people were recieving some money from school as a discount for a flat. Everybody got 1800 CZK ($100-ish) and one person, with surname "Poor", goto nly 700 CZK ($35)
[09:33:54] <OndraSter> lol
[09:34:04] <OndraSter> got only*
[09:35:19] <megal0maniac> Co-incidence or evil sense of humour? :)
[09:35:25] <OndraSter> :P
[09:35:55] <megal0maniac> I see the Schlumberger is from 2007. It looks very oldschool
[09:36:06] <OndraSter> 2007?
[09:36:07] <OndraSter> 1980.. :)
[09:36:20] <megal0maniac> Oh.
[09:36:25] <megal0maniac> I'm not french :P
[09:36:29] <OndraSter> neither am I
[09:36:41] <OndraSter> I had to service yesterday laptop with hungarian Windows XP
[09:36:45] <megal0maniac> I've also had beer
[09:36:49] <OndraSter> Date de fabrication : Années 1980.
[09:37:00] <megal0maniac> Around 1980
[09:37:04] <megal0maniac> Circa 1980
[09:37:23] <megal0maniac> I'd figure it out if I tried :) So how does it work?
[09:37:56] <OndraSter> you power it on
[09:38:00] <OndraSter> set up channels, sampling, ..
[09:38:06] <OndraSter> connect all the channels
[09:38:22] <OndraSter> and press button MEASURE
[09:38:22] <OndraSter> it waits for trigger et
[09:38:22] <OndraSter> c
[09:39:01] <megal0maniac> How much of a buffer does it have?
[09:39:14] <OndraSter> for 4 channels - 1024 samples.. :D
[09:40:00] <megal0maniac> Nice. Still usable :)
[09:40:16] <megal0maniac> You'll need to take a video of it working :P
[09:40:31] <megal0maniac> !seen RikusW
[09:40:37] <megal0maniac> !seen RikusW
[09:40:37] <tobbor> RikusW was last seen in #avr on Jan 08 10:06 2013
[09:40:40] <OndraSter> hehe
[09:40:45] <megal0maniac> !time
[09:40:45] <tobbor> My watch says its 07:31AM Wed Jan 09 2013
[09:40:49] <OndraSter> I don't have any usable camcorder
[09:40:59] <megal0maniac> Phone :)
[09:41:50] <OndraSter> yeah, I would have to take it out to get usable light
[09:41:54] <OndraSter> I don't have Lumia 920 yet
[09:42:04] <megal0maniac> Saleae can sample 8 channels at 25khz for a year and 3 months, provided you have enough RAM :P
[09:42:31] <OndraSter> :D
[09:42:37] <OndraSter> then it overheats or..?
[09:43:08] * megal0maniac shrugs
[09:43:19] <megal0maniac> Thats 1 000 000 000 000 samples
[09:43:45] <megal0maniac> Something like 3 or 4 hours at 24mhz
[09:45:07] <tzanger> the saleae shouldn't have a time limit at any sample rate, it's all buffered on the PC
[09:45:26] <tzanger> you should be able to log indefinitely given the proper storage and software
[09:45:40] <GuShH> OndraSter: why someone mentions "phone" and you jump to "lumia 920"
[09:45:59] <GuShH> hypster please.
[09:46:22] <megal0maniac> tzanger: It's limited to 1 000 000 000 000 samples by software, I think simply because it's a reasonable maximum.
[09:46:48] <tzanger> artificial limits are stupid
[09:47:08] <tzanger> but yes, that's an awfully long logging time
[09:47:56] <OndraSter_> zlof
[09:47:58] <OndraSter_> zlog
[09:48:22] <OndraSter_> GuShH, because Lumia 920 is my next phone
[09:48:29] <GuShH> eyeroll.
[09:49:32] <megal0maniac> I <3 my Sony Ericsson
[09:50:29] <inkjetunito> OndraSter_: a nice one
[09:50:44] <OndraSter_> the phone or the analyzer, inkjetunito ?
[09:50:55] <megal0maniac> Choose wisely
[09:51:08] <OndraSter_> (I am expecting reply "both")
[09:51:40] <inkjetunito> OndraSter_: the phone. my roomie has one. the only annoying thing seems to be the search button, that can be accidentally hit
[09:51:49] <OndraSter_> I have got 800 now
[09:51:50] <megal0maniac> Wow I'm leaving now
[09:51:53] <OndraSter_> :D
[09:51:59] <OndraSter_> I am MS user
[09:52:14] <OndraSter_> I bought Omnia 7 1.5 years ago and half a year ago I was given L800 by MS as a developer
[09:52:17] <megal0maniac> (Also because we're unplugging the modem for lightning)
[09:52:28] <megal0maniac> Omnia is HORRIBLE
[09:52:33] <OndraSter_> Omnia 7
[09:52:35] <megal0maniac> Can't vouch for anything since then
[09:52:35] <OndraSter_> not any other omnia
[09:52:45] <OndraSter_> Omnia 7 <3
[09:52:55] <megal0maniac> I think it was the Omnia 800 or 900 or something
[09:52:57] <megal0maniac> Forget
[09:53:01] <OndraSter_> oh those old ones... nothx
[09:53:22] <megal0maniac> SE Xperia Active == WIN
[09:53:25] <OndraSter_> Omnia 7 = screen from Galaxy S (SAMOLED), metal chassis
[09:53:56] <OndraSter_> I shall do for the simplicity this http://clip2net.com/s/2GRr5
[09:53:59] <OndraSter_> as a kit
[09:53:59] <inkjetunito> Tom_itx: following the freenode guidelines, all users on the channel / joining the channel should be noted that the channel is publicly logged
[09:54:18] <megal0maniac> !thislog
[09:54:19] <tobbor> This one: http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23avr-2013-01-09.html
[09:54:34] <megal0maniac> inkjetunito: There are two, that we know of ;)
[09:55:06] <megal0maniac> I don't know of the Omnia 7 because it was never in this country
[09:55:20] <megal0maniac> And nice dice :P
[09:55:32] <inkjetunito> megal0maniac: yikes! ircopz! ircopz!
[09:55:33] <megal0maniac> attiny, obviously
[09:55:34] <inkjetunito> :p
[09:55:36] <OndraSter_> ye
[09:55:37] <OndraSter_> 13A
[09:55:56] <megal0maniac> Are you going to have rolling animation? :P
[09:55:57] <OndraSter_> 0805 caps/resistors
[09:56:00] <OndraSter_> hehe
[09:56:08] <OndraSter_> I am not multiplexing them completely, just as on dice
[09:56:10] <megal0maniac> I had one once
[09:56:16] <megal0maniac> Electronic dice
[09:56:22] <megal0maniac> Can't remember where it is
[09:56:29] <OndraSter_> thus top left & bottom right = same, top right & bottom left = same, center left & center right same
[09:56:37] <OndraSter_> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10212
[09:56:41] <OndraSter_> $20 kit lol
[09:56:48] <OndraSter_> sure it comes with small acrylic base...
[09:56:51] <OndraSter_> but mine is SMD!
[09:56:56] <OndraSter_> and smaller
[09:57:05] <megal0maniac> And not $20
[09:57:09] <OndraSter_> yep
[09:57:12] <megal0maniac> Because not sparkfun
[09:57:14] <OndraSter_> I want to target 5 - 7€-ish
[09:57:16] <megal0maniac> sparksad
[09:57:21] <OndraSter_> 7€ with VAT probably
[09:58:58] <OndraSter_> oh hey there
[10:01:07] <megal0maniac> Alright, lightning time. When I get home, I'll put irssi back on the router and all will be good again :)
[10:01:09] <megal0maniac> Cheers
[10:23:50] <philfine> Can anyone suggest a simple circuit to amp to make piezos output some relevant voltages ?
[10:24:06] <philfine> I am not really a hardware guy :D
[10:24:29] <Horologium> not sure what you mean by "relevant" there.
[10:24:49] <philfine> 0-5 V
[10:24:51] <philfine> to ADC
[10:25:31] <philfine> I don't have any op amps in my components stock
[10:26:05] <Horologium> as in, you want to use the piezo as a mic?
[10:26:52] <philfine> +-
[10:26:53] <philfine> :D
[10:26:59] <philfine> It is a drum pad
[10:27:13] <philfine> So I guess it is like a mic
[10:27:19] <Horologium> generally when you strike a piezo device it gives out much more than 5V.
[10:28:38] <philfine> Really? Did not knew that.
[10:28:53] <Horologium> ever see the sparker on a gass grill?
[10:29:06] <Horologium> the one where you push the button and it goes SNAP and fires a spark?
[10:29:10] <philfine> I have some diagrams of a circuit using LM op amps
[10:29:12] <Horologium> that's just a little piezo device.
[10:29:13] <philfine> op amp
[10:29:38] <Horologium> you can just build a 2 transistor amplifier to use it as a mic input though.
[10:30:08] <philfine> Can you suggest a schematic ?
[10:33:05] <Horologium> looking now.
[10:33:42] <Horologium> http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/Elektor/TalkToMe/images/PiezoAmplifier.gif
[10:33:53] <philfine> NPN preferably :D
[10:34:13] <philfine> perfect
[10:34:15] <Horologium> you get what you get.
[10:34:29] <Horologium> google search is your friend.
[10:34:36] <philfine> thanks sorry
[10:34:45] <Horologium> piezo microphone transistor amplifier
[10:35:06] <Horologium> that's what I searched for...that gif was in the google images list at the top of the page.
[10:36:23] <philfine> Why square wave ?
[10:36:29] <philfine> Why the square wave ?
[10:45:39] <megal0maniac> zlog
[10:50:15] <Horologium> dunno.
[10:50:22] <Horologium> build it and test and see what it does.
[12:05:04] <diametric> afternoon
[12:06:00] <megal0maniac> Evening :)
[12:06:29] <Horologium> still morning here.
[13:37:29] <creep> some interesting mwthod of prototyping electronics :) http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2011/some-gems-from-the-555-contest/ (though the guy couldn't replace the dial collector transistor with 2 transistors)
[13:37:36] <creep> *dual
[13:38:25] <creep> i mean this link: http://a4x4kiwi.blogspot.hu/2011/02/555-contest-entry.html
[13:39:19] <creep> mount components on printed schematic and wire at back haha
[13:43:13] <Horologium> taken from old radio shack kits actually.
[13:44:03] <Horologium> I remember an FM transmitter kit like that...only it had spring terminals at all the connecting points....component leads went through the cardboard and connected to the springs on the underside.
[13:44:41] <creep> ah... spring terminals
[13:44:51] <Horologium> just tight wound springs.
[13:45:04] <Horologium> miss those days.
[13:45:21] <creep> i like soldering with silver solder
[13:45:33] <Horologium> I prefer good old lead solder.
[13:45:52] <creep> SnPbAg is best
[13:45:59] <Horologium> I'm not having kids so I don't care about the heavy metals.
[13:46:05] <creep> it stays shiny, and stable
[13:46:44] <creep> yeah lead free is junk, its good for throw-away things
[13:47:06] <Horologium> tin whiskers are the shiznit!
[13:47:06] <Horologium> hehe
[13:47:50] <creep> i tried leadfree with silver and it falls apart and breaks much more easily
[13:48:08] <Horologium> have multiple devices here that have that problem.
[13:48:13] <Horologium> mostly usb connectors.
[13:48:29] <creep> not talking about the higher temperature, and zero wetting, can not be used without flux
[13:48:46] <Horologium> ring cracks and worse.
[13:48:50] <creep> o ea
[13:49:18] <OndraSter_> one of many reasons why I hate european union :)
[13:49:26] <megal0maniac> I can still get mercury switches :)
[13:49:30] <creep> :) especially if minute amount of solder applied so it can be cheaper
[13:50:49] <creep> i have a PC power supply that had the double schottky leads broken out from the board, making the 5V jump above 7V because of the 12V line failed to charge
[13:51:18] <megal0maniac> Yay :D
[13:51:27] <megal0maniac> Fire
[13:51:35] <OndraSter_> in the hole
[13:51:48] <megal0maniac> Kill all the usb things
[13:51:59] <OndraSter_> kill all the USB specifications!
[13:52:10] <OndraSter_> kill a USB - save a tree!
[13:52:13] <OndraSter_> save the planet!
[13:52:15] <megal0maniac> That's you :P
[13:52:18] <OndraSter_> :D
[13:52:54] <Horologium> we need to go back to good old serial and parallel damnit!
[13:53:18] <creep> Save the trees! Eat beavers!
[13:53:52] <Horologium> save the world, eat a virgin?
[13:54:14] <creep> how about an 5V supply and an OC cable?
[13:54:28] <Horologium> OC?
[13:54:32] <creep> it could be used for hdds any instead of usb
[13:54:34] <Horologium> over charge?
[13:54:37] <creep> optical carrier
[13:54:49] <Horologium> aahh
[13:54:52] <creep> OC-48 and things
[13:55:04] <Horologium> optical makes it harder for hobby people to interface things.
[13:55:39] <creep> it would be nice if it was much cheaper
[13:56:18] <Horologium> they keep trying optical but it hasn't really caught on...I have several computers with optical audio connectors.
[13:56:27] <Horologium> but no speakers with optical inputs.
[13:56:54] <creep> ;>
[13:57:02] <megal0maniac> I love optical, but spdif over rca does just as well
[13:57:23] <megal0maniac> Same digital protocol
[13:57:43] <creep> can't usb be translated simply to optical? lold
[13:58:03] <creep> as a side effect, it would go farther
[13:58:03] <Horologium> simply? no
[13:58:20] <Horologium> I have seen bidirectional wireless usb extenders though.
[13:58:53] <creep> so, just hack leds and photodiodes with CFB opamps on it
[14:00:18] <creep> http://wiki.openwrt.org/_media/oldwiki/openwrtdocs/hardware/comtrend/usb-schematic.png?cache=
[14:02:32] <creep> optical USB would go 200m at speed of light right?
[14:02:51] <creep> within the 1500ns roundtrip
[14:04:00] <Horologium> the data would flow that fast but getting data onto the fiber that fast is a problem.
[14:04:26] <creep> why?
[14:04:29] <Horologium> your connections converting electrical to optical and back again are your biggest bottleneck.
[14:05:07] <creep> did you ever wondered on how your DVD writer writes the bits? :)
[14:05:18] <soul-d> what speeds are that ? :P im wondering when where upgrading to gbit here
[14:05:18] <Horologium> limited by how fast you can switch that LED on and off...and how fast the sensor can pick up data at the other end.
[14:05:25] <creep> there is >one< laser diode and is modulated
[14:05:26] <Horologium> I know exactly how it does it.
[14:07:10] <Horologium> and there are optical fiber interfaces that are faster even than the fastest optical disk reader/writer.
[14:08:18] <creep> have you experimented with ultrasonic humidifiers yet? ;>
[14:08:33] <soul-d> to do what creep
[14:08:45] <creep> to humidify air ?
[14:09:16] <soul-d> oh humidifier im abusing a pond misting thingy for that based on ultrasonic was much cheaper :P
[14:09:48] <creep> there are some cheap stuff available... but still interesting
[14:10:46] <Horologium> I like the little desktop ones that make a fog from half a cup of water using ultrasonics..
[14:15:26] <creep> :)
[14:15:50] <creep> but computer+humidity= nothing good
[14:17:00] <OndraSter_> http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-research-shows-off-illumiroom-project-at-ces/
[14:17:01] <OndraSter_> DEAR SANTA
[14:18:51] <soul-d> nothing to special
[14:19:23] <creep> i need a new hobby, fabricating opamp wafers
[14:22:33] <jadew> OndraSter_, do you have a dev account for wp 8?
[14:23:39] <OndraSter_> for some reason the confirming email does not want to arrive
[14:23:42] <OndraSter_> I had dev account a year ago
[14:24:14] <jadew> and after you unlock your phone, do you still have to stay connected to that account in order to develop?
[14:24:33] <OndraSter_> huh?
[14:24:44] <OndraSter_> you just launch developer unlock tool
[14:24:46] <OndraSter_> on your PC
[14:24:53] <OndraSter_> insert your MSDNAA login
[14:24:54] <jadew> that's a one time thing?
[14:24:57] <OndraSter_> and it activates the phone
[14:24:58] <OndraSter_> yes
[14:25:13] <jadew> so technically another dev could activate my phone
[14:25:14] <OndraSter_> it checks once a week or so on the MS servers probably, in the background
[14:25:17] <OndraSter_> yes
[14:25:20] <OndraSter_> well
[14:25:23] <OndraSter_> you would have to activate it
[14:25:32] <OndraSter_> he would have to give you his login & password
[14:25:42] <OndraSter_> or you would have to borrow him your phone for a while
[14:26:05] <jadew> I want to get my g/f to sign up for a dev account, since she's a student and it would be free
[14:26:21] <OndraSter_> :)
[14:26:28] <OndraSter_> I had student account too
[14:26:37] <OndraSter_> and I wanted to create a new one since I am now on uni
[14:26:44] <OndraSter_> (we had MSDNAA even on middle school :o)
[14:27:01] <jadew> nice
[14:28:21] <jadew> kinda shitty that you can't upload your own programs on your phone with out a dev account
[14:28:25] <jadew> very apple like
[14:28:27] <creep> Horologium<< have you made some integrated circuit yet?
[14:28:40] <OndraSter_> <jadew> kinda shitty that you can't upload your own programs on your phone with out a dev account
[14:28:40] <Horologium> nope.
[14:28:41] <OndraSter_> yep
[14:28:51] <OndraSter_> that is where the emu steps in
[14:29:24] <Horologium> I don't have a chip fab here to make ICs.
[14:29:47] <OndraSter_> I wish I had one
[14:29:49] <creep> yet
[14:29:50] <creep> :)
[14:29:52] <OndraSter_> :D
[14:29:54] <jadew> who wouldn't :)
[14:30:08] <creep> what is the billl of materials?
[14:30:10] <OndraSter_> ;)
[14:30:19] <Horologium> start with 1 million dollars
[14:30:23] <Horologium> then buy stuff.
[14:30:37] <jadew> if that's even enough
[14:30:39] <creep> i'm sure it can be done low end
[14:30:41] <OndraSter_> I would like someday in the future work on designing some wafer
[14:30:43] <Horologium> I said start.
[14:30:49] <creep> like 1um lines...
[14:30:52] <OndraSter_> 1M USD is not much
[14:30:59] <Horologium> I said start.
[14:31:10] <Horologium> that gets you the building with a cleanroom.
[14:31:21] <OndraSter_> :)
[14:31:29] <OndraSter_> I was thinking more like ordering from TSMC
[14:32:07] <jadew> I think a factory will be 100 mil+ (to buy)
[14:32:45] <soul-d> i can fetch some machienes close by asml is not to far away from me
[14:32:56] <soul-d> just wire the money to me OndraSter_
[14:34:12] <OndraSter_> :D
[14:35:53] <creep> A pseudomorphic heterojunction bipolar transistor developed at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, built from indium phosphide and indium gallium arsenide and designed with compositionally graded collector, base and emitter, was demonstrated to cut off at a speed of 710 gigahertz
[14:35:57] <Timelord83> hey i am looking to control a fan speed and have the fans RPM's on an LCD.. anyone recommend an IC that can handle button input to raise and lower output voltage?
[14:35:59] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterojunction_bipolar_transistor
[14:36:06] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterojunction_bipolar_transistor
[14:36:16] <creep> <;
[14:36:27] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_electron_mobility_transistor
[14:36:28] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MESFET
[14:36:40] <creep> http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-02/graphene-based-computers-may-end-silicon-age
[14:37:05] <Horologium> Timelord83, depending on the fan, I would recommend PWM rather than voltage change....and any little microcontroller should handle that.
[14:37:11] <soul-d> hetro bipolar is that like sometimes he will be really gay to ?
[14:37:22] <OndraSter_> :D
[14:38:02] <Timelord83> ok.. but i want to be able to control the speed change with up an down buttons not a dial style potentiamoator
[14:38:06] <Timelord83> GOD i hate cell phoens
[14:38:10] <Timelord83> PHONES
[14:38:14] <Horologium> yes,.
[14:38:23] <Horologium> attiny45...8 pin microcontroller
[14:38:51] <Timelord83> yessss ummmm ugh ur going to make me learn do this.. arent u
[14:39:13] <Horologium> well, there probably isn't a custom chip made just to fit your little issue.
[14:39:37] <OndraSter_> you want PWM
[14:39:42] <OndraSter_> to control the fan
[14:39:47] <OndraSter_> for many reasons
[14:40:19] <Horologium> but, that requires learning!
[14:40:26] <OndraSter_> :(
[14:40:28] <Timelord83> i've googled it about 3 times today and all the examples use a 555 and i don't want a timer.. so you guys are my last resort :D
[14:40:29] <OndraSter_> learning hurts
[14:40:35] <OndraSter_> huh
[14:40:37] <OndraSter_> why not?
[14:40:45] <Horologium> 555 is not JUST a timer.
[14:40:46] <Timelord83> ohh i learn all week. 5 class college student
[14:40:56] <Timelord83> i know its more than a timer
[14:41:16] <Timelord83> but i'd rather have an IC its part of a much larger project i am working on
[14:41:23] <Horologium> you will need a sense line for the fan rpm sensor
[14:41:29] <Horologium> one for the pwm output.
[14:41:35] <Horologium> 2 for the buttons
[14:41:48] <OndraSter_> well, more like attiny1634
[14:41:52] <OndraSter_> since he needs enough GPIOs for the LCD
[14:41:54] <Horologium> and 7 for a 2x16 alphanumeric LCD display.
[14:41:54] <OndraSter_> or 2313
[14:42:00] <Horologium> attiny26 should handle it.
[14:42:09] <creep> i like analog voltage control for fans, unless the fan has internal pwm
[14:42:22] <OndraSter_> creep, with PWM you can go to much lower speeds
[14:42:24] <OndraSter_> and no power wasted
[14:42:41] <creep> if you want to pwm a bldc it may whistle ;/
[14:42:52] <OndraSter_> well that is why the fans are made for PWM control
[14:43:02] <OndraSter_> you will need external transistor though, since the pulses are 12V
[14:43:12] <creep> i have a few hundred
[14:43:16] <OndraSter_> :)
[14:43:20] <Horologium> but, without some more detail it's hard to really recommend anything...what kind of LCD display? What kind of fan?
[14:43:50] <Timelord83> i found a nice example i just didn't get where the inputs where listed as +12volt and +0volt but the outputs of the fan where listed + and -
[14:44:01] <creep> OndraSter_<< btw, i have driven a pwm fan with 1 7555 ic :) and a 100k potmeter
[14:44:02] <Timelord83> cheapest LCD i can find smallest two
[14:44:05] <Timelord83> to*
[14:44:11] <Horologium> too
[14:44:12] <OndraSter_> creep, :)
[14:44:15] <Timelord83> and fan is irrelavent other than 12volt
[14:44:22] <Horologium> no, it is not.
[14:44:24] <creep> pin 7 is open collector ;)
[14:44:24] <Timelord83> i will order the fan to fit the ic/application
[14:44:39] <Horologium> current draw is an issue
[14:45:50] <Timelord83> assume less than .1amps
[14:46:03] <Horologium> and how are you doing RPM sense? will the fan have a sense line on it? will you have an optical interrupter?
[14:46:04] <Timelord83> no i lie
[14:46:08] <Timelord83> .3amps
[14:46:29] <Timelord83> it will be a three wire.. with sense
[14:47:49] <Timelord83> i am using 40mm fans
[14:48:04] <Timelord83> for cooling stepper motors
[14:48:17] <Timelord83> well anything i point the fan at really
[14:50:22] <Timelord83> alright lets go REALLY simple
[14:50:34] <Timelord83> i just want to PWM to change fan speed.
[14:50:39] <Horologium> simplest I can go is an attiny26
[14:50:42] <Timelord83> don't care about RPM LCD or anything like that
[14:50:45] <Timelord83> once i get that working
[14:50:48] <Timelord83> i'll expand
[14:50:58] <Timelord83> thats a 20 pin correct?
[14:51:02] <Horologium> that gives room for expansion.
[14:51:04] <Horologium> yes.
[14:51:13] <Timelord83> alright i can program that with my programer
[14:51:17] <Horologium> or an atmega88 gives you some more program space
[14:51:57] <Horologium> your standard 16x2 character LCD takes a minimum of 7 lines.
[14:51:59] <creep> well every single phase PC fan has a built in freq meter, it just needs a resistor and an NPN transistor, and you have an open collector output
[14:52:01] <Horologium> that is in 4 bit mode.
[14:52:30] <creep> they output 2 pulses/rotation
[14:52:45] <OndraSter_> wait
[14:52:49] <OndraSter_> you want to PWM the *power* pin ?!
[14:53:21] <Horologium> they aren't really made for that but it does kinda work.
[14:53:31] <OndraSter_> eww
[14:53:39] <OndraSter_> what about using the dedicated PWM control pin? :...
[14:53:45] <OndraSter_> those 4 pinned fans
[14:53:46] <Horologium> you need the 4 wire ones to direct control them.
[14:53:53] <OndraSter_> obviously
[14:54:01] <Horologium> obliviously.
[14:54:20] <OndraSter_> Skyrim?
[14:54:28] <Horologium> never played it.
[14:54:29] <Timelord83> ummm
[14:54:37] <Horologium> I used that term years before that game came out.
[14:54:40] <OndraSter_> oh
[14:54:41] <OndraSter_> ok
[14:54:42] <Timelord83> application may dictate i don't get to use a 4 pin fan
[14:54:55] <creep> :) i guess its because they do not really have overvoltage protection on the hall ic, and interrupting current at the winding will cause a voltage spike
[14:55:06] <Timelord83> i can always redesign the fan mount for a thicker fan
[14:55:14] <Horologium> again, you CAN pwm your standard 3 wire fan but the response will be anything but linear.
[14:55:48] <creep> sure, they start at about 5V
[14:55:56] <Timelord83> well at 12volt
[14:56:00] <Timelord83> the little fans i have SCREAM
[14:56:14] <Timelord83> twice/three times as loud as the machine they cool
[14:56:57] <creep> i made a temperature controller for small fans using opamps and ntc
[14:57:11] <Timelord83> so i figured i would give the end user the ability to adjust the fans
[14:57:14] <creep> "smart fan"
[14:57:36] <creep> if stuff is hot, it accelerates :P
[14:58:04] <Timelord83> ya trying for smallest possible pcb footprint
[14:58:14] <creep> SMT
[14:58:19] <Timelord83> ohh in the end it will be
[14:58:28] <Timelord83> but my proto will be all hole through
[14:58:38] <creep> waste of time ;<
[14:58:40] <OndraSter_> yep
[14:58:54] <Timelord83> very VERY large hands
[14:59:02] <Timelord83> i do not solder SMT until its working perfectly
[14:59:06] <creep> use tweezers
[14:59:07] <Timelord83> i value my finger skin
[14:59:23] <Timelord83> ya i still managed to get burn once or twice
[14:59:58] <Timelord83> alright
[15:00:09] <Timelord83> time to grab a sheet and look at the 28
[15:00:28] <Timelord83> wait 26 or 28
[15:02:41] <OndraSter_> <Timelord83> ya i still managed to get burn once or twice
[15:02:43] <OndraSter_> no burns no fun
[15:03:07] <OndraSter_> my prototype stage = revA boards :)
[15:03:26] <Timelord83> haha yes
[15:03:43] <Timelord83> i am going to try flow soldering my next SMT board
[15:03:47] <Timelord83> see how that works out
[15:04:21] <creep> flow?
[15:05:05] <Timelord83> sorry wave
[15:05:45] <Timelord83> no i dunno
[15:05:46] <creep> smt boards are not to be swimming in molten solder
[15:05:51] <Timelord83> using a small oven and the paste stuff
[15:05:58] <creep> but how about a toaster oven ?
[15:05:59] <Timelord83> seen ben heck do it about 100 times
[15:06:07] <Timelord83> can't think today
[15:06:17] <Timelord83> prolly not the best day to design a circuit
[15:07:06] <creep> for lols i put some board on my precision hotplate
[15:07:17] <creep> it reflowed well
[15:08:37] <creep> (unregulated will fry the components)
[15:08:46] <tzanger> I've got big hands too, I solder 0402 just fine with tweezers and an inspection microscope
[15:08:53] <tzanger> Ic an do 0402 without the scope but tweezers are essential
[15:09:10] <tzanger> I can't stand solder paste for prototyping
[15:09:26] <creep> i used a 3W led and tweezers for 0402 without any magnifiers
[15:09:43] <Horologium> it fills up the holes in the solderless breadboard something fierce.
[15:09:50] <tzanger> yeah like I said I can manage 0402 without visual aid but it's *so* much easier with
[15:09:59] <tzanger> best $700 I ever spent, I use that scope all the time
[15:10:06] <creep> hm
[15:10:27] <tzanger> sorry $459 I just looked it up
[15:10:30] <creep> a good lighting is all i need
[15:10:36] <Horologium> thinking of getting a cheap 30 dollar kids usb microscope for that
[15:10:42] <creep> its comfortable that way
[15:11:04] <creep> low light + 0402 is not cool
[15:11:17] <tzanger> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/3-5-90X-Stereo-Zoom-144-LED-Ring-Light-Trinocular-Microscope-Dual-bar-Boom-Stand-/170905659375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cac567ef&_uhb=1
[15:11:34] <tzanger> that is what mine looks like, wtihout the ring light and my zoom is 7-45, not 3-90
[15:12:37] <creep> 144 LED ? lol
[15:12:45] <tzanger> I just use a 150W-equivalent compactfluorescent bulb in a standard gooseneck lamp
[15:12:51] <tzanger> thing is brighter than the sun
[15:13:02] <creep> there are 80W leds out there with 8000+ lumens
[15:13:24] <tzanger> sure but I bet building that into a system is more epxensive and less useful
[15:13:24] <creep> cri 80+
[15:13:34] <tzanger> you want even light around the subject, not a single point source
[15:13:56] <tzanger> (that's where my solution is not as good as the ring light)
[15:14:10] <creep> i have no idea what is ideal for that stuff
[15:14:17] <soul-d> lumen requires distance
[15:14:25] <tzanger> lots of light and no shadows, that's what is optimal :-)
[15:14:36] <tzanger> but yeah I bought it 3y ago and it has been awesmoe
[15:14:41] <creep> so 3x 3W led ?
[15:14:47] <Horologium> http://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Deluxe-Handheld-Digital-Microscope/dp/B004QF0A1Y/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1357765291&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=usb+digital+microscope
[15:14:53] <creep> or maybe 6
[15:14:56] <Horologium> I was thinking something like that
[15:14:59] <tzanger> creep: again, I bet 3x3W is more expensive than 144 cheapass white LEDs
[15:15:15] <creep> well about $18
[15:15:19] <tzanger> Horologium: an assembly shop near me uses something like that.. it works well enough
[15:15:37] <creep> try cree.com
[15:15:44] <tzanger> I have the trinocular head on mine which can use something like that, but I've never used it
[15:17:08] <Timelord83> alright... how can i view the MOTD for this channel?
[15:17:11] <Timelord83> MOTD?
[15:17:22] <Timelord83> nvm damn phone got it right for once.. sigh
[15:19:40] <creep> /motd
[15:19:47] <creep> motd is for server...
[15:20:02] <creep> /topic
[15:20:06] <creep> is for channel
[15:21:12] <creep> tzanger<< ok, i hate those cheap crap because they have a very low CRI and everything but white
[15:22:56] <tzanger> creep: sure but you're not going after photo-grade colour rendering here
[15:23:00] <tzanger> but to each their own
[15:23:32] <creep> i prefer neutral white
[15:24:06] <creep> but for paper work a cool white with 75CRI is cool too...
[15:24:16] <creep> yey uv
[15:25:12] <creep> tzanger<< but you may have difficulties reading color codes with the cheap leds
[15:25:42] <creep> and if you use it 12-16 hours a day you get used to it
[15:26:27] <tzanger> colour codes don't exist on SMT parts :-)
[15:27:25] <creep> you'll laugh on it, but i have some color coded 0805 sized cylindrical resistors ;>>
[15:27:37] <creep> ( i hate them because they like to roll away )
[15:28:27] <creep> this is why i hate sod-80 too, so i brought some taped 0805 prismatic diodes
[15:30:01] <creep> isn't a video microscope cheaper and more comfortable if you connect it to a PC and watch on a TFT ?
[15:30:53] <Timelord83> creep: if you can work liek that.. i can't
[15:30:57] <Horologium> one would think so.
[15:31:01] <Timelord83> i have to be eyes down on the project
[15:31:05] <Timelord83> or it gets messy fast
[15:31:26] <creep> haha, tft is in front, and your microscope is in front too no?
[15:31:44] <tzanger> creep: MELFs? eww. I *hated* that package
[15:31:46] <Timelord83> i was using a lil usb microscope it was horrible
[15:32:00] <Timelord83> i ended up going backt to my modified helping hands
[15:32:02] <creep> is it for sale?
[15:32:06] <tzanger> creep: no, I find looking at something real as opposed to a screen easier
[15:32:07] <creep> ;>>
[15:32:30] <Timelord83> no i returned it to the rightfull 6 year old owner
[15:33:05] <creep> ah anyway, i'm not doing chip hacking now
[15:33:37] <creep> and surface mounted components does not need microscope
[15:33:45] <creep> maybe wire bonding
[15:35:50] <creep> tzanger<< i'm not sure that $700 microscope is more 3d than a screen
[15:36:19] <creep> is it?
[15:38:16] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_bonding
[15:38:26] <tzanger> creep: $500, I corrected that
[15:38:26] <creep> o yea Gold wire ball-bonded to a gold contact pad
[15:38:33] <tzanger> it's not abotu 3D, it's about shitty webcam resolution
[15:39:05] <tzanger> I've never had to wire bond beyond a spot weld. :-)
[15:39:05] <Horologium> macro lens bonded to an iphone.
[15:39:38] <tzanger> Horologium: too much fucking around IMO. but like I said earlier, to each their own. If you've got something that works for you, then that is by far the best solution for you
[15:40:03] <Horologium> yup.
[15:40:19] <Horologium> just seemed that would be an actual decent use for an iphone or ipad.
[15:42:27] <creep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_device_fabrication
[15:43:08] <creep> 10 µm — 1971 1 µm — 1985 22 nm — 2012 :)
[15:44:51] <creep> In 2010, an Australian team announced that they fabricated a single functional transistor out of 7 atoms that measured 4 nm in length.
[15:44:52] <creep> lold?
[15:45:13] <creep> so they'll just put some atoms there instead of etching then
[15:45:24] <Horologium> pretty much.
[15:45:43] <creep> whyt if a gamma ray hits 2 atoms from 7 ? lol
[15:46:00] <Horologium> so it isn't radiation hardened.
[15:46:10] <Horologium> keep it away from the Hulk.
[15:46:33] <creep> gamma rays come from out of space and from nukes, and stuff incidentally
[15:48:51] <creep> have you cleaned your rooms yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Clean_room.jpg
[16:15:26] <CrownWheel> Hey. I'm new to Atmel Studio 6. What do you guys use for source version control?
[16:21:31] * tandoori dances
[16:26:17] <Horologium> stick around for an answer maybe?
[16:34:45] <GuShH> Horologium: that's asking way too much from people like him... they want the answer NAO
[16:35:01] <Horologium> yup.
[16:35:10] <Horologium> is rather typical these days.
[16:35:45] <Horologium> have customers that email me then ten minutes later call the office wanting to know why I haven't called them back.
[16:36:17] <Horologium> as I don't read emails while driving or while at a customer's site, it could be an hour or more before I see and respond to someone's email.
[16:38:10] <Horologium> yanno, if it weren't for customers and my boss I might actually enjoy my job.
[16:40:47] <gkwhc> Hi everyone. i have an application that has one wakeup pin which can wakeup through two push buttons. but after wakeup, the mcu needs to know which push button was pressed. i was thinking of using a D latch, but are there more elegant/simpler/cheaper ways to achieve this?
[16:41:36] <Horologium> gkwhc, ummm...
[16:42:14] <Horologium> kinda depends on how you are doing wakeup.
[16:42:27] <BorgCuba> hi, I want to call a function from some bootloader code - how can I assign an absolute address to a function like; "extern func(void) @ 0x1bcd"
[16:42:35] <gkwhc> Horologium: what do you mean?
[16:43:32] <BorgCuba> I know that I did this once for some arm code using a linker script but I currently cannot remember how
[16:43:49] <Horologium> arm and avr are different in how they handle those things.
[16:45:02] <Horologium> gkwhc, if your wakeup pin is also an ADC input you could, possibly, put different resistors on the two switches and read the resistance with the ADC.
[16:46:18] <gkwhc> Horologium: ah thats clever! but unfortunately theres no ADC input
[16:46:49] <Horologium> then some kind of external selector is how you will need to do it I guess.
[16:47:31] <BorgCuba> Horologium, of course they are different but its still gcc
[16:47:32] <gkwhc> like a relay?
[16:47:49] <BorgCuba> or binutils
[16:48:10] <Horologium> BorgCuba, and different...although, I bet there is some way to do it.
[16:48:33] <Horologium> I know I've seen it done the other way, with the main program calling routines from within the bootloader.
[16:49:17] <Horologium> I would think setting the function up as an unused interrupt might work...then the call to it will always be in the same place in the lower interrupt table.
[16:50:16] <Horologium> gkwhc, would need to know more about the whole thing to know how would be best or even possible to do that...
[16:50:25] <BorgCuba> Horologium, that is exactly what I want to do - call bootloader functions from the main app
[16:50:39] <Horologium> oh..you stated it the other way around.
[16:50:46] <Horologium> or I read it wrong.
[16:51:06] <BorgCuba> I tried to state it right ;-) maybe I failed
[16:51:38] <BorgCuba> found the code, looks pretty much like I tried it
[16:51:42] <Horologium> once the bootloader is compiled, and if you generate a list during compile then you could extract the starting addresses of the routines from that.
[16:51:47] <gkwhc> i see. i'll think more about it, thanks :)
[16:52:09] <Horologium> or, again, assign them to unused interrupt vectors then the jump to them would be available..
[16:52:21] <Horologium> I know I've seen it discussed in here but it's been a while.
[16:52:35] <BorgCuba> Horologium, I have the addresses
[16:54:28] <BorgCuba> well, whats the difference of MEMORY and SECTIONS btw?
[16:58:51] <creep> do you think it is a good idea to hold a high frequency mechanically vibrating equipment by hand?
[16:59:27] <creep> i'm concerned about joint wearing and possible cell damage
[16:59:48] <OndraSter_> hold what?
[16:59:49] <OndraSter_> ?!
[16:59:53] <OndraSter_> (dirty mind: off)
[16:59:54] <creep> and there are ultrasonic things that are hand-held...
[17:01:22] <creep> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-CJ69Wz4NQ
[17:01:27] <creep> like this doesn't look good
[17:01:31] <creep> lols
[17:01:54] <creep> high power ultrasonic welder held by hand
[17:05:13] <creep> imagine welding plastics with this stuff http://www.sonicsandmaterials.com/plastic-datasheet/Hand_Gun.PDF then think about what might it do with your hand (and ears? 20khz haha)
[17:08:23] <tzanger> < Horologium> yanno, if it weren't for customers and my boss I might actually enjoy my job.
[17:08:33] <tzanger> become an independent contractor! then you can hate yourself and your customers!
[17:09:52] <OndraSter_> :)
[17:30:41] <BorgCuba> I am in deep trouble, bye
[17:31:13] <tandoori> ok it has been suggested that I come in here and ask for advice. I am working with my first ever MCU-based project and was told that ordering ATMEGA16 and 32s were dumb choices. So I am looking for a couple of more, up to date reccomendations. My only requirement (at this point) is that they have a reasonable number of pins (maybe 40 - 60) and support the USART protocol, oh and are protoboard compatible
[17:31:26] <tzanger> at90can128
[17:31:28] <tzanger> I love that chip
[17:31:40] <tzanger> olimex avr-can board is decent too
[17:31:53] <tzanger> hm, not protoboard compatible though
[17:32:17] <tandoori> I already have my lovely pocket AVR programmer directly from SparkFun
[17:32:18] <tzanger> although all the I/O comes out to two 34-pin IDC headers, which I just attach floppy-drive cables to and take off the signals I'm interested in
[17:34:20] <tandoori> oh wow, that might be a little much for me. any suggestions from the atmega line?
[17:35:09] <tzanger> too much in what sense, pricey?
[17:36:57] <tandoori> no not pricey
[17:37:05] <tandoori> just overkill for my currently project
[17:37:10] <tandoori> *current
[17:38:57] <tandoori> I think the most complex thing in my project involves driving a biometric and display module, MAYBE the step motor driver
[17:39:24] <tzanger> pretty much anything should work for that, depending on what you mean by "biometric"
[17:39:46] <tandoori> fingerprint reader requires UART communication
[17:41:22] <tzanger> bah, you can probably get away with that with anything
[17:41:40] <tzanger> you're not doing any real massaging of the actual data, just "fingerprints" of the biometric data
[17:43:15] <tandoori> hehe, but I need enough pins (well I am going to try to use this shift register because I need to learn to use them) to work with everything too. 'get away with that with anything' : See with that is where someone like you comes in
[17:46:45] <creep> italians claim coldfusion device patent hahaha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer
[17:49:58] <Horologium> tandoori, atmega1284p lots f flash and ram in a 40pin cip
[17:50:45] <OndraSter_> why not XBoard coco? :)
[17:50:46] <Horologium> 40 pins is the largest throughhole chip available in avr
[17:50:57] <OndraSter_> it is 0.7" wide
[17:51:05] <creep> tqfp is a cool beast
[17:51:09] <OndraSter_> 256kB flash, USB bootloader, 16kB RAM, 40 GPIOs or so
[17:51:44] <OndraSter_> 48 GPIOs
[17:51:55] <OndraSter_> ports A - F
[17:52:13] <OndraSter_> but that is overkill :D
[17:53:15] <creep> a square centipede http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega1280.aspx
[17:53:35] <OndraSter_> but atmega1280 costs much more than any 128kB xmega :)
[17:54:15] <creep> hm, was cost a concern?
[17:54:24] <OndraSter_> it always is
[17:54:56] <creep> when i need something...
[17:55:15] <OndraSter_> it teaches you ;)
[17:55:17] <OndraSter_> for the future
[17:55:33] <creep> and i like things that last long
[17:55:50] <OndraSter_> even if $$ was not the concern - xmega contains much more peripherals
[17:55:57] <OndraSter_> (fast ADC, DAC, ..)
[17:56:00] <OndraSter_> USB
[17:56:08] <OndraSter_> superfast PWM
[17:56:16] <creep> hmhm how about the new stuff? atmega32
[17:56:28] <OndraSter_> "new" "atmega32"???
[17:56:34] <creep> http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/32-bitavruc3.aspx
[17:56:41] <OndraSter_> oh
[17:56:42] <OndraSter_> avr32
[17:56:46] <OndraSter_> that is not that new really
[17:56:50] <OndraSter_> it is different class
[17:57:03] <OndraSter_> they can run linux :)
[17:57:12] <OndraSter_> they are something like ARM7 class stuff
[17:57:13] <OndraSter_> or ARM9
[17:57:34] <creep> and these http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/arm/default.aspx
[17:57:35] <OndraSter_> (I think they can run linux, I remember seeing avr32 arch in the kernel)
[17:57:39] <creep> like some computer
[17:57:46] <creep> i guess i can install linux on them
[17:57:55] <OndraSter_> on cortex m?
[17:57:58] <OndraSter_> only uclinux
[17:58:01] <OndraSter_> since they do not have MMU
[17:58:07] <OndraSter_> avr32 does have
[17:58:11] <OndraSter_> (I think)
[17:58:39] <creep> so this would be cool with a capacitive keyboard instead of a notebook
[17:59:09] <creep> now a nice oled display is needed
[17:59:21] <OndraSter_> heh
[18:01:08] <creep> i wouldn't buy some mini tablet junk that cannot run linux
[18:02:42] <OndraSter_> if it runs android it runs linux
[18:05:57] <creep> you have tailbone and can be broken, questions? ;>> http://www.aurorahealthcare.org/yourhealth/healthgate/images/si1230.jpg http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070121185701AAXlZTq
[18:07:38] <OndraSter_> http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Atmel/AT32UC3A3128-ALUT/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv9Wvg%252bO4wHS61KcyaogIXX
[18:07:40] <OndraSter_> this chip
[18:07:42] <OndraSter_> is surprisingly cheap
[18:08:22] <creep> probably a defective better one downgraded and sold as "celeron" :)
[18:12:55] <OndraSter_> lol
[18:13:20] <OndraSter_> I mean, even ARM for this price wouldn't be much different, peripheral wise
[18:13:48] <OndraSter_> 126DMIPS @84MHz, NAND+MMC+SDRAM+... external buses
[18:14:07] <OndraSter_> USB High speed device and host
[18:14:21] <OndraSter_> I just don't see ethernet
[18:14:31] <OndraSter_> they had to trade it in for the NAND bus
[18:20:30] <Timelord83> think this circuit will work? http://www.ermicro.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/t13fan_04.jpg
[18:56:59] <diametric> oh hey its Timelord83
[18:57:32] <tandoori> Horologium: oops, i am sorry, I missed your comment, ill look into the atmega1284p
[19:01:19] <tandoori> nice! two programmable USART!
[19:02:28] <tandoori> 8.13...not bad. ill get two
[19:55:06] <creep> Timelord83<< just hook up some mosfet and a (1n5819 - optionally)
[22:17:44] <diametric> How important is having a filter cap on the AREF pin when reading the internal 1.1 reference and/or AVcc
[22:21:38] <Casper> depend on how noisy everything is and how stable you want your aref to be
[22:24:38] <diametric> +/- 200mV is fine.
[22:24:56] <diametric> eh I guess I should just try it and see
[22:27:55] <tzanger> diametric: just throw a 1/.1 cap on it and call it a day
[22:29:17] <diametric> that would require disassembly :(
[22:29:36] <tzanger> you'll know for next time :-)
[22:31:52] <tzanger> http://imgur.com/gallery/NPvL9
[22:31:56] <tzanger> was that posted here already?
[22:33:22] <tzanger> http://imgur.com/gallery/ujKpm
[22:33:24] <tzanger> haha comments
[22:38:36] <creep> a reference does not need filter capacitor
[22:39:42] <creep> if you wire it, the trace can pick up noise and if you don't integrate the result then it might be inaccurate
[22:42:01] <tzanger> depends on your layout
[22:42:46] <creep> i'd use a 100nf ceramic, and maybe a series inductance from power in
[22:43:22] <tzanger> that's only if you're supplying a reference voltage, not just adding some capacitance to the existing reference
[22:43:25] <creep> ( and a groundplane )
[22:44:18] <creep> i remember avcc is separate on atmega
[22:55:19] <tzanger> yep
[23:21:40] <tzanger> http://imgur.com/gallery/b91Xv
[23:21:41] <tzanger> ok that made me lol
[23:23:11] <Casper> hehe
[23:23:38] <Casper> http://imageshack.us/a/img594/8971/photonnj.jpg ← what about that parking job?
[23:23:45] <Casper> and yes, he's parked there
[23:24:01] <Casper> engine off, and nobody insise
[23:47:29] <diametric> great i've misplaced my ftdi
[23:47:37] <diametric> and i'm trying to debug values coming off my adc with a single LED
[23:47:39] <diametric> this is gonna be fun.