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[00:05:04] <Grievre> ugh why is all of this data in one long PDF file
[00:05:07] <Grievre> instead of browsable HTML
[00:05:10] <Grievre> or something like that
[00:05:46] <Grievre> oh hey when I open it in another PDF reader I get chapters, nice
[00:10:45] <Casper> now you know :D
[00:16:26] <rue_shop2> void bin2bcd(unsigned char in, unsigned char * out) {
[00:16:26] <rue_shop2>
[00:16:26] <rue_shop2> out[0] = out[1] = out[2] = 0;
[00:16:26] <rue_shop2>
[00:16:26] <rue_shop2> if (in>100) {
[00:16:27] <rue_shop2> out[2] = in/100;
[00:16:29] <rue_shop2> in -= out[2]*100;
[00:16:31] <rue_shop2> }
[00:16:33] <rue_shop2>
[00:16:35] <rue_shop2> if (in > 10) {
[00:16:37] <rue_shop2> out[1] = in/10;
[00:16:39] <rue_shop2> in -= out[1]*10;
[00:16:41] <rue_shop2> }
[00:16:43] <rue_shop2>
[00:16:45] <rue_shop2> out[0] = in;
[00:16:47] <rue_shop2> }
[00:16:49] <rue_shop2> unsigned char decimal[3];
[00:16:51] <rue_shop2> bin2bcd(time.seconds, decimal);
[00:16:56] <rue_shop2> tuck it away, it could come in handy some day
[01:14:48] <MrCurious_> anyone here familiar with ADXL345
[03:52:23] <kulminaator1234> feeling like an idiot now
[03:53:41] <kulminaator1234> made by prototype board ... it appears to work fine electronically ... but i added a 2x3 header for programming ... and what i don't have in my drawer is a 2x3 female connector that i could use ...
[03:54:32] <kulminaator1234> so i cut 2 pieces , 3 pins each and jointed them together ... but this isn't smooth looking for my eye ...
[03:55:33] <kulminaator1234> and 1x6 would have wasted less space on the board too ... oh well ... next time ...
[04:35:28] <darkdaemon> hi :)
[04:45:02] <OndraSter_> hhi
[04:53:04] <darkdaemon> hows it going OndraSter_
[04:53:15] <OndraSter_> still in bed :D
[04:57:34] <sabesto> hm, isnt the new atmega RF chips supported by avr-libc?
[04:58:14] <darkdaemon> hehe nice
[04:58:50] <sabesto> ATmega128RFA1/256RFR2
[04:59:37] <OndraSter_> are they obtainable yet?
[05:00:22] <sabesto> yes
[05:00:43] <sabesto> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9734
[05:00:52] <sabesto> they even make a devboard
[05:01:16] <OndraSter_> oh nice
[05:01:23] <OndraSter_> but they won't be able to easily sell it outside the US
[05:01:28] <OndraSter_> because of the AES
[05:01:29] <OndraSter_> :P
[05:02:27] <sabesto> hm
[05:04:00] <sabesto> but it does seem like its only supported by IAR atm
[05:04:15] <sabesto> also the SDK is probably IAR only
[05:06:04] <sabesto> i cant afford that for hobby use, i asked them if they could give my ee student club a good deal on their compiler, think they sent an offer back. i checked the price and it was the full price
[05:06:21] <sabesto> great
[05:07:44] <specing> loll
[05:12:54] <OndraSter_> lol
[05:29:20] <specing> sabesto: just reject their offer
[05:29:46] <specing> if they care about having new potential users, they'll give it for free
[05:32:34] <sabesto> yeah, i dont understand their policy
[05:41:48] <specing> sabesto: maybe they are just checking if you are prepared to pay
[05:56:37] <GuShH> sabesto: reply back with a rickroll
[05:57:06] <GuShH> but pretend the link points to your project first
[06:25:16] <inflex> lo folks
[08:20:55] <kulminaa1or1234> yet another standard newbie question on avr ... did i understand the docs correctly that ckdiv8 is only necessary to run the chip at low voltage (or if you really want to run it slow)
[08:21:10] <Horologium> pretty much
[08:27:17] <Horologium> you can also change the cpu clock speed by playing with the clock prescaler register.
[08:27:27] <Horologium> dividing the main clock by up to 256.
[08:27:57] <specing> hmm
[08:28:01] <specing> 32k crystal
[08:28:04] <specing> + DIV8
[08:28:11] <specing> + prescale 256
[08:28:24] <specing> 16 Hz?
[08:28:52] <Horologium> the ckdiv8 fuse just sets the prescaler at reset time basically,,,so you can then change it at runtime.
[08:29:04] <specing> ah
[08:29:48] <Horologium> there are 4 bits in the prescaler register...
[08:29:49] <Horologium> The CKDIV8 Fuse determines the initial value of the CLKPS bits. If CKDIV8 is unprogrammed,
[08:29:49] <Horologium> the CLKPS bits will be reset to “0000”. If CKDIV8 is programmed, CLKPS bits are reset to
[08:29:49] <Horologium> “0011”, giving a division factor of 8 at start up.
[08:30:32] <Horologium> at least, this is the function on the atmega1284p....assuming it is same on other AVRs
[08:32:46] <Horologium> it is possible to put a higher speed clock feed to a chip than it can run at...then use the ckdiv8 fuse to cut it down to a speed the processor can run at when it starts up....then play with the clkps prescaler settings to change the cpu speed.
[08:33:54] <Horologium> start with 40MHz clock feed...divide by 8 at boot for 5MHz...then change prescaler at runtime to divide by 2 which sets the processor running at 20MHz...
[08:34:35] <Horologium> this would be useful if you were using a 40MHz oscillator feeding multiple devices that need 40MHz and the AVR that can't run that fast.
[08:36:21] <Horologium> which I'm doing with my bitbanged VGA....have a 40MHz oscillator feeding a flipflop which gives me 2 20MHz outputs to clock data out of serial srams to the video output...plus same clock feeds the AVR that can be used to write to the srams.
[09:26:58] <OndraSter_> wtf is going on
[09:27:01] <OndraSter_> it won't attach to USB at all
[09:27:05] <OndraSter_> (my device, that is)
[09:27:09] <OndraSter_> not a single setup packet is received
[09:27:20] <Tom_itx> u broke it
[09:27:33] <OndraSter_> before that it worked if I uploaded the code via PDI
[09:27:35] <OndraSter_> and resetted the chip via PDI
[09:27:40] <OndraSter_> but did not if I reset it via button
[09:27:44] <OndraSter_> now it does not work even via PDI?!
[09:27:45] <OndraSter_> wtf
[09:27:45] <OndraSter_> is
[09:27:46] <OndraSter_> going
[09:27:47] <OndraSter_> on!!
[09:29:44] <specing> he he he
[09:29:54] * specing hugs his cortex-m4f
[09:29:57] <OndraSter_> well
[09:29:59] <OndraSter_> it is my code
[09:30:02] <OndraSter_> atmel's code enumerates just fine
[09:30:14] <specing> I know that feeling
[09:30:34] <specing> Couldn't get UART working by fiddling with registers through GDB/JTAG :(
[09:31:02] <specing> all the registers have the same values as the official code, but it just doesen't work :(
[09:31:24] <OndraSter_> ha
[09:31:27] <OndraSter_> exactly my feeling :)
[09:31:32] <OndraSter_> s
[09:31:42] <specing> But I have JTAG and you don't!
[09:31:44] <specing> :)
[09:31:46] <OndraSter_> I do
[09:31:49] <OndraSter_> PDI = JTAG
[09:31:52] <OndraSter_> but on only two pins!
[09:31:57] <specing> eh
[09:32:07] <Steffanx> specing who needs JTAG when you have SWD
[09:32:09] <Steffanx> :P
[09:32:11] <OndraSter_> :D
[09:32:20] <OndraSter_> reset line as clock and one dedicated PDI pin for bi-directional "UART"
[09:32:34] <OndraSter_> PDI = bi-directional UART with two stop bits pretty much
[09:32:44] <OndraSter_> JTAG on AVRs has the same instruction set for debugging as PDI
[09:32:56] <OndraSter_> PDI = encapsulated JTAG... or the other way around?
[09:33:03] <OndraSter_> one is packing the other thing
[09:33:06] <Steffanx> it's somewhere in the datasheet :P
[09:33:10] <OndraSter_> it is not
[09:33:12] <OndraSter_> since it is proprietary
[09:33:15] <OndraSter_> :P
[09:33:27] <Steffanx> Yes, but that part is somewhere in the datasheet iirc
[09:33:39] <OndraSter_> the 2 pins with uart/2stop bits? yes, that is
[09:33:46] <Steffanx> It just says nothing about the actual commands
[09:33:47] <OndraSter_> since the "programming" part of PDI is open
[09:33:58] <specing> OndraSter_: but I have GDB and you don't!
[09:34:00] <OndraSter_> debugging is not documented outside atmel's labs
[09:34:03] <OndraSter_> specing, actually
[09:34:05] <OndraSter_> on linux
[09:34:07] <OndraSter_> you use gdb
[09:34:10] <OndraSter_> and even on windows :P
[09:34:13] <OndraSter_> it uses gdb internally
[09:37:03] <Steffanx> OndraSter_, PDI and JTAG both talk to the PDI controller. So i guess it's all some PDI stuff
[09:37:58] <OndraSter_> I can see PC sending some packets but the device isn't receiving them
[09:38:04] <OndraSter_> which seems like clock issue
[09:38:07] <OndraSter_> but the clocks are fine!
[09:40:04] <kulminaa1or1234> Horologium: thanks for the insight , i wasn't aware that it's "legal" to change it back to higher at runtime ... @ckdiv
[09:43:54] <OndraSter_> I see
[09:43:57] <OndraSter_> I think I know where is my problem,
[09:44:05] <OndraSter_> there are two calibration bytes for the clock or what
[09:44:12] <OndraSter_> and I am either reading them wrong or writing them wrong :)
[09:44:46] <OndraSter_> instead 0x0C7F I am writing there 0x4F9F
[09:46:20] <OndraSter_> I remember the atmel datasheet stating that the value is auto loaded upon startup
[09:46:27] <OndraSter_> I presume that it was fixed in the current datasheet's errata
[09:46:36] <OndraSter_> (the bloody datasheet is 27MB, who would want to download it all the time)
[09:47:36] <Tom_itx> someone wanting to fix their usb issues
[09:47:38] <Tom_itx> :)
[09:47:43] <OndraSter_> :D
[09:47:44] <kulminaa1or1234> "D
[09:49:47] <OndraSter_> oh
[09:49:48] <OndraSter_> there he is
[09:49:50] <OndraSter_> hello abcminiuser
[09:50:00] <OndraSter_> my device has just stopped reciving packets alltogether :D
[09:51:08] <OndraSter_> zomg the dragon is so... random
[09:51:18] <OndraSter_> it just fails to start sometimes :(
[09:51:20] <OndraSter_> I mean
[09:51:22] <OndraSter_> do anything!
[09:51:49] <OndraSter_> now it refuses to do anything :(
[09:52:03] <Tom_itx> you should walk away for a day or two
[09:52:09] <OndraSter_> I just did
[09:52:11] <OndraSter_> I just came back
[09:52:42] <abcminiuser> I just ate nearly a jar of Jalapenias
[09:52:49] <abcminiuser> And they were delicious
[09:53:03] <abcminiuser> I have lost control of my life.
[09:53:06] <Tom_itx> fire in the hole... take cover
[09:53:48] <theBear> hehe
[09:53:55] <Tom_itx> all over some Jalapenias?
[09:54:31] <abcminiuser> Living alone does strange things to a man
[09:54:34] <OndraSter_> I suppose I could reboot
[09:54:46] <OndraSter_> I thought you had a gf?
[09:54:51] <Tom_itx> abcminiuser what happened to the little lady?
[09:54:58] <OndraSter_> little?!
[09:55:22] <Tom_itx> more polite than saying mammoth
[09:55:38] <plentyx> What are you talking about, guys?
[09:55:45] <Tom_itx> life
[09:56:28] <OndraSter_> I like SSD
[09:56:32] <OndraSter_> rebooting in <30 seconds!
[09:56:44] <OndraSter_> (from which 12 takes BIOS to start booting)
[09:56:45] <plentyx> On windows?
[09:56:53] <OndraSter_> of course
[09:56:58] <OndraSter_> what did you think I was using? lol
[09:57:03] <specing> Coreboot with Linux payload + SSD == <5s boot
[09:57:10] <specing> beat that
[09:57:12] <Tom_itx> yeah, linux only takes 10-15
[09:57:15] <OndraSter_> well if you take *just* booting
[09:57:19] <OndraSter_> I am done in 12 seconds
[09:57:21] <plentyx> My linux mint starts in 3 seconds without bios
[09:57:36] <OndraSter_> but it takes 12 seconds before the motherboard actually realizes "hey, there is the UEFI file I should load and boot"
[09:57:37] <plentyx> on crucial M4 and Fx-8120
[09:57:47] <OndraSter_> (ok, not this one, this one takes only 5 seconds, but the other one takes 12 seconds)
[09:57:52] <OndraSter_> I have got crucial m4 too
[09:58:00] <abcminiuser_> So long distance for now
[09:58:13] <OndraSter_> "for now" = ?
[09:58:18] <OndraSter_> she didn't go with you?
[09:58:58] <abcminiuser_> She was here all last year
[09:59:09] <abcminiuser_> But she couldn't leave her job longer than that
[09:59:12] <OndraSter_> ah
[09:59:18] <abcminiuser_> I don't blame her, I'll be back eventually
[10:00:42] <Tom_itx> poor abcminiuser, no girl and crap interweb
[10:01:15] <plentyx> that's all because he lives on the moon
[10:01:24] <OndraSter_> haha
[10:07:23] <OndraSter_> abcminiuser_, I don't get it. I have got the *same* stuff in all the registers as atmel's usb code
[10:07:25] <OndraSter_> but it does not work
[10:07:31] <OndraSter_> all I receive are few resets of the bus
[10:07:42] <OndraSter_> ARRRRRRGH
[10:07:46] <OndraSter_> it worked few days ago
[10:07:47] <OndraSter_> .. partially
[10:09:20] <plentyx> That's all because you are using windows.
[10:09:42] <OndraSter_> ..
[10:11:11] <specing> yeah
[10:11:23] <specing> when are you going to switch to the dark side, OndraSter_ ?
[10:12:22] <OndraSter_> which one do you mean?
[10:12:24] <OndraSter_> I know of many dark sides
[10:12:50] <plentyx> when microsoft will initiate "pay per boot" license
[10:12:53] <specing> the Unix one
[10:13:21] <specing> We are in year 43
[10:13:33] <specing> 42 Years of UNIX
[10:13:39] <specing> :)
[10:16:58] <hetii> hi :)
[10:17:44] <hetii> Can i simple use n-mosfet instead p-mosfet and put my load between source and ground instead dren ?
[10:18:21] <plentyx> Almost no
[10:19:20] <plentyx> It depends on application
[10:22:27] <hetii> ok its simple application, i will drive it from com port from pc, but the signal need to be negative first cause on -12 or 0V it need to be open (when i turn on pc don`t have +12v at any pin) and then in output i need to have positive voltage cause on the box have negative.
[10:23:58] <plentyx> I can't imagine that. It's too hard question for Sunday afternoon.
[10:24:10] <hetii> hmm
[10:24:50] <hetii> ok will buid schematic.
[10:25:00] <hetii> one moment...
[10:36:03] <Horologium> OndraSter_, get the techlib dvd
[10:36:32] <OndraSter_> :P
[10:36:37] <OndraSter_> but if they update the datasheet
[10:36:39] <OndraSter_> will they send me new DVD?
[10:36:46] <OndraSter_> for free?
[10:36:49] <Horologium> you download it.
[10:36:52] <Horologium> it is only 6.7GB
[10:36:53] <OndraSter_> sure I can download 27MB file in < 30 seconds
[10:36:56] <OndraSter_> ohh lol
[10:36:57] <Horologium> http://www.atmel.no/techlib/
[10:37:19] <Horologium> grabbing the latest version myself right now.
[10:37:26] <Tom_itx> makes more sense to dl the dvd every update
[10:38:24] <OndraSter_> I suppose so
[10:38:33] <OndraSter_> and then burn it
[10:39:01] <Horologium> I get it downloaded once a quarter or so.
[10:39:09] <Horologium> have 5 years of techlib disks here.
[10:39:11] <OndraSter_> eh
[10:39:24] <OndraSter_> that is 20 copies, each 6GB in avg let's say. That is 120GB..
[10:39:26] <OndraSter_> too much
[10:39:45] <Horologium> not on the puter...have them burned off onto disk.
[10:40:03] <OndraSter_> well
[10:40:06] <OndraSter_> I would have got one major issue with it
[10:40:07] <Horologium> 5 hours at current download speed here.
[10:40:10] <OndraSter_> my PC hasn't got any optical drive
[10:40:21] <Tom_itx> floppy?
[10:40:24] <Horologium> I only keep old ones because I'm a packrat.
[10:40:35] <Tom_itx> save to floppies
[10:40:47] <Horologium> only if I can get the floppies they used to use in airwolf..
[10:40:56] <Horologium> 10 minutes of video and audio on a 5.25 inch floppy!
[10:41:06] <OndraSter_> yay
[10:41:08] <Horologium> along with maps and stuff too.
[10:41:09] <OndraSter_> the old ones!
[10:41:11] <OndraSter_> 360K ones
[10:41:19] <Tom_itx> 180 single sided
[10:41:24] <OndraSter_> :)
[10:41:26] <OndraSter_> 8" floppies!
[10:41:27] <OndraSter_> 80K
[10:41:30] <Horologium> they must have had some serious video compression back then.
[10:41:37] <OndraSter_> what has happened to it I wonder
[10:41:40] <OndraSter_> would be DA BOMB nowadays
[10:41:43] <OndraSter_> with current tech
[10:42:10] <Tom_itx> video was cga not HD
[10:42:13] <Horologium> I recently helped someone connect an 8 inch floppy drive to a PC,,,via an AVR and serial port...to read some old archival data.
[10:42:14] <theBear> modern programmers never had to achieve stuff like that, makes them lazy and complacent and inefficient
[10:42:31] <Horologium> anyone else here ever watch airwolf?
[10:42:40] <Tom_itx> not admittedly
[10:42:42] <Horologium> they would get their orders on floppy and play them on the computer.
[10:43:19] <theBear> heh yeah
[10:43:22] <Horologium> full audio and video and pictures and maps and everything.
[10:44:04] <theBear> and gadget had exploding paper, and mi had exploding tapes ! amazing !
[10:44:08] <theBear> or was that bond ?
[10:44:12] <theBear> either way, awesome
[10:44:17] <OndraSter_> lol
[10:44:24] <Tom_itx> phospor
[10:44:29] <theBear> that's what we need to get our best scientists working on
[10:44:42] <theBear> Tom_itx, but then we'd need airproof envelopes !
[10:44:55] * theBear picks up the red phone
[10:45:05] <theBear> "scientists, ASSEMBLE !"
[10:45:19] <theBear> even the finest doctors of military science cannot explain it
[10:45:24] <Horologium> mission impossible...pre-tommyboy cruise.
[10:45:40] <theBear> well obviously
[10:46:15] <theBear> accidentally got the new version of conan last week... wasn't bad, but i was disappointed halfway thru when i noticed he wasn't gonna grow up again and become the governator
[10:46:17] <Horologium> although, in the first MI movie, the exploding gum was interesting tech.
[10:46:28] <Horologium> hehe.
[10:46:31] <Horologium> haven't seen the new one.
[10:46:52] <Horologium> watched the original about a month ago.
[10:47:03] <theBear> meh, haven't got around to putting my clean sheets on after a week (summer here, you don't get 'into' bed) but i can't bear to do this to my doona cover, i'm havin a quick shower
[10:47:23] <Horologium> gonna have to acquire some good classic movies for two weekends from now...wifey is going to visit friend for the weekend and do crafty-sew things.
[10:48:11] <theBear> wish i had a wife, wouldn't have to watch so many damned classic movies <grin>
[10:48:36] <hetii> ok here is what i plan:
http://i45.tinypic.com/c6mww.jpg
[10:51:05] <OndraSter_> diodes!
[10:51:53] <OndraSter_> I bet that if I bring laptop it will enumerate there just fine
[10:59:57] <theBear> heh, got enough whitespace there ?
[11:00:08] <hetii> OndraSter_: it was for me about diodes ?
[11:02:08] <Tom_itx> why rs232?
[11:02:34] <Tom_itx> it's a data stream
[11:02:38] <OndraSter_> yes
[11:02:48] <OndraSter_> theBear, it does not work on my laptop either!
[11:02:54] <OndraSter_> which means that there is something really wrong
[11:02:57] <Tom_itx> you fubbered it up
[11:02:59] <OndraSter_> bloody clock system
[11:03:04] <OndraSter_> it is so complex
[11:03:06] <OndraSter_> it allows so many options!
[11:03:08] <OndraSter_> :P
[11:03:14] * Tom_itx feels OndraSter_ loves xmegas atm
[11:03:19] <theBear> OndraSter_, tbh, i don't remember what you are talking about
[11:03:19] <OndraSter_> :D
[11:03:22] <OndraSter_> I love xmegas
[11:03:25] <OndraSter_> I don't love USB
[11:03:32] <hetii> Tom_itx: cause i have one empty slot on my mainboard, I know i could use avr and v-usb to control it but in this case i want to keep that simple
[11:05:02] <Tom_itx> how do you plan to convert one data stream into 2?
[11:05:06] <OndraSter_> those X1 are ... RTS?
[11:05:07] <OndraSter_> DTR
[11:05:08] <OndraSter_> and others?
[11:05:10] <OndraSter_> I presume
[11:14:55] <OndraSter_> what's up with DFLL's CALA and CALB registers?
[11:15:02] <OndraSter_> on atmel's code they always read 0x28
[11:15:08] <OndraSter_> on my code they always read something random
[11:15:50] <hetii> ok did my schemat is ok or do i add something instead ?
[11:18:27] <OndraSter_> <OndraSter_> diodes!
[11:18:50] <OndraSter_> also check the P/N mosfets
[11:18:53] <OndraSter_> (low/high side)
[11:20:18] <hetii> irf540 have already one in his structure
[11:21:07] <OndraSter_> not these diodes
[11:21:30] <OndraSter_> don't always expect the builtin securities to always work btw
[11:22:16] <hetii> but you talk about diodes that will be in parraler with load to protect mosfet again esd from load ?
[11:24:28] <OndraSter_> I am talking about the coils giving reverse current when they shut down
[11:25:42] <hetii> ok something more then diodes ?
[11:26:08] <Tom_itx> sorta like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIkNY5xjy5k
[11:26:55] <hetii> hehe :)
[11:27:18] <hetii> where i found such diode that will survive it :)
[11:32:30] <OndraSter_> nice Tom_itx
[11:32:34] <OndraSter_> I have just noticed one thing
[11:32:48] <OndraSter_> I think the memory ptr to the structure for endpoint setup is... off by one byte
[11:33:05] <OndraSter_> I somewhat forgot that RAM is not word aligned always..
[11:40:15] <OndraSter_> gcc! Y U IGNORE __attribute__((__aligned__(4)))
[11:40:43] <specing> ((align(4)))
[11:40:51] <OndraSter_> I copied it from atmel's code
[11:41:14] <specing> lol
[11:41:53] <Tom_itx> atmel doesn't use gcc
[11:42:06] <OndraSter_> well I am compiling their code with atmel studio
[11:42:08] <OndraSter_> and it works
[11:42:10] <OndraSter_> and they use gcc
[11:42:12] <OndraSter_> and IAR
[11:42:13] <Tom_itx> at least not until as of late
[11:43:05] <OndraSter_> oh god
[11:43:06] <OndraSter_> YES IT WORKS
[11:43:17] <OndraSter_> lol
[11:43:19] <OndraSter_> epic fail :(
[11:43:20] <OndraSter_> on my side
[11:43:59] <Tom_itx> do tell
[11:44:04] <OndraSter_> well obviously
[11:44:05] <OndraSter_> this.
[11:44:16] <OndraSter_> the usb data structure was not word aligned
[11:44:18] <OndraSter_> which it has to be
[11:44:23] <OndraSter_> (for reasons unknown to humanity)
[11:44:43] <OndraSter_> so if it was on 0x26C9, I set it to that, but the register saved only 0x26C8...
[11:44:48] <Tom_itx> to weed out the weak
[11:44:50] <OndraSter_> thus it didn't read properly the endpoint0 configuration
[11:45:03] <OndraSter_> and it thought that ep0 was disabled :)
[11:45:20] <Tom_itx> so just rewrite it all in asm
[11:45:24] <OndraSter_> yeah
[11:45:30] <Tom_itx> then no worries with gcc
[11:45:33] <OndraSter_> yep
[11:45:39] <OndraSter_> I <3 asm for its simplicity really
[11:45:50] <Tom_itx> it would be smaller code
[11:45:50] <OndraSter_> I am tempted to write my own asm with C-like syntax
[11:45:53] <OndraSter_> so you can do conditions etc
[11:46:15] <OndraSter_> niceee
[11:46:18] <OndraSter_> it works even after reset
[11:46:34] <OndraSter_> shot of whiskey on that!
[11:46:43] <OndraSter_> now just the CDC rx/tx
[11:47:09] <Horologium> the hardware probably reads 16 bits at a time, needing the data to be word aligned.
[11:47:25] <OndraSter_> doubt it
[11:47:28] <OndraSter_> ctrl register is only 8 bits
[11:47:31] <OndraSter_> status reg too
[11:47:40] <OndraSter_> only the data pointers and cnt register are 16bit
[11:47:51] <OndraSter_> it is probably doing the DMA with 16bits
[11:47:52] <OndraSter_> makes sense
[11:48:06] <OndraSter_> but why on earth is it on A1U chips bugged that it has to be 16byte aligned instead of 16bits... :)
[11:48:57] <OndraSter_> mostly when the USB modules should be identical
[11:49:00] <OndraSter_> how could they make the same mistake
[11:49:04] <OndraSter_> it is the same silicon rev I think
[11:49:12] <OndraSter_> (compared to a3u/a4u chips)
[11:50:59] <OndraSter_> I should start "Ondra's facepalm blog"
[11:51:07] <OndraSter_> with these issues
[11:53:39] <OndraSter_> I do wonder if there is any easy way how to force MS to use the name of the device as reported, instead of the one from the inf
[11:57:15] <hetii> not good: (
[11:57:57] <hetii> i conect my load and in few second mosfet is so hot that i must it switch off
[11:59:25] <OndraSter_> well
[11:59:34] <OndraSter_> what voltage is on the D?
[12:00:39] <hetii> no clue but i connect Amepr metter and it show that in peak i got 4.2A and after that i got 3.6~3.7A
[12:01:49] <OndraSter_> huh
[12:01:50] <OndraSter_> ...
[12:01:55] <OndraSter_> what is the INPUT voltage?
[12:02:19] <OndraSter_> aren't you reversing the mosfet?
[12:02:25] <OndraSter_> wait
[12:02:28] <OndraSter_> how did you connect the diode?
[12:02:56] <hetii> i try drive mosfet by two way, one is by bc557 as it us show in my schemat and in second way by connecting it directly to +12v
[12:03:03] <hetii> in both case the result is the same
[12:03:10] <_BJFreeman> hetii if the mosfet is not full on then it will generate a lot of heat
[12:03:49] <hetii> yep but if i connect it directly to +12v then it should be opened as i suppose ?
[12:03:55] <_BJFreeman> you must reach Rd(on) in the spec sheet
[12:04:33] <OndraSter_> 3.7A is A LOT
[12:04:34] <OndraSter_> for a coil
[12:04:42] <OndraSter_> in the relay
[12:04:54] <hetii> i don`t drive relay
[12:05:02] <hetii> i drive my lcd screen and lamp
[12:05:06] <_BJFreeman> depends on the size of the relay
[12:05:07] <OndraSter_> oh
[12:05:49] <_BJFreeman> what size lcd
[12:06:11] <_BJFreeman> what wattage lamp
[12:06:11] <hetii> 22"
[12:06:25] <hetii> lamp maybe 20W
[12:06:35] <_BJFreeman> ah that fits then
[12:07:20] <hetii> TYPICAL RDS(on) = 0.055Ω
[12:07:55] <_BJFreeman> and the VGS for RDS(on)
[12:09:03] <hetii> test condition: VDS = VGS ID = 250 μA typ: 3V
[12:09:56] <hetii> VGS=10V ID=11A
[12:10:37] <_BJFreeman> so you can see that the max power disapated @12volts is 60 milliwatts
[12:13:20] <_BJFreeman> barley enough to get the device warm
[12:13:35] <hetii> here is the pdf of my mosfet
http://tinyurl.com/anwxdw5
[12:13:44] <hetii> so where is the problem ?
[12:14:04] <_BJFreeman> check the voltage at the gate
[12:14:12] <hetii> could it be in that i put the load into source ?
[12:14:14] <hetii> ok
[12:14:34] <_BJFreeman> see if it is 3v
[12:15:06] <hetii> if i connect it directly to 12v then its 12 :)
[12:15:45] <_BJFreeman> yes I use and opto isolater that feeds the gate from the source voltage
[12:16:49] <_BJFreeman> have to have a pulldown resister of about 10K to turn it off completely
[12:17:08] <_BJFreeman> from gate to drain
[12:18:17] <hetii> ok first i will check voltage from g and S
[12:23:29] <hetii> ok i check it and its 4.5v
[12:24:12] <hetii> and the reason is in that i put load beetwen source so what i can do in such case ?
[12:29:30] <_BJFreeman> ok if you take off from between the load and Source of the mosfet it will vary the VGS
[12:29:55] <_BJFreeman> so you want to take off from the Source Voltage that the load is connected to
[12:34:01] <hetii> ok seams that i have no luck cause the load in source there make that it works wrong and in the other hand i cannot connect it in another way because on pc box i have (-) so need switch by (+)
[12:35:08] <hetii> so i need use P-mosfet that i don`t have any ....
[12:35:29] <_BJFreeman> an optoisolater uses a led to activate the photo transister
[12:35:51] <_BJFreeman> you can source or sink the led
[12:36:23] <_BJFreeman> the transitor is then connected from the voltage source to the gate
[12:37:15] <_BJFreeman> therefore the mosfet is isolated from the control circuit
[12:39:54] <hetii> so in another word, if i will now connect gate to source then my mosfet should be full opened ?
[12:43:23] <_BJFreeman> as a general statement no, in this case yes
[12:44:56] <hetii> ups .... small accident :)
[12:46:20] <hetii> ok but i did as i wrote so i connect source to gate and it don`t open at all so don`t know what you mean with this photo transistor ...
[12:49:18] <_BJFreeman> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/17116/how-to-drive-a-mosfet-with-an-optocoupler
[12:51:47] <hetii> ok but the load is there in between drain not source
[12:54:35] <hetii> i found such topic
http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?topic=61602.0
[12:59:39] <_BJFreeman> glad you got a solution
[13:04:09] <hetii> not realy ....
[13:04:35] <hetii> i suppose it require a pulsed input to keep it turned on
[13:15:14] <hetii> as far as i read my problem is much more complex that i thought :)
[13:15:29] <_BJFreeman> I am sorry I got drain and source reversed however using the + as a refernce the circuit I showed you is the same as the test case in your data sheet
[13:16:48] <_BJFreeman> to keep it on you need constant voltage at the gate
[13:17:07] <iSaleK[m]> Are there any good avr apps for android? I need some recommendations :)
[13:19:34] <Horologium> you could probably build avr-gcc and all for android
[13:20:00] <Horologium> avrdude might be a problem but not unsolvable.
[13:22:26] <iSaleK[m]> No, I mean like avr simulator, tools and etc for android? To calculate baud, timers, see mcu specifications and etc...
[13:23:15] <iSaleK[m]> There is some very good app for pic where you can search mcus by family, memory, interfaces, speed and etc.
[13:28:25] <Casper> atmel have a parametric table
[13:30:43] <iSaleK[m]> I know, that's nice but it would be nice to have an app to view and filter mcus offline... :)
[13:32:48] <Horologium> download the table as an excel spreadsheet and open it in your favorite excel app for android.
[13:32:53] <dunz0r> iSaleK[m]: I looked for it too, I'm getting a new android phone soon. Might develop an app for it even :)
[13:33:01] <dunz0r> Since I also would like an app that does that
[13:35:08] <hetii> _BJFreeman: i found also this:
http://www.innovatia.com/Design_Center/High-Side%20Drivers.htm
[13:35:31] <hetii> But as i suppose the VGH must still be higher then Vg ?
[13:35:42] <creep> hetii<< lol
[13:35:46] <hetii> ?
[13:36:02] <hetii> what so funny ?
[13:36:50] <creep> mosfet needs drive voltage relative to source
[13:37:12] <creep> you drive it with drain and it will dissipate 5-7V * 5A for you
[13:37:52] <creep> also if you want large currents and low voltage get a low voltage mosfet like irfz42-48
[13:38:15] <creep> that can switch 10A without heat-sink and without a relay
[13:39:12] <creep> and put 1-10k resistor between source and gate to turn it OFF
[13:39:17] <iSaleK[m]> dunz0r Well it would be really nice if Atmel would create an android app for their mcus :)
[13:39:21] <hetii> you see all point is that i need use my IRF540 mosfet and need had positive as an output. so as far as i read only by bootstrap i can do that ...
[13:40:40] <hetii> creep: but i don`t use pwm or whatever so on my case i have trouble if i try open it not turn it off
[13:40:47] <creep> hetii<< well yes, like double up the 12V and drive the gate with taht
[13:41:25] <creep> hetii<< no problem, you need that resistor to turn it off anyway, at least a 100k one, because the fet will stay on otherwise
[13:41:32] <tzanger> iSaleK[m]: that's what digikey's app is for :-)
[13:42:46] <creep> also note maximum VGS voltage allowed for mosfet
[13:43:32] <hetii> from sheet it is max ± 20 V
[13:43:50] <creep> yes, so if you go over that it will die
[13:45:23] <tzanger> careful with too high a resistor value; you'll start operating the fet in linear mode and it'll heat up more than you expect. you want to slam it on and off
[13:45:50] <hetii> ok so now i stuck. What i should do ? build it like here
http://www.innovatia.com/Design_Center/DC_images/Image3804.gif and add some additional power pump to have voltage that are over 12v ?
[13:46:29] <tzanger> lol @ 1nf in parallel with the 10k resistor to drive Q8
[13:47:03] <tzanger> that driver circuit gives the fet gate a decently fast switch time
[13:47:07] <creep> hetii<< yeas that is a correct schematic, and high voltage must be 20V or more for you
[13:47:37] <tzanger> you have either Q8 on and Q7 off or vice-versa; either way the FET gate is always being actively driven
[13:47:45] <creep> yeah that 1nf at Q8 is not needed
[13:48:07] <creep> d4 can be 4148 for low current
[13:48:08] <tzanger> not needed at R5 either
[13:48:22] <creep> c2 is not needed for simple switching
[13:48:25] <tzanger> the amount of "spike" that cap will give is really not going to help you at all
[13:49:06] <creep> it will, but not in this case
[13:49:48] <tzanger> creep: howso? the fet is a voltage controlled device; that gives you a nice little current spike at the start of the switch
[13:50:06] <hetii> ok at least will be nice on the end of the day if i could also use some PWM for my lamp, but its something that i can survive without
[13:50:23] <creep> tzanger<< mosfet has source-gate parasitic capacitance
[13:50:55] <creep> well also drain gate and drain source but that is not important really now
[13:51:14] <hetii> ok there are 3 schematic with one will be best for me ?
[13:51:23] <tzanger> creep: yes, but 1nF is not a lot of capacitance -- the current spike you get from it likely won't be around long enough to drain that capacitance and switch faster
[13:51:31] <tzanger> mind you I'd have to try it to see for sure, but 1nF is nothing
[13:52:14] <creep> tzanger<< from memory i can recall the mosfet gate source capacitance is around 600pf-1.5nf
[13:52:25] <tzanger> you've got big (enough) transisotrs there, use 10-100x that capacitance if you want to try to get rid of that charge
[13:52:37] <tzanger> creep: sounds like a marginal design then to use 1nF, but that's just me
[13:52:52] <creep> multiply that up to 100kHz pwm :)
[13:55:11] <creep> hetii<< how long you need to turn on the fet?
[13:55:51] <creep> for short periods only a diode and a capacitor is needed for bootstrapping
[13:56:55] <hetii> well i need control lcd screen and amplituner will be run almost all the time, the lamp also but for the lamp will be nice to have pwm
[13:57:31] <hetii> so general i can reduce amount of my mosfet and use relay for amplituner and lcd screen.
[13:58:54] <creep> ccfl lamps usually have dimmer input btw.
[13:59:27] <creep> mosfet is better than a relay
[13:59:59] <hetii> thats why i have 4 on my board but i dont expect that will had such huge trouble to drive it
[14:00:15] <creep> hetii<< you just didin't read what i wrote to you, get an irfz48 instead of the high voltage and large VDS_on resistance fet for 20V...
[14:01:07] <creep> lower voltage fets have lower on resistance, they dissipate much less.
[14:01:58] <hetii> and i wrote you that i don`t plan change my transistor. I know that your suggestion is better but now i have no such possibility to dismount my board without destroying it.
[14:04:08] <creep> wel ok then an irf540 will dissipate 1W for you at 3.6A
[14:04:17] <creep> without heat-sink its ok
[14:05:48] <creep> ( dissipation in a saturated mosfet is RDS_ON * ID^2 )
[14:07:05] <hetii> now my lamp and lcd are connected parallel so when i split them the ID will will be lower.
[14:07:37] <hetii> ok need to consider now how to get on easy way 20V from my pc...
[14:07:47] <creep> charge pump it up
[14:07:56] <creep> simplest way
[14:08:47] <creep> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva444/slva444.pdf
[14:09:35] <creep> an (7)555 timer 2 4148 diodes and 1 (2) capacitor is needed
[14:10:20] <hetii> ok have those elements
[14:10:22] <creep> it is a quickhack, so simple
[14:10:49] <hetii> 909ohm ?:)
[14:10:51] <hetii> hmm
[14:11:16] <creep> http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/voltage-doubler.html
[14:11:17] <hetii> i will put 1kohm and 10koh instead
[14:11:20] <creep> simple enough? :)
[14:11:33] <hetii> yes :)
[14:11:52] <creep> 100nf is nott needed
[14:12:06] <creep> 22u can be any value above 100nf
[14:12:10] <hetii> its not a problem for me to add it :)
[14:12:41] <creep> well it just makes the threshold and trigger voltage more stable
[14:13:26] <creep> ok now you made a professional high side gate driver then with DC bootstrap
[14:14:41] <hetii> ok i take my solder in hand and work on it
[14:14:56] <hetii> with one power pum did ? this from pdf or the second link ?
[14:23:11] <hetii> btw i will build this Inverting Direct-Coupled High-Side Driver cause have -12v or 0v as neutral state from my mainboard
[14:23:14] <creep> this is cool >
http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/voltage-doubler.html
[14:23:38] <hetii> ok
[14:32:13] <hetii> have one 555 in smd version
[14:46:18] <hetii> ok was wrong have no 555 but instead i found cd 4093
[14:47:11] <creep> haha well... you need 0.1mA
[14:47:32] <hetii> you mean it will be wrong ?
[14:47:43] <creep> no, it can do it
[14:48:03] <creep> (slow) no pwm
[14:49:10] <hetii> one moment but the pwm will be generated from com port so what this have to power supply ?
[14:49:28] <creep> and make the resistors larger to they don't pull down your bootstrap voltage
[14:50:45] <hetii> i found such doubler
http://zpostbox.ru/cheap_voltage_doubler.html
[14:50:49] <creep> its your hack, you should know...
[14:51:52] <tzanger> cheap voltage doubler? squarewave + inductor + standard capacitor/diode doubler circit?
[14:52:08] <tzanger> woot I called it. heh
[14:52:20] <tzanger> actually without the inductor
[14:56:02] <creep> http://zpostbox.ru/cheap_voltage_doubler.html < r1 is lold
[14:58:45] <creep> but dd1.4 gate2 should be connected to the other end of r1
[15:00:02] <creep> well i'd rather use other methods to assure both parallel gates switch connected together
[15:00:45] <hetii> ok i look what kind of chip i have at house and maybe i found some useful
[15:01:17] <hetii> i have few atiny :-)
[15:02:35] <creep> interesting
http://zpostbox.ru/capacitance_meter_based_on_logic_gates.html
[15:02:44] <tzanger> http://www.mixdown.ca/dump/warmup.png
[15:02:49] <tzanger> interesting "plateaus in temp at 16 and 17C, presumably energy is going into drying out the place?
[15:04:11] <tzanger> creep: I'd just use an I/O pin :-)
[15:05:13] <Tom_itx> max232 has voltage doublers as well
[15:05:26] <hetii> hmm
[15:05:29] <creep> haha never seen adc like this before
http://zpostbox.ru/simple_adc.html
[15:05:34] <Tom_itx> depending on the current you need
[15:06:06] <tzanger> old circuits are neat to look through
[15:06:17] <creep> Tom_itx<< i don't know, does he even use a microcontroller?
[15:06:19] <tzanger> I love looking through my dad's old QST and AARL handbooks from the 70s and 80s
[15:06:36] <OndraSter_> I have got here PDPsomething handbook
[15:06:54] <Tom_itx> OndraSter_, pm me the link to the usb spec sometime plz
[15:07:04] <hetii> hmm i found some sg3525
[15:07:14] <hetii> even 4 of them
[15:07:17] <tzanger> actually the best discovery was his 70s playboys
[15:07:28] <tzanger> loved those uh.. schematics.
[15:07:50] <OndraSter_> Tom_itx,
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb_20_110512.zip
[15:07:57] <Tom_itx> they're old ladies now
[15:08:09] <tzanger> Tom_itx: sure, but who's thinking that way
[15:08:20] <Tom_itx> OndraSter_, is that the atmel doc you were referring to?
[15:08:21] <creep> hahah adc using a 4011 ic
[15:08:31] <OndraSter_> no, that is the official USB spec
[15:08:32] <creep> 4 bit
[15:08:41] <tzanger> yeah it's all based on thresholding and relying on shottky inputs
[15:08:46] <tzanger> nice idea though
[15:08:46] <OndraSter_> atmel hasn't got any of their USB implementation docs
[15:08:48] <Tom_itx> the 74 meg one
[15:08:50] <tzanger> thinking out of the box
[15:08:51] <Tom_itx> or whatever
[15:08:52] <OndraSter_> no
[15:08:59] <OndraSter_> Xmega's datasheet is 27MB :)
[15:09:03] <OndraSter_> 27+10
[15:09:04] <creep> tzanger<< no that is not based on that
[15:09:06] <Tom_itx> maybe that was it
[15:09:15] <creep> 4011 is not schottky
[15:09:32] <creep> nor schmitt trigger
[15:09:33] <OndraSter_> hmm they have reduced it
[15:09:39] <tzanger> er schmitt is what I was thinking of
[15:09:43] <OndraSter_> they have updated it in december and november
[15:09:50] <OndraSter_> 27MB+10MB -> 11+10
[15:09:57] <tzanger> not using schmitt trigger for analog inputs = fun times with oscillation and current draw
[15:11:00] <creep> hahaha i'll build this for fun
http://zpostbox.ru/simple_adc_2.gif
[15:11:29] <creep> tzanger<< use HC type, ls is very old stuff
[15:11:44] <OndraSter_> LS is old transistor logic
[15:12:47] <creep> tzanger<< well the 4011 is used as analog amplifier in this sch
[15:25:09] <tzanger> I've seen unbuffered HC logic used with external resistors to "schmittify" them
[15:34:57] <OndraSter_> arrgh
[15:35:01] <OndraSter_> WHY YOU WORK ON LAPTOP JUST FINE
[15:35:04] <OndraSter_> but FAIL ON MY PC TERRIBLY
[15:35:31] <Tom_itx> did you try multiple ports?
[15:35:39] <OndraSter_> I don't have long enough cable
[15:35:45] <OndraSter_> but the atmel's code works on this port just fine
[15:42:05] <OndraSter_> chmpf on laptop it works brilliantly every single time
[15:42:11] <OndraSter_> on PC not at all :(
[15:42:16] <OndraSter_> not at all brilliantly
[15:44:24] <Tom_itx> not even a dull glow?
[15:44:32] <OndraSter_> nope
[15:44:49] <Tom_itx> clock speed different somehow?
[15:44:51] <OndraSter_> when I plugged it into the rear PC's USBs even the LED that should light up right at the beginning did not light up :P
[15:44:54] <OndraSter_> what clock speed?
[15:44:58] <Tom_itx> no idea
[15:44:59] <OndraSter_> I just replug the cable
[15:45:04] <OndraSter_> to laptop
[15:45:05] <OndraSter_> and it works
[15:45:09] <OndraSter_> the only differences:
[15:45:12] <OndraSter_> desktop Intel/W7 x64
[15:45:15] <OndraSter_> laptop AMD/W8 x64
[15:48:35] <Tom_itx> wish i could code c better i might offer some help
[15:48:44] <Tom_itx> you really need a usb sniffer
[15:48:52] <OndraSter_> hardware one
[15:48:55] <OndraSter_> software one won't do anything
[15:49:08] <Tom_itx> and they're about $400 and up
[15:49:23] <hetii> ok i search through all my stuff and find just cd 4093 or sg3525
[15:49:42] <OndraSter_> only $400?
[15:49:45] <OndraSter_> I was thinking $1k+ :)
[15:51:48] <Tom_itx> http://www.totalphase.com/products/beagle_usb12/
[15:52:27] <OndraSter_> does only low/full speed... if I were to buy such device I would want it to be able to sniff also high speed too
[15:52:40] <OndraSter_> $1400
[15:52:44] <OndraSter_> that's what I though
[15:53:07] <jadew> what's high speed?
[15:53:10] <jadew> 20Mb/s?
[15:53:12] <OndraSter_> 480Mbps
[15:53:15] <jadew> oh
[15:53:25] <OndraSter_> full = 12
[15:53:26] <jadew> yeah, that sounds expensive
[15:53:27] <OndraSter_> low = 1.5
[15:53:29] <jadew> yep
[15:53:37] <jadew> tought the next step was closer tho
[15:53:44] <OndraSter_> super = 3 or 6 or w/e is the USB3.0
[15:53:49] <jadew> so high speed is 3
[15:53:49] <jadew> yeah
[15:53:53] <jadew> oh wait
[15:53:57] <OndraSter_> 4-6
[15:53:58] <OndraSter_> .46
[15:53:59] <OndraSter_> 4.6
[15:54:00] <OndraSter_> I think
[15:54:01] <jadew> 3.0 is higher speed?
[15:54:05] <Tom_itx> but the code would be the same right?
[15:54:08] <Tom_itx> just faster?
[15:54:11] <OndraSter_> code?
[15:54:14] <OndraSter_> well
[15:54:20] <OndraSter_> sure xmega does only full speed
[15:54:31] <OndraSter_> but if I were to buy that, I would like it to be able to do even future stuff ;)
[15:54:45] <OndraSter_> would be nice if I could use my FPGA - afterall the GPIOs are rated to 600Mbps I think..
[15:54:58] <jadew> well, you could
[15:55:00] <OndraSter_> so 12MHz should be no problem
[15:55:03] <jadew> but you need some ram
[15:55:03] <OndraSter_> just needs usable software
[15:55:28] <jadew> what should the software output look like?
[15:56:00] <OndraSter_> two ways:
[15:56:05] <OndraSter_> a) descriptors and data transmissions
[15:56:07] <OndraSter_> b) raw data
[15:56:17] <OndraSter_> (aka SOF, framenum, ..)
[15:56:43] <jadew> so you're not interrested in the 101111011 part
[15:57:30] <jadew> if you have hardware that can sniff that, you can easily write some software that can present you the data
[15:57:42] <OndraSter_> yeah
[15:57:46] <OndraSter_> but the software is not that easy
[15:57:52] <OndraSter_> I am not interested in the 10111011 part, no
[15:57:57] <OndraSter_> I like it translated
[15:58:02] <OndraSter_> since it is packet oriented
[15:58:08] <jadew> it is if you're decoding the hardware layer from your hardware
[15:58:13] <OndraSter_> yeah
[15:58:17] <OndraSter_> but luckily I am not doing that
[15:58:28] <OndraSter_> plus it is not actually 1110001011
[15:58:32] <OndraSter_> ake jjkkkjjjkkjj
[15:58:35] <OndraSter_> but*
[15:58:50] <jadew> what do you mean?
[15:58:58] <OndraSter_> well USB doesn't have 1s and 0s
[15:59:01] <OndraSter_> it has got J and K states :)
[15:59:21] <jadew> what does that translates to in terms of voltage?
[15:59:32] <OndraSter_> well it is differential bus
[15:59:34] <jadew> cuz when I put my scope on the d- and d+ lines I get high and low :)
[15:59:40] <OndraSter_> well yeah
[15:59:45] <OndraSter_> but it is combined with the other data pin :P
[15:59:57] <jadew> meh, still 1 and 0 :P
[16:00:04] <OndraSter_> not really
[16:00:10] <OndraSter_> you don't see RESET condition et
[16:00:10] <OndraSter_> c
[16:00:34] <jadew> if it's not analog it's digital :P
[16:00:41] <jadew> either way you call it, it's still 1 and 0
[16:01:52] <OndraSter_> noIT'Snot
[16:01:55] <OndraSter_> :P
[16:02:04] <OndraSter_> ethernet is not 1 and 0 either
[16:02:10] <OndraSter_> (let alone if you have got manchester3 encoding)
[16:02:22] <OndraSter_> were 1 means "change" and 0 means "no change"
[16:02:26] <jadew> so probably the best way to analyze the bus for debugging purposes would be to actually sniff the levels and decode everything in software
[16:02:28] <OndraSter_> USB is the same, they just call it J and K
[16:02:32] <OndraSter_> yes
[16:02:33] <OndraSter_> it would
[16:02:41] <OndraSter_> but I shall leave that to other
[16:02:41] <OndraSter_> s
[16:02:44] <OndraSter_> or future me
[16:03:40] <jadew> the only problem I see with this is the fact that you want to sniff 480Mbps
[16:04:15] <jadew> to properly sniff that you need 5 times the frequency (to get good resolution)
[16:04:31] <OndraSter_> yep
[16:04:43] <OndraSter_> but if logic analyzer from the 80s could sample at 100MHz
[16:04:49] <OndraSter_> sampling at 2GHz nowadays shouldn't be that problematic
[16:05:04] <jadew> OndraSter_, it shouldn't, but I'm sure it's expensive
[16:05:25] <OndraSter_> of course it is
[16:05:30] <OndraSter_> you need seriously fast fpga
[16:05:40] <jadew> I bet that 100Mhz LA from the 80s had the price of a house and a nice car
[16:06:35] <jadew> I wonder who needed that tho
[16:06:46] <jadew> probably people building PCs
[16:06:57] <jadew> they were analyzing the COM port
[16:07:05] <OndraSter_> well my uncle was working at some telephone company
[16:07:07] <jadew> oh, and the data lines for HDDs and stuff
[16:07:19] <OndraSter_> (not sure if at that time though)
[16:07:26] <tzanger> OndraSter_: what are you trying to do?
[16:07:38] <jadew> tzanger, his own USB stack
[16:07:44] <OndraSter_> FIGURE OUT WHY IT DOES NOT WORK ON MY PC
[16:07:45] <OndraSter_> but works on my laptop
[16:08:12] <tzanger> OndraSter_: you're implementing a USB stack with generic I/O on a PC?
[16:08:16] <OndraSter_> no
[16:08:20] <OndraSter_> on an xmega
[16:08:24] <OndraSter_> with hardware USB
[16:08:28] <jadew> he's bitbanging it on tiny13
[16:08:30] <tzanger> oh and it works with the laptop but not PC
[16:08:51] <OndraSter_> yes tzanger
[16:08:53] <tzanger> guess off the top of my head: you're "close" to the spec but not close enough for the PC
[16:08:53] <OndraSter_> lol jadew
[16:09:06] <OndraSter_> tzanger, the chip does not seem to receive single packet from PC succesfuly
[16:09:19] <OndraSter_> all the registers that deal with clocks etc are the same as with the atmel's code
[16:09:29] <tzanger> OndraSter_: jadew's right... you'll want hardware for this, at a minimum a decent dual trace oscope
[16:09:37] <OndraSter_> digital one.
[16:09:39] <OndraSter_> preferably
[16:09:45] <OndraSter_> you cannot singleshot such stuff on analog lol
[16:09:50] <OndraSter_> (I tried)
[16:10:12] <tzanger> what are the specs on the crystal you're using on the xmega? is it within the 50ppm or whatever USB requires? Are you biasing it correctly (correct caps) ?
[16:10:22] <tzanger> OndraSter_: yes you can. you use a video camera :-)
[16:10:26] <tzanger> and yes, I have done that in the past
[16:10:26] <OndraSter_> heh
[16:10:36] <OndraSter_> there are no xtals
[16:10:45] <OndraSter_> since it is using internal RC with USB SOF tuning
[16:10:51] <OndraSter_> like I said
[16:10:52] <tzanger> you're doing this with RC? which xmega?
[16:10:53] <OndraSter_> it works with atmel code
[16:10:56] <OndraSter_> a4u
[16:10:59] <tzanger> oh wait
[16:11:07] <tzanger> you ahve software that works with this circuit, but your software does not?
[16:11:13] <OndraSter_> :(
[16:11:14] <OndraSter_> I
[16:11:15] <OndraSter_> am
[16:11:15] <Tom_itx> maybe packets are being sent before something is ready to get it
[16:11:15] <OndraSter_> writing
[16:11:17] <OndraSter_> xmega's
[16:11:18] <OndraSter_> USB
[16:11:18] <OndraSter_> code
[16:11:22] <tzanger> flash atmel -> works, flash yours -> doesn't work?
[16:11:25] <OndraSter_> yes
[16:11:26] <Tom_itx> ie the pc port is quicker on init than the lappy
[16:11:36] <tzanger> OndraSter_: pare it down to the bare minimum on both
[16:11:39] <OndraSter_> Tom_itx, nope, I am enabling USB and attaching it to the lines after all the init
[16:11:46] <OndraSter_> tzanger, it is not possible to do that with the atmel code
[16:11:48] <tzanger> or start replacing atmel's code blocks with yours until it fails, then you are in the right area
[16:11:50] <OndraSter_> thousands of lines of code
[16:11:54] <tzanger> OndraSter_: so?
[16:11:58] <OndraSter_> impossible too, they have it too modular.
[16:12:07] <OndraSter_> I checked all the registers. They are the same.
[16:12:25] <OndraSter_> all the DFLL calibrations, pad calibrations, everything
[16:12:34] <Tom_itx> you will find something misaligned
[16:12:37] <Tom_itx> i just know it
[16:12:43] <tzanger> not sure about atmel's implementation but registers may not be static -- as in you may need to write a value, wait, write another. static comparison won't cut it
[16:12:44] <OndraSter_> I wish I could dump all the thousand registers
[16:12:56] <OndraSter_> tzanger, actually no, they are all "static"
[16:13:05] <tzanger> of course he will. he has hardware that SW A works on but SW B does not; the problem is obviously in software :-)
[16:13:26] <Tom_itx> he found one earlier today
[16:13:27] <tzanger> OndraSter_: you must look at it objectively. this is a classical debug scenario
[16:13:34] <OndraSter_> I know how to debug
[16:13:37] <OndraSter_> but this is driving me nuts
[16:13:42] <OndraSter_> it is ALL the asme
[16:13:43] <OndraSter_> same*
[16:13:44] <tzanger> and thank god you have a software set that works, it makes your job a lot easier
[16:13:58] <tzanger> OndraSter_: be objective and logical. it *has* to be different
[16:14:01] <OndraSter_> Tom_itx, yeah, I introduced the bug yesterday or the day before :D
[16:14:03] <tzanger> if it was identical, it'd owrk
[16:14:05] <OndraSter_> tzanger, I know. But it is not.
[16:14:23] <OndraSter_> and I know that it is not anywhere in the actual code but in some register clocks stuff - because I do not even RECEIVE any packet
[16:14:32] <Tom_itx> i think dean used company hardware finally on his
[16:14:54] <OndraSter_> but there are so many registers on xmega!
[16:14:55] <Tom_itx> dean's won't work on xmega?
[16:15:13] <Tom_itx> maybe they over did it a bit
[16:15:18] <OndraSter_> well, they might. But you know, code size + licensing + I would have to bend it a lot
[16:15:25] <OndraSter_> and I think his code is not fully working on xmega yet
[16:15:34] <OndraSter_> xmega and mega differs completely in USB hardware
[16:15:46] <tzanger> I can't really offer much in the way of help other than moral support... we've all been there and once you find it it *will* be a facepalm moment but getting there is infuriating
[16:16:31] <OndraSter_> I had today facepalm moment when I found out the endpoint table was not aligned because GCC does not seem to enjoy the __aligned__ flag/attribute/whatever
[16:16:47] <OndraSter_> and by luck it was before that always on 16bit boundary
[16:16:52] <OndraSter_> until yesterday
[16:18:22] <tzanger> heh
[16:18:28] <tzanger> been there and done that, not an avr but still
[16:18:44] <tzanger> Every now and again I implement this construct and it seems to take me a while to catch it:
[16:18:56] <OndraSter_> hmm I think there is something wrong with my USB drivers on the PC -- even the atmel's code is now reporting different VID/PID than it should.
[16:19:03] <tzanger> if (foo = bar(baz, quux) < 0) {
[16:20:04] <OndraSter_> what we deal at school as a "sample code that you have to analyze and figure out what it does":
[16:20:05] <OndraSter_> int rec (int x, int n){
[16:20:06] <OndraSter_> int i, r=0;
[16:20:06] <OndraSter_> if(n < 1) return 1;
[16:20:06] <OndraSter_> for (i=0; i < x; i++)
[16:20:06] <OndraSter_> r += rec (x, n - 1);
[16:20:07] <OndraSter_> return r;
[16:20:09] <OndraSter_> }
[16:21:24] <tzanger> fuck recursion. :-)
[16:21:31] <slidercrank> recursion rules
[16:21:36] <jadew> x ^ n
[16:21:44] <tzanger> slidercrank: says the guy who's never worked in embedded space. :-p
[16:21:55] <OndraSter_> it is not about recursion
[16:22:02] <OndraSter_> it is about WTF IS THIS
[16:22:08] <OndraSter_> it should be doing... I forgot what
[16:22:09] <slidercrank> tzanger, well, the limit is space, I agree
[16:22:11] <tzanger> OndraSter_: sure, but implementing it recursively is bad
[16:22:16] <tzanger> well not bad
[16:22:16] <OndraSter_> yes
[16:22:28] <OndraSter_> it should do something like power of X on N
[16:22:29] <tzanger> but poor code, IMO, at least for the type of work I usually do :-)
[16:22:41] <OndraSter_> this is what we are being taught on
[16:22:44] <jadew> it's not x ^ n
[16:22:49] <OndraSter_> to be taught "how to analyze code"
[16:22:51] <jadew> it's some factorial shit
[16:23:04] <Tom_itx> OndraSter_, are you doing the usb for school credit?
[16:23:10] <OndraSter_> no
[16:23:14] <OndraSter_> for xboard
[16:23:17] <Tom_itx> yeah
[16:23:26] <Tom_itx> i didn't know if you'd get credit for it though
[16:23:47] <OndraSter_> haha it would be rather whole bachelor's project
[16:24:04] <Tom_itx> meh, weekly assignment
[16:24:05] <Tom_itx> :D
[16:24:17] <OndraSter_> yeah, our school would definitely be such of a kind
[16:24:21] <OndraSter_> but considering that this
http://clip2net.com/page/m12051/39579902
[16:24:23] <OndraSter_> is part of it too
[16:24:29] <OndraSter_> then I would dare to take this as a bachelor project
[16:24:50] <OndraSter_> (maybe even master's project!)
[16:25:05] <tzanger> -10 for using an IDE with autocomplete. :-)
[16:25:08] <OndraSter_> lol
[16:25:14] <OndraSter_> that IS my autocomplete
[16:25:15] <Tom_itx> that's arduino crap
[16:25:17] <OndraSter_> my syntax highlight
[16:25:23] <OndraSter_> arduino compatible, yes :P
[16:25:32] <OndraSter_> considering that somebody got master's degree on electrotechnic faculty with thesis on "dwarves"
[16:25:36] <OndraSter_> (dwarfs?)
[16:25:49] <OndraSter_> and now he works and searches for any signs of dwarves
[16:25:50] <Tom_itx> fs
[16:25:53] <OndraSter_> be it on stickers, anywhere
[16:26:02] <OndraSter_> and he got MASTER'S FOR THAT
[16:26:07] <OndraSter_> on ELECTRONIC FACULTY
[16:26:20] <OndraSter_> yeah.
[16:26:37] <jadew> well, maybe they're so small you can only observe them with an electronic microscope!
[16:26:44] <OndraSter_> :P
[16:30:18] * jadew is off to implement PDI
[16:30:34] <OndraSter_> enjoy
[16:30:36] <OndraSter_> on your analyzer?
[16:30:57] <jadew> nope, on my does it all tool, I want to program an xmega
[16:31:14] <OndraSter_> meh, that atmel code is working fine, Windows just from unknown place grabbed unknown driver which replaced somehow the reported VID/PID combo
[16:31:20] <jadew> I'm using the analyzer in serial mode tho, to look at the output
[16:31:26] <OndraSter_> I just uninstalled the device and it is reporting fine again
[16:31:36] <OndraSter_> jadew, for programming?
[16:31:40] <OndraSter_> just download the appnote :P
[16:31:43] <jadew> OndraSter_, yeah
[16:32:32] <jadew> I had to patch avrdude to allow PDI devices wrapped in the frame of the avrisp
[16:32:48] <jadew> since the new programmers (avrisp mk 2) use USB and they don't need an additional frame
[16:33:04] <jadew> however, my tool is basically communicating over a serial port and still needs it
[16:39:36] <OndraSter_> chmpf
[16:40:01] <OndraSter_> if the Dragon is connected (let it be running debug, opened Device Programming window etc) to the chip, it enumerates
[16:40:07] <OndraSter_> if I close it and there is no ongoing connection, it does not work
[16:40:08] <OndraSter_> wtf
[17:26:21] <creep> [221110] <tzanger> I've seen unbuffered HC logic used with external resistors to "schmittify" them - lold you lost me then
[17:31:04] <Grievre> creep: connecting a logic output to a CMOS logic input through a resistor introduces delay
[17:41:35] <jadew> OndraSter_, do you have win8 on your desktop?
[17:42:40] <iSaleK> dunz0r: I've found app "Findparts" on market but it isn't free :)
[17:42:41] <OndraSter_> no
[17:42:43] <OndraSter_> on my laptop
[17:42:55] <jadew> and how do you like it?
[17:43:18] <jadew> is it worth upgrading from windows 7?
[17:43:24] <Tom_itx> hell no
[17:43:36] <jadew> I want to build apps for windows phone 8 and the sdk requires win8 @ 64bits
[17:43:44] <jadew> Tom_itx, you have win8?
[17:43:48] <Tom_itx> unless you like someone else making choices for you
[17:43:51] <Tom_itx> nope
[17:43:58] <Tom_itx> i'm running xp pro still
[17:44:08] <jadew> that's what I have on my laptop
[17:44:22] <Tom_itx> i know someone using it and having driver issues though
[17:44:33] <jadew> yeah, that's expected
[17:44:38] <OndraSter_> well
[17:44:44] <OndraSter_> it is hard question
[17:44:45] <OndraSter_> try it out
[17:44:50] <OndraSter_> and either do or do not upgrade
[17:45:08] <OndraSter_> W8 is pretty much required for WP8 development (since the emulator runs in HyperV)
[17:45:14] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't upgrade an os unless you had a damn good reason for doing so
[17:45:22] <Tom_itx> if the current one is not getting it done for you
[17:45:24] <jadew> OndraSter_, yeah, I found that to be a really stupid mistake
[17:45:32] <OndraSter_> well
[17:45:38] <OndraSter_> should they make another emulator?
[17:45:38] <Tom_itx> all it does it give MS employees jobs
[17:45:43] <OndraSter_> but I couldn't get beyond that metro start screen really
[17:45:44] <jadew> Tom_itx, well, developing for wp8 is the reason
[17:45:49] <OndraSter_> that is why on desktop I kept 7
[17:45:50] <Tom_itx> then you should
[17:45:55] <Tom_itx> i have no need to
[17:46:02] <jadew> OndraSter_, yes and they should fire whoever said it's ok if the emulator only works on W8
[17:46:04] <Tom_itx> best of luck to you :D
[17:46:19] <jadew> :)
[17:46:20] <OndraSter_> jadew, feel free to get HyperV running on W7 :)
[17:46:31] <iSaleK> dunz0r: My bad, it's PartSeeker :)
[17:46:33] <jadew> OndraSter_, they didn't need HyperV
[17:46:41] <OndraSter_> sure they did not
[17:46:41] <jadew> all the other emulators so far didn't need that shit
[17:46:49] <OndraSter_> but since it is running RT kernel they would have to modify a lot
[17:46:53] <OndraSter_> in current WP7 emu
[17:46:56] <jadew> and an OS needs developer to back it up
[17:46:59] <OndraSter_> so they just used hyperv
[17:47:06] <jadew> cornering the developers into upgrading is not a great idea
[17:47:09] <OndraSter_> since it is regular RT kernel
[17:47:25] <OndraSter_> you can do iPhone apps on Mac OS X only too
[17:47:27] <OndraSter_> ;)
[17:47:37] <OndraSter_> android apps anywhere - but it sucks donkey ass the emulator
[17:47:40] <jadew> OndraSter_, yeah, up until now only apple used to pull this kind of shit
[17:47:43] <OndraSter_> no idea if yo ucan do WP8 apps on W7 without emu
[17:47:50] <jadew> I had to buy a mac to develop for iOS
[17:47:58] <OndraSter_> jadew, the backward compatibility has to end somewhere
[17:48:02] <OndraSter_> MS was the #1 in that
[17:48:06] <OndraSter_> but it was just slowing them down.
[17:48:07] * jadew actually has a brand new mac under his desk that he only used for an hour or so
[17:48:11] <OndraSter_> and keeping too much stuff in it
[17:48:22] <jadew> OndraSter_, this is not backward compatibility
[17:48:28] <OndraSter_> it is
[17:48:30] <jadew> it's making your SDK available to more people
[17:48:33] <OndraSter_> it is more future friendly to use hyperv
[17:48:35] <OndraSter_> well, yes
[17:48:58] <jadew> great, have a version with hyper-v
[17:49:01] <jadew> one with out!
[17:49:10] <OndraSter_> but developing is not a thing that regular BFU does really
[17:49:32] <OndraSter_> which brings me to major wtf - why does not WP8 support W8 RT apps development ?!
[17:49:37] <jadew> not all developers desire with all their haearts to develop for wp8
[17:49:40] <OndraSter_> I mean, HTML5+JS+CSS stuff
[17:49:42] <jadew> but if they could, maybe they would
[17:50:43] <OndraSter_> gn, test in 12 hours
[17:51:05] <jadew> night
[17:52:22] <jadew> OndraSter_, as a side note
[17:52:35] <jadew> the wp7.1 SDK has windows phone x64 emulator
[18:02:29] <Tom_itx> jadew do you desire that with all your heart??
[18:02:46] <jadew> obviously not
[18:02:53] <jadew> which is why it's pissing me off
[18:03:03] <jadew> cuz I would like to use the sdk for wp8, not wp7
[18:17:47] <creep> for those who would like to learn what a schmitt trigger is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmitt_trigger
[18:18:03] <creep> In electronics, a Schmitt trigger is a circuit with positive feedback and a loop gain greater than 1. The circuit is named a "trigger" because the output retains its value until the input changes sufficiently to trigger a change.
[18:18:38] <Tom_itx> then it pops
[18:18:49] <jadew> it's magic!
[18:28:37] <jadew> today's phones are awesome
[18:28:58] <jadew> if I could go in the past and I could take one thing with me, I'd take a phone
[18:29:11] <jadew> I could sell it for billions
[18:30:03] <jadew> like... if you'd go back in the 80's, you could buy a country or two with a mobile phone from today
[18:32:53] <Tom_itx> you couldn't use it
[18:32:59] <Tom_itx> no towers would support it yet
[18:33:08] <jadew> Tom_itx, doesn't matter, the technology would be worth it
[18:33:23] <jadew> it would be like alien technology
[18:33:25] <Tom_itx> you may be laughed at like lots of inventors
[18:33:27] <jadew> you could sell it for any price
[18:33:55] <jadew> you would just open it up and present to them the battery
[18:34:17] <jadew> they would get a bonner only by looking at that
[18:34:26] <jadew> and you'd be like "there's more where that came from"
[18:35:34] <jadew> if I went even further, like... 1000 years back, I'd take recipes for mcdonalds stuff and I'd open up a burger shop
[18:37:57] <jadew> people would tell stories about "that time when the king dropped a piece of his burger and I get to eat it"
[18:39:21] <jadew> (it would be a mistake to mention electricity in those days, it would get you labled as a sorcerer)
[18:42:30] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery
[18:42:35] <Tom_itx> maybe not
[18:43:01] <jadew> well, I guess it depends where you landed
[18:45:05] <jadew> altho, as it says on the page, I doubt they even knew that thing could produce electricity
[18:45:58] <creep> jadew<< are you african or indian ?
[18:46:12] <jadew> african-american indian
[18:46:31] <jadew> I'm not
[19:59:23] <creep> hahaha in cleanskin film the guy cuts off the suicide bomber's switch with a steel knife in one step, 2 wires, ... shorting them while cutting
[19:59:34] <creep> and it doesn't blow up
[20:09:36] <Grievre> maybe it's a non-conductive knife
[20:09:42] <Grievre> like it's made out of ceramic or something
[20:25:39] <r00t|home> creep: shouldn't suicide-bombers be using push-to-break switches for "safety" anyway?
[20:45:16] <Horologium> nono...got it all wrong
[20:45:43] <Horologium> should be deadman switch with resistor value so any change in resistance detonates.
[20:46:07] <Horologium> that way shorting or cutting sets it off
[21:07:35] <creep> actually deadman switch works by pushing, and holding the button, and it blows up after releasing
[21:08:05] <creep> but this is only professional terrorist bomb equipment
[21:09:55] <creep> Horologium<< you are mistaking this with some bomb circuit
[21:10:54] <creep> well, some security systems use doorswitches like you described for sensing door opening or motion
[21:22:38] <dssence> hi
[21:22:38] <tobbor> dssence! like, totally tell us about the project!
[21:22:45] <dssence> :)
[21:22:47] <dssence> Can an atmega8 get broken if you set fuses say using a BSD schematic, without using external supply.. I'm getting mismatch content.. but initially we setted fuses without a power supply.. or could the chip be defective?
[22:10:59] <Casper> dssence: the only thing that can be broken is a data corruption, just flash back with a proper supply and it will work
[22:11:00] <Casper> also
[22:11:18] <Casper> some parts are more sensitive than others about your crappy(?) programmer
[22:11:42] <Casper> so one programmer and part X may work, but part Y may never work reliably
[22:32:33] <Tom_itx> how can you save a file that has a cid descriptor number?
[22:32:58] <Tom_itx> windows won't let me save it from an email
[22:34:04] <dssence> hi Casp :) happy new year kind of delayed
[22:34:14] * dssence says hi to casper
[22:34:27] <Casper> o/
[22:34:43] <dssence> well thing is after my friend did the fuses bit change with the BSD lpt1 programmer
[22:34:52] <dssence> then we added proper supply 5volts dc
[22:35:05] <dssence> when we dumped the .hex with avdrude it said content mistmatch
[22:35:19] <dssence> we kept on trying with different pulse values .. but same thing
[22:35:59] <dssence> we had 2 atmegas.. we used the second one and it worked fine :) dumped the hex with no issues.. did a compare again and fine
[22:36:04] <dssence> but I want to recover the other atmega
[22:36:09] <dssence> any ideas what I could test?
[22:38:44] <Casper> 2 of the same model?
[22:39:09] <dssence> yup
[22:39:23] <dssence> I think it might got fucked up when he did the fuse change without supply
[22:39:24] <dssence> could it be?
[22:39:37] <dssence> but I tried changing the fuse values and they change..
[22:39:49] <dssence> used verbose mode on avrdude and I can change them.. problem is when I write
[22:40:02] <dssence> I was thinking on using another supply providing 5.5 instead of 5
[22:40:05] <dssence> but ..
[22:43:24] <Casper> no, but you could have messed the fuses and is now on a slower clock or something
[22:44:17] <dssence> but casp If I can change the fuses.. and leave them factory default .
[22:44:23] <dssence> they're as they were initially.
[22:50:51] <Casper> are they factory default right now?
[22:51:51] <dssence> mm well I was doing a project from raphael which was to make an SNES to USB with hid device.. and had to set up fuses as low c9 high 9f
[22:51:59] <dssence> so they're on 0xc9 and 0x9f
[22:52:14] <dssence> whatever I dump on it on flash gives content mismatch
[22:52:26] <dssence> it's with an external crsystal 12mhz
[22:52:47] <Casper> if you remove the xtal, does it still flash/read?
[22:52:52] <dssence> using vrdude -p m8 -P lpt1 -c bsd -Uflash:w:n.hex -B 0.5 <<=== -b 0.5 - 1 or whatever
[22:53:04] <dssence> honestly didn't try it
[22:53:12] <dssence> I have another couple crystals
[22:53:32] <dssence> but casp as you know I like to do debugging and all this stuff.
[22:53:43] <dssence> I could use the scope to check miso signals or any other outputs.
[22:53:44] <dssence> if you want
[22:53:59] <Casper> what I wonder is if you actually run off the crystal or not
[22:54:33] <dssence> well right now I finished the project which was this one
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/snes_nes_usb/index_en.php
[22:54:42] <dssence> but I dissasembled all the breadboard.
[22:54:48] <dssence> I would have to set it up again.
[22:54:50] <dssence> with the spare atmega
[22:55:02] <dssence> but I don't have any other 12mhz crystal
[22:55:05] <dssence> i have mm I think 14mhz.
[22:55:26] <dssence> I think there's no way to flash it on lpt without external crsytal using internal oscillator
[22:55:28] <Casper> is the programmer buffered or unbuffered?
[22:55:55] <dssence> programmer it's a simple BSD schematic on lpt no buffer just resistors pointing to signals on the atmega
[22:56:07] <Casper> that might actually be the issue
[22:56:17] <dssence> why , if it worked with the other one
[22:56:20] <dssence> flashed it sucesffuly.
[22:56:47] <Casper> might be borderline working... different batch can give different tolerances
[22:57:03] <dssence> well that was something I said to myself. maybe different batch..
[22:57:10] <dssence> and different tolernace to the voltage to flash
[22:57:21] <dssence> but to check if the chip it's ok
[22:57:21] <Casper> with unbuffered I got lots of issues
[22:57:32] <Casper> I ended up making a buffered one and all the issues went away
[22:57:36] <dssence> if It gets the signature it's fine cause it's detecting it, plus if it changes the fuses.
[22:57:38] <dssence> right?
[22:57:52] <Casper> in theory yes
[22:58:09] <dssence> dunno I was thinkging mayber some capacitance with the breadboard contacts.
[22:58:11] <dssence> but don't think so.
[22:58:15] <dssence> or mm
[22:58:19] <Casper> what I noticed is usually the longer the communication time, the most probable it is to fail
[22:58:21] <dssence> maybe the supply 5 volts it's not enoughj
[22:58:23] <dssence> on this batch
[22:58:35] <dssence> by longer com time what do you mean /
[22:58:44] <Casper> do you have a 5V or 3.3V parallel port?
[22:58:57] <dssence> well casp remember you helped me out way back with a cpld flahsing on ltp ?
[22:59:00] <dssence> we had to use diodes
[22:59:05] <dssence> for the xbox timing glitch
[22:59:11] <dssence> I think it's 3.3
[22:59:14] <Casper> so a 3.3V... really... go with a buffered one
[22:59:15] <dssence> cause it's an old laptop
[22:59:34] <dssence> but listen.. could it be this batch needs more voltage/
[22:59:35] <dssence> ?
[22:59:49] <dssence> honesdtly I just want to see if I can recover this chip so I can use it :D
[22:59:53] <Casper> more or less or more current...
[23:00:08] <Casper> or a better timing
[23:00:15] <dssence> well I could try with a 5.5 volts psu
[23:00:23] <dssence> what's the top most volt it accepts
[23:00:34] <dssence> but 5 just be enoufh
[23:01:14] <Casper> personally, I'ld try a lower
[23:01:26] <Casper> since you have a 3.3V parallel port
[23:01:43] <dssence> but casp lower wouldn't be just using the parallel port voltage/
[23:01:52] <dssence> that's why I used the external voltage supplied
[23:02:40] <Casper> the issue is that the parallel port can not give a stable voltage due to a low current capability
[23:02:53] <dssence> mm Ise..
[23:02:54] <Casper> heck... one laptop I checked was outputting 2.8V....
[23:02:54] <dssence> I see.
[23:02:58] <dssence> wops.
[23:03:06] <dssence> casp some kind of debugging I can check with the scope ?
[23:03:11] <dssence> might add in here
[23:03:27] <Casper> personally, I'ld just make a buffered programmer...
[23:03:39] <dssence> well i'd see if I can make one.. got a simple shematic ?
[23:04:23] <Casper> !avr
[23:04:28] <Casper> !thislog
[23:04:28] <tobbor> This one:
http://rueshouse.dyndns.org:82/~ircjunk/irclogs/html/%23avr-2013-01-07.html
[23:04:33] <Casper> let'S see...
[23:05:08] <dssence> heh what's that log
[23:05:20] <Casper> trying to figure out the page
[23:05:26] <dssence> aw :) heh no prob
[23:07:01] <Casper> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/avr/programmer/avrprog.pdf
[23:07:29] <dssence> awp :) I think I've seen that one
[23:07:35] <dssence> is iit east to find the buffer chip ?
[23:07:43] <dssence> on like a spare motherboard or any gadget junk
[23:08:03] <Casper> yes
[23:08:18] <dssence> where's like mostly easy to find ?
[23:08:21] <dssence> old hdd pcbs ?
[23:08:53] <Casper> I've seen it on some old MB
[23:09:02] <dssence> woops i think I might have one
[23:09:09] <dssence> I have an old dual pentium motherboard
[23:09:39] <dssence> that's mostly near close to some chipset in particular?
[23:09:53] <dssence> what's basically the buffer chip doing here/
[23:10:02] <dssence> instead of sending plain raw signals to the chip
[23:10:06] <dssence> I know it's buffering
[23:10:13] <dssence> but it's so it's not sending them so fast?
[23:10:16] <dssence> like being in sync ?
[23:10:24] <Casper> it basically reshape the signal
[23:10:30] <Casper> and current boost it
[23:10:34] <dssence> awp
[23:10:54] <Casper> if it get for example 2.3V it would output 5V
[23:11:20] <dssence> casp what's strange is that erase works fine
[23:11:26] <Casper> and since the input is low impedance, it do not load the pport, but it will be able to source like 20mA
[23:11:32] <Casper> the erase command is short
[23:12:01] <dssence> what I mean is is there anything I could plug the probes of the scope
[23:12:10] <dssence> to see if it's actually working fine
[23:12:10] <dssence> ?
[23:12:12] <dssence> while erasing
[23:12:15] <dssence> or changing fuses.
[23:12:51] <Casper> supply voltage, signal voltages and signal shape...
[23:13:03] <Casper> but it can be hard to figure out, specially if you do not have a DSO
[23:13:13] <dssence> well I have a digital scope
[23:13:19] <dssence> not a logic analyzer.
[23:14:02] <dssence> I wanted to buy a logic analyzer I thikn I will get the one from dangerious prototypes from seedstudio
[23:14:56] <dssence> leelo told me to get usbee or logic shrimp I think
[23:15:04] <dssence> I just want something userful but not expensive
[23:15:11] <dssence> but with the scope I can check at least these signals or not ?
[23:23:21] <Casper> yes
[23:23:25] <Casper> if it's a storage one
[23:23:56] <Casper> the signal is too fast to see if you don't have a storage one (i.e. just a burst of data)
