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[01:18:48] <inflex> nice, my boards are on their way... yaaay
[01:18:58] <inflex> by the time they get here I'll have gotten bored though I assume.
[06:49:58] <jadew> this is new, I'm afraid of clicking the "finish order" button, because I know that 2 minutes after I do that, I'll realize I forgot about something
[06:51:48] <specing> jadew: hahaha
[06:52:19] <jadew> it happens all the freaking time :)
[06:56:12] <jacekowski> you can always place another order
[06:56:31] <jadew> jacekowski, yeah, but you have to pay for shipping
[06:57:49] <jadew> would be cool if they would allow you to edit your order if it didn't get processed yet
[06:58:26] <jacekowski> that's why i love amazon with prime
[06:58:37] <jacekowski> i can have every single item as separate order
[06:59:00] <jadew> there's no shipping cost attached? (I never shopped on amazon)
[06:59:52] <jacekowski> not with prime
[07:00:02] <jacekowski> you pay £50/year or so
[07:00:19] <jacekowski> and you get free next day shipping on all items sold by amazon
[07:00:32] <jacekowski> or fullfiled by amazon
[07:00:36] <jadew> oh, that's nice
[07:01:19] <jacekowski> they do same thing in the US
[09:35:18] <BigHugeDog> jacekowski, jadew: no. In china, shipping is always free.
[09:35:28] <BigHugeDog> (I meant amazon.cn)
[09:36:19] <jadew> I wish I lived in shenzhen so I wouldn't have to order anything
[09:36:37] <jadew> just do the component shopping when I do my groceries
[09:37:11] <jadew> "hey hon, we need eggs, milk and we're out of BS170"
[09:38:54] <BigHugeDog> chips can be bought anywhere here.
[09:39:07] <BigHugeDog> what is the BS170?
[09:39:12] <BigHugeDog> I never heard that.
[09:39:12] <jadew> it's a transistor
[09:39:17] <BigHugeDog> OO
[09:39:29] <BigHugeDog> like 2Nxxxx
[09:39:35] <jadew> mosfet
[09:39:36] <jadew> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/BS/BS170.pdf
[09:39:41] <BigHugeDog> copy, got it.
[09:40:22] <BigHugeDog> Faire child BS170 / MMBF170 N-Channel Enhancement Mode Field Effect Transistor
[09:40:33] <BigHugeDog> N-MOS
[09:40:42] <jadew> where do you live?
[09:40:54] <BigHugeDog> Shandong
[09:40:54] <BigHugeDog> Shandong province
[09:40:54] <BigHugeDog> far from shenzhen
[09:41:20] <BigHugeDog> Around 20 hours to get there
[09:41:24] <BigHugeDog> (by car)
[09:41:40] <jadew> I see
[09:42:11] <jadew> I wonder if there's anything like dx.com but dedicated to components
[09:42:27] <BigHugeDog> dedicated to components?
[09:42:39] <BigHugeDog> I buy things from taobao.
[09:42:42] <jadew> yeah, like with chips and stuff instead of random garbage
[09:42:43] <BigHugeDog> (but taobao sells other things, too)
[09:42:59] <BigHugeDog> I don't know if there is one.
[09:43:03] <BigHugeDog> ask the channel.
[09:43:43] <jadew> let me ask google first :)
[09:43:58] <BigHugeDog> dudu
[09:44:03] <BigHugeDog> http://search8.taobao.com/search?spm=a230z.1.6.1.ExjAJJ&q=BS170&commend=all&style=grid&atype=b&filterFineness=2&ssid=s5-e&pid=mm_14507416_2297358_8935934&p4p_str=fp_midtop%3D10%26firstpage_pushleft%3D0&cps=yes&from=compass&cat=50043372&navlog=compass-1-c-50043372
[09:44:15] <BigHugeDog> N-MOSFET BS170 全新原装FAIRCHILD公司TO-92 0.5A60V 0.80
[09:44:19] <BigHugeDog> very chip
[09:44:25] <BigHugeDog> RMB 0.80 for one.
[09:44:36] <BigHugeDog> (around $0.1)
[09:44:47] <BigHugeDog> chip -> cheap
[09:44:48] <jadew> yeah, that's a good price
[09:45:06] <BigHugeDog> yes. things in china are cheap.
[09:45:15] <BigHugeDog> but girls are not.
[09:45:18] <jadew> can that site be switched to english?
[09:45:24] <BigHugeDog> No.
[09:45:30] <BigHugeDog> It's chinese only.
[09:45:37] <jadew> I see
[09:45:45] <jadew> do they ship overseas?
[09:45:53] <BigHugeDog> I don't think so.
[09:46:12] <BigHugeDog> shipping is expensive in china.
[09:46:20] <BigHugeDog> from shenzhen to shandong,
[09:46:22] <BigHugeDog> 1kg costs RMB 10
[09:46:33] <BigHugeDog> (around $1.5)
[09:46:33] <BigHugeDog> very expensive.
[09:46:40] <jadew> heh that's actually really cheap
[09:46:48] <BigHugeDog> No. it's not.
[09:46:57] <BigHugeDog> amazon.cn provides free shipping.
[09:47:17] <jadew> I pay about 10$ to get stuff delivered from the shop to my house (in the same city)
[09:48:04] <specing> yeah, thats cheap
[09:49:30] <specing> but I guess it is expensive if your wage equals $10 / week
[09:49:48] <BigHugeDog> jadew: you earn more than people here. so it's more money to deliver things to you.
[09:50:51] <jadew> yeah, I guess that's a valid point
[09:50:53] <BigHugeDog> the official China Post's fee for things per 1kg per 600km is RMB 1.5 (around $0.12), but it's very slow.
[09:51:31] <BigHugeDog> Not that's less, specing. the least money you got paid per month is at least RMB 1200 per month as per the laws.
[09:52:25] <BigHugeDog> 1200 can only deliver 120kg...
[09:52:27] <BigHugeDog> so it's expensive.
[09:52:49] <jadew> BigHugeDog, that's actually not that much different than the minimum wage in my country
[09:52:49] <specing> Thats 145 Euros minimum
[09:53:16] <BigHugeDog> OO
[09:53:28] <specing> minimum wage here is 700 Eur or so
[09:53:30] <BigHugeDog> 1450 Euros are around RMB 1450
[09:53:40] <specing> err
[09:53:52] <BigHugeDog> 145 Euros
[09:53:55] <BigHugeDog> typo
[09:54:35] <specing> ehm
[09:54:37] <BigHugeDog> 找到约 299,000 条结果 （用时 0.29 秒）
[09:54:38] <BigHugeDog> 搜索结果 145 欧元 = 1193.6371 人民币
[09:54:40] <BigHugeDog> not that much now.
[09:54:42] <BigHugeDog> only 1194
[09:55:11] <jadew> specing, where are you from?
[09:55:15] <specing> Slovenia
[09:56:15] <jadew> nice country
[09:56:26] <specing> we have nice politicians, too
[09:56:31] <specing> </sarcasm>
[09:56:49] <jadew> we all do
[09:56:55] <specing> :)
[09:57:21] <jadew> BigHugeDog, in my country (romania) the minimum wage is 1300 RMB
[10:00:34] <specing> BigHugeDog: How cheap are AVRs there?
[10:01:32] <jadew> specing, cheap:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=18244131845&ali_trackid=2:mm_14507416_2297358_8935934:1356536924_3k1_154958514
[10:02:51] <jadew> that's like $1.7
[10:03:05] <specing> that takes a while to load...
[10:03:23] <specing> Whats up with the chinese internet tubes?
[10:04:51] <jadew> the tubes that exit the country must be narrow
[10:06:18] <specing> still hasn't loaded
[10:06:34] <jadew> it says 11RMB
[10:06:35] <BigHugeDog> Hi, jadew, copy that information into my brain.
[10:06:35] <jadew> :)
[10:06:41] <specing> ok
[10:06:42] <BigHugeDog> O!
[10:06:46] <BigHugeDog> That's not cheap!!!!
[10:06:50] * specing kills the browser
[10:06:56] <BigHugeDog> A mega48 is around RMB 4 here
[10:06:58] <jadew> BigHugeDog, you can find cheapper?
[10:07:03] <jadew> neat
[10:07:15] <BigHugeDog> I buy avrs from mainly a shop called:
[10:07:18] <BigHugeDog> weaveshare
[10:07:22] <BigHugeDog> or waveshare?
[10:07:38] <BigHugeDog> I will show you where.
[10:08:07] <BigHugeDog> www.waveshare.net is their website (not their shop)
[10:08:26] <BigHugeDog> waveshare.taobao.com is their shop
[10:08:26] <BigHugeDog> but they are selling expensively.
[10:08:30] <BigHugeDog> but fast delivery
[10:11:20] <BigHugeDog> (It makes non-sense for you. You cannot buy outside)
[10:11:21] <BigHugeDog> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=15330627022&ali_trackid=2:mm_14507416_2297358_8935934:1356537426_3k7_1992635988
[10:11:21] <BigHugeDog> check this.
[10:11:22] <BigHugeDog> mega48, RMB 4
[10:11:22] <BigHugeDog> $0.63
[10:11:23] <BigHugeDog> 广东深圳|至 山东济南预计2天到达(约15小时内发货)快递:¥10.00
[10:11:24] <BigHugeDog> (translation:
[10:11:25] <BigHugeDog> guagndong shenzhen to shandong jinan, arrive in 2 days(est.), start delivering in 15 hours(est.), delivery fee, RMB 10
[10:11:26] <BigHugeDog> )
[10:11:57] <BigHugeDog> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.0.86.7b340Q&id=7713876395&
[10:12:04] <BigHugeDog> I use mega8 a lot.
[10:12:08] <BigHugeDog> and some mega48
[10:12:47] <jadew> I have to start learning chinese
[10:13:45] <BigHugeDog> STC here is cheap.
[10:13:49] <BigHugeDog> But not good quality.
[10:13:53] <jadew> BigHugeDog, you said the girls aren't cheap
[10:13:54] <BigHugeDog> (STC is a 8051 variant)
[10:13:59] <BigHugeDog> Yes.
[10:14:01] <jadew> so... how much are they? :D
[10:14:26] <BigHugeDog> My father paid RMB 50000 (yes, 50K!) for my webdding.
[10:14:34] <BigHugeDog> Very expensive.
[10:14:43] <jadew> ah... wedding
[10:14:53] <jadew> I was thinking more in terms of blow jobs and stuff :P
[10:15:06] <BigHugeDog> that's around $8000!
[10:15:13] <BigHugeDog> And that's wedding.
[10:15:27] <jadew> BigHugeDog, yeah, that sounds about right
[10:15:38] <jadew> I think we're only a tad ahead of you guys
[10:15:55] <jadew> with the exception that you have a great economy
[10:16:07] <BigHugeDog> I don't quite understand.
[10:16:10] <BigHugeDog> But I think it's expensive.
[10:16:34] <BigHugeDog> Not good economy.
[10:16:35] <jadew> it's not cheap, that's for sure, but in here you'd pay about $10 000 to organize a wedding
[10:16:35] <BigHugeDog> Life is hard here.
[10:16:38] <BigHugeDog> really.
[10:16:43] <specing> people and their stupid traditions ;D
[10:16:44] <BigHugeDog> eer!
[10:16:50] <BigHugeDog> $10000?
[10:16:55] <jadew> yeah
[10:17:15] <BigHugeDog> I tought things in european countries are cheap?
[10:17:19] <BigHugeDog> It seems not.
[10:17:25] <specing> hahaha
[10:17:31] <BigHugeDog> (yes. it's not. as of avrs here)
[10:17:43] <jadew> BigHugeDog, this is the cheap end of europe
[10:17:50] <specing> europe is probably the most expensive continent
[10:17:54] <jadew> yeah
[10:18:05] <specing> stuff here is even more expensive than in america
[10:18:14] <jadew> yep, since they don't have VAT
[10:18:15] <BigHugeDog> Everone here dreams to get out of this country!
[10:18:23] <specing> here too
[10:18:25] <jadew> BigHugeDog, same here
[10:18:26] <jadew> lol
[10:18:30] <BigHugeDog> eer
[10:18:47] <BigHugeDog> We have VAT to.
[10:18:52] <BigHugeDog> too
[10:19:04] <BigHugeDog> 增值税
[10:19:10] <jadew> truth to be told, there are good countries to live in, in europe
[10:19:21] <BigHugeDog> yes. like England?
[10:19:23] <jadew> germany is cool, england is _still_ cool
[10:19:28] <BigHugeDog> WOWO
[10:19:30] <jadew> yeah
[10:19:34] <specing> switzerland
[10:19:42] <specing> all the banks are there
[10:19:42] <jadew> yeah, that's the best
[10:19:55] <jadew> seems to be the most stable country in the freaking world
[10:20:14] <BigHugeDog> where watch is made.
[10:20:16] <BigHugeDog> But in US you can buy guns.
[10:20:18] <specing> I heard minimum wage in there is 3500 EUR
[10:20:23] <jadew> the taxes are huge tho
[10:20:26] <BigHugeDog> while you canno't here.
[10:20:32] <BigHugeDog> 3500!
[10:20:34] <jadew> specing, damn, that's a lot!
[10:20:38] <specing> yeah
[10:20:52] <BigHugeDog> Hope one day I will be there.
[10:21:00] <specing> keep dreaming ;P
[10:21:08] <jadew> BigHugeDog, it's hard to get there :)
[10:21:12] <BigHugeDog> Eeer. I am dreaming...
[10:21:15] <BigHugeDog> I know.
[10:21:55] <BigHugeDog> But I will dream on. And oneday to fulfill it.
[10:22:21] <jadew> if I was in china, I don't think I'd leave
[10:22:30] <BigHugeDog> why?
[10:22:36] <jadew> cheap components, hot chicks
[10:22:42] <BigHugeDog> The bornth restriction?
[10:22:43] <BigHugeDog> how chicks.
[10:22:48] <specing> :D
[10:22:57] <BigHugeDog> yes. KFC is expensive.
[10:23:06] <specing> KFC?
[10:23:10] <jadew> talking about girls :P
[10:23:17] <jadew> not chickens
[10:23:49] <jadew> specing, you don't have kfc?
[10:24:10] <specing> I don't know what KFC stands for off the top of my head
[10:24:26] <jadew> kentuchi fried chicken
[10:24:43] <jadew> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KFC
[10:24:43] <specing> we do slow food here ;D
[10:24:47] <jadew> Kentucky
[10:24:59] <BigHugeDog> I am sorry. You meant girls who sell their nights for money!
[10:25:07] <BigHugeDog> Yes. I got these kind of girls.
[10:25:24] <jadew> BigHugeDog, not necesarily prostitues
[10:25:28] <jadew> but I guess they count too
[10:25:47] <jadew> BigHugeDog, so how much do you have to pay in there for a prostitute?
[10:26:13] <BigHugeDog> Here(shandong), around 100 per (I don't know this word in english).
[10:26:34] <specing> BigHugeDog: sex?
[10:26:35] <jadew> per finish? :)
[10:26:45] <BigHugeDog> yes. finish.
[10:26:46] <jadew> 100 rmb?
[10:26:52] <AllTuna> Hey guys
[10:27:02] <AllTuna> I'm trying to work with my ATTiny85, but cant seem to get it working, I've hooked up all the correct pins from the arduino to the chip but whenever I try build after selecting the ATTiny I get the error:
[10:27:04] <jadew> BigHugeDog, it's around 185 rmb in here
[10:27:10] <AllTuna> avrdude: usbdev_open(): did not find any USB device "usb"
[10:27:13] <BigHugeDog> Yes.
[10:27:14] <BigHugeDog> Hi Tuna.
[10:27:22] <BigHugeDog> jadew: eer.
[10:27:35] <BigHugeDog> Tuna is not off topic.
[10:27:55] <specing> well
[10:27:58] <jadew> AllTuna, it looks like the issue is with the programmer
[10:28:00] <BigHugeDog> is your avrdude configured well?
[10:28:10] <BigHugeDog> what programmer are you using.
[10:28:10] <jadew> there's a problem before your attiny
[10:28:25] <AllTuna> I'm a noob
[10:28:31] <sabesto> some times there is a difference between usb and USB
[10:28:34] <AllTuna> I'm using the default arudino.exe
[10:28:53] <BigHugeDog> I will my handmade usbasp which use usb interface (emulated by a avr chip).
[10:28:56] <specing> AllTuna: ##arduino is the arduino channel
[10:28:57] <BigHugeDog> (1.1 low speed)
[10:29:23] <AllTuna> Look, I went to arudino
[10:29:25] <jadew> BigHugeDog, using v-usb?
[10:29:26] <AllTuna> they sent me here
[10:29:35] <BigHugeDog> yes. under win32
[10:29:48] <sabesto> AllTuna: try "avrdude -c arduino -p t85 -P USB" in commandline
[10:29:54] <specing> AllTuna: yes, we know they are a bunch of noobs in ##arduino
[10:29:56] <BigHugeDog> www.fischl.de/usbasp/
[10:31:21] <AllTuna> doesnt recognise avrdude
[10:31:27] <specing> oh well, I guess I should go back to reading m4f docs
[10:31:31] <BigHugeDog> (but usbasp is only a downloader not a debugger. It does not support debugwire)
[10:31:48] <jadew> specing, what's that?
[10:32:35] <sabesto> AllTuna: download and install this then:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/winavr
[10:32:59] <BigHugeDog> winavr is a gcc port for avr for win32
[10:33:00] <sabesto> AllTuna: it includes avrdude, dont know what arduino does, doesnt seem like it installs it
[10:33:47] <sabesto> I havent used windows for this in ages
[10:34:11] <specing> jadew: stellaris
[10:34:15] <BigHugeDog> I used it. Last time I check it. It hasn't updated since 2010
[10:34:17] <jadew> ah
[10:34:32] <BigHugeDog> (winavr. not avrdude)
[10:34:35] <specing> Its nice to have a gdb connection open
[10:34:58] <specing> you can code way faster than what I was doing with AVRs
[10:36:14] <jadew> specing, what compiler are they using?
[10:36:34] <BigHugeDog> I use gcc for avr.
[10:37:06] <sabesto> anyone got IAR for 8-bit avr here?
[10:37:17] <BigHugeDog> IAR is slow and expensive.
[10:37:35] <BigHugeDog> There were ImageCraft
[10:37:36] <BigHugeDog> which was famous.
[10:38:02] <BigHugeDog> (but it's no longer famous)
[10:38:04] <sabesto> i got some sourcecode for atmega32hvb (lipo battery management) from atmel written for IAR, i dont feel like rewriting it
[10:38:32] <BigHugeDog> Then you have to buy a IAR.
[10:38:39] <sabesto> this is for a student club at uni, and i emailed IAR and asked for a deal
[10:38:46] <BigHugeDog> avr-gcc is not compatile with iar.
[10:38:56] <sabesto> got the crappiest deal ever
[10:39:05] <jadew> what did they offer?
[10:39:10] <BigHugeDog> ByeBye everyone. I will sleep!
[10:39:19] <jadew> BigHugeDog, see ya
[10:39:19] <sabesto> 3 licenses full price
[10:39:23] <jadew> lol
[10:39:48] <jadew> you know what's the deal with third party compilers?
[10:40:12] <sabesto> 3600USD
[10:40:35] <sabesto> AVR was developed together with IAR
[10:40:50] <jadew> if the two biggest c/c++ compilers still have small issues (or in the case of c++, struggle to get up to date), how can you trust some random compiler to do a good job, or stay standard compliant?
[10:41:04] <jadew> doesn't matter who it was developped with
[10:41:32] <jadew> I never used other compilers that even come close to vc++ or gcc
[10:41:39] <specing> jadew: arm-none-eabi
[10:43:10] <jadew> specing, looked that up, what about it?
[10:43:17] <specing> ?
[10:43:24] <jadew> [18:29.19] <specing> jadew: arm-none-eabi
[10:44:01] <jadew> what did you want to tell me? :)
[10:46:00] <specing> nothing
[11:21:57] <pmjdebruijn> hi folks
[11:22:36] <pmjdebruijn> tkoskine: may I bother you for a minute about building avr-gnat?
[11:22:43] <pmjdebruijn> tkoskine: I'm trying to do that for a package
[11:23:20] <pmjdebruijn> tkoskine: do I understand it correctly that a crosscompiling avr-gnat must be built with a native avr-gnat of exactly the same version
[11:23:41] <pmjdebruijn> tkoskine: for exactly my system gnat is 4.6 and I'm try to build a crosscompiling avr-gnat 4.7
[11:23:49] <pmjdebruijn> do I need the intermediate 4.7 native build?
[11:24:13] <pmjdebruijn> configure: error: GNAT is required to build ada
[11:24:19] <pmjdebruijn> because I get that in the package build
[11:36:23] <Grievre> Do AVR chips have a cycle counter of some sort or do I /have/ to use an interrupt if I want to keep track of time?
[11:39:01] <pmjdebruijn> tkoskine:
http://pastebin.com/nR8BD863
[12:50:07] <philfine> Grievre: AVRs have timers
[12:50:30] <philfine> If the purpose is to keep track of tme, those should work fine
[12:51:05] <philfine> If you want to know the number of passed clock cycles, then I believe there is nothing that can help you
[12:52:05] <philfine> However you can compute the number of clock cycles at hand :D
[12:52:28] <philfine> There should exist some worth of compiler macro to help compute those values :D
[12:52:43] <philfine> Statically howeer
[13:10:10] <Casper> Grievre: there is no cycle counter per se on an avr, however, the timer can be used for that, and is indirectly a cycle counter
[13:10:54] <Casper> if you use a 16 bits timer, you can use a /1 prescaller and you will get a 0-65535 cycle count
[13:11:19] <Casper> if you use a prescaller you can extend the range, at the cost of some precision
[13:40:11] <GuShH> Casper: you mean resolution, not precision... unless it was a crappy scaler :P
[13:40:55] <Casper> true
[14:05:55] <tkoskine> pmjdebruijn: Read the error message. ;)
[14:06:05] <tkoskine> pmjdebruijn: You are required to have native gnat installed
[14:06:45] <tkoskine> "checking for x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc... gcc" -> "gcc" should be configured with Ada support.
[14:07:12] <tkoskine> It is possible that "gnatgcc" is the gcc with Ada support on your system.
[14:07:21] <pmjdebruijn> ah
[14:07:22] <pmjdebruijn> yeah
[14:07:32] <pmjdebruijn> can I tell configure to use that?
[14:08:06] <tkoskine> Yep. CC="gnatgcc" ./configure probably works.
[14:08:44] <tkoskine> In addition, the version of gnatgcc needs to be same as version of avr-gcc.
[14:08:54] <tkoskine> -> 4.7.x
[14:09:58] <tkoskine> I have a build script at
https://bitbucket.org/tkoskine/avr-ada-build-script/ (mercurial repo), which should work on Debian-based systems (like Ubuntu or Mint) also.
[14:10:30] <tkoskine> Only thing you might need to add is --enable-multilib (or --disable-multilib).
[14:14:38] <pmjdebruijn> oof
[14:14:39] <pmjdebruijn> right
[14:14:47] <pmjdebruijn> well building is manually I'll probably manage
[14:14:59] <pmjdebruijn> I was looking to properly package it (by modifying existing packages)
[14:15:11] <pmjdebruijn> the annoying thing is gnat is 4.6 in ubuntu/debian now
[14:15:19] <pmjdebruijn> but gcc and gcc-avr is 4.7
[14:16:07] <tkoskine> Yep. Debian gnat maintainers haven't had time to update gnat to 4.7 and they might skip to 4.8 directly, so avr-ada stays tricky to build.
[14:17:29] <tkoskine> (avr-)gnat 4.6.x might work for AVR-Ada 1.2. 4.6 series was mostly skipped because early 4.6.x versions had some regressions in Ada+avr combination.
[14:51:18] <pmjdebruijn> tkoskine: ok, thanks for your time!
[14:54:28] <tkoskine> No problem.
[15:07:45] <Siliconsoul> hey
[15:08:22] <Siliconsoul> I'm currently working on a AT90USB646
[15:08:33] <Siliconsoul> Using LUFA and FatFS
[15:10:17] <Siliconsoul> My idea is to have the device show up as a mass storage device formatted as fat
[15:10:43] <Siliconsoul> further on show 2 files which should be special/driver files
[15:11:00] <Siliconsoul> to interface the microcontroller to the computer
[15:11:48] <Siliconsoul> like that i can keep compatibility accross all major operating systems and only need to do reads and writes to the files
[15:12:11] <specing> Siliconsoul: usb mass storage is a block device, not a filesystem
[15:12:13] <Siliconsoul> an application in c would just have to do freads and fwrites
[15:12:25] <Siliconsoul> im aware of that
[15:12:49] <Siliconsoul> but it would be possible to implement a layer to tell the computer hey im a fat
[15:12:54] <specing> your firmware wouldn't get fatFS requests from the operating system
[15:13:11] <specing> it would get block-aligned block-sized read/write requests
[15:13:29] <Siliconsoul> hmm
[15:13:48] <Siliconsoul> how can i get it to be recognised as fat?
[15:14:10] <Grievar> anyone here use code::blocks?
[15:14:15] <Siliconsoul> would it be possible to send a fat header on rewuest
[15:14:46] <Siliconsoul> i dont need or want the computer to be doing any formating or saving files to it
[15:15:33] <Siliconsoul> jusit should just be something like how the eye-fi talks to the manager during configuration
[15:16:03] <Siliconsoul> there are basically a few files which act as special files
[15:16:21] <specing> Siliconsoul: by using something other than mass-storage
[15:16:33] <specing> and writting drivers for it
[15:16:44] <Siliconsoul> then you're missing my point
[15:17:11] <specing> Siliconsoul: Im just telling you what is possible
[15:17:14] <Siliconsoul> to keep compatibility i need it to be a mass storage device
[15:17:35] <specing> other thing you can do is make 2 pairs of endpoints
[15:17:39] <specing> one mass storage
[15:17:49] <specing> the other CDC serial or something else
[15:18:01] <Siliconsoul> you're still missing the point
[15:18:11] <specing> < specing> Siliconsoul: Im just telling you what is possible
[15:18:18] <specing> Grievar: no
[15:18:28] <Siliconsoul> there must be another method
[15:19:38] <jadew> Siliconsoul, fat is not a device type
[15:19:54] <Siliconsoul> something in the likes: mass storage on ram <= FatFS for microcontroller reads writes, LUFA mass storage. that way i just need to create a trigger on every write
[15:20:07] <jadew> that's what specing is saying, so you will only get requests that deal with the disk
[15:20:09] <Siliconsoul> im totally aware of that
[15:20:38] <jadew> to make it a mass storage device you'll have to behave like a block device
[15:21:00] <Siliconsoul> thats easily done
[15:21:09] <Siliconsoul> got that working
[15:21:28] <jadew> which means, if you want those files to be special, that you would simply use whatever data is written to their sectors
[15:21:41] <Siliconsoul> so the next step would be to create a static header (TOC)
[15:21:42] <jadew> just lie to the OS
[15:21:45] <Siliconsoul> ah ok
[15:21:53] <jadew> and when it tries to write to the address you specify, just use the data
[15:21:53] <Siliconsoul> getting somewhere here
[15:22:06] <specing> looks like
http://blog.gsmarena.com/how-do-you-spot-fake-chinese-usb-hard-drives-well-you-take-them-apart
[15:22:19] <jadew> seeking, truncating, etc can be ignored
[15:22:30] <jadew> well, actually that could be an issue
[15:22:36] <Siliconsoul> hmm
[15:22:46] <Siliconsoul> so how would i need to implement this
[15:22:49] <jadew> since that's also done at the FS level
[15:23:01] <Siliconsoul> thats what i mean
[15:23:10] <jadew> lol specing
[15:23:11] <jadew> nice one
[15:23:12] <specing> I think CDC is by far the easiest solution :)
[15:23:48] <specing> you'd only need to provide two implementations of the host program: for windows and for POSIX
[15:23:48] <jadew> deffinitely
[15:24:01] <Siliconsoul> CDC wont work in a virtual enviroment where only mass torage devices are allowed for example
[15:24:07] <jadew> well, he would have to do that anyway
[15:24:18] <jadew> since he'd have to read and write stuff to those files
[15:25:11] <Siliconsoul> my idea is as follows: PC - USB - Device ( - FatFS - Script )
[15:26:13] <jadew> why wouldn't CDC work in a virtual environment and mass storage devices would?
[15:26:36] <Siliconsoul> because thats the way the systems are setup due to security policies
[15:26:56] <Siliconsoul> i wouldnt go this route if it were not necessary
[15:27:40] <Siliconsoul> brings me to an idea to create 4 files, maybe 512bytes each, inout, output, inputcounter, output counter
[15:28:00] <Siliconsoul> all i have to do is create triggers for the counter files
[15:28:22] <Siliconsoul> on every increment, the files have either been written or read
[15:28:28] <yunta> seriously? which vm software allows limiting usb bus access this way?
[15:28:36] <Siliconsoul> sun
[15:28:39] <yunta> ow
[15:28:59] <Siliconsoul> im talking about huge remote desktop sessions
[15:29:18] <Siliconsoul> sun ray that shit
[15:29:23] <jadew> Siliconsoul, why does it have to be fat?
[15:29:37] <Siliconsoul> its not a bad system but annoying
[15:29:37] <jadew> just have it show up as a mass storage device, unformatted
[15:29:53] <jadew> and you can write and read stuff from different sectors
[15:29:57] <yunta> do you have any way to stop the os from caching your fat access?
[15:30:00] <Siliconsoul> to keep the reading and writing of files simple
[15:30:00] <jadew> and you know what they mean
[15:30:11] <Siliconsoul> yeah
[15:30:13] <specing> Siliconsoul: just bring your own laptop
[15:30:16] <specing> problem solved
[15:30:22] <Siliconsoul> the stick will just make requests to flush
[15:30:27] <specing> this is at a university, right?
[15:30:35] <specing> OndraSter_ shares your rage
[15:30:50] <Siliconsoul> at a university yeap
[15:31:08] <Siliconsoul> and also at two big companies i work for
[15:31:16] <specing> lol
[15:31:20] <yunta> for writing flush is ok, but what about read-cache, can you clean it?
[15:31:22] <Siliconsoul> part time student stuff^^
[15:31:24] <specing> just bring your own laptop
[15:31:51] <Siliconsoul> the point is to get it running there
[15:31:56] <specing> why?
[15:31:58] <Siliconsoul> i always have my laptop with me
[15:32:08] <Siliconsoul> no one wants avr programming on their servers
[15:32:09] <Siliconsoul> ^^
[15:32:19] <Siliconsoul> its for a thesis
[15:32:38] <specing> dooh
[15:32:52] <yunta> it's so ugly I'd change the thesis :)
[15:32:53] <Siliconsoul> i/o over mass storage to ensure cross platform compatibility
[15:33:02] <Siliconsoul> too late
[15:33:03] <Siliconsoul> ^^
[15:33:11] <specing> well
[15:33:27] <specing> if it is for a thesis then you are expected to research the subject thoroughly
[15:33:42] <Siliconsoul> this is gonna be for a crap
[15:33:47] <specing> not copy&pasting what #avr says
[15:34:12] <Siliconsoul> im gonna try implementing a virtual fat on ram and have lufa interface that to the computer
[15:34:32] <Siliconsoul> on the other side implement triggers and take actions
[15:34:47] <Siliconsoul> lets see how far i get
[15:34:57] <Siliconsoul> eye-fi did it
[15:35:02] <Siliconsoul> codemeter too
[15:35:10] <Siliconsoul> so it must be possible
[15:35:42] <Siliconsoul> btw, the device shows up as a composite and i have serial, but its only for debugging
[15:35:56] <Siliconsoul> as thats not the objective
[15:36:15] <yunta> Siliconsoul:
http://staff.washington.edu/dittrich/misc/fatgen103.pdf
[15:36:20] <Siliconsoul> anyway thanks for the help so far
[15:36:37] <Siliconsoul> the caching problem, something i havent thouhgt about^^
[15:37:25] <yunta> if you re-mount every read/write, it should drop the cache iirc
[15:37:55] <yunta> (non-mounted block devices are not cached usually, afaik)
[15:38:11] <Siliconsoul> but that would also mean that the drive will be gone fo a couple of secinds
[15:39:06] <Siliconsoul> fat specification, something ill have to have a closer look at some time soon
[15:39:07] <yunta> unless you can remount fs without remounting (in-out cycle) block device
[15:39:16] <yunta> also, there should be some ioctls to drop cache......
[15:40:00] <jadew> I don't think you can control the cache from the disk level
[15:40:13] <yunta> Siliconsoul: easier way to know what to send to pc: make a small block device on pc, format it as fat, dump content (and present the same content from avr)
[15:40:16] <jadew> you can't signal it
[15:40:48] <yunta> uh, food, I'm out
[15:41:33] <Siliconsoul> will be kinda difficult
[15:41:49] <Siliconsoul> the thing only has a total of 64k
[15:42:11] <Siliconsoul> meaning it probably has less with the hex on it
[15:42:34] <Siliconsoul> 2k would be plenty for io
[15:42:35] <jadew> Siliconsoul, wait, you actually want to write to it?
[15:42:46] <Siliconsoul> the only thing is, fat wont format on 2k
[15:42:47] <jadew> I thought you're using the files for communication
[15:43:01] <Siliconsoul> i am
[15:43:09] <jadew> then just keep lying to the OS
[15:43:27] <Siliconsoul> this should be bidirectional
[15:43:31] <jadew> "I have two files, 0 free space, but when you write, it's infinite!"
[15:44:03] <jadew> see what happens when the OS tries to write
[15:44:04] <Siliconsoul> yeah, keep the fat toc and send it on request so that the system thinks there are these files and they are this huge
[15:44:25] <jadew> I think you can get away with 0 size on everything
[15:44:28] <jadew> just try it
[15:44:33] <jadew> see what happens when the OS tries to write
[15:44:49] <Siliconsoul> had a 512k scsi reply and only utilising 12k
[15:45:01] <Siliconsoul> wildows wouldnt
[15:46:35] <jadew> you know what? tell your teacher this project is stupid
[15:46:45] <jadew> mass storage devices are for... guess what? storage!
[15:47:16] <jadew> there are better ways to communicate with a device
[15:47:35] <jadew> if your uni system can't handle it, it means it's a stupid system and it needs upgrading/replacing
[15:48:43] <jadew> here's an idea, mount and unmount the device in morse code
[15:48:54] <r00t|home> lol
[15:49:36] <Siliconsoul> ill send a ... --- ... signal
[15:50:52] <Siliconsoul> well trying it out, the system recognises the mass sorage as flash (flash initialise on ram)
[15:51:22] <Siliconsoul> and whenever i write something im calling a trigger to buffer it and send it to serial
[15:51:28] <Siliconsoul> seems to work
[15:52:03] <Siliconsoul> nopw just need to see how i can write from the avr and have my application recognise the change a d read it
[15:52:28] <jadew> Siliconsoul, you can't
[15:52:38] <jadew> the app has to constantly check for changes
[15:52:51] <Siliconsoul> a ring buffer to push the data in while scsi write gets called?
[15:52:59] <jadew> for instance it can check for file modification time
[15:53:25] <Siliconsoul> then i guess ill have to implement a counter to only read when the counter changes
[15:53:36] <Siliconsoul> thats a good idea
[15:53:37] <Siliconsoul> thx
[15:53:55] <Siliconsoul> too stupid i dont have a RTC
[15:53:57] <Siliconsoul> ^^^
[15:54:09] <jadew> just start with 0
[15:54:16] <jadew> 0, 1, 2, etc
[15:54:28] <jadew> it doesn't have to be a real time
[15:54:30] <Siliconsoul> 2nd file to signal changes
[15:54:35] <Siliconsoul> thats the way to go
[15:55:09] <Siliconsoul> since ild have to purge the whole thing to update the meta tags
[15:55:53] <Siliconsoul> well writung doesnt seem to be a problem. using FatFS here
[15:56:10] <Siliconsoul> for the avr to read from ram
[15:56:21] <Siliconsoul> the block level data
[15:58:23] <Siliconsoul> gotta love FatFs - full of features^^
[16:20:12] <Siliconsoul> seems to work somewhat
[16:42:49] <koik> http://www.carolinaherrera.com/212/es/areyouonthelist?share=NVq56AQ2vxgECOtvW_3-cC_MeqWSEVkU2vlXs7SL5zHkz4rz3EUUdzs6j6FXsjB4447F-isvxjqkXd4Qey2GHw#teaser
[17:51:23] <pepsi> what up
[17:57:10] <Tom_itx> did you get snow up there pepsi?
[17:57:38] <pepsi> does 1-2" really count as "snow"?
[17:58:01] <Tom_itx> more than what we got
[17:58:01] <pepsi> and.. hi Tom_itx
[17:58:30] <Tom_itx> you still in chicago?
[17:59:13] <pepsi> approximately, yes
[18:05:02] <OndraSter_> Siliconsoul, I hear you have some rage for Sun Ray v2 thin clients with Sun servers? :D
[18:05:08] <OndraSter_> don't you happen to be from Czech Republic?
[18:05:09] <OndraSter_> or studying here?
[18:06:41] <Siliconsoul> nah
[18:06:53] <Siliconsoul> sun has a program with many universities
[18:06:58] <Siliconsoul> and companies
[18:07:15] <Siliconsoul> the universities get them nearly for free
[18:07:24] <Siliconsoul> and i guess thats why they use them
[18:07:32] <OndraSter_> ah
[18:07:38] <OndraSter_> I thought it was because some company threw them into dumpsters
[18:08:17] <Siliconsoul> well their still better than the other remote desktop systems
[18:08:32] <Siliconsoul> with the exception of MS RDP of course
[18:14:10] <OndraSter_> ms rdp <3
[18:18:04] <OndraSter_> I don't have it easy on my uni :D
[18:18:10] <OndraSter_> all the stuff is linux/unix oriented
[18:18:17] <OndraSter_> while I am MS person
[18:18:30] <Tom_itx> expand your horizon
[18:18:51] <Siliconsoul> i totally love linux
[18:19:02] <Siliconsoul> and only use ssh and cli
[18:19:19] <Siliconsoul> guess thats because i grew up using the cli
[18:19:25] <Siliconsoul> ms-dos
[18:19:27] <Siliconsoul> unix
[18:19:29] <Siliconsoul> posix
[18:19:30] <Siliconsoul> yeah
[18:19:33] <specing> OndraSter_: maybe we should swap
[18:20:39] <Siliconsoul> btw: it seems to work
[18:20:53] <Tom_L> http://www2.electronicproducts.com/IBM_releases_5_innovations_that_will_change_our_lives_in_5_years-article-FANE_IBM_5in5_Dec2012-html.aspx
[18:20:56] <Siliconsoul> got a fixed area on my ram
[18:21:11] <Siliconsoul> the file system gets initialized
[18:21:23] <Siliconsoul> and files cannot be moved
[18:21:30] <Siliconsoul> nor created or deleted
[18:21:40] <Siliconsoul> the filesystem is not changable
[18:21:54] <Siliconsoul> and the user is presented 4 files
[18:21:58] <Siliconsoul> input
[18:22:01] <Siliconsoul> output
[18:22:04] <Siliconsoul> icounter
[18:22:07] <Siliconsoul> ocounter
[18:22:35] <Siliconsoul> on the other side, on every scsi write, a trigger is called
[18:22:53] <Siliconsoul> the info gets buffered and when the transfer is done
[18:22:59] <Siliconsoul> a script gets called
[18:23:05] <Siliconsoul> or what ever you want to do
[18:23:15] <Siliconsoul> and the counter changes^^
[18:23:57] <Siliconsoul> the scsi read commands calls another trigger and fetches data from a buffer
[18:24:17] <Siliconsoul> and every time 512bytes are loaded and there is more
[18:24:22] <Siliconsoul> the counter increments
[18:24:50] <Siliconsoul> i chose 512bytes for some reason
[18:25:00] <Siliconsoul> oh yeah because of the limited space
[18:25:11] <Siliconsoul> while init of the fs
[18:25:25] <OndraSter_> specing, no, I would have it quite far
[18:25:27] <Siliconsoul> and 512 bytes should be enough
[18:28:47] <OndraSter_> 640kB should be enough for everybody!
[18:30:03] <pepsi> hey man.. i've always been happy with <=64k
[18:46:36] <r00t|home> pepsi: you try to use irc with <=64k!
[18:50:38] <iSaleK> Anyone had issues with 78S05 where it overheats with 14V input (and gives about 9V out) but works just fine with 9V input
[18:50:40] <iSaleK> ?
[19:04:55] <r00t|home> iSaleK: if it overheats, you're dumping too much energy into it
[19:05:14] <r00t|home> iSaleK: which depends on the output current and input/output voltage difference
[19:05:21] <r00t|home> iSaleK: just refer to the datasheet...
[19:06:30] <r00t|home> iSaleK: (also, a linear regulator can't sensibly generate a 9v output from a 9v input)
[20:11:36] <iSaleK> He was generating 9V out with 14V input, but it is 5V linear regulator...
[20:11:56] <iSaleK> Now it's working fine, but my usbasp doesn't detect the tiny2313 :\
[20:12:59] <iSaleK> I've soldered cabels to the pins since board doesn't have ISP and it doesn't work... I've checked with multimeter and buzzer sounds correctly for all pins
[20:17:22] <Casper> iSaleK: 78s05 shouln't output 9V even when it overheat, if it does then it is most probably miswired
[20:17:47] <iSaleK> I know, but only thing that I've changed is the adapter
[20:17:49] <Casper> iSaleK: but yes, 78s05 will most surelly overheat with 14V input...
[20:17:55] <iSaleK> One is 9V and another is 14V
[20:18:15] <iSaleK> I've set it up with really good heatsink :)
[20:18:53] <Casper> wait 78s... what's the s version again? (I somehow mixed it with the L)
[20:19:16] <iSaleK> I think S is the 2A version
[20:19:21] <iSaleK> Not sure thou...
[20:19:32] <iSaleK> It's working fine now, but I don't know what was the problem...
[20:19:39] <Casper> 2A version, interresting
[20:20:02] <Casper> are you sure that you wasn'T checking the in-out voltage instead of gnd-out?
[20:20:20] <iSaleK> 100% sure
[20:20:36] <iSaleK> The regulator wasn't overheating, the MCU was :)
[20:20:48] <iSaleK> when I mesured the voltage on MCU it was about 9V
[20:20:57] <Casper> if you get 9V out... there is a serious issue
[20:21:05] <Casper> be sure that your ground on the regulator is well soldered
[20:22:02] <iSaleK> Ok
[20:22:16] <Casper> those 78xx are almost bullet proof
[20:22:17] <iSaleK> What about ISP issue, did you have similair problems?
[20:22:42] <Casper> the only way to kill a 78xx is to reverse the polarity
[20:23:00] <iSaleK> My usbasp won't detect the mcu and the board doesn't have ISP pins so I had to solder connector directly to the mcu pins
[20:23:16] <Casper> also, since it cause a reverse polarity issue, if your Vout > Vin, which can happend if you short the input and you have a big capacitor on the output
[20:23:43] <Casper> isp do not provide vcc normally, and if it does it's a 5V
[20:24:19] <iSaleK> So you think I should de-solder VCC pin (and GND?) ?
[20:24:43] <Casper> no
[20:24:54] <Casper> just recheck the regulator gnd pin
[20:25:03] <Casper> if that pin is lifted, the output raise
[20:25:18] <iSaleK> For the ISP issue?
[20:25:30] <Casper> no, 9V one
[20:25:47] <iSaleK> I've fixed that one, not sure how but it's working fine now
[20:25:50] <Casper> as for the isp, check your programmer to see what it want...
[20:25:59] <Casper> some need the 5V from the board
[20:26:15] <Casper> some other will provide it, in this case you probably do not want to have it connected
[20:27:30] <iSaleK> I've removed VCC pin and then GND pin and the same thing in both cases
[20:28:56] <Casper> gnd must be connected
[20:29:00] <Casper> but
[20:29:08] <Casper> if the avr overheated, chance is that it got damaged
[20:30:16] <iSaleK> When I connect power it works fine, could it still be damaged?
[20:30:27] <iSaleK> It overheated for like 2seconds tops
[20:37:43] <GuShH> iSaleK: protection diodes shunted excess voltage thus the heat on the mcu envelope, I would imagine this caused permanent damage if no current limiting was available.
[20:38:10] <Richard_Cavell> it says in K&R that we use int for the return value of getchar() so that we can represent EOF in addition to any possible char value. But on my machine EOF is -1, which is within range of a char. So they collide.
[20:38:16] <gee__> if you've got a spare AVR to use, throw your overheated one away
[20:38:19] <GuShH> some peripherals may be damaged... since the bonding wires aren't very thick!
[20:38:23] <Richard_Cavell> woops sorry wrong channel
[20:38:44] <GuShH> and the esd diodes are only there to shunt small currents for a short period of time
[20:38:49] <gee__> I've subjected AVRs to weird things - overvoltage, bad ESD, etc... and they've continued to program/function normally but do weird things
[20:39:19] <GuShH> due to physical damage to the layers
[20:39:19] <gee__> and I've come close to pulling my hair out wondering why something wasn't working, until I tried another IC and it worked fine.
[20:39:35] <GuShH> as gee__ suggests, try another one but only if the issue was fixed.
[20:39:41] <GuShH> otherwise you'll end up with a pile of dead micros
[20:39:43] <gee__> yeah
[20:39:48] <GuShH> and no hair
[20:39:57] <gee__> I'm only popping by this channel briefly, I have no idea what's going on - something's getting subjected to bad voltage?
[20:40:05] <gee__> (can't scroll up on this terminal)
[20:40:13] <GuShH> this hopefully taught you not to blindly hook things up without checking at least the voltage levels
[20:40:35] <GuShH> gee__: wasn't reading either, I just know his avr heated up due to 9vdc on vcc
[20:40:43] <gee__> oh
[20:40:50] <gee__> yeah... remove the AVR and figure out why that's going on
[20:40:57] <GuShH> chances are his linear reg was soldered the wrong way around
[20:41:08] <GuShH> or if variable, the divider was open
[20:41:14] <gee__> some linear regs will do that if their ground pin becomes disconnected
[20:41:19] <GuShH> heh
[20:41:51] <GuShH> or if unloaded, you'd also get an unwanted output
[20:41:59] <GuShH> this is why datasheets exist...
[20:42:52] <gee__> I've never seen a linear regulator run a high output unloaded, it's a pretty crappy regulator if it does it.
[20:42:58] <gee__> most of the usual suspects (7805s etc) won't
[20:43:15] <GuShH> unwanted means unregulated, either high or low, possibly oscillating.
[20:43:25] <iSaleK> Linear regulator is giving about 4V instead of 5V, I guess because it doesn't have enough current to feed the board. How bad is that? :)
[20:43:37] <GuShH> filter cap esr plays a big role on most modern regs
[20:43:48] <gee__> isalek - does anything else run off 5V?
[20:43:56] <gee__> something else could have gotten blown/damaged and is pulling down 5V
[20:44:10] <GuShH> if it's current limiting, obviously the voltage output will lower
[20:44:10] <gee__> hold the back of your hand over your board and see if you feel anything else getting hot
[20:44:16] <GuShH> this is why you inline an ammeter
[20:44:41] <GuShH> right now I suspect his avr is acting as an expensive power resistor
[20:44:52] <gee__> yeah
[20:45:00] <GuShH> gee__: we forgot about fake regulators... I have some here
[20:45:06] <GuShH> they just won't regulate at all, undefined behavior.
[20:45:17] <iSaleK> No, no devices are hot, also the board appears to work just fine (except the programming issue) and other devices have VCC range from 2-9V so I guess they are ok
[20:45:28] <GuShH> China will go through the trouble of faking LM317s
[20:45:31] <GuShH> pathetic.
[20:46:04] <gee__> I've encountered counterfeit audio transistors, RF transistors, etc. professionally. best way around that is to only buy through good distributors.
[20:46:13] <gee__> digikey, newark, mouser, etc. NOT ebay, dealextreme, etc.
[20:46:39] <GuShH> tell that to the jokers at sparkfun
[20:47:00] <GuShH> someone had some spankfun with them more than once.
[20:47:07] <gee__> sparkfun sold you fakes?
[20:47:18] <GuShH> they've bought fake reels in the past
[20:47:27] <GuShH> then sold as souveniers
[20:47:29] <GuShH> because they're money whores.
[20:48:03] <GuShH> probably made a bigger profit than they would've have selling the real parts!
[20:48:13] * GuShH twitches
[21:02:00] <gee__> mission "make a TV-B-Gone fit in a tiny13A" is close to complete.
[21:11:42] <Casper> what is a tv-b-gone?
[21:14:43] <soul-d> somthing that blows up tv's for fun ?
[21:15:56] <timemage> Casper, something that blasts a lot of remote codes for power toggle or power off.
[21:16:28] <Casper> sound useless
[21:16:57] <timemage> Casper, not really. sometimes i wish i had one. a few years back someone got in a bit of trouble for using them at a tradeshow.
[21:17:09] <gee__> it's a prank device more than anything
[21:17:11] <soul-d> lol soinds lke a realy cheap remote
[21:17:16] <soul-d> wich just worked nifty
[21:17:24] <soul-d> used to walk artound neighbourhoud
[21:17:42] <soul-d> press the power thingy it would search code pretty fast :P
[21:18:04] <soul-d> oh the fun you can have with that
[21:18:50] <gee__> I'm building a flashlight with a 5W IR LED, using as much off-the-shelf bits as I can (led, flashlight body, reflector, Tiny13A based PWM driver, etc from dealextreme)
[21:19:45] <gee__> I have to graft on a 4MHz oscillator to make it work, and reprogram the AVR on the PWM driver, but other than that it'll be pretty much stock/easy/cheap