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[00:38:37] <Guest7263> where the hoes at lol
[00:54:30] <MrTrick> #gardening ?
[02:27:16] <yunta> can somebody open left lift helsinki ?
[02:27:25] <yunta> uh, wrong channel
[10:02:28] <OndraSter> I presume that SSR's "cooling" plate is isolated?
[10:03:38] <OndraSter> also when it says "input 3 - 32V" wtf?
[10:03:48] <OndraSter> I presume that there is some LED and optical isolation
[10:03:52] <OndraSter> what current does it take?
[10:04:54] <Malinuss> Why would there be a EEPROM-crypto IC, on a gpu? I will try to inteface with it hehe
[10:05:18] <LoRez> OndraSter: it's internally current limited I'd think
[10:05:39] <LoRez> all the SSR's I've played with have similar wide input ranges.
[10:05:57] <OndraSter> LoRez, ok thanks
[10:06:05] <OndraSter> I will hook it up to my bench PSU to see what it does :D
[10:06:22] <OndraSter> Malinuss, HDCP?
[10:06:25] <OndraSter> no idea
[10:06:46] <LoRez> I've also had issues getting them to trigger on the low end. an AVR with a 3.3V VCC for instance.
[10:07:09] <OndraSter> I am using transistor to run it off 5V
[10:07:13] <OndraSter> although the xmega is 3v3
[10:07:26] <LoRez> that was my eventual solution to that problem as well
[10:07:53] <OndraSter> pulldown on the data line + PNP transistor
[10:07:56] <OndraSter> bc8*7
[10:08:09] <karlp> OndraSter: yeah, it's so you can run them from 12/24v car/truck ssystems and so on
[10:08:18] <karlp> and like lorez, at the low end, they might not always trigger
[10:08:37] <karlp> I had one that turned on the led indicator to say it was switching on at 3v, but didn't actually switch the output until 3.3v
[10:08:42] <LoRez> hey, I always trigger at the low end!
[10:11:42] <OndraSter> I am doing something like this
[10:11:42] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2xIWV
[10:11:48] <OndraSter> I haven't etched the board yet
[10:11:55] <OndraSter> wait
[10:11:58] <OndraSter> ..
[10:12:00] <OndraSter> isn't it rotated?
[10:12:27] <karlp> that looks shady
[10:12:32] <OndraSter> it doe
[10:12:32] <OndraSter> s
[10:12:35] <OndraSter> it is rotated :D
[10:14:16] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2xIZ2
[10:14:17] <OndraSter> this is better
[10:19:37] <OndraSter> doing single sided heavy boards is not easy :(
[10:19:51] <vsync_>
[10:20:53] <OndraSter> getting solid grounds is impossible
[10:21:21] <Essobi> What's a safe safe to convert 5V wiegand down to 3.3V ttl?
[10:21:50] <OndraSter> specialized level converters?
[10:25:40] <Essobi> OndraSter: It's 1 way 5v to 3.3v... Was trying to figure out the best way to do it without ordering a specialized IC.
[10:25:53] <OndraSter> oh
[10:25:58] <OndraSter> two resistors?
[10:26:04] <amee2woof> mmh wasn't there a single transistor level shifter with a MOSFET?
[10:26:10] <amee2woof> that was supposed to work bidirectionally
[10:26:17] <OndraSter> aye
[10:26:28] <Essobi> Hmm...
[10:27:46] <Essobi> Oh...
[10:27:48] <Essobi> http://answers.oreilly.com/topic/2458-how-to-connect-an-arduino-to-an-xbee-radio/
[10:28:14] <Essobi> Bottom comment..
[10:28:40] <Essobi> 10K resisitor and a "common silicon rectifier diode"
[10:28:54] <Essobi> http://faludi.com/bwsn_book/images/5V-3.3V_level_shift_circuit_for_TX-RX.png
[10:30:07] <amee2woof> mmh there was a simpler one with just a single MOSFET... it was like with the gate to 3.3V and the other two pins wired
[10:30:35] <amee2woof> so it turns into an open drain output if used in one direction, and a voltage follower when used in the other direction
[10:42:55] <karlp> Essobi: the easiest way by far is to run your arduino at 3v3 instead.
[10:43:12] <karlp> join teh future, save power, no interface shifting gunk
[10:43:50] <Essobi> It's a 328P bare, and it's already running 3.3 the sensor is 5V.
[10:44:20] <Essobi> karlp: :P
[10:45:12] <karlp> what's the sensor that's 5V only?
[10:46:24] <Essobi> karlp: an RFID wiegand interface.
[10:59:51] <OndraSter> China: buy $3 device, get $5 coupon :D
[11:00:50] <Tom_itx> get me 2
[11:02:28] <megal0maniac> zlog
[11:02:36] <OndraSter> oh hey there megal0maniac
[11:02:42] <OndraSter> so xboard mini should be available soon :)
[11:02:42] <megal0maniac> Yo
[11:02:46] <OndraSter> boards are somewhere in Prague already
[11:02:52] <OndraSter> should be here tomorrow or wednesday
[11:03:03] <OndraSter> but idiot me bought 22nF instead of 22uF caps :(
[11:03:03] <megal0maniac> I kicked megal0maniac _afk by unplugging the router :)
[11:03:05] <megal0maniac> Nice
[11:03:11] <megal0maniac> Meh. Same thing :P
[11:03:19] <megal0maniac> Do you have an image of the board layout?
[11:03:28] <OndraSter> I do
[11:03:39] <megal0maniac> Can I see it? :)
[11:03:45] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/page/m12051/37552075
[11:04:10] <Tom_itx> caps for the crystals?
[11:04:26] <OndraSter> what crystals?
[11:04:30] <OndraSter> no
[11:04:31] <OndraSter> caps for the SMPS
[11:04:36] <Tom_itx> oh
[11:04:37] <OndraSter> I will use two 10uF in paralle
[11:04:38] <OndraSter> l
[11:04:45] <OndraSter> 22uF would be quite a lot for crystal :D
[11:04:55] <Malinuss> Okay so right now, I'm using some teensy-uploader program, to upload my .hex files to my chip. I would like to understand more of the process. So the uploader just calls avr-dude to do the upload, and if I want to understand the process of loading the machine code to the flash, I would somehow need to find the boolader code right?
[11:05:11] <jadew> OndraSter, how many boards did you order?
[11:05:15] <Malinuss> because that's what makes the code that comes in, go into the flash, right?
[11:05:31] <megal0maniac> Malinuss: It's a proprietary protocol written by Paul
[11:05:38] <OndraSter> jadew, 10
[11:05:41] <OndraSter> and I am glad I did only 10
[11:05:46] <OndraSter> because I forgot I2C pullups :D
[11:05:51] <jadew> heh
[11:05:56] <jadew> you can add them afterwards
[11:06:01] <OndraSter> of course
[11:06:05] <OndraSter> they are already on this photo
[11:06:06] <Malinuss> megal0maniac, that means - "it is not open-source, and I can't have a look at it"?
[11:06:17] <jadew> how much did you pay for the 10 boards?
[11:06:35] <OndraSter> $25, they are green ones
[11:06:44] <OndraSter> I paid $25 also for 10 boards for my ethernet, white ones
[11:06:52] <jadew> nice
[11:07:04] <megal0maniac> Malinuss: The uploader does it itself, using Paul's halfkay bootloader. No avrdude required.
[11:07:36] <megal0maniac> Pushing the button on the Teensy puts it into bootloader mode, which allows the flash to be written to by teensy loader
[11:07:42] <OndraSter> for bigger orders it is cheaper to use CapnKernel
[11:07:51] <OndraSter> for 10pcs itead was noticably cheaper
[11:07:57] <OndraSter> for revA
[11:08:05] <megal0maniac> It's all on the site. But yeah, basically it's closed source
[11:08:54] <Malinuss> megal0maniac, I see, I just assumed the uploader had avr-dude "build-in", thank you for explaning this. So if I want to come to a greater understanding how all that happens, what would you sugest?
[11:09:11] <jadew> wish I wasn't so cheap, I would order my PCBs too
[11:09:34] <OndraSter> heh
[11:09:41] <OndraSter> for 1offs I settle with home etching
[11:09:43] <OndraSter> single sided but meh
[11:09:44] <OndraSter> good enough
[11:10:04] <jadew> yeah, but double sided is so much easier to route
[11:10:12] <OndraSter> it is
[11:10:19] <OndraSter> that's why 1off projects aren't that much complex
[11:10:23] <OndraSter> or are made into more separate boards
[11:10:39] <OndraSter> I have got here double sided fr4 photosensitive boards..
[11:10:43] <OndraSter> but rivets... no
[11:11:39] <megal0maniac> Malinuss: I'd get an actual programmer and some AVR chips to program with it. You're not going to learn much about programming from a Teensy. Coding, however, is no different from any other AVR. What aren't you clear on?
[11:11:48] <jadew> rivets are what should go inside a hole?
[11:12:04] <OndraSter> yes
[11:12:11] <OndraSter> instead of plated through holes
[11:12:15] <jadew> got it, didn't know you can get those
[11:12:17] <jadew> yeah
[11:12:21] <megal0maniac> Malinuss: Read this:
http://deans-avr-tutorials.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ProgrammingMethods/Output/ProgrammingMethods.pdf
[11:12:38] <megal0maniac> If you'd like a programmer, speak to Tom_itx
[11:12:41] <jadew> it's the reason I never tried home made dual sided PCB, you can't get the solder to go on the other side
[11:12:55] <Malinuss> megal0maniac, oh thanks!
[11:14:49] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: Why did you say "Not tolerant" instead of "Intolerant" like on the coco?
[11:15:04] <jadew> I have 8 chips in my current project and it's going to be a single sided pcb
[11:15:09] <hackvana> Somebody said my name :-)
[11:15:13] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, intolerant sounds awful
[11:15:16] <jadew> and that doesn't take into account the 10pin sockets and all that
[11:15:28] <megal0maniac> In Czech, maybe :P
[11:15:38] <OndraSter> intolerant sounds racist :D
[11:15:51] <megal0maniac> Racist sounds racist.
[11:16:41] <megal0maniac> And besides, how do atxmegas feel about 5V? :P
[11:17:06] <OndraSter> well I am feeding one 5V IO from FT232RL and it hasn't been complaining :D
[11:17:23] <megal0maniac> Yet :P
[11:18:35] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, I heard you are then one to speak with, if one would like a programmer :)
[11:19:29] <Tom_itx> i have a few yes
[11:19:43] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, you have a webshop or is it all mouth-to-mouth?
[11:19:53] <OndraSter> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[11:20:02] <Tom_itx> there you go
[11:20:14] <OndraSter> is it just me or is your website AWFULY slow right now?
[11:20:14] <OndraSter> like... not working at all
[11:20:14] <Tom_itx> there's a menu link to the purchase page
[11:20:25] <Tom_itx> ok lemme update the ip
[11:20:30] <Tom_itx> it will work in a sec
[11:20:35] <megal0maniac> Yeah, here too
[11:20:38] <OndraSter> well it is loading
[11:20:52] <OndraSter> but ... slower than when I am on GPRS and have depleted my FUP
[11:20:56] <hackvana> mouth-to-mouth??
[11:21:04] <Tom_itx> no, gimme a sec
[11:21:07] <megal0maniac> Word-of-mouth :P
[11:21:09] <hackvana> Tom brought me back to life!
[11:21:15] <OndraSter> hackvana, resuscitation? :D
[11:21:16] <hackvana> And I got a free programmer to boot!
[11:21:17] <Tom_itx> not unless she's awfully cute
[11:21:34] <Malinuss> <.<
[11:21:34] <hackvana> OndraSter: :-)
[11:22:04] <hackvana> It's ok Malinuss, my Chinese is terrible.
[11:22:10] <Malinuss> megal0maniac, that pdf really cleared up some of the questions. So just to be sure I have the thory right. Each time I hit the rest button, the first program to run is the bootlader. All the uploader program does is somehow to check with the teensy usb to check if the bootlader is running, if it is, it just transfers the machine code, and the bootlader programs the flash... right?
[11:22:18] <hackvana> One day I meant to say Emperor, but instead I called him a grape.
[11:22:23] <Malinuss> wut
[11:22:33] <OndraSter> hackvana, happens :)
[11:22:38] <hackvana> Indeed
[11:22:40] <megal0maniac> hackvana: All the time
[11:23:15] <Tom_itx> now it's working
[11:23:32] <Malinuss> so you guys wouldn't recomend a JTAG, since the price is about the same, and it has the on-chip debugging functionality
[11:23:38] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, do we have to flush the DNS? :)
[11:23:52] <OndraSter> Malinuss, JTAG is a bonus for bigger projects
[11:26:25] <OndraSter> that is the *cheap* and old avr isp
[11:26:28] <OndraSter> it can program only the old megas
[11:26:34] <Essobi> :D
[11:26:42] <megal0maniac> "DO NOT SUPPORT WIN7!!!"
[11:26:42] <Tom_itx> ok it should work now:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/commerce/commerce_index.php
[11:26:43] <Essobi> I used a parallel port programmer for ages.
[11:26:57] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, that's a lie :)
[11:26:58] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: You're live in SA
[11:27:01] <OndraSter> it will have V-USB
[11:27:05] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, it is fasst again!
[11:27:05] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: I copy pasted
[11:27:15] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, that one is a bit banged programmer
[11:27:26] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, :P
[11:27:30] <Tom_itx> isp only
[11:28:32] <megal0maniac> I just got some free RAM :)
[11:28:36] <Tom_itx> i just made a few more blue ones last night
[11:28:51] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, what kind of RAM?
[11:28:53] <megal0maniac> 2x512mb 667 laptop stuff.
[11:29:04] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, "banged"?
[11:29:11] <megal0maniac> Upgraded a 2007 macbook to 4gb
[11:29:12] <Tom_itx> software usb
[11:29:17] <Malinuss> yes?
[11:29:20] <OndraSter> Malinuss, it rapes your USB port virtually
[11:29:27] <hackvana> It means there's no support for USB in hardware.
[11:29:31] <Malinuss> hmpf?
[11:29:32] * megal0maniac does pelvic thrust
[11:29:32] <hackvana> It is done in software.
[11:29:33] <Malinuss> ah
[11:29:35] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, mine is done in hardware
[11:29:49] <Tom_itx> and works with avrdude or studio
[11:29:57] <Tom_itx> the one you linked wouldn't work in studio
[11:30:06] <DagoRed> Tom_itx: I still can't get mine to work with AVR studio
[11:30:08] <hackvana> Malinuss: Get a Tom's programmer. I have one. I love it.
[11:30:22] <hackvana> I brought it to China with me :-)
[11:30:32] <Malinuss> hehe
[11:30:33] <Tom_itx> DagoRed, i'd suggest reinstalling stuido. i had to do that once to get the jungo driver back
[11:30:53] <Tom_itx> it's a pita i know but it was the only way i could get mine back once
[11:31:19] <OndraSter> the jungo driver is a stubborn thing sometimes
[11:31:38] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: Do you have plans to add a reset button?
[11:31:44] <Tom_itx> ?
[11:31:48] <OndraSter> what for?
[11:31:56] <Tom_itx> i don't have plans to change the current design
[11:32:08] <Tom_itx> dean cobbled up a thing to switch drivers
[11:32:14] <Tom_itx> i don't like the idea
[11:32:15] <megal0maniac> Yeah, that
[11:32:19] <megal0maniac> Why not?
[11:32:32] <Tom_itx> too confusing to know which one you are set for
[11:32:53] <Tom_itx> and noobs have enough problems already
[11:32:57] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, how much for shipping to EU?
[11:33:01] <megal0maniac> True that :)
[11:33:05] <Tom_itx> 5
[11:33:12] <Tom_itx> same as anywhere else
[11:33:19] <Malinuss> oh I read it wrongly, haha
[11:33:25] <Essobi> Jeez everyone wakes up at once...
[11:33:29] <OndraSter> :D
[11:33:39] <OndraSter> except the australians, they have got night right now
[11:33:59] <megal0maniac> If I were to design from scratch, I'd make a dual-colour LED to indicate the mode
[11:34:05] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, and the source is open?
[11:34:07] <megal0maniac> Since there are so many un-used IOs
[11:34:10] <Tom_itx> yes
[11:34:30] <OndraSter> I hate it when there are unused IOs anywhere.. :)
[11:34:37] <Essobi> So... 10K resistor and a diode fairly safe to knock down a 5V signal to 3.3v?
[11:34:49] <megal0maniac> OndraSter: We can see that in your board designs :P
[11:34:49] <OndraSter> zener?
[11:34:54] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, :D
[11:35:18] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, and if you get stuck there's plenty of help here
[11:35:38] <megal0maniac> We all know how it works very intimately :D
[11:35:53] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, it might be my christmas gift from my gf, otherwife from myself ;P
[11:36:11] <OndraSter> megal0maniac, you have got no idea how sad I am from this
[11:36:12] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2xKah
[11:36:16] <OndraSter> so many unused pins :(
[11:36:18] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, can it be used for the new Xmegas?
[11:36:32] <OndraSter> 7 UNUSED IOS!
[11:36:36] <OndraSter> Malinuss, yes
[11:37:06] <OndraSter> actually 8 unused IOs :(
[11:37:29] <Malinuss> more questions incomming - does AtmelStudio use avr-dude, or do they have their own "uploader"
[11:37:37] <OndraSter> own
[11:39:10] <Malinuss> well it is cheaper then the cheapest "orginal" mkII from ebay
[11:40:09] <megal0maniac> Heh. Dean might be getting better internet :)
[11:40:11] <megal0maniac> http://twitter.com/abcminiuser/status/271865732298571776
[11:41:01] <Malinuss> does that guy come here btw.?
[11:41:11] <Malinuss> I read some of his tutorials, and they are quiet nice
[11:41:29] <Essobi> OndraSter: Yea, a zener.
[11:41:29] <megal0maniac> OndraSter:
http://twitter.com/abcminiuser/status/271843454282252290
[11:41:44] <OndraSter> aye just reading :D
[11:42:08] <megal0maniac> Malinuss: He used to more than he does now. Quite busy now that he works for Atmel.
[11:42:28] <hackvana> !seen abcminiuser
[11:42:28] <tobbor> abcminiuser was last seen in #avr on Oct 27 09:18 2012
[11:42:40] <Essobi> He got picked up my Atmel?
[11:42:43] <Malinuss> hehe guess he would know a thing or two about uC, huh? haha
[11:42:45] <Essobi> Good for him.
[11:42:56] <hackvana> CANUCK
[11:43:35] <megal0maniac> canuck?
[11:43:38] <Steffanx> No resistors 'necessary' either?
[11:43:49] <Steffanx> OndraSter knows?
[11:43:51] <Malinuss> megal0maniac, it works with "new" studio 6 too, right?
[11:43:56] <megal0maniac> Yes
[11:44:21] <OndraSter> Steffanx, well they are not nescessary
[11:44:22] <OndraSter> but recommended
[11:44:44] <Steffanx> Ha.. so what's special about that 'zero components' ? :)
[11:44:58] <OndraSter> it can work with zero components
[11:45:02] <OndraSter> he forgot to mention power supply though :)
[11:45:11] <Malinuss> I've been looking at my datasheet, but it doesn't say anything about ISP programming. Would the ISP be setu up like a SPI connection?
[11:45:19] <Steffanx> and the USB connector OndraSter :P
[11:45:23] <megal0maniac> Malinuss: Essentially, yes.
[11:45:25] <Steffanx> or just some wires
[11:45:48] <Essobi> Malinuss: It's the same as a SPI but instead of there being a chip select, it's on reset, iirc.
[11:46:04] <OndraSter> Malinuss, your chip?
[11:46:06] <OndraSter> ICSP header on arduino
[11:46:12] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, yes it works on xmegas
[11:46:13] <Essobi> yurp
[11:46:32] <Malinuss> megal0maniac, so all you would do is to connect it to the SCLK, MOSI, MISO and the last one on on reset instead of SS?
[11:46:43] * megal0maniac nods
[11:47:39] <Malinuss> OndraSter, yeah, well I have the teensy right now, but I have some ATtiny on the way, and I'm looking into getting a Xmega maybe.
[11:47:53] <Tom_itx> xmega are 3.3v though
[11:47:56] <OndraSter> Malinuss, if you want xmega, I will have my xboard Minis ready very soon since the boards are already in Prague and through customs (no taxes, ypiee) so if the SMPS works they will be available next week
[11:47:59] <Tom_itx> you would need a level converter
[11:48:12] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, yours programmer does not have output buffer?
[11:48:16] <Tom_itx> yes it does
[11:48:19] <OndraSter> powered from source?
[11:48:20] <Malinuss> OndraSter, would you sell a chip stand-alone?
[11:48:27] <OndraSter> Malinuss, chip standalone is useless
[11:48:28] <OndraSter> it is SMD
[11:48:28] <Tom_itx> i thought they were talking about something else now
[11:48:37] <Tom_itx> i stepped out for a bit
[11:48:51] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, well its says "tested from 1.8v to 5v target", so why would 3.3V be a problem?
[11:49:09] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, mine does ISP, PDI and TPI and works with studio 4 5 and 6 and avrdude
[11:49:33] <Tom_itx> some have used it in osx but i don't necessarily support that
[11:49:39] <Tom_itx> because i don't have a mac
[11:50:03] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, it wouldn't be a problem
[11:51:24] <Malinuss> well thanks for all the infromations, I'm gonna need to think about it, heh
[11:53:09] <OndraSter> I'll be damned, I have got 22uF ceramic SMDs
[11:53:13] <OndraSter> but only two and only 1206
[11:53:17] <OndraSter> :(
[11:53:20] <OndraSter> stupid stupid Ondra
[11:53:49] <jadew> can you actually find smaller than that?
[11:53:57] <OndraSter> smaller = ?
[11:54:02] <OndraSter> 22uF exists in 0805 as well
[11:54:03] <jadew> smaller than 1206
[11:54:03] <megal0maniac> 0805
[11:54:06] <megal0maniac> 0604
[11:54:10] <megal0maniac> 0201
[11:54:16] <OndraSter> 0603 does not exist in 22uF anymore
[11:54:20] <jadew> aren't they already bulky in 1206?
[11:54:29] <OndraSter> (or not in cheap options)
[11:54:33] <megal0maniac> Oh whoops. Wasn't looking at the value :)
[11:54:33] <OndraSter> they are
[11:54:39] <Tom_itx> do they make em that big?
[11:54:44] <OndraSter> that's why I am using 0603, 0805 only for bigger sizes
[11:54:47] <OndraSter> capacities/voltages
[11:54:58] <OndraSter> 1206 for 35V/1uF
[11:55:02] <OndraSter> or 1808..
[11:55:04] <Tom_itx> OndraSter 0603 should
[11:55:05] <OndraSter> or w/e number it was
[11:55:10] <Tom_itx> i got 10uf
[11:55:12] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, if there was, it was expensive
[11:55:14] <OndraSter> I have got 10uF too
[11:55:23] <Tom_itx> you're rich
[11:55:25] <Tom_itx> just order em
[11:55:26] <OndraSter> :D
[11:55:31] <OndraSter> I am not rich anymore
[11:55:37] <OndraSter> I am glad I don't have to feed a car
[11:55:47] <Tom_itx> i'm feeding more than one
[11:55:49] <OndraSter> I am not glad I don't have a car
[11:55:52] <megal0maniac> Lucky bugger
[11:55:57] <megal0maniac> Get a bike :)
[11:56:03] <OndraSter> bike?!
[11:56:04] <OndraSter> duh
[11:56:04] <Tom_itx> i got a bike too
[11:56:11] <OndraSter> it would take 2h+ to get to anywhere :D
[11:56:12] <Tom_itx> nice mountain bike
[11:56:14] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: What bike? :)
[11:56:17] <megal0maniac> Doh.
[11:56:24] <jadew> OndraSter, isn't prague like... really small?
[11:56:33] <Tom_itx> 24 speed or something
[11:56:36] <Tom_itx> aluminum frame
[11:56:46] <megal0maniac> http://www.motorstown.com/images/yamaha-tzr-125-01.jpg
[11:56:51] <megal0maniac> 6 speed only
[11:56:52] <jadew> or is that only the old part of the city?
[11:56:56] <megal0maniac> :P
[11:56:59] <Steffanx> That's a REAL bike :P
[11:57:14] <Tom_itx> naw you still gotta feed it
[11:57:28] <megal0maniac> She's a little hungry
[11:57:35] <Tom_itx> i rode the bike in the summer on some errands
[11:57:48] <Tom_itx> get a vespa
[11:57:54] <OndraSter> jadew, I live on the edge
[11:57:59] <OndraSter> absolute edge :)
[11:58:05] <OndraSter> 24 mins by bus to the subway
[11:58:07] <Tom_itx> edge of what?
[11:58:15] <OndraSter> of my life!
[11:58:17] <OndraSter> and Prague too
[11:58:17] <jadew> oh, didn't know it's that big
[11:58:29] <OndraSter> :D
[11:58:30] <megal0maniac> I test drove one. Bloody expensive. Engine (on the smaller one) feels the same as a chinese scooter
[11:58:33] <OndraSter> this is a village in the Prague
[11:58:35] <Tom_itx> so if i go visiting overseas you'll put me up?
[11:58:52] <OndraSter> afk
[11:59:21] <jadew> Tom_itx, where are you from?
[11:59:25] <Tom_itx> us
[11:59:42] <jadew> cool, cheap components and everything
[11:59:55] <Tom_itx> not that cheap
[12:00:02] <Tom_itx> but no extra vat etc
[12:00:06] <jadew> at least 20% cheapper than here :)
[12:00:29] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, you weren't here when I raged about importing parts :)
[12:00:32] <OndraSter> about my digikey order
[12:00:35] <OndraSter> but I am afk!
[12:00:40] <Tom_itx> oh
[12:00:46] <Tom_itx> doesn't seem like you are
[12:01:15] <jadew> US should join the EU, then we wouldn't have to pay vat either, for stuff bought from the US :P
[12:01:34] <OndraSter> nwo!
[12:02:31] <jadew> or better, we should invite china to join the EU and then EVERYTHING would be cheapper
[12:02:45] <Malinuss> oh shit
[12:02:55] <Malinuss> no customs to import items from china?
[12:03:04] <Malinuss> goodby EU economy
[12:03:05] <OndraSter> if they were part of eu - no
[12:03:05] <Tom_itx> HK post
[12:03:15] <OndraSter> EU economy is dead already :)
[12:03:33] <Tom_itx> ours will be within 4 yrs
[12:03:35] <OndraSter> honestly - the sooner the EU dies the better
[12:03:43] <specing> EU economy died the moment germany stopped fighting
[12:04:16] <Tom_itx> so should we bomb them?
[12:04:19] <Tom_itx> would that help?
[12:04:23] <specing> yeah
[12:04:31] <specing> we need the fourth reich
[12:04:37] <specing> badly
[12:05:10] <megal0maniac> We'll just stay here
[12:05:33] <inkjetunito> eu sucks
[12:06:20] <OndraSter> indeed
[12:06:49] <jadew> what's a good country to live in?
[12:06:57] <OndraSter> Moon
[12:07:02] <Tom_itx> is there one?
[12:07:09] <inkjetunito> eu is that inreliable and expensive microcontroller were forced to use, by law :D
[12:07:16] <Tom_itx> switzerland?
[12:07:35] <OndraSter> Swiss are internally screwed too I think
[12:09:13] <jadew> swiss is still pretty cool, huge taxes tho
[12:09:32] <jadew> you have to pay like 3% of your fortune, yearly, or something crazy like that
[12:09:52] <Tom_itx> we pay 30%
[12:09:54] <jadew> you get to negotiate that when you move in tho, but still
[12:09:56] <Tom_itx> 28%
[12:10:03] <jadew> 3% of the total fortune
[12:10:13] <jadew> like.. if you have 100 mil euro in the bank
[12:10:18] <Tom_itx> so if i'm broke i get in free?
[12:10:23] <jadew> you have to pay 3% to the government, each year
[12:11:13] <jadew> don't know :) on the other hand I heard it's awesome
[12:11:28] <jadew> civilization at its best
[12:11:42] <inkjetunito> it's a multilingual country :(
[12:11:59] <jadew> yep
[12:12:08] <jadew> french and german?
[12:12:20] <inkjetunito> even more i think
[12:12:38] <OndraSter> yea
[12:12:39] <OndraSter> 3
[12:13:00] <megal0maniac> South Africa?
[12:13:35] <jadew> yeah, heard angola is pretty cool
[12:14:13] <inkjetunito> germany is kind of cool, but it'll fall soon
[12:14:45] <OndraSter> plus german language sounds like shouting nacist words :D
[12:15:01] <jadew> ghenau
[12:15:19] <jadew> (not sure if I spelled it right)
[12:15:25] <OndraSter> saying "ICH LIEBE DICH" sounds like "I WANT TO MURDER YOU" rather "I love you"
[12:15:27] <megal0maniac> Angola isn't South Africa :)
[12:15:34] <inkjetunito> jadew: 'genau'
[12:15:40] <jadew> inkjetunito, thanks :)
[12:15:53] <Tom_itx> OndraSter who you call in a 'dick'?
[12:15:54] <Tom_itx> :)
[12:16:11] <jadew> megal0maniac, Angola, officially the Republic of Angola (Portuguese: República de Angola, pronounced: [??'publik? d? ?~'g?la];[5] Kikongo, Kimbundu, Umbundu: Repubilika ya Ngola), is a country in Southern Africa bordered by Namibia on the south
[12:16:35] * megal0maniac goes to wikipedia
[12:16:48] <megal0maniac> jadew: South Africa, officially the Republic of South Africa, is a country located at the southern tip of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa.
[12:17:08] <Tom_itx> what's the native language?
[12:17:12] <Tom_itx> french?
[12:17:12] <megal0maniac> South, not Southern :)
[12:17:15] <megal0maniac> Here?
[12:17:19] <Tom_itx> SA
[12:17:28] <megal0maniac> We have 11 official
[12:17:29] <OndraSter> afrikaaNS
[12:17:31] <Tom_itx> heh
[12:17:34] <megal0maniac> English
[12:17:50] <megal0maniac> And then 9 "native" languages
[12:17:59] <megal0maniac> You'll get by with English and Afrikaans
[12:18:00] <jadew> where do you live?
[12:18:00] <inkjetunito> Tom_itx: how are these programming devices generally seen like? paraller ports?
[12:18:06] <Tom_itx> and you speak them all fluently?
[12:18:06] <OndraSter> USB
[12:18:08] <OndraSter> devices
[12:18:11] <OndraSter> Tom_itx, haha
[12:18:12] <megal0maniac> jadew: South Africa :P
[12:18:12] <jadew> what is afrikaans?
[12:18:19] <megal0maniac> jadew: Dirty Dutch
[12:18:23] <Tom_itx> inkjetunito, they show up as AVRISP mkII
[12:18:24] <Steffanx> Improved dutch
[12:18:24] <jadew> ah
[12:18:33] <Steffanx> Dutch without the crappy rules
[12:18:33] <OndraSter> I met the other day nice girl (? she could have been like 25 years old but VERY pretty) on the bus from the plane
[12:18:35] <Tom_itx> or maybe a usb device in linux
[12:18:36] <OndraSter> she was from the IS
[12:18:38] <OndraSter> US
[12:18:40] <OndraSter> so we talked
[12:18:53] <OndraSter> and she told me "wait, you actually talk English! Is English the official language in here?"
[12:19:01] <inkjetunito> Tom_itx: yeah. i'm setting up udev atm
[12:19:07] <megal0maniac> Tom_itx: No, just Eng and Afrikaans. My Afrikaans isn't so great
[12:19:13] <OndraSter> "no, it is the Czech. Usually the younger ones will speak English at least a bit, you can try Russian on the older people" :D
[12:19:23] <Tom_itx> inkjetunito, ask a 'regular' linux user here
[12:19:26] <Tom_itx> i'm not entirely sure
[12:19:32] <Tom_itx> but i think as a usb device
[12:19:53] <megal0maniac> CDC Serial device
[12:20:05] <megal0maniac> "CDC ACM"
[12:20:09] <megal0maniac> Or something
[12:20:14] <jadew> OndraSter, let me guess, you didn't bang this one either
[12:20:22] <OndraSter> this one?
[12:20:29] <megal0maniac> On the bus? :P
[12:20:30] <megal0maniac> Never!
[12:20:30] <OndraSter> it is the one I told you on thursday/friday
[12:20:31] <OndraSter> yes
[12:20:31] <inkjetunito> it's the first time i'm touching this udev whatever. had a long linux break
[12:20:37] <jadew> ah
[12:20:49] <jadew> still, shame on you
[12:21:15] <jadew> that's why they come to europe, they don't care about the culture
[12:21:38] <OndraSter> :D
[12:21:52] <OndraSter> I had to go to the school
[12:21:57] <OndraSter> otherwise I would help her to get to the hotel :D
[12:22:09] <jadew> oh come on...
[12:22:15] <Tom_itx> k, i'm out for a while
[12:22:17] <OndraSter> and I was ridiculously tired
[12:22:19] <OndraSter> from all the running
[12:22:20] <jadew> chicks > school
[12:22:23] <OndraSter> :D
[12:22:41] <Essobi> pffft
[12:22:55] <jadew> I walked out from my bachlor's degree because a chick was waiting for me outside
[12:23:04] <OndraSter> lol
[12:23:09] <Steffanx> And two days later she left you
[12:23:10] <jadew> failed the whole thing, had to take the exame again in the fall
[12:23:11] <Tom_itx> worth it?
[12:23:21] <jadew> it was obviously worth it :D
[12:23:32] <jadew> and I left her
[12:23:33] <Tom_itx> or you won't admit otherwise
[12:23:38] <OndraSter> :D
[12:23:41] <Essobi> fsck b!tches, get money.
[12:23:44] <OndraSter> I had no idea if this bus chick was 25 or 30
[12:24:06] <OndraSter> she was between "MILF" and "GILF"
[12:24:06] <jadew> OndraSter, it doesn't matter, you're not marrying her
[12:24:07] <Steffanx> Yeah, you are too young :P
[12:24:11] <OndraSter> :D
[12:24:16] <Steffanx> 16? :P
[12:24:19] <OndraSter> no
[12:24:25] <Steffanx> 16.5
[12:24:29] <OndraSter> ..........
[12:24:37] <Essobi> :D
[12:24:46] <Steffanx> … <= that way or => that way?
[12:25:26] <OndraSter> depends on what side you put the 16.5
[12:26:29] <Steffanx> Oh, why you didn't tell use you had your birthday a way ago OndraSter ?
[12:26:38] <OndraSter> I did
[12:26:41] <OndraSter> it was 10 days ago
[12:26:45] <Steffanx> Yes
[12:26:46] <Essobi> :D
[12:27:02] <OndraSter> (did you google my nickname or what? :D)
[12:27:06] <jadew> happy birthday
[12:27:09] <OndraSter> thanks
[12:27:12] <Steffanx> No, good memory :P
[12:27:14] <Steffanx> *not*
[12:27:15] <OndraSter> ah
[12:27:16] <Essobi> OndraSter: He's an eStalker.
[12:27:18] <OndraSter> :D
[12:27:20] <jadew> so how old are you now?
[12:27:24] <OndraSter> 20
[12:27:27] <jadew> nice
[12:27:27] <OndraSter> and 10 days
[12:27:27] <Steffanx> xda-deveopers.com it is
[12:27:29] <jadew> awesome age
[12:27:30] <Steffanx> +l
[12:27:32] <OndraSter> ah xda devs
[12:27:45] <OndraSter> it sucks now
[12:31:55] <OndraSter> Steffanx, do you come from xda devs? :P
[12:32:14] <OndraSter> WormFood does :D
[12:34:17] <inkjetunito> anyone using an avrisp programmer on linux?
[12:35:16] <prpplague> inkjetunito: most people use avrdude on linux for programming avrs
[12:35:47] <inkjetunito> sure. however, i'm not sure about udev configuration
[12:36:28] <OndraSter> isn't udev udev because it does it all autoatically?
[12:36:30] <OndraSter> automatically?
[12:36:35] <devcoder> I use a avr iso mkII in linux with avrdude no udev setup
[12:37:00] <devcoder> *avr isp
[12:37:05] <inkjetunito> devcoder: does the device get a special device node, or does it only show up under /dev/usb/bus/plap ?
[12:37:30] <inkjetunito> OndraSter: it sure needs to be configured to do those things
[12:37:45] <devcoder> haven't looked a a while but think it just shows up under /dev/usb...
[12:37:58] <inkjetunito> devcoder: thanks
[12:38:03] <devcoder> avdude should find it passing a port of usb
[12:38:19] <jadew> inkjetunito, it should show up as /dev/ttyACMx
[12:38:35] <jadew> it's got a serial interface, no?
[12:39:32] <inkjetunito> devcoder: yeah. avrdude can find it
[12:39:53] <inkjetunito> jadew: i don't think so, but i don't know anything about it (yet) :D
[12:40:11] <devcoder> inkjetunito sweet
[12:40:49] <inkjetunito> ok. i got it. i love udev :D
[12:42:00] <OndraSter> I like plug'n play :))
[12:42:12] <megal0maniac> I like girls
[12:42:17] <OndraSter> I love redheads
[12:42:40] <megal0maniac> You already said what you love! You can't just go and change it!
[12:42:47] <OndraSter> I said what I like
[12:42:48] <OndraSter> not what I love :D
[12:42:49] <megal0maniac> Plug'n play for Ondra
[12:49:18] * megal0maniac needs chocolate
[12:50:09] <OndraSter> mmm chocolate
[12:50:20] <OndraSter> one of my friends ordered some chocolate from Germany through ebay :D
[12:50:23] <OndraSter> via*
[12:50:24] <OndraSter> through me :D
[12:54:54] <jadew> because it's always safe to eat candy from strangers
[12:56:23] <megal0maniac> And from ebay...
[12:58:37] <Essobi> :D
[12:58:57] <OndraSter> it was Milka Oreo :D
[12:59:04] <OndraSter> unavailable in here supposedly
[12:59:07] <jadew> you'd better offer it to chicks you meet on the bus, if it knocks them out, you know what to do :D
[12:59:13] <Essobi> Hahaha
[12:59:16] <Essobi> Run.
[12:59:20] <Essobi> Very fast.
[12:59:20] <OndraSter> :D
[12:59:24] <OndraSter> I have got better pick up line
[12:59:32] <OndraSter> "does this smell like a chloroform to you?"
[12:59:36] <Essobi> :D
[12:59:38] <jadew> haha
[12:59:42] <jadew> that's a good one
[13:00:43] <Essobi> Just lean in... and whisper one word.
[13:00:52] <Essobi> Tantric.
[13:01:08] <jadew> tantric slap
[13:01:09] <Essobi> If they're smart enough to figure out what it means.. they'll find you again.
[13:03:22] * megal0maniac leaves the room
[13:03:31] <Essobi> :D
[13:04:24] <OndraSter> haha tantric
[13:04:32] <Essobi> :D
[13:04:48] <Essobi> If they can't hang, I can't f'with'em. *shrug*
[13:49:31] <Steffanx> no i don't. I used google + some random birth years OndraSter__ :)
[13:49:38] <Steffanx> + your nick
[13:50:21] <OndraSter__> Steffanx, ah
[15:12:06] <Malinuss> evening
[15:13:25] <OndraSter__> evenin.
[15:27:37] <devcoder> anyone with experience with lwip. Looking to use it in a project and want to see if anyone has any opinions about it
[15:49:16] <OndraSter__> isn't uIP much smaller?
[15:49:22] <OndraSter__> I never remember whether iwIP is newer or uIP :)
[15:49:30] <OndraSter__> I know that netduino was switching from one to the other one
[15:51:29] <devcoder> yeah from what i understand uip is a little smaller but lwip is more feature rich
[15:52:25] <OndraSter__> never looked into them really
[15:52:26] <OndraSter__> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rvdB5f3zZ-k/So7h4XmlF_I/AAAAAAAACa8/RplG8ZX9O9E/s1600-h/rtt-test1-800px.jpg
[15:52:26] <OndraSter__> yay
[15:52:30] <OndraSter__> quite a difference :P
[15:52:56] <OndraSter__> I will be looking into them (iwip/uip) soon too though, because of that enc424j600
[15:54:57] <devcoder> nice comparison. i was using a the enc28j60 yesterday with at 32byte ping and getting 1.6ms however500ms + seems a little high
[15:55:15] <prpplague> mmmm enc28j60
[15:55:19] <prpplague> nice little chip
[15:55:38] <prpplague> a little power hungry, but a real break through item when it was first released
[15:56:01] <devcoder> yeah, I like it, nice and easy to wire up
[15:56:39] <devcoder> 10bt only but hey not going to be downloading anything big from an 8-bit micro
[15:57:32] <jadew> have you guys ever used magazine paper for toner transfer? doesn't the original toner stick on the pcb as well?
[15:57:42] <OndraSter__> it did not
[15:57:47] <OndraSter__> but I am not doing toner transfer anyway
[15:57:57] <jadew> what are you using?
[15:58:27] <OndraSter__> photo
[16:00:10] <devcoder> I have done toner with glossy photo paper
[16:00:39] <devcoder> works pretty well, getting the paper off can be a bit of a pain
[16:01:02] <OndraSter__> I use photo UV stuff because I can use it for silkscreen too
[16:01:10] <devcoder> but it does stick well. clean the copper really well before transferring.
[16:02:27] <jadew> devcoder, I've been using photo paper as well, but now my pcb is bigger than the photo paper I have
[16:02:55] <jadew> OndraSter__, I would use the UV method as well, but again, I'm cheap, I'm not gonna buy photo sensitive PCBs :D
[16:03:29] <OndraSter__> heh
[16:08:03] <devcoder> always farm them out, but that gets expensive especially for 1 offs
[16:29:36] <Malinuss> Tom_itx, your "USB Breakout board", is pretty much the same as the teensy 2, just with the ATMEGA32U2 instead of u4, right?
[16:29:46] <Tom_itx> yup
[16:30:25] <Malinuss> pretty cool you make all the boards yourself etc.
[16:30:32] <Malinuss> impressive
[16:30:34] <Tom_itx> pm
[16:30:52] <OndraSter__> himself? home etched?
[16:31:00] <Tom_itx> no i had them done
[16:31:23] <Malinuss> oh I just saw all the other boards that you etched, and I figured you did everything yourself :)
[16:31:23] <OndraSter__> for a while I thought you had an easy way how to make PTHs... :D
[16:31:41] <Tom_itx> i've done quit a few but not those
[16:31:56] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, did you get my message?
[16:36:52] <Tom_itx> Malinuss, the one on the lower right:
http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/new_kits/USBTinyMkII_adapter_kit_desc.jpg
[16:38:31] <Malinuss> yeah I did, and yeah, that's conviniet!
[16:39:29] <Tom_itx> i think i still have a few
[16:47:20] <vanquish> is there any way i can specify to avrdude what clock edge to sample data?
[16:47:26] <vanquish> or rather, can i have it invert the clost?
[16:47:29] <vanquish> clock
[16:47:30] <vanquish> ...
[16:47:35] <vanquish> that was an odd typo
[17:01:52] <Essobi> Hmm.
[17:01:59] <Essobi> You might be able to in code...
[17:02:09] <Essobi> Or somewhere in that avrdudeconf
[17:12:28] <vanquish> i tried editing the config file and putting a tilde in front of the pin
[17:12:38] <vanquish> but it seems to ignore it on every pin except the reset pin
[17:12:52] <vanquish> i'm using the avrftdi programmer
[17:12:54] <OndraSter__> well, duh
[17:13:02] <vanquish> ...
[17:13:05] <OndraSter__> reset pin cannot be inverted
[17:13:10] <OndraSter__> it would not enter the programming mode
[17:13:12] <vanquish> ...
[17:13:38] <vanquish> OndraSter__: certain atmel chips have an active high reset, instead of the active low i'm assuming you are used to
[17:13:47] <OndraSter__> are we talking chips from the 80s?
[17:13:57] <OndraSter__> I haven't seen active high reset since... Z80 or something similar age
[17:13:58] <vanquish> possibly
[17:14:08] <vanquish> at89s
[17:14:17] <OndraSter__> .. so I was not that far off
[18:23:20] <hetii> Hello :)
[18:27:36] <hetii> based on this article
http://www.ermicro.com/blog/?p=1239 i will transform some avr to act as i2c expander but is it possible to symulate two or more slave device by one avr?
[18:28:41] <hetii> the point is that i need control lcd display and get data from rs232 to i2c
[18:30:39] <Horologium> if you are bitbanging the i2c interface, I don't see why you couldn't respond to multiple addresses.
[18:31:02] <Horologium> using the hardware TWI(which is atmel's name for i2c as they don't want to pay phillips for the name) then I think it is coded.
[18:31:12] <Horologium> so, using hardware, only one address at a time.
[18:34:45] <hetii> hmm
[18:35:15] <hetii> so only by software way i be able register more devices, you mean.
[18:35:34] <Horologium> yes.
[18:35:47] <hetii> What i will lose if i will do it by bitbanging instead builded TWI ?
[18:36:06] <Horologium> because using the TWI hardware, you set the address.. TWAR = MCP23008_ADDR & 0xFE; // Set I2C Address, Ignore I2C General Address 0x00
[18:36:20] <Horologium> takes more processor time to bitbang it.
[18:36:39] <Horologium> there are some libs out there that do it already.
[18:36:50] <Horologium> I know procyon avrlib has a bitbanged i2c lib in it.
[18:37:08] <hetii> ok thx will try find it.
[18:38:06] <Horologium> you could implement commands...
[18:38:10] <Horologium> and use the hardware TWI.
[18:38:14] <hetii> Btw what do you think, did some simple avr like atmega8 will had enought power to control LCD display and grab data from uart ?
[18:38:47] <hetii> and then register them on i2c bus ?
[18:38:49] <Horologium> you want to get data from one you send a 0x01 command and read a byte...to get data from the other, send 0x02 and read a byte.
[18:39:02] <Horologium> what kind of LCD?
[18:39:27] <hetii> some simple based on hd44780
[18:39:37] <Horologium> no problem..that takes almost no overhead.
[18:39:40] <hetii> 20x4 i guess :)
[18:39:47] <Horologium> you aren't constantly sending data to it..only when you update it.
[18:40:05] <Horologium> and with the UART, use the hardware UART and interrupts to receive data.
[18:41:00] <Horologium> but, yes, an atmega88 running at 20MHz would have plenty of power to do all that and more.
[18:41:20] <Horologium> heck, it could bitbang USB, read/write the USART, and handle an LCD easily.
[18:42:26] <masoudd> How many standard C libraries are there for avr?
[18:44:21] <hetii> Horologium, true but guess the usb library if not free for commercial usage and another point is that i`m not sure if will use any usb host on my project :)
[18:44:49] <hetii> thats why i decide to play with i2c bus to see how it will works:)
[18:45:20] <Horologium> hetii, was just saying, it can do bitbang usb, so bitbang i2c is a nothing by comparison.
[18:45:41] <hetii> ok thank you for your time :)
[18:46:20] <Horologium> http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/modules.html masoudd
[18:47:12] <masoudd> Horologium: So there is only avr-libc?
[18:47:32] <Horologium> in avr-libc, there are some standard libs, including string and such.
[18:47:57] <Horologium> even math.h
[18:48:02] <Horologium> full floating point math.
[18:48:09] <Horologium> but that's huge and relatively slow.
[18:48:44] <masoudd> Right, I meant is there any substitute for avr-libc?
[18:48:50] <Horologium> oh.
[18:48:52] <Horologium> not that I know of.
[18:49:19] <Horologium> the procyon avrlib is not the same as libc...it is some other libs written to take advantage of perhiperals and/or bitbanged perhiperals.
[18:50:52] <masoudd> Horologium: Thanks.
[18:51:03] <Horologium> welcome.
[18:56:11] <hetii> hmm as i see the procyon have software support but only for master mode:(
[19:02:36] <Horologium> check out atmel appnote avr154
[19:06:37] <Horologium> http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/default.aspx?tab=documents toward the bottom of this page
[19:10:02] <hetii> ok thx will read tommorow :) now its time to sleep a while :)
[19:10:09] <hetii> Good night :)
[19:12:54] * Tom_itx plops down and waits
[19:21:53] <jadew> I want a machine that can spit out fully etched, drilled and masked PCBs
[19:22:22] <jadew> and all you need to do is hit a button
[19:23:07] <jadew> then you could start "printing" the pcb at the same time when you start printing the box
[19:23:51] <Horologium> for 100000 USD I bet we could build one.
[19:24:04] <jadew> that expensive?
[19:24:25] <jadew> it would only involve a decently smart cnc
[19:24:30] <jadew> automatic fixation tho
[19:24:31] <Tom_itx> it would take 3 minimum
[19:24:49] <Horologium> Tom_itx, they could be built into one device.
[19:24:54] <jadew> direct to pcb printing, so a modified printer
[19:25:13] <jadew> yeah, I think it's doable
[19:25:14] <Tom_itx> photo mask, etch tank, drilling, mask and silk
[19:25:35] <jadew> well, yeah, but have it all in one go
[19:25:44] <jadew> so you can hit a button in your software and then go out
[19:25:49] <Tom_itx> the chems would interfere with the process
[19:25:58] <jadew> why?
[19:26:06] <Horologium> isolated chambers.
[19:26:13] <Casper> acid fume
[19:26:13] <Horologium> air overpressure, etc.
[19:26:18] <Casper> dust
[19:26:26] <Horologium> so you need decent evac.
[19:26:34] <Tom_itx> they use quite a bit of current plating the layers and thru holes
[19:26:35] <jadew> well, you take care of all that, you close the doors between each rooms
[19:26:46] <Casper> but could be done relativelly cheaply...
[19:26:51] <Tom_itx> the one i went thru here told me they blow transformers quit a bit
[19:26:58] <Casper> mispro ink, the yellow one, contain resin pigment
[19:27:53] <jadew> I wonder if it's worth investing on a profesional machine like that and doing PCBs for a business
[19:28:06] <jadew> that way I wouldn't have to make my own pcbs ever again
[19:28:25] <Casper> a plain inket printer... print on the pcb, bake it, then etch, then rince, acetone and scrubber to remove the resin, drill, rince, dry, back to the printer for the mask and silk, possibly back to the oven for curing
[19:29:01] <jadew> Casper, yeah, sounds like a pretty big machine
[19:29:09] <jadew> I guess it could be done vertically
[19:29:30] <Casper> I'm mainly concerned about the acid fume and explosive acetone fume
[19:29:55] <jadew> you insure the house :D
[19:30:23] <Casper> but I wonder how precise it would be... I mean, printing on copper...
[19:30:28] <jadew> I guess proper ventilation can be achieved
[19:30:41] <Casper> theorical is good, in practice... that's different...
[19:31:02] <Casper> yes, can, but... acetone is very flammable, so any spark is an issue
[19:31:05] <jadew> yeah, I think that's the trickiest part
[19:31:07] <jadew> the printing
[19:31:29] <Casper> in theory, it shouln't be that hard once you have the proper ink...
[19:31:42] <Casper> I've seen plently of 2400x2400dpi inkjet printer
[19:31:43] <jadew> Casper, the way I see it, acetone would stay in its own chamber, completely sealed
[19:31:47] <jadew> it would be an acetone bath
[19:31:54] <jadew> if it lights up, it will go out extra fast
[19:32:11] <jadew> it wouldn't have much room for an explosion tho (too much air would make the chamber explode)
[19:32:13] <Casper> and even some 4800x2400dpi... mind you, that's domestic model, not even pro...
[19:33:14] <Casper> I personally wouln't rely on saturated air to not explode... if it can't be safe in the ideal air-fuel mixture... it's not safe :D
[19:33:19] <jadew> tbh, if it prints it, etches it and drills it for me, I don't mind taking the toner off by myself
[19:34:21] <Casper> I wonder why they don't go that route...
[19:35:07] <jadew> don't know, it doesn't sound that complicated
[19:35:18] <jadew> probably because there's not a huge market for this?
[19:36:57] <jadew> http://www.hktdc.com/suppliers-products/PCB-Drilling-and-Milling-Machine/en/1X06SH9C/1519536/
[19:37:10] <jadew> I guess there's the cnc option
[19:39:15] <jadew> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgAHV-lGvtc
[19:41:04] <Casper> probably small market and/or too bad quality and/or it cost alot, so better jump to the real thing...
[19:41:41] <jadew> when I'm gonna move from here, I'm getting one of those CNCs that can do PCBs
[19:41:44] <Kevin`> how well does lufa work with xmega now?
[19:42:58] <Tom_itx> not sure it does yet
[19:59:20] <tmpvar> jadew, i love cncs
[19:59:33] <tmpvar> i've built 2 from scratch, working on a portable one now
[19:59:56] <jadew> that seems like a big project
[20:00:16] <tmpvar> perhaps, but i enjoy it :)
[20:00:54] <tmpvar> i really want a "suitcase cnc" so I'm never without the ability to mill things.. haha
[20:01:50] <jadew> heh, do you actually find yourself in the situation in which you think you could use a cnc _right now_?
[20:02:15] <tmpvar> surprisingly, yes
[20:02:31] <tmpvar> that and the general feeling of nakedness without it (maybe I'm an adict)
[20:03:29] <tmpvar> anyhow, I'd like to kit them out share the cnc building experience with others and all that
[20:03:47] <jadew> nice
[20:04:23] <jadew> can they do PCBs?
[20:05:00] <tmpvar> the first one (
https://plus.google.com/photos/103607741810677023482/albums/5698695539719986129) not so much. the gantry walked and the result was snapped bits. the new one, yes.
[20:07:20] <jadew> awesome
[23:38:36] <X-warrior> If I try to program my atmega328p with AVRISP MkII I get "avrdude: stk500_recv(): programmer is not responding" if I use usb asp I get "avrdude: error: programm enable: target doesn't answer. 1 " :/ ideas?
[23:39:25] <froggyman> nope :P
[23:45:07] <Casper> blank chip?
[23:48:38] <X-warrior> Casper, if I turn it on, it will execute my old program that is inside of it
[23:49:03] <Casper> did you touched the fuses?
[23:49:38] <Casper> if so, you might have selected a slower clock, which is too slow for the programmer
[23:49:51] <X-warrior> I think I did a mistake setting up the fuses, I think that I was using my atmega8 and was setting up the fuses as lfuses=0xFF, hfuses=0x99, lock=0xFF... but it was my atmega328p
[23:49:58] <X-warrior> and I used the -F option
[23:50:38] <X-warrior> I don't think so I checked the fuses and it seems 16mhz, and my program inside it, is a rgb led controller, so if it was a slow clock, I will see the led blinking because I did some calculations to have 60hz on led updates
[23:51:08] <Casper> try to set your programmer for a slow clock spee
[23:51:09] <Casper> d
[23:51:37] <X-warrior> fucking uspasp from china that doesn't have the jumper on it, it tries to define the sck speed automatically
[23:51:38] <X-warrior> :/
[23:55:38] <X-warrior> I need to go now, thanks for the help Casper... I will try to find other programmer tomorrow
[23:55:38] <X-warrior> :D
