#avr | Logs for 2012-11-25

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[00:40:57] <devcoder> who here has used an enc28j60 with an atmega before. I am using the eth web server software from tux graphix website and seem to almost have a link. I get a ping threw every now and again but hardly anything. I see a link on both my switch and on the breadboard
[00:41:16] <devcoder> using a magic jack from spark fun with the magnetics inside
[00:48:24] <devcoder> almost like its not quite transmitting right. seems like it receiving data
[01:32:07] <Kevin`> can anyone help me find the datasheet for the at43usb401? atmel's search thing is having trouble finding it
[03:26:52] <rue_mohr> devcoder, hmm
[03:26:57] <rue_mohr> I have one, havnt' played with it
[03:28:07] <devcoder> rue_mohr, i have it almost working but i get like a ping once in a while. it appears to be receiving fine but just not sending, weird
[03:28:59] <rue_mohr> are you flooding it, or just 1 ping/sec?
[03:34:23] <devcoder> 1 ping a sec
[03:34:55] <rue_mohr> hmm
[03:35:13] <rue_mohr> 6 minutes to reply to that
[03:35:28] <devcoder> hehe
[03:36:07] <devcoder> yeah, i know
[03:36:46] <devcoder> have it directly connected to my pc even for testing. I see the yellow light blink every second but no response
[03:37:40] <rue_mohr> I dont know enought to help you
[03:38:10] <devcoder> no problem
[05:55:03] <Malinuss> I asked earlier and some of you said that developing for a 32-bit is completly different then for the 8-bit avr uC families. It looks much the same for me though
[05:56:33] <OndraSter_> in C?
[05:56:39] <OndraSter_> it is just writing registers
[05:56:45] <OndraSter_> in asm? never tried avr32
[05:57:25] <Malinuss> okay good, so the only difference is that the registers are 32bit instead of 8. And ports are different (but they are different from chip to chiå anyway)
[05:57:29] <Malinuss> and yeah in C
[05:58:54] <Malinuss> And you would be abel to program them with most programmers? Because all the programmers I'
[05:59:03] <OndraSter_> no idea how about programmers
[05:59:04] <Malinuss> ve looked up so far, looks like they don't suport it directly
[05:59:06] <OndraSter_> but AVR Dragon can do that
[05:59:18] <OndraSter_> check atmel studio 6 sp2 release notes
[05:59:26] <darknite> Malinuss: on 8bit mcu only PORTB is usually accessible, with 32bit you have PORTA-PORTD
[05:59:47] <darknite> atleast i think that's how it's connected
[06:00:12] <Malinuss> darknite, I have PORTB, PORTD and PORTC on my 8-bit :)
[06:01:14] <OndraSter_> sounds like mega328 or similar
[06:01:31] <OndraSter_> and I think that darknite ment it the other way
[06:01:59] <Malinuss> yeah that would make sense hehe
[06:02:22] <Malinuss> because a 32bit could have 32 I/0 on one port, hehe
[06:02:30] <OndraSter_> (obviously)
[06:06:38] <darknite> hehe, i think so too. i've just started reading about other avr outside arduino. the book i'm reading uses the at90s8515 as reference, but covers avr architecture in general. i haven't gotten very far yet though ;p
[06:07:35] <darknite> so whatever makes sense is what i meant :D
[06:08:34] <Malinuss> oh shit - mind-blowing: http://dmitry.co/index.php?p=./04.Thoughts/07.%20Linux%20on%208bit
[06:11:04] <darknite> oh, beautiful
[06:12:42] <OndraSter_> old :)
[06:12:53] <Malinuss> Yeah I figured avr veterans knew this :)
[06:13:08] <Malinuss> but shit on a 32-bit uC you could easliy run linux, hehe
[06:13:19] <OndraSter_> aye
[06:13:20] <Malinuss> just by adding some old ram
[06:13:29] <Malinuss> this uC world is so awesome
[06:22:07] <jacekowski> linux doesn't require mmu
[06:22:09] <jacekowski> and 32bit
[06:30:02] <OndraSter_> jacekowski, uclinux?
[06:34:17] <Malinuss> jacekowski, so you could make it run without mmu?
[06:34:21] <Malinuss> interesting
[06:39:01] <OndraSter_> uclinux does not require MMU
[07:04:49] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, what would you use it for then :s
[07:04:52] <Malinuss> ?
[07:06:05] <OndraSter_> use what?
[07:17:58] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, uclinux...
[07:18:09] <OndraSter_> I have never used it
[09:20:28] <Tom_itx> Kevin`, is it similar to the at43USB355?
[09:20:48] <Tom_itx> http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/175197/ATMEL/AT43USB355.html
[09:24:33] <Tom_itx> Kevin`, you may have to email them for an obsolete part
[09:52:31] <jadew> any idea if there's a way to isolate a low pass filter from a potentiometer, so the filter doesn't become part of the voltage divider?
[09:52:45] <jadew> (not with a voltage follower opamp, because that's what I'm filtering)
[10:37:16] <jdiez> hello
[10:37:23] <jdiez> has somebody used a nrf24l01 with attinies?
[11:59:02] <Horologium> http://chuckleaduck.com/comic/good-enough-for-government-work/
[12:08:59] <OndraSter_> Horologium, do you know what is sad about it?
[12:09:25] <Horologium> the fact that it is almost true?
[12:09:31] <Horologium> or that I posted it on 4 irc channels?
[12:39:56] <OndraSter> Horologium, 'cos its true
[12:42:58] <Malinuss> which ethernet IC would be the easiest one to use? Anyone have experience with that?
[12:44:22] <OndraSter> Malinuss, usually there are finished libs :)
[12:44:32] <OndraSter> for enc28j60, wiznet w5100
[12:44:37] <OndraSter> enc424j600 might have finished lib too
[12:48:09] <Malinuss> thanks OndraSter! think I'm gonna order this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENC28J60-Ethernet-LAN-Module-Network-Module-/370698517150?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564f5a7a9e
[12:49:37] <OndraSter> aye
[12:52:36] <Malinuss> OndraSter, what about wi-fi. you have any expereince with that?
[12:52:41] <OndraSter> no
[12:52:44] <OndraSter> too expensive :)
[12:52:54] <Malinuss> they sure are ..
[12:52:57] <OndraSter> it is much easier to grab random ethernet + the cheapest ethernet - wifi adapter
[12:53:02] <OndraSter> err, brick
[13:05:25] <Malinuss> OndraSter, brick? so you just use something like the enc28j60 and just connect it to some cheap wifi adapter that you configure from your computer first (with pass and everything)?
[13:07:11] <specing> ENC28j60 even has a Linux driver available
[13:07:38] <specing> so you can take an ARMv{5,6,7} devboard and attach it through SPI and it will work
[13:14:25] <Malinuss> specing, awsome.
[13:17:45] <specing> Symbol: ENC28J60 [=n] | | Type : tristate |
[13:17:50] <specing> | Prompt: EN28J60 support | | Defined at drivers/net/ethernet/microchip/Kconfig:21 |
[13:17:55] <specing> | Depends on: NETDEVICE [=y] && ETHERNET [=y] && NET_VENDOR_MICROCHIP [=n] && SPI [=n] && EXPERIMEXNTAL [=y]
[13:18:32] <Malinuss> specing, but thats only if you have linux on your uC :)
[13:18:35] <Malinuss> right?
[13:19:14] <specing> Malinuss: I have :)
[13:19:24] <specing> I have Linux on a ARM9 devboard with SPI
[13:31:30] <TechIsCool> Alright so I think I finished my schematic can someone give it a once over and tell me if I have anything wrong? http://techiscool.com/eagle/outlinev2.pdf
[13:40:08] <nn7> I'm looking for help on a concept. I'm trying to do something like this: http://pastebin.com/9e548q2g
[13:40:34] <nn7> I'm worried about the interrupt firing in the middle of "size-=5" and messing up my operation, but I'm not sure the best way to fix it
[13:41:17] <specing> nn7: state machine in interrupt handler
[13:41:32] <specing> assuming what you want to do is write a packet protocol
[13:41:38] <nn7> please explain
[13:41:57] <specing> Google state machine
[13:42:00] <nn7> ok
[13:42:17] <yunta_> TechIsCool: what's the avg current on 12v rail?
[13:43:28] <TechIsCool> yunta_: Peak .4039Amps while avg 100% is .0544 Amps, 20% is .0234Amps
[13:44:01] <TechIsCool> peak is under 1 second
[13:44:11] <TechIsCool> so between 60-20mA
[13:44:28] <hackvana> TechIsCool: Have you run the circuit before (for example, on a breadboard)?
[13:45:23] <nn7> specing, ok
[13:46:02] <TechIsCool> hackvana: Most of it but not all of it. The LED control is a copy of the PT4115 from the spreadsheet with refrence from the ones I already have. The parts I don't have knowedge on are the LDO's and the RS485 parts
[13:46:30] <TechIsCool> but from reading all spec sheets they say I have them correct.
[13:47:16] <specing> nn7: when you get desynched send sizeof (packet) zeros so that both sides synchronize
[13:48:11] <nn7> I don't understand how that applies
[13:48:32] <Malinuss> specing, I've been asking in here if anyone have some devboards a couple of times, but noone responded, hehe. Would you recomend that board for a noob like lime?
[13:49:00] <TechIsCool> Malinuss: What dev board do you want?
[13:49:27] <specing> Malinuss: what architecture, what specs, what ports, ... ?
[13:50:21] <hackvana> Malinuss: What would you like to be able to do with your dev board?
[13:50:38] <Malinuss> TechIsCool, specing , idk. exatly but I think it would propably be best If I just got some 32-bit uC on a devboard, that is as cheap as possible. I don't think I'm ready for an actuall "mini computer", where I would have no idea at all whats going on.
[13:51:14] <Malinuss> It would be cool if it was powerfull enough to support some linux-like OS.
[13:51:21] <TechIsCool> Malinuss: What are you trying to accomplish. Just messing around or do you have experience with avr?
[13:52:17] <TechIsCool> specing: even thought I know its not avr I am tempted to point him at a raspberrypi with a cobbler.
[13:52:49] <yunta_> Malinuss: get two things: raspi, for os-level stuff, and megaboard (or whatever is the name of thing OndraSter produces) for real-time driving (pwm, etc.)
[13:52:56] <hackvana> Malinuss: If you want something that runs Linux, RPi is good. If you want something less powerful but still 32-bit, try a Teensy 3.
[13:53:21] <Malinuss> TechIsCool, well define "experience". I'm think I'm at the point where I feel like I have an idea what is going on, on my 8-bit uC (have been playing around with it a month or two now), and I would like to "upgrade" to something bigger, but still be abel to control it on low-level.
[13:53:28] <OndraSter> yunta_, "XBoard" - X for Xmega :)
[13:53:31] <Malinuss> yeah I've been thinking about teensy 3
[13:53:33] <hackvana> http://myxboard.net/
[13:53:38] <OndraSter> thanks
[13:53:43] <hackvana> yw
[13:54:23] <OndraSter> Malinuss, well xmega is right below 32bit and 8bit.. it is internally 8bit core but has more features than any common 32bit uc :)
[13:54:24] <Malinuss> hackvana, yeah well on something like the RPi I have no idea whats going on, and low-level access is out of question I think :)
[13:54:35] <OndraSter> RPi low level is not happening
[13:54:38] <OndraSter> it is proprietary
[13:55:02] <yunta_> Malinuss: why would you like to control non-8-bit at low level?
[13:55:03] <hackvana> Er, more or less only the GPU is proprietary. Everything else is open
[13:55:28] <hackvana> Malinuss: So we can help you, let us know the sort of things you'd like to do with it!
[13:56:47] <Malinuss> yunta_, mostly to just learn how things work. I have some years with programming experience (hobby level only, mostly though), and getting a 8-bit uC really made me feel like I actually know what happens "behind the scenes". Would be cool if I could keep that feeling with some more powerfull
[13:57:35] <OndraSter> get xmega and write USB stack for it :D
[13:57:45] <OndraSter> you will stop feeling like you know what is happening very quickly
[13:58:18] <yunta_> and you will stop feeling like you want to know what is happening :)
[13:58:24] <OndraSter> :D
[13:58:25] <OndraSter> aye
[13:58:28] <yunta_> you'll appreciate os more :)
[13:58:38] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Nema17-for-1-7A-3400g-cm-40mm-length-4-Lead-2-phase-Wantai-Stepper-Motor-/140881088288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cd2acf20
[13:58:47] <OndraSter> how do you put some wheel on the shaft?
[13:59:07] <specing> Malinuss: AT91SAM9260 is quite open to low-level programming
[13:59:09] <nn7> glue
[13:59:19] <specing> I have a devboard with it and Linux
[13:59:21] <OndraSter> nn7, lol
[13:59:30] <nn7> OndraSter, :D
[13:59:45] * OndraSter wants to build small "A4-sized" pick and place machine
[13:59:54] <yunta_> OndraSter: you can go very far with just hot glue and shrink-tubes :)
[13:59:58] <specing> Malinuss: low-level == Linux-less
[14:00:21] <OndraSter> why is here yunta and yunta_ ?
[14:00:25] <OndraSter> it is hard to tab yunta_ :D
[14:00:40] <yunta_> 2 separate computers, and I'm too lazy to configure bouncer for freenode
[14:00:43] <OndraSter> ah
[14:00:58] <OndraSter> it is hard to tab, because _ is the last character :D
[14:01:03] <OndraSter> and requires shift AND -
[14:01:04] <specing> Malinuss: I think the cheapest you can get with an ARM with reasonable specs is a cubieboard
[14:01:06] <OndraSter> SO MUCH WORK!
[14:01:12] <yunta_> lol, I'll fix that
[14:01:17] <yunta_> later :P
[14:01:19] <specing> and for it to still be hackable
[14:01:52] <Malinuss> cool, I look into it
[14:02:31] <Malinuss> OndraSter, so the http://myxboard.net/ is your own project?
[14:02:35] <OndraSter> yes
[14:02:44] <OndraSter> XBoard Minis will be available hopefuly very soon
[14:02:54] <OndraSter> 128k flash/8k RAM, USB, DAC, DMA, ..
[14:03:16] <hackvana> Malinuss: Start simple.
[14:03:30] <Malinuss> hackvana, ?
[14:03:35] <hackvana> Otherwise you won't know WTF is going on.
[14:04:12] <hackvana> Get an 8-bit board like the Teensy 2, and when you've worked that out, go to an XMega or ARM.
[14:04:36] <OndraSter> well you can start with xmega, it is not *that* different to mega really
[14:04:36] <Malinuss> hackvana, Well I'm not saying I know everything thats goin on, on my 8-bit. I still have the whole usb part of my teensy 2 to figure out (and some other things too)
[14:04:39] <yunta_> isn't teensy closed and windows only crap?
[14:04:47] <OndraSter> teensy = arduino
[14:04:51] <OndraSter> (almost)
[14:04:59] <hackvana> No, I use it with Linux
[14:05:15] <hackvana> Proprietary bootloader and PC program though
[14:05:24] <yunta_> pc program?
[14:05:29] <TechIsCool> OndraSter: What is d1 and d2 on the Xboard Mini?
[14:05:38] <Malinuss> yunta, well I just use the atmel studio and pure avr-c for it... And yeah it comes with a bootloader that makes it possible to load .hex files via usb
[14:05:50] <OndraSter> TechIsCool, d1?
[14:05:51] <OndraSter> brb
[14:06:17] <TechIsCool> OndraSter: They are connected to the USB ports D+ and D-
[14:06:26] <OndraSter> oh
[14:06:29] <OndraSter> those are ESD suppressors
[14:06:33] <OndraSter> those are not on the new boards
[14:06:46] <OndraSter> I replaced them with single "chip" that does full ESD protection
[14:06:56] <OndraSter> I will have got three more XBoard cocos too
[14:07:01] <OndraSter> the breadboard ones
[14:07:06] <OndraSter> Minis will be arduino compatible form
[14:07:09] <TechIsCool> just to protect the user from killing the chip
[14:07:18] <Malinuss> OndraSter, how much would it cost for the XBoard mini?
[14:07:19] <OndraSter> one of many ways to do so, yes
[14:07:42] <OndraSter> Malinuss, 19€ + shipping I think
[14:07:56] <OndraSter> aye, 14 for breadboard, 19 for arduino
[14:08:01] <OndraSter> (don't have breadboard one)
[14:08:04] <Malinuss> okay thanks
[14:08:09] <Malinuss> arduino?
[14:08:10] <OndraSter> shipping is 5 eur
[14:08:16] <OndraSter> yes, arduino sized one
[14:08:19] <OndraSter> compatible with arduino shields
[14:08:23] <OndraSter> (as long as they can take 3.3V)
[14:08:47] <Malinuss> ah well, arduino shields are super-expensive anyway :)
[14:08:51] <nn7> ug, I'm completely stuck. Every alternative way I think of doing this still gives me issues.
[14:09:07] <OndraSter> Malinuss, http://clip2net.com/s/2xz0D
[14:09:09] <OndraSter> it looks like this
[14:09:17] <OndraSter> it has got SMPS and microSD slot on the board
[14:09:30] <specing> nn7: how about taking a piece of A4 paper and first drafting what you want?
[14:09:50] <TechIsCool> OndraSter: That looks totally different.
[14:09:56] <Malinuss> SMPS? so it would run with different V?
[14:09:59] <Malinuss> sources
[14:10:21] <TechIsCool> nm that's an arduino layout thats why
[14:10:29] <nn7> specing, I don't know what I would draw
[14:10:45] <nn7> I want to read from a buffer in a loop and write to a buffer in an interrupt
[14:11:02] <nn7> and I can't figure out how to keep them from colliding
[14:12:00] <OndraSter> Malinuss, it takes 4.5 - 24V in
[14:12:05] <OndraSter> TechIsCool, :)
[14:13:01] <nn7> http://pastebin.com/9e548q2g
[14:13:27] <nn7> one thought was to have the uart do the shrinking as well, but it may not fire often enough
[14:13:46] <nn7> the next idea was to have the uart write someplace else and merge the buffers in the main code, but the problem remains
[14:14:09] <nn7> I can't guarantee that the main loop will complete before the next interrupt
[14:14:52] <OndraSter> huh are you sure you do not want to do FIFO?
[14:14:58] <OndraSter> (sorry I have missed your beginning)
[14:15:12] <yunta_> nn7: you do know you can stop interrupts for your critical section, do you?
[14:15:13] <nn7> FIFO would be fine, I am just not sure how to implement such a thing
[14:16:15] <nn7> yunta_, I thought about that, would I have to manually check the flag then when I turn interrupts back on?
[14:16:32] <yunta_> no
[14:16:40] <yunta_> afaik
[14:16:58] <yunta_> all "queued" interrupts will be triggered after you enable ints
[14:17:14] <yunta_> (it's not really queuing, but flagging)
[14:17:33] <OndraSter> <yunta_> all "queued" interrupts will be triggered after you enable ints
[14:17:34] <OndraSter> yes
[14:17:44] <nn7> ahh.. so the flag is set, and just fires the interrupt when the global interrupts are turned back on?
[14:18:17] <yunta_> yes
[14:18:19] <OndraSter> aye
[14:18:21] <OndraSter> based on its number
[14:18:23] <nn7> ok, that makes things much easier
[14:18:29] <OndraSter> (since mega hasn't got any priority interrupt options)
[14:18:46] <nn7> thanks everyone!
[14:20:45] <Malinuss> okay I think I know what I want. So are there any other 32-bit uC boards then the teensy 3, you guys could sugest? Also price is pretty important because the teensy 3 is only 19$+shipping..
[14:20:48] <nn7> is there a nice way to shrink an array?
[14:20:56] <OndraSter> shrink?
[14:20:58] <OndraSter> realloc?
[14:21:04] <nn7> in Matlab I would newarray = oldarray[5:10]
[14:21:15] <OndraSter> or are they static?
[14:21:38] <nn7> OndraSter, I don't understand the question
[14:22:24] <nn7> "no static at all.."
[14:22:31] <nn7> what do you mean by static?
[14:22:52] <OndraSter> are they int array[50];
[14:23:00] <OndraSter> or int *array = malloc(50 * sizeof(int));
[14:23:23] <nn7> int array[50]
[14:23:46] <OndraSter> then you can not resize that
[14:24:32] <nn7> my idea is for (i=0;i<45;i++) newbuffer[i]=oldbuffer[i+5];
[14:24:45] <OndraSter> duh what are you trying to do?
[14:24:46] <yunta_> read about circular buffers
[14:24:54] <OndraSter> aye
[14:25:03] <OndraSter> one fixed size array and two "pointers" to this array
[14:25:05] <OndraSter> rd and wr
[14:25:30] <nn7> I know I've implemented a circular buffer before, just need to remember all the fine details
[14:25:33] <nn7> thanks again
[14:26:32] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> one fixed size array and two "pointers" to this array
[14:26:32] <OndraSter> <OndraSter> rd and wr
[14:26:36] <OndraSter> that's all you need to know pretty much :D
[14:26:39] <nn7> it's the overflow that gets me :)
[14:26:45] <specing> packets in a circular buffer :)
[14:27:08] <OndraSter> specing, aye, I want to make ENC424J600 driver and it uses circular buffer for all the rx packets
[14:27:14] <OndraSter> (just as for tx, but you can manage those yourself)
[14:33:06] <OndraSter> so, I need to hack solaris 5.10 (10.5) somehow
[14:33:09] <OndraSter> it is 7 years old system
[14:33:16] <OndraSter> there surely ARE some holes
[14:33:20] <OndraSter> I don't care if I shut it down, delete /usr/bin or whatever
[14:33:28] <OndraSter> I just want to make it unoperational
[14:34:25] <specing> thin clients ? :D
[14:34:48] <yunta_> university?
[14:36:25] <OndraSter> aye
[14:36:26] <OndraSter> (to both)
[16:09:39] <OndraSter> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Mega-CMOS-camera-module-MT9D112-PLCC24-/280910874256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416797c690
[16:09:41] <OndraSter> well this is cheap
[16:09:45] <OndraSter> get PLCC24 socket
[16:11:54] <Horologium> http://chuckleaduck.com/comic/coming-soon-to-a-station-near-you/
[16:46:57] <jadew> damn it, quitting coke is a nightmare, the headaches are incredible!
[16:47:22] <jadew> can barely concentrate on this thing
[16:47:23] <OndraSter> which coke?
[16:47:30] <jadew> coca cola
[16:47:34] <OndraSter> oh
[16:47:38] <OndraSter> I have never enjoyed coke
[16:47:41] <OndraSter> THAT coke
[16:48:06] <jadew> it used to sustain me trough many nights
[16:48:37] <Horologium> bah...alternate dew and dr pepper....forget that coke shit.
[16:48:51] <jadew> yeah, I'm on dr pepper right now
[16:48:53] <Tom_itx> none of them are good for you
[16:48:58] <Horologium> so?
[16:49:01] <Tom_itx> quit while you're ahead
[16:49:04] <Horologium> these days breathing is not good for you.
[16:49:09] <Tom_itx> you want high blood pressure?
[16:49:15] <Horologium> have it.
[16:49:16] <Tom_itx> i had to quit
[16:49:24] <jadew> yeah, I have that as well
[16:49:26] <Tom_itx> but i went thru alot
[16:49:26] <Horologium> went off soda for a year.
[16:49:29] <Horologium> didn't do any good.
[16:49:37] <Horologium> and I got sick of plain water.
[16:49:53] <Horologium> and I do drink the horrid stuff too...diet!
[16:50:00] <Horologium> all them toxic chemicals.
[16:50:04] <Tom_itx> i'll never drink diet anything
[16:50:08] <jadew> oh, a good alternative is sparkling water, you can lie yourself with that when quitting
[16:50:17] <Horologium> jadew, eeewww.
[16:50:30] <Horologium> if it has bubbles it best have taste.
[16:50:42] <Horologium> friend of mine drinks water-jo....caffeinated water.
[16:50:46] <Horologium> and makes espresso with it.
[16:50:50] <jadew> lol
[16:51:18] <Tom_itx> i had a headache for a week when i quit
[16:52:12] <jadew> I've had my headaches since yesterday, but now it's worse
[16:52:24] <Tom_itx> i quit all together
[16:52:37] <Horologium> I gave up sex.
[16:52:40] <jadew> lol
[16:52:42] <Horologium> was forced to when I got married.
[16:52:45] <Horologium> [:
[16:52:51] <Tom_itx> just shoot me now if that happens
[16:52:53] <Tom_itx> oh
[16:52:54] <jadew> haha, I'm gonna get married next year
[16:52:56] <Tom_itx> well yeah
[16:52:58] <Tom_itx> that happens
[16:53:08] <Tom_itx> jadew oh god no!!
[16:53:26] <jadew> well, I'm gonna have a kid so we have to do it sooner than I was hopping
[16:53:27] <Horologium> getting married was the biggest mistake I ever made...and the best thing I ever did..
[16:53:28] <Tom_itx> better get all you want now then
[16:53:34] <Horologium> did I mention I've been married 3 times?
[16:53:44] <Tom_itx> no
[16:53:45] <Horologium> first two were mistake.
[16:53:49] <Horologium> third was a good thing.
[16:53:55] <Tom_itx> hope so
[16:53:55] <jadew> damn
[16:54:00] <jadew> how old are you?
[16:54:05] <Horologium> 45
[16:54:21] <jadew> and when did you get married first?
[16:54:21] <Horologium> first time was for 7 years, second time 1 year, third time is now just over 10 years.
[16:54:30] <jadew> nice
[16:54:36] <Horologium> I was 22 the first time.
[16:54:43] <specing> jadew: Why do you have to get married?
[16:55:09] <jadew> specing, well, with the kid on the way, it kinda makes sense for both his parents to have the same las name
[16:55:15] <jadew> I've been ditching this bullet for a long while
[16:55:39] <Tom_itx> sounds like you may not quite be ready for it
[16:55:39] <specing> jadew: Why?
[16:55:58] <jadew> specing, makes my g/f happy
[16:56:13] <Tom_itx> and that's what it's all about?
[16:56:30] <jadew> I knew it's gonna happen at some point and I knew it's going to be with her, but I just couldn't let go to the "not married" status until now
[16:57:46] <specing> jadew: Its still pointless
[16:57:58] <jadew> I have a huge fear of marriage tbh, but the pressure is too big, so screw it, gonna do it
[16:58:01] <jadew> specing, I know
[16:58:17] <specing> I guess it makes sense if you are religeous
[16:58:30] <specing> gah I don't even know if I spelled that right
[16:58:35] <jadew> lol
[16:59:43] <Tom_itx> just don't walk into it for the wrong reasons
[16:59:47] <jadew> girls will never accept that you can be together for a lifetime with out the paper
[16:59:56] <specing> my mother did
[17:00:08] <Tom_itx> they hook you and then they feel they own you
[17:00:39] <jadew> yeah, I don't think I'll allow that to happen
[17:00:47] <jadew> I've seen it happen with my dad
[17:00:52] <jadew> he's on his 3rd wife now as well
[17:06:26] <Horologium> oh, only my second wife
[17:06:36] <Horologium> married, divorced, married, and divorced the first one.
[17:06:42] <Horologium> yes, I was young and very stupid.
[17:06:45] <Horologium> but the sex was good.
[17:10:27] <specing> atleast something
[17:13:15] <Malinuss> I've been asking about what devboards you guys would sugest to go with as the "next step" after 8-bit uC. I guess what I'm looking for is to try and set up a very simple CPU with a few peripherals to control and run it. What do you guys think about that idea?
[17:13:27] <yunta_> university?
[17:13:37] <yunta_> uh, accidental up+enter
[17:13:44] <Malinuss> I've been asking about what devboards you guys would sugest to go with as the "next step" after 8-bit uC. I guess what I'm looking for is to try and set up a very simple CPU with a few peripherals to control and run it. What do you guys think about that idea?
[17:13:59] <Malinuss> lol
[17:14:26] <Malinuss> did I just press up+enter just to see what happens, even though I knew, if I thought about it...
[17:14:32] <yunta_> lol
[17:14:46] <yunta_> what's you point in general? what do you want to learn?
[17:14:57] <yunta_> why would you like to understand hairy details of cpu work?
[17:15:26] <yunta_> do you realize how hairy it is, with all that virtual memory, shitload of addressing, .....
[17:16:01] <jadew> not to mention that from what I've seen so far you havne't got the 8 bit mcu down either
[17:16:52] <yunta_> Malinuss: what turns you on? learning about cpus? or getting things done?
[17:17:05] <Malinuss> jadew, I haven't, not at all! thats why I'm saying "next step". there is shitload I don't know about 8 bit mcu yet. neverless I'm already looking forward, thats just how I am
[17:17:10] <Malinuss> yunta, deffinetly learning
[17:17:36] <yunta_> is it the power you feel when cpu does exactly what you want ?
[17:18:21] <Malinuss> yunta_, yes I want something like this. something along the feeling I've got when I started the shift from arduino to avr-c and actually started to understand (at least on the surface), what is going on
[17:18:32] <jadew> heh, I think you mean "relief" as in... "pfew.. finally working!"
[17:19:02] <yunta_> :D
[17:19:21] <yunta_> Malinuss: what about just jumping straight to pc? like exploring linux kernel?
[17:19:28] <Malinuss> jadew, yes, that is the best feelign ever. I like spending 99% of the time frustrated and the 1% in nirvana because things works. hehe
[17:19:34] <OndraSter_> yunta_, he didn't say suicide
[17:19:42] <yunta_> you could start with surprisingly simple but interesting parts like scheduler
[17:20:03] <OndraSter_> some small rtos for 8bit MCUs without hardware support for tasks/.. is a nice thing too
[17:20:36] <Malinuss> yunta_, I've been thinking about that, but that seems like a gigantic step from a 8-bit mcu. I even thought about buying something like rPI for that. it just seems so very overhelming
[17:20:38] <OndraSter_> hell, linux 0.01 source is available
[17:20:57] <specing> Malinuss: try 16-bit MSP then
[17:21:03] <specing> devboards are $4.3
[17:21:29] <Malinuss> specing, MSP?
[17:21:41] <OndraSter_> msp430 has no special peripherals really
[17:21:49] <specing> Malinuss: g.o.o.g.l.e
[17:21:58] <OndraSter_> msp430 is nothing special other than low power and cheap
[17:22:05] <specing> and 16-bit
[17:22:12] <OndraSter_> and that
[17:22:24] <OndraSter_> and you do not usually do ASM on that, I see people doing only C on that
[17:22:52] <jadew> I didn't see anything special on the MSP ones either
[17:22:57] <specing> whatever
[17:23:02] <jadew> granted, I only checked the datasheet for one of them, only once
[17:23:09] <specing> Im getting the stellarises in like 15 days
[17:23:37] <OndraSter_> I can't find my email that I ordered them NOR I don't have them in my list of orders.. :D
[17:23:43] <OndraSter_> which is weird
[17:23:48] <OndraSter_> because I remember I ordered them
[17:23:59] <OndraSter_> with preliminary ship date in the middle of december
[17:24:05] <specing> well I see the order on estore.ti.com
[17:24:27] <OndraSter_> yay estore.ti.com hasn't got proper ssl cert
[17:24:31] <OndraSter_> or something
[17:24:44] <specing> CA system is broken anyway
[17:25:13] <Malinuss> specing, before doing to much of that "google" thing you are talking about. So developing for a 16-bit uC from TI (thats what the MSP is, r-right?), would be like dev for a CPU or what am I looking for here?
[17:25:30] <OndraSter_> that depends WHAT do you want from the MCU
[17:26:03] <OndraSter_> what kind of peripherals
[17:26:45] <Malinuss> control it on register level (preferably with C), and try a few peripherals, well obviously something that could end up giving some feedback would be nice (so something that could give me a few I/0 pins?)
[17:27:13] <OndraSter_> how would that be different from Atmega?
[17:27:20] <OndraSter_> with C you do not care about 8/16/32bit
[17:27:31] <specing> actually you do
[17:27:42] <specing> but very little
[17:27:43] <Malinuss> well when I write to a register, I do?
[17:27:44] <OndraSter_> if you are talking CPU clocks... yes
[17:27:55] <OndraSter_> when you are writing to a register you have got just twice as much bits, nothing else
[17:27:56] <Malinuss> it matter what size it is, after all?
[17:28:04] <Malinuss> well yeah
[17:29:00] <Malinuss> the difference would be how it's used to intefer with the peripherals, because well I though (maybe wrongly?), that a cpu would just have the cpu, and not all kind of things like the uC?
[17:29:16] <Malinuss> so you need to add some sRAM, if you want ram etc.
[17:29:18] <OndraSter_> but msp430 is uC
[17:29:30] <OndraSter_> if you want external RAM and flash and such you are not talking $10 dev kits
[17:29:32] <Malinuss> yeah thats why I'm asking why specing sugested it
[17:31:00] <Malinuss> is it really that expensive? well I thought I could use something like the Z80, smack it on my breadboard, somehow burn some code to a external flash chip, and have some ram too for it to use?
[17:31:18] <OndraSter_> Z80 is old
[17:31:35] <Malinuss> yeah well it looks simple :)
[17:33:14] <OndraSter_> it is useless to mess with such systems
[17:33:18] <OndraSter_> nowadays you use SOC stuff
[17:34:06] <jadew> now this Z80 talk put me in the mood for some old sci-fi movies
[17:34:14] <OndraSter_> HAL?
[17:34:24] <jadew> hardware access layer?
[17:34:26] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, well don't you think that kind of system would learn me something about how "SOC stuff" that right now is auto-magic for me, works?
[17:34:55] <OndraSter_> jadew, HAL3000
[17:35:11] <jadew> haven't seen it
[17:35:18] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, read "Build your own Z80 computer"
[17:35:21] <OndraSter_> it is for free on the internet
[17:35:44] <OndraSter_> and then try something useful
[17:36:38] <Malinuss> oh thanks! I've been looking for "guides" etc. but this seems much better.. what do you mean "and then try something useful"?
[17:40:32] <OndraSter_> something more modern
[17:40:38] <OndraSter_> something with what you can come in contact with
[17:40:54] <OndraSter_> some ARMs (AT91SAM9 series for example) support external NAND + RAM
[17:41:10] <OndraSter_> but they boot off internal ones where you have got small bootloader which brings up the external interfaces first
[17:45:14] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, thanks for the tips!
[17:45:25] <OndraSter_> np
[17:45:31] <yunta_> gn
[17:45:33] <OndraSter_> gn
[17:45:50] <OndraSter_> not sure about the AT91SAM9 supporting external NAND - I know that some others from NXP? TI? support it
[17:46:40] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, I'm not starting with all this just yet, I still have a lot to learn about my 8-bit, just wanna test the waters and do some reading
[17:50:49] <OndraSter_> if you want to learn about how USB works, DMA, ethernet, .. then grab something *smaller* than full blown device that runs linux
[17:53:56] <OndraSter_> that's why I like xmega. It is 8bit AVR core but offers peripherals that common chips just don't have
[17:54:21] <OndraSter_> usual chips have got either external interfaces, ethernets
[17:54:27] <OndraSter_> but no ADCs, no nothing
[17:54:41] <OndraSter_> OR they have got ADC, DACs, PWM, .. but not external interfaces
[17:55:49] <OndraSter_> also they run at 600MHz or <= 100MHz
[17:55:53] <OndraSter_> (exceptions do exist)
[17:56:41] <jadew> wait
[17:56:47] <jadew> what runs at 600Mhz?
[17:57:24] <OndraSter_> ARM chips
[17:57:27] <OndraSter_> Cortex A8/..
[17:57:34] <OndraSter_> external RAM and NAND
[17:57:41] <jadew> ah
[17:58:04] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, mind linking to the devboards you are selling again, wanna compare them to the one I have one
[18:00:24] <OndraSter_> http://myxboard.net
[18:00:27] <OndraSter_> it is the XBoard Mini
[18:01:23] <OndraSter_> I suggest grab atxmega a4u series datasheet
[18:01:26] <OndraSter_> and check the peripherals :)
[18:02:18] <OndraSter_> http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8387.pdf
[18:02:21] <OndraSter_> holy crap 33MB
[18:02:26] <Malinuss> I have the atmega32u4 right now, OndraSter_
[18:02:48] <Malinuss> so I have the usb and a few other periphwerals to play along with
[18:02:59] <OndraSter_> atmega is nothing compared to xmega :)
[18:04:35] <Horologium> OndraSter_, do you sell the boards populated or just plain?
[18:04:48] <OndraSter_> populated of course
[18:04:52] <OndraSter_> do you want plain? :D
[18:05:22] <Horologium> no, but the pictures are all unpopulated.
[18:05:40] <OndraSter_> of course, they are from 3D gerber view :)
[18:05:44] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, you are already selling btw.?
[18:05:45] <OndraSter_> I will make real life pictures
[18:05:50] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, I sold two cocos
[18:05:57] <OndraSter_> aka what I had :)
[18:06:08] <Malinuss> "cocos"?
[18:06:10] <Malinuss> hehe
[18:06:13] <OndraSter_> XBoard coco
[18:06:22] <Malinuss> oh the big one
[18:06:25] <OndraSter_> they didn't have my bootloader yet
[18:06:26] <OndraSter_> middle one
[18:06:32] <OndraSter_> biggest flash though
[18:06:34] <Malinuss> ah
[18:07:14] <Malinuss> oh the 19$ is *with* shipping to eu. I thought that was the price without
[18:07:20] <Malinuss> *€
[18:07:23] <OndraSter_> no
[18:07:26] <OndraSter_> 19 + 5 shipping
[18:07:29] <Horologium> the one with external ram interface, can that execute code from the external ram?
[18:07:32] <OndraSter_> 14 applies only to the breadboard one
[18:07:37] <OndraSter_> Horologium, no
[18:07:53] <Horologium> still limited to executing from flash, eh?
[18:07:59] <OndraSter_> of course, it is harvard
[18:08:04] <Malinuss> "breadboard" one?
[18:08:16] <Horologium> so is the 8052 but I can execute code from external ram/rom
[18:08:24] <Malinuss> so the one for 19+5 is for the arduino looking-one?
[18:08:27] <Horologium> it's just a lot slower.
[18:08:33] <OndraSter_> yes, all the boards except Ultra have got options for breadboard form AND arduino sized ones
[18:08:38] <OndraSter_> yes
[18:08:42] <OndraSter_> arduino ones are +5e
[18:08:53] <OndraSter_> microSD slot, SMPS instead of LDO, bigger board are not cheap
[18:09:16] <Malinuss> just wondering, why would it cost 5€ to make it arduino sized? Is the pcb that expensive?
[18:09:28] <OndraSter_> actually it is +4e, I need to update the price, importing the parts was ridiculously expensive :(
[18:09:34] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, parts
[18:09:38] <OndraSter_> and board does not fit 5x5
[18:09:41] <OndraSter_> but 10x10
[18:09:48] <OndraSter_> which costs nearly 3 times as much
[18:09:57] <Malinuss> ah
[18:10:05] <OndraSter_> because it is 5.2x5.3 or so
[18:10:13] <OndraSter_> and they do only *5
[18:10:39] <Horologium> that arduino board size is kinda odd.
[18:10:45] <OndraSter_> arduino
[18:10:46] <OndraSter_> ..
[18:11:01] <OndraSter_> they have got two headers spaced between themselves 0.05" instead of regular 0.1"
[18:11:12] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, I just hope you are not from syria/libya/iran
[18:11:19] <OndraSter_> I am not allowed to export xmegas there :D
[18:11:20] <Malinuss> lol
[18:11:36] <Malinuss> because of the radioactive stuff they have inside?
[18:11:41] <OndraSter_> no
[18:11:47] <OndraSter_> because of the AES/DES crypto they have inside
[18:11:53] <OndraSter_> it is military supposedly by US laws
[18:12:29] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, what is that?
[18:12:31] <specing> OndraSter_: ship them anyway
[18:13:03] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, no idea, it is some US law
[18:13:13] <OndraSter_> and 128bit AES is considered as military equipment
[18:13:18] <OndraSter_> specing, I already lied once :D
[18:13:20] <OndraSter_> actually twice
[18:14:59] <OndraSter_> I am off
[18:15:02] <OndraSter_> school tomorrow
[18:15:03] <OndraSter_> today*
[18:15:04] <OndraSter_> gn
[18:16:03] <Malinuss> gn
[18:24:52] <specing> fucking uni
[18:24:54] <specing> gn
[18:51:16] <Malinuss> anyone still on here?
[19:01:05] <slidercrank> maybe
[19:02:51] <Malinuss> just wondering if it would ever be possible to do something like ethernet, simply using the I/0 pins..
[19:03:04] <Malinuss> well maybe something between to get the right current etc.
[19:12:06] <devcoder> Does anyone know if magjacks with the magnetics have to be configured a certain way for different ethernet speeds. Does software have to be written differently for each?
[19:12:30] <devcoder> I have an enc28j60 with the spark fun magjack using tux graphics software and can't seem to get a good reliable connection
[19:12:48] <devcoder> i get a ping reply once in a great while
[19:14:52] <devcoder> seems so close to working but just not. the software has an led on a pin on the micro to toggle it if it receives a bit for itself, it does so pretty much every seconds as expected but hiccups every now and again. but still I get no ping reply back
[19:15:10] <devcoder> the micro is an atmega644p if that matters
[19:15:26] <Malinuss> devcoder, haha seems I might as well forget about doing it with nothing then :)
[19:16:33] <devcoder> Malinuss lol
[19:16:59] <devcoder> been trying to get this to work the last two days or so. arrrgh
[19:18:01] <rue_shop3> I should play with mine
[19:18:08] <rue_shop3> devcoder, what avr are you using?
[19:19:48] <devcoder> rue_shop3. its an atmega644p connected to an enc28j60 ethernet chip with a spark fun magjack PRT-08534
[19:20:20] <devcoder> running the test1 software from tux graphics eth_rem_dev_tcp-2.17
[19:20:39] <devcoder> all its supposed to do at the moment is reply to a ping request
[19:21:18] <devcoder> does so every once in a great while otherwise i get a request timed out
[19:22:24] <devcoder> i have seen may people use this combo and have it work, but maybe with different software
[19:22:48] <devcoder> wondering if the software has to be written differently then what I am currently using to try to make it work
[19:47:11] <devcoder_> Well i guess i answered my own question here. have a pre built circuit with the eth chip and its own magjack. Wired it up and works fine
[19:47:40] <devcoder_> so for what ever reason looks like there software doesn't like the spark fun magjack. have to order a few others to test
[20:10:58] <Horologium> interesting.
[20:11:09] <Horologium> I rip magjacks out of dead wifi routers.
[20:14:15] <Horologium> http://www.epanorama.net/blog/2011/10/30/bitbang-ethernet/ to answer the earlier question from malinuss who has left, yes, kinda, it is possible to send ethernet packets without an ethernet chip, just bitbanging it.
[20:15:32] <Horologium> http://www.cesko.host.sk/IgorPlugUDP/IgorPlug-UDP%20%28AVR%29_eng.htm better site for it..
[20:21:20] <devcoder_> thats pretty sweet
[20:26:57] <Horologium> that from the same guy who first came up with bitbanged USB on the AVR...before the vUSB people did their own up commercially.
[20:31:33] <james-jones> is AVR and x86 related?
[20:33:38] <Tom_itx> not so much
[21:07:30] <eadthem> damm 600MB for avrstudio (Required for my avrispII
[21:11:11] <Tom_itx> use avrdude
[21:28:25] <eadthem> k so whats the best communication method to link several chips over a decent distance
[21:28:40] <eadthem> say end to end cable lenght 300 foot
[21:28:50] <Casper> at what speed?
[21:29:09] <eadthem> nothing fast
[21:29:28] <Casper> 1 wire I think goes to 1000ft
[21:29:51] <Casper> and that differential... rs422?
[21:30:23] <eadthem> via atmel so idealy something built in to a mega16 or similar chip
[21:30:47] <eadthem> 1000 baud would be wonderful
[21:31:08] <eadthem> 9600 would be more than i think i would ever need
[21:31:14] <Casper> 1 wire would be doable, rs422? just need a transceiver
[21:31:14] <eadthem> but might be handy
[21:34:53] <eric_j> rs485, if you can make do with half-duplex
[21:35:00] <eadthem> how helpful would dif signaling be?
[21:36:09] <eadthem> my orginal plan was using 6 wire cable
[21:36:24] <eadthem> 4 wires for power
[21:36:27] <Casper> yeah 485!
[21:36:30] <eadthem> 1 wire for clock
[21:36:34] <eadthem> 1 wire for data
[21:37:22] * eadthem locates the spool of wire he bought for the project years ago
[21:37:41] <Casper> does anyone have an idea what happend with reversed phone polarity?
[21:37:54] <Casper> does it cause any issue?
[21:41:09] <eadthem> i dont think it did
[21:41:17] <eadthem> i think maby it caused some distortion
[21:41:48] <eadthem> not sure even that tip and ring reffer to a old swichpanel
[21:42:04] <MrTrick> I've got a small motor that has about 80-90mA stall current. Think I can wire to 3 avr IO pins and drive it directly? Or 6 for H-bridge control?
[21:46:58] <Casper> eadthem: it does refer to the 1/4 jack they were using in the old time at the CO....
[22:02:19] <eadthem> my only issue with TWI 2 wire bus is i realy need 32bit packets or atleast 16bit
[22:02:40] <eadthem> 8 for sender 8 for recever 8 for type 8 for data
[22:08:37] <Casper> I think that 9 bits long bytes can be interresting
[22:08:48] <Casper> you can use the 9th bit as a packet start
[22:08:55] <Casper> easy to sync
[22:09:04] <Casper> and 9 bits is supported by the avr
[22:09:11] <eadthem> looks like after sending the target address i can keep sending data
[22:25:55] <TechIsCool> Alright first attempt at making my board. DRC has not be run yet so I know there are issues just wanted general fedback http://techiscool.com/eagle/Outline_board.pdf
[22:28:52] <eadthem> pad pitch on your tqfp may be a bit wide
[22:29:35] <eadthem> your small 8 pin part square vias are a bit close to each other and to the pins on that part
[22:29:43] <eadthem> c10 via issues
[22:30:03] <eadthem> ya your via to traice clearance is probably not good across the board
[22:30:58] <TechIsCool> Yah I don't think so its complaining all over but its a start :)
[22:32:11] <eadthem> remeber stick to 10 thou track and space
[22:32:42] <eadthem> and dont get things closer than you need them to be
[22:32:59] <eadthem> round vias will be more reliable for track and space and board makeing
[22:33:06] <TechIsCool> So I still don't know how to do ground planes and I know I need to look that up. The other thing is I was using 24 mill for power and 12 mill for i/o
[22:33:09] <eadthem> square vais are better for duarabilty but dont matter much
[22:33:28] <eadthem> 24 thou shuld be ok for low power
[22:33:37] <eadthem> how many amps
[22:34:18] <eadthem> C5 C4 you can rearrange them with 1 or 2 less vias
[22:34:51] <TechIsCool> 300mA per led channel so just under an amp total and then 200mA for ldo
[22:35:00] <eadthem> dont worry so much about neetly lineing up like components
[22:35:05] <TechIsCool> so 1.1Amp
[22:35:16] <eadthem> o this is a LED driver
[22:36:43] <eadthem> do you have the schmatic
[22:37:07] <eadthem> R2 R3 the zig zag thing under parts
[22:37:09] <eadthem> dont do that
[22:37:26] <TechIsCool> eadthem: http://www.micro-bridge.com/data/CRpowtech/PT4115E.pdf
[22:37:54] <eadthem> the zig zag can cause trace to solder shorts under parts
[22:38:05] <TechIsCool> alright, so just flip it
[22:38:18] <eadthem> you can run wirs strait under resistors but dont zigzag unless most of the zigzag is not under the part
[22:38:34] <eadthem> well that whole area i think you can eliminate several vias, dont try to till you save a backup
[22:39:13] <TechIsCool> you mean a single wire between the resistors
[22:39:48] <eadthem> you have your schmatic?
[22:39:53] <TechIsCool> yup
[22:40:04] <TechIsCool> http://techiscool.com/eagle/outlinev2.pdf
[22:40:49] <eadthem> k the base of the 1117 run that thrue the middle between its legs
[22:41:04] <eadthem> flip c5 so that works out
[22:41:20] <eadthem> then remove the via by R2 by running its wire down to the 1117 base
[22:41:27] <eadthem> that takes 2 vias out
[22:41:30] <eadthem> 2 drill holes
[22:41:33] <eadthem> 2 points of failure
[22:42:13] <TechIsCool> alright I will also go through and see if I can optimize vias and remove them
[22:42:22] <eadthem> it removes the zig zag under C5 and C4 witch would be rotated afterwards and lets the power pin nearist the edge of the board go right to the caps
[22:42:38] <eadthem> the idea is a via is 1/3 as conductive as a traice
[22:42:41] <eadthem> trace
[22:42:53] <eadthem> when a board is made say 1 ounce copper
[22:43:09] <eadthem> they start with 1/2 ounce copper
[22:43:33] <eadthem> they mask the copper drill the holes and then conuctise the holes
[22:43:44] <eadthem> then they strip the mask and plate the whole board up to 1 ounce copper
[22:43:45] <TechIsCool> ah makes sense
[22:43:52] <eadthem> vais then are only 1/2 ounce
[22:44:11] <eadthem> the mask is on there to protect the copper from oxygen mostly
[22:44:29] <eadthem> its not alwasy there on all board houses
[22:45:12] <eadthem> mmm trying to remeber the steps been a while
[22:45:25] <eadthem> vias are done before etching
[22:46:57] <eadthem> my best sugestion is
[22:47:04] <eadthem> dont break your schmatic up unless you need to
[22:47:17] <eadthem> instead arrange it how it will be layed out on the board as best as you can
[22:47:23] <TechIsCool> makes it harder to read
[22:47:25] <eadthem> then lay the board out like that and then start takeing the slack out
[22:47:42] <eadthem> its a 1/1 thing you can do it how you did it and the sch is easy
[22:48:01] <eadthem> you can do it how the board is layed out and then the layout will be very clean because its easer to stop overlaps in the sch
[22:48:07] <TechIsCool> alright I will try that this was my first go at it ever with this kind of board
[22:48:24] <eadthem> tbh its a decent layout for a first biard
[22:48:25] <eadthem> board
[22:48:30] <TechIsCool> thanks
[22:48:47] <eadthem> just try to shorten the distace between your bypass capacitors and there rails in out and ground pour
[22:49:17] <eadthem> also if you need clean power add a .1 or .01 uf cap to the output on your 1117's
[22:49:28] <eadthem> 10uf ceramic will do ok by its self
[22:49:44] <eadthem> but not great at the mhz and above area
[22:50:45] <eadthem> your also constrained by where you can put stuff because of your LED
[22:51:14] <TechIsCool> not only that but board size since I am placing it on the top of a intel heatskin
[22:51:18] <TechIsCool> heatsink
[22:51:41] <eadthem> if you flip IND1 and IND2 pins on the led you can undo that in software but have dropped 2 vais in the LED power trace
[22:52:16] <TechIsCool> I see
[22:52:53] <eadthem> R9 you can undo the via at the bottom by running the small trace around the pad and then run the power trace from the 6 pin chip above directly to the resistor
[22:55:27] <eadthem> quadruple the thickness on your ground trace to the power side of things
[22:55:45] <eadthem> and just run it on the blue layer vias to everything that need it
[22:55:59] <eadthem> dont think you can avoid it anyhow
[22:56:07] <TechIsCool> well I was just going to ground pour it and then via
[22:56:31] <eadthem> the thcikness prevents it from ever getting to thin
[22:56:45] <eadthem> without that 2 vias on each side could make a thin spot via the DRC
[22:58:33] <eadthem> make your traces alot bigger under the cpu for power and ground
[22:58:44] <eadthem> i dont think you can do much better on there lenghts
[22:59:33] <eadthem> vias near c1 c6 c7 to the ground pour if you can
[23:00:56] <eadthem> this is a arduino thingy?
[23:01:28] <eadthem> i just noticed you had parts on both sides on that area
[23:01:39] <eadthem> put c1 c6 c7 on the bottom side under the cpu
[23:01:54] <eadthem> that will let you get them right on the power pins and on the power and ground pours
[23:02:03] <eadthem> thats a massive deisng change however, and may not be needed.
[23:02:25] <eadthem> well im heading to bed
[23:02:37] <eadthem> thanks i love doing boards
[23:02:49] <TechIsCool> well thank you for the info
[23:02:52] <TechIsCool> have a great night
[23:10:32] <MrTrick> So, anyone want to chime in on whether I could get away with combining multiple I/O pins for higher current? (trying to minimise the BOM, and have plenty of spare pins)
[23:18:57] <TechIsCool> I have seen it said its possibly but never done it myself
[23:23:32] <MrTrick> Right. Well, I guess I shall have to experiment.
[23:45:06] <MrTrick> Do you think two antiseries zener diodes would give enough overload protection for a (tiny) motor?
[23:52:58] <hackvana> overload protection?
[23:53:21] <hackvana> I can imagine two zeners in series back to back would protect the micro/other stuff against back-EMF
[23:53:39] <hackvana> Where the zener voltage is higher than the motor drive voltage
[23:54:47] <MrTrick> yes, that.
[23:56:17] <MrTrick> hmm, the pin diagram shows clamping diodes, maybe I don't need any more than that.