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[03:10:51] <OndraSter_> so it seems that I will be ordering from digikey. I need $200 order though. If ANYBODY wants ANYTHING from digikey and wants cheap shipping (small letter, with insurance from CZE is like $3 tops) I can offer that to you
[03:14:12] <Amadiro> OndraSter_, hm, nothing particular right now :/
[03:14:35] <Amadiro> to busy with exams until christmas to do any cool build projects :/
[03:19:35] <OndraSter_> I should be busy with exams too
[03:19:38] <OndraSter_> ;D
[03:19:39] <OndraSter_> should
[04:27:51] <rue_mohr> hahahah all the twits upgrading to the latest os version every time they come out?
[04:28:44] <rue_mohr> haha a java bug, java sucks
[04:30:58] <Amadiro> wat
[04:32:50] <rue_mohr> " This change of behaviour and lack of documentation on what is intended is the real problem I think. "
[04:33:05] <OndraSter_> forgetting december is a java bug? :P
[04:33:07] <rue_mohr> I dont think anyone can successfully code java programs
[04:33:16] <OndraSter_> haha
[04:33:18] <OndraSter_> java sux, yes
[04:33:36] <Amadiro> what change of behaviour, and what does it have to do with operating system upgrades?
[04:33:46] <Amadiro> feels like I'm missing some context here
[04:33:48] <rue_mohr> my oppinion of java is that its bloatware at a source level
[04:33:51] <OndraSter_> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=39692 Amadiro
[04:34:17] <Amadiro> lol
[04:37:25] <megal0maniac> OndraSter_: How far off are you from $200?
[04:37:54] <OndraSter_> hmm
[04:38:01] <OndraSter_> not sure if I will order 10 or 25 xmegas :)
[04:38:07] <OndraSter_> either a lot or not too far
[04:38:19] <specing> Get some ARMs too
[04:38:22] <specing> :)
[04:38:33] <megal0maniac> Which xmegas? 128a1?
[04:38:35] <OndraSter_> I need to pay VAT for it though
[04:38:38] <OndraSter_> 128a4u
[04:38:42] <OndraSter_> for xboard mini
[04:38:45] <OndraSter_> I changed it from 32a4u
[04:38:46] <megal0maniac> ??
[04:38:50] <megal0maniac> Ah
[04:38:57] <OndraSter_> costs barely half a dolar more for 100s or barely a dollar more for 1pcs
[04:39:12] <megal0maniac> And 1 costs..?
[04:39:15] <OndraSter_> $4.4
[04:39:21] <OndraSter_> 100 is at $2.9 I think
[04:39:29] <OndraSter_> 2.4
[04:39:34] <OndraSter_> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATXMEGA128A4U-AU/ATXMEGA128A4U-AU-ND/3441468
[04:39:46] <megal0maniac> Which form factor are you doing first?
[04:39:55] <OndraSter_> Mini-duino
[04:40:01] <megal0maniac> Meg
[04:40:05] <megal0maniac> Ok
[04:40:56] <megal0maniac> And idea of the pricing?
[04:41:06] <megal0maniac> *Any
[04:41:12] <OndraSter_> I want to price these at around 16€ or thereabouts
[04:41:21] <OndraSter_> arduino ones, breadboard ones around 13€
[04:41:31] <OndraSter_> (smaller board, no SMPS, no microSD slot)
[04:43:41] <megal0maniac> The extra features are attractive
[04:44:09] <OndraSter_> I know, right :)
[04:44:25] <OndraSter_> I switched from xm32 to 128 because 4 times the flash, 2 times the RAM
[04:44:28] <OndraSter_> it is just worth it
[04:44:33] <OndraSter_> let alone if you want to use ethernet with it :D
[04:45:07] <megal0maniac> I agree
[04:45:07] <OndraSter_> the best part is - I can no longer worry about 4kB bootloader size...
[04:45:11] <OndraSter_> now I have got 8kB for BL again :)
[04:45:13] <OndraSter_> even on the smallest board
[04:45:24] <megal0maniac> 128a1 is also 8, right?
[04:45:26] <OndraSter_> and the user still gets full 128kB for him
[04:45:27] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:45:32] <OndraSter_> 128flash => 8kB RAM
[04:45:42] <OndraSter_> 256 flash => 16kB RAM
[04:45:49] <megal0maniac> I like this solution for breadboard layout:
[04:45:50] <OndraSter_> 384 flash (only C series, not interesting one) => 32kB RAM
[04:46:00] <megal0maniac> http://www.pjrc.com/store/sd_adaptor.html
[04:46:10] <OndraSter_> :)
[04:46:35] <megal0maniac> Your width is one notch too wide, though
[04:46:52] <megal0maniac> But that's okay
[04:46:55] <OndraSter_> the chip is too big, I couldn't made it smaller :P
[04:47:02] <OndraSter_> I tried actually :D
[04:47:56] <megal0maniac> I figured. Wouldn't be space to route everything
[04:48:28] <megal0maniac> A jeweller gave me some really nice tweezers the other day
[04:48:28] <Amadiro> OndraSter_, are you soldering these manually
[04:48:45] <Amadiro> otherwise you could probably get QFN or BGA versions that are smaller?
[04:48:45] <megal0maniac> ESD safe? NOOOOOO
[04:49:02] <megal0maniac> The first lot were hand soldered
[04:49:04] <OndraSter_> Amadiro, these already are QFN
[04:49:12] <megal0maniac> BGA? :)
[04:49:15] <OndraSter_> BGA? no way
[04:49:19] <megal0maniac> You were talking about baking them...
[04:49:21] <OndraSter_> yes
[04:49:28] <OndraSter_> in next order I will be getting parts for reflow oven
[04:49:30] <OndraSter_> last missing parts..
[04:50:29] <megal0maniac> So why no BGA?
[04:51:03] <OndraSter_> you can not easily check for soldering
[04:51:09] <OndraSter_> I don't have xray in my shed
[04:51:14] <OndraSter_> like some people :D
[04:51:17] <megal0maniac> You need a better shed
[04:51:48] <Amadiro> well, you can always make a testbed that tests all the connected peripherals
[04:51:54] <OndraSter_> of course
[04:51:55] <Amadiro> but yeah, it's definitely trickier to get right
[04:52:04] <OndraSter_> also it is not possible to route out on 2 layers
[04:52:17] <OndraSter_> well, easy
[04:52:21] <Amadiro> well, depends on the ball spacing and which/how many pins you want to use
[04:52:30] <Amadiro> I've never looked at any bga AVRs
[04:55:26] <OndraSter> damn you my internet!
[04:55:33] <OndraSter> the a3u series hasn't got BGA option
[04:55:39] <Amadiro> too bad
[04:55:41] <OndraSter> only a4u and a1u
[04:55:48] <OndraSter> and even a4u is 7x7
[04:55:50] <OndraSter> with 0.5mm
[04:55:54] <OndraSter> impossible on 2 layers..
[04:56:04] <OndraSter> you'd need 4 layers - separate vcc and gnd layers AT LEAST
[04:56:19] <OndraSter> bottom one for routing and top one for routing out the edge pins
[04:56:23] <OndraSter> that's all you have got
[04:56:55] <Amadiro> yeah, that + the loading would probably push it beyond your current price-point
[04:57:00] <OndraSter> yes
[04:57:15] <OndraSter> 4 layers are much more expensive than 2 layers
[04:58:34] <OndraSter> OR
[04:58:38] <OndraSter> I could get them in raw wafer form :D
[05:00:47] <OndraSter> http://code.google.com/p/autobga/
[05:00:47] <OndraSter> yay
[05:01:17] <Roklobsta> ondraster: i come here at randomish times and you are always here. are you some sort of 'bot
[05:01:48] <OndraSter> some people call me that, yes
[05:08:03] <OndraSter> well
[05:08:03] <OndraSter> http://clip2net.com/s/2w0aH
[05:08:06] <OndraSter> the app does not work that well.
[05:08:40] <specing> we all have 99% uptime ! :D
[05:09:07] <specing> I'll have 100% uptime when I create the Alix battery mod
[05:09:32] <specing> Will solder a cheapass usb to it and use it for ZNC logging ;)
[05:09:57] <Roklobsta> 100% uptime since this morning ?
[05:10:05] <specing> I already wrote a ZNC logging module that buffers lines before flushing them out so it is flash-frendly
[05:10:20] <specing> 4k buffers per channel
[05:13:59] <megal0maniac> specing: Who? Me?
[05:14:59] * megal0maniac considers battery mod for own router
[05:29:00] <specing> ?
[05:29:06] <specing> http://www.1wt.eu/articles/alix-ups/
[05:29:11] <specing> charging a 9V atm
[05:29:29] <specing> will go to a local electronics store for 9v6 zeners tomorrow
[05:33:58] <OndraSter> wow
[05:35:33] <specing> ?
[05:35:45] <OndraSter> 9v running alix?
[05:35:49] <specing> yep
[05:35:55] <OndraSter> 60mAh? :))
[05:35:57] <megal0maniac> specing: Stop it!
[05:36:01] <specing> megal0maniac: what?
[05:36:05] <megal0maniac> You're making me want to buy one
[05:36:09] <megal0maniac> And I can't afford it
[05:36:13] <specing> megal0maniac: an alix?
[05:36:19] <specing> :)
[05:36:23] <specing> go get one :)
[05:36:36] <megal0maniac> But I'm going to spend the money anyway and be poor and have no food and live in a box and DIE
[05:36:46] <specing> I have a super optimized Gentoo image for it ;)
[05:36:46] <OndraSter> eh
[05:37:01] <megal0maniac> Yeah, but I don't want to live in a box
[05:37:03] <specing> outperforms my core2duo laptop >_>
[05:37:56] <OndraSter> then your c2d lappy sucks
[05:38:04] <megal0maniac> So does mine
[05:38:04] <OndraSter> :P
[05:38:10] <specing> CompactFlash :)
[05:38:15] <OndraSter> SSD.
[05:38:18] <specing> yup ;)
[05:39:00] <megal0maniac> Runs Windows XP? Eh..
[05:39:15] <specing> ofcourse not
[05:39:24] <megal0maniac> But it can
[05:39:30] <specing> not really ;D
[05:47:00] <OndraSter_> damnit internet, stop crashing
[05:48:22] <specing> you need an alix with battery backup :)
[05:52:13] <OndraSter_> specing, I would much prefer stable wifi link
[05:52:14] <OndraSter_> ;)
[07:23:02] <tld> *everyone* needs an ALIX with battery backup. ;)
[07:30:12] <specing> tld: Ain't that right :D
[07:30:34] <tld> (I have two ALIXes, a battery, and some soldering to do… ;) )
[07:31:39] <specing> :)
[07:31:52] <specing> I have about 10 9V packs lying around
[07:42:12] <OndraSter> damnit internet
[07:42:29] <OndraSter> the second I got pissed enugh and connected my backup router and loaded its nvram back the regular internet started to work again
[07:45:28] <specing> lol
[07:45:46] <specing> Get an Alix and run my Gentoo on it :)
[07:46:11] <OndraSter> http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/how-about-no-bear-meme.jpg
[07:47:08] <specing> D:
[08:32:27] <OndraSter> megal0maniac_afk, so, what about that digikey
[08:32:31] <OndraSter> I will be ordering it on monday or tuesday
[08:32:58] <OndraSter> or anybody else
[08:33:01] <OndraSter> I am now above $200
[08:33:04] <OndraSter> I went for more parts.. :)
[08:36:38] <MrTrick> I haven't written any AVR code for ages, anyone want to review a simple debouncing library?
https://gist.github.com/4105542
[08:37:47] <MrTrick> a) Can you figure out how it works? b) Does it work? c) Any suggestions?
[08:38:05] <OndraSter> hmm UPS or FedEx.. FedEx was here once, UPS not at all.
[08:38:11] <OndraSter> DHL, PPL, GLS, .. all were here
[08:38:15] <OndraSter> only UPS not yet :P
[08:44:41] <OndraSter> wow, somebody had a LOT of time
[08:44:43] <OndraSter> http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/337120_293570380748942_608505825_o.jpg
[08:44:45] <OndraSter> our faculty :D
[08:49:34] <specing> a lot?
[08:49:44] <specing> doesen't look that hard to make
[08:49:57] <specing> I could do it in sauerbraten in less than an hour
[08:50:06] <specing> with BETTER graphics
[08:50:14] <specing> and actual textures.
[09:03:34] <OndraSter> :D
[09:06:46] <specing> all with a game that was developed 5 years before that java crap
[09:07:08] <specing> AND YOU COULD ACTUALLY SHOOT EACHOTHER AFTER BUILDING IT
[09:20:15] <OndraSter> specing, actually
[09:20:20] <OndraSter> those minecraft "textures"
[09:20:24] <OndraSter> are VERY close to reality :D
[09:20:27] <OndraSter> of our faculty
[09:20:52] <OndraSter> http://tigr.ic.cz/obrazky/nova_budova.jpg
[09:20:53] <OndraSter> :D
[09:21:18] * yunta can't wait for next version of sauerbraten to go out
[09:21:21] <OndraSter> http://www.sedmstatecnych.cz/res/img/upload/110307_Nova_Budova/110307_Nova_Budova_3.jpg
[09:21:22] <OndraSter> and inside
[09:22:35] <specing> OndraSter: if it were round it'd look like PACMAN
[13:20:05] <Malinuss> so lets say I've made a CTC-interrupt-timer that makes the OC1A pin get high, on compare match. Would it be possible to make that pin go low right after it went high? So I just make a on/off signal?
[13:25:07] <darsie> what happens if I divide by zero on an avr with gcc?
[13:25:32] <Malinuss> darsie, it explodes
[13:25:43] <darsie> how many MT?
[13:26:13] <darsie> seriously, will it restart?
[13:26:29] <darsie> or just compute nonsense?
[13:26:30] <Malinuss> idk. but at least 10^20J
[13:27:38] <Tom_itx> try it and find out
[13:29:34] <Malinuss> okay another question: Would it be possible to activate a PWM signal for X time when a CTC timer gets compare?
[13:29:41] <Malinuss> *on CTC timer match
[13:31:13] <Amadiro> darsie, the 8-bit AVRs don't have an instruction to directly divide numbers, so it'd depend on how you'd implement it.
[13:31:25] <darsie> Amadiro: gcc
[13:31:29] <darsie> avr-gcc
[13:31:37] <Amadiro> darsie, then what does the C-standard say?
[13:31:41] <darsie> dunno
[13:32:07] <Amadiro> take a wild guess
[13:32:23] <darsie> quit? undefined?
[13:33:15] <darsie> undefined probably, and quit for linux programs.
[13:33:33] <Amadiro> darsie, for floats, it should return a NaN value
[13:33:45] <Amadiro> for ints -- yes, something like that
[13:33:51] <darsie> its int
[13:34:21] <Amadiro> then check out what avr-gcc does in that case
[13:34:31] <Amadiro> or look at the code avr-gcc emits for such a case
[13:34:35] <darsie> Maybe I'll better avoid it ...
[13:34:47] <darsie> just adds some code ...
[13:40:22] <darsie> or rather delays the output another second.
[13:40:41] <Amadiro> what?
[13:41:05] <Amadiro> the C standard does indeed leave behaviour undefined for int div by zero, so it's really up to gcc what to do here
[13:47:51] <daniel____> hi guys! I have an atmega8 chip and I'd like to upload a bootloader (
http://www.dl5neg.de/bootloader/bootloader.html). However, my chip seems to start from 0x00 even I check bootrst flag. :( what could be the reason?
[13:49:30] <Tom_itx> is the code compiled to start at the boot address?
[15:08:48] <jadew> hey, do you guys think it's worth it to get a brand multimeter as a hobbyist?
[15:09:33] <jadew> I'm eyeballing an agilent with 11000 counts and 0.09% accuracy
[15:11:11] <Tom_itx> i got a fluke but i also have a cheapo
[15:11:21] <Tom_itx> it's up to you as to how you will use it
[15:11:22] <jadew> I currently have a cheapo
[15:11:49] <jadew> well, I figured I need that extra resolution when building my power supplies
[15:12:08] <Tom_itx> for avr etc all you're gonna be measuring are logic levels unless you're doing analog
[15:12:41] <Tom_itx> get a scope instead
[15:12:42] <jadew> I tend to do analog as well
[15:12:52] <Tom_itx> then you can see noise
[15:12:56] <jadew> still 200 eur + for a multimeter seems a bit of a stretch
[15:13:47] <darsie> Maybe you want to measure LC or so.
[15:13:49] <Tom_itx> unless you just have an itch, i'd put it on something else
[15:14:09] <Tom_itx> or have a specific reason for needing it
[15:14:41] * yunta_ bought fluke 289, awesome but not worth it, scope would be more useful
[15:14:42] <jadew> my main reason is that I would like to be able to callibrate my power supply in the upper voltages, like 5v or 10v to the millivolt
[15:15:01] <jadew> something I can't do with my current one, since it switches to 10mV resolution after 4V
[15:15:51] <jadew> yunta_, already got a scope
[15:16:16] <darsie> You could ask in ##electronics, if it's not about avrs.
[15:16:35] <Tom_itx> make sure it comes with a certificate of calibration then
[15:16:43] <jadew> Tom_itx, it does
[15:16:49] <Tom_itx> go for it
[15:16:55] <Tom_itx> i think you should send me one too
[15:16:57] <Tom_itx> :)
[15:17:00] <jadew> hehe
[15:17:20] <Tom_itx> i've got a scope, la and a handfull of meters as well
[15:17:29] <Tom_itx> seldom use the scope
[15:17:38] <Tom_itx> use the fluke all the time
[15:17:51] <jadew> yeah, I think I'll use this one a lot as well
[15:17:57] <Tom_itx> use the la when i can't wrap my head around it
[15:18:13] <Tom_itx> the fluke is pretty indestructable
[15:21:21] <jadew> alright, it's in my cart
[15:21:37] <jadew> this is what I'm getting:
http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-1765032-pn-U1241B/handheld-digital-multimeter-4-digit
[15:46:09] <darsie> If I set a timer and a compare register to 0, will that cause an interrupt or only when the timer gets the next time?
[15:46:32] <darsie> looks like it should happen right away.
[15:47:14] <darsie> even if the timer is not running.
[15:47:45] <darsie> timer0 on atmega168 ...
[15:48:22] <darsie> 1/8 prescaler
[15:50:51] <darsie> will keeping the prescaler resetted with GTCCR=(1<<TSM)|(1<<PSRSYNC); affect the other timer which is clocked by the T1 pin? Doesn't look like it.
[15:51:59] <darsie> In the schematic the T1 pin bypasses the prescaler.
[15:57:30] <Tom_itx> using pin change interrupts which affect the whole port, can you still have outputs and drive them high or low without affecting the interrupt?
[15:57:54] <Tom_itx> or does the interrupt fire whether it's input or output?
[15:59:58] <darsie> Observe that, if enabled, the interrupts will trigger even if the INT0 and INT1 or PCINT23..0 pins are configured as outputs. This feature provides a way of generating a software interrupt.
[16:00:29] <Tom_itx> INT0 INT1 are a different interrupt
[16:00:45] <darsie> yes
[16:01:08] <Tom_itx> i'm more interested in the behavior of the pin change interrupts
[16:01:09] <darsie> PCINT23..0 is what you asked about.
[16:01:15] <Tom_itx> yes
[16:04:08] <Tom_itx> ok, i'll mask the input in the interrupt then
[16:04:25] <Tom_itx> should still work ok
[16:06:39] <darsie> keeping the timer0/1 prescaler in reset halts timer1 if it's clocked by the T1 pin :(.
[16:33:23] <MrTrick> If more than one library are interested in the same interrupt, for non-clashing reasons (eg one listening for PCINT22 and one listening for PCINT23) is there some way for them to cooperate?
[16:33:55] <MrTrick> (or is it better practice to keep all the ISR(...) calls in the main file?)
[16:34:36] <OndraSter_> library?
[16:40:08] <MrTrick> as in, independent modules of code in the same project, that I want to keep separated from each other.
[16:40:36] <MrTrick> There might be other examples, but the most likely place where interrupt vectors might need to be shared is with the PCINTx interrupts.
[16:57:54] <OndraSter_> well PCINT vectors are nasty :)
[17:03:46] <MrTrick> PIC12 and PIC16s only have ONE interrupt vector. The handler needs to check flags. So no, not that nasty.
[17:07:08] <OndraSter_> MrTrick, don't compare PIC and AVR
[17:07:10] <OndraSter_> PIC is nothing :)
[17:07:26] <Malinuss> Since I come here sometimes to ask stupid question. I just wanna say: yay I've made a avr-am-transmitter that can send tunes, in a way I haven't seen anyone else do it ;D
[17:07:32] <OndraSter_> :)
[17:07:35] <OndraSter_> nice
[17:08:29] <Malinuss> since you are all so egear to hear about it:
[17:08:39] <Malinuss> AVR generates a 1/0 signal from one of the pins at 800khz using a CTC-intterupt-timer. that goes to the collector. then I generate a "tone" using the PWM, and connect that to the base of the transistor. and antenna out of the emitter
[17:08:49] <MrTrick> OndraSter_: Don't worry. I'm an ex-PIC programmer.
[17:09:10] <OndraSter_> :D
[17:10:41] <Malinuss> and yes. I am proud of myself
[17:11:08] <OndraSter_> nice Malinuss
[17:11:08] <Malinuss> you migh now applaus
[17:11:21] * OndraSter_ claps his hands
[17:12:38] <Malinuss> yay!
[17:13:57] <yunta_> Malinuss: maybe you could now make a receiver for such signal?
[17:14:15] <yunta_> you'd get interesting ic-ic close range wireless communication
[17:14:58] <yunta_> then you could try to get rid of transistor, and generally check what's the minimum number of components for wireless communication
[17:15:03] <yunta_> between avrs
[17:15:27] <Malinuss> yunta_, close range? Who is saying I won't amplify this + antenna, to make it reach the outer space?
[17:15:35] <Malinuss> on a serious note - pretty cool idea
[17:15:50] <yunta_> I'm suggesting that because I'm interested in minimal solution :)
[17:15:59] <yunta_> not moon-vaporizer :)
[17:16:41] <Malinuss> yunta_, so minimal solution would be avr-resistor-transistor, as the transmitter. and a avr as receiver. would propably work with no antenna for ~10cm
[17:17:33] <Malinuss> that pretty minimalistic. I think ;D
[17:17:36] <yunta_> no antenna, but how would you feed input pin? opamp? transistor?
[17:17:41] <yunta_> just a coil?
[17:17:49] <yunta_> some diode maybe?
[17:18:05] <Malinuss> true. Haven't thought about the receiver too much. haha
[17:18:47] <yunta_> I've always wanted to make such an experiment, but constantly get side-tracked by some commercial shit...
[17:19:12] <Malinuss> so for a receiver I would just need a LC circuit. I think
[17:20:02] <OndraSter_> accident
[17:20:45] <Malinuss> yunta_, this will be my project when I get my ATtiny85 ;D
[17:25:54] <yunta_> Malinuss: I wasted 6e on one of those.... should have just bought some small xmega
[17:26:10] <OndraSter_> :P
[17:26:21] <OndraSter_> dem xmegas
[17:26:22] <OndraSter_> sexy
[17:26:31] <Malinuss> yunta_, :(. Well I only payed very little because ebay+china
[17:27:46] <OndraSter_> hmm I hope that Digikey won't have issues shipping me those xmegas
[17:27:48] <OndraSter_> mouser didn't
[17:27:53] <OndraSter_> I just signed some paper stating that I am not a terrorist
[17:28:03] <OndraSter_> and that I won't be shipping it to terrorist countries
[17:28:29] <Malinuss> what?
[17:28:34] <yunta_> OndraSter_: the only problem I have with xmegas is they burn at 12V :D
[17:28:40] <OndraSter_> :D
[17:28:46] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, they have got crypto
[17:28:49] <OndraSter_> hardware AES + DES
[17:28:51] <Malinuss> oh shit
[17:28:54] <OndraSter_> and US has got some laws
[17:28:57] <Malinuss> what
[17:28:58] <OndraSter_> oooold laws
[17:29:04] <yunta_> hehe, went through that too :)
[17:29:08] <OndraSter_> that "forbid" exporting crypto equipped chips to some countries
[17:29:08] <Malinuss> so xmegas are cheaper then ATtiny, but same specs?
[17:29:20] <OndraSter_> xmegas are cheaper than megas but better specs
[17:29:28] <Malinuss> yeah, think about the terrorism you could do vs superman
[17:29:34] <OndraSter_> exactly
[17:29:36] <Malinuss> what about ATtiny?
[17:29:38] <OndraSter_> SO MUCH TERRORISM USING AES MODULE
[17:29:42] <OndraSter_> Attiny has no "x" version
[17:29:43] <Malinuss> compared to those two familes?
[17:29:54] <OndraSter_> attiny is its own family
[17:30:05] <OndraSter_> (just as tiny4/5/9/10)
[17:30:33] <Malinuss> so you can't compare across families?
[17:30:40] <OndraSter_> well you can
[17:30:48] <OndraSter_> but xmega does not exist in 8 pin packages
[17:30:55] <OndraSter_> it starts at 44 pins
[17:31:02] <yunta_> Malinuss: in short, if you switch to xmega from tiny you'll get: slightly bigger package, 2msps adc, dac, USB(!!), crypto, ...
[17:31:24] <OndraSter_> I prefer to mention DMA over crypto :)
[17:31:34] <yunta_> oh, dma, right
[17:31:45] <yunta_> I don't use dma, but use crypto :) so I'm biased
[17:31:49] <OndraSter_> "slightly" is understatement - if you compare tiny85 to xmegaa4u then it is quite a difference
[17:32:30] <yunta_> well, volume is not that different, but area is :(
[17:33:22] <Malinuss> WHAT IS CRYPTO haha?
[17:33:47] <Malinuss> okay yeah the ATtiny are just very simple with few I/0s
[17:33:49] <OndraSter_> AES + DES
[17:33:53] <OndraSter_> ATTiny has few peripherals
[17:33:56] <OndraSter_> xmega has bazilion peripherals
[17:34:10] <jadew> the price of this order makes me sad :/
[17:34:12] <Malinuss> so a attiny only got like some interrupt clocks etc.
[17:34:14] <Amadiro> xmegas run on 3V3, though, while the tinys run on 5V
[17:34:23] <Amadiro> (if you were looking to replace it in an existing setup)
[17:34:32] <OndraSter_> jadew, I am doing >$200 order
[17:34:37] <OndraSter_> and I will have to pay 20% tax.
[17:34:43] <OndraSter_> 20% + 5% maybe even
[17:34:56] <jadew> yeah, I have 24% tax on a 300 eur order
[17:35:02] <OndraSter_> eh
[17:35:06] <OndraSter_> where from?
[17:35:06] <jadew> I had to give up the agilent meter for a crappier one
[17:35:10] <jadew> tme.eu
[17:35:38] <jadew> it's hard to push the finish order button
[17:35:43] <yunta_> tme sells without vat if you have european vat number
[17:35:54] <jadew> wait, what?
[17:36:10] <OndraSter_> to get VAT number you have to be registered company or something like that
[17:36:15] <Malinuss> 3.3V, huh? that must be annoying as shit
[17:36:16] <yunta_> yes
[17:36:17] <OndraSter_> (I don't know how you call it, I hate this stuff)
[17:36:19] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, why?
[17:36:23] <OndraSter_> everything now runs at 3.3v
[17:36:37] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, it does? for me it seems everything runs at 5v..?
[17:36:44] <OndraSter_> heh
[17:36:47] <Malinuss> oh so 3.3 is "the new thing" :P?
[17:36:51] <OndraSter_> yes
[17:36:53] <OndraSter_> but not for long
[17:36:58] <jadew> kinda is, I'm still on 5v tho
[17:37:01] <OndraSter_> 2.5V is knocking on the door in parallel with 1.8V
[17:37:07] <Malinuss> lol
[17:37:14] <OndraSter_> hell xmega can run on full 32MHz from 2.7V
[17:37:15] <OndraSter_> officially
[17:37:22] <OndraSter_> I ran it at 80MHz from 3.3V :D
[17:37:23] <yunta_> OndraSter_: you may want to get interested, you seem to have talent for producing things people want. would be cool to make it a real business.
[17:37:25] <Malinuss> 5 years from now 0.25V
[17:37:38] <OndraSter_> Malinuss, unless we drop transistors then no
[17:37:41] <OndraSter_> yunta_, I will
[17:37:46] <OndraSter_> after I sell more than 2 boards :D
[17:37:56] <OndraSter_> I will become legal.
[17:38:07] <yunta_> btw, what's the price for your boards?
[17:38:08] <OndraSter_> but all the taxes 'n shit just discourages me
[17:38:26] <OndraSter_> 13€ for the "Mini" one (Arduino ones will be +4EUR)
[17:38:33] <OndraSter_> or thereabouts
[17:38:38] <OndraSter_> coco will be 20 (+4)
[17:38:46] <OndraSter_> ultra will be 30 (already in arduino form)
[17:38:51] <OndraSter_> not sure atm
[17:38:59] <Malinuss> OndraSter_, what are you selling?
[17:38:59] <OndraSter_> the chips are a bit cheaper, but I need more headers :)
[17:39:04] <OndraSter_> http://myxboard.net
[17:39:11] <yunta_> OndraSter_: my company costs 2700e / year just for accounting and obligatory insurances :(
[17:39:17] <OndraSter_> aye
[17:39:20] <OndraSter_> all this sucks
[17:39:23] <OndraSter_> also RoHS.
[17:39:24] <OndraSter_> fuck EU
[17:39:26] <OndraSter_> fuck ROHS
[17:39:57] <yunta_> so, 13e for a pcb with no components?
[17:39:58] <OndraSter_> I refuse to support our politicians and their stealing from my hard worked money
[17:40:04] <OndraSter_> 13e for PCB with all components
[17:40:12] <OndraSter_> tested and preflashed with bootloader :P
[17:40:19] <yunta_> will you pay for proper CE certification? or make you own?
[17:40:24] <OndraSter_> what CE?
[17:40:25] <OndraSter_> :P
[17:40:37] <yunta_> certs needed to sell any product in eu
[17:40:44] <OndraSter_> oh
[17:40:45] <jadew> what's RoHS?
[17:40:47] <OndraSter_> that
[17:40:52] <OndraSter_> well
[17:40:55] <OndraSter_> <OndraSter_> fuck EU
[17:40:59] <OndraSter_> it is just silly.
[17:41:07] <OndraSter_> why would I need CE when I am selling DEV kits
[17:41:12] <OndraSter_> which are not working units on their own
[17:41:24] <yunta_> in theory you don't have to
[17:41:31] <yunta_> but ..... you know how it was with raspi
[17:41:36] <OndraSter_> I do not
[17:41:40] <OndraSter_> I am not interested in RPI
[17:42:04] <yunta_> the case is, they also followed your logic, but distributors refused to sell raspi without CE
[17:42:20] <OndraSter_> huh
[17:42:28] <OndraSter_> I am the distributor right now..
[17:42:31] <OndraSter_> "distributor"
[17:42:33] <OndraSter_> black market ftw
[17:42:36] <yunta_> :D
[17:43:06] <jadew> you can say they're comming from china, you're just forwarding :P
[17:43:11] <jadew> for a friend
[17:43:19] <OndraSter_> :D
[17:44:05] <OndraSter_> I prefer capitalism over socialism (I hope I got those terms right, I suck at this stuff), with low-to-none taxes and low-to-none laws about electronics etc - Darwin prize anyone?
[17:44:25] <yunta_> OndraSter_: +1
[17:44:41] <OndraSter_> here you tax the taxes
[17:44:46] <OndraSter_> while taxing the taxes
[17:45:06] <OndraSter_> so in the end the govt gets here about 60% of all the money
[17:45:11] <yunta_> you're lucky to live in CR :)
[17:45:14] <OndraSter_> yet we are still in more and more in debt
[17:45:15] <OndraSter_> lucky?
[17:45:20] <OndraSter_> I am moving away ASAP
[17:45:20] <yunta_> relatively
[17:45:27] <yunta_> don't move to finland
[17:45:31] <OndraSter_> don't worry
[17:45:33] <OndraSter_> too cold there :D
[17:45:38] <OndraSter_> I am thinking UK
[17:45:39] <OndraSter_> or US
[17:45:44] <OndraSter_> or NZ
[17:45:48] <OndraSter_> but NZ is silly with some laws
[17:45:55] <yunta_> yep
[17:46:01] <OndraSter_> just as australia
[17:46:06] <yunta_> US is going eu way, but they are still behind in socialism
[17:46:12] <yunta_> I'd go US
[17:46:18] <OndraSter_> plus... crocs 'n spiders 'n other insects
[17:46:28] <OndraSter_> no way I am stepping into australia
[17:46:48] <yunta_> australia, I'd be afraid to bring my porn collection there....
[17:46:59] <OndraSter_> lol why?
[17:47:14] <yunta_> A-cup is illegal there. classified as child porn.
[17:47:24] <OndraSter_> A-cup as boobs size?!
[17:47:27] <yunta_> yes
[17:47:30] <OndraSter_> holy crap
[17:47:44] <OndraSter_> so "barelylegal" and "clubseventeen"... nope
[17:47:47] <OndraSter_> ;D
[17:47:53] <jadew> hehe, yeah, they passed that law a few years ago
[17:47:55] <jadew> funny stuff
[17:47:59] <OndraSter_> lmao
[17:48:22] <yunta_> even "flatgrannies" wouldn't do, if such page exists
[17:48:48] <jadew> it's like saying that if you have A cup tits you're not a woman
[17:48:51] <OndraSter_> (clubseventeen exists and is maybe even czech - I remember them talking in CZE.. and I think I even know where they made one movie - I was on that place :D)
[17:48:52] <OndraSter_> lol
[17:49:05] <OndraSter_> they have got some ridiculous laws about changing lightbulbs in the australia as well..?
[17:49:11] <OndraSter_> or home electronics stuff
[17:50:04] <jadew> man.. this multimeter is so not what I had in mind...
[17:50:15] <jadew> any thoughts on the ex330?
[17:51:16] <jadew> wonder if I should just remove it from the list and get the agilent one later
[17:52:26] <OndraSter_> Confession bear: I still use 12 years old UNI-T
[17:52:31] <OndraSter_> maybe even older
[17:52:42] <OndraSter_> I took it apart to see how it looks - completely through hole
[17:52:58] <OndraSter_> but hey, it works (except mA range, I need a new fuse for that)
[17:53:35] <jadew> I was using a $5 one when I needed two meters, but now that one fails to measure different stuff so I figured I should get a new, decent meter
[17:54:13] <OndraSter_> I haven't so far needed anything extra
[17:54:20] <OndraSter_> I am fine with "it is around 3.3V"
[17:54:30] <OndraSter_> aka anything from 2.95 - 3.35V
[17:54:33] <OndraSter_> err
[17:54:36] <OndraSter_> 3.25
[17:54:51] <jadew> remember how I said I'd rather build my own lab power supply than buy one?
[17:55:01] <jadew> well.. they need to be calibrated :)
[17:55:05] <OndraSter_> :D
[17:55:07] <yunta_> OndraSter_: btw. did you try debugging your usb problem on pc side? or setting toggle to 1 each time you set setup ?
[17:55:18] <OndraSter_> setting toggle = bad idea :)
[17:55:32] <OndraSter_> tried on PC, failed miserably, nothing managed to work
[17:55:35] <yunta_> OndraSter_: if pc always sends data1 then you'll get it to work that way :)
[17:55:41] <OndraSter_> I ditched it for now thinking "wrong USB cable"
[17:55:48] <yunta_> hm
[17:55:49] <OndraSter_> will test with new board
[17:55:54] <OndraSter_> and actually USB connector
[17:56:00] <OndraSter_> rather old and crappy USB wire I had here
[17:56:01] <yunta_> ok, looking forward to it
[17:56:07] <OndraSter_> my friend is building his RCL meter
[17:56:14] <OndraSter_> 24bit ADC I think
[17:56:23] <OndraSter_> with infrared wireless transmission to the base unit :)
[17:56:36] <OndraSter_> and MSP430 s
[17:56:58] <jadew> nice
[17:57:06] <jadew> that adc must cost a small fortune
[17:57:15] <OndraSter_> free sample from TI ;D
[17:57:21] <jadew> heh, neat
[17:57:31] <OndraSter_> TI has the best sampling probably...
[17:57:48] <OndraSter_> ST has very bad
[17:57:51] <OndraSter_> they refused my project
[17:57:54] <OndraSter_> fuck them
[17:57:58] <OndraSter_> I won't use their parts.
[17:58:09] <specing> Who refused your project?
[17:58:10] <OndraSter_> Atmel gave me samples, Maxim (Dallas?)
[17:58:13] <OndraSter_> ST
[17:58:37] <OndraSter_> it was $4 chip only... TI sampled me five $10 chips without single questions, delivered in 36 hours to the other side of the world
[17:58:47] <OndraSter_> single question*
[17:59:00] <specing> I have been waiting for my stellarises for two months now
[17:59:01] <Horologium> TI, maxim/dallas, and microchip have been the best at samples in my experience.
[17:59:12] <OndraSter_> I haven't sampled anything from microchip
[17:59:14] <Horologium> atmel is a bit iffy, about 50/50 if I get them.
[17:59:30] <Horologium> got some nice 1Mbit serial srams from microchip recently.
[17:59:31] <OndraSter_> I sampled once from Atmel since they changed their sample-supplier
[17:59:36] <OndraSter_> :)
[17:59:59] <Horologium> they have non-volatile version of the 1Mbit serial sram too...got some of those as well.
[18:00:14] <Horologium> the plain ones are 1/2/4 bit capable too.
[18:00:16] <OndraSter_> hmm should I go tomorrow to school or not..
[18:00:23] <Horologium> and the NV versions are 1/2 bit capable.
[18:00:26] <specing> OndraSter_: what do you have?
[18:00:30] <Horologium> yes, go to school, learn.
[18:00:39] <specing> teach them OndraSter_!
[18:00:47] <specing> dem n00bs
[18:00:49] <OndraSter_> electronics, no test... I already have got enough points to pass the semester from this class and yet there is still 1 more test left
[18:00:50] <OndraSter_> haha
[18:00:56] <OndraSter_> and then english on which I do not go anyway
[18:01:04] <OndraSter_> test will happen next week from both
[18:01:11] <OndraSter_> I think
[18:01:19] <OndraSter_> to which*
[18:01:22] <OndraSter_> will be happening*
[18:01:25] <OndraSter_> damn late hours
[18:02:16] <OndraSter_> and then in the evening two lectures - math logic and programming - I have been to both ONCE...
[18:02:16] <OndraSter_> :D
[18:03:41] <Horologium> why bother having classes if you aren't going to go?
[18:04:06] <OndraSter_> because these aren't required you to be on, they are just talk
[18:04:10] <OndraSter_> I don't know how you call it :)
[18:04:15] <OndraSter_> you have got talk + prax
[18:04:17] <OndraSter_> lectures
[18:04:46] <OndraSter_> I didn't choose them, they are required for the first semester..
[18:05:23] <OndraSter_> I should be visiting math classes, even the talk only ones... but it is ridiculously early in the morning on fridays... screw that :D
[18:05:40] <OndraSter_> I was there once... I don't remember anything because I slept it through
[18:05:43] <specing> I have spent only 3 hours of my life being on java lectures
[18:05:47] <OndraSter_> :D
[18:05:55] <specing> all of those were because of unrelated reasons
[18:05:57] <OndraSter_> I will not spend single minute there on uni
[18:06:02] <OndraSter_> Java is optional
[18:06:05] <OndraSter_> and nobody likes Java
[18:06:08] <specing> :)
[18:06:20] <OndraSter_> although.. if I were to choose some hardcore C(++) vs Java..
[18:06:32] <OndraSter_> well, for C++ you have got visual studio :D
[18:06:42] <OndraSter_> but using VS to write linux kernel modules... not sure
[18:06:53] <specing> :)
[18:06:54] <OndraSter_> your own file system drivers..
[18:07:06] <OndraSter_> (that was originally in 2nd semester, but they moved it because of hard math :D)
[18:07:22] <specing> I have the "Linux Kernel Development" book
[18:07:30] <specing> also Tanenbaum's Minix book
[18:07:37] <OndraSter_> copy of /blabla/Documentation/CodingStyle? :D
[18:07:47] <specing> made my own FUSE filesystem once
[18:08:07] <specing> to solve the problem of broken software at the operating system layer
[18:08:13] <OndraSter_> :D
[18:08:34] <specing> e.g write() that returns 0 after thrashing the data
[18:08:37] * yunta_ was java developer for 6months - ow
[18:10:07] <specing> yunta_ = new Bum (new JavaDev (new LostPerson( new Person (new Mamal (new LandCreature(new Creature (new Thing (new Nothing("oops")))))))));
[18:10:25] <specing> yeah...
[18:10:36] <specing> Anyway, where were we?
[18:10:58] <yunta_> well, in real world you'd be using DefaultBumCreationFactory.createDefaultBum, or something :D
[18:11:16] <specing> Oh my
[18:11:29] <OndraSter_> meh enjoy
[18:11:30] <OndraSter_> I am off
[18:11:31] <OndraSter_> gn
[18:13:12] <yunta_> gn OndraSter_
[18:44:28] <TechIsCool> So I am working on my first pcb with a avr on it and have a few questions. I can't seem to find a location showing what is required for operation of a atxmega32a4u
[18:45:21] <yunta_> power supply
[18:45:47] <TechIsCool> I would assume a 3.3v regulator would be a requirement
[18:46:07] <TechIsCool> anything else except bringing out the 2 program pins
[18:46:22] <yunta_> pdi with dragon?
[18:46:34] <TechIsCool> yunta_: correct
[18:47:09] <yunta_> dragon will need your 3.3v, gnd, pdi, rst
[18:47:49] <TechIsCool> I think I am going to bring it out into an isp header basically for that.
[18:48:43] <yunta_> http://www.myxboard.net/boards.html
[18:49:01] <yunta_> maybe just buy one of those ?
[18:49:27] <TechIsCool> yunta_: nice I might
[18:51:28] <TechIsCool> why so many capacitors?
[18:52:40] <yunta_> no idea, ask OndraSter_
[18:52:56] <Tom_itx> filtering
[18:53:13] <yunta_> but probably: 2 for regulator, 2 more for power filtering close to aref
[18:53:19] <yunta_> 1 for usb shield filter
[18:53:38] <Tom_itx> and across vcc - gnd
[18:53:48] <yunta_> non of those absolutely necessary
[18:53:54] <yunta_> but you know, things work better with caps :)
[18:53:59] <TechIsCool> its just good practice
[18:54:02] <yunta_> s/non/none/
[18:56:40] <yunta_> ok, I'm out, gn people
[18:56:51] <TechIsCool> night yunta_
[19:44:18] <TechIsCool> when the atxmega32a4u pwm is used @ 32bits does the three outputs still work or is it something else anyone know?
[20:59:52] <TechIsCool> is there a spec sheet saying where and how to place the filter caps or is it just common knowledge?
[21:01:04] <Tom_itx> i'm sure there is but it's somewhat common knowledge
[21:01:22] <TechIsCool> alright Tom_itx I will google around and see if I can find it
[21:01:23] <Tom_itx> place .1uf caps as close to the power pin on a chip as practical
[21:01:29] <Tom_itx> one per power pin
[21:01:45] <TechIsCool> alright
[21:01:57] <Tom_itx> some chips require different values and some require as many as 3 different values per pin
[21:02:15] <Tom_itx> depending on lots of things including operating frequency etc
[21:02:44] <TechIsCool> that makes sense
[21:03:04] <Tom_itx> traces pick up noise
[21:03:19] <Tom_itx> you want to filter it out as close to the chip as possible
[21:03:29] <Tom_itx> aside from the psu caps
[21:05:22] <TechIsCool> Tom_itx: Sweet that give me an idea of what I need to do.
[21:06:09] <Tom_itx> .1uf ceramic seem to be a fairly acceptable value in general
[21:08:29] <TechIsCool> I assume the first time I build the pcb I most likeley won't get it a 100% I can hope but...
[21:09:00] <Tom_itx> let someone look it over here before you submit it
[21:09:07] <Tom_itx> or are you gonna make it yourself?
[21:10:02] <TechIsCool> oh I will I might make it myself but not sure still don't have all the parts picked out but from everyone I have talked to its easier to confirm design after you have parts in hand. This has been an idea I have been trying to get off the ground for about a year now.
[21:10:21] <eric_j> TechIsCool: it's not likely to be critical at the typical frequencies you use in an AVR circuit
[21:10:41] <TechIsCool> eric_j: the power caps?
[21:10:44] <eric_j> yeah
[21:10:49] <Tom_itx> yeah you wanna make sure all the parts fit the footprints
[21:11:30] <TechIsCool> I have been using eagle and have made things then find a different one and the time creating the part is semi wasted so no reason until I have all the parts.
[21:12:28] <TechIsCool> I am creating a 10w rgb led controller basically. But want something with a 16bit pwm not 8. The chip that I have been looking at I think does 32 aswell not sure if I would use it but could be really nice
